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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Gradios How Stuff Works. Hello, welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show. My name is Matt, my name

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Speaker 1: is not They call me Ben. We are joined as

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Speaker 1: always with our super producer Paul Cash. A credit decond.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. Now,

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Speaker 1: we'll we'll answer this question in a second, but we

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Speaker 1: want you to think about this as well while you're listening.

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Speaker 1: What was the last thing you purchased, literally with the

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Speaker 1: last thing you purchased before you turned on today's episode,

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Speaker 1: did you use cash? Did you use a card or

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Speaker 1: ben Bucks or a person who still writes a check?

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Speaker 1: If you said a card. In fact, if you're one

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Speaker 1: of the people who just heard those questions and scoffed

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Speaker 1: and thought it's twenty who on earth bothers with cash?

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Speaker 1: Then congratulations, you're not alone? So so what about us?

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Speaker 1: If as long as we're not, you know, confessing to

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Speaker 1: anything illegal. Once the last thing you guys bought, was

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Speaker 1: it drugs. It was drugs, wasn't No, mine was was

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Speaker 1: going to be groceries. Quick story. I was at a

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Speaker 1: Kroger local grocer, and uh, as soon as I've got

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Speaker 1: about probably a hundred dollars more, maybe even than that

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Speaker 1: worth of food in my card, I take it up

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Speaker 1: to check out and all of their network goes down

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Speaker 1: and yeah, and all have got on me our cards,

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Speaker 1: and I go, oh, well, I can't put this on

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Speaker 1: the old corporate card anymore. I was really hoping to

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Speaker 1: get away with it, and I would have it wasn't

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Speaker 1: for those darned kids. Has kids, Okay? Anyway, Um so

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Speaker 1: I ran across the street and I got cash out,

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Speaker 1: which I never do anymore, took it back over there,

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Speaker 1: and by the time I got back, the network was up.

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Speaker 1: So really, it's not a story. I didn't have to

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Speaker 1: use my cash. Don't rob me. I'm not carrying it

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Speaker 1: on my person. But you did, so you ultimately ended

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Speaker 1: up purchasing with a card. Yeah, I'm sorry, No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: It makes sense though, because it's it's the only reason. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: unless I'm traveling, and you know, that's really the only

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Speaker 1: time I'll take out a little bit of extra cash

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Speaker 1: as it like, maybe something will come up that I

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Speaker 1: won't anticipate. But other than that, do you carry cash? Guys?

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Speaker 1: I keep on my cash in my shoe, all of

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Speaker 1: it for a power move. When I have to like

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Speaker 1: give someone some cash, I pull that out of my

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Speaker 1: shoe and see if they'll take it. That's actually from

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Speaker 1: an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm that it's never happened

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Speaker 1: to me. It'll take your shoe cash? Yeah, I used to.

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Speaker 1: I used to carry uh cash in a couple of

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Speaker 1: different parts of my person when I was traveling in

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Speaker 1: sketchy areas and then also when I am in cities

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Speaker 1: and he use public transit a lot. It's just an

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Speaker 1: old habit to always have. Don't This may sound paranoid,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I strongly

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Speaker 1: believe in not carrying all of your stuff like that

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Speaker 1: in one area. You know what I mean? If you

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Speaker 1: have something your wallet, having twenty or fifty bucks in

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Speaker 1: your shoe is also not as crazy as it sounds.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a smart idea. Uh this this interesting? No,

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Speaker 1: did you did you? What did you buy? Is there

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Speaker 1: anything that pops in mind where like your last purchase

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Speaker 1: or something with cash in general in general. I but

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Speaker 1: I went to the breakfast bar at Whole Foods this morning,

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Speaker 1: and I actually paid using my Apple Pay on my phone,

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Speaker 1: where you can just hold it up to the r

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Speaker 1: F I D reader and then you put your fingerprint in,

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Speaker 1: and then you put in your pin and you're done.

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Speaker 1: And this as long as these systems are in place,

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Speaker 1: we see a lot of advantages for a cashless society. Right.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to haul around large amounts of bills,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about counting out or receiving change.

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Speaker 1: It really can be when everything works as simple as

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Speaker 1: putting your phone up to the r F I D reader,

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Speaker 1: and it puts a level of difficulty between you and

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Speaker 1: a potential person who's going to rob you, because they

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Speaker 1: can't just take your card and then immediately use it. Generally,

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Speaker 1: there's some steps you have to take. Yeah, and again

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Speaker 1: in theory. Right, So that's today's question. What happens in

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Speaker 1: a world where these sorts of interactions mad at the

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Speaker 1: grocery store, knoll at the breakfast buffet. What happens when

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Speaker 1: those cashless transactions are the norm. What happens when they're

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Speaker 1: the mandate. Well, here are the facts. For anybody in

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Speaker 1: the audience today who happens to be a dragon sitting

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Speaker 1: atop a pile of cash, treasure, blood, and gold. Don't

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Speaker 1: worry just yet. Cash is still king, as they say,

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Speaker 1: at least four Now. That's because it represents, even today

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Speaker 1: the most frequent method of payment in the US O

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Speaker 1: overall that that equals out to about thirty one of

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Speaker 1: all consumer transactions. And that's more than electronic transactions credit cards,

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Speaker 1: debit cards, or of course checks. That's worldwide. That's just

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Speaker 1: in the US, just in the US. Such a surprising

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Speaker 1: statistic to me. The US also lags behind some countries,

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Speaker 1: which will will explore a few examples in a moment.

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Speaker 1: But this also makes me think, when's the last time

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Speaker 1: you saw somebody write a check? It's I mean, who what?

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Speaker 1: Who even takes checks anymore? Is my question? I write,

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Speaker 1: I the last time I saw a check or road

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Speaker 1: a check even interactive with the check, it was for

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Speaker 1: UH rental agreement. That was what it was for me too,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't have any checks. You have to go

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Speaker 1: get check, go get checks to write a check, and

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Speaker 1: they don't ever sell just one check unless you get

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Speaker 1: a cashier's checks, right, that's right. I'm trying to think

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Speaker 1: of other methods. I'm pretty sure some doctor's offices, like

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Speaker 1: if you're paying a cop or something, Well will accept

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Speaker 1: a check. On the grocery stores, they also both have

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Speaker 1: demographics that will tend to include older people exactly. It

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Speaker 1: just seems yeah, you're right, especially the older people. That's

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Speaker 1: just more of like a you know, old school way

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Speaker 1: of paying that people don't want to fully phase out

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Speaker 1: because it makes certain customers uncomfortable. They want to be

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Speaker 1: able to do things the way they're used to being

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Speaker 1: able to do things. But inherently, checks are very inefficient

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Speaker 1: means of paying because it takes a while for the

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Speaker 1: money to come out of your account. There's the whole

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Speaker 1: joke of don't cash this till Monday, you know, like

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Speaker 1: in the mail, checks in the mail, or a k A.

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Speaker 1: I'm writing you a check that at this particular point

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Speaker 1: in time isn't any good. That's a thing that that

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Speaker 1: that that that that is a sort of a pitfall

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Speaker 1: of of check writing and accepting really more than anything.

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Speaker 1: But unlike credit cards, checks do not incur interest in

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Speaker 1: that way. So that's one appeal people could see. Also,

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Speaker 1: some people have the comfort, especially if they're locked into

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Speaker 1: the technology, they have the come for of physically writing

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Speaker 1: out their ledger, balancing their check book. You know, for

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Speaker 1: some people that can feel the way that people have

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Speaker 1: certain religions feel when they are handling roseries. I say

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Speaker 1: certain religions, but you know, like Catholicism, I guess would

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Speaker 1: be the main one. I'm not a rosary surgeon or doctor.

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Speaker 1: I think there are more stern Orthodox Yeah, I just

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Speaker 1: know that that's one of them. So was that the

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Speaker 1: beads thing? Yeah, yeah, so we see that despite the

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Speaker 1: fact that so many transactions do still occur in cash,

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Speaker 1: for a number of years, the United States and many

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Speaker 1: many other places have been moving away from physical currency.

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Speaker 1: It's true. Fewer and fewer adults are using printed or

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Speaker 1: minted US currency bills and coins at all. Now there

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Speaker 1: are some people who are just like, why would I

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Speaker 1: touch cash? It's it's dirty smells. We have some, uh,

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Speaker 1: we have some filthy statistics about about physical currency. In

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Speaker 1: earlier episodes, you don't like touching change, but how do

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Speaker 1: you feel about cash? I'm okay with it, You're okay

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Speaker 1: with it? The tactile nest of it all works for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for checking, by the way. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a lot more thonge contact with the bills, though.

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Speaker 1: Thong contact. That's what I'm there for. You mean, like

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Speaker 1: in the club. I'm assuming in the club or club.

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Speaker 1: I guess, Well, the thong is what you make of it,

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Speaker 1: you know. Well, you know I keep my cash in

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Speaker 1: my shoes. Some people keep cash in their thong. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you might even have a like a little extra compartment

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Speaker 1: maybe at a hip. Wait, is a thong not a shoe?

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Speaker 1: I thought we were talking that's a type of flip flop. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that would the thong is saying is a component of

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Speaker 1: the flip. I guess you could call them thongs. Wait,

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Speaker 1: so if people say that, then what are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: Paul shrugs and says, yes, I was talking about underwear.

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Speaker 1: I always talking about selacious undergarments. Oh wow, don't be cool.

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Speaker 1: You knew what you were talking about. I had no idea.

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Speaker 1: My mom keeps her cell phone in her is here?

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Speaker 1: Is that weird? A lot of people keep their stuff knives, uh,

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Speaker 1: gas cards, probably beats, keepers, guns, bundles of cash, money, drugs.

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Speaker 1: You see that? Manna come back. It's still around. Money

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Speaker 1: clips are still around, as our money belts, which are

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Speaker 1: like the nerdy pocket protectors you wear abroad. Wait, so

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Speaker 1: is that like a Fannie pack exclusively for cash? Uh?

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Speaker 1: He doesn't have the carrying capacity of Fanning packs, but

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Speaker 1: you have. Most money belts will be worn under clothing

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Speaker 1: and they will strap around like a Fannie pack. Not all.

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Speaker 1: You can get some cool ones. They're like a doctor.

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Speaker 1: It's not the words, probably not doctor's clutch, but you

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Speaker 1: know what I'm talking about, the shoulder holsters for guns

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Speaker 1: that you see in different detective consective films and works

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Speaker 1: of fiction. This is this is interesting though. To to

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Speaker 1: get back to this idea of few people using printed currency.

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Speaker 1: According to the Pew Research Center, about three and ten

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Speaker 1: Americans said they go an entire week without touching cash

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Speaker 1: at all, and that number has risen in twenty used

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Speaker 1: to be a quarter of the population. But at the

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Speaker 1: same time, the people who said that all or nearly

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Speaker 1: all of their purchases were made using cash, the people

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Speaker 1: were the opposite of the card the card holders. That

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Speaker 1: number was and now it's fallen to and that trend

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Speaker 1: seems set to continue. There's a lot of research going

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Speaker 1: into this. On the side of surprise, the banking system

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Speaker 1: and Facebook and Facebook. Yes, Facebook wants to have its

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Speaker 1: own currency. I'll check this out. In the survey of

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Speaker 1: two thousand Americans, US Bank found it half of respondents

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Speaker 1: said they carry cash with them less than half the

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Speaker 1: time they're out. That makes sense. I can identify with that.

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Speaker 1: I get it. When they do carry cash, seventy said

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Speaker 1: they keep less than fifty bucks on hand and nearly

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Speaker 1: have less than twenty dollars when they're walking around, and

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Speaker 1: that I think makes a lot of sense when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about the amount of money you get generally out

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Speaker 1: of an a t M or something, which is I

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Speaker 1: would say primary, the primary way you get cash, unless

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Speaker 1: it's a gift or something um in. Those are generally

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Speaker 1: not always going to be twenties. So I can imagine

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Speaker 1: a twenty that you carry around because you might need it,

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Speaker 1: or forty maybe your emergency stash, right exactly if you're

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Speaker 1: in a situation where you need to pay for casually transaction.

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Speaker 1: As we know, there are a lot of places, especially

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Speaker 1: the larger cities, that are casually and they won't take

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Speaker 1: anything above a twenty. A lot of times, right, right,

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Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. We see a divided demographic. There are

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Speaker 1: social implications to the cash list society because there are

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Speaker 1: surprising divides between the way that we use currency, digital

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Speaker 1: or physical today. Even before some weird sci fi stuff,

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Speaker 1: we know that there are clear demographic divides here. One

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Speaker 1: of the first which should not surprise anyone, is age.

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Speaker 1: The second one should surprise people, But the first one

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Speaker 1: is age. We know that the younger you are, the

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Speaker 1: less likely you are to use cash. Funny thing, I

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Speaker 1: was actually at the courthouse the other day for jury duty.

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Speaker 1: I was very lucky, and then I actually got selected

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Speaker 1: to be on a jury and the you were lucky, well,

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Speaker 1: you didn't get I didn't get to the lucky Okay.

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Speaker 1: I was selected to be on a jury and the

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Speaker 1: case wrapped in that same day. And I had to say,

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Speaker 1: I actually, quite once I made peace with the whole

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Speaker 1: thing that I was gonna be there, you know, until

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Speaker 1: seven o'clock at night, and knew that it was pretty

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Speaker 1: much guaranteed to wrap that day. I really enjoyed the

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Speaker 1: whole process. But in the cafeteria of the of the courthouse,

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Speaker 1: they say twenties only accepted for purchases over a certain

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Speaker 1: dollar amount, which was a very specific caveat that I've

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Speaker 1: never seen before for accepting twenties. Was really really too Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've seen I've seen that before, and then it's usually,

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Speaker 1: I would say, rather than something the farious that typically

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Speaker 1: is going to be the due to the fact that

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Speaker 1: the tills only have so much change they can make.

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Speaker 1: You know, it makes sense, and you probably can't go

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Speaker 1: to a bank and get that crack down to fives.

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Speaker 1: That makes sense. And also how many people, how many

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Speaker 1: people make a tiny purchase to break a twenty so

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Speaker 1: that they can pay for parking or they can pay

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Speaker 1: for some other related incidents. I didn't think about the

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Speaker 1: parking deal because that's a big part of going to

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Speaker 1: the courthouse is paying for parking. They don't validate it

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Speaker 1: at the courthouse, Yeah, definitely don't. The benefits of citizenship

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Speaker 1: do not go that far. Nope. So let's drip back

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Speaker 1: to these demographics really faster. Yeah, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: hit on age, which again makes I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense when you're thinking about this issue. Um, so

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Speaker 1: younger people, let's call them millennials, tend to ditch physical

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Speaker 1: cash for you know, stuff, that you can do on

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Speaker 1: your phone, or things you can use virtually like credit, debit,

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Speaker 1: digital payments, Apple, pay venmo Zel. It just goes on

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Speaker 1: and on PayPal um. In fact, more than one in

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Speaker 1: ten millennials use this thing, their digital wallet, the thing

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Speaker 1: on your phone that you probably have access to right

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Speaker 1: now if you wanted. They use that for every purchase.

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Speaker 1: And that is according to a separate report made by Experience, right,

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Speaker 1: so that's not Pew Research anymore. That's experience. And we

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Speaker 1: see that overall, thirty four percent, let's call it one

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Speaker 1: third of adults under the age of fifty typically don't

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Speaker 1: use cash. That's that's a crazy number. People over fifty

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Speaker 1: years old, the numbers much lower. Only of people over

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Speaker 1: fifty say, I've gotten a whole week without using physical currency.

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Speaker 1: But here is one of the distressing demographic divides. This

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Speaker 1: is the one that should give us food forethought. We

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Speaker 1: do see divisions along at economic lines, along the lines

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Speaker 1: of just straight income. It turns out that no matter

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Speaker 1: who you are in the US, if you have an

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Speaker 1: annual household income of over seventy five grand, you are

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Speaker 1: more than twice as likely to avoid using physical cash

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Speaker 1: than someone who's making thirty dollars or less per year.

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Speaker 1: That let's look at this a different way. Lower income

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Speaker 1: adults in this country are four times as likely as

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Speaker 1: higher income adults to say that they make all or

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Speaker 1: almost all of their purchases with cold, hard scratch cheddar

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Speaker 1: pony pony bones is another one, right, do we have

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Speaker 1: another one? Pony on them? Uh? Bread, bread is good,

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Speaker 1: like like bread. I want to bring back bread. Scrilla,

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Speaker 1: scrill is good, he said, scratch already, scratch scratch. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's a cool thing. This quote, out of context will

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Speaker 1: sound strange. That's the cool thing about a capitalist society,

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Speaker 1: you know, love it or hate it. People can use

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Speaker 1: almost any term to describe money and everyone else in

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Speaker 1: the room will get it, you know what I mean. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was a couple of toe knuckles short on that.

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Speaker 1: So I got the hamburger instead of the cheeseburger. Yeah

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. I couldn't believe they wanted me

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Speaker 1: to spend more. Slounced to upgrade to that. Clowns scounced yes, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: This is already a controversial topic, the idea of a

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Speaker 1: world without physical currency, but it's only going to grow

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Speaker 1: more controversial over the next few years and we're going

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Speaker 1: to see programming wars about it. This is going to

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Speaker 1: be a hearts and minds conflict, especially in developed countries.

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Speaker 1: There are experts out there who will tout the benefits

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Speaker 1: of a cashless economy, and they have valid points. They'll say, well,

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Speaker 1: it's more safe for people working in retail, the people

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Speaker 1: who work at all night convenience stores and have that

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Speaker 1: sign that says we keep no more than x amount

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Speaker 1: of dollars in the register and it's time release. We

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Speaker 1: can't let you into the safe. That doesn't matter. What

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Speaker 1: are you gonna stick people up with a thumb drive

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Speaker 1: in the future and say transfer all of your digital

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Speaker 1: money to to me. That's gonna make it a whole

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Speaker 1: hell of a lot harder. Sounds sci fi, but I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure that's something that could happen. Those card readers,

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Speaker 1: you can just put it in your cell phone and

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Speaker 1: if somebody has a gun and a friend has a

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Speaker 1: cell phone with a card reader, you're talking about square

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Speaker 1: based robberies, robbering and in robbing an individual, that's what

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Speaker 1: I'm taking them out of their pocket, holding them up

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Speaker 1: and saying swiper. That's actually a really good point matter

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Speaker 1: that happens a lot. That happens a lot doesn't really,

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Speaker 1: I've never heard reports of that, but it makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: People getting robbed and forced to go to a t

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Speaker 1: M S happened. That's very common. But that's still a

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Speaker 1: cash situation. But it starts with the card. It does.

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Speaker 1: But you could argue that you could track the robbery

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Speaker 1: if someone used their square and you can. But think

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Speaker 1: about so, we have many people listening today who have

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Speaker 1: found uh, fraudulent charges on their cards. The bank will

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Speaker 1: hopefully return that refunded whatever. But the person who did that,

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Speaker 1: you know, who took that cash or made usually made

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Speaker 1: a purchase somewhere. They don't have to worry about it.

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Speaker 1: They're gone, they've schedaddled to the horizon, and are you know,

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Speaker 1: like capering around the pile of other stolen credit cards

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Speaker 1: they have. But that so we already see holes in

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Speaker 1: the argument of safety, right. We also see to the

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Speaker 1: point you just made, know what, we also see that

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Speaker 1: there is an ease of tracking otherwise suspicious or occulted

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Speaker 1: payments that exist in the gray red and black markets.

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Speaker 1: For anybody wondering what the gray red and black markets

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Speaker 1: are and what the difference is between them. The black

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Speaker 1: market is all the illegal dark Web stuff. The gray

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Speaker 1: market would be things that are not inherently illegal but

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Speaker 1: maybe skirt some of the regulations in a transaction, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean. The red market is all about

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Speaker 1: human trafficking. You know, you're right. The red market is

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Speaker 1: organ trade. Okay, Yeah, I thought we were going there,

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Speaker 1: but I wasn't sure. I thought, and check out our

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Speaker 1: shows on on the red market, and every show we

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Speaker 1: do somehow touches on the black poket at some point.

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Speaker 1: But but with this we also see a lot of criticism.

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Speaker 1: So just as there are proponents on the side of

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Speaker 1: the concept of a cash list economy, there are vocal critics,

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Speaker 1: and they're asking, could a truly cashless society just be

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Speaker 1: another step along the path toward an all powerful or

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Speaker 1: welly and dictatorship. Will this spell the end of financial

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Speaker 1: privacy if such a thing still exists today, which is

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Speaker 1: a different question, And then what will a world without

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Speaker 1: cash mean? And what happens in the future where bills

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Speaker 1: and coins literally just become collectible items, you know, like

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Speaker 1: old stamps. Are the critics in short right to be concerned.

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Speaker 1: We'll learn about that right after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 1: Here's where it gets crazy. The short answer is absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And it seems that both the proponents of this concept

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Speaker 1: and the opponents of this concept are going to see

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Speaker 1: their theories in action. The rubber will hit the road,

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Speaker 1: and much sooner rather than later. In fact, the cash

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Speaker 1: list society already exists in some places. It's much further

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Speaker 1: along than we might like to think. Right So in Sweden, um,

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Speaker 1: right now, only one percent of the economy operates on

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Speaker 1: on currency, on cash, on on on paper and coins.

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Speaker 1: That is a tenth of the rate elsewhere in Europe.

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Speaker 1: We know the Swedes are are always up on the

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Speaker 1: latest train ends um, so that makes sense, and they're

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Speaker 1: really good at kind of streamlining things and making things

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Speaker 1: pretty efficient. So it's interesting to see how it's working

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Speaker 1: out there. And this is only one eighth of the

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Speaker 1: rate here in the United States of of folks in

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Speaker 1: areas that are that are going cash less. So the

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Speaker 1: New York Times says it only about one in ten

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Speaker 1: Swedes paid for anything anything at all in cash in

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Speaker 1: twenty seventeen. That's amazing. Think about that. You have you're

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Speaker 1: one of ten people in Sweden you meet up once

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Speaker 1: a year and you say, what did you buy? Because

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Speaker 1: you have weird Swedish parties. I don't know that means

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Speaker 1: that only one person in the room. It's been cash

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Speaker 1: on anything. You should call that number, ask a Swede

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Speaker 1: and see if they bought anything with cash. That's great,

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Speaker 1: that's a great idea. Unfortunately they pulled the number. You

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Speaker 1: kind of a longer call a Swede. It is a shame.

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Speaker 1: I had a lot of fun with that one, and

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Speaker 1: I hate phone calling. You actually called it, Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just you know, it's one of the things you talk about,

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Speaker 1: but but you never do with Ben, you're a man

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Speaker 1: of action. Well, I spoke with a one time particularly

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Speaker 1: sticks out my head. I spoke with a delightful retired

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Speaker 1: lady and uh it was it was a great experience.

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Speaker 1: I hope she's doing well. I don't think she listens

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Speaker 1: to the show. So what are what are the big

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Speaker 1: the big red flags, the big concerns about you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, we always think of Sweden as everyone's happy

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Speaker 1: and idyllic and living in uh you know, tiny homes

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Speaker 1: or whatever and not spending cash. Uh, they seem happy,

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Speaker 1: they're rock and abba. You know that's right. That has

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Speaker 1: to be the only way. But what's that's what's the issue.

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Speaker 1: If they if they say they seem like they like it,

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Speaker 1: they seem like they have a good quality of life,

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Speaker 1: Where does where does it break down? Yeah, yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: the that's the twenty billion dollar question or one dollar

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Speaker 1: depending on how inflation works out. We have easily discernible

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Speaker 1: concerns about a cashless economy, and no doubt in this

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Speaker 1: show we will be preaching to the choir partially. First,

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Speaker 1: we have to look back at what we've already proven.

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Speaker 1: We've proven there is an inherent economic divide between the

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Speaker 1: halves and the have nots when it comes to cash.

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Speaker 1: If you the less money you make, the more likely

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Speaker 1: you are to use cash in general. That's very broadbrush,

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Speaker 1: but so far everything we found proves that this is

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Speaker 1: the case. This means that it is highly likely that

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Speaker 1: a purely digital society could spell disaster for low income

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Speaker 1: residents people who tend to use physical currency. So introduce

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Speaker 1: some jargon here, which is I think a little bit disturbing.

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Speaker 1: There's there are a couple of industry terms. One is

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Speaker 1: unbanked and one is underbanked. They mean what they sound

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Speaker 1: like underbanked means that there's a financial institution that says, hey,

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Speaker 1: this person should be more included in our system. And

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Speaker 1: unbanked means I don't know how, but this joker is

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Speaker 1: living under the table there only in cash for everything.

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Speaker 1: They've deleted their Facebook, you know, etcetera, etcetera. It has

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Speaker 1: these implications that if you are not participating in the

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Speaker 1: financial system, you are either deprived or potentially dangerous. It's

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Speaker 1: um it's a little bit of what you call it

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Speaker 1: Chomsky esque Bernese esque packaging. Well, we can see how

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Speaker 1: that somewhat makes sense, especially if you think with my

426
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: migration issues here in the unit in the United States alone,

427
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 1: like just residency, and if you are here by some

428
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,159
Speaker 1: means that is outside of the legal ways of staying

429
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 1: here in the United States, then the only way to

430
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: go is to not have a bank account and to

431
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,679
Speaker 1: use cash for everything, because that if you were to

432
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: get a bank account, your identity would be attached to

433
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 1: it and you be found out. It's the same as

434
00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: voter I D laws. There's arguments that that disenfranchises people

435
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 1: because it affects you know, people that are in poverty

436
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: who may be can't can't get an idea or for

437
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, or living outside the law in some capacity, yeah,

438
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: or never have enough money at any one time to

439
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: keep in a bank, so to the to the point

440
00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,280
Speaker 1: where they're not being charged for not having enough money

441
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 1: in the bank at all time, because let's not forget

442
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,880
Speaker 1: that is absolutely a thing. Yeah, which is so insane

443
00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: waiting for the privilege of getting your money out. Future

444
00:25:24,840 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: historians will take note of that. I would hope on

445
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: this point, we also see the problem of prerequisite paperwork. Right,

446
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: you want to bank account and you don't have proof

447
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: of residency one maybe proof of identity too, and is

448
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: similar to the voter I d stuff. This is uh,

449
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: this is a way. I know it feels like a

450
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,440
Speaker 1: strong word, but this is a way to potentially financially

451
00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: disenfranchise people and then they are forced to work with

452
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,240
Speaker 1: the smaller and smaller slice of the financial pie that

453
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 1: does allow cash dealing. Right now, there there is a trend,

454
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,640
Speaker 1: the downward trend. Fewer and fewer people are quote unquote

455
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: unbanked or underbanked. But between five and eighteen percent of

456
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: people living in this country currently don't possess credit cards.

457
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,680
Speaker 1: And I would say, well done. You know, no judgment

458
00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: if you have one. Uh, they they are useful, right

459
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: if you're responsible with them. But there are a lot

460
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: of people who have very valid reasons that they don't

461
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 1: want to interact with credit cards. And this this leads

462
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: us to the ultimate question regarding this first concern. Should

463
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: paying customers, potentially paying customers be barred from stores or

464
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 1: restaurants because they don't have, you know, uh, an American

465
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: Express or a Visa or a Discover or of course

466
00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:54,640
Speaker 1: that the last word in credit A diners club that's

467
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 1: still a thing, maybe gone the way of checks, it's

468
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,760
Speaker 1: still around. Really, surely diners Club is still around. Who

469
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:06,159
Speaker 1: wants to dine and not being a club? Is that

470
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 1: similar to a triple a or is that? I think

471
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: the idea is that you subscribe to it and it

472
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 1: gives you discounts at at a pit places that accepted

473
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: or something. It was the first card really, it was

474
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 1: like the first you were called payment card company in history.

475
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: I think Now technically it's owned by Discover, so there

476
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 1: you go. It's diners Club is no longer independence institution,

477
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 1: though you know they want to hold onto that branding.

478
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,200
Speaker 1: I watched one of the old commercials you can still

479
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: see them on YouTube. Can we can we talk about

480
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:45,679
Speaker 1: something here, guys. Yeah, the concept of not not using

481
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: digital currencies or credit cards out of preference because they

482
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 1: use just somebody doesn't like it. Because my dad is

483
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,679
Speaker 1: one of those people where he very much will be

484
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 1: carrying around cash on purpose to do everything he's gonna

485
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 1: do for that day or for that trip or that week.

486
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: He will make all the purchases in cash and then

487
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: he's done with it. And that's tremendously convenient, right, because

488
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 1: then that makes a purchase stand alone, right, and his

489
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: books are are balanced because he did that one transaction

490
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: of taking the cash out, right. So this leads into

491
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 1: the huge second concern, which is privacy. And this is

492
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,199
Speaker 1: a concern that should be uh in the forefront of

493
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: everyone's mind. It's only becoming more important over time because,

494
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, many people who do not use

495
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: credit cards avoid them out of preference rather than necessity.

496
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 1: So do we start telling these people then that they

497
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: must use these methods of payment while everyone knows very

498
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 1: well that we're essentially making these people contribute to increasingly

499
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: thorough and sophisticated profiles of their individual lives. Each and

500
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,760
Speaker 1: every time they make a purchase. And then do we

501
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: just uh, do we just be pollyanna about it, as

502
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: as Dan would say, Do we just sort of fiddle

503
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: d d our way around the fact that this is

504
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:18,160
Speaker 1: one piece of a larger profile that may involve other

505
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: aspects of your personal life? Do we ignore those implications?

506
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: We cannot. We will dive further into the rabbit hole.

507
00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: After a word from our sponsors, we're back. Let's go

508
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 1: a little further away from the light of what's proven

509
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: and explore the shadows beyond the things that could happen

510
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: it might happen that haven't happened yet, or most distressingly,

511
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: the things that may be happening now despite the fact

512
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: that no one's really talking about them on your local

513
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:03,040
Speaker 1: new who is Affiliate? This is the first one. What

514
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 1: if private financial powers are pushing cash less currency as

515
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: a way to rest control of money from the state.

516
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: Is this may feel kind of small for for some

517
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: of us, but the fact of the matter is that historically,

518
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: the the ability to print money, the ability to be

519
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,080
Speaker 1: the person who determines the value of whatever these coupons

520
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 1: or articles of faith. Maybe uh, that ability the sovereign

521
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: creator originator of currency. This, this power is something that

522
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 1: is tremendously important to states. It's up there with having

523
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: the ability to legally kill people. It's up there with

524
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: having the ability to have a standing army. Right, this

525
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: is this is a life and death thing economically for

526
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: a lot of state actors. How do you pay for

527
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: a standing army If you can't print your own currency,

528
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,960
Speaker 1: You've gotta rely on somebody else. How do you maintain

529
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 1: an army if you cannot be the one who determines

530
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: the value of money? You know what I mean? So

531
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: what if this, what if this becomes something where let's say,

532
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 1: the United States of America or Sweden, New Zealand's whatever,

533
00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: whatever place you wanna you want to name. What if

534
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,960
Speaker 1: there's a situation where country's entire currency then becomes controlled

535
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: by a consortium of financial powers or a single financial power,

536
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? What if what if Chase

537
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,640
Speaker 1: Manhattan one day decides to you know that they think

538
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: Nigeria is a problem, so they just remove their access

539
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: that financial network where they say, because we are the source,

540
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: because we are the faucet through which this financial fluid flows,

541
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: we will cut off the faucet and like, I mean,

542
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: you could argue bad pr move. Sure is it They're

543
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: right to do that? Yes, if they control it. I mean,

544
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: might makes right in this situation, you know, especially if

545
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: they have the backing of other antagonistic state powers and

546
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: Nigeria rightly says, hey, we should be in charge of

547
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: our currency, and then maybe Western powers say, nah, we

548
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: talked to the folks at Chase Manhattan and got a

549
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: pretty good case. We're gonna make this a win win

550
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: for everyone. Right. It's weird. It reminds me of resource

551
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: extraction problems in other countries, like with oil and the

552
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: control of over oil fields and whether it's a state

553
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: run thing or a privately run thing. And then what

554
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: happens when somebody comes in and wants yours, wants to

555
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: control yours, like a foreign entity wants to come in

556
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: and control your currency or the transactions at least litaker

557
00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: in your country. I mean, and you know, evidence proves

558
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,280
Speaker 1: I don't know why this is why everybody is still

559
00:32:55,320 --> 00:32:58,560
Speaker 1: pretending this is some sort of controversial hot take. Evidence

560
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: proves that the reason Western powers got involved in Libya

561
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: and create a regime change was entirely because the French

562
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: government wanted to retain hegemonic control over the currency. And

563
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not defending Mama Gadaffi. I'm not picking

564
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 1: a horse in the race. That's just what happened. And

565
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: you can you can google it, you can search it,

566
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: because at this point the truth of that conflict does

567
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: not matter too, I mean to the people who would

568
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: censor it. Yeah, of course, babe, it's past the news

569
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: cycles whatever, right, and that point quick to We talked

570
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: about that for like two weeks. Dusty Tomes of currency

571
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 1: and international trade? Why why would you dedicate time to

572
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 1: that man? The Mandalorian season one is out. Huh, maybe

573
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 1: a baby Yoda was on currency? People would care more?

574
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: Or the child? Speaking of currency and baby Yoda, did

575
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: you hear that Builder Bears coming out with a baby

576
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: Yoda plushy fly off the shelves. Man, that's gonna become

577
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: its own currency. I tell you the kids, they love

578
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: the baby Yoda. You know who else loves the baby Yoda? Everyone?

579
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: Literally everyone else's yeah, we'll get your get your cash

580
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: less wallets out, start scanning them at the Builder Bear.

581
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: I mean, make no mistake, right, that's what people want

582
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: you to do. That's what the people in control of

583
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: the money want you to do. They want you to

584
00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: not spend cash to buy your Yoda build a bear.

585
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,040
Speaker 1: Well and funny to the language that even like you know,

586
00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:36,760
Speaker 1: Apple uses in terms of the app on your phone

587
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:39,320
Speaker 1: that stores all your your money and your cards that

588
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 1: you can scan in. They call it a wallet. Everyone's

589
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: using that terminology because people are comfortable with that, you know. Um.

590
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, they're trying they

591
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: it would behoove them to to move away from a

592
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: cashlest economy. Everyone just want they want people to spend

593
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,680
Speaker 1: money online and have it be one click purchases using

594
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: your thumb print, you know, like, so you don't even

595
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 1: have time to think about it, rights we do, we

596
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 1: do see some interesting psychology at play there. And this

597
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: this has moved, to be absolutely crystal clear, This has

598
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 1: moved far beyond some kind of boardroom conversation or some

599
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: professors different opinions arguing in a civil manner, the the

600
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 1: war for how you spend money, and it is turning

601
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: into a war that this this war has gone to

602
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,120
Speaker 1: the streets. If you live in the Western world, you

603
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: have seen banks shutting down, branches shutting down, a T. M.

604
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: S right, automatic teller machines. This is they're not for nothing,

605
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 1: are they doing this? This is an attempt to push

606
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: consumers into using those digital payment systems first, and using

607
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: that digital banking infrastructure, because again, there is tremendous power

608
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,920
Speaker 1: in owning the system. I would also say there's a

609
00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:01,960
Speaker 1: profit motive. This isn't necessarily this isn't inherently nefarious if

610
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:07,320
Speaker 1: you believe what the the official statements of the banks say.

611
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 1: There's a clear cost cutting motive here, because if you

612
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: have a branch, you have to have staff, you have

613
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: to have security, you have to pay these people, right,

614
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: and if you replace them with a self service app.

615
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: You know, your your banking app. You can check on

616
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,439
Speaker 1: your phone. You can just use that information to buy things.

617
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:29,760
Speaker 1: You can put your card number in your Amazon account

618
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 1: and what have you. You can take a picture of

619
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 1: your check if you just got paid and it gets deposited.

620
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,600
Speaker 1: What that's pretty nuts, right, And you have to wonder

621
00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:44,640
Speaker 1: about the technology there. Sorry, that just that blew my mind.

622
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 1: When I watched my wife do that, I went, you

623
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: can white, No, I know, you can't take that to

624
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: the bank right now. I didn't believe it at first either.

625
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,239
Speaker 1: I think it has some security issues. But when you

626
00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,640
Speaker 1: when you put everybody into a system like this, you're

627
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: saving executives of the banking institutions a ton of money, right,

628
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: and that does translate to the bottom line, saving shareholders

629
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:13,479
Speaker 1: cash as well. You're also allowing um in a way,

630
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: you're allowing another revenue stream, a passive revenue stream, and you,

631
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: the customer, by the way, you get nothing. It's a

632
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,480
Speaker 1: Willy Wonka moment, right, or it could be we believe

633
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: in nothing Lebowski. That's what I make. So that makes sense,

634
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,160
Speaker 1: and it's a business. There's nothing wrong with that. But

635
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: also people need to be aware that your transactions in

636
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: an entirely electronic system become another package that can be

637
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: sold to data aggregators without anything other than your blanket

638
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: approval because you didn't read the terms and conditions when

639
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: you clicked. But who would who would do that? Who

640
00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 1: would not read the terms and conditions? Literally everybody. I

641
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: was gonna say, all of the employees who just lost

642
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 1: all their jobs to the app? But wait a minute, though,

643
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 1: it is all these transactions are encrypted, right, I mean

644
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:18,640
Speaker 1: what are they selling? They're selling just the contents? Like yeah, okay,

645
00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:21,279
Speaker 1: that makes sense. So you can't exactly tie it to

646
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,160
Speaker 1: an individual per se, but you can tie it to

647
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,799
Speaker 1: a demographic or well, yeah, I wonder how it's used

648
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: if it's if it's anonymized in that way, Like how

649
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,759
Speaker 1: granular do you think that information gets for folks that

650
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,360
Speaker 1: buy it? It's still evolving? Really yeah? Yeah? Interesting? And

651
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: this I mean think about how if you are an

652
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: Apple iPhone user, depending on the model of iPhone you have,

653
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:49,200
Speaker 1: think about how if you spend time doing routine things,

654
00:38:49,280 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 1: your phone, depending on the settings, will just start proposing

655
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: alerts or alarms for you. Right that It's it's a

656
00:38:58,960 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: similar to similar reach into your brain. So banks did

657
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 1: a Comcast move or Exfinity or whatever you wanna call it.

658
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,959
Speaker 1: So there was when net neutrality was still a huge debate. UH.

659
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:17,719
Speaker 1: Comcast was one of the companies lobbying intensely to remove

660
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,399
Speaker 1: net neutrality to be able to sell you a an

661
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,840
Speaker 1: Internet agreement the same way that you would agree to

662
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: a cable package a la carte certain channels, right right,

663
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 1: So you can you can pay for basic Google or Wikipedia,

664
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: but then if you want to go visit something else,

665
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: you have to pay the internet service provider. So of

666
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: course it's a cash grab, obviously, but the main, the

667
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: main point, the reason I bring this up is that

668
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: when asked about this, Comcast said things like, well, we

669
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 1: talked to consumers and they want more choice. That's what

670
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: we're giving them. We're giving them more choice. That is

671
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 1: such book. Well guess what the banks are saying, Hey,

672
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:05,839
Speaker 1: all these customers, they want to do everything online, they

673
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: want to do everything electronically. We're giving them what they want.

674
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: But that's such circular or like you know, inherently flawed logic,

675
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,759
Speaker 1: as they're saying, we're gonna give you more choices by

676
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: limiting your choices than selling you back the choices you

677
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:21,959
Speaker 1: originally add at an ala carte premium in the Comcast case,

678
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: and this one is just they're just saying, hey, we'd

679
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 1: rather do this the fast way through my phone or

680
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: whatever than having to go to a bank, do cash,

681
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:33,680
Speaker 1: do that kind of thing. Well, think about it, think

682
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,359
Speaker 1: about the argument this way. Let's let's walk through it.

683
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: The argument for the financial institutions is, hey, we're not

684
00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: saying people have to do this. We are reacting to

685
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: what our customers want because we are vary customer focused.

686
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,320
Speaker 1: You know, we're we're here to make you guys happy.

687
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: But what they're what they're actually doing, if you look

688
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:55,880
Speaker 1: at the behaviors and you look at the policies and

689
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 1: play their activities can form much more closely to a

690
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:04,399
Speaker 1: concept from behavioral economics, which is called nudging. And we've

691
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: talked about this a little bit when we talked about

692
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,719
Speaker 1: opting in or opting out on a driver to be

693
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: an organ donor and a driver's license application. If people

694
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: are automatically opted in, then they're much less likely to

695
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,840
Speaker 1: opt out. Also, shout out to uh to a listener

696
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,399
Speaker 1: you wrote to us and brought up a fantastic point.

697
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: They said some people would be against being organ donors

698
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: on their license because they genuinely believe that if they're

699
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,440
Speaker 1: in a traumatic injury and they're you know, they're in

700
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: a touch and ghost situation in a hospital, and they

701
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: are marked as an organ donor, in some cases, the

702
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 1: medical professionals might just let them go or not try

703
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: as hard to keep them around. Shout out to Sterling, Yes,

704
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: thank you so much, Surling. That was a fantastic point.

705
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: Nudging is like that. Let's say everybody does option A.

706
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what option A is it could be

707
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 1: a rito bowl. It could be uh, it could be

708
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 1: paying with cash, you know, it could be uh, what

709
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: what are those what are those things that used to

710
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: be on the front of pants, the little wrinkles, pleats plates, Yes,

711
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,400
Speaker 1: it could be pleated pants. Option A, but you want whichever,

712
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,120
Speaker 1: whatever business you are, you want people to do Option B.

713
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,120
Speaker 1: People are more used to option A. They understand it,

714
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 1: they get it. That burrito bowl makes sense to me.

715
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: I like to pay with cash. I've always had these pants.

716
00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: What you do instead, instead of saying you have to

717
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 1: pay with a card, or you have to order the

718
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,400
Speaker 1: case of dilla, or you have to wear unpleated pants,

719
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,880
Speaker 1: you just make it slowly and slowly more difficult to

720
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: get that burrito bowl. Now it's no longer on the menu.

721
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: You can still order it, but you have to make

722
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: it a custom order. You can still pay with cash,

723
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 1: but you have to go to one certain line in

724
00:42:56,480 --> 00:43:00,280
Speaker 1: the grocery store. You can still wear pleaded pay it's

725
00:43:00,719 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: but they're not making any new ones. You can see

726
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 1: this at work. If you've ever this is odd. But

727
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: if you ever been on a turnpike or a you know,

728
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: a road where you have to pay for the privilege

729
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 1: to a toll road where you have to pay for

730
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 1: the privilege to be on that road. Um where in

731
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the lanes. When I was a kid

732
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,759
Speaker 1: growing up, it was all you would pay cash to

733
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: get through or money basically. Right then it became well

734
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,839
Speaker 1: you can pay cash, where you can pay with a

735
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: card of some sword. Well, then it became a system

736
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,200
Speaker 1: where you can pay to put a thing on your

737
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 1: car that lets you run, like ride right through the

738
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:38,719
Speaker 1: toll and but generally you could just they had to

739
00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: think two lanes in a lot of places, especially on

740
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 1: the Florida Turnpike, where you could use that special cash

741
00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:47,560
Speaker 1: list system, But then everybody else got to go and pay,

742
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,319
Speaker 1: and then you kind of over all the years, the

743
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: cash list system began moving further and further to the

744
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: right on the highway where all the lanes are. Then

745
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,200
Speaker 1: that and then you can only really take one or

746
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: two lanes to pay with because the rest it's essentially

747
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: a subscription service. You're subscribing to the road exactly, and

748
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: that it's well, that's what you're doing with a card. Really,

749
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: you're subscribing to a company that is just going to

750
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: cycle money for you. You're you're subscribing to that sandbox.

751
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,160
Speaker 1: Everything you buy or purchase use in that sandbox. Their

752
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: eyes are on it. Just not inherently bad. And also

753
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: there's to be completely fair, there is a great argument

754
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: about how you have how long it takes to make

755
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 1: that shift. You know, you'd leave a lot of people

756
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 1: out in the cold if you just turn everything cashless.

757
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 1: That's what we're saying. Right, Eventually that sandbox gets so

758
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: big that you don't get to play if you don't participate,

759
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,840
Speaker 1: and in you know, because the sandbox takes up the

760
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: entire playground and no more swings. It's all just a sandbox,

761
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And in that case, for this, if you

762
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 1: add a million dollars in cash in a cashless society,

763
00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: that doesn't matter until the moment you take that cash

764
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: to if I financial institution and they take that physical

765
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 1: cash from you and they put some bleeps in, some

766
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: bloops in their computer system, and now you're now you're

767
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: a millionaire who can use their money. That's crazy. That

768
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: is just I get the logic behind it. But if

769
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: you think about it, like explaining that to an extraterrestrial

770
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: or to someone who has never heard of money, that

771
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,799
Speaker 1: sounds kind of arbitrary. Is there an argument that this

772
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: thing would also eliminate like some aspects of crime. Yeah,

773
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: because I mean, you know, the idea of money laundering

774
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: is turning dirty cash into some other form or whatever.

775
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: And if you can't spend the cash in the first

776
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:40,879
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what I mean, like or

777
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,840
Speaker 1: you know again, drugs is a transactional cash economy in

778
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 1: and of itself, of scale, what happens then you know

779
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: exactly And not that I know this personally, but I

780
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 1: know a lot of drug dealers do take venmo. That's

781
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: that's that's a thing. You just be mindful of the

782
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: emoji you choose to use, right, So it's true. We

783
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: should also say that cutting costs, in addition to increasing

784
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: government surveillance potential, which I think is what we're getting at,

785
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: it also could save a lot of money for a

786
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:14,200
Speaker 1: government because now think about it, you can shut down

787
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: the mint. You don't need to pay uh. Like in

788
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,480
Speaker 1: the US, we pay a quasi public I believe is

789
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 1: the euphemism we use. We pay a quasi public entity

790
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 1: to create that stuff more or less out of nothing,

791
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,879
Speaker 1: and then charge us for doing that. And now you're

792
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: out of that, you're potentially out of that relationship. So

793
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:41,320
Speaker 1: you can save money on infrastructure, you can increase whatever

794
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 1: you want to call your surveillance system, probably call it

795
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: national defense or security. You know, something people will vote for.

796
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: But let's let's get back to the nudge. How do

797
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,799
Speaker 1: we do this. There's a journalist named Brett Scott who

798
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 1: wrote a great piece for The Guardian over in the UK,

799
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: and Scott found a great real life example. Until I

800
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:09,680
Speaker 1: heard your anecdote about toll roads, Bat, this was my

801
00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:12,479
Speaker 1: favorite one. This is still my favorite. We just pulled

802
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: the quote this. This should hit anybody. This should hit

803
00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: at home if you've been to a grocery store and

804
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: here's the quote from Brett Scott. We can illustrate this

805
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:24,520
Speaker 1: with the example of self checkout tills at supermarkets. Yes, again,

806
00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:27,719
Speaker 1: this is obviously the best example. The underlying agenda is

807
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 1: to replace checkout staff with self service machines to cut costs,

808
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: but supermarkets have to convince their customers. They thus initially

809
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:39,480
Speaker 1: present self checkout as a convenient alternative. When some people

810
00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:42,759
Speaker 1: then use that alternative, the supermarket can cite that as

811
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,560
Speaker 1: evidence of a change in customer behavior and say, hey,

812
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,479
Speaker 1: I'm just this is Matt now, hey, that's what they want.

813
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,319
Speaker 1: Right back to the quote, which they then used to

814
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: justify a reduction in checkout employees. This in turn makes

815
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: it more inconvenient to use the checkout staff, which in

816
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,919
Speaker 1: turn makes customers more likely to use the machines. Then

817
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:06,080
Speaker 1: slowly they'll wean you off staff completely and nudge you

818
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: just gently towards self service. And that is certainly a

819
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:12,600
Speaker 1: thing that has been happening, and you we can see

820
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:15,960
Speaker 1: it over the course at least in the waves that

821
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:18,919
Speaker 1: have been coming over the past what decade, for sure.

822
00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: I mean, And also think about think about how irrelevant

823
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: the data they pull is. If you want something to

824
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: sound like a good decision, sure it's it's a good

825
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: decision if you say fifty plus percent of our customers

826
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,360
Speaker 1: prefer self checkout, But you can also say eight of

827
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:46,239
Speaker 1: our customers immediately jumped on self checkout, which is an

828
00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 1: indicator of a positive trend, because it was zero, so

829
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. The numbers don't really matter well. And also,

830
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 1: I mean, just the reality of of having let's say

831
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 1: six self check out lines or lanes available, whatever you

832
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,879
Speaker 1: want to call them. Terminals and you've only got two

833
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: people on staff who are actually working in the supermarket

834
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: checking people out. Right, Now, that's less less you have

835
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: to pay into insurance. Well yeah, it's all of that,

836
00:49:17,040 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: but it's also if you're a customer standing there. You

837
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: even if you want to go and actually interact with

838
00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:26,640
Speaker 1: a person and do it that way, it's gonna move

839
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:28,440
Speaker 1: a lot slower. And you know it is just by

840
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: the fact that there are only two of those versus

841
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: six of these, right, so the line is going to

842
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 1: move faster with the the self checkout anyway. It's just

843
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,399
Speaker 1: there's so much psychology. I love that we're talking about

844
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 1: this nudge in this way. Yeah, I mean, to be

845
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: completely clear, this is just one person's opinion, one person's perspective.

846
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: I'm all about minimizing human contact. If I have a

847
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,760
Speaker 1: self that's fine, you know what I mean. That's going

848
00:49:57,760 --> 00:50:00,200
Speaker 1: into data collection thing, which I know have hobby. It's

849
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:03,839
Speaker 1: about earlier. It's like when when you call an automated

850
00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: line for utility bill or something, and now because they

851
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,680
Speaker 1: want to gather vocal data on you, not because they

852
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 1: hate you, but because they want to they want to

853
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 1: sell that to help increase the sophistication of voice recognition technology.

854
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 1: I hate that it's too much like talking to a person.

855
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 1: Let me push one, let me there's one, then let

856
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,280
Speaker 1: me push four or nine or whatever, and keep it moving.

857
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: I hear you. I think just there was the last thing.

858
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:33,000
Speaker 1: I think. Um, Primarily, I'm just speaking to the number

859
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:37,120
Speaker 1: of people that are being put out of jobs through

860
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 1: these like something like this, and will continue to be

861
00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: put out of jobs and may not be able to

862
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:44,960
Speaker 1: find a suitable job for them anywhere else, because it's

863
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: the kind of thing where you don't need to have

864
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 1: a ton of education. There's a lot like this is

865
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:53,080
Speaker 1: a good job, supermarket can be, It can be, it

866
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:55,120
Speaker 1: can be a great job, and it's just one of

867
00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: the things that it's going away like so many other

868
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: positions and on on our planet for for someone who

869
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,160
Speaker 1: just didn't happen to go and get a degree in

870
00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:09,440
Speaker 1: one field or another and drowned in debt. Right well here,

871
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: let's let's emphasize that too. I don't want to lose

872
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: what you're saying. I think it's profound. We are moving,

873
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:20,720
Speaker 1: in theory, potentially, if everything works out, we're moving towards

874
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 1: a post work economy. The kind of the post scarcity

875
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 1: stuff you hear about in fictional universe is like Star Trek. However,

876
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,080
Speaker 1: before we get there, even if we do a really

877
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: kick ass job of it, before we get to the

878
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,439
Speaker 1: post work economy, we're going to walk through the dark

879
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: woods of the post worker economy, wherein people still have

880
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,760
Speaker 1: all the same human needs, but the system has changed

881
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:50,800
Speaker 1: such that the task we have to do to satisfy

882
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: those needs, like having a job or participating the coupon system,

883
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: those options will be gone. And this, this is a

884
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: this is a real and frightening thing. You just gotta

885
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,839
Speaker 1: watch ads all day. You just have to watch ads

886
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: all day, like in Black Mirror, and your allocated funds

887
00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: have to go, you know, have to be spread out

888
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,400
Speaker 1: a certain amount every quarter, and your blinks and attention

889
00:52:12,400 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: are accounted. Cover your cameras for people. So so, I mean,

890
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:21,560
Speaker 1: I think I'm the only one at this table here

891
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't have their camera cover. I cover on my laptop,

892
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:27,640
Speaker 1: I cover my I cover one of the cameras with

893
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: a sticker that says YEA. Because I'm trying to work

894
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:35,480
Speaker 1: on being a more positive It's one day at a time, guys,

895
00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 1: So let's go back to Scott, because Scott also traces

896
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: this purely de corporate profit. He says, quote, payments companies

897
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,360
Speaker 1: such as Visa and MasterCard want to increase the volume

898
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 1: of digital payment services they sell, while banks want to

899
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,760
Speaker 1: cut cost. So it is a win win for those

900
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:57,359
Speaker 1: two genre of entity. But he continues with a little

901
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 1: bit of psychology about the nudge, and it's this the

902
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 1: nudge is it's a two part con Maybe that's unfair

903
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:08,040
Speaker 1: for me to call it that it's a two part process.

904
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 1: Do you want to call it a con be my guest.

905
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: I didn't call it that was that was that was

906
00:53:15,960 --> 00:53:18,279
Speaker 1: That was me And again that's we have to be

907
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:21,360
Speaker 1: very careful. That's one person's opinion. So first, the idea

908
00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:25,720
Speaker 1: is that we we increase the inconvenience of using cash

909
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 1: A t M s and physical branches. We increase the

910
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: barrier costs to it. Right, it's harder to find one,

911
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: maybe the hours are more and more limited, and so on.

912
00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 1: Maybe fewer places except cash like Starbucks is starting to

913
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,759
Speaker 1: experiment with cash less cash lest shops and so on.

914
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,960
Speaker 1: So the second step is it's not enough to make

915
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 1: it a pain in the ask to do this stuff,

916
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: to really sell the nudge. Then we need to aggressively,

917
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:04,480
Speaker 1: almost militantly promote our chosen alternative, our chosen successor of behavior.

918
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:11,960
Speaker 1: We're making people learn that they want digital. We're presenting

919
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:15,879
Speaker 1: it to them as though it is their idea, right,

920
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:20,719
Speaker 1: and then they are functioning under the illusion that they

921
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: have chosen it. I am so glad I can use

922
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,839
Speaker 1: this now, and I got to be able to use

923
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: this because the alternative was just so terrible. And you know,

924
00:54:31,280 --> 00:54:35,000
Speaker 1: of course this again, this is not inherently insidious. This

925
00:54:35,080 --> 00:54:39,840
Speaker 1: is a profit motive, right, and for many people, at

926
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 1: least according to the Bank's research, for many people, this

927
00:54:42,440 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: is the way they want to go. Yeah, it's pretty crazy, agreed.

928
00:54:47,239 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: So so let's look at let's look at the possible scenarios.

929
00:54:50,920 --> 00:54:56,160
Speaker 1: Let's let's get real dystopian. Yeah, the favorite right, right, right?

930
00:54:56,680 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: Uh so, hold onto your yea stickers and so on.

931
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:04,960
Speaker 1: So let's say we live in cashless economy. It's it's annominalate.

932
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 1: Pain with cash in this world is as unusual as

933
00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:10,760
Speaker 1: seeing someone in the grocery store pay with a physical

934
00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:13,719
Speaker 1: check and you're like, this line is gonna take forever now,

935
00:55:13,719 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: and then look, I got I got stuff to do.

936
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: They're counting out nickels, what the hell you know? And

937
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: then we have an escape from l a scale event

938
00:55:22,520 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 1: that wipes out all electricity, all computer networks, everything, it's

939
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: all gone. What do we do? Right? We start from scratch,

940
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 1: We go back to conk shells and and and shiny rocks,

941
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,319
Speaker 1: the barter system. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if

942
00:55:37,320 --> 00:55:39,680
Speaker 1: that's what we were going, but that's certainly one that's

943
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 1: like the most dystopian version of this situation, I think.

944
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,360
Speaker 1: And it could happen. Oh yeah, well it happened in

945
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,760
Speaker 1: Europe for about twelve hours okay, back in June. Uh

946
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,360
Speaker 1: when Visa went down. Their system was went down. So

947
00:55:55,600 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: that was pretty crazy, right. It's kind of like what

948
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:00,280
Speaker 1: happened with me that one time at the grocery store

949
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: where just you can't make any transactions anymore. Oh god,

950
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 1: what do I do? Immediately? Start looting? Is what you do? Well? No,

951
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: that's that's the that's the only reasonable thing that you

952
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,359
Speaker 1: could I would I would say, first things first, ulu

953
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: late loudly, and then take a take a knife and

954
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: cut cut cut your forearm, not deep, just just deep

955
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 1: enough to bleed so they'll be like, well, this guy's

956
00:56:23,280 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: not playing around, and look what he did to himself.

957
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:27,520
Speaker 1: Drip it right on the glass scanner thing on the

958
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:30,160
Speaker 1: on the self checkout, smear it in the shape of

959
00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,040
Speaker 1: a pentagram, and and and that'll be your payment, and

960
00:56:33,040 --> 00:56:35,560
Speaker 1: then loudly insists you were paying the blood price and

961
00:56:35,600 --> 00:56:42,920
Speaker 1: then write a check. So, uh yeah, so it is.

962
00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: It is a thing that's happened before. In the case

963
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 1: in Europe, people had cash, they had euro They could

964
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,120
Speaker 1: fall back on that and say, well, that's a real

965
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: pistol that my card doesn't work. I luckily, you know,

966
00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 1: I've got ten euro or something. But that didn't work

967
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:02,320
Speaker 1: for everybody because when the system was down, the same

968
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,000
Speaker 1: system that they would use to withdraw physical cash was

969
00:57:05,040 --> 00:57:08,400
Speaker 1: also not functioning. Right, I'm sorry, I feel like quick backtrack.

970
00:57:08,400 --> 00:57:09,759
Speaker 1: I feel like get buried the lead there a little

971
00:57:09,800 --> 00:57:14,000
Speaker 1: bit ben Ulu late, Yes, Lulu late? Is that like no, no, no, no, no,

972
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:17,360
Speaker 1: that exactly what it is. To get the full image,

973
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: It's it's lulation. Cut yourself a little, just enough to

974
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: bleed everybody. Drip yeah, hold your arm horizontal parallel to

975
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: the floor, and then cut north to south. Don't ever

976
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:36,240
Speaker 1: cut east to West. So God, thank you just for

977
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,080
Speaker 1: me like cutting, cutting the body, the human body, even

978
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:41,920
Speaker 1: just talking about it in that way. Yeah, it's not

979
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,360
Speaker 1: my favorite thing. That's why I'm saying. Guys, imagine if

980
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,640
Speaker 1: you're in line at a grocery store and you see

981
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: that happen, freaked out, right, But this is the this

982
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:53,760
Speaker 1: is the fall of society. This is not Visa going

983
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: down for twelve hours. So okay, let's say that there

984
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,520
Speaker 1: was a digital only system, right, yeah, and the power

985
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,000
Speaker 1: goes out for an extended period of time, like a week,

986
00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:05,240
Speaker 1: and there is no more cash, There is no way

987
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,040
Speaker 1: for people to trade cash. No one has access to cash.

988
00:58:08,080 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: We've decided we don't use cash anymore, and we've got

989
00:58:11,440 --> 00:58:16,320
Speaker 1: zero power. What happens right now? Right now, you would

990
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 1: have your phones perhaps, right or something some electronic device

991
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:23,720
Speaker 1: that was charged enough during the initial stages. Potentially if

992
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: you think ahead, you've got a couple of those power

993
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: bricks laying around that are charged. Maybe, But think about

994
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,720
Speaker 1: that on a citywide scale. On you know, if a

995
00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:35,760
Speaker 1: whole city's power was out, So what becomes currency then

996
00:58:36,400 --> 00:58:40,960
Speaker 1: power stored energy? I don't know, I'm just asking, I

997
00:58:41,000 --> 00:58:44,080
Speaker 1: guess just what I'm saying is it becomes a serious

998
00:58:44,120 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 1: issue with a cashless society not to have something to

999
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,800
Speaker 1: fall back on in the case of an emergency. Right,

1000
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 1: will we go to a barter system and it would

1001
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,840
Speaker 1: have to be that. How long would it? It would

1002
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 1: depend on how long it lasts, right, because the initial

1003
00:58:57,160 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: move would probably be to institute some sort of dealing

1004
00:59:00,720 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: on credit system. But if the records are gone then

1005
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 1: and you know, it gets ugly real quick. Well, let's

1006
00:59:07,320 --> 00:59:10,400
Speaker 1: say let's say that doesn't happen. Let's say somehow the

1007
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 1: house of digital cards remains steadfast despite the occasional drafts

1008
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 1: of wind. Then we move into another problem. If this

1009
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,400
Speaker 1: stuff works perfectly and nothing goes wrong on that front,

1010
00:59:22,640 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 1: we run into predictive profiles. So earlier we said they're

1011
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: collecting all this information is you move in and out

1012
00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:32,960
Speaker 1: of the sandbox. Now this find this is just one

1013
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,280
Speaker 1: piece of you, right, where As Whitman said, we're vast,

1014
00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:39,680
Speaker 1: we contain multitudes. The financial footprint is just a single

1015
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:44,720
Speaker 1: piece of you. But like your thumb, it's linked to

1016
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:48,160
Speaker 1: the rest of your body overall. So assume this financial

1017
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: information gets linked with medical backgrounds, right, and DNA testing

1018
00:59:52,320 --> 00:59:58,160
Speaker 1: your propensity for certain maybe disorders or certain uh, manifestations

1019
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:02,280
Speaker 1: of physical things. It gets tied to your employment history, right,

1020
01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 1: it gets tied to your social affiliations because you're on

1021
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:08,680
Speaker 1: social media. It gets tied maybe two, you get flagged

1022
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:13,360
Speaker 1: for controversial purchases like firearms for instance, or maybe in

1023
01:00:13,400 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: another country where planned parenthood is illegal, you get tagged

1024
01:00:19,040 --> 01:00:22,880
Speaker 1: for pain for something that would be a contraceptive or uh,

1025
01:00:23,040 --> 01:00:25,960
Speaker 1: you know, terminating a pregnancy. And it also gets linked

1026
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: up with your Google travel information where you've actually been

1027
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:31,640
Speaker 1: in real time for the past x years that you've

1028
01:00:31,640 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 1: had that device, your GPS, and it does go back

1029
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: the permanent record is real. And then let's say it

1030
01:00:37,440 --> 01:00:40,600
Speaker 1: gets linked to a criminal background if someone has something

1031
01:00:40,680 --> 01:00:44,240
Speaker 1: like that. How far away are we from a world

1032
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:48,480
Speaker 1: in which you can legally be detained before you commit

1033
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: any sort of crime just because there's a profile set

1034
01:00:52,040 --> 01:00:56,000
Speaker 1: against you, and that this profile has reached something in

1035
01:00:56,040 --> 01:00:59,520
Speaker 1: its algorithm where it says, for instance, uh, you know,

1036
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:05,480
Speaker 1: this person is now more than fifty likely to let's

1037
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: say default on a carlo. I mean they essentially already

1038
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 1: do that when making the calculus as to whether to

1039
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 1: give you the loan in the first place. That's true,

1040
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:17,840
Speaker 1: let's link it to something scared. What if they what

1041
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:23,040
Speaker 1: if I'm agree with you, that same calculus could be

1042
01:01:23,080 --> 01:01:27,120
Speaker 1: applied to scarier things, right, right, right? So like let's say,

1043
01:01:27,280 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: let's say instead your financial information is linked with your

1044
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,520
Speaker 1: medical background, and you are buying We're just making this up.

1045
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:43,080
Speaker 1: Your your purchases are indicative of the development, the nascent

1046
01:01:43,080 --> 01:01:47,640
Speaker 1: development of a medical condition that your background says runs

1047
01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 1: in your family. And then your insurance gets pre pulled

1048
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: because they say, you know, the stuff this person is

1049
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: buying is indicative of a very expensive thing that we

1050
01:01:57,640 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 1: don't want to pay for it, right, And the legality

1051
01:01:59,800 --> 01:02:04,520
Speaker 1: of that in our society in America, I imagine this

1052
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 1: is super gray, right because can't I mean, you know,

1053
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: can't your insurance provider deny you for any pre existing conditions?

1054
01:02:12,280 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: I mean it's all self reporting, I guess. But they

1055
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: can find out that you were lying, and they could

1056
01:02:18,440 --> 01:02:22,040
Speaker 1: theoretically find out you were lying based on set algorithm

1057
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: and say, oh, we were just doing our due diligence.

1058
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 1: We had access to this information. What did you expect

1059
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,840
Speaker 1: us to do? We're looking out for our interests and

1060
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: let's ignore the fact that life is a pre existing condition.

1061
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's maybe that's another episode, but you're absolutely right.

1062
01:02:37,920 --> 01:02:41,240
Speaker 1: The technology and the trends are there, even if we're

1063
01:02:41,280 --> 01:02:44,560
Speaker 1: not there yet as a species or as a society.

1064
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:48,640
Speaker 1: There's there's one last one, which is an oldie but

1065
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: a goodie. It's the gritty reboot of using control of

1066
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:55,640
Speaker 1: a currency as a weapon. And this this happens all

1067
01:02:55,680 --> 01:02:59,760
Speaker 1: the time. We've read Confessions of an Economic Hitman. Fantastic.

1068
01:03:00,840 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 1: Now it becomes more dystopian in an age of digital currency,

1069
01:03:04,080 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: now that we're just trading ideas without any physical representation.

1070
01:03:09,640 --> 01:03:12,640
Speaker 1: One great example of this, which is still ridiculous to me,

1071
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 1: is remember when the Amazon Kindle came out right and

1072
01:03:16,000 --> 01:03:18,280
Speaker 1: people are like, oh, this is so convenient, I don't

1073
01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:21,960
Speaker 1: have to haul around tombs anymore. And affordable. It was

1074
01:03:22,080 --> 01:03:24,360
Speaker 1: super affordable. That was a big part. They were selling

1075
01:03:24,400 --> 01:03:26,840
Speaker 1: the tech at a loss, right the way that Sony

1076
01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,919
Speaker 1: sold the PlayStation three and four at a loss because

1077
01:03:29,920 --> 01:03:32,760
Speaker 1: they were making money on the back end. I don't know,

1078
01:03:32,760 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 1: on the cashless part, on the app, the app store

1079
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: or whatever, the transaction and the games, and I don't

1080
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,120
Speaker 1: know why I did that. Weird voice. But it's true.

1081
01:03:41,560 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: So when the Kindle came out, tons and tons of

1082
01:03:44,720 --> 01:03:46,920
Speaker 1: people got this, and they got it as a gift

1083
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,320
Speaker 1: for their relatives, the readers in their life. They got

1084
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: it for themselves, especially people have traveled a lot, so

1085
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:57,080
Speaker 1: on and so on. But then, as reported by The

1086
01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,520
Speaker 1: New York Times, people found that some book, one book

1087
01:04:00,520 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 1: in particular, was being remotely wiped from their digital libraries.

1088
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,320
Speaker 1: It didn't matter that they paid for it, it it didn't

1089
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: matter that they possessed it as defined by their agreement

1090
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:15,320
Speaker 1: with Amazon or the publisher. It just disappeared. So imagine,

1091
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: now take it one more step, and it's not a

1092
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: very large nor very steep step. And let's say we

1093
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:27,120
Speaker 1: are political activists, or we are members of an oppressed community.

1094
01:04:27,160 --> 01:04:32,640
Speaker 1: I mean vegans. Vegans got tracked by the FBI for

1095
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,919
Speaker 1: their diet and they weren't doing anything disruptive. So perhaps

1096
01:04:38,960 --> 01:04:41,440
Speaker 1: this oppressed community we're in, let's say we're like the

1097
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: weaker population in western China, and we're an increasingly open

1098
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: conflict with the state level government. If we have physical currency,

1099
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:54,480
Speaker 1: we can make non approved purchases. We can buy maybe

1100
01:04:54,600 --> 01:04:58,919
Speaker 1: radio parts to create our own radio station, things like that.

1101
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: We digital currency. It is technologically feasible in the case

1102
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,280
Speaker 1: of this happening yet, but it is technologically possible for

1103
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:13,160
Speaker 1: a single entity to instantaneously a race all of the

1104
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: currency you possess. You have gone from a million to zero.

1105
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,600
Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy. One last detail there the

1106
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,160
Speaker 1: book that was removed from the Kindle Do you guys

1107
01:05:25,200 --> 01:05:31,400
Speaker 1: remember which one it wasn't it was George Orwell. I

1108
01:05:31,520 --> 01:05:35,760
Speaker 1: think that's a nice thematic circle. What are you saying?

1109
01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: He's saying they removed it because they didn't want people

1110
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,400
Speaker 1: to get wise to their scheme. It was obviously a

1111
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:49,440
Speaker 1: licensing issue. They only had they use to have it

1112
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:51,080
Speaker 1: there for a certain amount of time, and they ran

1113
01:05:51,120 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: out of that period. Are you kidding? No, I don't

1114
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:57,680
Speaker 1: know what happened. That's the only thing I can imagine washing.

1115
01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:01,000
Speaker 1: I don't think there's just a gets funny. I think

1116
01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:03,240
Speaker 1: it's funny. I think it's gallas humor. I don't think

1117
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 1: they were scooby Doo enough to be like, oh, these

1118
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: pesky kids are gonna find out about the threat of

1119
01:06:08,400 --> 01:06:14,680
Speaker 1: a surveillance state. Jessup, did you notice that almost all

1120
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: the kindle purchases are reading this nineteen dreadful, dreadful, What

1121
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,680
Speaker 1: what's to be done? A bit worried they may begin

1122
01:06:26,080 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: thinking about their own situation. No, we wouldn't want that.

1123
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:34,280
Speaker 1: The hyperloy most best. Just nip it in the bottom,

1124
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 1: old bean, go ahead and wipe it, wipe it all,

1125
01:06:38,560 --> 01:06:43,600
Speaker 1: tally ho. Now back to the meeting and Pip pip. Yes, yeah,

1126
01:06:43,680 --> 01:06:46,480
Speaker 1: that's a that's a reenactment. We were reading quotes. That's

1127
01:06:46,480 --> 01:06:51,520
Speaker 1: a conversation. That was an Illuminati boardroom conversation at Amazon. Yeah,

1128
01:06:51,640 --> 01:06:54,400
Speaker 1: at Amazon. It's up to you to figure out what

1129
01:06:54,480 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 1: Jeff Bezos was doing. He actually he is in those meetings,

1130
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:01,200
Speaker 1: but I think it's mainly to bring coffee to those dudes.

1131
01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,280
Speaker 1: There's an Illuminati lounge and most big corporations. Yeah yeah, yeah,

1132
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,600
Speaker 1: we've got one. It's not as nice as I would like.

1133
01:07:09,040 --> 01:07:12,040
Speaker 1: It's not here in Atlanta. No, no, it's in New York. Yeah,

1134
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:13,920
Speaker 1: of course in New York. But it's like Comin's in

1135
01:07:13,920 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: New York. You guys can get fresh bagels. You run

1136
01:07:16,480 --> 01:07:19,560
Speaker 1: the world. I don't know. They say it's a cost

1137
01:07:19,560 --> 01:07:22,840
Speaker 1: cutting things for a different day, but this is this

1138
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,160
Speaker 1: is where it leaves us, right, this story is not

1139
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:29,000
Speaker 1: over and parts of this story haven't happened yet, but

1140
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:32,440
Speaker 1: it's quite possible they will. The trend toward digital currency continues,

1141
01:07:33,000 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 1: cash still seems set to move along. Right when Kendall's

1142
01:07:36,800 --> 01:07:39,400
Speaker 1: came out, a lot of people were making noise about

1143
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:43,560
Speaker 1: the so called death of the book. The book probably

1144
01:07:43,600 --> 01:07:46,680
Speaker 1: won't die because it is cost effective, and there are

1145
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:49,920
Speaker 1: just so many of them out there, and they are

1146
01:07:49,960 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: also unlike a kindle, unlike electronic methods of reading. They

1147
01:07:55,400 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 1: are also very much air gapped. You know what I

1148
01:07:58,640 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 1: mean if you that's why burning books is still a thing.

1149
01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: If you want to destroy the knowledge and books, you

1150
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:07,200
Speaker 1: have to destroy every physical copy of it, or you

1151
01:08:07,240 --> 01:08:09,439
Speaker 1: have to destroy the knowledge of the language in which

1152
01:08:09,440 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 1: the book is written. And between the two, the former

1153
01:08:13,840 --> 01:08:17,320
Speaker 1: is much easier to accomplish. Right. It is weird that

1154
01:08:17,360 --> 01:08:23,160
Speaker 1: they don't require any kind of battery or m WiFi connection, right,

1155
01:08:23,240 --> 01:08:26,400
Speaker 1: And you don't have to subscribe, you don't have to

1156
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: put your credit card info in I don't know books, man,

1157
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:34,080
Speaker 1: that's weird. Is so old school, so we know, and

1158
01:08:34,200 --> 01:08:36,880
Speaker 1: maybe that's just I don't know, maybe that's a little

1159
01:08:36,920 --> 01:08:39,800
Speaker 1: too alarmoust but cash is probably not going to go

1160
01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: away for some of the same reasons the books haven't

1161
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: gone away. Also, the move toward digital currency is supported,

1162
01:08:47,640 --> 01:08:51,320
Speaker 1: make no mistake by very very powerful forces, both in

1163
01:08:51,360 --> 01:08:53,840
Speaker 1: the private sectors, the financial sectors, but also in the

1164
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:58,360
Speaker 1: public sectors too. If you want an authoritarian government, removing

1165
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:03,919
Speaker 1: physical currency is a great step forward. There's an arguable

1166
01:09:04,000 --> 01:09:08,599
Speaker 1: case of tremendous potential profit for those entities that side

1167
01:09:08,600 --> 01:09:13,719
Speaker 1: of the argument, and the customers most of the people

1168
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 1: listening today, you yes, you specifically the end user of

1169
01:09:17,120 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 1: currency in cash, you genuinely have very little say in

1170
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:25,760
Speaker 1: this matter. No, of course, the forces at play on

1171
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:28,360
Speaker 1: the other side of the conversation, they will argue that

1172
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:31,559
Speaker 1: the move to digital currency is a win win for

1173
01:09:31,600 --> 01:09:34,280
Speaker 1: all parties, and those concerns we outlined are just that

1174
01:09:34,360 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 1: there's sensationalists, their fear mongering. So ask yourself do you

1175
01:09:40,160 --> 01:09:43,519
Speaker 1: believe their arguments? And if it turns out that even

1176
01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:47,320
Speaker 1: one of those disturbing possibilities outlines here becomes a reality,

1177
01:09:48,120 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 1: how would a society return from the precipice? Would there,

1178
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:56,080
Speaker 1: in short, be a way to reverse the trend if

1179
01:09:56,120 --> 01:10:00,800
Speaker 1: it became clear the eight of people hated this, You know,

1180
01:10:00,840 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 1: the way this game works, Uh, there's probably a human

1181
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,840
Speaker 1: interest story that shows the dangerous applications. Let's say it

1182
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:13,160
Speaker 1: goes viral and over half find over half of the

1183
01:10:13,240 --> 01:10:18,479
Speaker 1: people who can protest this stuff start protesting it. Will

1184
01:10:18,520 --> 01:10:20,720
Speaker 1: it step back? Is there a way? Where? Is it?

1185
01:10:20,760 --> 01:10:24,360
Speaker 1: Like Pandora's jar. One thing we know that's absolutely certain

1186
01:10:24,439 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 1: is this, when it comes to a cashless society, there

1187
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,160
Speaker 1: are plenty of things out there the banks and your

1188
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:33,120
Speaker 1: government do not want you to know, or at least

1189
01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:35,839
Speaker 1: there is stuff they don't want you to think about

1190
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,479
Speaker 1: too long or too deeply until it's too late to

1191
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: turn back. I don't know, Maybe maybe it's a rant.

1192
01:10:43,560 --> 01:10:44,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, what do you what do you guys

1193
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:47,759
Speaker 1: think you could turn back now or learn the stuff

1194
01:10:47,800 --> 01:10:49,800
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know now? And I think

1195
01:10:49,800 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: you're right on there. Be it feels as though it

1196
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,559
Speaker 1: feels as that we have to go mostly cash less.

1197
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,599
Speaker 1: But I think the scariest thing is that last nudge

1198
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:06,400
Speaker 1: towards fully cash less, just because of those scenarios we

1199
01:11:06,400 --> 01:11:09,200
Speaker 1: we built out there, Because everything right here towards the

1200
01:11:09,240 --> 01:11:12,600
Speaker 1: end of this episode, it does feel like a dangerous

1201
01:11:12,640 --> 01:11:17,120
Speaker 1: scenario of of digitizing completely that that for sure the

1202
01:11:17,320 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: big picture dystopian kind of model and the fears there.

1203
01:11:20,439 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 1: But you know, we have gotten to a place where

1204
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:28,120
Speaker 1: even like you know, a very small independent um entrepreneur,

1205
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:30,720
Speaker 1: or like someone in a farmer's market say, or a

1206
01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:33,519
Speaker 1: crafts fair can take a card when that used to

1207
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 1: be prohibitive. Now you got your squares and you just

1208
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:38,600
Speaker 1: put it on your smartphone. But you're also paying for

1209
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: the privilege of getting paid. And that's a thing too.

1210
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:45,000
Speaker 1: It sort of takes advantage of people, you know, for

1211
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 1: participating in this cashless system, whereas if someone gives you cash,

1212
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:52,120
Speaker 1: it's all yours. Or people are leaning now more towards

1213
01:11:52,240 --> 01:11:56,280
Speaker 1: Venmo because there's no fees associated with that for some reason,

1214
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:58,080
Speaker 1: which is weird to me because I don't understand how

1215
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,439
Speaker 1: they make money. There is a way where you can

1216
01:12:00,520 --> 01:12:02,240
Speaker 1: have now there's a new feature on Venmo where to

1217
01:12:02,360 --> 01:12:05,080
Speaker 1: do that bank transfer and have you can instance, it's

1218
01:12:05,120 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 1: like a little, you know, a negligible portion of the

1219
01:12:08,800 --> 01:12:11,160
Speaker 1: total amount. In the same way when you do a

1220
01:12:11,160 --> 01:12:13,519
Speaker 1: balance transfer on a credit card, they make their money

1221
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,360
Speaker 1: on charging you a little small percentage of the overall amount.

1222
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 1: They get a big So wait, let's say, let's say

1223
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,559
Speaker 1: you're using Venemo, how long does it take for your

1224
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,920
Speaker 1: drug dealer to get paid? I worry about that. You know,

1225
01:12:25,040 --> 01:12:27,400
Speaker 1: drug dealers is some you can be. It's it can

1226
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:30,599
Speaker 1: be a very lonely life. I'm just putting this out there.

1227
01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: You know, you get the money instantly, but you you

1228
01:12:32,640 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: but you might maybe if you're a drug dealer or

1229
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:39,599
Speaker 1: any other small entrepreneur who's getting paid with venmo. Um,

1230
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 1: you don't do the bank transfer right away. You do

1231
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 1: it all all at once, once you've made you know

1232
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:47,120
Speaker 1: as a significant number of transactions, and then you do

1233
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: it all at once. You wouldn't get paid twenty bucks

1234
01:12:50,000 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 1: for a marijuana cigarette and then transfer that twenty bucks

1235
01:12:55,520 --> 01:12:58,200
Speaker 1: right away. You'd wait until you've sold you know, uh

1236
01:12:58,920 --> 01:13:01,280
Speaker 1: several Marri wanna sick just putting this out there. I

1237
01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:04,720
Speaker 1: don't have Venmo. I've never used Venmo, I probably will

1238
01:13:04,760 --> 01:13:07,320
Speaker 1: never use. I pay my rent with them. I feel

1239
01:13:07,360 --> 01:13:09,439
Speaker 1: like you're really high roading me right now, dude. I'm

1240
01:13:09,439 --> 01:13:12,400
Speaker 1: not high roading anybody. I'm just telling you that Venmo

1241
01:13:12,640 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 1: is a giant informant. Venmo knows that all you're doing

1242
01:13:16,120 --> 01:13:20,040
Speaker 1: is buying and selling drugs and every time you use it,

1243
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: you are talking about it to the person that you

1244
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:27,320
Speaker 1: are selling or buying drugs too. I'm talking to you

1245
01:13:27,400 --> 01:13:29,840
Speaker 1: out there listening every time you do it. I have

1246
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:33,360
Speaker 1: seen this occur. I've looked at it. You are literally

1247
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:41,120
Speaker 1: putting evidence you are right, that there is no He's right.

1248
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:44,280
Speaker 1: It's evidence of living in the moment, man, It's evidence

1249
01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,599
Speaker 1: of having a good time, like yolo, I agree, but

1250
01:13:47,760 --> 01:13:52,320
Speaker 1: like it's just so it feels so short sighted to

1251
01:13:52,479 --> 01:13:56,240
Speaker 1: actually pay for just be careful guys, or just don't

1252
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: buy and sell drugs. Like maybe it's short sighted on

1253
01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:02,600
Speaker 1: the deal your side to get paid that way. I

1254
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:04,200
Speaker 1: don't know. I guess it works both ways because there's

1255
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:06,200
Speaker 1: a transaction of both ends and there's a record of

1256
01:14:06,240 --> 01:14:08,600
Speaker 1: both into the You are now a known associate of

1257
01:14:08,640 --> 01:14:11,400
Speaker 1: that person. I suppose that's true. We're all getting Kevin

1258
01:14:11,400 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: Bacons into prison. Man. Ever since the post nine eleven

1259
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 1: society and the Patriot Act, you know, that's that's the

1260
01:14:17,560 --> 01:14:20,120
Speaker 1: way the n s A and the Alphabet Soup agencies

1261
01:14:20,520 --> 01:14:23,599
Speaker 1: vacuum up potential terrorists. Doesn't have to be your friend,

1262
01:14:23,680 --> 01:14:25,640
Speaker 1: doesn't have to be your friend's friend. It could be

1263
01:14:25,680 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 1: your friend's friend's friend. I think it goes to six

1264
01:14:28,240 --> 01:14:31,320
Speaker 1: degrees of separation. Actually, well, thank god they're more worried

1265
01:14:31,360 --> 01:14:36,400
Speaker 1: about terrorism than small, low level drug deals. Right now,

1266
01:14:36,640 --> 01:14:38,639
Speaker 1: you don't know. That's a big you never it could

1267
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: switch on you. That stuff is gonna be on record

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01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:44,519
Speaker 1: until oh wait, let me see apocalypse times. So maybe

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01:14:44,560 --> 01:14:47,000
Speaker 1: just dummy it up, do some transactions and make you

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01:14:47,040 --> 01:14:49,640
Speaker 1: look like a great person. Donate some money to a

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01:14:49,720 --> 01:14:52,800
Speaker 1: cause that those authoritarians would agree with. But we want

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01:14:52,840 --> 01:14:54,960
Speaker 1: to know what you think. Well, this episode has ended,

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01:14:55,000 --> 01:14:58,040
Speaker 1: the show continues on, and you're the most important part

1274
01:14:58,040 --> 01:15:01,000
Speaker 1: of the conversation. So find us and your fellow listeners

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01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter. We particularly like to

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01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,639
Speaker 1: recommend our Facebook community page. Here's where it gets crazy.

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01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:12,200
Speaker 1: You can also find all or some of us as

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01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:15,320
Speaker 1: individuals on the internet. I am at Ben Bowling on

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01:15:15,400 --> 01:15:18,600
Speaker 1: Instagram tune in for some more strange adventures in the

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01:15:18,680 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: near future, and m EP and Bowling hs W on Twitter.

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01:15:21,439 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: You can find me exclusively on Instagram at how Now

1282
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:28,000
Speaker 1: Noel Brown. You can find Matt on Venmo. Yeah, all

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01:15:28,080 --> 01:15:30,439
Speaker 1: of Venmo. I'm just watching what you're doing and all

1284
01:15:30,479 --> 01:15:32,479
Speaker 1: the drugs you're buying, make sure to comment on all

1285
01:15:32,520 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: his transactions, because that's the thing. People do it really well.

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01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:38,640
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a feed, you know, so

1287
01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:41,080
Speaker 1: you can make little you can't comment, but you can

1288
01:15:41,120 --> 01:15:44,439
Speaker 1: like them. It's very strange. Make everything private. It's the

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01:15:44,520 --> 01:15:46,160
Speaker 1: best of your ability. If you don't want to do

1290
01:15:46,200 --> 01:15:47,800
Speaker 1: any of that stuff, give us a call. Our number

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Speaker 1: is one eight three three S T T W y

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01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:54,040
Speaker 1: t K. Leave us a message. You might get on

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01:15:54,080 --> 01:15:56,280
Speaker 1: the show. At least we're gonna hear, and we really

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01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:59,000
Speaker 1: do appreciate your time doing that. We love hearing from you.

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01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:01,519
Speaker 1: If you don't want to do any of that, please

1296
01:16:02,000 --> 01:16:04,440
Speaker 1: send us a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy

1297
01:16:04,479 --> 01:16:26,000
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01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,040
Speaker 1: to Know is a production of I Heart Radio's How

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01:16:28,120 --> 01:16:31,000
Speaker 1: Stuff Works. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.