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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is musician, performer songwriter Desmond Child. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I gotta ask you why, Desmond Child. Okay, I was

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Speaker 1: going to Miami Beach High along with some other notables

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Speaker 1: like Mickey Rourke and Andy Garcia. Were they there when

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Speaker 1: you were there? Yeah? Yeah, because Mickey was one year

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Speaker 1: ahead and um Andy was two years behind. Did you

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Speaker 1: know them? Mickey was my protector from the bullies, really yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that started in junior high at Nautilus. And do

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Speaker 1: you still have contact with him? It's it's like one

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Speaker 1: of those soul things. When you see him, you can act.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, but every ten years we run into each

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Speaker 1: other in the strangest places and we talked for three

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Speaker 1: and then I don't see him for another ten years. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so keep going. So you're going to I'm going to

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Speaker 1: Miami Beach High. And you know, I Beach High was

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Speaker 1: like nine o two one oh because all the parents

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Speaker 1: were either Italian or Jewish and they all built ran

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Speaker 1: or whatever all the hotels on Miami Beach. So all

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Speaker 1: the parents they put so much money into that school.

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Speaker 1: So it was like a private school and how many

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Speaker 1: kids went to the school, do you remember? No? But

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Speaker 1: I was like busting myself in from the projects. You

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Speaker 1: remember that movie Moonlight. Yeah, sure, those projects. That's where

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Speaker 1: we live for twelve years. And I just was going

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Speaker 1: to Edison Junior High School and it was like no

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Speaker 1: learning being done. It was all like, you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: just the way, because did you work the angles so

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Speaker 1: you could get into that school like you're living with

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Speaker 1: your mother or with my aunt? Yeah, and so I

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Speaker 1: it was three busses to get there, and uh, it

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Speaker 1: was extraordinary, and so on the law, you know, during

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Speaker 1: lunch there was a lawn and the kids were out

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Speaker 1: there smoking whatever, wandering off to restaurants where you'd see

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Speaker 1: the principal in way you weren't even supposed to be

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Speaker 1: off school grounds. And um, there was a a girl

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Speaker 1: and she sort of looked like Yoko. She had this

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Speaker 1: long black hair and granny glasses, all dressed in black,

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Speaker 1: and she was playing acoustic guitar and she was playing

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Speaker 1: her own song. And you know, because my mom was

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Speaker 1: a songwriter, and I guess maybe there was a kind

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Speaker 1: of connection. And her name was originally Deborah Walstein, and

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Speaker 1: then everyone called her Debbie Wall, and we just immediately

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Speaker 1: bonded and we decided to become a duo. So we

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Speaker 1: loved the name night Child, you know, so she did

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Speaker 1: Why did you like the name night Child? Where did

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Speaker 1: that come from? It just it was dark and it

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Speaker 1: was her mon hess and it just you know, the

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Speaker 1: magic theater and all this kind of stuff. And so

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Speaker 1: I started wearing all black as well, and I guess

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Speaker 1: we like invented goth okay, And so we had night Child.

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Speaker 1: And so in order to be night Child, she became

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Speaker 1: Virgil Night and I j and I became Desmond Child

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Speaker 1: and Desmond from oh blahdo bladah wow, because I was

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Speaker 1: trying to think of there aren't that many Desmond's. I

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Speaker 1: was wondering what the inspiration was my whole career. When

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Speaker 1: people met me, they couldn't understand that I was white.

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Speaker 1: They thought I was Jamaican. You know. It was like Desmond.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, what Desmond Decker. Okay, if we

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Speaker 1: look at your passport, does it say Desmond Child? Now? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: what does so you change your name legally? Yes? So

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Speaker 1: what's the middle name? I couldn't think of one, So

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Speaker 1: it's just a child, Okay. I first became aware of

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Speaker 1: you with reviews of Desmond Child and Rouge, and I

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Speaker 1: bought that album. Then you kind of faded from the

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Speaker 1: landscape in terms of what my visibility was. Suddenly your songwriter.

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Speaker 1: How does that happen? Well, when I was in Desmon

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Speaker 1: Child and Rouge, we played all the clubs in New

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Speaker 1: York City and we would plaster the streets with our posters.

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Speaker 1: I got arrested once for doing so, and we would

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Speaker 1: stencil the sidewalks around Black Rock with our names, you know,

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Speaker 1: black Rock CBS. Yeah, Desmon Child and Rouge at Tracks

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Speaker 1: because that was one of the favorite clubs. And so

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Speaker 1: we're playing at Tracks and Paul Stanley from Kiss came

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Speaker 1: to see us because he was intrigued, and, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we made friends. He came backstage and he said, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, let's try writing a song. And it was like,

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Speaker 1: I actually actually didn't know that much about Kiss. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was just for little kids and stuff, and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, so we ended up getting together. We wrote

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Speaker 1: a song called I Was Made for Loving You. Well,

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Speaker 1: certainly that's a big breakthrough here from it. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of a disco hit. Oh okay, But did they intentionally

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Speaker 1: want to change their sound to that sound. No, no,

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Speaker 1: I that's what Desmond Child and Rouge was doing. And

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Speaker 1: I had got gotten one of the first drum machines,

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Speaker 1: so I was writing two beats, this is you know

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Speaker 1: eight machine something like that. You know, it had a

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Speaker 1: cheesy little sound, you know, but now of course the

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Speaker 1: hip hop world is using those sounds. You know, you

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Speaker 1: hear them. Crazy thing is at the rolling was like

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Speaker 1: the definitive thing we thought that passed in the facts

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Speaker 1: on every record. Now just blows my mind, you know.

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Speaker 1: So um, well that's a little bit slower, a little

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Speaker 1: bit slower. So all Stanley just sees your flyer and

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Speaker 1: comes comes. There's no connection, No one's reaching out to him.

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Speaker 1: And was the flyer what was intriguing about the floor

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Speaker 1: because he thought I looked kind of well, I had

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Speaker 1: this kind of one of the first mullets, and uh,

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Speaker 1: these gorgeous girls with you know, looking very hot around

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Speaker 1: So it was kind of like that. People didn't know

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Speaker 1: what to make of us. Actually, looking back on it,

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Speaker 1: we was more like the Scissor Sisters. We're kind of

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Speaker 1: hip and playing Reno Sweeney and rubbing shoulders with Andy

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Speaker 1: Warhol and Hollywood Lawn, and you know that was an

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Speaker 1: incredible time. We opened for Patti Smith at the Lower

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Speaker 1: Manhattan Notion Club, So we were inventing. Okay, so you

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Speaker 1: were part of the seed that he was checking out

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Speaker 1: the sea. Yeah, so we were mixing rock guitars with

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Speaker 1: dance beats. We didn't think of it as disco. I

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Speaker 1: mean when I bought the record, because the record refuted

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Speaker 1: the rock press about the record. The record very surprising.

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Speaker 1: So it was a little bit all over the place.

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Speaker 1: And within six months we released a second album called

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Speaker 1: Runners in the Night, and that was way more rock.

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Speaker 1: And it was also the moment because I started desmon

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Speaker 1: Chan the Rouge with Maria Vidal and we were the

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Speaker 1: founders and then we added our best friends Diana Grisselli

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Speaker 1: and Merriam Valley, and then um it was I was

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Speaker 1: Marie and I had been together now like three or

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Speaker 1: four years, and I realized I was way more gay

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Speaker 1: than I was by and then right between the two albums,

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Speaker 1: I met somebody that turned my life upside down, and um,

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Speaker 1: I just realized I couldn't I couldn't stay. And so

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Speaker 1: that's what Runners in the Night is all about. And

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Speaker 1: the first song, you couldn't stay what with her? And

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Speaker 1: also that broke up the band. So that's why, you know,

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Speaker 1: we had so much potential. Where does she today? Oh,

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Speaker 1: she's amazing artists on her own, but we actually anyway,

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Speaker 1: she's she's married to Rick Knowles and who's going to

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Speaker 1: be that's hysterical and she has her own studio and

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Speaker 1: she h to ask him the story. He's being inducted

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Speaker 1: into the Songwriter's Hall of Fame this year. Okay, but

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Speaker 1: let's go back to Paul Stanley. He meets you backstage

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Speaker 1: and the first night he beat back. I want to

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Speaker 1: write a song with you pretty much. He said, hey,

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Speaker 1: you guys, you know you're pretty good. We should try

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Speaker 1: writting a song together. I I think that maybe his

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Speaker 1: intention was maybe hooking up with, you know, one of

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Speaker 1: the girls, right, so you know, it's like we're letting

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Speaker 1: the fox into the henhouse, you know. And but I

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Speaker 1: think he I want his respect, and so we we

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Speaker 1: we wrote I Was Made for Loving. Okay, wait, wait, first,

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Speaker 1: what he said we're gonna write this? Did he include

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Speaker 1: the whole band Orges? No? Just me? Because I was

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Speaker 1: solely writing, I realized, But I wondered since he wanted

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Speaker 1: to pull one of the girls kind of like, you know, okay,

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Speaker 1: hang with you, hang with Okay, So where did you write?

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Speaker 1: I was made? I went to U. S. I. R.

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Speaker 1: And Kiss was rehearsing for the instrument. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: was the big a room with the stage and all that,

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Speaker 1: and off to the side there was a grand piano

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Speaker 1: with a cover on it and everything, and they all

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Speaker 1: took a lunch break and during that break we sat

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Speaker 1: together at that big piano and I started playing the

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Speaker 1: chords which you made up on the spotter you had previously. No,

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Speaker 1: I made it up on the spot you know, and

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Speaker 1: this kind of like um emo kind of tonight, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna give it all to you, you know. It was.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of like um bravado. And so when

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Speaker 1: they went into the studio then with Vinny Poncia a

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Speaker 1: little bit slower, so you're there, they're on lunch breaks.

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Speaker 1: The song finished during lunch. No, it wasn't completely finished,

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Speaker 1: but you know, Paul went and ran with it with

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Speaker 1: Nny Pontia, the producer. Okay, at this point you're out

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Speaker 1: of the loop. I'm out. But so it was really

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Speaker 1: your input was all on that one. Day during rehearsal. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and also this idea of like four on the floor,

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Speaker 1: you know, you know, it was kind of like exciting.

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Speaker 1: And then also at that time, big big raves were

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Speaker 1: starting to happen, and it was like the idea of

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Speaker 1: bringing rock to a dance. It was just eighty two,

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Speaker 1: what no, this is seventy eight, sev seventy eight. We

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Speaker 1: wrote I think in seven on the seven and then

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Speaker 1: I think it was released in seventy something like that.

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Speaker 1: And so you know, the thing was is that I

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Speaker 1: was I've always been intrigued and and you know with

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Speaker 1: the idea of merging styles, you know, like trying to

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Speaker 1: grab a little piece of this Pastiche and Desmond Charlon

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Speaker 1: Rouge was that we were you know, we had R

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Speaker 1: and B elements, we had Latin elements, we had congas,

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Speaker 1: we had heavy power chords. We told stories like Laura

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Speaker 1: Nero and Joni Mitchell and Nelton John. So it was

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Speaker 1: like it wasn't like all sex and romance. There was

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Speaker 1: always a character and there was always this and that,

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Speaker 1: and all of that kind of came together really, uh

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Speaker 1: with when I worked with bon Jovi. Okay, well, well

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Speaker 1: a little bit flower Okay, so you're right. I was

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Speaker 1: made with loving for loving you, uh, with Paul stan Right.

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Speaker 1: How long after you sit there in s I R

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Speaker 1: do you become aware they're cutting it? Oh? They cut

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Speaker 1: it and put it out? What like? Were you part

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Speaker 1: of the loop or did you just hear it when

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Speaker 1: it came out? Yeah? I heard it when it came out. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So in between writing it h and then hearing when

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Speaker 1: it come out, it was months, it was Did you

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Speaker 1: have any contact with the band that really? No? I

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Speaker 1: thought all was good, and then all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you know, I started hearing that my song got cut.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think from Rick Albertie or Bill a

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Speaker 1: Coin or or somebody to my manager. At that time

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Speaker 1: it was Roy Rickson and Matthew Mark and they had

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Speaker 1: Star Flight Management. Okay, so you hear the song is

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Speaker 1: gonna be cut. When do you finally hear the wreck?

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Speaker 1: I think that they sent me a copy of it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: did you hear it? Did it sound like what you

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Speaker 1: thought the song was? That you but but better? Like

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Speaker 1: it was grand? It was bigger than I could have

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Speaker 1: ever Did you immediately hear it? I'm sure you're excited.

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Speaker 1: Did you say this is a hit. It was already

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Speaker 1: a hit. It when they finally sent me the copy,

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Speaker 1: it was a hit already all over the world. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: when did you first hear it? That's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 1: When they when somebody you don't even know? It was

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Speaker 1: nothing nothing. I was like, you know, kind of in

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Speaker 1: the dark, and they were too busy to think about me. Wow.

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Speaker 1: So uh and you still own all your songs? Well

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Speaker 1: not no, not not not like own own. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: was a catalog sale that I did in and um

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Speaker 1: that was with PolyGram uh Publishing, and David Simone was

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Speaker 1: the head of that and my manager at Winston Simone

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Speaker 1: you know are not brothers, which is on and they're

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Speaker 1: called the Simoni brothers whatever. Uh. So we did, we

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Speaker 1: did that deal. And at that time, this was after

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Speaker 1: the earthquake, we were living my husband and I were

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Speaker 1: living in Santa Monica, and it really shook, it really shook.

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Speaker 1: And I just said, and I had another friend who said, listen,

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Speaker 1: Miami Beach is where it's happening. You can get a

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Speaker 1: house on the water for almost nothing, just like you know,

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Speaker 1: and we I just said, let's let's do it. So

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Speaker 1: we sold and we moved to UM to Miami Beach,

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Speaker 1: and I was able to make my mother's dream come true.

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Speaker 1: I bought her her own little mini mansion on Miami Beach.

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Speaker 1: That's all she ever wanted. And pretty soon I owned

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Speaker 1: four houses on the on the block. Okay, but connect

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Speaker 1: me with PolyGram and selling. So then it was getting

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Speaker 1: really hard to find work. And at that point, all

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Speaker 1: of the bands that I had been working with UM

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Speaker 1: had started making compilation albums like best of and you know,

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Speaker 1: they're already like three per act that we're already being reshuffled.

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Speaker 1: And Winston said, you know, maybe this is the time

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Speaker 1: to sell. So, you know, it was I was really

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Speaker 1: kind of going broke, and UM, I just said okay.

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Speaker 1: And my father, who was Hungarian and lived through the

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Speaker 1: Depression and in World War two and all that, he

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Speaker 1: was like, grab the money, grab the money, grab the money,

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Speaker 1: you know. So so I did, and you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that's why we've I've been able to keep a

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Speaker 1: pretty high standard of living and also sacrifice a lot

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Speaker 1: experimenting with things that maybe I wouldn't have if I

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Speaker 1: was like hoping to get the next hit. Okay, just

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Speaker 1: a couple of questions you sold a you sold what

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Speaker 1: did you actually sold the writers and publishers share of

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Speaker 1: that catalog and retained the performance income from ask Catalcy

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Speaker 1: for myself. So my catalog at Aska and so then

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Speaker 1: I started a new catalog before you do that? Okay,

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Speaker 1: what did you do with the money? Well, had people

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Speaker 1: to pay off, right, But a lot of time people

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Speaker 1: get that check and they blow it completely and they're

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Speaker 1: broke again. No, I've you know, I had to pay

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Speaker 1: you know, Tim Collins had always told me that he

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Speaker 1: man Smarrowsmith. He always insisted that everybody pay off their houses,

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Speaker 1: no matter what, even if they had to, you know,

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Speaker 1: eat nothing. And so that's what I did. I paid

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Speaker 1: off all my debts and created a studio, built a

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Speaker 1: studio called the Gentleman's Club and started making records there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you sold, you paid off. How much time did

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Speaker 1: you buy with the money you saved? Well? What day

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Speaker 1: is it today? Today is Wednesday? Okay, so that money

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Speaker 1: still you still have the rabbits. Very good, I applaud

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Speaker 1: because we're in an era where mercuriois is buying everybody's

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Speaker 1: catalog and he's paying an incredible wount. But I just

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Speaker 1: worry about the acts who sell who might end up broke.

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Speaker 1: Obviously not you. But let's go back because of my father,

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Speaker 1: because you know that Eastern European like don't spend a penny. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so most people not that savvy, certainly not musicians. You

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Speaker 1: have that hit in seventy eight, Okay, from the outside,

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Speaker 1: it looks like you don't have another monster hit until

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Speaker 1: you work with bon Jovi. No, I mean I had

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Speaker 1: another hit with Kiss called Heavens on Fire with when

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Speaker 1: they took their makeup off right, And so it was

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Speaker 1: that song that bon Jovi was opening for Kiss in Europe,

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Speaker 1: and they loved that song. In fact, they had written

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Speaker 1: us called In and Out of Love that was very

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Speaker 1: similar sounding In and Out of Love, I feel my

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Speaker 1: heat taking It was in the in the and and

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Speaker 1: it was in the style of it. And um so

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Speaker 1: Paul had said, hey, you know, because he's very kind

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Speaker 1: of paternal and very generous with everyone, he's like wonderful,

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Speaker 1: and he said, John, maybe you should try riding with Desmond.

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Speaker 1: So I got a call from John bon Jovi and

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Speaker 1: I went out to this little wooden house the in

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Speaker 1: the end of a cul de sac at the edge

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Speaker 1: of like this gray brown marsh. In the very distance

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Speaker 1: there was an oil refinery. I mean, this is like

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Speaker 1: where they buried people in the Sopranos. And this is

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, New Jersey. Yeah. And so I walk in

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Speaker 1: and I'd make a left, and then on the left

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Speaker 1: I could see Richie's bedroom. Yeah, he still lived home

300
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Speaker 1: with his parents. And there was the far faucet poster

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Speaker 1: in the in the red right right, the bathing suit

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Speaker 1: kiss poster led Zeppelin. I mean, I just had a

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Speaker 1: quick look, and I walked into the kitchen and there's

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Speaker 1: this you know, vision of look like from the Court

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Speaker 1: of Louis, the FOURT with this big you know mullet

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Speaker 1: and um and John was on one of the you

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Speaker 1: know kitchen wall phones, Avocado green on its phone, undoubtedly

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Speaker 1: with Doc McGee, and he kind of like nut looked

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Speaker 1: at me sideways and kind of like nodded. And then

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Speaker 1: Richie said, well, come this way, and I had to

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Speaker 1: go downstairs into the basement, which was the laundry room. Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is his parents house, Richie's parents, Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: and uh so I went down to the laundry room

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Speaker 1: and it's kind of damn and it was you know, musty,

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Speaker 1: and there was like the washing machine, and then there

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Speaker 1: was like like I discarded for Mike, a table where

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00:18:53,760 --> 00:18:55,720
Speaker 1: they had put a little keyboard, and then there was

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Speaker 1: two little buzzing amps and some chairs and that was

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Speaker 1: their writing room. So I went down there. I was

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Speaker 1: waiting for a which to be sure, because you had

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Speaker 1: a relationship with Kiss. They were opening for Kiss. Had

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Speaker 1: you ever met them previously? This is the first time,

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Speaker 1: And so I had thought of a title because you know,

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Speaker 1: during that time I was working with Bob Crewe. Well,

325
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Speaker 1: when do you talk my audience a little bit of

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Speaker 1: his history legendary. Well, Bob Crew was the producer and

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Speaker 1: co writer of all the four Seasons hits with Bob

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Speaker 1: Gaudio and he's a character in the stage musical and

329
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Speaker 1: movie Jersey Boys. And so he had moved to California,

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Speaker 1: from California to back to New York. And he was fabulous.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he was so stylish and he's so handsome.

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Speaker 1: He looked like a Viking model with this red hair

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Speaker 1: and you know, tall, amazing, big laugh, and uh, somebody

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Speaker 1: said you should work with Desmond. So he we decided

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Speaker 1: he would be my producer. So I spent two years

336
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:06,200
Speaker 1: writing with him. Um for me for my project, and um,

337
00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:11,480
Speaker 1: it was a very it was I went to songwriting college,

338
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Speaker 1: That's what I did. And it was very structured. It

339
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 1: was brill building style because that's where he came from.

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Speaker 1: And so he had an apartment that was just a studio,

341
00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 1: didn't have a bedroom, had a little kitchen and just

342
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Speaker 1: one room and this studio days. Yeah, but that was

343
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Speaker 1: just for his songwriting. He had a beautiful apartment on

344
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Speaker 1: the East side. You know, there was nothing on the walls.

345
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Speaker 1: He couldn't. He was anal about that, you know, uh

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Speaker 1: like white berber carpet, cream colored walls, black piano that

347
00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:44,920
Speaker 1: all his hits were written on. There was a black

348
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Speaker 1: hard bench that went with it, and an armchair, a

349
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 1: stool that had you know arms that swiveled, very comfortable

350
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Speaker 1: for him. And then there was a pile of of

351
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Speaker 1: um yellow pads. And then he would spend time sharpening

352
00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,440
Speaker 1: pencils and so you'd get the pencil and a pad

353
00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 1: and you know, blank pad and he would not allow

354
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Speaker 1: song to be started until there was a killer title

355
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,840
Speaker 1: and there were lyrics and there were things to write about,

356
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,720
Speaker 1: things to say. It wasn't the way I wrote before,

357
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,359
Speaker 1: which was like playing chords and mumbling and hoping that

358
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 1: those mumbles would sound like something, you know, and then

359
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: you kind of, oh, you know, build a whole world

360
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: around that one little mumble. I mean, when I learned

361
00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: how to write the other way, that's when I started

362
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:41,119
Speaker 1: having hits, because you know, I would walk in with

363
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Speaker 1: a title, and he also taught me things like the

364
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: tension of the opposites. Um, you know, so even within

365
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,120
Speaker 1: each line there was you know, tension of opposites. And

366
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: his rhyming had to be tight, like Broadway tight. None

367
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,680
Speaker 1: of this of than love, you know, enough doesn't rhyme

368
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:07,640
Speaker 1: with love, you know, it was he was like strict

369
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,440
Speaker 1: so and every line had to flow into the next.

370
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:15,600
Speaker 1: There couldn't be these disconnected thoughts. And like, for instance,

371
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Speaker 1: sometimes I hear songs that it's like you this or that,

372
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: and then the guy gets to the course and he

373
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Speaker 1: starts singing. She was like, what, So Bob cleared all

374
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: those cobwebs out of my mind, and so I knew

375
00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:33,480
Speaker 1: to walk in with the title. Okay, just a little

376
00:22:33,520 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 1: bit slower, you have this ship. The bon Jovi hits

377
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Speaker 1: aren't until really, what are you living? On the royalties

378
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: from I was made for Loving You. Okay, that's covering you. Yeah,

379
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 1: you're working with Bob Crew. Did you have a specific

380
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: time you started. Yes, Well, we would meet at I

381
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,560
Speaker 1: think it was called Boni on Street off of Broadway,

382
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: across the street from the mod this modern building where

383
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,879
Speaker 1: he had his studio, and it was lunch special. I

384
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: think it was like four nine six. And it always

385
00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: had to be Dutch because he was like in the

386
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,879
Speaker 1: program and he used to fly planes to Paris to

387
00:23:10,920 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: have croissants with his friends. Wait wait wait wait wait

388
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: wait wait wait, had to be the program. I think

389
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,639
Speaker 1: of alcoholics anonymous. He's not the program, but in his

390
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: own thing, he was like so overly generous that he

391
00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 1: blew like so much money on lavish parties and all that.

392
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,119
Speaker 1: So for his program he had to um like, everything

393
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,719
Speaker 1: had to be Dutch. So I paid my my, you know,

394
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: my five bucks, and he pays five bucks and we

395
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 1: eat the lunch special. So flying to Paris for croissant

396
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,879
Speaker 1: was before you got in the picture. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah,

397
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: with you know, movie stars and you know. Did he

398
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,239
Speaker 1: retain the ownership of his songs. I think he did, right,

399
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: I think he did okay, Yeah, okay, okay, So you

400
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,200
Speaker 1: went for went for lunch, you paid your five bucks.

401
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: Then at one o'clock we'd have to be I'd have

402
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,040
Speaker 1: to be sitting on that bench ready to go, and

403
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: then we'd start. And just so I know, it was

404
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 1: a piano bench. Yeah, hard, So both of you were

405
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: sitting in front of the piano. No, he was on, yes,

406
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: and he was on the stool higher up, high up.

407
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: And then at six o'clock sharp, session would end and

408
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: he'd leave to go to his meeting. And five days

409
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:27,400
Speaker 1: a week, almost two years, we wrote thirty eight songs together. Okay,

410
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: So when you sat down at one o'clock, did one

411
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: of the two of you already have a title in mind?

412
00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 1: We'd be talking and a lot of it was he

413
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: was telling stories from the wild sixties and when he

414
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: met Maria Kllis on the beach in Centrope, and that

415
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,879
Speaker 1: night they threw a little soiree and they both sang

416
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:54,640
Speaker 1: together and like, oh, these amazing stories and the crazy,

417
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 1: crazy Hollywood orgies and just everything. And so then some

418
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:03,960
Speaker 1: thing and something he would say would spark a title.

419
00:25:04,560 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: Is that, Oh that sounds like a good title, And

420
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 1: so we'd write down a bunch of titles and then

421
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,199
Speaker 1: we pick the strongest one and start and then usually

422
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 1: we couldn't get through that song that day, so the

423
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 1: next day we'd pick up and finish that song, and

424
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 1: so then the next time it was like that, Okay,

425
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: once you have the title, how did you write the song? Um? Well,

426
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 1: he explained that lyrics have melody in our language, like

427
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: I just went data, see what I'm saying. So then

428
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:48,119
Speaker 1: how fast you say it? You sing it? And the

429
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: um scoring because he compared lyrics to the script. The

430
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: music is a score. You make the movie first and

431
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: then you score it. Because if a scene is supposed

432
00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:00,919
Speaker 1: to be spooky, then you put in the dark courts.

433
00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,280
Speaker 1: If it's supposed to be happy, then you make it

434
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: sound happy. So that was how he related it to me.

435
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: So in a lot of my productions, I try to

436
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,960
Speaker 1: make the production cinematic, trying to bring out the meaning

437
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 1: perfect example, like limon labla loca. When you get to

438
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 1: the second verse, you hear a gong and he goes

439
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: woke up in New York City in a fun kitchy hotel,

440
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: and I that imagine that you know, whore house in

441
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: Chinatown everything's red beaded curtains, incense, you know, And so

442
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 1: the gong spoke of that like it just evoked that

443
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 1: whole kind of bohemian you know moment you know of

444
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: him just crazy. You know, she took my heart and

445
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: she took my money. She must have slipped me a

446
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,919
Speaker 1: sleeping pill, because remember all those urban legends of waking

447
00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 1: up without kidneys and so so okay, so I don't

448
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: And then you would write the lyrics. Yeah, we'd write that.

449
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: We write the lyrics for the chorus, and then once

450
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,399
Speaker 1: we got that, then it would speak to us like, uh,

451
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:18,200
Speaker 1: what how the verses should be, whether they should be

452
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: like halftime or whether they should be in the same

453
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 1: brick brisk manner or depending on what we were we

454
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:30,399
Speaker 1: were writing. And so that discipline taught me everything. And

455
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: that's the discipline I walk into a but but it

456
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: just keeps staying on that. You write the chorus, you

457
00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,280
Speaker 1: write the first at the time, are you thinking of

458
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 1: the bridge? Are you thinking? Because everything depends on whether

459
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 1: you've made that that hook payoff and everything that that supported,

460
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:54,760
Speaker 1: all the little you know, braces that that hold up

461
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: that title and pay off the title. So so you know,

462
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: so times to make it really pay off, sometimes you

463
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,240
Speaker 1: have to start really on the down low, with slow phrases,

464
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: lots of time between the things you're saying, and then

465
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,440
Speaker 1: usually have a channel B section that kind of starts

466
00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:19,000
Speaker 1: to wind up the tension, wind up the tension, so

467
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: by the time you hit the chorus, you're ready for it.

468
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 1: You're ready for the rain to to fall, You're ready

469
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: for the sun to come up. You're ready, you know,

470
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 1: for for whatever is being promised. And so with that

471
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,639
Speaker 1: in mind, you know, that's why I started having hits

472
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: like okay, wait, just so I know, because thinking of

473
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: all those Beatles hits, a lot of them had bridges.

474
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: Assuming you do have a bridge as a songwriter, does

475
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,680
Speaker 1: that come later or is that something when do you say, oh,

476
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 1: I want to change it up? I think after the

477
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: second chorus. Then you have to have something to stay

478
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 1: in the song that's worth staying in the song for

479
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: that you haven't heard before. I saw a lot of

480
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 1: contemporary music that's just written on the same loop with

481
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,760
Speaker 1: the same chords. It's just cut and paste, and then

482
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 1: it's like nothing changes harmonically, and and and the trick

483
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: is to make it every time you hear those same

484
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 1: chords go by having it sound different somehow with texture,

485
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 1: with you know how fast you're saying things I mean

486
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: and I I'm writing songs like that also these days.

487
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: But back then it was like now we had to

488
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: clean the palette, the bridge, had to take us to

489
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: a new place, had to modulate, had to go, had

490
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: to maybe we want the last course to be modulated.

491
00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: So that's where we start modulating. So when you get it,

492
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like the the you like this kind

493
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: of forced modulation. Okay, you wrote thirty eight songs together.

494
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:47,400
Speaker 1: Was he working with anybody else or just you just me?

495
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: What happened to those thirty eight songs? I have them?

496
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: And did any of them end up becoming hits? Why

497
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,200
Speaker 1: do you think that is? We wrote two songs and

498
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: then he got me a deal at Epic Records, um,

499
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: and you know, they didn't take me seriously or anything

500
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: like that, and they just kind of they went by

501
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: the wayside. And they weren't kind of progressive like the

502
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: stuff I was doing with Desmond Child and Rouge. They

503
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: were more like trying to be like what George Michael

504
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:24,200
Speaker 1: later became, like Blue Eyed Soul, and so you know,

505
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 1: I didn't really know who I wasn't. Also, I was really,

506
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, struggling with you know the fact that well,

507
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 1: how am I going to be an out artist? No

508
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 1: women would follow me? Who the other ones that would

509
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 1: buy records of a balladeer or kind of romantic figure?

510
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: And I remember by then I was already twenty six,

511
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: so I just didn't I didn't know who I was,

512
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: and I was very lost. And then remember all my

513
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 1: friends were dying of AIDS and I was terrified, you know,

514
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: that I would be next. So had you been promiscuous?

515
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: Not really, but you know, not even people that just

516
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 1: had boyfriends or you know, they would get infected. No,

517
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: I know, we all know a lot of people. The

518
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: husband you have, now, how long have you been together

519
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 1: with him? Thirty two years? Okay, let's park that for

520
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: a second. You work for Bob Crew for two weeks

521
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 1: for two years? How does it end with Bob Crew? Well,

522
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: when my singles didn't take off, I think it was

523
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 1: disappointing for him, you know, and disappointing for me. And

524
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:35,240
Speaker 1: I was also I mean, I remember, um, we're writing

525
00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 1: a song, and remember he wrote Lady Marmalade, so he

526
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 1: was lucky with the word lady, and so we're writing

527
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: something that had you know, baby maybe, and then he said,

528
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 1: we'll sing lady. I said I can't. I can't sing lady.

529
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, even if I'm not out, I'm just not

530
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: not gonna sing lady. Ironically, I later wrote a song

531
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: with ar Smith called Dude looks like a little right right, Okay, okay, whatever,

532
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: and and I just burst out crying no because he

533
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: was like bearing down on me. He says, you know,

534
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: I don't know how I wrote all those hits without you,

535
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: you know, and all this stuff. And I just like,

536
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: like like droplets of tears were It's like that movie

537
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: about the Little drummer, remember Whiplash, you know, right right right?

538
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: I mean he was he was he was wonderful. He

539
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: was never mean like that, but he was strong. And

540
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 1: he said, you know this is bullshit. You know, you know,

541
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: sing lady. And I said I just cannot sing lady.

542
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: And so um he when I started like crying, and

543
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: all the frustration and maybe all the sadness of all

544
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: my friends had died or everything, I just broke down

545
00:32:51,000 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 1: and he came around. He gave me a hug and everything,

546
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: and he was really like the you know, a father

547
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: to me and um, and I think it was you know,

548
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:05,520
Speaker 1: I really felt like we had done our time. You know.

549
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't like I was being you know, disloyal, but

550
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: it was like I couldn't go forward with him because

551
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: I had all these other influences and feelings. And remember

552
00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: that punk music was in the air in New York

553
00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: and the Cure and all of that and all of

554
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: those things were in my brain too that did not

555
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:30,600
Speaker 1: fit into his world. And so you know then you know,

556
00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 1: were part of ways. But I remember when I was

557
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 1: producing Ricky Martin and I was doing strings in l

558
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: A and he came to the session and he sat

559
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 1: next to me, and uh, he was just like glowing,

560
00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 1: you know, just like so proud of me. You were

561
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: protget Okay, when you were writing with him, did you

562
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: both write lyrics and music? Yes, well I was playing

563
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: the chords and kind of driving more than male lities,

564
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: and he was more strong leaning on the lyrics. But

565
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: I also was was it's hard keeping up with him,

566
00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: you know, just like now these days when I write

567
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 1: with people, it's like it's hard for them to keep

568
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: up with me because I already I wrote it. Oh,

569
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 1: oh that's cool. That sounds really good. Okay, we'll sing that.

570
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: You know, if you can, you do it. And also,

571
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,800
Speaker 1: you know you're inspired, so you don't want to hold

572
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 1: yourself back to listen to somebody's kind of Oh yeah,

573
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: well you have a nicer personality than me. I I

574
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: can't handle that well. And you know, maybe why I

575
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: work alone. So after Bob Crew, before bon Jovi, what's happening? Well,

576
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: I mean I wrote a revolutionary song actually, which was

577
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,719
Speaker 1: a call I got from Jim Steinman and he was

578
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: producing Bonnie Tyler after he had already had Total Eclipse

579
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: of the Heart and then he time, of course legendary

580
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 1: working bad out of hell. Yes, and so he had

581
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:08,040
Speaker 1: written um um, total Eclipse of the Heart for Bonnie Tyler,

582
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: and so he said, I want you to write me

583
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: a song. Okay, did you know Jim Steinman. No, but

584
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 1: Mike Winston did, and so it's Winston still your manager,

585
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 1: and so you know he um. He said, Okay, this

586
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: is what I want. I want the verses to sound

587
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:29,480
Speaker 1: like Tina Turner. I want the B section to sound

588
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: like the Police, Yeah, and then I want the chorus

589
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: to sound like Bruce Springsteen. So I wrote this song

590
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:39,319
Speaker 1: called if You're a Woman and I was a man,

591
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: and it started out with the chorus all a capella,

592
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,359
Speaker 1: you know, and um, it went, if you were a

593
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,600
Speaker 1: woman and I was a man, would it be so hot?

594
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 1: To understand? That? A hot? It's a hot and you

595
00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: do what you can? If you were a woman and

596
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 1: I was a man, do do do do do do

597
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: do right? And I was playing, uh, you know, I

598
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: I love that these dreams and Billy Jean at that time,

599
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,000
Speaker 1: so I was came up with a variation, you know,

600
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,040
Speaker 1: and the song completely went, you know, from style to

601
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: from the style, and so she she had it as

602
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: a hit only in one country, France. Okay, just so

603
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: I know the uh you wrote it? He didn't get

604
00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: any co writing credit, He said, you wrote it. So

605
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: I solely wrote the song. So it was a hit

606
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,880
Speaker 1: in France. And so when I went to write with

607
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: bon Jovi, you know, I was piste off because I

608
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,279
Speaker 1: knew that I had a hit chorus. And so when

609
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: I had the title, I came in with the title

610
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:54,160
Speaker 1: you give love a bad name? Where'd you get that from? Wait?

611
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 1: Just one second, When you wrote the hit for Bonnie Tyler,

612
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,560
Speaker 1: how long did it take you to write it? Well,

613
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:02,160
Speaker 1: it took me a long time because I was trying

614
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: to engineer and record everything myself. Okay, let let me

615
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: ask you a different questions. Are you the type of

616
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: person uh where it happens very fast or you get

617
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,799
Speaker 1: the idea and then it's developed faster or slow? How

618
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 1: do you do it? Or you do it differently every time?

619
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 1: Usually these days it usually takes me two days to

620
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: write a song, co write a song with folks that

621
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: are on my level of writing, okay, And by that time,

622
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: if someone could take the demo right into the studio

623
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: and just cut it just okay. So you walk into

624
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,279
Speaker 1: the house, Jon bon Jovi's on the phone, Richie takes

625
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: you back downstairs, and you have you gave love a

626
00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 1: bad name from where I just came up with it

627
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: because Bob had told me, had taught me how to

628
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: write songs where the title had irony right, you know?

629
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: And so I mean, were you just that the title

630
00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 1: comes to you in a shower or were you working

631
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: hard to come up with something. I was preparing for

632
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: my session and then I thought, well, you give love

633
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 1: a bad name. Love bad opposites and already the tension

634
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:14,239
Speaker 1: of the opposite. You're curious, what is what's you know?

635
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: Heavens on fire? Um, I was made for loving you.

636
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: That's not so much. But uh, I hate myself for

637
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 1: loving you. How can we be lovers if we can't

638
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: be friends? You know? It goes on and on. Uh.

639
00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: And I've been really successful with with that technique. Okay,

640
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,560
Speaker 1: So now you're in the basement with Richie. What happens?

641
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: So Richie brings me a glass of water, then he

642
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: brings me a cup of coffee, and John still on

643
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: the phone. So finally he comes down and um, you know,

644
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 1: you know that you were talking and this and that,

645
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 1: and I pull out the title you give Love a

646
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: Bad Name. And that was my first glimpse of the

647
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: billion dollar smile. It was like it was dark down there,

648
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,959
Speaker 1: but when that's mile head, it was like the room

649
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 1: lit up. It was like, oh my god, he's a star,

650
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 1: look at him. And so he had a song called

651
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: We're talking about Richie Now John, Wait, wait, wait, just

652
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,479
Speaker 1: to be yea yeah, and we taught chichat. Then John

653
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: finally comes down and he says, he was like, okay,

654
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: what do you gott I got this title, and he

655
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,960
Speaker 1: his face just lit up, and so I was like,

656
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 1: and you know, so he had a song on a

657
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,719
Speaker 1: previous album called Shot through the Heart, and he's not

658
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: wanting to let a good hook go to waste either,

659
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: so he threw down shot through the Heart and you

660
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: to blame. And then the three of us said, you

661
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: give love a bad name. And that was our first

662
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 1: three fists in the air, you know, like high five moment.

663
00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: And uh. Then I started. I started contributing my hook

664
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 1: from if You a Woman and I was a man

665
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,000
Speaker 1: because I just felt like, you know, I had that

666
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: you know, kind of Jersey feeling right like because of

667
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 1: the night. I gotta tell you funny story about Springstey night.

668
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:14,160
Speaker 1: I met him only one time and I said, hey,

669
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: thanks for all those hits I wrote, and he just

670
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:23,719
Speaker 1: fell on the floor laughing because that, you know, that

671
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,319
Speaker 1: upward thing, like because the night and everything and so

672
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:31,880
Speaker 1: um so uh and so I I started playing again

673
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: that do do do Do Do Do Do Do Do

674
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 1: Do Do Do Do Do Do on the piano, and

675
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: I and Richie's was like, no, hey man, no, that's

676
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 1: that's like that's like Billy Jean that's like Michael Jackson stuff,

677
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: I said, played on guitar, but like do it like chugs,

678
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:54,080
Speaker 1: like tight chugs. And then he went to John's second time,

679
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 1: face lit up and the song just like flowed right out,

680
00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 1: right out, and then all of those lyrics that could

681
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,919
Speaker 1: not have been you know, I could not have been

682
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: in that session without Bob Crewe on my shoulder, you know,

683
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, blood red nails on her fingertips, you know,

684
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: all those descriptions that he was so good at, you know,

685
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 1: creole lady marmalade, you know all of that. You know

686
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: that's all built in, you know, to the that song

687
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: and many others. Okay, so you'll write that song. Is

688
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 1: it all written that day? Yeah? Okay? Was that the

689
00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: only song that day? Or yes, that was the only thing? Okay.

690
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: So then they were so happy that then they called

691
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,359
Speaker 1: for another session. This time we did in New York City,

692
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 1: and I borrowed an apartment that belonged to a friend

693
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 1: of mine, Duck Schneider, And it was on twenty third

694
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: Street or two street off Eighth Avenue, and it was

695
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 1: just like this walk up and this and that, and

696
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: there was this big old you know, broken down upright

697
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,600
Speaker 1: piano and where we wrote living on a Prayer? Okay,

698
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: who wrote Johnny were used to working on the docks? Well,

699
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: well that's the whole thing everybody brought there, stick to

700
00:42:14,200 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: to the session. But because of the time that I

701
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: lived with Maria on the Upper East Side where it

702
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 1: was one of the most beautiful times, and she worked

703
00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: as a waitress at a place called Once upon a Stove,

704
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 1: and she was a singing waitress. So all the singing

705
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: waiters and waitresses had like fake names. So hers was

706
00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: Gina Velvet. So then everybody, we all just started calling

707
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 1: her Gina, you know, because she reminded us of Gina

708
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: Lila Bridgeta. And so I can I said, you know, um,

709
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 1: the story of Johnny and Gina and Johnny because that's

710
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: my original name. So I was sneaking myself into the song,

711
00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 1: and john said, I can't sing Johnny. People think I'm

712
00:42:55,960 --> 00:43:00,279
Speaker 1: singing about myself. My name's Johnny. Was like Tommy. It

713
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,399
Speaker 1: was a song alike, and that's how Tommy and Gina

714
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:06,239
Speaker 1: was born. Okay, And then on that album, didn't you

715
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,680
Speaker 1: co write one more song? Three more? Okay? Well, it

716
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 1: was like you give love a bad name? Living on

717
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: a Prayer and then um, there were two others. Right, Okay,

718
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 1: how long after you write those songs do they cut

719
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: them in Vancouver? Months? Like next month. I mean they

720
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:28,759
Speaker 1: were like hustling. They had fifty songs and uh. One

721
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: of the great things that they did, they like invented

722
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,920
Speaker 1: poloing or something. They would get all their friends, brothers

723
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,720
Speaker 1: and sisters from their high schools to all go into

724
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:42,879
Speaker 1: this little theater and then they play one song after

725
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: the other and the kids would kind of like with

726
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,640
Speaker 1: their applause, they would judge which ones they liked better.

727
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: They would play them live or player recording recording played

728
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 1: the demos and they were like, okay, what do you

729
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 1: think of that one? You know, it's like but when

730
00:43:56,480 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: one was special, then they'd go crazy. They cut that one.

731
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: So because John was serious about it's like, kids have

732
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,440
Speaker 1: to pick this record, kids have to want this record.

733
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: It has to be what they want. And he was

734
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:14,799
Speaker 1: a kid himself, he's two and so these kids were

735
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: almost his age. So it was like, uh, really, And

736
00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: I went to one of those sessions and it was great.

737
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 1: But they they wrote and wrote and wrote and wrote

738
00:44:23,960 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: and wrote to get those songs. I mean, I think

739
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: one of the songs that we wrote for that UM

740
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:33,520
Speaker 1: for Slippery was a song called We All Sleep Alone.

741
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: But John felt it was too um passive or feminine almost,

742
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: and it's you know, we All Sleep Alone. It's like

743
00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: it had more gravitas when Share sang it because of

744
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:52,720
Speaker 1: her history and all that. And Um I was asked

745
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 1: by John Kloner to produce Share because of my success,

746
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: and so UM I had them co produced We All

747
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 1: Sleep Alone and another song that was my from my childhood,

748
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,640
Speaker 1: Bang Bang, and I had gone down to Palm Springs

749
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: to have Sunny bano I'll write an extra verse because

750
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,719
Speaker 1: that song originally was two minutes long. So he was

751
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: so gracious and he you know, I went down there

752
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: and I didn't contribute anything. I just like he did it.

753
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: And then I went back and I cut it and

754
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,839
Speaker 1: we decided, you know, I wanted to do something. So

755
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 1: it was heavy metal with that song. So and UM

756
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:38,399
Speaker 1: that was you know, you know that's when Richie mit

757
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: Share and you know that became tabloid heaven and UM.

758
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: So you know, that was like a wonderful time because

759
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, we had written these extra songs and so

760
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, I think we we had another song um

761
00:45:56,520 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: that was cut by a Canadian band that they and cut.

762
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: How did you feel about them leaving some of your

763
00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: songs off the record? I was happy they had one. Okay,

764
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: So they go to Vancouver, they cut the record. Do

765
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:13,880
Speaker 1: you go to Vancouver? Went to Vancouver to do the

766
00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:17,640
Speaker 1: last minute tweaking of the lyrics? Okay? And how long

767
00:46:17,680 --> 00:46:21,200
Speaker 1: were you in Vancouver for maybe like four or five days? Briefly?

768
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 1: How much did Bruce Fairburn contribute? I was never in

769
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:27,879
Speaker 1: the room when he was producing, so this I had

770
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: to like wait till the end of the night, and

771
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: then they'd show up back at the apartments that they had,

772
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: and then after that we'd go to some strip joint. Right.

773
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: So was it as wild as they said it was?

774
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: It was wild, but it was normal. Why right? Okay?

775
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: You know, So were you happy with Fairburn's production? I

776
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:52,520
Speaker 1: couldn't imagine them better, and they brought them to life

777
00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:56,040
Speaker 1: like beyond my wildest dreams. And then later, of course,

778
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,760
Speaker 1: when I was writing with Arrowsmith, same thing. He brought

779
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 1: the those songs like to a whole other level. I mean,

780
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:07,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the biggest tragedies in music that we

781
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: lost him, And you know, it's not that often that

782
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm you know, listening to a song that I wrote

783
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: that didn't turn out well. You know, I'm usually producing

784
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 1: these days of songs that I write. But you know,

785
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 1: he like topped it, and that showed in a way

786
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:33,239
Speaker 1: that it's like sometimes having an objective person come in

787
00:47:33,880 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 1: can really, you know, be so much better. And a

788
00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 1: good example is I wrote a song with Antonina Our

789
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: Motto and Tim James Rock Mafia called Beautiful Now, and

790
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 1: they took it to Z and I mean it was

791
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 1: the same song and everything, but what Z did to it,

792
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:57,279
Speaker 1: he brought it to a whole other level. And I

793
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: couldn't have been more pleased. So when you work with

794
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 1: people that have taste and know what they're doing, they're

795
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 1: not going to create something that's bad. Okay, so the

796
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: record is done. Do you have any idea it's gonna

797
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: be the monster that it is? Slippery went went No.

798
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: I just thought there was just like another band from

799
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: New Jersey. I knew we had some good songs, and

800
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:23,799
Speaker 1: I didn't. I had no idea. But you know, it's

801
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: like one of those things Bob Crewe would always talk

802
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,400
Speaker 1: about what is a star and you look up in

803
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,239
Speaker 1: the sky and you see this extra bright star and

804
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,239
Speaker 1: then later you find out, well, no, those were ten

805
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 1: stars all lined up. So he said, okay, first you

806
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 1: have the masthead, which is the actual person, then the song,

807
00:48:42,320 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: then the management or the production than the management, the

808
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,640
Speaker 1: pr guy, the record company, how much money they put

809
00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:56,120
Speaker 1: into it, dada. And when they all line up, you know,

810
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: and someone's in their moment, fantastic things can happen, and

811
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:07,880
Speaker 1: that's really rare, and and you know, I've been part

812
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 1: of some of those moments, and so I think the

813
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: key to begin with is that the song has to

814
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:20,080
Speaker 1: really fit the arc type of the person singing it

815
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: in a very deep way. And I learned that from

816
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:26,359
Speaker 1: my acting coach, Sondra Secat, because when she would be

817
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: analyzing scripts and characters and trying to merge an actor

818
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,719
Speaker 1: into a part, like trying to really establish, well, what

819
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: is the arch type of the actor just as a person,

820
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: what's the art type of the character. The closer you

821
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: can get some somebody to be the same thing, the

822
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: stronger the performance is going to be. Because we're hardwired.

823
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: Just like thinking there's a snake in the corner, we're

824
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:56,719
Speaker 1: hardwired wired to recognize universal archetypes from history. So you know,

825
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: so I always explained this. So you have an arch

826
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:04,120
Speaker 1: type John bon Jovi, he's like the warrior, you know,

827
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 1: He's he's like the guy next door. He's all sunshine

828
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: and like go and fight for the cause. And then

829
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 1: you have the devil and that's Alice Cooper, the dark

830
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: you know, and so all those you know, archetypes are

831
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: within everybody, and we love to see them outside of ourselves.

832
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: Like just like in tribes, they wore masks and they

833
00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:36,920
Speaker 1: played characters because it's fulfilled something inside us. That's what

834
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 1: I believe. So when I work with the people that

835
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: are trying to find themselves, I try to like, let's

836
00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: get down to, like what's your arc type? Who are you?

837
00:50:46,960 --> 00:50:50,359
Speaker 1: You know, there was always Venus, and then there was

838
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 1: Gene Harlow, and then there was Marilyn Monroe. Then there

839
00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 1: was Gwen Stefani. Right, who's Medusa, you know, Joan Crawford, Madonna,

840
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:08,279
Speaker 1: Lady Gaga, she actually wears snakes on you know. So

841
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: when somebody's like close and there's it's so fulfilling, like

842
00:51:12,719 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 1: silence of the lamps, like the serial killer, we just

843
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: can't wait to see him back on the screen. So

844
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,600
Speaker 1: I always bear that in mind. And usually when you

845
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: when you have an instinct like that, all of a sudden,

846
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: the person starts to find themselves because what happens is

847
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: they get signed because maybe this kid looks like Justin Bieber,

848
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: and then the competing label thinks, well, he's got the

849
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:39,399
Speaker 1: Justin Bieber hair do and maybe the same kids will

850
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 1: like him too. So much happens like that, and they think,

851
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 1: well sometimes and it can work sometimes. You know, you

852
00:51:46,680 --> 00:51:49,759
Speaker 1: have the Beatles and you have the Monkeys, right and

853
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: so um, that's not being an artist. And I always

854
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 1: try to tell the people I work with it's like,

855
00:51:59,239 --> 00:52:01,520
Speaker 1: don't you want occur real? Like Shade, there's no one

856
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: like that. She can make a record every eight years

857
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 1: and it's a hit. She doesn't care because she's living

858
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:09,960
Speaker 1: her life, and then she writes about it and in time,

859
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 1: those little strands become what she offers. I mean, you

860
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:19,239
Speaker 1: want people to come to a market that's only you.

861
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,040
Speaker 1: That's the best kind of career to have, and then

862
00:52:23,080 --> 00:52:26,839
Speaker 1: it's forever and then you're not you know, you're not

863
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: chasing empty dreams. And you know that's the thing that's

864
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: not taught. I mean, for the last thirty years we've

865
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 1: had the arts pulled from the schools. Where does somebody

866
00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:44,880
Speaker 1: even see a picture of a Michelangelo or anything in

867
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: public schools out there? How do they start to build

868
00:52:50,040 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: the feeling of like, oh, that's my place in this world.

869
00:52:54,600 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 1: I'm an artist, I'm here too, you know, reflect my

870
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:07,000
Speaker 1: times and also something deeper, innate that I have to

871
00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 1: do for my own evolution as a person. Those thoughts

872
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: don't come into things. It's like, Okay, I love that

873
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: beat from that song. Pull up that beat, Come on,

874
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,640
Speaker 1: come on, pull up the beat. Let's just put the

875
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:23,000
Speaker 1: chords from this other song. And but what are they

876
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: talking about there? Okay, let's flip it and make it

877
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 1: something like that. And okay, yeah, you might get the

878
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: song cut. But does it change the course of pop music?

879
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: Does it matter? Does it does it heal the world?

880
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:46,600
Speaker 1: Or do something you know that's necessary for the evolution

881
00:53:46,680 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: of humanity or or a plan. I mean, those sounds

882
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:51,840
Speaker 1: like really grand things. Let's happen. Forget about humanity, the

883
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 1: evolution of that person. He chooses that career so he

884
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,120
Speaker 1: can bring something out that he desperately has to say

885
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: they're so rare people that are authentic. I could go

886
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,839
Speaker 1: on and on about this, and you articulated brilliantly, and

887
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:09,240
Speaker 1: you give me insight. Let me go to a nitty

888
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: gritty that really does not square with that, but it's reality. Okay,

889
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: you've had a lot of success on every level. If

890
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,840
Speaker 1: you're following your dream, frequently in the arts, you're starving.

891
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: Many people are unwilling to starve and so therefore they

892
00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:34,280
Speaker 1: never developed their artistry. What is the key to perseverance? Well,

893
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:38,080
Speaker 1: I know because like we were so poor, and my

894
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 1: mother was kind of like Blanche Dubois Cuban, you know,

895
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,279
Speaker 1: like poet, but she was also had a hustle that

896
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: was like Angelica Houston and the Grifters. She dressed me

897
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,440
Speaker 1: up in a little suit and we she she had

898
00:54:54,480 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: one dress, and we go to a cocktail party and

899
00:54:57,239 --> 00:55:00,400
Speaker 1: we would troll that cocktail party for a millionaire. Uh

900
00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:04,200
Speaker 1: that would you know see a built in family ready

901
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: to make him look good. Because my mother was very beautiful.

902
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: She wasn't successful at it. But the hustle Okay, now

903
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: you say this, you say that, so there's a hustle

904
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: when you when you're born poor, you know, but I

905
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:24,160
Speaker 1: think there's something also that people know in certain genres.

906
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 1: Who's real, who's cool, what's what's what has it? And

907
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:36,040
Speaker 1: it's you can't you can't fool people. I agree with everything. Well,

908
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 1: let's park that, but the hustle has to be there,

909
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 1: not only outwardly to connect the dots, absolutely inwardly. Inwardly

910
00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: more important than the world comes to you if you're

911
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:53,440
Speaker 1: beaming with something that needs to be out there. Okay,

912
00:55:54,120 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: that album comes out slippery. When webb, it's like an

913
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:01,239
Speaker 1: instant success, it's mega, goes on for the better part

914
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:08,719
Speaker 1: of two years. What do you think about? What about them? No?

915
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: You know you're gonna get a big pay day? B

916
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,759
Speaker 1: is the phone start ringing off the hook? Well? I

917
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 1: tried to make the most of it because remember that

918
00:56:23,160 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: at that time and for decades before, I don't think ever,

919
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,879
Speaker 1: there was an out producer, so there was a real

920
00:56:31,960 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 1: glass ceiling. So the bands would be okay being co

921
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:43,960
Speaker 1: writer because it was inequality there. But when you're the producer,

922
00:56:44,360 --> 00:56:48,279
Speaker 1: you're the boss ultimately, and you have to get in

923
00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: there and dick slap these people into shape. And that's

924
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:57,320
Speaker 1: something that they just their homophobia or whatever couldn't permit

925
00:56:58,640 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: a gay man to be the off of them. So

926
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:03,839
Speaker 1: for you know, I couldn't ever get one of those

927
00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:06,920
Speaker 1: bands to let me be the producer, even though I

928
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: heard albums they made with other producers like are you

929
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 1: kidding me? I could have made a masterpiece here? What

930
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: what is this? And so you know, they gave me

931
00:57:17,720 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: the kind of what I call the weirdos, the androgynous people,

932
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: soul l artists. Um, my first production was Ronnie Specter

933
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:33,480
Speaker 1: and then you know Share and Alice Cooper, Joan Jet. Okay, no,

934
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,280
Speaker 1: so okay, wait, wait who did you want to be?

935
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: Do you want to be a producer, a songwriter and

936
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:42,080
Speaker 1: artist or where what's the hierarchy there? No? I wanted

937
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:44,800
Speaker 1: to be a star myself. I wanted to be a superstar,

938
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,680
Speaker 1: but I didn't have the confidence because of my own issues,

939
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:54,640
Speaker 1: you know, and I was I was having so much

940
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: success that I didn't want to stop it. I said, well,

941
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: when I'm rich and then my mother's safe and we're

942
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:05,040
Speaker 1: all good, then I'll try then then then my moment

943
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,880
Speaker 1: will come. But so many things got in the way,

944
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, and life got in the way, and I

945
00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: was just like I didn't in the end, I didn't.

946
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: I'm very thin skinned. I didn't have the confidence, and um,

947
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: so I think that. And also I was so good

948
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,640
Speaker 1: at looking outside of myself and pinpointing. Well, like I

949
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: could see somebody, I could see the stars around them,

950
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: and then I could see the dark cloud in front

951
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,880
Speaker 1: of the stars. And I was good at like scraping

952
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: away stuff to get to how that person could shine.

953
00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it for myself. And so, you know,

954
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,480
Speaker 1: I made an album that I'm not that happy about

955
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:51,440
Speaker 1: in nine called Discipline, and I was just so desperate

956
00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:54,160
Speaker 1: to be a star that and I didn't have a

957
00:58:54,200 --> 00:58:58,800
Speaker 1: producer and I didn't have anybody to dick slap me into,

958
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:04,760
Speaker 1: like what, And I wasn't out on that record. It

959
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: was like a lie in a way, you know, I was.

960
00:59:08,480 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 1: I think I'm a good singer, you know, I really,

961
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:15,040
Speaker 1: I think I've finally actually gotten good. You know. It

962
00:59:15,080 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: took me a long time to really when singing connect

963
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: and not try to think, well is it as good

964
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: as this is that, because that's what goes through people's minds.

965
00:59:24,240 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: So now when I'm you know, on the other side

966
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: of the glass, you know, finally am my age I'm

967
00:59:31,360 --> 00:59:34,600
Speaker 1: able to, like, you know, sing with soul, you know,

968
00:59:34,680 --> 00:59:38,360
Speaker 1: but it took me a lot, very my whole life. Okay,

969
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,680
Speaker 1: you write the bon Jovie songs? Do you start or

970
00:59:41,760 --> 00:59:44,800
Speaker 1: your managers start getting a lot of inquiries about people

971
00:59:44,840 --> 00:59:47,080
Speaker 1: and the right. Yeah, they wanted my songs, but didn't

972
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:49,560
Speaker 1: want me to produce them. Okay, so what did you

973
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:55,760
Speaker 1: do well? Like, for instance, um, Mike great friend now

974
00:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,640
Speaker 1: Jason Flam he had a girl singer that he was

975
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 1: trying to promote, and he had heard my song, just

976
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:04,400
Speaker 1: like Jesse James, and wanted to cut it. And I

977
01:00:04,440 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: had written it for Bonnie Tyler because I ended up

978
01:00:07,240 --> 01:00:11,919
Speaker 1: producing Bonnie Tyland. That's a whole wonderful story. Um, but

979
01:00:12,000 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 1: this was a song that Bonnie wouldn't sing because she

980
01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:17,360
Speaker 1: was embarrassed. Her mother would think it was too suggestive,

981
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: you know, walking into town slinging a gun, smalltown dude

982
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,400
Speaker 1: with a big city attitude. Just that was enough to

983
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: say Bonnie didn't cut it. So he had heard it

984
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 1: and wanted it desperately. I said, but I have to

985
01:00:30,200 --> 01:00:32,680
Speaker 1: produce it, and no, no, no, you know, because we

986
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:35,880
Speaker 1: remember Atlantic Records and all that it was, you know,

987
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,760
Speaker 1: like that book right, you know, So I was you know,

988
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:44,120
Speaker 1: it's still like pushed down and um. And so I

989
01:00:44,160 --> 01:00:47,120
Speaker 1: cut it with Share and we had a hit, you know,

990
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:51,440
Speaker 1: and um. But I think that that's how it was.

991
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 1: It was like I have to produce it or you

992
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,240
Speaker 1: don't get the song. So then okay, and then you know,

993
01:00:58,280 --> 01:01:02,360
Speaker 1: look at with Alice Cooper, you know, I I produced

994
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,800
Speaker 1: that record Poison Poison, that we co wrote together, and

995
01:01:05,840 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: I brought all the successful people I was working with

996
01:01:08,800 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 1: at the time, Bon Joviero Smith, Jone jet Um, you know,

997
01:01:12,440 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: and then he had Kick Winger and Kane Roberts and

998
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:18,320
Speaker 1: all these people. They all contributed to the record and

999
01:01:19,040 --> 01:01:23,360
Speaker 1: it was a wonderful theatrical piece and that song Poison.

1000
01:01:23,480 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: Listening back to it now, it's like, how I'm good.

1001
01:01:29,520 --> 01:01:32,080
Speaker 1: It was the first hitting Yeah, but just in terms

1002
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: of rock, it was like really evil sounding and it

1003
01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:39,919
Speaker 1: was just like exactly what his art type needed to be. Okay,

1004
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 1: how'd you end up working with Aero Smith John Kalodner

1005
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:52,720
Speaker 1: who had hired Meat for Share? So just so I know,

1006
01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 1: do you had not made a record for Klanter before

1007
01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:58,880
Speaker 1: you got the producing gig Share? Yeah, And he called

1008
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: you do you were you like the first what did

1009
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:03,439
Speaker 1: he call and say? Were you like the first call?

1010
01:02:03,600 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: Called Winston? So my manager, right new Field fielded everything

1011
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: and um, and we had already you know, had success

1012
01:02:11,680 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 1: with Share. But he started seeing the success of bon

1013
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,479
Speaker 1: Jovi and all that. So and we wait, wait wait,

1014
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,040
Speaker 1: I mean he had had success with Cheer you have

1015
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:24,200
Speaker 1: no no, no, no no. He hired me two work

1016
01:02:24,240 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: with Share, right, and I started delivering. Okay, that's what

1017
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 1: I wanted to know. Yeah, And so then I was

1018
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:36,360
Speaker 1: having the number one with bon Jovi. So he he

1019
01:02:36,400 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 1: had made a record with them called Done with Mirrors,

1020
01:02:39,000 --> 01:02:41,400
Speaker 1: which was a total stiff, total stuff. And they were,

1021
01:02:41,800 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: you know, Tim Collins was really trying to get them all,

1022
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:48,960
Speaker 1: you know sober, and the wives sober, and the Roodie sober,

1023
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:51,520
Speaker 1: and everybody was in meetings all the time, and you

1024
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,840
Speaker 1: know it was like a cult. And so he made

1025
01:02:55,840 --> 01:03:01,080
Speaker 1: them meet with me. So I flew to Boston. I

1026
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:04,000
Speaker 1: got brought to this big warehouse where they had the

1027
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:07,400
Speaker 1: stage set up, you know, the mic stand with all

1028
01:03:07,480 --> 01:03:13,000
Speaker 1: the whatever multicolor scarps. But on the floor, you know,

1029
01:03:13,200 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: on the floor level, there were there was an army

1030
01:03:16,040 --> 01:03:19,000
Speaker 1: of guitars must have been a hundred guitars, all with

1031
01:03:19,080 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 1: their own straps that matched the guitar, like Sparkles, Tiger, Leopard, uh,

1032
01:03:25,760 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: you know, Fenders, get you know, Gibson's Unique Ones, Vintage ones,

1033
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,920
Speaker 1: I mean all like it must have been like six rows,

1034
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, with twenty guitars each. I mean, it was

1035
01:03:39,640 --> 01:03:43,600
Speaker 1: like crazy. And then on the side of the stage,

1036
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: I could see the sound man that did this, the

1037
01:03:46,840 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: stage sound on the side, and Joe was over there

1038
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: and they were running a loop. They were putting a

1039
01:03:52,800 --> 01:03:56,600
Speaker 1: guitar loop backwards right, and Stephen was the one that

1040
01:03:56,680 --> 01:03:59,160
Speaker 1: you know big you know warehouse doors. It opened up

1041
01:03:59,200 --> 01:04:02,480
Speaker 1: and you can see the coming through and Stephen comes

1042
01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 1: in towards the door and he's you know, warm, and

1043
01:04:05,880 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 1: you know he's a people pleaser and just you know,

1044
01:04:09,400 --> 01:04:11,800
Speaker 1: it was nice. And so he brought me up. I

1045
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,840
Speaker 1: still hadn't said anything, and he said, well, you know,

1046
01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 1: what do you think about this? And so Joe played

1047
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:22,600
Speaker 1: the loop and it was Antona and Data and Data

1048
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: an donna and remind me of boogie woogie or like

1049
01:04:25,400 --> 01:04:28,480
Speaker 1: whatever from back in the day, right like it was

1050
01:04:28,520 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 1: harmonica or something, and uh, Steven started singing it was

1051
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:38,480
Speaker 1: like Danna and Donna cruising for the lightest data and

1052
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 1: Dada cruising for the latest. And then he stood back

1053
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,840
Speaker 1: and he says, what do you think of that? And

1054
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: I said, I think that's really bad and it was

1055
01:04:50,120 --> 01:04:53,280
Speaker 1: like that was my opening line, and Joe like crossed

1056
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:55,520
Speaker 1: his arms and he was like looking at me. I

1057
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:58,600
Speaker 1: mean he poses that way anyway, looking with his head back.

1058
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:04,560
Speaker 1: I squinty, looking sideways and um, you know. Uh. Stephen

1059
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: was like trying to rescue the situation, and I said,

1060
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:10,720
Speaker 1: you know, Van Halen wouldn't put that on the B

1061
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: side of their worst record, and they were like what.

1062
01:05:14,800 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: I just needed to capture their attention and kind of

1063
01:05:17,880 --> 01:05:20,600
Speaker 1: shocked them into taking me seriously or throw me out,

1064
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:23,200
Speaker 1: you know, the throwing out could have it could have

1065
01:05:23,280 --> 01:05:26,600
Speaker 1: gone that way. And then Stephen, who's the people pleaser,

1066
01:05:27,040 --> 01:05:31,120
Speaker 1: said well, very sheepishly. When I first started singing that hook,

1067
01:05:31,440 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: I was singing, dude looks like a lady. I said, what,

1068
01:05:35,840 --> 01:05:39,640
Speaker 1: dude looks like a lady? And I said that's a

1069
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,200
Speaker 1: hit title because it had the Bob Crue ring dude

1070
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: looks like a lady. It had everything, you know, cruising

1071
01:05:46,800 --> 01:05:49,400
Speaker 1: for the ladies. What sounds that strip top down in

1072
01:05:49,400 --> 01:05:54,200
Speaker 1: a cadillact. We've seen that story, right, David Lee Roth,

1073
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 1: the millions of those, you know, and um but and

1074
01:05:58,920 --> 01:06:01,840
Speaker 1: Joe said, yeah, but we don't know what that means.

1075
01:06:02,800 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 1: And I said, well, I'm gay, I know what that means.

1076
01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,840
Speaker 1: And he goes and so so, you know, I said,

1077
01:06:10,480 --> 01:06:14,080
Speaker 1: bear with me, come on, let's tell the story. So

1078
01:06:14,280 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: we you know, I said, how did you come up

1079
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: with that? And he said, well, we had you know,

1080
01:06:20,000 --> 01:06:22,480
Speaker 1: gone after hours. You know, everybody's on, you know, in

1081
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 1: the program. So we were having our sodas and stuff

1082
01:06:25,480 --> 01:06:28,200
Speaker 1: at this bar and there was, you know, at the

1083
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: end of the empty bar, just sitting on the end

1084
01:06:31,160 --> 01:06:36,960
Speaker 1: was this vision of beauty, this giant blond, teased up

1085
01:06:37,040 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: hair and white skin and black nails and you know,

1086
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 1: curvy and all, you know, very sexy. And then uh

1087
01:06:46,880 --> 01:06:49,320
Speaker 1: and so they were all like drawing straws, you know,

1088
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:51,960
Speaker 1: because they were all you know, married. But there was

1089
01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: a single Roadie or something. Okay, go over there and

1090
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:59,800
Speaker 1: say say hello. So at that moment she turns a

1091
01:07:00,080 --> 01:07:04,080
Speaker 1: round and faces them, and it's Vince Neil of Motley Crewe.

1092
01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:08,000
Speaker 1: And that's when they were like, oh, that dude looks

1093
01:07:08,000 --> 01:07:09,960
Speaker 1: like a lady. That dude looks like a lady. Dude

1094
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: looks like a lady. And that's where he came up

1095
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:19,200
Speaker 1: with it. So it's really funny because because because then

1096
01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:22,320
Speaker 1: I said, okay, so let's write the story. So the

1097
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: whole verses like, walked into a bar on the shore,

1098
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: her picture grace, the grime on the door. Could not

1099
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:32,640
Speaker 1: have written that without Bob Crew, her picture, Grace, the grind,

1100
01:07:32,720 --> 01:07:36,000
Speaker 1: all the alliteration, bar on the shore, picture Grace, the

1101
01:07:36,040 --> 01:07:39,080
Speaker 1: grime on the door. And then Stephen threw and she

1102
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:42,280
Speaker 1: was a long lost love at first bite whatever and so,

1103
01:07:42,800 --> 01:07:44,880
Speaker 1: which was a kind of confusing line because then it

1104
01:07:44,960 --> 01:07:48,280
Speaker 1: sounded like he had been with her before, and so

1105
01:07:48,440 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 1: I tried to stop it, but he loved the way

1106
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 1: the line sounded. He wouldn't change it. And so, so

1107
01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:59,360
Speaker 1: the fantastic thing about the song is that a normal

1108
01:07:59,520 --> 01:08:02,200
Speaker 1: band would have just like said, well, and then you know,

1109
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,560
Speaker 1: I ran out of there, you know, because you know

1110
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 1: that's just too weird. But in this song, no, this

1111
01:08:10,000 --> 01:08:14,400
Speaker 1: the main character stays, you know, let me take a

1112
01:08:14,600 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: peep peek dear, you know, I like it, like it

1113
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:22,000
Speaker 1: like it like that my funky lady, and so he

1114
01:08:22,040 --> 01:08:25,920
Speaker 1: doesn't run away. So the second verse, never judge a

1115
01:08:26,000 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: book by its cover or who are you gonna love

1116
01:08:29,680 --> 01:08:35,320
Speaker 1: by your lover? And if that isn't like LGBT acceptance,

1117
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: and it's like like, if it looks good, go for it, man.

1118
01:08:39,479 --> 01:08:43,760
Speaker 1: You know, you know, it's like don't you know, don't

1119
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:48,360
Speaker 1: stop yourself from going with what you're feeling inside and

1120
01:08:48,360 --> 01:08:51,000
Speaker 1: and accept everybody and all that kind of stuff. Because

1121
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,360
Speaker 1: later on the song became controversial because it was like

1122
01:08:54,439 --> 01:08:57,920
Speaker 1: not politically correct us to say the word tranny or

1123
01:08:58,240 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: you know all you know, all this kind of stuff.

1124
01:09:00,960 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 1: But you know, I think if you look at that

1125
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:05,920
Speaker 1: second verse which they used and missus doubtfire and the

1126
01:09:05,960 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: broom dance, it's like a song of acceptance. And it

1127
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,760
Speaker 1: was like everybody in the world got a smile when

1128
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,920
Speaker 1: they heard it, and so it brought them back. And

1129
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,880
Speaker 1: it's funny. Uh. A few years ago, when we were

1130
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 1: doing some work at our house, like the workman came

1131
01:09:25,720 --> 01:09:28,680
Speaker 1: came up to me and he said, you wrote with Aerosmith,

1132
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:34,160
Speaker 1: you wrote my favorite song, Do a Naked Lady. It's

1133
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 1: like do a Naked that's what he here. That was

1134
01:09:39,000 --> 01:09:41,720
Speaker 1: his story in his head, you know. So I just

1135
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: got such a kick out of that. But when Stephen

1136
01:09:44,680 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 1: went to write his his autobiography, he spent like two

1137
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,719
Speaker 1: our pages, two or three pages talking about the creation

1138
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:53,920
Speaker 1: of dude looks like a Lady. And he painted me

1139
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: out to be like Juan Valdez. So well, he was Latino.

1140
01:09:57,960 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 1: He had a handlebar mustache like I was wanting. You know,

1141
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,080
Speaker 1: it's like like a worker from the fields. That was

1142
01:10:04,120 --> 01:10:06,519
Speaker 1: like whatever. First of all, I never had like a

1143
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 1: mustache on its own, not even in the seventies when

1144
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:14,719
Speaker 1: it was cool, like you know. And then um, then

1145
01:10:14,920 --> 01:10:17,639
Speaker 1: and then he said, well, you know I already had

1146
01:10:17,640 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 1: the song written, doesn't mention cruising for the ladies? And

1147
01:10:22,040 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: um um. You know, Desmond contribute a few little things

1148
01:10:25,840 --> 01:10:29,439
Speaker 1: to the verses, but you know, and you know, it's like, well,

1149
01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:31,679
Speaker 1: we just let him put his name on the song whatever.

1150
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,280
Speaker 1: And so then Joe co Co writes his book with

1151
01:10:36,360 --> 01:10:40,920
Speaker 1: David Ritz and says, well, Desmond's the one who came

1152
01:10:41,000 --> 01:10:43,360
Speaker 1: up with dude looks like a Lady. We could not

1153
01:10:43,479 --> 01:10:46,479
Speaker 1: have written that song without that title. And it's like,

1154
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:51,920
Speaker 1: wait a second, So I've co written my book with

1155
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: David Ritz and I set the record straight. But I

1156
01:10:54,720 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 1: was working with Joe and he was recording a song

1157
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 1: called Red, White and New in my studio Nashville, and

1158
01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:02,120
Speaker 1: I sat him down and one of my writers had

1159
01:11:02,120 --> 01:11:05,600
Speaker 1: written the song. Levi hummed, and so I sat him down. Okay,

1160
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:08,000
Speaker 1: this is how we wrote the song. And I told

1161
01:11:08,080 --> 01:11:11,960
Speaker 1: him the story and he goes, oh, I like your

1162
01:11:12,000 --> 01:11:15,920
Speaker 1: story better than mine, but you wrote a book about it.

1163
01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna set there. Who are you gonna believe me?

1164
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:24,040
Speaker 1: Are these you know rehab rockers? Man? Okay? Did you

1165
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 1: ever confront Tyler about it? That's who I'm talking about. Tyler. No, no, no, Tyler,

1166
01:11:30,439 --> 01:11:32,759
Speaker 1: like you know, said I like your story better than mine.

1167
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:36,799
Speaker 1: But it's like and to Joe, it's like I didn't

1168
01:11:36,800 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 1: come up with the title, Stephen did. It's like you

1169
01:11:39,200 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: got it all wrong, you guys, you know, but you

1170
01:11:42,080 --> 01:11:44,200
Speaker 1: know it all worked out and I'm going to set

1171
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,760
Speaker 1: the record straight in my book. Okay, So you're right there.

1172
01:11:48,439 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: How long did it take you to write the record?

1173
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,760
Speaker 1: Write the song? We wrote it that day, wrote it

1174
01:11:53,840 --> 01:11:56,920
Speaker 1: that day that day. What did Klodner say, because he

1175
01:11:57,000 --> 01:11:59,960
Speaker 1: was totally hands on. Well, they had to make the

1176
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:02,040
Speaker 1: demo and whatnot, and I wasn't there when they did,

1177
01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:05,240
Speaker 1: so it took a while for him to finally hear

1178
01:12:05,320 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 1: the batch of songs. The next day, I walked in

1179
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:10,600
Speaker 1: and Joe didn't come in. You know, he was like,

1180
01:12:10,640 --> 01:12:14,720
Speaker 1: I don't think he was comfortable, right, So, uh, no

1181
01:12:14,760 --> 01:12:16,439
Speaker 1: one was there, not even the roadies. And I go

1182
01:12:16,479 --> 01:12:18,280
Speaker 1: into that big thing and there was a little keyboard

1183
01:12:18,800 --> 01:12:21,360
Speaker 1: like in front of the stage like butt it up

1184
01:12:21,439 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 1: right to the to the wall of the state and

1185
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:26,040
Speaker 1: the stage was above us and it was like a

1186
01:12:26,080 --> 01:12:29,160
Speaker 1: little Wilitzer and there was like a little bench and

1187
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,760
Speaker 1: then he sat next to me and I, you know,

1188
01:12:31,800 --> 01:12:34,240
Speaker 1: I started in like I do kind of like tell

1189
01:12:34,280 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 1: me about your life. What have you been going through?

1190
01:12:36,680 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: Da da da da da, you know, trying to draw

1191
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,760
Speaker 1: something out, and he said, well, I met this woman Teresa,

1192
01:12:44,000 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 1: and she really, you know, she saved me. I mean,

1193
01:12:47,360 --> 01:12:49,799
Speaker 1: I don't know what I was, just Tyler. This is Tyler.

1194
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:53,360
Speaker 1: What I would be without her? You know, she's she's

1195
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,360
Speaker 1: she's she's an angel, She's my angel. And then when

1196
01:12:57,400 --> 01:13:00,559
Speaker 1: he said the word angel, I saw those bloodubber lips

1197
01:13:02,880 --> 01:13:06,960
Speaker 1: and it was like Mick Jaggers saying angey real. And

1198
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,000
Speaker 1: I said, oh my god, I have to get him

1199
01:13:10,160 --> 01:13:13,439
Speaker 1: to have those blubber lips just like just like Jagger

1200
01:13:13,600 --> 01:13:17,920
Speaker 1: saying angel. And so I talked him into, you know,

1201
01:13:18,320 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 1: writing this song to Teresa, You're my Angel, come and

1202
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: save me tonight. We wrote that song literally that was

1203
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:27,840
Speaker 1: forty five minutes. And then, um, I mean it just

1204
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:32,479
Speaker 1: like flowed just like that everything about it. And um,

1205
01:13:32,640 --> 01:13:34,479
Speaker 1: that song made it on the record and it was

1206
01:13:34,560 --> 01:13:39,400
Speaker 1: like their second single, and um, I don't I didn't

1207
01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:42,879
Speaker 1: get that much played and shows and stuff till recently.

1208
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if they went back to it or not,

1209
01:13:44,880 --> 01:13:46,600
Speaker 1: but I did see a show where they did do it,

1210
01:13:46,640 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: but maybe that's because they knew I was there. But um,

1211
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,240
Speaker 1: you know, it was like way more pop than they

1212
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 1: were comfortable with. And you know, I was really the

1213
01:13:57,439 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: first outside person to co with them, you know. And

1214
01:14:02,320 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 1: and I think I kind of like almost invented a

1215
01:14:05,640 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: career because before, you know, it was like not cool

1216
01:14:10,479 --> 01:14:13,360
Speaker 1: for for bands to write with outside people, but maybe

1217
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,800
Speaker 1: they take a suggestion from a producer who would get

1218
01:14:15,840 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 1: their name on it, but for a professional songwriter to

1219
01:14:19,240 --> 01:14:24,280
Speaker 1: come in like a consultant and um, you know, uh,

1220
01:14:24,400 --> 01:14:27,040
Speaker 1: then do that that was not a career that was happening.

1221
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,759
Speaker 1: And when people saw the success I was happening having

1222
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,280
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people that had tried to

1223
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,840
Speaker 1: be stars or this or that jumped into that, you know,

1224
01:14:37,960 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: and started doing the same thing as me. And then

1225
01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,120
Speaker 1: I'd start to see their names, you know, like Mark

1226
01:14:44,200 --> 01:14:47,640
Speaker 1: Hudson and people like that appear on the same with

1227
01:14:47,760 --> 01:14:50,360
Speaker 1: the same bands that I was working with. Okay, let's

1228
01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. So you're from Miami. Yeah,

1229
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 1: were you born in Miami? I was born in Gainesville, Florida. Okay,

1230
01:14:58,320 --> 01:15:00,960
Speaker 1: your parents. You say you're father was Hungary and he

1231
01:15:01,080 --> 01:15:04,880
Speaker 1: literally came from Hungary. Yes, But my mother was married

1232
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:10,520
Speaker 1: to an American geologist and she went from Cuba two

1233
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:15,479
Speaker 1: Ecuador and then Venezuela and lived in oil camps with

1234
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 1: you know, her husband, who was sixteen years older than her.

1235
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,439
Speaker 1: And she's you know, she looked like an American movie star.

1236
01:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: She was kind of tall, so she didn't really fit

1237
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:30,040
Speaker 1: in with other more Latina girls that were smaller and

1238
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,640
Speaker 1: and all that. She and she was very kind of

1239
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:37,080
Speaker 1: there was something about her that was androgynous, and so

1240
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,080
Speaker 1: even though she was so beautiful, I mean, she would

1241
01:15:40,320 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: she would prefer talking to men. She would sit with

1242
01:15:43,160 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 1: their legs open, you know, like sit like a man

1243
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:49,720
Speaker 1: or something like that. She was like that, and she

1244
01:15:49,960 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: was hanging around Tennessee williams Uh and people like that

1245
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 1: and the this is the late forties, early fifties in Havana.

1246
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:03,120
Speaker 1: And so she she found this American and she thought

1247
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: it was her last chance. She was twenty three and

1248
01:16:05,320 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: everyone said she was going to be a spinster. So

1249
01:16:08,439 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 1: she marries this guy who really, you know, I don't

1250
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:15,400
Speaker 1: think he knew what he was getting into because she

1251
01:16:15,560 --> 01:16:21,760
Speaker 1: was full of energy and laughter. And then um, he

1252
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: had his mother who was like um, Maggie Smith, who

1253
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:30,000
Speaker 1: was an english woman from Manchester, England, and who didn't

1254
01:16:30,040 --> 01:16:32,960
Speaker 1: speak Spanish, and she didn't like my mother at all.

1255
01:16:33,479 --> 01:16:36,720
Speaker 1: So my mother was miserable, miserable, miserable, living in an

1256
01:16:36,720 --> 01:16:40,400
Speaker 1: oil camp in Venezuela. So on Wednesdays she would go

1257
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,360
Speaker 1: on a ferry boat to the main little town, which

1258
01:16:43,400 --> 01:16:45,719
Speaker 1: is like the wild West, but there was a movie

1259
01:16:45,800 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 1: theater and there'd be an American film, so she'd go.

1260
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:52,400
Speaker 1: And so one day she walked in the movie theater

1261
01:16:52,479 --> 01:16:55,559
Speaker 1: was empty, so she went and sat down and she

1262
01:16:55,680 --> 01:17:00,320
Speaker 1: it was National Velvet with Elizabeth Taylor. And then this

1263
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:02,840
Speaker 1: man came in and sat next to her in the

1264
01:17:02,880 --> 01:17:05,640
Speaker 1: empty theater and just started looking at her. And he

1265
01:17:05,680 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 1: was handsome. He looked like Errol Flynn, a movie star,

1266
01:17:09,000 --> 01:17:12,519
Speaker 1: Carrie Grant or something like that. And so they went

1267
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:15,880
Speaker 1: and had coffee and they began. Every Wednesday, she would

1268
01:17:15,920 --> 01:17:18,920
Speaker 1: go in and then they would hook up. And so

1269
01:17:19,000 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 1: in one of those I was conceived. And so when

1270
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:26,000
Speaker 1: she just to be clear, is that your Hungarian father? Okay,

1271
01:17:26,160 --> 01:17:28,320
Speaker 1: what was he doing in Venezuela. He went in with

1272
01:17:28,360 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 1: immigrants that that we're all traveling around, you know, um

1273
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 1: because remember that Russia took over, so even you know,

1274
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:41,960
Speaker 1: so he was hanging around with Jewish um families and

1275
01:17:42,000 --> 01:17:44,880
Speaker 1: he you know, he wasn't Jewish, but he was you know,

1276
01:17:45,040 --> 01:17:51,200
Speaker 1: like comfortable, you know, and they were all building businesses.

1277
01:17:51,800 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: And he started building oil platforms out of cement and

1278
01:17:56,720 --> 01:18:04,360
Speaker 1: that was his business. And so you know, so you know,

1279
01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,760
Speaker 1: in those days, remember if you went to town, you

1280
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:09,200
Speaker 1: were a suit and tie and all of that is

1281
01:18:09,320 --> 01:18:14,519
Speaker 1: this is and I was conceived on her birthday, January

1282
01:18:15,920 --> 01:18:20,519
Speaker 1: I was born exactly nine months later. So one day

1283
01:18:21,520 --> 01:18:24,880
Speaker 1: she stopped coming and he would wait for that ferry boat,

1284
01:18:24,920 --> 01:18:27,960
Speaker 1: and then he'd wait the next Wednesday, and she wasn't coming.

1285
01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:30,559
Speaker 1: She wasn't coming, she wasn't coming, and he started getting

1286
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:33,280
Speaker 1: like really uptight. He was really in love with her.

1287
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:36,200
Speaker 1: So he takes the ferry boat to the other side,

1288
01:18:36,200 --> 01:18:37,840
Speaker 1: goes to the oil camp and they said, oh, no,

1289
01:18:38,120 --> 01:18:41,000
Speaker 1: they moved away. Where did they move We not allowed

1290
01:18:41,040 --> 01:18:45,120
Speaker 1: to give you that information. And so they had moved

1291
01:18:45,120 --> 01:18:47,760
Speaker 1: to Gainesville, Florida, and he got a job as a

1292
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 1: teacher at the Florida University Florida State University or whatever,

1293
01:18:52,760 --> 01:18:55,760
Speaker 1: and they had a dairy ranch. He bought a dairy ranch.

1294
01:18:56,280 --> 01:19:02,519
Speaker 1: This is my mother's husband, John Barrett. And so my father,

1295
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:06,320
Speaker 1: who was desperate, went to Havana and from little clues

1296
01:19:06,720 --> 01:19:10,479
Speaker 1: that she had said in their time together, he tried

1297
01:19:10,520 --> 01:19:13,519
Speaker 1: to track her down. So he went to the Hotel

1298
01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:18,240
Speaker 1: Nacional and he looked across the barney, thought he sorry,

1299
01:19:18,760 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: ran up to her and um, it was her sister,

1300
01:19:22,880 --> 01:19:26,800
Speaker 1: because they were all very similar looking. And uh, she

1301
01:19:26,960 --> 01:19:31,160
Speaker 1: was at that time the mistress of the dictator Bautista,

1302
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:33,719
Speaker 1: this is babe, and she was like the eight girl

1303
01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:38,000
Speaker 1: of Havana and um. So he gave her a letter

1304
01:19:38,160 --> 01:19:40,720
Speaker 1: on the stationary and she put it inside her own

1305
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,720
Speaker 1: letter and sent it to Hathorne. And they went back

1306
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:45,920
Speaker 1: and forth like that, first to Cuba, then to him,

1307
01:19:45,960 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: and you know, like that and uh. Then finally they

1308
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: agreed to meet in Miami Beach in a little hotel

1309
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:57,000
Speaker 1: off of seventy one Street that ultimately was where kunan

1310
01:19:57,120 --> 01:20:00,360
Speaker 1: and was hiding, right was before he did the rassade thing.

1311
01:20:01,160 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: And that they were together six days and that was

1312
01:20:05,080 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: the only time we were ever a family. Really. Yeah,

1313
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,280
Speaker 1: in those six days, he'd already been born. I was

1314
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: six months old, So I mean that whole process I got.

1315
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: So then he felt like he had convinced her that

1316
01:20:21,000 --> 01:20:23,960
Speaker 1: she would leave her husband because I had his child.

1317
01:20:24,920 --> 01:20:27,960
Speaker 1: And so she said, she said, okay, I'll do We'll

1318
01:20:28,000 --> 01:20:29,960
Speaker 1: do that. She said, come in thirty days to pick

1319
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,519
Speaker 1: me up in the farm and and that will give

1320
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,360
Speaker 1: me a chance to you know, deal with him and

1321
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:37,639
Speaker 1: pack all my things and all this kind of stuff.

1322
01:20:38,520 --> 01:20:41,960
Speaker 1: So he went there and in a car that he

1323
01:20:42,280 --> 01:20:45,920
Speaker 1: rent a car, and then his brother was driving a

1324
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:50,120
Speaker 1: U haul and they show up and she was like

1325
01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:53,519
Speaker 1: she still hadn't told her husband. She couldn't deal with it.

1326
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: She was like a wreck because she was afraid of

1327
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:03,960
Speaker 1: what her family would think of her. And so he

1328
01:21:04,080 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: was there talking to her, and we had and the

1329
01:21:06,120 --> 01:21:09,320
Speaker 1: brother was taking pictures really cinematic and I'm like playing

1330
01:21:09,320 --> 01:21:12,760
Speaker 1: on the floor. And then the husband comes home and

1331
01:21:12,760 --> 01:21:16,400
Speaker 1: he's like, who are these men? And so she was

1332
01:21:16,479 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: like and tear She went into the house and she

1333
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,720
Speaker 1: locked herself in the bathroom. And then um, you know,

1334
01:21:23,400 --> 01:21:27,680
Speaker 1: my biological father, Joe Marphy and Mr Barrett went for

1335
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:32,120
Speaker 1: a long walk, and according to my father, he was like,

1336
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:34,719
Speaker 1: because they had already been having a lot of trouble

1337
01:21:34,800 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 1: and everything, he said, okay, you know, take her, take

1338
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: the kid, just get out of here. But you know,

1339
01:21:40,920 --> 01:21:46,200
Speaker 1: my mother told a different story that she said, you

1340
01:21:46,240 --> 01:21:47,880
Speaker 1: can take her, but you have to leave the kid,

1341
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:51,200
Speaker 1: which is an impossible thing, like he would never have said.

1342
01:21:52,439 --> 01:21:57,800
Speaker 1: So she refused to go, and so then they and

1343
01:21:57,840 --> 01:22:03,760
Speaker 1: then Mr Barrett told Uh Marphy, Joe Marphy that never

1344
01:22:03,840 --> 01:22:06,320
Speaker 1: to try to contact them again, to just leave and

1345
01:22:06,400 --> 01:22:12,800
Speaker 1: never never come back. So then he went back to Venezuela, heartbroken,

1346
01:22:12,920 --> 01:22:19,679
Speaker 1: and he married um Um Holocaust survivor, and they began

1347
01:22:19,720 --> 01:22:23,400
Speaker 1: their family and all of that, and then, uh, you know,

1348
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:26,479
Speaker 1: eventually it didn't work out of course with Mr Barrett,

1349
01:22:26,520 --> 01:22:32,040
Speaker 1: so she moved to Miami and then she recontacted him,

1350
01:22:32,080 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: but he had already married. So it's like their their

1351
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: ships didn't cross. But when I when I didn't find

1352
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 1: out about this story until I had turned eighteen. Really yeah,

1353
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,360
Speaker 1: so I thought the other guy was my father. So

1354
01:22:48,400 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 1: then when I was eighteen, my biological father insisted to

1355
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:56,400
Speaker 1: tell me. So I was already living in Woodstock, I

1356
01:22:56,400 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 1: had dropped out of school, and I was, you know,

1357
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:04,240
Speaker 1: working at Bearsville as the coffee boy and um making

1358
01:23:04,280 --> 01:23:09,320
Speaker 1: my first demo with Van Morrison's band and with Virgil

1359
01:23:09,479 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 1: night Child was going to ride High and we went

1360
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,200
Speaker 1: to see seymour Stein and he was the first executive.

1361
01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:18,320
Speaker 1: We we went down to New York and he just

1362
01:23:18,360 --> 01:23:23,360
Speaker 1: started Siren and so, uh, he said, meet me in

1363
01:23:23,400 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: New York. So I met him and it was like

1364
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 1: a Luke Skywalker moment. Says he said, do you know

1365
01:23:29,880 --> 01:23:32,680
Speaker 1: you know why I've always kind of come around and

1366
01:23:32,720 --> 01:23:35,559
Speaker 1: all that? And then then he says, because I am

1367
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:38,840
Speaker 1: your father. You know, it was like it was like

1368
01:23:38,880 --> 01:23:43,639
Speaker 1: a bucket of ice cold water, and then everything made sense.

1369
01:23:44,120 --> 01:23:46,880
Speaker 1: And so from that moment on, he gave me money

1370
01:23:46,920 --> 01:23:49,160
Speaker 1: to be able to drive back to Miami because we

1371
01:23:49,160 --> 01:23:54,080
Speaker 1: were flat broke and um. Then he put me through college.

1372
01:23:54,120 --> 01:23:56,240
Speaker 1: I went to community college and I graduated from n

1373
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:00,560
Speaker 1: y U. Really, yeah, okay, you're in school. Let's go

1374
01:24:00,600 --> 01:24:03,880
Speaker 1: back to green school. Your mother ever find another guy? Oh?

1375
01:24:04,000 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: She had many other men, okay, but none she married.

1376
01:24:07,720 --> 01:24:11,640
Speaker 1: She married some how did you feel about that? It

1377
01:24:11,760 --> 01:24:16,000
Speaker 1: was a terrible time. Remember we lived in the projects

1378
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:20,040
Speaker 1: of Liberty City, and she was, you know, working, and

1379
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:22,639
Speaker 1: she couldn't hold a job more than three weeks. And

1380
01:24:23,080 --> 01:24:25,080
Speaker 1: she worked at Burger King and she'd come home at

1381
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,840
Speaker 1: night with these like whoppers that nobody ate. So we

1382
01:24:28,880 --> 01:24:32,000
Speaker 1: would take the tops and then throw away the bottoms

1383
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,800
Speaker 1: and make one that was because it was they were

1384
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:37,679
Speaker 1: like mushy, and that's how we that's when we'd eat,

1385
01:24:37,720 --> 01:24:41,040
Speaker 1: and you know, eleven'clock at night, and or it was

1386
01:24:41,120 --> 01:24:43,920
Speaker 1: cereal and milk and stuff like that. It was really

1387
01:24:44,320 --> 01:24:49,040
Speaker 1: poor and very dangerous place. But the beauty of all

1388
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,519
Speaker 1: these things is that I was playing on the swing sets,

1389
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:56,760
Speaker 1: you know, with you know, children of all races, and

1390
01:24:56,760 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: there was always the R and B station that was playing,

1391
01:25:00,400 --> 01:25:03,759
Speaker 1: and so I was listening to Aretha Franklin whistling pickt

1392
01:25:03,760 --> 01:25:07,599
Speaker 1: and all of these records that were different than what

1393
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,919
Speaker 1: would would hear on TV or all of that. So

1394
01:25:10,920 --> 01:25:13,559
Speaker 1: soul and all of that, it really got into into

1395
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:16,479
Speaker 1: my bones. Okay, you go to elementary school, you go

1396
01:25:16,520 --> 01:25:19,360
Speaker 1: to high school, you fit in you and outsider, what

1397
01:25:19,439 --> 01:25:26,040
Speaker 1: kind of I'm like. I went to my um, I

1398
01:25:26,080 --> 01:25:28,800
Speaker 1: was poor and all that, but I started growing. I

1399
01:25:28,840 --> 01:25:34,120
Speaker 1: started tending towards like the hippie and the spiritual cults

1400
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:38,000
Speaker 1: and gurus and health food and you know all of

1401
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:43,120
Speaker 1: that yoga and Rosa Christian Crucian and Sachia Nanda and

1402
01:25:43,400 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 1: I went through all of these things. And I would

1403
01:25:46,040 --> 01:25:48,280
Speaker 1: wear all white and then I would have like long

1404
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,360
Speaker 1: hair and beads and sandals and stuff. And I went

1405
01:25:51,800 --> 01:25:55,360
Speaker 1: to my high school reunion my fort and people came

1406
01:25:55,439 --> 01:25:57,200
Speaker 1: up to me and well, first of all, no one

1407
01:25:57,240 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: invited me to any parties, nothing. And I started hanging

1408
01:26:00,880 --> 01:26:05,160
Speaker 1: around with the weirdos, the people that would eventually finally

1409
01:26:05,200 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: realized they were gay or artists are just like offbeat, right,

1410
01:26:09,840 --> 01:26:13,719
Speaker 1: and so, um, that's where I met Virgil, and so

1411
01:26:14,320 --> 01:26:17,920
Speaker 1: I moved to a hippie house in Coconut Grove called

1412
01:26:17,920 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: the Maya Family, and um, all of these things, and uh,

1413
01:26:24,320 --> 01:26:28,719
Speaker 1: I was never part of the rich kids, and so

1414
01:26:29,240 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 1: I didn't fit into their world. Their clothes all came

1415
01:26:32,439 --> 01:26:35,879
Speaker 1: from New York. They were driving their parents last year Cadillac.

1416
01:26:36,439 --> 01:26:39,120
Speaker 1: I mean it was, you know. And so I went

1417
01:26:39,160 --> 01:26:42,599
Speaker 1: to my high school reunion and they said, oh, you know, Desmond,

1418
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:46,720
Speaker 1: you were always a superstar. You know, you were so

1419
01:26:46,920 --> 01:26:51,960
Speaker 1: mysterious with you were so handsome and and so cool,

1420
01:26:52,479 --> 01:26:55,679
Speaker 1: and you were like you were like an angel walking

1421
01:26:55,720 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 1: down the halls and all this kind of stuff. And

1422
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:05,200
Speaker 1: inside I just felt so like a nothing, you know, Latino,

1423
01:27:05,200 --> 01:27:10,280
Speaker 1: poor gay. You know, I just didn't know what until

1424
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:14,880
Speaker 1: I met Virgil. And then she like gave me a

1425
01:27:14,920 --> 01:27:17,840
Speaker 1: feeling like I belonged to something. We started reading cool

1426
01:27:17,880 --> 01:27:21,400
Speaker 1: books together and and all of that. And then then

1427
01:27:21,240 --> 01:27:25,559
Speaker 1: then when Desmond Child was born, then Desmond Child could

1428
01:27:25,600 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 1: be anything I wanted it to be. I was no

1429
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:32,640
Speaker 1: longer Johnny Barrett, you know, that was a nothing. I

1430
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,439
Speaker 1: was now Desmond Child and I loved the name because

1431
01:27:35,479 --> 01:27:38,120
Speaker 1: it reminded me of Elton John. It had that ring

1432
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: to it. And so I've been able to become maybe

1433
01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:48,040
Speaker 1: the arc type of whatever that is. You know. Okay,

1434
01:27:48,080 --> 01:27:51,160
Speaker 1: so when do you start playing music? So we we

1435
01:27:51,200 --> 01:27:53,880
Speaker 1: started playing little cafes, No no, no where did you

1436
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,360
Speaker 1: learn how to play? Take? And I always played piano

1437
01:27:56,400 --> 01:27:58,880
Speaker 1: because my mom was was playing piano. That what was

1438
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,200
Speaker 1: always a piano in my else? Okay, do you take

1439
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:03,599
Speaker 1: lessons or just figured out by yourself? Figured out by myself?

1440
01:28:03,640 --> 01:28:07,240
Speaker 1: Can read music now? No, even though I graduated from

1441
01:28:07,320 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: n YU the music department, I can. I can know

1442
01:28:12,920 --> 01:28:15,479
Speaker 1: you went down y good experience, bad experience. It was

1443
01:28:15,520 --> 01:28:21,280
Speaker 1: a wonderful experience because I had like the most amazing teachers.

1444
01:28:21,720 --> 01:28:24,880
Speaker 1: There was a voice teacher, John Kune. He lived to

1445
01:28:24,920 --> 01:28:30,960
Speaker 1: be two and uh, he believed in me and he

1446
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:34,760
Speaker 1: really helped me to develop my voice. And then there

1447
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: was Adina Scoville and she had invented the keyboard numerical

1448
01:28:41,160 --> 01:28:43,800
Speaker 1: system where you put your hands on its one, three,

1449
01:28:43,920 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: five and then you can play in any key and

1450
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:51,719
Speaker 1: that's what Nashville adopted. She invented that in the nineteen thirties.

1451
01:28:52,040 --> 01:28:56,240
Speaker 1: And she had written a book called Keyboard Technique Modena Scoville,

1452
01:28:56,439 --> 01:28:59,799
Speaker 1: and she was already super old, and she was teaching

1453
01:28:59,840 --> 01:29:02,960
Speaker 1: at n y U. And she you know, when I

1454
01:29:03,080 --> 01:29:05,679
Speaker 1: once I figured out how I can put my hands

1455
01:29:05,720 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: down and modulate, it made a huge difference because I

1456
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,280
Speaker 1: could almost play anything, even though I mean I can't

1457
01:29:13,280 --> 01:29:16,640
Speaker 1: play fast songs and stuff, but I could pluck out chords.

1458
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:20,400
Speaker 1: And I knew to do a seconds and force and

1459
01:29:20,600 --> 01:29:25,080
Speaker 1: understand all of this. And then I had a UM,

1460
01:29:25,120 --> 01:29:31,240
Speaker 1: a music theory teacher that was Holocaust survivor, and she

1461
01:29:31,800 --> 01:29:39,000
Speaker 1: ilsa bunch and she believed in me. So made such

1462
01:29:39,040 --> 01:29:44,120
Speaker 1: a difference, you know, And and um to have people that,

1463
01:29:44,240 --> 01:29:47,160
Speaker 1: and so I wasn't want to do homework and all that,

1464
01:29:47,240 --> 01:29:49,680
Speaker 1: so I always sit in the front row. So I

1465
01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 1: just listened really carefully, and then I did well in

1466
01:29:52,040 --> 01:29:54,599
Speaker 1: my tests. I was a big believer when I went

1467
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:57,040
Speaker 1: to college, irrelevant of what you did, you gotta go

1468
01:29:57,080 --> 01:29:59,320
Speaker 1: to class every day otherwise feel like you're not even there.

1469
01:29:59,640 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 1: And so I was good at that. And I was

1470
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,200
Speaker 1: driving a cab, I was living with Maria in the

1471
01:30:05,240 --> 01:30:08,880
Speaker 1: little apartment. I worked at a sporting goods store. I

1472
01:30:09,080 --> 01:30:14,720
Speaker 1: did Xerox machine and she was working waitress, and you know,

1473
01:30:15,040 --> 01:30:18,120
Speaker 1: those were like magical, wonderful days and hanging around Reno

1474
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:21,360
Speaker 1: Sweeney because that's where we wanted to play. And eventually

1475
01:30:21,520 --> 01:30:25,760
Speaker 1: we opened, you know for four you know, bigger stars there,

1476
01:30:25,840 --> 01:30:30,439
Speaker 1: and that's that's how we became, you know something. And

1477
01:30:30,479 --> 01:30:35,080
Speaker 1: so we got signed out of there, uh two Capitol Records.

1478
01:30:35,240 --> 01:30:41,599
Speaker 1: So who signed you? Richard Landis and you know, and

1479
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: we were obsessed with Laura Nero. So he put us

1480
01:30:44,520 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 1: with Charlie Collelo, who was the arranger of Eli and

1481
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 1: the Thirteen Confessions. And then I hired Laura Nero's um

1482
01:30:54,360 --> 01:30:57,880
Speaker 1: father to tune my piano so I could just pick

1483
01:30:57,960 --> 01:31:01,600
Speaker 1: his brain about Laura and and he was you know,

1484
01:31:01,640 --> 01:31:03,439
Speaker 1: we'd be there three hours and need to tell his

1485
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:10,720
Speaker 1: stories and stories and so you know, eventually, you know,

1486
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:13,720
Speaker 1: I got to know her a few years before she

1487
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:16,960
Speaker 1: passed away. Okay, she was living in Danbury then, and

1488
01:31:17,360 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 1: I went to Danbury and she made me dinner. Okay, wait, wait,

1489
01:31:20,640 --> 01:31:26,760
Speaker 1: but how did you make the connection? She played in

1490
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:32,000
Speaker 1: Santa Monica at a little jazz club on Santa Monica

1491
01:31:32,040 --> 01:31:35,960
Speaker 1: Boulevard or something like that. In my place somebody's name.

1492
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,400
Speaker 1: I think, whatever, keep going. Yeah, And so I sent

1493
01:31:39,520 --> 01:31:42,519
Speaker 1: back my my my business card and with a little

1494
01:31:42,560 --> 01:31:45,280
Speaker 1: note says I wanted to meet you my whole life.

1495
01:31:46,080 --> 01:31:47,960
Speaker 1: And so by the time I got home, there was

1496
01:31:48,000 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 1: a message on my voicemail. Hi, It's Laura, and it

1497
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:56,800
Speaker 1: was like she gave me her phone number, and then

1498
01:31:56,880 --> 01:32:00,160
Speaker 1: she came over for dinner. Wow. Well was that like

1499
01:32:00,840 --> 01:32:04,000
Speaker 1: it was like magical. So then it was lucky because

1500
01:32:04,080 --> 01:32:08,320
Speaker 1: Maria was already with Rick, and uh, Diana was there

1501
01:32:08,600 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: and I think Miriam was in town. And we had

1502
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:16,280
Speaker 1: this this dinner you know, with Laura and Desmond Child

1503
01:32:16,320 --> 01:32:18,840
Speaker 1: and Rouge. And then we went to my piano and

1504
01:32:18,920 --> 01:32:21,439
Speaker 1: Laura sat at the piano and we started singing through

1505
01:32:21,479 --> 01:32:24,720
Speaker 1: all the songs of Gonna Take a Miracle. Wow, it

1506
01:32:24,840 --> 01:32:27,439
Speaker 1: was like a fans wild exactly. I got it. I

1507
01:32:27,479 --> 01:32:35,160
Speaker 1: got it. I got it. And then and then she

1508
01:32:35,240 --> 01:32:38,320
Speaker 1: invited me, you know, because she invited me to her

1509
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:41,760
Speaker 1: house for dinner. So I went and I imagined, like

1510
01:32:42,160 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 1: this grant remember when I was living with Maria, had

1511
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:49,160
Speaker 1: this little tiny willeitz Er piano, and I kept singing, God,

1512
01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: you know, Laura Nero write so many songs much better

1513
01:32:51,960 --> 01:32:56,759
Speaker 1: than mine. And she's probably on gorgeous piano overlooking riverside drive,

1514
01:32:57,160 --> 01:32:59,599
Speaker 1: you know, all this kind of stuff. So I go

1515
01:32:59,800 --> 01:33:02,760
Speaker 1: and rent a car, and I go to dan Berry

1516
01:33:02,840 --> 01:33:06,720
Speaker 1: and I go on this thing and you know, she

1517
01:33:06,880 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 1: lived in a prefab little gray thing that was like

1518
01:33:11,760 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: a little trailer. It was literally a trailer. It was

1519
01:33:15,560 --> 01:33:17,839
Speaker 1: like a pre fab It was like as wide as

1520
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,680
Speaker 1: you know, you could drive down a road right. And

1521
01:33:20,720 --> 01:33:23,760
Speaker 1: then she had a little part that stuck out and

1522
01:33:23,800 --> 01:33:25,880
Speaker 1: there was a fouton on the floor and that's where

1523
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: she slept, and her son slept like in a little

1524
01:33:28,960 --> 01:33:33,320
Speaker 1: loft over the closet. And um, she because she couldn't

1525
01:33:33,320 --> 01:33:35,280
Speaker 1: afford to live in the main house that she owned,

1526
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 1: so she had that rented. And she made me and

1527
01:33:42,160 --> 01:33:45,120
Speaker 1: I thought, oh this she's Italian and Joe, She's gonna

1528
01:33:45,120 --> 01:33:48,879
Speaker 1: make the most delicious good. It was just like regular

1529
01:33:48,880 --> 01:33:53,759
Speaker 1: pasta with ragu, tomato, sauce, iceberg lettuce and french is dressed.

1530
01:33:55,200 --> 01:33:58,439
Speaker 1: And I brought a bag full of like hogandas which

1531
01:33:58,680 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: was you know, she loved that. So we had all

1532
01:34:01,360 --> 01:34:03,519
Speaker 1: the four that I had brought in with spoons and

1533
01:34:03,560 --> 01:34:06,839
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff, and she had a picture

1534
01:34:06,840 --> 01:34:10,320
Speaker 1: window and underneath the picture window was a little will

1535
01:34:10,400 --> 01:34:15,640
Speaker 1: itz Er Spinett like the one I was writing exactly,

1536
01:34:16,400 --> 01:34:19,320
Speaker 1: you know, with the little thing, and that's where she

1537
01:34:19,439 --> 01:34:24,519
Speaker 1: was writing. And it was like, wow, isn't that ironic? Okay,

1538
01:34:24,640 --> 01:34:27,599
Speaker 1: it's also ironic that she was straight and then she

1539
01:34:27,680 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: went gay she came out. Yeah, I mean I think

1540
01:34:33,320 --> 01:34:39,120
Speaker 1: she was. She wasn't like I think she was whatever,

1541
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:44,000
Speaker 1: bisexual or whatever she was whatever. Just an interesting parallel there.

1542
01:34:44,400 --> 01:34:47,280
Speaker 1: Why do you why do you think? Oh? Well, when

1543
01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:50,400
Speaker 1: we were listening to her music, Elien the third thing confessions,

1544
01:34:51,120 --> 01:34:54,000
Speaker 1: I have an interesting story because the person who played

1545
01:34:54,040 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 1: me that to begin with was Lisa Wexler, Jerry Wexler's daughter.

1546
01:34:58,080 --> 01:35:01,679
Speaker 1: And did you know Jerry, Yes, because he was the dad.

1547
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:04,479
Speaker 1: This is when I was Yeah, but did you know

1548
01:35:04,520 --> 01:35:09,160
Speaker 1: who he was? Kind of? And I would? They were

1549
01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:11,880
Speaker 1: snowbirds and they had rented a house or maybe he

1550
01:35:11,960 --> 01:35:16,240
Speaker 1: had actually bought on Alice in Island, and so I would.

1551
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,600
Speaker 1: I would I met her because I was me and

1552
01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:21,439
Speaker 1: my cousin, my cousin Iggy. We would go and fish

1553
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: coins out of the fountain blue fountains and the Eden

1554
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:26,519
Speaker 1: Rock and the dul and we were putting twenty bucks

1555
01:35:26,520 --> 01:35:30,479
Speaker 1: in our pocket every time we went went there. So

1556
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:34,200
Speaker 1: I met Lisa and she was like the snowbird, very masculine,

1557
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:37,479
Speaker 1: and you know I always drawn to this and raging people.

1558
01:35:37,520 --> 01:35:39,040
Speaker 1: And so she said, oh, come over to my house

1559
01:35:39,080 --> 01:35:41,519
Speaker 1: for dinner, and so I started going over there and

1560
01:35:41,680 --> 01:35:45,120
Speaker 1: the dinner uh, you know, because Jerry loved this kind

1561
01:35:45,120 --> 01:35:55,599
Speaker 1: of more like being home for dinner. And you know, Sureley, Anita, Paul, Lisa, Me, Jerry,

1562
01:35:56,160 --> 01:36:00,040
Speaker 1: Tom Dowd, a Reef Martin m at her again in

1563
01:36:01,080 --> 01:36:06,519
Speaker 1: and they would be talking about the Vietnam War, the

1564
01:36:06,600 --> 01:36:10,639
Speaker 1: politics and how they were scheming, you know, to take

1565
01:36:10,680 --> 01:36:14,240
Speaker 1: over the music business and all these things. And I

1566
01:36:14,280 --> 01:36:15,840
Speaker 1: just wanted to stay at the table. And she would

1567
01:36:15,840 --> 01:36:18,000
Speaker 1: be like pulling on my shirt, like let's go to

1568
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:21,519
Speaker 1: my room, smoke a joint, you know whatever. And so

1569
01:36:22,120 --> 01:36:24,240
Speaker 1: she pulled me over there and then she pulled out this,

1570
01:36:24,439 --> 01:36:30,639
Speaker 1: uh this record actually it was Lauren NEOs Um more

1571
01:36:30,680 --> 01:36:34,200
Speaker 1: than a New Discovery, the first album she played for me.

1572
01:36:34,240 --> 01:36:36,920
Speaker 1: In the minute I heard her voice, it was like

1573
01:36:37,280 --> 01:36:40,320
Speaker 1: touched me. It's like, okay, that's what I want to do.

1574
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:45,080
Speaker 1: That that touched me in a way that nothing ever did.

1575
01:36:45,760 --> 01:36:49,439
Speaker 1: Her voice was like this wailing sound, and then her

1576
01:36:49,479 --> 01:36:52,799
Speaker 1: picture and everything is she was like a Madonna or something.

1577
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:56,120
Speaker 1: You see her perform live, I have, Yeah, I did

1578
01:36:56,120 --> 01:36:58,799
Speaker 1: at the University of Miami and then she was also

1579
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:01,920
Speaker 1: at the Gulf Stream. Yeah, I saw her three times.

1580
01:37:02,160 --> 01:37:05,040
Speaker 1: Why do you think that after her initial period she

1581
01:37:05,120 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 1: never had more success? Well, well, first of all, she

1582
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:21,120
Speaker 1: was never trying to write commercially, and it was David Geffen,

1583
01:37:21,280 --> 01:37:25,800
Speaker 1: her agent and manager, who was placing the songs in

1584
01:37:25,840 --> 01:37:30,880
Speaker 1: these amazing ways Three Dog Night and The Fifth Dimension

1585
01:37:31,120 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 1: and you know, Barbara Streisan and like so many things,

1586
01:37:34,840 --> 01:37:39,680
Speaker 1: and she became like, you know, the eight Girl of songwriting.

1587
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:46,760
Speaker 1: But she was a very shy person. And um, you know,

1588
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:53,080
Speaker 1: I think that David according to what she told me,

1589
01:37:53,120 --> 01:37:57,560
Speaker 1: and also Clive Davis. You know, she was at Columbia

1590
01:37:58,280 --> 01:38:04,640
Speaker 1: and David created Asylum Records essentially for her. But you know,

1591
01:38:04,760 --> 01:38:07,840
Speaker 1: she didn't I want to leave Clive because it was

1592
01:38:07,920 --> 01:38:12,080
Speaker 1: like a family to her. So she just wouldn't go.

1593
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,439
Speaker 1: And so I think David was very hurt by that.

1594
01:38:16,439 --> 01:38:18,800
Speaker 1: And of course what he did was he found Joni

1595
01:38:18,880 --> 01:38:23,120
Speaker 1: Mitchell and made her like the biggest female songwriter of

1596
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:27,840
Speaker 1: all time. So and so, then I once had lunch

1597
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:31,280
Speaker 1: with Clive Davis and and I said, well, what's your

1598
01:38:31,400 --> 01:38:33,599
Speaker 1: I asked him, you know, interviewing him kind of like,

1599
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:37,840
Speaker 1: what's your biggest regret in your career? He said that

1600
01:38:37,960 --> 01:38:42,880
Speaker 1: I didn't become David Geffen's partner and go with him

1601
01:38:42,960 --> 01:38:46,120
Speaker 1: when he asked me to go, because I was putting

1602
01:38:46,120 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 1: out three FT records a year. I couldn't understand his

1603
01:38:49,080 --> 01:38:53,240
Speaker 1: business model, like twelve albums a year, and so it

1604
01:38:53,400 --> 01:38:56,760
Speaker 1: just he'said, I just didn't get it, you know I

1605
01:38:57,360 --> 01:39:01,040
Speaker 1: And so he says, that's my biggest rea rhet and

1606
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:03,759
Speaker 1: I just thought, well, like wow, And then I started

1607
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:07,240
Speaker 1: to think about it, and I thought like maybe David

1608
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 1: was still trying to say, if I could get Clive

1609
01:39:10,040 --> 01:39:13,680
Speaker 1: to come, then Laura will come. I got you, So

1610
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, I hope you know I'm not speaking out

1611
01:39:16,880 --> 01:39:21,080
Speaker 1: of turn, but that was the math that I did. Okay,

1612
01:39:21,160 --> 01:39:32,360
Speaker 1: what's your favorite Laura Neuros song, Eli's Coming Emily Okay, um,

1613
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:36,080
Speaker 1: beads of Sweat, Um Christmas and my Soul. I have

1614
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:40,479
Speaker 1: to say that that's that's the one. And when when

1615
01:39:40,520 --> 01:39:43,120
Speaker 1: she died Desmond Child and Ruth sang that at the

1616
01:39:43,160 --> 01:39:47,040
Speaker 1: Beacon Theater, you know, and in her tribute and um,

1617
01:39:47,760 --> 01:39:51,880
Speaker 1: you know that song is just so great. Mine is

1618
01:39:51,920 --> 01:39:57,439
Speaker 1: Captain for Dark Mornings. That okay. So so today, Desmond,

1619
01:39:57,479 --> 01:40:03,840
Speaker 1: what are you up to today? Well? Um, last year

1620
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:07,840
Speaker 1: I decided I was going to perform again because I

1621
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:10,880
Speaker 1: want to, because I just had to. And so I

1622
01:40:10,920 --> 01:40:13,479
Speaker 1: got all my friends together and went back to New

1623
01:40:13,560 --> 01:40:16,160
Speaker 1: York and found a club that kind of remind me

1624
01:40:16,200 --> 01:40:22,639
Speaker 1: of Reno Sweeney and it's called Finstein's Einstein's, as I say,

1625
01:40:22,680 --> 01:40:25,439
Speaker 1: I know, Michael Finstein did a podcast with him, um

1626
01:40:25,560 --> 01:40:29,280
Speaker 1: and um it was underneath fifty four below and I

1627
01:40:29,280 --> 01:40:31,200
Speaker 1: think it used to be like the orgy room or

1628
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:35,000
Speaker 1: something where the drugs were all taken, you know, with

1629
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:39,080
Speaker 1: Houstin and Liza or whatever. In those days. I was

1630
01:40:39,160 --> 01:40:42,240
Speaker 1: never able to get past the red red rope, not

1631
01:40:42,400 --> 01:40:49,840
Speaker 1: that I really tried that hard. Um. And so we

1632
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 1: I recorded those three nights and um then compiled it

1633
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:57,760
Speaker 1: together to be this live album desm Child Live that

1634
01:40:58,040 --> 01:41:02,480
Speaker 1: I've you know, put out on b MG, and um,

1635
01:41:02,520 --> 01:41:05,559
Speaker 1: you know, I'm just you know, it feels it feels

1636
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:07,439
Speaker 1: so good. I mean not all the songs that I

1637
01:41:07,479 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: ever we're hits were on it, but I sing a

1638
01:41:09,800 --> 01:41:12,720
Speaker 1: lot of the songs that became popular that I collaborated

1639
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:18,080
Speaker 1: with with Aerosmith, bon Jovi and all that, and um,

1640
01:41:18,120 --> 01:41:21,599
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's kind of it's kind of homespun.

1641
01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:25,480
Speaker 1: It's not slick. It's like it's just a live cabaret room.

1642
01:41:25,560 --> 01:41:29,760
Speaker 1: But I'm very happy with it. And um, I mean

1643
01:41:29,800 --> 01:41:32,200
Speaker 1: I opened the show with Laura Nero song The Man

1644
01:41:32,240 --> 01:41:35,240
Speaker 1: Who Sends Me Home, which I dedicated to my husband.

1645
01:41:35,800 --> 01:41:37,600
Speaker 1: Of course that didn't make it on the record, but

1646
01:41:37,680 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 1: at I have it in the cans whatever and so um.

1647
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:48,280
Speaker 1: And then I've been writing my autobiography with David Ritz

1648
01:41:48,560 --> 01:41:50,840
Speaker 1: and it's called Living on a Prayer, Big Songs, Big

1649
01:41:50,840 --> 01:41:56,440
Speaker 1: Life with David Ritz, and it's it's still I think Thursday,

1650
01:41:56,439 --> 01:42:00,720
Speaker 1: we're gonna make one last sweep through it and get

1651
01:42:00,760 --> 01:42:03,080
Speaker 1: it up up to date. And you know, I haven't

1652
01:42:03,120 --> 01:42:05,920
Speaker 1: been able to find a publishing deal yet, and I

1653
01:42:05,960 --> 01:42:08,960
Speaker 1: was thinking just printing it myself and publishing it just

1654
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:13,320
Speaker 1: like Amazon or something. That's a whole separate conversation. I

1655
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:16,680
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Um. I had some you

1656
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:18,280
Speaker 1: should talk to If you want to do it yourself,

1657
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:22,479
Speaker 1: Jason Flam did a children's book which he heavily promoted itself.

1658
01:42:22,520 --> 01:42:27,280
Speaker 1: If you want to go that route, get ahold of Jason. Yeah, yeah,

1659
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:31,760
Speaker 1: Lulul Dog because we have a bulldog looks almost like

1660
01:42:31,840 --> 01:42:39,600
Speaker 1: Lulu's sister. Uh so, um, so I've been working on that. Um.

1661
01:42:39,640 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 1: I've been working on a Broadway musical called Cuba Libre,

1662
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:45,240
Speaker 1: and it's the true story of my mother's two very

1663
01:42:45,280 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 1: beautiful younger sisters, Baba who I spoke about, who is

1664
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:53,440
Speaker 1: Bautista's mistress, and the youngest one, who was the revolutionary

1665
01:42:53,439 --> 01:42:56,880
Speaker 1: in the family and she became Castro's lover after the revolution.

1666
01:42:58,000 --> 01:43:01,759
Speaker 1: So we have two sisters to dig taters one island.

1667
01:43:02,920 --> 01:43:05,879
Speaker 1: And so I've been working on it with David Sigerson

1668
01:43:06,800 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 1: for since we started looking back, since two thousand four.

1669
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:15,519
Speaker 1: Are we coming to Uh yes, I mean We've worked

1670
01:43:15,520 --> 01:43:20,080
Speaker 1: for many years, um developing it with you know, producers,

1671
01:43:20,280 --> 01:43:23,400
Speaker 1: Broadway producers, but then they got busy with other shows

1672
01:43:23,439 --> 01:43:25,960
Speaker 1: and this and that, and finally I think, you know,

1673
01:43:26,600 --> 01:43:32,280
Speaker 1: we have a new resurgence that's coming and hopefully we'll

1674
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:36,200
Speaker 1: be able to start putting it up on the on

1675
01:43:36,280 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 1: its feet. But you know, I put everything I've got

1676
01:43:40,080 --> 01:43:45,479
Speaker 1: into that. And also have another collaborator, Andreas Carlson, who

1677
01:43:45,520 --> 01:43:47,559
Speaker 1: co wrote a lot of the songs for the Backstreet

1678
01:43:47,600 --> 01:43:50,760
Speaker 1: Boys in and Sink back in the day. And I

1679
01:43:50,840 --> 01:43:55,320
Speaker 1: met him and when he came to see me, because

1680
01:43:55,360 --> 01:43:59,400
Speaker 1: he was on a kind of pilgrimage to meet everybody

1681
01:43:59,479 --> 01:44:01,800
Speaker 1: or anybody that he ever saw their name on a

1682
01:44:01,920 --> 01:44:07,120
Speaker 1: kiss cover. So I was it. So we sat and

1683
01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:10,240
Speaker 1: we we just bonded, and he started telling me about

1684
01:44:10,280 --> 01:44:13,639
Speaker 1: oh Town, and he started telling me about lou Perlman

1685
01:44:14,280 --> 01:44:16,360
Speaker 1: and what he was doing there with all these boy briends.

1686
01:44:16,439 --> 01:44:21,080
Speaker 1: I said, wait a second, this is like the idol maker,

1687
01:44:21,160 --> 01:44:23,640
Speaker 1: this is like this is amazing. This could make an

1688
01:44:23,640 --> 01:44:27,960
Speaker 1: amazing movie. Right, So then we always talked about, you know,

1689
01:44:28,000 --> 01:44:31,679
Speaker 1: how we would do it. So then when Luke Perlman

1690
01:44:31,800 --> 01:44:37,320
Speaker 1: got caught perpetrating one of the biggest Ponzi schemes in

1691
01:44:37,560 --> 01:44:41,000
Speaker 1: history and then he goes to jail, like, the story

1692
01:44:41,120 --> 01:44:45,879
Speaker 1: just got better and better, and so Andreas like maybe

1693
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:48,280
Speaker 1: and I like eight years ago we bought the rights

1694
01:44:48,320 --> 01:44:50,320
Speaker 1: to a book on the subject called The Hit Sharade

1695
01:44:50,320 --> 01:44:54,479
Speaker 1: by Tyler Gray and then we bought the right. We option.

1696
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:56,280
Speaker 1: I would say I didn't winn't buy the rights. We

1697
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:59,920
Speaker 1: option the rights uh to an article in Vantage. Then

1698
01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,760
Speaker 1: ay Fair called Matt about the boys. And so we

1699
01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:10,439
Speaker 1: finally have amazing partners. Ed pressman, pressman film, um Greg

1700
01:45:10,479 --> 01:45:14,160
Speaker 1: Basser who was with Village Road Show uh and now

1701
01:45:14,200 --> 01:45:18,120
Speaker 1: he has his own company, Gentle Giant. He's Australian David Anton,

1702
01:45:18,320 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: he's a you know, high end brand marketeer. Andreas and

1703
01:45:24,040 --> 01:45:29,559
Speaker 1: myself and um Heather Winters who's one of my close

1704
01:45:29,560 --> 01:45:33,200
Speaker 1: friends since she was the producer of the executive producer

1705
01:45:33,200 --> 01:45:37,360
Speaker 1: of Supersized Me. And so we are now moving forward

1706
01:45:37,400 --> 01:45:41,160
Speaker 1: to try to you know, get the director. The money's

1707
01:45:41,200 --> 01:45:44,720
Speaker 1: called coming, it's all doing. It's a scripted film on

1708
01:45:44,760 --> 01:45:50,200
Speaker 1: the subject. And I think what happened was that I

1709
01:45:50,200 --> 01:45:52,400
Speaker 1: would come to l A and you know, I write

1710
01:45:52,439 --> 01:45:55,600
Speaker 1: with different people and then you know, before you know it,

1711
01:45:55,600 --> 01:45:57,559
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, there's like six people on the song.

1712
01:45:58,040 --> 01:46:00,640
Speaker 1: And then maybe you could get Selena go Mess to

1713
01:46:00,880 --> 01:46:02,960
Speaker 1: maybe cut a song. But if it's not a single,

1714
01:46:03,520 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: then it's like all that effort, the trip, everything, it's

1715
01:46:07,000 --> 01:46:10,280
Speaker 1: just or it doesn't get cut at all. And I said,

1716
01:46:10,280 --> 01:46:12,120
Speaker 1: you know what, I want to be a buyer, not

1717
01:46:12,240 --> 01:46:15,559
Speaker 1: a seller. I want to decide what songs go into

1718
01:46:15,600 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 1: some big projects, and I want to put on you know, music,

1719
01:46:20,000 --> 01:46:22,599
Speaker 1: and I want to write things. So that's what had

1720
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:27,280
Speaker 1: gotten into my head. Doing a musical, doing a movie, um,

1721
01:46:27,320 --> 01:46:30,960
Speaker 1: you know, and I have other ideas you know that

1722
01:46:31,000 --> 01:46:34,799
Speaker 1: I'm pursuing. And it's fun. It's really creative too because

1723
01:46:34,840 --> 01:46:37,520
Speaker 1: I always wrote for archetypes, so I'm writing for characters

1724
01:46:38,240 --> 01:46:43,000
Speaker 1: and um so this uh but the it's called trans

1725
01:46:43,080 --> 01:46:49,280
Speaker 1: Con Theoretical Airline. The movie is called trans Con The

1726
01:46:49,400 --> 01:46:53,120
Speaker 1: Making of lou Perlman and the Boy Band Revolution. Now.

1727
01:46:53,760 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 1: Uh so if someone calls you to write, co write today,

1728
01:46:56,640 --> 01:47:02,040
Speaker 1: you will say, um, well, like who like an artist

1729
01:47:02,160 --> 01:47:05,639
Speaker 1: or like other pals you know that are an artist?

1730
01:47:06,160 --> 01:47:10,560
Speaker 1: An artist? Well, you know, there's some really great artists

1731
01:47:10,600 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: that are young and and I listen to them and

1732
01:47:15,240 --> 01:47:17,840
Speaker 1: if I feel that spark, I will write with them.

1733
01:47:18,479 --> 01:47:21,680
Speaker 1: So in Nashville there's some new artists that I'm you know,

1734
01:47:21,960 --> 01:47:25,519
Speaker 1: kind of working with and developing. But I'm also meeting with,

1735
01:47:26,040 --> 01:47:29,920
Speaker 1: you know, an artist that's already making records and touring. Um,

1736
01:47:30,200 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 1: and so I'm like I will meet, I will write,

1737
01:47:34,600 --> 01:47:39,120
Speaker 1: I will you know. I'm just I just don't put

1738
01:47:39,160 --> 01:47:41,720
Speaker 1: myself on a pedestal. The only problem is when the

1739
01:47:41,760 --> 01:47:45,639
Speaker 1: person doesn't have writing skills that it's like playing like

1740
01:47:46,200 --> 01:47:51,280
Speaker 1: Serena Williams playing with Grandma. It's like, that's not that's

1741
01:47:51,320 --> 01:47:54,000
Speaker 1: not fun for me. And I don't think the best

1742
01:47:54,000 --> 01:47:57,080
Speaker 1: thing comes out because then I impose everything on that

1743
01:47:57,160 --> 01:47:59,639
Speaker 1: other person. They may not be able to pull it off.

1744
01:48:00,400 --> 01:48:03,400
Speaker 1: And how often are you doing that? That's my day

1745
01:48:03,479 --> 01:48:06,439
Speaker 1: job and I'm I'm like, I'll be going to New

1746
01:48:06,520 --> 01:48:09,320
Speaker 1: York to work on my Broadway show or come out

1747
01:48:09,360 --> 01:48:12,599
Speaker 1: here and doing I'm you know, yesterday I was running

1748
01:48:12,640 --> 01:48:15,360
Speaker 1: with for the last two days with Rock Mafia, and

1749
01:48:15,560 --> 01:48:17,679
Speaker 1: you know, we had a hit together with Z called

1750
01:48:17,680 --> 01:48:22,200
Speaker 1: Beautiful Now, so you know we we're doing good. And

1751
01:48:22,320 --> 01:48:25,599
Speaker 1: they welcome me so beautifully. That's that's because I'm not

1752
01:48:25,840 --> 01:48:27,760
Speaker 1: there in their face all the time. I come every

1753
01:48:27,800 --> 01:48:32,280
Speaker 1: few months. They're always happy to see me. And then Nashville,

1754
01:48:32,280 --> 01:48:34,400
Speaker 1: I have my own studio and all that and people

1755
01:48:34,439 --> 01:48:39,240
Speaker 1: are coming and um so why Nashville, there's a game? Man?

1756
01:48:40,080 --> 01:48:45,439
Speaker 1: Well after we had you know, after after nine eleven,

1757
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:49,360
Speaker 1: see I go from tragedy tragedy earthquake. Nine eleven, I

1758
01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:52,439
Speaker 1: had like twelve people working for me. It was the

1759
01:48:52,520 --> 01:48:56,880
Speaker 1: Ricky Martin machine, and so Ricky lives six blocks away,

1760
01:48:56,920 --> 01:49:01,600
Speaker 1: so we had four studios going and and engineers assistant engineers.

1761
01:49:01,800 --> 01:49:04,599
Speaker 1: We were right on the water. Our cook was cooking

1762
01:49:04,600 --> 01:49:07,479
Speaker 1: for ten twelve people every day, you know, lunch and dinner.

1763
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:11,240
Speaker 1: It was like a machine. And then after nine eleven,

1764
01:49:11,400 --> 01:49:15,519
Speaker 1: the record companies. On the one hand, I didn't want

1765
01:49:15,520 --> 01:49:20,519
Speaker 1: to pay too because remember the file sharing and all that.

1766
01:49:20,840 --> 01:49:24,240
Speaker 1: They stopped letting people come and rent apartments or stay

1767
01:49:24,240 --> 01:49:27,200
Speaker 1: in hotels to work with me. And also people were

1768
01:49:27,240 --> 01:49:30,760
Speaker 1: afraid to fly, so now I spent. Then my my

1769
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:35,599
Speaker 1: children were born two thousand two, and so we had

1770
01:49:35,600 --> 01:49:38,479
Speaker 1: a problem because the state of Florida wouldn't allow my

1771
01:49:38,600 --> 01:49:43,040
Speaker 1: husband to be a legal co parent, So that was

1772
01:49:44,000 --> 01:49:48,519
Speaker 1: that wasn't good. And so I had four houses, I

1773
01:49:48,520 --> 01:49:52,240
Speaker 1: had my mom, and and it was like I wasn't

1774
01:49:52,280 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 1: working and the things I was getting were real like

1775
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:58,960
Speaker 1: kind of sea level artists. Just to keep the lights

1776
01:49:59,000 --> 01:50:03,519
Speaker 1: on and takeing on. I said, I'm wasting myself. It's

1777
01:50:03,600 --> 01:50:08,160
Speaker 1: this isn't And at the same time, American Idol started happening,

1778
01:50:08,600 --> 01:50:10,880
Speaker 1: so I started spending so much time in l A.

1779
01:50:11,000 --> 01:50:13,759
Speaker 1: And and Clive was nice enough to put me into

1780
01:50:13,840 --> 01:50:19,480
Speaker 1: with Kelly Clarkson and Clay Aiken and Carrie Underwood and

1781
01:50:19,479 --> 01:50:22,400
Speaker 1: and Fantasia and all this kind of stuff. So I

1782
01:50:22,439 --> 01:50:26,240
Speaker 1: was working for Clive, but my family was in Miami,

1783
01:50:26,320 --> 01:50:28,200
Speaker 1: so you know, I kind of said, Okay, that's it,

1784
01:50:28,760 --> 01:50:31,800
Speaker 1: let's just go back to l A. And you know,

1785
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:34,400
Speaker 1: Max Martin had moved to l A. Everybody was moving

1786
01:50:34,439 --> 01:50:36,600
Speaker 1: to l A. And it seemed like, well, maybe I

1787
01:50:36,600 --> 01:50:39,920
Speaker 1: can jump in like that. So we bought a house

1788
01:50:40,360 --> 01:50:45,599
Speaker 1: and in Montenito, next to sam um Um Will Smith.

1789
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:50,719
Speaker 1: His like property was like stones throw away from ours.

1790
01:50:50,800 --> 01:50:52,920
Speaker 1: It was four and a half acres this house, and

1791
01:50:52,960 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 1: it had a waterfall, koy ponds, and it had all

1792
01:50:55,439 --> 01:50:59,400
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. But you know was after our

1793
01:50:59,439 --> 01:51:02,719
Speaker 1: friends all had fun at our big fifty foot pool,

1794
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:05,599
Speaker 1: then they stopped coming to hang out with us. So

1795
01:51:05,640 --> 01:51:07,559
Speaker 1: we started to feel very isolated. So we moved to

1796
01:51:07,600 --> 01:51:10,560
Speaker 1: Santa Monica and we had a glorious time because the

1797
01:51:10,640 --> 01:51:13,760
Speaker 1: kids went to like a preschool called Little Dolphins by

1798
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:17,599
Speaker 1: the Sea, and we met so many lifetime friends there,

1799
01:51:17,600 --> 01:51:21,599
Speaker 1: it seemed like okay. And then finally the market that

1800
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 1: we had bought a house in Center Market, but the

1801
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 1: market had really peaked, and we said, because we had

1802
01:51:27,479 --> 01:51:31,280
Speaker 1: always had our little cabin in in in Nashville, I said,

1803
01:51:31,640 --> 01:51:34,360
Speaker 1: let's just sell. Let's go to Nashville and Curtis. We

1804
01:51:34,439 --> 01:51:36,640
Speaker 1: also got scared because a lot of our friends that

1805
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:40,920
Speaker 1: had teenage kids, you know, going too high private high schools,

1806
01:51:41,360 --> 01:51:44,720
Speaker 1: they were all already in rehab once or twice, and

1807
01:51:44,720 --> 01:51:47,040
Speaker 1: we said, do we really want to raise our sons

1808
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:54,920
Speaker 1: here with these dangers. So Curtis, who's from Missouri, you know,

1809
01:51:55,200 --> 01:51:58,639
Speaker 1: and his we can drive to his his mom's house

1810
01:51:58,680 --> 01:52:02,680
Speaker 1: and all that said, know, let's go to Nashville. And

1811
01:52:02,760 --> 01:52:06,000
Speaker 1: we've had a beautiful life there. We really have. Okay,

1812
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:09,559
Speaker 1: a couple of things. Two songs you're most proud of

1813
01:52:11,800 --> 01:52:17,000
Speaker 1: Weird with Hansen, because that's the song that I feel

1814
01:52:17,439 --> 01:52:22,479
Speaker 1: reflects them where you know, I feel you know, it's

1815
01:52:22,520 --> 01:52:26,840
Speaker 1: like when you're you're feeling different and then kind of

1816
01:52:26,880 --> 01:52:28,880
Speaker 1: getting to the place where you know what, even the

1817
01:52:28,920 --> 01:52:32,960
Speaker 1: prom queen feels different. You know, she everyone looks at her,

1818
01:52:33,000 --> 01:52:36,120
Speaker 1: she thinks, you know, everybody thinks she's so perfect and

1819
01:52:36,200 --> 01:52:40,320
Speaker 1: she's the most insecure and so it's one of the

1820
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:47,599
Speaker 1: most beautiful songs, you know, continue and um, it's it's

1821
01:52:47,720 --> 01:52:51,040
Speaker 1: inspired by Burt Backrack and the lyrics of haw David.

1822
01:52:51,920 --> 01:53:00,799
Speaker 1: So I'm you know, I feel that song. And um

1823
01:53:00,840 --> 01:53:03,320
Speaker 1: there's a song that I wrote with John bon Jovi

1824
01:53:03,479 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 1: called you Want to Make a Memory and I sing

1825
01:53:06,439 --> 01:53:09,160
Speaker 1: it in my show and I love that song because

1826
01:53:10,720 --> 01:53:15,519
Speaker 1: you know, uh, my life is so much I mean,

1827
01:53:15,640 --> 01:53:18,599
Speaker 1: I'm still friends with my high school friends. It's about

1828
01:53:19,080 --> 01:53:23,519
Speaker 1: you know, we have so many memories and um, I

1829
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:26,800
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe that's kind of a maybe the age

1830
01:53:26,800 --> 01:53:29,400
Speaker 1: that I'm in looking back on my life, retrospect in

1831
01:53:29,520 --> 01:53:32,080
Speaker 1: my book, all this kind of stuff. But the idea

1832
01:53:32,120 --> 01:53:35,960
Speaker 1: of making new memories, you have to make an effort. So,

1833
01:53:36,360 --> 01:53:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, we get our friends and we all found

1834
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 1: this little island in Greece and we meet there every summer.

1835
01:53:42,240 --> 01:53:46,200
Speaker 1: We're going now for our twelve How many people go, Oh,

1836
01:53:46,439 --> 01:53:48,639
Speaker 1: they come in and out, you know, but we stay

1837
01:53:48,680 --> 01:53:51,519
Speaker 1: there for a month and then we stay at the

1838
01:53:51,600 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: most fantastic It's Mama Mia, right, and you're on a

1839
01:53:55,439 --> 01:54:01,360
Speaker 1: cliff and everything, and uh, you just forget about the world.

1840
01:54:01,720 --> 01:54:05,400
Speaker 1: You start leaving your phone in your room, you start

1841
01:54:05,920 --> 01:54:09,759
Speaker 1: not there's no TV. Uh, you stop looking at your computer,

1842
01:54:10,439 --> 01:54:12,400
Speaker 1: and you start making a life for yourself and you

1843
01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:16,400
Speaker 1: start peeling away all of this stuff. You know. By

1844
01:54:16,439 --> 01:54:20,160
Speaker 1: the end, it's like, oh, there's just two more days. Really,

1845
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:24,400
Speaker 1: can we change our flights? Can we stay longer? Because

1846
01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:27,280
Speaker 1: you know, you you start getting in touch. And then

1847
01:54:27,280 --> 01:54:30,360
Speaker 1: our kids, who tough guys. I don't know how they

1848
01:54:30,400 --> 01:54:34,000
Speaker 1: turned into such jocks. You know. My son's Roman and

1849
01:54:34,080 --> 01:54:38,800
Speaker 1: Nero named after Lawer Nero and y r Oh. I

1850
01:54:38,880 --> 01:54:44,520
Speaker 1: never saw jockey or jocks. I mean they will they

1851
01:54:45,040 --> 01:54:48,800
Speaker 1: vowed never to see another Broadway show. Yeah, they will

1852
01:54:48,800 --> 01:54:51,560
Speaker 1: not go. They will you know, hell no, we won't go.

1853
01:54:52,280 --> 01:54:56,080
Speaker 1: So we we started them seeing like you know, Billy

1854
01:54:56,160 --> 01:54:58,680
Speaker 1: Elliott in London when they were four years old. You know,

1855
01:54:58,720 --> 01:55:04,760
Speaker 1: it was like um and so they like, you know,

1856
01:55:05,160 --> 01:55:08,440
Speaker 1: they when we're in Greece, they turn like little kids,

1857
01:55:09,200 --> 01:55:11,839
Speaker 1: you know, because they see the other European children hugging

1858
01:55:11,840 --> 01:55:14,680
Speaker 1: their parents and stuff, and like when we're natural, it's

1859
01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:18,120
Speaker 1: like and then when we're there, it was like they

1860
01:55:19,200 --> 01:55:23,040
Speaker 1: just run like like in packs. They become like little

1861
01:55:23,120 --> 01:55:26,360
Speaker 1: kids and I just love that about being there, Okay,

1862
01:55:26,440 --> 01:55:30,080
Speaker 1: And what do you think about today's music? I love it.

1863
01:55:30,120 --> 01:55:34,840
Speaker 1: I mean I love um the inventiveness. And you know,

1864
01:55:34,920 --> 01:55:39,360
Speaker 1: it's like necessity, you know, because the budgets are you know,

1865
01:55:39,480 --> 01:55:42,400
Speaker 1: they give you Okay, here's five thousand dollars and now

1866
01:55:42,760 --> 01:55:47,160
Speaker 1: deliver your whole record. So what is it? Invention is

1867
01:55:47,200 --> 01:55:52,600
Speaker 1: the daughter of necessity. I think people are making the

1868
01:55:52,680 --> 01:55:56,280
Speaker 1: most out of samples and things and and actually bringing

1869
01:55:56,320 --> 01:55:59,360
Speaker 1: into a high art form and I applaud it and

1870
01:55:59,400 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 1: I think it's really good and it's more egalitarian, like

1871
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:05,760
Speaker 1: you can make a song today tonight and put it

1872
01:56:05,800 --> 01:56:10,320
Speaker 1: out tonight before you'd wait two years for your single

1873
01:56:10,440 --> 01:56:13,560
Speaker 1: to finally appear, and by that point it's out of style.

1874
01:56:14,640 --> 01:56:19,040
Speaker 1: And so uh, I just think that this. I'm not

1875
01:56:19,120 --> 01:56:22,280
Speaker 1: afraid of technology. I just love it and I'm working

1876
01:56:22,320 --> 01:56:26,280
Speaker 1: in it. And what about melody? Melody? That's the thing.

1877
01:56:26,440 --> 01:56:29,760
Speaker 1: It's like with these cut and paste things, I think

1878
01:56:30,000 --> 01:56:33,600
Speaker 1: people get too lazy. And also they don't dig deep

1879
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:38,400
Speaker 1: enough into into the lyrics as much as they could.

1880
01:56:39,200 --> 01:56:43,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I love urban music because lyrics are so

1881
01:56:43,280 --> 01:56:45,920
Speaker 1: important to it and the inner rhyming and a literation

1882
01:56:46,240 --> 01:56:48,840
Speaker 1: but I'm just talking about you know, pop music that

1883
01:56:48,920 --> 01:56:52,320
Speaker 1: has you know, urban riffs and stuff like that. It

1884
01:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,040
Speaker 1: just doesn't sometimes feel like it's deep. Like I love

1885
01:56:56,240 --> 01:57:01,560
Speaker 1: Halsey that song, you know without me. I just love

1886
01:57:01,640 --> 01:57:05,440
Speaker 1: the sound of that and Billie Eilish and like all

1887
01:57:05,480 --> 01:57:08,560
Speaker 1: of that, and the way that they're those productions are

1888
01:57:08,600 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 1: there so sparse and they make the most out of nothing.

1889
01:57:11,960 --> 01:57:16,560
Speaker 1: They're like Japanese haikus or something. I see it like

1890
01:57:16,640 --> 01:57:20,560
Speaker 1: that because and I'm like back in the day, the

1891
01:57:20,680 --> 01:57:24,440
Speaker 1: King of Walls of Sound. I love, you know, I

1892
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:28,720
Speaker 1: listened to Love Deluxe like over and over again. I

1893
01:57:28,840 --> 01:57:31,080
Speaker 1: never get sick of it. It sounds like it was

1894
01:57:31,760 --> 01:57:36,320
Speaker 1: done yesterday like today, and when somebody's doing true art,

1895
01:57:36,400 --> 01:57:40,320
Speaker 1: it's timeless, and you know, I'm always striving for that.

1896
01:57:40,800 --> 01:57:43,120
Speaker 1: And so I love I love the music of today,

1897
01:57:43,280 --> 01:57:48,600
Speaker 1: and it was someone who's creative. What inspires you, well,

1898
01:57:49,880 --> 01:57:57,640
Speaker 1: you know, I I think that when somebody some some

1899
01:57:57,680 --> 01:58:02,400
Speaker 1: people have natural talent, you know, they're just anything they touched,

1900
01:58:02,440 --> 01:58:04,200
Speaker 1: they like, they'll turn that box and all of sudden

1901
01:58:04,200 --> 01:58:05,440
Speaker 1: they turn it on its side, and all of a

1902
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:08,880
Speaker 1: sudden they put something on top, and it's art. They

1903
01:58:08,960 --> 01:58:12,240
Speaker 1: have the eye or they have the ear. Those people

1904
01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:15,640
Speaker 1: are so rare, you know, because we also live in

1905
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:20,000
Speaker 1: the world where everybody wants to be famous. It's like

1906
01:58:20,680 --> 01:58:24,240
Speaker 1: you can be famous for nothing and you're just cute

1907
01:58:24,320 --> 01:58:28,600
Speaker 1: and funny or something, and you can have billions of followers.

1908
01:58:29,720 --> 01:58:33,400
Speaker 1: So I think that when somebody walks into my office

1909
01:58:34,280 --> 01:58:39,560
Speaker 1: and they have it, it's like I come alive, like

1910
01:58:39,640 --> 01:58:43,280
Speaker 1: I get it and I feel it. And so there's

1911
01:58:43,280 --> 01:58:46,800
Speaker 1: always somebody being born who has it, and so, but

1912
01:58:46,880 --> 01:58:51,400
Speaker 1: it's not that many because it's a rare thing. Before,

1913
01:58:51,840 --> 01:58:55,560
Speaker 1: when Clyde was putting out three fifty albums, you know,

1914
01:58:55,880 --> 01:59:01,400
Speaker 1: in the seventies in every genre, you know, that was

1915
01:59:01,480 --> 01:59:06,440
Speaker 1: the Harvard of Music, you know, and you know, it

1916
01:59:06,560 --> 01:59:10,400
Speaker 1: was like wow, and you'd listen to those records over

1917
01:59:10,400 --> 01:59:13,520
Speaker 1: and over and over again. Now it's like it sounds

1918
01:59:13,520 --> 01:59:16,440
Speaker 1: it seems like people are putting out three songs a second.

1919
01:59:17,080 --> 01:59:22,280
Speaker 1: I think they are. I mean, it's almost impossible to

1920
01:59:22,280 --> 01:59:26,560
Speaker 1: to wrap your head around it. And and of all that,

1921
01:59:26,720 --> 01:59:30,360
Speaker 1: what really is essential? Really, I guess people find it

1922
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:35,040
Speaker 1: and then it touches them, you know. And so if

1923
01:59:35,040 --> 01:59:39,640
Speaker 1: it's moving people and inspiring people, or even if it's

1924
01:59:39,680 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 1: not inspiring people's making people mad. I think that's it's

1925
01:59:43,960 --> 01:59:49,200
Speaker 1: bringing out emotion. I think that that's worthwhile. But you know,

1926
01:59:49,480 --> 01:59:58,560
Speaker 1: the who knows where the world's going, right, it's it's

1927
01:59:58,600 --> 02:00:01,600
Speaker 1: going so fast I can't keep track of it. I

1928
02:00:01,720 --> 02:00:04,360
Speaker 1: just want to be as I heard Dolly Parton once

1929
02:00:04,400 --> 02:00:08,000
Speaker 1: say on TV. She said, well I want to be

1930
02:00:08,080 --> 02:00:13,280
Speaker 1: an active participant in the entertainment industry. And there we

1931
02:00:13,360 --> 02:00:15,960
Speaker 1: have it. Desmond, thanks so much for doing this. Has

1932
02:00:16,000 --> 02:00:18,960
Speaker 1: been wonderful. Thank you. I feel like I've been in

1933
02:00:19,000 --> 02:00:21,520
Speaker 1: therapy the whole time. Well, hopefully it will benefit you

1934
02:00:21,560 --> 02:00:23,960
Speaker 1: as much of my audience. Until next time, This is

1935
02:00:24,000 --> 02:00:24,920
Speaker 1: Bob Left says