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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds. And Beijing has called JD. Van's ignorant

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Speaker 1: over his Chinese peasant remarks. We have a great show

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Speaker 1: for you today. Risk Reversal's own Dan Nathan.

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Speaker 2: Stops by to tell us about.

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Speaker 1: The business world's reaction to Trump's insane tariffs.

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Speaker 2: They don't like it.

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Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to John Allen and Amy Parnis about

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Speaker 1: their new book, Fight Inside the Wildest Battle for the

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Speaker 1: White House.

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Speaker 2: But first the news smile.

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Speaker 3: You know who I think of. I want spying on

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Speaker 3: my data to see if I'm saying things bad and

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Speaker 3: slack or whatever. Your workplace thing is a guy named

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Speaker 3: big Boss.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we're back to big balls. Big balls.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So it turns out the Environmental Protection Agency, though,

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Speaker 1: by the way, it is so insane that Elon. While

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump is ruining the capital markets, crashing the gap markets,

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Speaker 1: Elon is continued taking a chainsaw to the federal government

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Speaker 1: doge spying on federal workers for anti Trump, anti Musk messages. Shockingly,

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Speaker 1: the Environmental Protection Agency here are the people who just

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Speaker 1: want to protect the environment. Supposedly, the DOGE staff are

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Speaker 1: using AI to spy and communication sent by federal workers

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Speaker 1: to detect anti Trump or anti Musk language. What are

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Speaker 1: we doing here? First of all, why do you even care?

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Speaker 1: Right people say bad things about you? This is one

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Speaker 1: of the facts of being a famous person. I'm sorry, guys,

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Speaker 1: like this is what it is.

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Speaker 3: Man, It's called a workplace in America.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well not for these two. Reuters cites two anonymous

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Speaker 1: people with knowledge of the matter. By the way, everyone

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Speaker 1: in the federal government is now leaking.

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Speaker 2: Like a fucking SIEV.

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Speaker 1: Who said this happened to the ep They had been

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Speaker 1: told so by Trump appointed officials. By the way, I'm

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Speaker 1: sure this's happening in every branch of the federal government.

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Speaker 1: If they're doing it at the EPA, they're doing it everywhere.

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Speaker 1: We have been told they're looking for anti Trump or

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Speaker 1: anti Musk language.

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Speaker 2: Before they were.

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Speaker 1: Just looking for DEI right, anti racism. Now they're looking

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Speaker 1: for naughty speak. By the way, I'm going to ask you, Jesse,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that Elon Musk is a free speech absolutist.

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Speaker 3: Well, what we've learned is that thing is facts. Don't

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Speaker 3: care about your feelings less they're his feelings.

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Speaker 2: That's right, baby.

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Speaker 1: In true Axio style, we can ask ourselves why it matters.

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Speaker 1: It matters because it's against law, and it's also I

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Speaker 1: mean again, it may not be against law, depending on

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Speaker 1: what kind of waivers or legal machinations you've signed on to,

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Speaker 1: but it is pretty bad and it certainly undermines the

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Speaker 1: whole idea that these people care about free speech. Elon Musk,

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Speaker 1: the billionaire CEO of both Tesla and SpaceX, which have

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Speaker 1: been taking a hammering lightly due to Donald Trump's Tara fiasco,

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Speaker 1: is leading efforts of DOGE to cut what it identifies

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Speaker 1: as fraud or waste, though technically a lot of that

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Speaker 1: fraud is government programs he doesn't like. Trump has long

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Speaker 1: railed against what he calls the deep state, the federal government,

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Speaker 1: and anyone who he thinks is not going along with

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Speaker 1: his agenda. Look, this is just yet another way to

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Speaker 1: turn the federal government against you, to dehumanize these people.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, I want to just say this

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Speaker 1: one more time. The people work in the federal government

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Speaker 1: are working in the federal government because they believe in

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Speaker 1: what the federal government is doing. Many many, many of

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Speaker 1: these people could make a lot more money in the

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Speaker 1: private sector the way Elon Musk did. But these people

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Speaker 1: are doing this because they believe in the sort of

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Speaker 1: good work that the government does. And it is really

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Speaker 1: disheartening to watch these people cut it up.

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Speaker 3: Speaking of cutting it up, many people notice that Social

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Speaker 3: Security is website crashed this week. Guess what caused it?

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Speaker 3: It was doge And now there's a very very interesting

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Speaker 3: reaction to this.

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Speaker 2: So I know you're going to be shocked again.

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Speaker 1: But part of what's happening here is that what Trump

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Speaker 1: and Elon considered to be fraud, waste, and abuse are

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Speaker 1: things they don't like. One of the things they don't

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Speaker 1: like is Social Security because it's expensive and it makes

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Speaker 1: up a lot of the government spending money that Donald Trump.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but yesterday Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump said that they're going to up the Pentagon budget

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Speaker 1: a ton.

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Speaker 3: Right by trillion dollars, by.

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Speaker 1: Trillion dollars, and that money needs to come from somewhere,

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Speaker 1: and they would like it to come from Medicare, Medicaid,

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Speaker 1: and Social Security.

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Speaker 3: So who do we think we'll get some of that

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Speaker 3: Pentagon budget?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, certainly not private contractor Elon. So, look,

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Speaker 1: they want social Security not to work so that people

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Speaker 1: can't collect it.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we're seeing here.

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Speaker 1: The website is used by about seventy million Social Security

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Speaker 1: benefit recipients. By the way, you pay into social Security.

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Speaker 2: This is your money. This is not Elon Musk's money.

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Speaker 2: What to know.

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Speaker 1: The website has experienced multiple crashes and errors in recent weeks.

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Speaker 1: Just like Elon did to X nay Twitter, he is

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Speaker 1: now doing to Social Security. Earlier this months, some disability

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Speaker 1: payment recipients received notice on the my Social Security porthole

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Speaker 1: that they were no longer receiving benefits. The Washing Post

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Speaker 1: has a really heart wrenching story of a mother with

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Speaker 1: a disabled son who got an email that she was

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Speaker 1: not getting his Social Security benefits anymore. There's just a

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Speaker 1: ton of real hardship here. People are being retraumatized by

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Speaker 1: Elon Musk. And know this man, this is what he does,

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Speaker 1: so be prepared, non surprised.

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Speaker 3: So also speaking of things that does not surprise me.

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Speaker 3: The Supreme Court fucking sucks. This ruling they made about

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Speaker 3: deportations is not good.

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Speaker 1: Yes and no, this is a complicated ruin. They said

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Speaker 1: that Trump has a little more time on this, right,

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Speaker 1: they weren't going to get the guy back in the

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Speaker 1: time that they needed, So in that way, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it was a total victory for Trump, and I've

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Speaker 1: I've read a bunch about this. Basically, Barrett sided with

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Speaker 1: the liberals. They are saying that he can use this

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Speaker 1: Alien Enemies Act for deportation, but they're saying that these

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Speaker 1: people are entitled to due process, despite the fact that

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Speaker 1: they are not in this country legally. Trump world took

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Speaker 1: this as a big win, but the reality is Trump

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Speaker 1: World had been saying that people not in this country,

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Speaker 1: we're not entitled to do process. This decision says they

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Speaker 1: are entitled to do process. So well, Trump is able

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Speaker 1: to use the Alien Enemies Act, which is, by the way, bonkers, right,

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Speaker 1: it's a wartime power. You know, there's no war, so

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Speaker 1: it's completely bonkers. But at least there is one good thing,

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Speaker 1: which is it means that these people are entitled to

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Speaker 1: do process, which we all knew to be true. That

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Speaker 1: said Sonya, So to my air my one of my

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Speaker 1: favorite Supreme Court justices wrote a staggering descent. We as

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Speaker 1: a nation and a court of law should be better

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Speaker 1: than this. But there are five.

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Speaker 2: Fox News justices who say otherwise.

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Speaker 1: Dan Nathan is a c NBC contributor and co host

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Speaker 1: of the podcast Risk Reversal.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Fast Politics, Dan Nathan.

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Speaker 4: Molly, it's great to be back with you.

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Speaker 2: Explain to us what is going on with the public markets?

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Speaker 5: All right, So we have a situation here where there's

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Speaker 5: very little guidance coming out of the White House. I

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Speaker 5: think there's very little clarity about what they're trying to

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Speaker 5: achieve with their tariff policy.

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Speaker 4: There's fears that the.

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Speaker 5: Tariff situation right here, if not resolved anytime soon, is

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Speaker 5: going to cause an economic recession. Markets usually try to

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Speaker 5: sniff that out ahead of time.

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Speaker 4: I think that's what they're doing here.

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Speaker 5: And so again you're going to hear this again and again,

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Speaker 5: and I've heard it on your podcast over the last

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Speaker 5: couple weeks. We can get talking about this. Public markets

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Speaker 5: do not like uncertainty. They like a level of clarity,

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Speaker 5: at least if they can't figure out what the endgame is.

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Speaker 5: They like to know the rules. And I think right

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Speaker 5: now the rules aren't particularly clear, and that's why you've

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Speaker 5: had this swoon lower in stocks, which really started in February.

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Speaker 5: But I think it was just a little bit of

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Speaker 5: trepidation that normally happens in the markets when you have

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Speaker 5: uncertainty about the economy. But then you throw in this

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Speaker 5: monkey wrench that really could you know, upend the US

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Speaker 5: economy and thus the global economy, and therefore investors start

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Speaker 5: discounting future earnings right, which basically causes them to sell stocks.

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Speaker 5: And that's what we've had over the last couple weeks.

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Speaker 1: Everyone is going to listen to this on Wednesday, and

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Speaker 1: so we'll have more volatility, whatever that looks like. But

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Speaker 1: I'm curious if you could just explain to us sort

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Speaker 1: of what you think would help the markets at this moment.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, one thing that helped yesterday was the notion that,

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Speaker 5: you know, there might be a push out of the

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Speaker 5: tariffs that are going into place this week, and I

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Speaker 5: think the rumor and it was unfounded that there was

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Speaker 5: going to be a ninety day moratorium basically on these

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Speaker 5: and giving some time to do these bilateral talks with

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Speaker 5: first Canada and Mexico and the EU and Japan. And

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Speaker 5: so that caused a massive rally in the stock market

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Speaker 5: that had been down fifteen percent in three trading days.

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Speaker 5: So here we are today, it's Tuesday, on the open.

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Speaker 5: The market followed through to the upside. So as we

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Speaker 5: say as traders, we see a sea of green out

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Speaker 5: there and a lot of stocks that got really over sold,

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Speaker 5: a rallying, and some of the ones that are meant

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Speaker 5: to be the hard hit by tariffs. Right, So you've

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Speaker 5: had this momentum back to the upside. But if nothing materializes,

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Speaker 5: you know, over the next few days or so, you're

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Speaker 5: going to see market participants kind of sell stocks again

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Speaker 5: because they don't again have the clarity. One thing I

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Speaker 5: want to be really clear about also is that you

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Speaker 5: know I just mentioned earnings, right, those are the drivers

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Speaker 5: of stocks for the most part. Every year, every quarter

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Speaker 5: we see four times that companies report their earnings and

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Speaker 5: they give guidance going forward about how they think that

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Speaker 5: those earnings are going to be over the next three

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Speaker 5: months or so.

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Speaker 4: That starts this Friday.

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Speaker 5: Some of the biggest banks, JP, Morgan, Wells, Fargo, Morgan Stanley,

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Speaker 5: They're all going to be reporting earnings, and what these

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Speaker 5: CEOs have to say about the current environment and then

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Speaker 5: looking past, let's say the next few months is going

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Speaker 5: to be really important for market sentiment. And so if

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Speaker 5: Jamie Diamond, the CEO of the largest bank in the

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Speaker 5: world on Friday morning, suggests that we don't have a

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Speaker 5: lot of clarity about how consumers are going to be spending,

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Speaker 5: how businesses are going to be spending, that's the sort

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Speaker 5: of thing that could really weigh on the stock market

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Speaker 5: as we get into this Q one earing season.

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Speaker 1: So one of the things that Trump World is pushing

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Speaker 1: back with is they're saying, well, there are people coming

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Speaker 1: to the negotiating table. We saw best and say that,

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Speaker 1: Terasury Secretary Scott Besson. But overnight we saw China go yeah,

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Speaker 1: but we're not. And in fact, they are sort of

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Speaker 1: escalating the trade war. And then Trump came back with

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Speaker 1: more tariffs, which would eat cool some crazy number of

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Speaker 1: you know, more tariff than the cost of the good

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Speaker 1: talk us through where that is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 5: So, and I think you and I talked about this

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Speaker 5: a couple of weeks ago, and it was last done.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I think a lot of folks, at least

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Speaker 5: in the markets, feel like, you know, the Trump administration

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Speaker 5: did this ass backwards. Right if you had gone to

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Speaker 5: our largest trading partners, which are also our largest allies

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Speaker 5: or most important allies and really behind the scenes struck

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Speaker 5: some deals that could have been used as a framework

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Speaker 5: right as you kind of expand out some of this

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Speaker 5: kind of tariff talk beyond those folks, you could have

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Speaker 5: then had a united front against China and really try

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Speaker 5: to get the rest of the world behind you and

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Speaker 5: the leadership and really kind of focus on, you know,

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Speaker 5: some of the ills that are kind of you know,

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Speaker 5: China and they're manufacturing have placed on the rest of

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Speaker 5: the world, and so that you know, the situation right

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Speaker 5: here is like as soon as you get.

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Speaker 4: A Japan deal or an EU deal, or a Canada.

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Speaker 5: Or Mexico, then the biggest target is China. And so again,

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Speaker 5: the Chinese are sitting back here and yeah, they're not

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Speaker 5: particularly excited about all the threats from Trump, but they're

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Speaker 5: looking at, you know, the fraying of relations between the

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Speaker 5: US and some of their biggest partners, and it goes

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Speaker 5: beyond just the economic implications. It goes to security and

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Speaker 5: the like. And you know, before this trade situation got

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Speaker 5: all dialed up, we were focused on the war in

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Speaker 5: Ukraine and some other geopolitical situations, and so they're looking

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Speaker 5: around and saying, you know what our economy is weak.

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Speaker 5: We're willing to stimulate it right now to kind of

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Speaker 5: help abate some of the kind of worst case scenarios

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Speaker 5: as it relates to this trade war. And we're also

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Speaker 5: going to play a heavy hand back to them because

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Speaker 5: you know the Chinese, you know that whole notion of face.

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Speaker 5: They don't like to be embarrassed. So the ratcheting up

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Speaker 5: of this with China really only makes the stakes that

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Speaker 5: much higher. And ultimately, if you do get some sort

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Speaker 5: of deal, it may end up being the sort of

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Speaker 5: situation that's not particularly palatable to either economy or either country,

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Speaker 5: and it could weigh on global growth and thus put

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Speaker 5: the potentially the world in a recession, which will not

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Speaker 5: be obviously a good thing from an economic standpoint, from

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Speaker 5: a political standpoint, and then also as you think about

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Speaker 5: what's going on in markets, which is kind of important

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Speaker 5: if you just think about the wealth of nations, the

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Speaker 5: wealth of consumers and the like. The last time we

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Speaker 5: had a major global recession was the financial crisis, obviously,

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Speaker 5: and you could think about COVID and you know, financial

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Speaker 5: assets get absolutely destroyed in those environments.

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Speaker 1: Trump has a sort of opportunity now to sort of

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Speaker 1: make some deals and then sort of back down and

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Speaker 1: save face the way he kind of did with NATO

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Speaker 1: the first time, right where he sort of renegotiated a

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Speaker 1: deal that didn't really make any difference. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he's kind of like been very good at solving problems

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Speaker 1: that he created, very very good at that. But if

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Speaker 1: China keeps going with this trend ward, he won't be

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Speaker 1: able to is that right?

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Speaker 5: Well, it really depends that you think about, you know,

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Speaker 5: the Chinese and their manufacturing infrastructure, and you know when

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Speaker 5: he looks at the deficit that we have, you know,

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Speaker 5: we import a lot more than they import from us.

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Speaker 5: That is really at the crux of kind of the

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Speaker 5: way he's thinking about this as zero sum game, and

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Speaker 5: it just isn't that, you know what I mean When

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Speaker 5: you think about it, China is one of the largest

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Speaker 5: holders of our debt. When they hold our debt in

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Speaker 5: dollar terms, they help fund our debt, right, So the

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Speaker 5: idea that we export more to China, right then they

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Speaker 5: export to us. Well, when they have that net difference,

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Speaker 5: they're buying US treasuries because US treasuries are meant to

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Speaker 5: be the safest risk asset on the planet. Also, more

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Speaker 5: demand for US dollars, right, which helps US fund our debt.

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Speaker 5: So if a big part of this trade policy or

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Speaker 5: these tariffs are basically to help lower our debt and deficit,

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Speaker 5: you know, it doesn't make a lot of sense that

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Speaker 5: you're going to, you know, basically deenalize some of the

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Speaker 5: largest holders of our debt. So you know, it's obviously

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Speaker 5: pretty complicated. If you're sitting out here and you listen

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Speaker 5: to Mali and you're a politico and you're trying to

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Speaker 5: make sense of this, you know, maybe what I'm speaking

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Speaker 5: to is a little bit of Greek. But when I

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Speaker 5: think about what I'm hearing from the Trump administration by

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Speaker 5: supposedly some very smart people like Treasury Secretary Scott Besson,

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Speaker 5: they're not making a lot of sense. When I hear

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Speaker 5: Besson go on Meet the Press on Sunday morning and

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Speaker 5: I listen to what he's trying to articulate to a

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Speaker 5: bunch of folks that are not staring at markets every day, right,

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Speaker 5: They're not that in tune with what goes on with

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Speaker 5: the economy. I don't think it's a particularly calming sort

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Speaker 5: of commentary that he had. And by the way, I

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Speaker 5: don't know if you saw this. He looks really nervous

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Speaker 5: and he wasn't making a whole a lot of sense.

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Speaker 5: So I think a lot of folks watching this over

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Speaker 5: the weekend. Maybe they weren't paying attention last week, but

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Speaker 5: they certainly were paying attention over the weekend. And I

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Speaker 5: think that when they see their four to one ks

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Speaker 5: lose value in the speed in which they did, they

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Speaker 5: start thinking to themselves, wait a minute, we have a

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Speaker 5: real confidence problem. And when investors lose confidence in the

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Speaker 5: leaders who are meant to kind of steer the ship,

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Speaker 5: that's when you get the sort of volatility, at least

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Speaker 5: the downward volatility that we've seen over the last week

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Speaker 5: and a half or so.

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Speaker 1: Some of this stuff Trump Blantz is not actually deliberable.

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the EU. He's very mad at the

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Speaker 1: EU for any number of reasons. He said that it

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Speaker 1: was set up to cheat the US. The EU has

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Speaker 1: a bunch of fees that are not really tariffs, but

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Speaker 1: that everyone has to pay.

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Speaker 2: He is very offended by this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, doesn't this seem like a situation that would

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Speaker 1: be theoretically at least impossible to win.

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Speaker 5: It would because he's trying to change tax policy in

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Speaker 5: these countries or this block, right, And that's one of

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Speaker 5: the things, is like it's one thing if you want

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Speaker 5: to impose tear it kind of even the playing field

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Speaker 5: as you think about, you know, you kind of being

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Speaker 5: disadvantaged in one way, shape or form. And obviously autos

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Speaker 5: is a big part of this. You know, the Germans

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Speaker 5: obviously produce a lot of automobiles. And he's pissed off

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Speaker 5: that we sell so much fewer, right cars into let's say,

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Speaker 5: the EU than the vice versa.

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Speaker 4: But they make better cars.

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Speaker 5: It's just that simple, right, And they make different cars

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Speaker 5: that have different you know, kind of sensibilities as it

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Speaker 5: relates to you know, size and power and all that

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Speaker 5: sort of stuff and energy consumption or whatever. So you know,

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Speaker 5: some of these things are just for him. He's locked

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Speaker 5: in the eighties and we know this, you know, when

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Speaker 5: the US was at this economic war over autos with

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Speaker 5: you know Japan and you know the Japanese. It's the

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Speaker 5: same sort of situation. He bitches and moans about that

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Speaker 5: there's no US cars you know on the on the

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Speaker 5: on the roads in Japan. Well, it's the same sort

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Speaker 5: of thing. They have different sensibilities, they make better cars.

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Speaker 5: Their people want to buy those cars. So a lot

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Speaker 5: of this stuff and I think you just said it,

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Speaker 5: and you know, he's looking through the lens of kind

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Speaker 5: of forty years ago. He creates problems, he tries to

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Speaker 5: create his own solutions so he can kind of, you know,

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Speaker 5: kind of I don't know, you know, suggest that he

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Speaker 5: got to win. So yeah, and it's just not working

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Speaker 5: with global trade. It's just, you know, the more globalization

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Speaker 5: we have, the more that we depend on each other,

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Speaker 5: you know, for manufacturing and parts and all this sort

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Speaker 5: of stuff, the harder it is to kind of put

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Speaker 5: these sort of economic barriers on because you do have

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Speaker 5: the potential for the sort of dislocation that the markets

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Speaker 5: are pricing in right now.

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Speaker 1: We have historically always had American guards and they're actually

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Speaker 1: really good.

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Speaker 2: But the problem is a lot of them are enormous.

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Speaker 1: So you're not going to be selling Chevy suburbans or

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Speaker 1: Chevy tahoes too small countries in Europe with tiny cobblestone streets.

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Speaker 1: It's just not going to happen. And I think that

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Speaker 1: is also a consideration. I'm curious this is, you know what.

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Speaker 1: There's also we talk a lot about those sort of

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Speaker 1: market numbers. But these tariffs, they're not even in effect yet, right,

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Speaker 1: and they're already making.

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Speaker 2: Things more expensive. Talk to me about where we're going

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Speaker 2: to see that. I was reading online that guyde work

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Speaker 2: where he's one of my favorites, and he was talking

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Speaker 2: about how surt's are even twenty thirty dollars more already.

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Speaker 2: Explain to us why trade wars are so inflationary.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, if

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Speaker 5: Trump is trying to convince US companies to reshore manufacturing, right,

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Speaker 5: and so if that really is you know, what they're

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Speaker 5: trying to do, then all of a sudden, you know,

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Speaker 5: demand here in the US, you know, for the manufacturing

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Speaker 5: of these factories is going to cause inflation.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 5: It's going to hit margins of companies that manufacture this

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Speaker 5: sort of stuff, So they're going to have to raise prices,

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Speaker 5: which is going to actually have an effect on demand.

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Speaker 5: Right when you think about that, So you get in

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Speaker 5: a situation where you can foresee that the dislocations of

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Speaker 5: supply chains which we saw during COVID made the price

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Speaker 5: of goods and services go up, right, So if you're

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Speaker 5: forcing US companies to bring back manufacturing here, there's no

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Speaker 5: other way that it's going to raise prices because of

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Speaker 5: all the costs to kind of reorient that, to retool

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Speaker 5: factories or build factories, to kind of hire workers here.

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Speaker 5: They're a lot more expensive here than they are in

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Speaker 5: Vietnam or China and the like here. So when you

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Speaker 5: think about all this in the near term, all this

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Speaker 5: uncertainty causes companies outside the idea of you know, reshoring

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Speaker 5: manufacturing to kind of slow up some other sort of

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Speaker 5: expenditures that they have, which is capax you know, outside

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Speaker 5: of manufacturing or R and D I'm in the like.

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Speaker 5: And so you get into a situation that we've talked

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Speaker 5: about for a while. If that slows growth right and

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Speaker 5: demand is weakened because of weakening economy, then you get

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Speaker 5: in the stagflationary sort of environment, which again is not

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Speaker 5: a good situation.

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Speaker 4: To be in.

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Speaker 5: We haven't been there since kind of the mid to

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Speaker 5: late seventies or so, and so again, what's different about

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Speaker 5: this time versus let's say the seventies, is just the

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Speaker 5: increased globalization, the reliance that we have on all of

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Speaker 5: these supply chains, whether it's manufacturing of cars here and

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Speaker 5: parts coming from Mexico or Canada, whether it's housing here

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Speaker 5: and the reliance on you know, lumber from Canada. I mean,

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Speaker 5: it's reliance on rare earth materials and electric batteries that

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Speaker 5: come from China into Tesla cars or other evs here

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Speaker 5: in the US, right, whether it's our reliance on energy

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Speaker 5: from those sorts of things. So if you have this

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Speaker 5: tip for Tad and you go back and forth with

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Speaker 5: your trading partners ratcheting up the taxes, and make no

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Speaker 5: mistake about it, these tariffs are on taxes, it's going

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Speaker 5: to cause inflation. And we know that inflation hurts the

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Speaker 5: middle class and lower earners here in the US. So

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Speaker 5: again that's the risk of causing consumer slow down and spending,

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Speaker 5: corporate slow down and spending based on all of this

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Speaker 5: demand for reshoring of manufacturing here, which you're going to

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Speaker 5: take a long time to do. It's going to take three, five,

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Speaker 5: ten years for a lot of this sort of stuff

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Speaker 5: to happen. And that's one of the reasons why you

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Speaker 5: see now the billionaire class. Ken Griffin one of the

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Speaker 5: richest men here in the US. He runs Citadel, which

438
00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 5: is one of the most successful hedge funds. He's out

439
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,680
Speaker 5: this morning suggesting that this is a horrible policy. We've

440
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,840
Speaker 5: seen this by a bunch of others, Stan Druckemiller, who's

441
00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 5: also one of the wealthiest men in the world, also

442
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,640
Speaker 5: a hedge funder. This is the sort of stuff that

443
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 5: might actually start to get into the thick skull of

444
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000
Speaker 5: Treasury Secretary Beston, who, by the way, used to work

445
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:17,119
Speaker 5: for drug a Miller.

446
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:18,120
Speaker 4: Right, so a lot of.

447
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:21,000
Speaker 5: These folks speak his language, but for some reason he's

448
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,919
Speaker 5: speaking the language of Trump, which gives you know, I

449
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 5: think it gives a CEO class and consumers less confidence

450
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 5: in the.

451
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,680
Speaker 1: Policies explained to us about stagflation, because we've talked about

452
00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: it a lot.

453
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 2: It's the nightmare scenario. Just give us two minutes on

454
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,240
Speaker 2: what it is and what it does.

455
00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, and so this goes back to the whole idea

456
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 5: of restoring or just increased costs that are you know,

457
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:43,600
Speaker 5: kind of put on a US consumer. Let's just focus

458
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 5: on the US here because of you know, these teriffs, right,

459
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 5: and then that causes a.

460
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 4: Slowing of growth. Right.

461
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 5: Two thirds of our GDP of our economy basically is

462
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 5: US consumer spending, which also speaks a little bit too,

463
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,880
Speaker 5: why we have these trade deficits. We are addicted to consuming, right,

464
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 5: We also like cheap goods. So if you have a

465
00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,880
Speaker 5: situation where growth is slowing, unemployment is going higher because

466
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,800
Speaker 5: of the tariffs, right, and you have inflation that's sticking

467
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 5: around for a lot of the same reasons, then you

468
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 5: get into the stagflationary environment, which actually hurts consumer spending.

469
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 5: Going back full circle here, and so it's just an

470
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 5: environment that if you're focused on investments, if you're focused

471
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 5: on your four oh one k, it will not be

472
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 5: good for us corporate earnings, which goes back to what

473
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 5: we were just talking about, which should be one of

474
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 5: the major drivers, right of the stock market. And so

475
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 5: stagflation bad for risk assets, bad for employment, bad for

476
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:45,159
Speaker 5: you know, like consumers who are trying to kind of

477
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,399
Speaker 5: keep a nest egg here. And so that's one of

478
00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 5: the situations where I think a lot of folks are

479
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 5: very worried about protracted trade war causing stagflation at a

480
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 5: time where we're worried about that last year before we

481
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 5: got into this trade war.

482
00:23:58,640 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 4: And so that's one of the reasons why I think

483
00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 4: a lot.

484
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 5: Of folks want to see a quick end to this.

485
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: Trade war and stagflation is sort of self perpetuating. Right.

486
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 1: Often in the recession, things will get cheaper, but this

487
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:13,520
Speaker 1: is a recession with inflation, so it means everything is

488
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: more expensive. Plus the economies in a downturn. Right, that's

489
00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: the night nurse scenario now.

490
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 5: And you might see the headline numbers of inflation come

491
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 5: in a little bit, especially as consumers have less buying

492
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 5: power and there's less demand for goods and services. But

493
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 5: you have to think of it now as the cumulative

494
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 5: nature of inflation over the last four years. You also

495
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 5: have to think about the fact that interest rates are

496
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,720
Speaker 5: likely to stay high to battle inflation, because the last

497
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,480
Speaker 5: thing they want to do is kind of go into

498
00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 5: a situation where inflation picks up a great deal at

499
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,320
Speaker 5: a time where going back to the growth where growth

500
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 5: is kind of weak. Right, So that's the push and

501
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 5: pull here. And the last thing I'll just say about

502
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 5: this is that in past recessionary environments, what the US

503
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 5: Federal Reserve would do is lower interest rates.

504
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: One thing Trump desperately wants and is trying to transmit.

505
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 5: He's trying to transmit that he doesn't have control over

506
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 5: the US Federal Reserve, which sets policy as it relates

507
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,160
Speaker 5: to interest rates. They don't want to lower interest rates

508
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:18,159
Speaker 5: because they feel like that could stoke inflation once again.

509
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 5: So the Trump administration has kind of backed themselves in

510
00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,960
Speaker 5: a corner coming out so aggressive on the terrace, because

511
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,560
Speaker 5: if they are not able to strike some sort of

512
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 5: deals right at this point, then there's really nothing that

513
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,679
Speaker 5: they can do because the Fed is most focused on

514
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 5: really keeping inflation at bay, and they're also really focused

515
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:38,080
Speaker 5: on the jobs market.

516
00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 4: They have a dual mandate.

517
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 5: It's stable prices, that's as you speak about inflation and

518
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 5: full employment, and they're worried about a recession causing employment

519
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,359
Speaker 5: to go basically much lower it Right now, you know,

520
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 5: the unemployment rate is really near lows at four point

521
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,959
Speaker 5: two percent or something like that. So the Fed has

522
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 5: a really tricky job and the White House has kind

523
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 5: of backed themselves in a corner. But they've also put

524
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 5: a lot of pressure on Fed shairpal to do something

525
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:04,600
Speaker 5: that he does not want to do.

526
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's really not up to Trump, it's really

527
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: up to the Fed. So we will see more push

528
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 1: and pull, and again I'm interesting to see everybody come

529
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: out against this.

530
00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: We'll see how it goes. Dan Nathan, thank you so much.

531
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 4: Thanks Molly. Great to be back with you.

532
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: John Allen is a senior national political reporter at NBC.

533
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:31,360
Speaker 1: Amy Parnis is a senior correspondent at The Hill, and

534
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Speaker 1: they are both the authors of Fight Inside the Wildest

535
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,840
Speaker 1: Battle for the White House. Welcome to Fast Politics, Amy and.

536
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: John, Thanks Molly, thank you. Let's talk about this book. Fight.

537
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: First of all, it starts with the debate that basically

538
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 1: changed everything.

539
00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: You get into people's heads.

540
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: You have a bunch of sort of different people who

541
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: are processing the debate. I know why you started there,

542
00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:01,240
Speaker 1: but I also want to know, like, as it was happening,

543
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,640
Speaker 1: because all of this just happened, were you guys like, oh,

544
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: this is where we're going to start this.

545
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 6: So interestingly, Molly, when the debate happened, we didn't even

546
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,560
Speaker 6: have a book deal. We were not planning to write

547
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 6: a book about this election. We wrote one about the

548
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen election. We were on about the twenty twenty election,

549
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 6: and we were off on a different project and this

550
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:21,959
Speaker 6: debate happens, and we had looked at this election as

551
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:23,480
Speaker 6: kind of I don't want to say.

552
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,360
Speaker 4: Dull, but maybe a little more doll.

553
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 6: I mean you've got Joe Biden running against Donald Trump

554
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:29,880
Speaker 6: in a rematch, and it.

555
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 2: Just wasn't Yeah, double haters.

556
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, that's right. It was the double hater election. Like

557
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 6: who's going to be least aided by the double haters?

558
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 6: And so when the debate happened, we didn't even know

559
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 6: we were going to write. And then, you know, a

560
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 6: week into the Democratic infighting, maybe ten days, the publisher

561
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,120
Speaker 6: called an asked us if we would do an election book,

562
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 6: and we were so like, we jumped out it. We

563
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 6: were like, absolutely, because whatever happens from now until November

564
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 6: is going to be the most electric, most intense, most

565
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 6: revealing period of American politics in our entire lives. And

566
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:03,800
Speaker 6: it turned out to be all of that.

567
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:05,159
Speaker 2: Do you think that's true?

568
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 4: Yeah?

569
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 6: Why would I say that if I didn't.

570
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: I'm just like thinking through sort of that's a bold statement,

571
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:12,959
Speaker 1: my friend.

572
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,359
Speaker 7: I mean, what election results in a candidate switch to

573
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 7: attempted assassinations? It was intense. We've covered quite a few

574
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 7: of these, John, and this was pretty much the most

575
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 7: intense one.

576
00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: Let's sort of go through writing this book. It's very

577
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: heavily reported, but then told in a sort of novelistic way.

578
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,119
Speaker 1: You know, it's funny because it's like the thing that

579
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: the right will seize on and they're not wrong to do.

580
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: It is just how out of it Biden was. Everything

581
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: I've read so far, it doesn't seem like there's a

582
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,800
Speaker 1: concerted cover up. It seems like there's a lot of

583
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 1: anxiety about his age. He's definitely sort of back and forth.

584
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: But it doesn't I don't quite see like the kind

585
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: of nefariousness.

586
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,959
Speaker 6: This is not written as a book about a cover up.

587
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 6: I do think that there's collective neglect. I do think

588
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 6: that there are decisions that put their own interests or

589
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 6: different sets of interests above, you know, either the Democratic

590
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 6: Party's interests or the country's interests. And I think for

591
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 6: most of the people in the Democratic Party they believe

592
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 6: the party's interests are the country's interests. I don't look

593
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 6: at this and say, here was this massive cover up

594
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 6: to sort of pretend there was a president who wasn't

595
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 6: fully there or anything like that. What I do think

596
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 6: is that if you are somebody who gets to the

597
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,959
Speaker 6: very top working for President Biden or really working for

598
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,720
Speaker 6: any other president, you're not the type of person that

599
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 6: raises your hand and says Hey, wait a second. Guys,

600
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,520
Speaker 6: you're not in the position where you're like, hey, wait

601
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 6: a second, maybe what we're doing is wrong here, or

602
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 6: maybe what we're doing here isn't going to work. Powerful

603
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,120
Speaker 6: people tend to surround themselves those sick events that and

604
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 6: even close family members become, you know, part of the ride.

605
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 4: This is the you know.

606
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 6: One person said to us that Mike Donellan, who is

607
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 6: basically the closest Biden advisor, explained why he was running

608
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 6: for reelection in the first place, and the answer was,

609
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 6: you know, nobody wants to give up the playing the

610
00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,280
Speaker 6: helicopter in the house. Further, the person that we were

611
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 6: talking to and their own view was not only was

612
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 6: the staff highly invested in trying to keep Biden in offices,

613
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 6: they were the best jobs they were going to ever have,

614
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 6: but that the first lady, Jill Biden, was you know,

615
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 6: doubly so invested in you know, this is the best

616
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 6: thing that's going to be there for her. And frankly,

617
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 6: I think Joe Biden, whether accurate or delusional or whatever,

618
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 6: like I think Joe Biden truly believed he was the

619
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 6: only person who could beat Donald Trump. Like I don't

620
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,200
Speaker 6: think that's fake. I think he really believes it. I

621
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 6: think he believed it even after the debate where everyone

622
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 6: in the Democratic Party realized that there was a problem,

623
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 6: and you know, long after I think most of the

624
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 6: Republican Party realized that there was a problem.

625
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,640
Speaker 7: Though he could win even after the election, right, No,

626
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 7: he said that, yeah, yeah, I read that part about

627
00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 7: the First Lady had wanted him not to run and

628
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 7: written on her stomach no.

629
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 2: But there was like a huge changeover Will you explain that.

630
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was two thousand and four, and so over

631
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 6: twenty years, you know, her huge change that I think

632
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 6: being first Lady was a pretty good deal. And in

633
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:11,480
Speaker 6: two thousand and four she had a variety of sets

634
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 6: of reasons for why she didn't want him to run.

635
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 6: But by twenty twenty four, as they're running for reelection,

636
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 6: it means giving up a lot if he doesn't run.

637
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 6: And by the way, I think one of the interesting

638
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 6: things that you see in this book, and one of

639
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 6: our sources called it the quote unquote original sin, is

640
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 6: that there was no discussion about whether Biden should seek reelection.

641
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 6: It was about Owen when he would announce. You know,

642
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 6: he decided in his mind he was going to run

643
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 6: for reelection. There was no real debate internally within the

644
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 6: inner circle about doing that, and he set his party

645
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 6: and himself on a course that I think, you know,

646
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 6: all of them are disappointed with now, and put himself

647
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 6: in it, I think, a vulnerable position. I mean, anybody

648
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,160
Speaker 6: that watched that debate, it's hard not to feel sympathy,

649
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 6: you know, in that moment of him struggling so mightily,

650
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,160
Speaker 6: and in other moments that we'd seen before that, but

651
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 6: not in quite such dramatic fashion, And in other moments

652
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 6: that we've seen since that, again not in quite so

653
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 6: dramatic fashion.

654
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:08,960
Speaker 1: And what I thought was interesting, what you had in there,

655
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 1: was that there was really no love lost between Obama

656
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:13,440
Speaker 1: and Biden.

657
00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: Will you talk about that.

658
00:32:14,680 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 7: It's a very interesting relationship that they have. You know,

659
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 7: they were close when they were partners after the Obama administration,

660
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 7: actually before it ended. He wanted to run for president

661
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 7: but president and Obama at the time preferred Hillary Clinton,

662
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 7: and that caused a lot of tension. Obama's aid sort

663
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 7: of pretty much told Biden at the time that he

664
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 7: shouldn't run, and Biden remembered it and wrote about it

665
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 7: in his book, And you know, so it starts there,

666
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 7: but fast forward to this election. I think President Obama

667
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 7: doesn't think that his former vice president now president is

668
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 7: a good candidate. We report in the book that he

669
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 7: talks to Nancy Pelosi several times to figure out what

670
00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 7: to do about him post debate. We also report that

671
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 7: he has his own conversation with Joe Biden where he's

672
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 7: not telling him to leave the race, but he's kind

673
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 7: of prodding and asking him questions and seeing what his

674
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:14,920
Speaker 7: plan is, and the relationship remains pretty divisive. I think

675
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 7: to this day.

676
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: One of the really interesting parts is that George Clooney

677
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: is somehow and again you saw that with the op ed,

678
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 1: but he's sort of had this sense that there's something off.

679
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 7: Yes, So the whole George Clooney thing, really it happens

680
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 7: also around the time that Nancy Pelosi's out there kind

681
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 7: of saying that Biden had a decision to make. George

682
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 7: Clooney comes out with this letter. The Biden campaign knew

683
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,800
Speaker 7: about it, and they were trying to kind of put

684
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:46,959
Speaker 7: the cabash on it for a couple of days. They

685
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 7: have Jeffrey Katzenberg reach out and try to kill it,

686
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:54,040
Speaker 7: but it ends up running and that was really one

687
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 7: of the I think it was one of the nails

688
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 7: in the coffin.

689
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 1: Right, there's sort of a group with the George Clooney

690
00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: Obama crew. It does seem to me like the takeaway

691
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 1: from this is that Democrats were not harsh enough with

692
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 1: their own that they sort of let him keep going

693
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 1: even when they had doubts.

694
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 2: Do you think that's correct?

695
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 4: Correct?

696
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,000
Speaker 6: But I also think that it's very difficult to get

697
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 6: a sitting president to step aside or to have a

698
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 6: real primary process. You know, the DNC and the White

699
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:29,479
Speaker 6: House work to change the primary calendar to put South

700
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 6: Carolina first so that anybody that was going to try

701
00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,120
Speaker 6: to beat Biden would have to basically beat him in

702
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 6: his best state starting out out of the gate. I mean,

703
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 6: there were a lot of moves made to protect the president,

704
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 6: which is not and when they say that, I mean

705
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,480
Speaker 6: politically protect him, which is not unusual. It's not unusual

706
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 6: for the president's team to find a way for them,

707
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 6: the best way for the to win reelection. I do think,

708
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,399
Speaker 6: Molly that like there are these scenes in the backstabbing,

709
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 6: all that stuff. It's very exciting for the news headlines

710
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 6: and for the clips and and we obviously are willing

711
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 6: to talk about all that stuff. I do think what

712
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 6: you get out of this book is you start to

713
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,799
Speaker 6: get a sense of which of the leaders in the

714
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 6: Democratic Party, which are the people in the Democratic Party

715
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 6: put their party in their country above their own interests,

716
00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 6: and those who let their own interests become more important

717
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,719
Speaker 6: than what they thought what collectively the Democratic Party thought,

718
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 6: and by that I mean the voters thought was the

719
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 6: biggest thing here, which was to prevent Donald Trump from

720
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 6: becoming president of the United States.

721
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 4: And you can.

722
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 6: See how these jealousies, these ambitions.

723
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: So tell us who those people are.

724
00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 6: One of the things that comes out of this book

725
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 6: is that Nancy Pelosi is probably the person in the

726
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,240
Speaker 6: Democratic Party who is best at identifying what the interests

727
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 6: of the party. And again, you know what Democrats believe

728
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 6: were the interests of the country above her own interests.

729
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 6: She didn't want to get in a fight with Joe Biden.

730
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 6: She really likes and cares about Joe Biden. She didn't

731
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,640
Speaker 6: want to be seen as being in a cabal to

732
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 6: take him out. She didn't want her fingerprints at the

733
00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 6: scene of the crime. And at the same time, she

734
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 6: belie believe that he needed to get out of the race.

735
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,680
Speaker 6: She helped that along, and she took on a role

736
00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 6: that so many of her colleagues were just unwilling to do.

737
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,840
Speaker 6: I mean, you know, you talk to members of Congress.

738
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 6: We would talk to members of converse anonymously and they say, yeah,

739
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 6: Biden's got to get out, But they wouldn't call for

740
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 6: him to get out because they were worried about dividing

741
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 6: the Democrats in their own districts and in their own

742
00:36:19,719 --> 00:36:22,680
Speaker 6: states and hurting themselves for reelection. You know, you go

743
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 6: through the various characters. Joe Biden wants to hold on

744
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 6: to power so much so that even when he gets

745
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 6: out of the race three and a half weeks after

746
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 6: a debate performance that I think most people believed should

747
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 6: have been disqualifying. When he gets out of the race,

748
00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 6: he pushes Kamala Harris to not run her own race,

749
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,800
Speaker 6: to not distance herself for things that aren't working for

750
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 6: his campaign and break apart. He keeps telling her no daylight, kid,

751
00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 6: that there can't be any daylight between them. And by

752
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,400
Speaker 6: the way, he's still the sitting president of the United States,

753
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 6: So there's any inherent or an implicit threaten that that

754
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,959
Speaker 6: if she gets too far away from him, he's gonna

755
00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,959
Speaker 6: punish her for it, you know, or come out again

756
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,600
Speaker 6: InTru in some way. You know, he made her beg

757
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 6: for an immediate endorsement because he wanted to bask in

758
00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 6: the glory of his exit and take a victory lap

759
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 6: and talk about how he was like George Washington when

760
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 6: she really needed an immediate endorsement from him to lock

761
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 6: down the delegates to get the nomination, which eventually happened,

762
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 6: but only and we report in detail on this conversation,

763
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,839
Speaker 6: two conversations between them on the day that he gets

764
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 6: out where he's basically saying, I'm not going to endorse

765
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 6: you for a while, and she's like, you got to

766
00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 6: endorse me now, and eventually he does it. But I

767
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,000
Speaker 6: think you can see in that like a with that

768
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 6: set of people, you know, where the loyalties and the

769
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 6: ambitions and and the selflessness. I think that there's there

770
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 6: are rare acts of selflessness in this story. You get

771
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,839
Speaker 6: to see that in those people. And I also think

772
00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 6: that it's an important lesson for voters to see the

773
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 6: difference between you know, what some of these public officials

774
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 6: are saying, some of these party leaders are saying out

775
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 6: in public and what they are saying behind the scenes,

776
00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,760
Speaker 6: and the gulf between what the voters need and should

777
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:58,759
Speaker 6: be demanding from their leaders in terms of honesty and

778
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 6: fidelity to parties goals and what is actually going on.

779
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 6: And so as you look forward to twenty twenty eight

780
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 6: and the twenty twenty mid Times, I think there are

781
00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 6: just a lot of lessons here for voters in terms

782
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 6: of grassroots donors and activists in terms of what do

783
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 6: they need to be seeing from their candidates. Who's going

784
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 6: to put the interests of the public put the interests

785
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 6: of the party voters first?

786
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 2: What were the sort of worst hipocrisies you saw?

787
00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 6: I guess the way that I would put it is

788
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:26,959
Speaker 6: that less hipocrisy and more gas lighting.

789
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: Okay, so what was the worst case of gas lighting

790
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:30,760
Speaker 1: that you report in the book.

791
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:31,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

792
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,160
Speaker 6: So, by the way, this is reporting in the book,

793
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 6: this isn't our objective analysis. I mean, right after the debate,

794
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 6: the campaign leadership team is meeting with the national finance

795
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,439
Speaker 6: team for the campaign in a hotel in Atlanta where

796
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 6: the debate was the next morning, and a campaign leadership

797
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 6: is telling all the donors everything's spine. There was nothing

798
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 6: really wrong with Joe Biden. It was a bad night,

799
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:52,400
Speaker 6: and their donors are like, like, what the fuck are

800
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,680
Speaker 6: you talking about? It backfired, like the whole exercise in

801
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 6: you know, you have to repeat our talking points and

802
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 6: believe what we're telling you instead of what you saw

803
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 6: with your own eyes. I mean, it just totally backfired

804
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 6: on the campaign. You know, we talked to people in

805
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,760
Speaker 6: the campaign who felt like their leadership, with the leadership

806
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 6: of the campaign was gaslighting the lower level campaign people

807
00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 6: about Joe Biden's standing about Kamala Harris is standing. David

808
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:19,239
Speaker 6: Pluff went out and told the country that she was

809
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 6: going to win seven swing states. Kamala Harris believed on

810
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 6: election night, we report on you know, we go into

811
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 6: the Vice President's residence on election night. You know, a

812
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,760
Speaker 6: conversation she's having and the feeling she's having as she's

813
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,800
Speaker 6: crestfallen because she's shocked. She thought she was in position

814
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 6: to win. Yeah, and then she loses. And I don't

815
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:39,120
Speaker 6: want to spoil the end of the book, but you know,

816
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 6: let's just say that she felt gas lit.

817
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 7: Too, and so did Tim Walls. By the way, we

818
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 7: also take you inside his hotel room and he's sitting

819
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 7: there and doesn't know what to say. His wife has

820
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 7: to talk because he can't find the words.

821
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 1: One of the things that I noticed, just from my

822
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: own experience of this campaign was that they were pretty

823
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: afraid of their own shadow and unwilling to engage with

824
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:07,400
Speaker 1: I mean, you could see this just clearly, like unwilling

825
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: to engage in podcasts and social media and just very

826
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: sort of locked down. Did you see this? And also

827
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 1: do you think that this is some of why they lost?

828
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, And you know, they were criticized by Itt Molly

829
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 7: coming out of the convention. You know a lot of

830
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 7: people thought that they were just running out the clock

831
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 7: at the time and that they didn't have to do

832
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 7: any media interviews. And at the same time, you're seeing

833
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 7: Donald Trump going on various podcasts everything, doing all of it.

834
00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 7: And you know, we report in the book that she

835
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 7: does try to go on Rogan's podcasts, but it turns

836
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 7: into this whole you know, like they're negotiating back and

837
00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 7: forth and Rogan is coming back and maybe his people

838
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 7: aren't being as forthcoming as they should be. They're negotiating

839
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 7: and it never amounts to anything. She ends up moving

840
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 7: a whole entire rally to Texas so she can be

841
00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 7: in the place where Rogan is and that doesn't happen. Meanwhile,

842
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 7: Trump is everywhere, as you said, and he is relying

843
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 7: on his son Baron, which we report in the book.

844
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 7: Baron is giving guidance to him on how to reach

845
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 7: these younger people and it ends up being really successful

846
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:16,319
Speaker 7: for him.

847
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: Just tell me one last thing. Do you think that

848
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: this consultant class around Harris should be in charge of

849
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: other elections for Democrats? Do you think they made good decisions?

850
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:32,760
Speaker 6: I think that the term consultant class kind of nails

851
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 6: at Molly.

852
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: I'm thinking the precision strategy crew that came in from

853
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:38,400
Speaker 1: Pluff to Cutter.

854
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,879
Speaker 6: Yeah, no, I know, David Pluff and Stephanie Stephanie Kenner dept.

855
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 6: For O'Malley Dillon. You know, look, we say this in

856
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 6: the book about about O'Malley Dillon. It's interesting she chooses

857
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 6: to run this campaign, which most people would not have

858
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 6: done usually if you want a campaign, and she was

859
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 6: a campaign manager for twenty twenty, which I think was

860
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 6: a lot closer than a lot of Democrats wanted to

861
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 6: think about. Out of forty four thousand votes over three

862
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 6: states in the electoral College. Most of them, you know,

863
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 6: were like, I'm going to go off on a high

864
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 6: note and I'm not going to risk losing my second election.

865
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 6: She made a different decision there, and I think that

866
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 6: that was at least in large part due to feeling

867
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 6: some loyalty to the president and thinking she'd be good

868
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 6: at it, right. But yeah, I think they make bad decisions,

869
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 6: and I think they make bad decisions that are just

870
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 6: jaw dropping. And I'll give you an example from the book.

871
00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 6: And this is not The reason that this is important

872
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 6: is not necessarily the impact of the episode itself, but

873
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 6: just how it's so emblematic of the problem. The transad

874
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 6: that the Trump campaign ran, which had video of Kamala

875
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 6: Harris endorsing the state of California paying for trans surgery

876
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 6: for illegal immigrants in prison or you know who have

877
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:48,239
Speaker 6: been in prison in California, that ends with the tagline,

878
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 6: Kamala Harris is for they them, President Trump is for you.

879
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:54,279
Speaker 6: That's the most effective political ad I've ever seen. The

880
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 6: first time I saw it, I was like, this is

881
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 6: unbelievably effective. I can't imagine a better set of issues

882
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 6: for them to hammer her on in SOMs of it's

883
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,799
Speaker 6: like a perfect blight, three or four issues that are

884
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 6: intertwined there with imprisoned immigrants and transsurgery and the them

885
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,360
Speaker 6: versus you, I mean, the whole thing, and an economic

886
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 6: issue because the state's paying for it. But we report

887
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 6: that Bill Clinton saw this ad on the campaign trail

888
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:21,480
Speaker 6: and he called everyone he could find to say, please

889
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,719
Speaker 6: respond to this ad. This is killing her. People are

890
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,440
Speaker 6: talking to me about it on rope lines. I just

891
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,319
Speaker 6: keep hearing about this trans ad. Please respond. And the

892
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,879
Speaker 6: answer he got back from the campaign brass and at

893
00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 6: this point Harris campaign. But it's the same people that

894
00:43:36,360 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 6: were running the Biden campaign. The answer they got back

895
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 6: is we tested that ad, and we tested possible responses.

896
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,359
Speaker 6: Our data shows us that it's not that effective. It's

897
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 6: not that big of a deal. This way of thinking,

898
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 6: we're like, you're so tied.

899
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 2: To data that does nothing for you, and that's been wrong.

900
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 6: I was just going to say, you're making strategic decisions

901
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,400
Speaker 6: that are so fundamentally at odds with like what anybody

902
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 6: who knows anything about politics would believe based on incremental

903
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 6: differences in your data.

904
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: So interesting, you guys, I'm sorry we ran along, John Amy,

905
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,000
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you.

906
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 3: They're no momental secretly, Jesse Cannon my junk fast. So

907
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:26,479
Speaker 3: we have had Justice Allison Riggs on this podcast many

908
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: times because this is a thing that you and I

909
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:31,879
Speaker 3: find very alarming in how a little coverage it gets. Well,

910
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,839
Speaker 3: the Supreme Court has gotten involved with her race, which

911
00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 3: is the last race to be decided of the twenty

912
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:41,760
Speaker 3: twenty four election, and it is fucking April.

913
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, so basically, the Republican you are lost, and the

914
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: Republicans have decided that if they lose sometimes they just

915
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,879
Speaker 1: decide that they're going to not go along with it,

916
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 1: and they're going to demand recan after recann after recant. Now,

917
00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 1: Judge Griffin has cea dismissed the ballots cast by sixty

918
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,480
Speaker 1: five thousand people. He has argued that a majority of

919
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: them were ineligible to vote because they did not supply

920
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 1: certain required identifications.

921
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 2: This is what Republicans do.

922
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: This is all, by the way, caused by Donald Trump's

923
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:19,160
Speaker 1: twenty twenty election, where he was like, I didn't win

924
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,360
Speaker 1: and so it was not fair.

925
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:22,839
Speaker 2: You will see more of this.

926
00:45:23,280 --> 00:45:27,080
Speaker 1: It is just incredibly fucked up, and that is why

927
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 1: it is our moment of fuckery.

928
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:30,560
Speaker 2: That's it for.

929
00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:37,279
Speaker 1: This episode of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday,

930
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: and Saturday to hear the best minds and politics make

931
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: sense of all this chaos. If you enjoy this podcast,

932
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:49,280
Speaker 1: please send it to a friend and keep the conversation going.

933
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.