Speaker 1: Before we start, I just wanted to let you know
Speaker 1: that this interview was conducted before the sag After Strike
Speaker 1: went into effect. Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said
Speaker 1: this before with me Tommy Didario. Today's guest is the
Speaker 1: incredible Catherine mcnamarina. Now get ready for all of this.
Speaker 1: Kat is an actor, dancer, singer, songwriter, writer. The list
Speaker 1: goes on and on. She started her career on Broadway
Speaker 1: in the revival of A Little Night Music, and then
Speaker 1: moved into film and television, in which she played the
Speaker 1: role of Clari Fray in the supernatural demon hunting show
Speaker 1: Shadow Hunters, Sonya in the Maze Runner trilogy, she took
Speaker 1: on the Mantle of the Green Arrow as me a
Speaker 1: Smoke in Arrow, Julia Lowry in Paramount Plus's adaptation of
Speaker 1: Stephen King's The Stand, and so much more. She recently
Speaker 1: stepped into the role of Abby Walker in Walker Independence
Speaker 1: for the CW, which was a great Western definitely check
Speaker 1: that out. And this coupled with her very own podcast,
Speaker 1: Returned to the Shadows and several developments in the work,
Speaker 1: plus her work with Girl Up and The Big Slick. Well,
Speaker 1: needless to say, she never shoes away from taking on
Speaker 1: a challenge. This is a very special human being who
Speaker 1: I mean, man, I have so much love for So
Speaker 1: let's see if today we can get Kat say something
Speaker 1: that she's never said before. Kat. We have had many
Speaker 1: meals together, many deep conversations, which I adore and I love.
Speaker 1: One of the things I love most about you is
Speaker 1: how we can connect on so many different topics. And
Speaker 1: one of the first things you told me. I don't
Speaker 1: know if you remember this when when we had I
Speaker 1: think our very first meal is I was saying that
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm an old soul, and you said,
Speaker 1: you know, Tommy, I feel like I'm somebody that's trapped
Speaker 1: in the nineteen fifties, but in a twenty something, your
Speaker 1: old body.
Speaker 2: It's true, I'm just a grandma.
Speaker 1: You know what do you mean by that?
Speaker 2: Well, I bag on nit and I drank Scotch, So
Speaker 2: I think that's the surface level of it. No, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Certain souls have been around for a long time,
Speaker 2: and other souls are new and exciting, and this maybe
Speaker 2: is the first trip around this life cycle that we have.
Speaker 2: But I always think it's fascinating to see how it
Speaker 2: kind of exhibits itself in different people.
Speaker 1: I'm with you. I believe that we've lived different lives,
Speaker 1: and I consider myself a very, very old soul, and
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the ways we connected right away.
Speaker 2: So absolutely, yeah, it's great. And I think it's you know,
Speaker 2: if you can actually find someone that you can genuinely
Speaker 2: talk to about the way you see the world and
Speaker 2: the way that the world interacts with you and vice versa.
Speaker 2: I always find that fascinating, and maybe that's why I'm
Speaker 2: an actor. I think a lot about that, and that's
Speaker 2: part of why I love my job, is because I
Speaker 2: love getting to not only live a million different lives,
Speaker 2: but figure out the why. You get a script and
Speaker 2: you have the A to Z or you know, if
Speaker 2: it's the TV show, you have the first hour of
Speaker 2: the A to Z of a character and the choices
Speaker 2: they make and all that, but then it's up to
Speaker 2: you and the director and the other folks involved to
Speaker 2: figure out the why and why they make those choices
Speaker 2: and what part of who they are and what makes
Speaker 2: them who they are, what has made them who they
Speaker 2: are that then causes them to make these choices. And
Speaker 2: I just found it fascinating to discover that in people
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Well. Speaking of your work, we have to dive into
Speaker 1: one of your most fan favorite, beloved projects you've ever done,
Speaker 1: which is Shadow Hunters. Of course, course, of course, you
Speaker 1: played the wonderful character, wonderful character that people. I swear
Speaker 1: to God, I see this name trending on Twitter all
Speaker 1: the time. Still I don't know what you do, but
Speaker 1: Clarie Ray is always trending, and she is this badass,
Speaker 1: demon hunting, fighting character. I know. This is a role
Speaker 1: that completely changed the course of your life. Now I
Speaker 1: read that you didn't find out you booked this role
Speaker 1: until ten minutes before Twitter did. Is that true?
Speaker 2: That is very true?
Speaker 1: How is that possible? What was that like?
Speaker 2: It was bananas, to be truly frank with you, But
Speaker 2: it that whole process because the book series, you know,
Speaker 2: wasn't The Mortal Instrument's book series was an international best
Speaker 2: selling book series and they had just done a film
Speaker 2: a few years prior. You know, this fandom was so
Speaker 2: hungry and so ready for the next iteration of what
Speaker 2: that story was going to be. And that wasn't lost
Speaker 2: on you know, Freeform, which was ABC Family at the time,
Speaker 2: and they had McGee at the helm as our director
Speaker 2: of the pilot and one of our producers, and so
Speaker 2: a lot of things were very active on social media,
Speaker 2: and as they were sort of announcing things, I was
Speaker 2: down between me and one other girl, and I had
Speaker 2: about four screen tests at this point, and comes through
Speaker 2: tests with Dom who played Jay Smith, Alberta who played Simon,
Speaker 2: and a few of the other Simons, and we'd all
Speaker 2: kind of been rotating in this cycle for so long,
Speaker 2: and I still hadn't heard anything. And it was the
Speaker 2: day that they were supposed to announce it, and then
Speaker 2: you know, hadn't heard, hadn't heard? And I saw on
Speaker 2: Twitter the Shadow Hunter's Twitter account for the TV series,
Speaker 2: which had already been created by the network and starting
Speaker 2: to be active and do things. They said, Hey, we're
Speaker 2: going to announce who we've cast as Clary in two hours.
Speaker 2: And I looked at it and I went, well, it
Speaker 2: must not be me then, because I would certainly know
Speaker 2: by this point. So I called my team, and I
Speaker 2: called my managers and my agents, and I was like, Hey,
Speaker 2: have we heard anything? Do we know what's going on?
Speaker 2: They said, no, nobody's heard anything. Neither neither you nor
Speaker 2: the other actress have heard anything. So we don't know,
Speaker 2: nobody knows, and so I'm sitting there for two hours.
Speaker 2: I went to the gym, actually, and if you know
Speaker 2: me at all, you know I have to put this
Speaker 2: energy somewhere. So I went to the gym and I'm
Speaker 2: like on the treadmill, like okay, I don't know. I'm
Speaker 2: just not going to think about it. And then ten
Speaker 2: minutes before it's it's announced, Who's Clary is trending? Like
Speaker 2: all this stuff is happening, I get the phone call.
Speaker 2: I'm like, hey, just we're so sorry that it's taken
Speaker 2: us this long, but we are so excited to tell
Speaker 2: you that you're going to be playing Clari Fray and
Speaker 2: all this stuff. And oh, by the way, can you
Speaker 2: run over to the ABC Family offices because they want
Speaker 2: you to make some videos for social media right now
Speaker 2: that they can post. Going I just left the gym,
Speaker 2: but sure, because I lived around the corner basically, so
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, here I go. And then my phone
Speaker 2: quit working about ten minutes later because obviously I still
Speaker 2: didn't you know, I didn't have my notifications turned off.
Speaker 2: I didn't have anything because I'd never experienced anything like this,
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you know, Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 2: and text messages and phone calls and everything are just
Speaker 2: pouring in and my poor little phone just can't take it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's an incredibly special show. Something that strikes me
Speaker 1: about shadow Hunters is it's this magical world with half
Speaker 1: human half angels and werewolves and vampires and all sorts
Speaker 1: of you know, these supernatural creatures. Yet it's grounded in
Speaker 1: such real life topical things that people feel seen by
Speaker 1: and they can relate to. Talk to me a bit
Speaker 1: about that side of the show.
Speaker 2: Well that I think, as you so aptly put it,
Speaker 2: that is the magic of shadow Hunters and of the
Speaker 2: story is that, yeah, you have and of the you know,
Speaker 2: the fantasy genre in general. You have these creatures that
Speaker 2: have these supernatural powers and that are so gifted in
Speaker 2: so many ways and can do these things and save
Speaker 2: the world, and yet they still are having problems with
Speaker 2: their relationship or they're having trouble connecting with their parents
Speaker 2: or figuring out who they are and where they want
Speaker 2: to be in the world, or who they are and
Speaker 2: who they want to love, or whatever it ends up being.
Speaker 2: And it's it's a way of looking at your own
Speaker 2: situation and your own problems where you can actually be
Speaker 2: objective and you can look and go, Okay, if they
Speaker 2: can get through this and still save the world, maybe
Speaker 2: I can just get through my problems and you know,
Speaker 2: everyday life. But it also did the writers did such
Speaker 2: a nice job of humanizing all of these characters and
Speaker 2: really making them flawed and interesting, and you know that's
Speaker 2: that is something that I loved so much about Clarie
Speaker 2: is that she wasn't perfect, and time and time again
Speaker 2: she fell flat on her face but got back up
Speaker 2: and tried to do the right thing no matter how
Speaker 2: many times she messed up.
Speaker 1: You have quite an epic love adventure throughout the series
Speaker 1: with your pro star dom Suo Jace as he is known.
Speaker 1: People love watching you two and seeing how that relationship
Speaker 1: was going to unfold. It's actually quite funny. The two
Speaker 1: of you have a photo I don't know if I
Speaker 1: think it was in an episode in front of the
Speaker 1: Eiffel Tower, right, oh yeah, kissing which Geo and I
Speaker 1: got engaged and he proposed to me in front of
Speaker 1: the Eiffel Tower, and the fandom started putting the picture
Speaker 1: side by side and it's almost an identical picture.
Speaker 2: It's wild so if anyone's seen the movie inception, it's
Speaker 2: that bridge that they use in the end of it,
Speaker 2: and there's a perfect view of the Eiffel Tower in
Speaker 2: the background. And we were lucky enough to be able
Speaker 2: to actually shoot the bits of the story that take
Speaker 2: place in Paris in Paris, and of course there's this
Speaker 2: big reuniting scene where I get saved from the bad
Speaker 2: guys and we fight them off, and then we're finally reunited,
Speaker 2: and then there's the kiss. But I have a feeling
Speaker 2: that it's nothing the stories, But from the stories that
Speaker 2: I've heard from you and Geo, that romantic scene was
Speaker 2: nothing compared to what you and Geo had on that bridge.
Speaker 2: So it's off to you and my friends.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you give us a run for
Speaker 1: our money. That was a beautiful moment and photo and
Speaker 1: part of the show. Working with such a close friend,
Speaker 1: I imagine must have been so much fun. How did
Speaker 1: you guys build that relationship throughout the series and form
Speaker 1: that chemistry because it's not always an easy thing to do.
Speaker 2: It's not but again, it was lightning in a bottle
Speaker 2: that show. We were so lucky. I mean, I knew
Speaker 2: Don before, so the ice was already broken for us.
Speaker 2: We've been friends for like a year just in you know,
Speaker 2: this crazy town. But it was so nice to have
Speaker 2: someone on set that I already knew, and to have
Speaker 2: someone there that you know, we'd already the ice was broken.
Speaker 2: We already had a connection, We already had a comfortability
Speaker 2: with each other that we could just play and very
Speaker 2: quickly the rest of the cast clicked and gelled in
Speaker 2: the very same way. You know, I Alberto who played Simon.
Speaker 2: He and I, our characters were supposed to have been
Speaker 2: best friends since childhood, spend every day together, do you
Speaker 2: know absolutely everything, know everything about each other, And that's
Speaker 2: the sort of relationship that you can very quickly see through,
Speaker 2: you know that, or a romantic one like the Domini
Speaker 2: had on on screen. It's fascinating the way that we
Speaker 2: just were able to build it and spend time together.
Speaker 2: And a lot of that was because we spent time
Speaker 2: training together, and we would you know, we all moved
Speaker 2: to Toronto together and we were the only people we
Speaker 2: all knew, so we just spent all of our time together.
Speaker 2: But it also has a lot to do with trust,
Speaker 2: and we were just very quickly able to form this
Speaker 2: bond and to trust each other and go, Okay, we're
Speaker 2: in this. We're going to be here, hopefully for several years,
Speaker 2: and we all wanted to make something great, and we
Speaker 2: all really cared about the story and about the characters,
Speaker 2: and we're so invested in making this more than you know,
Speaker 2: just another fantasy show. And I think you really see that,
Speaker 2: you know. I always point to Harry Shum Junior and
Speaker 2: Matt Tadario who played Magnus and Alec on the show,
Speaker 2: and to their relationship and all the work that they
Speaker 2: put into that and all of the time and energy
Speaker 2: they put into really making this relationship nuanced and real
Speaker 2: and wonderful. And having gone back and rewatched parts of
Speaker 2: the series, now you really see that in so many ways.
Speaker 1: And this just came into my mind and go with
Speaker 1: me here. It's kind of a random technical acting question
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Okay, all right, I'm here.
Speaker 1: When you're playing this this, you know, romance out for
Speaker 1: a season after season after season. How do two performers
Speaker 1: keep it platonic? Right? How do you not let that
Speaker 1: work crossover into like falling in love with each other
Speaker 1: because you're working together every day and you're intimate in
Speaker 1: the scenes, of course, and so do you know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? How do you? I'm sure some people do,
Speaker 1: But is it a weird line to straddle?
Speaker 2: For me, it's not. And I don't know what that
Speaker 2: says about me as a human being, But for me,
Speaker 2: it's always been very clinical and almost technical. You know,
Speaker 2: there's a very distinct separation for me between you know,
Speaker 2: personal life and what happens on screen. And I think
Speaker 2: it could also be because I had such a great
Speaker 2: friendship with everyone. I had pre existing relationships with folks
Speaker 2: that I was on screen with. But then also, you know,
Speaker 2: when you're when they make them look like the most
Speaker 2: romantic moments that ever exist, with the music and the
Speaker 2: lighting and the camera movements and everything is just happening
Speaker 2: all at once, But in reality, there's about thirty guys
Speaker 2: with equipment and cargo shorts three feet from your face
Speaker 2: and a director yelling at you from across the room
Speaker 2: trying to figure out what to do, and it's the
Speaker 2: least romantic thing you will ever do in your life.
Speaker 2: That's part of it. But also it's funny looking back
Speaker 2: on it. I remember thinking this when we were shooting
Speaker 2: the last few episodes of Shadow hunters. Our characters had
Speaker 2: habits and even physical habits and ways of moving in
Speaker 2: a space with each other that were entirely separate from
Speaker 2: the way that Domini exist in space together, or Alberto
Speaker 2: and I exist in space together, and we would just
Speaker 2: fall into these patterns, and you know, you're in the
Speaker 2: middle of a scene and you move around a certain
Speaker 2: set piece and grab hands and do things or look
Speaker 2: at each other, and it's kind of this. The characters
Speaker 2: have a history that they know, and it's in It's
Speaker 2: not only emotional, but it's physical because you live in
Speaker 2: these spaces and you spend hours and hours and hours
Speaker 2: of your time and your day doing this. You know,
Speaker 2: if you think about it, what is an hour that
Speaker 2: you watch on television? Took us an entire week if
Speaker 2: not more, to shoot of fifteen to seventeen hour days
Speaker 2: doing this, living this story over and over again. So
Speaker 2: it somehow exists within you but entirely separate. Maybe that
Speaker 2: makes me a bit of associopath. I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, no, it makes you an extremely professional professional. I'm
Speaker 1: going to go with that.
Speaker 2: There I go, I'll take you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's it's such an incredibly special show. I mean,
Speaker 1: we see it in the fandom. When the show wasn't renewed,
Speaker 1: we know that they were petitioning and there were fundraisers,
Speaker 1: and I think there was even a billboard in Times
Speaker 1: Square and it was trending every other day. And this
Speaker 1: show means so much to so many people. So I
Speaker 1: know that if you have the opportunity to come back
Speaker 1: and do another season or a special mini series off
Speaker 1: of the show, I know you would do it. We've
Speaker 1: talked about that many times. But what would you want
Speaker 1: to see for your character next?
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, well, first of all, and that experience for
Speaker 2: us was one of the wildest of my life. And
Speaker 2: just seeing the fandom come and support the show and
Speaker 2: the story and each other with this mass of doing
Speaker 2: everything they possibly could, this enthusiasm, the support, and this
Speaker 2: love and passion for the show. There were billboards all
Speaker 2: over the world, from Korea to London, to Italy to
Speaker 2: Germany to the US. There were blimps flying over with
Speaker 2: planes with messages flying over Los Angeles. There were you know,
Speaker 2: they raised thousands and thousands of dollars for the Trevor
Speaker 2: Project in the name of our show and saving it,
Speaker 2: and just the amount of good that the fandom does,
Speaker 2: even in these moments, blows my mind every single day.
Speaker 2: And they truly there's a reason I call them angels
Speaker 2: because they are. But you know, for Clary, the series
Speaker 2: ended in a very interesting way that was very open,
Speaker 2: which I loved. But you know, she'd lost all of
Speaker 2: her memories and just got the tiniest glimmer of recognition
Speaker 2: of Jase at the end, and I thought that was
Speaker 2: so beautiful because it's it's making a statement that you know,
Speaker 2: even through the punishment that she was given by the angels,
Speaker 2: and through any kind of spite or hatred they have
Speaker 2: for her and what she'd done or anything that exists
Speaker 2: in that world, love and that connection is stronger than
Speaker 2: any of it, and reconnected them and brought them back together.
Speaker 2: But we don't really know. So I would love to
Speaker 2: see Clarie retraining. I would love to see her moving
Speaker 2: forward in kind of this new life. You know, before
Speaker 2: we had that ending, before we had to end the
Speaker 2: show so quickly, Clariy had just come out of our
Speaker 2: original ending for season three. She had just come out
Speaker 2: of being, for lack of a better word, possessed by
Speaker 2: her demonic brother, and she'd killed people and done all
Speaker 2: of these really evil things. After having spent two years
Speaker 2: earning the respect of this entire world, she had lost
Speaker 2: it and trashed it and become a villain. And the
Speaker 2: only other person who could understand that was Jase because
Speaker 2: he'd been through something similar. So this next scene and
Speaker 2: was going to be a really interesting way of her
Speaker 2: fighting her guilt and finding a way to make it
Speaker 2: right and going almost where previously she'd been. No, we're
Speaker 2: going to break all the rules and we're going to
Speaker 2: do things a new way, and love matters and all
Speaker 2: these things are important to going Nope, I'm going to
Speaker 2: be a soldier. I'm going to be straight laced. I'm
Speaker 2: going to do my job and I don't matter, but
Speaker 2: my job does. And that would have been an interesting
Speaker 2: journey as well. But you know, all things happen for
Speaker 2: a reason and in the way that they should. And
Speaker 2: I was with the situation we had. I was really
Speaker 2: grateful for the ending we got to give the show.
Speaker 1: You said something a quote. I want to read this
Speaker 1: to you. Let's see if you remember it, because I
Speaker 1: really really really loved this quote. And when this show wrapped,
Speaker 1: this is what you said. I still feel a bit
Speaker 1: like I've lost a limb, and it's still a bit
Speaker 1: strange that it's not there anymore, that I'm not going back,
Speaker 1: and I'm still processing that, but it's something that I'll
Speaker 1: carry with me forever and something that I'll always love.
Speaker 1: What were you feeling in that moment?
Speaker 2: I know exactly what that was in reaction to. So
Speaker 2: our last day of shooting. The series ends with this
Speaker 2: big wedding, and so our last day of shooting, everyone
Speaker 2: was on set, even folks like Isaiah Mustafa, who was
Speaker 2: off doing it to another part of Toronto, came to
Speaker 2: just hang out after he wrapped, and we finished at
Speaker 2: like three in the morning, and everyone was there and
Speaker 2: dressed up, and we had this big party and we
Speaker 2: had our wrap party on our stages right there in
Speaker 2: the middle of the We were already set up for
Speaker 2: a wedding. We might as well just keep the party going.
Speaker 2: So people brought champagne and our catering, stayed late and
Speaker 2: made snacks, and we just spent all night on these
Speaker 2: stages in what had become our home for the better
Speaker 2: part of four years, with these people that had become
Speaker 2: our family, hanging out, dancing, listening to music, celebrating, running
Speaker 2: around being silly, sitting in spaces and you know, having
Speaker 2: a drink in all of our characters bedrooms and apartments
Speaker 2: and kind of giving our home the send off it needed.
Speaker 2: But I remember, right before we all went to go change,
Speaker 2: right after they'd called wrap and we'd done the big
Speaker 2: champagne toast and we're going to go get ready for
Speaker 2: the party. I was still in costume, still in everything,
Speaker 2: and most other people had left the stage, and I
Speaker 2: watched the edge of the set and something stopped me,
Speaker 2: like a wall, because I realized in that moment, that's
Speaker 2: the last time I was going to be stepping off
Speaker 2: the stage as Clary. And I hadn't thought about that,
Speaker 2: and I hadn't thought about what that would feel like.
Speaker 2: And you know, that show was nineteen to twenty three
Speaker 2: for me, and that show, I'd grown up. I'd become
Speaker 2: an adult. I'd gone from a teenager to a you know,
Speaker 2: a grown woman. And I didn't know what it was
Speaker 2: like to be an adult without Clary in my life.
Speaker 2: And I didn't know what it was like to go
Speaker 2: about my life without show and without her. And I'd
Speaker 2: spent a lot of time thinking about that and processing that,
Speaker 2: and then I realized that it never really will leave
Speaker 2: me because everything about that show and that fandom and
Speaker 2: the journey that I went on and everything that we
Speaker 2: learned together is so a part of who I am
Speaker 2: that that will never change. That family will never change,
Speaker 2: That part of me will always be there. And that's
Speaker 2: something that's so special about certain characters. It happened with Clary,
Speaker 2: it happened with me as well on Arrow. Those people
Speaker 2: become a part of you, and you learn from these
Speaker 2: characters and you grow with them, and you are so
Speaker 2: a part of their journey and they're a part of yours,
Speaker 2: and they leave a little peace with you. You leave a
Speaker 2: little piece of yourself in them that lives in the
Speaker 2: play or the film or the movie forever, and they
Speaker 2: leave a little bit with you. It'll always stick in
Speaker 2: the back of your head, because once you live in
Speaker 2: somebody's head for long enough, it never goes away.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And like you said, you grew up doing
Speaker 1: the show. It's a piece of who you are, and
Speaker 1: it's not physically here right now in the sense that
Speaker 1: it's your day to day job anymore, but it will
Speaker 1: live on forever. So who is Kat McNamara without Shot Hunters?
Speaker 2: She's someone who's very grateful to have continued working and
Speaker 2: continued to hopefully grow, as you know, as an artist
Speaker 2: and a human and an actor and a storyteller. And that's,
Speaker 2: you know, that's ultimately what I want to do with
Speaker 2: my life is just tell stories and be a part
Speaker 2: of things, whether I'm in front of the camera, on stage,
Speaker 2: behind the camera, on a microphone, whatever it is. I
Speaker 2: just want to continue that magic, because there's something to that,
Speaker 2: and there's something to the growth that brings it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's a medicine of its own, this this art of
Speaker 2: storytelling that we as humans have.
Speaker 1: I'm now remembering another thing you told me in conversation.
Speaker 1: All these little golden nuggets are coming back to me.
Speaker 1: And what just struck me listening and watching you is
Speaker 1: how full of joy you are. You just exude joy.
Speaker 1: And I remember I was sharing a story with your
Speaker 1: personal story, and you said that there's something very vulnerable
Speaker 1: about being joyous, that there's vulnerability in joy. Do you
Speaker 1: remember that?
Speaker 2: I do. I do because it was something that I
Speaker 2: had listened to or heard or read somewhere and I
Speaker 2: was at the start of a new year. I think
Speaker 2: it was the beginning of like twenty nineteen or something
Speaker 2: about being vulnerable to joy, and it struck me in
Speaker 2: such a way. You have to be open to letting
Speaker 2: joy into your life and letting things come your way,
Speaker 2: and whether that's love or work or just happiness in general,
Speaker 2: if you're open to that being a part of your life,
Speaker 2: it will come to you. It will happen. You might,
Speaker 2: you know, get hurt along the way, you might learn
Speaker 2: a lesson, you might other things might happen because you're
Speaker 2: open to receiving things and to letting things affect you.
Speaker 2: But if you're closed off, you're not going to learn
Speaker 2: anything or grow or receive anything from the world. And
Speaker 2: that's kind of an awful way to live in my opinion.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And I
Speaker 1: think that what fascinates me about somebody like you is
Speaker 1: you live this very public life social socially right and
Speaker 1: the digital space, so to speak. Yes, you share things
Speaker 1: that are just for you and you keep things for
Speaker 1: just for yourself, I should say, but you're very active
Speaker 1: on social media. I mean, four point one plus million
Speaker 1: followers on Instagram, and add up the Twitter and the
Speaker 1: Facebook and all the things that you're on and it's
Speaker 1: a big part of what you do as an artist, right,
Speaker 1: You promote your work, you engage with your amazing community
Speaker 1: of fans. I imagine for someone like you, it's generally
Speaker 1: very positive and a joyful space, as we were just
Speaker 1: talking about. But I also imagine it must be important
Speaker 1: to keep a separation between the digital social media side
Speaker 1: of what you do and your real human life.
Speaker 2: Is that right in a sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I mean I try and generate a presence on
Speaker 2: social media that is I don't know, there's no better
Speaker 2: word for it other than authentic, yeah, and organic and
Speaker 2: just real, because I don't think there's any Yes, there
Speaker 2: are certain things I do that are professional, and certain
Speaker 2: things that I do that are you know, promotional things,
Speaker 2: and this, that and the other, but ultimately it's about
Speaker 2: just being a person. But I think that separation you're
Speaker 2: talking about is really important for everyone to remember, because
Speaker 2: I mean, I've had a really positive experience with social media.
Speaker 2: I think it's a wonderful thing if you have a
Speaker 2: healthy perspective on it. You know, I use it to
Speaker 2: keep in touch with my family and friends. I use
Speaker 2: it to people that I'm far away from my family,
Speaker 2: I'm far away from my friends most of the time,
Speaker 2: and getting to just see a little piece of their
Speaker 2: life and keep in touch that way, even if it's
Speaker 2: two seconds, I can see news that somebody has and go,
Speaker 2: oh my god, that's so exciting, or they look so
Speaker 2: beautiful today, or what a great day they're having, or
Speaker 2: you know it just or just send them a littlege
Speaker 2: of how I miss you. You know. It's those little
Speaker 2: things and the ease of doing that that I'm so
Speaker 2: grateful for. But alternatively, we all have to remember that
Speaker 2: it's just ones and zeros. It literally doesn't physically exist,
Speaker 2: and in the grand scheme of things, the connections that
Speaker 2: you build through it are what matters. And the friendships
Speaker 2: that you make through it, and the real connections that
Speaker 2: you make, that's what matters. Not the number of double
Speaker 2: taps you get on a photo, not you know, the
Speaker 2: filter you put on it, or whether somebody has a
Speaker 2: photo or this and all of that, all of those
Speaker 2: things that people worry about, all of the numbers and things.
Speaker 2: It's there's a part of it that matters for you know,
Speaker 2: our job. But in the grand scheme of things, what's
Speaker 2: important to the people, not the photos, not the digital
Speaker 2: and if you can remember that and keep a grasp
Speaker 2: on that and appreciate it for what it is, but
Speaker 2: also understand it for what it is. That's that's my
Speaker 2: hope for the future of humans and social media. I guess.
Speaker 1: It's a good hope. It's a really good hope. And
Speaker 1: I think that you are someone who genuinely wants the
Speaker 1: very best for people. I can honestly say I don't
Speaker 1: sense any sort of jealous bones in your body. I
Speaker 1: don't think you're somebody who lives by comparison, and I
Speaker 1: think you're generally happy for people's successes, and I think
Speaker 1: that social media can tear all of that away from you.
Speaker 1: It can make you jealous, It can make you comparing
Speaker 1: yourself to other people. It can make you have anxiety
Speaker 1: and feel depressed if you're not performing like someone is
Speaker 1: or living their life. And you use it in such
Speaker 1: a healthy way, which is something I very much admire,
Speaker 1: and that's how I look at it as well. And
Speaker 1: I think that in life, if you're somebody who wants
Speaker 1: the very best for other people, even if it's something
Speaker 1: you want and you're not quite there yet with but
Speaker 1: you see someone in how happy it makes them how
Speaker 1: hard hopefully they worked for it. I think that only
Speaker 1: attracts good.
Speaker 2: Things to you one hundred percent. I'm such a firm
Speaker 2: believer in the energy and the intentions that you put
Speaker 2: out into the world toward other people and other situations
Speaker 2: are what you receive back. You know. It's it's the
Speaker 2: golden rule. It goes back, you know, from millennia in
Speaker 2: human history and in every kind of moral code that
Speaker 2: we've created as human beings. It's that or that exists
Speaker 2: among different communities. There's always something akin to that. And
Speaker 2: I think it's true. You know, it's all everything's cyclical,
Speaker 2: everything's reciprocal, and it's if you're putting good things out
Speaker 2: in the world and wishing the best for other people,
Speaker 2: there's it will come back to you in one way
Speaker 2: or another. Kindness always begets kindness, Positivity always begets positivity.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I guess that's how I was
Speaker 2: raised as well. It's it's one of those things where, Okay,
Speaker 2: so somebody else is doing something great, that thing wasn't
Speaker 2: meant to be yours. So there's something else out there
Speaker 2: that wouldn't have been right for whatever reason. You may
Speaker 2: never understand it. You may never know what that is
Speaker 2: or why, and it might be so frustrating, but that's okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: because just be open to whatever is coming your way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one hundred percent. And connecting this back to our
Speaker 1: conversation about Joy, I always live by the quote that
Speaker 1: comparison is truly the thief to joy.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, oh yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 1: It just is. I live by it. I heard it
Speaker 1: once and I've never forgotten it. I love it so much. Kat,
Speaker 1: you clearly are someone who is so motivated and passionate
Speaker 1: in all areas of life. What keeps your fire burning?
Speaker 2: I spend time and energy doing things that I love
Speaker 2: and that matter to me, and whether that's you know,
Speaker 2: baking cookies for a friend who's having a hard day,
Speaker 2: or going to work and doing a job that I love,
Speaker 2: or going to the gym even on days where I'm exhausted,
Speaker 2: but knowing that I have to train for X y
Speaker 2: Z job coming up, so that I can do the
Speaker 2: thing that I tell, the story that I want to tell,
Speaker 2: and be the person that I'm trying to become to
Speaker 2: play this character and serve the story. And it's no
Speaker 2: matter what it is, it's a choice and I always
Speaker 2: try and find that that positive side of things and
Speaker 2: try and find something to be a motivator, because otherwise
Speaker 2: life is no fun. You're not having fun, You're not
Speaker 2: doing something right. That's what my grandfather always says. And
Speaker 2: sometimes you have to choose to have fun.
Speaker 1: Oh your grandfather, wise man, wise, wise man.
Speaker 2: By the way, my grandparents and my mother say hello.
Speaker 2: They adore you, and they send all their love to
Speaker 2: you and gio. So I was tasked with that message
Speaker 2: and I have passed it on.
Speaker 1: Oh it's all the fam. We say hello and we
Speaker 1: send our love right back. That's amazing. Everybody listening right now,
Speaker 1: you know, talked about shadow Hunters and if you weren't
Speaker 1: you able to watch Kat in the show, or you
Speaker 1: didn't you know, you weren't watching it in real time.
Speaker 1: Guess what, She's on another show right now and you
Speaker 1: can watch her in all her glory on the CW
Speaker 1: playing Abby Walker and Walker Independence from the world of
Speaker 1: sci Fi and shadow Hunters to other worlds in between
Speaker 1: and now the Great Western World. It is such a
Speaker 1: fun show. You are again another total badass in the show.
Speaker 1: For everybody listening, tell them about the show and what
Speaker 1: excites you the most about being a part of it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's great. It's so lovely to be back in
Speaker 2: the CW family. You know, starting with the Shadow Hunters
Speaker 2: kind of led me to Arrow, which I was able
Speaker 2: to do for a couple of seasons. It was wonderful.
Speaker 2: And then Walker Independence came up, and once again it's
Speaker 2: you know, it's it exists in the Walker Texas Ranger universe.
Speaker 2: But Jared Pataluki is doing a spin off of that
Speaker 2: show now or a reboot rather of that show now
Speaker 2: called Walker, in which he plays Cordel Walker, the next
Speaker 2: generation of that And they said, hey, what if we
Speaker 2: made the origin story of the Walkers and how they
Speaker 2: got to Texas and how that legacy was built from
Speaker 2: the beginning. And I am fortunate enough to be playing
Speaker 2: Jared's great great great great grandmother, playing the first Walker
Speaker 2: in Texas and telling that history and telling that story
Speaker 2: of how they got to this part of Texas and
Speaker 2: how they became who they were and these sort of
Speaker 2: guardians of justice for the West. But you know, justice
Speaker 2: in eighteen seventy whatever it is, is very different than
Speaker 2: justice in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 1: And you ride horses, you kick ass.
Speaker 2: I try you do.
Speaker 1: You kick some ass. It is such a fun ride.
Speaker 1: If you love Westerns, it's a show for you. If
Speaker 1: you're not sure, I feel like Westerns. It's a great introduction,
Speaker 1: I think, to the world that so many people love,
Speaker 1: in the genre that so many people love. How can
Speaker 1: people watch this?
Speaker 2: We're airing on the CW right now. We are on
Speaker 2: Thursday nights at nine, and if you want to catch
Speaker 2: up on past episodes, they're on the CW website or
Speaker 2: they're app I believe. But what's really great about, you know, Westerns,
Speaker 2: is there's such nostalgia to them and that you know, yes,
Speaker 2: there's they're a very specific genre and certain people just
Speaker 2: don't enjoy them, and that's fine. But something about walk
Speaker 2: or dependence. We're sort of reinventing the Western. It's it's
Speaker 2: a very accessible Western. We've got a lot of modern
Speaker 2: music and our storylines, we've pushed the boundaries as much
Speaker 2: as we possibly can. But also there are a lot
Speaker 2: of perspectives to the West and a lot of stories
Speaker 2: that were never told or rarely get told because they're
Speaker 2: often sidelined by, you know, the classic story structure that
Speaker 2: has existed in this genre for so long. And what
Speaker 2: our writers are attempting to do is sort of turn
Speaker 2: that on its head and take everything you know about
Speaker 2: Westerns and make you question it and throw something new
Speaker 2: in there and show and tell these stories that haven't
Speaker 2: had a voice yet. And that's something that is so
Speaker 2: such an honor to be a part of.
Speaker 1: And it's shot beautifully, I swear. There's all these close
Speaker 1: up shots of you, these like dramatic, dramatic close ups
Speaker 1: where you're doing these like pending looks and looking into
Speaker 1: the distance and questioning and I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: Kat is serving me face right now.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, thank you. That's that was a choice
Speaker 2: made by our Larry Tang is a brilliant director and
Speaker 2: he's one of our executive producers. But he did the
Speaker 2: first three episodes and he sort of set us up
Speaker 2: with the style and these they're called anamorphic lenses, so
Speaker 2: they're really wide lenses. They're more like a movie than
Speaker 2: a television show. And so we get these, you know,
Speaker 2: sweeping shots, and we're really able to capture this beauty
Speaker 2: and the character that is the West, and you know,
Speaker 2: the we shoot it in New Mexico, but the Texas
Speaker 2: quote unquote in the eighteen seventies, and it's it's just stunning,
Speaker 2: and every shot is like a painting, and I just
Speaker 2: marvel at our crew is just a gift. There's such
Speaker 2: wonderful people to go to work with every day, and
Speaker 2: that's you know, and you're in the dust and the wind,
Speaker 2: and you're crying and covered in blood and shooting things
Speaker 2: and riding horses and a corset for seventeen hours. You're
Speaker 2: so grateful to be surrounded by people that are lovely
Speaker 2: and you enjoy and are amazing not only artists but
Speaker 2: human beings.
Speaker 1: Well, everybody on screen and off screen is fabulous. Everybody
Speaker 1: watched the show. It is so good. And Kat, as
Speaker 1: we come to a close, what is something you can
Speaker 1: tell me about that you're working on for yourself?
Speaker 2: You know, it's something that I I realized during the
Speaker 2: pandemic and have been working on and I'm still learning
Speaker 2: to do. But you know, I'm as we've spoken about extensively,
Speaker 2: I'm always positive and always looking for the optimism in situations,
Speaker 2: always looking for that silver lanning. But something I realized,
Speaker 2: you know, I used to kind of used to bother
Speaker 2: me when it wasn't a good day or when you know,
Speaker 2: something was happening and I couldn't quite find that silver
Speaker 2: lining or I couldn't quite figure it out. And then
Speaker 2: I realized it was actually during the pandemic, because the
Speaker 2: first few months of the pandemic, I was on my own.
Speaker 2: It was me and Bob, the Bob the quarantine boyfriend,
Speaker 2: you know, my boxing dummy, just hanging out in my house.
Speaker 2: And there are some days where you're just going, you
Speaker 2: know what, this sucks. The world is so uncertain, I'm alone,
Speaker 2: what is happening, and realizing that it's a choice. And
Speaker 2: you know, even if everything's going wrong, or you just
Speaker 2: wake up on the wrong side of the bed or
Speaker 2: whatever it is, you can still have a good day.
Speaker 2: It's just choosing to find those little things it's going
Speaker 2: you know what, I'm gonna make a batch of cookies,
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna watch that old Disney film that always
Speaker 2: makes me smile, or I'm gonna go for a run,
Speaker 2: or I'm gonna call my friend, or I'm gonna do
Speaker 2: something that makes the day just a little bit better.
Speaker 2: And realizing that yeah, it's okay. Some days are not great.
Speaker 2: Some days are just things are going to happen, but
Speaker 2: it's the choosing to almost circumvent that and reinvent it
Speaker 2: and reframe it for yourself. That is that juxtaposition. You
Speaker 2: take that moment, you feel that emotion, you acknowledge and
Speaker 2: go all right, yeah, this sucks and this isn't isn't
Speaker 2: what I want to be happening. But you know what,
Speaker 2: that's okay, and it's okay if that happened, and we're
Speaker 2: going to move on from it and make it better.
Speaker 2: And it's that, you know, you take your moment and
Speaker 2: feel it and then make a positive choice and just
Speaker 2: try even the tiniest bit to just make it a
Speaker 2: little bit better. And you know, that's it's that balance
Speaker 2: that I think I'm working on and I think is
Speaker 2: something that I constantly try and remember.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's really cool you share that, because
Speaker 1: when people look at you and talk about you, it
Speaker 1: is often she's so positive, she's full of so much joy,
Speaker 1: which is all true. You are. But what we're saying
Speaker 1: right now is you too do have bad days, and
Speaker 1: oh yeah, it's okay to not always be okay right
Speaker 1: one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And that's that's part of being human, and that's honestly,
Speaker 2: that's why I love being an actor because we live
Speaker 2: in a world where you know, everything is the perfect
Speaker 2: filter and the perfect picture, and you know, we try
Speaker 2: and present all of these things to the world, but
Speaker 2: we forget that sometimes the most beautiful parts of being
Speaker 2: human are those moments of vulnerability and those moments of
Speaker 2: you know, brokenness that I always try and find it
Speaker 2: in characters and always try and play it on screen.
Speaker 2: But then it's it's the rising from the ashes, you know,
Speaker 2: which I've been fortunate that a lot of my characters
Speaker 2: have been able to do, and I have done at
Speaker 2: times myself in life. But it's the choice to do. So,
Speaker 2: you know, you can choose to live in whatever you're
Speaker 2: feeling and you need to feel it, and that's fine
Speaker 2: and it's human and it's wonderful. But then learn from it,
Speaker 2: grow from it, make a positive choice, and find the
Speaker 2: happy around it. Find that that silver lining, that ray
Speaker 2: of sunshine, and you'll feel so much stronger for it.
Speaker 1: On the other side, well, Kat, in our friendship, I
Speaker 1: have learned so much from you, and it's really important
Speaker 1: for me as I launched a show, I want my
Speaker 1: first few guests to be people i'm genuinely close to.
Speaker 1: Because I know you in such an intimate and personal way,
Speaker 1: and I know you share who you are with everybody,
Speaker 1: but I wanted them to know a little bit more
Speaker 1: about the real cat, a little bit of a different
Speaker 1: side to the real cat, which you know, is why
Speaker 1: we talked about a lot of the things we did
Speaker 1: in the second half of this interview, because knowing the
Speaker 1: real cat is like knowing one of the most incredible
Speaker 1: human beings in the world, and I kind of love
Speaker 1: you more.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Tommy. I feel the same way about you.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: It's funny we when we first met and hung out
Speaker 2: and started chatting instantly, I felt as though we've been
Speaker 2: friends for a lifetime or in another life or something,
Speaker 2: which I think why we started talking about the initially.
Speaker 2: But it's I'm eternally grateful for friends like you who
Speaker 2: are so lovely and loving and genuine, and that's you
Speaker 2: are a gift, my friend. So this has been an
Speaker 2: absolute honor. Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1: I've never said this before. Is hosted by me Tommy Diderio.
Speaker 1: This podcast is produced and edited by Mike Coscarelli, and
Speaker 1: executive producers are Andrew Piglici and Katrino norvel at iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: I've Never said this before is part of the Elvis
Speaker 1: Durant podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts for more, rate, review
Speaker 1: and subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Dedario.