1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. My name is 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: Ali Eleele statue Yeshayao my whole life. I've battled the truth. 3 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: I'm Middle Eastern, my roots are in Yemen. I was 4 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: scared that if anyone found out that I was less 5 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: valid of a person. But I'm so sorry to have 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: lied to everybody in this room. 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 2: That's Ari's Statuel Tony Award winning actor, singer, and playwright. 8 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: His one man show Other is currently running off Broadway. 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: Ari's is a story of all the ways our identities, 10 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,599 Speaker 2: the way we see ourselves, the way others see us, 11 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: have a profound impact on the shape of our lives 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 2: and the stories we tell. I'm Dani Shapiro, and this 13 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: is Family Secrets, the secrets that are kept from us, 14 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 2: the secrets we keep from others, and the secrets we 15 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 2: keep from ourselves. All right, tell me about the landscape 16 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 2: of your childhood in Berkeley, California. 17 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,920 Speaker 1: The landscape of my childhood. Well, the first thing I'll 18 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: say is that at one and a half, my parents divorced, 19 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: and so I was raised between the household of Yemen 20 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: and Israeli father and an Oshkenazi American doctor, and they 21 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:50,080 Speaker 1: both had very different ways of thinking and engaging with 22 00:01:50,120 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: the world. My dad had moved with nothing but ambition 23 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: and no sort of higher education beyond high school, and 24 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: he was a taxi driver when he first moved to 25 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: the Bay Area in San Francisco, and he eventually started 26 00:02:04,960 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: his own Harvard flooring company. My mom, on the other hand, 27 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: had just finished residency and was an obgyn And so 28 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: I think the landscape was really shaped by my experiences 29 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,640 Speaker 1: in those two cultures. And though many people would consider 30 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: me to have sort of a middle class, upper middle 31 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: class Jewish upbringing, I consider myself to come from a 32 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: bicultural background. One house was Hebrew, it was Yemennite food, 33 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: it was Yema Nite music, and then the other house 34 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: was much more academic. As I got older, you know, 35 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 1: my mom remarried. In the conversations with her partner, who 36 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: is Ashkenazi and has a background in psychology and sociology, 37 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 1: were very intellectual. So that was sort of the backdrop 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 1: at home at school. Very quickly, I guess I felt different. 39 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 2: Ari's story begins when his parents meet at an Israeli 40 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: folk dancing night. It's the nineteen eighties in San Francisco. 41 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: His father. 42 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 2: His abba is a taxi driver and his mother a 43 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: medical student. They are from entirely different worlds, both in 44 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: origin and temperament, but this doesn't stop his father from 45 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: almost immediately saying to his mother on the dance floor, 46 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,360 Speaker 2: I'm going to marry you, and how many children do 47 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 2: you want? Do you want four? Do you want five? 48 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: Ari is five years old when the toll of growing 49 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: up between those different worlds begins to reveal itself psychologically. 50 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: He starts exhibiting certain behaviors and it's decided that he 51 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: will start to see a therapist. 52 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: I was experiencing really, really intense phobias that I couldn't 53 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: quite explain at a very young age. I had this 54 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: strong folk of eating in front of people with a 55 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: range of disabilities, and I would go for weeks without eating. 56 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: If we were at a restaurant, or if I was 57 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: at the grocery store at my mom somebody came in 58 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: and I saw a hearing aid or a wheelchair, I 59 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: would sort of have a phobia of the food that 60 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: was purchased or consumed next door in front of one 61 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: of those people. I have no idea where it came from, 62 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,359 Speaker 1: and nobody really know what to do. And my dad, 63 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 1: who is not someone that was raised with medicine or 64 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: diagnosis or anxiety, just thought I was a kid. And 65 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:31,240 Speaker 1: my mom thought that this was a disorder, and so 66 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: she brought me to a cognitive behavioral therapist, and the 67 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: therapist then charted out with me. Well, first of all, 68 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,600 Speaker 1: we named the anxiety Meredith. 69 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 2: Well I love that, Okay. I mean, so the therapist 70 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 2: says to you, age five, you have something called obsessive 71 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 2: compulsive disorder OCD for short. But what are we going 72 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: to name this thing that you have? How are we 73 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 2: gonna persona? I mean, how did that come about? Because 74 00:04:56,839 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 2: you came up with Meredith like the stepmom in the 75 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: Parent Trap. 76 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 1: The Parent Trap, That's exactly right. I had an older 77 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: sister Atalia, who's two and a half years older, so 78 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: anything that she watched I watched, and Parent Trap was 79 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 1: the movie that we watched, and we really didn't like Meredith. 80 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: Meredith is very rude, very it was very mean, and 81 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: so in fact, I remember that therapy session, I was 82 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: underneath the couch picking at some of the loose fabrics 83 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: and he asked for the name, and I said Meredith, 84 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 1: And that felt very very right to me, it was 85 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: Meredith because that was the image I had of something 86 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: that felt evil, and in retrospect, obviously, it was his 87 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: way of helping me disassociate with the strong feelings that 88 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: I felt. I remember gave me a worksheet and I 89 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: would sort of rank what was the scariest person to 90 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: eat in front of to the least scary, and it 91 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 1: was like on a scale of ten to zero. He 92 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: had this idea of sort of desensitizing, and the plan 93 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 1: was that he'd bring me out to a restaurant and 94 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: that we would start the sort of de sanpsitize. And 95 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I was very frightened of that and I didn't want 96 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 1: to do that at all, and we actually never followed 97 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: through with that, but that was my first time in therapy. 98 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: My parents sent me to a public school for kindergarten, 99 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: and I got so hooked on impersonating the other kids 100 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: and getting into this kind of street culture in Berkeley 101 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: as a kindergartener and starting to speak slang that my 102 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: parents sent me to a Jewish school, hoping it connected 103 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: by roots and sort of get me out of that environment. 104 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 2: I guess that's so interesting. Of course, you grow up 105 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 2: to become an actor, So it's hard to kind of 106 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: unnot sort of untangle what was what? How do you 107 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 2: see that early impersonation or adopting of a different kind 108 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 2: of identity is a kindergartener? Was that fun fore? Or 109 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 2: was that coming from a place of I don't know 110 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: what or who I am? 111 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: It was the greatest joy. It was the absolute greatest 112 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: joy and ease, and it kind of focused me and 113 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: I love the different ways that people spoke. I remember 114 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: as a kindergarten our study to use the word ain't 115 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 1: and my mom said to me, like, why are you 116 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: using that word? He said, well, that's what Mitchell uses. 117 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: So I got really really hooked on how people spoke. 118 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: And it wasn't even conscious. I just would get into 119 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: a character and it would consume me until I stopped 120 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:29,800 Speaker 1: feeling obsessed with it. And I didn't even recognize it 121 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 1: as Meredith consuming me. It was just utter pleasure and 122 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,120 Speaker 1: it was effortless to me, and it was freedom in 123 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: some way before I even knew what freedom meant. 124 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 2: Do you think it was Meredith or do you think 125 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: it was just something that was not connected to the 126 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: OCD Well. 127 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:50,960 Speaker 1: I think it's a combination of both. I think Meredith 128 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,880 Speaker 1: has the elements of her my anxiety, of the elements 129 00:07:54,880 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 1: that are difficult and need to be managed, such as 130 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: this phobia food. And then there's the part of Meredith 131 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: that's incredibly curious and that loves the sound of different 132 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: voices and accents, et cetera. And so I think it 133 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: was her that got me so hooked on it, and 134 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: that it would just feel good to me to sort 135 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: of go to school and impersonate some person all day. 136 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: And yeah, that's where Meredith ticks in, right, is that 137 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: it's not like an isolated incident and it becomes like 138 00:08:27,240 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: a thing I'm gonna keep doing this. 139 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I mean, I think we have all these 140 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: words and phrases to help us understand ourselves, but like, 141 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it is who I am. 142 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 1: I didn't understand it in that way then, but now 143 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:43,559 Speaker 1: when I look at it, it's just like it's the 144 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: particular way that I digested the world. And there were 145 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: some particular ways that I would say it disrupted my 146 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: quality of life and other ways in which it really 147 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: enhanced the way I was singing in the world around me. 148 00:08:56,920 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: So that was really early. 149 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 2: Ari's now in third grade, the whole class is doing 150 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: a presentation for a disability week. When it's his turn, 151 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: he stands and goes to the front of a classroom. 152 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: I got up and I shared that I had obsessed 153 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: with a composer disorder named Meredith, and I sort of 154 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: was asked to talk abouting around into class with those 155 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: kind of social students. I though, I would say that 156 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: I wasn't thriving socially before that, and I never quite 157 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:31,679 Speaker 1: understood why I didn't thrive socially, but that certainly didn't 158 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: help admitting that to the class. I speak about it 159 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: in some ways a silly thing, but if I put 160 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 1: myself back into the body that third grade kid, I mean, 161 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: it's day in, day out, and there was a girl 162 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: at the wheelchair at school and I wouldn't eat, and 163 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: I wouldn't eat when I got home, and I wouldn't 164 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: touch the food that was in my lunch. I mean, 165 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: it was a really, really real phobia that I believed. 166 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, I guess it's not a real 167 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 2: phobia unless you believe it, like Meredith was so much 168 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 2: a part of you. It also, it seems to me, 169 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 2: took a lot of courage or a lot of, you know, 170 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 2: just gumption for a third grade kid to get up 171 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,960 Speaker 2: there and say, you know, I have this disability. 172 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:18,439 Speaker 1: I think there were kids with a number of other 173 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: disabilities that we presented. One he was in a wheelchair, 174 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: one had sort of webbed fingers or it was like 175 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: and I think the teacher thought it was a really 176 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:29,320 Speaker 1: good idea to show the spectrum of these conditions. I 177 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: remember my mom even then thinking it was really weird. 178 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: I didn't I just sort of went along with what 179 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: the teacher asked me to do. And now that I'm 180 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: reflecting on it with you now, I suppose it is 181 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: quite strange that I would announce that in that way 182 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: and that I would be asked to but at different times. 183 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,440 Speaker 2: The way that I kind of read that was that 184 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,959 Speaker 2: the way that your parents each handled it with you 185 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: that it doesn't seem like there was any shame. 186 00:10:52,640 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean my dad either didn't understand it or 187 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:58,559 Speaker 1: was in denial or a mixture of the two, and 188 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: my mom was committed to fixing it. I'm just as 189 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:03,800 Speaker 1: I'm talking about it, right, I'm just feeling a tightness 190 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: in my chest because I'm remembering how real it was. 191 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: So it was like a dad who had no vocabulary 192 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: language for mental health, and a mom who maybe had 193 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: too much language for it. And I remember, I still 194 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: didn't recognize that it's making me abnormal. It was just 195 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: a feeling that I had, but I was still very 196 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 1: normal in my head. 197 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 2: At school, Ari is also othered by the color of 198 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 2: his skin. He's aware of this difference, describing himself as 199 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 2: the only brown kid in school, So in an effort 200 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: to both justify and identify with this, to simultaneously lean 201 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 2: in and lean out, he decides to be in Israeli. 202 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 2: He starts speaking with an accent. 203 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: So on one level, I had a lot of status 204 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: as the son of an Israeli at Jewish day school 205 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 1: because everyone has to do a Hebrew classes, and I 206 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: was more Proffi than the rest of my classmates, So 207 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: in the class I had a sort of level of status. 208 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: But but outside of Hebrew class, I didn't recognize the 209 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,520 Speaker 1: Judaism that I was surrounded with because I always felt 210 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: that it was described in a way or practiced in 211 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 1: a way that that sort of ignored what I had 212 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: learned from my dad about what it meant to be Jewish, 213 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: and it wasn't inclusive of my Misvaki heritage, and so 214 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: I felt that it was you know, the word that 215 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: is now used as ashka normative. That was the environment 216 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: that the school was. There was a transfer student for 217 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 1: a year from Israel and Amalan. I felt much more 218 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: comfortable with him because he spoke Hebrew and he had 219 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 1: a context for what I was. For him, it was 220 00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: very you know, Israel's you're Yemen night that kema meis, 221 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: they would say. And so the same thing that happened 222 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: in kindergarten happened again. I just fell in love with 223 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: this kid in his accent, in addition to my dad's accent. 224 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: And so for that year we were just Israeli best 225 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,199 Speaker 1: friends and it was pleasurable to me again to feel 226 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: an identity. And often what I would do if I 227 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 1: didn't feel like I was being accepted is that you 228 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: kind of choose an identity that other people can't have. 229 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 1: But in that moment, it made the difference to the 230 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: fact that I was different and wasn't accepted, and I 231 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,199 Speaker 1: was this kid who took medication in the morning and 232 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: had this eating phobia. Well, here's this thing that differentiates 233 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: me in a cool way, or in a funny way. 234 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,719 Speaker 1: And so that's I leaned into it. 235 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: You know, So, when you're around nine, you stand up 236 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 2: to Meridis like really for the first time, and it's 237 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: it's around this whole idea of, you know, the kinds 238 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 2: of things that this inner voice is saying to you, 239 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 2: which is that if you consume food and of you 240 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,080 Speaker 2: know someone with a disability, you know, the world is 241 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,800 Speaker 2: going to explode. And you test out really for the 242 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,120 Speaker 2: first time, whether that's in fact true. You kind of 243 00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 2: go a mono with Meredith and discover that the world 244 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 2: isn't going to explode. 245 00:14:16,880 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: I do I do if I remember the feeling in 246 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: my body. What actually urged me to do that was 247 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,200 Speaker 1: that my grandparents, my mom's parents, would take my sister 248 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: and I on trips and my grandmother would get really, 249 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: really fussy when I wouldn't eat, and I didn't know 250 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: how to explain it to her. And this lasts for 251 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: two three years, and she was going to take my 252 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: sister and I to Mexico, and I thought to myself, 253 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: I really deserve to enjoy Mexico as a nine year old. 254 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 1: And so I remember this sort of surge of power 255 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 1: that came into my body, this knowingness this, you kind 256 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: of step out of your body to achieve something even 257 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: though you're very scared, and it's something that I still 258 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: use to this day. It's the same and that gets 259 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: me on stage right like it's a scary thing that 260 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 1: you're doing, but this other part of you takes hold. 261 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: And I learned at that time that was called my willpower. 262 00:15:10,040 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 1: And so I remember telling my mom, I'm ready. And 263 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: what's funny is I had already stopped the therapy with this, 264 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: my first therapist who had had this whole plan of 265 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: we neing me off my fear, and I said to 266 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,200 Speaker 1: my mom, I'm done. I got back home, I said 267 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 1: I'm done, and she didn't believe me, and I and 268 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: I took a lot of pride in the fact that 269 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: I would prove her on and so we did that. 270 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: We went to the street corner on College and Ashby. 271 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: It's my favorite place during fluff donuts. We got a 272 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,680 Speaker 1: dozen donut holes. I waited for somebody with a wheelchair 273 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: and just stuffed my mouth and my mom couldn't believe it. 274 00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 1: She later told me that she called the therapists it 275 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: worked this way, said just don't do anything, just if 276 00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: he believes it just let it be. And so it 277 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: was a triumph, and it was out of body, and 278 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: I felt, it's so, it's funny. It's like something clicked 279 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: in my brain and I decided I was done with it, 280 00:16:04,480 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: which set the stage for a relationship with my obsessive 281 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: pupulsey disorder that later in life I learned could not 282 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: be willed out of myself. You can be brave in 283 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: the face of fear, but you cannot will yourself out 284 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: of that relationship. And at the time I thought that 285 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: I could right. 286 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: Well, and it's a relationship that keeps on morphing. Yes, 287 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 2: we'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 288 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 2: On September eleventh, two thousand and one, Ari is ten 289 00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: years old. After the terrorist attacks, Ari sees brown faces 290 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 2: on television for the first time. He thinks they look 291 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: like Abba and asks Abba, are we Arab? And Abba responds, no, 292 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 2: we're Jewish, We're Yemeny Jews. In the wake of nine 293 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,359 Speaker 2: eleven and Ari encounters the fear and hatred of Muslims 294 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: so prevalent at that time, and since he's easily mistaken 295 00:17:07,320 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 2: for Muslim, he makes a decision to shape shift once more. 296 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: He decides to be white. 297 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: Nine to eleven was completely transformative to my life, you know, 298 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 1: And just to speak to some of the new ones, 299 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:26,000 Speaker 1: there is that complicated nature of it because my dad, 300 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: as someone who had an Israeli identity, did not feel 301 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: in any way, shape or form connected to this event 302 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: that happened in our country, even though we were being 303 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: pegged as such. So I, after the eating phobia and 304 00:17:40,840 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: all the other weird things that happened at Jewish day 305 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,480 Speaker 1: school and then being teased and having my dad be 306 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,399 Speaker 1: called those solid and moden, I thought I gotta restart. 307 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: I gotta start fresh. You gotta start fresh. And I 308 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 1: had this fantasy of fitting in with other white kids, 309 00:17:56,640 --> 00:18:00,399 Speaker 1: and I thought that if I put it up in 310 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: my hair that I could look like Ross s Geller 311 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: from friends that would watch all the time. And I 312 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 1: had this whole sort of idea that if I just 313 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 1: you know, have the right wardrobe and I'm a little 314 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 1: more attentive to how I come across that all that 315 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: I could be popular, that I can be liked. It 316 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 1: also coincided with my dad moving to a suburb where 317 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: it was really ninety five percent white, and so I 318 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: remember that summer and deciding that I needed to start fresh. 319 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: And I showed up at the school and it worked 320 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: well for as long as it worked. That you know, 321 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: I came in with skater shoes and the hair. And 322 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: the big thing was changing my name for Ariel to Ari. 323 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: I thought that could sort of camouflage me. And I 324 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: also thought that taking my dad's last name Yeshiyahoo and 325 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:56,280 Speaker 1: just taking my mom's last name, Statuel, it would sort 326 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: of give me space to be I wanted to be, 327 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,919 Speaker 1: or whoever I wanted to create myself to be. So 328 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,960 Speaker 1: it worked until obviously it didn't. 329 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 2: Well that could be the story of so much of 330 00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 2: your young years, right, It's like it worked until it didn't. 331 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: Yes your theme. 332 00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: One of Ari's good friends at the time is a 333 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 2: boy named Jared. Jared is white and well so is 334 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,440 Speaker 2: Ari for now. But one day Jared drops Ari off 335 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 2: at home and he sees Abba. Jared turns to Ari 336 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: and says, I didn't know the Taliban was among us. 337 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,880 Speaker 2: For the first time, Ari must reckon with the very 338 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 2: real shame he feels about his father, his appearance, his accent. 339 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 2: He'd felt hints of this shame earlier, but now it's 340 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: cemented he doesn't want people meeting his Abba. 341 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: By sixth grade, you're sort of more aware of who 342 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 1: you are in the world. And I would say that, yes, 343 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, Abba became something that made me feel very 344 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 1: different and associated me with something that I really didn't 345 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: want to be associated with. 346 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he blew your cover. 347 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,239 Speaker 1: I mean he he certainly did. 348 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: It couldn't be all those It couldn't be those other 349 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,119 Speaker 2: identities that you were trying on if Aba showed up. 350 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,520 Speaker 1: Not at all, that's exactly right. I'll also say that 351 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: it was it was stressful going to this new school 352 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: because even my mom, who is quote unquote white presenting, 353 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: was Jewish and we didn't live life like Jared AND's 354 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 1: family live life should know, So so there was like 355 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: a lot of tension. And I don't think I knew 356 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:45,199 Speaker 1: how much energy it took so much energy to go 357 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,400 Speaker 1: to school and put on this mask, which I'm sure 358 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,120 Speaker 1: most kids do. I don't think that it's unique kids 359 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: trying to fit in, but to the extent that I did, 360 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: and learning that my dad would someone would blow my cover. 361 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,640 Speaker 1: After that point, yeah, that was a really big stressor. 362 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 2: And so then in seventh grade, a black kid comes 363 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 2: to the school and assumes you're black. Yes, and his 364 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 2: name's Rob, and he's he's a basketball player and you're 365 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,520 Speaker 2: playing basketball, and I talk a little bit about that, 366 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: like what happens there. 367 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: I don't know how it works for most is, but 368 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: for Yemen Night kids. In my particular DNA, my hair 369 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: got really curly from sixth to seventh grade, and so 370 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I was able to sort of go from ross Geller 371 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,200 Speaker 1: hair to like having a sort of a jew fro, 372 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: which to him looked like an afro. And again it 373 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,479 Speaker 1: was the same feeling that I had with elementary school 374 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: of oh my god, you know, in literally in one day, 375 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: this kid throws a basketball at me, calls me the 376 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:57,199 Speaker 1: N word, and it was like, in one second, I 377 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: completely redefined my social reality way that I was out 378 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: of options. By that point. There wasn't another option. It 379 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:06,879 Speaker 1: didn't it didn't occur to me that there was this 380 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:11,120 Speaker 1: other way of being in the world. And again it 381 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: was something as I described it would happen to the 382 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,880 Speaker 1: Jewish school. Well, the one status that I felt was well, 383 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: I can speak Hebrew, and so during Hebrew class I 384 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: have an edge here and at this other all white school, 385 00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 1: I have brown skin. And now my hair is curlier, 386 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: and so I can sort of contort my looks and 387 00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:38,399 Speaker 1: my speech and my clothing to gang status. And that coincided, 388 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: you know, at a time where like gangster rap was 389 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: the coolest thing, and everyone loved gangster rap. It didn't 390 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: matter if you were in the suburbs or you were 391 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: in the inner city, like it was the coolest thing. 392 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,199 Speaker 1: And so me and this kid were sort of cosplaying 393 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 1: as gangsters and it was awesome. It was really fun, 394 00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:57,399 Speaker 1: really really fun. 395 00:22:57,760 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 2: And you made the basketball team. 396 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,440 Speaker 1: I made the badotball team, and we would just kick 397 00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: people's asses during the day, and all of a sudden, 398 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,000 Speaker 1: we sort of instilled fear in other kids because we 399 00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,679 Speaker 1: had something they didn't. We were the culture, you know. 400 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 1: And it was like at this like totally like waspy 401 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,119 Speaker 1: suburban middle school in the outskirts of San Francisco Bay Area, 402 00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: Like we were just living our fantasy, just playing basketball, 403 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: listening to rap music, just all these stereotypical things. But 404 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:28,439 Speaker 1: we felt like we were on top of the world, 405 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: and we dreamed that we would be NBA players together 406 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: and it was it's so funny. As I go through 407 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: these moments, my chest either opens or contracts on what 408 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,120 Speaker 1: memory I'm talking about. But I'm feeling my chest open 409 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 1: up as I talk to you about this, because I mean, 410 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: what a transformative moment. And it was like, this is it, 411 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: this is it, Like I found the answer with this 412 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: with my with my buddy Robert, and it felt I 413 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: still I love the kid. I texted in even today. 414 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 2: And you were, you know, also like part of his family, right, 415 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: like you were spending time with his grandmother and his 416 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: like sort of extended family. 417 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:11,760 Speaker 1: And yeah, it was the first time that there wasn't 418 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: any qualification for what I was. They didn't care. They 419 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,560 Speaker 1: just accepted me. In every other environment I'd been in, 420 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,639 Speaker 1: it was like, oh, well you're half Yemen ight, and 421 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: you're half Ashkenazi. And at the Jewish school there was 422 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:28,040 Speaker 1: this focus on placing and identifying and putting into a 423 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,160 Speaker 1: box and labeling. And at Robert's home, it was just love. 424 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,119 Speaker 1: And they took me in and his grandmother and his 425 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: grandfather's grandfather would pick us up a blast rap music 426 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: and grandmother would get there and she just she had 427 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: me call her grandmother. So there was his granddad, grandmother 428 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: an Denise, Auntie Denise, and she would cook us this 429 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,639 Speaker 1: amazing soul food and with like the best chicken and 430 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: collar greaves, and it was it was unbelievable to me, 431 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: and it was delicious. But it was a degree of 432 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,360 Speaker 1: acceptance that I didn't even find in my own household 433 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: because hearkening back, right, I had this Israeli Yemeni father 434 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: who had opinions about my American mother and vice versa, right, 435 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: and so there wasn't really alignment in my own household. 436 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: There Robert's house, it was just love and it was acceptance, 437 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: and I loved it. 438 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 2: And it sounds like even when Aba blueyar Cover, you know, 439 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:35,320 Speaker 2: when they made Abba, it doesn't have the same before 440 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,960 Speaker 2: and after, Like oh, I mean Rob kind of makes 441 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: fun of you and he calls you he's like. 442 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: Hinduinian, like curry Hinduinian. Yes, correct, but it's like it seems. 443 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:53,480 Speaker 2: Kind of playful and not really toxic in the way 444 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: that some of these other encounters were. 445 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: Well, when me and Robert were living in our fantasy world, 446 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,359 Speaker 1: it was the greatest thing in the world world, but 447 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: he always had this edge on me. At the end 448 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: of the day, I was this Hinduinian, right, and it 449 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: didn't sit right with me. And it was like it's 450 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,639 Speaker 1: debilitating and it's emasculating, and I don't even know if 451 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:18,919 Speaker 1: I want to associate it with masculinity, but it's like 452 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 1: it was like this secret because Robert and I continued 453 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: our charade at school even after he met my dad. 454 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: Between he and I, there was this imbalance, and there 455 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 1: was like, at the end of the day, rather than 456 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,760 Speaker 1: having this fantasy of being this equal and this black kid, 457 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: I was now this like weird Middle Eastern kid who 458 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:40,679 Speaker 1: was pretending with Robert. But he knew the truth and 459 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,640 Speaker 1: I knew the truth, and I didn't like that because 460 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,360 Speaker 1: by that point I was really really embarrassed. I mean 461 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: I would go back after school and share at myself 462 00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: in the mirror for like hours and just adjusting the 463 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: position of my face and asking myself, do I look 464 00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: more Middle Eastern or do I look black. I would 465 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: have these conversation with myself because it was so intense 466 00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:06,480 Speaker 1: for me to feel like an other and to feel 467 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,680 Speaker 1: like a yeminick. And if someone asked, are you Middle 468 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: Eastern or you would say that, I would get hot, 469 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: my face would get right, and I would feel my 470 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: entire body heat up, and so yes, it was playful, 471 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 1: but underneath the playfulness was this real feeling of alienation. 472 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,520 Speaker 2: For me, Well, that makes so much sense because in 473 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 2: the joyful part that you were talking about, you were 474 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,199 Speaker 2: fully in it. The fourth wall hadn't come down or 475 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 2: you know, yes, and then after that you know that 476 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: on some level you're pretending. 477 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,719 Speaker 1: Yet I felt like I can handle the pain. I 478 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 1: can handle the pretending as long as no one else knows. 479 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: But if other people know, then I'm it just poisoned 480 00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:53,160 Speaker 1: the freedom that I felt. 481 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 2: Toward the end of eighth grade, Ari is at a 482 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 2: basketball camp. He's continuing to pass as black, and he's 483 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: hanging out with his friend Josh, who's one of the 484 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: few other black kids at this sleepway camp. Most of 485 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,639 Speaker 2: the other kids are Jewish and from the suburbs. But 486 00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 2: then it happens again, Aba shows up. 487 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: It was this magical week with this kid. It was 488 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:21,040 Speaker 1: like Robert on steroids. It was like I felt totally free, 489 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,480 Speaker 1: I felt totally cool, totally accepted. There weren't other kids 490 00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: at the school. It was just like complete reinvention. And 491 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,600 Speaker 1: at the end, my dad came to surprise by picking 492 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 1: me up and this kid looks at me. He's like yo, 493 00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:36,399 Speaker 1: daddy a rep and I scuttled the kid away and 494 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: I made up a story. We're a terrible things. Loving 495 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 1: father comes and just paralyzes me with fear. That is 496 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,120 Speaker 1: a moment that I'll never forget, and telling him that 497 00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,240 Speaker 1: I didn't actually have a dad, my real dad died, 498 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: that the guy who was there calling me his dad 499 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,080 Speaker 1: was an uncle through marriage. That was what my thirteen 500 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,960 Speaker 1: year old brain came up with. Remember that car ride 501 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:06,760 Speaker 1: home and this sort of dissonance I felt with my dad, 502 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 1: who I love so much, and this lie that I 503 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: just told and this life that felt so good to 504 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:18,800 Speaker 1: me there, and that ultimately is would catalyzed me saying 505 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: I got to really start fresh, and I whatever I 506 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: had with that kid at camp, I want that all 507 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:25,920 Speaker 1: the time. And so that led me to the school. 508 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: And so, to be honest with you, high school, I 509 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: was much more calculated. It was that experience of that 510 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 1: camp that led me to feel them. It felt better 511 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: than with Robert because Robert had this secret, but that 512 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: kid didn't until the very end of the week. 513 00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 2: And so then in high school, is what you mean 514 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 2: that you sort of like double down on. 515 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 1: That, I got smarter about it, so again, new wardrobe, 516 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:57,520 Speaker 1: haircut speech, and it was like a deeper commitment to 517 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: this identity that I wasn't fully able to live in 518 00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,600 Speaker 1: in middle school because because it sort of was sprung 519 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: on me with Robert. But this time it was a 520 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: little more rehearsed, and it was pretty amazing to show 521 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: up at that school. And it was Berkeley High School, 522 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: which was I would say, fifty percent black, you know, 523 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: I was. It wasn't, it wasn't predominant, but it was, 524 00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: like me, fifty percent. But that was the only social 525 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 1: circle that I cared about, so I didn't even see 526 00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: the other kids. I only saw the black kids and 527 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: all these things that had not been good at my 528 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 1: Jewish day school, being told I was too brown, or 529 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: or learning in middle school that, you know, being called 530 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: Osama in the context of this black high school, my 531 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: physical attributes to really hot commodities in the black community 532 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,600 Speaker 1: because I was light skinned and I had what they 533 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: called good hair, which means that it's loose curls and 534 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,280 Speaker 1: not tight girls. And so all of a sudden, you know, 535 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: the way that I looked repurposed in this other context 536 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: was like the ultimate social status, and it was really unbelievable. 537 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: What was it like, I mean to go to sort 538 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: of your internal life during that time, It's like you 539 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 2: were having this experience that felt really powerful and you know, 540 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: exciting and joyful, and you were really popular, and like 541 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: the assumed identity was just like totally working for you. 542 00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,560 Speaker 2: And at the same time, you know, at the end 543 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: of the day, like a high school student, you're with 544 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 2: your you know, one of your parents. Did you feel 545 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: any kind of internal split, Like, what was it like 546 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,240 Speaker 2: during those years when you were with Abba, because you 547 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: were hiding him from everyone and yet at the same 548 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 2: time you had such a strong relationship with him. 549 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I mean it was It was a lot 550 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: of effort. It was a lot of work and a 551 00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,800 Speaker 1: lot of stress, and those surprise that the anxiety sort 552 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,320 Speaker 1: of started eating me alive later in life, But at 553 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: the time it felt like I was doing what I 554 00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:04,080 Speaker 1: needed to do. But my god, it was a lot 555 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 1: of work. It was like code switching at a level. 556 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 1: I mean, in some ways, it's like you leave home 557 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 1: and then you do an audition for an entire day, 558 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,880 Speaker 1: and then you go home back home, it was like 559 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,760 Speaker 1: the entire day was a performance. My entire social life 560 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,960 Speaker 1: was a performance, and so there was that. There was 561 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,760 Speaker 1: the fact that you know, my mom came from a 562 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: different bacu of my dad, and it was just really 563 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: very stressful. I remember. I mean it was like for 564 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: those four years of high school, being in public with 565 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: my dad was incredibly stressful. I was afraid I would 566 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: run into somebody. And it was even like going out 567 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 1: into like stores and you know, you know, seeing an 568 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: employee of I don't know, Whole Foods or wherever it 569 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: might be, and feeling like I couldn't really be the 570 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:57,480 Speaker 1: self that I wanted to be around my parents. And again, 571 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: this is like universal, it's just in my case, it 572 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: was this added layer of like wanting to be seen 573 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: as a different race than my dad. So it was 574 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: like the regular embarrassment of being with your parents layered 575 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:15,000 Speaker 1: on top of like I'm living this fictitious life, and 576 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: it was I mean, it was painful, but I didn't 577 00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: see it as that at the time. 578 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 2: Did you have that same experience if you were, say, 579 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 2: like out at Whole Foods with your mom, I mean 580 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: that would have also blown your cover. 581 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:29,200 Speaker 1: Mom didn't blow cover because I couldn't get away with 582 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: being fully black. So the story that I had is 583 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: that my mom was white and that my dad wasn't around, 584 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: and my dad was black, so mom mom was much 585 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,880 Speaker 1: safer to be with in public. 586 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 2: Ari skips his own graduation because he doesn't want his 587 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: dad yet again, to blow his cover. But he doesn't 588 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 2: just casually skip the graduation. He orchestrates a big story, 589 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 2: because that's what he does. 590 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: When you're a kid like me, you think five steps ahead. 591 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 1: So I said that I wanted to I was already 592 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: interested in traveling, and I wanted to visit my family 593 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,759 Speaker 1: in Israel. You always find a story that's really believable, 594 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: and you're five steps ahead, so you don't even say 595 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm skipping. You say I really want to go travel 596 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 1: and I miss them, and I don't care about my graduation, 597 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 1: all right. So I had always been really smart about 598 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:26,919 Speaker 1: coming up with excuses that would spare me from having 599 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:27,680 Speaker 1: to say the truth. 600 00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: So you moved to New York, you enroll at NYU. 601 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:38,879 Speaker 2: You're avoiding your father. It's been eight years of hiding him. 602 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,879 Speaker 2: And you say that it was taking a toll. How 603 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,120 Speaker 2: was it starting to take a toll? 604 00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: It was one thing to be in high school, and 605 00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: you know, as I described going and doing an audition 606 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,919 Speaker 1: or a performance all day and coming home and still 607 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,880 Speaker 1: having this sort of point of contact. It's an entirely 608 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:02,240 Speaker 1: different thing to be pursuing the career in a city 609 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: across the country that aims to be public and realizing like, 610 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: holy shit, when is this going to end? And it's 611 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: funny because as I say this to you, what I'm 612 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: thinking back to earlier part of the conversation. I was 613 00:35:17,000 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 1: talking about this enormous high with Robert on the basketball court. 614 00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: I don't think the kid who had that enormous high 615 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: thought about, well, what about when I go to college? 616 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: And acting is so much in relation to your identity 617 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,400 Speaker 1: and to who you are. And so I was acting 618 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 1: on top of acting, right like I had this persona, 619 00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 1: and then on top of that persona, I was studying acting. 620 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 2: When you moved to New York, you maintained the identity 621 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 2: from high school like you moved as a as a 622 00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 2: young black actor going to m YU. 623 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: I did as a young biracial half black actor. It 624 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,360 Speaker 1: was really interesting. It was like there was the Robert 625 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,759 Speaker 1: phase of blackness, was just this middle school kid on 626 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: the playground, and then there was the the high school phase, 627 00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: which was more calculated and basketball and arts and whatever. 628 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 1: And then by college it was like this there was 629 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,799 Speaker 1: a new layer of blackness, which was sort of an 630 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: intellectual blackness. Like I started joining these groups that were 631 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,840 Speaker 1: racial and social justice groups, and so like we'd gainst 632 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: these very high level conversations of that identity and about race, 633 00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:24,600 Speaker 1: and I was participating in those conversations those groups as 634 00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:26,359 Speaker 1: a half black kid. 635 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:32,400 Speaker 2: So you un enroll from NYU. Does something precipitate that 636 00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:35,480 Speaker 2: or is it just this kind of blanket, overwhelming feeling 637 00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 2: of I cannot keep this up. 638 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 1: I wasn't doing well. I started failing a couple classes 639 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:47,720 Speaker 1: or taking incompletes on a couple and there was this real, 640 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:53,880 Speaker 1: real fear of continuing on this trajectory of hiding myself. 641 00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,920 Speaker 1: It was just like it was becoming too stressful and 642 00:36:56,960 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 1: the stakes felt like they were too high, and I 643 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: started to get to an age where it didn't sit 644 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: right anymore. I was conscious of it in a way 645 00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:09,880 Speaker 1: that I was never conscious before, and so I thought, 646 00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 1: get out of here, let's go home. 647 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 2: And where was Meredith during all of this? Was she 648 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 2: relatively kind of quiet before she kind of ended up 649 00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 2: coming growing back. 650 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: I don't think that she was ever quite but merit 651 00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: at that times works on autopilot, right, and so like 652 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,640 Speaker 1: you're doing your little touching rituals and all the other things, 653 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,640 Speaker 1: and that's just sort of like a daily merit it 654 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,680 Speaker 1: sort of exerting your control. In regards to the macro 655 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: fear of, you know, leaving a school. I think that 656 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 1: she certainly was a part of it, which was like, 657 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,280 Speaker 1: run away from something that's not safe, and if I'm 658 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 1: moving in a direction that is going to expose me, 659 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,960 Speaker 1: then get out of it. And I think that is 660 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: where she was at the time, And so it was 661 00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 1: fear that said, I gotta just run away from from 662 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 1: a situation that feels like it could expose me. 663 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, you have a really moving line in your play, 664 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 2: which is I was giving up my dreams to keep 665 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:08,600 Speaker 2: my cover. 666 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 1: But there are these moments where I ari have to 667 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: face Meredith, and there are these critical junctures in my 668 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,279 Speaker 1: life where I have to make a decision that's going 669 00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:28,240 Speaker 1: to scare this shit out of Meredith because I already 670 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,160 Speaker 1: believe that on the other side of basing Meredith is 671 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:36,040 Speaker 1: something better. And there was a lot of innertention. It 672 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 1: was starting to weigh on me, and that the solution 673 00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:42,720 Speaker 1: of hiding behind an identity was feeling unsustainable. 674 00:38:52,320 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 2: We'll be back in a moment with more family secrets. 675 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 2: After spending the summer at home, Ari realizes he has 676 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 2: to go back. Acting. Isn't just some hobby or dream, 677 00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:22,359 Speaker 2: it's his calling. Back at NYU, his theater professor Kent 678 00:39:22,520 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 2: assigns something called an auto drama, a raw personal solo piece. 679 00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 2: In many ways, this brings things back full circle to 680 00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 2: Ari standing in front of his third grade class saying, 681 00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 2: I have something called OCD and her name is Meredith. 682 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: I was so lit up by that assignment. This other 683 00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:50,399 Speaker 1: force gave me this courage, and it had to be done. 684 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,000 Speaker 1: It had to be done. It was like it was 685 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,160 Speaker 1: no longer sustainable for me to live in this lie play. 686 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,000 Speaker 1: And I went through my life and exposed each of 687 00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: the moments in which lies continued to compound on themselves 688 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 1: and fest up to each and everything, culminating of course, 689 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 1: and like this is my actual identity, Like I'm this 690 00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 1: Yemenite Israeli Ashkenazi kid, and I'm not who I've said 691 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,600 Speaker 1: that I was. And you know, the professor is African 692 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:30,520 Speaker 1: American can gosh, and so there is a bond that 693 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:34,560 Speaker 1: I had with him under the guise that I was 694 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: the fellow black human beings students. So it was really 695 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: really massive to say that specifically to him. And I 696 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:50,360 Speaker 1: felt like I was going to lose the mentorship, the connection, 697 00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 1: the love, all these wonderful, genuine, warm feelings of connection 698 00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:58,680 Speaker 1: that I had with my mentor by coming out with this, 699 00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:00,920 Speaker 1: and yet I couldn't do it anymore. It was it 700 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,319 Speaker 1: was just making me sick. And I came out and 701 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: the world didn't explode a lava. It was cathartic and 702 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: also very frightening. 703 00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 2: And what Ken does is you finished this whole performance. 704 00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:18,440 Speaker 2: That's not a performance, right, And he says, it's really 705 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 2: unbelievable what burdens the world puts on us for being us. 706 00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a sigh of relief for me. What 707 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:28,919 Speaker 1: a brilliant thing for him to say. That's what he said. 708 00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,560 Speaker 1: Those are the exact words. And then began the journey 709 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,720 Speaker 1: of understanding what it meant for me to be quote 710 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 1: unquote Middle Eastern. That's what I thought. I thought, Well, 711 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:40,839 Speaker 1: if I'm not black, then in Middle Eastern, what does 712 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:44,839 Speaker 1: that mean? And that was a really challenging process because 713 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,080 Speaker 1: it's like, Okay, well I have this way of talking, 714 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,040 Speaker 1: so do I change that now? And my labs will 715 00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,120 Speaker 1: talk I used to talk. How do I deal with 716 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 1: all the friendships that I've created under this false identity? 717 00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,759 Speaker 1: There was a lot of logistics to handle it. It's 718 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,520 Speaker 1: almost like you know when someone dies and you get 719 00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: into sort of like all the paperwork and choosing the 720 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,879 Speaker 1: I don't mean to be so morbid, but like there's 721 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,440 Speaker 1: all these comedies about debt where people then have to 722 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 1: sort of get right into logistics, and I feel like 723 00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:13,920 Speaker 1: that's what happened to me. It was like I was 724 00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,239 Speaker 1: mourning this old identity, but then how the hell do 725 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: I rebuild? And this entire vision I had for the 726 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: career that I wanted, for the roles that I wanted 727 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: to play for all of these things changed and so 728 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: that was a really interesting journey to embark on. 729 00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 2: Did you make a list of people and you know, 730 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 2: just begin to have conversations with them or was it 731 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 2: more organic than that? 732 00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: It was more organic. It was more of like, you know, 733 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,839 Speaker 1: there was the classmates in school accepted me, and we're 734 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: more or less okay and understanding when it was more 735 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:51,840 Speaker 1: so about how do I build new community that is 736 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:59,080 Speaker 1: in alignment with who I now say that I am. 737 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,440 Speaker 2: Ari's embark on his career. He's auditioning regularly and as 738 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 2: part of a group of actors who call themselves Manassa 739 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:12,200 Speaker 2: Middle Eastern, North African and South Asian actors finally an 740 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:16,360 Speaker 2: identity group in which Ari actually belongs. The group forms 741 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,280 Speaker 2: in part as a response to an off Broadway show, 742 00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:23,880 Speaker 2: a Middle Eastern off Broadway show called The Band's Visit. 743 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 1: The group formed in a friend's living room around the 744 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 1: time that The Band's Visit was originally announced as an 745 00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,279 Speaker 1: off Broadway production at the Atlantic Theater Company, and a 746 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,480 Speaker 1: lot of us weren't getting auditions for it. We couldn't 747 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,080 Speaker 1: get seen for it, or we wouldn't get cast. And 748 00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: we were seeing the cast of The Band's Visit get 749 00:43:44,040 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 1: populated by actors who didn't even have roots in the region, 750 00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:51,080 Speaker 1: and we thought to ourselves, like, no, what every other 751 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:53,720 Speaker 1: group seems to be protected when it comes to casting 752 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,160 Speaker 1: except for us, And this is the first time there's 753 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,080 Speaker 1: a Middle Eastern show and we're not being cast in 754 00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: it no way. So we start this group and the 755 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:05,720 Speaker 1: umbrella is pretty wide Middle Eastern, North African, South Asian. 756 00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:09,959 Speaker 1: And there's two things happening. For me. On a personal level, 757 00:44:10,040 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: I'm just starting to feel comfortable saying that I'm Middle 758 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,640 Speaker 1: Eastern and auditioning for Middle Eastern roles. And on the 759 00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:20,000 Speaker 1: other hand, we're now fighting for our voices and our 760 00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:23,840 Speaker 1: community to get the roles in stories that are about 761 00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: our ancestors and or about cultures that we belong to, 762 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 1: whether it's our parents or us. Right. But it started 763 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:36,600 Speaker 1: to fracture because there'd be Indian roles that auditioned for 764 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,440 Speaker 1: and I would and I remember getting told there was 765 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: a show at Williamstown where he wants to offer to me, 766 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,799 Speaker 1: but then the writer back said, we can't get this 767 00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,919 Speaker 1: to a non Indian actor, but that same treatment wasn't 768 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: beginning to Middle Eastern roles, and that the Middle Eastern 769 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,600 Speaker 1: roles would be open to anybody under the umbrella of Manasa. 770 00:44:55,680 --> 00:45:00,920 Speaker 1: And so there started to be infighting because it felt 771 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,680 Speaker 1: like there was an agreement on who could play what 772 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 1: and nonetheless who were all really pissed that show in 773 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:12,400 Speaker 1: general wasn't using explicitly Middle Eastern actors And for me, 774 00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,040 Speaker 1: not only was I upset that it wasn't using Middle 775 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:18,200 Speaker 1: Eastern actors for the Egyptian characters. I was also set 776 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: that they weren't using Middle Eastern actors for the Israeli 777 00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:23,080 Speaker 1: roles because the actual town the band that is based 778 00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:27,800 Speaker 1: on is mostly Moroccan and Yemeny immigrants in the south 779 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: of Israel. But ultimately we start this small lobbing in 780 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,280 Speaker 1: group and the band's visit has another round of auditions 781 00:45:37,280 --> 00:45:42,799 Speaker 1: in another round, and after seven auditions over nine months, I 782 00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,800 Speaker 1: got to part and I felt like so in alignment, 783 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,600 Speaker 1: like I am playing a Middle Eastern role. I've been 784 00:45:49,640 --> 00:45:53,080 Speaker 1: waiting for this. Everything feels aligned for me. I was 785 00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:55,920 Speaker 1: hiding my whole life. Now I get to play this 786 00:45:56,640 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: strapping Middle Eastern leading man. Only from ANASA members to 787 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,200 Speaker 1: be upset because I Ari is rarely was taking an 788 00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: Egyptian role, and there was frustration. An actor said that 789 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,239 Speaker 1: I was settling on their roles, and so, you know, 790 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:20,440 Speaker 1: I played the role, but it wasn't necessarily embraced entirely 791 00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:24,239 Speaker 1: by people within the community. As we continue to sort 792 00:46:24,239 --> 00:46:27,480 Speaker 1: of get more and more granular about who can play what. 793 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:29,840 Speaker 1: I didn't even know what to say at that point. 794 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I felt i'd spent so long not embracing 795 00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,160 Speaker 1: who I was. I finally felt like I was embracing 796 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:36,839 Speaker 1: who I was. But as it turned out, that wasn't 797 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,480 Speaker 1: who I was. And I later came to the conclusion 798 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: that it wasn't who I was. But at the time, 799 00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,000 Speaker 1: after spending so many years hiding my father on the 800 00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:49,800 Speaker 1: basis that he was Middle Eastern, it felt really cathartic 801 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,760 Speaker 1: to play a role that was Middle Eastern. 802 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,800 Speaker 2: And it sounds like kind of like during that time, 803 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:59,760 Speaker 2: after you get the part and it's this tremendous success 804 00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 2: in this great run and you're nominated for a Tony 805 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,520 Speaker 2: and then you win a Tony, you know this is 806 00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:11,360 Speaker 2: a dream. And yet at the same time, inwardly it 807 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 2: seems like there's also I mean, Meredith is like not 808 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:21,279 Speaker 2: in autopilot, no, And there's this relationship that you have 809 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:25,319 Speaker 2: to sweating that has come and gone over the years, 810 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,120 Speaker 2: but has become this you know, you're on stage and 811 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,040 Speaker 2: you're doing interviews, and you're in situations where it's not 812 00:47:32,120 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 2: just a minor thing, it's a huge liability, and you 813 00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,600 Speaker 2: have all of these different ways of stories around why 814 00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:41,480 Speaker 2: you're sweating. You know, just more like thinking five steps 815 00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:42,880 Speaker 2: ahead of you know, I'm going to come up with 816 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,239 Speaker 2: a story to make this sweating be reasonable. But I 817 00:47:45,239 --> 00:47:47,759 Speaker 2: mean the way that you describe it, when the show 818 00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:50,919 Speaker 2: closes after about a year and a half, what you 819 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:54,160 Speaker 2: feel is this kind of tremendous relief. 820 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, merit. It's sort of evolved. So in the same 821 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,040 Speaker 1: way that in college, I sort of, you know, achieved 822 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,279 Speaker 1: this massive in the auto dramas, came out as Middle 823 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 1: easterned and that felt so so likes such a relief, 824 00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:09,800 Speaker 1: and then I had to deal with building an identity 825 00:48:09,800 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: as a Middle Eastern person. In this case, I achieved 826 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,240 Speaker 1: my dream of being on Broadway and being Middle Eastern, 827 00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:18,919 Speaker 1: and now I need to be a public person and 828 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,719 Speaker 1: I was not ready for that. And I've always had 829 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,400 Speaker 1: these very strange phobias. But the phobia that developed as 830 00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,560 Speaker 1: I got on Broadway was being around people, speaking to people, 831 00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:34,960 Speaker 1: sitting across from them, talking, being looked at. I mean, 832 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: everything every day felt like a living hell. It felt 833 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:46,240 Speaker 1: I hated being with people. It was frightening, and every 834 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 1: second felt stressful, and it was like I was just 835 00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,719 Speaker 1: going through any concoction of alcohol or xanax or of 836 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,759 Speaker 1: anything that could help me and frankly nothing did. I 837 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,960 Speaker 1: would just sit across from a person and just start shitzing, 838 00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:06,080 Speaker 1: and it just continued to build and build and build 839 00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:08,919 Speaker 1: to the point where just nothing felt safe, nothing felt good. 840 00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:12,360 Speaker 1: A friend's dad they said, man, you know you have 841 00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:16,000 Speaker 1: such an amazing life, why you're not celebrating? And I 842 00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:20,520 Speaker 1: couldn't explain that every day felt frightening. So yeah, when 843 00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: the show closed, it meant that I wasn't forced into 844 00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: a lot of social situations. Now, what's interesting is that 845 00:49:26,719 --> 00:49:29,799 Speaker 1: the show more often than not felt good to me. 846 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:31,560 Speaker 1: It was like, it wasn't every day that I get 847 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:33,879 Speaker 1: panic attacks, but when they came on during the show, 848 00:49:33,920 --> 00:49:37,080 Speaker 1: it was like utter hell. And so when it closed, 849 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:41,120 Speaker 1: it was like, I'm not forced into the Broadway social scene, 850 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:43,919 Speaker 1: which is people coming, they want to come after the show. 851 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,080 Speaker 1: They're asking you for drinks, they're asking you for dinners, 852 00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:50,960 Speaker 1: and people couldn't quite understand how someone who's performing live 853 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,200 Speaker 1: in front of a thousand people and having a solo 854 00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,840 Speaker 1: and winning an award like can't sit down for coffee 855 00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,520 Speaker 1: without panicking. And I didn't even know what was happening. 856 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:03,480 Speaker 1: And now that I look back a little bit, I 857 00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:06,360 Speaker 1: think It's like all of this, the tension that I 858 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:10,200 Speaker 1: felt around performing and being somebody who I wasn't, and 859 00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden achieving all these things that I'd 860 00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,600 Speaker 1: always dreamed of, the validation I always dreamed of, but 861 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,040 Speaker 1: not quite feeling comfortable in my skin, and so it 862 00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:23,239 Speaker 1: would literally pour out of me my discomfort. And yeah, 863 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: so finishing the show was a great relief. It meant 864 00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:26,960 Speaker 1: that I didn't have to be forced into all those 865 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,560 Speaker 1: social settings. 866 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,160 Speaker 2: When Ari wins his Tony Award, he's just twenty six 867 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,600 Speaker 2: years old. This is the kind of success that most 868 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:44,360 Speaker 2: actors only dream of early, dazzling public, but not entirely 869 00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,680 Speaker 2: so for Ari. He's young, though it doesn't feel that 870 00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:50,480 Speaker 2: way at the time. That's the trick of your twenties. 871 00:50:50,800 --> 00:50:54,240 Speaker 2: You think you're all grown up. When the show closes, 872 00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,879 Speaker 2: instead of basking in the glow of his triumph, Ari 873 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,759 Speaker 2: flees goes as far as he can think to go 874 00:51:00,640 --> 00:51:07,280 Speaker 2: Kampala Uganda. He wants anonymity, adventure, distance, and there, among 875 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:11,680 Speaker 2: the warm strangers and unfamiliar streets, something shifts just a bit. 876 00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 2: The anxiety that's pulsed through him during the show, during 877 00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,040 Speaker 2: his life begins to loosen. 878 00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:23,080 Speaker 1: It was more tolerable because yeah, there wasn't that sort 879 00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:28,040 Speaker 1: of cutthroat New York judgmental environment, but it wasn't entirely away, 880 00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,040 Speaker 1: like I'd still get into sweat paintings. I mean, Mary 881 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:33,719 Speaker 1: doesn't sort of like retire just because you're in Uganda. 882 00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:35,560 Speaker 2: But I think you were hoping she would. 883 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:37,839 Speaker 1: I was hoping she would, but she didn't. But yeah, 884 00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,520 Speaker 1: I did end up meeting an interesting friend. 885 00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,320 Speaker 2: In Kampala, Ari meets a Ugandan young woman named Shila 886 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,080 Speaker 2: and they begin to spend time together. 887 00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:53,520 Speaker 1: So I'm taking my phone out and I'm filming from 888 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,600 Speaker 1: my iPhone in a very busy market and she tells 889 00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:57,520 Speaker 1: me to put the phone away, and I'm arrogant because 890 00:51:57,520 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm American, and I say no, no, no, I got it, 891 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,279 Speaker 1: and she says, but you're zoo and someone's gonna snatch it. 892 00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,960 Speaker 1: And say what is that? She said, yeah, amzomu, and 893 00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,120 Speaker 1: so what the hell is that? She said, you're a 894 00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,439 Speaker 1: white person and I said I'm white. She said, yes, 895 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,640 Speaker 1: I see all white. You are a mazomle. And so 896 00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:17,960 Speaker 1: I look around this market and there was a guy 897 00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:19,800 Speaker 1: there who was turned out he was German, but he 898 00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:23,399 Speaker 1: was super white looking, and you know, blonde and blue eyes. 899 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,080 Speaker 1: And I and I just run up to him, like, dude, said, 900 00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:26,319 Speaker 1: sheil a hold on for a second. Run to him, 901 00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: said due, can you just stand next to me so 902 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,360 Speaker 1: she can look at me next to you? And he 903 00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:31,520 Speaker 1: goes sure, And he thought it was weird, but he said, 904 00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:34,640 Speaker 1: no problem. And I stand next to him and I 905 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,400 Speaker 1: go back to her and I say, all right, that 906 00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: is white. I am not white. She goes, no, you're white. 907 00:52:38,600 --> 00:52:43,359 Speaker 1: You just have curly hair. I was like, oh, that's 908 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,799 Speaker 1: not that's not how I see things I saw. I 909 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,920 Speaker 1: tried to Protestant. No, I'm actually a Middle Eastern. She goes, no, 910 00:52:47,960 --> 00:52:50,120 Speaker 1: you're American. I'm like, I'm not American. She said, no, no, no, 911 00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:53,280 Speaker 1: you're so American. And uh. At the time, it wasn't 912 00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,120 Speaker 1: the most profound thing. It was just like, you know, 913 00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,879 Speaker 1: you got a woman called me American. But in retrospect, 914 00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,399 Speaker 1: I I think it's the first time I had been 915 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,239 Speaker 1: so definitively called American. 916 00:53:06,160 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, like that being the identity. 917 00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:13,640 Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. So looking back at my entire life and 918 00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:16,239 Speaker 1: all these things I did to fit in, and there 919 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:20,200 Speaker 1: was a simplicity in the way that she saw me 920 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:24,239 Speaker 1: and the thoughts on myself. Hmm, maybe that's the thing 921 00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:26,480 Speaker 1: that's been missing, and I had to go to a 922 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:28,719 Speaker 1: different country to just sort of get them. Well, that's 923 00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:31,200 Speaker 1: the thing. It's just American. That was it the whole time. 924 00:53:34,280 --> 00:53:36,759 Speaker 2: When Ari comes back home, he gets cast as a 925 00:53:36,800 --> 00:53:40,440 Speaker 2: Syrian refugee in a new show, but the pandemic happens 926 00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:43,200 Speaker 2: and the theater world, along with the rest of the world, 927 00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,279 Speaker 2: closes down. Ari ends up back home with Abba for 928 00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,200 Speaker 2: a while, and he has the time and space to 929 00:53:50,239 --> 00:53:54,839 Speaker 2: really think about identity, his identity, what does it mean 930 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:58,680 Speaker 2: for him to be American. He has long conversations about 931 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:02,080 Speaker 2: this with his friend Az, who's part of the Manassa group. 932 00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:06,879 Speaker 1: The George Floyd protests are happening, and there's these really 933 00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,000 Speaker 1: large conversations about America and American identity and who's American. 934 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,360 Speaker 1: And I think that a lot of people who didn't 935 00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:18,160 Speaker 1: fit into sort of the black white binary started thinking 936 00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,920 Speaker 1: a lot about their place as these larger conversations are 937 00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:26,400 Speaker 1: happening about equity and racial justice, etc. And so the 938 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,120 Speaker 1: big revelation for me was that this watershed moment I'd 939 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,520 Speaker 1: had being cast in the band's visit and feeling like 940 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:38,880 Speaker 1: I'd finally sort of tapped into the authenticity of who 941 00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,480 Speaker 1: I was was actually complete bullshit, and that myself and 942 00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:46,400 Speaker 1: it's these and this entire monossa group had been duped 943 00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:50,759 Speaker 1: into believing that that is what we were. And so 944 00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,279 Speaker 1: I'm having this sort of these like micro wars with 945 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,879 Speaker 1: other you know, South Asian, Middle Eastern North African kids 946 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:01,600 Speaker 1: about what roles we should or shouldn't play, ignoring the 947 00:55:01,680 --> 00:55:03,960 Speaker 1: fact that, like the bigger issue is that the only 948 00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:08,760 Speaker 1: things we're competitive for are roles that are in regions 949 00:55:08,760 --> 00:55:10,960 Speaker 1: where ancestors are from that where we're from. We're American, 950 00:55:11,320 --> 00:55:14,480 Speaker 1: And in that particular conversation we talked about you know, 951 00:55:14,520 --> 00:55:17,600 Speaker 1: clicking the box other which is something that I've checked 952 00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,960 Speaker 1: my entire life, and feeling like the experience I had 953 00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,759 Speaker 1: growing up was like there wasn't really space or understanding 954 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:26,399 Speaker 1: for what I was, and so I had to keep 955 00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:29,760 Speaker 1: clinging onto these identities that didn't really fit me, and 956 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,040 Speaker 1: that I didn't necessarily feel like I understood myself accurately, 957 00:55:33,080 --> 00:55:35,000 Speaker 1: and that like and that I was American and that 958 00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:41,400 Speaker 1: maybe that would sort of soothe this quest for self definition. 959 00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:49,239 Speaker 2: But then October seventh happens right right, Yeah, and that 960 00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,960 Speaker 2: changes a lot. 961 00:55:52,680 --> 00:55:56,719 Speaker 1: It does. I started this conversation with you saying that 962 00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,440 Speaker 1: I didn't necessarily feel like I connected to the Jewish 963 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:05,319 Speaker 1: identity at my Jewish day school growing up, but it 964 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,960 Speaker 1: was so clear to me after that happened how Jewish 965 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:11,960 Speaker 1: I was. And in spite of the fact that a 966 00:56:11,960 --> 00:56:14,640 Speaker 1: lot of my life was defined by my brown skin 967 00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:20,319 Speaker 1: and sort of trying to find an identity that would 968 00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:24,799 Speaker 1: help me fit in, I'm Jewish through and through, and 969 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:29,720 Speaker 1: I felt it on a molecular level. And I felt 970 00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:33,600 Speaker 1: like even the person who I was, even if I 971 00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: didn't recognize it as a kid, was equally shaped by 972 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,640 Speaker 1: my mom Hiroshkenazi identity, just as much as my dad's 973 00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:42,440 Speaker 1: Yemenite background and my dad's Yeminit background shape the food 974 00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:43,640 Speaker 1: that I like, the way that I look, but the 975 00:56:43,640 --> 00:56:47,880 Speaker 1: way that I think and the way that I process, 976 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:50,960 Speaker 1: and even the fact that, like you know, performing and 977 00:56:51,000 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: winning a Tony as an actor wasn't enough for me. 978 00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:56,000 Speaker 1: There was something inside of me and my DNA as 979 00:56:56,040 --> 00:57:00,200 Speaker 1: a thinker. On my mom's side, these these Jews who 980 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,520 Speaker 1: are who My grandfather was a physicist and my mom 981 00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:05,680 Speaker 1: and psychologist and these people who think deeply about this. 982 00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:09,239 Speaker 1: It made me feel very clear that I was unequivocally 983 00:57:09,320 --> 00:57:13,239 Speaker 1: Jewish in the way that I thought in my identity. 984 00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,400 Speaker 1: And so there was this sense of like, maybe this 985 00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,640 Speaker 1: is a clarity that I've been searching for. But at 986 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:24,040 Speaker 1: the same time, I feel Arab, and I've spent the 987 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: last ten years playing Arab roles and identifying with my 988 00:57:27,080 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: Arab peers. And my childhood was defined in many ways 989 00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:33,840 Speaker 1: by the fact that I was escaping my Arab identity. 990 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't running away from my Jewish identity as a kid, 991 00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,320 Speaker 1: I was running away from the fact that people thought 992 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,720 Speaker 1: of me as Arab, and I wanted anything but to 993 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:47,720 Speaker 1: be looked at as Arab. And so, you know, October seventh, 994 00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:51,360 Speaker 1: it just felt like as a son of an Israeli 995 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:57,080 Speaker 1: Yeminite and Ashkenasi American mother, it felt like you had 996 00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 1: to say something, and there's this sort of pressure for 997 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,520 Speaker 1: everyone to say something, and I wanted to say something 998 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,120 Speaker 1: of value. What is there to say? Blindly standing with 999 00:58:06,080 --> 00:58:08,320 Speaker 1: one side or another is just not the sort of 1000 00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:10,800 Speaker 1: nuance that I live in or believe in. And then 1001 00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:12,680 Speaker 1: it became clear to me as an artist. The only 1002 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,959 Speaker 1: thing that I could do was be personal and try 1003 00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,440 Speaker 1: to speak to a level of unity by saying, like 1004 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:22,600 Speaker 1: I have air of blood, I have Jewish blood, and 1005 00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:25,960 Speaker 1: they're actually intertwined. And I thought of that as being 1006 00:58:26,000 --> 00:58:29,840 Speaker 1: an offering that could help at least challenge some of 1007 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,840 Speaker 1: the rabbit anti Semitism that I was seeing. 1008 00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,880 Speaker 2: We're living in a moment in time when nuance feels 1009 00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:44,440 Speaker 2: nearly impossible, especially online. Social media leaves little room for 1010 00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:49,400 Speaker 2: complexity in our increasingly divisive world. But Ari does something 1011 00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:54,800 Speaker 2: to express himself. He posts a video honest, layered, vulnerable. 1012 00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:59,720 Speaker 2: In it, he attempts to reconcile what's happening by articulating 1013 00:59:00,040 --> 00:59:03,040 Speaker 2: the fullness, the nuance of his identity. 1014 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:10,959 Speaker 1: When I posted, I was just torched because people would 1015 00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,520 Speaker 1: hang on to a fraction of what I was saying 1016 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,880 Speaker 1: and say I was told the Zionists stop being a 1017 00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,000 Speaker 1: hamas apologist. I mean everything in the book that you 1018 00:59:21,040 --> 00:59:23,800 Speaker 1: could hear by showing a little bit of empathy and 1019 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,880 Speaker 1: trying to stand in the center. I've since evolved in 1020 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,520 Speaker 1: my thinking about that, and I'm not as affected as 1021 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:33,120 Speaker 1: I was then then. I was really sort of demoralized 1022 00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:37,640 Speaker 1: by the state of the world and the state of 1023 00:59:38,720 --> 00:59:41,960 Speaker 1: how binary and polarizing, how much hatred there is. I 1024 00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:46,400 Speaker 1: was really flattened by that. I don't feel that way today, 1025 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: but I did feel that way. Then. 1026 00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:53,600 Speaker 2: Is that what inspired you to, I mean, ultimately to 1027 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:55,840 Speaker 2: write the play that became Other? 1028 00:59:56,720 --> 01:00:00,600 Speaker 1: So I started writing it long before I'll Go seventh, 1029 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:03,640 Speaker 1: long before I started writing in twenty eighteen. I wrote 1030 01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:05,800 Speaker 1: it because I was I was in so much pain 1031 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:11,920 Speaker 1: and so uncomfortable that writing became a safe place for me. 1032 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,560 Speaker 1: And I felt that the complexity, the complexity of my 1033 01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,800 Speaker 1: life and the experiences I was having, and all these 1034 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:21,280 Speaker 1: different identities that I'd had sort of been both an 1035 01:00:21,320 --> 01:00:23,760 Speaker 1: insider and outsider of I needed to process it. And 1036 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,120 Speaker 1: so I started writing in twenty eighteen, and I knew 1037 01:00:26,160 --> 01:00:30,920 Speaker 1: that I wanted to get something out, And it just 1038 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,680 Speaker 1: so happened that in the journey of writing that play 1039 01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:37,160 Speaker 1: over the last six years, this major thing happened. And 1040 01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:40,480 Speaker 1: actually when Other first came out, it was titled Out 1041 01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,520 Speaker 1: of a Character. We opened it at Berkeley rep and 1042 01:00:42,560 --> 01:00:47,120 Speaker 1: that was pre October seventh, and of course post October seventh, 1043 01:00:47,160 --> 01:00:49,520 Speaker 1: every producer New York thought, it's got to be about 1044 01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:54,440 Speaker 1: October seventh, and my director was really protective to say, 1045 01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:57,120 Speaker 1: this is your story and we're not writing to people's 1046 01:00:57,120 --> 01:01:02,200 Speaker 1: political agendas. And so it took a lot of refinement 1047 01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:07,720 Speaker 1: and introspection to understand how to approach October seventh and 1048 01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:11,440 Speaker 1: a piece of art that wasn't ripped from the headlines, 1049 01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,000 Speaker 1: but something that felt evergreen. 1050 01:01:17,120 --> 01:01:20,880 Speaker 2: Ari writes his play, Meredith has begun to take a 1051 01:01:20,920 --> 01:01:23,880 Speaker 2: back seat, and there's a real shift in the way 1052 01:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,360 Speaker 2: Ari is now moving through his life. But he has 1053 01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,280 Speaker 2: one more important thing he needs to clean up. He 1054 01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:35,160 Speaker 2: needs Abba to know about his shame and fear. He 1055 01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:38,200 Speaker 2: needs to tell Abba the truth of their shared history 1056 01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:42,120 Speaker 2: and how it's impacted him, but he's terrified to do 1057 01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:46,360 Speaker 2: it in person. Instead, Abba comes to opening night of 1058 01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:50,160 Speaker 2: Ari's play when it's first staged in twenty twenty three 1059 01:01:50,240 --> 01:01:54,120 Speaker 2: at Berkeley rep. In Ari's play, there's a scene in 1060 01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,520 Speaker 2: which Ari confesses to Abba in a coffee shop. 1061 01:02:00,080 --> 01:02:02,880 Speaker 1: My dad is there, and I have this entire story, 1062 01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:06,520 Speaker 1: this entire part of my life that somehow interpersonally, I 1063 01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:08,480 Speaker 1: never felt the courage to share with him. But I 1064 01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,800 Speaker 1: felt this need to free myself and I'll just harken 1065 01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:15,880 Speaker 1: back to the kid with the Donah holes needed to 1066 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:18,240 Speaker 1: free himself. The kid in college need to free himself, 1067 01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:21,040 Speaker 1: and now the adult needs to free himself. And I 1068 01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,640 Speaker 1: needed to free myself and come clean about this anxiety 1069 01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:27,240 Speaker 1: that I've been trying to hide, about these secrets that 1070 01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,720 Speaker 1: I've been holding, and just start living an authentic life. 1071 01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,120 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, my dad came to opening night, and 1072 01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, the end of the play is, you know, 1073 01:02:37,040 --> 01:02:40,440 Speaker 1: my character me confessing to him these years that i'd 1074 01:02:40,440 --> 01:02:44,080 Speaker 1: spent hiding and telling people, you know, throughout high school 1075 01:02:44,080 --> 01:02:46,120 Speaker 1: that didn't have a dad, and my real dad was dead, 1076 01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,360 Speaker 1: and my dad sort of calmly accepting that and saying 1077 01:02:49,440 --> 01:02:52,360 Speaker 1: I'm his son. And so the meta experience was that 1078 01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:57,040 Speaker 1: I shared that with him on stage in the play 1079 01:02:57,480 --> 01:03:00,840 Speaker 1: while he was in the audience, and it nearly flattened him, 1080 01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:03,240 Speaker 1: but he ended up coming about eight more times and 1081 01:03:03,320 --> 01:03:07,520 Speaker 1: really started to appreciate the story. And it's very intense 1082 01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:09,880 Speaker 1: when he's in the audience, it's really intense for me 1083 01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,400 Speaker 1: as a performer in the play. 1084 01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,560 Speaker 2: He says to you, Ari, You've always been a special kid. 1085 01:03:16,920 --> 01:03:20,000 Speaker 2: You're my son. Let's enjoy the coffee, because right you're 1086 01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:26,560 Speaker 2: at a coffee shop was his reaction in real life? 1087 01:03:26,880 --> 01:03:29,720 Speaker 2: I mean it sounds like his coming eight times to 1088 01:03:29,720 --> 01:03:32,320 Speaker 2: see the play is a version. 1089 01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,880 Speaker 1: Of that, right. Yes, yeah, for sure he did use 1090 01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,760 Speaker 1: those exact words, but that's that's the words that I 1091 01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:42,320 Speaker 1: believe he would have said if that exact conversation happens. 1092 01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:45,400 Speaker 1: But he's just proud of me, and I think it 1093 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,080 Speaker 1: was a lot, you know, for him to see. But 1094 01:03:49,440 --> 01:03:52,840 Speaker 1: he stayed supportive. And I think the longer the play goes, 1095 01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:55,120 Speaker 1: and how we've had multiple productions each time, he's able 1096 01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: to sort of enjoy it more. And it's life. I 1097 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,280 Speaker 1: don't know what to say. I mean, it's just life. Yeah, 1098 01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:02,320 Speaker 1: I'm kind of at a loss because it's like, what 1099 01:04:02,360 --> 01:04:04,120 Speaker 1: do you do what you can't recover those years you 1100 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,240 Speaker 1: can't change or to app and you just share your 1101 01:04:06,240 --> 01:04:08,720 Speaker 1: truth so you could have a more authentic relationship you 1102 01:04:08,880 --> 01:04:09,560 Speaker 1: and you move forward. 1103 01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:25,600 Speaker 2: Family Secrets is a production of iHeartRadio. Molly's Zakoor is 1104 01:04:25,600 --> 01:04:28,360 Speaker 2: the story editor. If you have a family secret you'd 1105 01:04:28,400 --> 01:04:30,800 Speaker 2: like to share, please leave us a voicemail and your 1106 01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:34,160 Speaker 2: story could appear on an upcoming episode. Our number is 1107 01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:38,320 Speaker 2: one eight eight eight Secret zero. That's the number zero. 1108 01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:43,320 Speaker 2: You can also find me on Instagram at Daniwriter, and 1109 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,160 Speaker 2: if you'd like to know more about the story that 1110 01:04:45,200 --> 01:04:48,640 Speaker 2: inspired this podcast, check out my memoir Inheritance. 1111 01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:07,640 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1112 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:09,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.