WEBVTT - The Mark Moss Show Nov 24, 2021 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.559 Hey, everyone, you are listening to the Mark Moss Show, 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:05.720 and we are talking about bitcoin, of course, and the 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.360 cryptocurrencies and this decentralized revolution that's happening. I'm here with 0:00:10.360 --> 0:00:12.160 you each and every week trying to bring you the 0:00:12.280 --> 0:00:17.720 asymmetric information to benefit to participate in this asymmetric opportunity 0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:20.279 that we're facing. Today, I am joined by one of 0:00:20.280 --> 0:00:23.840 my good friends, Justine Harper. She um, she's with Unchained 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:28.160 Capital and you can find her on Twitter at miss Hotel. 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.360 That's h O d L Miss Hotel of course. If 0:00:31.360 --> 0:00:33.199 you don't know what that means, that's hold on for 0:00:33.320 --> 0:00:34.879 dear life. That's the term that we use in the 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:38.320 bitcoin space for hanging on really strong and not not 0:00:38.360 --> 0:00:41.320 having weak paper hands. Um. Anyway, Justine, thanks so much 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.840 for joining me today. Thank you so much for having 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.280 me here. And yes, we all hold on for dear life. 0:00:46.320 --> 0:00:48.400 But yeah, I have. I've always joked that I hoddle 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:50.800 all the things, so it seems to fitting. Yeah, thanks 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.160 so much for having me. Yeah, man, I love trading 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:56.040 stuff back and forth with you online, so that would 0:00:56.040 --> 0:00:57.240 be so fun just to have you in and just 0:00:57.320 --> 0:00:59.520 kind of talk about what's going on, you know, I'm 0:00:59.560 --> 0:01:01.280 just trying to keep everybody up to date on what's 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.920 going on in the bitcoin and decentralized revolution space. And 0:01:05.959 --> 0:01:08.240 you know, I'm bringing everybody the latest news each and 0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:09.760 every week so they can stay on top of it. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.440 Of course, not everybody lives in the space like we do. 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.520 And you know, one of the articles I was reading 0:01:14.560 --> 0:01:17.560 this week that kind of caught my eye, UM was 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:19.760 it was on the Wall Street Journal. I mean, this 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.039 is really starting to get mainstream. Uh. It's kind of 0:01:23.080 --> 0:01:25.560 the first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:26.800 then they fight you, and then they have to kind 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:28.200 of join you. And of course that's kind of where 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.440 the Wall Street fits in. And there's this article that 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.080 says that you know, more players that were getting to 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.800 arrive in the world of digital assets um. And it 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.760 says at the beginning of a person's journey into the 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.600 world of cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin, UM, a wallet often 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:45.160 refers to what a traditional bank or brokerage account already does, 0:01:45.880 --> 0:01:51.080 and it holds a customer's assets UM And I think, like, um, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:53.120 you know, I think there's a big misconception that a 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.480 lot of people have when they come in is that, 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.680 you know, we're so used to kind of growing up 0:01:58.680 --> 0:02:01.240 and how a bank works, and they bank holds our money, right, 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:02.680 I don't want to put it in my mattress. I 0:02:02.960 --> 0:02:04.920 put it in a bank, UM. And they think about 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.320 the same way about bank When I buy bitcoin, whether 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.239 I buy that on robin Hood or or or um 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:13.480 you know, cash app or whatever, that's like kind of 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.840 leaving it on a bank there. And and I know 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.240 that's a big misconception. What do you think about that? 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.239 I think it's a big misconception as well. UM. I 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.920 think one of the most beautiful things about bitcoin is 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:26.519 our ability to truly own an asset for the first 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:28.919 time in history. And part of that UM is being 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.120 able to not be cut off from this asset. So 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:34.440 in a traditional banking system, that bank holds that asset 0:02:34.600 --> 0:02:36.680 and UM, you're trusting for it to be there and 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.360 for you to have access to it when you need it. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.600 And bitcoin essentially solves that issue by you holding the 0:02:42.680 --> 0:02:46.120 keys to this address or wallet UM and therefore cannot 0:02:46.120 --> 0:02:48.040 be cut off your from your wealth. So I do 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.360 think it's a normal UM in an individual's bitcoin journey 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.480 to start out with their assets, you know, on an 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.280 exchange they purchase in bitcoin somewhere sitting there, and then 0:02:56.320 --> 0:02:58.040 as I learn more and more, I do feel that 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.839 self custody is a very, very and step to take 0:03:01.120 --> 0:03:03.600 and something I'm super passionate about. Um So, I do 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:06.720 believe that everybody is capable to hold the keys to 0:03:06.760 --> 0:03:09.880 their own bitcoin well. And I love to see things 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:11.920 like this in the All Street Journal. Um I love 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:13.920 that we're going mainstream in this way, but I do 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:18.079 think it's really vital important to educate individuals on those 0:03:18.080 --> 0:03:23.400 differences and the importance of digging into health crustody for sure. Yeah, 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:25.680 I mean you're the perfect perfect person to talk to 0:03:25.760 --> 0:03:27.960 about this, as as you work for Unshamed Capital. I 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.400 know you guys offer solutions for that, but you know, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.919 I like to try to think about things in terms of, like, 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.840 what's the problem that we're trying to solve. Right today, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:38.640 we have all this money slash around the system. It's 0:03:38.640 --> 0:03:40.920 all trying to solve problems that we don't need. And 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:44.320 it's like, you know, bitcoin came to solve a massive problem, 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.760 which was being able to custody my own assets, and uh, 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.280 it allowed me to store my wealth in a way 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:55.240 that can't be stolen or manipulated. And so if that's 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.520 the and actually I've I've talked a lot about this. 0:03:57.680 --> 0:04:00.800 I think that's the oldest problem in humanity, um since 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:02.840 the beginning of time. Someone's gonna come steal my chickens 0:04:02.920 --> 0:04:04.760 or you know, still my goats. And so we make 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:07.040 a we make a collective, and then a village, and 0:04:07.040 --> 0:04:09.480 then the kingdom and then the country, and we're removing 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:12.600 the oldest problem that man has has had. So like, 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:15.640 why wouldn't we want to take advantage of that? Didn't 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.960 that the whole they were trying to solve? Absolutely? And 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:22.240 I think sometimes people think of extremes, right like, oh, well, 0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.239 you know the six change, What's what are the chances 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:26.960 actually are getting hacked? What are the chances of me 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:31.360 losing assets? Um by losing access? And I think history 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.600 tells us it's actually a very probable thing that we 0:04:34.640 --> 0:04:36.640 should be concerned about. I mean, we could go back 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:40.599 to Executive Order two. If you have any gold holders 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:42.680 out there, I'm sure you're very familiar with that. But 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.040 even today, you know, UM banks cut off your access. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:49.280 Maybe you did some transactions they didn't like, maybe you know, 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.080 for whatever reason, you're going against the fold of it, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:55.600 and they can essentially say, you know, no longer can 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.280 have access to these banking facilities. We have millions of 0:04:59.279 --> 0:05:01.440 people who are banked around the world. So I think 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.360 it is a real problem, and I think the point 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:05.640 does solve that as well as, of course, you know, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.840 solving the issue of a hard money asset, but having 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:13.279 the ability to fully hold the wealth in our hands 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:16.159 and have no way of being cut off from it. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.159 I think it's a huge, huge part of it as well, 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:23.760 And so yes, I think it's extremely important aspect of it. Yeah, yeah, 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:28.800 you know, I've actually been in court all week virtually 0:05:28.960 --> 0:05:30.760 I'm not supposed to be talking about it, but I'm 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:32.920 actually in a lawsuit with an exchange I'm not going 0:05:32.960 --> 0:05:36.719 public with about yet because some of my assets disappeared 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:38.800 out of their mysteriously. This is a couple of years ago. 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:41.240 Um and if it if it can happen to me, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:44.320 it can happen to anybody. Um. So so there's that. 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.440 But I think, you know, it's it's even bigger than that. 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:50.320 To write where you referenced the Executive Order six o two, 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:54.440 so basically that's back in three the government took everyone's 0:05:54.480 --> 0:05:57.839 goals away and uh, a lot of people. Raydalio I 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:00.520 made a video about Rayal because he said that the 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:05.000 government will make bitcoin illegal just like they did gold. Um, 0:06:05.080 --> 0:06:06.560 and the same reason why they did with gold. But 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:08.640 they may they were able to make gold illegal because 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.159 it was already in the banks and they went into 0:06:11.200 --> 0:06:13.880 a bank holiday where they shut the banks down and 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:17.120 then when they reopened them, uh that you couldn't get 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:18.600 their gold out. But if they had to go like 0:06:18.760 --> 0:06:21.039 across the prairie from ranch to ranch to rants with 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.480 people with guns and collect gold, it probably never would 0:06:24.480 --> 0:06:28.040 have happened. No, absolutely, So that's a single point of failure, right, 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.440 So the bank became our single point of failure because 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:32.680 it was holding all of our assets. Um. And I 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.640 do feel like exchanges are that same uh have that 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.000 same issue as as that traditional banks do. So I 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:42.640 feel like if you're getting into bitcoin, it's okay to 0:06:42.680 --> 0:06:45.120 be slightly intimidated by self crustody, but you do need 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.320 to understand how vital it is because it's one of 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:50.279 the factors the bitcoin that is extremely empowering, and that's 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:53.640 something at Engine Capital that we are Our goal essentially 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.520 is to help empower people to hold their wealth and 0:06:56.600 --> 0:07:00.000 then of course offer additional services, but holding those keys 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.600 step one. That's the whole foundation, and so trying to 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.360 empower people to do that because it is the most 0:07:05.400 --> 0:07:08.719 important part. Yeah, And I guess the big thing that 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.680 people have to kind of think through is like custodial 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.360 or non custodial like and I guess it really comes 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.360 down to do who holds the key? Right? Do I 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.720 have it myself or am I trusting somebody else? And 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.480 I guess they both have their pros and cons um 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:22.760 and I guess you just kind of kind of think 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:26.200 through which one suits your your particular needs. Yep. Everything 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.880 has trade offs, especially bitcoin. So I think it's one 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.840 of those things that there are services and sometimes you 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:32.640 want to you want to give up a little bit 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.640 to get those services. It just depends on each individual. 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:38.000 But also, yeah, you've got to kind of think of 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.400 like why are you holding bitcoin? Are you holding bitcoin 0:07:40.440 --> 0:07:42.760 because it's the hardest money that's ever existed and nobody 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.760 can cut you off from it? Well, hey, then you 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:47.120 probably shouldn't have it around exchange that you could easily 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:48.720 be cut off on that. So yeah, I just think 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.600 it's it's something that we all have to think about, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.960 and it is completely different than the traditional legacy system 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:56.640 and how we're used to dealing with things. Um. But yeah, 0:07:56.720 --> 0:07:58.800 it's it's that single point of failure. I think we 0:07:59.160 --> 0:08:01.800 a hundred years ago, everybody was sort of holding their assets, right, 0:08:01.840 --> 0:08:03.640 so this idea of turning over to the bank was 0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:05.920 not something people wanted to do. And so we sort 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.600 of have to retrain ourselves to what it feels like 0:08:08.640 --> 0:08:11.720 to actually own an asset, and personal responsibility comes along 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.280 with that. But there is, in my opinion, uh, financial 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:18.320 freedom that comes along with it with that responsibility. Yeah, 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.760 if you think about, um, you know, way back, you 0:08:21.760 --> 0:08:24.080 know whatever, hundred fifty years ago, people would just hold 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:26.720 hold gold, that would gold was money, and he would 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.160 you know from movies or whatever, you see they have 0:08:29.280 --> 0:08:31.960 like a treasure a treasure map, Right, they'd go bury 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:33.880 their gold and then they'd have like this map and 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.320 that's how they would secure it by hide and I suppose, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.040 but we've always had that problem, um, and so I think, 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:43.040 you know, we've needed a bank to store that because 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.000 of course we can't secure it properly. But now it's 0:08:46.040 --> 0:08:48.959 just so easy and it costs no money. It Uh, 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.080 there's there's no security it's involved, um, just a little 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.040 bit of effort. I want to get into some of 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:56.800 the steps, UM that maybe you could help us think 0:08:56.800 --> 0:08:58.760 through as far as custody or non custody. When we 0:08:58.800 --> 0:09:01.480 get back, Um, you're listening to the Mark Mo Show. 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.520 We're talking about bitcoin and we're talking about cryptocurrencies. We're 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:08.640 talking about the d centralized Revolution. Of course, each and 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:10.920 every week, I'm with my good friend Justine Harper. You 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.079 can find her on Twitter at miss Hotel M s 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:18.079 h O d L. She's with Unchained Capital. UM. I 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:19.720 just brought her on to have a good talk and 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:22.520 just so happens, this story is right up her alley. 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:25.760 We'll be back with more on how to secure your 0:09:25.960 --> 0:09:28.760 bitcoin when we get right back. Hey everyone, welcome back. 0:09:28.760 --> 0:09:31.000 You are listening to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:36.360 about bitcoin and cryptocurrency and the D Centralized Revolution. And 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:37.880 I tell you each and every week, this is the 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.120 biggest movement. This is the biggest shift we've ever seen 0:09:41.160 --> 0:09:43.400 in humanity that we'll ever see. And of course, the 0:09:43.400 --> 0:09:45.520 way to take advantage of it is to have information 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:47.959 that most people don't have, which is why you should 0:09:48.000 --> 0:09:51.120 be here with me at this time. Each and every week, 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.120 so we'll paull out your phone set a reminder for 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.120 this channel for this time slot. UM. I'm here with 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.240 my good friend Justine Harper. You can find her on 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.280 Twitter at miss Hotel, ms h O d L at 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:05.200 Misshold of course, UM at one Mark moss UM. If 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:06.880 you'd like to give us a follow, shoot us a 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:08.319 question and tell us you heard us on the radio, 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.200 that would be awesome. But we were talking about before 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:13.640 the break this Wall Street Journal article that came out 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:17.520 talking about how people coming into bitcoin um or have 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.640 to think about wallets. UM. So it's interesting that they 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.400 brought that kind of to the forefront UM. And one 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:25.360 of the distinctions that they made, or they said that 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:29.640 people should think about would be UM custodial or non 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.680 custodial and UM. I think at the end of the day, 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:36.000 really that comes down to who holds the key. So 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:39.040 they say, you know, not your keys, not your coin. Uh. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.719 So to speak Justine, UM, when you think about non 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.839 custodial wallets, UM, I guess typically I would think about 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.040 like apps on a phone that I would like download, 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.600 like an app UM. But I guess even like coin 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:54.960 base would also probably be considered a non custodial wallet. Right, 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.559 so I think coin base has a non custodial function. Um, 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.199 they do have like a separate wallet that does allow 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.000 you to hold the keys. UM, and we may take 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.240 a couple of steps back. I'm not sure how what 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:08.800 level of understanding the audience is that, but essentially bitcoin, 0:11:08.840 --> 0:11:10.800 you know, essentially lives on a network. Whoever holds the 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:14.040 keys to this address can move funds and therefore prove 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:17.120 ownership by signing a t briansaction with these keys. UM. 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.960 So when you have funds on an exchange, they're holding bitcoin, 0:11:20.040 --> 0:11:22.200 you have an IOU next your name that says this 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.920 is how much you own, and you're asking them for 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.520 permission to move those funds. Holding your own keys or 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:33.079 self custody essentially means you hold those keys and therefore 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.800 there's no middle lamp. And so when you move over 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:39.200 to a non custodial wallet, that essentially means when you 0:11:39.240 --> 0:11:41.560 set up this wallet, you were given a set of keys. 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:45.920 In bitcoin, keys sometimes look like something called seed phrases, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.240 which is a list of twelve to twenty four words. 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:51.320 It's essentially a code or algorithm that represents this long 0:11:51.440 --> 0:11:54.760 string of characters that is your keys. So um, if 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:56.719 you have not been given those seed phrases when you 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:59.120 set up this wallet, you don't have the keys. So 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.640 you can find into mobile apps which we would call 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:04.880 like a hot wallet, um. Great ones would be like 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:09.360 blue wallet, Green wallet, Moon wallet um. And then you 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.000 have custodial services who hold those keys for you, which 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.800 when I think of that, you have exchanges. This article 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.280 is talking about banks doing this. Perhaps you know there 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.120 are a lot of uh companies that do this for you. 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.920 Then you can go and even step further and do 0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.560 something called hardware wallets, which means you're holding your keys 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:31.240 on a separate device, not on your phone, not online um. 0:12:31.280 --> 0:12:34.680 And it's just a small user interface exactly that allows 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:37.640 you to interact with those keys and stores them securely. 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.360 So that's my that's my quick spiel on on how 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:44.320 those work. But yes, essentially, when I think of non custodio, 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:47.920 I think of someone who some sort of entity that's 0:12:47.960 --> 0:12:51.040 offering a wallet software for you to use while you 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.319 hold the keys, um, rather than custodio like an exchange 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.280 that's that's just holding the asset for you. You know, 0:12:57.400 --> 0:13:00.000 I think about as I was saying, but I think 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.440 before the in the last section before the break. Um, 0:13:02.480 --> 0:13:05.559 it really solves the oldest problem that mankind has had 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:07.640 is how can I store my property in a way 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.040 that it can't be stolen from me? So bitcoin solves 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.000 that problem, and that's definitely one way, one reason to custody. 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.959 I also think about it another way, um, kind of 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:17.960 we talked about with the golden situation. Now they stole 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:21.920 the gold, and I'd like to say that centralization always 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:26.640 leads to manipulation, and so um, you know, almost we 0:13:26.679 --> 0:13:29.600 have a responsibility, well we should want to take custody 0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.559 of our assets because we can, and it solves that problem. 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.640 But we also seem to, probably at least myself, I'm 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.319 curious where you're at, but probably have like this responsibility 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:43.320 to hold these financial firms responsible. And so um, when 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:46.160 we allow them to centralize all our assets, they'll start 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:47.760 to manipulate it, just like they did with gold. They 0:13:47.760 --> 0:13:51.400 started printing too many gold certificates. Um. And so you know, 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.800 we have in the in the gold paper market, there's 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.520 like five hundred paper ounces for everyone physical ounce being sold. 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.040 And now we're starting to see like bitcoin, ETFs and 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:03.240 all these types of things, and like we can just 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.240 pull our bitcoin off the exchange and like we can 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.520 hold them accountabill make sure they're like playing by the 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:10.959 rules all the time. I mean, do you think that's 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:13.480 a big piece of that as well? Yes, I think 0:14:13.480 --> 0:14:15.319 it's a huge piece. I think when we go back 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.040 in um in history and like how did we get here, right, 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.280 we all used gold independently. We used to chip those 0:14:21.480 --> 0:14:24.720 chips off of our gold block right to transact with people, 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.200 and then we found an easier way to solve this 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:29.920 issue of transacting by giving the bank our gold and 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:32.360 they give us a piece of paper that was redeemable 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.920 for that gold. And then the the issue rise like 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:37.880 you speak of that. Now they had all this gold 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.320 and they were, you know, doing paper or coins, and 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:46.720 they could decide what percentage of gold or asset was 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.600 within those right, how much did you get in return? 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:52.200 And that led to printing. You know, they can they 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:57.920 can print endless amounts of this helicopter paper money right 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.040 anytime they want, and we have no ability to you 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.320 audit that supply, We have no ability to demand those assets. 0:15:04.680 --> 0:15:06.800 We're just sort of in their hands. So I think 0:15:06.800 --> 0:15:10.640 the point is very different even in the way of 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:13.280 using these sort of third parties is that you can't 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:17.240 you can't make more bitcoin. You can independently audit the supply, 0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:19.960 you can see it publicly where it sits, and so 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.560 they are held to a higher standard. But I do 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.440 think that if we get into a habit of always 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.760 relying on these third parties, we're going to find our 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:31.080 thoughts self in a situation of that centralized entity and 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.360 single point of failure. And that, in my opinion, is 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.920 why self custody, even if you start off very simply 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:40.080 should be the adiable for everyone. Yeah. Yeah, we gotta 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.600 keep these uh got to keep these uh institutions accountable. 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:46.280 I mean, otherwise we just have only ourselves to blame. 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.200 You know, in the past, it wasn't our fault, you know, 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:52.280 especially in futures um commodity, so bitcoin is considered a commodity, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.320 So oil, wheat, you know, things like that. We we 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:57.520 can't take delivery of oil, like what am I going 0:15:57.560 --> 0:15:59.600 to do with that? And so you know you're kind 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:01.520 of stuck with that. Even gold, like how do I 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.600 take delivery of the gold? Um that we can take 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.840 delivery of bitcoin with just clicking a button and it 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.600 doesn't cost us anything, and so um. I guess man, 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.000 if people don't want to take the responsibility to do that, 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:17.920 they probably deserve what they're gonna get. Well, first of all, like, 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.480 are you saying you can't independently audit the supply of oil? Mark? 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.520 Like what are you doing with yourself? Um? But yes, 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:25.840 so I do think that, like I said, everything has 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:27.880 trade offs. Um. I do think that there will be 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:32.200 people who just get exposed to bitcoin or crypto um 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.440 through these third parties. But you're just getting financial exposures. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.960 So maybe it's about price action, right, You're not getting 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.640 the benefits of a decentralized asset that you can own. 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.600 You only get that if you are holding the keys. Um. 0:16:46.640 --> 0:16:49.320 But yes, we can hold them accountable because they can't 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.440 just make up a number on a spreadsheet anymore. Right, 0:16:51.440 --> 0:16:53.520 we're taking that ability away from them. And that's what 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:57.440 the point does is it aligns the incentives and allows 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:01.360 us to audit absolutely everything. Yeah, that's a good point. 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.720 When when you buy it on on exchange, like well, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:06.040 not exchange, but like a robin Hood for example, or 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.359 a cash app, um, you're not really or PayPal, I think, uh, 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:12.199 some of those they don't allow you to withdraw it. 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.120 So kind of to the point you just made, you're 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:17.320 getting exposure to the price of bitcoin um, but you're 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:21.639 not really participating in this decentralized revolution that's actually happening. 0:17:21.640 --> 0:17:24.600 You're not you're not you're not doing anything revolutionary. All 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.880 you're literally doing is gambling and just betting on the price. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.159 And so that's that's a good point. So definitely think 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:32.600 about one where you buy it. I mean, you should 0:17:32.600 --> 0:17:35.000 buy it at a place that allows you to withdraw it, 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:38.320 and then of course the next step is to withdraw it. 0:17:39.040 --> 0:17:41.680 Maybe start small, right, I get it, it's scary. I've 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.280 lost a lot of bitcoin um, anybody who's been in 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:47.119 the space long enough has and so so start small 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:49.760 doing that. I want to switch gears. I want to 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.360 jump into some big news that happened this week. One 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:57.840 of bitcoin's biggest people talk to one of the uh 0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:01.159 I don't know, psychology philosophies, world's biggest people, and there 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.359 were some really good nuggets with that. You listen to 0:18:03.359 --> 0:18:06.359 the Mark Moss Show and with Justine Harper Misshotel and 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.960 we're gonna be right back, all right, welcome back. You 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.080 are listening to the Mark ma Show, where we talk 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.679 about bitcoin each and every week. We talked about bitcoins 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:20.000 and cryptocurrencies, decentralized revolution. We're talking about this entire movement 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:23.199 that's going on. I'm here every week trying to give 0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.159 you the asymmetric information so you can participate in this 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.959 asymmetric opportunity. I'm here with my good friend Justine Harper. 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.679 You can find her on Twitter at Misshotel that's m 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:36.440 s h O d l UM. I gotta warn you though, 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.600 she can be a little snarky sometimes, but I love it. 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.520 I love the doctor, so I'm so happy that she's here. UM. 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.560 We were talking about UM this Wall Street Journal article 0:18:46.600 --> 0:18:49.320 about UM how to custom your coin and how to 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.200 think through different types of wallets. She's the perfect perfect 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:54.160 person to talk to about that because as she works 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:56.840 for unchained Capital, which is a company that I used 0:18:56.880 --> 0:18:59.639 to help me secure my bitcoin. So check them out 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:02.600 when you get a chance. Unchained Capital. UM, Justine, I 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:04.760 want to talk about something else. So there's an article 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.320 or actually, something big happened this week, and that was 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:12.280 Jordan Peterson, who most people probably know by now, probably 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.600 doesn't need a big introduction of who he is. UM 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:19.959 probably one of the smartest people. I mean, I mean 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:23.000