1
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I'm Akshatrati in Shamel Shake Egypt. Over

2
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: the past couple of days here at CUP twenty seven,

3
00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: we heard from dozens of world leaders, from big polluting

4
00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:18,280
Speaker 1: nations to sinking island states. We are on a highway

5
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,759
Speaker 1: to climates hell, with our food still on the accelerator.

6
00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,920
Speaker 1: I don't need to repeat that this is the cop

7
00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 1: that needs action. I suspect that more than forty percent

8
00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,199
Speaker 1: of our debt is directly linked to the impacts of

9
00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:38,600
Speaker 1: climate change. Loss and damage can no longer be swept

10
00:00:38,760 --> 00:00:46,080
Speaker 1: under the rug. Show me the money might seem like

11
00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,120
Speaker 1: a crassway of summarizing the main topic of discussion here,

12
00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,880
Speaker 1: but it gets to the heart of what the world

13
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,840
Speaker 1: must do to tackle climate change. Later in the show,

14
00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:57,120
Speaker 1: we'll hear from one of those world leaders, the Prime

15
00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,960
Speaker 1: Minister of the Bahamas, Philip Davis. At first, I'm talking

16
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,399
Speaker 1: to Bloo mcgreen's executive editor, Aaron Ratkoff. Aaron, welcome to

17
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,960
Speaker 1: the show. Thanks h for having me. Now, have you

18
00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,800
Speaker 1: subscribed to zero Apple Podcasts yet? I subscribe on Overcast,

19
00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:13,560
Speaker 1: but I also just put it on all the other

20
00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,680
Speaker 1: podcast apps to help your rating perfect. That's exactly what

21
00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:19,840
Speaker 1: a good boss should do. Huh, yeah, that's right. Now

22
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 1: getting serious here, what have you made of the speeches

23
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:27,160
Speaker 1: so far? Well, you know, COP speeches are kind of

24
00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:29,440
Speaker 1: a genre on to themselves. The sort of slogan for

25
00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,440
Speaker 1: this one is to have it be an implementation COP

26
00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:34,759
Speaker 1: and it's also been a real emphasis on the fact

27
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,000
Speaker 1: that it's in Africa, so there is a bit more

28
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:42,560
Speaker 1: focus on the equity of finance and where the money is,

29
00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 1: as you alluded to in your intro, So you see

30
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,080
Speaker 1: that in speeches. I mean. One of the things I

31
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,680
Speaker 1: did today before checking out the plenary was go to

32
00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: a press conference with South Africa's President Cyro Ramaposa. That's

33
00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,200
Speaker 1: been one of the big storylines everyone's been following, what's

34
00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,400
Speaker 1: going to become of the climate finance deal that's going

35
00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,080
Speaker 1: to bring billions of dollars from the Europeans and the

36
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 1: Americans into South Africa to retire their terrible coal fleet,

37
00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:13,520
Speaker 1: makes them the thirteenth biggest emitter in the world. And

38
00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,120
Speaker 1: I sort of hoped by checking out this press conference,

39
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:17,840
Speaker 1: I might be the reporter who was there when he

40
00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:20,959
Speaker 1: announced that there was a breakthrough, which was not the case.

41
00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: He to sort reiterated where where things are, but you

42
00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,880
Speaker 1: know where things are is the South Africans want to

43
00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,400
Speaker 1: have more grants and or very very discounted loans because

44
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,920
Speaker 1: they carry a lot of sovereign debt and they don't

45
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 1: want the retirement of their coal fleet to come with

46
00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,440
Speaker 1: more debt strings attached. And so he was reiterating that request,

47
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,239
Speaker 1: and that was something you heard a bunch throughout the Plannery.

48
00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,240
Speaker 1: Speeches today were a lot of developing countries very articulately

49
00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,440
Speaker 1: stating the fact that they want more finance and they

50
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:52,920
Speaker 1: don't want more debt. In the genre of climate speeches

51
00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:56,520
Speaker 1: made at cop another theme that repeats itself is just

52
00:02:56,639 --> 00:03:01,280
Speaker 1: the moral outrage of rich countries not doing enough when

53
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:05,200
Speaker 1: developing countries are suffering the most impacts. We heard it

54
00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,000
Speaker 1: from Mia Mortley, who's the Prime Minister of Barbados, who

55
00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:14,399
Speaker 1: said this world looks still too much like it did

56
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:22,680
Speaker 1: when it was part of an imperialistic empire. The global

57
00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:27,920
Speaker 1: North borrows between interest rates of between one to four percent,

58
00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,200
Speaker 1: the global South of fourteen percent, and then we wonder

59
00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 1: why the just energy partnerships are not working. I think

60
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,480
Speaker 1: that is something that stands out more at this COP

61
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,960
Speaker 1: because we are not seeing the huge new announcements of

62
00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: net zero targets like happened last year. The COP twenty

63
00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,840
Speaker 1: six started with India's surprise announcement about their net zero goal.

64
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 1: There was a real competition between the high emitting nations

65
00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:57,160
Speaker 1: to show that they were doing the most to lower

66
00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,000
Speaker 1: their emissions. That's not a real big texture. This parts

67
00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 1: what fills the space where we're not seeing these big

68
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,160
Speaker 1: bold declarations of what the high emitters are going to do.

69
00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,960
Speaker 1: Are these you know, discussions of equity and you know rightfully,

70
00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:13,240
Speaker 1: so you're hearing from the countries who are suffering the

71
00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,840
Speaker 1: impacts of climate change, who have not benefited from development

72
00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:20,520
Speaker 1: and caused emissions, making the moral claim on the whole

73
00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:23,640
Speaker 1: assembly with the inclusion of loss and damage on the

74
00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:25,720
Speaker 1: agenda for the first time, and that will become one

75
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 1: of the real big fixtures for the rest of the

76
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,640
Speaker 1: two weeks that we're here. And you were in the

77
00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: blue zone for all this the place where all the

78
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 1: action happens at COP twenty seven. What was the atmosphere like,

79
00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,960
Speaker 1: so blue zone you mean like the pavilions and all that.

80
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,840
Speaker 1: That's right, Okay, that's called the blue zone. Yes, you know,

81
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 1: to get anywhere at COP you end up wandering through

82
00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,080
Speaker 1: a kind of surreal trade show environment and through in

83
00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: the blue zone. You know, every every nation in the

84
00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,320
Speaker 1: world basically or every every nation that's here has their

85
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:02,360
Speaker 1: own set up. It. It feels like, you know, an

86
00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,239
Speaker 1: electronics convention in some sense, where you know, instead of products,

87
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:09,320
Speaker 1: everyone is got climate messaging as there as the thing

88
00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:12,600
Speaker 1: that they're giving away. It's really cool, but it's also

89
00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: really weird to see all of the booths that are

90
00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:17,760
Speaker 1: just repeating the same kind of climate slogans. I mean,

91
00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,000
Speaker 1: do you do you find it strange walking around the

92
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,840
Speaker 1: climate booths? He I mean, the money you pay shows up.

93
00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:28,760
Speaker 1: So the UAE has a big booth in the pavilion,

94
00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,800
Speaker 1: and right opposite it is a small table that is

95
00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:36,599
Speaker 1: the Nujer booth, and so it shows up. If you

96
00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,279
Speaker 1: have more money, you're able to tell more people in

97
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,120
Speaker 1: the world what it is that you're doing on climate. Yeah,

98
00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,720
Speaker 1: the disparities that are part of all climate coverage exist

99
00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:50,599
Speaker 1: within this weird microcosm of national booths. I noticed this year,

100
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,839
Speaker 1: maybe different from the last time. I didn't notice it.

101
00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,919
Speaker 1: At COP twenty six, there seemed to be an incredibly

102
00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,920
Speaker 1: complete representation of African countries whose booths seem more sporadic

103
00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:02,719
Speaker 1: COP twenty six, but often they, like to your point,

104
00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,640
Speaker 1: had these very small, minimal booths, and then you would

105
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,920
Speaker 1: stop by the United States Complex and it would be

106
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,920
Speaker 1: you know, quite grand or Saudi Arabia's booth. It was

107
00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,120
Speaker 1: on a booth. It was like a twenty five percent

108
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,400
Speaker 1: of an entire convention hall, and it was very elaborate

109
00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 1: with tons of screens and wide open space, which was

110
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,919
Speaker 1: at a real premium inside the blue zone today. You

111
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,240
Speaker 1: were at the COP in Glasgow last year. How do

112
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,560
Speaker 1: you feel about being in a beach shot down this year? Yeah,

113
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,240
Speaker 1: if I have to have my pick, I think it

114
00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:32,320
Speaker 1: was a it was a nicer experience when Copp was

115
00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,520
Speaker 1: in a real city, when it felt like it was

116
00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400
Speaker 1: part of what was going on. And I imagine that

117
00:06:37,440 --> 00:06:40,840
Speaker 1: you've also noticed that there's just no people around who

118
00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 1: aren't participating in the COP and that's a real big

119
00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,040
Speaker 1: change from last year and something that makes this one

120
00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,200
Speaker 1: feel distinctive. And that absence of normal life is something

121
00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: I'm just noticing a lot. But you can't complain about

122
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,640
Speaker 1: the warm weather and getting to be you know, beach

123
00:06:56,640 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 1: adjacent for a week in November. Well, thanks for coming

124
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:07,400
Speaker 1: on the show anytime after now talking of beaches. After

125
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:09,720
Speaker 1: the break, I speak with the Prime Minister of the Bahamas,

126
00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,920
Speaker 1: Philip Davis, about how his country is being affected by

127
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,360
Speaker 1: climate change and what parts exist for an island nation.

128
00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: In twenty nineteen, a category five hurricane hate Abacco and

129
00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 1: Grand Bahama, two of the islands in the Bahama Archipelago.

130
00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,840
Speaker 1: This costs several billion dollars of damage. And earlier this

131
00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 1: year you said that you expect these kinds of storms

132
00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 1: to become the norm. That's what climate change does. There's

133
00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,080
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk around this corp about one

134
00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:00,280
Speaker 1: point five degrees celsius as the target that it might

135
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,400
Speaker 1: be missed. What would it mean for Bahamas if one

136
00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 1: point five degrees celsius is missed be devastating for the Bahamas.

137
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:12,360
Speaker 1: It's already recognized that my country, which is an ocean

138
00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,960
Speaker 1: state spread over one hundred thousand square miles, is most

139
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:23,960
Speaker 1: vulnerable to the consequence of climate change. Of our land

140
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 1: Masks is less than three meters above sea level. The

141
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:33,200
Speaker 1: warming of the waters, rising of the temperature impacts marine life,

142
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: but hence it may impact our blue economy in respect

143
00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:41,880
Speaker 1: to the fisheries and other marine life because they're impacted

144
00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 1: by the warming of the waters and we don't have

145
00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,520
Speaker 1: any time Now it's no longer an existential threat, is

146
00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:59,000
Speaker 1: a crisis for us and we can't outrun the consequences

147
00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,880
Speaker 1: and either going to be climate refugees or we'll find

148
00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,319
Speaker 1: ourselves in what e graves. As you mentioned, our Condorian

149
00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 1: costs US but three point four billion dollars in loss

150
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: and damage. Yeah, we still don't know how many flies

151
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: for lost are We still trying to pull ourselves out

152
00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,280
Speaker 1: of it. If you profile our debt, I suspect that

153
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,000
Speaker 1: more than forty percent of our debt is directly linked

154
00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:30,199
Speaker 1: to the impacts of climate change. Right now, we are

155
00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,640
Speaker 1: talking at the sidelines of twenty seven. We are here

156
00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,880
Speaker 1: in a room with lots of people around us focusing

157
00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,800
Speaker 1: on loss and damage. Over the weekend there was a

158
00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 1: breakthrough for the first time loss and damage is on

159
00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,959
Speaker 1: the agenda at a cop meeting. Now, Bahama has contributed

160
00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:52,480
Speaker 1: less than point oh one percent of historical emissions. What

161
00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:55,960
Speaker 1: will you be pushing for at this conference for loss

162
00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,440
Speaker 1: and damage? Well, we need to have an acknowledgement first

163
00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:05,640
Speaker 1: that for the Bahamas, quite apart from our we're being

164
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:10,600
Speaker 1: less least responsible for emissions. We also play another role

165
00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,040
Speaker 1: our sea grasses, mangroves, corals. We have become one of

166
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,680
Speaker 1: the largest carbon sink of the world, and so we

167
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,200
Speaker 1: have been the garbage collectors and we think it's time

168
00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,079
Speaker 1: first to be paid for it. And what I'm looking

169
00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,040
Speaker 1: forward to. First of all, it's an acknowledgment that the

170
00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 1: industrialized world that became wealthy as they are today was

171
00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 1: as the direct results of their use of fossil fuel

172
00:10:38,280 --> 00:10:44,679
Speaker 1: and coal. Should they not being held responsible for that?

173
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:48,640
Speaker 1: Now we understand that there has to be a transition,

174
00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:53,840
Speaker 1: and that transition may require some rethinking and reworking as

175
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:58,600
Speaker 1: to what I call the details and modalities as to

176
00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:03,480
Speaker 1: how we arrive at considering liability. And I know that

177
00:11:03,559 --> 00:11:09,120
Speaker 1: they don't want liability to be a blank check, but

178
00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,160
Speaker 1: these are things we could talk about, but at least

179
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:15,400
Speaker 1: let's acknowledge it. Let's look at the smaller development state.

180
00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:20,520
Speaker 1: It's like us, right that has has suffered so and

181
00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,160
Speaker 1: carried the burden of the world for so long, and

182
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,480
Speaker 1: they're thinking that we should push liability to talk about

183
00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:32,520
Speaker 1: to twenty twenty four. That is disappointing because all we're

184
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:38,079
Speaker 1: trying to do is identify, so what is really necessary

185
00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:45,800
Speaker 1: to mitigate, adapt and to protect ourselves in the future. Yeah,

186
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,800
Speaker 1: how are you working with other Caribbean nations on loss

187
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:55,040
Speaker 1: and damage? We have a consensus on a issue. In fact,

188
00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:59,880
Speaker 1: in August of this year, I held a UNFCC conference

189
00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 1: in the Bahamas for the first time of all the

190
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,719
Speaker 1: Caibbean leaders, so we could have a consensus on the

191
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 1: way forward and have a single voice here in respect

192
00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:12,840
Speaker 1: to what we expect. One of the outcomes of that

193
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,679
Speaker 1: meeting is to suggest that perhaps on oil exports, two

194
00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:23,679
Speaker 1: percent levy or tax be placed on oil exports and

195
00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,760
Speaker 1: that people aren't a fund to help to fund damages

196
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,800
Speaker 1: and losses. As a results, me and Motley Prime Minister Barbados,

197
00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:34,839
Speaker 1: who's been a great friend of yours but also a

198
00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:39,079
Speaker 1: big champion of debt relief for countries, especially those affected

199
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,719
Speaker 1: by climate change. She has said that Barbados would have

200
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,280
Speaker 1: access to eighteen percent of its national income if it

201
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: were not stuck in existing debt payments. Has the Bahamas

202
00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,599
Speaker 1: recovery since Tom Dorian been hampered by the need to

203
00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: pay back its debt. The challenge with the depth issue

204
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,280
Speaker 1: for the smaller developing states that as soon as you

205
00:13:06,880 --> 00:13:09,920
Speaker 1: start to see the light at the end of the tunnel,

206
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,599
Speaker 1: here comes another catastrophe. And what happens is that the

207
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:20,199
Speaker 1: multilaterals and lending ages they're not going to to donate.

208
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 1: They expect you to borrow again. And so as you

209
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:28,440
Speaker 1: keep borrowing, the death sustainability levels comes at a whack

210
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,199
Speaker 1: of what they expect from your country. And so the

211
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:35,360
Speaker 1: social cycle that you did because you break out of

212
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:42,520
Speaker 1: it by making those responsible accountable, those responsible accountable, that's

213
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,760
Speaker 1: how they do so. M Prime Minister mostly was a

214
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,120
Speaker 1: great friend of mine. That's a very very effective voice.

215
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,000
Speaker 1: I support her. We've been collaborating on these issues and

216
00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:58,079
Speaker 1: how voices being heard loud and clear. Let's come to

217
00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,439
Speaker 1: the point you were making about blue carbon, which is

218
00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:08,199
Speaker 1: the carbon that is stored in mangroves and seaweed. The

219
00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,480
Speaker 1: Bahamas wants to become the first country to sell blue

220
00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:14,760
Speaker 1: carbon credits, and you've said something like three hundred million

221
00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,000
Speaker 1: dollars worth could be sold as a way to finance

222
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,960
Speaker 1: the Bahama transition. You've also said that those will be

223
00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:26,520
Speaker 1: generated from these sea grass and mangroves. But the offset

224
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,560
Speaker 1: market is going through a crisis of credibility. There are

225
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,600
Speaker 1: a lot of cheap offsets that don't work that have

226
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,680
Speaker 1: got many people questioning whether to buy offsets as a

227
00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:39,640
Speaker 1: way to solve the climate problem. Have you found willing

228
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,560
Speaker 1: buyers for your blue carbon credits? Well, let me start

229
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,760
Speaker 1: up by saying that the three hundred million you speak

230
00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:50,800
Speaker 1: of it was an estimate by a third party, and

231
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:55,760
Speaker 1: I'd received unsolicited offers of that amount for our carbon

232
00:14:55,840 --> 00:15:02,120
Speaker 1: credits without us having even I deifying the and verifying

233
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 1: the extent of our asset. We feel that it's worth

234
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,440
Speaker 1: much more than that we think is sustainable, And yes

235
00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:17,640
Speaker 1: we do. There are a number of willing buyers. I

236
00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,800
Speaker 1: understand the offset market. I mean the issue that's happening

237
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 1: in the offsetting. And we also have to be concerned

238
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,240
Speaker 1: about the offset because we don't want that to be

239
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:31,280
Speaker 1: used an excuse for companies. For example, I'm saying, well,

240
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to emit ten tons and I'm going to

241
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 1: buy twenty tons. And therefore and so embedded in any

242
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:45,080
Speaker 1: kind of arrangement has to also be the embed an

243
00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,680
Speaker 1: initiative that places on the purchaser they that does not

244
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 1: excuse them from their commitment to reduce carbon footprint. But

245
00:15:57,320 --> 00:16:01,880
Speaker 1: we do have a number of inquiries as we speak.

246
00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: There's already some precedent to this before, Yes, in green spaces.

247
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,120
Speaker 1: So in Brazil there was the Amazon Fund that was

248
00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,400
Speaker 1: funded by Norway and Germany. Uh, it wasn't for credits,

249
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:22,400
Speaker 1: it was simply to protect. Would it be possible that

250
00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 1: you may explore options which are not tied to offsetting,

251
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,040
Speaker 1: but just try to protection. Well an article six they

252
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:36,280
Speaker 1: six they speak about additionality, which is to protection perservation. Um.

253
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 1: I have another innovative thought and respect to that. We

254
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 1: have a number of companies who believed that oil companies

255
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,760
Speaker 1: that believe that in our in our waters, I mean

256
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,000
Speaker 1: we have oil deposits in our waters, and they wanted

257
00:16:55,080 --> 00:16:59,760
Speaker 1: drill um what we made. We could consider, for example,

258
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 1: having it verified that we do in fact of all

259
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,640
Speaker 1: reserves and then we could cap it and then say well,

260
00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,320
Speaker 1: we will not produce if you pay us for to

261
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:16,560
Speaker 1: remain in the ground. So that is not off the

262
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 1: table for us when we think about it. But I

263
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:23,359
Speaker 1: have not moved to engaging in these companies yet. But

264
00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:27,480
Speaker 1: as I thought we could look at now The last

265
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:30,440
Speaker 1: climate commitment that the Bahamas made to the United Nations,

266
00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 1: the NDC was in twenty fifteen. As a party to

267
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:39,080
Speaker 1: the Paris Agreement, all parties, including Obamas, is required to

268
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:43,919
Speaker 1: update its ambition on climate Obamas contributes a very small amount,

269
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,600
Speaker 1: but everybody has to do its part. When will Bahamas

270
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:51,840
Speaker 1: update its NDC. We've just updated it and we'll be

271
00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:57,480
Speaker 1: setting it this week. Wonderful. Yeah. To understand what the

272
00:17:57,520 --> 00:18:00,560
Speaker 1: Bahama's new climate commitments mean, I got to speak to

273
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,520
Speaker 1: one of the Prime Minister's advisors who had just sent

274
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 1: the document to the United Nations literally uploaded in this morning.

275
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:11,879
Speaker 1: So I'm doctor Ryanna Neely Murphy. I'm the director of

276
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:15,200
Speaker 1: the Department of Environment to Planning and Protection in the Bahamas. Now,

277
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:19,520
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister says that the goal is not being updated,

278
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,080
Speaker 1: it's just an updated NDC. Yes. Why our initial NDC

279
00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,560
Speaker 1: was based predominantly on assistance that we would receive from

280
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,440
Speaker 1: the international community, and until such time we have received

281
00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,920
Speaker 1: very limited assistance from the international community. In order to

282
00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,840
Speaker 1: meet our efforts. We're using the Ring Climate Fund and

283
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:42,159
Speaker 1: the Global Environment Facility to assist us, but a lot

284
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,360
Speaker 1: of that funding, you know, it's very restricted, and it's

285
00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:49,600
Speaker 1: very it's slow incoming, and then coupling with the impacts

286
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,320
Speaker 1: of COVID, much of the work that we were supposed

287
00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: to do over the last two years did not get done.

288
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 1: So we are at a place where we're still looking

289
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:03,879
Speaker 1: at thirty percent of our forester reserve. We are looking

290
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,240
Speaker 1: at expanding our marine protected areas and making headways in

291
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,160
Speaker 1: the transportation sector as well as adaptation. So we're looking

292
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:20,840
Speaker 1: adaptation has expanded. We we're looking into improving our coastal resilience,

293
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:25,760
Speaker 1: early warning systems and etc. In adaption to adaptation to

294
00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: climate change. And what are you doing on electricity, which

295
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 1: tends to be the cheapest solution you can deploy now.

296
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,720
Speaker 1: So the Bahamas does have a thirty percent by twenty

297
00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 1: thirty gold and very proud to say that in recent

298
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:44,000
Speaker 1: years we've made quite a lot of strides, made good

299
00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,320
Speaker 1: headway into meeting that goal. Because Bamas was run completely

300
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: on oil powered electricity. We were until two thousand and

301
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,399
Speaker 1: thirteen or fourteen, we were ninety nine percent fossil fuel

302
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: energy for of our electricity your electric and then so

303
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,119
Speaker 1: we changed our energy policy in twenty and thirteen that

304
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: actually allowed for us to have feed in tariffs for

305
00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,760
Speaker 1: renewable energy into our grid and that and we created

306
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:17,360
Speaker 1: programming around that, and so Behamians really galvanized. We change

307
00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,040
Speaker 1: our attack structure so that people were able to get

308
00:20:20,040 --> 00:20:24,200
Speaker 1: at tax benefits from imparting solo because we don't manufacture

309
00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,359
Speaker 1: solar and so it has been very beneficial. Much of

310
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: the private sector has taken on the task for themselves

311
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 1: and we are introducing it through our low cost homes

312
00:20:36,520 --> 00:20:40,160
Speaker 1: as well. What's the energy mix now? For the energy mix,

313
00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: we are about ten percent and we're taken on unfortunately

314
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: due to the financial situation, we've taken on loans, which

315
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 1: I think the Prime Minister has spoken about the fact

316
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:56,280
Speaker 1: that we have to take on more loans to get

317
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 1: ourselves out of the problems that we're in as a

318
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 1: result the climate change. We're bearing this burden. So the

319
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 1: government has taken on loans with the expectation that we

320
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:08,120
Speaker 1: will be able to pay them back as people become

321
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 1: less reliant on fossil fuels. In the updated NDC, if

322
00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:15,639
Speaker 1: you're not increasing your ambition on reducing emissions, what are

323
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,920
Speaker 1: the things on which you are increasing ambition. So we've

324
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:23,040
Speaker 1: looked at our We've had light art done on our coastlines,

325
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: so we know what is some of the changes that

326
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:29,040
Speaker 1: are occurring across our islands, not all of our islands.

327
00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 1: We have more work that is slated to be conducted

328
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 1: across some more of the islands, but we have some

329
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: better data that has fed into our process, so we

330
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 1: can now say definitively this is what we can do,

331
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 1: and that data is looking at coastal erosion, correct coastal erosion,

332
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 1: the impact of clevel rise, the impact of coral bleaching.

333
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,639
Speaker 1: We've been impacted by skinl D, which is stony coral

334
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,360
Speaker 1: tissue loss disease. We're just having a really strong impact

335
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:59,560
Speaker 1: on our reef builders and that has had really strong

336
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: empact on our fishing industry. So we have that kind

337
00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:04,639
Speaker 1: of a data and we're equipping our scientists to go

338
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: out and collect more data so that we can have

339
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,879
Speaker 1: policy that is driven by science. Wonderful. Now back to

340
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,760
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister. The Bahamas is a well known tourist destination.

341
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: The country is currently building a new port that will

342
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:21,800
Speaker 1: cost two hundred and fifty million dollars and is designed

343
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 1: for cruise ships and yachts to come through, particularly cruise

344
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 1: ships particularly, and cruise ships have three times the carbon

345
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 1: impact of flights. They're also air pollution. Bahamas has the

346
00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 1: cleanest air in the world, but cruise has called a

347
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,840
Speaker 1: lot of air pollution. M Bahamas also has a plan

348
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: right now as of the previous NBC to reduce its

349
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,080
Speaker 1: emissions by thirty by twenty thirty. Yes, you're updating that,

350
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: so that ambition is becoming Yeah, what now it remains

351
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: that that's the ambition, will be thinking we should be

352
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 1: able to surpass that, but we were staying with the

353
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: thirty percent. Okay, So if that's the case, how are

354
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: you going to stop the emissions from increasing as these

355
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,520
Speaker 1: because cruise ships, well, first of all, that there is

356
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: a plan of food between in the industry. You know

357
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:17,280
Speaker 1: that they'll be converting to a cleaner energy. They're going

358
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: to llergy, which is cleaner than fossil fuel and using

359
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,919
Speaker 1: what they're using now. So yes, most cruise ships are

360
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 1: going to be required carbon emissions okay, but it's lesser

361
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: than what they're using now. And is that a condition

362
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: on the port though, or are you expecting well the

363
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,119
Speaker 1: industry to just do it on its own. Well, I

364
00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:42,200
Speaker 1: think the US government is requiring the cruise ships that

365
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 1: come to the airport, and it all comes true the

366
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 1: United States to be basically to move to Ellergy and

367
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,880
Speaker 1: we benefit through that. And this is where that offset

368
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 1: issue arises with me, because they'd want us to pay

369
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: buy credits and forget that they're still polluting. But if

370
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 1: they buy my credits, still lower their pollutions. What are

371
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: your expectations coming out of top twenty seven. I'm not

372
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,000
Speaker 1: going to give up. I'm not going to give up.

373
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: I'm an optimist, but conversations that we've been hearing leaves

374
00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: me less hopeful that the outcomes will being what I

375
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,800
Speaker 1: would like to see. Um. But at the end of

376
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 1: the day, I'm not going to give up. We're gonna

377
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: hope that when I leave, we're gonna leave our team

378
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,399
Speaker 1: behind to continue the negotiations and that some people come

379
00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 1: out of this that will move the needle. What would

380
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:50,680
Speaker 1: be your best case outcome? The best outcome for me

381
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:54,360
Speaker 1: is that countries live up to their commitments and promises.

382
00:24:54,960 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: I am, I'm pledged for team. I'm commitment. Fatigue time

383
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: must come for Actually, if they write the check before

384
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 1: they leave, that will be a great outcome for me. Wonderful.

385
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks so much for listening to Zero. If

386
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: you like the show, please rate, review and subscribe. Tell

387
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,919
Speaker 1: a friend or someone who likes beaches. If you've got

388
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: a suggestion for a guest or topic, or something you

389
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 1: just want us to look into, get in touch at

390
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: Zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Also good news for

391
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,600
Speaker 1: the next two weeks. While COP twenty seven is taking place,

392
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: the paywall on Bloombergreen has been lifted. Head to Bloomberg

393
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,879
Speaker 1: dot com slash green to read all our latest climate

394
00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: coverage and everything in the archives for absolutely free. Zero's

395
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 1: producer is Oscar Boyd and senior producer is Christine driscoll.

396
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: Our theme music is composed by Wondering. A special thanks

397
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 1: to Stacey Wong and Currabin Drim for their help with

398
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,760
Speaker 1: these episodes, and a reminder to listen to In the City,

399
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 1: a podcast hosted by Bloomberg TV anchor Fancying Lackwar. I'll

400
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 1: be joining Bloomberg contributing editor alegra Stratton on Thursday this

401
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,760
Speaker 1: week on the show to talk about the UK's role

402
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: at COP twenty seven. I'm Akshatrati back later this week

403
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,520
Speaker 1: with more from Copp twenty seven