WEBVTT - Desmond Child 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:12.280 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:19.440 My guest today is musician, performer songwriter Desmond Child. Hey, 0:00:19.560 --> 0:00:24.160 I gotta ask you why, Desmond Child. Okay, I was 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.640 going to Miami Beach High along with some other notables 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.040 like Mickey Rourke and Andy Garcia. Were they there when 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.600 you were there? Yeah? Yeah, because Mickey was one year 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.280 ahead and um Andy was two years behind. Did you 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:44.000 know them? Mickey was my protector from the bullies, really yeah, 0:00:44.040 --> 0:00:47.479 but that started in junior high at Nautilus. And do 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.959 you still have contact with him? It's it's like one 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.880 of those soul things. When you see him, you can act. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:57.680 But yeah, but every ten years we run into each 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:59.840 other in the strangest places and we talked for three 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.480 and then I don't see him for another ten years. Okay, 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.399 so keep going. So you're going to I'm going to 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:10.880 Miami Beach High. And you know, I Beach High was 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:13.720 like nine o two one oh because all the parents 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.080 were either Italian or Jewish and they all built ran 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:21.399 or whatever all the hotels on Miami Beach. So all 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.000 the parents they put so much money into that school. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:26.440 So it was like a private school and how many 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:28.360 kids went to the school, do you remember? No? But 0:01:28.560 --> 0:01:32.160 I was like busting myself in from the projects. You 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:37.080 remember that movie Moonlight. Yeah, sure, those projects. That's where 0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:40.560 we live for twelve years. And I just was going 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:44.040 to Edison Junior High School and it was like no 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:47.319 learning being done. It was all like, you know, okay, 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:50.280 just the way, because did you work the angles so 0:01:50.320 --> 0:01:52.560 you could get into that school like you're living with 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.840 your mother or with my aunt? Yeah, and so I 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.160 it was three busses to get there, and uh, it 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:03.920 was extraordinary, and so on the law, you know, during 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:06.400 lunch there was a lawn and the kids were out 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.079 there smoking whatever, wandering off to restaurants where you'd see 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.520 the principal in way you weren't even supposed to be 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:16.520 off school grounds. And um, there was a a girl 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.240 and she sort of looked like Yoko. She had this 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:23.360 long black hair and granny glasses, all dressed in black, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.000 and she was playing acoustic guitar and she was playing 0:02:27.480 --> 0:02:30.800 her own song. And you know, because my mom was 0:02:30.840 --> 0:02:33.079 a songwriter, and I guess maybe there was a kind 0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:37.880 of connection. And her name was originally Deborah Walstein, and 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.560 then everyone called her Debbie Wall, and we just immediately 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.000 bonded and we decided to become a duo. So we 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.240 loved the name night Child, you know, so she did 0:02:48.320 --> 0:02:49.720 Why did you like the name night Child? Where did 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:51.760 that come from? It just it was dark and it 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.360 was her mon hess and it just you know, the 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:57.320 magic theater and all this kind of stuff. And so 0:02:57.840 --> 0:03:01.200 I started wearing all black as well, and I guess 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.640 we like invented goth okay, And so we had night Child. 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.320 And so in order to be night Child, she became 0:03:08.440 --> 0:03:12.000 Virgil Night and I j and I became Desmond Child 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:18.680 and Desmond from oh blahdo bladah wow, because I was 0:03:18.720 --> 0:03:21.160 trying to think of there aren't that many Desmond's. I 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.280 was wondering what the inspiration was my whole career. When 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.120 people met me, they couldn't understand that I was white. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:30.120 They thought I was Jamaican. You know. It was like Desmond. 0:03:30.240 --> 0:03:33.720 And I was like, what Desmond Decker. Okay, if we 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.080 look at your passport, does it say Desmond Child? Now? Yeah, 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.120 what does so you change your name legally? Yes? So 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.320 what's the middle name? I couldn't think of one, So 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.240 it's just a child, Okay. I first became aware of 0:03:46.280 --> 0:03:49.600 you with reviews of Desmond Child and Rouge, and I 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:53.200 bought that album. Then you kind of faded from the 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:57.320 landscape in terms of what my visibility was. Suddenly your songwriter. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:02.400 How does that happen? Well, when I was in Desmon 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:04.600 Child and Rouge, we played all the clubs in New 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.600 York City and we would plaster the streets with our posters. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.080 I got arrested once for doing so, and we would 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:14.520 stencil the sidewalks around Black Rock with our names, you know, 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:17.400 black Rock CBS. Yeah, Desmon Child and Rouge at Tracks 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.160 because that was one of the favorite clubs. And so 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.240 we're playing at Tracks and Paul Stanley from Kiss came 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:28.200 to see us because he was intrigued, and, um, you know, 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:31.240 we made friends. He came backstage and he said, um, 0:04:31.279 --> 0:04:33.080 you know, let's try writing a song. And it was like, 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:35.919 I actually actually didn't know that much about Kiss. I 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.479 thought that was just for little kids and stuff, and um, 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:42.839 you know, so we ended up getting together. We wrote 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.440 a song called I Was Made for Loving You. Well, 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:47.760 certainly that's a big breakthrough here from it. It's kind 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:53.320 of a disco hit. Oh okay, But did they intentionally 0:04:53.360 --> 0:04:56.160 want to change their sound to that sound. No, no, 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:59.560 I that's what Desmond Child and Rouge was doing. And 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:02.360 I had got gotten one of the first drum machines, 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.479 so I was writing two beats, this is you know 0:05:07.000 --> 0:05:10.960 eight machine something like that. You know, it had a 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:13.440 cheesy little sound, you know, but now of course the 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:16.320 hip hop world is using those sounds. You know, you 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:21.080 hear them. Crazy thing is at the rolling was like 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.239 the definitive thing we thought that passed in the facts 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:26.479 on every record. Now just blows my mind, you know. 0:05:27.040 --> 0:05:30.040 So um, well that's a little bit slower, a little 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.560 bit slower. So all Stanley just sees your flyer and 0:05:34.680 --> 0:05:38.360 comes comes. There's no connection, No one's reaching out to him. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:41.920 And was the flyer what was intriguing about the floor 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.560 because he thought I looked kind of well, I had 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:48.360 this kind of one of the first mullets, and uh, 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.600 these gorgeous girls with you know, looking very hot around 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:54.479 So it was kind of like that. People didn't know 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:56.840 what to make of us. Actually, looking back on it, 0:05:56.839 --> 0:05:59.720 we was more like the Scissor Sisters. We're kind of 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.520 hip and playing Reno Sweeney and rubbing shoulders with Andy 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.160 Warhol and Hollywood Lawn, and you know that was an 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:10.239 incredible time. We opened for Patti Smith at the Lower 0:06:10.240 --> 0:06:15.000 Manhattan Notion Club, So we were inventing. Okay, so you 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:16.760 were part of the seed that he was checking out 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:19.880 the sea. Yeah, so we were mixing rock guitars with 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.320 dance beats. We didn't think of it as disco. I 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:25.600 mean when I bought the record, because the record refuted 0:06:25.600 --> 0:06:28.320 the rock press about the record. The record very surprising. 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:30.599 So it was a little bit all over the place. 0:06:30.680 --> 0:06:34.279 And within six months we released a second album called 0:06:34.360 --> 0:06:37.159 Runners in the Night, and that was way more rock. 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:41.000 And it was also the moment because I started desmon 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:43.919 Chan the Rouge with Maria Vidal and we were the 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:47.360 founders and then we added our best friends Diana Grisselli 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:52.719 and Merriam Valley, and then um it was I was 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.640 Marie and I had been together now like three or 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.560 four years, and I realized I was way more gay 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.520 than I was by and then right between the two albums, 0:07:03.839 --> 0:07:07.800 I met somebody that turned my life upside down, and um, 0:07:08.160 --> 0:07:12.080 I just realized I couldn't I couldn't stay. And so 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.520 that's what Runners in the Night is all about. And 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.840 the first song, you couldn't stay what with her? And 0:07:17.960 --> 0:07:20.720 also that broke up the band. So that's why, you know, 0:07:21.000 --> 0:07:24.240 we had so much potential. Where does she today? Oh, 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:29.520 she's amazing artists on her own, but we actually anyway, 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.840 she's she's married to Rick Knowles and who's going to 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:39.160 be that's hysterical and she has her own studio and 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:42.400 she h to ask him the story. He's being inducted 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:45.440 into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame this year. Okay, but 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:49.680 let's go back to Paul Stanley. He meets you backstage 0:07:49.680 --> 0:07:51.720 and the first night he beat back. I want to 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.520 write a song with you pretty much. He said, hey, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:56.680 you guys, you know you're pretty good. We should try 0:07:56.680 --> 0:08:00.120 writting a song together. I I think that maybe his 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:04.520 intention was maybe hooking up with, you know, one of 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:08.160 the girls, right, so you know, it's like we're letting 0:08:08.400 --> 0:08:12.400 the fox into the henhouse, you know. And but I 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.600 think he I want his respect, and so we we 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:19.080 we wrote I Was Made for Loving. Okay, wait, wait, first, 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:20.920 what he said we're gonna write this? Did he include 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.280 the whole band Orges? No? Just me? Because I was 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.040 solely writing, I realized, But I wondered since he wanted 0:08:26.080 --> 0:08:29.280 to pull one of the girls kind of like, you know, okay, 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:33.200 hang with you, hang with Okay, So where did you write? 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:36.600 I was made? I went to U. S. I. R. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.840 And Kiss was rehearsing for the instrument. Yeah, and it 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.199 was the big a room with the stage and all that, 0:08:42.280 --> 0:08:44.520 and off to the side there was a grand piano 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.520 with a cover on it and everything, and they all 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.640 took a lunch break and during that break we sat 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.559 together at that big piano and I started playing the 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:57.160 chords which you made up on the spotter you had previously. No, 0:08:57.280 --> 0:08:59.520 I made it up on the spot you know, and 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:03.439 this kind of like um emo kind of tonight, I'm 0:09:03.440 --> 0:09:05.880 gonna give it all to you, you know. It was. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:11.120 It was kind of like um bravado. And so when 0:09:11.160 --> 0:09:15.280 they went into the studio then with Vinny Poncia a 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.359 little bit slower, so you're there, they're on lunch breaks. 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.880 The song finished during lunch. No, it wasn't completely finished, 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:25.960 but you know, Paul went and ran with it with 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.320 Nny Pontia, the producer. Okay, at this point you're out 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.360 of the loop. I'm out. But so it was really 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.320 your input was all on that one. Day during rehearsal. Yes, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.320 and also this idea of like four on the floor, 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:42.719 you know, you know, it was kind of like exciting. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.280 And then also at that time, big big raves were 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:49.600 starting to happen, and it was like the idea of 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.160 bringing rock to a dance. It was just eighty two, 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:59.120 what no, this is seventy eight, sev seventy eight. We 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:00.679 wrote I think in seven on the seven and then 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:02.640 I think it was released in seventy something like that. 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:07.680 And so you know, the thing was is that I 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.480 was I've always been intrigued and and you know with 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:15.160 the idea of merging styles, you know, like trying to 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.560 grab a little piece of this Pastiche and Desmond Charlon 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.360 Rouge was that we were you know, we had R 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.760 and B elements, we had Latin elements, we had congas, 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:26.960 we had heavy power chords. We told stories like Laura 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.560 Nero and Joni Mitchell and Nelton John. So it was 0:10:30.640 --> 0:10:34.560 like it wasn't like all sex and romance. There was 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.920 always a character and there was always this and that, 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:41.120 and all of that kind of came together really, uh 0:10:41.240 --> 0:10:44.000 with when I worked with bon Jovi. Okay, well, well 0:10:44.080 --> 0:10:46.840 a little bit flower Okay, so you're right. I was 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:51.000 made with loving for loving you, uh, with Paul stan Right. 0:10:51.520 --> 0:10:54.480 How long after you sit there in s I R 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:59.360 do you become aware they're cutting it? Oh? They cut 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.920 it and put it out? What like? Were you part 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:03.360 of the loop or did you just hear it when 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:05.200 it came out? Yeah? I heard it when it came out. Okay. 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:08.679 So in between writing it h and then hearing when 0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:11.320 it come out, it was months, it was Did you 0:11:11.400 --> 0:11:15.120 have any contact with the band that really? No? I 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.959 thought all was good, and then all of a sudden, 0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.760 you know, I started hearing that my song got cut. 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.640 You know, I think from Rick Albertie or Bill a 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:29.480 Coin or or somebody to my manager. At that time 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:33.199 it was Roy Rickson and Matthew Mark and they had 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:36.160 Star Flight Management. Okay, so you hear the song is 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.040 gonna be cut. When do you finally hear the wreck? 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.360 I think that they sent me a copy of it. Okay, 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.160 did you hear it? Did it sound like what you 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:52.480 thought the song was? That you but but better? Like 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.200 it was grand? It was bigger than I could have 0:11:55.240 --> 0:11:58.200 ever Did you immediately hear it? I'm sure you're excited. 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.920 Did you say this is a hit. It was already 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.400 a hit. It when they finally sent me the copy, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:07.840 it was a hit already all over the world. Okay, okay, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.800 when did you first hear it? That's what I'm saying. 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:14.040 When they when somebody you don't even know? It was 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.840 nothing nothing. I was like, you know, kind of in 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.800 the dark, and they were too busy to think about me. Wow. 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:25.440 So uh and you still own all your songs? Well 0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:31.760 not no, not not not like own own. Uh. There 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:36.840 was a catalog sale that I did in and um 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:43.400 that was with PolyGram uh Publishing, and David Simone was 0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:48.680 the head of that and my manager at Winston Simone 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:52.680 you know are not brothers, which is on and they're 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.440 called the Simoni brothers whatever. Uh. So we did, we 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:01.680 did that deal. And at that time, this was after 0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:06.640 the earthquake, we were living my husband and I were 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:11.920 living in Santa Monica, and it really shook, it really shook. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:16.200 And I just said, and I had another friend who said, listen, 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.600 Miami Beach is where it's happening. You can get a 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:22.040 house on the water for almost nothing, just like you know, 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:25.200 and we I just said, let's let's do it. So 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.079 we sold and we moved to UM to Miami Beach, 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:33.680 and I was able to make my mother's dream come true. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:37.040 I bought her her own little mini mansion on Miami Beach. 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.400 That's all she ever wanted. And pretty soon I owned 0:13:40.400 --> 0:13:43.840 four houses on the on the block. Okay, but connect 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.200 me with PolyGram and selling. So then it was getting 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:52.959 really hard to find work. And at that point, all 0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:56.160 of the bands that I had been working with UM 0:13:56.480 --> 0:14:01.320 had started making compilation albums like best of and you know, 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:06.400 they're already like three per act that we're already being reshuffled. 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.720 And Winston said, you know, maybe this is the time 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:14.160 to sell. So, you know, it was I was really 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:18.319 kind of going broke, and UM, I just said okay. 0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:21.160 And my father, who was Hungarian and lived through the 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.440 Depression and in World War two and all that, he 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:28.400 was like, grab the money, grab the money, grab the money, 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:35.640 you know. So so I did, and you know, I 0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:38.400 think that's why we've I've been able to keep a 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.760 pretty high standard of living and also sacrifice a lot 0:14:42.280 --> 0:14:45.320 experimenting with things that maybe I wouldn't have if I 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.160 was like hoping to get the next hit. Okay, just 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.200 a couple of questions you sold a you sold what 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:56.440 did you actually sold the writers and publishers share of 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:03.680 that catalog and retained the performance income from ask Catalcy 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:10.240 for myself. So my catalog at Aska and so then 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:13.280 I started a new catalog before you do that? Okay, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:16.400 what did you do with the money? Well, had people 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.600 to pay off, right, But a lot of time people 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.240 get that check and they blow it completely and they're 0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.200 broke again. No, I've you know, I had to pay 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:28.640 you know, Tim Collins had always told me that he 0:15:28.760 --> 0:15:33.280 man Smarrowsmith. He always insisted that everybody pay off their houses, 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:36.160 no matter what, even if they had to, you know, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:40.200 eat nothing. And so that's what I did. I paid 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.160 off all my debts and created a studio, built a 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:49.840 studio called the Gentleman's Club and started making records there. Okay, 0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:55.480 so you sold, you paid off. How much time did 0:15:55.480 --> 0:16:00.520 you buy with the money you saved? Well? What day 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:07.920 is it today? Today is Wednesday? Okay, so that money 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:12.200 still you still have the rabbits. Very good, I applaud 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:16.720 because we're in an era where mercuriois is buying everybody's 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:18.960 catalog and he's paying an incredible wount. But I just 0:16:18.960 --> 0:16:21.480 worry about the acts who sell who might end up broke. 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:24.720 Obviously not you. But let's go back because of my father, 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:31.320 because you know that Eastern European like don't spend a penny. Okay, 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:35.320 so most people not that savvy, certainly not musicians. You 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:40.479 have that hit in seventy eight, Okay, from the outside, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.160 it looks like you don't have another monster hit until 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.280 you work with bon Jovi. No, I mean I had 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.680 another hit with Kiss called Heavens on Fire with when 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.120 they took their makeup off right, And so it was 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:57.240 that song that bon Jovi was opening for Kiss in Europe, 0:16:57.480 --> 0:16:59.800 and they loved that song. In fact, they had written 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.760 us called In and Out of Love that was very 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:06.119 similar sounding In and Out of Love, I feel my 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:10.360 heat taking It was in the in the and and 0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:13.640 it was in the style of it. And um so 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.720 Paul had said, hey, you know, because he's very kind 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:21.600 of paternal and very generous with everyone, he's like wonderful, 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.800 and he said, John, maybe you should try riding with Desmond. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.479 So I got a call from John bon Jovi and 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.560 I went out to this little wooden house the in 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.720 the end of a cul de sac at the edge 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.440 of like this gray brown marsh. In the very distance 0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:39.560 there was an oil refinery. I mean, this is like 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:42.159 where they buried people in the Sopranos. And this is 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:46.000 New Jersey, New Jersey. Yeah. And so I walk in 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.040 and I'd make a left, and then on the left 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:53.560 I could see Richie's bedroom. Yeah, he still lived home 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:56.439 with his parents. And there was the far faucet poster 0:17:57.800 --> 0:18:01.600 in the in the red right right, the bathing suit 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:05.840 kiss poster led Zeppelin. I mean, I just had a 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:09.280 quick look, and I walked into the kitchen and there's 0:18:09.359 --> 0:18:12.920 this you know, vision of look like from the Court 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:16.880 of Louis, the FOURT with this big you know mullet 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:21.000 and um and John was on one of the you 0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:25.920 know kitchen wall phones, Avocado green on its phone, undoubtedly 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.359 with Doc McGee, and he kind of like nut looked 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:31.800 at me sideways and kind of like nodded. And then 0:18:31.920 --> 0:18:33.800 Richie said, well, come this way, and I had to 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.639 go downstairs into the basement, which was the laundry room. Okay, 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:42.040 this is his parents house, Richie's parents, Yeah, and so 0:18:42.960 --> 0:18:45.159 and uh so I went down to the laundry room 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:48.600 and it's kind of damn and it was you know, musty, 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:51.439 and there was like the washing machine, and then there 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:53.760 was like like I discarded for Mike, a table where 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:55.720 they had put a little keyboard, and then there was 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.080 two little buzzing amps and some chairs and that was 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.000 their writing room. So I went down there. I was 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:04.359 waiting for a which to be sure, because you had 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.400 a relationship with Kiss. They were opening for Kiss. Had 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:11.000 you ever met them previously? This is the first time, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.320 And so I had thought of a title because you know, 0:19:15.480 --> 0:19:19.679 during that time I was working with Bob Crewe. Well, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.040 when do you talk my audience a little bit of 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.040 his history legendary. Well, Bob Crew was the producer and 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.760 co writer of all the four Seasons hits with Bob 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:32.640 Gaudio and he's a character in the stage musical and 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:38.320 movie Jersey Boys. And so he had moved to California, 0:19:38.400 --> 0:19:42.680 from California to back to New York. And he was fabulous. 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:47.040 I mean, he was so stylish and he's so handsome. 0:19:47.119 --> 0:19:50.720 He looked like a Viking model with this red hair 0:19:50.880 --> 0:19:55.560 and you know, tall, amazing, big laugh, and uh, somebody 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.360 said you should work with Desmond. So he we decided 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:01.480 he would be my producer. So I spent two years 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.200 writing with him. Um for me for my project, and um, 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:11.480 it was a very it was I went to songwriting college, 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:15.480 That's what I did. And it was very structured. It 0:20:15.560 --> 0:20:19.040 was brill building style because that's where he came from. 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:22.040 And so he had an apartment that was just a studio, 0:20:22.119 --> 0:20:24.320 didn't have a bedroom, had a little kitchen and just 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:28.679 one room and this studio days. Yeah, but that was 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.280 just for his songwriting. He had a beautiful apartment on 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.399 the East side. You know, there was nothing on the walls. 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:38.160 He couldn't. He was anal about that, you know, uh 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.720 like white berber carpet, cream colored walls, black piano that 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.920 all his hits were written on. There was a black 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:49.199 hard bench that went with it, and an armchair, a 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:53.840 stool that had you know arms that swiveled, very comfortable 0:20:54.000 --> 0:20:57.800 for him. And then there was a pile of of 0:20:58.119 --> 0:21:02.720 um yellow pads. And then he would spend time sharpening 0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.440 pencils and so you'd get the pencil and a pad 0:21:07.680 --> 0:21:11.119 and you know, blank pad and he would not allow 0:21:11.200 --> 0:21:13.359 song to be started until there was a killer title 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:17.840 and there were lyrics and there were things to write about, 0:21:17.880 --> 0:21:20.720 things to say. It wasn't the way I wrote before, 0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:23.359 which was like playing chords and mumbling and hoping that 0:21:23.400 --> 0:21:27.000 those mumbles would sound like something, you know, and then 0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.399 you kind of, oh, you know, build a whole world 0:21:30.400 --> 0:21:35.480 around that one little mumble. I mean, when I learned 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:37.919 how to write the other way, that's when I started 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:41.119 having hits, because you know, I would walk in with 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:44.000 a title, and he also taught me things like the 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.520 tension of the opposites. Um, you know, so even within 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:54.120 each line there was you know, tension of opposites. And 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.240 his rhyming had to be tight, like Broadway tight. None 0:21:59.240 --> 0:22:03.680 of this of than love, you know, enough doesn't rhyme 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:07.640 with love, you know, it was he was like strict 0:22:08.520 --> 0:22:11.440 so and every line had to flow into the next. 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:15.600 There couldn't be these disconnected thoughts. And like, for instance, 0:22:15.640 --> 0:22:18.959 sometimes I hear songs that it's like you this or that, 0:22:19.000 --> 0:22:21.480 and then the guy gets to the course and he 0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:26.800 starts singing. She was like, what, So Bob cleared all 0:22:26.800 --> 0:22:31.119 those cobwebs out of my mind, and so I knew 0:22:31.359 --> 0:22:33.480 to walk in with the title. Okay, just a little 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:38.160 bit slower, you have this ship. The bon Jovi hits 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:43.840 aren't until really, what are you living? On the royalties 0:22:43.880 --> 0:22:46.680 from I was made for Loving You. Okay, that's covering you. Yeah, 0:22:46.880 --> 0:22:49.520 you're working with Bob Crew. Did you have a specific 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:52.760 time you started. Yes, Well, we would meet at I 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.560 think it was called Boni on Street off of Broadway, 0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:59.080 across the street from the mod this modern building where 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.879 he had his studio, and it was lunch special. I 0:23:01.880 --> 0:23:04.560 think it was like four nine six. And it always 0:23:04.560 --> 0:23:07.480 had to be Dutch because he was like in the 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.879 program and he used to fly planes to Paris to 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.600 have croissants with his friends. Wait wait wait wait wait 0:23:13.600 --> 0:23:16.000 wait wait wait, had to be the program. I think 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.639 of alcoholics anonymous. He's not the program, but in his 0:23:18.720 --> 0:23:21.840 own thing, he was like so overly generous that he 0:23:21.960 --> 0:23:24.920 blew like so much money on lavish parties and all that. 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.119 So for his program he had to um like, everything 0:23:29.160 --> 0:23:32.719 had to be Dutch. So I paid my my, you know, 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:35.439 my five bucks, and he pays five bucks and we 0:23:35.560 --> 0:23:39.600 eat the lunch special. So flying to Paris for croissant 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:42.879 was before you got in the picture. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:46.520 with you know, movie stars and you know. Did he 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:50.239 retain the ownership of his songs. I think he did, right, 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:52.639 I think he did okay, Yeah, okay, okay, So you 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.200 went for went for lunch, you paid your five bucks. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:57.480 Then at one o'clock we'd have to be I'd have 0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.040 to be sitting on that bench ready to go, and 0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:03.080 then we'd start. And just so I know, it was 0:24:03.119 --> 0:24:07.239 a piano bench. Yeah, hard, So both of you were 0:24:07.280 --> 0:24:09.480 sitting in front of the piano. No, he was on, yes, 0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.080 and he was on the stool higher up, high up. 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:18.119 And then at six o'clock sharp, session would end and 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:22.240 he'd leave to go to his meeting. And five days 0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:27.400 a week, almost two years, we wrote thirty eight songs together. Okay, 0:24:27.760 --> 0:24:31.480 So when you sat down at one o'clock, did one 0:24:31.480 --> 0:24:33.720 of the two of you already have a title in mind? 0:24:34.640 --> 0:24:36.720 We'd be talking and a lot of it was he 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:41.960 was telling stories from the wild sixties and when he 0:24:42.040 --> 0:24:45.840 met Maria Kllis on the beach in Centrope, and that 0:24:46.040 --> 0:24:48.879 night they threw a little soiree and they both sang 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:54.640 together and like, oh, these amazing stories and the crazy, 0:24:55.000 --> 0:24:59.800 crazy Hollywood orgies and just everything. And so then some 0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.960 thing and something he would say would spark a title. 0:25:04.560 --> 0:25:06.959 Is that, Oh that sounds like a good title, And 0:25:07.000 --> 0:25:09.320 so we'd write down a bunch of titles and then 0:25:09.400 --> 0:25:13.199 we pick the strongest one and start and then usually 0:25:13.240 --> 0:25:15.359 we couldn't get through that song that day, so the 0:25:15.400 --> 0:25:17.960 next day we'd pick up and finish that song, and 0:25:18.000 --> 0:25:21.160 so then the next time it was like that, Okay, 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:26.000 once you have the title, how did you write the song? Um? Well, 0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:32.760 he explained that lyrics have melody in our language, like 0:25:32.880 --> 0:25:43.040 I just went data, see what I'm saying. So then 0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:48.119 how fast you say it? You sing it? And the 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:52.280 um scoring because he compared lyrics to the script. The 0:25:52.400 --> 0:25:55.480 music is a score. You make the movie first and 0:25:55.520 --> 0:25:58.359 then you score it. Because if a scene is supposed 0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:00.919 to be spooky, then you put in the dark courts. 0:26:01.200 --> 0:26:04.280 If it's supposed to be happy, then you make it 0:26:04.320 --> 0:26:07.960 sound happy. So that was how he related it to me. 0:26:08.640 --> 0:26:12.359 So in a lot of my productions, I try to 0:26:12.400 --> 0:26:16.960 make the production cinematic, trying to bring out the meaning 0:26:17.400 --> 0:26:20.520 perfect example, like limon labla loca. When you get to 0:26:20.560 --> 0:26:23.920 the second verse, you hear a gong and he goes 0:26:23.960 --> 0:26:28.200 woke up in New York City in a fun kitchy hotel, 0:26:28.280 --> 0:26:32.080 and I that imagine that you know, whore house in 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.840 Chinatown everything's red beaded curtains, incense, you know, And so 0:26:36.920 --> 0:26:42.680 the gong spoke of that like it just evoked that 0:26:42.760 --> 0:26:47.520 whole kind of bohemian you know moment you know of 0:26:47.680 --> 0:26:50.600 him just crazy. You know, she took my heart and 0:26:50.640 --> 0:26:52.760 she took my money. She must have slipped me a 0:26:52.800 --> 0:26:55.919 sleeping pill, because remember all those urban legends of waking 0:26:56.000 --> 0:27:01.560 up without kidneys and so so okay, so I don't 0:27:03.560 --> 0:27:06.359 And then you would write the lyrics. Yeah, we'd write that. 0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:10.920 We write the lyrics for the chorus, and then once 0:27:10.960 --> 0:27:15.399 we got that, then it would speak to us like, uh, 0:27:15.880 --> 0:27:18.200 what how the verses should be, whether they should be 0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.280 like halftime or whether they should be in the same 0:27:21.320 --> 0:27:25.200 brick brisk manner or depending on what we were we 0:27:25.560 --> 0:27:30.399 were writing. And so that discipline taught me everything. And 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.119 that's the discipline I walk into a but but it 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:36.320 just keeps staying on that. You write the chorus, you 0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.280 write the first at the time, are you thinking of 0:27:39.320 --> 0:27:44.720 the bridge? Are you thinking? Because everything depends on whether 0:27:44.760 --> 0:27:50.359 you've made that that hook payoff and everything that that supported, 0:27:50.520 --> 0:27:54.760 all the little you know, braces that that hold up 0:27:54.800 --> 0:27:59.760 that title and pay off the title. So so you know, 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:02.240 so times to make it really pay off, sometimes you 0:28:02.280 --> 0:28:06.240 have to start really on the down low, with slow phrases, 0:28:06.840 --> 0:28:09.760 lots of time between the things you're saying, and then 0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:14.440 usually have a channel B section that kind of starts 0:28:14.480 --> 0:28:19.000 to wind up the tension, wind up the tension, so 0:28:19.040 --> 0:28:22.080 by the time you hit the chorus, you're ready for it. 0:28:22.119 --> 0:28:24.560 You're ready for the rain to to fall, You're ready 0:28:24.560 --> 0:28:26.800 for the sun to come up. You're ready, you know, 0:28:26.920 --> 0:28:32.240 for for whatever is being promised. And so with that 0:28:32.280 --> 0:28:35.639 in mind, you know, that's why I started having hits 0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:37.760 like okay, wait, just so I know, because thinking of 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:39.960 all those Beatles hits, a lot of them had bridges. 0:28:40.440 --> 0:28:43.560 Assuming you do have a bridge as a songwriter, does 0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.680 that come later or is that something when do you say, oh, 0:28:46.720 --> 0:28:49.160 I want to change it up? I think after the 0:28:49.240 --> 0:28:52.640 second chorus. Then you have to have something to stay 0:28:52.680 --> 0:28:54.960 in the song that's worth staying in the song for 0:28:55.600 --> 0:28:58.280 that you haven't heard before. I saw a lot of 0:28:58.360 --> 0:29:01.560 contemporary music that's just written on the same loop with 0:29:01.600 --> 0:29:04.760 the same chords. It's just cut and paste, and then 0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:09.200 it's like nothing changes harmonically, and and and the trick 0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:11.360 is to make it every time you hear those same 0:29:11.400 --> 0:29:15.680 chords go by having it sound different somehow with texture, 0:29:15.880 --> 0:29:18.240 with you know how fast you're saying things I mean 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:21.800 and I I'm writing songs like that also these days. 0:29:22.520 --> 0:29:25.200 But back then it was like now we had to 0:29:25.320 --> 0:29:27.800 clean the palette, the bridge, had to take us to 0:29:27.840 --> 0:29:30.640 a new place, had to modulate, had to go, had 0:29:30.680 --> 0:29:33.520 to maybe we want the last course to be modulated. 0:29:33.560 --> 0:29:36.280 So that's where we start modulating. So when you get it, 0:29:36.280 --> 0:29:40.360 it doesn't feel like the the you like this kind 0:29:40.400 --> 0:29:44.360 of forced modulation. Okay, you wrote thirty eight songs together. 0:29:44.600 --> 0:29:47.400 Was he working with anybody else or just you just me? 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:51.040 What happened to those thirty eight songs? I have them? 0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:55.240 And did any of them end up becoming hits? Why 0:29:55.280 --> 0:29:57.200 do you think that is? We wrote two songs and 0:29:57.240 --> 0:30:01.920 then he got me a deal at Epic Records, um, 0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:06.280 and you know, they didn't take me seriously or anything 0:30:06.320 --> 0:30:08.920 like that, and they just kind of they went by 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:13.840 the wayside. And they weren't kind of progressive like the 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:16.520 stuff I was doing with Desmond Child and Rouge. They 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:19.880 were more like trying to be like what George Michael 0:30:19.920 --> 0:30:24.200 later became, like Blue Eyed Soul, and so you know, 0:30:24.320 --> 0:30:27.840 I didn't really know who I wasn't. Also, I was really, 0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:32.160 you know, struggling with you know the fact that well, 0:30:32.200 --> 0:30:35.800 how am I going to be an out artist? No 0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:40.120 women would follow me? Who the other ones that would 0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:44.400 buy records of a balladeer or kind of romantic figure? 0:30:45.040 --> 0:30:47.400 And I remember by then I was already twenty six, 0:30:48.280 --> 0:30:51.920 so I just didn't I didn't know who I was, 0:30:52.120 --> 0:30:55.920 and I was very lost. And then remember all my 0:30:56.000 --> 0:30:59.600 friends were dying of AIDS and I was terrified, you know, 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:03.360 that I would be next. So had you been promiscuous? 0:31:04.000 --> 0:31:07.680 Not really, but you know, not even people that just 0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:10.960 had boyfriends or you know, they would get infected. No, 0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:13.360 I know, we all know a lot of people. The 0:31:13.480 --> 0:31:15.240 husband you have, now, how long have you been together 0:31:15.280 --> 0:31:18.400 with him? Thirty two years? Okay, let's park that for 0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:20.640 a second. You work for Bob Crew for two weeks 0:31:20.680 --> 0:31:23.680 for two years? How does it end with Bob Crew? Well, 0:31:23.720 --> 0:31:26.600 when my singles didn't take off, I think it was 0:31:26.960 --> 0:31:29.920 disappointing for him, you know, and disappointing for me. And 0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:35.240 I was also I mean, I remember, um, we're writing 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:40.440 a song, and remember he wrote Lady Marmalade, so he 0:31:40.560 --> 0:31:43.680 was lucky with the word lady, and so we're writing 0:31:43.760 --> 0:31:48.480 something that had you know, baby maybe, and then he said, 0:31:48.720 --> 0:31:53.000 we'll sing lady. I said I can't. I can't sing lady. 0:31:53.280 --> 0:31:56.040 I mean, even if I'm not out, I'm just not 0:31:56.040 --> 0:31:59.760 not gonna sing lady. Ironically, I later wrote a song 0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:06.920 with ar Smith called Dude looks like a little right right, Okay, okay, whatever, 0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:10.800 and and I just burst out crying no because he 0:32:10.880 --> 0:32:13.000 was like bearing down on me. He says, you know, 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.240 I don't know how I wrote all those hits without you, 0:32:16.240 --> 0:32:18.320 you know, and all this stuff. And I just like, 0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:22.960 like like droplets of tears were It's like that movie 0:32:23.000 --> 0:32:28.840 about the Little drummer, remember Whiplash, you know, right right right? 0:32:28.960 --> 0:32:31.480 I mean he was he was he was wonderful. He 0:32:31.600 --> 0:32:34.360 was never mean like that, but he was strong. And 0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.760 he said, you know this is bullshit. You know, you know, 0:32:37.960 --> 0:32:41.240 sing lady. And I said I just cannot sing lady. 0:32:41.400 --> 0:32:46.200 And so um he when I started like crying, and 0:32:46.240 --> 0:32:48.800 all the frustration and maybe all the sadness of all 0:32:48.840 --> 0:32:50.800 my friends had died or everything, I just broke down 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.520 and he came around. He gave me a hug and everything, 0:32:54.040 --> 0:32:57.400 and he was really like the you know, a father 0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:00.320 to me and um, and I think it was you know, 0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:05.520 I really felt like we had done our time. You know. 0:33:05.800 --> 0:33:09.360 It wasn't like I was being you know, disloyal, but 0:33:10.480 --> 0:33:12.640 it was like I couldn't go forward with him because 0:33:12.720 --> 0:33:16.640 I had all these other influences and feelings. And remember 0:33:16.680 --> 0:33:20.040 that punk music was in the air in New York 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:23.360 and the Cure and all of that and all of 0:33:23.400 --> 0:33:26.160 those things were in my brain too that did not 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:30.600 fit into his world. And so you know then you know, 0:33:30.640 --> 0:33:32.920 were part of ways. But I remember when I was 0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:36.320 producing Ricky Martin and I was doing strings in l 0:33:36.360 --> 0:33:38.200 A and he came to the session and he sat 0:33:38.400 --> 0:33:41.800 next to me, and uh, he was just like glowing, 0:33:41.880 --> 0:33:43.719 you know, just like so proud of me. You were 0:33:43.760 --> 0:33:52.280 protget Okay, when you were writing with him, did you 0:33:52.360 --> 0:33:56.920 both write lyrics and music? Yes, well I was playing 0:33:56.960 --> 0:34:00.360 the chords and kind of driving more than male lities, 0:34:00.440 --> 0:34:02.960 and he was more strong leaning on the lyrics. But 0:34:03.000 --> 0:34:07.280 I also was was it's hard keeping up with him, 0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:09.600 you know, just like now these days when I write 0:34:09.600 --> 0:34:11.359 with people, it's like it's hard for them to keep 0:34:11.440 --> 0:34:15.000 up with me because I already I wrote it. Oh, 0:34:15.000 --> 0:34:18.600 oh that's cool. That sounds really good. Okay, we'll sing that. 0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:21.320 You know, if you can, you do it. And also, 0:34:21.560 --> 0:34:23.800 you know you're inspired, so you don't want to hold 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:27.799 yourself back to listen to somebody's kind of Oh yeah, 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:29.840 well you have a nicer personality than me. I I 0:34:29.920 --> 0:34:32.600 can't handle that well. And you know, maybe why I 0:34:32.680 --> 0:34:41.200 work alone. So after Bob Crew, before bon Jovi, what's happening? Well, 0:34:41.239 --> 0:34:46.120 I mean I wrote a revolutionary song actually, which was 0:34:47.360 --> 0:34:50.719 a call I got from Jim Steinman and he was 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:55.040 producing Bonnie Tyler after he had already had Total Eclipse 0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:58.600 of the Heart and then he time, of course legendary 0:34:58.640 --> 0:35:02.120 working bad out of hell. Yes, and so he had 0:35:02.280 --> 0:35:08.040 written um um, total Eclipse of the Heart for Bonnie Tyler, 0:35:08.560 --> 0:35:09.920 and so he said, I want you to write me 0:35:09.960 --> 0:35:13.319 a song. Okay, did you know Jim Steinman. No, but 0:35:13.600 --> 0:35:17.720 Mike Winston did, and so it's Winston still your manager, 0:35:19.000 --> 0:35:22.799 and so you know he um. He said, Okay, this 0:35:22.880 --> 0:35:25.960 is what I want. I want the verses to sound 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:29.480 like Tina Turner. I want the B section to sound 0:35:29.520 --> 0:35:33.480 like the Police, Yeah, and then I want the chorus 0:35:33.520 --> 0:35:37.160 to sound like Bruce Springsteen. So I wrote this song 0:35:37.239 --> 0:35:39.319 called if You're a Woman and I was a man, 0:35:40.440 --> 0:35:43.560 and it started out with the chorus all a capella, 0:35:43.800 --> 0:35:47.359 you know, and um, it went, if you were a 0:35:47.400 --> 0:35:51.600 woman and I was a man, would it be so hot? 0:35:52.200 --> 0:35:56.360 To understand? That? A hot? It's a hot and you 0:35:56.520 --> 0:36:00.480 do what you can? If you were a woman and 0:36:00.600 --> 0:36:03.080 I was a man, do do do do do do 0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:07.960 do right? And I was playing, uh, you know, I 0:36:08.239 --> 0:36:11.839 I love that these dreams and Billy Jean at that time, 0:36:11.880 --> 0:36:15.000 so I was came up with a variation, you know, 0:36:15.200 --> 0:36:19.040 and the song completely went, you know, from style to 0:36:19.440 --> 0:36:24.480 from the style, and so she she had it as 0:36:24.480 --> 0:36:27.279 a hit only in one country, France. Okay, just so 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.640 I know the uh you wrote it? He didn't get 0:36:30.640 --> 0:36:33.600 any co writing credit, He said, you wrote it. So 0:36:33.680 --> 0:36:38.000 I solely wrote the song. So it was a hit 0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.880 in France. And so when I went to write with 0:36:40.920 --> 0:36:44.520 bon Jovi, you know, I was piste off because I 0:36:44.600 --> 0:36:48.279 knew that I had a hit chorus. And so when 0:36:48.280 --> 0:36:51.000 I had the title, I came in with the title 0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:54.160 you give love a bad name? Where'd you get that from? Wait? 0:36:54.360 --> 0:36:56.800 Just one second, When you wrote the hit for Bonnie Tyler, 0:36:56.800 --> 0:36:59.560 how long did it take you to write it? Well, 0:37:00.360 --> 0:37:02.160 it took me a long time because I was trying 0:37:02.200 --> 0:37:05.480 to engineer and record everything myself. Okay, let let me 0:37:05.480 --> 0:37:07.600 ask you a different questions. Are you the type of 0:37:07.640 --> 0:37:12.600 person uh where it happens very fast or you get 0:37:12.600 --> 0:37:15.799 the idea and then it's developed faster or slow? How 0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:17.719 do you do it? Or you do it differently every time? 0:37:18.760 --> 0:37:21.480 Usually these days it usually takes me two days to 0:37:21.520 --> 0:37:23.680 write a song, co write a song with folks that 0:37:23.719 --> 0:37:27.360 are on my level of writing, okay, And by that time, 0:37:27.960 --> 0:37:30.040 if someone could take the demo right into the studio 0:37:30.080 --> 0:37:32.759 and just cut it just okay. So you walk into 0:37:32.760 --> 0:37:36.279 the house, Jon bon Jovi's on the phone, Richie takes 0:37:36.280 --> 0:37:39.120 you back downstairs, and you have you gave love a 0:37:39.160 --> 0:37:42.000 bad name from where I just came up with it 0:37:42.040 --> 0:37:44.960 because Bob had told me, had taught me how to 0:37:45.360 --> 0:37:50.239 write songs where the title had irony right, you know? 0:37:50.520 --> 0:37:53.640 And so I mean, were you just that the title 0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:55.920 comes to you in a shower or were you working 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.600 hard to come up with something. I was preparing for 0:37:59.719 --> 0:38:04.480 my session and then I thought, well, you give love 0:38:04.840 --> 0:38:09.720 a bad name. Love bad opposites and already the tension 0:38:09.719 --> 0:38:14.239 of the opposite. You're curious, what is what's you know? 0:38:14.480 --> 0:38:19.040 Heavens on fire? Um, I was made for loving you. 0:38:19.200 --> 0:38:22.840 That's not so much. But uh, I hate myself for 0:38:22.920 --> 0:38:26.799 loving you. How can we be lovers if we can't 0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:30.880 be friends? You know? It goes on and on. Uh. 0:38:30.920 --> 0:38:35.960 And I've been really successful with with that technique. Okay, 0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:38.560 So now you're in the basement with Richie. What happens? 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:41.640 So Richie brings me a glass of water, then he 0:38:41.680 --> 0:38:43.480 brings me a cup of coffee, and John still on 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:47.120 the phone. So finally he comes down and um, you know, 0:38:47.480 --> 0:38:49.759 you know that you were talking and this and that, 0:38:50.040 --> 0:38:52.239 and I pull out the title you give Love a 0:38:52.280 --> 0:38:54.680 Bad Name. And that was my first glimpse of the 0:38:54.760 --> 0:38:59.160 billion dollar smile. It was like it was dark down there, 0:38:59.200 --> 0:39:01.959 but when that's mile head, it was like the room 0:39:02.040 --> 0:39:05.720 lit up. It was like, oh my god, he's a star, 0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:09.760 look at him. And so he had a song called 0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:13.719 We're talking about Richie Now John, Wait, wait, wait, just 0:39:13.880 --> 0:39:18.479 to be yea yeah, and we taught chichat. Then John 0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:20.960 finally comes down and he says, he was like, okay, 0:39:20.960 --> 0:39:24.600 what do you gott I got this title, and he 0:39:25.040 --> 0:39:28.960 his face just lit up, and so I was like, 0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:34.319 and you know, so he had a song on a 0:39:34.360 --> 0:39:37.719 previous album called Shot through the Heart, and he's not 0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:40.560 wanting to let a good hook go to waste either, 0:39:41.320 --> 0:39:44.120 so he threw down shot through the Heart and you 0:39:44.200 --> 0:39:46.319 to blame. And then the three of us said, you 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:48.320 give love a bad name. And that was our first 0:39:48.960 --> 0:39:53.280 three fists in the air, you know, like high five moment. 0:39:54.040 --> 0:39:59.200 And uh. Then I started. I started contributing my hook 0:39:59.400 --> 0:40:00.920 from if You a Woman and I was a man 0:40:01.520 --> 0:40:04.000 because I just felt like, you know, I had that 0:40:04.120 --> 0:40:07.520 you know, kind of Jersey feeling right like because of 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.759 the night. I gotta tell you funny story about Springstey night. 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:14.160 I met him only one time and I said, hey, 0:40:14.160 --> 0:40:18.759 thanks for all those hits I wrote, and he just 0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:23.719 fell on the floor laughing because that, you know, that 0:40:23.880 --> 0:40:27.319 upward thing, like because the night and everything and so 0:40:27.480 --> 0:40:31.880 um so uh and so I I started playing again 0:40:31.920 --> 0:40:34.960 that do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do 0:40:34.960 --> 0:40:37.960 Do Do Do Do Do Do on the piano, and 0:40:38.000 --> 0:40:41.000 I and Richie's was like, no, hey man, no, that's 0:40:41.040 --> 0:40:44.520 that's like that's like Billy Jean that's like Michael Jackson stuff, 0:40:44.560 --> 0:40:48.120 I said, played on guitar, but like do it like chugs, 0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:54.080 like tight chugs. And then he went to John's second time, 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:58.520 face lit up and the song just like flowed right out, 0:40:58.640 --> 0:41:01.680 right out, and then all of those lyrics that could 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:04.919 not have been you know, I could not have been 0:41:04.920 --> 0:41:08.920 in that session without Bob Crewe on my shoulder, you know, 0:41:09.640 --> 0:41:12.640 you know, blood red nails on her fingertips, you know, 0:41:12.800 --> 0:41:16.960 all those descriptions that he was so good at, you know, 0:41:17.520 --> 0:41:20.440 creole lady marmalade, you know all of that. You know 0:41:21.440 --> 0:41:25.080 that's all built in, you know, to the that song 0:41:25.120 --> 0:41:28.840 and many others. Okay, so you'll write that song. Is 0:41:28.840 --> 0:41:32.319 it all written that day? Yeah? Okay? Was that the 0:41:32.360 --> 0:41:34.640 only song that day? Or yes, that was the only thing? Okay. 0:41:35.040 --> 0:41:39.040 So then they were so happy that then they called 0:41:39.160 --> 0:41:41.359 for another session. This time we did in New York City, 0:41:41.400 --> 0:41:44.520 and I borrowed an apartment that belonged to a friend 0:41:44.520 --> 0:41:48.120 of mine, Duck Schneider, And it was on twenty third 0:41:48.239 --> 0:41:51.840 Street or two street off Eighth Avenue, and it was 0:41:51.920 --> 0:41:53.880 just like this walk up and this and that, and 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:58.480 there was this big old you know, broken down upright 0:41:58.520 --> 0:42:02.600 piano and where we wrote living on a Prayer? Okay, 0:42:02.600 --> 0:42:06.439 who wrote Johnny were used to working on the docks? Well, 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:14.200 well that's the whole thing everybody brought there, stick to 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:17.600 to the session. But because of the time that I 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:20.320 lived with Maria on the Upper East Side where it 0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:23.200 was one of the most beautiful times, and she worked 0:42:23.320 --> 0:42:26.080 as a waitress at a place called Once upon a Stove, 0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:29.040 and she was a singing waitress. So all the singing 0:42:29.040 --> 0:42:32.840 waiters and waitresses had like fake names. So hers was 0:42:32.920 --> 0:42:36.680 Gina Velvet. So then everybody, we all just started calling 0:42:36.680 --> 0:42:39.480 her Gina, you know, because she reminded us of Gina 0:42:39.520 --> 0:42:44.160 Lila Bridgeta. And so I can I said, you know, um, 0:42:45.360 --> 0:42:48.879 the story of Johnny and Gina and Johnny because that's 0:42:48.920 --> 0:42:52.200 my original name. So I was sneaking myself into the song, 0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:55.920 and john said, I can't sing Johnny. People think I'm 0:42:55.960 --> 0:43:00.279 singing about myself. My name's Johnny. Was like Tommy. It 0:43:00.360 --> 0:43:02.399 was a song alike, and that's how Tommy and Gina 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:06.239 was born. Okay, And then on that album, didn't you 0:43:06.280 --> 0:43:09.680 co write one more song? Three more? Okay? Well, it 0:43:09.800 --> 0:43:11.520 was like you give love a bad name? Living on 0:43:11.640 --> 0:43:15.640 a Prayer and then um, there were two others. Right, Okay, 0:43:15.680 --> 0:43:18.759 how long after you write those songs do they cut 0:43:18.800 --> 0:43:24.480 them in Vancouver? Months? Like next month. I mean they 0:43:24.480 --> 0:43:28.759 were like hustling. They had fifty songs and uh. One 0:43:28.800 --> 0:43:32.960 of the great things that they did, they like invented 0:43:33.040 --> 0:43:36.920 poloing or something. They would get all their friends, brothers 0:43:36.920 --> 0:43:39.720 and sisters from their high schools to all go into 0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:42.879 this little theater and then they play one song after 0:43:42.960 --> 0:43:46.200 the other and the kids would kind of like with 0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:48.640 their applause, they would judge which ones they liked better. 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:51.120 They would play them live or player recording recording played 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:53.799 the demos and they were like, okay, what do you 0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:56.200 think of that one? You know, it's like but when 0:43:56.480 --> 0:44:00.480 one was special, then they'd go crazy. They cut that one. 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:05.000 So because John was serious about it's like, kids have 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.440 to pick this record, kids have to want this record. 0:44:08.920 --> 0:44:11.160 It has to be what they want. And he was 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:14.799 a kid himself, he's two and so these kids were 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:18.400 almost his age. So it was like, uh, really, And 0:44:18.480 --> 0:44:20.600 I went to one of those sessions and it was great. 0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:23.959 But they they wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote 0:44:23.960 --> 0:44:26.600 and wrote to get those songs. I mean, I think 0:44:26.680 --> 0:44:30.520 one of the songs that we wrote for that UM 0:44:30.680 --> 0:44:33.520 for Slippery was a song called We All Sleep Alone. 0:44:34.920 --> 0:44:40.840 But John felt it was too um passive or feminine almost, 0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:42.680 and it's you know, we All Sleep Alone. It's like 0:44:44.120 --> 0:44:49.120 it had more gravitas when Share sang it because of 0:44:49.160 --> 0:44:52.720 her history and all that. And Um I was asked 0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:55.920 by John Kloner to produce Share because of my success, 0:44:56.520 --> 0:45:01.960 and so UM I had them co produced We All 0:45:01.960 --> 0:45:05.759 Sleep Alone and another song that was my from my childhood, 0:45:05.840 --> 0:45:09.640 Bang Bang, and I had gone down to Palm Springs 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:13.760 to have Sunny bano I'll write an extra verse because 0:45:13.960 --> 0:45:17.719 that song originally was two minutes long. So he was 0:45:17.800 --> 0:45:20.200 so gracious and he you know, I went down there 0:45:20.200 --> 0:45:23.759 and I didn't contribute anything. I just like he did it. 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:26.480 And then I went back and I cut it and 0:45:26.800 --> 0:45:28.839 we decided, you know, I wanted to do something. So 0:45:28.880 --> 0:45:34.880 it was heavy metal with that song. So and UM 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:38.399 that was you know, you know that's when Richie mit 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:44.840 Share and you know that became tabloid heaven and UM. 0:45:44.880 --> 0:45:50.320 So you know, that was like a wonderful time because 0:45:50.360 --> 0:45:52.600 you know, we had written these extra songs and so 0:45:52.880 --> 0:45:56.520 you know, I think we we had another song um 0:45:56.520 --> 0:46:00.480 that was cut by a Canadian band that they and cut. 0:46:00.880 --> 0:46:03.520 How did you feel about them leaving some of your 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:08.120 songs off the record? I was happy they had one. Okay, 0:46:08.160 --> 0:46:10.840 So they go to Vancouver, they cut the record. Do 0:46:10.920 --> 0:46:13.880 you go to Vancouver? Went to Vancouver to do the 0:46:14.000 --> 0:46:17.640 last minute tweaking of the lyrics? Okay? And how long 0:46:17.680 --> 0:46:21.200 were you in Vancouver for maybe like four or five days? Briefly? 0:46:21.600 --> 0:46:25.000 How much did Bruce Fairburn contribute? I was never in 0:46:25.040 --> 0:46:27.879 the room when he was producing, so this I had 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:30.640 to like wait till the end of the night, and 0:46:30.680 --> 0:46:33.960 then they'd show up back at the apartments that they had, 0:46:34.040 --> 0:46:38.279 and then after that we'd go to some strip joint. Right. 0:46:38.440 --> 0:46:41.320 So was it as wild as they said it was? 0:46:41.040 --> 0:46:44.000 It was wild, but it was normal. Why right? Okay? 0:46:44.040 --> 0:46:47.799 You know, So were you happy with Fairburn's production? I 0:46:47.840 --> 0:46:52.520 couldn't imagine them better, and they brought them to life 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:56.040 like beyond my wildest dreams. And then later, of course, 0:46:56.120 --> 0:46:59.760 when I was writing with Arrowsmith, same thing. He brought 0:46:59.840 --> 0:47:03.399 the those songs like to a whole other level. I mean, 0:47:03.440 --> 0:47:07.000 that's one of the biggest tragedies in music that we 0:47:07.120 --> 0:47:12.920 lost him, And you know, it's not that often that 0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:16.040 I'm you know, listening to a song that I wrote 0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:20.880 that didn't turn out well. You know, I'm usually producing 0:47:21.000 --> 0:47:23.680 these days of songs that I write. But you know, 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:28.640 he like topped it, and that showed in a way 0:47:28.719 --> 0:47:33.239 that it's like sometimes having an objective person come in 0:47:33.880 --> 0:47:39.080 can really, you know, be so much better. And a 0:47:39.120 --> 0:47:42.799 good example is I wrote a song with Antonina Our 0:47:42.880 --> 0:47:47.520 Motto and Tim James Rock Mafia called Beautiful Now, and 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:51.359 they took it to Z and I mean it was 0:47:51.400 --> 0:47:54.920 the same song and everything, but what Z did to it, 0:47:55.239 --> 0:47:57.279 he brought it to a whole other level. And I 0:47:57.280 --> 0:48:00.279 couldn't have been more pleased. So when you work with 0:48:00.360 --> 0:48:03.880 people that have taste and know what they're doing, they're 0:48:04.080 --> 0:48:07.680 not going to create something that's bad. Okay, so the 0:48:07.800 --> 0:48:11.560 record is done. Do you have any idea it's gonna 0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:15.440 be the monster that it is? Slippery went went No. 0:48:15.680 --> 0:48:17.759 I just thought there was just like another band from 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:21.080 New Jersey. I knew we had some good songs, and 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:23.799 I didn't. I had no idea. But you know, it's 0:48:23.800 --> 0:48:26.319 like one of those things Bob Crewe would always talk 0:48:26.360 --> 0:48:29.400 about what is a star and you look up in 0:48:29.400 --> 0:48:31.239 the sky and you see this extra bright star and 0:48:31.280 --> 0:48:33.239 then later you find out, well, no, those were ten 0:48:33.320 --> 0:48:37.000 stars all lined up. So he said, okay, first you 0:48:37.080 --> 0:48:41.399 have the masthead, which is the actual person, then the song, 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:47.520 then the management or the production than the management, the 0:48:47.600 --> 0:48:51.640 pr guy, the record company, how much money they put 0:48:51.640 --> 0:48:56.120 into it, dada. And when they all line up, you know, 0:48:56.400 --> 0:49:02.160 and someone's in their moment, fantastic things can happen, and 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:07.880 that's really rare, and and you know, I've been part 0:49:07.880 --> 0:49:11.680 of some of those moments, and so I think the 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:16.520 key to begin with is that the song has to 0:49:16.640 --> 0:49:20.080 really fit the arc type of the person singing it 0:49:20.640 --> 0:49:22.520 in a very deep way. And I learned that from 0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:26.359 my acting coach, Sondra Secat, because when she would be 0:49:26.400 --> 0:49:30.600 analyzing scripts and characters and trying to merge an actor 0:49:30.800 --> 0:49:34.719 into a part, like trying to really establish, well, what 0:49:34.920 --> 0:49:37.400 is the arch type of the actor just as a person, 0:49:37.440 --> 0:49:40.520 what's the art type of the character. The closer you 0:49:40.520 --> 0:49:43.400 can get some somebody to be the same thing, the 0:49:43.480 --> 0:49:46.680 stronger the performance is going to be. Because we're hardwired. 0:49:47.160 --> 0:49:49.799 Just like thinking there's a snake in the corner, we're 0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:56.719 hardwired wired to recognize universal archetypes from history. So you know, 0:49:56.800 --> 0:49:59.520 so I always explained this. So you have an arch 0:49:59.560 --> 0:50:04.120 type John bon Jovi, he's like the warrior, you know, 0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:09.120 He's he's like the guy next door. He's all sunshine 0:50:09.400 --> 0:50:13.600 and like go and fight for the cause. And then 0:50:13.640 --> 0:50:20.400 you have the devil and that's Alice Cooper, the dark 0:50:21.400 --> 0:50:25.319 you know, and so all those you know, archetypes are 0:50:25.360 --> 0:50:29.239 within everybody, and we love to see them outside of ourselves. 0:50:29.239 --> 0:50:32.160 Like just like in tribes, they wore masks and they 0:50:32.200 --> 0:50:36.920 played characters because it's fulfilled something inside us. That's what 0:50:37.000 --> 0:50:40.200 I believe. So when I work with the people that 0:50:40.239 --> 0:50:43.160 are trying to find themselves, I try to like, let's 0:50:43.200 --> 0:50:46.960 get down to, like what's your arc type? Who are you? 0:50:46.960 --> 0:50:50.359 You know, there was always Venus, and then there was 0:50:50.840 --> 0:50:54.239 Gene Harlow, and then there was Marilyn Monroe. Then there 0:50:54.280 --> 0:51:04.120 was Gwen Stefani. Right, who's Medusa, you know, Joan Crawford, Madonna, 0:51:04.520 --> 0:51:08.279 Lady Gaga, she actually wears snakes on you know. So 0:51:08.480 --> 0:51:12.600 when somebody's like close and there's it's so fulfilling, like 0:51:12.719 --> 0:51:16.680 silence of the lamps, like the serial killer, we just 0:51:16.719 --> 0:51:19.720 can't wait to see him back on the screen. So 0:51:20.160 --> 0:51:22.600 I always bear that in mind. And usually when you 0:51:22.800 --> 0:51:25.440 when you have an instinct like that, all of a sudden, 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:27.799 the person starts to find themselves because what happens is 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:31.520 they get signed because maybe this kid looks like Justin Bieber, 0:51:31.920 --> 0:51:35.480 and then the competing label thinks, well, he's got the 0:51:35.560 --> 0:51:39.399 Justin Bieber hair do and maybe the same kids will 0:51:39.480 --> 0:51:43.879 like him too. So much happens like that, and they think, 0:51:43.920 --> 0:51:46.640 well sometimes and it can work sometimes. You know, you 0:51:46.680 --> 0:51:49.759 have the Beatles and you have the Monkeys, right and 0:51:49.840 --> 0:51:55.080 so um, that's not being an artist. And I always 0:51:55.120 --> 0:51:57.400 try to tell the people I work with it's like, 0:51:59.239 --> 0:52:01.520 don't you want occur real? Like Shade, there's no one 0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:04.719 like that. She can make a record every eight years 0:52:04.719 --> 0:52:07.839 and it's a hit. She doesn't care because she's living 0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:09.960 her life, and then she writes about it and in time, 0:52:10.800 --> 0:52:15.520 those little strands become what she offers. I mean, you 0:52:15.520 --> 0:52:19.239 want people to come to a market that's only you. 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:23.040 That's the best kind of career to have, and then 0:52:23.080 --> 0:52:26.839 it's forever and then you're not you know, you're not 0:52:27.800 --> 0:52:33.239 chasing empty dreams. And you know that's the thing that's 0:52:33.239 --> 0:52:36.359 not taught. I mean, for the last thirty years we've 0:52:36.360 --> 0:52:40.400 had the arts pulled from the schools. Where does somebody 0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:44.880 even see a picture of a Michelangelo or anything in 0:52:45.040 --> 0:52:49.880 public schools out there? How do they start to build 0:52:50.040 --> 0:52:54.000 the feeling of like, oh, that's my place in this world. 0:52:54.600 --> 0:53:01.560 I'm an artist, I'm here too, you know, reflect my 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:07.000 times and also something deeper, innate that I have to 0:53:07.080 --> 0:53:11.240 do for my own evolution as a person. Those thoughts 0:53:11.239 --> 0:53:13.880 don't come into things. It's like, Okay, I love that 0:53:13.880 --> 0:53:16.719 beat from that song. Pull up that beat, Come on, 0:53:16.800 --> 0:53:19.640 come on, pull up the beat. Let's just put the 0:53:19.719 --> 0:53:23.000 chords from this other song. And but what are they 0:53:23.000 --> 0:53:27.239 talking about there? Okay, let's flip it and make it 0:53:27.960 --> 0:53:31.560 something like that. And okay, yeah, you might get the 0:53:31.600 --> 0:53:35.160 song cut. But does it change the course of pop music? 0:53:35.800 --> 0:53:41.160 Does it matter? Does it does it heal the world? 0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:46.600 Or do something you know that's necessary for the evolution 0:53:46.680 --> 0:53:49.040 of humanity or or a plan. I mean, those sounds 0:53:49.080 --> 0:53:51.840 like really grand things. Let's happen. Forget about humanity, the 0:53:51.880 --> 0:53:55.920 evolution of that person. He chooses that career so he 0:53:55.960 --> 0:54:00.120 can bring something out that he desperately has to say 0:54:00.840 --> 0:54:04.279 they're so rare people that are authentic. I could go 0:54:04.320 --> 0:54:06.839 on and on about this, and you articulated brilliantly, and 0:54:06.840 --> 0:54:09.240 you give me insight. Let me go to a nitty 0:54:09.280 --> 0:54:13.960 gritty that really does not square with that, but it's reality. Okay, 0:54:14.040 --> 0:54:17.759 you've had a lot of success on every level. If 0:54:17.760 --> 0:54:21.840 you're following your dream, frequently in the arts, you're starving. 0:54:22.440 --> 0:54:26.120 Many people are unwilling to starve and so therefore they 0:54:26.200 --> 0:54:34.280 never developed their artistry. What is the key to perseverance? Well, 0:54:35.000 --> 0:54:38.080 I know because like we were so poor, and my 0:54:38.160 --> 0:54:43.000 mother was kind of like Blanche Dubois Cuban, you know, 0:54:43.800 --> 0:54:47.279 like poet, but she was also had a hustle that 0:54:47.360 --> 0:54:51.560 was like Angelica Houston and the Grifters. She dressed me 0:54:51.640 --> 0:54:54.440 up in a little suit and we she she had 0:54:54.480 --> 0:54:57.160 one dress, and we go to a cocktail party and 0:54:57.239 --> 0:55:00.400 we would troll that cocktail party for a millionaire. Uh 0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:04.200 that would you know see a built in family ready 0:55:04.239 --> 0:55:07.600 to make him look good. Because my mother was very beautiful. 0:55:08.360 --> 0:55:12.520 She wasn't successful at it. But the hustle Okay, now 0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:16.400 you say this, you say that, so there's a hustle 0:55:16.640 --> 0:55:20.480 when you when you're born poor, you know, but I 0:55:20.520 --> 0:55:24.160 think there's something also that people know in certain genres. 0:55:24.520 --> 0:55:30.640 Who's real, who's cool, what's what's what has it? And 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:36.040 it's you can't you can't fool people. I agree with everything. Well, 0:55:36.120 --> 0:55:38.919 let's park that, but the hustle has to be there, 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:45.000 not only outwardly to connect the dots, absolutely inwardly. Inwardly 0:55:45.120 --> 0:55:47.680 more important than the world comes to you if you're 0:55:47.719 --> 0:55:53.440 beaming with something that needs to be out there. Okay, 0:55:54.120 --> 0:55:57.680 that album comes out slippery. When webb, it's like an 0:55:57.719 --> 0:56:01.239 instant success, it's mega, goes on for the better part 0:56:01.280 --> 0:56:08.719 of two years. What do you think about? What about them? No? 0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:13.279 You know you're gonna get a big pay day? B 0:56:14.040 --> 0:56:18.759 is the phone start ringing off the hook? Well? I 0:56:18.880 --> 0:56:22.760 tried to make the most of it because remember that 0:56:23.160 --> 0:56:27.160 at that time and for decades before, I don't think ever, 0:56:27.600 --> 0:56:31.879 there was an out producer, so there was a real 0:56:31.960 --> 0:56:37.880 glass ceiling. So the bands would be okay being co 0:56:38.040 --> 0:56:43.960 writer because it was inequality there. But when you're the producer, 0:56:44.360 --> 0:56:48.279 you're the boss ultimately, and you have to get in 0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:52.120 there and dick slap these people into shape. And that's 0:56:52.560 --> 0:56:57.320 something that they just their homophobia or whatever couldn't permit 0:56:58.640 --> 0:57:01.520 a gay man to be the off of them. So 0:57:01.680 --> 0:57:03.839 for you know, I couldn't ever get one of those 0:57:03.840 --> 0:57:06.920 bands to let me be the producer, even though I 0:57:07.040 --> 0:57:10.040 heard albums they made with other producers like are you 0:57:10.200 --> 0:57:13.280 kidding me? I could have made a masterpiece here? What 0:57:13.280 --> 0:57:17.040 what is this? And so you know, they gave me 0:57:17.720 --> 0:57:22.360 the kind of what I call the weirdos, the androgynous people, 0:57:22.880 --> 0:57:26.640 soul l artists. Um, my first production was Ronnie Specter 0:57:27.560 --> 0:57:33.480 and then you know Share and Alice Cooper, Joan Jet. Okay, no, 0:57:33.800 --> 0:57:36.280 so okay, wait, wait who did you want to be? 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:38.400 Do you want to be a producer, a songwriter and 0:57:38.560 --> 0:57:42.080 artist or where what's the hierarchy there? No? I wanted 0:57:42.160 --> 0:57:44.800 to be a star myself. I wanted to be a superstar, 0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:49.680 but I didn't have the confidence because of my own issues, 0:57:50.320 --> 0:57:54.640 you know, and I was I was having so much 0:57:54.680 --> 0:57:56.800 success that I didn't want to stop it. I said, well, 0:57:56.960 --> 0:58:01.280 when I'm rich and then my mother's safe and we're 0:58:01.320 --> 0:58:05.040 all good, then I'll try then then then my moment 0:58:05.080 --> 0:58:07.880 will come. But so many things got in the way, 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:11.200 you know, and life got in the way, and I 0:58:11.240 --> 0:58:13.960 was just like I didn't in the end, I didn't. 0:58:14.080 --> 0:58:18.520 I'm very thin skinned. I didn't have the confidence, and um, 0:58:18.600 --> 0:58:24.320 so I think that. And also I was so good 0:58:24.360 --> 0:58:28.640 at looking outside of myself and pinpointing. Well, like I 0:58:28.680 --> 0:58:30.720 could see somebody, I could see the stars around them, 0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:33.200 and then I could see the dark cloud in front 0:58:33.240 --> 0:58:35.880 of the stars. And I was good at like scraping 0:58:35.920 --> 0:58:39.800 away stuff to get to how that person could shine. 0:58:40.440 --> 0:58:44.040 I couldn't do it for myself. And so, you know, 0:58:44.240 --> 0:58:46.480 I made an album that I'm not that happy about 0:58:46.520 --> 0:58:51.440 in nine called Discipline, and I was just so desperate 0:58:51.480 --> 0:58:54.160 to be a star that and I didn't have a 0:58:54.200 --> 0:58:58.800 producer and I didn't have anybody to dick slap me into, 0:58:58.840 --> 0:59:04.760 like what, And I wasn't out on that record. It 0:59:04.880 --> 0:59:08.040 was like a lie in a way, you know, I was. 0:59:08.480 --> 0:59:11.400 I think I'm a good singer, you know, I really, 0:59:11.760 --> 0:59:15.040 I think I've finally actually gotten good. You know. It 0:59:15.080 --> 0:59:18.760 took me a long time to really when singing connect 0:59:18.840 --> 0:59:20.680 and not try to think, well is it as good 0:59:20.720 --> 0:59:23.760 as this is that, because that's what goes through people's minds. 0:59:24.240 --> 0:59:26.840 So now when I'm you know, on the other side 0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:31.320 of the glass, you know, finally am my age I'm 0:59:31.360 --> 0:59:34.600 able to, like, you know, sing with soul, you know, 0:59:34.680 --> 0:59:38.360 but it took me a lot, very my whole life. Okay, 0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:41.680 you write the bon Jovie songs? Do you start or 0:59:41.760 --> 0:59:44.800 your managers start getting a lot of inquiries about people 0:59:44.840 --> 0:59:47.080 and the right. Yeah, they wanted my songs, but didn't 0:59:47.080 --> 0:59:49.560 want me to produce them. Okay, so what did you 0:59:49.640 --> 0:59:55.760 do well? Like, for instance, um, Mike great friend now 0:59:56.160 --> 0:59:58.640 Jason Flam he had a girl singer that he was 0:59:58.640 --> 1:00:01.040 trying to promote, and he had heard my song, just 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:04.400 like Jesse James, and wanted to cut it. And I 1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:07.240 had written it for Bonnie Tyler because I ended up 1:00:07.240 --> 1:00:11.919 producing Bonnie Tyland. That's a whole wonderful story. Um, but 1:00:12.000 --> 1:00:14.360 this was a song that Bonnie wouldn't sing because she 1:00:14.720 --> 1:00:17.360 was embarrassed. Her mother would think it was too suggestive, 1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:21.760 you know, walking into town slinging a gun, smalltown dude 1:00:21.800 --> 1:00:24.400 with a big city attitude. Just that was enough to 1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:28.000 say Bonnie didn't cut it. So he had heard it 1:00:28.080 --> 1:00:30.160 and wanted it desperately. I said, but I have to 1:00:30.200 --> 1:00:32.680 produce it, and no, no, no, you know, because we 1:00:32.680 --> 1:00:35.880 remember Atlantic Records and all that it was, you know, 1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:39.760 like that book right, you know, So I was you know, 1:00:39.960 --> 1:00:44.120 it's still like pushed down and um. And so I 1:00:44.160 --> 1:00:47.120 cut it with Share and we had a hit, you know, 1:00:47.880 --> 1:00:51.440 and um. But I think that that's how it was. 1:00:51.480 --> 1:00:54.160 It was like I have to produce it or you 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:58.240 don't get the song. So then okay, and then you know, 1:00:58.280 --> 1:01:02.360 look at with Alice Cooper, you know, I I produced 1:01:02.440 --> 1:01:05.800 that record Poison Poison, that we co wrote together, and 1:01:05.840 --> 1:01:08.760 I brought all the successful people I was working with 1:01:08.800 --> 1:01:12.280 at the time, Bon Joviero Smith, Jone jet Um, you know, 1:01:12.440 --> 1:01:15.040 and then he had Kick Winger and Kane Roberts and 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:18.320 all these people. They all contributed to the record and 1:01:19.040 --> 1:01:23.360 it was a wonderful theatrical piece and that song Poison. 1:01:23.480 --> 1:01:27.200 Listening back to it now, it's like, how I'm good. 1:01:29.520 --> 1:01:32.080 It was the first hitting Yeah, but just in terms 1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:35.400 of rock, it was like really evil sounding and it 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:39.919 was just like exactly what his art type needed to be. Okay, 1:01:39.960 --> 1:01:43.760 how'd you end up working with Aero Smith John Kalodner 1:01:43.800 --> 1:01:52.720 who had hired Meat for Share? So just so I know, 1:01:53.120 --> 1:01:55.480 do you had not made a record for Klanter before 1:01:55.480 --> 1:01:58.880 you got the producing gig Share? Yeah, And he called 1:01:58.960 --> 1:02:01.720 you do you were you like the first what did 1:02:01.720 --> 1:02:03.439 he call and say? Were you like the first call? 1:02:03.600 --> 1:02:07.200 Called Winston? So my manager, right new Field fielded everything 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:11.640 and um, and we had already you know, had success 1:02:11.680 --> 1:02:14.520 with Share. But he started seeing the success of bon 1:02:14.600 --> 1:02:17.479 Jovi and all that. So and we wait, wait wait, 1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:20.040 I mean he had had success with Cheer you have 1:02:20.200 --> 1:02:24.200 no no, no, no no. He hired me two work 1:02:24.240 --> 1:02:27.800 with Share, right, and I started delivering. Okay, that's what 1:02:27.920 --> 1:02:31.800 I wanted to know. Yeah, And so then I was 1:02:32.120 --> 1:02:36.360 having the number one with bon Jovi. So he he 1:02:36.400 --> 1:02:38.760 had made a record with them called Done with Mirrors, 1:02:39.000 --> 1:02:41.400 which was a total stiff, total stuff. And they were, 1:02:41.800 --> 1:02:44.520 you know, Tim Collins was really trying to get them all, 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:48.960 you know sober, and the wives sober, and the Roodie sober, 1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:51.520 and everybody was in meetings all the time, and you 1:02:51.560 --> 1:02:55.840 know it was like a cult. And so he made 1:02:55.840 --> 1:03:01.080 them meet with me. So I flew to Boston. I 1:03:01.160 --> 1:03:04.000 got brought to this big warehouse where they had the 1:03:04.040 --> 1:03:07.400 stage set up, you know, the mic stand with all 1:03:07.480 --> 1:03:13.000 the whatever multicolor scarps. But on the floor, you know, 1:03:13.200 --> 1:03:16.000 on the floor level, there were there was an army 1:03:16.040 --> 1:03:19.000 of guitars must have been a hundred guitars, all with 1:03:19.080 --> 1:03:25.680 their own straps that matched the guitar, like Sparkles, Tiger, Leopard, uh, 1:03:25.760 --> 1:03:32.760 you know, Fenders, get you know, Gibson's Unique Ones, Vintage ones, 1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:36.920 I mean all like it must have been like six rows, 1:03:37.480 --> 1:03:39.600 you know, with twenty guitars each. I mean, it was 1:03:39.640 --> 1:03:43.600 like crazy. And then on the side of the stage, 1:03:44.320 --> 1:03:46.600 I could see the sound man that did this, the 1:03:46.840 --> 1:03:49.760 stage sound on the side, and Joe was over there 1:03:50.080 --> 1:03:52.760 and they were running a loop. They were putting a 1:03:52.800 --> 1:03:56.600 guitar loop backwards right, and Stephen was the one that 1:03:56.680 --> 1:03:59.160 you know big you know warehouse doors. It opened up 1:03:59.200 --> 1:04:02.480 and you can see the coming through and Stephen comes 1:04:02.520 --> 1:04:05.840 in towards the door and he's you know, warm, and 1:04:05.880 --> 1:04:09.360 you know he's a people pleaser and just you know, 1:04:09.400 --> 1:04:11.800 it was nice. And so he brought me up. I 1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:15.840 still hadn't said anything, and he said, well, you know, 1:04:16.080 --> 1:04:19.280 what do you think about this? And so Joe played 1:04:19.280 --> 1:04:22.600 the loop and it was Antona and Data and Data 1:04:23.040 --> 1:04:25.360 an donna and remind me of boogie woogie or like 1:04:25.400 --> 1:04:28.480 whatever from back in the day, right like it was 1:04:28.520 --> 1:04:33.360 harmonica or something, and uh, Steven started singing it was 1:04:33.440 --> 1:04:38.480 like Danna and Donna cruising for the lightest data and 1:04:38.640 --> 1:04:42.640 Dada cruising for the latest. And then he stood back 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:44.840 and he says, what do you think of that? And 1:04:44.920 --> 1:04:50.040 I said, I think that's really bad and it was 1:04:50.120 --> 1:04:53.280 like that was my opening line, and Joe like crossed 1:04:53.280 --> 1:04:55.520 his arms and he was like looking at me. I 1:04:55.520 --> 1:04:58.600 mean he poses that way anyway, looking with his head back. 1:04:59.040 --> 1:05:04.560 I squinty, looking sideways and um, you know. Uh. Stephen 1:05:04.680 --> 1:05:08.240 was like trying to rescue the situation, and I said, 1:05:08.280 --> 1:05:10.720 you know, Van Halen wouldn't put that on the B 1:05:10.880 --> 1:05:14.720 side of their worst record, and they were like what. 1:05:14.800 --> 1:05:17.200 I just needed to capture their attention and kind of 1:05:17.880 --> 1:05:20.600 shocked them into taking me seriously or throw me out, 1:05:21.280 --> 1:05:23.200 you know, the throwing out could have it could have 1:05:23.280 --> 1:05:26.600 gone that way. And then Stephen, who's the people pleaser, 1:05:27.040 --> 1:05:31.120 said well, very sheepishly. When I first started singing that hook, 1:05:31.440 --> 1:05:34.760 I was singing, dude looks like a lady. I said, what, 1:05:35.840 --> 1:05:39.640 dude looks like a lady? And I said that's a 1:05:39.720 --> 1:05:43.200 hit title because it had the Bob Crue ring dude 1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:46.720 looks like a lady. It had everything, you know, cruising 1:05:46.800 --> 1:05:49.400 for the ladies. What sounds that strip top down in 1:05:49.400 --> 1:05:54.200 a cadillact. We've seen that story, right, David Lee Roth, 1:05:54.360 --> 1:05:58.840 the millions of those, you know, and um but and 1:05:58.920 --> 1:06:01.840 Joe said, yeah, but we don't know what that means. 1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:05.600 And I said, well, I'm gay, I know what that means. 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:09.840 And he goes and so so, you know, I said, 1:06:10.480 --> 1:06:14.080 bear with me, come on, let's tell the story. So 1:06:14.280 --> 1:06:16.160 we you know, I said, how did you come up 1:06:16.200 --> 1:06:19.920 with that? And he said, well, we had you know, 1:06:20.000 --> 1:06:22.480 gone after hours. You know, everybody's on, you know, in 1:06:22.520 --> 1:06:25.440 the program. So we were having our sodas and stuff 1:06:25.480 --> 1:06:28.200 at this bar and there was, you know, at the 1:06:28.320 --> 1:06:30.720 end of the empty bar, just sitting on the end 1:06:31.160 --> 1:06:36.960 was this vision of beauty, this giant blond, teased up 1:06:37.040 --> 1:06:41.560 hair and white skin and black nails and you know, 1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:46.800 curvy and all, you know, very sexy. And then uh 1:06:46.880 --> 1:06:49.320 and so they were all like drawing straws, you know, 1:06:49.920 --> 1:06:51.960 because they were all you know, married. But there was 1:06:52.000 --> 1:06:54.960 a single Roadie or something. Okay, go over there and 1:06:55.040 --> 1:06:59.800 say say hello. So at that moment she turns a 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:04.080 round and faces them, and it's Vince Neil of Motley Crewe. 1:07:05.320 --> 1:07:08.000 And that's when they were like, oh, that dude looks 1:07:08.000 --> 1:07:09.960 like a lady. That dude looks like a lady. Dude 1:07:09.960 --> 1:07:12.280 looks like a lady. And that's where he came up 1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:19.200 with it. So it's really funny because because because then 1:07:19.240 --> 1:07:22.320 I said, okay, so let's write the story. So the 1:07:22.360 --> 1:07:25.280 whole verses like, walked into a bar on the shore, 1:07:25.680 --> 1:07:28.840 her picture grace, the grime on the door. Could not 1:07:28.960 --> 1:07:32.640 have written that without Bob Crew, her picture, Grace, the grind, 1:07:32.720 --> 1:07:36.000 all the alliteration, bar on the shore, picture Grace, the 1:07:36.040 --> 1:07:39.080 grime on the door. And then Stephen threw and she 1:07:39.160 --> 1:07:42.280 was a long lost love at first bite whatever and so, 1:07:42.800 --> 1:07:44.880 which was a kind of confusing line because then it 1:07:44.960 --> 1:07:48.280 sounded like he had been with her before, and so 1:07:48.440 --> 1:07:50.120 I tried to stop it, but he loved the way 1:07:50.120 --> 1:07:53.880 the line sounded. He wouldn't change it. And so, so 1:07:54.360 --> 1:07:59.360 the fantastic thing about the song is that a normal 1:07:59.520 --> 1:08:02.200 band would have just like said, well, and then you know, 1:08:02.520 --> 1:08:05.560 I ran out of there, you know, because you know 1:08:05.760 --> 1:08:09.640 that's just too weird. But in this song, no, this 1:08:10.000 --> 1:08:14.400 the main character stays, you know, let me take a 1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:18.200 peep peek dear, you know, I like it, like it 1:08:18.240 --> 1:08:22.000 like it like that my funky lady, and so he 1:08:22.040 --> 1:08:25.920 doesn't run away. So the second verse, never judge a 1:08:26.000 --> 1:08:29.599 book by its cover or who are you gonna love 1:08:29.680 --> 1:08:35.320 by your lover? And if that isn't like LGBT acceptance, 1:08:35.680 --> 1:08:39.040 and it's like like, if it looks good, go for it, man. 1:08:39.479 --> 1:08:43.760 You know, you know, it's like don't you know, don't 1:08:43.800 --> 1:08:48.360 stop yourself from going with what you're feeling inside and 1:08:48.360 --> 1:08:51.000 and accept everybody and all that kind of stuff. Because 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:54.360 later on the song became controversial because it was like 1:08:54.439 --> 1:08:57.920 not politically correct us to say the word tranny or 1:08:58.240 --> 1:09:00.400 you know all you know, all this kind of stuff. 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:03.080 But you know, I think if you look at that 1:09:03.120 --> 1:09:05.920 second verse which they used and missus doubtfire and the 1:09:05.960 --> 1:09:10.800 broom dance, it's like a song of acceptance. And it 1:09:10.960 --> 1:09:14.760 was like everybody in the world got a smile when 1:09:14.760 --> 1:09:18.920 they heard it, and so it brought them back. And 1:09:18.960 --> 1:09:21.880 it's funny. Uh. A few years ago, when we were 1:09:21.960 --> 1:09:25.360 doing some work at our house, like the workman came 1:09:25.720 --> 1:09:28.680 came up to me and he said, you wrote with Aerosmith, 1:09:29.280 --> 1:09:34.160 you wrote my favorite song, Do a Naked Lady. It's 1:09:34.240 --> 1:09:38.880 like do a Naked that's what he here. That was 1:09:39.000 --> 1:09:41.720 his story in his head, you know. So I just 1:09:41.920 --> 1:09:44.439 got such a kick out of that. But when Stephen 1:09:44.680 --> 1:09:48.880 went to write his his autobiography, he spent like two 1:09:48.920 --> 1:09:51.719 our pages, two or three pages talking about the creation 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:53.920 of dude looks like a Lady. And he painted me 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:57.640 out to be like Juan Valdez. So well, he was Latino. 1:09:57.960 --> 1:10:01.120 He had a handlebar mustache like I was wanting. You know, 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:04.080 it's like like a worker from the fields. That was 1:10:04.120 --> 1:10:06.519 like whatever. First of all, I never had like a 1:10:06.600 --> 1:10:10.040 mustache on its own, not even in the seventies when 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:14.719 it was cool, like you know. And then um, then 1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:17.639 and then he said, well, you know I already had 1:10:17.640 --> 1:10:21.680 the song written, doesn't mention cruising for the ladies? And 1:10:22.040 --> 1:10:25.840 um um. You know, Desmond contribute a few little things 1:10:25.840 --> 1:10:29.439 to the verses, but you know, and you know, it's like, well, 1:10:29.479 --> 1:10:31.679 we just let him put his name on the song whatever. 1:10:32.880 --> 1:10:36.280 And so then Joe co Co writes his book with 1:10:36.360 --> 1:10:40.920 David Ritz and says, well, Desmond's the one who came 1:10:41.000 --> 1:10:43.360 up with dude looks like a Lady. We could not 1:10:43.479 --> 1:10:46.479 have written that song without that title. And it's like, 1:10:47.120 --> 1:10:51.920 wait a second, So I've co written my book with 1:10:52.000 --> 1:10:54.680 David Ritz and I set the record straight. But I 1:10:54.720 --> 1:10:57.240 was working with Joe and he was recording a song 1:10:57.320 --> 1:11:00.080 called Red, White and New in my studio Nashville, and 1:11:00.120 --> 1:11:02.120 I sat him down and one of my writers had 1:11:02.120 --> 1:11:05.600 written the song. Levi hummed, and so I sat him down. Okay, 1:11:05.640 --> 1:11:08.000 this is how we wrote the song. And I told 1:11:08.080 --> 1:11:11.960 him the story and he goes, oh, I like your 1:11:12.000 --> 1:11:15.920 story better than mine, but you wrote a book about it. 1:11:17.000 --> 1:11:19.559 So I'm gonna set there. Who are you gonna believe me? 1:11:20.360 --> 1:11:24.040 Are these you know rehab rockers? Man? Okay? Did you 1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:30.120 ever confront Tyler about it? That's who I'm talking about. Tyler. No, no, no, Tyler, 1:11:30.439 --> 1:11:32.759 like you know, said I like your story better than mine. 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:36.799 But it's like and to Joe, it's like I didn't 1:11:36.800 --> 1:11:39.120 come up with the title, Stephen did. It's like you 1:11:39.200 --> 1:11:42.040 got it all wrong, you guys, you know, but you 1:11:42.080 --> 1:11:44.200 know it all worked out and I'm going to set 1:11:44.240 --> 1:11:47.760 the record straight in my book. Okay, So you're right there. 1:11:48.439 --> 1:11:50.280 How long did it take you to write the record? 1:11:50.680 --> 1:11:53.760 Write the song? We wrote it that day, wrote it 1:11:53.840 --> 1:11:56.920 that day that day. What did Klodner say, because he 1:11:57.000 --> 1:11:59.960 was totally hands on. Well, they had to make the 1:12:00.040 --> 1:12:02.040 demo and whatnot, and I wasn't there when they did, 1:12:02.600 --> 1:12:05.240 so it took a while for him to finally hear 1:12:05.320 --> 1:12:08.120 the batch of songs. The next day, I walked in 1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:10.600 and Joe didn't come in. You know, he was like, 1:12:10.640 --> 1:12:14.720 I don't think he was comfortable, right, So, uh, no 1:12:14.760 --> 1:12:16.439 one was there, not even the roadies. And I go 1:12:16.479 --> 1:12:18.280 into that big thing and there was a little keyboard 1:12:18.800 --> 1:12:21.360 like in front of the stage like butt it up 1:12:21.439 --> 1:12:23.240 right to the to the wall of the state and 1:12:23.280 --> 1:12:26.040 the stage was above us and it was like a 1:12:26.080 --> 1:12:29.160 little Wilitzer and there was like a little bench and 1:12:29.200 --> 1:12:31.760 then he sat next to me and I, you know, 1:12:31.800 --> 1:12:34.240 I started in like I do kind of like tell 1:12:34.280 --> 1:12:36.200 me about your life. What have you been going through? 1:12:36.680 --> 1:12:39.599 Da da da da da, you know, trying to draw 1:12:39.680 --> 1:12:43.760 something out, and he said, well, I met this woman Teresa, 1:12:44.000 --> 1:12:46.960 and she really, you know, she saved me. I mean, 1:12:47.360 --> 1:12:49.799 I don't know what I was, just Tyler. This is Tyler. 1:12:50.000 --> 1:12:53.360 What I would be without her? You know, she's she's 1:12:53.439 --> 1:12:57.360 she's she's an angel, She's my angel. And then when 1:12:57.400 --> 1:13:00.559 he said the word angel, I saw those bloodubber lips 1:13:02.880 --> 1:13:06.960 and it was like Mick Jaggers saying angey real. And 1:13:07.000 --> 1:13:10.000 I said, oh my god, I have to get him 1:13:10.160 --> 1:13:13.439 to have those blubber lips just like just like Jagger 1:13:13.600 --> 1:13:17.920 saying angel. And so I talked him into, you know, 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:21.360 writing this song to Teresa, You're my Angel, come and 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:24.200 save me tonight. We wrote that song literally that was 1:13:24.240 --> 1:13:27.840 forty five minutes. And then, um, I mean it just 1:13:27.920 --> 1:13:32.479 like flowed just like that everything about it. And um, 1:13:32.640 --> 1:13:34.479 that song made it on the record and it was 1:13:34.560 --> 1:13:39.400 like their second single, and um, I don't I didn't 1:13:39.400 --> 1:13:42.879 get that much played and shows and stuff till recently. 1:13:42.880 --> 1:13:44.840 I don't know if they went back to it or not, 1:13:44.880 --> 1:13:46.600 but I did see a show where they did do it, 1:13:46.640 --> 1:13:50.960 but maybe that's because they knew I was there. But um, 1:13:51.000 --> 1:13:53.240 you know, it was like way more pop than they 1:13:53.280 --> 1:13:57.360 were comfortable with. And you know, I was really the 1:13:57.439 --> 1:14:02.320 first outside person to co with them, you know. And 1:14:02.320 --> 1:14:05.639 and I think I kind of like almost invented a 1:14:05.640 --> 1:14:10.000 career because before, you know, it was like not cool 1:14:10.479 --> 1:14:13.360 for for bands to write with outside people, but maybe 1:14:13.400 --> 1:14:15.800 they take a suggestion from a producer who would get 1:14:15.840 --> 1:14:19.160 their name on it, but for a professional songwriter to 1:14:19.240 --> 1:14:24.280 come in like a consultant and um, you know, uh, 1:14:24.400 --> 1:14:27.040 then do that that was not a career that was happening. 1:14:27.040 --> 1:14:30.759 And when people saw the success I was happening having 1:14:31.640 --> 1:14:34.280 you know, a lot of people that had tried to 1:14:34.320 --> 1:14:37.840 be stars or this or that jumped into that, you know, 1:14:37.960 --> 1:14:41.400 and started doing the same thing as me. And then 1:14:41.640 --> 1:14:44.120 I'd start to see their names, you know, like Mark 1:14:44.200 --> 1:14:47.640 Hudson and people like that appear on the same with 1:14:47.760 --> 1:14:50.360 the same bands that I was working with. Okay, let's 1:14:50.360 --> 1:14:53.800 go back to the beginning. So you're from Miami. Yeah, 1:14:53.960 --> 1:14:58.160 were you born in Miami? I was born in Gainesville, Florida. Okay, 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:00.960 your parents. You say you're father was Hungary and he 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:04.880 literally came from Hungary. Yes, But my mother was married 1:15:04.920 --> 1:15:10.520 to an American geologist and she went from Cuba two 1:15:11.520 --> 1:15:15.479 Ecuador and then Venezuela and lived in oil camps with 1:15:15.800 --> 1:15:20.160 you know, her husband, who was sixteen years older than her. 1:15:20.880 --> 1:15:23.439 And she's you know, she looked like an American movie star. 1:15:23.520 --> 1:15:26.080 She was kind of tall, so she didn't really fit 1:15:26.160 --> 1:15:30.040 in with other more Latina girls that were smaller and 1:15:30.040 --> 1:15:32.640 and all that. She and she was very kind of 1:15:34.439 --> 1:15:37.080 there was something about her that was androgynous, and so 1:15:37.920 --> 1:15:40.080 even though she was so beautiful, I mean, she would 1:15:40.320 --> 1:15:43.120 she would prefer talking to men. She would sit with 1:15:43.160 --> 1:15:46.679 their legs open, you know, like sit like a man 1:15:46.840 --> 1:15:49.720 or something like that. She was like that, and she 1:15:49.960 --> 1:15:55.280 was hanging around Tennessee williams Uh and people like that 1:15:55.360 --> 1:15:58.760 and the this is the late forties, early fifties in Havana. 1:15:59.120 --> 1:16:03.120 And so she she found this American and she thought 1:16:03.120 --> 1:16:05.240 it was her last chance. She was twenty three and 1:16:05.320 --> 1:16:08.360 everyone said she was going to be a spinster. So 1:16:08.439 --> 1:16:12.840 she marries this guy who really, you know, I don't 1:16:12.880 --> 1:16:15.400 think he knew what he was getting into because she 1:16:15.560 --> 1:16:21.760 was full of energy and laughter. And then um, he 1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:25.479 had his mother who was like um, Maggie Smith, who 1:16:25.520 --> 1:16:30.000 was an english woman from Manchester, England, and who didn't 1:16:30.040 --> 1:16:32.960 speak Spanish, and she didn't like my mother at all. 1:16:33.479 --> 1:16:36.720 So my mother was miserable, miserable, miserable, living in an 1:16:36.720 --> 1:16:40.400 oil camp in Venezuela. So on Wednesdays she would go 1:16:40.720 --> 1:16:43.360 on a ferry boat to the main little town, which 1:16:43.400 --> 1:16:45.719 is like the wild West, but there was a movie 1:16:45.800 --> 1:16:49.400 theater and there'd be an American film, so she'd go. 1:16:49.600 --> 1:16:52.400 And so one day she walked in the movie theater 1:16:52.479 --> 1:16:55.559 was empty, so she went and sat down and she 1:16:55.680 --> 1:17:00.320 it was National Velvet with Elizabeth Taylor. And then this 1:17:00.400 --> 1:17:02.840 man came in and sat next to her in the 1:17:02.880 --> 1:17:05.640 empty theater and just started looking at her. And he 1:17:05.680 --> 1:17:08.800 was handsome. He looked like Errol Flynn, a movie star, 1:17:09.000 --> 1:17:12.519 Carrie Grant or something like that. And so they went 1:17:12.560 --> 1:17:15.880 and had coffee and they began. Every Wednesday, she would 1:17:15.920 --> 1:17:18.920 go in and then they would hook up. And so 1:17:19.000 --> 1:17:22.360 in one of those I was conceived. And so when 1:17:22.400 --> 1:17:26.000 she just to be clear, is that your Hungarian father? Okay, 1:17:26.160 --> 1:17:28.320 what was he doing in Venezuela. He went in with 1:17:28.360 --> 1:17:33.320 immigrants that that we're all traveling around, you know, um 1:17:33.360 --> 1:17:37.680 because remember that Russia took over, so even you know, 1:17:37.760 --> 1:17:41.960 so he was hanging around with Jewish um families and 1:17:42.000 --> 1:17:44.880 he you know, he wasn't Jewish, but he was you know, 1:17:45.040 --> 1:17:51.200 like comfortable, you know, and they were all building businesses. 1:17:51.800 --> 1:17:55.960 And he started building oil platforms out of cement and 1:17:56.720 --> 1:18:04.360 that was his business. And so you know, so you know, 1:18:04.400 --> 1:18:06.760 in those days, remember if you went to town, you 1:18:06.760 --> 1:18:09.200 were a suit and tie and all of that is 1:18:09.320 --> 1:18:14.519 this is and I was conceived on her birthday, January 1:18:15.920 --> 1:18:20.519 I was born exactly nine months later. So one day 1:18:21.520 --> 1:18:24.880 she stopped coming and he would wait for that ferry boat, 1:18:24.920 --> 1:18:27.960 and then he'd wait the next Wednesday, and she wasn't coming. 1:18:28.000 --> 1:18:30.559 She wasn't coming, she wasn't coming, and he started getting 1:18:30.880 --> 1:18:33.280 like really uptight. He was really in love with her. 1:18:33.960 --> 1:18:36.200 So he takes the ferry boat to the other side, 1:18:36.200 --> 1:18:37.840 goes to the oil camp and they said, oh, no, 1:18:38.120 --> 1:18:41.000 they moved away. Where did they move We not allowed 1:18:41.040 --> 1:18:45.120 to give you that information. And so they had moved 1:18:45.120 --> 1:18:47.760 to Gainesville, Florida, and he got a job as a 1:18:47.800 --> 1:18:52.000 teacher at the Florida University Florida State University or whatever, 1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:55.760 and they had a dairy ranch. He bought a dairy ranch. 1:18:56.280 --> 1:19:02.519 This is my mother's husband, John Barrett. And so my father, 1:19:02.640 --> 1:19:06.320 who was desperate, went to Havana and from little clues 1:19:06.720 --> 1:19:10.479 that she had said in their time together, he tried 1:19:10.520 --> 1:19:13.519 to track her down. So he went to the Hotel 1:19:13.600 --> 1:19:18.240 Nacional and he looked across the barney, thought he sorry, 1:19:18.760 --> 1:19:21.960 ran up to her and um, it was her sister, 1:19:22.880 --> 1:19:26.800 because they were all very similar looking. And uh, she 1:19:26.960 --> 1:19:31.160 was at that time the mistress of the dictator Bautista, 1:19:31.760 --> 1:19:33.719 this is babe, and she was like the eight girl 1:19:33.720 --> 1:19:38.000 of Havana and um. So he gave her a letter 1:19:38.160 --> 1:19:40.720 on the stationary and she put it inside her own 1:19:40.800 --> 1:19:43.720 letter and sent it to Hathorne. And they went back 1:19:43.720 --> 1:19:45.920 and forth like that, first to Cuba, then to him, 1:19:45.960 --> 1:19:49.800 and you know, like that and uh. Then finally they 1:19:49.840 --> 1:19:53.000 agreed to meet in Miami Beach in a little hotel 1:19:53.240 --> 1:19:57.000 off of seventy one Street that ultimately was where kunan 1:19:57.120 --> 1:20:00.360 and was hiding, right was before he did the rassade thing. 1:20:01.160 --> 1:20:05.000 And that they were together six days and that was 1:20:05.080 --> 1:20:10.880 the only time we were ever a family. Really. Yeah, 1:20:10.920 --> 1:20:13.280 in those six days, he'd already been born. I was 1:20:13.280 --> 1:20:16.920 six months old, So I mean that whole process I got. 1:20:17.400 --> 1:20:20.960 So then he felt like he had convinced her that 1:20:21.000 --> 1:20:23.960 she would leave her husband because I had his child. 1:20:24.920 --> 1:20:27.960 And so she said, she said, okay, I'll do We'll 1:20:28.000 --> 1:20:29.960 do that. She said, come in thirty days to pick 1:20:30.040 --> 1:20:32.519 me up in the farm and and that will give 1:20:32.520 --> 1:20:35.360 me a chance to you know, deal with him and 1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:37.639 pack all my things and all this kind of stuff. 1:20:38.520 --> 1:20:41.960 So he went there and in a car that he 1:20:42.280 --> 1:20:45.920 rent a car, and then his brother was driving a 1:20:46.040 --> 1:20:50.120 U haul and they show up and she was like 1:20:50.320 --> 1:20:53.519 she still hadn't told her husband. She couldn't deal with it. 1:20:53.840 --> 1:20:57.880 She was like a wreck because she was afraid of 1:20:57.920 --> 1:21:03.960 what her family would think of her. And so he 1:21:04.080 --> 1:21:06.040 was there talking to her, and we had and the 1:21:06.120 --> 1:21:09.320 brother was taking pictures really cinematic and I'm like playing 1:21:09.320 --> 1:21:12.760 on the floor. And then the husband comes home and 1:21:12.760 --> 1:21:16.400 he's like, who are these men? And so she was 1:21:16.479 --> 1:21:19.360 like and tear She went into the house and she 1:21:19.479 --> 1:21:22.720 locked herself in the bathroom. And then um, you know, 1:21:23.400 --> 1:21:27.680 my biological father, Joe Marphy and Mr Barrett went for 1:21:27.720 --> 1:21:32.120 a long walk, and according to my father, he was like, 1:21:32.720 --> 1:21:34.719 because they had already been having a lot of trouble 1:21:34.800 --> 1:21:37.120 and everything, he said, okay, you know, take her, take 1:21:37.160 --> 1:21:40.640 the kid, just get out of here. But you know, 1:21:40.920 --> 1:21:46.200 my mother told a different story that she said, you 1:21:46.240 --> 1:21:47.880 can take her, but you have to leave the kid, 1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:51.200 which is an impossible thing, like he would never have said. 1:21:52.439 --> 1:21:57.800 So she refused to go, and so then they and 1:21:57.840 --> 1:22:03.760 then Mr Barrett told Uh Marphy, Joe Marphy that never 1:22:03.840 --> 1:22:06.320 to try to contact them again, to just leave and 1:22:06.400 --> 1:22:12.800 never never come back. So then he went back to Venezuela, heartbroken, 1:22:12.920 --> 1:22:19.679 and he married um Um Holocaust survivor, and they began 1:22:19.720 --> 1:22:23.400 their family and all of that, and then, uh, you know, 1:22:23.880 --> 1:22:26.479 eventually it didn't work out of course with Mr Barrett, 1:22:26.520 --> 1:22:32.040 so she moved to Miami and then she recontacted him, 1:22:32.080 --> 1:22:36.160 but he had already married. So it's like their their 1:22:36.160 --> 1:22:39.880 ships didn't cross. But when I when I didn't find 1:22:39.920 --> 1:22:44.680 out about this story until I had turned eighteen. Really yeah, 1:22:44.840 --> 1:22:48.360 so I thought the other guy was my father. So 1:22:48.400 --> 1:22:53.120 then when I was eighteen, my biological father insisted to 1:22:53.200 --> 1:22:56.400 tell me. So I was already living in Woodstock, I 1:22:56.400 --> 1:22:59.800 had dropped out of school, and I was, you know, 1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:04.240 working at Bearsville as the coffee boy and um making 1:23:04.280 --> 1:23:09.320 my first demo with Van Morrison's band and with Virgil 1:23:09.479 --> 1:23:12.720 night Child was going to ride High and we went 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:16.200 to see seymour Stein and he was the first executive. 1:23:16.280 --> 1:23:18.320 We we went down to New York and he just 1:23:18.360 --> 1:23:23.360 started Siren and so, uh, he said, meet me in 1:23:23.400 --> 1:23:25.280 New York. So I met him and it was like 1:23:25.320 --> 1:23:29.519 a Luke Skywalker moment. Says he said, do you know 1:23:29.880 --> 1:23:32.680 you know why I've always kind of come around and 1:23:32.720 --> 1:23:35.559 all that? And then then he says, because I am 1:23:35.640 --> 1:23:38.840 your father. You know, it was like it was like 1:23:38.880 --> 1:23:43.639 a bucket of ice cold water, and then everything made sense. 1:23:44.120 --> 1:23:46.880 And so from that moment on, he gave me money 1:23:46.920 --> 1:23:49.160 to be able to drive back to Miami because we 1:23:49.160 --> 1:23:54.080 were flat broke and um. Then he put me through college. 1:23:54.120 --> 1:23:56.240 I went to community college and I graduated from n 1:23:56.320 --> 1:24:00.560 y U. Really, yeah, okay, you're in school. Let's go 1:24:00.600 --> 1:24:03.880 back to green school. Your mother ever find another guy? Oh? 1:24:04.000 --> 1:24:07.320 She had many other men, okay, but none she married. 1:24:07.720 --> 1:24:11.640 She married some how did you feel about that? It 1:24:11.760 --> 1:24:16.000 was a terrible time. Remember we lived in the projects 1:24:16.000 --> 1:24:20.040 of Liberty City, and she was, you know, working, and 1:24:20.120 --> 1:24:22.639 she couldn't hold a job more than three weeks. And 1:24:23.080 --> 1:24:25.080 she worked at Burger King and she'd come home at 1:24:25.160 --> 1:24:28.840 night with these like whoppers that nobody ate. So we 1:24:28.880 --> 1:24:32.000 would take the tops and then throw away the bottoms 1:24:32.000 --> 1:24:34.800 and make one that was because it was they were 1:24:34.840 --> 1:24:37.679 like mushy, and that's how we that's when we'd eat, 1:24:37.720 --> 1:24:41.040 and you know, eleven'clock at night, and or it was 1:24:41.120 --> 1:24:43.920 cereal and milk and stuff like that. It was really 1:24:44.320 --> 1:24:49.040 poor and very dangerous place. But the beauty of all 1:24:49.120 --> 1:24:52.519 these things is that I was playing on the swing sets, 1:24:53.040 --> 1:24:56.760 you know, with you know, children of all races, and 1:24:56.760 --> 1:25:00.000 there was always the R and B station that was playing, 1:25:00.400 --> 1:25:03.759 and so I was listening to Aretha Franklin whistling pickt 1:25:03.760 --> 1:25:07.599 and all of these records that were different than what 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:10.919 would would hear on TV or all of that. So 1:25:10.920 --> 1:25:13.559 soul and all of that, it really got into into 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:16.479 my bones. Okay, you go to elementary school, you go 1:25:16.520 --> 1:25:19.360 to high school, you fit in you and outsider, what 1:25:19.439 --> 1:25:26.040 kind of I'm like. I went to my um, I 1:25:26.080 --> 1:25:28.800 was poor and all that, but I started growing. I 1:25:28.840 --> 1:25:34.120 started tending towards like the hippie and the spiritual cults 1:25:34.120 --> 1:25:38.000 and gurus and health food and you know all of 1:25:38.000 --> 1:25:43.120 that yoga and Rosa Christian Crucian and Sachia Nanda and 1:25:43.400 --> 1:25:46.000 I went through all of these things. And I would 1:25:46.040 --> 1:25:48.280 wear all white and then I would have like long 1:25:48.320 --> 1:25:51.360 hair and beads and sandals and stuff. And I went 1:25:51.800 --> 1:25:55.360 to my high school reunion my fort and people came 1:25:55.439 --> 1:25:57.200 up to me and well, first of all, no one 1:25:57.240 --> 1:26:00.840 invited me to any parties, nothing. And I started hanging 1:26:00.880 --> 1:26:05.160 around with the weirdos, the people that would eventually finally 1:26:05.200 --> 1:26:09.200 realized they were gay or artists are just like offbeat, right, 1:26:09.840 --> 1:26:13.719 and so, um, that's where I met Virgil, and so 1:26:14.320 --> 1:26:17.920 I moved to a hippie house in Coconut Grove called 1:26:17.920 --> 1:26:24.200 the Maya Family, and um, all of these things, and uh, 1:26:24.320 --> 1:26:28.719 I was never part of the rich kids, and so 1:26:29.240 --> 1:26:32.400 I didn't fit into their world. Their clothes all came 1:26:32.439 --> 1:26:35.879 from New York. They were driving their parents last year Cadillac. 1:26:36.439 --> 1:26:39.120 I mean it was, you know. And so I went 1:26:39.160 --> 1:26:42.599 to my high school reunion and they said, oh, you know, Desmond, 1:26:43.000 --> 1:26:46.720 you were always a superstar. You know, you were so 1:26:46.920 --> 1:26:51.960 mysterious with you were so handsome and and so cool, 1:26:52.479 --> 1:26:55.679 and you were like you were like an angel walking 1:26:55.720 --> 1:26:58.280 down the halls and all this kind of stuff. And 1:26:58.479 --> 1:27:05.200 inside I just felt so like a nothing, you know, Latino, 1:27:05.200 --> 1:27:10.280 poor gay. You know, I just didn't know what until 1:27:10.439 --> 1:27:14.880 I met Virgil. And then she like gave me a 1:27:14.920 --> 1:27:17.840 feeling like I belonged to something. We started reading cool 1:27:17.880 --> 1:27:21.400 books together and and all of that. And then then 1:27:21.240 --> 1:27:25.559 then when Desmond Child was born, then Desmond Child could 1:27:25.600 --> 1:27:28.400 be anything I wanted it to be. I was no 1:27:28.439 --> 1:27:32.640 longer Johnny Barrett, you know, that was a nothing. I 1:27:32.760 --> 1:27:35.439 was now Desmond Child and I loved the name because 1:27:35.479 --> 1:27:38.120 it reminded me of Elton John. It had that ring 1:27:38.200 --> 1:27:44.559 to it. And so I've been able to become maybe 1:27:44.880 --> 1:27:48.040 the arc type of whatever that is. You know. Okay, 1:27:48.080 --> 1:27:51.160 so when do you start playing music? So we we 1:27:51.200 --> 1:27:53.880 started playing little cafes, No no, no where did you 1:27:53.960 --> 1:27:56.360 learn how to play? Take? And I always played piano 1:27:56.400 --> 1:27:58.880 because my mom was was playing piano. That what was 1:27:58.920 --> 1:28:01.200 always a piano in my else? Okay, do you take 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:03.599 lessons or just figured out by yourself? Figured out by myself? 1:28:03.640 --> 1:28:07.240 Can read music now? No, even though I graduated from 1:28:07.320 --> 1:28:11.240 n YU the music department, I can. I can know 1:28:12.920 --> 1:28:15.479 you went down y good experience, bad experience. It was 1:28:15.520 --> 1:28:21.280 a wonderful experience because I had like the most amazing teachers. 1:28:21.720 --> 1:28:24.880 There was a voice teacher, John Kune. He lived to 1:28:24.920 --> 1:28:30.960 be two and uh, he believed in me and he 1:28:31.200 --> 1:28:34.760 really helped me to develop my voice. And then there 1:28:34.880 --> 1:28:41.080 was Adina Scoville and she had invented the keyboard numerical 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:43.800 system where you put your hands on its one, three, 1:28:43.920 --> 1:28:47.240 five and then you can play in any key and 1:28:47.280 --> 1:28:51.719 that's what Nashville adopted. She invented that in the nineteen thirties. 1:28:52.040 --> 1:28:56.240 And she had written a book called Keyboard Technique Modena Scoville, 1:28:56.439 --> 1:28:59.799 and she was already super old, and she was teaching 1:28:59.840 --> 1:29:02.960 at n y U. And she you know, when I 1:29:03.080 --> 1:29:05.679 once I figured out how I can put my hands 1:29:05.720 --> 1:29:10.880 down and modulate, it made a huge difference because I 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:13.280 could almost play anything, even though I mean I can't 1:29:13.280 --> 1:29:16.640 play fast songs and stuff, but I could pluck out chords. 1:29:16.680 --> 1:29:20.400 And I knew to do a seconds and force and 1:29:20.600 --> 1:29:25.080 understand all of this. And then I had a UM, 1:29:25.120 --> 1:29:31.240 a music theory teacher that was Holocaust survivor, and she 1:29:31.800 --> 1:29:39.000 ilsa bunch and she believed in me. So made such 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:44.120 a difference, you know, And and um to have people that, 1:29:44.240 --> 1:29:47.160 and so I wasn't want to do homework and all that, 1:29:47.240 --> 1:29:49.680 so I always sit in the front row. So I 1:29:49.760 --> 1:29:51.960 just listened really carefully, and then I did well in 1:29:52.040 --> 1:29:54.599 my tests. I was a big believer when I went 1:29:54.640 --> 1:29:57.040 to college, irrelevant of what you did, you gotta go 1:29:57.080 --> 1:29:59.320 to class every day otherwise feel like you're not even there. 1:29:59.640 --> 1:30:02.760 And so I was good at that. And I was 1:30:02.840 --> 1:30:05.200 driving a cab, I was living with Maria in the 1:30:05.240 --> 1:30:08.880 little apartment. I worked at a sporting goods store. I 1:30:09.080 --> 1:30:14.720 did Xerox machine and she was working waitress, and you know, 1:30:15.040 --> 1:30:18.120 those were like magical, wonderful days and hanging around Reno 1:30:18.200 --> 1:30:21.360 Sweeney because that's where we wanted to play. And eventually 1:30:21.520 --> 1:30:25.760 we opened, you know for four you know, bigger stars there, 1:30:25.840 --> 1:30:30.439 and that's that's how we became, you know something. And 1:30:30.479 --> 1:30:35.080 so we got signed out of there, uh two Capitol Records. 1:30:35.240 --> 1:30:41.599 So who signed you? Richard Landis and you know, and 1:30:41.680 --> 1:30:44.479 we were obsessed with Laura Nero. So he put us 1:30:44.520 --> 1:30:48.960 with Charlie Collelo, who was the arranger of Eli and 1:30:49.000 --> 1:30:54.120 the Thirteen Confessions. And then I hired Laura Nero's um 1:30:54.360 --> 1:30:57.880 father to tune my piano so I could just pick 1:30:57.960 --> 1:31:01.600 his brain about Laura and and he was you know, 1:31:01.640 --> 1:31:03.439 we'd be there three hours and need to tell his 1:31:03.520 --> 1:31:10.720 stories and stories and so you know, eventually, you know, 1:31:11.000 --> 1:31:13.720 I got to know her a few years before she 1:31:13.800 --> 1:31:16.960 passed away. Okay, she was living in Danbury then, and 1:31:17.360 --> 1:31:20.639 I went to Danbury and she made me dinner. Okay, wait, wait, 1:31:20.640 --> 1:31:26.760 but how did you make the connection? She played in 1:31:26.760 --> 1:31:32.000 Santa Monica at a little jazz club on Santa Monica 1:31:32.040 --> 1:31:35.960 Boulevard or something like that. In my place somebody's name. 1:31:36.000 --> 1:31:39.400 I think, whatever, keep going. Yeah, And so I sent 1:31:39.520 --> 1:31:42.519 back my my my business card and with a little 1:31:42.560 --> 1:31:45.280 note says I wanted to meet you my whole life. 1:31:46.080 --> 1:31:47.960 And so by the time I got home, there was 1:31:48.000 --> 1:31:54.800 a message on my voicemail. Hi, It's Laura, and it 1:31:54.920 --> 1:31:56.800 was like she gave me her phone number, and then 1:31:56.880 --> 1:32:00.160 she came over for dinner. Wow. Well was that like 1:32:00.840 --> 1:32:04.000 it was like magical. So then it was lucky because 1:32:04.080 --> 1:32:08.320 Maria was already with Rick, and uh, Diana was there 1:32:08.600 --> 1:32:11.240 and I think Miriam was in town. And we had 1:32:11.280 --> 1:32:16.280 this this dinner you know, with Laura and Desmond Child 1:32:16.320 --> 1:32:18.840 and Rouge. And then we went to my piano and 1:32:18.920 --> 1:32:21.439 Laura sat at the piano and we started singing through 1:32:21.479 --> 1:32:24.720 all the songs of Gonna Take a Miracle. Wow, it 1:32:24.840 --> 1:32:27.439 was like a fans wild exactly. I got it. I 1:32:27.479 --> 1:32:35.160 got it. I got it. And then and then she 1:32:35.240 --> 1:32:38.320 invited me, you know, because she invited me to her 1:32:38.360 --> 1:32:41.760 house for dinner. So I went and I imagined, like 1:32:42.160 --> 1:32:44.960 this grant remember when I was living with Maria, had 1:32:44.960 --> 1:32:49.160 this little tiny willeitz Er piano, and I kept singing, God, 1:32:49.320 --> 1:32:51.920 you know, Laura Nero write so many songs much better 1:32:51.960 --> 1:32:56.759 than mine. And she's probably on gorgeous piano overlooking riverside drive, 1:32:57.160 --> 1:32:59.599 you know, all this kind of stuff. So I go 1:32:59.800 --> 1:33:02.760 and rent a car, and I go to dan Berry 1:33:02.840 --> 1:33:06.720 and I go on this thing and you know, she 1:33:06.880 --> 1:33:11.720 lived in a prefab little gray thing that was like 1:33:11.760 --> 1:33:15.519 a little trailer. It was literally a trailer. It was 1:33:15.560 --> 1:33:17.839 like a pre fab It was like as wide as 1:33:18.000 --> 1:33:20.680 you know, you could drive down a road right. And 1:33:20.720 --> 1:33:23.760 then she had a little part that stuck out and 1:33:23.800 --> 1:33:25.880 there was a fouton on the floor and that's where 1:33:25.880 --> 1:33:28.880 she slept, and her son slept like in a little 1:33:28.960 --> 1:33:33.320 loft over the closet. And um, she because she couldn't 1:33:33.320 --> 1:33:35.280 afford to live in the main house that she owned, 1:33:35.680 --> 1:33:42.120 so she had that rented. And she made me and 1:33:42.160 --> 1:33:45.120 I thought, oh this she's Italian and Joe, She's gonna 1:33:45.120 --> 1:33:48.879 make the most delicious good. It was just like regular 1:33:48.880 --> 1:33:53.759 pasta with ragu, tomato, sauce, iceberg lettuce and french is dressed. 1:33:55.200 --> 1:33:58.439 And I brought a bag full of like hogandas which 1:33:58.680 --> 1:34:01.320 was you know, she loved that. So we had all 1:34:01.360 --> 1:34:03.519 the four that I had brought in with spoons and 1:34:03.560 --> 1:34:06.839 all this kind of stuff, and she had a picture 1:34:06.840 --> 1:34:10.320 window and underneath the picture window was a little will 1:34:10.400 --> 1:34:15.640 itz Er Spinett like the one I was writing exactly, 1:34:16.400 --> 1:34:19.320 you know, with the little thing, and that's where she 1:34:19.439 --> 1:34:24.519 was writing. And it was like, wow, isn't that ironic? Okay, 1:34:24.640 --> 1:34:27.599 it's also ironic that she was straight and then she 1:34:27.680 --> 1:34:33.280 went gay she came out. Yeah, I mean I think 1:34:33.320 --> 1:34:39.120 she was. She wasn't like I think she was whatever, 1:34:39.280 --> 1:34:44.000 bisexual or whatever she was whatever. Just an interesting parallel there. 1:34:44.400 --> 1:34:47.280 Why do you why do you think? Oh? Well, when 1:34:47.320 --> 1:34:50.400 we were listening to her music, Elien the third thing confessions, 1:34:51.120 --> 1:34:54.000 I have an interesting story because the person who played 1:34:54.040 --> 1:34:57.400 me that to begin with was Lisa Wexler, Jerry Wexler's daughter. 1:34:58.080 --> 1:35:01.679 And did you know Jerry, Yes, because he was the dad. 1:35:02.520 --> 1:35:04.479 This is when I was Yeah, but did you know 1:35:04.520 --> 1:35:09.160 who he was? Kind of? And I would? They were 1:35:09.160 --> 1:35:11.880 snowbirds and they had rented a house or maybe he 1:35:11.960 --> 1:35:16.240 had actually bought on Alice in Island, and so I would. 1:35:16.400 --> 1:35:18.600 I would I met her because I was me and 1:35:18.640 --> 1:35:21.439 my cousin, my cousin Iggy. We would go and fish 1:35:21.520 --> 1:35:23.960 coins out of the fountain blue fountains and the Eden 1:35:24.040 --> 1:35:26.519 Rock and the dul and we were putting twenty bucks 1:35:26.520 --> 1:35:30.479 in our pocket every time we went went there. So 1:35:30.840 --> 1:35:34.200 I met Lisa and she was like the snowbird, very masculine, 1:35:34.560 --> 1:35:37.479 and you know I always drawn to this and raging people. 1:35:37.520 --> 1:35:39.040 And so she said, oh, come over to my house 1:35:39.080 --> 1:35:41.519 for dinner, and so I started going over there and 1:35:41.680 --> 1:35:45.120 the dinner uh, you know, because Jerry loved this kind 1:35:45.120 --> 1:35:55.599 of more like being home for dinner. And you know, Sureley, Anita, Paul, Lisa, Me, Jerry, 1:35:56.160 --> 1:36:00.040 Tom Dowd, a Reef Martin m at her again in 1:36:01.080 --> 1:36:06.519 and they would be talking about the Vietnam War, the 1:36:06.600 --> 1:36:10.639 politics and how they were scheming, you know, to take 1:36:10.680 --> 1:36:14.240 over the music business and all these things. And I 1:36:14.280 --> 1:36:15.840 just wanted to stay at the table. And she would 1:36:15.840 --> 1:36:18.000 be like pulling on my shirt, like let's go to 1:36:18.160 --> 1:36:21.519 my room, smoke a joint, you know whatever. And so 1:36:22.120 --> 1:36:24.240 she pulled me over there and then she pulled out this, 1:36:24.439 --> 1:36:30.639 uh this record actually it was Lauren NEOs Um more 1:36:30.680 --> 1:36:34.200 than a New Discovery, the first album she played for me. 1:36:34.240 --> 1:36:36.920 In the minute I heard her voice, it was like 1:36:37.280 --> 1:36:40.320 touched me. It's like, okay, that's what I want to do. 1:36:40.560 --> 1:36:45.080 That that touched me in a way that nothing ever did. 1:36:45.760 --> 1:36:49.439 Her voice was like this wailing sound, and then her 1:36:49.479 --> 1:36:52.799 picture and everything is she was like a Madonna or something. 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:56.120 You see her perform live, I have, Yeah, I did 1:36:56.120 --> 1:36:58.799 at the University of Miami and then she was also 1:36:58.840 --> 1:37:01.920 at the Gulf Stream. Yeah, I saw her three times. 1:37:02.160 --> 1:37:05.040 Why do you think that after her initial period she 1:37:05.120 --> 1:37:15.120 never had more success? Well, well, first of all, she 1:37:15.280 --> 1:37:21.120 was never trying to write commercially, and it was David Geffen, 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:25.800 her agent and manager, who was placing the songs in 1:37:25.840 --> 1:37:30.880 these amazing ways Three Dog Night and The Fifth Dimension 1:37:31.120 --> 1:37:34.840 and you know, Barbara Streisan and like so many things, 1:37:34.840 --> 1:37:39.680 and she became like, you know, the eight Girl of songwriting. 1:37:40.520 --> 1:37:46.760 But she was a very shy person. And um, you know, 1:37:47.640 --> 1:37:53.080 I think that David according to what she told me, 1:37:53.120 --> 1:37:57.560 and also Clive Davis. You know, she was at Columbia 1:37:58.280 --> 1:38:04.640 and David created Asylum Records essentially for her. But you know, 1:38:04.760 --> 1:38:07.840 she didn't I want to leave Clive because it was 1:38:07.920 --> 1:38:12.080 like a family to her. So she just wouldn't go. 1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:15.439 And so I think David was very hurt by that. 1:38:16.439 --> 1:38:18.800 And of course what he did was he found Joni 1:38:18.880 --> 1:38:23.120 Mitchell and made her like the biggest female songwriter of 1:38:23.120 --> 1:38:27.840 all time. So and so, then I once had lunch 1:38:27.920 --> 1:38:31.280 with Clive Davis and and I said, well, what's your 1:38:31.400 --> 1:38:33.599 I asked him, you know, interviewing him kind of like, 1:38:33.640 --> 1:38:37.840 what's your biggest regret in your career? He said that 1:38:37.960 --> 1:38:42.880 I didn't become David Geffen's partner and go with him 1:38:42.960 --> 1:38:46.120 when he asked me to go, because I was putting 1:38:46.120 --> 1:38:49.040 out three FT records a year. I couldn't understand his 1:38:49.080 --> 1:38:53.240 business model, like twelve albums a year, and so it 1:38:53.400 --> 1:38:56.760 just he'said, I just didn't get it, you know I 1:38:57.360 --> 1:39:01.040 And so he says, that's my biggest rea rhet and 1:39:01.160 --> 1:39:03.759 I just thought, well, like wow, And then I started 1:39:03.760 --> 1:39:07.240 to think about it, and I thought like maybe David 1:39:07.320 --> 1:39:09.200 was still trying to say, if I could get Clive 1:39:10.040 --> 1:39:13.680 to come, then Laura will come. I got you, So 1:39:14.240 --> 1:39:16.880 you know, I hope you know I'm not speaking out 1:39:16.880 --> 1:39:21.080 of turn, but that was the math that I did. Okay, 1:39:21.160 --> 1:39:32.360 what's your favorite Laura Neuros song, Eli's Coming Emily Okay, um, 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:36.080 beads of Sweat, Um Christmas and my Soul. I have 1:39:36.160 --> 1:39:40.479 to say that that's that's the one. And when when 1:39:40.520 --> 1:39:43.120 she died Desmond Child and Ruth sang that at the 1:39:43.160 --> 1:39:47.040 Beacon Theater, you know, and in her tribute and um, 1:39:47.760 --> 1:39:51.880 you know that song is just so great. Mine is 1:39:51.920 --> 1:39:57.439 Captain for Dark Mornings. That okay. So so today, Desmond, 1:39:57.479 --> 1:40:03.840 what are you up to today? Well? Um, last year 1:40:03.880 --> 1:40:07.840 I decided I was going to perform again because I 1:40:07.880 --> 1:40:10.880 want to, because I just had to. And so I 1:40:10.920 --> 1:40:13.479 got all my friends together and went back to New 1:40:13.560 --> 1:40:16.160 York and found a club that kind of remind me 1:40:16.200 --> 1:40:22.639 of Reno Sweeney and it's called Finstein's Einstein's, as I say, 1:40:22.680 --> 1:40:25.439 I know, Michael Finstein did a podcast with him, um 1:40:25.560 --> 1:40:29.280 and um it was underneath fifty four below and I 1:40:29.280 --> 1:40:31.200 think it used to be like the orgy room or 1:40:31.240 --> 1:40:35.000 something where the drugs were all taken, you know, with 1:40:35.080 --> 1:40:39.080 Houstin and Liza or whatever. In those days. I was 1:40:39.160 --> 1:40:42.240 never able to get past the red red rope, not 1:40:42.400 --> 1:40:49.840 that I really tried that hard. Um. And so we 1:40:50.000 --> 1:40:54.240 I recorded those three nights and um then compiled it 1:40:54.320 --> 1:40:57.760 together to be this live album desm Child Live that 1:40:58.040 --> 1:41:02.480 I've you know, put out on b MG, and um, 1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:05.559 you know, I'm just you know, it feels it feels 1:41:05.560 --> 1:41:07.439 so good. I mean not all the songs that I 1:41:07.479 --> 1:41:09.800 ever we're hits were on it, but I sing a 1:41:09.800 --> 1:41:12.720 lot of the songs that became popular that I collaborated 1:41:12.720 --> 1:41:18.080 with with Aerosmith, bon Jovi and all that, and um, 1:41:18.120 --> 1:41:21.599 it's you know, it's it's kind of it's kind of homespun. 1:41:21.680 --> 1:41:25.480 It's not slick. It's like it's just a live cabaret room. 1:41:25.560 --> 1:41:29.760 But I'm very happy with it. And um, I mean 1:41:29.800 --> 1:41:32.200 I opened the show with Laura Nero song The Man 1:41:32.240 --> 1:41:35.240 Who Sends Me Home, which I dedicated to my husband. 1:41:35.800 --> 1:41:37.600 Of course that didn't make it on the record, but 1:41:37.680 --> 1:41:43.280 at I have it in the cans whatever and so um. 1:41:43.320 --> 1:41:48.280 And then I've been writing my autobiography with David Ritz 1:41:48.560 --> 1:41:50.840 and it's called Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big 1:41:50.840 --> 1:41:56.440 Life with David Ritz, and it's it's still I think Thursday, 1:41:56.439 --> 1:42:00.720 we're gonna make one last sweep through it and get 1:42:00.760 --> 1:42:03.080 it up up to date. And you know, I haven't 1:42:03.120 --> 1:42:05.920 been able to find a publishing deal yet, and I 1:42:05.960 --> 1:42:08.960 was thinking just printing it myself and publishing it just 1:42:09.320 --> 1:42:13.320 like Amazon or something. That's a whole separate conversation. I 1:42:13.360 --> 1:42:16.680 don't know what to do. Um. I had some you 1:42:16.720 --> 1:42:18.280 should talk to If you want to do it yourself, 1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:22.479 Jason Flam did a children's book which he heavily promoted itself. 1:42:22.520 --> 1:42:27.280 If you want to go that route, get ahold of Jason. Yeah, yeah, 1:42:27.760 --> 1:42:31.760 Lulul Dog because we have a bulldog looks almost like 1:42:31.840 --> 1:42:39.600 Lulu's sister. Uh so, um, so I've been working on that. Um. 1:42:39.640 --> 1:42:42.439 I've been working on a Broadway musical called Cuba Libre, 1:42:43.000 --> 1:42:45.240 and it's the true story of my mother's two very 1:42:45.280 --> 1:42:48.240 beautiful younger sisters, Baba who I spoke about, who is 1:42:48.280 --> 1:42:53.440 Bautista's mistress, and the youngest one, who was the revolutionary 1:42:53.439 --> 1:42:56.880 in the family and she became Castro's lover after the revolution. 1:42:58.000 --> 1:43:01.759 So we have two sisters to dig taters one island. 1:43:02.920 --> 1:43:05.879 And so I've been working on it with David Sigerson 1:43:06.800 --> 1:43:10.559 for since we started looking back, since two thousand four. 1:43:11.760 --> 1:43:15.519 Are we coming to Uh yes, I mean We've worked 1:43:15.520 --> 1:43:20.080 for many years, um developing it with you know, producers, 1:43:20.280 --> 1:43:23.400 Broadway producers, but then they got busy with other shows 1:43:23.439 --> 1:43:25.960 and this and that, and finally I think, you know, 1:43:26.600 --> 1:43:32.280 we have a new resurgence that's coming and hopefully we'll 1:43:32.320 --> 1:43:36.200 be able to start putting it up on the on 1:43:36.280 --> 1:43:40.040 its feet. But you know, I put everything I've got 1:43:40.080 --> 1:43:45.479 into that. And also have another collaborator, Andreas Carlson, who 1:43:45.520 --> 1:43:47.559 co wrote a lot of the songs for the Backstreet 1:43:47.600 --> 1:43:50.760 Boys in and Sink back in the day. And I 1:43:50.840 --> 1:43:55.320 met him and when he came to see me, because 1:43:55.360 --> 1:43:59.400 he was on a kind of pilgrimage to meet everybody 1:43:59.479 --> 1:44:01.800 or anybody that he ever saw their name on a 1:44:01.920 --> 1:44:07.120 kiss cover. So I was it. So we sat and 1:44:07.200 --> 1:44:10.240 we we just bonded, and he started telling me about 1:44:10.280 --> 1:44:13.639 oh Town, and he started telling me about lou Perlman 1:44:14.280 --> 1:44:16.360 and what he was doing there with all these boy briends. 1:44:16.439 --> 1:44:21.080 I said, wait a second, this is like the idol maker, 1:44:21.160 --> 1:44:23.640 this is like this is amazing. This could make an 1:44:23.640 --> 1:44:27.960 amazing movie. Right, So then we always talked about, you know, 1:44:28.000 --> 1:44:31.679 how we would do it. So then when Luke Perlman 1:44:31.800 --> 1:44:37.320 got caught perpetrating one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in 1:44:37.560 --> 1:44:41.000 history and then he goes to jail, like, the story 1:44:41.120 --> 1:44:45.879 just got better and better, and so Andreas like maybe 1:44:45.960 --> 1:44:48.280 and I like eight years ago we bought the rights 1:44:48.320 --> 1:44:50.320 to a book on the subject called The Hit Sharade 1:44:50.320 --> 1:44:54.479 by Tyler Gray and then we bought the right. We option. 1:44:54.600 --> 1:44:56.280 I would say I didn't winn't buy the rights. We 1:44:56.360 --> 1:44:59.920 option the rights uh to an article in Vantage. Then 1:45:00.000 --> 1:45:03.760 ay Fair called Matt about the boys. And so we 1:45:03.880 --> 1:45:10.439 finally have amazing partners. Ed pressman, pressman film, um Greg 1:45:10.479 --> 1:45:14.160 Basser who was with Village Road Show uh and now 1:45:14.200 --> 1:45:18.120 he has his own company, Gentle Giant. He's Australian David Anton, 1:45:18.320 --> 1:45:23.880 he's a you know, high end brand marketeer. Andreas and 1:45:24.040 --> 1:45:29.559 myself and um Heather Winters who's one of my close 1:45:29.560 --> 1:45:33.200 friends since she was the producer of the executive producer 1:45:33.200 --> 1:45:37.360 of Supersized Me. And so we are now moving forward 1:45:37.400 --> 1:45:41.160 to try to you know, get the director. The money's 1:45:41.200 --> 1:45:44.720 called coming, it's all doing. It's a scripted film on 1:45:44.760 --> 1:45:50.200 the subject. And I think what happened was that I 1:45:50.200 --> 1:45:52.400 would come to l A and you know, I write 1:45:52.439 --> 1:45:55.600 with different people and then you know, before you know it, 1:45:55.600 --> 1:45:57.559 all of a sudden, there's like six people on the song. 1:45:58.040 --> 1:46:00.640 And then maybe you could get Selena go Mess to 1:46:00.880 --> 1:46:02.960 maybe cut a song. But if it's not a single, 1:46:03.520 --> 1:46:06.920 then it's like all that effort, the trip, everything, it's 1:46:07.000 --> 1:46:10.280 just or it doesn't get cut at all. And I said, 1:46:10.280 --> 1:46:12.120 you know what, I want to be a buyer, not 1:46:12.240 --> 1:46:15.559 a seller. I want to decide what songs go into 1:46:15.600 --> 1:46:19.960 some big projects, and I want to put on you know, music, 1:46:20.000 --> 1:46:22.599 and I want to write things. So that's what had 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:27.280 gotten into my head. Doing a musical, doing a movie, um, 1:46:27.320 --> 1:46:30.960 you know, and I have other ideas you know that 1:46:31.000 --> 1:46:34.799 I'm pursuing. And it's fun. It's really creative too because 1:46:34.840 --> 1:46:37.520 I always wrote for archetypes, so I'm writing for characters 1:46:38.240 --> 1:46:43.000 and um so this uh but the it's called trans 1:46:43.080 --> 1:46:49.280 Con Theoretical Airline. The movie is called trans Con The 1:46:49.400 --> 1:46:53.120 Making of lou Perlman and the Boy Band Revolution. Now. 1:46:53.760 --> 1:46:56.599 Uh so if someone calls you to write, co write today, 1:46:56.640 --> 1:47:02.040 you will say, um, well, like who like an artist 1:47:02.160 --> 1:47:05.639 or like other pals you know that are an artist? 1:47:06.160 --> 1:47:10.560 An artist? Well, you know, there's some really great artists 1:47:10.600 --> 1:47:15.200 that are young and and I listen to them and 1:47:15.240 --> 1:47:17.840 if I feel that spark, I will write with them. 1:47:18.479 --> 1:47:21.680 So in Nashville there's some new artists that I'm you know, 1:47:21.960 --> 1:47:25.519 kind of working with and developing. But I'm also meeting with, 1:47:26.040 --> 1:47:29.920 you know, an artist that's already making records and touring. Um, 1:47:30.200 --> 1:47:33.920 and so I'm like I will meet, I will write, 1:47:34.600 --> 1:47:39.120 I will you know. I'm just I just don't put 1:47:39.160 --> 1:47:41.720 myself on a pedestal. The only problem is when the 1:47:41.760 --> 1:47:45.639 person doesn't have writing skills that it's like playing like 1:47:46.200 --> 1:47:51.280 Serena Williams playing with Grandma. It's like, that's not that's 1:47:51.320 --> 1:47:54.000 not fun for me. And I don't think the best 1:47:54.000 --> 1:47:57.080 thing comes out because then I impose everything on that 1:47:57.160 --> 1:47:59.639 other person. They may not be able to pull it off. 1:48:00.400 --> 1:48:03.400 And how often are you doing that? That's my day 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:06.439 job and I'm I'm like, I'll be going to New 1:48:06.520 --> 1:48:09.320 York to work on my Broadway show or come out 1:48:09.360 --> 1:48:12.599 here and doing I'm you know, yesterday I was running 1:48:12.640 --> 1:48:15.360 with for the last two days with Rock Mafia, and 1:48:15.560 --> 1:48:17.679 you know, we had a hit together with Z called 1:48:17.680 --> 1:48:22.200 Beautiful Now, so you know we we're doing good. And 1:48:22.320 --> 1:48:25.599 they welcome me so beautifully. That's that's because I'm not 1:48:25.840 --> 1:48:27.760 there in their face all the time. I come every 1:48:27.800 --> 1:48:32.280 few months. They're always happy to see me. And then Nashville, 1:48:32.280 --> 1:48:34.400 I have my own studio and all that and people 1:48:34.439 --> 1:48:39.240 are coming and um so why Nashville, there's a game? Man? 1:48:40.080 --> 1:48:45.439 Well after we had you know, after after nine eleven, 1:48:45.520 --> 1:48:49.360 see I go from tragedy tragedy earthquake. Nine eleven, I 1:48:49.400 --> 1:48:52.439 had like twelve people working for me. It was the 1:48:52.520 --> 1:48:56.880 Ricky Martin machine, and so Ricky lives six blocks away, 1:48:56.920 --> 1:49:01.600 so we had four studios going and and engineers assistant engineers. 1:49:01.800 --> 1:49:04.599 We were right on the water. Our cook was cooking 1:49:04.600 --> 1:49:07.479 for ten twelve people every day, you know, lunch and dinner. 1:49:07.520 --> 1:49:11.240 It was like a machine. And then after nine eleven, 1:49:11.400 --> 1:49:15.519 the record companies. On the one hand, I didn't want 1:49:15.520 --> 1:49:20.519 to pay too because remember the file sharing and all that. 1:49:20.840 --> 1:49:24.240 They stopped letting people come and rent apartments or stay 1:49:24.240 --> 1:49:27.200 in hotels to work with me. And also people were 1:49:27.240 --> 1:49:30.760 afraid to fly, so now I spent. Then my my 1:49:30.840 --> 1:49:35.599 children were born two thousand two, and so we had 1:49:35.600 --> 1:49:38.479 a problem because the state of Florida wouldn't allow my 1:49:38.600 --> 1:49:43.040 husband to be a legal co parent, So that was 1:49:44.000 --> 1:49:48.519 that wasn't good. And so I had four houses, I 1:49:48.520 --> 1:49:52.240 had my mom, and and it was like I wasn't 1:49:52.280 --> 1:49:54.840 working and the things I was getting were real like 1:49:54.960 --> 1:49:58.960 kind of sea level artists. Just to keep the lights 1:49:59.000 --> 1:50:03.519 on and takeing on. I said, I'm wasting myself. It's 1:50:03.600 --> 1:50:08.160 this isn't And at the same time, American Idol started happening, 1:50:08.600 --> 1:50:10.880 so I started spending so much time in l A. 1:50:11.000 --> 1:50:13.759 And and Clive was nice enough to put me into 1:50:13.840 --> 1:50:19.480 with Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood and 1:50:19.479 --> 1:50:22.400 and Fantasia and all this kind of stuff. So I 1:50:22.439 --> 1:50:26.240 was working for Clive, but my family was in Miami, 1:50:26.320 --> 1:50:28.200 so you know, I kind of said, Okay, that's it, 1:50:28.760 --> 1:50:31.800 let's just go back to l A. And you know, 1:50:32.080 --> 1:50:34.400 Max Martin had moved to l A. Everybody was moving 1:50:34.439 --> 1:50:36.600 to l A. And it seemed like, well, maybe I 1:50:36.600 --> 1:50:39.920 can jump in like that. So we bought a house 1:50:40.360 --> 1:50:45.599 and in Montenito, next to sam um Um Will Smith. 1:50:47.040 --> 1:50:50.719 His like property was like stones throw away from ours. 1:50:50.800 --> 1:50:52.920 It was four and a half acres this house, and 1:50:52.960 --> 1:50:55.439 it had a waterfall, koy ponds, and it had all 1:50:55.439 --> 1:50:59.400 this kind of stuff. But you know was after our 1:50:59.439 --> 1:51:02.719 friends all had fun at our big fifty foot pool, 1:51:03.200 --> 1:51:05.599 then they stopped coming to hang out with us. So 1:51:05.640 --> 1:51:07.559 we started to feel very isolated. So we moved to 1:51:07.600 --> 1:51:10.560 Santa Monica and we had a glorious time because the 1:51:10.640 --> 1:51:13.760 kids went to like a preschool called Little Dolphins by 1:51:13.800 --> 1:51:17.599 the Sea, and we met so many lifetime friends there, 1:51:17.600 --> 1:51:21.599 it seemed like okay. And then finally the market that 1:51:21.640 --> 1:51:23.479 we had bought a house in Center Market, but the 1:51:23.560 --> 1:51:27.479 market had really peaked, and we said, because we had 1:51:27.479 --> 1:51:31.280 always had our little cabin in in in Nashville, I said, 1:51:31.640 --> 1:51:34.360 let's just sell. Let's go to Nashville and Curtis. We 1:51:34.439 --> 1:51:36.640 also got scared because a lot of our friends that 1:51:36.800 --> 1:51:40.920 had teenage kids, you know, going too high private high schools, 1:51:41.360 --> 1:51:44.720 they were all already in rehab once or twice, and 1:51:44.720 --> 1:51:47.040 we said, do we really want to raise our sons 1:51:47.760 --> 1:51:54.920 here with these dangers. So Curtis, who's from Missouri, you know, 1:51:55.200 --> 1:51:58.639 and his we can drive to his his mom's house 1:51:58.680 --> 1:52:02.680 and all that said, know, let's go to Nashville. And 1:52:02.760 --> 1:52:06.000 we've had a beautiful life there. We really have. Okay, 1:52:06.040 --> 1:52:09.559 a couple of things. Two songs you're most proud of 1:52:11.800 --> 1:52:17.000 Weird with Hansen, because that's the song that I feel 1:52:17.439 --> 1:52:22.479 reflects them where you know, I feel you know, it's 1:52:22.520 --> 1:52:26.840 like when you're you're feeling different and then kind of 1:52:26.880 --> 1:52:28.880 getting to the place where you know what, even the 1:52:28.920 --> 1:52:32.960 prom queen feels different. You know, she everyone looks at her, 1:52:33.000 --> 1:52:36.120 she thinks, you know, everybody thinks she's so perfect and 1:52:36.200 --> 1:52:40.320 she's the most insecure and so it's one of the 1:52:40.360 --> 1:52:47.599 most beautiful songs, you know, continue and um, it's it's 1:52:47.720 --> 1:52:51.040 inspired by Burt Backrack and the lyrics of haw David. 1:52:51.920 --> 1:53:00.799 So I'm you know, I feel that song. And um 1:53:00.840 --> 1:53:03.320 there's a song that I wrote with John bon Jovi 1:53:03.479 --> 1:53:06.400 called you Want to Make a Memory and I sing 1:53:06.439 --> 1:53:09.160 it in my show and I love that song because 1:53:10.720 --> 1:53:15.519 you know, uh, my life is so much I mean, 1:53:15.640 --> 1:53:18.599 I'm still friends with my high school friends. It's about 1:53:19.080 --> 1:53:23.519 you know, we have so many memories and um, I 1:53:23.560 --> 1:53:26.800 don't know, maybe that's kind of a maybe the age 1:53:26.800 --> 1:53:29.400 that I'm in looking back on my life, retrospect in 1:53:29.520 --> 1:53:32.080 my book, all this kind of stuff. But the idea 1:53:32.120 --> 1:53:35.960 of making new memories, you have to make an effort. So, 1:53:36.360 --> 1:53:39.080 you know, we get our friends and we all found 1:53:39.080 --> 1:53:42.200 this little island in Greece and we meet there every summer. 1:53:42.240 --> 1:53:46.200 We're going now for our twelve How many people go, Oh, 1:53:46.439 --> 1:53:48.639 they come in and out, you know, but we stay 1:53:48.680 --> 1:53:51.519 there for a month and then we stay at the 1:53:51.600 --> 1:53:55.360 most fantastic It's Mama Mia, right, and you're on a 1:53:55.439 --> 1:54:01.360 cliff and everything, and uh, you just forget about the world. 1:54:01.720 --> 1:54:05.400 You start leaving your phone in your room, you start 1:54:05.920 --> 1:54:09.759 not there's no TV. Uh, you stop looking at your computer, 1:54:10.439 --> 1:54:12.400 and you start making a life for yourself and you 1:54:12.439 --> 1:54:16.400 start peeling away all of this stuff. You know. By 1:54:16.439 --> 1:54:20.160 the end, it's like, oh, there's just two more days. Really, 1:54:20.680 --> 1:54:24.400 can we change our flights? Can we stay longer? Because 1:54:25.280 --> 1:54:27.280 you know, you you start getting in touch. And then 1:54:27.280 --> 1:54:30.360 our kids, who tough guys. I don't know how they 1:54:30.400 --> 1:54:34.000 turned into such jocks. You know. My son's Roman and 1:54:34.080 --> 1:54:38.800 Nero named after Lawer Nero and y r Oh. I 1:54:38.880 --> 1:54:44.520 never saw jockey or jocks. I mean they will they 1:54:45.040 --> 1:54:48.800 vowed never to see another Broadway show. Yeah, they will 1:54:48.800 --> 1:54:51.560 not go. They will you know, hell no, we won't go. 1:54:52.280 --> 1:54:56.080 So we we started them seeing like you know, Billy 1:54:56.160 --> 1:54:58.680 Elliott in London when they were four years old. You know, 1:54:58.720 --> 1:55:04.760 it was like um and so they like, you know, 1:55:05.160 --> 1:55:08.440 they when we're in Greece, they turn like little kids, 1:55:09.200 --> 1:55:11.839 you know, because they see the other European children hugging 1:55:11.840 --> 1:55:14.680 their parents and stuff, and like when we're natural, it's 1:55:14.760 --> 1:55:18.120 like and then when we're there, it was like they 1:55:19.200 --> 1:55:23.040 just run like like in packs. They become like little 1:55:23.120 --> 1:55:26.360 kids and I just love that about being there, Okay, 1:55:26.440 --> 1:55:30.080 And what do you think about today's music? I love it. 1:55:30.120 --> 1:55:34.840 I mean I love um the inventiveness. And you know, 1:55:34.920 --> 1:55:39.360 it's like necessity, you know, because the budgets are you know, 1:55:39.480 --> 1:55:42.400 they give you Okay, here's five thousand dollars and now 1:55:42.760 --> 1:55:47.160 deliver your whole record. So what is it? Invention is 1:55:47.200 --> 1:55:52.600 the daughter of necessity. I think people are making the 1:55:52.680 --> 1:55:56.280 most out of samples and things and and actually bringing 1:55:56.320 --> 1:55:59.360 into a high art form and I applaud it and 1:55:59.400 --> 1:56:02.600 I think it's really good and it's more egalitarian, like 1:56:02.680 --> 1:56:05.760 you can make a song today tonight and put it 1:56:05.800 --> 1:56:10.320 out tonight before you'd wait two years for your single 1:56:10.440 --> 1:56:13.560 to finally appear, and by that point it's out of style. 1:56:14.640 --> 1:56:19.040 And so uh, I just think that this. I'm not 1:56:19.120 --> 1:56:22.280 afraid of technology. I just love it and I'm working 1:56:22.320 --> 1:56:26.280 in it. And what about melody? Melody? That's the thing. 1:56:26.440 --> 1:56:29.760 It's like with these cut and paste things, I think 1:56:30.000 --> 1:56:33.600 people get too lazy. And also they don't dig deep 1:56:33.720 --> 1:56:38.400 enough into into the lyrics as much as they could. 1:56:39.200 --> 1:56:43.200 I mean, I love urban music because lyrics are so 1:56:43.280 --> 1:56:45.920 important to it and the inner rhyming and a literation 1:56:46.240 --> 1:56:48.840 but I'm just talking about you know, pop music that 1:56:48.920 --> 1:56:52.320 has you know, urban riffs and stuff like that. It 1:56:52.440 --> 1:56:56.040 just doesn't sometimes feel like it's deep. Like I love 1:56:56.240 --> 1:57:01.560 Halsey that song, you know without me. I just love 1:57:01.640 --> 1:57:05.440 the sound of that and Billie Eilish and like all 1:57:05.480 --> 1:57:08.560 of that, and the way that they're those productions are 1:57:08.600 --> 1:57:11.920 there so sparse and they make the most out of nothing. 1:57:11.960 --> 1:57:16.560 They're like Japanese haikus or something. I see it like 1:57:16.640 --> 1:57:20.560 that because and I'm like back in the day, the 1:57:20.680 --> 1:57:24.440 King of Walls of Sound. I love, you know, I 1:57:24.560 --> 1:57:28.720 listened to Love Deluxe like over and over again. I 1:57:28.840 --> 1:57:31.080 never get sick of it. It sounds like it was 1:57:31.760 --> 1:57:36.320 done yesterday like today, and when somebody's doing true art, 1:57:36.400 --> 1:57:40.320 it's timeless, and you know, I'm always striving for that. 1:57:40.800 --> 1:57:43.120 And so I love I love the music of today, 1:57:43.280 --> 1:57:48.600 and it was someone who's creative. What inspires you, well, 1:57:49.880 --> 1:57:57.640 you know, I I think that when somebody some some 1:57:57.680 --> 1:58:02.400 people have natural talent, you know, they're just anything they touched, 1:58:02.440 --> 1:58:04.200 they like, they'll turn that box and all of sudden 1:58:04.200 --> 1:58:05.440 they turn it on its side, and all of a 1:58:05.440 --> 1:58:08.880 sudden they put something on top, and it's art. They 1:58:08.960 --> 1:58:12.240 have the eye or they have the ear. Those people 1:58:12.240 --> 1:58:15.640 are so rare, you know, because we also live in 1:58:15.680 --> 1:58:20.000 the world where everybody wants to be famous. It's like 1:58:20.680 --> 1:58:24.240 you can be famous for nothing and you're just cute 1:58:24.320 --> 1:58:28.600 and funny or something, and you can have billions of followers. 1:58:29.720 --> 1:58:33.400 So I think that when somebody walks into my office 1:58:34.280 --> 1:58:39.560 and they have it, it's like I come alive, like 1:58:39.640 --> 1:58:43.280 I get it and I feel it. And so there's 1:58:43.280 --> 1:58:46.800 always somebody being born who has it, and so, but 1:58:46.880 --> 1:58:51.400 it's not that many because it's a rare thing. Before, 1:58:51.840 --> 1:58:55.560 when Clyde was putting out three fifty albums, you know, 1:58:55.880 --> 1:59:01.400 in the seventies in every genre, you know, that was 1:59:01.480 --> 1:59:06.440 the Harvard of Music, you know, and you know, it 1:59:06.560 --> 1:59:10.400 was like wow, and you'd listen to those records over 1:59:10.400 --> 1:59:13.520 and over and over again. Now it's like it sounds 1:59:13.520 --> 1:59:16.440 it seems like people are putting out three songs a second. 1:59:17.080 --> 1:59:22.280 I think they are. I mean, it's almost impossible to 1:59:22.280 --> 1:59:26.560 to wrap your head around it. And and of all that, 1:59:26.720 --> 1:59:30.360 what really is essential? Really, I guess people find it 1:59:30.840 --> 1:59:35.040 and then it touches them, you know. And so if 1:59:35.040 --> 1:59:39.640 it's moving people and inspiring people, or even if it's 1:59:39.680 --> 1:59:43.440 not inspiring people's making people mad. I think that's it's 1:59:43.960 --> 1:59:49.200 bringing out emotion. I think that that's worthwhile. But you know, 1:59:49.480 --> 1:59:58.560 the who knows where the world's going, right, it's it's 1:59:58.600 --> 2:00:01.600 going so fast I can't keep track of it. I 2:00:01.720 --> 2:00:04.360 just want to be as I heard Dolly Parton once 2:00:04.400 --> 2:00:08.000 say on TV. She said, well I want to be 2:00:08.080 --> 2:00:13.280 an active participant in the entertainment industry. And there we 2:00:13.360 --> 2:00:15.960 have it. Desmond, thanks so much for doing this. Has 2:00:16.000 --> 2:00:18.960 been wonderful. Thank you. I feel like I've been in 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:21.520 therapy the whole time. Well, hopefully it will benefit you 2:00:21.560 --> 2:00:23.960 as much of my audience. Until next time, This is 2:00:24.000 --> 2:00:24.920 Bob Left says