1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Monster DZ Sniper, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:08,400 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV. The views and opinions expressed in this podcast 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: are solely those of the podcast author or individuals participating 4 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: in the podcast, and do not represent those of iHeartMedia, 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 1: Tenderfoot TV, or their employees. This episode contains stories of 6 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:23,200 Speaker 1: domestic abuse. If you or someone you know maybe experiencing 7 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,640 Speaker 1: domestic abuse, you can call the Domestic Violence Hotline at 8 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: one eight hundred seven nine nine seven two three three, 9 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 1: or visit the website the hotline dot org. Listener discretion 10 00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: is advised. 11 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,200 Speaker 2: When you meet someone for the first time, you always 12 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 2: put your best foot forward. You don't want that person 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,200 Speaker 2: to know all of your flaws, and you don't want 14 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 2: them to think badly about you because you're really interested 15 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,279 Speaker 2: in that person, and you hide it as long as 16 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 2: you can. I am Mildred Muhammad. I'm an award winning 17 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: global keynote speaker, and my former husband was John Ala Mohammad, 18 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 2: whom you all know to be the DC Sniper. Everybody 19 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 2: loved John because he was jovial. He was that guy, 20 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,479 Speaker 2: that guy of if you needed something, go to John. 21 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: But he was not one to show his emotions, so 22 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: in not showing his emotions, it was difficult for people 23 00:01:32,120 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: to read him, to understand exactly what was going on 24 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: with him. I believe he was always that type of 25 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: person that blew up. He was just very good at 26 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: concealing it. I believe going to Saudie only intensify that 27 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 2: to a whole different level. He received artists to go 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: to Desert Storm for the war, but he comes back 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: three months later because he received an injury. But then 30 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: other stories begin to come forward. He was accused of 31 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 2: trying to kill other soldiers. John was a sergeant over 32 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: a unit. A soldier challenged him in front of others, 33 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 2: and he felt humiliated. That soldier that night was in 34 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:37,040 Speaker 2: charge of the explosives. John went snuck into that area 35 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: and stole a grenade. He threw the grenade in the 36 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:51,480 Speaker 2: tent and jumped into his sleeping bag. The grenade went off. 37 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: He was accused of trying to get back at that 38 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: soldier that challenged him in front of the other soldiers. 39 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 2: They put him in a dungeon. They hogtied him and 40 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: left him there. And when he comes back, it's not 41 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: the same person. 42 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 3: There is a ruthless person on the loose. 43 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,079 Speaker 4: What unerves this community the most is the randomness of 44 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:28,960 Speaker 4: the murders, ordinary people doing ordinary things. They killed the 45 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:31,519 Speaker 4: five people in one day and then went on the 46 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 4: rampage for the next month. 47 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 5: It is quite a mystery. 48 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 4: The police say they have never had a crime quite 49 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 4: like this. 50 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 6: Be careful, these guys are using weapons that are going 51 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 6: to go right straight through our bulletproof vests. 52 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 4: From iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. This is monster DC Sniper. 53 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 4: On the morning of October twenty second, two thousand and two, 54 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 4: Leise found the names of their first real suspects in 55 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 4: the DC Sniper case. Authorities connected the snipers to a Montgomery, 56 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 4: Alabama liquor store shooting. At that crime scene, police found 57 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,960 Speaker 4: a fingerprint. The FBI then matched the fingerprint to a 58 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 4: seventeen year old Jamaican boy named Lee Boyd Malvo. He'd 59 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 4: been arrested in Washington State in two thousand and one 60 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:28,720 Speaker 4: on suspicions of illegal immigration. The arrest report also listed 61 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 4: another name, John Allen Muhammed. That name set off alarm 62 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 4: bells for police. Someone in Washington State had called in 63 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 4: a tip about a John Mohammed, saying he might be 64 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:47,040 Speaker 4: involved in the DC sniper attacks. So now Lee Boyd 65 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 4: Malvo and John Mohammad were prime suspects. Police quickly learned 66 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 4: all they could about the pair, and here's what they discovered. 67 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 4: John Mohammad was born John Williams on New Year's Eve 68 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 4: nineteen sixty and grew up in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. In 69 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:08,719 Speaker 4: the fall of nineteen eighty three, when Williams was twenty two, 70 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 4: he met a young woman named Mildred Green. Mildred was 71 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 4: twenty three, a next cheerleader and devout Baptist who lived 72 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 4: with her mom. 73 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 2: I was walking to the store and my friend Valina 74 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: picked me up and she said, where are you going? Said, 75 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,640 Speaker 2: I'm going to the store for my mom. And so 76 00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 2: we pulled up at the corner store. She went in 77 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 2: and she came out with these two guys. When upumas 78 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: John and he put his head through the driver's side 79 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 2: window and said, what is your name? I said? Mildred said, 80 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 2: I'm John. Would you like to go out tonight? I said, 81 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 2: I need to check my schedule. I didn't have a schedule. 82 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 2: I'm available at about seven. We said, okay, I'll be 83 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: about to pick you up. We went over to Southern University. 84 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 2: There was a couple area over by the river, Mississippi River, 85 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: and we were just talking and he says, so, are 86 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:08,520 Speaker 2: you say any about us? Said nope. He said why not? Said, 87 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: I'm waiting for the right man to show up. He said, 88 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 2: well he just did. Said okay, So he dropped me 89 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 2: off at home, and then the next day he called 90 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 2: and so we just started talking and hanging out. He 91 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 2: was a welder, an excellent welder. 92 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: What were the qualities of the man that you found attractive? 93 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 2: Well, he had a beautiful smile, he was jovial, funny. 94 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:36,359 Speaker 2: He said what he meant, and he meant what he said, 95 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: and that's something that most men don't do. 96 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 4: Mildred had grown up without a father and had never 97 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 4: had a serious boyfriend. Most of her ideas about relationships 98 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:51,239 Speaker 4: came from TV and movies. John was romantic and said 99 00:06:51,279 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 4: all the right things. 100 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:57,039 Speaker 2: About six months in, my friend Elena came over and 101 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 2: she said, so, how are you and John? I said, 102 00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: are we good? She said, so? 103 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 4: You know? 104 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,119 Speaker 2: He married right? What? 105 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 4: It turns out that John was already married to a 106 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 4: woman named Carol and they had a son named Lindburgh. 107 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: It was devastating for me to find out that he 108 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: was married. But I knew I had to stay away 109 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 2: from him. I said, okay, I'm got to break that off. 110 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 2: So finally I did. But then he came back and said, 111 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 2: I have some terrible news to tell you. I say, 112 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 2: what's that? He said, I can't read, and he couldn't. 113 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: All he could do was write his name. So he 114 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: had adapted as an adult to not being able to read. 115 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 2: His whole family didn't know he couldn't read. Nobody knew 116 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 2: he couldn't read. 117 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:49,559 Speaker 4: Mildred felt that John, who in many ways was closed off, 118 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 4: was finally opening up to her. She cared deeply about 119 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 4: John and wanted to help him. 120 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 2: He said, well, I want to go back in the military. 121 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 2: So I taught him how to read enough to pass 122 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: the test to be reinstated in active duty. And after 123 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 2: he passed the test, I say we're done. 124 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 4: John enlisted in the Army and was stationed in Fort Lewis, Washington. There, 125 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,760 Speaker 4: John qualified as an expert with an M sixteen, the 126 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 4: army's standard infantry rifle. That rating is the Army's highest 127 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 4: of three levels of marksmanship for a typical soldier. 128 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 2: So he left went to Fort Lewis, and he wrote 129 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: me a letter and said, hey, I can't do this 130 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 2: without you. I'll do whatever it takes for you to. 131 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 4: Be with me. 132 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: Just come, and he sent an airline ticket and I left. 133 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 4: You love this man. 134 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 2: I did, absolutely, with all of my heart. I did, 135 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: and I wanted to build a life with him. And 136 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 2: about three months later he got a divorce and then 137 00:08:54,600 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 2: we got married. It was a sunny day, was and 138 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 2: Grace Chapel ahead on a white dress. He was in 139 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 2: dress blues ceremonial uniform for military. 140 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 4: Two years later, in January nineteen ninety, John and Mildred 141 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 4: had their first child, John Junior. A little less than 142 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 4: a year after that, John was deployed to Saudi Arabia 143 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 4: for Operation Desert Storm. He worked as a combat engineer 144 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 4: and metal worker, and it was here that Williams was 145 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 4: said to have thrown a grenade into the tent of 146 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 4: a fellow soldier. 147 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: So they came and brought in investigators. The commander had 148 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,400 Speaker 2: us to come to his office. 149 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 4: John had his own side of the story. According to 150 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 4: that account, John had previously approached an officer with complaints 151 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,839 Speaker 4: of racism from white soldiers. John says those soldiers felt 152 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 4: the need to retaliate, so they created a phony grin 153 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 4: a story to blame on him, and then his punishment. 154 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 4: He was hogtied and humiliated. 155 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:15,000 Speaker 2: And the commander said to John, we investigated your allegations. However, 156 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 2: when the investigators came to ask you questions, you didn't 157 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 2: answer them. I didn't know that, he said, so, Sarga Williams, 158 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,800 Speaker 2: why didn't you answer those questions? And John looked at 159 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:37,679 Speaker 2: him and said, permission to be released. Commander said, permission granted, 160 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 2: and we got up and we left. 161 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,880 Speaker 4: After the commander released him from the meeting, John stopped 162 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:48,400 Speaker 4: talking about the incident. The military didn't keep any records 163 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: of the event, so all they had to go on 164 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 4: were conflicting stories. No official charges were ever made in 165 00:10:55,080 --> 00:11:00,520 Speaker 4: the case. At first, Mildred believed John's side of the story. 166 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 4: She trusted her husband, but years later, after she saw 167 00:11:05,200 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 4: what John was capable of, she came to believe that 168 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,760 Speaker 4: the other story was true, that John had in fact 169 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 4: tried to get back at a fellow soldier using a 170 00:11:14,679 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 4: thermite grenade. The issue fizzled out, and John continued to 171 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 4: serve in the military, but he was growing disillusioned. 172 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 5: With it. 173 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,679 Speaker 4: After Desert Storm, Mildred says John was a changed man. 174 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: He was no longer jovial. He didn't want to have 175 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,360 Speaker 2: those long conversations anymore. He was just cutting dry. How 176 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 2: you doing fine, We'll job to nothing. All soldiers had 177 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: come back from a war zone, they always go to 178 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: a hospital first to just do a whole physical, just 179 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 2: before they released them back to their base. All I 180 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,319 Speaker 2: learned was that he was diagnosed with PTSD. 181 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:57,719 Speaker 4: At that point in time, post traumatic stress disorder, or PTSD, 182 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 4: was not a commonly understood. PTSD can occur after a 183 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 4: traumatic experience. It can cause flashbacks of the trauma and 184 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 4: create a heightened sense of fear, and it can make 185 00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 4: people feel depressed or detached. Many who experience PTSD also 186 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,400 Speaker 4: become irritable, aggressive, or distrustful of others, which can lead 187 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 4: to social isolation. 188 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 2: The only person he opened up to was our son, 189 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: so when he came home, he just went immediately to 190 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: play with him. Most of his interactions was with our son. 191 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,000 Speaker 2: But then his behavior became to be obsessive. So I 192 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 2: would buy dishes, silverware. He'd break all the dishes except 193 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 2: for three three plates, three saucers, three bowls. Well, I 194 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 2: finally asked them, so why do you keep breaking all 195 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 2: this stuff? Because this does not make sense. He said, well, 196 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: we don't need anybody else over here. It's just the 197 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: three of us. I said, but what if we have 198 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 2: a party or a company. We're not having a party. 199 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 2: We're not having company. 200 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 4: Mildred says John's erratic moods took a huge mental toll 201 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,320 Speaker 4: on her. She was already raising a child and working 202 00:13:06,360 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 4: full time, and she was trying to cope with John's 203 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 4: strange behavior, but it was becoming harder and harder. Still. 204 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 4: He had never turned his anger towards her directly until 205 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 4: one afternoon when they went to a nearby park. 206 00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: And this park you could rent a boat. I said, 207 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 2: you know, I want to get a boat so little 208 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 2: John can ride in the boat and see what that's like. 209 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,440 Speaker 2: He turned to me with the coldest look in his eyes, 210 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 2: was just empty, and he said, we're not going to 211 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:49,600 Speaker 2: do that. Scared me and I just shut down. It 212 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,960 Speaker 2: was painful the way he looked at me and talked 213 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: to me. He never done that before ever. So we 214 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 2: went home and I went straight to the bathroom and 215 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 2: locked the door, and I stayed in there all day. 216 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:06,079 Speaker 2: I didn't get anything to eat, I didn't get anything 217 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 2: to drink. I was so hurt. I was just devastated. 218 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 2: I was hurt. I could hear little John at the 219 00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 2: door crying, Mommy, please come out, Mommy, please come out. 220 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 2: I drew a bath, I sat in the tub, and 221 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 2: so when I finally did come out, he was sleeping 222 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: on the floor right by the door, and he woke 223 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: up and looked at me. He said, Mommy, you're okay, 224 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: saying Mommy's fine. Now, said Mommy scared me. I say, 225 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: don't ever be scared of me. I just needed some 226 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: time to myself. 227 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 4: How did John respond? How did you respond to John? 228 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 2: He waited until that morning and came and apologized to 229 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 2: me and said he didn't know what came over him, 230 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 2: and he was really sorry. I said, don't you ever 231 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: ever talk to me like that again. 232 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 4: The relationship normalized for a while. It was now early 233 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety three, and the family was back in Tacoma, Washington. 234 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 4: They'd had a daughter, Selena, and Mildred was pregnant with 235 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 4: their second daughter, Taliba. On the surface, things look calm, 236 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,200 Speaker 4: but John was growing more disillusioned with the military, and 237 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 4: he'd gotten into trouble again. 238 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 2: John was brought up on charges for threatening to kill 239 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: his first sergeant. He told the first sergeant, I'll kill you, 240 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: your wife, and everybody in their line. He had an attorney, 241 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: military attorney. We went in to talk to her about 242 00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 2: the case, and as they're talking, she looks at me 243 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: and she says, you don't know anything that's going on, 244 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 2: do you? I say no, am I done? And so 245 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 2: she asked him, why haven't you told your wife what's 246 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: going on with this case? He said, because she's a 247 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 2: part of the establishment and she doesn't have my back. 248 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: What has she done to make you feel that way? 249 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 2: And he said nothing, I just don't want her to know. 250 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 4: According to Mildred. 251 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 2: What turned the case was the defense attorney was asking 252 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: the first sergeant what happened and he couldn't recall, and 253 00:16:28,680 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 2: so the verdict came back not guilty. John was happy. 254 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 2: He said he knew that he was not going to 255 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 2: be found guilty, and he apologized for not telling me 256 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 2: about the whole case, but he said, because you were 257 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 2: pregnant with Taliba, and I didn't want those emotions to 258 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 2: affect our child. 259 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:53,440 Speaker 4: Eventually, in nineteen ninety four, John was honorably discharged from 260 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 4: the military. During this period, John and Mildred had also 261 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 4: been introduced to the name of Islam. The Nation is 262 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:05,600 Speaker 4: an African American religious and political group based on the 263 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,959 Speaker 4: Muslim faith. It was started in the nineteen thirties and 264 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 4: then was popularized by Malcolm X and Muhammad Ali. Mildred 265 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 4: converted first in nineteen ninety six and John followed in 266 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,160 Speaker 4: nineteen ninety seven. The Nation of Islam has been heavily 267 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 4: criticized for promoting anti white and anti Semitic ideology, but 268 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,720 Speaker 4: Mildred says the Nation does not teach people to hate 269 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 4: those of other races or beliefs. Rather, it helped her 270 00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 4: understand her role as a black woman in society, and 271 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 4: it gave her greater insight into the Bible and the Koran. 272 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: Everyone has their own spiritual path, and that was the 273 00:17:42,359 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 2: one that I chose because I needed clarity on who 274 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 2: God is, where is my position, who I am, and 275 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 2: where I needed to be and the type of mother 276 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:59,399 Speaker 2: that I wanted to be to my children. So with 277 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: him join us a year later, then that was just 278 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,960 Speaker 2: what he decided to do. And then he would go 279 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 2: to the brother's meetings and do what they do. 280 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 4: After John left the military, he needed work. They decided 281 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 4: to use John's background fixing vehicles in the military to 282 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 4: start a unique auto mechanic business. Instead of operating from 283 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,160 Speaker 4: a shop, John would go directly to the customer's car. 284 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 4: He would either work on it there or take it 285 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 4: back to his home garage. The business started off well, 286 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 4: but John and Mildred needed help with the bookkeeping. 287 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 3: I was working one day and a woman walks through 288 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 3: my door. Her name was Mildred Muhammad. 289 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 6: She was the. 290 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: Spouse of John Muhammad. They just converted from Williams to muhammad. 291 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 4: Is and Nichols ran a business development at accounting company. 292 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 4: Mildred saw an ad for it and sought her out specifically. 293 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: I would say probably an hour and a half. In 294 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: two our meeting for the first time, she wanted to 295 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 3: do business with me. They had started a business of 296 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 3: repairing cars. The second meeting was to do more of 297 00:19:11,280 --> 00:19:14,280 Speaker 3: an intake with them, and so her husband was present 298 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 3: at our second meeting. 299 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 4: This is when Isa met John for the first time. 300 00:19:19,320 --> 00:19:21,639 Speaker 3: And he walked in the door. He was very tall, 301 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 3: quite handsome, and had a very hard handshake, very direct 302 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: look you straight in the eye. Short haircut, you can 303 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 3: tell he had been in the military. Very polite, called 304 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: me sister, which is a term of endearment in the 305 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 3: black community. He was very glad to meet me. He 306 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,240 Speaker 3: was very glad to be doing business with another sister. 307 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 3: Mildred Muhammad was the administrator. She was the one who 308 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:51,119 Speaker 3: would be dispatching and taking the calls for services, and 309 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,639 Speaker 3: John would go out and do the work. Mildred and 310 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 3: I usually were the ones talking. We became friends more so, 311 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 3: and John and I we had some commonalities. Her husband 312 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,520 Speaker 3: was stationed at Fort Lewis. My husband was stationed at 313 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 3: Fort Lewis. She related to her husband. She was very respectful. 314 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 3: She was very humble with him. He referred to her 315 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: as his wife, his loving wife. Very promising in the beginning. 316 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 4: But soon Isa began to notice things about John and 317 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 4: Mildred's relationship, strange things. And the summer of nineteen ninety seven, 318 00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 4: John's son from his previous marriage, Lindbergh, came to visit 319 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:38,200 Speaker 4: Tacoma from Louisiana. 320 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 3: He didn't want to return home. He said there was 321 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:44,840 Speaker 3: abuse in different things and he was afraid to go 322 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 3: back home. Mildred talked to me about it in terms 323 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 3: of what should she do, and I said, you're going 324 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: to have to send him back to his mother. 325 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 4: Mildred says John was adamant that they keep Lindbergh. John 326 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 4: was worried that Lindbergh really was being abused in Louisiana, 327 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 4: so he got a lawyer and went to court, hoping 328 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 4: to gain custody of Lindberg. 329 00:21:06,160 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 2: And I said to him, what you're doing is wrong. 330 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,120 Speaker 2: Carol was calling and he wouldn't talk to her. I said, 331 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 2: you need to talk to her. This is not your 332 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 2: decision to make on your own, and you need to 333 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: get some background as to what is really happening with Lindberg. 334 00:21:24,560 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: But when John went to court, the judge in Washington 335 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 4: said that he didn't have jurisdiction, and so John had 336 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,160 Speaker 4: to send Lindbergh back home. 337 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: So that night I came back from a mosque meeting 338 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 2: and John had this huge scuffle bag as long as 339 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 2: a twin bed packing. John, Selena, and Taliba were just 340 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: sitting on a bed and Limbert too, And I said, 341 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: so what's going on here? He said, well, I'm running 342 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: with Lynn. No you're not. Why would you need to 343 00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 2: run with Lynn because he's being abused and I need 344 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 2: to protect him. I say, but the judge said, he 345 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: needs to go home tomorrow, and you're gonna run with 346 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:22,720 Speaker 2: him and leave me and the children destitute. Is that 347 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 2: what you're telling me? Well, I just need to protect 348 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 2: my son, and say, no, you need to take Lynn back, 349 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 2: and he's leaving tomorrow. So I took Lynn and the children. 350 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,960 Speaker 2: We went in the second bedroom and I locked the door, 351 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 2: and I packed Lin's bag and I sat on the 352 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:48,720 Speaker 2: floor with my back to the door so that he 353 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 2: could not get in. And when daylight came, we all 354 00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 2: got dressed and we got in the car and John 355 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,360 Speaker 2: was sitting on the sofa and when we passed by, 356 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 2: I said, are you coming to the airport to see 357 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:09,840 Speaker 2: your son off? And he said yeah. So I drove 358 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 2: the children in the back, laughing and talking with Lynn, 359 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 2: and the whole time he's just looking straight ahead. So 360 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,880 Speaker 2: we checked him in. We walked him to the gate, 361 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 2: and we watched the plane take off, and John did 362 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: a right face, just like he was in the military, 363 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,480 Speaker 2: just the right face, and walked off. And when we 364 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: got back in the car and he said, you didn't 365 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:42,399 Speaker 2: have my back. I said, I was not about to 366 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 2: watch you take limbird away from her for no reason. 367 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 2: And that is when the relationship changed. 368 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,920 Speaker 4: The incident with Lindbergh was just the beginning. Soon other 369 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 4: people began to notice odd things about John and Mildred's relationship. 370 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:10,879 Speaker 5: They didn't fight a lot, but they did fight. Sure, 371 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,119 Speaker 5: there was a couple of times that it would be 372 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 5: right there and you would just kind of hear the 373 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 5: attitude in the voices. 374 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 4: This is Felix Strojer in Tacoma. He and John had 375 00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:27,040 Speaker 4: opened a martial arts business together. Felix was the martial 376 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 4: artist and John was the businessman. Mildred helped out with 377 00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:35,360 Speaker 4: the bookkeeping, so Felix regularly saw the couple interact. 378 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 5: You know, I think that they kept a lot of 379 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 5: this stuff hit. I knew that they had problems, but 380 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:50,680 Speaker 5: not to the extent that it went it went too far. 381 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 4: Despite the tension with Mildred, Felix says that John loved 382 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 4: his kids more than anything. 383 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 5: I remember one of them he would always have in 384 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 5: his arms. Any little kid sometime will start to play 385 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,159 Speaker 5: in class or something. But the thing is all John 386 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,159 Speaker 5: would have to do is just look their eyes just 387 00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 5: had to meet a little John knew to just get 388 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:23,000 Speaker 5: it together. I never seen him spank him or anything, 389 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 5: but when I did see the eye contact, I knew 390 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 5: that it had been some work to make that happen. 391 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 5: You know, little kids, they have to learn to look 392 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 5: for that look. But I think he had a good 393 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:39,959 Speaker 5: relationship with him. He loved him. 394 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,160 Speaker 4: But Felix says that John also had a darker side. 395 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 4: On one occasion, Felix noticed that John had taken a 396 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 4: liking to a young female student, and then she stopped 397 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 4: coming to class, presumably to avoid John. Even still, Felix 398 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,879 Speaker 4: says that John would go over to her house. 399 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,440 Speaker 5: This might have been something that I should have paid 400 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 5: attention to, because if I remember right, it was almost 401 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 5: like in a stalking way. I believe that she said 402 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 5: that he would show up when he wanted to. That 403 00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:25,160 Speaker 5: was a problem. I misread his character. He had some issues. 404 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 4: Those issues would become consistent and soon escalate even further. 405 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 4: Here's Icea Nichols again. 406 00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 3: After the third year of being their client, it became 407 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:46,960 Speaker 3: apparent to me that there were some tensions going on 408 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 3: with John and Mildrid. Through the business. There were calls 409 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:59,919 Speaker 3: from clients that John was missing appointments. Milder didn't know 410 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 3: his whereabouts, why he was missing appointments. He would be gone. 411 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 3: She had a list where he was supposed to go 412 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 3: for the day, and then she started getting phone calls 413 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,680 Speaker 3: him not being there, then waiting for him to rive. 414 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,679 Speaker 3: All of this information I got from Mildred telling me 415 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,160 Speaker 3: about calls she received. One of those calls was from 416 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 3: a woman who wanted to speak to the owner. The 417 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:35,200 Speaker 3: woman told Mildred that she wanted to report inappropriate sexual 418 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:41,600 Speaker 3: advances made to her from John for repair of the car. 419 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 3: So now there's an ineducation that there's infidelity. This woman 420 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 3: is calling saying that John is making sexual advances toward 421 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 3: her in lieu of payment. She reaches out to me 422 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:03,040 Speaker 3: because she trusts me business consultant. This is a business issue, 423 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,439 Speaker 3: and she was like, well what do I do? This 424 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 3: is serious, And I said, well, you have to talk 425 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 3: to your husband. You have to make him aware of 426 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 3: this client calling with this information. For Mildred, this is 427 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 3: her husband, father of her children. She's devastated. She didn't 428 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:25,160 Speaker 3: know how to handle it. She emotionally reached out to 429 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 3: me because she was hurt and because she also as 430 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 3: a businesswoman had to respond to this woman. 431 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 4: Mildred wasn't comfortable talking to the young woman who made 432 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 4: these claims, so Mildred asked her friend Stanley to go 433 00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 4: investigate for her. 434 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 2: So he went and talk to the young lady and 435 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 2: she said that John had been over there all the time, 436 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 2: spent Christmas, in Thanksgiving, and even the little boy, who 437 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 2: was I think three or four knew him. He came 438 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 2: back to me, he says, so, Mildred, this is what 439 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,640 Speaker 2: I found out. So what we're going to do? I said, well, 440 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 2: what we're going to do is we want to confront 441 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 2: John because I still got a on his business. 442 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 4: So Mildred finally approached John and he said. 443 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 2: Oh, she's lying, She's this, she's that. But I didn't 444 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: believe him. I asked him for a divorce. I said, 445 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 2: you acting free, you may as well be free. 446 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 4: They agreed to separate, but John didn't want a divorce, 447 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,000 Speaker 4: and although they hadn't settled on rules for seeing the kids, 448 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 4: John moved out. 449 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 2: Of the house, but he still had a key to 450 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 2: the house, so he would come in in the middle 451 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:35,640 Speaker 2: of the night. I could hear the key going in 452 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 2: the door. He would walk back to the bedroom. So 453 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 2: I opened my eye to a slither. Watch him walk 454 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: into the room from one side of the bed to 455 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:52,600 Speaker 2: the other, lean over to listen to me breathe stand 456 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 2: up and leave out of the room. He did that 457 00:29:56,400 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 2: three times. The third time, Taliba woke up and said Daddy, 458 00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:09,160 Speaker 2: and he picks her up and says, here's Taliba, and 459 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 2: then he leaves. So that's when I decided to get 460 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 2: the locks changed. 461 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:20,920 Speaker 4: Even though they were separated, Mildred and John tried to 462 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 4: make the mechanic business work, but soon it began to 463 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 4: fall apart. Here's Ion Nichols again. 464 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 3: I got a call from Mildred. She wanted to inform 465 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 3: me that they were no longer be able to afford 466 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 3: to utilize my services anymore. I felt really sad. She says, 467 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 3: we're not making the money. She says, I don't know 468 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 3: where John is half the time. She's told me that 469 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:54,360 Speaker 3: he sometimes will leave for two three days. I don't 470 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 3: have any more control, and so she didn't know how 471 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 3: the business would survive without John. 472 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 4: Mildred says the mechanic business was no longer important to John. 473 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 4: All he cared about was getting back into the house 474 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 4: and back into the family, and he was determined. On 475 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 4: one faithful night, Mildred learned how dangerous her husband truly was. 476 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 2: He came over and said, we need to talk. My 477 00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 2: brother was there, so I felt I was safe. We 478 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 2: go into garage, so he says, you are not going 479 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 2: to raise my children by yourself. John said you have 480 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:02,880 Speaker 2: become my enemy, and as my enemy, I will kill you. 481 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,600 Speaker 2: I said, well, I've been sleeping with the enemy all 482 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 2: this time. What else you're gonna do? He charges at me. 483 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 2: I ran around him into the house where my brother 484 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 2: was and he leaves and I tell my brother. I said, 485 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 2: John's going to kill me. It's going to kill me. 486 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: He said, girl, John not going to kill you. I 487 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,640 Speaker 2: never went till my brother again for help because he 488 00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 2: didn't believe me. John's mottel was one shot, one killed 489 00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 2: to the head, never leave an enemy behind. He was 490 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 2: a man of his word. He was going to kill me, 491 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 2: and it was going to be a headshot, and he 492 00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 2: was going to bury me where no one would be 493 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 2: able to find me. And I could not get anybody 494 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 2: to believe me. Nobody. 495 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 4: Mildred was thoroughly terrified of John. She went to the 496 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 4: courthouse the next morning to get a restraining order against him. 497 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,280 Speaker 2: Judge say, you really need to get away from this guy. 498 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:21,800 Speaker 2: I say, your honor, I am really trying to do that. 499 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 2: He saw the escalation in how dangerous John was for me, 500 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 2: and he gave me a lifetime restraining order, but still 501 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 2: had to have visitation with the children. So we had 502 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: to set up for someone to pick up the children 503 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,479 Speaker 2: and take them to John and bring them back, and 504 00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,120 Speaker 2: so we found somebody to do that. The first weekend 505 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 2: went fine. Second weekend was my mom's birthday, March to 506 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: twenty seven, I. 507 00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 4: Said Nichols dropped in that evening to see Mildred and 508 00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 4: to tell her mother Happy birthday. 509 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 3: I expect to see the children. I expected to see Mom. 510 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 3: I expected to see John. When I got there, the 511 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 3: children weren't there. John wasn't there. Mildred's mother was in 512 00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 3: the back room, and her brother was there, who was 513 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 3: a truck driver and he was in town. So I 514 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 3: got in and I took my shoes off, and I said, Hey, 515 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,240 Speaker 3: how's it going. She's like, well, it's my mom's birthday 516 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:27,799 Speaker 3: and we're waiting on John to bring the children back. 517 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 3: They should have been back by now. And I said okay, 518 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,520 Speaker 3: So you know, I kick off my shoes and I 519 00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: sit on the couch and I wait with her. When 520 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120 Speaker 3: her brother left, she sits down and she tells me 521 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 3: at that time that they were separated. She told me 522 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 3: that John would come and get the children on the weekend, 523 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 3: and she told me that she was filing for a divorce. 524 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:59,760 Speaker 3: She told me she had problems because John was trying 525 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:07,239 Speaker 3: to get back with her, meaning to stop her filing 526 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 3: of the divorce. She shared with me times that he 527 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 3: was angry and forced his way into the house. Time 528 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 3: had went by. It's six o'clock. I've been there a 529 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,000 Speaker 3: couple of hours, and it's at that point I feel 530 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: the tension. 531 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 4: Mildred was getting worried. The children were supposed to be 532 00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 4: home hours ago and she hadn't heard from John. 533 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,279 Speaker 2: We didn't have cell phones back then like we do now. 534 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 2: We had pagers. So I'm blown up his pager seven 535 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: point thirty. He calls. My son is on the line. 536 00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 2: I said to asks your dad, what time are you 537 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:50,480 Speaker 2: coming home? Say mom? Dad said we'll be there in 538 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 2: an hour. I said, where are you anyway? He said, well, 539 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:57,560 Speaker 2: we're at kmart, which was literally fifteen minutes away. When 540 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 2: eight thirty comes, no children blowing up his pageer Again, 541 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 2: at eleven thirty five pm, he calls and he says, 542 00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: we're en route from Seattle, will be there shortly. 543 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 3: She hung up that phone and she looked at me 544 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:23,480 Speaker 3: and she said something is wrong. Something is wrong, and 545 00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 3: she began to pace back and forth. I know now 546 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 3: that something really is wrong because of what she just 547 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,600 Speaker 3: shared with me. I stayed at their house till ten o'clock, 548 00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:39,400 Speaker 3: almost eleven o'clock, Mildred's making phone calls asking people have 549 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:43,759 Speaker 3: they seen John and the children. I go home. I 550 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 3: call her one more time before I got ready to 551 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 3: go to bed. I lived there, and she says no, 552 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 3: She says, my children are gone. I said, what do 553 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:57,200 Speaker 3: you mean? She said, my children are gone. He took them. 554 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 4: The children never came home that night. The next morning, 555 00:37:01,880 --> 00:37:04,239 Speaker 4: Mildred started calling around looking for them. 556 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,879 Speaker 2: So I'm thinking maybe he took the children to school. 557 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,080 Speaker 2: Because it's a Monday. Went to the school. I talked 558 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:14,160 Speaker 2: to secretary. She said, no, Mammy, your children have not 559 00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:18,040 Speaker 2: checked in. She looked at me because every time they 560 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,000 Speaker 2: saw me I was smiling. I wasn't smiling. I said, 561 00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 2: this was Mohammy, what's the matter. And it was the 562 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,560 Speaker 2: first time I cried. I say, John took the children, 563 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,400 Speaker 2: and she said, let's go in the bathroom, wash your face, 564 00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,920 Speaker 2: go home, call the police. 565 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,399 Speaker 4: Mildred did go home, and her mom was waiting for her, 566 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 4: hoping for some good news. 567 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 2: And when she saw me come around the corner without 568 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 2: my children, she let out a scream. I had never 569 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 2: heard my mother's scream before, and I ran to her 570 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 2: before she hit the ground because she was she was 571 00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: going there, and she said, he took out babies. 572 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:00,719 Speaker 4: He took us babies. 573 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:03,600 Speaker 2: I said, I know mine, So what are we gonna do? 574 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:05,239 Speaker 2: I said, I don't know, but I'm gonna do something. 575 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 2: So I called the police. 576 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:15,040 Speaker 3: They took a report. She gave them pictures of her children. 577 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 3: John had taken the children and vanished. 578 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 4: The police told Mildred that since John had shared custody 579 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:28,880 Speaker 4: of the children, the incident couldn't be filed as a kidnapping. 580 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 4: John had just as much right to the kids as 581 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 4: she did, and that meant there would be no criminal investigation. 582 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 3: She's learning all of this, and she aspirally emotionally every 583 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 3: day because she doesn't know where her babies are. Then 584 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,320 Speaker 3: John began to call her, and he began in this crazy, 585 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,040 Speaker 3: diabolical take me back or you won't never see the children. 586 00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 3: That's when it began. She would plead John, please just 587 00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,600 Speaker 3: bring the children back, and he would constantly hold those 588 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,800 Speaker 3: children and threatened that she would never see the children 589 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 3: again if she didn't take him back. Over time, we 590 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:16,040 Speaker 3: find out that this was strategic. John had taken money 591 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 3: out of the accounts, emptied them out, emptied the children's savings. 592 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:25,600 Speaker 3: Accounts out that he had actually planned this, and here 593 00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 3: he has the money, he has the children, and she 594 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: has nothing. 595 00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 4: Mildred says she got so depressed that she lost all 596 00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 4: desire to eat. 597 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 2: I was eating half a slice of bread and crushed ice. 598 00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 2: That was it, just enough to sustain me. I was 599 00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 2: signing for a package from my mom on Mother's Day and. 600 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 4: I passed out. Shortly thereafter, ISA got a phone call. 601 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 3: And it's from Mildred's mon and Mildred's mom says that 602 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:06,600 Speaker 3: Mildred's in the hospital and if I could go and 603 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:12,440 Speaker 3: check on Mildred for her. I go, and Mildred's in 604 00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 3: the emergency room. I walk into the room and I 605 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,080 Speaker 3: see Mildred and I grab her hand and she opens 606 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:24,759 Speaker 3: her eyes. She looks at me, and she starts apologizing 607 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:31,480 Speaker 3: to me. She starts crying, saying she's sorry. I tried 608 00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,640 Speaker 3: to take care of myself. I tried because those are 609 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 3: the things that I would talk to her about. It's like, 610 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:38,800 Speaker 3: where are you're gonna be when the children are found? 611 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:42,920 Speaker 3: Are you going to be in the psych ward? She 612 00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:50,080 Speaker 3: just was surviving. The phone rings. Mildred answers the phone 613 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,400 Speaker 3: and it's John. Mildred is hooked up the ivs and 614 00:40:54,920 --> 00:41:00,080 Speaker 3: monitors and it's John on the phone. She's screaming, and 615 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 3: let me see the children. John, please don't take the children. 616 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,480 Speaker 3: He's saying, take me back. If I don't get to 617 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:09,440 Speaker 3: come back home, you don't get to see the children. 618 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 3: And she's screaming and she's begging, and all of a sudden, 619 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,720 Speaker 3: she flips out. The ivs are coming out of her arms, 620 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,520 Speaker 3: the monitors are going crazy, beeping and stuff, and the 621 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:25,200 Speaker 3: staff comes into the room. I'm backed up against the 622 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 3: corner while they work on her and calm her down. 623 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,400 Speaker 3: They end up giving her a sedative and she finally 624 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 3: is sedated enough where she's not kicking and screaming. And 625 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,680 Speaker 3: they have to put those things back in her arm 626 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 3: because she had pulled them out. She was so scared. 627 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 4: Mildred was in her lowest place. She hadn't seen or 628 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,520 Speaker 4: heard from her children in nearly two months, and she 629 00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:56,200 Speaker 4: was about to learn that her life was in serious danger. 630 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:02,919 Speaker 2: My mother called the hospital shortly thereafter and told them 631 00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:06,880 Speaker 2: that John just called her and said he was on 632 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:12,960 Speaker 2: his way to the hospital to kill me. A social 633 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 2: worker came and said, you can't go back home because 634 00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:20,399 Speaker 2: we have to put you in hiding so that John 635 00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,719 Speaker 2: will not find and kill you. So they waited till 636 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:29,839 Speaker 2: it got dark, brought me to close, took me out 637 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 2: of the back door of the hospital. They told me 638 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:38,120 Speaker 2: I needed to slouch down in the car so no 639 00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: one could see that I was in the car. But 640 00:42:40,040 --> 00:42:43,200 Speaker 2: I watched the rooftops and I was watching the open 641 00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:46,879 Speaker 2: windows because I knew it was going to be a headshot, 642 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,480 Speaker 2: just as sure as I'm sitting here talking to you, 643 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,080 Speaker 2: I knew it was going to be a headshot. 644 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,879 Speaker 4: Mildred made it safely to a shelter. She stayed there 645 00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,879 Speaker 4: for a few months before relocating to Maryland to stay 646 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 4: with some family. It appeared as though John was nowhere 647 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,480 Speaker 4: to be found, So where was he and where were 648 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,360 Speaker 4: the children? It seemed like nobody knew, But thousands of 649 00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:18,399 Speaker 4: miles away someone did know. The Jamaican boy whose fingerprints 650 00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 4: had been found during the Sniper investigation, Lee boyd Malvo. 651 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 5: He gave me his time. 652 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,080 Speaker 2: He was consistent, even though the consistency was maive. 653 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,880 Speaker 5: He was consistent. 654 00:43:40,239 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 4: Next time on Monster DC Sniper. 655 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 7: This is a very rare time where you're able to 656 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,800 Speaker 7: understand how an individual develops from the day he's born 657 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:55,440 Speaker 7: to the day he was arrested for one of the 658 00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,040 Speaker 7: most sensational crimes of modern time. 659 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,200 Speaker 6: All over the world, who are fatherless, who are not 660 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,759 Speaker 6: in school, who have no role model, who feel like 661 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,440 Speaker 6: they have no purpose, it's so easy for a gang 662 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,080 Speaker 6: leader or even an organization like Isis to recruit and 663 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:16,720 Speaker 6: to give them a sense of purpose. 664 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,040 Speaker 7: He didn't have his parents, he didn't have any structure, 665 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,520 Speaker 7: and all he had was instability. 666 00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:25,280 Speaker 3: I mean, I have no one. 667 00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:27,000 Speaker 5: If I off of a bridge that they know and 668 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:27,440 Speaker 5: get them. 669 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:33,520 Speaker 7: So it probably had a traumatic impact on him knowing 670 00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 7: that this was going to be how my life is. 671 00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 2: I'm going to. 672 00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,839 Speaker 4: Find a way because if I don't find a way. 673 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:42,320 Speaker 2: I'm let. 674 00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: Monster DC Sniper is a fifteen episode podcast hosted by 675 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:56,520 Speaker 1: Tony Harris and produced by iHeartRadio and Tenderfoot TV. Matt 676 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: Frederick and Alex Williams are executive producers on behalf of 677 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:04,439 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, alongside producers Trevor Young, ben Keebrick, and Josh Thain. 678 00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,360 Speaker 1: Payne Lindsay and Donald Albright are executive producers on behalf 679 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: of Tenderfoot TV, alongside producers Meredith Stedman and Christina Dana. 680 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:17,440 Speaker 1: Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. The audio 681 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: you heard of Lee Boyd Malvow in this episode comes 682 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:23,719 Speaker 1: from a twenty twelve interview by journalist Josh White. That 683 00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:27,759 Speaker 1: audio was provided courtesy of The Washington Post. If you 684 00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,680 Speaker 1: haven't already, be sure to check out the first two seasons, 685 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: Atlanta Monster and Monster the Zodiac Killer. If you have 686 00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:39,600 Speaker 1: questions or comments, email us at Monster at iHeartMedia dot com, 687 00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,239 Speaker 1: or you can call us at one eight three, three, 688 00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,840 Speaker 1: two eight five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.