WEBVTT - The Gamification of Life – Lab 065 0:00:00.760 --> 0:00:05.200 Tt my thermostat empower Bill tell me like, hey, you 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:10.160 know you're using twenty percent less electricity than your neighbor. 0:00:10.840 --> 0:00:13.680 And I would always tell people I'm not competitive, but baby, 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.680 I want to be number one. Okay, I want to 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.079 use so little electricity. I'm turning the lights off. I'm 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.240 doing everything they taught us dark I'm just shuffling around. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:25.160 I'm like, oh, is it hot? I will switch into 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:28.760 a tank top. Okay. I want to use so little 0:00:28.760 --> 0:00:31.440 electricity that they think this home is vacant. 0:00:31.320 --> 0:00:32.080 Just so you can win. 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.680 I want to win. I want to win. I am 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:36.879 not ashamed. I want to win. 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:38.600 My friends got the eye of the tiger. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:41.239 I want to be the eco friendly big boss. Okay. 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.640 How did gamifications sneak into my energy use? And why 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.320 is it taking over my life? I'm t T and 0:00:47.360 --> 0:00:49.040 I'm Zachiah and from Spotify. 0:00:49.240 --> 0:01:00.600 This is Dope Labs. 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.840 Welcome to Dope Labs, a weekly podcast that mixes hardcore science, 0:01:19.959 --> 0:01:22.040 pop culture, and a healthy dose of friendship. 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.560 This week, we're talking all about games. Specifically, we wanted 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.200 to know more about the nature of games, the gamification 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:31.360 of life, and the difference between the two because I'm struggling. 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:35.400 You play a lot of games, though I do. You 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:37.240 have a lot of games on your phone and you 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.080 play video games. 0:01:38.480 --> 0:01:39.840 How do you know what's on my phone? 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.839 Back back back, Because I know you. I've been knowing 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:49.559 you for forty five years. We're not that long. 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:55.800 Okay. Sometimes I play games. I don't even realize I'm 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:58.840 playing games. But like crossword puzzles, those are kind of 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:03.000 games relaxing for me. Sudoku Sometimes when I send little 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.640 notes in the mail out at a sadoku, if I 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.280 know people are game friendly, I know not to send 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:08.440 you a Sadoku. You don't like puzzles and things like that. 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.120 No, I don't like Wordle and things like that are okay, 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.160 But now they have things like Wordle Unlimited, where it's 0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:17.400 like Wordle that's just never ending. You can play a 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.360 thousand wordle games back to back to back, and I say, 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:24.720 no way, I can focus my energy for thirty minutes 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:26.600 to get this one word. But I'm not trying to 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:29.160 keep going and going and going. That's just gonna stress 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:31.320 me out. Yeah, when it's done, it's done, it's done. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.399 Go remove yourself from my eyeballs. 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:36.440 All right, let's get into the recitation. 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.520 What do we know TC, Well, we know that games 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:51.440 have been a part of human life for a very 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:52.280 long time. 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:54.760 Yes, this is not a very long time. But even 0:02:54.760 --> 0:02:56.520 when I was a kid, when I really reflect, you know, 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.160 people in my family were playing games jacks with the 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:01.400 ball and the little right dominoes. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:02.680 Yo, that's old school. 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:04.880 But you know what I always think of when I 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.320 think of like early early age sports, it's the Mayans. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.560 So the Mayans had this ball game. 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:11.960 M have you ever heard of it? 0:03:12.320 --> 0:03:13.480 No, tell me, girl. 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:16.800 It's a rubber ball and the sides of the ball 0:03:16.960 --> 0:03:19.640 is like kind of like maybe a baseball size, I think, okay. 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:23.560 And then there's this stone ring that's on a wall 0:03:23.760 --> 0:03:25.640 and the object of the game is to try and 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:28.040 get it in there. But you can't use your hands, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:29.919 so you have to use other parts of your body. 0:03:29.960 --> 0:03:33.040 And this is it's like really high up. So they're 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:35.720 using their backs, they're using their shoulders, they're using their heads. 0:03:35.880 --> 0:03:39.040 And so that is one of like the first sports 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:42.280 I think that's been recorded was from the Mayans, which 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.280 is really cool. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:46.000 It really is. I hadn't heard of that before. Wow, 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:47.560 And that's really far back. I thought you were going 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:51.720 to say, like chess, let me tell you something you 0:03:51.720 --> 0:03:53.600 didn't want to see me in the third and fourth grade, 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:55.400 I had a little board. 0:03:55.680 --> 0:03:58.520 I know he was hustling people. I know it. 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.600 I had some of my favorite stones. I always wanted 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.400 to like I had three or four. I always want 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:06.600 to end this one little cut out. Oh my gosh, 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:08.400 this is making me think of so many games we 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:14.280 played growing up, even hand games, yes, down. 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:15.680 From bank to banky. 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:22.880 How many doctors did it take you? Who was making 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:27.200 that stuff up? And how was it spreading around so fast? 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:28.679 Without social media? 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:31.120 It felt like no matter where you were in the country, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:33.080 everybody knew these games. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.479 How go to my cousins, go from North Carolina to 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.280 Georgia to visit them, they know the games. Go visit 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:41.159 my cousins up in New Jersey, they know the same 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:43.400 hand games. They're singing the same nursery rhymes or whatever 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:44.080 those things were. 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.080 How they're just so embedded in our culture. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.359 Yeah, game plan, Yes, it's a really great way to 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:53.520 bond and connect with people. There are also a lot 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:57.599 of apps out there than social media and services that 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:02.000 have started incorporating games into them. Like the first thing 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:06.039 I think of is the apple Watch. That's a game. 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:10.400 You know, it's tracking your steps, it's tracking your exercise, 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.560 how much you're standing, and sometimes you're just competing with 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.599 you so you can see what you've been doing for 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:17.920 the last month. So it's still a game, but it's 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.120 just one player. But then also you can link up 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.000 with other people's apple Watches, so then you have a 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:25.279 multiplayer game. You can have challenges and all types of stuff 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:25.560 like that. 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.400 Yes, my friends are competitive. I lose those challenges every time. 0:05:28.640 --> 0:05:33.479 Kate from our Metals episode, Kate's closing her rings every day. Okay, 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:34.440 well I can't keep up. 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.640 I can't keep up and stuff though up there. 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.640 Okay, you know. So you've made a really good point 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.080 to see that these apps and services are bringing in 0:05:46.480 --> 0:05:50.520 different elements of gaming, like points, systems and achievements that unlocked. 0:05:50.880 --> 0:05:54.960 All of those are some of the foundational elements of gaming. 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:56.800 But what else do we want to know? 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.440 I think it would be helpful to know or understand 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:03.320 why we play games. I think pretty much everybody feels 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:06.159 like they are open to playing games. But why is 0:06:06.200 --> 0:06:09.400 it that we do play games? What connections are we 0:06:09.440 --> 0:06:09.960 trying to make? 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.240 Yeah? And then I also think as we see the 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.080 adoption of gamification. Is that the same thing as games? 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:21.160 Where do we draw the line between gamification and leveraging 0:06:21.200 --> 0:06:23.600 certain parts of it and actually being a game? Yeah? 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:24.760 A game or trick? 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:29.080 I feel like that's a great starting point. There's probably 0:06:29.120 --> 0:06:30.800 so much we don't even know to ask. 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.280 Right, trick or tree, Let's jump into the dissection. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:48.200 Our guest for today's lab is doctor Twin. 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.240 My name is t Newinn. I'm a associate professor of 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:56.320 philosophy at University of Utah. I was supposed to be 0:06:56.360 --> 0:07:00.679 an expert on fairly conventional issues and epistemology and meta ethics, 0:07:00.760 --> 0:07:04.320 like old school questions like what is knowledge and what 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.240 is the good? And now I've walked down some weird 0:07:07.320 --> 0:07:15.760 path where I am a philosophical expert on games, porn, trust, transparency, metrics, Twitter, 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.200 and weird that I think wasn't supposed to be part 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:21.080 of my job description. 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:25.800 Professor Nowan's book, Games Agency as Art explores games as 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.240 a specific and very special type of art form and 0:07:29.480 --> 0:07:32.440 argues that games are essential part of our systems of 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:34.400 communication and our art. 0:07:34.720 --> 0:07:36.880 We started with the basics and asked Professor to win 0:07:37.000 --> 0:07:38.880 what exactly is a game. 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:42.320 My favorite definition of a game is from this philosopher, 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.400 Bernard Suits. The book is called The Grasshopper Games Life 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:47.480 in Utopia, and he tries to define a game. But 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:51.240 the short version is that to play a game is 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:55.680 to voluntarily taking on unnecessary obstacles to make possible this 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:57.200 activity of struggling. 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.000 Professor Newan says, with every game, you have a goal, 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.680 but what makes it a game is these arbitrary challenges 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.360 that make achieving that goal more difficult. 0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:10.640 One example is a puzzle t t. You hate puzzles. 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.960 I hate puzzles. The end goal is to be able 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.160 to look at a complete picture. So if we didn't 0:08:16.160 --> 0:08:17.520 want to make it a game, we could just buy 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:18.760 the picture. Why don't we do that? 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:22.160 That's what I do. That's exactly what I do. I'm 0:08:22.200 --> 0:08:23.640 just gonna buy a nice picture. 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:27.440 Well that's not the point, I guess. 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.200 The point is the obstacles in the picture is cut 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:33.560 into a thousand tiny little pieces that we have to 0:08:34.040 --> 0:08:35.480 well not we, that you have. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.440 To put together in order to see it. Here's another example. 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.440 So in basketball, the goal is to pass the ball 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.480 through the hoop, but it's not just passing the ball 0:08:44.480 --> 0:08:46.720 through the hoop, because if that was valuable, you would 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.640 just go to a basketball court by yourself with a 0:08:49.640 --> 0:08:52.640 step ladder at midnight and just infinantly do it. It's 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:55.640 not valuable unless it was done under certain constrems. 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.480 Yes, so adding an opposing team who's also trying to score, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.680 adding a clock, all of those things, those are additional 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:05.240 obstacles that make it a game. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.120 That must mean that the value of the activity, whatever 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:11.480 it is, has to lie in the character of the 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:13.760 struggle and not just getting the stuff at the end. 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.120 Yes, the struggle is real and the struggle is fun, 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:18.400 according to Tea. 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:21.520 But that's not the only value games have. Professor Nowinn 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:24.240 says that we're also drawn to games because they give 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.360 us something specific to focus on for a finite amount 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:27.760 of time. 0:09:28.040 --> 0:09:31.440 What games are for me are sculpted activities. The game 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:35.240 designer is setting the goals and then giving you a 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.240 set of abilities. The amazing part of a game is 0:09:38.240 --> 0:09:39.960 that you know what you're doing and for a little 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.400 bit of time you just pay attention to that. When 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.920 I'm rock climbing, I'm just paying attention to the rock. 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.200 When I'm playing one of my absurd, stupid complex German 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:52.680 board games. I'm just paying attention to the economic status 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:56.360 of my railway investments. It's so pure, it's so clear 0:09:56.679 --> 0:09:59.839 for those of us that have trouble having moment of 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:01.880 purity and focus because the world is like this, because 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:05.320 that's like vomiting on you all the time. That purity 0:10:05.400 --> 0:10:08.920 is magical. And it's also in games safe because games 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.280 are temporary and set aside for the rest of the world. 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:15.120 You can focus intensely because you're in a little artificial 0:10:15.160 --> 0:10:16.720 space that's going to end. 0:10:17.040 --> 0:10:19.520 And in fact, a twenty nineteen study talks about the 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:23.600 psychological benefits of playing board games. It links playing them 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:27.240 to a decrease in depression and an increase in healthy 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:31.920 behavior modifications like healthier eating, quitting smoking, and safe sex. 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.400 And there are even more benefits to gameplaying. Games create 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.200 connection between people. In his book, Professor Nowan actually argues 0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:42.080 that games are a special technique for communication. 0:10:42.480 --> 0:10:44.400 One of the neat things about games is because there's 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.559 such tight, constrained spaces that they create this weird intimacy. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:50.040 I mean, I think some of the most intimate I've 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.160 been with another person's mind is playing chess against them. 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.240 You're like in each other's mind, and that's possible because 0:10:55.280 --> 0:10:58.679 the goals are so narrow and the space of possible 0:10:58.760 --> 0:11:01.920 moves is so narrow. Because of that artificiality, you get 0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.280 both the pleasure of like clarity of action and purpose 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.560 and then the pleasure of like near telepathy, which I 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:09.640 think you get in wordle. 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.040 Right, wordle Okay, If you don't know a wordle is, 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:17.320 I don't think you have access to technology or something like, 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.520 you have not been on the internet. Because wordle has 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:24.600 taken the world by storm. So it was created in 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.400 October of twenty twenty one, and it gained the largest 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.439 amount of its popularity in December of twenty twenty one. 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:33.480 But people are still playing wordle two day. 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:34.000 Yes. 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.839 The premise is there is one word, just one word, 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:39.760 a five letter word, each day, and you have to 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.360 figure out what that word is. And with every guest 0:11:42.520 --> 0:11:45.120 you get clues based on the letters that you chose, 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.319 and then you get six tries, and your goal is 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:50.880 to get the word before the six. 0:11:50.760 --> 0:11:53.520 Tries run out. Everyone is playing wordle. If you've seen 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.760 those green squares, yellow squares, that's what it is. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.040 I remember posting wordle on January ninth. 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:01.600 And I had no clue what word was. 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:03.560 At that point, I sent it to somebody and they 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.200 sent a question mark back, and when I posted it 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:07.400 on Instagram, yeah, a lot of people were saying they 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.920 didn't know, and only maybe two or three people knew 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:12.360 what wordle was. They knew what my squares were. 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:16.160 Now there's so many new iterations. There's wordle, there's qirdle, 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:21.040 there's nerdle, there's world there's hurdle, so many. 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:24.400 Different types m Professor Newan actually wrote this Twitter thread 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.720 about what made wordles so successful, and that thread went viral. 0:12:28.960 --> 0:12:31.440 He says, when you first played wordle, your first thought 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:35.360 is wait, you just guess, but slowly you realize you 0:12:35.360 --> 0:12:38.439 have more agency than you thought, with clues about letter 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.160 possibility and letter frequency of each word. So the experience 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:44.800 is about discovering this power you didn't know you had 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:47.800 and all the agency that comes with it. But the 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:50.360 social part of worldle that Professor and Winn talked about 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.240 is what he says really sets it apart. Specifically, the 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.320 graphic design of that shareable wordal chart. I know, I 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.839 know you have seen that in one of your fees 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.120 out on Twitter, on Instagram, on Facebook. You've seen it 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:03.480 somewhere because. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.920 Of the graphic design, you get to see someone else's 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.400 a gentile journey, like in a second. I think actually 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.200 the coolest thing about word is you can look and 0:13:12.240 --> 0:13:14.800 you'd be like, oh, you were there, aren't you? And 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.920 then you pulled it out. How long did it take you? 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.600 Between line four and five? You can just see it. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.160 And so once you get this definition of what a 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:25.280 game is, like this end goal that would be completely 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:28.880 possible and doable if you didn't have all these obstacles 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:30.960 that are basically artificial. 0:13:30.520 --> 0:13:30.960 In the way. 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:31.320 Right. 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.560 Yeah, when you start thinking about that, you really realized that, 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:36.840 like we kind of grew up within the culture of games. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:37.640 Absolutely. 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.520 I can remember playing Canasta after school with teachers of 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:43.960 after school program. 0:13:44.040 --> 0:13:46.760 Yeah, in high school, we were playing skip Bow, we 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.720 were playing Uno, we were playing all types of card games. 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.599 And it really makes me think about video games in 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:56.920 the portrayal of video gamers in like mainstream media. But 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.000 if you were to ask most people, they probably wouldn't 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:01.439 say they consider themselves gamers, right. 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.640 But based on what we've learned from Professor Nowan, so 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.480 far we might all be gamersh feels like it. 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.840 I think there's this weird, weird inattention to play in games, 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:15.600 and despite the fact that it's one of the oldest, 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.480 most central parts of human culture. From my perspective, now 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:21.200 it seems totally weird that the history, at least of 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:26.360 Western European philosophy has spent so much time working on society, ethics, 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.400 the meaning of life, what counts as a good life, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.320 and the shelf of stuff about games in play is 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:35.600 almost non existent. Like, how did we get to the 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:39.640 point we thought we could understand humanity without this stuff. 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:43.240 So, according to Professor t not only our games the 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.200 central part of human life, and not only is it 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.920 possible that we're all really gamers, but he kind of 0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:53.560 proposes that games could actually be the meaning of life. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:55.680 Burner two, to the end of his book, has this 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.600 funky argument that always pisses my students off, where he says, 0:14:58.920 --> 0:15:01.960 imagine utopia, we've used technology to solve all our problems. 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:04.520 What would we do all day? We'd either play games 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:07.040 ord be bored out of our minds. So games must 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:08.320 be the purpose of life. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.840 And doctor Nowe is not the first person to think 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:13.680 about this in this way. It actually goes all the 0:15:13.680 --> 0:15:14.880 way back to Aristotle. 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.880 Aristotle thought though the value in human life was not 0:15:18.320 --> 0:15:21.200 you made, but good quality activity. So another way to 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.040 put it is the meaning of life must be an 0:15:23.120 --> 0:15:26.160 activity that is valuable in and of itself. The philosopher'strength 0:15:26.520 --> 0:15:29.800 is autotelec activity, activity that's valuable not to get something else, 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.280 but in doing itself. And I think Toods just saying 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:36.520 what is the ultimate autotelecactivity, it's games, that is the 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:38.800 struggle that you choose for its own sake. 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.280 Well, if we accept this that games are the meaning 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:49.560 of life, and you know it is the activity for 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:53.920 activity's sake, then they must be pretty valuable, right Like, 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:56.480 if this is what we're all doing, If that's what 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.440 the big picture is, how did we capture the value 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.240 of games? And that's something Professor wid talks about in 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.920 his book thinking of games as like an art form. 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:08.000 One of my suspicions is until lately, it was much 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:09.760 easier to sell a painting than to sell a game 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:11.760 if you think the painting is beautiful and you just 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:13.600 buy the painting. But I think if you think what's 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:16.120 beautiful in the game is your experience of doing it, 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.200 that's not as transferable between people. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:18.400 Right. 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:20.720 That's something that's going to vary from player to player. 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:23.280 What's cool about thinking about games is art is that 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:26.680 it's art that we are active participants in. Looking at 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.800 a painting isn't as active as playing a game. 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:32.960 There's this obsession with art objects that are stable, that 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.720 is like the painting is the same for everyone, But 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:39.480 true games are not stable because people are free during them. 0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.480 And the really remarkable thing about games is that you're 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:46.160 free in games and what you do it becomes beautiful 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:49.760 in identific interaction between you and the design of the game. 0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:51.760 But that's not as easily saleable. 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:54.760 So what he's really saying is that games are art, okay, 0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:58.000 and not even that basic stable art that y'all like 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.280 to say you really love. Games are dynamic art that 0:17:01.360 --> 0:17:05.880 are unique inexperience for each person, designed with your agency 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.640 in mind. This art that's created for players to move 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:09.960 through and have their own interaction. 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.880 For example, tabletop role playing like Dungeons and Dragons often 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:17.520 gets detegrated as very aesthetically low, and if you redescribe 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:19.679 in a certain way, here's an activity where people who 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.000 are largely passiveists who otherwise might be sitting around watching 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.040 the shittiest Netflix show that repeats the same stories and 0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:30.200 not you know, digesting it, are sitting together inventing new 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:33.840 stories on the fly. And then somehow this becomes like 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.119 the lowest part of like it's it's just weird and 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:40.280 like now I'm just looking for an explanation for this. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:43.400 Stuff has been like excluded from being at the core 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:44.000 of what we do. 0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.480 This way of thinking is not something that I do often. 0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:52.520 I just don't think like this. But now listening to 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:57.240 Professor Nuhen, I'm like life, life is a game. Life 0:17:57.280 --> 0:18:01.280 is games. Every part of life you can look at 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:02.439 it as a game. 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:05.280 I don't know. It feels like the short of it 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:06.840 is you thought it was one way, but it's another. 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:11.480 Like you know, you're living around and seeing game like 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.320 activity everywhere. It does make you start to ask some questions, 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.200 like is everything a game? Was the matrix for real? 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.040 I don't think everything is a game. The suit in 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:25.440 definition is that games are voluntary you have to choose 0:18:25.520 --> 0:18:28.720 to take them up, and so game like systems that 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:30.840 are forced on you where you have to engage in 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:34.760 them to survive. Systems where the points are associated with 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.040 I don't know, eating or having a good job that 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.600 doesn't have the kind of ideal structure I'm talking about 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:44.439 where you freely choose a goal and a game for 0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:47.360 the joy of the struggle. It's unsurprising if you see 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.880 game like activity everywhere. I don't think that's because games 0:18:49.920 --> 0:18:52.880 are everywhere. I think it's because games are a crystallization 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:55.640 of every day activity. John Jue, the great American philosopher, 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.560 said that every art form was the crystallization of something 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:01.399 we do in normal life, like the crystallization of seeing 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:03.760 in fiction is the crystallization of telling each other that 0:19:03.760 --> 0:19:06.800 should happened in our day. In games of the crystallization 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.600 of doing, the crystallization of action. And a lot of 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.960 the times we play games because once in a while 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.080 than life, we get to have beautiful, interesting, rich action, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.159 But most of the time in our life the actions 0:19:18.160 --> 0:19:18.919 are crap. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.720 All right. So whether you're life right now is rich 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.520 in action or feeling like it's full of crap. We're 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.200 going to take a break, and when we get back, 0:19:25.280 --> 0:19:28.680 we'll dive into game design, the gamification of everything from 0:19:28.920 --> 0:19:51.000 money to exercise to drinking water to flossing. We're back, 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.200 and before we dive back into games and the literal 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:56.280 meaning of life, let's tee up next week's lab. It's 0:19:56.320 --> 0:19:59.360 almost June and that means it's Pride month. Next week 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:01.880 we're going to be here from members of the LGBTQIA 0:20:02.080 --> 0:20:05.000 plus in STEM community, so be sure to check that 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:06.400 lab out. You don't want to miss it. 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:09.400 Okay, back to talking about games with Professor t. Nuan. 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.000 We've been talking about what games are, why we like 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:16.080 playing them. Now let's talk about the people who are 0:20:16.160 --> 0:20:18.880 actually designing them. There's a lot of thought that goes 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:22.919 into creating a good game, including thinking about a player's behavior. 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:25.199 When you're designing a game, you have to account for 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.000 the freedom of the players and create space for them 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:29.000 to have agency. 0:20:29.480 --> 0:20:31.040