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Speaker 1: Hello there, Welcome to another episode of the Chuck Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're watching on YouTube, listening on Spotify, Apple, or

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Speaker 1: wherever else you might listen, I appreciate you being there.

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Speaker 1: And oh, by the way, I now have a free

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Speaker 1: weekly sub stack. It's got to lead item and column

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Speaker 1: in it every Tuesday. It's going to drop tuesdays, the

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Speaker 1: one day we don't drop the podcast. So that's you

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Speaker 1: see what we did there, So I hope you go

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Speaker 1: over there and subscribe to it. In fact, it's something

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Speaker 1: you've heard me dabble in before, but it's a more

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Speaker 1: thorough analysis of how fragile the two major parties are

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Speaker 1: in this moment. I think both the Democratic Party and

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. You know, as divided as America is

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Speaker 1: between red and blue, right, we're polarized sort of between

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Speaker 1: two sides. The two actual political parties that represent red

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Speaker 1: and blue have never been weaker right and essentially more

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Speaker 1: and they've been dominated by cultural personality over the last

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Speaker 1: twenty years. When it just when it looks like they

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Speaker 1: need refurbishing, occult to personality rises up to sort of

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Speaker 1: paper over their problems. Think Barack Obama for the Democrats

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Speaker 1: or Donald Trump for the Republicans, and yet we are

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Speaker 1: watching around the world the movement where there's you know,

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Speaker 1: we've seen this, there's clearly massive political realignment taking place globally.

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Speaker 1: And what I saw take place in the UK that

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Speaker 1: I brought up a while ago about what happened to

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Speaker 1: the Tories there the fact that they, at least in

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Speaker 1: these last elections were not treated like one of the

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Speaker 1: two major parties. If you did not if you wanted

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Speaker 1: to vote against labor, you didn't vote for the Tories.

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Speaker 1: You voted for the Reform Party UK, the Nigel Farage Party,

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Speaker 1: if you will. And it's sort of a simple premise

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Speaker 1: to me, it's like, how weak are the two brands

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Speaker 1: of the major parties right now? Think about it this way.

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Speaker 1: If Donald Trump said today, we're going to disband the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party and replace it with the MAGA with a

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Speaker 1: new political party, the MAGA Party, who's with me, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to guess seventy percent of the elected Republicans would

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Speaker 1: sign up for the new party, and suddenly you would

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Speaker 1: have a complete exodus from the official club known as

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Speaker 1: the Republican Party. Similarly, if Pete Boutagic, Andy Basheer Gretchen

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Speaker 1: Whitmer AOC banded together and said, you know what, the

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Speaker 1: Democratic brand is broken. It is a mess. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: you know, it's not what it used to be. We

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Speaker 1: need a new left of center party in this country

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Speaker 1: that is focused on preserving the democracy and expanding and

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Speaker 1: thriving and updating it. We need a modern version of this.

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Speaker 1: So we're going to start a new party. And you know,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like taking the Donald Trump Nafta approach, right,

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Speaker 1: which is, can't stand nafta. So here's the new NAFTA.

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Speaker 1: I got rid of NAFTA because we don't call it

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Speaker 1: NAFTA anymore. But he kept NAFTA, he just renamed it, right.

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Speaker 1: That is, that is arguably how badly the two brands

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Speaker 1: are feeling these days, and how easily they could be

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Speaker 1: rebranded into a new party. And the fact is, when

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Speaker 1: I give you those two potential outcomes of how fragile

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Speaker 1: the two major parties really are, the only thing that

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Speaker 1: keeps them afloat is the duopoly they have on ballid

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Speaker 1: access in the fifty States. If they didn't have this

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Speaker 1: duopoly of ballid access, one or both of these parties

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Speaker 1: would have probably disappeared at least a couple of decades ago.

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Speaker 1: But because of the vehicle that they are for ballot

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Speaker 1: access that actually is connected to my guest today, Rob

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Speaker 1: sand the newest candidate for governor in the state of Iowa.

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Speaker 1: He's basically the Democrats great hope for winning statewide in

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Speaker 1: an actual red state. And I'll get more into Rob

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Speaker 1: sand in a minute. He's currently a statewide elect, the

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Speaker 1: only statewide elected Democrat in the state of Iowa. He's

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Speaker 1: been the state auditor for two years and Democrats have

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Speaker 1: been waiting for him, essentially to finally take the next step,

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Speaker 1: whether it was for a Senate seat or a good

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Speaker 1: natorial seat. And you will hear why he's a Democrat,

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Speaker 1: and it's simply because there is no other alternative. If

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Speaker 1: being an independent were a viable alternative, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: he would be there. And it's for me a reminder

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Speaker 1: of how fragile I think both parties are these days.

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Speaker 1: The Democratic brand is so bad in some places, that is,

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Speaker 1: it is more appealing to some Democrats to run as

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Speaker 1: an independent. Take the newest candidate for governor in the

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Speaker 1: state of Florida, Jason Pizzo, Do realize he was the

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Speaker 1: Democratic leader in the state Senate in fact, just a

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. So here he is technically a

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Speaker 1: leader of the Florida Democratic Party deciding to abandon the party. Now,

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Speaker 1: some of that may be personal, some of that may

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Speaker 1: have to do with personality clashes with the current head

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Speaker 1: of the Florida Democratic Party. You know, there's a little

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Speaker 1: bit of finger pointing than you know, because if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't get his way, that's why he left the party.

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Speaker 1: But the fact that he that he did, he has

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Speaker 1: some resources to do it. And I've told you I

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Speaker 1: think there's definitely Republican fatigue in the state of Florida,

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Speaker 1: a lot of dysantists fatigue in the state of Florida.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the Democratic Party brand is strong

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Speaker 1: enough to take advantage of it, but I do know

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Speaker 1: if there's a strong independent candidate, it could. It's fascinating

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Speaker 1: to me that the potential leading Democrat in Florida decided

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Speaker 1: to run as an independent, this Jason Pizzo, and the

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Speaker 1: leading independent candidate, a former Republican congressman and lobbyist named

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Speaker 1: David Jolly, decided to become a Democrat and run for

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Speaker 1: governor that way. So it'll be really interesting to see

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Speaker 1: if you're trying to fix the Democratic Party brand, is

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Speaker 1: being a former Republican turned Democrat the way to go

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Speaker 1: as a way to sort of moderate Isaac or central centrism.

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Speaker 1: It infused a little centrism in it and sort of

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Speaker 1: deleftify the brand in Florida left defy de leftified that

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Speaker 1: I inventor word there, or is it being a former

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Speaker 1: Democrat running as an independent? And in some ways we

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Speaker 1: were getting We're going to see both experience experiments take

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Speaker 1: place there on that front. In fact, I'm fascinated to

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Speaker 1: watch what's going on in some of the Senate races

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. You know, you've got John Cornyn,

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Speaker 1: the incumbent Republican senator from Texas who's being primary by

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Speaker 1: the state attorney general. Ken paxident accident is very maga

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Speaker 1: was just like Donald Trump escaped an impeachment attempt. He

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Speaker 1: was impeached but not convicted narrowly. Remember Texa pretty Republican states,

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Speaker 1: so quite a few Republicans voted to impeach him in

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Speaker 1: the state House, and quite a few Republicans voted to

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Speaker 1: convict him in the state Senate just not enough. So

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Speaker 1: you do have a pretty divided Republican Party. And it's

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Speaker 1: a fascinating problem that the National Republicans have with their

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Speaker 1: Texas primary. And this is actually a problem they're starting

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Speaker 1: to starting to percolate throughout the set, you know, as

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Speaker 1: more people debate. Is the Senate in play in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty six for Democrats? The map's terrible for Democrats, but

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Speaker 1: Republican INFI could actually put more seats in play for them,

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Speaker 1: just and we've seen It's not as if this movie

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Speaker 1: hasn't played before in the theaters. Right. In twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: Democrats overperformed in center races thanks to bad Republican nominees.

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Speaker 1: In twenty twenty two, Democrats overperformed in center races thanks

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Speaker 1: to bad nominees. In twenty twenty four, Democrats overperformed in

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Speaker 1: Senate races thanks to what say it with me? Bad

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Speaker 1: nominees on the Republican side of the aisle. So here

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Speaker 1: we go again. And so, if you're the National Republican

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Speaker 1: Party and your job is to prevent the Democrats from

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Speaker 1: winning the state of Texas, the best possible way to

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Speaker 1: do that is to ensure that John corn is the

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Speaker 1: Republican nominee. But what if John cornn is simply not

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Speaker 1: popular enough inside the Maga magafied version of the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party in the state of Texas to win that nomination

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Speaker 1: Ken Paxton, if he's a Republican nominee, is makes that

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Speaker 1: seat a lot more vulnerable to the Democrats winning. So

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Speaker 1: if you're the national Republicans, do you convince John Corny

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Speaker 1: to pull at Lisa Murkowski and just simply bolt the primary,

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Speaker 1: run as an independent and try to win a three

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Speaker 1: way race in Texas? I know, on one hand, you

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Speaker 1: can think, well, that's crazy. On the other hand, John

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Speaker 1: Cornan the only shot he may have to win this

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Speaker 1: seat is if he leaves the Republican Party promises that

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Speaker 1: he will cauc us with the Republicans. Like Lisa Murkowski, right,

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Speaker 1: she knew she couldn't win a Republican primary in Alaska,

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Speaker 1: but she also knew she was more popular with independence

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Speaker 1: and with Democrats and with enough Republicans that she could

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Speaker 1: easily win a general and she did it as a

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Speaker 1: ride in and her last name is Murkowski. I still

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Speaker 1: always find that it's like, you know, why is she untouchable?

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Speaker 1: Why can't Trump get rid of her because she's so

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Speaker 1: politically popular in Alaska that with a Murkowski with a

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Speaker 1: three syllable last name that isn't quite easy to spell,

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Speaker 1: she won us a ride in Okay. That's your mic drop,

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Speaker 1: m u Rkowski. When you if your last name was

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Speaker 1: Smith and you ran as a ride in not that

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Speaker 1: impressive Markowski another story. So, which brings me back to Texas.

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Speaker 1: I think the real dilemma there either they either because

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Speaker 1: I don't think Cornin is ever going to win this primary,

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Speaker 1: and what it's going to take for him to win

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Speaker 1: this primary is probably going to divide the Republican Party

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Speaker 1: so much that it may it may become an untenable

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Speaker 1: situation in either direction. A three way race suddenly who

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Speaker 1: knows right? It may? It may, you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it works the way everybody thinks it works, that

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Speaker 1: two Republicans on the bat automatically will help the Democrat there.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that's the case. I think Ken Paxton

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Speaker 1: would do more to get the Democrats a chance of

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Speaker 1: Texas than a three way race would. But that's the

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Speaker 1: type of conversation that I think Republicans should be having

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Speaker 1: with themselves in Washington. Of course, it all matters is

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Speaker 1: who's making these decisions. If this is Trump's polit team,

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Speaker 1: well they'd rather have trumpy people. But if this is

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Speaker 1: say John Thune's political team and Tim Scott, who's the

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Speaker 1: current rs C chair, well they may have they may

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Speaker 1: have a different, different point of view. But I do

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Speaker 1: find what's happening in Texas now to be something that

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Speaker 1: it could lead to. You know, again, if Cornan's goal

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Speaker 1: is to win the Senate seat, it may be his

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Speaker 1: best path to win the Senate seats to leave the party,

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Speaker 1: run as an independent and promise to caucus with the Republicans.

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Speaker 1: You can't just not. I do think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: trying to keep your you know, if you don't, you

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Speaker 1: don't go promise to go there, then you would eliminate

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Speaker 1: potential Republicans that might vote for you. But I think

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Speaker 1: that would likely be and especially Colin Allred's the Democratic nominee.

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Speaker 1: Colin Allred ran a race that basically said, hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: a John Cornyan Democrat. You know, all he did was

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Speaker 1: praise John Cornyan. So I think he'd have a harder

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Speaker 1: time being able to differentiate himself from Cornyan, and Cornyn

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Speaker 1: may may actually benefit from having having a third candidate

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Speaker 1: in the race that's done nothing but praise him. So

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Speaker 1: it is, it is I think something worth watching there

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Speaker 1: is I've you know, I have a few other campaign

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Speaker 1: nuggets I want to share North You know, the Republican

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Speaker 1: Party is dealing with too many crowded primaries. With the

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Speaker 1: Senate races. We talked about Texas, there's North Carolina where

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Speaker 1: now Laura Trump is once again thinking about wanting to

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Speaker 1: be in the Senate. Maybe she primaries Tom Tillis. Tom

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Speaker 1: Tillis is somebody who's who's seen is quite vulnerable to

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Speaker 1: the MAGA wing of the Republican Party. He's another one

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Speaker 1: where is Pat McCrory's experience not being able to come

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Speaker 1: even close to beating Ted Budd. He was the non

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Speaker 1: Maga Republican. Ted Budd was the Trump endorsed candidate, and

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Speaker 1: we saw what happened there. If Tillis, you know, is

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Speaker 1: it in the best interest of the Republican Party in

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Speaker 1: the Senate, if they're trying to keep that receipt to

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Speaker 1: have Tom Tillis run as an independent. He's another one. Again,

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Speaker 1: the ballot access laws are not easy in North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: Ditto with Texas to run as a third party or

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Speaker 1: as an independent. Don't get me wrong, but in both

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Speaker 1: of these cases, and I'd throw in Bill Cassidy in Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: where the governor is working with the president to try

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Speaker 1: to find a Republican primary challenger to build Cassidy. Julia Letlow,

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Speaker 1: a congresswoman, is the latest idea being floated. Would Cassidy

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Speaker 1: be better off running as an independent? So you know

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Speaker 1: it is. It is again my bigger theme being you know,

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Speaker 1: you have two You have two party brands here that

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Speaker 1: are broken. You have two party brands that I think

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Speaker 1: are very distrusted by the public. You have two party

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Speaker 1: brands that it where it may be easier running away

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Speaker 1: from that party brand even if you agree with seventy

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Speaker 1: percent of what that party brand stands for and running

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Speaker 1: as an independent if you're a Democrat in Florida, if

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Speaker 1: you're a Democrat in Iowa, if you're a Republican now

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Speaker 1: on mega Republican in Texas, or a non mega Republican

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Speaker 1: in North Carolina. So I definitely think it's something to

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Speaker 1: watch for. There a couple other news topics from the

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Speaker 1: last few days, and I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about here. One is, of course,

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Speaker 1: this Biden book. The excerpts are coming out the book.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have Jake tapperon pretty soon, who's co

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Speaker 1: author with Alex Thompson of this of this book about

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Speaker 1: uh that is about the Biden cover up? Was it

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Speaker 1: a cover up? You know? Were there people inside the

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Speaker 1: West wing not telling the truth or being disingenuous when

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Speaker 1: people when people like myself would inquire about why Biden

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Speaker 1: couldn't do this event or that event, or was afraid

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Speaker 1: of doing a Super Bowl interview, all of those things.

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Speaker 1: You know that we all saw with our own eyes

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Speaker 1: that he clearly there was something foot. But of course,

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Speaker 1: you know, you you're only as good as as your

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Speaker 1: actual sourcing there, and it's pretty clear a bunch of

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Speaker 1: aids did did their best to prove people from knowing

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Speaker 1: any truths right, keeping cabinet secretaries away from him, keeping

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Speaker 1: Biden away. But there's something as much as that. I

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Speaker 1: think it's terrible that the Bidens are once again trying

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Speaker 1: to come out and defend themselves, putting themselves before the party.

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Speaker 1: You know, they ought to take a page from from

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Speaker 1: George W. Bush. Right after Obama won, after there was.

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Speaker 1: It was clear the Bush brand was done inside the

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Speaker 1: Republican Party. He didn't go out there to try to

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Speaker 1: fight for his legacy. He went and took up painting right,

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Speaker 1: and in many ways by not trying to be out

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Speaker 1: there engaging every day in his legacy, and thanks to

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump, his legacy is oddly improved in the minds

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Speaker 1: of many voters. Certainly his personal legacy, there's still a

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Speaker 1: lot of people question whether, you know, the greatest mistake

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Speaker 1: made and you know, since Vietnam was the Iraq War,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think anybody that that isn't going to change.

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Speaker 1: And what certainly his character and is in his sort

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Speaker 1: of how he you know, how he treated the institution

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Speaker 1: of the presidency as something that has only grown with

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Speaker 1: time and not trying to make, you know, make people

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable by coming back out to defend himself and to say, no,

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Speaker 1: you know, my own popularity is wrong, et cetera, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: So I do think that the bidens ought to take up.

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Speaker 1: But I get human nature wanting to defend yourself. But

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Speaker 1: there's something about these these books where you're gonna have

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Speaker 1: all these people make anonymous claims that well, they were

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Speaker 1: hiding it, or they were doing this, or they were

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Speaker 1: doing that. Well, then shame on you. You know you

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Speaker 1: own this. If you believe the country is at risk

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Speaker 1: of slipping in the democracy, shame on you and all

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Speaker 1: of these anonymous aids, and frankly all the people that

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Speaker 1: work for him that are now they tell us. This

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Speaker 1: is one of those. I think it's Brian Curtis of

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Speaker 1: at the Ringer Is dubs these stories in the sports world.

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Speaker 1: Right every time somebody gets traded, you're like, oh something,

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Speaker 1: and then like right after the person gets traded, then

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, the beat writer for said team

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Speaker 1: writes the big tell all story about how the relationship

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Speaker 1: between player and the ownership totally broke down, and he

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Speaker 1: calls it. Now they tell us, and this is a

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Speaker 1: now they tell us, right, So now all these Biden

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Speaker 1: aids who didn't say a word for two and a

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Speaker 1: half years are suddenly now speaking anonymously to folks. It's

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Speaker 1: it is or early aids coming out. Where were you

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Speaker 1: at the time when many of us were pointing out

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Speaker 1: he seems to be too old to be running for president.

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Speaker 1: I know I did it quite a bit publicly. People

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Speaker 1: like David Ignatius. And you know what many of those

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Speaker 1: same aides did who are now talking to these authors,

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Speaker 1: They would push back privately and publicly with me and

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Speaker 1: others and say, no, no, no, it's fine, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: my interactions with them are fine. This is just exaggeration.

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Speaker 1: You're buying into a right wing narrative. So you know,

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Speaker 1: these people have talked about both sides of their mouth.

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Speaker 1: So in many ways, I think this Biden book is

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Speaker 1: only going to not just undermine Biden, but I think

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Speaker 1: make it toxic for anybody that worked for Biden, because

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Speaker 1: then it becomes where were you, How did you participate

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Speaker 1: in the cover up? Pete Bootage? This may mean something

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Speaker 1: for you. You know you were a cabinet secretary. A

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Speaker 1: You're going to now tell us, yeah, I didn't have

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Speaker 1: much interaction with him. Well, then why didn't you say something?

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Speaker 1: I had a cabinet secretary tell me that they had

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Speaker 1: no interaction with them, and wondered about that. I had

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Speaker 1: that off the record. I've after Biden quit, I've since

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Speaker 1: shared it with people. Still not going to share who

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Speaker 1: the cabinet secretary was, because that's not my I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to you know, I believe in keeping your word as

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Speaker 1: a journalist, and it was an off the record as

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Speaker 1: far as being told to me. And I think it's

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Speaker 1: up to that person to decide whether to speak out

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Speaker 1: or not. But I think it's a question anybody who

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Speaker 1: worked directly for Biden, So Gina Ramondo if she thinks

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Speaker 1: about running for president, Pete bootajej all of these cabinet

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Speaker 1: secretaries are now going to have to answer for all

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Speaker 1: of this. And I do wonder if it's going to

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Speaker 1: make anybody that touches Biden persona non grata, not just

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Speaker 1: anybody directly in the Biden world. As far as you know,

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Speaker 1: it could be the way, you know, anybody touching Carter

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Speaker 1: was sort of exiled for decades in the Democratic Party

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Speaker 1: in the eighties and nineties. It really wasn't until Obama

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Speaker 1: that sort of parts of Carter world were resurrected in

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Speaker 1: a positive light inside the Democratic Party. That's some nearly,

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Speaker 1: you know, nearly thirty years later. That's probably the best

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Speaker 1: Biden world can hope for, is that they need to

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Speaker 1: the generation that lived through this mess will have to

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Speaker 1: go away before they maybe get a second chance at

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Speaker 1: the historical record. A lot of it. Those are going

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Speaker 1: to depend on on what the Trump presidency looks like

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Speaker 1: three years from now and what kind of impact it has.

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Speaker 1: Because everybody who worked for Biden, and Joe Biden himself

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Speaker 1: to me, is directly responsible for everything Trump does in

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Speaker 1: the second term, right They their behavior and their actions

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Speaker 1: led us to this place, their contributors to the place

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Speaker 1: we are at. So they better hope it's a successful

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Speaker 1: second term for Trump because they own a piece of

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Speaker 1: that failure too, and the recovery for America from its

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Speaker 1: economic what could be an economic disaster. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: we're escaping short term problems here by this pause with China,

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Speaker 1: but let's be honest. Already his management of the economy

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Speaker 1: has cost a lot of people, a lot of people money,

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Speaker 1: and it is still going to create inflation. So it is.

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Speaker 1: It is now. He's already done damage. The question is

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Speaker 1: can he mitigate the damage he's done or is more

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Speaker 1: coming He's just delayed when that happens. But mark my words,

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Speaker 1: if you're not happy with any part of this second

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Speaker 1: term and you're angry, some of that anger belongs to

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Speaker 1: the Bidens, and some of that anger belongs to the

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Speaker 1: people who had no guts to speak out when it mattered,

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Speaker 1: and waited till talking to an author of a book. Finally,

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Speaker 1: there's the story of the DNC in this issue of

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Speaker 1: David Hogg. Oh, of course, was an activist born out

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Speaker 1: of the Parkland shooting in Florida. I'll be honest, it's

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Speaker 1: very personal to myself. I have my own connections to

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Speaker 1: somebody who's in that school. Uh when when when it

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Speaker 1: when it happened, So I have a lot of personal

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Speaker 1: empathy for anybody that went through that, you know. I

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Speaker 1: think the way David Hogg has conducted his politics is

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Speaker 1: hard to It is hard to it's hard to to

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Speaker 1: see him as a member of the leadership of the

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Speaker 1: d n C considering what the role of the d

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Speaker 1: n C is now. There's obviously people that are unhappy

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Speaker 1: with him that as vice chair of the d n

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Speaker 1: C he got elected vice chair of DNC, that he

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Speaker 1: now wants to work with a group to primary essentially

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Speaker 1: democratic incumbents in very blue areas who he believes are

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Speaker 1: stagnant right who need generational change. In all of this,

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Speaker 1: this has created an uproar that a member of the

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Speaker 1: DNC leadership is talking about primarying elected Democrats, and I

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Speaker 1: understand that criticism. It was like, wait a minute, you

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Speaker 1: can work on the outside, you chose to work on

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Speaker 1: the inside. When you choose to work on the inside,

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Speaker 1: you're choosing to work with the Democrats that have been

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Speaker 1: elected and help new Democrats get elected, not necessarily purge

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Speaker 1: the party from the inside. So I have empathy for

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Speaker 1: the criticism of Hawk. But now they're trying to create

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Speaker 1: a So apparently now they've come up with a instead

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Speaker 1: of instead of forcing the situation about Okay, you've got

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Speaker 1: to make a decision, David Hog, are youre going to

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Speaker 1: work on the outside or work on the inside, they've

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Speaker 1: come up with a convoluted It feels like a pollit

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Speaker 1: bureau decision. Well, we've got to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: get rid of this person, but we don't want to

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Speaker 1: make it look like it's politics. We want to make

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Speaker 1: it look like it's a technicality. So in this case,

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Speaker 1: there was a challenge. They's supposed to be gender equity

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Speaker 1: in the leadership of the DNC. Well after when the

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Speaker 1: DNC chair won and it turned out to be a

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Speaker 1: man not a woman, it should have triggered that one

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Speaker 1: of the vice chair can't you know that there was

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Speaker 1: going to be gender equity on the vice chair level

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Speaker 1: and there was not, so there's been a complaint file.

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Speaker 1: So now the DNC has decided they have to redo

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Speaker 1: this vice chair race. So all they've done is turned

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Speaker 1: and David Haggas said, well, this is really about them

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Speaker 1: being angry at me. They're just using this technicality to

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Speaker 1: force a to force a new vote. Malcolm Kinyata, who

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Speaker 1: is the other person elected vice chair, clearly doesn't like

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Speaker 1: that he's been attached to the David Hog controversy. He's

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Speaker 1: up said about this, let me just tell you something.

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Speaker 1: I think that DNC looks ridiculous right now, just effing ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: It's behaving like a pollet bureau and not like an

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Speaker 1: actual functioning political party. In a democracy, a pollet bureau

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Speaker 1: would come up with a convoluted technicality to purge somebody

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Speaker 1: from the leadership because it's making other people unhappy, rather

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Speaker 1: than actually dealing with the issue straight up front. So

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Speaker 1: what they've done is they're actually going to make a

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Speaker 1: martyr of Hogg. You know, like I said, I'm not

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Speaker 1: sitting here. I don't I don't think what Hog was

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Speaker 1: doing was was you know, I thought it was I

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Speaker 1: thought it was poor form. I thought it was in

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Speaker 1: bad taste right to be elected member of the leadership

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Speaker 1: and then work to sort of purge Democrats. But I

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Speaker 1: also think the way this entire episode is being treated,

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Speaker 1: how the chair is dealing with this, how it's turned

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Speaker 1: into this back room thing, only makes the whole party

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Speaker 1: look even less organized than we all thought they were.

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Speaker 1: Clearly there's a leadership vacuum. This has not been a

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Speaker 1: good start for the new DNC chair, Ken Martin. I

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Speaker 1: can tell you there's quite a few Democrats I hear

429
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 1: from who are wondering why the chair of the Wisconsin Party,

430
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 1: Ben Wickler, who now is leaving there, who's had a

431
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 1: ton of success, why he was an elected chair, and

432
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: openly wondering would he be allowed this mess to go on?

433
00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 1: And I think, for whatever reason, Ken Martin is not

434
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 1: taking a strong hand on this, feels like he's almost letting,

435
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 1: letting the letting insiders get involved too much on this.

436
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: Either way, it looks ridiculous. It's going to make a

437
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,440
Speaker 1: martyr out of David Hogg. And either he's realized he's

438
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,240
Speaker 1: elected again, which is talk about major with with everybody

439
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: knowing this giant amounts of egg on their faces, or

440
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 1: they don't, and it looks like a bizarre party purge.

441
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 1: And all you've done is is thrown fuel at the

442
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: fire of the of the insurgent class wanting to get

443
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: rid of the establishment. So it is one of those

444
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 1: massively unforced errors. And leave it to the DNC to

445
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 1: somehow get in its own way while they have this

446
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 1: target rich environment in what has been a sort of

447
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 1: incompetence on the Trump administration, whether it's in government cutting,

448
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,439
Speaker 1: managing the economy, or all these very shady deals that

449
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: seem to be taking place in the new crypto capital

450
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: of the world in the Arabian Peninsula there. And yet

451
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 1: it's the Democrats shooting at each other, just making a mockery, frankly,

452
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: of their own party here. And they're going hog wild

453
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: in all the wrong ways. All right, So coming up,

454
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 1: I got Rob sand And here's why you need to

455
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 1: care about this race. This is easily the best chance

456
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: Democrats have of truly having a red steak governor to

457
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: stand next to Andy Basheer and Laura Kelly. Andy Bsher

458
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: of Kentucky, Lora Kelly of Kansas. This will easily be

459
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: their best shot at it. And I'll tell you this,

460
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: if he wins, Iowa is going to be the first

461
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: in the nation CAUCUSUS. They will get their place back

462
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: if Sand proves that they can win in this environment,

463
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: and it will be a better environment for him to

464
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,159
Speaker 1: run in than he ran in twenty two. If he

465
00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: wins that race, it will put Iowa in first in

466
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 1: the nation, which will be really good news if you're

467
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: Pete Boutagid's although as I pointed out, I do think

468
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,120
Speaker 1: his Biden baggage is going to get heavier and heavier

469
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: as he goes about. But take a listen to Rob Sand,

470
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 1: because this is a guy who's sort of you'll hear it,

471
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: kind of reluctant Democrat. And you know, previous episode I

472
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 1: had Jasmine Crockett, who's she's not a reluctant Democrat, but

473
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: she's got a point of view of how the party

474
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 1: should be messaging. Now I think you'll hear a different

475
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: point of view from Rob Sand, So be curious what

476
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:36,640
Speaker 1: you think. Of course, let me know at ask Chuck

477
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:39,400
Speaker 1: at the Chuck podcast dot com. And with that I'll

478
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: sneak in a break and afterwards you get Rob sand.

479
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: Well.

480
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: Joining me now is somebody who is a new candidate

481
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: for office, at least a top statewide office. It is

482
00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: Rob sand He's been the two term democraticly elected state

483
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: auditor of Iowa, and he's now announced that he's running

484
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 1: for governor. And to timestamp this, I'm interviewing him about

485
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 1: four hours after he unveiled his public campaign for governor. So, Robier,

486
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: you've been arguably looking to this moment for a few

487
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: years now. How does it feel now that you jumped

488
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 1: in the water.

489
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: I'm excited for this moment, Chuck. I think what really

490
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 2: one of the things that really crystallized it and made

491
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 2: it clear that it was necessary was the gutting of

492
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,159
Speaker 2: the Auditor's office bill that took effect I think about

493
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 2: not quite two years ago, where the Iowa Legislature and

494
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 2: the governor literally made it legal for state agencies and

495
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 2: departments in Iowa to hide documents from the state Auditor's office.

496
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,960
Speaker 2: It's the kind of thing that just makes you go okay, like.

497
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: What do you believe it was a direct partisan attack

498
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: on your office meeting You had had a lot of

499
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: success running, you know, doing public corruption, and because you're

500
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: a Democrat and the legislature's Republican. How much did that

501
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: factor into the defunding of your office?

502
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,919
Speaker 2: I would I would say this, it was really more

503
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,199
Speaker 2: of a question of being serious about trying to do

504
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 2: the job and do public service, as opposed to being

505
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 2: one of the insiders that's like, oh, you don't want

506
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 2: me to dig into that program, well don't worry about it.

507
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 2: Then I won't because you told me not to, and hey,

508
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 2: we're all friends, right, you know that kind of stuff,

509
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: because I wouldn't go along. I wouldn't I wouldn't do

510
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:34,280
Speaker 2: the go along to get along kind of thing. And

511
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,120
Speaker 2: so I think that, yes, it was easier for them

512
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: to do it because I was a Democrat, But if

513
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,560
Speaker 2: I had been a Republican who was really serious about

514
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 2: public service not politics, they would have tried. I just

515
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 2: don't know if they could have gotten enough majorities to

516
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 2: go along with it, because we had bipartisan opposition in

517
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,480
Speaker 2: the Iowa House to it as it was.

518
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: Right, well, I would imagine. I mean, you know, again,

519
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: public coruption is always one of those things that there's

520
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 1: usually pieces of both parties that are that are bipartisan

521
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 1: in favor of strengthening public corruption. You know, offices that

522
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: target public coruption, and then those that believe for a

523
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 1: variety of reasons, some may be nefarious and some may

524
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,040
Speaker 1: be me me maybe intellectually honest that oh, it gets

525
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: in the way of business, right, it gets in the

526
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: way of regulation, or it gets in the way of

527
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,400
Speaker 1: government service. So I buy that. But let me ask

528
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: you this. I think that I think your job being

529
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 1: auditor to me would both be interesting and also though

530
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 1: sometimes a negative place to come from. And here's my

531
00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 1: and here's where I'm curious where if you the auditor's

532
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: job is to find you know, to find ways fraud

533
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: and abuse, right essentially right, And so if you don't

534
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,760
Speaker 1: find it, does it mean everything is going well or

535
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: you didn't do a good enough job looking for it? Right? Like,

536
00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a never like. I don't feel

537
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: like you could ever feel satisfied that you're doing the job.

538
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: You know that you've you've found every thing, because I

539
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:03,719
Speaker 1: think the public is probably like me, a little bit

540
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,240
Speaker 1: cynical assuming well, there's always a little bit of public corruption.

541
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 1: The question is are you finding it all?

542
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 2: Yeah? And I think that's there's going to be a

543
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: great piece for this, which is a great answer for that.

544
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 2: Here we uncovered a record amount of misspent money in

545
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: my first term, and the answer to that from politicians

546
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 2: in Des Moines was to go, hey, we got to

547
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: stop this guy. He's actually doing his job.

548
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,959
Speaker 1: This is great. Should we reform our practices?

549
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:29,280
Speaker 2: Right?

550
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: You know, right?

551
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, you'd think that that would be the answer. But

552
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: that's the difference, and that to me is the like

553
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 2: I think of the heart of this campaign. It's really

554
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 2: the question of public service and government trying to serve

555
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 2: all Iowans versus politics and having it serve insiders and

556
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: special interests. And I don't think that you could have

557
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: a clearer example of that than literally them looking at

558
00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,240
Speaker 2: us doing our job really well and going we got

559
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 2: to slow him down.

560
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: Did you think about out not running as a Democrat

561
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: but running as an independent?

562
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: Look, I guess i'd say this people who know me.

563
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you asked that question, because people who

564
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: know me know that I'm not satisfied with a two

565
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 2: choice system, and I think it's important that we talk

566
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 2: about that. The bottom line is most of us have

567
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: experienced this in the ballot booth, where we look at

568
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: our options and we see Democrat, Independent, Republican, and we

569
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 2: see the independent and we like the Independent, but we're

570
00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: also like, man, if I vote for the Independent, I

571
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 2: know I'm just throwing my vote away. And there's that

572
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 2: frustration of just sort of the being trapped right, being

573
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 2: a prisoner of this system while we are also participants

574
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 2: in it. That's the bottom line. It's the same question

575
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 2: for a candidate. So I would love to have a

576
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 2: system in Iowa where independent candidates can actually get elected

577
00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 2: very easily, but we're gonna have to change how the

578
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: system works before we get there.

579
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,239
Speaker 1: How would you change that in Iowa to do that?

580
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:02,280
Speaker 1: I mean, look, I take your point here, and yet

581
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: I would just sort of warn you and other people.

582
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: I bet you the Tories didn't think that they were

583
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: ever going to get knocked out from their top two

584
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,840
Speaker 1: status in political parties in the UK, and guess what

585
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: they just saw happen to them. And the Democratic brand

586
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,400
Speaker 1: is quite weak, particularly in the agricultural Midwest, even at

587
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: a time when it's not as if the Republican brand

588
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: is doing great. It's just, you know, they've succeeded by

589
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:31,280
Speaker 1: not being the Democratic party brand. You, being an auditor,

590
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: I would argue it's better to be an independent than

591
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: to be a member of either political party, right to

592
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: feel like you could depletely function in that. But again

593
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: that's why I asked that question.

594
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 2: Sure, but if you do that, then you get back

595
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 2: to the same thing, which is, if I run as

596
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:48,480
Speaker 2: an independent, the Republicans go out and they collect petitions

597
00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: to have somebody run as a Democrat, and they have

598
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: someone registered as a Democrat, or they find some absolutely

599
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 2: furious Democrat who's so mad at me for running as

600
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 2: an independent, and then you've got a three way race

601
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 2: and we all know what happens. I am the spoiler,

602
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,440
Speaker 2: or maybe it's the Democrat that's the spoiler, but either way,

603
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,480
Speaker 2: so before it begins, because of the way we structure elections, right,

604
00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 2: So the answer to how you do that in Iowa

605
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: is again like and well, actually I want to go

606
00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: to a different piece of your point here about the

607
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 2: Tories and sort of being a favored party. This is

608
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 2: supposed to be about solving problems. This is government is

609
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 2: supposed to be about people coming together and deciding, Okay,

610
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: what do we need to address this issue? How do

611
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: we address that issue? So many of our founders warned

612
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 2: us watch out for factionalism, watch out for partisanship. And

613
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 2: we are at the point here where people actually say,

614
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,360
Speaker 2: you know, like, oh, well, you know, you'd have to

615
00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 2: be careful about that, because what if then you're not

616
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: electing a Democrat. Well what if we were actually solving

617
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 2: lots and lots of problems, but we were having people

618
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 2: with a different letter behind their name, whether it's Republican

619
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: or independent or anything else do it. I'm here for

620
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: solving problems, and I think as long as we have

621
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 2: a system that allows elected officials and candidates to sort

622
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 2: of say, well, I don't have to solve your problems,

623
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 2: as long as I can convince you that so and

624
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,680
Speaker 2: so over here is worse than me. I don't think

625
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 2: we're solving in a lot of problems because there's no

626
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: incentive to do it. So I think your answer to

627
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: be more specific if you want the more specific answer.

628
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 2: Right now, in the state of Iowa, independent voters are

629
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 2: not allowed to participate in primaries that their tax dollars

630
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 2: pay for. I think that's wrong. So I think we

631
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 2: should have a single, open primary, and then I'd love

632
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 2: to see approval voting on the second side of that

633
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 2: for three or four or five candidates. So here's three

634
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 2: to five that make it through to the general vote

635
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:37,400
Speaker 2: for all of them that you approve of. There is

636
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 2: no rank choice. The tabulation is available automatically. It's easy.

637
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 1: And then the general is a fifty percent. Whoever gets

638
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,839
Speaker 1: fifty percent wins or just top vote getter in your just.

639
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,680
Speaker 2: Top vote getter. So this is what Fargo, North Dakota does.

640
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 2: You have four or five candidates in the general election,

641
00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: and you, as the voter, you can vote for all

642
00:34:58,560 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: of them or one of them, just however many you

643
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 2: approve of, and so whoever as the most votes still

644
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 2: wins the election, plain and simple.

645
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, that seems rational and logical, which will be mean?

646
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 1: So it could never succeed, right, never succeed You don't

647
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: have the duopoly? Is it going to allow for it

648
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: to happen? So describe your relationship with the Democratic Party.

649
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: You've been a Democrat or your whole life. But is

650
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,160
Speaker 1: it you know, if you win, is it a victory

651
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 1: for the Democratic Party or is it a victory for independence?

652
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:29,439
Speaker 1: In your mind?

653
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: In Iowa, So I was registered as an independent when

654
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 2: I first registered to vote. I did register as a

655
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:38,400
Speaker 2: Democrat soon after that because I realized in order to

656
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 2: vote in the primary, I had to pick my poison.

657
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 2: The differences. I still talk about the fact that it

658
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 2: was poison that I picked.

659
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: Do you still feel that way? I mean, I look,

660
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: I feel there are political parties because I'm a character voter.

661
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 1: I really am a character and a problem solver voter.

662
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,840
Speaker 1: And I'm lucky enough to live in a state in

663
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,360
Speaker 1: Virginia where I it's no party registration. You get to

664
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,400
Speaker 1: pick which you vote in. You know, you pick for

665
00:36:02,440 --> 00:36:05,279
Speaker 1: that cycle, but you get to pick whichever one you want.

666
00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:07,600
Speaker 1: It's a little a little more choice. So I certainly

667
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,240
Speaker 1: as a journalist, like that too, because you can't pigeonhold

668
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: me by looking at my voting record always always voting

669
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: Democrat or always voting Republican. But I like that just

670
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:18,600
Speaker 1: as a voter, and I assume more voters like that.

671
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:21,719
Speaker 1: But it does sound like you're you're a reluctant partisan.

672
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 2: I'm a public servant. I live in a system where

673
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 2: in order to be effective, just like when I was

674
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 2: a voter in my early twenties, I have to choose

675
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: one or the other. And so that's what I've done.

676
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 2: If I win, Is it a victory for the Democratic Party,

677
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 2: that would be for other Democrats to decide. I've never

678
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 2: been to the DNC. I'm clear about what I believe.

679
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: I'm clear about the fact that I'm a Democrat because

680
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,240
Speaker 2: I have to pick one or the other. I think.

681
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:56,160
Speaker 2: I think that if I win, then maybe that helps

682
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 2: other people figure out what's effective out there. But I'm

683
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: not doing it. I want to be a public servant

684
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 2: to the whole state of Iowa. I don't want to

685
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: be a leader for a political party. In my time

686
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 2: at the State Ouitor's office, we had Democrats, Independents, and

687
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: Republicans always in senior leadership. I actually appointed people to

688
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 2: the most senior positions in the office who had made

689
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: campaign contributions to my opponent from twenty eighteen. I think

690
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 2: it's important to do that because do.

691
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: You plan on doing that if you win this time?

692
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 2: I would absolutely do that. If I win, Yeah, I

693
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: would want to have a bipartisan camp at one percent

694
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 2: or try that may I'd like to have some independence, yeah.

695
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: Somebody that may be a contributor to the venture Republican nominee.

696
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:38,840
Speaker 1: And I saw that congressation.

697
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier to find, you know, You've got

698
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 2: a bigger circle to cast from if you just say

699
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 2: a voter or a supporter or a registered Republican. But

700
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 2: if if I found someone who was a donor who

701
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 2: also was well qualified to do the work, that wouldn't

702
00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,720
Speaker 2: stop me. It hasn't stopped me in the past.

703
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: So let's talk about You know, you're running because you

704
00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 1: think the direction of Iowa has been going in the

705
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: wrong direction. So let's talk about that. You know, from

706
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,320
Speaker 1: the outside, the biggest change that I've noticed that Governor

707
00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: Reynolds did had to do with school funding.

708
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: Yep.

709
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,360
Speaker 1: And it's certainly when you're on the ground in Iowa,

710
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 1: when you when you get past the sort of the

711
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:21,439
Speaker 1: the red versus Blue the national conversation and you ask

712
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: what's going on in Iowa? That's usually the first issue

713
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 1: I hear about? Is that still the first issue you

714
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:27,360
Speaker 1: hear about?

715
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: It's that in its rising costs, which is obviously a

716
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 2: you know, issue that's driven mostly by national politics and

717
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 2: international politics. But yeah, education is way up there. And

718
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 2: the bottom line on that to me is just the

719
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,279
Speaker 2: complete lack of accountability for how those vouchers, how that

720
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: money gets spent. The money is required, So this was

721
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: one hundred million dollars last year, and the Reynolds administration

722
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: didn't let us audit the controls of the program. Again,

723
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 2: they use that new law just as we predicted they

724
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,440
Speaker 2: would to literally hide our ability to see what was

725
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,239
Speaker 2: going on with money. But even even Chuck, if the

726
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 2: program is working the way it's supposed to, all of

727
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 2: that money, the whole one hundred million, has to first

728
00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: go to tuition. Once it's paid his tuition. There's only

729
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 2: one thing on God's green earth that can't be done

730
00:39:13,200 --> 00:39:15,120
Speaker 2: with the money. With private schools, they can't pay a

731
00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 2: rebate to parents whose kids are going there, but that's it.

732
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: Any other way they want to use the money totally legal,

733
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 2: and they don't, and we're not allowed to audit it.

734
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 2: So I don't even know how we would find out that.

735
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: To me, can say, you're allowed to audit the public

736
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: school use of taxpayer money.

737
00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: Public schools are audited every year in the state of Iowa.

738
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,400
Speaker 2: Now we have one hundred.

739
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 1: Private schools using taxpayer dollars are not going to be

740
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 1: scrutinized at all.

741
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:43,000
Speaker 2: What are we doing here? What are we doing here?

742
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 2: It blows my mind, But again it's part of the

743
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 2: reason that it's like okay, like we need a change

744
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 2: in direction like this. This state truly is in a

745
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: moment where their focus on the people they're taking care

746
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 2: of is tiny. There are three million people in this

747
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 2: state taking care of insiders. They're taking care of special interests. Odyssey,

748
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 2: the company that runs the program, We found out after

749
00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: months of stonewalling, they actually doubled the pay for Odyssey

750
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:15,520
Speaker 2: to administer the state's voucher program, with no additional obligations

751
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,160
Speaker 2: on behalf of Odyssey in return. They just said, you

752
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 2: know what, we told you, we're going to give you

753
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,160
Speaker 2: this amount of money, We're going to double it. Happy birthday,

754
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: have fun.

755
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: Hey. I want to dig into this because, to me,

756
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: the biggest challenge for the school choice advocates is rural America.

757
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: You know, I'd love you know if you live in

758
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: rural parts of this country, whether it's in Iowa, Florida, Texas,

759
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: these are three states that have been very aggressive about this.

760
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,280
Speaker 1: It's not like it's easy to start up another school.

761
00:40:46,239 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 1: And either you're going to have some questionably accredited people

762
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: trying to do startup schools in areas that they've never

763
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: done it before, and they're going to be using taxpayer

764
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,800
Speaker 1: dollars to experiment and it could fall on its face.

765
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 1: That's something we found out in Florida. You know, if

766
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:04,319
Speaker 1: you had a good administrator, maybe the school went well,

767
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 1: but if you didn't, all of a sudden, money disappeared

768
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 1: and parents were wondering where's all these promised teachers. But

769
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: it's I've noticed, particularly in rural parts of Texas and Florida,

770
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 1: even among very conservative voters, they're very nervous about this

771
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 1: because they're like, where's the choice. You're really basically saying,

772
00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: I either homeschool my kids and maybe you're going to

773
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:31,959
Speaker 1: give me some money to do that, or I maybe

774
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: get into a pod with some other like minded parents.

775
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: But that is actually, why can't we just make the

776
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: school in my neighborhood better? You know?

777
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 2: Jim Pillen in Nebraska, Republican governor said what maybe three

778
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: years ago, Hey, we are going to really increase our

779
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 2: investment in Nebraska public schools. And what do you know?

780
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,319
Speaker 2: According to US News and World Report, Nebraska is now

781
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 2: ranked higher than Iowa for public schools, which as in

782
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 2: Iowan and someone that has a rivalry with Nebraska the

783
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,560
Speaker 2: way much of my state does really annoys me.

784
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: And you grew up there, tell me correct me if

785
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: I'm wrong, But I believe in the nineties and this

786
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 1: is when you were going to school there Iowa, Massachusetts,

787
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: they were in the top five all the time. As

788
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: far as we was school, I'm always the Iowa Public

789
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,720
Speaker 1: school system was wash was something that was the envy

790
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,040
Speaker 1: of others in the Midwest.

791
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 2: Was it not put we put it on our quarter,

792
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 2: our quarter, our US quarter for Iowa says foundation and education.

793
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 2: And now we're in the middle of the pack. It

794
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 2: is in America because they've just.

795
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: Just I don't I mean pulling again. I understand the

796
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:42,960
Speaker 1: frustration with a specific local school that parents can have, right,

797
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 1: And this doesn't feel like solving a problem. This just

798
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,799
Speaker 1: feels like, we know you don't like it, So here go.

799
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: Let's create competition, but not everything. Look, we can't create

800
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: a competitive US mail service. Okay, A service is a service.

801
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 1: You know what you do is you improve the service.

802
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 2: Well, and I want to you know, they like to

803
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,879
Speaker 2: throw around this phrase school choice. What that really means

804
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 2: is that private schools get to choose their students right

805
00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 2: right the public schools. You walk in the door, Hey,

806
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: we're going to educate you. The rule should be, Hey,

807
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:18,120
Speaker 2: if we want real competition, well, competition means everybody follows

808
00:43:18,160 --> 00:43:20,400
Speaker 2: the same rules and may the best fill in the

809
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 2: blank win, whether it's a football team or a school.

810
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,160
Speaker 2: You want to have competition, all right, fine, private schools,

811
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 2: in order to get this money, you too have to

812
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 2: take every student that says they want to attend there.

813
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,919
Speaker 2: Oh well that's hard, it's hard to plan. Yeah, well

814
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: that's a difficulty that public schools face. You said you

815
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: wanted to have competition, same rules apply, job.

816
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:41,520
Speaker 1: You know what's common around here, and it's common everywhere.

817
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 1: But this I could just tell you from experiences. You know,

818
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,760
Speaker 1: I have some parents who have a child that maybe

819
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: needs some extra help, special needs, some you know, in

820
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,799
Speaker 1: different variations. Private schools can say, no, we don't have

821
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,520
Speaker 1: the services to help your kid. You should try this place.

822
00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: So then, of course your choice is actually smaller than

823
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 1: it was because maybe there's only one private school that

824
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: has decided to invest in helping kids with this same

825
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,600
Speaker 1: sort of you know who has a different learning plan

826
00:44:09,440 --> 00:44:13,240
Speaker 1: than kids over here. And guess what happened. It turned

827
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: out he was better off staying in Arlington public schools.

828
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: And his kid got some services because the public school

829
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: had to provide the services, and it was actually really

830
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 1: good services.

831
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: I know a family in our neighborhood that that same experience.

832
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: They switched. Our kids are in public schools in Iowa.

833
00:44:29,480 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 2: They switched from a private school to the public school

834
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 2: and it's been going much better for them. But again,

835
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,360
Speaker 2: I just to me, this is just a question of Okay,

836
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,839
Speaker 2: you want fairness, you want competition, you want choice, then

837
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 2: actually implement policies that do that, as opposed to just

838
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,520
Speaker 2: saying those words, because the law in the state of

839
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,120
Speaker 2: Iowa right now doesn't do those things. Most of the

840
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 2: private schools have had their tuition skyrocket, So if the

841
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,399
Speaker 2: idea was to help you get this money to get

842
00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 2: so you can cover tuition, and then tuition skyrockets, it's

843
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,759
Speaker 2: still out of reach for those people. But I'm not

844
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: sure that that's ever what this was about. Because we

845
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 2: also have no income limits on the program. So the

846
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:15,000
Speaker 2: wealthiest islands this year are using this program where people

847
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,279
Speaker 2: in rural areas where they don't have private schools or

848
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 2: paying state taxes, and now a lot of that money

849
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: is going to wealthy islands to send their kids to

850
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:22,280
Speaker 2: private schools.

851
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: No. I mean, it's what happens whenever you increase money

852
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: into the system who the beneficiary gets to, it becomes inflationary.

853
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 1: They get to raise their prices, and they will raise

854
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:34,600
Speaker 1: their prices. It's like that. All right, Look, we're making

855
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: a pretty good argument against the school choice, but we're not.

856
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: I want to hear you make your tell me how

857
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:43,480
Speaker 1: you can how can we get because I do think

858
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: there's a lot of frustration that here we are. Basically

859
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 1: it's over one hundred years since we started our public

860
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: school infrastructure in this country, let alone in the state

861
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: of ioware everywhere else, and it really hasn't changed, right, Like,

862
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: I think this is why there's parental frustration here. I

863
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:04,439
Speaker 1: don't want to parents wanting something different is a real issue. Now,

864
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 1: you and I were saying, Hey, what you think is

865
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: a fix? Is it going to work the way you

866
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:11,440
Speaker 1: think it's going to work? So what's your plan to

867
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 1: improve public schools and more importantly, to restore confidence in

868
00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 1: the public school system with these parents?

869
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 2: Sure? So we started a government efficiency program in twenty

870
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 2: nineteen that is so good at saving tax dollars it's

871
00:46:25,239 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 2: actually been copied in two other states. It's called PIE

872
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 2: Public Innovations and Efficiencies, and it covers cities and counties too,

873
00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 2: but it also covers school districts. We have an incredible

874
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,319
Speaker 2: checklist of ways that they can save money, and the

875
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 2: more of them that they implement, the more money they're

876
00:46:42,200 --> 00:46:45,279
Speaker 2: going to save. And So what I would like the

877
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,239
Speaker 2: state to do we have right now a really meaningful

878
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,440
Speaker 2: surplus that's presently just sort of sitting there. I would

879
00:46:52,520 --> 00:46:56,280
Speaker 2: like us to actually start a revolving fund to help

880
00:46:56,840 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 2: schools with the upfront cost for those efficiency investments, because

881
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 2: most folks know, you know, if you're going to make

882
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: some efficiency investments, you pay a little bit upfront and

883
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 2: it pays off down the road. So we could use

884
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:11,200
Speaker 2: those state dollars to help dig in and make efficiency improvements.

885
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 2: Those would help us do the things that we know

886
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:19,200
Speaker 2: make schools more effective, parental involvement, smaller class sizes, right,

887
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 2: But you can do those if you're saving that money

888
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,480
Speaker 2: in a way where it doesn't necessarily cost more money.

889
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 2: I think that's a no brainer. And I don't know

890
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: why we're sitting here in twenty twenty five and it's

891
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 2: only being proposed right now as opposed already being done.

892
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: It does seem as if this has become such a

893
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: partisan issue that Republicans feel like they have to be

894
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 1: anti public school even if they want their local I mean,

895
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: we've turned it into almost a litmus test on the right.

896
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 1: So make your case to a conservative that they should

897
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:51,439
Speaker 1: want to spend more time investing in the public school

898
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: system rather than in a private school.

899
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 2: Carb app part of my belief in public schools is

900
00:47:57,520 --> 00:48:01,000
Speaker 2: because of my patriotism. I love this This country is

901
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: about democracy. It's about all Americans working together. The one

902
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 2: place in our lives where we can meet everyone is

903
00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 2: when we are students in public schools. Whatever you do

904
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:17,839
Speaker 2: after that, whether it's you're going to college, while you're

905
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 2: going to college with people who go to college. Are

906
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 2: you going to be an electrician, Well, you're going to

907
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 2: be an apprentice electrician with other folks learning to be

908
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: an electrician.

909
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:26,919
Speaker 1: Right.

910
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 2: Whatever path you choose after that point is a narrowing experience.

911
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 2: One of the best experiences you can have to understand

912
00:48:34,719 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 2: just how good the people are who surround us is

913
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: being a part of and supporting public schools where the

914
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,200
Speaker 2: kids you are next to are the kids who are

915
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 2: from wealthy families and from poor families. The kids you're

916
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 2: there are from well educated families or not well educated families.

917
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,359
Speaker 2: The kids you're next to are from families with both

918
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: parents working or zero parents working. You know, and you

919
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,799
Speaker 2: understand society, I think so much better. And that gives

920
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 2: you such a better sense of who we are as

921
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,000
Speaker 2: a state or as a country. If you're participating in

922
00:49:11,000 --> 00:49:11,760
Speaker 2: public schools.

923
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: Look, I went to a public high school in Miami,

924
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: Florida that was nineteen in the late nineteen eighties. It

925
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,840
Speaker 1: was a third to third third, third Latino, third African American,

926
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: third white. It was pretty segregated inside the school. I'm

927
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,000
Speaker 1: not going to sit here and say it wasn't you'd

928
00:49:24,040 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 1: have friend groups, but there were plenty of ways that

929
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't segregated, and in fact, you ended up with

930
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: relationships because of a student activity. Maybe it was in sports,

931
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: maybe it was in music, whatever it is, and it Look,

932
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: it does give you a better understanding of the world

933
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,359
Speaker 1: we live in rather than some fantasy, you know, isolated bubble. No,

934
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:46,719
Speaker 1: that's a good argument. Let me ask you this on

935
00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 1: Governor Reynolds. What's a policy that what are some policies

936
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: that you're going to keep if you're elected governor. What

937
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 1: has she done right?

938
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 2: I was delighted to see the state require that public

939
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:01,400
Speaker 2: schools have a cell phone, Paul, to limit the usage

940
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:04,040
Speaker 2: of cell phones. And I actually want to go back

941
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,239
Speaker 2: to one thing you had just said there about you

942
00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:09,520
Speaker 2: know the friends that you made. This weekend, I went

943
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:15,280
Speaker 2: home to Decora, my hometown, and invited high school buddies

944
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 2: to come over. And I was sitting there with two

945
00:50:18,560 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 2: of my best friends from high school. One does construction work,

946
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 2: bridge construction, the other one does autobody work. And their

947
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:28,480
Speaker 2: wives came over, their kids came over. We had a

948
00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 2: great time. One of their wives is a public school teacher,

949
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: although she's in Minnesota. The other one, until very recently,

950
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: was a teller at a bank. These are smart people,

951
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 2: and I know them, and I know they have tons

952
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 2: of common sense, and then they have great worth a

953
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: work ethic, and that they're smart because I spent twelve

954
00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 2: years in public schools growing up with them. And it

955
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:55,279
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what people's choices are after I think that

956
00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 2: they're smarter or than some of the people that I

957
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 2: went to college with. And I think it's important to

958
00:51:01,719 --> 00:51:05,959
Speaker 2: understand that but you need to get that experience before

959
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 2: you can understand that.

960
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: Right. No, it's good. Go back to Governor Reynolds. What

961
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,719
Speaker 1: she done, right? Oh yeah, yeah, school phone, cell phone ban,

962
00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,960
Speaker 1: anything else that, Yeah, policies you'd like to keep that

963
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 1: she's been doing.

964
00:51:17,920 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 2: I was happy to see that one done. I was

965
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 2: glad to see the state government reorganization done. For the

966
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,360
Speaker 2: most part. There were pieces of it that I wouldn't

967
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 2: have done. But we had thirty six cabinet level agencies

968
00:51:30,600 --> 00:51:32,479
Speaker 2: in Iowa. I don't think that we needed that many.

969
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:36,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, thirty six that's more than the federal government. Yeah,

970
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,279
Speaker 2: so now we're down to sixteen. I don't know that

971
00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 2: sixteen is the magic number, but certainly we did not

972
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,720
Speaker 2: need thirty six. So that was a good move. Wow,

973
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 2: thirty six.

974
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:50,640
Speaker 1: So you came of age politically during arguably the most

975
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:54,560
Speaker 1: bipartisan era in the history of Iowa. Right. It was

976
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: one R and one D for senators, literally two and two,

977
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:03,480
Speaker 1: you know, be it two to two of the congressional delegation,

978
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:05,959
Speaker 1: three to two when it was five, you know, going

979
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,360
Speaker 1: back and forth, you had a you know, what was

980
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: it twelve years of sixteen years of Republican governors followed

981
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: by twelve years of Democratic governors, right, and it was

982
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: a very even now right, there's not a clean It

983
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: wasn't a clean Republican suite. But Iowa has shifted, or

984
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: it feels like it's shifted. Has it shifted or is

985
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 1: this a is this a red mirage? Is this a

986
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,279
Speaker 1: Trump phenomenon that will look like an outlier ten years

987
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 1: from now.

988
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 2: So there's kind of two pieces of my answer to

989
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 2: that question. One is there are still a huge number

990
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 2: of islands that are focused on the candidate, not in

991
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 2: the party, or you know, public service rather than politics.

992
00:52:53,239 --> 00:52:57,320
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, Tom Miller and Mike Fitzgerald both

993
00:52:57,440 --> 00:53:00,640
Speaker 2: ended up about one percent shy of winning theirs for

994
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,439
Speaker 2: state treasure and Attorney General. If those guys had won,

995
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,719
Speaker 2: we would be the only state in the country with

996
00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 2: an evenly split delegation for the state offices stay wide offices.

997
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 2: That would be a measure where you could say, literally,

998
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,839
Speaker 2: we are the most purple state, right, and we were

999
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 2: one percent off of that. So Republicans have won a

1000
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 2: lot of elections in Iowa lately, but Iowans are still

1001
00:53:23,360 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: just sort of looking for the person, right, and this

1002
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 2: is why this state I think went for Obama twice

1003
00:53:30,239 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 2: and then Trump three times, not because the state changed overnight,

1004
00:53:33,040 --> 00:53:35,680
Speaker 2: but because both of those guys were outsiders who promised

1005
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 2: to change politics.

1006
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: No, it's I completely agree that they have more in

1007
00:53:39,680 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: common than they don't, that that is what they're that

1008
00:53:42,200 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 1: bond of the voter was looking for an outsider, shake

1009
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:51,360
Speaker 1: up the system, don't keep the system running as it's been. Yeah,

1010
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: so does that mean you're gonna do you think it

1011
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:57,840
Speaker 1: would behove the Democratic Party if Iowa were first in

1012
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,680
Speaker 1: the nation on their side of the isle. Again, I do.

1013
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,919
Speaker 2: Make we're gonna and we're going to follow Iowa law.

1014
00:54:06,920 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 2: I'm not confroned with what the d n C says,

1015
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:10,360
Speaker 2: but sure.

1016
00:54:10,400 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: But but yeah, the case to the d n C

1017
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,920
Speaker 1: like why should they why should I you know, I

1018
00:54:14,920 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: I can I know the case i'd make of why

1019
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: Iowa should be first of the nation. And I and

1020
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:21,080
Speaker 1: I you know, folks who listened to know my father

1021
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:24,320
Speaker 1: grew up in eastern Iowa, Waterloo. I've got more family

1022
00:54:24,360 --> 00:54:26,440
Speaker 1: buried in Edgewood, Iowa than I do a live in

1023
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:28,480
Speaker 1: the state of Iowa. So I'm a I'm an Eastern

1024
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,520
Speaker 1: Iowa guy, I know, I know the area well, and

1025
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: I think Iowans are good at doing this. But but

1026
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:36,239
Speaker 1: make a make up, make the case that you have

1027
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 1: to make to the d n C.

1028
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:42,200
Speaker 2: To do this. Sure, pretty straightforward. Iowans have been doing

1029
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 2: this for a very long time, folks like yourself. I

1030
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:47,080
Speaker 2: don't know if you ever said it specifically, but there

1031
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,000
Speaker 2: are other reporters who, when they were here for the

1032
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: Caucuses would say, Man, I've been in every state and

1033
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,480
Speaker 2: I've done this for years. Nobody asks better questions than

1034
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:58,799
Speaker 2: Iowa voters. Nobody's more into it, No one is more

1035
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:01,720
Speaker 2: you know, I appreciate that you made a personal phone

1036
00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 2: call to me, but I'm gonna still yeah, I'm gonna

1037
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,760
Speaker 2: I'm still going to make sure that I have a chance.

1038
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: To like, I love my friends at New Hampshire too.

1039
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:12,240
Speaker 1: There they asked tough questions to the New Hampshire voters.

1040
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 1: Good at this too. I've always said the two of

1041
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: you together are good at this, by way, go go

1042
00:55:16,040 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: for it now.

1043
00:55:16,560 --> 00:55:18,799
Speaker 2: Well, but then, you know, then the DNC comes in

1044
00:55:18,840 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 2: here and says, okay, well Iowa, oh uh, they complain

1045
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:26,759
Speaker 2: about uh diversity, and they complain I can't remember what

1046
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,279
Speaker 2: the other thing was. But then they added a state

1047
00:55:28,320 --> 00:55:30,640
Speaker 2: that was less diverse, own competitiveness, and then they added

1048
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 2: another state that was also less.

1049
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,640
Speaker 1: Competitive, less competitive. Right yeah, Now, look, I actually think

1050
00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 1: they're the real rejecting Iowa first in the nation status

1051
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: is also sending a message to a whole group of

1052
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,360
Speaker 1: voters that they don't want them to be Democrats. And

1053
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 1: I think that is here, you know what they subtly

1054
00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 1: this is the message that I think this is not

1055
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,640
Speaker 1: too subtle, not at all. And I mean, look, Eastern

1056
00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:58,360
Speaker 1: Iowa was the great example. This is as democratic it

1057
00:55:58,440 --> 00:55:59,800
Speaker 1: used to, you know, you like, I don't have to

1058
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,040
Speaker 1: tell you this. The state was basically the east side

1059
00:56:02,080 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: was Democrat, the west side was Republican, and literally des

1060
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,160
Speaker 1: Moines in the middle was the swing area still is

1061
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: the swing area. But Donald Trump racked up all sorts

1062
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: of support along the Mississippi River and in Bait where

1063
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 1: you grew up in the court you've seen it firsthand.

1064
00:56:20,640 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 1: Is it as much of what did what did the

1065
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,440
Speaker 1: MAGA movement do in Eastern Iowa? Or is it what

1066
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,920
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party didn't do in Eastern Iowa.

1067
00:56:29,120 --> 00:56:33,520
Speaker 2: Look, it's always a little bit of six on one

1068
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 2: and a half dozen in the other. Right, I mean

1069
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:38,520
Speaker 2: two things can be true at once. Again, keep in

1070
00:56:38,560 --> 00:56:47,799
Speaker 2: mind that during those presidential races, Democrats also nominated consummate insiders. Right.

1071
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:51,240
Speaker 2: I don't think that that helped, not in a place

1072
00:56:51,280 --> 00:56:53,479
Speaker 2: where people look at politics and they see a bunch

1073
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:57,080
Speaker 2: of bs when what they want is people working together

1074
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:58,280
Speaker 2: to just solve problems.

1075
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 1: You know, the last time you and I were face

1076
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: to face, I think it was into Korra and I

1077
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,600
Speaker 1: was doing a piece about what happened to the Democrats

1078
00:57:05,640 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: in eastern Iowa. And you know, the one Democrat that

1079
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: these folks kept bringing up was Pete Bootage. They don't

1080
00:57:11,680 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: bring it up. They were like Hillary Clinton never came

1081
00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 1: in sixteen I'd hear that all the time. She never came.

1082
00:57:16,360 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: She'd fly to Des Moines, do a few events within

1083
00:57:18,920 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: driving range of Des Moines, and then leave again. And

1084
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: I heard similar complaints in twenty twenty by Biden and

1085
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 1: some of these others. But Pete was the one doing

1086
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 1: it the old fashioned way, and he was showing up

1087
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,920
Speaker 1: in these towns and then, oh look who ended up

1088
00:57:33,920 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 1: overperforming in the caucauses. I'm shocked that campaigning worked you know.

1089
00:57:38,160 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: Well, and I think that goes to the idea of

1090
00:57:41,360 --> 00:57:44,880
Speaker 2: listening and how much that can matter to voters. Let

1091
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: me tell you a story from a month ago, Chuck,

1092
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:51,680
Speaker 2: that still blows my mind. There's a conservative group in

1093
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:56,720
Speaker 2: northwest Iowa in what you would probably pronounce Gaza. It's

1094
00:57:56,800 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 2: Gaza here in Iowa. Gaza. They're the gay patriots in

1095
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 2: their conservative group, and they have a hard time getting

1096
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 2: some of the Republican elected officials in the state of

1097
00:58:08,120 --> 00:58:11,959
Speaker 2: Iowa to come there to do a town hall. I'm

1098
00:58:12,040 --> 00:58:15,400
Speaker 2: an open book. They reached out said will you come

1099
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:18,880
Speaker 2: to a town hall? I said absolutely. I went up there.

1100
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,120
Speaker 2: We had a great event. I don't know if we

1101
00:58:21,200 --> 00:58:25,560
Speaker 2: had seventy eighty ninety people. We had Q and A,

1102
00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 2: which they ended up pre screening. It wasn't my request.

1103
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:32,320
Speaker 2: When I do buy one hundred town halls, I don't spreak, prequeens, spreek,

1104
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 2: I don't pre screen questions. But times I can't. I can't.

1105
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 2: I can't even say it once slowly. But when they announced,

1106
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,920
Speaker 2: Chuck that I was going to come talk to them,

1107
00:58:48,280 --> 00:58:52,840
Speaker 2: the Iowa GOP headquarters read them the Riot Act. They

1108
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 2: treated these Iowans like they own them, and that to

1109
00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,560
Speaker 2: me is the kind of stuff that man, it just

1110
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 2: makes me want to fight the idea that a political

1111
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: party would call people and sort of tell them, don't

1112
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,320
Speaker 2: you go listening to your state wide elected official. Don't

1113
00:59:08,360 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 2: you go and asking questions of the state wide elected official.

1114
00:59:12,680 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 2: There's something deeply wrong in the establishment of that party

1115
00:59:17,400 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 2: right now, and that, to me is a great, great

1116
00:59:20,480 --> 00:59:21,200
Speaker 2: example of it.

1117
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,280
Speaker 1: Well that look, that's usually how party runs end in

1118
00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,320
Speaker 1: a state, where there becomes where you're so entrenched, you're

1119
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 1: so used to winning that you you think you can bully,

1120
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: you know, you think you can keep it up. That's

1121
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: usually the beginning of an unravel on that. Let me

1122
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 1: let me get you out of here. I want you

1123
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:46,000
Speaker 1: to do a shorthand version of the of the of

1124
00:59:46,040 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 1: the lottery scam because you wrote a book. You wrote

1125
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:51,560
Speaker 1: a true crime book, and I think it's pretty good.

1126
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:57,080
Speaker 1: It really reminds me of the McDonald's monopoly scam because

1127
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:01,920
Speaker 1: it was a similar it was a similar discovery. And

1128
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 1: for those that remember that Netflix special about the McDonald's thing,

1129
01:00:06,240 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 1: this had to do with was it Powerball and the

1130
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:11,840
Speaker 1: Mega Because I des moins headquarters for a couple of

1131
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:18,000
Speaker 1: a hot lot of these multi state lotteries, and I'm

1132
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: guessing you didn't even think it was as corrupt as

1133
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: you ended up finding out. Give me the Give me

1134
01:00:23,320 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: the elevator, I guess the long elevator ride version of

1135
01:00:26,080 --> 01:00:26,520
Speaker 1: the story.

1136
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:34,320
Speaker 2: Sure. Bottom line is there was a guy who had

1137
01:00:34,400 --> 01:00:37,400
Speaker 2: the job of writing the code that was going to

1138
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 2: pick random numbers through a computer program. And you put

1139
01:00:41,600 --> 01:00:45,800
Speaker 2: a little bit extra into that code so that on

1140
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:50,280
Speaker 2: two dates a year, if that date fell on a

1141
01:00:50,360 --> 01:00:54,160
Speaker 2: Wednesday or a Sunday, I think it was, if the

1142
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,160
Speaker 2: draw was happening after eight pm, if all three of

1143
01:00:57,200 --> 01:01:00,000
Speaker 2: those things would meet, then instead of using a random

1144
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 2: number generator, it would use a six variable formula to

1145
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 2: sort of pick the seed. And so, of course, because

1146
01:01:06,320 --> 01:01:08,720
Speaker 2: he was an insider, he knew, he knew, he knew

1147
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,280
Speaker 2: what day this could happen, right, and he would know

1148
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: what those variables were so he could go out and

1149
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:15,760
Speaker 2: buy a small number of tickets and guarantee a win.

1150
01:01:16,440 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 2: He his best friend, his brother, and then some guys

1151
01:01:19,200 --> 01:01:21,439
Speaker 2: who are big foot hunters because his brother is one,

1152
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:23,240
Speaker 2: and they're believers.

1153
01:01:23,120 --> 01:01:25,640
Speaker 1: Meaning like bigfoot, like bigfoot sasquatch.

1154
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah somewhere. Yeah he might

1155
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: be somewhere, but he is, but he is definitely. In

1156
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:39,960
Speaker 2: my book, which is called The Winning Ticket, they.

1157
01:01:38,920 --> 01:01:40,840
Speaker 1: Were able to have a big foot story that only

1158
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:41,880
Speaker 1: helps your true crime maarity.

1159
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:43,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well they were able to get away with this

1160
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,440
Speaker 2: for effectively for a decade, and we found.

1161
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:49,240
Speaker 1: Out how often did they win? I mean, so they

1162
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: and what would they do? Were they being careful, like

1163
01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:54,720
Speaker 1: not trying to win the whole thing, winning small like

1164
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:57,960
Speaker 1: because you know, sometimes the best way to rip somebody

1165
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: off is not to try to get the big score,

1166
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 1: but like you get ten medium size scores.

1167
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I mean the Iowa one was a

1168
01:02:04,840 --> 01:02:07,040
Speaker 2: very big one. They had a couple of tiny jackpots

1169
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,760
Speaker 2: in there for twenty k, but they were winning jackpots

1170
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 2: of over a million dollars. And one of my favorite

1171
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,680
Speaker 2: stories in the book actually is about how the first

1172
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,680
Speaker 2: one they actually had the FBI come and question the

1173
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 2: brother about how the money had gotten one. He was

1174
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 2: questioned while he was in a hospital bed because he

1175
01:02:29,080 --> 01:02:30,920
Speaker 2: broke both of his legs while falling out of a

1176
01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 2: tree big foot hunting. So there's that. But when Eddie

1177
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,960
Speaker 2: the Mastermind was trying to convince his best friend. Hey,

1178
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 2: it's okay, don't worry about it. We can do this

1179
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,680
Speaker 2: a second time. One of the things he shared with

1180
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 2: him only at that point, after the best friend had

1181
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 2: already won one jackpot, was.

1182
01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: Hey, look, this is how easy this is.

1183
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: This is how sure I am. The FBI actually questioned

1184
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:56,680
Speaker 2: my brother when I did this with him before I

1185
01:02:56,680 --> 01:02:59,919
Speaker 2: did it with you the first time, and the guy

1186
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,760
Speaker 2: I blue was top because he hadn't. That was the

1187
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:05,200
Speaker 2: first time he learned about this other jackpot. Not only

1188
01:03:05,240 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 2: was there another jackpot, but also the FBI had questioned

1189
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 2: some of the people involved, so he got very He

1190
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:12,960
Speaker 2: got a lot less happy with his best friend after that.

1191
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 1: It's always nice when the when the people you're you're

1192
01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:18,600
Speaker 1: investigating aren't that bright.

1193
01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,480
Speaker 2: Uh, you know what, This is human nature, and Chuck,

1194
01:03:22,600 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 2: you wanted to We wanted to wrap it up. This

1195
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,040
Speaker 2: is why we have checks and balances. This is why

1196
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 2: we want people to be led, not into temptation. This

1197
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,480
Speaker 2: is why the Constitution is a genius document, because when

1198
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:37,439
Speaker 2: you give one person all the power, eventually they're gonna

1199
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,200
Speaker 2: misuse it. And they also they're gonna make mistakes.

1200
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 1: Before I let you go. These what's been harder on

1201
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:50,080
Speaker 1: the Iowa farmer, the tariff uncertainty or the aid contracts

1202
01:03:50,120 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: going away.

1203
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:55,720
Speaker 2: Good question. Most of the folks that I'm talking to

1204
01:03:55,880 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 2: right now are pretty focused on tariffs. I mean, it's

1205
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,720
Speaker 2: just you want to be able to grow what you're

1206
01:04:01,720 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 2: going to grow and fight for the price that you

1207
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: think is the right price. But when you don't know

1208
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,600
Speaker 2: where the price is going, because you have no idea

1209
01:04:08,640 --> 01:04:10,600
Speaker 2: what's going to happen next, it is so hard to

1210
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: make that decision. And most people want to They want

1211
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:16,520
Speaker 2: to sink or swim according to their own decision making.

1212
01:04:16,600 --> 01:04:19,360
Speaker 2: But when there's all this uncertainty out there, they they

1213
01:04:19,680 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 2: they are sort of trapped in this system that they

1214
01:04:22,560 --> 01:04:25,040
Speaker 2: have no control over, which then means they have very

1215
01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: little control over their own success.

1216
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:29,400
Speaker 1: This is going to be one of those rare occasions

1217
01:04:29,400 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: where there's full bipartisan support against these tariffs. And I

1218
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,840
Speaker 1: have seen Chuck Grassley. He came out very quickly trying

1219
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: to you know, because he's the only one.

1220
01:04:37,240 --> 01:04:38,080
Speaker 2: He's the only one.

1221
01:04:38,400 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: I am curious. Do you do you is? And that's

1222
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 1: why I was going to ask you. Has the State

1223
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:46,280
Speaker 1: of Iowa filed onto that lawsuit against the tariffs or not.

1224
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:48,720
Speaker 2: I don't think so, and I would be shocked if

1225
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 2: they do, because our attorney general.

1226
01:04:51,120 --> 01:04:52,800
Speaker 1: But if you were sitting there, if you were working

1227
01:04:52,800 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 1: with Tom Miller again, would you would you be pushing him.

1228
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,720
Speaker 2: In that I think they I like. I like Chuck

1229
01:04:58,760 --> 01:05:01,280
Speaker 2: Grasse's answer. I would agree with if these tariffs work,

1230
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,160
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, amen, helllujah. But I don't think

1231
01:05:03,200 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: they're going to work.

1232
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's hard to see how they're going to work.

1233
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:09,680
Speaker 1: I don't This is not the nineteen twenties. And by

1234
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:11,720
Speaker 1: the way, they didn't really work in the nineteen twenties either.

1235
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:16,760
Speaker 1: Rob said, it's going to be a fascinating campaign. You're

1236
01:05:16,760 --> 01:05:20,480
Speaker 1: going to be you know, there's a lot more riding

1237
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:23,160
Speaker 1: on your on your campaign than maybe you may realize,

1238
01:05:23,160 --> 01:05:24,920
Speaker 1: which is, you know, belief and whether I was a

1239
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,920
Speaker 1: swing state again, belief of if you win, I bet

1240
01:05:28,000 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: you first in the nation status comes with you. I

1241
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: know that's not why you're running for governor, but I

1242
01:05:33,240 --> 01:05:37,440
Speaker 1: just have a feeling that that sort of the perception

1243
01:05:37,760 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: of the Midwest is a swing territory, the perception of Iowa.

1244
01:05:41,600 --> 01:05:45,240
Speaker 1: All of those things probably on your shoulders. Whether you

1245
01:05:45,320 --> 01:05:46,720
Speaker 1: like it or not. I don't know if you whether

1246
01:05:46,760 --> 01:05:47,680
Speaker 1: you appreciate that or not.

1247
01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 2: I'm just going to do my job.

1248
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: Well, look, it's going to be an interesting race, and

1249
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 1: do you expect a primary.

1250
01:05:56,000 --> 01:05:58,320
Speaker 2: There's someone who's said that she'll run. We'll see if

1251
01:05:58,360 --> 01:06:01,440
Speaker 2: she really does. I got no problem with the primary.

1252
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,000
Speaker 1: And there's gonna be probably a pretty big primer around

1253
01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: there on the other side, I.

1254
01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,480
Speaker 2: Would imagine, so, but you know, we'll find out. I'll

1255
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,880
Speaker 2: tell you this, whoever comes out of it is going

1256
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:15,720
Speaker 2: to be an advocate for lockstep, the agenda that Kim

1257
01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:17,640
Speaker 2: Renolds has run that I think is unpopular in the

1258
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:19,800
Speaker 2: State of Islands right now. I think it's a change

1259
01:06:19,800 --> 01:06:20,600
Speaker 2: in a new direction.

1260
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: You're betting on that this is going to be a

1261
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:26,520
Speaker 1: change a change environment no matter who comes out in anomine.

1262
01:06:26,640 --> 01:06:29,320
Speaker 2: I'm a guy that looks at politics and is mostly

1263
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:31,240
Speaker 2: disappointed with what it is, so I might change you

1264
01:06:31,320 --> 01:06:32,440
Speaker 2: guy regardless.

1265
01:06:32,680 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: All right, Well, Rob, I'll be watching closely, as you know,

1266
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:37,320
Speaker 1: and hopefully i'll get you back here again.

1267
01:06:37,600 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 2: All right, thanks, Joe.

1268
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:49,600
Speaker 1: Well, I have a feeling you should pin that interview

1269
01:06:49,600 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 1: with Rob sand There'll be interesting things in there. We

1270
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:56,920
Speaker 1: may revisit it when twenty twenty six comes. But you know,

1271
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,080
Speaker 1: you could argue how Rob sand goes so goes the

1272
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:05,120
Speaker 1: future of the Democratic Party as a national party. They

1273
01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:07,360
Speaker 1: need to recover in places like Iowa if they're going

1274
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 1: to be a viable national party. All right, let's do

1275
01:07:11,280 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 1: a little ass Chuck, ask Chuck. First question comes from

1276
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:20,280
Speaker 1: Peter and he writes this, I listened to Jasmine Crockett

1277
01:07:20,320 --> 01:07:22,680
Speaker 1: interview where you discussed the Obama election. I was working

1278
01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,240
Speaker 1: in Texas one day. Many of my colleagues came back

1279
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,440
Speaker 1: after lunch, all very joyful and happy, and one colleague

1280
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: told me that they had registered as Democrats to vote

1281
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: for Obama. Reason being Russia. Limbaugh told people to do

1282
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 1: that as no way USA would vote for a black man,

1283
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:37,600
Speaker 1: and they could somehow get Hillary to the Democratic to

1284
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:39,600
Speaker 1: be the Democratic choice, which in turn would mess up

1285
01:07:39,600 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: the Democrats. I wasn't a US citizen, so I didn't

1286
01:07:42,080 --> 01:07:43,840
Speaker 1: know what the effect of this Limba idea was. So

1287
01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:47,640
Speaker 1: my question was there a study made on the Limbaugh effect?

1288
01:07:47,680 --> 01:07:52,200
Speaker 1: Best regards Peter, I remember this. It was an Operation Chaos.

1289
01:07:52,240 --> 01:07:54,560
Speaker 1: I think Limbaugh called that he was trying to encourage

1290
01:07:55,640 --> 01:08:01,480
Speaker 1: Republicans or independents not necessarily read, but where they could

1291
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,160
Speaker 1: vote in a Democratic primary to vote for Hillary to

1292
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,560
Speaker 1: extend his theory was the longer the primary process, the

1293
01:08:09,640 --> 01:08:12,560
Speaker 1: mess here, it was the better to keep the Democrats

1294
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: all tied up the Republicans McCain was largely locked up

1295
01:08:16,560 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 1: the nomination a bit earlier than Obama did. I believe

1296
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:24,200
Speaker 1: there was an academic study or too, and it didn't. Really.

1297
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,879
Speaker 1: There isn't many places where that seemed to have an impact.

1298
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: And I think whenever you get people trying to do

1299
01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:32,760
Speaker 1: that kind of voting, trying to organize sort of you know,

1300
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, vote in the other primary for somebody to

1301
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:39,920
Speaker 1: mess things up, you know, I think the informed voter

1302
01:08:40,040 --> 01:08:44,160
Speaker 1: might do it. You know. My old man was a

1303
01:08:44,240 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: registered Democrat in the state of Florida at a time

1304
01:08:46,439 --> 01:08:50,240
Speaker 1: where if you wanted to participate in most elections, the

1305
01:08:50,240 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 1: only primaries that were competitive or Democratic primaries. But he

1306
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,960
Speaker 1: was a Republican voter, but he was a registered Democrat.

1307
01:08:56,000 --> 01:09:00,360
Speaker 1: A lot of southern Southern Democrats were in this vote

1308
01:09:00,400 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 1: where they were registered as Democrats but almost exclusively voted

1309
01:09:03,360 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: for Republican in general elections. So I remember in eighty

1310
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:09,919
Speaker 1: four distinctly, and not only that, in the Democratic primary

1311
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: in Florida back then in the eighties, you voted, you

1312
01:09:12,920 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: could there was a beauty contest quote unquote where you

1313
01:09:15,960 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: picked the candidate that you wanted in the primary, but

1314
01:09:18,360 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 1: then you had to actually pick the specific delegates for

1315
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:24,439
Speaker 1: said candidate to represent at the national convention. So my

1316
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: father was one of those. He was petrified in eighty four.

1317
01:09:27,160 --> 01:09:30,040
Speaker 1: I'll never forget this. He was petrified that Gary Hart

1318
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,040
Speaker 1: would be the nominee because he thought Gary Hart actually

1319
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: could beat Ronald Reagan in eighty four. He didn't think

1320
01:09:34,080 --> 01:09:37,320
Speaker 1: Mondale could, and he didn't think Jackson could, so he

1321
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,240
Speaker 1: believed he was trying to support Jackson. So he ends

1322
01:09:40,280 --> 01:09:44,439
Speaker 1: up voting Jackson in the primary and the delegates, it

1323
01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: was less about voting for Jesse Jackson and more about

1324
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:51,680
Speaker 1: trying to deny, you know, trying to improve Jackson's chances

1325
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:56,880
Speaker 1: to weaken heart sore. And there certainly is plenty of

1326
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,519
Speaker 1: evidence that the long primary campaign hurt while her Mondale

1327
01:10:00,520 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: in eighty four. But I think in hindsight, the long

1328
01:10:03,360 --> 01:10:07,600
Speaker 1: primary campaigns for Obama and eight and for Trump and

1329
01:10:07,720 --> 01:10:11,759
Speaker 1: sixteen didn't weaken the eventual nominees. They actually strengthened them.

1330
01:10:12,320 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: And I think one of the things that hurt Joe

1331
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:17,320
Speaker 1: Biden in twenty twenty was was cutting off the campaign

1332
01:10:17,360 --> 01:10:20,400
Speaker 1: so quickly. I wonder if the Democratic Party would have

1333
01:10:20,400 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: been better off as far as field. But I'll give

1334
01:10:23,200 --> 01:10:27,479
Speaker 1: you a perfect example in OBAMAA Obama had that thing

1335
01:10:27,520 --> 01:10:30,919
Speaker 1: wrapped up. I would argue, we knew after Super Tuesday

1336
01:10:31,000 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: he was directionally going to be the nominee. He had

1337
01:10:33,200 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: to collapse. And then, of course, after he did his

1338
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: Philadelphia speech race speech, he put it away because there

1339
01:10:40,520 --> 01:10:44,160
Speaker 1: was just never going to be enough delegates the delegate path,

1340
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:47,799
Speaker 1: the way the Democrats distributed delegates. But Hillary kept marching

1341
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:51,320
Speaker 1: on just in case, right, just in case there was

1342
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,560
Speaker 1: some revelation that would come out and destroy his candidacy,

1343
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: and she'd be there to pick up the pieces. So

1344
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 1: deep into May, right, they went all the way to June,

1345
01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:03,280
Speaker 1: deep into May. We had a big primary night Indiana,

1346
01:11:03,400 --> 01:11:06,200
Speaker 1: North Carolina. This was the night that Tim Russell famously said,

1347
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:07,920
Speaker 1: we now know who the Democratic nomin and he's going

1348
01:11:07,960 --> 01:11:10,080
Speaker 1: to be. It's Barack Obama. And he declared the race

1349
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:13,439
Speaker 1: closest to anybody came on TV to declaring the race.

1350
01:11:13,439 --> 01:11:15,760
Speaker 1: Although we had kind of been hinting at this, it

1351
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 1: was always funny to me that him saying it became

1352
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:22,439
Speaker 1: became such a gut punch to the Clinton campaign. They

1353
01:11:22,479 --> 01:11:25,479
Speaker 1: got really angry about this, believing this was now. But

1354
01:11:25,520 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: the fact is North Carolina and Indiana. Why am I

1355
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,040
Speaker 1: singling those two states out? Well? Those were the two

1356
01:11:31,160 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: surprise states that Barack Obama ended up carrying in two

1357
01:11:34,160 --> 01:11:36,519
Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Does he carry those states in a

1358
01:11:36,560 --> 01:11:40,000
Speaker 1: general election without actually having to run a competent primary

1359
01:11:40,040 --> 01:11:42,840
Speaker 1: campaign in Indiana and North Carolina in May of that

1360
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:46,519
Speaker 1: election year. So my point is is that by having

1361
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:50,719
Speaker 1: to organize in more states for longer during that process. Inaight,

1362
01:11:51,680 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: what if rush Limbaugh thought he was helping the Republican Party,

1363
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,559
Speaker 1: extending the primary only made Barack Obama's organization better and

1364
01:11:59,640 --> 01:12:06,120
Speaker 1: strong in more states. So I actually believe the more

1365
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 1: contested a campaign is towards the end, arguably it has

1366
01:12:10,520 --> 01:12:13,439
Speaker 1: in the twenty first century, it has actually helped that

1367
01:12:13,479 --> 01:12:16,639
Speaker 1: party in the general election. All right, Next question comes

1368
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,679
Speaker 1: from Steve and Vernon Hills, Illinois. He writes, you're double

1369
01:12:19,720 --> 01:12:21,560
Speaker 1: the size of the House idea may have merit, but

1370
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:24,000
Speaker 1: where would one physically put them all? How would it work?

1371
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: The seating in the House chamber would look like economy

1372
01:12:26,400 --> 01:12:28,920
Speaker 1: seats on airplanes. And wouldn't that be great?

1373
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 2: Right?

1374
01:12:29,160 --> 01:12:31,080
Speaker 1: Shouldn't they all have to be stuffed next to each other?

1375
01:12:31,080 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: It's the people's house, right, Look, this is always I

1376
01:12:35,439 --> 01:12:38,000
Speaker 1: don't want office space to be the reason why this goes.

1377
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:42,639
Speaker 1: This idea doesn't happen, but I do think that there is. Look,

1378
01:12:42,680 --> 01:12:45,320
Speaker 1: we're due for a new house office building. I think

1379
01:12:45,400 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 1: that the first woman Speaker of the House probably ought

1380
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: to have a building named for her. We have one

1381
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:52,280
Speaker 1: for Joe Cannon. There probably ought to be one for

1382
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:55,640
Speaker 1: Nancy Pelosi. And I'm not sure you strip off a

1383
01:12:55,720 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: name and put on a name. So I think we're

1384
01:12:58,280 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 1: due for one office space right now. Some argue is tight,

1385
01:13:01,439 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: but I actually would double the size of the house,

1386
01:13:04,160 --> 01:13:07,040
Speaker 1: but not double the size of the staff, right so

1387
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:10,080
Speaker 1: that you would have so I'd have, you know, one

1388
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:14,599
Speaker 1: more office building, but essentially you you would you would

1389
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:17,559
Speaker 1: you would narrow it down. I'd like to see members

1390
01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:21,479
Speaker 1: of the House have their bigger offices in their district,

1391
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,240
Speaker 1: and that's where a large majority of their staff ought

1392
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: to reside more. The staff ought to be in the

1393
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:29,240
Speaker 1: district than in Washington. That you really, your Washington staff

1394
01:13:29,240 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: ought to be literally the chief of staff, the legislative director,

1395
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:37,360
Speaker 1: your communications director, and and and some and and maybe

1396
01:13:37,479 --> 01:13:39,680
Speaker 1: maybe a few other helpers. And that's it. That the

1397
01:13:39,840 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: large chunk of your work, if it's constituent services, should

1398
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: actually be taking place in the district. So that's to me,

1399
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,040
Speaker 1: I would sort of we reimagine what office space is like,

1400
01:13:51,120 --> 01:13:53,759
Speaker 1: and it really should be about office space in the district,

1401
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: not necessarily office space in Washington. And as for where

1402
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:58,280
Speaker 1: do you see them in the large Chamber book, you

1403
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: know it's it was, you know, they they've added seats

1404
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:05,720
Speaker 1: to that chamber before since we've been We expanded the

1405
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,200
Speaker 1: house for one hundred and twenty years. So there's no

1406
01:14:08,240 --> 01:14:10,719
Speaker 1: reason why you can't come up with different ways to

1407
01:14:10,760 --> 01:14:14,639
Speaker 1: continue to expand the house seating chart and things like that.

1408
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:19,240
Speaker 1: You know, I think you could do it without making

1409
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:22,360
Speaker 1: us feel like we're all sitting in Southwest seats. But

1410
01:14:22,439 --> 01:14:26,599
Speaker 1: I certainly, I certainly think the bigger question is where

1411
01:14:26,640 --> 01:14:28,479
Speaker 1: do they have their offices? And this is where I

1412
01:14:28,479 --> 01:14:31,200
Speaker 1: would flip the script here, districts should be where a

1413
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 1: lion's share of the staff and offices are, and literally

1414
01:14:34,000 --> 01:14:36,080
Speaker 1: you should it almost should feel like a cubicle when

1415
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:39,559
Speaker 1: you're coming to Washington. That's to me what a citizen

1416
01:14:40,160 --> 01:14:44,559
Speaker 1: legislature for a representative democracy ought to behave. All right,

1417
01:14:44,640 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 1: last question for the for this episode, dom from Easton PA.

1418
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:51,240
Speaker 1: I believe that's the home of one Larry Holmes, the

1419
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:56,880
Speaker 1: most underappreciated all time heavyweight champion of the world. Let

1420
01:14:56,920 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 1: me go. I've been thinking a lot about the issues

1421
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:01,800
Speaker 1: facing American democracy. Wouldn't it be smart for a group

1422
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 1: or party like Andrew Yang's Forward Party to become dedicated

1423
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:06,920
Speaker 1: to this one cause. Similar to how the Forward Party

1424
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:10,040
Speaker 1: endorses candidates that are registered Republicans or Democrats, this new

1425
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:13,760
Speaker 1: American Forward Party can support candidates and officials on both

1426
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:16,479
Speaker 1: sides and independents who decide to support legislation that would

1427
01:15:16,520 --> 01:15:19,400
Speaker 1: end jerrymandering, overturn Citizens United, or vote to expand the

1428
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,240
Speaker 1: US House. Is there an appetite for this? Well, you

1429
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:27,120
Speaker 1: just described the much of the agenda the Forward Party,

1430
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:29,280
Speaker 1: and it's funny you bring up the Forward Party. I'm

1431
01:15:29,320 --> 01:15:31,800
Speaker 1: actually going to have the chair of the Forward Party

1432
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:35,479
Speaker 1: on this podcast pretty soon, hopefully before the end of

1433
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,840
Speaker 1: this month of May, and we will ask her about that.

1434
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:41,720
Speaker 1: I've been doing some deeper dives on what they're up to.

1435
01:15:42,200 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 1: You know, in theory, No Labels was trying to get

1436
01:15:44,680 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 1: to this place that you're describing, where they could create

1437
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:50,200
Speaker 1: sort of a caucus or a coalition of the willing,

1438
01:15:50,320 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: if you will, have left and right on different issues.

1439
01:15:52,600 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 1: I think I've always thought if No Labels made a mistake,

1440
01:15:55,360 --> 01:15:59,080
Speaker 1: it was assuming there was an actual centrist ideology. And

1441
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: I think that what what there really is is a

1442
01:16:02,080 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 1: pragmatic ideology, meaning people that are willing to compromise to

1443
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:10,800
Speaker 1: make incremental progress versus people that want the issue and

1444
01:16:10,800 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 1: it's their way or the highway right. And that's to me,

1445
01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,960
Speaker 1: is the difference between a partisan legislator and a and

1446
01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:16,680
Speaker 1: a politician.

1447
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:16,880
Speaker 2: Right.

1448
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,800
Speaker 1: A politician figures out how to do the best they

1449
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: can with what with what is offered, and so but

1450
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,880
Speaker 1: I look, it's been the theme of this podcast at

1451
01:16:26,880 --> 01:16:30,880
Speaker 1: the top. I think there's a vacuum out there for

1452
01:16:30,920 --> 01:16:32,760
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of Americans who feel like they're not

1453
01:16:32,800 --> 01:16:36,920
Speaker 1: represented very well by the Democrats or the Republicans, and

1454
01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 1: there are pieces of ideas that they like in both parties.

1455
01:16:40,439 --> 01:16:42,320
Speaker 1: So it's you know, the idea that you can have

1456
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,800
Speaker 1: one third party do anything is I think is I

1457
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:48,240
Speaker 1: get why that? That seems like you know, there's no

1458
01:16:48,520 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: there's no perfect compromise there. But I do think there's

1459
01:16:52,000 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 1: something there is. I think there is a vacuum out

1460
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:57,240
Speaker 1: there and there's going to be an appetite for this.

1461
01:16:57,920 --> 01:16:59,920
Speaker 1: And again, look, some of it is going to be

1462
01:17:00,120 --> 01:17:02,800
Speaker 1: by necessity. Do we have a John Corny and decide

1463
01:17:02,800 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 1: he has to run as an independent? That's an opportunity

1464
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:07,559
Speaker 1: for the Forward Party, right, Ditto with Tillis or ditto

1465
01:17:07,600 --> 01:17:11,559
Speaker 1: with this Jason Pizzoo in Florida. So some of it

1466
01:17:11,600 --> 01:17:13,400
Speaker 1: will have to do with what kind of well we

1467
01:17:13,479 --> 01:17:18,880
Speaker 1: see ah a better quality of candidate running as an

1468
01:17:18,920 --> 01:17:21,320
Speaker 1: independent in some of these spots or running as a

1469
01:17:21,360 --> 01:17:24,519
Speaker 1: non traditional member of what either party an. I think

1470
01:17:24,640 --> 01:17:28,800
Speaker 1: that's you know, some of it is you know, you

1471
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:31,360
Speaker 1: have you have an idealistic you have an ideal in

1472
01:17:31,400 --> 01:17:33,200
Speaker 1: your head of what that candidate would look like. Is

1473
01:17:33,200 --> 01:17:37,960
Speaker 1: there anybody that will actually resemble that ideal? And we'll see.

1474
01:17:37,960 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: I think it's a little early but I know, I'm

1475
01:17:40,560 --> 01:17:43,559
Speaker 1: hopeful that there's some attempts to shake up the system

1476
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:46,800
Speaker 1: because it's clear the two party duopoly is not good

1477
01:17:46,840 --> 01:17:47,800
Speaker 1: for the democracy.

1478
01:17:48,120 --> 01:17:48,519
Speaker 2: All right.

1479
01:17:50,120 --> 01:17:54,120
Speaker 1: With that, I ought to lament the lottery. I know.

1480
01:17:54,160 --> 01:17:57,000
Speaker 1: I closed the last podcast with a with begging you

1481
01:17:57,040 --> 01:18:01,880
Speaker 1: guys for good vibe. So thanks for nothing. I have tease.

1482
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:04,680
Speaker 1: By the way, as somebody paid attention to what's going

1483
01:18:04,760 --> 01:18:08,919
Speaker 1: to happen to the three teams in the state of Texas, Dallas, Houston,

1484
01:18:09,000 --> 01:18:12,840
Speaker 1: San Antonio. Those three NBA teams, they're all on the rise,

1485
01:18:13,200 --> 01:18:16,920
Speaker 1: They're all in a position of strength all of a sudden,

1486
01:18:17,880 --> 01:18:22,120
Speaker 1: and it's a state that prefers football and baseball over basketball.

1487
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: It's you know, we'll see if it's a if this

1488
01:18:25,439 --> 01:18:28,000
Speaker 1: sort of changes, but this is a state that loves

1489
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:31,360
Speaker 1: its football and loves its baseball, and basketball has always

1490
01:18:31,360 --> 01:18:34,679
Speaker 1: been fine. And there's certainly you know, been your Baylors

1491
01:18:34,680 --> 01:18:36,960
Speaker 1: had a good program. Tex UT's had a good program,

1492
01:18:37,000 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 1: don't get me wrong. But in Houston obviously has been

1493
01:18:42,280 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: one of the powers in college basketball off and on

1494
01:18:45,560 --> 01:18:49,760
Speaker 1: for years. But as you know, it is never it

1495
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,599
Speaker 1: has never been that the core and yet the NBA

1496
01:18:52,840 --> 01:18:56,479
Speaker 1: three the three franchises, there have never all three been

1497
01:18:56,520 --> 01:19:00,000
Speaker 1: on this strong of footing at the same time. Anyway,

1498
01:19:00,240 --> 01:19:05,799
Speaker 1: that's going to be fascinating to watch build on that front.

1499
01:19:06,320 --> 01:19:09,200
Speaker 1: As for my poor Wizards, I mean, it was such

1500
01:19:09,200 --> 01:19:11,160
Speaker 1: a wizard's ending. Not only did they not get it,

1501
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: they didn't even get a top four pick, didn't even

1502
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,679
Speaker 1: get a top two pick, end up in the sixth spot.

1503
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,200
Speaker 1: You know, who knows. You never know who you draft

1504
01:19:19,240 --> 01:19:22,960
Speaker 1: in six You know, Jokic was drafted in the second round.

1505
01:19:23,040 --> 01:19:25,800
Speaker 1: Yannis was down in the deepen the lottery, and you know,

1506
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:28,559
Speaker 1: grew three inches after he was drafted, So you know,

1507
01:19:28,880 --> 01:19:31,640
Speaker 1: you can always hope. But boy, go look at the

1508
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: NBA draft history and see how many players in the

1509
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 1: top three become All Stars versus how many players in

1510
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 1: the rest of the first round become All Stars. So

1511
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:42,920
Speaker 1: it's a bummer not to get one of those first

1512
01:19:43,080 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 1: three picks. All right, that's enough with my sports update again,

1513
01:19:48,040 --> 01:19:52,000
Speaker 1: Like and subscribe everywhere we are, YouTube, Apple, Spotify, you

1514
01:19:52,080 --> 01:19:54,240
Speaker 1: name it. And oh, by the way, we now have

1515
01:19:54,280 --> 01:19:57,320
Speaker 1: a weekly substat that you can subscribe to as well,

1516
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,320
Speaker 1: so go check it out there and with that until

1517
01:20:00,360 --> 01:20:01,000
Speaker 1: we upload again,