WEBVTT - Alan M. Garber 0:00:02.840 --> 0:00:05.640 The oldest university of the United States is Harvard University. 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:08.280 It's also one of the most respected universities of the United States, 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.200 but recently there's been some challenges by the federal government 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.000 the way Harvard is operating. I had a chance recently 0:00:14.040 --> 0:00:16.880 to sit down with Alan Garber, the president of Harvard University, 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.320 to talk about the challenge of the federal government now 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:23.240 faces and the challenges of American higher education. Harvard is 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:26.920 the America's oldest university, founded in sixteen thirty six. It's 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:29.960 very famous university, maybe the most famous university in the world. 0:00:30.840 --> 0:00:34.159 But recently it's been in the news because Harvard sued 0:00:34.240 --> 0:00:37.640 the federal government, which was a very unusual thing for 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:40.720 Harvard to do. Why did Harvard sue the federal government 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.240 and what's the status of that case. 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:45.920 I can only tell you a little bit about the 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:50.160 status of the case except what's publicly known, which is 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:55.560 that we received a favorable law of judgment in district court. 0:00:55.560 --> 0:00:59.720 And I think you're referring to the lawsuit in which 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:05.040 we alleged First Amendment violations as well as procedural violations 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:09.000 by the federal government when they cut off our funding 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:14.560 and we sued because they cut off our funding. We 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:17.560 should be very clear about that. It was done in 0:01:17.600 --> 0:01:23.319 a precipitous manner without any real process. We really had 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.400 no choice because we had hundreds of millions of dollars 0:01:27.840 --> 0:01:30.400 at stake. And I want to point out one other thing. 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:35.320 This was not in the form of gifts or subsidies. 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:40.520 It was payment for research that we were performing at 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:44.039 the behest of the federal government. We were fulfilling our 0:01:44.080 --> 0:01:48.240 obligations under the terms of the grants and contracts that 0:01:48.280 --> 0:01:49.480 the federal government issued. 0:01:49.640 --> 0:01:51.600 So how much money was frozen. 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:53.720 It's a little bit hard to be precise, but on 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:55.400 the order of six hundred million dollars. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:59.240 Six hundred million was frozen. Some of that has now 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:02.920 come back to Harvard or yes, So to make up 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:06.040 the gap, is Harvard getting that money and giving it 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:08.440 to the people doing the research out of its own funds, 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.799 or you have special fundraising, or how do you make 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:11.480 up the gap. 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.720 There was a long period in which we did not 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:20.280 have the funding, and the Central University used its resources 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:25.200 to help the investigators continue at least some of their work, 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.079 not all of the work could be funded by the 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:31.480 university and the schools that are part of the university. 0:02:31.639 --> 0:02:35.760 What's important to recognize is that there was very critical 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.640 work that could not be stopped, but we could not 0:02:38.760 --> 0:02:41.760 really afford to make up for all of the loss 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.320 money from the federal government. 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.040 Now people sometimes say, well, Harvard has an endowment that's 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.480 let's say, over fifty billion dollars, so you have plenty 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:50.040 of money. Why couldn't you just take some of that 0:02:50.080 --> 0:02:52.000 fifty billion dollars in use it for the research. 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.880 Well, of course, the endowment is a very important source 0:02:56.160 --> 0:03:00.880 of revenue. One thing that it is important to realize 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:06.080 about the endowment is that it's heavily restricted. So, for example, 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:11.880 we have funds to pay for individual professorships, we have 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:16.000 funds that are dedicated to a particular research center. Funds 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.760 of that kind they cannot be used for other purposes. 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.080 So that's one restriction that makes it very hard to 0:03:22.120 --> 0:03:26.920 treat this like some giant piggybank where we can take 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.160 out funds when we need them on a rainy day. 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:33.320 There is a second consideration as well, which is that 0:03:34.360 --> 0:03:37.400 most of the terms under which people gave money for 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.960 the endowment include an obligation that this should be sustainable, 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:45.600 and what that really means is that future generations should 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:49.200 have access to the same resources that we have today, 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:53.200 so that limits how rapidly you can spend from the endowment. 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.480 There's an endowment tax that was put in under the 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:59.760 first Trump administration and it was increased in this current administration. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.560 Do you see any real justification for that tax and 0:04:03.680 --> 0:04:06.480 is it impacting Harvard adversely or other schools like Harvard 0:04:06.960 --> 0:04:08.080 the endowment text. 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:14.520 Clearly, it's a substantial text, particularly for universities like Harvard 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:19.600 that are expected to be in the top tier. And 0:04:19.680 --> 0:04:24.680 of course it's damaging because, for example, so much of 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.200 our financial aid, the scholarships that we give our students 0:04:28.240 --> 0:04:32.719 are funded through the endowment, and it funds the research, 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.159 it funds all kinds of activities in the university. So yes, 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:42.480 it's quite damaging in terms of addressing the problems that 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.039 we are accused of, and that I believe was part 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:51.480 of the rationale for passing the endowment text. The tax 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.799 is only going to make it harder to address these issues, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:56.320 not easier. 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.120 In the early days, Harvard and most universities and I say, 0:04:59.160 --> 0:05:01.880 didn't get money from the federal government. After World War Two, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:06.080 the federal government dramatically increased amount of money given to 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:09.279 universities for research. Do you think that was a good 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:11.320 thing for the US government to do that, and you 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.159 think the universities became too dependent on the federal government, 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:17.040 or you think they benefited and it's really been good 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:17.960 for the country to do this. 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:22.360 The period that you're referring to was really set into 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:28.160 motion by a report by Vineva Bush, who had written 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:33.279 a book called The Endless Frontier, and he argued that 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.400 it would be more efficient for the federal government to 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.760 support research by working with universities than pursuing more of 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:45.800 a European style model where there would be independent research 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:50.240 institutes the federal government would pay for everything. That's what 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:55.640 set in motion what became a real boom in innovation 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.360 in science and technology in the United States. I would 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:02.880 add that in addition to the funding that went to 0:06:02.960 --> 0:06:07.920 universities to conduct research, the country benefited from an influx 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:11.520 of immigrants who are some of the greatest scientists in 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:16.120 the world, largely in the post war period, and actually 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:21.120 during the war and just before the war, largely European scientists. 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:26.040 That combination made the US the world leader in science 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:27.000 and technology. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:29.200 Well in the early part of the twentieth century. If 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:31.440 one were to say what were the greatest universities in 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.719 the world, the United States might not have had the 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.359 top universities. Is that because the federal government has been 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:39.320 supporting and also because the endowments have grown. 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:41.880 I would say it's solid the above. But I would 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:47.039 also say that we have had, over the past many 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:52.000 decades a relentless focus on attracting the best talent in 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:57.040 the entire world. It takes resources, but the resources not 0:06:57.080 --> 0:07:01.359 only financial. The resources are human resources. And we have 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:07.680 done an amazing job in attracting great talent from all 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.480 of the world. So that combination is what enabled the 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:13.120 US to be so successful. 0:07:13.320 --> 0:07:19.120 Harvard was sued for discriminating on admissions ultimately went to 0:07:19.160 --> 0:07:23.040 the Supreme Court. Supreme Court ruled against Harvard. How has 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.680 Harvard changed its admissions policies to conform with what the 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:28.360 Supreme Court now says as the law. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:35.200 Well, we had announced in the first official communication upon 0:07:35.320 --> 0:07:38.040 the release of the Supreme Court's decision that we would 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.400 adhere to the law, not change our values and principles, 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.440 but we would certainly adhere to the law. The specific 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.520 measures that we've taken have been many. We've made sure 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:53.400 that in the admissions process, nobody involved in making a 0:07:53.480 --> 0:07:57.240 decision about admissions has access to the check the box 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:02.440 what's your race, what's your ethnicity, etc. So they don't 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:05.520 have access to that information. Of course, there's an interview 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.560 in an essay, aspects of identity will come out, but 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.880 we do not have We do not provide that information 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:19.559 to the admissions officers where people identify, and I would 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.080 add that we train them to make sure that they 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:29.520 don't consider these characteristics that are prohibited from consideration in 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:31.840 through the SFFA decision. 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:35.240 You're talking about immigrants and how the major universities have 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:37.240 brought a lot of immigrants over and they were great 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:42.040 faculty members and researchers. What about getting foreign students today 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:46.559 to American universities. Do you actually feel that foreign students 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.160 are now afraid to apply because of visa problems or 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:50.719 they think they won't get in because there's going to 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:53.440 be some discrimination against foreign students. How has the whole 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:56.760 concern and watching about foreign students and foreign faculty affected 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:57.560 at Harvard. 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:03.040 For many programs, there is a lot of hesitancy about 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:07.280 initiate about attending college or attending graduate school in the 0:09:07.400 --> 0:09:11.760 US because of uncertainty about visa status and whether that 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:15.480 could be taken away. At the same time, this year 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:19.960 we've had a lot of success and the students who 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.640 were actually admitted virtually from other countries, virtually all of 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.080 them have been able to attend. So it's too early 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.400 to have a confident answer your question, but we are worried, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:34.840 and I want to say one other thing. They aren't 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:39.600 strictly speaking students, but postdocts. That is, the postdoctoral fellows 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:43.800 who work in our labs, in the hospitals and in 0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:48.400 other parts of the university. There is some evidence that 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.839 fewer of them are applying for jobs in the US. 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.960 The hostages have now come back in Israel, but it 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.439 was the events that led to the hostage being taken 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.360 and all the people who were killed on Over the 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:04.880 seventh that led to protests on campuses. Harvard and other 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:09.600 universities had encampments and other types of protests. What has 0:10:09.640 --> 0:10:13.240 Harvard done since that time to address the concerns that 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:17.120 some people have that Harvard was not sufficiently dealing with 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.960 anti Semitism, or that Harvard's ability to let people protest 0:10:21.120 --> 0:10:22.199 wasn't appropriate. 0:10:22.360 --> 0:10:23.960 How have you changed things, if at all. 0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:28.000 We've done a lot to address these issues. And one 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:32.319 of the challenges we face from beginning concerning the protests 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.160 is that people claimed that our rules were unclear what's 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:40.839 permissible in a protest, and so one of the first 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.359 things we did is to develop a set of guidelines. 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:49.760 Basically that drew upon a document called the University Statement 0:10:49.800 --> 0:10:53.640 on Rights and Responsibilities, which is created in the early seventies. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:59.640 That outlined how we protect protests but also enabled the 0:11:00.200 --> 0:11:02.960 of our community to carry on their work without disruption. 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:07.320 So we provided some clarity there for anti Semitism and 0:11:07.400 --> 0:11:11.080 also for the complaints that we heard about anti Muslim, 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:17.560 anti Arab, anti Palestinian incidents. I created two presidential task 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:21.120 forces to study the issues and make a set of recommendations. 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:27.240 Both of those task forces took their work very seriously. 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.160 It took a lot of time, but they gathered data, 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.439 they did hundreds upon hundreds of interviews, and then they 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.800 came up with a very lengthy set of recommendations, which 0:11:37.240 --> 0:11:41.880 we have implemented. We're well on the way to implement those. 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.320 So you're the thirty first president of Harvard University. You 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.360 were Harvard undergraduate. Did you ever think when you were 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:50.640 Harvard undergraduated you wind up as president university someday. 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:53.640 Well, back those days, we would have said, what are 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:54.280 you smoking. 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:59.560 Let's talk about your background for a moment. Where were 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:01.720 you born. 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:03.560 In Illinois, Western Illinois. 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.600 And your parents were they Harvard graduates? 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.560 Well, my father didn't go to college and my mother 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:12.280 went to the University of Wisconsin. 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.400 So when you're growing up, did people say, Helen is 0:12:16.440 --> 0:12:18.440 really really smart, he should go to Harvard. Did you 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:21.840 always think you were really talented as an academic kid 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:23.400 in high school and you knew you were going to 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:25.840 get into Harvard. 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:28.680 If people said I was a really talented kid and 0:12:28.679 --> 0:12:31.920 I should go to Harvard, they didn't say it to me. Okay, 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:34.920 I was a good student. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:36.360 What class were you at Harvard? 0:12:37.720 --> 0:12:40.600 Well, I entered with the class of nineteen seventy seven, 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:43.840 so I started in nineteen seventy three. 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:46.080 Were any prominent people in your class? 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:50.559 It may sound like I'm bragging. There are a lot 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:53.040 of alumni here in the audience, and I bet every 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.200 one of them is proud of their class. But here 0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:59.280 let me brag about my classmates. The person whose face 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:03.800 was beneath mine in the freshman Facebook was Bill Gates? 0:13:04.559 --> 0:13:09.559 What happened to him? He dropped out? Dropped out? 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:12.120 When he dropped out, you'd think you ever hear of 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:12.520 him again? 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:14.440 Yeah, I'd say. 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:19.160 Some of us have heard from him. Steve Baumber, the 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:23.360 Chief Justice Supreme Court, John Roberts, a pretty good class 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.760 other university presidents. There's a lot of Moia names in. 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.200 So it normally takes four years to graduate from college. 0:13:30.559 --> 0:13:31.679 How many years did it take you? 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:32.840 Three? 0:13:33.200 --> 0:13:33.600 Three? 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.319 So you after three years, what do you decide you 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:37.760 want to do? You go to graduate school? Do you 0:13:37.800 --> 0:13:40.240 want to do something important like private equity, going to 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:40.920 business school? 0:13:41.040 --> 0:13:42.560 Or you didn't want to do that? What did you 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:43.199 want to do? Well? 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:46.440 I couldn't make up my mind. So I did. I 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:49.000 did a PhD in economics and an MD. 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.280 PhD in economics and an MD. But the PhD economics 0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:56.800 was at Harvard, the MD was at Stanford. So wasn't 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.760 that by coastal a little bit difficult? 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:03.120 I had a great experience studying economics at Harvard. I 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:06.599 had done enough for the graduate courses at Harvard and 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:10.240 that I could shorten the time it took to get 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:13.240 a PhD. And what I learned in the applications process 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:18.040 is that other PhD programs would not recognize they would 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:19.880 not give me credit for the Harvard courses. 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.800 So you got an MD from Stanford, a PhD from Harvard. 0:14:24.000 --> 0:14:26.280 What led you back to Stanford? You taught at Stanford, 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:26.760 is that right? 0:14:27.080 --> 0:14:27.360 Yes? 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:28.600 For twenty five years? 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.000 Twenty five years. So you're living in California. The weather 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.560 is very good, it's a beautiful campus. What propelled you 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.120 after twenty five years to come back to the East 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:40.200 Coast to be the provost at Harvard. 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.320 Well, I think a lot of people in this audience 0:14:43.440 --> 0:14:45.640 know Drew Faust, and let me just tell you she's 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:51.480 a very persuasive person. And I was chair of the 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:55.440 committee to visit the Harvard Medical School and Harvard School 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.400 of Dental Medicine. That's how I met Drew, and it 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:03.080 brought me back here about once a year. And it 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:08.600 was through that that I met her and she asked 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:10.960 me if i'd be interested in looking at the job 0:15:11.000 --> 0:15:14.920 of provost when it opened up. My initial answer was no, 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:17.880 but somehow she got me to change. 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.520 Okay, so you came back as provost and Drew Faust 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:24.720 and then when Drew retired, Larry backhow became the president 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:28.360 of Harvard and you stayed as the provost, that's right. 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:31.320 And then when Claudine Gay became the president of Harvard, 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.440 you stayed as the provost. So how many years were 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:34.880 you the provost at Harvard? 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:36.240 Twelve and a half. 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.080 And for people that don't know what a provost is, 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:41.239 what actually do you do when you're a provost? 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.600 The provost is the number two officer of the university 0:15:47.720 --> 0:15:52.720 and the chief academic officer at Harvard. It's a relatively 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:56.000 new role. There was a provost briefly at the end 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.680 of World War Two because President Conant was in Washington, 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.640 was kind of around the university, very temporary arrangement, but 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.840 it really started in modern times in nineteen ninety one. 0:16:08.280 --> 0:16:13.400 It's a job that expanded pretty much monotonically over time. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.840 And when I took on the job, the provost was 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.680 responsible for all of the inter faculty initiatives. The deans 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:24.520 reported to both the president and the provost, and the 0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:28.800 provosts had a huge role in faculty appointments and promotion. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.440 And Claudingay stepped down as president, you were put in 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:34.760 as the interim president of Harvard, and now you're the 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.840 president of Harvard. What's the pleasure of being the president 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:38.320 of Harvard. 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:42.240 I was asked on January first to step in as 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:47.200 interim president on January second, and I knew that being 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.600 provost was a pretty demanding job pretty much twenty four 0:16:50.640 --> 0:16:53.680 to seven and I was about to do two jobs. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:56.920 There were twenty four to seven until I could put 0:16:56.960 --> 0:17:00.760 a new provost in place. So there's just the sheer 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:04.440 volume of work was daunting. And then there's the fact 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:06.800 that we were in a crisis that we were under 0:17:06.800 --> 0:17:10.640 at Tech. My answer in normal times would be, these 0:17:10.640 --> 0:17:13.360 are the advantages of being president. This is what's annoying. 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:18.720 What I learned by serving in this time is that 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.840 serving in a time of crisis, I believe is far 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.320 more rewarding than serving in normal times. And it's rewarding 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:30.119 because you can really make a difference. There is no 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.120 time like the president to do the job. 0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:34.040 In the early days of the country, there were a 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.000 few private universities. They were all private pretty much in 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.920 the early days. But in recent years Harvard has in 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.879 size and breadth and depth, really going way past the 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.320 other major universities that you could argue what enabled Harvard 0:17:47.320 --> 0:17:50.920 to become such a big university relative that let's say Princeton, 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:53.919 which is a great university but not quite as broad 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:56.800 as Harvard. What did Harvard do that enabled it to 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.240 grow to the point where when people say I want 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.360 my smart child to go somewhere, they say, I want 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:02.560 my child to be able to go to Harvard. 0:18:03.000 --> 0:18:08.080 Well, David, I actually think that the top research universities 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:13.080 in the US are all incredibly accomplished, and I don't 0:18:13.119 --> 0:18:17.880 feel as though Harvard is so far ahead of any 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:22.200 other institution. We're stronger in some areas in Princeton, and 0:18:22.440 --> 0:18:24.919 maybe not as strong as others, But the fact is 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:29.520 we're a very different institution from Princeton because Princeton has 0:18:29.720 --> 0:18:34.680 PhD programs, but they did not invest heavily in professional schools, 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:37.399 so they're covering a different part of the waterfront. But 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:42.680 I would say that we've been fortunate in a number 0:18:42.720 --> 0:18:46.960 of ways, including the generosity of our alumni and friends 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:49.919 has helped us. That's been true for the other pre 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.920 eminent research universities as well. 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:56.480 Many members of Congress think that Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.800 other major universities that are well known are too liberal. 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.480 How does Harvard address that, and how do you get 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.320 a faculty that has more people that are not quote liberal? 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:07.320 And is it really unrealistic to do that? 0:19:08.440 --> 0:19:12.719 I think that the core issue is really a question 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:19.240 are our students exposed to the full range of serious 0:19:19.359 --> 0:19:24.040 views about important issues. Could be in science, it could 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:30.400 be in my field of economics, could be in political science, 0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:35.640 in all kinds of areas, and there's a risk if 0:19:35.640 --> 0:19:39.600 the faculty lean all in one direction politically, that they 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.800 won't be capable of presenting views other than their owns, 0:19:42.800 --> 0:19:47.359 and therefore our students won't be exposed. Oftentimes, my professors 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:51.080 would not reveal what their personal views were. Sometimes they did, 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.800 but it was never with the idea that you would 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:59.280 say only certain views are correct about this issue. That's 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.359 the problem we have to solve. I think that to 0:20:02.400 --> 0:20:04.840 fully address this, we do need a wider range of 0:20:04.920 --> 0:20:09.280 views on campus. It's not just about liberal conservative, it's 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.840 on all kinds of dimensions. We need a diversity of views, 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.960 we need many different views, and we need to create 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:22.240 an environment in which our students can speak freely because actually, 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.359 for students, I would say, the most pernicious issue about 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.160 this fear that there's that the faculty are all from 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.160 one part of the political spectrum. The fear is that 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.800 the students who disagree can't express those views or they 0:20:36.840 --> 0:20:40.440 will be ostracized in some way. We have to overcome that, 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:41.920 and I think we're making progress. 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:44.640 What percentage of students who come to Harvard College are 0:20:44.720 --> 0:20:46.600 on some kind of scholarship I have, you know, the 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.560 assumption might be that they all are from wealthy families 0:20:49.640 --> 0:20:52.080 or most of them. What percentage actually on some kind 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:52.760 of scholarship. 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.680 It's on the order of sixty percent receive financial aid. 0:20:56.680 --> 0:21:01.200 And I would add that students from family pollies that 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:05.600 earn less than two hundred thousand dollars a year can 0:21:05.680 --> 0:21:07.720 attend Harvard College tuition free. 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:11.320 Speaking of tuition, many people criticize the high tuitions of 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:15.119 private universities, in particular, saying that they're all very, very high, 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:17.800 beyond the means of most middle class families. 0:21:18.000 --> 0:21:19.520 Why is tuition so high? 0:21:19.680 --> 0:21:24.040 The cost of providing an education at the kinds of 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.800 universities that you've mentioned have gone up and up over 0:21:27.920 --> 0:21:32.639 time in real terms. For many of our universities, that is, 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:38.040 inflation adjusted terms, the tuition has gone down and I'm 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:42.080 talking about the nominal tuition for the students who don't 0:21:42.080 --> 0:21:45.680 receive any financial aid. When you take an account financial aid, 0:21:45.800 --> 0:21:46.600 it's gone down. 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:48.959 But the cost of educating one of these students that 0:21:49.000 --> 0:21:50.080 you educate, is it. 0:21:50.200 --> 0:21:51.439 Higher than the actual tuition? 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:56.560 Yes, And you think the American universities today are in 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.679 danger of not becoming as important to the or the 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.919 world as they were ten twenty years ago because of 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:07.199 challenges to the universities. We still think the university are 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:10.040 so strong that they can overcome some of the current 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:11.480 challenges and criticisms. 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.920 I am optimistic about that. But I think is extremely 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:21.720 important is for Harvard and our peer institutions, for particularly 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:28.520 other research universities, to re establish trust in our institutions 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:33.639 and our mission because what we've accomplished really would not 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:39.239 have been possible without this incredibly successful partnership with the 0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.760 federal government, which has driven the research enterprise. 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:45.960 As I said before, So one final question I want 0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:48.200 to ask you is I have a seven year old 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:53.919 granddaughter and she's very smart, and I'm just wondering is 0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.520 there an early, early, early decision process that Harvard has 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.200 or would you consider starting one. I mean, she's very talented, 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:04.560 So would you consider early early decision for people of 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:05.359 that age or not? 0:23:05.480 --> 0:23:08.440 Well, David, I have to ask you, how's her pitching arm? 0:23:09.880 --> 0:23:12.120 It's better than some of the pictures that I have. There, 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:15.320 you go, maybe she could be on the athletic teams. 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:16.840 But if you had to do it all over again, 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:18.520 when they asked you to be the president of Harvard, 0:23:18.520 --> 0:23:20.480