Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.
Speaker 1: My guest today is musician, performer songwriter Desmond Child. Hey,
Speaker 1: I gotta ask you why, Desmond Child. Okay, I was
Speaker 1: going to Miami Beach High along with some other notables
Speaker 1: like Mickey Rourke and Andy Garcia. Were they there when
Speaker 1: you were there? Yeah? Yeah, because Mickey was one year
Speaker 1: ahead and um Andy was two years behind. Did you
Speaker 1: know them? Mickey was my protector from the bullies, really yeah,
Speaker 1: but that started in junior high at Nautilus. And do
Speaker 1: you still have contact with him? It's it's like one
Speaker 1: of those soul things. When you see him, you can act.
Speaker 1: But yeah, but every ten years we run into each
Speaker 1: other in the strangest places and we talked for three
Speaker 1: and then I don't see him for another ten years. Okay,
Speaker 1: so keep going. So you're going to I'm going to
Speaker 1: Miami Beach High. And you know, I Beach High was
Speaker 1: like nine o two one oh because all the parents
Speaker 1: were either Italian or Jewish and they all built ran
Speaker 1: or whatever all the hotels on Miami Beach. So all
Speaker 1: the parents they put so much money into that school.
Speaker 1: So it was like a private school and how many
Speaker 1: kids went to the school, do you remember? No? But
Speaker 1: I was like busting myself in from the projects. You
Speaker 1: remember that movie Moonlight. Yeah, sure, those projects. That's where
Speaker 1: we live for twelve years. And I just was going
Speaker 1: to Edison Junior High School and it was like no
Speaker 1: learning being done. It was all like, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: just the way, because did you work the angles so
Speaker 1: you could get into that school like you're living with
Speaker 1: your mother or with my aunt? Yeah, and so I
Speaker 1: it was three busses to get there, and uh, it
Speaker 1: was extraordinary, and so on the law, you know, during
Speaker 1: lunch there was a lawn and the kids were out
Speaker 1: there smoking whatever, wandering off to restaurants where you'd see
Speaker 1: the principal in way you weren't even supposed to be
Speaker 1: off school grounds. And um, there was a a girl
Speaker 1: and she sort of looked like Yoko. She had this
Speaker 1: long black hair and granny glasses, all dressed in black,
Speaker 1: and she was playing acoustic guitar and she was playing
Speaker 1: her own song. And you know, because my mom was
Speaker 1: a songwriter, and I guess maybe there was a kind
Speaker 1: of connection. And her name was originally Deborah Walstein, and
Speaker 1: then everyone called her Debbie Wall, and we just immediately
Speaker 1: bonded and we decided to become a duo. So we
Speaker 1: loved the name night Child, you know, so she did
Speaker 1: Why did you like the name night Child? Where did
Speaker 1: that come from? It just it was dark and it
Speaker 1: was her mon hess and it just you know, the
Speaker 1: magic theater and all this kind of stuff. And so
Speaker 1: I started wearing all black as well, and I guess
Speaker 1: we like invented goth okay, And so we had night Child.
Speaker 1: And so in order to be night Child, she became
Speaker 1: Virgil Night and I j and I became Desmond Child
Speaker 1: and Desmond from oh blahdo bladah wow, because I was
Speaker 1: trying to think of there aren't that many Desmond's. I
Speaker 1: was wondering what the inspiration was my whole career. When
Speaker 1: people met me, they couldn't understand that I was white.
Speaker 1: They thought I was Jamaican. You know. It was like Desmond.
Speaker 1: And I was like, what Desmond Decker. Okay, if we
Speaker 1: look at your passport, does it say Desmond Child? Now? Yeah,
Speaker 1: what does so you change your name legally? Yes? So
Speaker 1: what's the middle name? I couldn't think of one, So
Speaker 1: it's just a child, Okay. I first became aware of
Speaker 1: you with reviews of Desmond Child and Rouge, and I
Speaker 1: bought that album. Then you kind of faded from the
Speaker 1: landscape in terms of what my visibility was. Suddenly your songwriter.
Speaker 1: How does that happen? Well, when I was in Desmon
Speaker 1: Child and Rouge, we played all the clubs in New
Speaker 1: York City and we would plaster the streets with our posters.
Speaker 1: I got arrested once for doing so, and we would
Speaker 1: stencil the sidewalks around Black Rock with our names, you know,
Speaker 1: black Rock CBS. Yeah, Desmon Child and Rouge at Tracks
Speaker 1: because that was one of the favorite clubs. And so
Speaker 1: we're playing at Tracks and Paul Stanley from Kiss came
Speaker 1: to see us because he was intrigued, and, um, you know,
Speaker 1: we made friends. He came backstage and he said, um,
Speaker 1: you know, let's try writing a song. And it was like,
Speaker 1: I actually actually didn't know that much about Kiss. I
Speaker 1: thought that was just for little kids and stuff, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, so we ended up getting together. We wrote
Speaker 1: a song called I Was Made for Loving You. Well,
Speaker 1: certainly that's a big breakthrough here from it. It's kind
Speaker 1: of a disco hit. Oh okay, But did they intentionally
Speaker 1: want to change their sound to that sound. No, no,
Speaker 1: I that's what Desmond Child and Rouge was doing. And
Speaker 1: I had got gotten one of the first drum machines,
Speaker 1: so I was writing two beats, this is you know
Speaker 1: eight machine something like that. You know, it had a
Speaker 1: cheesy little sound, you know, but now of course the
Speaker 1: hip hop world is using those sounds. You know, you
Speaker 1: hear them. Crazy thing is at the rolling was like
Speaker 1: the definitive thing we thought that passed in the facts
Speaker 1: on every record. Now just blows my mind, you know.
Speaker 1: So um, well that's a little bit slower, a little
Speaker 1: bit slower. So all Stanley just sees your flyer and
Speaker 1: comes comes. There's no connection, No one's reaching out to him.
Speaker 1: And was the flyer what was intriguing about the floor
Speaker 1: because he thought I looked kind of well, I had
Speaker 1: this kind of one of the first mullets, and uh,
Speaker 1: these gorgeous girls with you know, looking very hot around
Speaker 1: So it was kind of like that. People didn't know
Speaker 1: what to make of us. Actually, looking back on it,
Speaker 1: we was more like the Scissor Sisters. We're kind of
Speaker 1: hip and playing Reno Sweeney and rubbing shoulders with Andy
Speaker 1: Warhol and Hollywood Lawn, and you know that was an
Speaker 1: incredible time. We opened for Patti Smith at the Lower
Speaker 1: Manhattan Notion Club, So we were inventing. Okay, so you
Speaker 1: were part of the seed that he was checking out
Speaker 1: the sea. Yeah, so we were mixing rock guitars with
Speaker 1: dance beats. We didn't think of it as disco. I
Speaker 1: mean when I bought the record, because the record refuted
Speaker 1: the rock press about the record. The record very surprising.
Speaker 1: So it was a little bit all over the place.
Speaker 1: And within six months we released a second album called
Speaker 1: Runners in the Night, and that was way more rock.
Speaker 1: And it was also the moment because I started desmon
Speaker 1: Chan the Rouge with Maria Vidal and we were the
Speaker 1: founders and then we added our best friends Diana Grisselli
Speaker 1: and Merriam Valley, and then um it was I was
Speaker 1: Marie and I had been together now like three or
Speaker 1: four years, and I realized I was way more gay
Speaker 1: than I was by and then right between the two albums,
Speaker 1: I met somebody that turned my life upside down, and um,
Speaker 1: I just realized I couldn't I couldn't stay. And so
Speaker 1: that's what Runners in the Night is all about. And
Speaker 1: the first song, you couldn't stay what with her? And
Speaker 1: also that broke up the band. So that's why, you know,
Speaker 1: we had so much potential. Where does she today? Oh,
Speaker 1: she's amazing artists on her own, but we actually anyway,
Speaker 1: she's she's married to Rick Knowles and who's going to
Speaker 1: be that's hysterical and she has her own studio and
Speaker 1: she h to ask him the story. He's being inducted
Speaker 1: into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame this year. Okay, but
Speaker 1: let's go back to Paul Stanley. He meets you backstage
Speaker 1: and the first night he beat back. I want to
Speaker 1: write a song with you pretty much. He said, hey,
Speaker 1: you guys, you know you're pretty good. We should try
Speaker 1: writting a song together. I I think that maybe his
Speaker 1: intention was maybe hooking up with, you know, one of
Speaker 1: the girls, right, so you know, it's like we're letting
Speaker 1: the fox into the henhouse, you know. And but I
Speaker 1: think he I want his respect, and so we we
Speaker 1: we wrote I Was Made for Loving. Okay, wait, wait, first,
Speaker 1: what he said we're gonna write this? Did he include
Speaker 1: the whole band Orges? No? Just me? Because I was
Speaker 1: solely writing, I realized, But I wondered since he wanted
Speaker 1: to pull one of the girls kind of like, you know, okay,
Speaker 1: hang with you, hang with Okay, So where did you write?
Speaker 1: I was made? I went to U. S. I. R.
Speaker 1: And Kiss was rehearsing for the instrument. Yeah, and it
Speaker 1: was the big a room with the stage and all that,
Speaker 1: and off to the side there was a grand piano
Speaker 1: with a cover on it and everything, and they all
Speaker 1: took a lunch break and during that break we sat
Speaker 1: together at that big piano and I started playing the
Speaker 1: chords which you made up on the spotter you had previously. No,
Speaker 1: I made it up on the spot you know, and
Speaker 1: this kind of like um emo kind of tonight, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna give it all to you, you know. It was.
Speaker 1: It was kind of like um bravado. And so when
Speaker 1: they went into the studio then with Vinny Poncia a
Speaker 1: little bit slower, so you're there, they're on lunch breaks.
Speaker 1: The song finished during lunch. No, it wasn't completely finished,
Speaker 1: but you know, Paul went and ran with it with
Speaker 1: Nny Pontia, the producer. Okay, at this point you're out
Speaker 1: of the loop. I'm out. But so it was really
Speaker 1: your input was all on that one. Day during rehearsal. Yes,
Speaker 1: and also this idea of like four on the floor,
Speaker 1: you know, you know, it was kind of like exciting.
Speaker 1: And then also at that time, big big raves were
Speaker 1: starting to happen, and it was like the idea of
Speaker 1: bringing rock to a dance. It was just eighty two,
Speaker 1: what no, this is seventy eight, sev seventy eight. We
Speaker 1: wrote I think in seven on the seven and then
Speaker 1: I think it was released in seventy something like that.
Speaker 1: And so you know, the thing was is that I
Speaker 1: was I've always been intrigued and and you know with
Speaker 1: the idea of merging styles, you know, like trying to
Speaker 1: grab a little piece of this Pastiche and Desmond Charlon
Speaker 1: Rouge was that we were you know, we had R
Speaker 1: and B elements, we had Latin elements, we had congas,
Speaker 1: we had heavy power chords. We told stories like Laura
Speaker 1: Nero and Joni Mitchell and Nelton John. So it was
Speaker 1: like it wasn't like all sex and romance. There was
Speaker 1: always a character and there was always this and that,
Speaker 1: and all of that kind of came together really, uh
Speaker 1: with when I worked with bon Jovi. Okay, well, well
Speaker 1: a little bit flower Okay, so you're right. I was
Speaker 1: made with loving for loving you, uh, with Paul stan Right.
Speaker 1: How long after you sit there in s I R
Speaker 1: do you become aware they're cutting it? Oh? They cut
Speaker 1: it and put it out? What like? Were you part
Speaker 1: of the loop or did you just hear it when
Speaker 1: it came out? Yeah? I heard it when it came out. Okay.
Speaker 1: So in between writing it h and then hearing when
Speaker 1: it come out, it was months, it was Did you
Speaker 1: have any contact with the band that really? No? I
Speaker 1: thought all was good, and then all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: you know, I started hearing that my song got cut.
Speaker 1: You know, I think from Rick Albertie or Bill a
Speaker 1: Coin or or somebody to my manager. At that time
Speaker 1: it was Roy Rickson and Matthew Mark and they had
Speaker 1: Star Flight Management. Okay, so you hear the song is
Speaker 1: gonna be cut. When do you finally hear the wreck?
Speaker 1: I think that they sent me a copy of it. Okay,
Speaker 1: did you hear it? Did it sound like what you
Speaker 1: thought the song was? That you but but better? Like
Speaker 1: it was grand? It was bigger than I could have
Speaker 1: ever Did you immediately hear it? I'm sure you're excited.
Speaker 1: Did you say this is a hit. It was already
Speaker 1: a hit. It when they finally sent me the copy,
Speaker 1: it was a hit already all over the world. Okay, okay,
Speaker 1: when did you first hear it? That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: When they when somebody you don't even know? It was
Speaker 1: nothing nothing. I was like, you know, kind of in
Speaker 1: the dark, and they were too busy to think about me. Wow.
Speaker 1: So uh and you still own all your songs? Well
Speaker 1: not no, not not not like own own. Uh. There
Speaker 1: was a catalog sale that I did in and um
Speaker 1: that was with PolyGram uh Publishing, and David Simone was
Speaker 1: the head of that and my manager at Winston Simone
Speaker 1: you know are not brothers, which is on and they're
Speaker 1: called the Simoni brothers whatever. Uh. So we did, we
Speaker 1: did that deal. And at that time, this was after
Speaker 1: the earthquake, we were living my husband and I were
Speaker 1: living in Santa Monica, and it really shook, it really shook.
Speaker 1: And I just said, and I had another friend who said, listen,
Speaker 1: Miami Beach is where it's happening. You can get a
Speaker 1: house on the water for almost nothing, just like you know,
Speaker 1: and we I just said, let's let's do it. So
Speaker 1: we sold and we moved to UM to Miami Beach,
Speaker 1: and I was able to make my mother's dream come true.
Speaker 1: I bought her her own little mini mansion on Miami Beach.
Speaker 1: That's all she ever wanted. And pretty soon I owned
Speaker 1: four houses on the on the block. Okay, but connect
Speaker 1: me with PolyGram and selling. So then it was getting
Speaker 1: really hard to find work. And at that point, all
Speaker 1: of the bands that I had been working with UM
Speaker 1: had started making compilation albums like best of and you know,
Speaker 1: they're already like three per act that we're already being reshuffled.
Speaker 1: And Winston said, you know, maybe this is the time
Speaker 1: to sell. So, you know, it was I was really
Speaker 1: kind of going broke, and UM, I just said okay.
Speaker 1: And my father, who was Hungarian and lived through the
Speaker 1: Depression and in World War two and all that, he
Speaker 1: was like, grab the money, grab the money, grab the money,
Speaker 1: you know. So so I did, and you know, I
Speaker 1: think that's why we've I've been able to keep a
Speaker 1: pretty high standard of living and also sacrifice a lot
Speaker 1: experimenting with things that maybe I wouldn't have if I
Speaker 1: was like hoping to get the next hit. Okay, just
Speaker 1: a couple of questions you sold a you sold what
Speaker 1: did you actually sold the writers and publishers share of
Speaker 1: that catalog and retained the performance income from ask Catalcy
Speaker 1: for myself. So my catalog at Aska and so then
Speaker 1: I started a new catalog before you do that? Okay,
Speaker 1: what did you do with the money? Well, had people
Speaker 1: to pay off, right, But a lot of time people
Speaker 1: get that check and they blow it completely and they're
Speaker 1: broke again. No, I've you know, I had to pay
Speaker 1: you know, Tim Collins had always told me that he
Speaker 1: man Smarrowsmith. He always insisted that everybody pay off their houses,
Speaker 1: no matter what, even if they had to, you know,
Speaker 1: eat nothing. And so that's what I did. I paid
Speaker 1: off all my debts and created a studio, built a
Speaker 1: studio called the Gentleman's Club and started making records there. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you sold, you paid off. How much time did
Speaker 1: you buy with the money you saved? Well? What day
Speaker 1: is it today? Today is Wednesday? Okay, so that money
Speaker 1: still you still have the rabbits. Very good, I applaud
Speaker 1: because we're in an era where mercuriois is buying everybody's
Speaker 1: catalog and he's paying an incredible wount. But I just
Speaker 1: worry about the acts who sell who might end up broke.
Speaker 1: Obviously not you. But let's go back because of my father,
Speaker 1: because you know that Eastern European like don't spend a penny. Okay,
Speaker 1: so most people not that savvy, certainly not musicians. You
Speaker 1: have that hit in seventy eight, Okay, from the outside,
Speaker 1: it looks like you don't have another monster hit until
Speaker 1: you work with bon Jovi. No, I mean I had
Speaker 1: another hit with Kiss called Heavens on Fire with when
Speaker 1: they took their makeup off right, And so it was
Speaker 1: that song that bon Jovi was opening for Kiss in Europe,
Speaker 1: and they loved that song. In fact, they had written
Speaker 1: us called In and Out of Love that was very
Speaker 1: similar sounding In and Out of Love, I feel my
Speaker 1: heat taking It was in the in the and and
Speaker 1: it was in the style of it. And um so
Speaker 1: Paul had said, hey, you know, because he's very kind
Speaker 1: of paternal and very generous with everyone, he's like wonderful,
Speaker 1: and he said, John, maybe you should try riding with Desmond.
Speaker 1: So I got a call from John bon Jovi and
Speaker 1: I went out to this little wooden house the in
Speaker 1: the end of a cul de sac at the edge
Speaker 1: of like this gray brown marsh. In the very distance
Speaker 1: there was an oil refinery. I mean, this is like
Speaker 1: where they buried people in the Sopranos. And this is
Speaker 1: New Jersey, New Jersey. Yeah. And so I walk in
Speaker 1: and I'd make a left, and then on the left
Speaker 1: I could see Richie's bedroom. Yeah, he still lived home
Speaker 1: with his parents. And there was the far faucet poster
Speaker 1: in the in the red right right, the bathing suit
Speaker 1: kiss poster led Zeppelin. I mean, I just had a
Speaker 1: quick look, and I walked into the kitchen and there's
Speaker 1: this you know, vision of look like from the Court
Speaker 1: of Louis, the FOURT with this big you know mullet
Speaker 1: and um and John was on one of the you
Speaker 1: know kitchen wall phones, Avocado green on its phone, undoubtedly
Speaker 1: with Doc McGee, and he kind of like nut looked
Speaker 1: at me sideways and kind of like nodded. And then
Speaker 1: Richie said, well, come this way, and I had to
Speaker 1: go downstairs into the basement, which was the laundry room. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is his parents house, Richie's parents, Yeah, and so
Speaker 1: and uh so I went down to the laundry room
Speaker 1: and it's kind of damn and it was you know, musty,
Speaker 1: and there was like the washing machine, and then there
Speaker 1: was like like I discarded for Mike, a table where
Speaker 1: they had put a little keyboard, and then there was
Speaker 1: two little buzzing amps and some chairs and that was
Speaker 1: their writing room. So I went down there. I was
Speaker 1: waiting for a which to be sure, because you had
Speaker 1: a relationship with Kiss. They were opening for Kiss. Had
Speaker 1: you ever met them previously? This is the first time,
Speaker 1: And so I had thought of a title because you know,
Speaker 1: during that time I was working with Bob Crewe. Well,
Speaker 1: when do you talk my audience a little bit of
Speaker 1: his history legendary. Well, Bob Crew was the producer and
Speaker 1: co writer of all the four Seasons hits with Bob
Speaker 1: Gaudio and he's a character in the stage musical and
Speaker 1: movie Jersey Boys. And so he had moved to California,
Speaker 1: from California to back to New York. And he was fabulous.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was so stylish and he's so handsome.
Speaker 1: He looked like a Viking model with this red hair
Speaker 1: and you know, tall, amazing, big laugh, and uh, somebody
Speaker 1: said you should work with Desmond. So he we decided
Speaker 1: he would be my producer. So I spent two years
Speaker 1: writing with him. Um for me for my project, and um,
Speaker 1: it was a very it was I went to songwriting college,
Speaker 1: That's what I did. And it was very structured. It
Speaker 1: was brill building style because that's where he came from.
Speaker 1: And so he had an apartment that was just a studio,
Speaker 1: didn't have a bedroom, had a little kitchen and just
Speaker 1: one room and this studio days. Yeah, but that was
Speaker 1: just for his songwriting. He had a beautiful apartment on
Speaker 1: the East side. You know, there was nothing on the walls.
Speaker 1: He couldn't. He was anal about that, you know, uh
Speaker 1: like white berber carpet, cream colored walls, black piano that
Speaker 1: all his hits were written on. There was a black
Speaker 1: hard bench that went with it, and an armchair, a
Speaker 1: stool that had you know arms that swiveled, very comfortable
Speaker 1: for him. And then there was a pile of of
Speaker 1: um yellow pads. And then he would spend time sharpening
Speaker 1: pencils and so you'd get the pencil and a pad
Speaker 1: and you know, blank pad and he would not allow
Speaker 1: song to be started until there was a killer title
Speaker 1: and there were lyrics and there were things to write about,
Speaker 1: things to say. It wasn't the way I wrote before,
Speaker 1: which was like playing chords and mumbling and hoping that
Speaker 1: those mumbles would sound like something, you know, and then
Speaker 1: you kind of, oh, you know, build a whole world
Speaker 1: around that one little mumble. I mean, when I learned
Speaker 1: how to write the other way, that's when I started
Speaker 1: having hits, because you know, I would walk in with
Speaker 1: a title, and he also taught me things like the
Speaker 1: tension of the opposites. Um, you know, so even within
Speaker 1: each line there was you know, tension of opposites. And
Speaker 1: his rhyming had to be tight, like Broadway tight. None
Speaker 1: of this of than love, you know, enough doesn't rhyme
Speaker 1: with love, you know, it was he was like strict
Speaker 1: so and every line had to flow into the next.
Speaker 1: There couldn't be these disconnected thoughts. And like, for instance,
Speaker 1: sometimes I hear songs that it's like you this or that,
Speaker 1: and then the guy gets to the course and he
Speaker 1: starts singing. She was like, what, So Bob cleared all
Speaker 1: those cobwebs out of my mind, and so I knew
Speaker 1: to walk in with the title. Okay, just a little
Speaker 1: bit slower, you have this ship. The bon Jovi hits
Speaker 1: aren't until really, what are you living? On the royalties
Speaker 1: from I was made for Loving You. Okay, that's covering you. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're working with Bob Crew. Did you have a specific
Speaker 1: time you started. Yes, Well, we would meet at I
Speaker 1: think it was called Boni on Street off of Broadway,
Speaker 1: across the street from the mod this modern building where
Speaker 1: he had his studio, and it was lunch special. I
Speaker 1: think it was like four nine six. And it always
Speaker 1: had to be Dutch because he was like in the
Speaker 1: program and he used to fly planes to Paris to
Speaker 1: have croissants with his friends. Wait wait wait wait wait
Speaker 1: wait wait wait, had to be the program. I think
Speaker 1: of alcoholics anonymous. He's not the program, but in his
Speaker 1: own thing, he was like so overly generous that he
Speaker 1: blew like so much money on lavish parties and all that.
Speaker 1: So for his program he had to um like, everything
Speaker 1: had to be Dutch. So I paid my my, you know,
Speaker 1: my five bucks, and he pays five bucks and we
Speaker 1: eat the lunch special. So flying to Paris for croissant
Speaker 1: was before you got in the picture. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: with you know, movie stars and you know. Did he
Speaker 1: retain the ownership of his songs. I think he did, right,
Speaker 1: I think he did okay, Yeah, okay, okay, So you
Speaker 1: went for went for lunch, you paid your five bucks.
Speaker 1: Then at one o'clock we'd have to be I'd have
Speaker 1: to be sitting on that bench ready to go, and
Speaker 1: then we'd start. And just so I know, it was
Speaker 1: a piano bench. Yeah, hard, So both of you were
Speaker 1: sitting in front of the piano. No, he was on, yes,
Speaker 1: and he was on the stool higher up, high up.
Speaker 1: And then at six o'clock sharp, session would end and
Speaker 1: he'd leave to go to his meeting. And five days
Speaker 1: a week, almost two years, we wrote thirty eight songs together. Okay,
Speaker 1: So when you sat down at one o'clock, did one
Speaker 1: of the two of you already have a title in mind?
Speaker 1: We'd be talking and a lot of it was he
Speaker 1: was telling stories from the wild sixties and when he
Speaker 1: met Maria Kllis on the beach in Centrope, and that
Speaker 1: night they threw a little soiree and they both sang
Speaker 1: together and like, oh, these amazing stories and the crazy,
Speaker 1: crazy Hollywood orgies and just everything. And so then some
Speaker 1: thing and something he would say would spark a title.
Speaker 1: Is that, Oh that sounds like a good title, And
Speaker 1: so we'd write down a bunch of titles and then
Speaker 1: we pick the strongest one and start and then usually
Speaker 1: we couldn't get through that song that day, so the
Speaker 1: next day we'd pick up and finish that song, and
Speaker 1: so then the next time it was like that, Okay,
Speaker 1: once you have the title, how did you write the song? Um? Well,
Speaker 1: he explained that lyrics have melody in our language, like
Speaker 1: I just went data, see what I'm saying. So then
Speaker 1: how fast you say it? You sing it? And the
Speaker 1: um scoring because he compared lyrics to the script. The
Speaker 1: music is a score. You make the movie first and
Speaker 1: then you score it. Because if a scene is supposed
Speaker 1: to be spooky, then you put in the dark courts.
Speaker 1: If it's supposed to be happy, then you make it
Speaker 1: sound happy. So that was how he related it to me.
Speaker 1: So in a lot of my productions, I try to
Speaker 1: make the production cinematic, trying to bring out the meaning
Speaker 1: perfect example, like limon labla loca. When you get to
Speaker 1: the second verse, you hear a gong and he goes
Speaker 1: woke up in New York City in a fun kitchy hotel,
Speaker 1: and I that imagine that you know, whore house in
Speaker 1: Chinatown everything's red beaded curtains, incense, you know, And so
Speaker 1: the gong spoke of that like it just evoked that
Speaker 1: whole kind of bohemian you know moment you know of
Speaker 1: him just crazy. You know, she took my heart and
Speaker 1: she took my money. She must have slipped me a
Speaker 1: sleeping pill, because remember all those urban legends of waking
Speaker 1: up without kidneys and so so okay, so I don't
Speaker 1: And then you would write the lyrics. Yeah, we'd write that.
Speaker 1: We write the lyrics for the chorus, and then once
Speaker 1: we got that, then it would speak to us like, uh,
Speaker 1: what how the verses should be, whether they should be
Speaker 1: like halftime or whether they should be in the same
Speaker 1: brick brisk manner or depending on what we were we
Speaker 1: were writing. And so that discipline taught me everything. And
Speaker 1: that's the discipline I walk into a but but it
Speaker 1: just keeps staying on that. You write the chorus, you
Speaker 1: write the first at the time, are you thinking of
Speaker 1: the bridge? Are you thinking? Because everything depends on whether
Speaker 1: you've made that that hook payoff and everything that that supported,
Speaker 1: all the little you know, braces that that hold up
Speaker 1: that title and pay off the title. So so you know,
Speaker 1: so times to make it really pay off, sometimes you
Speaker 1: have to start really on the down low, with slow phrases,
Speaker 1: lots of time between the things you're saying, and then
Speaker 1: usually have a channel B section that kind of starts
Speaker 1: to wind up the tension, wind up the tension, so
Speaker 1: by the time you hit the chorus, you're ready for it.
Speaker 1: You're ready for the rain to to fall, You're ready
Speaker 1: for the sun to come up. You're ready, you know,
Speaker 1: for for whatever is being promised. And so with that
Speaker 1: in mind, you know, that's why I started having hits
Speaker 1: like okay, wait, just so I know, because thinking of
Speaker 1: all those Beatles hits, a lot of them had bridges.
Speaker 1: Assuming you do have a bridge as a songwriter, does
Speaker 1: that come later or is that something when do you say, oh,
Speaker 1: I want to change it up? I think after the
Speaker 1: second chorus. Then you have to have something to stay
Speaker 1: in the song that's worth staying in the song for
Speaker 1: that you haven't heard before. I saw a lot of
Speaker 1: contemporary music that's just written on the same loop with
Speaker 1: the same chords. It's just cut and paste, and then
Speaker 1: it's like nothing changes harmonically, and and and the trick
Speaker 1: is to make it every time you hear those same
Speaker 1: chords go by having it sound different somehow with texture,
Speaker 1: with you know how fast you're saying things I mean
Speaker 1: and I I'm writing songs like that also these days.
Speaker 1: But back then it was like now we had to
Speaker 1: clean the palette, the bridge, had to take us to
Speaker 1: a new place, had to modulate, had to go, had
Speaker 1: to maybe we want the last course to be modulated.
Speaker 1: So that's where we start modulating. So when you get it,
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like the the you like this kind
Speaker 1: of forced modulation. Okay, you wrote thirty eight songs together.
Speaker 1: Was he working with anybody else or just you just me?
Speaker 1: What happened to those thirty eight songs? I have them?
Speaker 1: And did any of them end up becoming hits? Why
Speaker 1: do you think that is? We wrote two songs and
Speaker 1: then he got me a deal at Epic Records, um,
Speaker 1: and you know, they didn't take me seriously or anything
Speaker 1: like that, and they just kind of they went by
Speaker 1: the wayside. And they weren't kind of progressive like the
Speaker 1: stuff I was doing with Desmond Child and Rouge. They
Speaker 1: were more like trying to be like what George Michael
Speaker 1: later became, like Blue Eyed Soul, and so you know,
Speaker 1: I didn't really know who I wasn't. Also, I was really,
Speaker 1: you know, struggling with you know the fact that well,
Speaker 1: how am I going to be an out artist? No
Speaker 1: women would follow me? Who the other ones that would
Speaker 1: buy records of a balladeer or kind of romantic figure?
Speaker 1: And I remember by then I was already twenty six,
Speaker 1: so I just didn't I didn't know who I was,
Speaker 1: and I was very lost. And then remember all my
Speaker 1: friends were dying of AIDS and I was terrified, you know,
Speaker 1: that I would be next. So had you been promiscuous?
Speaker 1: Not really, but you know, not even people that just
Speaker 1: had boyfriends or you know, they would get infected. No,
Speaker 1: I know, we all know a lot of people. The
Speaker 1: husband you have, now, how long have you been together
Speaker 1: with him? Thirty two years? Okay, let's park that for
Speaker 1: a second. You work for Bob Crew for two weeks
Speaker 1: for two years? How does it end with Bob Crew? Well,
Speaker 1: when my singles didn't take off, I think it was
Speaker 1: disappointing for him, you know, and disappointing for me. And
Speaker 1: I was also I mean, I remember, um, we're writing
Speaker 1: a song, and remember he wrote Lady Marmalade, so he
Speaker 1: was lucky with the word lady, and so we're writing
Speaker 1: something that had you know, baby maybe, and then he said,
Speaker 1: we'll sing lady. I said I can't. I can't sing lady.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if I'm not out, I'm just not
Speaker 1: not gonna sing lady. Ironically, I later wrote a song
Speaker 1: with ar Smith called Dude looks like a little right right, Okay, okay, whatever,
Speaker 1: and and I just burst out crying no because he
Speaker 1: was like bearing down on me. He says, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know how I wrote all those hits without you,
Speaker 1: you know, and all this stuff. And I just like,
Speaker 1: like like droplets of tears were It's like that movie
Speaker 1: about the Little drummer, remember Whiplash, you know, right right right?
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was he was wonderful. He
Speaker 1: was never mean like that, but he was strong. And
Speaker 1: he said, you know this is bullshit. You know, you know,
Speaker 1: sing lady. And I said I just cannot sing lady.
Speaker 1: And so um he when I started like crying, and
Speaker 1: all the frustration and maybe all the sadness of all
Speaker 1: my friends had died or everything, I just broke down
Speaker 1: and he came around. He gave me a hug and everything,
Speaker 1: and he was really like the you know, a father
Speaker 1: to me and um, and I think it was you know,
Speaker 1: I really felt like we had done our time. You know.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was being you know, disloyal, but
Speaker 1: it was like I couldn't go forward with him because
Speaker 1: I had all these other influences and feelings. And remember
Speaker 1: that punk music was in the air in New York
Speaker 1: and the Cure and all of that and all of
Speaker 1: those things were in my brain too that did not
Speaker 1: fit into his world. And so you know then you know,
Speaker 1: were part of ways. But I remember when I was
Speaker 1: producing Ricky Martin and I was doing strings in l
Speaker 1: A and he came to the session and he sat
Speaker 1: next to me, and uh, he was just like glowing,
Speaker 1: you know, just like so proud of me. You were
Speaker 1: protget Okay, when you were writing with him, did you
Speaker 1: both write lyrics and music? Yes, well I was playing
Speaker 1: the chords and kind of driving more than male lities,
Speaker 1: and he was more strong leaning on the lyrics. But
Speaker 1: I also was was it's hard keeping up with him,
Speaker 1: you know, just like now these days when I write
Speaker 1: with people, it's like it's hard for them to keep
Speaker 1: up with me because I already I wrote it. Oh,
Speaker 1: oh that's cool. That sounds really good. Okay, we'll sing that.
Speaker 1: You know, if you can, you do it. And also,
Speaker 1: you know you're inspired, so you don't want to hold
Speaker 1: yourself back to listen to somebody's kind of Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: well you have a nicer personality than me. I I
Speaker 1: can't handle that well. And you know, maybe why I
Speaker 1: work alone. So after Bob Crew, before bon Jovi, what's happening? Well,
Speaker 1: I mean I wrote a revolutionary song actually, which was
Speaker 1: a call I got from Jim Steinman and he was
Speaker 1: producing Bonnie Tyler after he had already had Total Eclipse
Speaker 1: of the Heart and then he time, of course legendary
Speaker 1: working bad out of hell. Yes, and so he had
Speaker 1: written um um, total Eclipse of the Heart for Bonnie Tyler,
Speaker 1: and so he said, I want you to write me
Speaker 1: a song. Okay, did you know Jim Steinman. No, but
Speaker 1: Mike Winston did, and so it's Winston still your manager,
Speaker 1: and so you know he um. He said, Okay, this
Speaker 1: is what I want. I want the verses to sound
Speaker 1: like Tina Turner. I want the B section to sound
Speaker 1: like the Police, Yeah, and then I want the chorus
Speaker 1: to sound like Bruce Springsteen. So I wrote this song
Speaker 1: called if You're a Woman and I was a man,
Speaker 1: and it started out with the chorus all a capella,
Speaker 1: you know, and um, it went, if you were a
Speaker 1: woman and I was a man, would it be so hot?
Speaker 1: To understand? That? A hot? It's a hot and you
Speaker 1: do what you can? If you were a woman and
Speaker 1: I was a man, do do do do do do
Speaker 1: do right? And I was playing, uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: I love that these dreams and Billy Jean at that time,
Speaker 1: so I was came up with a variation, you know,
Speaker 1: and the song completely went, you know, from style to
Speaker 1: from the style, and so she she had it as
Speaker 1: a hit only in one country, France. Okay, just so
Speaker 1: I know the uh you wrote it? He didn't get
Speaker 1: any co writing credit, He said, you wrote it. So
Speaker 1: I solely wrote the song. So it was a hit
Speaker 1: in France. And so when I went to write with
Speaker 1: bon Jovi, you know, I was piste off because I
Speaker 1: knew that I had a hit chorus. And so when
Speaker 1: I had the title, I came in with the title
Speaker 1: you give love a bad name? Where'd you get that from? Wait?
Speaker 1: Just one second, When you wrote the hit for Bonnie Tyler,
Speaker 1: how long did it take you to write it? Well,
Speaker 1: it took me a long time because I was trying
Speaker 1: to engineer and record everything myself. Okay, let let me
Speaker 1: ask you a different questions. Are you the type of
Speaker 1: person uh where it happens very fast or you get
Speaker 1: the idea and then it's developed faster or slow? How
Speaker 1: do you do it? Or you do it differently every time?
Speaker 1: Usually these days it usually takes me two days to
Speaker 1: write a song, co write a song with folks that
Speaker 1: are on my level of writing, okay, And by that time,
Speaker 1: if someone could take the demo right into the studio
Speaker 1: and just cut it just okay. So you walk into
Speaker 1: the house, Jon bon Jovi's on the phone, Richie takes
Speaker 1: you back downstairs, and you have you gave love a
Speaker 1: bad name from where I just came up with it
Speaker 1: because Bob had told me, had taught me how to
Speaker 1: write songs where the title had irony right, you know?
Speaker 1: And so I mean, were you just that the title
Speaker 1: comes to you in a shower or were you working
Speaker 1: hard to come up with something. I was preparing for
Speaker 1: my session and then I thought, well, you give love
Speaker 1: a bad name. Love bad opposites and already the tension
Speaker 1: of the opposite. You're curious, what is what's you know?
Speaker 1: Heavens on fire? Um, I was made for loving you.
Speaker 1: That's not so much. But uh, I hate myself for
Speaker 1: loving you. How can we be lovers if we can't
Speaker 1: be friends? You know? It goes on and on. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I've been really successful with with that technique. Okay,
Speaker 1: So now you're in the basement with Richie. What happens?
Speaker 1: So Richie brings me a glass of water, then he
Speaker 1: brings me a cup of coffee, and John still on
Speaker 1: the phone. So finally he comes down and um, you know,
Speaker 1: you know that you were talking and this and that,
Speaker 1: and I pull out the title you give Love a
Speaker 1: Bad Name. And that was my first glimpse of the
Speaker 1: billion dollar smile. It was like it was dark down there,
Speaker 1: but when that's mile head, it was like the room
Speaker 1: lit up. It was like, oh my god, he's a star,
Speaker 1: look at him. And so he had a song called
Speaker 1: We're talking about Richie Now John, Wait, wait, wait, just
Speaker 1: to be yea yeah, and we taught chichat. Then John
Speaker 1: finally comes down and he says, he was like, okay,
Speaker 1: what do you gott I got this title, and he
Speaker 1: his face just lit up, and so I was like,
Speaker 1: and you know, so he had a song on a
Speaker 1: previous album called Shot through the Heart, and he's not
Speaker 1: wanting to let a good hook go to waste either,
Speaker 1: so he threw down shot through the Heart and you
Speaker 1: to blame. And then the three of us said, you
Speaker 1: give love a bad name. And that was our first
Speaker 1: three fists in the air, you know, like high five moment.
Speaker 1: And uh. Then I started. I started contributing my hook
Speaker 1: from if You a Woman and I was a man
Speaker 1: because I just felt like, you know, I had that
Speaker 1: you know, kind of Jersey feeling right like because of
Speaker 1: the night. I gotta tell you funny story about Springstey night.
Speaker 1: I met him only one time and I said, hey,
Speaker 1: thanks for all those hits I wrote, and he just
Speaker 1: fell on the floor laughing because that, you know, that
Speaker 1: upward thing, like because the night and everything and so
Speaker 1: um so uh and so I I started playing again
Speaker 1: that do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do
Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do Do on the piano, and
Speaker 1: I and Richie's was like, no, hey man, no, that's
Speaker 1: that's like that's like Billy Jean that's like Michael Jackson stuff,
Speaker 1: I said, played on guitar, but like do it like chugs,
Speaker 1: like tight chugs. And then he went to John's second time,
Speaker 1: face lit up and the song just like flowed right out,
Speaker 1: right out, and then all of those lyrics that could
Speaker 1: not have been you know, I could not have been
Speaker 1: in that session without Bob Crewe on my shoulder, you know,
Speaker 1: you know, blood red nails on her fingertips, you know,
Speaker 1: all those descriptions that he was so good at, you know,
Speaker 1: creole lady marmalade, you know all of that. You know
Speaker 1: that's all built in, you know, to the that song
Speaker 1: and many others. Okay, so you'll write that song. Is
Speaker 1: it all written that day? Yeah? Okay? Was that the
Speaker 1: only song that day? Or yes, that was the only thing? Okay.
Speaker 1: So then they were so happy that then they called
Speaker 1: for another session. This time we did in New York City,
Speaker 1: and I borrowed an apartment that belonged to a friend
Speaker 1: of mine, Duck Schneider, And it was on twenty third
Speaker 1: Street or two street off Eighth Avenue, and it was
Speaker 1: just like this walk up and this and that, and
Speaker 1: there was this big old you know, broken down upright
Speaker 1: piano and where we wrote living on a Prayer? Okay,
Speaker 1: who wrote Johnny were used to working on the docks? Well,
Speaker 1: well that's the whole thing everybody brought there, stick to
Speaker 1: to the session. But because of the time that I
Speaker 1: lived with Maria on the Upper East Side where it
Speaker 1: was one of the most beautiful times, and she worked
Speaker 1: as a waitress at a place called Once upon a Stove,
Speaker 1: and she was a singing waitress. So all the singing
Speaker 1: waiters and waitresses had like fake names. So hers was
Speaker 1: Gina Velvet. So then everybody, we all just started calling
Speaker 1: her Gina, you know, because she reminded us of Gina
Speaker 1: Lila Bridgeta. And so I can I said, you know, um,
Speaker 1: the story of Johnny and Gina and Johnny because that's
Speaker 1: my original name. So I was sneaking myself into the song,
Speaker 1: and john said, I can't sing Johnny. People think I'm
Speaker 1: singing about myself. My name's Johnny. Was like Tommy. It
Speaker 1: was a song alike, and that's how Tommy and Gina
Speaker 1: was born. Okay, And then on that album, didn't you
Speaker 1: co write one more song? Three more? Okay? Well, it
Speaker 1: was like you give love a bad name? Living on
Speaker 1: a Prayer and then um, there were two others. Right, Okay,
Speaker 1: how long after you write those songs do they cut
Speaker 1: them in Vancouver? Months? Like next month. I mean they
Speaker 1: were like hustling. They had fifty songs and uh. One
Speaker 1: of the great things that they did, they like invented
Speaker 1: poloing or something. They would get all their friends, brothers
Speaker 1: and sisters from their high schools to all go into
Speaker 1: this little theater and then they play one song after
Speaker 1: the other and the kids would kind of like with
Speaker 1: their applause, they would judge which ones they liked better.
Speaker 1: They would play them live or player recording recording played
Speaker 1: the demos and they were like, okay, what do you
Speaker 1: think of that one? You know, it's like but when
Speaker 1: one was special, then they'd go crazy. They cut that one.
Speaker 1: So because John was serious about it's like, kids have
Speaker 1: to pick this record, kids have to want this record.
Speaker 1: It has to be what they want. And he was
Speaker 1: a kid himself, he's two and so these kids were
Speaker 1: almost his age. So it was like, uh, really, And
Speaker 1: I went to one of those sessions and it was great.
Speaker 1: But they they wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote
Speaker 1: and wrote to get those songs. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: one of the songs that we wrote for that UM
Speaker 1: for Slippery was a song called We All Sleep Alone.
Speaker 1: But John felt it was too um passive or feminine almost,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, we All Sleep Alone. It's like
Speaker 1: it had more gravitas when Share sang it because of
Speaker 1: her history and all that. And Um I was asked
Speaker 1: by John Kloner to produce Share because of my success,
Speaker 1: and so UM I had them co produced We All
Speaker 1: Sleep Alone and another song that was my from my childhood,
Speaker 1: Bang Bang, and I had gone down to Palm Springs
Speaker 1: to have Sunny bano I'll write an extra verse because
Speaker 1: that song originally was two minutes long. So he was
Speaker 1: so gracious and he you know, I went down there
Speaker 1: and I didn't contribute anything. I just like he did it.
Speaker 1: And then I went back and I cut it and
Speaker 1: we decided, you know, I wanted to do something. So
Speaker 1: it was heavy metal with that song. So and UM
Speaker 1: that was you know, you know that's when Richie mit
Speaker 1: Share and you know that became tabloid heaven and UM.
Speaker 1: So you know, that was like a wonderful time because
Speaker 1: you know, we had written these extra songs and so
Speaker 1: you know, I think we we had another song um
Speaker 1: that was cut by a Canadian band that they and cut.
Speaker 1: How did you feel about them leaving some of your
Speaker 1: songs off the record? I was happy they had one. Okay,
Speaker 1: So they go to Vancouver, they cut the record. Do
Speaker 1: you go to Vancouver? Went to Vancouver to do the
Speaker 1: last minute tweaking of the lyrics? Okay? And how long
Speaker 1: were you in Vancouver for maybe like four or five days? Briefly?
Speaker 1: How much did Bruce Fairburn contribute? I was never in
Speaker 1: the room when he was producing, so this I had
Speaker 1: to like wait till the end of the night, and
Speaker 1: then they'd show up back at the apartments that they had,
Speaker 1: and then after that we'd go to some strip joint. Right.
Speaker 1: So was it as wild as they said it was?
Speaker 1: It was wild, but it was normal. Why right? Okay?
Speaker 1: You know, So were you happy with Fairburn's production? I
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine them better, and they brought them to life
Speaker 1: like beyond my wildest dreams. And then later, of course,
Speaker 1: when I was writing with Arrowsmith, same thing. He brought
Speaker 1: the those songs like to a whole other level. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest tragedies in music that we
Speaker 1: lost him, And you know, it's not that often that
Speaker 1: I'm you know, listening to a song that I wrote
Speaker 1: that didn't turn out well. You know, I'm usually producing
Speaker 1: these days of songs that I write. But you know,
Speaker 1: he like topped it, and that showed in a way
Speaker 1: that it's like sometimes having an objective person come in
Speaker 1: can really, you know, be so much better. And a
Speaker 1: good example is I wrote a song with Antonina Our
Speaker 1: Motto and Tim James Rock Mafia called Beautiful Now, and
Speaker 1: they took it to Z and I mean it was
Speaker 1: the same song and everything, but what Z did to it,
Speaker 1: he brought it to a whole other level. And I
Speaker 1: couldn't have been more pleased. So when you work with
Speaker 1: people that have taste and know what they're doing, they're
Speaker 1: not going to create something that's bad. Okay, so the
Speaker 1: record is done. Do you have any idea it's gonna
Speaker 1: be the monster that it is? Slippery went went No.
Speaker 1: I just thought there was just like another band from
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I knew we had some good songs, and
Speaker 1: I didn't. I had no idea. But you know, it's
Speaker 1: like one of those things Bob Crewe would always talk
Speaker 1: about what is a star and you look up in
Speaker 1: the sky and you see this extra bright star and
Speaker 1: then later you find out, well, no, those were ten
Speaker 1: stars all lined up. So he said, okay, first you
Speaker 1: have the masthead, which is the actual person, then the song,
Speaker 1: then the management or the production than the management, the
Speaker 1: pr guy, the record company, how much money they put
Speaker 1: into it, dada. And when they all line up, you know,
Speaker 1: and someone's in their moment, fantastic things can happen, and
Speaker 1: that's really rare, and and you know, I've been part
Speaker 1: of some of those moments, and so I think the
Speaker 1: key to begin with is that the song has to
Speaker 1: really fit the arc type of the person singing it
Speaker 1: in a very deep way. And I learned that from
Speaker 1: my acting coach, Sondra Secat, because when she would be
Speaker 1: analyzing scripts and characters and trying to merge an actor
Speaker 1: into a part, like trying to really establish, well, what
Speaker 1: is the arch type of the actor just as a person,
Speaker 1: what's the art type of the character. The closer you
Speaker 1: can get some somebody to be the same thing, the
Speaker 1: stronger the performance is going to be. Because we're hardwired.
Speaker 1: Just like thinking there's a snake in the corner, we're
Speaker 1: hardwired wired to recognize universal archetypes from history. So you know,
Speaker 1: so I always explained this. So you have an arch
Speaker 1: type John bon Jovi, he's like the warrior, you know,
Speaker 1: He's he's like the guy next door. He's all sunshine
Speaker 1: and like go and fight for the cause. And then
Speaker 1: you have the devil and that's Alice Cooper, the dark
Speaker 1: you know, and so all those you know, archetypes are
Speaker 1: within everybody, and we love to see them outside of ourselves.
Speaker 1: Like just like in tribes, they wore masks and they
Speaker 1: played characters because it's fulfilled something inside us. That's what
Speaker 1: I believe. So when I work with the people that
Speaker 1: are trying to find themselves, I try to like, let's
Speaker 1: get down to, like what's your arc type? Who are you?
Speaker 1: You know, there was always Venus, and then there was
Speaker 1: Gene Harlow, and then there was Marilyn Monroe. Then there
Speaker 1: was Gwen Stefani. Right, who's Medusa, you know, Joan Crawford, Madonna,
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga, she actually wears snakes on you know. So
Speaker 1: when somebody's like close and there's it's so fulfilling, like
Speaker 1: silence of the lamps, like the serial killer, we just
Speaker 1: can't wait to see him back on the screen. So
Speaker 1: I always bear that in mind. And usually when you
Speaker 1: when you have an instinct like that, all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: the person starts to find themselves because what happens is
Speaker 1: they get signed because maybe this kid looks like Justin Bieber,
Speaker 1: and then the competing label thinks, well, he's got the
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber hair do and maybe the same kids will
Speaker 1: like him too. So much happens like that, and they think,
Speaker 1: well sometimes and it can work sometimes. You know, you
Speaker 1: have the Beatles and you have the Monkeys, right and
Speaker 1: so um, that's not being an artist. And I always
Speaker 1: try to tell the people I work with it's like,
Speaker 1: don't you want occur real? Like Shade, there's no one
Speaker 1: like that. She can make a record every eight years
Speaker 1: and it's a hit. She doesn't care because she's living
Speaker 1: her life, and then she writes about it and in time,
Speaker 1: those little strands become what she offers. I mean, you
Speaker 1: want people to come to a market that's only you.
Speaker 1: That's the best kind of career to have, and then
Speaker 1: it's forever and then you're not you know, you're not
Speaker 1: chasing empty dreams. And you know that's the thing that's
Speaker 1: not taught. I mean, for the last thirty years we've
Speaker 1: had the arts pulled from the schools. Where does somebody
Speaker 1: even see a picture of a Michelangelo or anything in
Speaker 1: public schools out there? How do they start to build
Speaker 1: the feeling of like, oh, that's my place in this world.
Speaker 1: I'm an artist, I'm here too, you know, reflect my
Speaker 1: times and also something deeper, innate that I have to
Speaker 1: do for my own evolution as a person. Those thoughts
Speaker 1: don't come into things. It's like, Okay, I love that
Speaker 1: beat from that song. Pull up that beat, Come on,
Speaker 1: come on, pull up the beat. Let's just put the
Speaker 1: chords from this other song. And but what are they
Speaker 1: talking about there? Okay, let's flip it and make it
Speaker 1: something like that. And okay, yeah, you might get the
Speaker 1: song cut. But does it change the course of pop music?
Speaker 1: Does it matter? Does it does it heal the world?
Speaker 1: Or do something you know that's necessary for the evolution
Speaker 1: of humanity or or a plan. I mean, those sounds
Speaker 1: like really grand things. Let's happen. Forget about humanity, the
Speaker 1: evolution of that person. He chooses that career so he
Speaker 1: can bring something out that he desperately has to say
Speaker 1: they're so rare people that are authentic. I could go
Speaker 1: on and on about this, and you articulated brilliantly, and
Speaker 1: you give me insight. Let me go to a nitty
Speaker 1: gritty that really does not square with that, but it's reality. Okay,
Speaker 1: you've had a lot of success on every level. If
Speaker 1: you're following your dream, frequently in the arts, you're starving.
Speaker 1: Many people are unwilling to starve and so therefore they
Speaker 1: never developed their artistry. What is the key to perseverance? Well,
Speaker 1: I know because like we were so poor, and my
Speaker 1: mother was kind of like Blanche Dubois Cuban, you know,
Speaker 1: like poet, but she was also had a hustle that
Speaker 1: was like Angelica Houston and the Grifters. She dressed me
Speaker 1: up in a little suit and we she she had
Speaker 1: one dress, and we go to a cocktail party and
Speaker 1: we would troll that cocktail party for a millionaire. Uh
Speaker 1: that would you know see a built in family ready
Speaker 1: to make him look good. Because my mother was very beautiful.
Speaker 1: She wasn't successful at it. But the hustle Okay, now
Speaker 1: you say this, you say that, so there's a hustle
Speaker 1: when you when you're born poor, you know, but I
Speaker 1: think there's something also that people know in certain genres.
Speaker 1: Who's real, who's cool, what's what's what has it? And
Speaker 1: it's you can't you can't fool people. I agree with everything. Well,
Speaker 1: let's park that, but the hustle has to be there,
Speaker 1: not only outwardly to connect the dots, absolutely inwardly. Inwardly
Speaker 1: more important than the world comes to you if you're
Speaker 1: beaming with something that needs to be out there. Okay,
Speaker 1: that album comes out slippery. When webb, it's like an
Speaker 1: instant success, it's mega, goes on for the better part
Speaker 1: of two years. What do you think about? What about them? No?
Speaker 1: You know you're gonna get a big pay day? B
Speaker 1: is the phone start ringing off the hook? Well? I
Speaker 1: tried to make the most of it because remember that
Speaker 1: at that time and for decades before, I don't think ever,
Speaker 1: there was an out producer, so there was a real
Speaker 1: glass ceiling. So the bands would be okay being co
Speaker 1: writer because it was inequality there. But when you're the producer,
Speaker 1: you're the boss ultimately, and you have to get in
Speaker 1: there and dick slap these people into shape. And that's
Speaker 1: something that they just their homophobia or whatever couldn't permit
Speaker 1: a gay man to be the off of them. So
Speaker 1: for you know, I couldn't ever get one of those
Speaker 1: bands to let me be the producer, even though I
Speaker 1: heard albums they made with other producers like are you
Speaker 1: kidding me? I could have made a masterpiece here? What
Speaker 1: what is this? And so you know, they gave me
Speaker 1: the kind of what I call the weirdos, the androgynous people,
Speaker 1: soul l artists. Um, my first production was Ronnie Specter
Speaker 1: and then you know Share and Alice Cooper, Joan Jet. Okay, no,
Speaker 1: so okay, wait, wait who did you want to be?
Speaker 1: Do you want to be a producer, a songwriter and
Speaker 1: artist or where what's the hierarchy there? No? I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a star myself. I wanted to be a superstar,
Speaker 1: but I didn't have the confidence because of my own issues,
Speaker 1: you know, and I was I was having so much
Speaker 1: success that I didn't want to stop it. I said, well,
Speaker 1: when I'm rich and then my mother's safe and we're
Speaker 1: all good, then I'll try then then then my moment
Speaker 1: will come. But so many things got in the way,
Speaker 1: you know, and life got in the way, and I
Speaker 1: was just like I didn't in the end, I didn't.
Speaker 1: I'm very thin skinned. I didn't have the confidence, and um,
Speaker 1: so I think that. And also I was so good
Speaker 1: at looking outside of myself and pinpointing. Well, like I
Speaker 1: could see somebody, I could see the stars around them,
Speaker 1: and then I could see the dark cloud in front
Speaker 1: of the stars. And I was good at like scraping
Speaker 1: away stuff to get to how that person could shine.
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it for myself. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: I made an album that I'm not that happy about
Speaker 1: in nine called Discipline, and I was just so desperate
Speaker 1: to be a star that and I didn't have a
Speaker 1: producer and I didn't have anybody to dick slap me into,
Speaker 1: like what, And I wasn't out on that record. It
Speaker 1: was like a lie in a way, you know, I was.
Speaker 1: I think I'm a good singer, you know, I really,
Speaker 1: I think I've finally actually gotten good. You know. It
Speaker 1: took me a long time to really when singing connect
Speaker 1: and not try to think, well is it as good
Speaker 1: as this is that, because that's what goes through people's minds.
Speaker 1: So now when I'm you know, on the other side
Speaker 1: of the glass, you know, finally am my age I'm
Speaker 1: able to, like, you know, sing with soul, you know,
Speaker 1: but it took me a lot, very my whole life. Okay,
Speaker 1: you write the bon Jovie songs? Do you start or
Speaker 1: your managers start getting a lot of inquiries about people
Speaker 1: and the right. Yeah, they wanted my songs, but didn't
Speaker 1: want me to produce them. Okay, so what did you
Speaker 1: do well? Like, for instance, um, Mike great friend now
Speaker 1: Jason Flam he had a girl singer that he was
Speaker 1: trying to promote, and he had heard my song, just
Speaker 1: like Jesse James, and wanted to cut it. And I
Speaker 1: had written it for Bonnie Tyler because I ended up
Speaker 1: producing Bonnie Tyland. That's a whole wonderful story. Um, but
Speaker 1: this was a song that Bonnie wouldn't sing because she
Speaker 1: was embarrassed. Her mother would think it was too suggestive,
Speaker 1: you know, walking into town slinging a gun, smalltown dude
Speaker 1: with a big city attitude. Just that was enough to
Speaker 1: say Bonnie didn't cut it. So he had heard it
Speaker 1: and wanted it desperately. I said, but I have to
Speaker 1: produce it, and no, no, no, you know, because we
Speaker 1: remember Atlantic Records and all that it was, you know,
Speaker 1: like that book right, you know, So I was you know,
Speaker 1: it's still like pushed down and um. And so I
Speaker 1: cut it with Share and we had a hit, you know,
Speaker 1: and um. But I think that that's how it was.
Speaker 1: It was like I have to produce it or you
Speaker 1: don't get the song. So then okay, and then you know,
Speaker 1: look at with Alice Cooper, you know, I I produced
Speaker 1: that record Poison Poison, that we co wrote together, and
Speaker 1: I brought all the successful people I was working with
Speaker 1: at the time, Bon Joviero Smith, Jone jet Um, you know,
Speaker 1: and then he had Kick Winger and Kane Roberts and
Speaker 1: all these people. They all contributed to the record and
Speaker 1: it was a wonderful theatrical piece and that song Poison.
Speaker 1: Listening back to it now, it's like, how I'm good.
Speaker 1: It was the first hitting Yeah, but just in terms
Speaker 1: of rock, it was like really evil sounding and it
Speaker 1: was just like exactly what his art type needed to be. Okay,
Speaker 1: how'd you end up working with Aero Smith John Kalodner
Speaker 1: who had hired Meat for Share? So just so I know,
Speaker 1: do you had not made a record for Klanter before
Speaker 1: you got the producing gig Share? Yeah, And he called
Speaker 1: you do you were you like the first what did
Speaker 1: he call and say? Were you like the first call?
Speaker 1: Called Winston? So my manager, right new Field fielded everything
Speaker 1: and um, and we had already you know, had success
Speaker 1: with Share. But he started seeing the success of bon
Speaker 1: Jovi and all that. So and we wait, wait wait,
Speaker 1: I mean he had had success with Cheer you have
Speaker 1: no no, no, no no. He hired me two work
Speaker 1: with Share, right, and I started delivering. Okay, that's what
Speaker 1: I wanted to know. Yeah, And so then I was
Speaker 1: having the number one with bon Jovi. So he he
Speaker 1: had made a record with them called Done with Mirrors,
Speaker 1: which was a total stiff, total stuff. And they were,
Speaker 1: you know, Tim Collins was really trying to get them all,
Speaker 1: you know sober, and the wives sober, and the Roodie sober,
Speaker 1: and everybody was in meetings all the time, and you
Speaker 1: know it was like a cult. And so he made
Speaker 1: them meet with me. So I flew to Boston. I
Speaker 1: got brought to this big warehouse where they had the
Speaker 1: stage set up, you know, the mic stand with all
Speaker 1: the whatever multicolor scarps. But on the floor, you know,
Speaker 1: on the floor level, there were there was an army
Speaker 1: of guitars must have been a hundred guitars, all with
Speaker 1: their own straps that matched the guitar, like Sparkles, Tiger, Leopard, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Fenders, get you know, Gibson's Unique Ones, Vintage ones,
Speaker 1: I mean all like it must have been like six rows,
Speaker 1: you know, with twenty guitars each. I mean, it was
Speaker 1: like crazy. And then on the side of the stage,
Speaker 1: I could see the sound man that did this, the
Speaker 1: stage sound on the side, and Joe was over there
Speaker 1: and they were running a loop. They were putting a
Speaker 1: guitar loop backwards right, and Stephen was the one that
Speaker 1: you know big you know warehouse doors. It opened up
Speaker 1: and you can see the coming through and Stephen comes
Speaker 1: in towards the door and he's you know, warm, and
Speaker 1: you know he's a people pleaser and just you know,
Speaker 1: it was nice. And so he brought me up. I
Speaker 1: still hadn't said anything, and he said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And so Joe played
Speaker 1: the loop and it was Antona and Data and Data
Speaker 1: an donna and remind me of boogie woogie or like
Speaker 1: whatever from back in the day, right like it was
Speaker 1: harmonica or something, and uh, Steven started singing it was
Speaker 1: like Danna and Donna cruising for the lightest data and
Speaker 1: Dada cruising for the latest. And then he stood back
Speaker 1: and he says, what do you think of that? And
Speaker 1: I said, I think that's really bad and it was
Speaker 1: like that was my opening line, and Joe like crossed
Speaker 1: his arms and he was like looking at me. I
Speaker 1: mean he poses that way anyway, looking with his head back.
Speaker 1: I squinty, looking sideways and um, you know. Uh. Stephen
Speaker 1: was like trying to rescue the situation, and I said,
Speaker 1: you know, Van Halen wouldn't put that on the B
Speaker 1: side of their worst record, and they were like what.
Speaker 1: I just needed to capture their attention and kind of
Speaker 1: shocked them into taking me seriously or throw me out,
Speaker 1: you know, the throwing out could have it could have
Speaker 1: gone that way. And then Stephen, who's the people pleaser,
Speaker 1: said well, very sheepishly. When I first started singing that hook,
Speaker 1: I was singing, dude looks like a lady. I said, what,
Speaker 1: dude looks like a lady? And I said that's a
Speaker 1: hit title because it had the Bob Crue ring dude
Speaker 1: looks like a lady. It had everything, you know, cruising
Speaker 1: for the ladies. What sounds that strip top down in
Speaker 1: a cadillact. We've seen that story, right, David Lee Roth,
Speaker 1: the millions of those, you know, and um but and
Speaker 1: Joe said, yeah, but we don't know what that means.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I'm gay, I know what that means.
Speaker 1: And he goes and so so, you know, I said,
Speaker 1: bear with me, come on, let's tell the story. So
Speaker 1: we you know, I said, how did you come up
Speaker 1: with that? And he said, well, we had you know,
Speaker 1: gone after hours. You know, everybody's on, you know, in
Speaker 1: the program. So we were having our sodas and stuff
Speaker 1: at this bar and there was, you know, at the
Speaker 1: end of the empty bar, just sitting on the end
Speaker 1: was this vision of beauty, this giant blond, teased up
Speaker 1: hair and white skin and black nails and you know,
Speaker 1: curvy and all, you know, very sexy. And then uh
Speaker 1: and so they were all like drawing straws, you know,
Speaker 1: because they were all you know, married. But there was
Speaker 1: a single Roadie or something. Okay, go over there and
Speaker 1: say say hello. So at that moment she turns a
Speaker 1: round and faces them, and it's Vince Neil of Motley Crewe.
Speaker 1: And that's when they were like, oh, that dude looks
Speaker 1: like a lady. That dude looks like a lady. Dude
Speaker 1: looks like a lady. And that's where he came up
Speaker 1: with it. So it's really funny because because because then
Speaker 1: I said, okay, so let's write the story. So the
Speaker 1: whole verses like, walked into a bar on the shore,
Speaker 1: her picture grace, the grime on the door. Could not
Speaker 1: have written that without Bob Crew, her picture, Grace, the grind,
Speaker 1: all the alliteration, bar on the shore, picture Grace, the
Speaker 1: grime on the door. And then Stephen threw and she
Speaker 1: was a long lost love at first bite whatever and so,
Speaker 1: which was a kind of confusing line because then it
Speaker 1: sounded like he had been with her before, and so
Speaker 1: I tried to stop it, but he loved the way
Speaker 1: the line sounded. He wouldn't change it. And so, so
Speaker 1: the fantastic thing about the song is that a normal
Speaker 1: band would have just like said, well, and then you know,
Speaker 1: I ran out of there, you know, because you know
Speaker 1: that's just too weird. But in this song, no, this
Speaker 1: the main character stays, you know, let me take a
Speaker 1: peep peek dear, you know, I like it, like it
Speaker 1: like it like that my funky lady, and so he
Speaker 1: doesn't run away. So the second verse, never judge a
Speaker 1: book by its cover or who are you gonna love
Speaker 1: by your lover? And if that isn't like LGBT acceptance,
Speaker 1: and it's like like, if it looks good, go for it, man.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, it's like don't you know, don't
Speaker 1: stop yourself from going with what you're feeling inside and
Speaker 1: and accept everybody and all that kind of stuff. Because
Speaker 1: later on the song became controversial because it was like
Speaker 1: not politically correct us to say the word tranny or
Speaker 1: you know all you know, all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: But you know, I think if you look at that
Speaker 1: second verse which they used and missus doubtfire and the
Speaker 1: broom dance, it's like a song of acceptance. And it
Speaker 1: was like everybody in the world got a smile when
Speaker 1: they heard it, and so it brought them back. And
Speaker 1: it's funny. Uh. A few years ago, when we were
Speaker 1: doing some work at our house, like the workman came
Speaker 1: came up to me and he said, you wrote with Aerosmith,
Speaker 1: you wrote my favorite song, Do a Naked Lady. It's
Speaker 1: like do a Naked that's what he here. That was
Speaker 1: his story in his head, you know. So I just
Speaker 1: got such a kick out of that. But when Stephen
Speaker 1: went to write his his autobiography, he spent like two
Speaker 1: our pages, two or three pages talking about the creation
Speaker 1: of dude looks like a Lady. And he painted me
Speaker 1: out to be like Juan Valdez. So well, he was Latino.
Speaker 1: He had a handlebar mustache like I was wanting. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like like a worker from the fields. That was
Speaker 1: like whatever. First of all, I never had like a
Speaker 1: mustache on its own, not even in the seventies when
Speaker 1: it was cool, like you know. And then um, then
Speaker 1: and then he said, well, you know I already had
Speaker 1: the song written, doesn't mention cruising for the ladies? And
Speaker 1: um um. You know, Desmond contribute a few little things
Speaker 1: to the verses, but you know, and you know, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: we just let him put his name on the song whatever.
Speaker 1: And so then Joe co Co writes his book with
Speaker 1: David Ritz and says, well, Desmond's the one who came
Speaker 1: up with dude looks like a Lady. We could not
Speaker 1: have written that song without that title. And it's like,
Speaker 1: wait a second, So I've co written my book with
Speaker 1: David Ritz and I set the record straight. But I
Speaker 1: was working with Joe and he was recording a song
Speaker 1: called Red, White and New in my studio Nashville, and
Speaker 1: I sat him down and one of my writers had
Speaker 1: written the song. Levi hummed, and so I sat him down. Okay,
Speaker 1: this is how we wrote the song. And I told
Speaker 1: him the story and he goes, oh, I like your
Speaker 1: story better than mine, but you wrote a book about it.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna set there. Who are you gonna believe me?
Speaker 1: Are these you know rehab rockers? Man? Okay? Did you
Speaker 1: ever confront Tyler about it? That's who I'm talking about. Tyler. No, no, no, Tyler,
Speaker 1: like you know, said I like your story better than mine.
Speaker 1: But it's like and to Joe, it's like I didn't
Speaker 1: come up with the title, Stephen did. It's like you
Speaker 1: got it all wrong, you guys, you know, but you
Speaker 1: know it all worked out and I'm going to set
Speaker 1: the record straight in my book. Okay, So you're right there.
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write the record?
Speaker 1: Write the song? We wrote it that day, wrote it
Speaker 1: that day that day. What did Klodner say, because he
Speaker 1: was totally hands on. Well, they had to make the
Speaker 1: demo and whatnot, and I wasn't there when they did,
Speaker 1: so it took a while for him to finally hear
Speaker 1: the batch of songs. The next day, I walked in
Speaker 1: and Joe didn't come in. You know, he was like,
Speaker 1: I don't think he was comfortable, right, So, uh, no
Speaker 1: one was there, not even the roadies. And I go
Speaker 1: into that big thing and there was a little keyboard
Speaker 1: like in front of the stage like butt it up
Speaker 1: right to the to the wall of the state and
Speaker 1: the stage was above us and it was like a
Speaker 1: little Wilitzer and there was like a little bench and
Speaker 1: then he sat next to me and I, you know,
Speaker 1: I started in like I do kind of like tell
Speaker 1: me about your life. What have you been going through?
Speaker 1: Da da da da da, you know, trying to draw
Speaker 1: something out, and he said, well, I met this woman Teresa,
Speaker 1: and she really, you know, she saved me. I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was, just Tyler. This is Tyler.
Speaker 1: What I would be without her? You know, she's she's
Speaker 1: she's she's an angel, She's my angel. And then when
Speaker 1: he said the word angel, I saw those bloodubber lips
Speaker 1: and it was like Mick Jaggers saying angey real. And
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, I have to get him
Speaker 1: to have those blubber lips just like just like Jagger
Speaker 1: saying angel. And so I talked him into, you know,
Speaker 1: writing this song to Teresa, You're my Angel, come and
Speaker 1: save me tonight. We wrote that song literally that was
Speaker 1: forty five minutes. And then, um, I mean it just
Speaker 1: like flowed just like that everything about it. And um,
Speaker 1: that song made it on the record and it was
Speaker 1: like their second single, and um, I don't I didn't
Speaker 1: get that much played and shows and stuff till recently.
Speaker 1: I don't know if they went back to it or not,
Speaker 1: but I did see a show where they did do it,
Speaker 1: but maybe that's because they knew I was there. But um,
Speaker 1: you know, it was like way more pop than they
Speaker 1: were comfortable with. And you know, I was really the
Speaker 1: first outside person to co with them, you know. And
Speaker 1: and I think I kind of like almost invented a
Speaker 1: career because before, you know, it was like not cool
Speaker 1: for for bands to write with outside people, but maybe
Speaker 1: they take a suggestion from a producer who would get
Speaker 1: their name on it, but for a professional songwriter to
Speaker 1: come in like a consultant and um, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: then do that that was not a career that was happening.
Speaker 1: And when people saw the success I was happening having
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people that had tried to
Speaker 1: be stars or this or that jumped into that, you know,
Speaker 1: and started doing the same thing as me. And then
Speaker 1: I'd start to see their names, you know, like Mark
Speaker 1: Hudson and people like that appear on the same with
Speaker 1: the same bands that I was working with. Okay, let's
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. So you're from Miami. Yeah,
Speaker 1: were you born in Miami? I was born in Gainesville, Florida. Okay,
Speaker 1: your parents. You say you're father was Hungary and he
Speaker 1: literally came from Hungary. Yes, But my mother was married
Speaker 1: to an American geologist and she went from Cuba two
Speaker 1: Ecuador and then Venezuela and lived in oil camps with
Speaker 1: you know, her husband, who was sixteen years older than her.
Speaker 1: And she's you know, she looked like an American movie star.
Speaker 1: She was kind of tall, so she didn't really fit
Speaker 1: in with other more Latina girls that were smaller and
Speaker 1: and all that. She and she was very kind of
Speaker 1: there was something about her that was androgynous, and so
Speaker 1: even though she was so beautiful, I mean, she would
Speaker 1: she would prefer talking to men. She would sit with
Speaker 1: their legs open, you know, like sit like a man
Speaker 1: or something like that. She was like that, and she
Speaker 1: was hanging around Tennessee williams Uh and people like that
Speaker 1: and the this is the late forties, early fifties in Havana.
Speaker 1: And so she she found this American and she thought
Speaker 1: it was her last chance. She was twenty three and
Speaker 1: everyone said she was going to be a spinster. So
Speaker 1: she marries this guy who really, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think he knew what he was getting into because she
Speaker 1: was full of energy and laughter. And then um, he
Speaker 1: had his mother who was like um, Maggie Smith, who
Speaker 1: was an english woman from Manchester, England, and who didn't
Speaker 1: speak Spanish, and she didn't like my mother at all.
Speaker 1: So my mother was miserable, miserable, miserable, living in an
Speaker 1: oil camp in Venezuela. So on Wednesdays she would go
Speaker 1: on a ferry boat to the main little town, which
Speaker 1: is like the wild West, but there was a movie
Speaker 1: theater and there'd be an American film, so she'd go.
Speaker 1: And so one day she walked in the movie theater
Speaker 1: was empty, so she went and sat down and she
Speaker 1: it was National Velvet with Elizabeth Taylor. And then this
Speaker 1: man came in and sat next to her in the
Speaker 1: empty theater and just started looking at her. And he
Speaker 1: was handsome. He looked like Errol Flynn, a movie star,
Speaker 1: Carrie Grant or something like that. And so they went
Speaker 1: and had coffee and they began. Every Wednesday, she would
Speaker 1: go in and then they would hook up. And so
Speaker 1: in one of those I was conceived. And so when
Speaker 1: she just to be clear, is that your Hungarian father? Okay,
Speaker 1: what was he doing in Venezuela. He went in with
Speaker 1: immigrants that that we're all traveling around, you know, um
Speaker 1: because remember that Russia took over, so even you know,
Speaker 1: so he was hanging around with Jewish um families and
Speaker 1: he you know, he wasn't Jewish, but he was you know,
Speaker 1: like comfortable, you know, and they were all building businesses.
Speaker 1: And he started building oil platforms out of cement and
Speaker 1: that was his business. And so you know, so you know,
Speaker 1: in those days, remember if you went to town, you
Speaker 1: were a suit and tie and all of that is
Speaker 1: this is and I was conceived on her birthday, January
Speaker 1: I was born exactly nine months later. So one day
Speaker 1: she stopped coming and he would wait for that ferry boat,
Speaker 1: and then he'd wait the next Wednesday, and she wasn't coming.
Speaker 1: She wasn't coming, she wasn't coming, and he started getting
Speaker 1: like really uptight. He was really in love with her.
Speaker 1: So he takes the ferry boat to the other side,
Speaker 1: goes to the oil camp and they said, oh, no,
Speaker 1: they moved away. Where did they move We not allowed
Speaker 1: to give you that information. And so they had moved
Speaker 1: to Gainesville, Florida, and he got a job as a
Speaker 1: teacher at the Florida University Florida State University or whatever,
Speaker 1: and they had a dairy ranch. He bought a dairy ranch.
Speaker 1: This is my mother's husband, John Barrett. And so my father,
Speaker 1: who was desperate, went to Havana and from little clues
Speaker 1: that she had said in their time together, he tried
Speaker 1: to track her down. So he went to the Hotel
Speaker 1: Nacional and he looked across the barney, thought he sorry,
Speaker 1: ran up to her and um, it was her sister,
Speaker 1: because they were all very similar looking. And uh, she
Speaker 1: was at that time the mistress of the dictator Bautista,
Speaker 1: this is babe, and she was like the eight girl
Speaker 1: of Havana and um. So he gave her a letter
Speaker 1: on the stationary and she put it inside her own
Speaker 1: letter and sent it to Hathorne. And they went back
Speaker 1: and forth like that, first to Cuba, then to him,
Speaker 1: and you know, like that and uh. Then finally they
Speaker 1: agreed to meet in Miami Beach in a little hotel
Speaker 1: off of seventy one Street that ultimately was where kunan
Speaker 1: and was hiding, right was before he did the rassade thing.
Speaker 1: And that they were together six days and that was
Speaker 1: the only time we were ever a family. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: in those six days, he'd already been born. I was
Speaker 1: six months old, So I mean that whole process I got.
Speaker 1: So then he felt like he had convinced her that
Speaker 1: she would leave her husband because I had his child.
Speaker 1: And so she said, she said, okay, I'll do We'll
Speaker 1: do that. She said, come in thirty days to pick
Speaker 1: me up in the farm and and that will give
Speaker 1: me a chance to you know, deal with him and
Speaker 1: pack all my things and all this kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: So he went there and in a car that he
Speaker 1: rent a car, and then his brother was driving a
Speaker 1: U haul and they show up and she was like
Speaker 1: she still hadn't told her husband. She couldn't deal with it.
Speaker 1: She was like a wreck because she was afraid of
Speaker 1: what her family would think of her. And so he
Speaker 1: was there talking to her, and we had and the
Speaker 1: brother was taking pictures really cinematic and I'm like playing
Speaker 1: on the floor. And then the husband comes home and
Speaker 1: he's like, who are these men? And so she was
Speaker 1: like and tear She went into the house and she
Speaker 1: locked herself in the bathroom. And then um, you know,
Speaker 1: my biological father, Joe Marphy and Mr Barrett went for
Speaker 1: a long walk, and according to my father, he was like,
Speaker 1: because they had already been having a lot of trouble
Speaker 1: and everything, he said, okay, you know, take her, take
Speaker 1: the kid, just get out of here. But you know,
Speaker 1: my mother told a different story that she said, you
Speaker 1: can take her, but you have to leave the kid,
Speaker 1: which is an impossible thing, like he would never have said.
Speaker 1: So she refused to go, and so then they and
Speaker 1: then Mr Barrett told Uh Marphy, Joe Marphy that never
Speaker 1: to try to contact them again, to just leave and
Speaker 1: never never come back. So then he went back to Venezuela, heartbroken,
Speaker 1: and he married um Um Holocaust survivor, and they began
Speaker 1: their family and all of that, and then, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: eventually it didn't work out of course with Mr Barrett,
Speaker 1: so she moved to Miami and then she recontacted him,
Speaker 1: but he had already married. So it's like their their
Speaker 1: ships didn't cross. But when I when I didn't find
Speaker 1: out about this story until I had turned eighteen. Really yeah,
Speaker 1: so I thought the other guy was my father. So
Speaker 1: then when I was eighteen, my biological father insisted to
Speaker 1: tell me. So I was already living in Woodstock, I
Speaker 1: had dropped out of school, and I was, you know,
Speaker 1: working at Bearsville as the coffee boy and um making
Speaker 1: my first demo with Van Morrison's band and with Virgil
Speaker 1: night Child was going to ride High and we went
Speaker 1: to see seymour Stein and he was the first executive.
Speaker 1: We we went down to New York and he just
Speaker 1: started Siren and so, uh, he said, meet me in
Speaker 1: New York. So I met him and it was like
Speaker 1: a Luke Skywalker moment. Says he said, do you know
Speaker 1: you know why I've always kind of come around and
Speaker 1: all that? And then then he says, because I am
Speaker 1: your father. You know, it was like it was like
Speaker 1: a bucket of ice cold water, and then everything made sense.
Speaker 1: And so from that moment on, he gave me money
Speaker 1: to be able to drive back to Miami because we
Speaker 1: were flat broke and um. Then he put me through college.
Speaker 1: I went to community college and I graduated from n
Speaker 1: y U. Really, yeah, okay, you're in school. Let's go
Speaker 1: back to green school. Your mother ever find another guy? Oh?
Speaker 1: She had many other men, okay, but none she married.
Speaker 1: She married some how did you feel about that? It
Speaker 1: was a terrible time. Remember we lived in the projects
Speaker 1: of Liberty City, and she was, you know, working, and
Speaker 1: she couldn't hold a job more than three weeks. And
Speaker 1: she worked at Burger King and she'd come home at
Speaker 1: night with these like whoppers that nobody ate. So we
Speaker 1: would take the tops and then throw away the bottoms
Speaker 1: and make one that was because it was they were
Speaker 1: like mushy, and that's how we that's when we'd eat,
Speaker 1: and you know, eleven'clock at night, and or it was
Speaker 1: cereal and milk and stuff like that. It was really
Speaker 1: poor and very dangerous place. But the beauty of all
Speaker 1: these things is that I was playing on the swing sets,
Speaker 1: you know, with you know, children of all races, and
Speaker 1: there was always the R and B station that was playing,
Speaker 1: and so I was listening to Aretha Franklin whistling pickt
Speaker 1: and all of these records that were different than what
Speaker 1: would would hear on TV or all of that. So
Speaker 1: soul and all of that, it really got into into
Speaker 1: my bones. Okay, you go to elementary school, you go
Speaker 1: to high school, you fit in you and outsider, what
Speaker 1: kind of I'm like. I went to my um, I
Speaker 1: was poor and all that, but I started growing. I
Speaker 1: started tending towards like the hippie and the spiritual cults
Speaker 1: and gurus and health food and you know all of
Speaker 1: that yoga and Rosa Christian Crucian and Sachia Nanda and
Speaker 1: I went through all of these things. And I would
Speaker 1: wear all white and then I would have like long
Speaker 1: hair and beads and sandals and stuff. And I went
Speaker 1: to my high school reunion my fort and people came
Speaker 1: up to me and well, first of all, no one
Speaker 1: invited me to any parties, nothing. And I started hanging
Speaker 1: around with the weirdos, the people that would eventually finally
Speaker 1: realized they were gay or artists are just like offbeat, right,
Speaker 1: and so, um, that's where I met Virgil, and so
Speaker 1: I moved to a hippie house in Coconut Grove called
Speaker 1: the Maya Family, and um, all of these things, and uh,
Speaker 1: I was never part of the rich kids, and so
Speaker 1: I didn't fit into their world. Their clothes all came
Speaker 1: from New York. They were driving their parents last year Cadillac.
Speaker 1: I mean it was, you know. And so I went
Speaker 1: to my high school reunion and they said, oh, you know, Desmond,
Speaker 1: you were always a superstar. You know, you were so
Speaker 1: mysterious with you were so handsome and and so cool,
Speaker 1: and you were like you were like an angel walking
Speaker 1: down the halls and all this kind of stuff. And
Speaker 1: inside I just felt so like a nothing, you know, Latino,
Speaker 1: poor gay. You know, I just didn't know what until
Speaker 1: I met Virgil. And then she like gave me a
Speaker 1: feeling like I belonged to something. We started reading cool
Speaker 1: books together and and all of that. And then then
Speaker 1: then when Desmond Child was born, then Desmond Child could
Speaker 1: be anything I wanted it to be. I was no
Speaker 1: longer Johnny Barrett, you know, that was a nothing. I
Speaker 1: was now Desmond Child and I loved the name because
Speaker 1: it reminded me of Elton John. It had that ring
Speaker 1: to it. And so I've been able to become maybe
Speaker 1: the arc type of whatever that is. You know. Okay,
Speaker 1: so when do you start playing music? So we we
Speaker 1: started playing little cafes, No no, no where did you
Speaker 1: learn how to play? Take? And I always played piano
Speaker 1: because my mom was was playing piano. That what was
Speaker 1: always a piano in my else? Okay, do you take
Speaker 1: lessons or just figured out by yourself? Figured out by myself?
Speaker 1: Can read music now? No, even though I graduated from
Speaker 1: n YU the music department, I can. I can know
Speaker 1: you went down y good experience, bad experience. It was
Speaker 1: a wonderful experience because I had like the most amazing teachers.
Speaker 1: There was a voice teacher, John Kune. He lived to
Speaker 1: be two and uh, he believed in me and he
Speaker 1: really helped me to develop my voice. And then there
Speaker 1: was Adina Scoville and she had invented the keyboard numerical
Speaker 1: system where you put your hands on its one, three,
Speaker 1: five and then you can play in any key and
Speaker 1: that's what Nashville adopted. She invented that in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 1: And she had written a book called Keyboard Technique Modena Scoville,
Speaker 1: and she was already super old, and she was teaching
Speaker 1: at n y U. And she you know, when I
Speaker 1: once I figured out how I can put my hands
Speaker 1: down and modulate, it made a huge difference because I
Speaker 1: could almost play anything, even though I mean I can't
Speaker 1: play fast songs and stuff, but I could pluck out chords.
Speaker 1: And I knew to do a seconds and force and
Speaker 1: understand all of this. And then I had a UM,
Speaker 1: a music theory teacher that was Holocaust survivor, and she
Speaker 1: ilsa bunch and she believed in me. So made such
Speaker 1: a difference, you know, And and um to have people that,
Speaker 1: and so I wasn't want to do homework and all that,
Speaker 1: so I always sit in the front row. So I
Speaker 1: just listened really carefully, and then I did well in
Speaker 1: my tests. I was a big believer when I went
Speaker 1: to college, irrelevant of what you did, you gotta go
Speaker 1: to class every day otherwise feel like you're not even there.
Speaker 1: And so I was good at that. And I was
Speaker 1: driving a cab, I was living with Maria in the
Speaker 1: little apartment. I worked at a sporting goods store. I
Speaker 1: did Xerox machine and she was working waitress, and you know,
Speaker 1: those were like magical, wonderful days and hanging around Reno
Speaker 1: Sweeney because that's where we wanted to play. And eventually
Speaker 1: we opened, you know for four you know, bigger stars there,
Speaker 1: and that's that's how we became, you know something. And
Speaker 1: so we got signed out of there, uh two Capitol Records.
Speaker 1: So who signed you? Richard Landis and you know, and
Speaker 1: we were obsessed with Laura Nero. So he put us
Speaker 1: with Charlie Collelo, who was the arranger of Eli and
Speaker 1: the Thirteen Confessions. And then I hired Laura Nero's um
Speaker 1: father to tune my piano so I could just pick
Speaker 1: his brain about Laura and and he was you know,
Speaker 1: we'd be there three hours and need to tell his
Speaker 1: stories and stories and so you know, eventually, you know,
Speaker 1: I got to know her a few years before she
Speaker 1: passed away. Okay, she was living in Danbury then, and
Speaker 1: I went to Danbury and she made me dinner. Okay, wait, wait,
Speaker 1: but how did you make the connection? She played in
Speaker 1: Santa Monica at a little jazz club on Santa Monica
Speaker 1: Boulevard or something like that. In my place somebody's name.
Speaker 1: I think, whatever, keep going. Yeah, And so I sent
Speaker 1: back my my my business card and with a little
Speaker 1: note says I wanted to meet you my whole life.
Speaker 1: And so by the time I got home, there was
Speaker 1: a message on my voicemail. Hi, It's Laura, and it
Speaker 1: was like she gave me her phone number, and then
Speaker 1: she came over for dinner. Wow. Well was that like
Speaker 1: it was like magical. So then it was lucky because
Speaker 1: Maria was already with Rick, and uh, Diana was there
Speaker 1: and I think Miriam was in town. And we had
Speaker 1: this this dinner you know, with Laura and Desmond Child
Speaker 1: and Rouge. And then we went to my piano and
Speaker 1: Laura sat at the piano and we started singing through
Speaker 1: all the songs of Gonna Take a Miracle. Wow, it
Speaker 1: was like a fans wild exactly. I got it. I
Speaker 1: got it. I got it. And then and then she
Speaker 1: invited me, you know, because she invited me to her
Speaker 1: house for dinner. So I went and I imagined, like
Speaker 1: this grant remember when I was living with Maria, had
Speaker 1: this little tiny willeitz Er piano, and I kept singing, God,
Speaker 1: you know, Laura Nero write so many songs much better
Speaker 1: than mine. And she's probably on gorgeous piano overlooking riverside drive,
Speaker 1: you know, all this kind of stuff. So I go
Speaker 1: and rent a car, and I go to dan Berry
Speaker 1: and I go on this thing and you know, she
Speaker 1: lived in a prefab little gray thing that was like
Speaker 1: a little trailer. It was literally a trailer. It was
Speaker 1: like a pre fab It was like as wide as
Speaker 1: you know, you could drive down a road right. And
Speaker 1: then she had a little part that stuck out and
Speaker 1: there was a fouton on the floor and that's where
Speaker 1: she slept, and her son slept like in a little
Speaker 1: loft over the closet. And um, she because she couldn't
Speaker 1: afford to live in the main house that she owned,
Speaker 1: so she had that rented. And she made me and
Speaker 1: I thought, oh this she's Italian and Joe, She's gonna
Speaker 1: make the most delicious good. It was just like regular
Speaker 1: pasta with ragu, tomato, sauce, iceberg lettuce and french is dressed.
Speaker 1: And I brought a bag full of like hogandas which
Speaker 1: was you know, she loved that. So we had all
Speaker 1: the four that I had brought in with spoons and
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, and she had a picture
Speaker 1: window and underneath the picture window was a little will
Speaker 1: itz Er Spinett like the one I was writing exactly,
Speaker 1: you know, with the little thing, and that's where she
Speaker 1: was writing. And it was like, wow, isn't that ironic? Okay,
Speaker 1: it's also ironic that she was straight and then she
Speaker 1: went gay she came out. Yeah, I mean I think
Speaker 1: she was. She wasn't like I think she was whatever,
Speaker 1: bisexual or whatever she was whatever. Just an interesting parallel there.
Speaker 1: Why do you why do you think? Oh? Well, when
Speaker 1: we were listening to her music, Elien the third thing confessions,
Speaker 1: I have an interesting story because the person who played
Speaker 1: me that to begin with was Lisa Wexler, Jerry Wexler's daughter.
Speaker 1: And did you know Jerry, Yes, because he was the dad.
Speaker 1: This is when I was Yeah, but did you know
Speaker 1: who he was? Kind of? And I would? They were
Speaker 1: snowbirds and they had rented a house or maybe he
Speaker 1: had actually bought on Alice in Island, and so I would.
Speaker 1: I would I met her because I was me and
Speaker 1: my cousin, my cousin Iggy. We would go and fish
Speaker 1: coins out of the fountain blue fountains and the Eden
Speaker 1: Rock and the dul and we were putting twenty bucks
Speaker 1: in our pocket every time we went went there. So
Speaker 1: I met Lisa and she was like the snowbird, very masculine,
Speaker 1: and you know I always drawn to this and raging people.
Speaker 1: And so she said, oh, come over to my house
Speaker 1: for dinner, and so I started going over there and
Speaker 1: the dinner uh, you know, because Jerry loved this kind
Speaker 1: of more like being home for dinner. And you know, Sureley, Anita, Paul, Lisa, Me, Jerry,
Speaker 1: Tom Dowd, a Reef Martin m at her again in
Speaker 1: and they would be talking about the Vietnam War, the
Speaker 1: politics and how they were scheming, you know, to take
Speaker 1: over the music business and all these things. And I
Speaker 1: just wanted to stay at the table. And she would
Speaker 1: be like pulling on my shirt, like let's go to
Speaker 1: my room, smoke a joint, you know whatever. And so
Speaker 1: she pulled me over there and then she pulled out this,
Speaker 1: uh this record actually it was Lauren NEOs Um more
Speaker 1: than a New Discovery, the first album she played for me.
Speaker 1: In the minute I heard her voice, it was like
Speaker 1: touched me. It's like, okay, that's what I want to do.
Speaker 1: That that touched me in a way that nothing ever did.
Speaker 1: Her voice was like this wailing sound, and then her
Speaker 1: picture and everything is she was like a Madonna or something.
Speaker 1: You see her perform live, I have, Yeah, I did
Speaker 1: at the University of Miami and then she was also
Speaker 1: at the Gulf Stream. Yeah, I saw her three times.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that after her initial period she
Speaker 1: never had more success? Well, well, first of all, she
Speaker 1: was never trying to write commercially, and it was David Geffen,
Speaker 1: her agent and manager, who was placing the songs in
Speaker 1: these amazing ways Three Dog Night and The Fifth Dimension
Speaker 1: and you know, Barbara Streisan and like so many things,
Speaker 1: and she became like, you know, the eight Girl of songwriting.
Speaker 1: But she was a very shy person. And um, you know,
Speaker 1: I think that David according to what she told me,
Speaker 1: and also Clive Davis. You know, she was at Columbia
Speaker 1: and David created Asylum Records essentially for her. But you know,
Speaker 1: she didn't I want to leave Clive because it was
Speaker 1: like a family to her. So she just wouldn't go.
Speaker 1: And so I think David was very hurt by that.
Speaker 1: And of course what he did was he found Joni
Speaker 1: Mitchell and made her like the biggest female songwriter of
Speaker 1: all time. So and so, then I once had lunch
Speaker 1: with Clive Davis and and I said, well, what's your
Speaker 1: I asked him, you know, interviewing him kind of like,
Speaker 1: what's your biggest regret in your career? He said that
Speaker 1: I didn't become David Geffen's partner and go with him
Speaker 1: when he asked me to go, because I was putting
Speaker 1: out three FT records a year. I couldn't understand his
Speaker 1: business model, like twelve albums a year, and so it
Speaker 1: just he'said, I just didn't get it, you know I
Speaker 1: And so he says, that's my biggest rea rhet and
Speaker 1: I just thought, well, like wow, And then I started
Speaker 1: to think about it, and I thought like maybe David
Speaker 1: was still trying to say, if I could get Clive
Speaker 1: to come, then Laura will come. I got you, So
Speaker 1: you know, I hope you know I'm not speaking out
Speaker 1: of turn, but that was the math that I did. Okay,
Speaker 1: what's your favorite Laura Neuros song, Eli's Coming Emily Okay, um,
Speaker 1: beads of Sweat, Um Christmas and my Soul. I have
Speaker 1: to say that that's that's the one. And when when
Speaker 1: she died Desmond Child and Ruth sang that at the
Speaker 1: Beacon Theater, you know, and in her tribute and um,
Speaker 1: you know that song is just so great. Mine is
Speaker 1: Captain for Dark Mornings. That okay. So so today, Desmond,
Speaker 1: what are you up to today? Well? Um, last year
Speaker 1: I decided I was going to perform again because I
Speaker 1: want to, because I just had to. And so I
Speaker 1: got all my friends together and went back to New
Speaker 1: York and found a club that kind of remind me
Speaker 1: of Reno Sweeney and it's called Finstein's Einstein's, as I say,
Speaker 1: I know, Michael Finstein did a podcast with him, um
Speaker 1: and um it was underneath fifty four below and I
Speaker 1: think it used to be like the orgy room or
Speaker 1: something where the drugs were all taken, you know, with
Speaker 1: Houstin and Liza or whatever. In those days. I was
Speaker 1: never able to get past the red red rope, not
Speaker 1: that I really tried that hard. Um. And so we
Speaker 1: I recorded those three nights and um then compiled it
Speaker 1: together to be this live album desm Child Live that
Speaker 1: I've you know, put out on b MG, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just you know, it feels it feels
Speaker 1: so good. I mean not all the songs that I
Speaker 1: ever we're hits were on it, but I sing a
Speaker 1: lot of the songs that became popular that I collaborated
Speaker 1: with with Aerosmith, bon Jovi and all that, and um,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's kind of it's kind of homespun.
Speaker 1: It's not slick. It's like it's just a live cabaret room.
Speaker 1: But I'm very happy with it. And um, I mean
Speaker 1: I opened the show with Laura Nero song The Man
Speaker 1: Who Sends Me Home, which I dedicated to my husband.
Speaker 1: Of course that didn't make it on the record, but
Speaker 1: at I have it in the cans whatever and so um.
Speaker 1: And then I've been writing my autobiography with David Ritz
Speaker 1: and it's called Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big
Speaker 1: Life with David Ritz, and it's it's still I think Thursday,
Speaker 1: we're gonna make one last sweep through it and get
Speaker 1: it up up to date. And you know, I haven't
Speaker 1: been able to find a publishing deal yet, and I
Speaker 1: was thinking just printing it myself and publishing it just
Speaker 1: like Amazon or something. That's a whole separate conversation. I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Um. I had some you
Speaker 1: should talk to If you want to do it yourself,
Speaker 1: Jason Flam did a children's book which he heavily promoted itself.
Speaker 1: If you want to go that route, get ahold of Jason. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Lulul Dog because we have a bulldog looks almost like
Speaker 1: Lulu's sister. Uh so, um, so I've been working on that. Um.
Speaker 1: I've been working on a Broadway musical called Cuba Libre,
Speaker 1: and it's the true story of my mother's two very
Speaker 1: beautiful younger sisters, Baba who I spoke about, who is
Speaker 1: Bautista's mistress, and the youngest one, who was the revolutionary
Speaker 1: in the family and she became Castro's lover after the revolution.
Speaker 1: So we have two sisters to dig taters one island.
Speaker 1: And so I've been working on it with David Sigerson
Speaker 1: for since we started looking back, since two thousand four.
Speaker 1: Are we coming to Uh yes, I mean We've worked
Speaker 1: for many years, um developing it with you know, producers,
Speaker 1: Broadway producers, but then they got busy with other shows
Speaker 1: and this and that, and finally I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we have a new resurgence that's coming and hopefully we'll
Speaker 1: be able to start putting it up on the on
Speaker 1: its feet. But you know, I put everything I've got
Speaker 1: into that. And also have another collaborator, Andreas Carlson, who
Speaker 1: co wrote a lot of the songs for the Backstreet
Speaker 1: Boys in and Sink back in the day. And I
Speaker 1: met him and when he came to see me, because
Speaker 1: he was on a kind of pilgrimage to meet everybody
Speaker 1: or anybody that he ever saw their name on a
Speaker 1: kiss cover. So I was it. So we sat and
Speaker 1: we we just bonded, and he started telling me about
Speaker 1: oh Town, and he started telling me about lou Perlman
Speaker 1: and what he was doing there with all these boy briends.
Speaker 1: I said, wait a second, this is like the idol maker,
Speaker 1: this is like this is amazing. This could make an
Speaker 1: amazing movie. Right, So then we always talked about, you know,
Speaker 1: how we would do it. So then when Luke Perlman
Speaker 1: got caught perpetrating one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in
Speaker 1: history and then he goes to jail, like, the story
Speaker 1: just got better and better, and so Andreas like maybe
Speaker 1: and I like eight years ago we bought the rights
Speaker 1: to a book on the subject called The Hit Sharade
Speaker 1: by Tyler Gray and then we bought the right. We option.
Speaker 1: I would say I didn't winn't buy the rights. We
Speaker 1: option the rights uh to an article in Vantage. Then
Speaker 1: ay Fair called Matt about the boys. And so we
Speaker 1: finally have amazing partners. Ed pressman, pressman film, um Greg
Speaker 1: Basser who was with Village Road Show uh and now
Speaker 1: he has his own company, Gentle Giant. He's Australian David Anton,
Speaker 1: he's a you know, high end brand marketeer. Andreas and
Speaker 1: myself and um Heather Winters who's one of my close
Speaker 1: friends since she was the producer of the executive producer
Speaker 1: of Supersized Me. And so we are now moving forward
Speaker 1: to try to you know, get the director. The money's
Speaker 1: called coming, it's all doing. It's a scripted film on
Speaker 1: the subject. And I think what happened was that I
Speaker 1: would come to l A and you know, I write
Speaker 1: with different people and then you know, before you know it,
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there's like six people on the song.
Speaker 1: And then maybe you could get Selena go Mess to
Speaker 1: maybe cut a song. But if it's not a single,
Speaker 1: then it's like all that effort, the trip, everything, it's
Speaker 1: just or it doesn't get cut at all. And I said,
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to be a buyer, not
Speaker 1: a seller. I want to decide what songs go into
Speaker 1: some big projects, and I want to put on you know, music,
Speaker 1: and I want to write things. So that's what had
Speaker 1: gotten into my head. Doing a musical, doing a movie, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and I have other ideas you know that
Speaker 1: I'm pursuing. And it's fun. It's really creative too because
Speaker 1: I always wrote for archetypes, so I'm writing for characters
Speaker 1: and um so this uh but the it's called trans
Speaker 1: Con Theoretical Airline. The movie is called trans Con The
Speaker 1: Making of lou Perlman and the Boy Band Revolution. Now.
Speaker 1: Uh so if someone calls you to write, co write today,
Speaker 1: you will say, um, well, like who like an artist
Speaker 1: or like other pals you know that are an artist?
Speaker 1: An artist? Well, you know, there's some really great artists
Speaker 1: that are young and and I listen to them and
Speaker 1: if I feel that spark, I will write with them.
Speaker 1: So in Nashville there's some new artists that I'm you know,
Speaker 1: kind of working with and developing. But I'm also meeting with,
Speaker 1: you know, an artist that's already making records and touring. Um,
Speaker 1: and so I'm like I will meet, I will write,
Speaker 1: I will you know. I'm just I just don't put
Speaker 1: myself on a pedestal. The only problem is when the
Speaker 1: person doesn't have writing skills that it's like playing like
Speaker 1: Serena Williams playing with Grandma. It's like, that's not that's
Speaker 1: not fun for me. And I don't think the best
Speaker 1: thing comes out because then I impose everything on that
Speaker 1: other person. They may not be able to pull it off.
Speaker 1: And how often are you doing that? That's my day
Speaker 1: job and I'm I'm like, I'll be going to New
Speaker 1: York to work on my Broadway show or come out
Speaker 1: here and doing I'm you know, yesterday I was running
Speaker 1: with for the last two days with Rock Mafia, and
Speaker 1: you know, we had a hit together with Z called
Speaker 1: Beautiful Now, so you know we we're doing good. And
Speaker 1: they welcome me so beautifully. That's that's because I'm not
Speaker 1: there in their face all the time. I come every
Speaker 1: few months. They're always happy to see me. And then Nashville,
Speaker 1: I have my own studio and all that and people
Speaker 1: are coming and um so why Nashville, there's a game? Man?
Speaker 1: Well after we had you know, after after nine eleven,
Speaker 1: see I go from tragedy tragedy earthquake. Nine eleven, I
Speaker 1: had like twelve people working for me. It was the
Speaker 1: Ricky Martin machine, and so Ricky lives six blocks away,
Speaker 1: so we had four studios going and and engineers assistant engineers.
Speaker 1: We were right on the water. Our cook was cooking
Speaker 1: for ten twelve people every day, you know, lunch and dinner.
Speaker 1: It was like a machine. And then after nine eleven,
Speaker 1: the record companies. On the one hand, I didn't want
Speaker 1: to pay too because remember the file sharing and all that.
Speaker 1: They stopped letting people come and rent apartments or stay
Speaker 1: in hotels to work with me. And also people were
Speaker 1: afraid to fly, so now I spent. Then my my
Speaker 1: children were born two thousand two, and so we had
Speaker 1: a problem because the state of Florida wouldn't allow my
Speaker 1: husband to be a legal co parent, So that was
Speaker 1: that wasn't good. And so I had four houses, I
Speaker 1: had my mom, and and it was like I wasn't
Speaker 1: working and the things I was getting were real like
Speaker 1: kind of sea level artists. Just to keep the lights
Speaker 1: on and takeing on. I said, I'm wasting myself. It's
Speaker 1: this isn't And at the same time, American Idol started happening,
Speaker 1: so I started spending so much time in l A.
Speaker 1: And and Clive was nice enough to put me into
Speaker 1: with Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood and
Speaker 1: and Fantasia and all this kind of stuff. So I
Speaker 1: was working for Clive, but my family was in Miami,
Speaker 1: so you know, I kind of said, Okay, that's it,
Speaker 1: let's just go back to l A. And you know,
Speaker 1: Max Martin had moved to l A. Everybody was moving
Speaker 1: to l A. And it seemed like, well, maybe I
Speaker 1: can jump in like that. So we bought a house
Speaker 1: and in Montenito, next to sam um Um Will Smith.
Speaker 1: His like property was like stones throw away from ours.
Speaker 1: It was four and a half acres this house, and
Speaker 1: it had a waterfall, koy ponds, and it had all
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But you know was after our
Speaker 1: friends all had fun at our big fifty foot pool,
Speaker 1: then they stopped coming to hang out with us. So
Speaker 1: we started to feel very isolated. So we moved to
Speaker 1: Santa Monica and we had a glorious time because the
Speaker 1: kids went to like a preschool called Little Dolphins by
Speaker 1: the Sea, and we met so many lifetime friends there,
Speaker 1: it seemed like okay. And then finally the market that
Speaker 1: we had bought a house in Center Market, but the
Speaker 1: market had really peaked, and we said, because we had
Speaker 1: always had our little cabin in in in Nashville, I said,
Speaker 1: let's just sell. Let's go to Nashville and Curtis. We
Speaker 1: also got scared because a lot of our friends that
Speaker 1: had teenage kids, you know, going too high private high schools,
Speaker 1: they were all already in rehab once or twice, and
Speaker 1: we said, do we really want to raise our sons
Speaker 1: here with these dangers. So Curtis, who's from Missouri, you know,
Speaker 1: and his we can drive to his his mom's house
Speaker 1: and all that said, know, let's go to Nashville. And
Speaker 1: we've had a beautiful life there. We really have. Okay,
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Two songs you're most proud of
Speaker 1: Weird with Hansen, because that's the song that I feel
Speaker 1: reflects them where you know, I feel you know, it's
Speaker 1: like when you're you're feeling different and then kind of
Speaker 1: getting to the place where you know what, even the
Speaker 1: prom queen feels different. You know, she everyone looks at her,
Speaker 1: she thinks, you know, everybody thinks she's so perfect and
Speaker 1: she's the most insecure and so it's one of the
Speaker 1: most beautiful songs, you know, continue and um, it's it's
Speaker 1: inspired by Burt Backrack and the lyrics of haw David.
Speaker 1: So I'm you know, I feel that song. And um
Speaker 1: there's a song that I wrote with John bon Jovi
Speaker 1: called you Want to Make a Memory and I sing
Speaker 1: it in my show and I love that song because
Speaker 1: you know, uh, my life is so much I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm still friends with my high school friends. It's about
Speaker 1: you know, we have so many memories and um, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that's kind of a maybe the age
Speaker 1: that I'm in looking back on my life, retrospect in
Speaker 1: my book, all this kind of stuff. But the idea
Speaker 1: of making new memories, you have to make an effort. So,
Speaker 1: you know, we get our friends and we all found
Speaker 1: this little island in Greece and we meet there every summer.
Speaker 1: We're going now for our twelve How many people go, Oh,
Speaker 1: they come in and out, you know, but we stay
Speaker 1: there for a month and then we stay at the
Speaker 1: most fantastic It's Mama Mia, right, and you're on a
Speaker 1: cliff and everything, and uh, you just forget about the world.
Speaker 1: You start leaving your phone in your room, you start
Speaker 1: not there's no TV. Uh, you stop looking at your computer,
Speaker 1: and you start making a life for yourself and you
Speaker 1: start peeling away all of this stuff. You know. By
Speaker 1: the end, it's like, oh, there's just two more days. Really,
Speaker 1: can we change our flights? Can we stay longer? Because
Speaker 1: you know, you you start getting in touch. And then
Speaker 1: our kids, who tough guys. I don't know how they
Speaker 1: turned into such jocks. You know. My son's Roman and
Speaker 1: Nero named after Lawer Nero and y r Oh. I
Speaker 1: never saw jockey or jocks. I mean they will they
Speaker 1: vowed never to see another Broadway show. Yeah, they will
Speaker 1: not go. They will you know, hell no, we won't go.
Speaker 1: So we we started them seeing like you know, Billy
Speaker 1: Elliott in London when they were four years old. You know,
Speaker 1: it was like um and so they like, you know,
Speaker 1: they when we're in Greece, they turn like little kids,
Speaker 1: you know, because they see the other European children hugging
Speaker 1: their parents and stuff, and like when we're natural, it's
Speaker 1: like and then when we're there, it was like they
Speaker 1: just run like like in packs. They become like little
Speaker 1: kids and I just love that about being there, Okay,
Speaker 1: And what do you think about today's music? I love it.
Speaker 1: I mean I love um the inventiveness. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's like necessity, you know, because the budgets are you know,
Speaker 1: they give you Okay, here's five thousand dollars and now
Speaker 1: deliver your whole record. So what is it? Invention is
Speaker 1: the daughter of necessity. I think people are making the
Speaker 1: most out of samples and things and and actually bringing
Speaker 1: into a high art form and I applaud it and
Speaker 1: I think it's really good and it's more egalitarian, like
Speaker 1: you can make a song today tonight and put it
Speaker 1: out tonight before you'd wait two years for your single
Speaker 1: to finally appear, and by that point it's out of style.
Speaker 1: And so uh, I just think that this. I'm not
Speaker 1: afraid of technology. I just love it and I'm working
Speaker 1: in it. And what about melody? Melody? That's the thing.
Speaker 1: It's like with these cut and paste things, I think
Speaker 1: people get too lazy. And also they don't dig deep
Speaker 1: enough into into the lyrics as much as they could.
Speaker 1: I mean, I love urban music because lyrics are so
Speaker 1: important to it and the inner rhyming and a literation
Speaker 1: but I'm just talking about you know, pop music that
Speaker 1: has you know, urban riffs and stuff like that. It
Speaker 1: just doesn't sometimes feel like it's deep. Like I love
Speaker 1: Halsey that song, you know without me. I just love
Speaker 1: the sound of that and Billie Eilish and like all
Speaker 1: of that, and the way that they're those productions are
Speaker 1: there so sparse and they make the most out of nothing.
Speaker 1: They're like Japanese haikus or something. I see it like
Speaker 1: that because and I'm like back in the day, the
Speaker 1: King of Walls of Sound. I love, you know, I
Speaker 1: listened to Love Deluxe like over and over again. I
Speaker 1: never get sick of it. It sounds like it was
Speaker 1: done yesterday like today, and when somebody's doing true art,
Speaker 1: it's timeless, and you know, I'm always striving for that.
Speaker 1: And so I love I love the music of today,
Speaker 1: and it was someone who's creative. What inspires you, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I I think that when somebody some some
Speaker 1: people have natural talent, you know, they're just anything they touched,
Speaker 1: they like, they'll turn that box and all of sudden
Speaker 1: they turn it on its side, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden they put something on top, and it's art. They
Speaker 1: have the eye or they have the ear. Those people
Speaker 1: are so rare, you know, because we also live in
Speaker 1: the world where everybody wants to be famous. It's like
Speaker 1: you can be famous for nothing and you're just cute
Speaker 1: and funny or something, and you can have billions of followers.
Speaker 1: So I think that when somebody walks into my office
Speaker 1: and they have it, it's like I come alive, like
Speaker 1: I get it and I feel it. And so there's
Speaker 1: always somebody being born who has it, and so, but
Speaker 1: it's not that many because it's a rare thing. Before,
Speaker 1: when Clyde was putting out three fifty albums, you know,
Speaker 1: in the seventies in every genre, you know, that was
Speaker 1: the Harvard of Music, you know, and you know, it
Speaker 1: was like wow, and you'd listen to those records over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. Now it's like it sounds
Speaker 1: it seems like people are putting out three songs a second.
Speaker 1: I think they are. I mean, it's almost impossible to
Speaker 1: to wrap your head around it. And and of all that,
Speaker 1: what really is essential? Really, I guess people find it
Speaker 1: and then it touches them, you know. And so if
Speaker 1: it's moving people and inspiring people, or even if it's
Speaker 1: not inspiring people's making people mad. I think that's it's
Speaker 1: bringing out emotion. I think that that's worthwhile. But you know,
Speaker 1: the who knows where the world's going, right, it's it's
Speaker 1: going so fast I can't keep track of it. I
Speaker 1: just want to be as I heard Dolly Parton once
Speaker 1: say on TV. She said, well I want to be
Speaker 1: an active participant in the entertainment industry. And there we
Speaker 1: have it. Desmond, thanks so much for doing this. Has
Speaker 1: been wonderful. Thank you. I feel like I've been in
Speaker 1: therapy the whole time. Well, hopefully it will benefit you
Speaker 1: as much of my audience. Until next time, This is
Speaker 1: Bob Left says