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Speaker 1: From UFOs two, ghosts and government cover ups. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hey, everybody,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. This is stuff they don't

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Speaker 1: want you to know. My name is Matt and I

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Speaker 1: am Ben and today we're covering something pretty great, something

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Speaker 1: that we were a little trepidatious about early on when

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Speaker 1: we were deciding to cover it, but we ended up

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Speaker 1: just just going out and doing it, and we even

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Speaker 1: made a vlog. We made a vlog basically prefacing that

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Speaker 1: it was gonna be dangerous for us to make this episode.

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Speaker 1: And so far, I mean, have you heard anything from

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Speaker 1: our ce A blog. Uh, we haven't heard anything from

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Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology themselves, but we have heard from

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Speaker 1: our audience, and you guys were saying, WTF, man, what

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Speaker 1: what's going on? Why aren't you talking more about Scientology?

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Speaker 1: We want to hear more about it, um, and we

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Speaker 1: might do that in the future, but we thought we

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Speaker 1: could spend some time today looking into operations snow white, right, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So this is kind of our little companion show with

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Speaker 1: our it's gonna match up with our video episode on

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Speaker 1: this subject. Um, so you know, maybe open a window

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Speaker 1: with both at the same time, so we can reference

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Speaker 1: the video and you can listen to the podcast. It's

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Speaker 1: gonna be this crazy experience for you. You're gonna love

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Speaker 1: it well. As we're getting to operations snow White, Matt,

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Speaker 1: if it's cool with you, I'd like to run through

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Speaker 1: a real quick timeline of Scientology in the history. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: super high level. Okay, So around eight or so, l

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Speaker 1: Ron Hubbard, who later goes on to found Scientology, writes

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Speaker 1: a manuscript called Excalibur, and according to most non scientilelogy sources,

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Speaker 1: so most people outside the church objectively looks at this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: ex caliber has some of the seeds that later grow

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Speaker 1: into founding principles of Scientology. So nineteen forty nine, Uh,

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Speaker 1: he starts working on what will later become dionetics. He

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Speaker 1: publishes something they are called Terra Incognita the Mind. Uh.

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Speaker 1: He offers the findings, there's conclusions to the American Medical

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Speaker 1: Association American Psychiatric Association. They're not as jazzed about it

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Speaker 1: as he is. Uh. Nineteen fifty, of course, he publishes

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Speaker 1: his landmark dionetics, Modern Science, Mental Health, and this dionetics

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Speaker 1: idea takes off pretty well, right, So he starts the

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Speaker 1: Hubbard Dionetic Foundation of Wichita in the fifties, and then

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Speaker 1: in May of nineteen fifty two he publicly announces the

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Speaker 1: formal establishment of the philosophy of scientology. Uh and demonstrates

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Speaker 1: you know what would later become the famous E meter.

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Speaker 1: And now we have nineteen fifty four when the Church

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Speaker 1: of Science Pology is incorporated in California and Arizona. At

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Speaker 1: the time, the I r S grants at tax exemption

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Speaker 1: because as we know, religious organizations in the United States

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Speaker 1: are exempt from taxation. Yeah. Um, I would say there

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Speaker 1: are probably a good number of people that might have

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Speaker 1: a problem with that. Yeah, I'm one of them. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm one of them too. Okay, Well, at least we're

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Speaker 1: being honest with everybody about it. Uh. So we could

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Speaker 1: spend a lot of time in the early history of scientology,

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Speaker 1: which you and I both find fascinating, which, by the way,

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Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the film The Master. You

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Speaker 1: should that should just be a caveat there. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: is just a study of how manipulation occurs. That's right,

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Speaker 1: exactly by a guy that has no similarities whatsoever to

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Speaker 1: Mr l Around covered. A lot of people write science

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Speaker 1: fiction and go on to established religions. Yeah, so many, several.

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Speaker 1: Well the guy the Master for sure. Okay, so let's

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Speaker 1: go to the meat of the problem. Operation Snow White. Now,

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Speaker 1: Operations Snow White is a real thing that did happen,

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Speaker 1: according to the United States court system. And this was

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Speaker 1: really interested in our episode, right because, um, you saw

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Speaker 1: there's a Scientology Myths website run by pro Scientology group

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Speaker 1: and they say that this whole thing was kind of

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Speaker 1: exaggerated and blowing out of proportion, didn't actually happen. But

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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts of it are this. Um, eleven

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Speaker 1: senior people in what was called the Guardian Office of

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Speaker 1: the Church were convicted of obstructing justice, so stopping an investigation,

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Speaker 1: burglarizing government offices, stealing documents and government property. And uh,

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Speaker 1: they were found guilty. They were convicted. There's no other

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Speaker 1: way around it, right, have yours in prison for those guys? So,

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Speaker 1: and is there only one woman? Was it just el

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Speaker 1: around Mary Mary Sue Hubbard? Yeah, or Mary Sue at least? Um,

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Speaker 1: but l Ron Hubbard himself was not convicted. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: Operation So White stands as the single largest proven infiltration

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Speaker 1: of the US government, right, Yeah, which and it is

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Speaker 1: referred to as the snow White program um internally in Scientology.

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Speaker 1: So if you ever hear that, that's the same thing

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Speaker 1: that we're talking about here. Yeah, that's a great point

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Speaker 1: because it comes down to and in a lot of ways,

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Speaker 1: both groups, both the US government and legal system of

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Speaker 1: the country and UH Scientology organization are putting their own

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Speaker 1: narrative on this, right. And so according to the Church

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Speaker 1: of Scientology, these people in the Guardians Office, we're acting

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Speaker 1: in their own accord. The idea of the snow White program,

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Speaker 1: as laid out by Hubbard was to correct misinformation, yes,

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Speaker 1: and to do it by legal means, at least that's

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Speaker 1: what he stated. Yeah, that's right, absolutely, because according to

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Speaker 1: the people who are more on the pro Scientology side

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Speaker 1: of this operation snow White, this idea of infiltrating the

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Speaker 1: US government UH to steal I r S forms among

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Speaker 1: other things, was total b s didn't exist mythological. But

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Speaker 1: the snow White program, which however talked about, was completely legal.

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Speaker 1: But um, the question here is was it really legally

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Speaker 1: correcting a number of here my air quotes here everybody

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Speaker 1: false governmental reports about the church, its leaders and its members,

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Speaker 1: or were they just reports that they didn't like, right,

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Speaker 1: And what was the level of persecution because the other

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Speaker 1: the other idea is that I feel like it's a

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Speaker 1: bit of an argument of semantics snow white program versus

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Speaker 1: operations snow white and uh, the accusation that critics of

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Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology purposefully misinformed people or spread disinformation

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Speaker 1: about this. Uh. The thing is that when Hubard wrote

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Speaker 1: the snow White Program, like, let's just say the Church

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Speaker 1: of Scientology's views on this are but for the sake

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Speaker 1: of argument, let's go with that. So we know that

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Speaker 1: he wrote it in nineteen seventy three um, and that

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Speaker 1: the Apollo, the ship that he was staying on, was

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Speaker 1: meeting hostility and European harbors because of the accusations against

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Speaker 1: the Church of Scientology by former members by governmental agencies

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Speaker 1: across US and Europe, or in the United States and Europe.

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Speaker 1: So this led to some crazy things happening. And there

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Speaker 1: might be a little bit to the idea of an

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Speaker 1: intentional um active persecution against the Church of Scientology because

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Speaker 1: this rumor started spreading um in nineteen seventy three uh,

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Speaker 1: that the Apollo was a c I a ship, that

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Speaker 1: it was somehow associated with the world's favorite clandestined services,

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Speaker 1: and the the inter spread. Well, it turns out that

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Speaker 1: a state department tell hex right, you heard about this

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Speaker 1: h State Department tal x was sent around in what

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Speaker 1: seventy two I believe, So, yeah, and you know, you

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Speaker 1: make waves when that kind of statement comes out literally

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Speaker 1: in the ocean, right, And so we we know that

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Speaker 1: there is some evidence that the State Department really did

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Speaker 1: uh have some sort of problem with Hubbard and was

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Speaker 1: sort of was using some slightly less than ethical means

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Speaker 1: to persecute the guy on his ORG vote. So one

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Speaker 1: of the things we didn't talk about too much are

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Speaker 1: the methods used by some of the people involved in

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Speaker 1: the Operation snow White, Like how did they actually get

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Speaker 1: these files? And there are a couple of different ways

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Speaker 1: that they did this. And I'm taking I'm getting this

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Speaker 1: information from an interview that was conducted with Mike mcclaufrey.

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Speaker 1: He was an os A officer, Okay, that's the Office

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Speaker 1: of Special Affairs, and he said they use a couple

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Speaker 1: of methods. One of them was this thing called a

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Speaker 1: Suitable Guys G U, I. S E. And this is

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Speaker 1: the idea that you just make letterhead perhaps of a

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Speaker 1: false company or a news agency, UM, and you send

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Speaker 1: a letter out to some other agencies, say the d

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Speaker 1: e A, and you ask for certain documents because you're

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Speaker 1: going to make a film. In particular, he talks about

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Speaker 1: how one of his people said they were going to

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Speaker 1: be making an anti scientology movie and could we please

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Speaker 1: get all of these files that you have on record

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Speaker 1: of them so that we can use it in our movie.

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Speaker 1: And that's one way they would do it. Another with

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Speaker 1: the way they would do it would would be to

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Speaker 1: literally break into a building like the what the heck

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Speaker 1: was it? Yeah, this is the d a's office for

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Speaker 1: that he's talking about in this interview, where he had

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Speaker 1: his right hand man go in and unlock the women's

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Speaker 1: bathroom window so that he could come in and use

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Speaker 1: a lock pit to get into the filing cabinet and

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Speaker 1: then copy all the files. I found that really interesting,

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Speaker 1: and I think that right there is where you start

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Speaker 1: getting into the illegal stuff, because it's not illegal to uh, well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it is illegal or not to

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Speaker 1: create a ruse to get some documents. Oh well, it

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Speaker 1: I think it becomes fraud at that point. It can

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Speaker 1: be because it's intentionally pretending or purporting to be someone different.

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Speaker 1: But those those are really good points. I guess you

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Speaker 1: could always say, uh, if if someone does try to

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Speaker 1: prosecute you for what, you could always say, your honor,

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Speaker 1: it was satirical satire. That's pretty great. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that we should say about the operations snow White

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Speaker 1: or excuse me, cough cough, the snow White program is

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Speaker 1: I'll go ahead and for in the sake of fairness,

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Speaker 1: read the official statement from Scientology myths. How about that

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Speaker 1: the snow White program is not being executed today. It

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Speaker 1: was a very specific program for a special state of

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Speaker 1: affairs at the time it was written. The Church of Scientology, however,

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Speaker 1: continues to use the Freedom of Information Act in similar

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Speaker 1: laws all over the world to defend its right of

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Speaker 1: non discrimination and freedom for all. So you know, that's

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Speaker 1: clearly a statement marketed towards the public. UM, and that's

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Speaker 1: their specific position. In the case of the United States

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Speaker 1: versus Hubbard, Uh, the legal system of the US did

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Speaker 1: find that there was an active conspiracy, and this has

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Speaker 1: been distressing the people. UM. One thing I wanted to

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Speaker 1: ask you about this, Matt, that we never really got

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Speaker 1: a chance to talk about as earlier we said this

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Speaker 1: was the largest proven infiltration of the United States. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that there could be another one? Oh? Yeah, dude,

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Speaker 1: scaring all that. Come on, man, that was huge infiltration

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Speaker 1: of the US. How much you have is there everywhere? Now?

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Speaker 1: We do know that there were communist forces in the

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Speaker 1: US at the time. I mean, McCarthy was crazy, but

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Speaker 1: he also had some good points there. So you think

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Speaker 1: that that you think then if there were a larger

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Speaker 1: infiltration of the government, that it would be from a

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Speaker 1: foreign power, like I think that's the more likely. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's the most likely. Culprit Well, what do you think

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Speaker 1: about the idea that the largest infiltration of government is

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Speaker 1: by banking, as in a central bank that is in

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Speaker 1: no way affiliated with the US government, or as in

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Speaker 1: a private, private banking UH concern. You know, the idea

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Speaker 1: that one of the larger banks, like maybe JP Morgan

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Speaker 1: or something would be able to infiltrate the U S. Government.

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Speaker 1: And when we define infiltrate, we're saying by not necessarily

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Speaker 1: burglarized somebody's office so much as UH swayed the decisions

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Speaker 1: or write the laws. Were getting people who work for

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Speaker 1: them then to work for the government. You mean kind

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Speaker 1: of like a I don't know, sliding the what is

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Speaker 1: the phrase, the rotating sort of door that revolves the

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Speaker 1: revolving door, I mean, which is a real thing that exists.

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Speaker 1: And once you're done with Congress, you can go work

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Speaker 1: for uh any number of large banking institutions or uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's so many there's so many jobs you

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Speaker 1: can get after being a congressman or a senator. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The job security post politics is pretty good as long

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Speaker 1: as you toe the party lines. And there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of things you can never go on record saying, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I wonder I don't have any statistics, but I

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Speaker 1: wonder if it works the other way around just as easily,

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Speaker 1: Like if you can go from private to political? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why would you want to? I don't know, but I

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Speaker 1: guess to change the rules. It's a good question of rules. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a good question. So we're that's speculation on our

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Speaker 1: part um. We're we're talking, you know. I like that

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Speaker 1: we both had two big guesses, right, And we received

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Speaker 1: some emails from some other people or YouTube comments, Facebook comments,

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Speaker 1: and stuff about the other infiltration possibilities, and they ran

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Speaker 1: the gamut. We had a couple of people that popped

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Speaker 1: up every time, you know, corporate infiltration popped up, the

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Speaker 1: idea of communist infiltration popped up in a few others.

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Speaker 1: But it made me think that we should really cover

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Speaker 1: infiltration in our show, on our video show, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we're doing. Um. But before we go out, Matt,

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Speaker 1: do you do you want to do some listener mail?

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Speaker 1: I do? All right. Here is some listener mail we

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Speaker 1: got from Tom n Ben. It says, dear, Dear, I

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Speaker 1: guess suff they don't want you to know. Long time subscriber,

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Speaker 1: first time writer. Have you guys ever delved into any

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Speaker 1: of these mysterious object blocking the Highway ninety nine drill,

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Speaker 1: the by gong pipes okay, the Great Attractor or gravitational anomaly,

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Speaker 1: and also d MT and mother beings. Loyal fan Tom

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Speaker 1: n Okay, Now I don't know several of these. I've

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Speaker 1: never even heard. The Highway ninety nine drill, I guess

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Speaker 1: that was a thing, or the by gong pipes. The

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Speaker 1: by goon pipes, I know, are a mysterious set of

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Speaker 1: artifacts that are going into that that extend from the

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Speaker 1: grounds there in China that are supposed to be they

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Speaker 1: it's hard. They can't figure out how they were made

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Speaker 1: at the time, I guess I think, yeah, they've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of questions. How were they made? Why were

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Speaker 1: they made? You know, were they vents for something underground?

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Speaker 1: And the areas that they lead to are too small

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Speaker 1: for a person, so is it an ancient It's probably

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Speaker 1: an ancient technology technology of some sort, but we're not

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Speaker 1: sure what now. As for the Great Tractor the anomaly,

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Speaker 1: that's something that you and I haven't explored any more

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Speaker 1: than the sing on Highway. But d MT by Friends. Oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: we have an episode just about d m T. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's actually coming out. I'm not exactly sure when

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Speaker 1: this publishes, but it's gonna be out hopefully by the

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Speaker 1: time you uh eisode. It will be on our channel

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Speaker 1: on YouTube dot com slash Conspiracy Stuff, and also on

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Speaker 1: iTunes yep, and we're also on Facebook and Twitter as

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Speaker 1: conspiracy Stuff. We need to ask for help from you. Now.

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Speaker 1: We're just getting started with this show. We're trying out

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Speaker 1: a couple of different things. You know, we've had shorter episodes,

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Speaker 1: longer episodes stuff like that. If you are listening to

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Speaker 1: this via iTunes, why didn't do us a solid make

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Speaker 1: our year for us and go to iTunes and just

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Speaker 1: give us, give us a nice rating. There be be charitable.

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Speaker 1: It'll be your good deed, and you know, just give

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Speaker 1: us four or five stars or whatever. And then later

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Speaker 1: when someone says, hey, uh, canna borrow some money, or hey,

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Speaker 1: will you give me your car or whatever, you can say,

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Speaker 1: no can do, Jose Conseco, I already did my good

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Speaker 1: deed for the day. Sorry, don't you know what to say?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. All right, So we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get out of here. Thank you guys so much

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Speaker 1: for checking out the show. Uh, please do send us

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Speaker 1: an email let us know what you would like to

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Speaker 1: hear an upcoming episode. Our address is conspiracy at Discovery

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Speaker 1: dot com. From more on this topic, another unexplained phenomenon,

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Speaker 1: visit test tube dot com slash conspiracy stuff. You can

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Speaker 1: also get in touch on Twitter at the handle at

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Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff.