Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, you are listening to the Mark Moss Show,
Speaker 1: and we are talking about bitcoin, of course, and the
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies and this decentralized revolution that's happening. I'm here with
Speaker 1: you each and every week trying to bring you the
Speaker 1: asymmetric information to benefit to participate in this asymmetric opportunity
Speaker 1: that we're facing. Today, I am joined by one of
Speaker 1: my good friends, Justine Harper. She um, she's with Unchained
Speaker 1: Capital and you can find her on Twitter at miss Hotel.
Speaker 1: That's h O d L Miss Hotel of course. If
Speaker 1: you don't know what that means, that's hold on for
Speaker 1: dear life. That's the term that we use in the
Speaker 1: bitcoin space for hanging on really strong and not not
Speaker 1: having weak paper hands. Um. Anyway, Justine, thanks so much
Speaker 1: for joining me today. Thank you so much for having
Speaker 1: me here. And yes, we all hold on for dear life.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I have. I've always joked that I hoddle
Speaker 1: all the things, so it seems to fitting. Yeah, thanks
Speaker 1: so much for having me. Yeah, man, I love trading
Speaker 1: stuff back and forth with you online, so that would
Speaker 1: be so fun just to have you in and just
Speaker 1: kind of talk about what's going on, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to keep everybody up to date on what's
Speaker 1: going on in the bitcoin and decentralized revolution space. And
Speaker 1: you know, I'm bringing everybody the latest news each and
Speaker 1: every week so they can stay on top of it.
Speaker 1: Of course, not everybody lives in the space like we do.
Speaker 1: And you know, one of the articles I was reading
Speaker 1: this week that kind of caught my eye, UM was
Speaker 1: it was on the Wall Street Journal. I mean, this
Speaker 1: is really starting to get mainstream. Uh. It's kind of
Speaker 1: the first they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
Speaker 1: then they fight you, and then they have to kind
Speaker 1: of join you. And of course that's kind of where
Speaker 1: the Wall Street fits in. And there's this article that
Speaker 1: says that you know, more players that were getting to
Speaker 1: arrive in the world of digital assets um. And it
Speaker 1: says at the beginning of a person's journey into the
Speaker 1: world of cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin, UM, a wallet often
Speaker 1: refers to what a traditional bank or brokerage account already does,
Speaker 1: and it holds a customer's assets UM And I think, like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's a big misconception that a
Speaker 1: lot of people have when they come in is that,
Speaker 1: you know, we're so used to kind of growing up
Speaker 1: and how a bank works, and they bank holds our money, right,
Speaker 1: I don't want to put it in my mattress. I
Speaker 1: put it in a bank, UM. And they think about
Speaker 1: the same way about bank When I buy bitcoin, whether
Speaker 1: I buy that on robin Hood or or or um
Speaker 1: you know, cash app or whatever, that's like kind of
Speaker 1: leaving it on a bank there. And and I know
Speaker 1: that's a big misconception. What do you think about that?
Speaker 1: I think it's a big misconception as well. UM. I
Speaker 1: think one of the most beautiful things about bitcoin is
Speaker 1: our ability to truly own an asset for the first
Speaker 1: time in history. And part of that UM is being
Speaker 1: able to not be cut off from this asset. So
Speaker 1: in a traditional banking system, that bank holds that asset
Speaker 1: and UM, you're trusting for it to be there and
Speaker 1: for you to have access to it when you need it.
Speaker 1: And bitcoin essentially solves that issue by you holding the
Speaker 1: keys to this address or wallet UM and therefore cannot
Speaker 1: be cut off your from your wealth. So I do
Speaker 1: think it's a normal UM in an individual's bitcoin journey
Speaker 1: to start out with their assets, you know, on an
Speaker 1: exchange they purchase in bitcoin somewhere sitting there, and then
Speaker 1: as I learn more and more, I do feel that
Speaker 1: self custody is a very, very and step to take
Speaker 1: and something I'm super passionate about. Um So, I do
Speaker 1: believe that everybody is capable to hold the keys to
Speaker 1: their own bitcoin well. And I love to see things
Speaker 1: like this in the All Street Journal. Um I love
Speaker 1: that we're going mainstream in this way, but I do
Speaker 1: think it's really vital important to educate individuals on those
Speaker 1: differences and the importance of digging into health crustody for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean you're the perfect perfect person to talk to
Speaker 1: about this, as as you work for Unshamed Capital. I
Speaker 1: know you guys offer solutions for that, but you know,
Speaker 1: I like to try to think about things in terms of, like,
Speaker 1: what's the problem that we're trying to solve. Right today,
Speaker 1: we have all this money slash around the system. It's
Speaker 1: all trying to solve problems that we don't need. And
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, bitcoin came to solve a massive problem,
Speaker 1: which was being able to custody my own assets, and uh,
Speaker 1: it allowed me to store my wealth in a way
Speaker 1: that can't be stolen or manipulated. And so if that's
Speaker 1: the and actually I've I've talked a lot about this.
Speaker 1: I think that's the oldest problem in humanity, um since
Speaker 1: the beginning of time. Someone's gonna come steal my chickens
Speaker 1: or you know, still my goats. And so we make
Speaker 1: a we make a collective, and then a village, and
Speaker 1: then the kingdom and then the country, and we're removing
Speaker 1: the oldest problem that man has has had. So like,
Speaker 1: why wouldn't we want to take advantage of that? Didn't
Speaker 1: that the whole they were trying to solve? Absolutely? And
Speaker 1: I think sometimes people think of extremes, right like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you know the six change, What's what are the chances
Speaker 1: actually are getting hacked? What are the chances of me
Speaker 1: losing assets? Um by losing access? And I think history
Speaker 1: tells us it's actually a very probable thing that we
Speaker 1: should be concerned about. I mean, we could go back
Speaker 1: to Executive Order two. If you have any gold holders
Speaker 1: out there, I'm sure you're very familiar with that. But
Speaker 1: even today, you know, UM banks cut off your access.
Speaker 1: Maybe you did some transactions they didn't like, maybe you know,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you're going against the fold of it,
Speaker 1: and they can essentially say, you know, no longer can
Speaker 1: have access to these banking facilities. We have millions of
Speaker 1: people who are banked around the world. So I think
Speaker 1: it is a real problem, and I think the point
Speaker 1: does solve that as well as, of course, you know,
Speaker 1: solving the issue of a hard money asset, but having
Speaker 1: the ability to fully hold the wealth in our hands
Speaker 1: and have no way of being cut off from it.
Speaker 1: I think it's a huge, huge part of it as well,
Speaker 1: And so yes, I think it's extremely important aspect of it. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I've actually been in court all week virtually
Speaker 1: I'm not supposed to be talking about it, but I'm
Speaker 1: actually in a lawsuit with an exchange I'm not going
Speaker 1: public with about yet because some of my assets disappeared
Speaker 1: out of their mysteriously. This is a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: Um and if it if it can happen to me,
Speaker 1: it can happen to anybody. Um. So so there's that.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, it's it's even bigger than that.
Speaker 1: To write where you referenced the Executive Order six o two,
Speaker 1: so basically that's back in three the government took everyone's
Speaker 1: goals away and uh, a lot of people. Raydalio I
Speaker 1: made a video about Rayal because he said that the
Speaker 1: government will make bitcoin illegal just like they did gold. Um,
Speaker 1: and the same reason why they did with gold. But
Speaker 1: they may they were able to make gold illegal because
Speaker 1: it was already in the banks and they went into
Speaker 1: a bank holiday where they shut the banks down and
Speaker 1: then when they reopened them, uh that you couldn't get
Speaker 1: their gold out. But if they had to go like
Speaker 1: across the prairie from ranch to ranch to rants with
Speaker 1: people with guns and collect gold, it probably never would
Speaker 1: have happened. No, absolutely, So that's a single point of failure, right,
Speaker 1: So the bank became our single point of failure because
Speaker 1: it was holding all of our assets. Um. And I
Speaker 1: do feel like exchanges are that same uh have that
Speaker 1: same issue as as that traditional banks do. So I
Speaker 1: feel like if you're getting into bitcoin, it's okay to
Speaker 1: be slightly intimidated by self crustody, but you do need
Speaker 1: to understand how vital it is because it's one of
Speaker 1: the factors the bitcoin that is extremely empowering, and that's
Speaker 1: something at Engine Capital that we are Our goal essentially
Speaker 1: is to help empower people to hold their wealth and
Speaker 1: then of course offer additional services, but holding those keys
Speaker 1: step one. That's the whole foundation, and so trying to
Speaker 1: empower people to do that because it is the most
Speaker 1: important part. Yeah, And I guess the big thing that
Speaker 1: people have to kind of think through is like custodial
Speaker 1: or non custodial like and I guess it really comes
Speaker 1: down to do who holds the key? Right? Do I
Speaker 1: have it myself or am I trusting somebody else? And
Speaker 1: I guess they both have their pros and cons um
Speaker 1: and I guess you just kind of kind of think
Speaker 1: through which one suits your your particular needs. Yep. Everything
Speaker 1: has trade offs, especially bitcoin. So I think it's one
Speaker 1: of those things that there are services and sometimes you
Speaker 1: want to you want to give up a little bit
Speaker 1: to get those services. It just depends on each individual.
Speaker 1: But also, yeah, you've got to kind of think of
Speaker 1: like why are you holding bitcoin? Are you holding bitcoin
Speaker 1: because it's the hardest money that's ever existed and nobody
Speaker 1: can cut you off from it? Well, hey, then you
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have it around exchange that you could easily
Speaker 1: be cut off on that. So yeah, I just think
Speaker 1: it's it's something that we all have to think about,
Speaker 1: and it is completely different than the traditional legacy system
Speaker 1: and how we're used to dealing with things. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's that single point of failure. I think we
Speaker 1: a hundred years ago, everybody was sort of holding their assets, right,
Speaker 1: so this idea of turning over to the bank was
Speaker 1: not something people wanted to do. And so we sort
Speaker 1: of have to retrain ourselves to what it feels like
Speaker 1: to actually own an asset, and personal responsibility comes along
Speaker 1: with that. But there is, in my opinion, uh, financial
Speaker 1: freedom that comes along with it with that responsibility. Yeah,
Speaker 1: if you think about, um, you know, way back, you
Speaker 1: know whatever, hundred fifty years ago, people would just hold
Speaker 1: hold gold, that would gold was money, and he would
Speaker 1: you know from movies or whatever, you see they have
Speaker 1: like a treasure a treasure map, Right, they'd go bury
Speaker 1: their gold and then they'd have like this map and
Speaker 1: that's how they would secure it by hide and I suppose,
Speaker 1: but we've always had that problem, um, and so I think,
Speaker 1: you know, we've needed a bank to store that because
Speaker 1: of course we can't secure it properly. But now it's
Speaker 1: just so easy and it costs no money. It Uh,
Speaker 1: there's there's no security it's involved, um, just a little
Speaker 1: bit of effort. I want to get into some of
Speaker 1: the steps, UM that maybe you could help us think
Speaker 1: through as far as custody or non custody. When we
Speaker 1: get back, Um, you're listening to the Mark Mo Show.
Speaker 1: We're talking about bitcoin and we're talking about cryptocurrencies. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the d centralized Revolution. Of course, each and
Speaker 1: every week, I'm with my good friend Justine Harper. You
Speaker 1: can find her on Twitter at miss Hotel M s
Speaker 1: h O d L. She's with Unchained Capital. UM. I
Speaker 1: just brought her on to have a good talk and
Speaker 1: just so happens, this story is right up her alley.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more on how to secure your
Speaker 1: bitcoin when we get right back. Hey everyone, welcome back.
Speaker 1: You are listening to the Mark Mo Show. We're talking
Speaker 1: about bitcoin and cryptocurrency and the D Centralized Revolution. And
Speaker 1: I tell you each and every week, this is the
Speaker 1: biggest movement. This is the biggest shift we've ever seen
Speaker 1: in humanity that we'll ever see. And of course, the
Speaker 1: way to take advantage of it is to have information
Speaker 1: that most people don't have, which is why you should
Speaker 1: be here with me at this time. Each and every week,
Speaker 1: so we'll paull out your phone set a reminder for
Speaker 1: this channel for this time slot. UM. I'm here with
Speaker 1: my good friend Justine Harper. You can find her on
Speaker 1: Twitter at miss Hotel, ms h O d L at
Speaker 1: Misshold of course, UM at one Mark moss UM. If
Speaker 1: you'd like to give us a follow, shoot us a
Speaker 1: question and tell us you heard us on the radio,
Speaker 1: that would be awesome. But we were talking about before
Speaker 1: the break this Wall Street Journal article that came out
Speaker 1: talking about how people coming into bitcoin um or have
Speaker 1: to think about wallets. UM. So it's interesting that they
Speaker 1: brought that kind of to the forefront UM. And one
Speaker 1: of the distinctions that they made, or they said that
Speaker 1: people should think about would be UM custodial or non
Speaker 1: custodial and UM. I think at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: really that comes down to who holds the key. So
Speaker 1: they say, you know, not your keys, not your coin. Uh.
Speaker 1: So to speak Justine, UM, when you think about non
Speaker 1: custodial wallets, UM, I guess typically I would think about
Speaker 1: like apps on a phone that I would like download,
Speaker 1: like an app UM. But I guess even like coin
Speaker 1: base would also probably be considered a non custodial wallet. Right,
Speaker 1: so I think coin base has a non custodial function. Um,
Speaker 1: they do have like a separate wallet that does allow
Speaker 1: you to hold the keys. UM, and we may take
Speaker 1: a couple of steps back. I'm not sure how what
Speaker 1: level of understanding the audience is that, but essentially bitcoin,
Speaker 1: you know, essentially lives on a network. Whoever holds the
Speaker 1: keys to this address can move funds and therefore prove
Speaker 1: ownership by signing a t briansaction with these keys. UM.
Speaker 1: So when you have funds on an exchange, they're holding bitcoin,
Speaker 1: you have an IOU next your name that says this
Speaker 1: is how much you own, and you're asking them for
Speaker 1: permission to move those funds. Holding your own keys or
Speaker 1: self custody essentially means you hold those keys and therefore
Speaker 1: there's no middle lamp. And so when you move over
Speaker 1: to a non custodial wallet, that essentially means when you
Speaker 1: set up this wallet, you were given a set of keys.
Speaker 1: In bitcoin, keys sometimes look like something called seed phrases,
Speaker 1: which is a list of twelve to twenty four words.
Speaker 1: It's essentially a code or algorithm that represents this long
Speaker 1: string of characters that is your keys. So um, if
Speaker 1: you have not been given those seed phrases when you
Speaker 1: set up this wallet, you don't have the keys. So
Speaker 1: you can find into mobile apps which we would call
Speaker 1: like a hot wallet, um. Great ones would be like
Speaker 1: blue wallet, Green wallet, Moon wallet um. And then you
Speaker 1: have custodial services who hold those keys for you, which
Speaker 1: when I think of that, you have exchanges. This article
Speaker 1: is talking about banks doing this. Perhaps you know there
Speaker 1: are a lot of uh companies that do this for you.
Speaker 1: Then you can go and even step further and do
Speaker 1: something called hardware wallets, which means you're holding your keys
Speaker 1: on a separate device, not on your phone, not online um.
Speaker 1: And it's just a small user interface exactly that allows
Speaker 1: you to interact with those keys and stores them securely.
Speaker 1: So that's my that's my quick spiel on on how
Speaker 1: those work. But yes, essentially, when I think of non custodio,
Speaker 1: I think of someone who some sort of entity that's
Speaker 1: offering a wallet software for you to use while you
Speaker 1: hold the keys, um, rather than custodio like an exchange
Speaker 1: that's that's just holding the asset for you. You know,
Speaker 1: I think about as I was saying, but I think
Speaker 1: before the in the last section before the break. Um,
Speaker 1: it really solves the oldest problem that mankind has had
Speaker 1: is how can I store my property in a way
Speaker 1: that it can't be stolen from me? So bitcoin solves
Speaker 1: that problem, and that's definitely one way, one reason to custody.
Speaker 1: I also think about it another way, um, kind of
Speaker 1: we talked about with the golden situation. Now they stole
Speaker 1: the gold, and I'd like to say that centralization always
Speaker 1: leads to manipulation, and so um, you know, almost we
Speaker 1: have a responsibility, well we should want to take custody
Speaker 1: of our assets because we can, and it solves that problem.
Speaker 1: But we also seem to, probably at least myself, I'm
Speaker 1: curious where you're at, but probably have like this responsibility
Speaker 1: to hold these financial firms responsible. And so um, when
Speaker 1: we allow them to centralize all our assets, they'll start
Speaker 1: to manipulate it, just like they did with gold. They
Speaker 1: started printing too many gold certificates. Um. And so you know,
Speaker 1: we have in the in the gold paper market, there's
Speaker 1: like five hundred paper ounces for everyone physical ounce being sold.
Speaker 1: And now we're starting to see like bitcoin, ETFs and
Speaker 1: all these types of things, and like we can just
Speaker 1: pull our bitcoin off the exchange and like we can
Speaker 1: hold them accountabill make sure they're like playing by the
Speaker 1: rules all the time. I mean, do you think that's
Speaker 1: a big piece of that as well? Yes, I think
Speaker 1: it's a huge piece. I think when we go back
Speaker 1: in um in history and like how did we get here, right,
Speaker 1: we all used gold independently. We used to chip those
Speaker 1: chips off of our gold block right to transact with people,
Speaker 1: and then we found an easier way to solve this
Speaker 1: issue of transacting by giving the bank our gold and
Speaker 1: they give us a piece of paper that was redeemable
Speaker 1: for that gold. And then the the issue rise like
Speaker 1: you speak of that. Now they had all this gold
Speaker 1: and they were, you know, doing paper or coins, and
Speaker 1: they could decide what percentage of gold or asset was
Speaker 1: within those right, how much did you get in return?
Speaker 1: And that led to printing. You know, they can they
Speaker 1: can print endless amounts of this helicopter paper money right
Speaker 1: anytime they want, and we have no ability to you
Speaker 1: audit that supply, We have no ability to demand those assets.
Speaker 1: We're just sort of in their hands. So I think
Speaker 1: the point is very different even in the way of
Speaker 1: using these sort of third parties is that you can't
Speaker 1: you can't make more bitcoin. You can independently audit the supply,
Speaker 1: you can see it publicly where it sits, and so
Speaker 1: they are held to a higher standard. But I do
Speaker 1: think that if we get into a habit of always
Speaker 1: relying on these third parties, we're going to find our
Speaker 1: thoughts self in a situation of that centralized entity and
Speaker 1: single point of failure. And that, in my opinion, is
Speaker 1: why self custody, even if you start off very simply
Speaker 1: should be the adiable for everyone. Yeah. Yeah, we gotta
Speaker 1: keep these uh got to keep these uh institutions accountable.
Speaker 1: I mean, otherwise we just have only ourselves to blame.
Speaker 1: You know, in the past, it wasn't our fault, you know,
Speaker 1: especially in futures um commodity, so bitcoin is considered a commodity,
Speaker 1: So oil, wheat, you know, things like that. We we
Speaker 1: can't take delivery of oil, like what am I going
Speaker 1: to do with that? And so you know you're kind
Speaker 1: of stuck with that. Even gold, like how do I
Speaker 1: take delivery of the gold? Um that we can take
Speaker 1: delivery of bitcoin with just clicking a button and it
Speaker 1: doesn't cost us anything, and so um. I guess man,
Speaker 1: if people don't want to take the responsibility to do that,
Speaker 1: they probably deserve what they're gonna get. Well, first of all, like,
Speaker 1: are you saying you can't independently audit the supply of oil? Mark?
Speaker 1: Like what are you doing with yourself? Um? But yes,
Speaker 1: so I do think that, like I said, everything has
Speaker 1: trade offs. Um. I do think that there will be
Speaker 1: people who just get exposed to bitcoin or crypto um
Speaker 1: through these third parties. But you're just getting financial exposures.
Speaker 1: So maybe it's about price action, right, You're not getting
Speaker 1: the benefits of a decentralized asset that you can own.
Speaker 1: You only get that if you are holding the keys. Um.
Speaker 1: But yes, we can hold them accountable because they can't
Speaker 1: just make up a number on a spreadsheet anymore. Right,
Speaker 1: we're taking that ability away from them. And that's what
Speaker 1: the point does is it aligns the incentives and allows
Speaker 1: us to audit absolutely everything. Yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 1: When when you buy it on on exchange, like well,
Speaker 1: not exchange, but like a robin Hood for example, or
Speaker 1: a cash app, um, you're not really or PayPal, I think, uh,
Speaker 1: some of those they don't allow you to withdraw it.
Speaker 1: So kind of to the point you just made, you're
Speaker 1: getting exposure to the price of bitcoin um, but you're
Speaker 1: not really participating in this decentralized revolution that's actually happening.
Speaker 1: You're not you're not you're not doing anything revolutionary. All
Speaker 1: you're literally doing is gambling and just betting on the price.
Speaker 1: And so that's that's a good point. So definitely think
Speaker 1: about one where you buy it. I mean, you should
Speaker 1: buy it at a place that allows you to withdraw it,
Speaker 1: and then of course the next step is to withdraw it.
Speaker 1: Maybe start small, right, I get it, it's scary. I've
Speaker 1: lost a lot of bitcoin um, anybody who's been in
Speaker 1: the space long enough has and so so start small
Speaker 1: doing that. I want to switch gears. I want to
Speaker 1: jump into some big news that happened this week. One
Speaker 1: of bitcoin's biggest people talk to one of the uh
Speaker 1: I don't know, psychology philosophies, world's biggest people, and there
Speaker 1: were some really good nuggets with that. You listen to
Speaker 1: the Mark Moss Show and with Justine Harper Misshotel and
Speaker 1: we're gonna be right back, all right, welcome back. You
Speaker 1: are listening to the Mark ma Show, where we talk
Speaker 1: about bitcoin each and every week. We talked about bitcoins
Speaker 1: and cryptocurrencies, decentralized revolution. We're talking about this entire movement
Speaker 1: that's going on. I'm here every week trying to give
Speaker 1: you the asymmetric information so you can participate in this
Speaker 1: asymmetric opportunity. I'm here with my good friend Justine Harper.
Speaker 1: You can find her on Twitter at Misshotel that's m
Speaker 1: s h O d l UM. I gotta warn you though,
Speaker 1: she can be a little snarky sometimes, but I love it.
Speaker 1: I love the doctor, so I'm so happy that she's here. UM.
Speaker 1: We were talking about UM this Wall Street Journal article
Speaker 1: about UM how to custom your coin and how to
Speaker 1: think through different types of wallets. She's the perfect perfect
Speaker 1: person to talk to about that because as she works
Speaker 1: for unchained Capital, which is a company that I used
Speaker 1: to help me secure my bitcoin. So check them out
Speaker 1: when you get a chance. Unchained Capital. UM, Justine, I
Speaker 1: want to talk about something else. So there's an article
Speaker 1: or actually, something big happened this week, and that was
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, who most people probably know by now, probably
Speaker 1: doesn't need a big introduction of who he is. UM
Speaker 1: probably one of the smartest people. I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: there's there's there's all different types of genius, I suppose, UM,
Speaker 1: but man, I think the world needs more people like
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, or at least we need him around for
Speaker 1: quite a bit longer to help educate people. UM. And
Speaker 1: he sat down with with Safety and Safety and Mos
Speaker 1: who's is a big bitcoin also kind of a philosopher,
Speaker 1: Austrian economist, UM, and it made made made big waves
Speaker 1: and I thought there were some really good things that
Speaker 1: came out of it. So a couple of things I
Speaker 1: saw was like Jordan Peterson kind of had this uh,
Speaker 1: this kind of aha moment. UM. Did you watch first
Speaker 1: of all, did you watch when he talked with a
Speaker 1: breed Love and Jon Wallace and all those guys you
Speaker 1: catch that? Yes? Yeah, no, that was great from a
Speaker 1: book club like this started as a book club and
Speaker 1: then somehow which is just so these are the these
Speaker 1: are some of the most amazing people in bitcoin, um
Speaker 1: talking to as you mentioned, like a man who needs
Speaker 1: no introduction. So it was definitely one of those moments
Speaker 1: that was like beautiful for everyone involved. But yes, so
Speaker 1: this is another one of those moments for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was so good. You know, because I love Jordan
Speaker 1: Pearson because he's so so smart. Um. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, he doesn't like rely on like I'm so smart,
Speaker 1: I know everything. He's actually very inquisitive, right, he loves
Speaker 1: to ask questions. He's a great interviewer because of that,
Speaker 1: um and and and uh yeah, there was probably probably
Speaker 1: not many people better equipped to talk to him than
Speaker 1: Breed Love and Valae because they were able to talk
Speaker 1: to him like on that level. While I would love
Speaker 1: to talk to him, I don't think I could talk
Speaker 1: to that same level like they were able to match him,
Speaker 1: you know. Kind of That's how I felt about anyway.
Speaker 1: Absolutely no. They have this way of like a very
Speaker 1: intellectual almost spiritual way of discussing things, and I feel
Speaker 1: like that's how he is. And they all also sort
Speaker 1: of practiced this extreme ownership way about them um, which
Speaker 1: that's one of the things I really love about Pearson um.
Speaker 1: But they do as well. So I thought that was
Speaker 1: a great match. And then safe Adan, who's one of
Speaker 1: my favorite people in the space. If you want to
Speaker 1: talk about Stark the a k A. Passionate, he's definitely
Speaker 1: one of those people. It's probably why we get along
Speaker 1: so well, so this was a great one. Um, that
Speaker 1: aha moment was amazing. But yes, I'll let you continue.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm right there with you. This was one
Speaker 1: of those moments that's like, Wow, I can't believe this
Speaker 1: is happening. Yeah, shout out to safety and too. You
Speaker 1: follow him on Twitter as well. He wrote the book
Speaker 1: The Bitcoin Standard, which is uh. I mean everybody should
Speaker 1: anyone listen to this at this point right now, should
Speaker 1: get that book, The Bitcoin Standard. He just released a
Speaker 1: new book I've pre ordered. I haven't got my copy yet,
Speaker 1: but it's called The Fiat Standard, which I'm sure is
Speaker 1: going to be equally as good. Um, so everybody check
Speaker 1: that out. But you know, one of the things about
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson, if you if you watch his content, is uh,
Speaker 1: he's got a lot of haters for because he doesn't
Speaker 1: tell people that it's okay, it's not your fault. He
Speaker 1: doesn't pander to that victim mentality, which I know you
Speaker 1: don't either. He's like, shut up, this is the hand
Speaker 1: that you're dealt like, deal with it, right, And so
Speaker 1: he's like a very matter of fact about things, which
Speaker 1: I I resonate with. I think more people need to
Speaker 1: hear UM. And and one of the things that I think,
Speaker 1: you know, as he was going through this, he said,
Speaker 1: he's like safety and said, like, there's no insiders in bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Bitcoin only has users. There's no admins. UM, there's nobody
Speaker 1: with a master key. There's nobody that controls it. And
Speaker 1: I think that was like a pretty big aspect that
Speaker 1: Jordan Peterson hit. And that's something that I think you
Speaker 1: and I talked about a lot. What does that mean
Speaker 1: that it has no admin, no insiders, Well, there's nobody, Uh,
Speaker 1: there's no centralized insitu. Right Like we kind of joke
Speaker 1: that bitcoin doesn't have a marketing team. But you know
Speaker 1: what else it doesn't have is some like terrible CEO
Speaker 1: telling us all what direction it's going to go in,
Speaker 1: right like, it truly is UM decided by the by consensus,
Speaker 1: which is the individuals running the software. And so there
Speaker 1: is no there's first no one who can just decide
Speaker 1: that you no longer can use bitcoin um. But also
Speaker 1: there's no one making these decisions, which does sometimes, uh
Speaker 1: look interesting as we all sort of figure it out.
Speaker 1: I think that a centralization sometimes can look smoother from
Speaker 1: the outside looking in UM, but it also has you know,
Speaker 1: it has a lot of downfall with the hitolized nature.
Speaker 1: So I do think that both of these individuals talk
Speaker 1: a lot about personal responsibility. So I think that that's
Speaker 1: something obviously that would come up about bitcoin because bitcoin is,
Speaker 1: you know, personal responsibility. You get absolute freedom if you're
Speaker 1: willing to take on that personal responsibility. Um, and yeah,
Speaker 1: there's nobody, there's nobody that can stop you from using bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Then I love that contrast. Like you said, right, like
Speaker 1: you get ultimate freedom, but you have to be willing
Speaker 1: to take the responsibility. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: times today people want the freedom, but they don't want
Speaker 1: the responsibility. Like I want ability to do this, but
Speaker 1: if something bad happens, then I want you to be
Speaker 1: responsible for it. Kind of a thing. Uh. Maybe that's
Speaker 1: why some people don't get bitcoins. I I think so
Speaker 1: very much. Um, I think that this sort of isn't
Speaker 1: just about bitcoin though. I think this idea of personal
Speaker 1: responsibility you can have these things, but you have to
Speaker 1: work for them is sort of something that we've moved
Speaker 1: away from in society. I mean, if you look at
Speaker 1: and then this is sort of my background. Before I
Speaker 1: got into bitcoin, I was very much into homesteady and
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to remove the middleman. And
Speaker 1: you know, this is why I was a gold holder,
Speaker 1: and I was like trying to learn how to, you know,
Speaker 1: replace products from the store with things I would buy
Speaker 1: or I'm sorry make instead of purchase. And so, like
Speaker 1: with everything in life, there is there's a balance, right,
Speaker 1: there's a trade off. If you want this freedom, you
Speaker 1: have to work a little bit harder. If you want
Speaker 1: this this pro you have to sort of work for it.
Speaker 1: And so bitcoin is that way. Um, it's one of
Speaker 1: those things that you can have the ultimate financial freedom,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's not gonna be handed to you. There
Speaker 1: are some steps you have to take. And I do
Speaker 1: think that we as a society of falling away from
Speaker 1: personal responsibility and extreme ownership kind of like what you
Speaker 1: mentioned is like you're responsible for the things you do,
Speaker 1: and you're also response well for the outcome of your life.
Speaker 1: There are things bumps along the way, and how you
Speaker 1: deal with them sort of defines who you are as
Speaker 1: an individual. But at the end of the day, it's
Speaker 1: you and what you choose to do makes you who
Speaker 1: you are. Um, And I think that resonates a lot
Speaker 1: with individuals who kind of get into bitcoin. Is that like, oh,
Speaker 1: I I can choose how much freedom I have here.
Speaker 1: I it's it's here. I can use it. I can
Speaker 1: do whatever I want with it. I can, I can
Speaker 1: use it in different levels. Right, But it's up to
Speaker 1: me to actually take those steps into it. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: that goes back to what we're talking about in the
Speaker 1: earlier segment about the custody. Right, you have to have
Speaker 1: that responsibility. You want on to say that the aspect
Speaker 1: that and um, any user is seen and treated equally
Speaker 1: by the bitcoin network, which is super powerful. Right, it's revolutionary.
Speaker 1: Everyone is is is equally. Um. The fiat currency is opposite.
Speaker 1: So the people that produce the money and our closest
Speaker 1: to the money supply get unequal treatment. Uh. There's just
Speaker 1: not a system that's fair at all. Yeah. I am
Speaker 1: one of my favorite bitcoin scenes. UM. I do actually
Speaker 1: have this as a little sign on my bookshelf is
Speaker 1: Bitcoin doesn't care. And what I think that means is
Speaker 1: that like bitcoin doesn't care where you came from. It
Speaker 1: doesn't care about your race, your gender, it doesn't care
Speaker 1: about your income level. It is equal to all. It
Speaker 1: is the ultimate equalizer. Everyone has the equal chance to
Speaker 1: partake in the network. Anybody can run the software very
Speaker 1: easily and cheaply at home. Um, and you have the
Speaker 1: same access as anyone else. And no matter if someone
Speaker 1: owns more than you, it doesn't matter. They don't get
Speaker 1: to decide what happens to your state just because they
Speaker 1: own more. Uh. They don't decide what happens to your
Speaker 1: asset because they don't like you. You know, Bitcoin is
Speaker 1: for enemies that you don't get to decide who uses
Speaker 1: it and how. Uh. And so I do truly believe
Speaker 1: it's the ultimate equalizer. And I find that extremely revolutionary.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's there's places in the world that women
Speaker 1: aren't allowed to have bank accounts, but they can have
Speaker 1: a bitcoin wallet, they can hold the keys, they can
Speaker 1: take their wealth across uh, you know, state or country
Speaker 1: lines and nothing can stop them. And and that's that's
Speaker 1: so revolutionary. I love that you said, um, nobody can
Speaker 1: say who has it, how or or how they use it.
Speaker 1: That's an important piece. I want to come back. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about that and a couple other things
Speaker 1: that Jordan Peterson said that some of his big AHA moments,
Speaker 1: because I think maybe the people listening we'll have some
Speaker 1: more of those aha moments as well. If you're listening
Speaker 1: to the Mark mos Show, we're talking about bitcoin and
Speaker 1: cryptocurrencies and of course this giant decentralized revolution. I'm with
Speaker 1: Miss Justine Hotel. Miss Hotel, I'm sorry, Justine Harper. UM.
Speaker 1: We're talking about bitcoin and we will be right back.
Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. You are listening to the Mark
Speaker 1: Moa Show and we're talking about bitcoin and cryptocurrencies and
Speaker 1: the decentralized revolution. I'm in the studio with my good
Speaker 1: friend Justine Harper. You can find her on Twitter at
Speaker 1: miss Hotel. UM. Of course, I am one Mark Moss
Speaker 1: on Twitter. Find us, follow us, shoot us a question,
Speaker 1: tell us you heard us here. Justine worked for Unchained Capital,
Speaker 1: which the company I used helped me secure my bitcoin.
Speaker 1: We're talking about that in the earlier segment, but right
Speaker 1: now we're talking about UM. One of the greatest thinkers
Speaker 1: alive today, UM Jordan Peterson. UM was matched up with
Speaker 1: another awesome great thinker, Safety UM, in the bitcoin space,
Speaker 1: and it was really cool, Um to listen to some
Speaker 1: of the experts and to order to watch it. If
Speaker 1: you've got to do that, of what happened, because you're
Speaker 1: watching Jordan Peterson this, you know, one of the smartest
Speaker 1: guys in the world, but also still very curious. Um
Speaker 1: kind of have these realizations and he said, like, Um,
Speaker 1: from the mainstream perspective, money is the creation of the state.
Speaker 1: Most people think, from the mainstream perspective that money is
Speaker 1: the creation of the state, and the only question is
Speaker 1: what is the state's role in the management of money? Right,
Speaker 1: that's what safe safe said, but but from it. But
Speaker 1: really money is the product of the market and not
Speaker 1: the invention of the state. And I think that's one
Speaker 1: thing that most people just have never really even taken
Speaker 1: the time to think about. Like we just think like, well,
Speaker 1: the government makes money, they print money, they control money,
Speaker 1: they control interest rates, they control the supply, and we're
Speaker 1: just victims along like a ship without a rudder, just
Speaker 1: whatever they decided to do to us. But it's like, no,
Speaker 1: that's not how it is. It's not how it should be,
Speaker 1: and that's not how it has to be. And now
Speaker 1: we have another option for that. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 1: it's interesting to think about how they've kept it that way, right,
Speaker 1: Like it takes a lot of energy and a lot
Speaker 1: of effort to ensure that their money is what everyone's using, right,
Speaker 1: that this is the the account that we're using, right,
Speaker 1: the form of money that we're using. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean money is just decided by the market. Whatever is
Speaker 1: the most usable, whatever is the better store of value,
Speaker 1: whatever is the better too easier to transact, whatever the
Speaker 1: masses choose to use is essentially that's that's the history
Speaker 1: of money, right is it's used as a transfer of wealth. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, this idea that it's it's um produced by
Speaker 1: the government and decide it by the government is something
Speaker 1: I think we've all just sort of accepted, but we
Speaker 1: don't have to, and I think that quite sort of
Speaker 1: allows us to easily opt out of that, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: very flawed structure and the idea of what money should
Speaker 1: be today. Yeah, you know, one thing that the our
Speaker 1: our leaders want to tell us, right is that you know,
Speaker 1: we need to regulate it because if not, things could
Speaker 1: get really bad. Um. People, But before the break, I
Speaker 1: think you had said, um, we you know, we have
Speaker 1: the money and we can use it however we want, right,
Speaker 1: whoever whoever wants to use it. As you kind of reference,
Speaker 1: in some countries women can't have bank accounts. Whoever wants it,
Speaker 1: so women and however they want. And I think they
Speaker 1: try to scare people by saying, oh, but terrorists are
Speaker 1: going to use it, They're gonna use money for all
Speaker 1: these really bad things, um, and and that could happen, right,
Speaker 1: I mean that could happen. Um. But I think you
Speaker 1: have to look at like a cost benefit analysis, right, So, like, um,
Speaker 1: for the for the very few people that may potentially
Speaker 1: do something bad with it, which will find another way anyway,
Speaker 1: what's the greater good that could come from it, right
Speaker 1: versus trying to prevent people from using it, which you
Speaker 1: really can't anyway, and then you're penalizing everybody else on
Speaker 1: top of it, right, I mean that's a massive difference. Yes, agree,
Speaker 1: this is this is some of my favorite uh scare.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, like like somehow people aren't using
Speaker 1: dollars to do illegal things, right, Like like that's something
Speaker 1: that we're supposed to believe that these things aren't used already.
Speaker 1: So there was there was no crime before bitcoin, right
Speaker 1: never never know, the dollars have never been used in
Speaker 1: any sort of crime whatsoever. They're totally it's totally regulated.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I think it's sort of laughable. But
Speaker 1: I think this is one of those things where people
Speaker 1: use here to try to direct people in the way
Speaker 1: that they want them to go. And this is one
Speaker 1: of those things. And yes, I mean there will be
Speaker 1: a legal activity that happens in the form of bitcoin, right,
Speaker 1: we're using bitcoin is the money to pay for that, um.
Speaker 1: But if we we go to a place where now
Speaker 1: we get to decide who uses this form of money, well,
Speaker 1: then who gets to decide and who decides what's right
Speaker 1: and wrong? And now we're back to where we are now,
Speaker 1: where we have um, you know, tyrants and government entities
Speaker 1: sort of discriminating against people by not allowing them to
Speaker 1: have access to banking facilities. And so I think that
Speaker 1: it's just a really dangerous slope that you go down.
Speaker 1: And I do agree with what he said that there's
Speaker 1: trade offs for everything. There's a balance of pros and
Speaker 1: cons and allowing anyone to transact is much more beneficial
Speaker 1: than the idea that okay, somebody might use it illegally. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they used dollars for that. I I just it's it's
Speaker 1: one of those things where it's like on the if
Speaker 1: nobody is familiar with the fud dice Nick Carter came
Speaker 1: up with some dice that essentially have all of these
Speaker 1: like different sides of fud that kind of come up
Speaker 1: over and over again and are shot down, but they
Speaker 1: are reoccurring. But so this is one of those, and
Speaker 1: I think it is scary for people to think of.
Speaker 1: But when you zoom out and think about how our
Speaker 1: current financial system works and think about the laws and
Speaker 1: having a system that can be controlled by centralized entity
Speaker 1: and people can be cut off for it for whatever
Speaker 1: reason they choose, Right, that's that's just not that's not
Speaker 1: positive for humanity. Um. It doesn't work out for the masses. Um.
Speaker 1: And in my opinion, it just leads to discrimination through
Speaker 1: a financial system and essentially control. You know, people are
Speaker 1: controlled by their money, which is yeah, something I really
Speaker 1: think we have the chance that your away from the
Speaker 1: fiat money system. I think Jimmy Song put it in
Speaker 1: this book Thank God for Bitcoin is another good book
Speaker 1: you should probably all go read, and he talked about
Speaker 1: how people think that money is neutral, it's a tool
Speaker 1: can be used for good or bad. But but fiat
Speaker 1: money is not that. It's actually a system built on theft,
Speaker 1: which inflation is theft. It's a system built on lies
Speaker 1: and deceit because they don't tell us what they're doing,
Speaker 1: they don't tell us how much there is. So it's
Speaker 1: a system built on theft, lies in the cit and
Speaker 1: so anything built on that is inherently evil and incentivizes
Speaker 1: evil behavior, incentivizes people to to to steal and and
Speaker 1: to lie and to see etcetera. And so maybe a
Speaker 1: lot of the stuff they're trying to protect us from
Speaker 1: wouldn't really even be that big of a deal if
Speaker 1: we had an honest system that we could build the
Speaker 1: world off of, um like almost And to your point,
Speaker 1: I mean, those people could use bitcoin, but they probably
Speaker 1: drove a car too. Could the car have been you know,
Speaker 1: they probably drink waters water bad too, right, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: like how far do you want to go? They breathe? There?
Speaker 1: Should we ban air to you know, like all those things?
Speaker 1: It's just yeah, yeah, I mean all those things have
Speaker 1: But but you wouldn't ban air because everybody needs air
Speaker 1: and air is better because we can live with air.
Speaker 1: So we'll have to do the trade offs. And and
Speaker 1: I guess the same you could say about having honest money,
Speaker 1: like an honest system of of ledger that people couldn't
Speaker 1: control UM so anyway, no, for sure, And I think
Speaker 1: that's one of those things that it's a nutrient and
Speaker 1: we could dig into this. I know we could dig
Speaker 1: into this for a whild market. But if we start
Speaker 1: to think about how the dollar as used and what
Speaker 1: we as taxpayers fund, I mean, are we as individuals
Speaker 1: okay with all of the the how government is spending
Speaker 1: our funds? And I just mean, like what countries have
Speaker 1: we bonded this bomb this week? Right? Like? What have
Speaker 1: we paid for that was extremely evil? Um? And does
Speaker 1: nobody question how their dollars are used? And so anytime
Speaker 1: that comes up, they think it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that it's really easy to scare people in that way.
Speaker 1: But if you just take a few minutes to kind
Speaker 1: of zoom out, you realize really quickly why that's not
Speaker 1: really a concern and it's actually a benefit of the
Speaker 1: network that nobody can decide you as an individual are
Speaker 1: now a trader or a quote unquote terrorists because you've
Speaker 1: said something on social media that they didn't like and
Speaker 1: cut you off from your assets. So, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: is just a really dangerous lope that we've gone down.
Speaker 1: And and I just yes, it's open to all and
Speaker 1: that's beneficial. That's such a good point. Um, if you
Speaker 1: think about, um, what is the dollar? What is what
Speaker 1: does the dollar to allow? And so that's a great point. Um.
Speaker 1: I saw some stuff just I think the last day
Speaker 1: or two of what's going on with little girls in Afghanistan.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to repeat it because it was I
Speaker 1: have I have girls and it was just devastating. But
Speaker 1: if you if you know what I'm talking about, I mean,
Speaker 1: if you saw what's going on Afghanistan with the little
Speaker 1: girls right now this week today, Um, and that's because
Speaker 1: of what the US has been doing in there with
Speaker 1: their dollars, you know. And uh, it's if you want
Speaker 1: to start looking at cost benefit analysis, I think it's
Speaker 1: easy to see what happens when to to your point,
Speaker 1: Justine or your word of tyrants, um end up with
Speaker 1: an unlimited money supply and can manipulate everything, I mean,
Speaker 1: lockdowns and everything. Everything happens because of that money printer.
Speaker 1: And so that's what bitcoin is doing. Um, it's separating money,
Speaker 1: money and state, and uh it's it's something much bigger.
Speaker 1: By the way, you're listening to the Mark Moss Show,
Speaker 1: if you haven't guests by now. Of course we're talking
Speaker 1: about bitcoin, we're talking about removing money and state. We're
Speaker 1: talking about the decentralized revolution. That's here. I'm in the
Speaker 1: studio with Justine Harper. You can find her on Twitter
Speaker 1: at miss Tootal. That's ms h O D l Um.
Speaker 1: Of course I'm one Mark Moss. She works at Unchained
Speaker 1: Capital if you want to check them out. And that's it.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening.