Speaker 1: To decide which thing is more more bearable, more difficult, whatever,
Speaker 1: and you have to just you know, make that decision.
Speaker 2: And there's always gonna be something.
Speaker 1: But that's I mean, that's also every relationship.
Speaker 2: There's always gonna be something about.
Speaker 1: Like I judge you, yeah, you judge my white husband,
Speaker 1: I judge you, yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, There's always gonna be something. You know what. This
Speaker 2: is a safe space to talk about relationships, love and sex. Now,
Speaker 2: let me tell you something messy. I have a messy
Speaker 2: story for you, which is that I tried trimex. Okay,
Speaker 2: if you don't know what that is, Uh, it's basically
Speaker 2: a prescription medication used to treat a rectile disfunction. And
Speaker 2: it is you know, like like there's viagra and all
Speaker 2: those things that you kind of take by pill, but
Speaker 2: Trimex is an injection. It's an injection into the penis,
Speaker 2: directly into the penis. Now, I don't have ed, but
Speaker 2: sometimes I participate in activities, one of which is with
Speaker 2: a friend let's call her Molly. And so if we'll
Speaker 2: call her Mo for sut so, like, if me and
Speaker 2: Mo be hanging out a little bit, it's possible that
Speaker 2: my penis who we shall name Bertha what Okay, No,
Speaker 2: we're gonna name her Bertha. Stick with it. That's what
Speaker 2: I came about, Bertha. If Bertha's not working, we because
Speaker 2: of mo. We we need we need a little VIAGRAA
Speaker 2: we need little something something to support because you know,
Speaker 2: we're still trying to do things anyway. So here's a habit.
Speaker 2: I went out, went out to a party, had a
Speaker 2: great time, ran into a friend, a friend who you
Speaker 2: know sometimes we uh we play together. He had like
Speaker 2: two friends and he was about to leave and they're
Speaker 2: about to go back to his place, have a little
Speaker 2: a little place session, little hangout, a little dept fund.
Speaker 2: They were like, you want to come? I was like, yeah, right,
Speaker 2: let's go. Let's let's do it right. So I show
Speaker 2: up or you know, it's always a good time with
Speaker 2: this particular friend and uh he you know, and getting
Speaker 2: ready for you know, all the things are about to happen.
Speaker 2: Offered trimex. So I've heard a trimex. Obviously, if you
Speaker 2: know you're gay. In the sex party spaces, you gonna
Speaker 2: hear about trimex at some point, because you know, people
Speaker 2: want to make they want to last, they want to fuck.
Speaker 2: But the only times that I've seen a dick that
Speaker 2: has used a tri mix. It concerned me because the
Speaker 2: dicks looked, how do I say this a little too marish?
Speaker 2: What I mean by that, it's like very Gray's anatomy.
Speaker 2: It looks like something that doctor Christina Yang should be
Speaker 2: looking at, not me, you know what I'm saying. And
Speaker 2: so like the first time I saw I remember I
Speaker 2: went to this. I was at this little group orgy
Speaker 2: situation and the host walked in and his dick was
Speaker 2: hard as marble and we were commenting on it, and
Speaker 2: he was like, oh, yes, this Trimex and oh work,
Speaker 2: and I was like, what's that? And then when he
Speaker 2: was like explaining, it's, you know, the thing that you
Speaker 2: inject into your dick and then it makes it hard,
Speaker 2: and people were asking questions about it. And as the
Speaker 2: room was asking questions, I was just staring at his
Speaker 2: dick because it looked like a snake had swallowed its
Speaker 2: prey and it was like still digesting. Do you know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying? Do you have the visual? You have
Speaker 2: the visual? The second time I saw a dick with Trimex,
Speaker 2: I was in London. This was last year, and same thing,
Speaker 2: Like the guy was like, oh, do you need because
Speaker 2: that was different because I went over to he up
Speaker 2: with a couple and one of the couple members did
Speaker 2: not look like his photos and so I was just like,
Speaker 2: stand of that, and my dick was not getting hard,
Speaker 2: and he understood. So he was like, do I want trimex?
Speaker 2: And I was looking at his dick hard as a brick,
Speaker 2: but also looking a little Gray's anatomy light. You know
Speaker 2: what I'm saying, just like you need to get that
Speaker 2: checked out. And I say, sir, no, no, sir no, no, No,
Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm good. I'm good. So I've always been
Speaker 2: like I I'm not gonna do that. I'm gonna just
Speaker 2: stick to to my my my pills. Also, I don't
Speaker 2: I haven't let those folks fuck me because I always
Speaker 2: felt like it was gonna it's gonna it was gonna
Speaker 2: open my hole in like a oh my god, what
Speaker 2: is this show? But I have to say if it's
Speaker 2: gonna open my whole in like a geometrically advanced way,
Speaker 2: like you know, I got like a little circle and
Speaker 2: it just looked like it's about to turn into a hexagon.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. An octagon. You know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying. You know what I'm saying. It's just like
Speaker 2: it's just like that is I don't anyways, So I've
Speaker 2: been against it. But here I am at this gathering,
Speaker 2: this you know, recent gathering with my friend and his
Speaker 2: two friends and you know mo is well, I've had
Speaker 2: some MO. My friend has had some MO as well.
Speaker 2: Second friend, you know, his dick wasn't working, and so
Speaker 2: they were like, Okay, we're gonna take this tri mix
Speaker 2: and they were like, do you want? I was like, no,
Speaker 2: but I do want to see what how y'all do
Speaker 2: it because I'm curious. So I do want to watch
Speaker 2: as you administer said try mix, but no, I'm not
Speaker 2: going to take it. And the third friend was also
Speaker 2: like no, no, we we we we want to watch.
Speaker 2: So it was actually really cute and really wholesome. Here
Speaker 2: we are all like naked in the kitchen. My friend
Speaker 2: pulls out the vials and the needles, and my friend
Speaker 2: is one of those friends that is very very like
Speaker 2: health conscious, does everything above boards, all fresh needles, all
Speaker 2: everything's cleaned down, alcohol swaps, all the things. Like it's like,
Speaker 2: if we're gonna do something, we're gonna do it properly.
Speaker 2: So we're sitting there and lo and behold. They take
Speaker 2: a little vial, they put the little needle in, get
Speaker 2: the try and mix. They pull out, and then baby,
Speaker 2: I watch them prick themselves with that needle right into
Speaker 2: their dick. They said, you have to make sure it
Speaker 2: gets through. I can't remember the scradle we have to get.
Speaker 2: You have to do it in a way that gets
Speaker 2: through the chamber. Was the the US. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Moe was really working my brain out at that point.
Speaker 2: It was about to work my brain out that point.
Speaker 2: But so they said like, uh, like it has to
Speaker 2: give it the chamber or something like that. So it's like,
Speaker 2: oh okay, So they put it me and the third
Speaker 2: firm were like, oh, listen, a needle is already for
Speaker 2: my needle. Girls who are or who are squeamish around
Speaker 2: the needles, needles are already gonna be a squeamish. You know.
Speaker 2: You put the needle in my arm, that's already gonna
Speaker 2: be a squeamish. You said, put the needle in the dick.
Speaker 2: I guess this was better though, because I always imagine
Speaker 2: I don't know why I imagine this but I always
Speaker 2: imagine that it was administered like through the head, which
Speaker 2: sounds terrible because you imagine a needle. Oh, I don't imagine.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I'm sorry, take it back, I take it back.
Speaker 2: Don't imagine it. But it's the side, the fleshy part.
Speaker 2: So it was a little less scary. So they they
Speaker 2: pricked it and baby low and behold. In a matter
Speaker 2: of seconds, a matter of seconds, that dick, them dicks
Speaker 2: were up awake at attention. It was like a jack
Speaker 2: in the box. This dick is hard, honey. And so
Speaker 2: then so now we got these two hard ass dicks
Speaker 2: and they look at us and they go, you sure
Speaker 2: you don't want it? It was like, nah, now we go.
Speaker 2: We go, and they're like, well you'll be you know,
Speaker 2: the beneficiaries of the trimex and baby, yes, I was benefiting.
Speaker 2: I was certainly benefiting. But then you know, Mo really started,
Speaker 2: you know, to to to take a hole. And when
Speaker 2: Mo takes a hole, you just be feeling. If you haven't,
Speaker 2: if you've not danced with Molly before, she will have
Speaker 2: you feeling uh, euphoric and sexy and like touching feels
Speaker 2: beautiful and skin feels good and sex is just a
Speaker 2: different level. But some of the side effects of MO
Speaker 2: can be that your dick won't work. So I had
Speaker 2: already taken my little dick pill because I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not doing the injection. I'm gonna take mod dick
Speaker 2: pill and this you know it'll be it'll be fine.
Speaker 2: And most of the time that happens, but there are
Speaker 2: occasions where I can still take a dick pill and
Speaker 2: that MO is just too strong. Uh, And so I
Speaker 2: can have all the feelings, but you know, Bertha is asleep.
Speaker 2: She ain't waken up. So we were doing things and
Speaker 2: I was having fun, and then I was like, I
Speaker 2: really want to top, so I said, So I got
Speaker 2: off and I said to my friend, come on, let
Speaker 2: me let's let's let's do this tri mix. Why not?
Speaker 2: Here we are now, I think that was MO talking like.
Speaker 2: I don't think that Brandon in my like sober state
Speaker 2: would have said let's do it. I think I would
Speaker 2: have been like, absolutely not. But Moe was feeling confident,
Speaker 2: and that's why you have to be careful. Okay, be careful.
Speaker 2: Because Moe was feeling confident, and so my frien was like, bet,
Speaker 2: let's do it. So we went to the kitchen, pulled
Speaker 2: out the vials, clean needles for the try mix. Be
Speaker 2: very clear this for the tri mix. Okay, I'm not
Speaker 2: I'm not a needle girl. The alcohol squad. Baby, he
Speaker 2: put that thing in. It was it was actually not
Speaker 2: as painful as I thought. I wasn't actually painful at all,
Speaker 2: like a little pitch. It's like a like that, you
Speaker 2: know what I'm saying, Like you know, there there are
Speaker 2: there are more painful things to experience than this little prick.
Speaker 2: And so he put it in and then baby, a
Speaker 2: few seconds later, Bertha was. I mean, I don't know
Speaker 2: if I've ever experienced Bertha. She dangerous, is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Like like you could really knock an eye out with
Speaker 2: how hard like I was. I've never felt it was.
Speaker 2: It was like like it was like the like if
Speaker 2: you slapped your phone down. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: It was hard like that. It was. It was quite incredible.
Speaker 2: And I used her. I used her every which way
Speaker 2: I could. Okay, I ugh, ugh wow wait let me
Speaker 2: oh wow, I'm just remembering so so okay, So we
Speaker 2: had the fun. It's it's like, you know, fun of fun.
Speaker 2: The night is nighting. So the third friend has to
Speaker 2: leave early because he has something in the morning, because
Speaker 2: at this point it is like four in the morning
Speaker 2: or five in the morning. Then the second friend has
Speaker 2: to leave it. So it's just me and my original friend,
Speaker 2: and we have great chemistry. So we're like, well, let's
Speaker 2: just keep you know, we got these try mixed dicks.
Speaker 2: Let's just keep fucking using it. And then it was
Speaker 2: like the sun came up, and you know, one of
Speaker 2: those nights once the sun is up. Now some of y'all,
Speaker 2: I know, we'll keep going, y'all. I ran into a
Speaker 2: friend who is, like, I was saddening after his last
Speaker 2: week that lasted on until one pm the next day. Now,
Speaker 2: I said, no, wait a minute, I don't know that.
Speaker 2: God bless I can't do all that. But seven eight
Speaker 2: that's when I start to be That's when I start
Speaker 2: to question myself. You know, that's when when Moe decides
Speaker 2: to like fade a little bit. And now it's like
Speaker 2: seven point thirty. The sun is up, the birds are chirping,
Speaker 2: people are getting ready for church, and I a sinner
Speaker 2: and push loads out. It's just you know what I'm saying, Like,
Speaker 2: you get to the point where're like, okay, like I
Speaker 2: gotta go. I gotta go. So I'm getting ready to go,
Speaker 2: but I'm like, oh, my dick is still hard, like
Speaker 2: my dick like Bertha was just it was comical. I
Speaker 2: was putting my shorts on and I couldn't and y'all
Speaker 2: know my shorts, hoochie shorts. I couldn't fit her in
Speaker 2: there in a way that would be acceptable to step
Speaker 2: out into the sunlight and get my uber. So I
Speaker 2: was like, okay, so I've enagled it so that it
Speaker 2: would go down the thigh and I could cover it
Speaker 2: with my crossbody. But I was concerned because it was pulsing.
Speaker 2: At this point, it wasn't painful. My friend was like,
Speaker 2: is it painful. It's like, no, it's not painful, because
Speaker 2: you know, if you have an erection for too long,
Speaker 2: like four hours or more, then that's when we got
Speaker 2: to deal with some medical things. And I was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, the last thing I needed right now
Speaker 2: is to have to like have just danced with Molly,
Speaker 2: to have decided in the in the fog of her light,
Speaker 2: to have my dick injected with something to make it hard,
Speaker 2: and now it won't go down and now I gotta
Speaker 2: go to the doctor and I don't want that. That's
Speaker 2: not the expirit Lord, it's Sunday. God be with me.
Speaker 2: Don't let that be my story. I can't be my
Speaker 2: story right now. So my friend is like, it'll go down,
Speaker 2: it should go down. Here's already gone down. And I
Speaker 2: was like, why is not mine? Why is my not
Speaker 2: going down? But whatever I called the uber and then
Speaker 2: I remember, oh, bitch, you also took a dick pill.
Speaker 2: So not only do I have the TRIMX in me,
Speaker 2: I got the dick pill in me. I do not
Speaker 2: recommend this. I'm telling you right now. That's why I'm
Speaker 2: telling you my whole journeys, so you don't do the
Speaker 2: same thing. I was like, this thing might actually never
Speaker 2: go down. It's like, okay, it's fine, Brandon, Chill, chill, chill.
Speaker 2: We're gonna go home. We're gonna you know, I was
Speaker 2: gonna walk the dog because so I could sleep in
Speaker 2: because at this point in the morning. So I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna walk the dog, I'm gonna feed the dog.
Speaker 2: I'ma I'm then I'm gonna go to sleep and when
Speaker 2: I wake up, you know, Bertha will be we'll be
Speaker 2: asleep as well. Hopefully I have my time going At
Speaker 2: this point, she's been hard for two hours at this point,
Speaker 2: since since being administered, So I'm like, okay, cool, let
Speaker 2: me sit in an alarm. And I originally sitt an
Speaker 2: alarm for like two more hours, but I was like, no, no,
Speaker 2: not by that point. It might be too late, like
Speaker 2: because I don't because I also don't know what happens
Speaker 2: since the dick is too hard for too long and
Speaker 2: I didn't look it up. Maybe I should look it up.
Speaker 2: But I was like, I don't know what happens, Like
Speaker 2: if the dick is too hard, will it fall off?
Speaker 2: Will it explode because there's so much blood rushing to
Speaker 2: the head. Will it like gets so hard that it
Speaker 2: then gets soft but never gets hard again? Like what
Speaker 2: like what happens when it's hard for too long? I
Speaker 2: don't know, but you can imagine. At eight thirty in
Speaker 2: the morning, I have a lot of different scenarios playing
Speaker 2: in my head. I popped myself a little sleep edible
Speaker 2: and I was feeling the sleep coming and I was like, okay,
Speaker 2: I got someone was coming, and I was like, all right,
Speaker 2: I gotta got let me go to let me go
Speaker 2: to bed. I'm gonna have that alarm for like an
Speaker 2: hour and a half instead of two hours. If I
Speaker 2: wake up in an hour and a half and my
Speaker 2: dick is hard, I will deal with it then. But
Speaker 2: for now, let me go get some sleep. Because mo
Speaker 2: has warmed me out. Okay, Moe's warm me out. Birth
Speaker 2: has warm me out. It's time to go to sleep.
Speaker 2: But everything, do you know that if your penis on
Speaker 2: you understand that, like sometimes when things be touched on
Speaker 2: the head of your dick, it still makes you hard.
Speaker 2: So I had to like position myself because I sleep
Speaker 2: with the pillow between my thighs for my hips because
Speaker 2: I am of that age, and you know, I usually
Speaker 2: sleep in like my sweatpants, but I had to sleep
Speaker 2: in something looser so that my dick wasn't being constrained
Speaker 2: and didn't feel it was a whole thing. Listen, a
Speaker 2: whole thing. I'm too immature for this podcast. Anyways. I
Speaker 2: did wake up an hour and half later. My dick
Speaker 2: was soft, thankfully, so it went down. It was all good.
Speaker 2: Would I do it again? Listen with the right people
Speaker 2: who I trust, and without taking a dick pill perhaps
Speaker 2: especially dependent on the night like a night with with
Speaker 2: Mo feels like the right night, a Tuesday night. No,
Speaker 2: I'm good, you know what I'm saying. But at night
Speaker 2: when I'm like, there are other forces that are trying
Speaker 2: to cock block you birth of I'm gonna help you out.
Speaker 2: Yes I would, I would, but definitely it is something
Speaker 2: that you have to get prescribed so you know, do
Speaker 2: your research, talk to you the friends that you trust
Speaker 2: if you're going to try it. But it, but baby,
Speaker 2: I have in my life I've never been that hard.
Speaker 2: And I've been hard, I know I have, but that
Speaker 2: hard I felt. I felt invincible. I felt like a
Speaker 2: fucking superhero. I was like I could just keep fucking like.
Speaker 2: It was just like who wants Dick? Who wants Dick?
Speaker 2: You come sit. I barely have to do anything. I
Speaker 2: don't have to think about it, I don't have to
Speaker 2: do anything. Just it was low key.
Speaker 1: It was kind of freeing.
Speaker 2: It was a little you went freeing. It was like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't have to like do any of the mental aerobics.
Speaker 2: My Dick is just hard like go off, which we
Speaker 2: can get into the psychological stuff around that and like whatever,
Speaker 2: like you know, a Dick's hardness and the pressure around
Speaker 2: it being our but it was really kind of lovely
Speaker 2: to just kind of exist and be able to fuck
Speaker 2: without being concerned about the emotional factor of it. And
Speaker 2: I'm always concerned about the emotional factor. But I'm saying, like,
Speaker 2: not getting in my own head, which makes my dick
Speaker 2: so off because no matter what the fuck I was thinking,
Speaker 2: she was, Bertha was at attention and for that I'm grateful. Okay,
Speaker 2: Well that's my messy story. That was a big messy story.
Speaker 2: Your girl almost thought her dick was gonna fall off,
Speaker 2: but we survived. Amen. Amen, somebody, thank you. Gods answered
Speaker 2: my prayers. God listens. If you don't think God listens,
Speaker 2: not me, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, not me making this
Speaker 2: dick story about God listening, but uh she do. Okay,
Speaker 2: by the way, welcome to the show. This is tell
Speaker 2: me something messy. I'm your host friend and Kyle Goodman.
Speaker 2: Most people call me MESSI mom, but you can call
Speaker 2: me a Bertha Kyle Goodman. Okay, period is that a
Speaker 2: drag name? Birth of call Goodman. I'm here for I'm
Speaker 2: here for it. Let's get the show started. Baby. You
Speaker 2: know what that means. It's time for a guest. Now,
Speaker 2: while they get situated, we'll get our messy. Key key
Speaker 2: started with a hoe manifest sto repeat after me aloud
Speaker 2: or in your head. Grant me the serendity to unpack
Speaker 2: my shame, the courage to heal, the wisdom to know
Speaker 2: that sex is not about penetration, the audacity to advocate
Speaker 2: for my pleasure and boundaries, the strength to not call
Speaker 2: my ex that fuck boy, fuck girl, or fuck they,
Speaker 2: for it is better to masturbabe by myself in peace
Speaker 2: than to let someone play in my mother fucking face.
Speaker 2: Let the hommunity say ho lujah. I'm so excited to
Speaker 2: have Tracy Thomas on the show. Tracy is the creator
Speaker 2: and host of the critically acclaimed literally podcast The Stacks.
Speaker 2: She is a passionate champion of books and a deeply
Speaker 2: curious interviewer. Tracy is a monthly contributor on MPRS here
Speaker 2: and now a columnist for she reads dot com. The
Speaker 2: creator of the LAist Live literary series One for the Books,
Speaker 2: She also hosts and moderates literary events, book festivals, and
Speaker 2: author talks nationwide. Tracy's substack, Unstacked, is a place where
Speaker 2: she dives deeper into books, and also discusses topics outside
Speaker 2: the literary world like pop culture, sports, politics, and more.
Speaker 2: Please help me welcome Tracy Hi. Tracy Hi. It's been
Speaker 2: taking it's taken as several several months to get you
Speaker 2: here the start of the show.
Speaker 1: But we've hung out multiple times.
Speaker 2: We have, but you're in hi demand to get you
Speaker 2: into this now.
Speaker 1: No, that's not what happened. Let me tell you something messy. Actually,
Speaker 1: you canceled on me because you were going to what
Speaker 1: was it some of the women, the women and oh
Speaker 1: black men, They said, Vincent, can you just reach out
Speaker 1: to her and see if we could reschedule? And then
Speaker 1: you were gone because you were doing ours nova.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was in New York. Yeah, but there was
Speaker 2: a few. It was actually all blaming me.
Speaker 1: No, I'm gonna blame you.
Speaker 2: It was you too. You have a thriving podcast, you
Speaker 2: have two children. You have but I'm here, I'm a
Speaker 2: veil here. Well, hold on, before we get into this,
Speaker 2: let me give you our messy mandates, which I can find.
Speaker 2: Here we go, things get to be unprocessed. Any thoughts
Speaker 2: or opinions shared have the right to evolve, shift or
Speaker 2: change today tomorrow, ten years from now and.
Speaker 1: Sorry, that wasn't even supposed to be funny.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be as gonna be a mess. And
Speaker 2: if during the kiki something feels too personal unintentionally offends,
Speaker 2: we use the safe word foosball, which gives us a
Speaker 2: chance to pause and address or pivot accordingly.
Speaker 1: You guys a lot.
Speaker 2: This is so well. We known each other since we
Speaker 2: were nineteen uh and we are now twenty two, so
Speaker 2: it's a long time. It's like three whole years. Yea,
Speaker 2: three whole years. It's a really long time. Shall we
Speaker 2: start with a loupe breaker?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Okay, the way you're looking at side, you get to
Speaker 2: say blue wall. At any point you're like, very much
Speaker 2: blue breaker.
Speaker 1: Foosball.
Speaker 2: I mean we're gonna we're gonna play fuck Mary block. Okay,
Speaker 2: I like this, uh fuck Mary block. Massages, kissing, cuddling.
Speaker 1: I think I'm gonna block kissing.
Speaker 2: Okay, you're black kissing, think about it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna marry cuddling, and I'm gonna fuck a massage.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I love a massage, massage, I love
Speaker 1: a massage. I'm actually gonna marry ann fuck a massage,
Speaker 1: and then the rest can go Okay, I'm fine.
Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna fuck. I'm gonna marry
Speaker 2: a massage. I always want to be a massage.
Speaker 1: Me too.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna fuck kissing. I love making out and I'm
Speaker 2: gonna but I love cuddling, but I don't need it.
Speaker 2: I don't need it.
Speaker 1: I don't need kissing or cuddling.
Speaker 2: You don't be kissing or cuddling and I like it.
Speaker 2: But like, but it's not like you're not crave.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I don't crave cuddling. Yeah, it's like, leave me.
Speaker 2: I want my personal space. But I love to make out.
Speaker 2: But a massage, yeah, man.
Speaker 1: But okay, but if it's not a good massage, like
Speaker 1: I move away from right. Okay, do you remember this
Speaker 1: is so this is old, this is old New York stuff.
Speaker 1: I once met a guy and he was really nice,
Speaker 1: and he came to my house, my apartment, and we
Speaker 1: like watched a movie and he like put in his
Speaker 1: arm around me and then he like was stroking my
Speaker 1: arm and it was really soft.
Speaker 2: Like very soft hands or softly softly touched.
Speaker 1: It was a faint and it was so ick to
Speaker 1: me that. I never went out with him again, but
Speaker 1: we referred to him as soft Touch for the next
Speaker 1: four years. While I like there was a literal man
Speaker 1: who was lovely lovely, we called soft Touch for years.
Speaker 2: I loved giving names, used to give so many. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I still give. I give nickas on the show for
Speaker 2: nicknames on the show.
Speaker 1: But soft touch, soft touch, Yeah, that's not a great
Speaker 1: like a twenty two year old man.
Speaker 2: Like it was like, well, it's like it's like it's
Speaker 2: like a good thing to be touched softly. When you're
Speaker 2: saying it, it's being subverted as like negative and so
Speaker 2: like yeah, it.
Speaker 1: Was just like it's like if you want to put
Speaker 1: your arm around me, like put your like you know.
Speaker 1: This was literally like it was like, oh, I'm touching
Speaker 1: like a piece of paper at the archive, which it
Speaker 1: was like, so I was like, am I that frad?
Speaker 1: Guess it was so bad?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I had a massage once. I worked at this
Speaker 2: rowing studio briefly and they gifted the instructors with massages
Speaker 2: and it was like come in for like your fifteen
Speaker 2: minute appointment. I swear this woman just like like just
Speaker 2: light and I for fifteen minutes. It was before I
Speaker 2: found my voice because now like you really have to
Speaker 2: stop harder, harder, or have to see it out. But
Speaker 2: it was it was like she's like has that was
Speaker 2: like a little more pressure, and then she's like a
Speaker 2: little bit more. It was. It was useless. It was
Speaker 2: so useless. It pissed me off. So I don't I
Speaker 2: don't know if that's bad. Yeah, and now now I
Speaker 2: get recommendations for massages. Okay, fucking marry block Missionary, Doggie
Speaker 2: sixty nine.
Speaker 1: I'm going to block sixty nine. Okay, I really don't
Speaker 1: care for that. It's not I would like to focus
Speaker 1: on myself when I am receiving, and I would like
Speaker 1: to focus on you when i'm giving. Like I just
Speaker 1: it's distracting. I can't enjoy. You're not enjoying because I'm
Speaker 1: not even doing my best work because I'm like.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, yes, yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I don't agree. I just I really like to focus.
Speaker 2: Yes, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna marry Missionary. It's a classic. It really is
Speaker 1: a classic. It works great for me. And then I
Speaker 1: guess I'll fuck Doggy.
Speaker 2: Okay, beautiful, Yeah, I would. I will on that. I'm
Speaker 2: probably gonna be the same. I'm gonna block of sixty
Speaker 2: nine because it's fine and like there's it's a it's
Speaker 2: a nice seasoning from time to time, but it's not
Speaker 2: I'm not like I can't wait to sixty nine.
Speaker 1: Like we can take turns, we can do that.
Speaker 2: I am going to actually I'm going to marry Doggie.
Speaker 2: I could always because if I'm if I'm fucking, if
Speaker 2: I'm topping, I love to see that ass. If I
Speaker 2: am being topped, it's less intense, so I can like
Speaker 2: take it.
Speaker 1: Like the anatomy is different too, sure, absolutely, yes. I
Speaker 1: feel like Missionary is like real easy, basic, yeah, with
Speaker 1: certain with certain genitaliah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Genetics, that's it's getting very very eugenics.
Speaker 2: Not there, not there. Yeah. I like Missionary and you know,
Speaker 2: Propa pillow under me, So I'll funk Missionary. I marry
Speaker 2: Doggie and I'll block sixty nine. You won the game?
Speaker 1: What did I win? My hoping for donut?
Speaker 2: That's my god, that's incredible. Time get donuts next up? Okay,
Speaker 2: if you have I have submissions, you can email me
Speaker 2: at tell me something messy at gmail dot com. Speaking
Speaker 2: of which, Tracy, can you tell me something.
Speaker 1: I struggled with this list.
Speaker 2: People do stress about this because.
Speaker 1: I know I have messy things, But as soon as
Speaker 1: someone tells me authority, you're like someone's like, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I can't think of anything. My brain goes blank.
Speaker 2: It's when people say to a comedian, be funny, and
Speaker 2: you're like, I have no jokes. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I guess what I'm going to tell you is
Speaker 1: that I am the worst mom in the social group
Speaker 1: of moms, in the world of children. I have five
Speaker 1: year old twins as you know, the mini stacks as
Speaker 1: we call them, and there are moms who want to
Speaker 1: be friends. I don't want to be fun. I have friends,
Speaker 1: and I will ignore, I will lie, I will My
Speaker 1: favorite move is like, hey, do you guys want to
Speaker 1: like do a playdate tomorrow or like later today? Leave
Speaker 1: on red until I'm like an hour after and be like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm just we're just getting out of something.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's messy.
Speaker 2: We are the same, We're the same. Yeah, I just
Speaker 2: like yeah, yeah, it's like it's it's I love talking
Speaker 2: to you about this because I feel like it's the
Speaker 2: thing that people don't talk about, which is like, which
Speaker 2: you made me have to it on now. We talk
Speaker 2: to all my mother friends about this, which is you
Speaker 2: have to like be friends with your kids friends moms
Speaker 2: and like you're like, I don't necessarily like them, but.
Speaker 1: Like I don't and like, I mean, I'm sure you can,
Speaker 1: like when you interview people for a living, yeah, and
Speaker 1: you're constantly being interested in people. Yes, yes, I don't
Speaker 1: want to be interested in someone like I don't want
Speaker 1: But then you have to have something to talk about
Speaker 1: because you have nothing in common that you know of
Speaker 1: besides little Billy likes Little Timmy, yeah know, And it's like, oh, okay,
Speaker 1: like oh, are your kids picky eaters? Yeah? What is
Speaker 1: your kiddie? They love chicken fingers. And I'm just like,
Speaker 1: like when it's like a group of like a group
Speaker 1: play day and there's multiple moms and then me, I'm
Speaker 1: just sitting there like, yeah, I want to be dead,
Speaker 1: like I just I don't. I don't want to be
Speaker 1: locked in. And it's not that any of these people
Speaker 1: aren't nice people, but it's just the conversation like I'm like,
Speaker 1: why don't you tell me something about your life? Tell
Speaker 1: me something interesting, like talk some ship with me, give
Speaker 1: me a reason to be here, and it's like they like,
Speaker 1: it's not even oh we went out to dinner at
Speaker 1: this great restaurant. It's literally like things were like where
Speaker 1: did you get your kids sneakers from? I'm like Amazon, just.
Speaker 2: Like you do you think that it's like they their
Speaker 2: their life and it's everyone, but like that their life
Speaker 2: has become just centered around the kids.
Speaker 1: And but I don't really talk about myself either because
Speaker 1: I'm also not trying to make friends. Sure, like I'm.
Speaker 2: Just you, but you also like you're so interesting.
Speaker 1: Sure, but I'm never gonna talk about myself.
Speaker 2: Why not.
Speaker 1: I'm never gonna be like, hey, guys, I know we're
Speaker 1: talking about you know what jelly, which I love, But
Speaker 1: did you know that? On my podcast I interviewed Ginger
Speaker 1: Spice from The Spice Girls, which I did, but I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna do that.
Speaker 2: Sure do they ever ask they know what you do?
Speaker 1: So one a few of them do. One woman like
Speaker 1: listens and she'll text me and I actually really like her.
Speaker 1: She's like a very nice lady and she'll text me
Speaker 1: like she was like, oh my god, Ginger Spice, And
Speaker 1: I was like, I know, but like the thought of
Speaker 1: doing like I have friends who do like mommy's night
Speaker 1: out with other school moms, friends like friends like their kids,
Speaker 1: like other school moms that they've met through the school.
Speaker 1: They'll go out and get drinks or go to dinner.
Speaker 1: Never never, I will never. I mean maybe I will,
Speaker 1: but I'm not just gonna do that. It's gotta be
Speaker 1: mom's I want to be around.
Speaker 2: It's like your ideal mom to be around.
Speaker 1: I don't know one of my friends who has kids,
Speaker 1: one of my friends who I like, who has kids.
Speaker 1: I just I don't know at any mom that is
Speaker 1: like disgruntled like I am. Like any mom who's not
Speaker 1: like my kid is the best thing that ever.
Speaker 2: I feel like. I think that what I love about
Speaker 2: you is that you are honest about the experience of
Speaker 2: parenthood and it's like all of it, like the fun stuff,
Speaker 2: the hard stuff, And I feel like sometimes people try
Speaker 2: to present that everything is okay, and you have a
Speaker 2: very low bullshit barometer.
Speaker 1: I can't.
Speaker 2: I can't.
Speaker 1: I don't like because then if you ever see me
Speaker 1: out with my kids, you'll be like that woman was
Speaker 1: lying because she does not She does not want to
Speaker 1: cut the sandwich into a heart. She does not want
Speaker 1: to make Easter Bunny pancakes. No, she doesn't. She doesn't
Speaker 1: even want to make pancakes. We had fruit loops for Easter.
Speaker 1: Like I'm tired. It's a Sunday.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I love it. I love it. Thank you
Speaker 2: for that. I feel like you just rated a bunch
Speaker 2: of parents. Shall we do some mess email? Sure, beautiful.
Speaker 2: Let me read this one for you. Okay, this one says,
Speaker 2: I'm recovering from purity upbringing purchase my first butt plug
Speaker 2: and vibe. I'm still nervous to try, but just purchasing
Speaker 2: them with such a big step for myself. Have you
Speaker 2: ever purchased a toy? And do you remember the experience
Speaker 2: of it? What was it like?
Speaker 1: And you can foose wallet if you're like, I've never
Speaker 1: Oh really, okay, I've used, but I never purchased.
Speaker 2: Okay, lovely, I've uh, I've purchased toys, but I actually,
Speaker 2: and I've said on this like, I don't love toys.
Speaker 2: Now we have different genitals and they the penis toys
Speaker 2: do not do anything. Yeah for me? Uh So, I'm
Speaker 2: always like I'm trying, I'm trying to find the right ones,
Speaker 2: but I think that it's such a big step, Like
Speaker 2: would you ever buy one for yourself or do you?
Speaker 1: I mean I would. Okay, here's the thing about being
Speaker 1: an online person. Yeah, you get free stuff, that's true.
Speaker 1: So like I have free ones that I've received and
Speaker 1: they're fine, they're fine, Like I don't it's not something that.
Speaker 2: I'm You're like craving. Yeah, I'm fine. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2: I there's part of me that's like I'm not craving.
Speaker 2: But people seem to have such transformative experiences that I'm like,
Speaker 2: maybe all I know, maybe I'll I'll set aside some
Speaker 2: time to try.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to I'm going to sleep.
Speaker 2: If I have time, let's see, like I'm out of
Speaker 2: the sleep. Okay. This one says I have a feeling
Speaker 2: my ex wants to get back together. I'm open to it,
Speaker 2: but how do I bring it up? What do you think?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to get back together with me? That's
Speaker 1: what I would say.
Speaker 2: Oh, fair, you're talking like, yeah, kind of.
Speaker 1: It's not my ex. You wish. I think I would
Speaker 1: just I mean, I would probably play it off like silly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like, do you if you have a
Speaker 2: feel like I'm curious about, like how you get this
Speaker 2: feeling the feeling? Like are they saying something, are.
Speaker 1: They They like, I want to get back together with you?
Speaker 1: They like text me like you up?
Speaker 2: Like, but what's the I mean, I always feel like
Speaker 2: people are excess for a reason, that's right.
Speaker 1: I mean got back together, and absolutely.
Speaker 2: There are excess for a reason. So honestly, if they
Speaker 2: want it, they especially if they ended it.
Speaker 1: Sounds like the writer wants it, They're like, how do
Speaker 1: I bring it up? Yeah? I mean, honestly, you don't
Speaker 1: have anything to lose, like, because you're not you are
Speaker 1: head together and if you're still in like a lot
Speaker 1: of good communication. The worst thing you would happen is
Speaker 1: that you'd be embarrassed and then you'd be not as
Speaker 1: good communication. But again it's your ex so like so like,
Speaker 1: so they're already gone. So I would be like, why
Speaker 1: are you hitting on me? Do you miss me?
Speaker 2: Do you want that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Because because I'm not open to it, that's fair, that's fair. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I have questions about it. But I would also say,
Speaker 2: why spend the block? You know what I'm saying. But
Speaker 2: sometimes we spend the block because it's comfortable. But I
Speaker 2: still I don't know, I don't know, I don't know. Okay,
Speaker 2: this one says my dom made me keep his com
Speaker 2: on my face while he watched me finish my grad
Speaker 2: school paper.
Speaker 1: Last No, that's rude. You're writing like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: I'm not even trying to king shame.
Speaker 2: I'm just like.
Speaker 1: It's logistically irritating, just like I'm like, if I have
Speaker 1: like hair, I can't focus.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like the thing is like if I have to
Speaker 2: do legit work, I'm like.
Speaker 1: I'm like hair bag like baseball cap on.
Speaker 2: I'm so sorry this time has to go. It's trip
Speaker 2: if it works for you work, but like I just
Speaker 2: could not. I have to My work station has to
Speaker 2: be set up so specifically for me to work and
Speaker 2: come on my face would just not do it. But
Speaker 2: like hot, you know, and also he's watching you, right,
Speaker 2: I can't do that either.
Speaker 1: Okay, if I was at top, I'd be like no,
Speaker 1: because I like I want to sleep, like IM like
Speaker 1: I want I want to do anything else but watch
Speaker 1: your face.
Speaker 2: While you write on a computer.
Speaker 1: Art history in the eighteen fifty but you know what.
Speaker 2: Also, but like also for you patroon hot, like if
Speaker 2: you were into it, I love it. I would be
Speaker 2: in my head.
Speaker 1: Yes, I couldn't. I couldn't do both.
Speaker 2: It couldn't do it.
Speaker 1: Could I couldn't. I could let it be there or
Speaker 1: I could write this paper, but we can't do And
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get an a.
Speaker 2: I'm trying to get that.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to get an a. So it's gotta be
Speaker 1: a wipe. It might maybe it's like a wipe and
Speaker 1: like we'll say this for later, or like do you
Speaker 1: want to do it again later and then and then
Speaker 1: we can. But I like missus Marston means this paper,
Speaker 1: I don't know what I mean. I just really made that.
Speaker 2: Marks you could we learned with when er fight Master
Speaker 2: was here, we learned about somebody submitted about a squirts cicle.
Speaker 2: So they took fix your face, They took their the
Speaker 2: juices and then they frozen, which show you could do
Speaker 2: that with the and then you yeah, you like liqu
Speaker 2: at or eat it or something. I imagine what I
Speaker 2: would do is I would imagine if I were to
Speaker 2: do this, I would take the cum off my face
Speaker 2: and put it in like little icicle thing and then
Speaker 2: I add like some juice and some fruit, so it's
Speaker 2: like mixed.
Speaker 1: I just don't like to fuck with my food, Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm that's fair. I can't. I'm so glad other people
Speaker 1: are out here doing this.
Speaker 2: One says I'm catching feelings for someone. He made me
Speaker 2: orgasm three times on the first date. Is that enough
Speaker 2: catch feelings.
Speaker 1: For like emotional feelings?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I assume.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like those things can be different.
Speaker 1: I'm happy for that person. They feel they're feeling good,
Speaker 1: they think they like him person Like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I feel like that's I mean, what's wrong orgasms and
Speaker 1: you feel like you like them? Congratulations?
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, I guess I always have to say, you know,
Speaker 2: orgasms and liking somebody don't have to go hand in hand.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 2: That like, especially with the first date, Like you can
Speaker 2: maybe come all you want, but like, who the fuck
Speaker 2: are you? Yeah? And like what like I'm not catching
Speaker 2: feel quite fast.
Speaker 1: See, I'm the opposite. I fall in love with everybody.
Speaker 2: I love a crush crush.
Speaker 1: Well you know me, I've been love I love everybody
Speaker 1: I am.
Speaker 2: I have gym crushes all the time. God, I have
Speaker 2: a gym crush when I was in New York. Fast.
Speaker 2: That's great, that's a great reason for a crush.
Speaker 1: Just like sometimes we're on treadmills next to each other.
Speaker 2: I'm like, faster, absolutely, and I love them any competition absolute.
Speaker 1: But yeah, so I I can catch feelings for someone instantly, okay,
Speaker 1: but they're not real. I just like, I just love
Speaker 1: to fall in love with someone. But so, yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't think. I mean if you i'm taking this person
Speaker 1: for I'm trying to take it as they are catching
Speaker 1: feelings and the sex was good as opposed to their
Speaker 1: catching feelings because the sex was good, oh.
Speaker 2: Fair, But I feel like, who knows I'm catching feelings
Speaker 2: for someone he made me work as three times on
Speaker 2: the first date. I feel like it's he made you come,
Speaker 2: and you're like, who is this person? And now catching feelings?
Speaker 1: Sure that's less ideal for me personally, yes.
Speaker 2: But I want to know more about you before I
Speaker 2: say I'm catching feelings. But that's also But listen, this
Speaker 2: is the thing.
Speaker 1: I catch feelings like like I will be in love
Speaker 1: with you and and then like then I find out
Speaker 1: one thing and I'm like the fucking yeah.
Speaker 2: I don't want to diabolical. Yeah, I guess listen, have fun,
Speaker 2: catch your feelings, but you know, just keep your wits
Speaker 2: about you. I guess, yeah, thing like enjoy the enjoy
Speaker 2: the falling, enjoy the crushing, but also like, you know,
Speaker 2: don't fall unintentionally, you know, be intentional about the yea.
Speaker 1: Like who did he vote for?
Speaker 2: Period?
Speaker 1: You know, like like you can catch things, but we
Speaker 1: do have to do.
Speaker 2: We have to do the research. Ask about the politics
Speaker 2: of that dick before you make it spit. That's is
Speaker 2: That is the team. Okay, this is my missy pick.
Speaker 2: You're ready for the real, the real Kiki. Okay, this
Speaker 2: is a longer letter, and we are. I'm going to
Speaker 2: preface this by saying Tracy that like I'm.
Speaker 1: So nervous, I'm sweating. I don't even know that I
Speaker 1: didn't know you. I would never do that.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, I know, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: It's why I feel so honored. Listen, we're gonna, we're gonna,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna read it and then we'll we'll give the disclaimer,
Speaker 2: which is that like we're going to stumble through this,
Speaker 2: uh imperfectly or maybe maybe you're maybe you'll be perfect,
Speaker 2: but I know that I won't. Okay, So I'm black
Speaker 2: and in an interracial relationship with a white partner. I
Speaker 2: love him so much, but I feel a bit ostracized
Speaker 2: by certain family members, friends, and even people on the
Speaker 2: internet who are judgmental about it. My dad, in particular,
Speaker 2: is very bothered. He's a black nationalist type who wants
Speaker 2: me to be married to a black man that's similar
Speaker 2: to him. I don't want to disappoint him, and it's
Speaker 2: weighing on me, which my partner can feel. What's weird
Speaker 2: is a lot of my closest community are black, except
Speaker 2: for my romantic partner. Contrary to what it feels like.
Speaker 2: People think I'm very pro black. That seems obvious, but
Speaker 2: it's like my romantic partnership is a betrail to the community.
Speaker 2: How do you navigate being pro black but having a
Speaker 2: white partner?
Speaker 1: I have a white partner, I do as well. I
Speaker 1: also have a white mom, so I am both the
Speaker 1: product of and currently in an inter racial We like
Speaker 1: to call, you know, just just a mix. We're just
Speaker 1: a mix, mix mix it up. I don't know, man,
Speaker 1: There's not a good answer. If you feel like you
Speaker 1: can't handle it. If you can't if you feel like
Speaker 1: you're being judged, you don't like how it feels, it
Speaker 1: makes you feel bad in your relationship. Not the relationship
Speaker 1: for you. If you feel like you want to stick
Speaker 1: it out, you're okay to do that, then it works.
Speaker 1: Like a lot of relationships don't work for a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons. And I think like feeling like your dad
Speaker 1: is disappointed in you is a fine reason to not
Speaker 1: want to be with someone. I think if you really
Speaker 1: want to be with this person, then you got to
Speaker 1: figure out a way to deal with it. But if
Speaker 1: you're like I like him a lot, but also I
Speaker 1: don't want my life to be this, that's like totally fine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, have you had tension Obviously wouldn't tension at home,
Speaker 2: but have you attention with the world or being you
Speaker 2: know you're.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I'm mixed, so people have to tell
Speaker 1: me that I'm not black. I mean, like I get
Speaker 1: all of it.
Speaker 2: But I I know that you're very comfortable and confident now,
Speaker 2: but like growing up and growing in to that, how
Speaker 2: did you kind of navigate the Yeah, all of the ridicule.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm from Oakland, so like a lot of
Speaker 1: people are mixed there. Yeah, and so it wasn't like
Speaker 1: I definitely don't have the story where it's like I
Speaker 1: was the only black kid or the only mixed kid
Speaker 1: where I grew up, Like, yeah, so many of my
Speaker 1: friends are mixed, whether it's black and white or you know,
Speaker 1: white and whatever or black and whatever. Like, So I
Speaker 1: don't I don't have strong memories of like feeling ostracized.
Speaker 1: I do have. I did not fully understand what it
Speaker 1: meant to be black and white, Like I didn't understand
Speaker 1: the implications to the out as a kid, like I
Speaker 1: remember sometimes people would ask my mom like if she
Speaker 1: was our nanny, and I remember being like, that's so weird.
Speaker 1: Why would they think that, you know, like as a
Speaker 1: kid or you know, I definitely like it was a
Speaker 1: different time, right, The nineties was a different, different time,
Speaker 1: and there wasn't as much like black media for young people, sure, right,
Speaker 1: like obviously Spike Lee was around, But at eight, I
Speaker 1: wasn't like I wasn't like do the right thing, and
Speaker 1: so I think I didn't really understand. Like my dad
Speaker 1: would sometimes be like, you know, you're black and you're
Speaker 1: gonna have to work twice as hard, and I remember
Speaker 1: as a kid, I was always like like I'm tracy,
Speaker 1: Like I didn't really understand what he was getting. At now,
Speaker 1: of course I understand it, but like I think a
Speaker 1: lot of it went over my head as a kid
Speaker 1: because my brother's best friend was mixed. Obviously my brother
Speaker 1: was mixed. I mean just so many people I had,
Speaker 1: like multiple friends who were mixed in middle school, not
Speaker 1: as much an elementary school.
Speaker 2: But you just never like felt like you were on
Speaker 2: the outside.
Speaker 1: It never felt like the thing that some people tell,
Speaker 1: like I don't know who I am or where I blong,
Speaker 1: like I always have felt. I say that I'm a
Speaker 1: black woman, yeah, but I've always felt very comfortable saying
Speaker 1: that I'm mixed as well, Like I've never felt I
Speaker 1: never felt the like oreo thing. Sure, even though I
Speaker 1: know that people probably said that about me, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just I am mixed, Like I don't know, I
Speaker 1: am both black and white on the inside and the outside.
Speaker 1: Like I don't I get it. I get that it's
Speaker 1: an insult, and I also, you know, the older I get.
Speaker 1: I'm also just like it's really fucking anti black to
Speaker 1: say that someone's not black because of whatever, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, black people all have to be like
Speaker 1: this one way or be this one thing. And if
Speaker 1: you if you're a creative and you make something that's
Speaker 1: not exactly what your life was like. You can't tell
Speaker 1: these stories even like within the black community all of.
Speaker 2: That, Like I just, yeah, you've made peace with that.
Speaker 2: I I think that. So I grew up in a
Speaker 2: Caribbean household. I'm first generation, and but I went to
Speaker 2: a lot of private schools. So I went to my
Speaker 2: elementary middle school was an international school, so we were
Speaker 2: kind of like all representing from all around the world.
Speaker 2: And then my high school was very much predominantly white,
Speaker 2: and so I wasn't My mom always said, like, I'm
Speaker 2: raising a strong black man for a strong black woman.
Speaker 2: So I did hear that growing up. But obviously what
Speaker 2: was counteractive to that was that like I'm queer, and
Speaker 2: so I wasn't gonna be with a woman. Yeah, not
Speaker 2: the right premise. But then there was also when I
Speaker 2: got into like high school, just like what more, what
Speaker 2: more what my options were, which wasn't even in dating,
Speaker 2: which I did date a couple of black girls. It
Speaker 2: just there was like a couple that like were willing
Speaker 2: to date me because they knew I was homosexual, but
Speaker 2: like like the white girls that were like you know
Speaker 2: down today and so like, but I never thought about
Speaker 2: the world's perception of it. I kind of just went
Speaker 2: where whoever was like down to hang out with me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it wasn't like, oh I don't like And I think
Speaker 2: that's what where I get tension as an adult is
Speaker 2: people assuming that there is a discard or like I
Speaker 2: don't like black men, or I don't like black people
Speaker 2: because I have a white partner as opposed to. It
Speaker 2: just so happened to work out that, like, this is
Speaker 2: my partner, but I wasn't like looking for There's like
Speaker 2: a there's a feeling that partners of color, black partners
Speaker 2: who have white partners are looking for white partners as
Speaker 2: opposed to they just fell in love.
Speaker 1: But nobody says that to the white partner.
Speaker 2: No, that is always what's frustrating. The white partner is like.
Speaker 1: Super woke and like wow, wow, white guys dating, yeahs
Speaker 1: so cool.
Speaker 2: You have a black wife, you have a black husband,
Speaker 2: a black spouse, and the black or brown Asian partner
Speaker 2: is like, you hate your race and you're betraying and
Speaker 2: you get that from everywhere, Like you get it from
Speaker 2: your community, but you also get it outside of your community.
Speaker 2: And I'm just to your earlier point. It does feel
Speaker 2: so curiously anti black, because you are now being disparaging
Speaker 2: to a black person right based off of like who
Speaker 2: they love.
Speaker 1: And saying like they're less black because of it. And
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, so there is such thing as
Speaker 1: a black monelith them, Like they're either there's no such thing.
Speaker 1: Black people can be whatever they want and more expansive,
Speaker 1: or there's rules to being black. But you can't be like, oh,
Speaker 1: black people can do whatever, and then as soon as
Speaker 1: a black person does something you don't like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: not black black, Like I don't fuck with Candice Owen,
Speaker 1: it's not one single bit, but she's still black, right,
Speaker 1: right right, And like we deserve black villains, you know,
Speaker 1: like do you know what I mean? Like I mean
Speaker 1: not that we've had a problem with black villain representation,
Speaker 1: but like every black person doesn't have to be my
Speaker 1: black person, every black Like we are allowed to have
Speaker 1: black conservatives, even I think they're fucking assholes, which is
Speaker 1: not any different than a white conservative I think is
Speaker 1: a fucking asshole, you know. Like it's just so I think,
Speaker 1: like if you want to say black people are expansive
Speaker 1: and they can be and do everything and anything, which
Speaker 1: is what I believe then you don't get to tell
Speaker 1: someone they're less black because they're whatever. And like, I mean,
Speaker 1: backtracking to our eugenics conversation earlier, I think there's something
Speaker 1: really interesting that happened with mixed raced people and people
Speaker 1: who are like in in inter raci relationships or whatever,
Speaker 1: where this conversation becomes like, oh, you're less black than
Speaker 1: And it is interesting because it really buys into the
Speaker 1: history of like race science, right, which is like race science, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's all made up, it doesn't exist. But it's like
Speaker 1: a lot of people try to talk about how, you know,
Speaker 1: the one drop rule, right, like that's how it was,
Speaker 1: how it came about in this country. So if you
Speaker 1: had one drop of black, you were black, and many
Speaker 1: people who looked white were embraced for their blackness in
Speaker 1: black communities. And now there's sort of this pushback of like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're only half black, like you're not even though experience,
Speaker 1: you know, family, all of that is black. And so
Speaker 1: I think that part of it is also really interesting
Speaker 1: to me, of like, oh, you're not black because you
Speaker 1: have a white parent. But it's like, you know, I
Speaker 1: didn't invent the rules, right, Like I'm like this is
Speaker 1: this is who I am. These are my parents, And
Speaker 1: if you want to say that I'm less black, like
Speaker 1: you are trafficking in this weird eugenics, yes, sort of
Speaker 1: like oh if you're less than twenty five percent or
Speaker 1: like you know, there's always this, There'll always be these
Speaker 1: things where like certain celebrities you'll find out they're black
Speaker 1: and I'm like, oh, well they're not black because they
Speaker 1: don't look black. I'm like, oh, well, is that now
Speaker 1: the bar? Like what is the bar? And why is
Speaker 1: it moving so much? And you know, that's a conversation
Speaker 1: that I think can and should be had of like
Speaker 1: the one drop rule was imposed on people, right, but
Speaker 1: like the question is then, like what does make someone black?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I I don't know if I had
Speaker 2: the end. And I think what's interesting is that I
Speaker 2: think it's it's such a delicate conversation blackness and racial relationships.
Speaker 2: But it never seemed why I wanted to have it
Speaker 2: with you is because there never seems to be the
Speaker 2: appropriate space to have it in a compassionate way. It's
Speaker 2: very much you know, like doctor Umar, like it's this
Speaker 2: or not. You're like, I don't, I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do with that. But I guess my feeling is,
Speaker 2: what is your experience? Like, are you having an experience
Speaker 2: where people are treating you as black? Which is a
Speaker 2: very clear experience, Like not to be morbid, but like
Speaker 2: are you scared of the cops when the cops over?
Speaker 1: Like, but there's also people who are black who are
Speaker 1: raised with black parents who maybe don't present as black, sure,
Speaker 1: who have a black experience.
Speaker 2: That's true, Like what is the black experience? Right?
Speaker 1: What does the black experience mean? And like, you know,
Speaker 1: I always like, there's this soccer player in the UK.
Speaker 1: His name is Cole Palmer. Yeah, and he looks white
Speaker 1: as hell, white as hell. Like when I found out
Speaker 1: he was black, I was like, dang, but he has
Speaker 1: a black, I believe Jamaican grandfather. And when you see
Speaker 1: his grandfather, there's not like he's black. Yeah, when you
Speaker 1: see Cole, you're like, I don't quite get it. But
Speaker 1: I don't know that we get to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's white because he looks white like it is.
Speaker 2: If we're saying black expirits is expansive, then he is.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean he has a black grandparent. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a I mean he's at least a quarter black.
Speaker 1: Like so I think, you know, it becomes and again
Speaker 1: that's all like race science or whatever, but like it
Speaker 1: becomes really interesting who like I don't know, it's hard
Speaker 1: to know who gets to decide who's what or whatever.
Speaker 1: And obviously, like people like Rachel Dolezel have like complicated,
Speaker 1: well they have they complicated who gets me white? Because
Speaker 1: you should just be like, if you wanted to be black,
Speaker 1: you get to be black, because like you know, in America,
Speaker 1: who wants to be black? Like who would choose it
Speaker 1: if they weren't? That used to be sort of the logestion, right,
Speaker 1: and now there are people who are like want so
Speaker 1: badly to be down in the side that like they
Speaker 1: make it so that other people have to like prove themselves.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you remember there was like a TikTok
Speaker 1: of someone who was like I'm I'm not like no, no, no,
Speaker 1: and then they like showed a picture of their like mom, right,
Speaker 1: it was like, yeah, I mean that person's raised by
Speaker 1: a black mom, even if they look white like that,
Speaker 1: you know, yes, And then there's people who look black
Speaker 1: who are raised you know, who are maybe are adopted
Speaker 1: or raised by white people and don't have the like
Speaker 1: black experience, but are they not black?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean those are great questions. I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess the answer is if we're saying the black experience
Speaker 2: gets to be expansive and it's not monolith, then like,
Speaker 2: if you are black, you are having a black experience.
Speaker 2: It may not be the majority black experience, but it's
Speaker 2: still part of the experience. I guess where it gets tricky.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say tricky, but I'm using I'm not saying
Speaker 2: this is my attention, but I'm seeing on kind of
Speaker 2: the communal tension is the feeling that some people are
Speaker 2: being treated better than others, right that like which then
Speaker 2: gets into the like if you are if you are
Speaker 2: black but you look white, you might be having a
Speaker 2: better experience in this world than if you are a
Speaker 2: darker skin. Yeah, And so then I think that's where
Speaker 2: a lot of the book comes up or gets kicked up,
Speaker 2: and that's where the fight happens. I wish that, I mean,
Speaker 2: I think I wish that we were more compassionate. I
Speaker 2: wish that, Uh, I wish, like going back to this
Speaker 2: person's like question, specifically in terms of relationship, Like, I
Speaker 2: personally wish that I wasn't something that I had to navigate,
Speaker 2: like you know, getting called a snow chaser or having
Speaker 2: people dismiss my work because my husband is white. They
Speaker 2: love to do that where it's like, oh, you're not.
Speaker 2: Oh we thought you were cool until we found out
Speaker 2: your you know, husband's white. And it also to mean negates.
Speaker 2: Like I said, this will be imperfect. I understand that
Speaker 2: there are black folks and people of color who are
Speaker 2: with white partners because they are under the impression that
Speaker 2: there is safety in that. And I understand that there
Speaker 2: are black folks and brown folks and Asian folks who
Speaker 2: chase after whiteness to have that security in that safety.
Speaker 2: But I think what never gets asked one. I think
Speaker 2: that all of us get lumped into that. So now
Speaker 2: every black person that has a white partner is trying
Speaker 2: to get closer to whiteness. And also it never the
Speaker 2: questions ever asked what happened to that black person that
Speaker 2: is making them chase whiteness, which I think is like
Speaker 2: a compassionate question. I'm not saying it excuses whatever, but
Speaker 2: like I never hear that part of it, like what
Speaker 2: experience did that person a person of color have that
Speaker 2: has warped them or their psyche to feel as though
Speaker 2: they need you have a white partner to feel safe,
Speaker 2: And where's what what is that conversation? And are we
Speaker 2: having that conversation which I can't have. I don't. I
Speaker 2: don't know it, but I do know the conversation of like,
Speaker 2: I'm pro black, I love like my friends are black,
Speaker 2: my community is black. I you know, create programs for
Speaker 2: specifically black folks, but I have a white partner, And
Speaker 2: why does that negate my my blackness? Which it doesn't.
Speaker 2: It literally doesn't, but it doesn't mean that it's not painful, sure,
Speaker 2: or like sad to feel like, oh wow, I have
Speaker 2: to prove myself in a way, and ultimately, you know,
Speaker 2: I've gotten to a place where I have to go,
Speaker 2: like I know who I am, My people know who
Speaker 2: I am, and people who follow meople follow me, and
Speaker 2: my community knows who I am, and like that's actually
Speaker 2: what matters, and I'm loved and like that's also part
Speaker 2: of it. Like I had, which has nothing to do
Speaker 2: with like I had a partner who was emotionally abusive
Speaker 2: and was of color. And what I find so interesting
Speaker 2: is that no one ever asks if I'm loved my relationship.
Speaker 2: They just ask about the race, and it's like the
Speaker 2: race has nothing to do with whether or not I'm
Speaker 2: going to be loved well right, or if you're going
Speaker 2: to be a good partner, like sometimes we will. I
Speaker 2: notice where if your partners of the same race, then
Speaker 2: everyone's cool, but there's no conversation about like are you
Speaker 2: being treated well right? Are you being loved or is
Speaker 2: it just that like you're both of the same race.
Speaker 2: Whereas if it's inter racial, then it's.
Speaker 1: Like, well you hate your right well like that the
Speaker 1: interracial like invites outside opinion. Yes, yes, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe because I have a bad attitude,
Speaker 1: maybe because I've grown up mixed my whole life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just don't. I don't know, Like there are people
Speaker 1: who are gonna not like you or think that you're
Speaker 1: a phony no matter what you do, yeah, no matter
Speaker 1: who you are. Yeah, Like I come from the book world.
Speaker 1: People used to write horrible reviews of Tony Morrison's books,
Speaker 1: right you know, like, and to me, she is the
Speaker 1: gold standard of black literature, right, like, she is amazing
Speaker 1: And if you go back and read old reviews of her,
Speaker 1: they ship on her stuff. Yeah, they're like they're fine,
Speaker 1: books are fine. So I just feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: and she kept writing and she's the goat. So to me,
Speaker 1: I'm just like you. People are gonna not like me.
Speaker 1: People are gonna say that I'm this and that, and
Speaker 1: I can just do what i can do and I
Speaker 1: can just be who I'm gonna be. And if you
Speaker 1: don't like me, that's fine.
Speaker 2: Like I don't.
Speaker 1: I probably don't even. I mean now with social media,
Speaker 1: like I don't know you. It's different with the person's dad. Sure,
Speaker 1: I think that's really hard. Again, in my family, no
Speaker 1: one could be like, hey, do you have a white husband,
Speaker 1: because I'd be like, yeah, mom, you went inter racial too,
Speaker 1: like what's up?
Speaker 2: But yeah.
Speaker 1: But but I do feel like some of the outside stuff,
Speaker 1: like I don't know, I just don't. It doesn't I
Speaker 1: feel like I've already heard all of it, like as
Speaker 1: a kid, you know.
Speaker 2: Well, you guys, I think you poke holes in it
Speaker 2: and you go, well, what what does this really have
Speaker 2: to do with me? Or is this other pain that's
Speaker 2: not being projected on you? Because of course, you know,
Speaker 2: this is such a much longer conversation, but there are
Speaker 2: you know, racial politics in our countries, So I understand
Speaker 2: where the stress comes from, but it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: that has to do anything with your.
Speaker 1: Current relationship, right, and like you do what you do,
Speaker 1: you do your thing, And like if people, like I
Speaker 1: said in the beginning, if people, if people's opinions about
Speaker 1: your relationship are making your life difficult and you can't
Speaker 1: live with that, that is a totally valid reason to
Speaker 1: end your relationship. Sure, But on the flip side, if
Speaker 1: you really love your partner, and I'm not suggesting that
Speaker 1: you don't love your partner if you choose to bring
Speaker 1: up with them, but like, if the thing that is
Speaker 1: most important to you is the relationship with your partner,
Speaker 1: then you have to say fuck it to the other thing.
Speaker 1: Like you aren't going to be able to be in
Speaker 1: an interracial relationship in this day and age and not
Speaker 1: either hear it from somebody or like you're not going
Speaker 1: to be able to be totally free from outside opinion.
Speaker 1: Like that's just not possible right now. So you have
Speaker 1: to decide which thing is more more bearable, more difficult, whatever,
Speaker 1: and you have to just you know, make that decision.
Speaker 2: And there's always going to be some thing, but that
Speaker 2: I mean that's also with every relationship, there's always gonna
Speaker 2: be something.
Speaker 1: Like people. I mean this is not shots, but like
Speaker 1: I think about people who are like in relationships with
Speaker 1: police officers. Yeah yeah, sure, like I judge you, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you judge my white husband, I judge you. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always gonna be something.
Speaker 1: There's there's something, you know, I'm.
Speaker 2: No monogamous, so like there's yeah, you know, like how
Speaker 2: your relationships set up, there's always going to be something,
Speaker 2: And so if you're basing it off of what other
Speaker 2: people are thinking, you'll kind of never be right.
Speaker 1: But again, I understand if it's like your core community,
Speaker 1: your family, you don't like, I don't think that I
Speaker 1: could bring home a Republican, even if I met one
Speaker 1: and I fell in love with one and I was
Speaker 1: okay with it. I don't think I could be in
Speaker 1: a relationship with someone who was like like a real conservative,
Speaker 1: because I don't think I could bring that person home
Speaker 1: to my family, and my family is more important to
Speaker 1: me at this point.
Speaker 2: In my life.
Speaker 1: Even if I met someone that I really loved, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I just would be like, I don't know, and
Speaker 1: it's not the vibes. Yeah, so I get that, and
Speaker 1: I think that's a totally valid reason to end a
Speaker 1: relationship if that is what someone chose to do. Yes,
Speaker 1: I also think if you choose to stick it out,
Speaker 1: you just have to accept that. Like, people are going
Speaker 1: to have an opinion, but people have an opinion about
Speaker 1: you anyways. People are talking about you no matter what.
Speaker 1: I'm talking shit about you for sure. For sure, if.
Speaker 2: You know me, I'm talking for you. Yeah, I feel
Speaker 2: like I feel like you. One. Yes, I think a
Speaker 2: father is a different piece to it because it is family.
Speaker 2: But ultimately, people always have an opinion and it's you know,
Speaker 2: whether it's the race, or how much money they make
Speaker 2: or where they're from. Like, there's always gonna be a thing.
Speaker 2: And so I think you have to decide for yourself
Speaker 2: is this relationship making my life better? And how often
Speaker 2: am I seeing my father?
Speaker 1: Well? And also if you do capitulate to your dad, yeah,
Speaker 1: you better have a boundary set because the next one
Speaker 1: is going to be doesn't doesn't you know whatever? Because
Speaker 1: once you're given.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's always a thing, there's always the thing. But
Speaker 2: I think ultimately, let me affirm for you and let
Speaker 2: us affirm for you that your white partner does not
Speaker 2: negate your blackness.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, definitely. That's so silly that you feel that way.
Speaker 2: It's so you get to be pro black, you get
Speaker 2: to be your black self. You are black, and so
Speaker 2: nothing even black people telling you that you're not is not.
Speaker 2: They can't, they don't. They don't get to have final
Speaker 2: say over that. And also like know that there are
Speaker 2: people like us who are in inter racial relationships, interracial relationships.
Speaker 1: And well, I'm not black, just ask the internet.
Speaker 2: Don't love me?
Speaker 1: You know you are? You are?
Speaker 2: And I said my podcast, you are, We're black and
Speaker 2: we're in interracial relationships and so affirming you as well,
Speaker 2: Like people are out there. There are people against you
Speaker 2: as of course, but there are also people who are
Speaker 2: for you. I think you just have to figure out
Speaker 2: where you spend your energy and who you spend your
Speaker 2: time with.
Speaker 1: That seems log off, babe, Oh the.
Speaker 2: Way I want to delete all the apps.
Speaker 1: Do you know that someone wants on the Internet said
Speaker 1: that I wasn't phenotypically black And I was like that mad,
Speaker 1: Like I don't have black features, so they didn't know
Speaker 1: I was black? Like I look, that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: People say, But you know it really, like the the
Speaker 2: underneath it all. It's like you're in so much pain,
Speaker 2: like you fixed your fingers to get on here to
Speaker 2: tell somebody you don't know they're not this that Oh
Speaker 2: my god, you really are and you really are in pain.
Speaker 2: You're hurt and it's all you can grasp at because
Speaker 2: you're watching somebody live their life and live their life
Speaker 2: however they see fit and be loved and be valued,
Speaker 2: and you're mad at that. And so even when you
Speaker 2: know I was talking about polyamory and someone's like, I
Speaker 2: bet your partner is white, I was like, what did
Speaker 2: I have to do with so like dope as advice
Speaker 2: I gave you about non monogamy, Like why is that?
Speaker 2: The thing is like, oh, you're there's a there's a misery.
Speaker 1: It's like you have to just hate someone, which I get.
Speaker 1: I love to hate people, but I like to hate
Speaker 1: people on dumb ship that or like real ship, Like
Speaker 1: let me hate you on your marriage.
Speaker 2: You know, yes, you hate worthy things.
Speaker 1: Let me talk ship.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't want the easy one like like real ship. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: let me ask you the final two questions that we
Speaker 2: asked here. I know the answer to the first one.
Speaker 2: Have you read sex and ad No, yeah.
Speaker 1: I've like never even been in a part about it.
Speaker 2: That's not true, but absolutely sometimes you just can't though.
Speaker 2: And then what could you learn to love about yourself? What?
Speaker 1: I know what that means?
Speaker 2: What can I learn?
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means?
Speaker 2: What could you learn to love about yourself?
Speaker 1: Such a big question is I don't know.
Speaker 2: Think about yourself. Think about the things that.
Speaker 1: You like, the things I don't like about myself that
Speaker 1: I can learn.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you can take your time because we'll cut
Speaker 2: out there.
Speaker 1: Oh so I just have to answer that. How about?
Speaker 2: What about?
Speaker 1: What about should I learned somethings I should learn? I
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be so hard on myself about my body.
Speaker 1: I probably could learn to like be okay with these
Speaker 1: extra like ten or.
Speaker 2: So bound extra? What girl? You look so good?
Speaker 1: Well? You know, just some clothes don't fit the way
Speaker 1: that I'd like them too. You know, so I probably could,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to. So let's be let me
Speaker 1: keep that. Really, I was a dancer. I've got serious
Speaker 1: body issues like this, Like this is deep. I started
Speaker 1: dancing it too. We're nuts.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm dating a dancer.
Speaker 1: The body stuff is weird. Maybe I could learn to love.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm.
Speaker 1: Not in person. I don't really have like self loathing, Okay,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? I mean there's things
Speaker 1: I don't like, something you loathe.
Speaker 2: But you're like, oh, like, what do you say? What
Speaker 2: do I say? I hadn't I had a new one
Speaker 2: and I forgot about it.
Speaker 1: What do other people say?
Speaker 2: People say? Bodies is a common one that comes out.
Speaker 2: I could love to learn to love aging. I I
Speaker 2: am a like, I'm a skincare girly down and I
Speaker 2: will spend a lot of time, which I love. I
Speaker 2: just love skincare. But I see myself because you know,
Speaker 2: when we're doing this, like we're it's always on cameras.
Speaker 2: We were both fitness instructors at the same place. You're
Speaker 2: literally looking at yourself in mirrors all day. And so
Speaker 2: and A grew up with like an actress mother, a
Speaker 2: minister grandmother, and so appearances were always a thing. And
Speaker 2: so I could just like learn to love the changes
Speaker 2: of my face and my body more and instead of
Speaker 2: you know, thank you, but you know, I have like
Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm like I literally was I was like
Speaker 2: in the mirror of the day, I was like, oh God,
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get my eye surgery. What are
Speaker 2: we talking about?
Speaker 1: I'm never getting not never, but I really don't want
Speaker 1: to get surgery.
Speaker 2: Listen, I'm scared. Yeah, I mean you have to get
Speaker 2: references and whatnot. But but I feel like it's like, oh,
Speaker 2: why am I so like? Why am I so obsessed
Speaker 2: with what I know? I am? I live I work
Speaker 2: in this industry and I live in Los Angeles. So
Speaker 2: I think that I could learn to love my aging
Speaker 2: and how my body is aging and and and not
Speaker 2: try and hold on to Yeah, twenty two year old
Speaker 2: baby face. It was a youthful pull. It was a
Speaker 2: natural poll the same we really do black nol crack
Speaker 2: and that's on period.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I could learn to love aging more.
Speaker 1: Okay, do I have to come up with another No?
Speaker 2: No, No, here's perfect perfect. Yeah, my hips be doing
Speaker 2: weird things.
Speaker 1: Then I have to I have Oh that's what I
Speaker 1: could learn to love that. I'm losing my flexibility. I
Speaker 1: hate it.
Speaker 2: I hate I'm trying to get I'm trying to get
Speaker 2: more flexible.
Speaker 1: I got you did well, not since last time I
Speaker 1: talked to.
Speaker 2: You last time you're talking to you did a mile
Speaker 2: in how long?
Speaker 1: Six? I think the most recent is six thirty six work.
Speaker 2: I'm sure I can't do that.
Speaker 1: You probably could.
Speaker 2: No, I don't like running like that. I like short bursts,
Speaker 2: like the twenty seconds and then yeah I can't, y'all
Speaker 2: and them. We used to go to Barius together. Remember
Speaker 2: we used to go Beary together. And we had that
Speaker 2: one instructor who shant to be named because I can't
Speaker 2: remember his name, but he was terrible, and we were
Speaker 2: going every week, and then finally we had a substitute
Speaker 2: and we were like, we were like, oh, this is class,
Speaker 2: this is a good class. Yeah, we all stopped going
Speaker 2: because we were really enamored by the hotness of that
Speaker 2: other instructor. Yeah, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: We did it.
Speaker 2: We did it.
Speaker 1: I didn't even really have to food spot.
Speaker 2: No, you did it. I love y'all.
Speaker 1: I feel relief.
Speaker 2: Let's go eat bye bye. Well, you know we are
Speaker 2: hose here, but hoes with heart. So before we go,
Speaker 2: before we part ways, before we get back into our lives,
Speaker 2: let me speak to your beautiful, beautiful heart. Tracy and
Speaker 2: I have known each other for of every long time
Speaker 2: that is my that is my family. That is my homie,
Speaker 2: my road dog, my family. The whole reason I'm in
Speaker 2: la is because ten years ago Tracy I was like
Speaker 2: debating moving and Tracy was like, just come and you
Speaker 2: could stay on our culture, like in our spirit bedroom.
Speaker 2: It was supposed to be maybe like a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: I was there for a couple of months because figuring
Speaker 2: out work and finance a lot. But that generosity, that
Speaker 2: is that is a that is maybe the defining word
Speaker 2: of Tracy is generous. She is a generous human being.
Speaker 2: And she is out here doing so many wonderful things
Speaker 2: in the community, so many wonderful programs around books, and
Speaker 2: it's also just shows up so fully for the people
Speaker 2: that she loves, her friends and her family, and I'm
Speaker 2: just so honored to be part of that. She's taught me.
Speaker 2: She's taught me what it means to be not just
Speaker 2: a good friend, but a great friend, because that is
Speaker 2: definitely what she is. I am here for the real
Speaker 2: mom talk, and I hope that for the moms listening,
Speaker 2: I hope that there was a little bit of a
Speaker 2: relief and listen if you love you know, pickups and
Speaker 2: talking to other moms go off. I love that for you.
Speaker 2: But if you don't, and if it's sometimes a struggle
Speaker 2: inside of the motherhood of all and the social politics
Speaker 2: of motherhood, I hope that Tracy's truth telling, her admissions,
Speaker 2: her sharing made you feel seen and heard and not
Speaker 2: alone in your journey and on your journey. Shout out
Speaker 2: to all the moms, because right it's not just you know,
Speaker 2: changing diapers and you know, breastfeeding. It's so much more.
Speaker 3: It's literally a human that you are trying to raise
Speaker 3: into a full on person, and you have to now
Speaker 3: navigate not only your life, but their life, and if
Speaker 3: there's more than one of them, their lives along with.
Speaker 2: You know, if you're married or your family, Like, there's
Speaker 2: just so much that you are holding in your brain.
Speaker 2: You know. My director for a Hoe Church is brilliant
Speaker 2: and also a mother, and I'm always just in awe
Speaker 2: as she navigates her newborn, her daughter and then also
Speaker 2: meet also like our show, I just hats off to
Speaker 2: all the moms. Hats off to you know, being being
Speaker 2: a mom and just that being your focus. Is a
Speaker 2: lot to do that and also you know, be in
Speaker 2: a partnership and also have a job like, I just
Speaker 2: want to take this moment to salute you and say
Speaker 2: that you are divine forces, truly, truly, truly, and you
Speaker 2: deserve the best this world has to offer. And so
Speaker 2: thank you for for the ways in which you love.
Speaker 2: Thank you for the ways and what you love. Let's
Speaker 2: get intell what we were key king about, which is
Speaker 2: I would saying this, watching come dry is better than
Speaker 2: watching paint dry, perhaps, but I still like Tracy. I'm
Speaker 2: not trying to watch come dry on somebody's face, but
Speaker 2: go off. I love that. If that is your kink
Speaker 2: and that's what you love, then I want that for you.
Speaker 2: But I do have questions, you know. I'm I'm I'm
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give you a towel, okay, even when I like,
Speaker 2: even if it's my especially if it's not come I'm
Speaker 2: I'm a hand with the towel. I'm gonna be that's
Speaker 2: so hot. And then I might hand with the towel. Now,
Speaker 2: who knows, I'm gonna look it up. I am not
Speaker 2: nasty some but I know somebody just went, yeah, I
Speaker 2: could be that nasty. I might look you come up,
Speaker 2: My lick might come up. Who knows. It depends on
Speaker 2: how I'm feeling and what the vibe is. But I
Speaker 2: will definitely give you a towel, and you know what
Speaker 2: I'm gonna do, Like if you if I'm hosting, I'm
Speaker 2: gonna warm that towel up. Yes, I'm gonna get some
Speaker 2: warm water on that towel and I'm gonna hand it
Speaker 2: over to you. I'm gonna let you wipe your beautiful face,
Speaker 2: wipe your beautiful stomach, because that's that's just me. But hey,
Speaker 2: if you want to do your paper with come and
Speaker 2: drying on your face, go off on the more kind
Speaker 2: of serious side one, I'm thankful for Tracy for having
Speaker 2: this conversation with me. It's a conversation I've been thinking
Speaker 2: about having on this podcast since its inception, but you know,
Speaker 2: always wanting to be one sensitive about when we talk
Speaker 2: about race and like who to talk about it with
Speaker 2: was also really important to me, and how we frame
Speaker 2: the conversation was really important to me, and Tracy just
Speaker 2: felt like the right person to brow to the subject with.
Speaker 2: We didn't have the full conversation. I'm sure as you
Speaker 2: were listening there are things that you might have been
Speaker 2: thinking or ways you might have been feeling, because when
Speaker 2: we talk about race, A lot can come up, especially
Speaker 2: when we talk about black and white relationships or sorry,
Speaker 2: just kind of any relationship opposite a white person. There
Speaker 2: is a lot to contend with inside of that. I
Speaker 2: think that one of my biggest takeaways and something that
Speaker 2: I has, you know, brought me peace as I navigate
Speaker 2: people's assumptions or their judgments, is that it is quite
Speaker 2: anti black to tell people they are black, to qualify
Speaker 2: their blackness, to me is anti black. If race is
Speaker 2: a social construct, a construct designed by those who identify
Speaker 2: as white, then for us inside of our own communities
Speaker 2: are black communities, communities of color, to abide by that,
Speaker 2: to enforce that is actually, to me, perpetuating white supremacy
Speaker 2: and that ideology. And I think it is actually not
Speaker 2: loving or compassionate of black folks to dismiss or discard
Speaker 2: them based off of whatever tenants or bullet points that
Speaker 2: you have created or fabricated or adopted. You know, there's
Speaker 2: that the black experience is our experience of blackness qualified
Speaker 2: by our trauma. I'm bringing that because I said, are
Speaker 2: you scared of cops? And that is I really want
Speaker 2: to kind of foozball that, which is like I don't
Speaker 2: think that our blackness should be qualified by our trauma.
Speaker 2: I think that's there and it's for sure part of
Speaker 2: our experience, but I don't know if that is a
Speaker 2: measure for your blackness or if it should be a
Speaker 2: measure or measure in totality. And by the way, as
Speaker 2: I'm saying all this, a lot of it is wet cement,
Speaker 2: and so I'm open to dialogue around it. So if
Speaker 2: you have thoughts, feel free to email me at tell
Speaker 2: me something messy at gmail dot com or d m
Speaker 2: me or hit me up on subsack. But that is
Speaker 2: my feeling is like, oh right, let's not qualify it
Speaker 2: based off of trauma, or at least not just trauma alone.
Speaker 2: That there is so much more to being black and
Speaker 2: so much it adds to it, and that the black
Speaker 2: experience doesn't get to be defined by anyone except the
Speaker 2: black person. You know, when we talk about Rachel dolaz
Speaker 2: Al like Gina black and that's just what it is.
Speaker 2: That's somebody who wants to be black or wanted to
Speaker 2: be black or whatever the fuck that was. So I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about heart, right, I was talking about people
Speaker 2: who are black, who have black people in their lineage,
Speaker 2: they are having in a black experience. They might not
Speaker 2: be having the majority experience that we're having, but they
Speaker 2: are having a black experience. And so how do we
Speaker 2: honor and respect that? Do we honor and respect that?
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like if somebody presents as white but
Speaker 2: has but it like has a black grandparent or has
Speaker 2: a black parent, but just happens to, you know, be lighter,
Speaker 2: and doesn't you know it's not immediately visibly perceived as black.
Speaker 2: Does that mean that their experience that they're that they're not.
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't know. I don't. I don't think
Speaker 2: it does. But I'm also working that out in real
Speaker 2: time and kind of expanding what my what my thoughts
Speaker 2: have been, or what my previous parameters have been, and
Speaker 2: can I push past it. I am curious about people
Speaker 2: who do chase whiteness and if there's space to wonder
Speaker 2: why they do it, because I get that you know
Speaker 2: that there is a default that if you are a
Speaker 2: black person, a brown person, Asian person with a white partner,
Speaker 2: there is a default belief that you are chasing whiteness
Speaker 2: or that you hate your people. And as Tracy and
Speaker 2: I said, but the white person is so woke and liberal, right,
Speaker 2: and that is not the case, right, Like the black
Speaker 2: person is not hating their race. They just fell in
Speaker 2: love with somebody and are pursuing love at base. That
Speaker 2: does not mean that there aren't black folks or people
Speaker 2: of color who are chasing whiteness, whether that is romantically
Speaker 2: or professionally or any other spaces like it happens, and
Speaker 2: I think that there is. Let's keep it on romance
Speaker 2: for now, but I think there is. I wish and
Speaker 2: hope to create room to wonder why, to wonder with
Speaker 2: compassion and curiosity and maybe empathy, what perhaps happened to
Speaker 2: that person in their history that made them feel as
Speaker 2: though they had to find safety in whiteness. And I
Speaker 2: will also say they're not safe in that. Like if
Speaker 2: you are chasing, if you're dating white people because you
Speaker 2: want safety, it's false. You're not gonna get it, baby,
Speaker 2: because you are at the end of the day, black.
Speaker 2: So you're not gonna get white safety because that that
Speaker 2: you're black. You know what I'm saying, Like, it's it's
Speaker 2: a it's a false chase, but it's a chase nonetheless,
Speaker 2: and something that some people have tricked themselves into believing
Speaker 2: is possible, And so I get curious about what are
Speaker 2: the ways in which you were possibly rejected? What are
Speaker 2: the experiences that you had that taught you that your
Speaker 2: skin and that your culture and that your ethnicity was
Speaker 2: dangerous or was not good enough? And how do you
Speaker 2: unlearn that? And is there space for compassion for those
Speaker 2: humans who are navigating that. I don't have the answers
Speaker 2: when it comes to interracial relationships. You know, there's such
Speaker 2: a concern for how the relationship looks. Does it present heterosexual,
Speaker 2: is it the same race? Is it monogamous? And if
Speaker 2: it's not those things, it opens itself for judgment. But
Speaker 2: I really want us to start asking or people being
Speaker 2: loved well? If you are monogamous or non monogoures or polyamorous, okay?
Speaker 2: Are you being loved well if you are in the
Speaker 2: same race relationship or in a racial relationship. If you're heterosexual,
Speaker 2: you're homosexual, your pan sexual, you're bisexual, you're asexual? Okay?
Speaker 2: Are you being loved well? I don't care how it presents.
Speaker 2: I care about your heart. I care about the hearts involved.
Speaker 2: Are you being loved well? And are you loving well?
Speaker 2: Is this a relationship that is growing you and adding
Speaker 2: to your life, and something that you're you're building your
Speaker 2: life with in a way that you're proud of, in
Speaker 2: a way that makes you happy, in a way that
Speaker 2: brings you peace, or is it something else. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know what more to say about that, but I
Speaker 2: guess i'll kind of end with Tracy said, there are
Speaker 2: people who are not gonna like you or think you're
Speaker 2: a phony no matter what you do or who you are.
Speaker 2: And then it uses example of Tony Moore, you know,
Speaker 2: in her early work being completely shat on, and I
Speaker 2: think that's true. You know, I think you have to
Speaker 2: ask yourself, does this have to do with me? Or
Speaker 2: is this other people's pain being projected onto me. We're
Speaker 2: never going to be free of other people's opinions, so
Speaker 2: I think you have to base your decision on you
Speaker 2: and what makes you happy. At the end of your life,
Speaker 2: when you're on your deathbed, are you going to be
Speaker 2: happy that you did what everyone else told you to
Speaker 2: do or you're gonna be happy that you did what
Speaker 2: you wanted to do. And I agree with Tracy, like,
Speaker 2: if you're like, listen, my family's my close circles perception
Speaker 2: of this or how they receive this is far more
Speaker 2: important to me then that is tea. But then also
Speaker 2: make sure you have your your boundaries or your guardrails
Speaker 2: that don't get to be altered by other people. You know, like,
Speaker 2: what do you want, Who do you want? Who do
Speaker 2: you want to love? What makes you feel loved, what
Speaker 2: makes you happy? Don't let other people dictate that for you.
Speaker 2: You decide what that means for you. And even if
Speaker 2: it looks like nothing you ain't never seen, you aint
Speaker 2: never read about, you ain't never heard about, you've never
Speaker 2: seen on TV or in a movie. Our media represents
Speaker 2: such a small, small, small facet of what is possible
Speaker 2: in your life. So don't base your life on the
Speaker 2: lack of imagination that runs rampant in our society and
Speaker 2: in our families. Base it off of you. All right,
Speaker 2: That's all I got to say. I love you so much.
Speaker 2: I'm so happy that Tracy was here. I love her
Speaker 2: so much, and I love you so much. I want
Speaker 2: to hear what you think or if you had any
Speaker 2: football moment, so you can email me at tell Me
Speaker 2: Something Messy at gmail dot com. Also, if you want
Speaker 2: more mess join me over at Substack Brandoncolodgodman dot substack
Speaker 2: dot com. Every week on Monday nights, I do Messy
Speaker 2: Mondays at night where I chat with different guests, you know,
Speaker 2: a compassionate space to talk about whatever the book we want.
Speaker 2: So you can check that out every Monday night, six
Speaker 2: pm Pacific, nine pm Eastern. If you become a paid subscriber,
Speaker 2: which is five dollars a month, you get access to
Speaker 2: all the Messy Goodies, including the live stream. But of
Speaker 2: course monthly essays are Substack exclusive podcast called Hey Everybody.
Speaker 2: Plus you can be part of the group chats if
Speaker 2: you want to be. But let me play you a
Speaker 2: little clip from the most recent essay I wrote, because
Speaker 2: sometimes I also do voiceovers of the essays, and this
Speaker 2: one was about Mother's Day and for those of us
Speaker 2: who are part of the Mother's Grief Club, which are
Speaker 2: humans who have physically or emotionally lost their month. So
Speaker 2: it's a just play it. Fourteen years ago, losing my
Speaker 2: grandmother physically and then my mother emotionally turned my world
Speaker 2: into broken glass, shards and blood everywhere. I thought I'd
Speaker 2: never be happy again. I thought i'd never rebuild. I
Speaker 2: thought I'd be alone and never loved again. You know
Speaker 2: that mother love, the one people write poetry about, dedicated
Speaker 2: wards to aspire to become. I thought no one would
Speaker 2: ever see me like my mother did, that my soul
Speaker 2: would never be known again, never be accepted. But this
Speaker 2: morning I woke up to beautiful messages from friends and
Speaker 2: chosen family letting me know how much they loved me,
Speaker 2: even a few people wishing me a happy Mother's Day.
Speaker 2: And I'm weeping with gratitude that my twenty four year
Speaker 2: old self, who could have built an impenetrable wall around
Speaker 2: their heart after experiencing such an earth size loss, didn't
Speaker 2: give up on love. Yeah, you know, I am always
Speaker 2: going to try and be, as I say, disruptively vulnerable
Speaker 2: and share the things that maybe are a little harder
Speaker 2: or things that we don't talk about, in hopes that
Speaker 2: if you are also navigating something similar, that you don't
Speaker 2: feel alone in it, that we all remember that we
Speaker 2: are not alone, that somebody out here understands some part
Speaker 2: of our journey and that we're okay. So I hope
Speaker 2: you'll check it out. You can find me on Instagram
Speaker 2: as well at Brandon Kyle Goodman. You can find our
Speaker 2: podcast at tell Me Something Messy and you can join
Speaker 2: our community on the Messy Monday's substack. When you subscribe,
Speaker 2: you'll get weekly posts, recommendations on sex and and so
Speaker 2: much more. Also, I want to hear from you, so
Speaker 2: send your topic ideas, your messy stories, your submissions, your
Speaker 2: game ideas to tell Me Something Messy at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: You can also call us at six six nine sixty
Speaker 2: nine Messy That is six six nine six ninety six
Speaker 2: three seven seven nine. Rate review and share this podcast
Speaker 2: with all your hoe and aspiring hoe friends. Really really
Speaker 2: helps the show out, all right. Until next time, ask
Speaker 2: about the politics of that dick before you make it spit,
Speaker 2: make sure they eat the kitty before they beat the kitty,
Speaker 2: before fuckation or succation. Communication. And in case you haven't
Speaker 2: heard it yet, today you are so deeply loved. I
Speaker 2: love you bye. Thank you so much for listening to
Speaker 2: tell Me Something Messy. If you all enjoyed the show,
Speaker 2: send the episode to someone else who might like it.
Speaker 2: Tell Me Something Messy was executive produced by Ali Pair Sorry,
Speaker 2: Gabrielle Collins and Yours truly. Our producer and editor is
Speaker 2: Vince de Johnny. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio and the
Speaker 2: Outspoken Network. Visit the iHeartRadio app, or anywhere you subscribe
Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.