WEBVTT - REPLAY: Turning Enemies Into Friends

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<v Speaker 1>A man dies when he refuses to stand up for

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<v Speaker 1>that which is right. A man dies when he refuses

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<v Speaker 1>to stand up for us. Yea. A man dies when

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<v Speaker 1>he refuses to pick up stand for that which is true. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>The great and often unsung civil rights hero Bayard Rustin

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<v Speaker 1>once said, we need in every community a group of

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<v Speaker 1>angelic troublemakers. We are non violent because injury to one

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<v Speaker 1>is injury to all. In May, a ship pulled into

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<v Speaker 1>the harbor in Durban, in the city in South Africa.

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<v Speaker 1>Aboard the ship was a twenty seven year old Indian

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<v Speaker 1>lawyer named Mohandas Gandhi. The young man was an advocate

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<v Speaker 1>for the rights of immigrant Indian laborers across South Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was not popular among the nation's white citizens.

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<v Speaker 1>An angry mob on the docks awaited Gandhi's arrival. Gandhi's grandson,

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<v Speaker 1>a ruined Gandhi, explains it happened just by a chance.

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<v Speaker 1>Was that the ship on which the Gandhi family was

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<v Speaker 1>traveling also carried several hundred indentured labors. The mob assumed

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<v Speaker 1>that the Indian agitator was connected to the arriving immigrants,

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<v Speaker 1>so this mob thought that he's bringing all these people

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<v Speaker 1>into South Africa to increase the population and overtake the

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<v Speaker 1>white population. Gandhi was advised to remain aboard for his

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<v Speaker 1>own safety. He refused. He was attacked as soon as

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<v Speaker 1>he disembarked. The mob hurled stones, eggs, and bricks at it.

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<v Speaker 1>He was beaten and kicked. His turban was torn from

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<v Speaker 1>his head. The crowd intended to lynch him. Gandhi was

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<v Speaker 1>only spared when the wife of the local police superintendent

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<v Speaker 1>happened to pass by. She bravely shielded him with her parasol,

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<v Speaker 1>then held off the mob until the brew used in

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<v Speaker 1>bloody Gandhi was safely inside a nearby house. Gandhi was

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<v Speaker 1>later asked why he got off the boat. He explained

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<v Speaker 1>that he prayed for the courage to face the mob,

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<v Speaker 1>not for his own safety. Later on, the police were

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<v Speaker 1>able to arrest some of the people in the mob

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<v Speaker 1>and they invited Grandfather to come over and file charges

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<v Speaker 1>against them so that they could be tried and convicted.

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<v Speaker 1>And Grandfather came to the police station and he met

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<v Speaker 1>with these people and he told the police he said,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not going to I don't want to charge them.

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi offered his assailants only love and understanding. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>three of the four people who were arrested eventually became

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<v Speaker 1>his followers and his friends for life. In this episode

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<v Speaker 1>of The Thread, we delve into the influential life of

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<v Speaker 1>Mohandas Gando, the man who inspired million in South Africa

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<v Speaker 1>and India to challenge their oppressors and convert enemies into

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<v Speaker 1>friends in the world. Like in the World, Just like

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Sean Braswell. This season on The Thread, we trace

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<v Speaker 1>the origins of a powerful idea, non violent resistance. So far,

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<v Speaker 1>we followed the Reverend Martin Luther King's journey to combat

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<v Speaker 1>racial injustice in the United States. Then we heard about

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<v Speaker 1>Bayard Rustin, King's tutor in non violence. Now we turn

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<v Speaker 1>to the iconic figure behind Rusten and so many other

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<v Speaker 1>social movements of the past century behind us Gandhi. Before

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<v Speaker 1>Rustin helped shape the direction of the U s Civil

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<v Speaker 1>rights movement, he journeyed to India in nineteen forty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>shortly after Gandhi's death. There, Rustin learned firsthand about his

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<v Speaker 1>heroes non violent tactics from those who knew Gandhi, best

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<v Speaker 1>known as Mahatma or the great Ole. Gandhi was nothing

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<v Speaker 1>short of a rebel genius. He took up the age

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<v Speaker 1>old doctrines of love and pacifism and turned them into

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<v Speaker 1>tools of resistance. Gandhi, armed only with love, humility, and disobedience,

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<v Speaker 1>brought the most powerful empire on earth to the bargaining

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<v Speaker 1>table and eventually to its knees. If you're joining us

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<v Speaker 1>for the first time, we encourage you to go back

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<v Speaker 1>and begin this season's interconnected journey with episode one. Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>was born in western India in eighteen sixty nine. He

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<v Speaker 1>was the fourth and last child of a politician and

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<v Speaker 1>a devout Hindu woman. Here's a ruined Gandhi again talking

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<v Speaker 1>about his famous grandfather. He had all the weaknesses that

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<v Speaker 1>teenagers have. He smoked cigarettes and he ate meat too,

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<v Speaker 1>and his family was vegetarian, and he would lie to

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<v Speaker 1>his parents. He just was not a very promising kid

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<v Speaker 1>in a lot of ways. This is Kit Miller, director

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<v Speaker 1>of the M. K. Gandhi Institute for Non Violence, and

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<v Speaker 1>I really loved telling people that because we have this

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<v Speaker 1>idea that people like Gandhi are kind of coming straight

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<v Speaker 1>out of the egg in a certain way, and it's

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<v Speaker 1>far from the truth in his situation. Especially. Gandhi married

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<v Speaker 1>his wife when they were both thirteen years old. It

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<v Speaker 1>was an arranged marriage. Three years later, Gandhi's father unexpectedly

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<v Speaker 1>died and it was decided that the teenager should leave

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<v Speaker 1>for Great Britain in order to earn a law degree

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<v Speaker 1>and helped support his family. Gandhi boarded a steamer bound

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<v Speaker 1>for England one month before his nineteenth birthday. So Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>went off to London. He arrived there wearing a white

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<v Speaker 1>suit in the wintertime and looked like an idiot. And

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<v Speaker 1>I think he felt like an idiot a lot in

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<v Speaker 1>the first especially weeks or months. There is an early

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<v Speaker 1>photograph of the young Gandhi taken just after his arrival

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<v Speaker 1>in London. He's almost unrecognizable to those who have only

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<v Speaker 1>seen images of him as an older man. The young

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<v Speaker 1>law student has no mustache or glasses. His thick black

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<v Speaker 1>hair has parted on one side. At first in London,

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi was eager to fit in, to transform himself into

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<v Speaker 1>a Victorian gentleman. He bought a top hat in an

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<v Speaker 1>evening suit. He invested in French lessons, so he thought

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<v Speaker 1>that if he changed himself and became like the British,

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<v Speaker 1>speak their language, dressed like them, and you know, become

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<v Speaker 1>British in every sense except the color. That he would

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<v Speaker 1>be accepted more readily. And he attempted to do that,

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<v Speaker 1>but he found that even that didn't help. Eventually, Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>began a different transformation in London. In addition to his

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<v Speaker 1>legal studies, he read sacred Hindu and other religious texts.

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<v Speaker 1>A British Bible salesman even persuaded Gandhi to read the

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<v Speaker 1>Christian Holy Book. Gandhi later claimed that Jesus's Sermon on

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<v Speaker 1>the Mount, including its admonition to love one's enemies, went

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<v Speaker 1>straight to his heart in many ways. Gandhi was a

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<v Speaker 1>changed man when he returned to India to practice law

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<v Speaker 1>in eight But he was a lousy lawyer. He was

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<v Speaker 1>so shy, didn't represent himself very well. He got one

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<v Speaker 1>case in in what was then called Bombay and that

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<v Speaker 1>didn't go very well. So there was a sense of

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<v Speaker 1>what am I gonna do? Gandhi was about to give up.

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<v Speaker 1>Then he received an offer from South Africa the help

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<v Speaker 1>resolve a legal dispute between two Indian businesses. He accepted

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<v Speaker 1>the offer and decided he would try his luck in

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<v Speaker 1>a new country. The twenty four year old Gandhi arrived

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<v Speaker 1>in South Africa in eighteen It was not at all

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<v Speaker 1>what the young lawyer was expecting. I think he was

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<v Speaker 1>shocked by the racial prejudice in South Africa. It was

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<v Speaker 1>an order of magnitude worse than anything he had encountered

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<v Speaker 1>in India or in England. Gandhi boarded a train early

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<v Speaker 1>on in his time in South Africa. He purchased a

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<v Speaker 1>first class ticket, but when a white passenger complained about

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<v Speaker 1>the Indian's presence in the first class compartment, two railway

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<v Speaker 1>officials removed him from the train. Gandhi and his suitcases

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<v Speaker 1>were tossed onto the platform at the next station. He

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<v Speaker 1>spent the night in the station alone, far from home

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<v Speaker 1>and freezing cold. And that's where he suffered his first

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<v Speaker 1>physical act of prejudice, when he was thrown off the

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<v Speaker 1>train because of the color of his skin. And that

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<v Speaker 1>humiliation really brought about the transformation in his life. For me,

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<v Speaker 1>that's one of the magic moments in Gandhi's life. Instead

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<v Speaker 1>of becoming indignant simply on his own behalf, he made

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<v Speaker 1>the moral leap. Sitting there that night to recognize that

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<v Speaker 1>his situation was just one of a countless number of

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<v Speaker 1>moments of prejudice and racism that was taking place, and

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<v Speaker 1>he decided he wanted to do something about it. But

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi also realized that he didn't have the capacity to

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<v Speaker 1>seek justice violently, so he wanted to find no reason

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<v Speaker 1>which he could get justice without having to fight for it.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's how the philosophy of non violence came about,

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<v Speaker 1>and he began to practice that and that became his

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<v Speaker 1>mission in life. Gandhi's commitment to justice and non violence

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<v Speaker 1>led him to make an important decision. He decided to

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<v Speaker 1>stay and help the Indian community fight for its rights.

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<v Speaker 1>Instead of remaining in South Africa for one year to

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<v Speaker 1>complete his legal assignment, Gandhi stayed for twenty one years.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, Gandhi was a loyal subject of the British

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<v Speaker 1>Empire and he worked to make change within the existing system,

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<v Speaker 1>But he came to realize that those in power were

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<v Speaker 1>not interested in changing the nation's laws or customs. Often

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<v Speaker 1>they wanted to pass new ones. In nineteen o six,

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<v Speaker 1>the government and transvol the Province of South Africa announced

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<v Speaker 1>it would require all Indian men, women and children to

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<v Speaker 1>register or imprisonment. Gandhi had an idea for how best

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<v Speaker 1>to protest the new law. The first expression of non

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<v Speaker 1>violence in a political frame actually took place on September

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen o six. It's the other September eleven. In the

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<v Speaker 1>following clip from film Gandhi, the young lawyer played by

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Kingsley, makes his case for non violence and non cooperation.

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<v Speaker 1>On that day before a hall packed with Indian labors.

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi proposed a new tactic. Whatever they do to us,

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<v Speaker 1>we will attack no one, kill no one, but we

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<v Speaker 1>will not give our fingerprints, not one of us. They

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<v Speaker 1>will imprison us and they will find us. They will

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<v Speaker 1>seize our possessions, but they cannot take away our self

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<v Speaker 1>respect if we do not give it to them. Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>urged Indians not to register and to defy the new

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<v Speaker 1>law regardless of punishment. Rallies and protests were staged across

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<v Speaker 1>the country, which demonstrators burned their registration cards. I think

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<v Speaker 1>he began to see that people who are moral had

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<v Speaker 1>a duty to not obey unjust laws. Gandhi was sentenced

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<v Speaker 1>to two months in prison for his own refusal to register.

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<v Speaker 1>He began to move from being again like someone who

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<v Speaker 1>really saw himself as a middle class attorney, to being

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<v Speaker 1>someone who actually could best serve society by breaking the

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<v Speaker 1>laws when they were not just. And Gandhi's assault on

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<v Speaker 1>unjust laws was just beginning. A few years later, mine

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<v Speaker 1>workers in South Africa organized a strike against a new

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<v Speaker 1>government tax. At first, the striking miners went ahead without

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi's help. Their protests turned into violent confrontations with government

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<v Speaker 1>forces and the strike went nowhere. Then Gandhi decided to

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<v Speaker 1>organize a march with over two thousand demonstrators, one that

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<v Speaker 1>took place over several days. He didn't let anybody show

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<v Speaker 1>any anger or frustration. It was very peaceful. Gandhi was

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<v Speaker 1>arrested and released on bail three times during the march.

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<v Speaker 1>And then something incredible happened. The British official in South Africa,

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<v Speaker 1>who previously used violence to stop the striking miners, asked

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi to come to the negotiating table, and during that

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<v Speaker 1>time he confessed to Grandfather. He said, I could deal

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<v Speaker 1>with the strikers because there was so much anger and

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<v Speaker 1>frustration that that I could justify a violent action. But

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<v Speaker 1>he says, I don't know how to deal with you

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<v Speaker 1>because you are so compassionate and consider it towards us,

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<v Speaker 1>and that is the key to a non violent action.

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<v Speaker 1>We are not fighting an enemy, we are transforming a friend.

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<v Speaker 1>Gandhi's new friend agreed to rescind the tax and in

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<v Speaker 1>some of the other discriminatory laws against Indians. But Gandhi

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<v Speaker 1>was still learning about the power of his new non

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<v Speaker 1>violent philosophy, and his application of it was often imperfect.

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<v Speaker 1>For example, he largely turned a blind eye to the

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<v Speaker 1>suffering and discrimination being inflicted on the black South African population,

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<v Speaker 1>and some modern scholars accused Gandhi of prejudice towards that community.

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<v Speaker 1>Run Gandhi disagrees. He says that his grandfather's non violent

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<v Speaker 1>mission merely began with his attempt to help his fellow Indians.

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<v Speaker 1>So he felt that if it's difficult to convince my

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<v Speaker 1>own people, how am I going to go and convince

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<v Speaker 1>uh somebody else. Gandhi learned in South Africa that non

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<v Speaker 1>violence could be a powerful tool for social protest, but

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<v Speaker 1>he knew that his homeland in India was also suffering

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<v Speaker 1>under colonial rule, and to combat that long standing injustice

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<v Speaker 1>and pluck out the crown jewel of the British Empire.

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<v Speaker 1>It would take a resistance movement unlike any of the

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<v Speaker 1>world had ever seen. India had been under British rule

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<v Speaker 1>for almost half a century. By the time gone He

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<v Speaker 1>returned to his homeland in nineteen fourteen, a population of

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<v Speaker 1>over three hundred million people was governed by a mere

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<v Speaker 1>two thousand British civil servants and around sixty thousand soldiers.

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<v Speaker 1>Ruined Gandhi again. His success in South Africa had attracted

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of media attention in India, and many of

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<v Speaker 1>the Indian leaders felt that he could make a tremendous

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<v Speaker 1>contribution in India. Gandhi joined India's National Congress and, like

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<v Speaker 1>many supported Great Britain in World War One and the

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<v Speaker 1>hopes that the colonial power would treat India differently when

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<v Speaker 1>the war was over. The British did the opposite. There

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<v Speaker 1>were some really harsh laws that had been passed during

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<v Speaker 1>World War One, which the Indians hoped and expected would

0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:52.000
<v Speaker 1>be east up when the war ended, and on the contrary,

0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.960
<v Speaker 1>harsher laws were put in place. Among other things, the

0:14:55.960 --> 0:14:59.760
<v Speaker 1>new laws criminalized civil disobedience and prohibited more than ten

0:14:59.840 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>In Dean's gathering in a public place at any one time.

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 1>But the people were so you know, motivated by this

0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:14.960
<v Speaker 1>non violent action that in spite of that rule, more

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.880
<v Speaker 1>than ten thousand of them gathered in a ground open

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.120
<v Speaker 1>ground in the middle of the city of Umrits. That

0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:26.040
<v Speaker 1>open ground was a large six acre public garden with

0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:30.000
<v Speaker 1>walls on all sides and only five entrances. When Colonel

0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 1>Reginald Dyer, the local British officer in charge, heard about

0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:36.640
<v Speaker 1>the crowd gathered there, he decided to quash the protest.

0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:40.640
<v Speaker 1>Dire later testified quote, I had made up my mind

0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.600
<v Speaker 1>I would do all the men to death. He brought

0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 1>his military and surrounded the crowd of ten thousand and

0:15:48.880 --> 0:15:54.480
<v Speaker 1>opened fire on them point blank range, and within minutes

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:59.800
<v Speaker 1>he killed more than three d and eighty six people.

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi responded to the blood and violence in Amritzar by

0:16:03.880 --> 0:16:09.000
<v Speaker 1>encouraging Indians to boycott British goods, schools, jobs, courts, and

0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.000
<v Speaker 1>honors to refuse to pay their taxes. For months, Gandhi

0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 1>toured the countryside in the torrid summer heat, speaking to

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 1>large crowds. He encouraged them to weave their own clothes

0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.640
<v Speaker 1>and to avoid British apparel. The crowds piled up shirts, coats,

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.760
<v Speaker 1>pants and other clothes, which Gandhi set a fire. Gandhi's

0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:31.160
<v Speaker 1>non violent army in India was taking shape, but British

0:16:31.160 --> 0:16:34.600
<v Speaker 1>officials arrested Gandhi for preaching sedition in nineteen twenty two.

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.920
<v Speaker 1>He was sentenced to six years in prison. Gandhi smiled

0:16:38.960 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 1>as he was led away to jail. Gandhi served only

0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.960
<v Speaker 1>two years of his sentence during that time. In the

0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.360
<v Speaker 1>remainder of the nineteen twenties, the British succeeded in thwarting

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.800
<v Speaker 1>India's growing independence movement. They used a divide in rule policy.

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 1>They exploited the existing tensions between Hindus and Muslims in

0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.800
<v Speaker 1>India to consolidate their own power. A ruined Gandhi. So

0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 1>they they exacerbated all of these divisions that existed in

0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:19.200
<v Speaker 1>society and kept people fighting within themselves and not the British.

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.680
<v Speaker 1>So Gandhi also devoted himself to helping his fellow Indians

0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.399
<v Speaker 1>improve themselves. Kit Miller again, his attention very naturally turned

0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 1>to well what kind of country will we be after

0:17:29.880 --> 0:17:33.399
<v Speaker 1>they leave um? And then also trying to get people

0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:37.399
<v Speaker 1>to become able to be non violent. He many times

0:17:37.440 --> 0:17:40.639
<v Speaker 1>called off campaigns if violence would break out, and he

0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:45.479
<v Speaker 1>would fast himself in penance, um using his own moral

0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:50.160
<v Speaker 1>credibility with the Indian people to try to get them

0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.720
<v Speaker 1>to stay nonviolent even when they were provoked. British officials

0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:56.879
<v Speaker 1>in India had no idea how to respond to the

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 1>unorthodox tactics being used by the quiet man in sandals

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:05.119
<v Speaker 1>and a white loincloth. They told new administrators when they

0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 1>were coming from England to India to stay away from

0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.600
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi because he was so compelling. Ah, he like literally,

0:18:13.600 --> 0:18:17.080
<v Speaker 1>holl Gandhi will get you, they said. Gandhi's impact on

0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.280
<v Speaker 1>his own people was even more remarkable. He was really

0:18:20.320 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 1>regarded as a saint. I mean, he didn't ask for

0:18:22.720 --> 0:18:26.480
<v Speaker 1>the honorific of Mahatma. He didn't actually like it because

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.520
<v Speaker 1>he felt that it separated him from other people. He

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:35.280
<v Speaker 1>lived ate, dressed and traveled like the poorest people in

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.960
<v Speaker 1>a very poor country. When he was asked why he

0:18:38.000 --> 0:18:40.560
<v Speaker 1>always traveled third class, he said he smiled and said,

0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:43.919
<v Speaker 1>because there's no fourth class. Still, the man they referred

0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.840
<v Speaker 1>to as Bapu or father, had not delivered on any

0:18:46.880 --> 0:18:51.160
<v Speaker 1>major reforms that was about to change. Gandhi would demonstrate

0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:53.280
<v Speaker 1>the power of non violence to the world as it

0:18:53.320 --> 0:18:56.399
<v Speaker 1>had never been shown, a message that would resonate with

0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:00.720
<v Speaker 1>Bayard Ruston, Martin, Luther King, and others down corridors of

0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:08.640
<v Speaker 1>history to this day. Gandhi grew frustrated by the pace

0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:11.520
<v Speaker 1>of progress in India. He knew he needed something that

0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.920
<v Speaker 1>would break through, that would put more pressure on the

0:19:13.960 --> 0:19:17.159
<v Speaker 1>British and forced them to change course. And then he

0:19:17.200 --> 0:19:21.040
<v Speaker 1>found it. The colonizers made Indians by British salt at

0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:23.560
<v Speaker 1>a high price, even though Indians could make it much

0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.800
<v Speaker 1>cheaper themselves. Gandhi knew he had his pressure point ruined.

0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi again, he suddenly realized that this would be a

0:19:33.040 --> 0:19:38.919
<v Speaker 1>great way of mobilizing the entire community, because salt is

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.880
<v Speaker 1>something that everybody were, the rich or poor or whatever.

0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Everybody needed salt. So he announced the launching of the

0:19:51.160 --> 0:19:56.720
<v Speaker 1>AsSalt March and the defiance of the AsSalt Law. Gandhi

0:19:56.720 --> 0:19:59.280
<v Speaker 1>and seventy eight followers set out from a village in

0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:02.639
<v Speaker 1>western India for a two hundred and forty one mile march.

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.440
<v Speaker 1>They had to due south towards the sea. The British were.

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:11.600
<v Speaker 1>They laughed it off. Then they didn't do anything um

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.080
<v Speaker 1>to prepare for this kind of major revolution that it became,

0:20:17.160 --> 0:20:20.600
<v Speaker 1>and millions of people joined within a couple of days.

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:26.600
<v Speaker 1>That's when the British realized, how you know, popular this was,

0:20:27.359 --> 0:20:30.119
<v Speaker 1>but by then it was too late for them to

0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:33.359
<v Speaker 1>do anything to stop it. Gandhi and his followers watched

0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.560
<v Speaker 1>for twenty four days from village to village along winding

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.879
<v Speaker 1>dirt roads, the army growing in size at every stop.

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:43.480
<v Speaker 1>Soon the eyes of the world were transfixed on Gandhi

0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.359
<v Speaker 1>in India, and by the time they finished up, there

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:49.919
<v Speaker 1>were thousands of people walking along. Kit Miller. He was

0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.040
<v Speaker 1>in his late sixties by then, and he just he

0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:55.720
<v Speaker 1>could just eat up the ground walking. He was he

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.160
<v Speaker 1>was just on fire. Gandhi and his followers finally reached

0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.760
<v Speaker 1>the country's coast in the early morning. Gandhi scooped up

0:21:02.760 --> 0:21:05.080
<v Speaker 1>a handful of mud and salt left by the ocean

0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>in defiance of the British law. He declared, with this salt,

0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:13.760
<v Speaker 1>I am shaking the foundations of the British Empire. People.

0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:16.639
<v Speaker 1>Immediately after the first moment of when he grabbed the

0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.240
<v Speaker 1>salt from the shore people all over the country started

0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.159
<v Speaker 1>to follow suit, and um, you know, it was a

0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:28.639
<v Speaker 1>remarkable moment of people recognizing that they could be free.

0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:33.080
<v Speaker 1>That Salt March and and the defiance of the salt

0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:38.480
<v Speaker 1>law was the last straw on the camel's back, and

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:46.200
<v Speaker 1>from that point onwards, independence was inevitable. The following year,

0:21:46.200 --> 0:21:51.960
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi traveled to England to argue for Indian independence. Fear

0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:55.000
<v Speaker 1>years at last the mystery man of India, and he's

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.440
<v Speaker 1>carrying with him is pots and pans, which he declared

0:21:57.440 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 1>that the customers. When asked to speak into the sound

0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:05.479
<v Speaker 1>film microphone, he said, I think not. Gandhi, now aged sixty,

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:08.600
<v Speaker 1>did agree to some interviews, though his words were fear,

0:22:09.440 --> 0:22:14.000
<v Speaker 1>if England does not grant to your demand, what force

0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:25.720
<v Speaker 1>of action will follow them? Of course, colia civil disobedience,

0:22:25.760 --> 0:22:29.520
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi answered, But Britain's leaders did not grant Gandhi's demands,

0:22:29.840 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>so he pressed on. This is Gandhi addressing a crowd

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:35.919
<v Speaker 1>in Geneva, Switzerland, after his trip to Great Britain. I

0:22:36.040 --> 0:22:39.800
<v Speaker 1>regard my tip as a soldier, though a soldier of Pe,

0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:43.160
<v Speaker 1>the soldier of peace was greeted as a conquering hero

0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:45.800
<v Speaker 1>when he returned back to India, and he was more

0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:49.119
<v Speaker 1>convinced than ever that India could prevail over Britain using

0:22:49.200 --> 0:22:52.119
<v Speaker 1>love and non violence. It was just a question of

0:22:52.160 --> 0:22:56.080
<v Speaker 1>how long that would take up Next, Gandhi's dream of

0:22:56.119 --> 0:22:59.720
<v Speaker 1>independence for India was realized, but not without a steep price.

0:23:16.359 --> 0:23:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi returned home to India nineteen thirty one. He is

0:23:19.560 --> 0:23:23.120
<v Speaker 1>a hero beloved, but India is still under British rule.

0:23:23.880 --> 0:23:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi continued to lead his fellow Indians and acts of

0:23:26.280 --> 0:23:29.920
<v Speaker 1>civil disobedience and non violent protests throughout the nineteen thirties.

0:23:30.520 --> 0:23:33.680
<v Speaker 1>It had only a modest effect. Britain responded with more

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:38.480
<v Speaker 1>violence and oppression. Then the Second World War intervened. Finally,

0:23:38.640 --> 0:23:41.879
<v Speaker 1>in the years following the war, great Britain's resolves started

0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:45.720
<v Speaker 1>to fade. It came to the table, ruined Gandhi again.

0:23:46.359 --> 0:23:53.399
<v Speaker 1>I think the you know, the massive defiance in India

0:23:53.640 --> 0:23:59.560
<v Speaker 1>against British rule, plus the tremendous losses that they suffered

0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:03.240
<v Speaker 1>in War War two, really broke the back of the

0:24:03.280 --> 0:24:07.840
<v Speaker 1>British and decided that, you know, it's time that they

0:24:08.160 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 1>gave India independence. August fifteenth nine, Independence Day for India.

0:24:19.680 --> 0:24:22.240
<v Speaker 1>In London, the flags of the new Indian Union flattered

0:24:22.280 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 1>over the headquarters of India and Pakistan. An era has ended,

0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:30.360
<v Speaker 1>a new epoch begins. The Indian subcontinent achieved its independence,

0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 1>but only after its land was divided along religious lines

0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:38.000
<v Speaker 1>into Hindu controlled India and Muslim ruled Pakistan. Gandhi was

0:24:38.119 --> 0:24:42.359
<v Speaker 1>quite heartbroken with away. Independence was finally broken. Because of it,

0:24:42.600 --> 0:24:46.399
<v Speaker 1>the divisiveness between Hindus and Muslims um I mean, he

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.160
<v Speaker 1>really went to the mat to try to avoid um

0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:54.080
<v Speaker 1>that division. Gandhi feared that partition of the Indian subcontinent

0:24:54.160 --> 0:24:58.400
<v Speaker 1>would spark widespread violence between Hindus and Muslims. He was right.

0:24:59.040 --> 0:25:03.040
<v Speaker 1>The streets filled with corpses. Decades of non violent resistance

0:25:03.320 --> 0:25:10.439
<v Speaker 1>were drowned in a river of blood. The possibility of

0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:14.119
<v Speaker 1>death was a constant companion for Gandhi, but he continued

0:25:14.160 --> 0:25:18.280
<v Speaker 1>on kit Miller again. He wouldn't take the security. He

0:25:18.400 --> 0:25:21.240
<v Speaker 1>just would continue in his daily habits, so very easy

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 1>target for assassination. Like he knew he was putting himself

0:25:24.880 --> 0:25:27.680
<v Speaker 1>at risk, but it was not his His own safety

0:25:27.760 --> 0:25:30.720
<v Speaker 1>was not his highest priority. Gandhi was on his way

0:25:30.760 --> 0:25:34.880
<v Speaker 1>to address a prayer meeting on the evening of January

0:25:34.960 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 1>when a young Hindu nationalists fired three bullets into his

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.920
<v Speaker 1>chest at point blank range. Gandhi died soon after. You know,

0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:44.720
<v Speaker 1>when someone was crediting him for being non violent, he said, well,

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 1>my test of non violence will really be at the

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.159
<v Speaker 1>end of my life. Will I be able to if

0:25:50.200 --> 0:25:52.960
<v Speaker 1>I'm killed by someone? Will I be able to die

0:25:53.200 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 1>with my prayers for their well being on my lips?

0:25:56.400 --> 0:25:58.440
<v Speaker 1>Close to a million people to send it on New

0:25:58.480 --> 0:26:01.399
<v Speaker 1>Delhi to pay homage, to go and watch as his

0:26:01.480 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>body was burned atop a large funeral pyre. All this

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:08.200
<v Speaker 1>time wherever he went, I'm a Hatma's doctrine of commonal

0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 1>peace brought hope and faith to millions in village and city.

0:26:11.560 --> 0:26:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Are luck. The news of it went all around the world,

0:26:16.600 --> 0:26:18.760
<v Speaker 1>And you think about it. You know, Gandhi never had

0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 1>an army, he never had political office, he never had

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:25.320
<v Speaker 1>any money. I think he died with like five possessions,

0:26:25.880 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>you know. So to think of someone who lived their

0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:32.960
<v Speaker 1>life in the way that he did and had such

0:26:33.240 --> 0:26:39.639
<v Speaker 1>enormous moral power, moral force, it changed the world, you know,

0:26:40.200 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 1>the way he lived changed the world. Martin Luther King

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:47.160
<v Speaker 1>once wrote of Gandhi quote, with a little love and understanding, goodwill,

0:26:47.440 --> 0:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>and a refusal to cooperate with an evil law, he

0:26:50.440 --> 0:26:52.760
<v Speaker 1>was able to break the backbone of the British Empire.

0:26:53.240 --> 0:26:56.720
<v Speaker 1>More than three nine million people achieved their freedom, and

0:26:56.720 --> 0:27:01.760
<v Speaker 1>they achieved it non violently. Gandhi became a singular figure

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:04.440
<v Speaker 1>in the eyes of the world, but even the Mahatma

0:27:04.480 --> 0:27:07.520
<v Speaker 1>stood on the shoulders of another great man. In fact,

0:27:08.160 --> 0:27:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Gandhi's roade to non violence originated with an eccentric novelist

0:27:11.880 --> 0:27:19.920
<v Speaker 1>who lived more than five thousand miles away. Gandhi's interest

0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.800
<v Speaker 1>in non violence stemmed from a variety of people in places.

0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:26.120
<v Speaker 1>He spoke always about the women in his life as

0:27:26.160 --> 0:27:30.720
<v Speaker 1>being key people showing him non violence. Gandhi was also

0:27:30.800 --> 0:27:35.280
<v Speaker 1>influenced by Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, and the teachings of Jesus.

0:27:35.800 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 1>But the person who really caught Gandhi's attention was the

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:43.720
<v Speaker 1>famous Russian novelist Leo Tolstoy. In the eighteen nineties, Gandhi

0:27:43.720 --> 0:27:47.080
<v Speaker 1>read The Kingdom of God Is Within You, Tolstoy's treatise

0:27:47.200 --> 0:27:51.119
<v Speaker 1>on Love and non violence. Gandhi later wrote that Tolstoi's

0:27:51.160 --> 0:27:56.560
<v Speaker 1>book quote overwhelmed me ruined Gandhi again. The idea of

0:27:56.720 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 1>non violence began to mature are in his mind. He

0:28:02.080 --> 0:28:07.680
<v Speaker 1>realized that there is nothing disobedient about wanting justice. Yeah,

0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:12.880
<v Speaker 1>And so he came to know about Tolstoy and had

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:16.560
<v Speaker 1>read some of dult sty book, and so he borrowed

0:28:16.880 --> 0:28:26.359
<v Speaker 1>DLS toys A Passive Resistance in Night. Two years before

0:28:26.359 --> 0:28:29.359
<v Speaker 1>his death, the eighty year old Tolstoy wrote an essay

0:28:29.400 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>about the British occupation of India. He asked how millions

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:35.919
<v Speaker 1>of Indians could be enslaved by so few British and

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 1>he provided the answer. The Indians were enslaving themselves through

0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:44.280
<v Speaker 1>their cooperation with evil. The solutions at Tolstoy was love

0:28:44.440 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>and non cooperation. He advised the Indians quote, do not

0:28:48.800 --> 0:28:51.120
<v Speaker 1>resist the evil doer, and no one in the world

0:28:51.200 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 1>will be able to enslave you. Tolstoy's words touched a

0:28:55.040 --> 0:28:57.560
<v Speaker 1>nerve in the young Gandhi, who was attempting to help

0:28:57.600 --> 0:29:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Indians overcome oppression in South Africa. After he accepted passive resistance,

0:29:05.640 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 1>he wanted to learn a little bit more about it

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:13.000
<v Speaker 1>from Tolsto and so he started a correspondence with him,

0:29:13.040 --> 0:29:17.719
<v Speaker 1>which we went on for several years back and forth.

0:29:18.200 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 1>In those letters, Gandhi shared with Tolstoy the details of

0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:24.360
<v Speaker 1>his struggles with the British and South Africa and sought

0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:27.640
<v Speaker 1>his advice. Tolsto was thrilled to hear about the young

0:29:27.680 --> 0:29:29.920
<v Speaker 1>activists who was trying to turn the principles of non

0:29:30.080 --> 0:29:34.880
<v Speaker 1>violence into true political action. Just two months before Tolstoy's death,

0:29:35.320 --> 0:29:37.320
<v Speaker 1>in one of the last letters he would ever write,

0:29:37.760 --> 0:29:41.600
<v Speaker 1>he praised Gandhi's peaceful resistance in South Africa, calling it

0:29:41.640 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 1>the most weighty, practical proof that such a course of

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:50.680
<v Speaker 1>action could work. Leo Tolstoy is perhaps best known today

0:29:50.720 --> 0:29:54.400
<v Speaker 1>for his novels including Warren Peace and Anna Karinina, but

0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:57.400
<v Speaker 1>his biggest legacy and gift to the world might be

0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:01.040
<v Speaker 1>his ideas on non violence. The young Gandhi embraced those

0:30:01.080 --> 0:30:04.160
<v Speaker 1>ideas and altered the course of the twentieth century, and

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>in turn he inspired a black activist named Bayard Rust,

0:30:08.040 --> 0:30:10.760
<v Speaker 1>who then handed the gift down to a young preacher

0:30:10.840 --> 0:30:14.080
<v Speaker 1>named Martin Luther King Jr. Next week, on the thread

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<v Speaker 1>count Leo Tolstoy, The Privileged Russian playboy who turned himself

0:30:18.840 --> 0:30:21.760
<v Speaker 1>into one of the greatest novelists of all time before

0:30:21.800 --> 0:30:27.800
<v Speaker 1>giving it all up to change the world in the world,

0:30:28.080 --> 0:30:38.560
<v Speaker 1>just like change in the world, Just like, just Like.

0:30:40.840 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 1>The Thread is produced by Libby Coleman, Robert Coulos, Sophia

0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 1>Perpetua and me Sean braswell Chris Hoff engineered our show.

0:30:48.920 --> 0:30:52.080
<v Speaker 1>This episode features the song Be the Change by mc yogi.

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:55.200
<v Speaker 1>To learn more about The Thread, visit Ausie dot com,

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:58.280
<v Speaker 1>Slash the Thread all one word, and make sure to

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0:31:04.800 --> 0:31:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Check us out at ausie dot com or on Twitter

0:31:06.880 --> 0:31:10.720
<v Speaker 1>and Facebook. If you love surprising, engaging stories from history,

0:31:11.160 --> 0:31:14.680
<v Speaker 1>look no further than the flashback section of Ausi dot com.

0:31:14.760 --> 0:31:19.080
<v Speaker 1>That's ozy y dot Com and Christian's Rotist with James

0:31:19.080 --> 0:31:22.240
<v Speaker 1>and choose all the many past got lead into the

0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:26.040
<v Speaker 1>lightnessis brightness side of me until you gotta bes that

0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:29.000
<v Speaker 1>you want to see in the world. It's just like

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:32.360
<v Speaker 1>our be the James that you want to see in

0:31:32.480 --> 0:31:35.400
<v Speaker 1>the world, just like Beat