WEBVTT - John Allen Muhammad [7] 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:04.560 Welcome to Monster DZ Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio and 0:00:04.640 --> 0:00:08.400 Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:12.080 are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating 0:00:12.080 --> 0:00:15.160 in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.599 Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This episode contains stories of 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:23.200 domestic abuse. If you or someone you know maybe experiencing 0:00:23.239 --> 0:00:26.640 domestic abuse, you can call the Domestic Violence Hotline at 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.080 one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three, 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.440 or visit the website the hotline dot org. Listener discretion 0:00:34.760 --> 0:00:36.080 is advised. 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:45.200 When you meet someone for the first time, you always 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:47.920 put your best foot forward. You don't want that person 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:50.200 to know all of your flaws, and you don't want 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.599 them to think badly about you because you're really interested 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.279 in that person, and you hide it as long as 0:00:57.320 --> 0:01:03.040 you can. I am Mildred Muhammad. I'm an award winning 0:01:03.400 --> 0:01:08.800 global keynote speaker, and my former husband was John Ala Mohammad, 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:14.039 whom you all know to be the DC Sniper. Everybody 0:01:14.080 --> 0:01:18.800 loved John because he was jovial. He was that guy, 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:22.479 that guy of if you needed something, go to John. 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:27.440 But he was not one to show his emotions, so 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:32.040 in not showing his emotions, it was difficult for people 0:01:32.120 --> 0:01:36.360 to read him, to understand exactly what was going on 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.440 with him. I believe he was always that type of 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.720 person that blew up. He was just very good at 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:49.520 concealing it. I believe going to Saudie only intensify that 0:01:50.440 --> 0:01:54.880 to a whole different level. He received artists to go 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:58.320 to Desert Storm for the war, but he comes back 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:04.360 three months later because he received an injury. But then 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:12.760 other stories begin to come forward. He was accused of 0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:18.360 trying to kill other soldiers. John was a sergeant over 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.919 a unit. A soldier challenged him in front of others, 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:30.040 and he felt humiliated. That soldier that night was in 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:37.040 charge of the explosives. John went snuck into that area 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:43.360 and stole a grenade. He threw the grenade in the 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:51.480 tent and jumped into his sleeping bag. The grenade went off. 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:59.320 He was accused of trying to get back at that 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:04.160 soldier that challenged him in front of the other soldiers. 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:11.200 They put him in a dungeon. They hogtied him and 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.800 left him there. And when he comes back, it's not 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:16.520 the same person. 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:20.400 There is a ruthless person on the loose. 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.079 What unerves this community the most is the randomness of 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.960 the murders, ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.519 five people in one day and then went on the 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:33.480 rampage for the next month. 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:34.920 It is quite a mystery. 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.440 The police say they have never had a crime quite 0:03:37.640 --> 0:03:37.920 like this. 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.080 Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.360 to go right straight through our bulletproof vests. 0:03:46.520 --> 0:03:52.240 From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. This is monster DC Sniper. 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:59.880 On the morning of October twenty second, two thousand and two, 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.160 Leise found the names of their first real suspects in 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.640 the DC Sniper case. Authorities connected the snipers to a Montgomery, 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.800 Alabama liquor store shooting. At that crime scene, police found 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:15.960 a fingerprint. The FBI then matched the fingerprint to a 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.760 seventeen year old Jamaican boy named Lee Boyd Malvo. He'd 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.280 been arrested in Washington State in two thousand and one 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.720 on suspicions of illegal immigration. The arrest report also listed 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:34.719 another name, John Allen Muhammed. That name set off alarm 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.840 bells for police. Someone in Washington State had called in 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.240 a tip about a John Mohammed, saying he might be 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:47.040 involved in the DC sniper attacks. So now Lee Boyd 0:04:47.120 --> 0:04:52.080 Malvo and John Mohammad were prime suspects. Police quickly learned 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:55.280 all they could about the pair, and here's what they discovered. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.560 John Mohammad was born John Williams on New Year's Eve 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:05.600 nineteen sixty and grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. In 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:08.719 the fall of nineteen eighty three, when Williams was twenty two, 0:05:09.360 --> 0:05:13.120 he met a young woman named Mildred Green. Mildred was 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:17.480 twenty three, a next cheerleader and devout Baptist who lived 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:17.960 with her mom. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:24.200 I was walking to the store and my friend Valina 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:26.760 picked me up and she said, where are you going? Said, 0:05:26.760 --> 0:05:29.640 I'm going to the store for my mom. And so 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.240 we pulled up at the corner store. She went in 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:37.080 and she came out with these two guys. When upumas 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.760 John and he put his head through the driver's side 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:46.200 window and said, what is your name? I said? Mildred said, 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:49.120 I'm John. Would you like to go out tonight? I said, 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.200 I need to check my schedule. I didn't have a schedule. 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:54.719 I'm available at about seven. We said, okay, I'll be 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:58.320 about to pick you up. We went over to Southern University. 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:03.200 There was a couple area over by the river, Mississippi River, 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.360 and we were just talking and he says, so, are 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.520 you say any about us? Said nope. He said why not? Said, 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:10.520 I'm waiting for the right man to show up. He said, 0:06:10.520 --> 0:06:14.839 well he just did. Said okay, So he dropped me 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:17.560 off at home, and then the next day he called 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:22.240 and so we just started talking and hanging out. He 0:06:22.320 --> 0:06:24.600 was a welder, an excellent welder. 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.320 What were the qualities of the man that you found attractive? 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:34.279 Well, he had a beautiful smile, he was jovial, funny. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.359 He said what he meant, and he meant what he said, 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:38.880 and that's something that most men don't do. 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:42.440 Mildred had grown up without a father and had never 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:46.480 had a serious boyfriend. Most of her ideas about relationships 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:51.239 came from TV and movies. John was romantic and said 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:52.280 all the right things. 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:57.039 About six months in, my friend Elena came over and 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:58.480 she said, so, how are you and John? I said, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.320 are we good? She said, so? 0:07:00.360 --> 0:07:00.520 You know? 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.119 He married right? What? 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.120 It turns out that John was already married to a 0:07:07.160 --> 0:07:10.360 woman named Carol and they had a son named Lindburgh. 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:14.600 It was devastating for me to find out that he 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.800 was married. But I knew I had to stay away 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:20.600 from him. I said, okay, I'm got to break that off. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:26.800 So finally I did. But then he came back and said, 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.120 I have some terrible news to tell you. I say, 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:32.120 what's that? He said, I can't read, and he couldn't. 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:36.840 All he could do was write his name. So he 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.920 had adapted as an adult to not being able to read. 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:44.200 His whole family didn't know he couldn't read. Nobody knew 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:44.840 he couldn't read. 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:49.559 Mildred felt that John, who in many ways was closed off, 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.720 was finally opening up to her. She cared deeply about 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.200 John and wanted to help him. 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:58.240 He said, well, I want to go back in the military. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.160 So I taught him how to read enough to pass 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:07.160 the test to be reinstated in active duty. And after 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:08.720 he passed the test, I say we're done. 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:14.720 John enlisted in the Army and was stationed in Fort Lewis, Washington. There, 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.760 John qualified as an expert with an M sixteen, the 0:08:18.920 --> 0:08:23.040 army's standard infantry rifle. That rating is the Army's highest 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.960 of three levels of marksmanship for a typical soldier. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:30.200 So he left went to Fort Lewis, and he wrote 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:32.800 me a letter and said, hey, I can't do this 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.040 without you. I'll do whatever it takes for you to. 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:36.400 Be with me. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:41.480 Just come, and he sent an airline ticket and I left. 0:08:42.040 --> 0:08:42.840 You love this man. 0:08:43.520 --> 0:08:46.800 I did, absolutely, with all of my heart. I did, 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:51.720 and I wanted to build a life with him. And 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.559 about three months later he got a divorce and then 0:08:54.600 --> 0:09:00.120 we got married. It was a sunny day, was and 0:09:00.160 --> 0:09:04.800 Grace Chapel ahead on a white dress. He was in 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:09.320 dress blues ceremonial uniform for military. 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:16.720 Two years later, in January nineteen ninety, John and Mildred 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.720 had their first child, John Junior. A little less than 0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:24.040 a year after that, John was deployed to Saudi Arabia 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:28.040 for Operation Desert Storm. He worked as a combat engineer 0:09:28.080 --> 0:09:31.440 and metal worker, and it was here that Williams was 0:09:31.440 --> 0:09:34.560 said to have thrown a grenade into the tent of 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:35.520 a fellow soldier. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:42.280 So they came and brought in investigators. The commander had 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.400 us to come to his office. 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.560 John had his own side of the story. According to 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.600 that account, John had previously approached an officer with complaints 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.839 of racism from white soldiers. John says those soldiers felt 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.920 the need to retaliate, so they created a phony grin 0:10:00.080 --> 0:10:03.160 a story to blame on him, and then his punishment. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.199 He was hogtied and humiliated. 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:15.000 And the commander said to John, we investigated your allegations. However, 0:10:15.600 --> 0:10:20.440 when the investigators came to ask you questions, you didn't 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:25.720 answer them. I didn't know that, he said, so, Sarga Williams, 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:30.800 why didn't you answer those questions? And John looked at 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:37.679 him and said, permission to be released. Commander said, permission granted, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.319 and we got up and we left. 0:10:41.480 --> 0:10:44.880 After the commander released him from the meeting, John stopped 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.400 talking about the incident. The military didn't keep any records 0:10:48.440 --> 0:10:50.760 of the event, so all they had to go on 0:10:50.960 --> 0:10:55.040 were conflicting stories. No official charges were ever made in 0:10:55.080 --> 0:11:00.520 the case. At first, Mildred believed John's side of the story. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:05.160 She trusted her husband, but years later, after she saw 0:11:05.200 --> 0:11:08.160 what John was capable of, she came to believe that 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:11.760 the other story was true, that John had in fact 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.679 tried to get back at a fellow soldier using a 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:19.240 thermite grenade. The issue fizzled out, and John continued to 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.400 serve in the military, but he was growing disillusioned. 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:22.720 With it. 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:27.679 After Desert Storm, Mildred says John was a changed man. 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.400 He was no longer jovial. He didn't want to have 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.360 those long conversations anymore. He was just cutting dry. How 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:39.559 you doing fine, We'll job to nothing. All soldiers had 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:42.440 come back from a war zone, they always go to 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:46.760 a hospital first to just do a whole physical, just 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.280 before they released them back to their base. All I 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.319 learned was that he was diagnosed with PTSD. 0:11:53.600 --> 0:11:57.719 At that point in time, post traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:03.240 was not a commonly understood. PTSD can occur after a 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:07.320 traumatic experience. It can cause flashbacks of the trauma and 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.480 create a heightened sense of fear, and it can make 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.240 people feel depressed or detached. Many who experience PTSD also 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:20.400 become irritable, aggressive, or distrustful of others, which can lead 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:21.320 to social isolation. 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.600 The only person he opened up to was our son, 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:27.880 so when he came home, he just went immediately to 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:31.960 play with him. Most of his interactions was with our son. 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:37.000 But then his behavior became to be obsessive. So I 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.960 would buy dishes, silverware. He'd break all the dishes except 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:46.360 for three three plates, three saucers, three bowls. Well, I 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:48.600 finally asked them, so why do you keep breaking all 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.360 this stuff? Because this does not make sense. He said, well, 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:53.000 we don't need anybody else over here. It's just the 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:55.320 three of us. I said, but what if we have 0:12:55.400 --> 0:12:57.280 a party or a company. We're not having a party. 0:12:57.320 --> 0:12:59.120 We're not having company. 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.000 Mildred says John's erratic moods took a huge mental toll 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:06.320 on her. She was already raising a child and working 0:13:06.360 --> 0:13:09.760 full time, and she was trying to cope with John's 0:13:09.800 --> 0:13:14.560 strange behavior, but it was becoming harder and harder. Still. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:19.160 He had never turned his anger towards her directly until 0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.079 one afternoon when they went to a nearby park. 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:27.520 And this park you could rent a boat. I said, 0:13:27.559 --> 0:13:30.560 you know, I want to get a boat so little 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.080 John can ride in the boat and see what that's like. 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:38.440 He turned to me with the coldest look in his eyes, 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:42.880 was just empty, and he said, we're not going to 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:49.600 do that. Scared me and I just shut down. It 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.960 was painful the way he looked at me and talked 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.400 to me. He never done that before ever. So we 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:00.120 went home and I went straight to the bathroom and 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.160 locked the door, and I stayed in there all day. 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.079 I didn't get anything to eat, I didn't get anything 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:11.080 to drink. I was so hurt. I was just devastated. 0:14:11.160 --> 0:14:15.360 I was hurt. I could hear little John at the 0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:19.240 door crying, Mommy, please come out, Mommy, please come out. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.200 I drew a bath, I sat in the tub, and 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.800 so when I finally did come out, he was sleeping 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:28.160 on the floor right by the door, and he woke 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:30.040 up and looked at me. He said, Mommy, you're okay, 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:34.000 saying Mommy's fine. Now, said Mommy scared me. I say, 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.480 don't ever be scared of me. I just needed some 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:37.520 time to myself. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.880 How did John respond? How did you respond to John? 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:45.560 He waited until that morning and came and apologized to 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.320 me and said he didn't know what came over him, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:50.640 and he was really sorry. I said, don't you ever 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:53.800 ever talk to me like that again. 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.560 The relationship normalized for a while. It was now early 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:18.640 in nineteen ninety three, and the family was back in Tacoma, Washington. 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.200 They'd had a daughter, Selena, and Mildred was pregnant with 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:27.640 their second daughter, Taliba. On the surface, things look calm, 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:32.200 but John was growing more disillusioned with the military, and 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.320 he'd gotten into trouble again. 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:40.240 John was brought up on charges for threatening to kill 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:45.360 his first sergeant. He told the first sergeant, I'll kill you, 0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:49.920 your wife, and everybody in their line. He had an attorney, 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.720 military attorney. We went in to talk to her about 0:15:53.760 --> 0:15:57.000 the case, and as they're talking, she looks at me 0:15:57.080 --> 0:15:59.080 and she says, you don't know anything that's going on, 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:01.720 do you? I say no, am I done? And so 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:05.320 she asked him, why haven't you told your wife what's 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:07.400 going on with this case? He said, because she's a 0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:10.000 part of the establishment and she doesn't have my back. 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.480 What has she done to make you feel that way? 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.440 And he said nothing, I just don't want her to know. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:18.800 According to Mildred. 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:24.040 What turned the case was the defense attorney was asking 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:28.640 the first sergeant what happened and he couldn't recall, and 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:33.520 so the verdict came back not guilty. John was happy. 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:36.080 He said he knew that he was not going to 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.200 be found guilty, and he apologized for not telling me 0:16:39.240 --> 0:16:41.400 about the whole case, but he said, because you were 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:45.880 pregnant with Taliba, and I didn't want those emotions to 0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:47.480 affect our child. 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:53.440 Eventually, in nineteen ninety four, John was honorably discharged from 0:16:53.440 --> 0:16:58.720 the military. During this period, John and Mildred had also 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:02.280 been introduced to the name of Islam. The Nation is 0:17:02.320 --> 0:17:05.600 an African American religious and political group based on the 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.959 Muslim faith. It was started in the nineteen thirties and 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:13.480 then was popularized by Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali. Mildred 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.119 converted first in nineteen ninety six and John followed in 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:21.160 nineteen ninety seven. The Nation of Islam has been heavily 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.840 criticized for promoting anti white and anti Semitic ideology, but 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.720 Mildred says the Nation does not teach people to hate 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:32.040 those of other races or beliefs. Rather, it helped her 0:17:32.160 --> 0:17:35.560 understand her role as a black woman in society, and 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.040 it gave her greater insight into the Bible and the Koran. 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.320 Everyone has their own spiritual path, and that was the 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.640 one that I chose because I needed clarity on who 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:52.320 God is, where is my position, who I am, and 0:17:52.440 --> 0:17:55.520 where I needed to be and the type of mother 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.399 that I wanted to be to my children. So with 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.720 him join us a year later, then that was just 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.960 what he decided to do. And then he would go 0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.960 to the brother's meetings and do what they do. 0:18:09.600 --> 0:18:13.600 After John left the military, he needed work. They decided 0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.240 to use John's background fixing vehicles in the military to 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:21.000 start a unique auto mechanic business. Instead of operating from 0:18:21.000 --> 0:18:24.160 a shop, John would go directly to the customer's car. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.240 He would either work on it there or take it 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:31.119 back to his home garage. The business started off well, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:34.159 but John and Mildred needed help with the bookkeeping. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.200 I was working one day and a woman walks through 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.480 my door. Her name was Mildred Muhammad. 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:41.560 She was the. 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:47.440 Spouse of John Muhammad. They just converted from Williams to muhammad. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.560 Is and Nichols ran a business development at accounting company. 0:18:51.240 --> 0:18:55.119 Mildred saw an ad for it and sought her out specifically. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:57.760 I would say probably an hour and a half. In 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:02.280 two our meeting for the first time, she wanted to 0:19:02.400 --> 0:19:06.320 do business with me. They had started a business of 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:11.240 repairing cars. The second meeting was to do more of 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:14.280 an intake with them, and so her husband was present 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:15.399 at our second meeting. 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.840 This is when Isa met John for the first time. 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.639 And he walked in the door. He was very tall, 0:19:22.280 --> 0:19:26.640 quite handsome, and had a very hard handshake, very direct 0:19:26.720 --> 0:19:30.040 look you straight in the eye. Short haircut, you can 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.800 tell he had been in the military. Very polite, called 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.960 me sister, which is a term of endearment in the 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.560 black community. He was very glad to meet me. He 0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.240 was very glad to be doing business with another sister. 0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:47.240 Mildred Muhammad was the administrator. She was the one who 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:51.119 would be dispatching and taking the calls for services, and 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.639 John would go out and do the work. Mildred and 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:59.400 I usually were the ones talking. We became friends more so, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:04.080 and John and I we had some commonalities. Her husband 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:06.520 was stationed at Fort Lewis. My husband was stationed at 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:12.200 Fort Lewis. She related to her husband. She was very respectful. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:16.240 She was very humble with him. He referred to her 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:23.080 as his wife, his loving wife. Very promising in the beginning. 0:20:23.960 --> 0:20:27.119 But soon Isa began to notice things about John and 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:32.480 Mildred's relationship, strange things. And the summer of nineteen ninety seven, 0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:36.840 John's son from his previous marriage, Lindbergh, came to visit 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:38.200 Tacoma from Louisiana. 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.280 He didn't want to return home. He said there was 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.840 abuse in different things and he was afraid to go 0:20:44.920 --> 0:20:47.800 back home. Mildred talked to me about it in terms 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:50.520 of what should she do, and I said, you're going 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:52.480 to have to send him back to his mother. 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:57.280 Mildred says John was adamant that they keep Lindbergh. John 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.760 was worried that Lindbergh really was being abused in Louisiana, 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.000 so he got a lawyer and went to court, hoping 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:05.320 to gain custody of Lindberg. 0:21:06.160 --> 0:21:09.240 And I said to him, what you're doing is wrong. 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:13.120 Carol was calling and he wouldn't talk to her. I said, 0:21:13.160 --> 0:21:16.200 you need to talk to her. This is not your 0:21:16.720 --> 0:21:19.320 decision to make on your own, and you need to 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.720 get some background as to what is really happening with Lindberg. 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.480 But when John went to court, the judge in Washington 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.800 said that he didn't have jurisdiction, and so John had 0:21:30.800 --> 0:21:32.160 to send Lindbergh back home. 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.199 So that night I came back from a mosque meeting 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:45.560 and John had this huge scuffle bag as long as 0:21:45.720 --> 0:21:50.919 a twin bed packing. John, Selena, and Taliba were just 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.960 sitting on a bed and Limbert too, And I said, 0:21:54.000 --> 0:21:57.960 so what's going on here? He said, well, I'm running 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.680 with Lynn. No you're not. Why would you need to 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:06.680 run with Lynn because he's being abused and I need 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.240 to protect him. I say, but the judge said, he 0:22:10.400 --> 0:22:16.800 needs to go home tomorrow, and you're gonna run with 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:22.720 him and leave me and the children destitute. Is that 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:26.320 what you're telling me? Well, I just need to protect 0:22:26.359 --> 0:22:29.119 my son, and say, no, you need to take Lynn back, 0:22:29.440 --> 0:22:34.960 and he's leaving tomorrow. So I took Lynn and the children. 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:38.960 We went in the second bedroom and I locked the door, 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:44.800 and I packed Lin's bag and I sat on the 0:22:44.840 --> 0:22:48.720 floor with my back to the door so that he 0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:53.680 could not get in. And when daylight came, we all 0:22:53.720 --> 0:22:57.560 got dressed and we got in the car and John 0:22:57.720 --> 0:23:01.360 was sitting on the sofa and when we passed by, 0:23:01.560 --> 0:23:05.360 I said, are you coming to the airport to see 0:23:05.400 --> 0:23:09.840 your son off? And he said yeah. So I drove 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:13.320 the children in the back, laughing and talking with Lynn, 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:18.400 and the whole time he's just looking straight ahead. So 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:20.880 we checked him in. We walked him to the gate, 0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:25.760 and we watched the plane take off, and John did 0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.600 a right face, just like he was in the military, 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:34.480 just the right face, and walked off. And when we 0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:37.400 got back in the car and he said, you didn't 0:23:37.440 --> 0:23:42.399 have my back. I said, I was not about to 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:48.280 watch you take limbird away from her for no reason. 0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.480 And that is when the relationship changed. 0:23:57.480 --> 0:24:01.920 The incident with Lindbergh was just the beginning. Soon other 0:24:01.960 --> 0:24:05.760 people began to notice odd things about John and Mildred's relationship. 0:24:06.480 --> 0:24:10.879 They didn't fight a lot, but they did fight. Sure, 0:24:10.920 --> 0:24:13.119 there was a couple of times that it would be 0:24:13.280 --> 0:24:16.399 right there and you would just kind of hear the 0:24:16.520 --> 0:24:18.520 attitude in the voices. 0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.320 This is Felix Strojer in Tacoma. He and John had 0:24:23.359 --> 0:24:27.040 opened a martial arts business together. Felix was the martial 0:24:27.119 --> 0:24:31.280 artist and John was the businessman. Mildred helped out with 0:24:31.320 --> 0:24:35.360 the bookkeeping, so Felix regularly saw the couple interact. 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:37.639 You know, I think that they kept a lot of 0:24:37.640 --> 0:24:43.320 this stuff hit. I knew that they had problems, but 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:50.680 not to the extent that it went it went too far. 0:24:52.160 --> 0:24:55.960 Despite the tension with Mildred, Felix says that John loved 0:24:55.960 --> 0:24:57.919 his kids more than anything. 0:24:58.920 --> 0:25:01.760 I remember one of them he would always have in 0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:07.199 his arms. Any little kid sometime will start to play 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:11.159 in class or something. But the thing is all John 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:14.159 would have to do is just look their eyes just 0:25:14.280 --> 0:25:18.480 had to meet a little John knew to just get 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:23.000 it together. I never seen him spank him or anything, 0:25:23.240 --> 0:25:27.040 but when I did see the eye contact, I knew 0:25:27.080 --> 0:25:31.080 that it had been some work to make that happen. 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.320 You know, little kids, they have to learn to look 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:37.600 for that look. But I think he had a good 0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:39.959 relationship with him. He loved him. 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.160 But Felix says that John also had a darker side. 0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:49.800 On one occasion, Felix noticed that John had taken a 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:54.159 liking to a young female student, and then she stopped 0:25:54.200 --> 0:25:59.680 coming to class, presumably to avoid John. Even still, Felix 0:25:59.720 --> 0:26:01.879 says that John would go over to her house. 0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:05.440 This might have been something that I should have paid 0:26:05.480 --> 0:26:09.480 attention to, because if I remember right, it was almost 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:14.400