1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: Hey, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome 2 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:19,600 Speaker 1: back to Work in Progress. My whip smarties today. Oh 3 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 1: my god, are we joined by a smarty Indeed, she 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: is a friend of the pod. She is a friend 5 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: of mine and truly an artist that I admire so much. 6 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Zoe Lister Jones is back to talk with us about 7 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: life and it's lessons, and we laugh an awful lot 8 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: and we get to unpack some of the brilliant films 9 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: she's made, shows she's made, and her new one, The 10 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: Miniature Wife, which is streaming on Peacock now. Zoe is 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,880 Speaker 1: one of my favorite artists because she has managed to 12 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: spend the past decade truly redefining what it means to 13 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: be a multi hyphenet in this industry. She writes, directs, 14 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: and stars in incredibly intimate and fearless stories that explore 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: the complexities of identity and personal ethics. 16 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: And she might be so. 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:16,200 Speaker 1: Incredible at this because she was raised in a family 18 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: of artists, and it might just be because she's truly 19 00:01:19,319 --> 00:01:21,960 Speaker 1: one of the most brilliant women in my peer group. 20 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 1: She really inspires me to ask big questions about life, 21 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: how we navigate desire, how we navigate love, how we 22 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: navigate showing up for others without losing ourselves? How do 23 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: we figure out who we are in a world that 24 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: constantly asks us to perform and often rewards us for 25 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: doing that in ways that means we abandon. 26 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: Bits of ourselves. 27 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: I think what makes Zoe such a fascinating woman to 28 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 1: watch is that she really is a living, breathing character 29 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: study of her own authenticity and inspires the rest of 30 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: us to lean into that for ourselves too. Let's get 31 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 1: into all the things with our dear Zoe Lister Jones. 32 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: I'm so excited to get to talk to you about 33 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:20,920 Speaker 1: all the things. 34 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 2: What is up? 35 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: I mean, I have all the questions I ask people 36 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: that you've been on the show before, So I guess 37 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: we have to figure out what bears repeating. 38 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 2: For new friends. 39 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 3: I know, I know we've. 40 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: Talked about this, but we'll dive in with a go 41 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: back to catch up. You grew up in Brooklyn. Your 42 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: parents were artists. You know, you grew up really surrounded 43 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: by so much creative energy. When you think about that 44 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: from where you are as an artist, director, producer, writer today, 45 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 1: if you look back at your childhood at eight or nine, 46 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: What are what are the immediate things that zing for 47 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: you as like, oh, I see, I see how. 48 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: The woman I am today was that little girl m. 49 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 3: I mean my mom was was like I mean she 50 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 3: continues to be, but she taught me so much about 51 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: the male gaze as it pertained to like media and 52 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 3: art and film, say more like it was sort of 53 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 3: imprinted into me at a very young age. Whether that 54 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: was conscious or not, but I think it was pretty 55 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: conscious on her part. And it was like I think 56 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 3: she just looked at everything through a like a lens, 57 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,200 Speaker 3: a sort of feminist lens that was that then just 58 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: became you know, her eyes became my eyes like in 59 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 3: that way, and I think that influenced my work so much. Yeah, 60 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 3: and not only like my work, but as the process 61 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 3: in making my work, because she was in like an 62 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 3: all women film collective in the seventies no way called 63 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:17,680 Speaker 3: Real Feelings but spelled r EEL, and I like had 64 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 3: kind of forgotten that she was a part of that. 65 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,359 Speaker 3: There was a photo of like thirteen women on a 66 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 3: beach and they're all in wedding dresses, and that was 67 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 3: like there, I mean, ironically in wedding dresses in the 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: seventies and so like that photo was kind of part 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: of my memory bank of childhood, but it wasn't super frontal. 70 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 3: And then when I directed my first film, band Aid, 71 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 3: I decided to make it with a crew made up 72 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:52,839 Speaker 3: entirely of women, and again, like my mom reminded me 73 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: of her feminist filmmaking collective, and I was like, right, like, 74 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: the influence is just now so kind of cellular. That's 75 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 3: it's unconscious how much I am you know, doing that. 76 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 3: She sort of laid the groundwork for totally. 77 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,560 Speaker 2: It's interesting, you know, my mom was not an artist. 78 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 1: My mom, you know, had her various jobs and then 79 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 1: ran my dad's business, which is interesting because she was 80 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: sort of the business brain behind his artistry. Interesting, but 81 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: she was very resolute about the education I was to get, 82 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 1: the work I was to do. You know, my mom 83 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 1: was very much the one that was like, oh, you 84 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: don't rely on a man for money. You make your 85 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: own money, you have your own career, you do your 86 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: own thing. And then, having gone to an all girls' school, 87 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: I feel that cellular immersion you're talking about because it 88 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: has never occurred to me to not participate in a 89 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: conversation or raise my hand to offer an answer when 90 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: a question is asked, because I grew up exclusively in 91 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: rooms of women who we're contributing, and I have seen 92 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: in my career that my you know, creativity or verboseness 93 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: or thoughtfulness that I believe is additive to a conversation 94 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 1: can be very off putting to certain men. 95 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh, this is so weird because I 96 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: didn't grow up with this, Yeah, what is this? 97 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,600 Speaker 3: And to certain women, I mean, like I think, you know, 98 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: it's like unfortunately, there's a lot of internalized misogyny across 99 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: the board. 100 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: There really is so much, and it's really making a 101 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: comeback with friending, and I don't like it. 102 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: It's really wild. And I am you know, I always 103 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: just so admire the way that you use your voice 104 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 3: and and I think something that my mom always taught 105 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 3: me was that, like, the personal is political and vice versa, 106 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 3: and you embody that, you know, and I try to 107 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 3: embody that as best I can. And and so I 108 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 3: just do I love I love Yeah, I just I 109 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: love how unapologetic you are. And I'm so grateful to 110 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: your mom honestly. 111 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 2: Same and same. Yeah, we need to take our moms on. 112 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 3: A date. 113 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:18,280 Speaker 2: Like fully, they would have so much fun. Also so weird. 114 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: But the other day I was just in LA for 115 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 1: a quick shoot for something and I was driving down 116 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: I was on Fountain, you know it dead ends into Losianaga, 117 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: but I was going east and as I'm driving down Fountain, 118 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 1: a pack of women in white dresses and veils, like 119 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: eleven of them I counted. 120 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: I was like, what's going on. 121 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: We're coming down Fountain and turning down whatever street is 122 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: right after sweets Are, and I was like, oh my, 123 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 1: And I was in the left lane, so I couldn't 124 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 1: make a right and all I wanted was to turn 125 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:58,720 Speaker 1: around and pull over and be like, sorry, you're clearly 126 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: doing something, but what are you doing? I just need 127 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: to know what you're all doing, Like a like the 128 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: reporter in me from journalism school is just she's impossible 129 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 1: to smother. I try sometimes, but clearly you know from 130 00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: my social media, I cannot. 131 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: And I was like, what are they doing? 132 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: And then you just described your mom's that's actually photographed, 133 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: and that's so weird to me. 134 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: That's really crazy. 135 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: Like some in some weird fold of the universe, Like 136 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: I just saw that pack of women walking through Los 137 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: Angeles together. 138 00:08:33,800 --> 00:08:38,599 Speaker 3: I'm obsessed with whatever, just whatever time space continuum collapsed 139 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 3: to make that happen. 140 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:42,079 Speaker 2: I love it. I love it. 141 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 3: I love that. I mean, at this moment, I feel 142 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:50,480 Speaker 3: like audacious acts of like joy and resistance, whatever that was, 143 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: I'm just going to project that onto that group of 144 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 3: women are like what we need. It's yes, it's what's 145 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 3: going to keep us going. 146 00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 1: I totally agree. And it's like, I don't know, I'm 147 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: just kind of leaning into things. I'm letting myself lay 148 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: in bed when I'm so depressed by the state of 149 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 1: the world, and then I'm like, all right, bitch, get up, 150 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: do something, put on an outfit. 151 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: What do you wear for the end of the world. 152 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 2: I don't know. Also give yourself joy. 153 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: And then dive into the zoom, the organizing whatever it is. 154 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: But I'm I don't know, I'm sort of remembering that, 155 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm reminding myself that if all we do is the 156 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: heavy side of the work and we don't do the 157 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: joyful side of the work, we miss it. And you 158 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: inspire me in that way so much. You always when 159 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 1: you share something, the reflections are so thoughtful. The way 160 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: you write about the state of the world, is so 161 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 1: generous and considered and razor I mean, with such a 162 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: razor sharp honesty. And then you're also like going to 163 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: a thing in the most avant garde outfit and I'm like, yeah. 164 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 2: We need that wear the dress. 165 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,840 Speaker 1: What if the world ended tomorrow and you never wore 166 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: and it sat in your closet with a tag on 167 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: it and you remember me to play while I work? 168 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 3: Oh, you remember me? 169 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:15,840 Speaker 2: You remind me? 170 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: I remember me that you remember remember me? I do 171 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:23,120 Speaker 3: remember you well. I think we remember each other. And 172 00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 3: that's the beauty of it because it is like and 173 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 3: thank you. That means so much to me. And I 174 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: think what we wear to the revolution is key. 175 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: I'm into it, Like I feel like there's an idea 176 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: here we should noodle on for a movie. 177 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 3: Yes. 178 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: Also because every project you do, I'm like, how am 179 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: I not doing this with you? Also, it's yours, It's 180 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: yours and it should be. You are so brilliant, And 181 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: I'm like, can I come play? 182 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: Can? 183 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 3: I mean? 184 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: I'm ready. 185 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 3: When we did Wayne's World, I was listening and we 186 00:10:55,280 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 3: did it all queer women and non binary and it 187 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 3: was a live thing, live reading of Wayne's World. 188 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: Yes, in a Theater in Los Angeles. We all sat, 189 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: you know, last supper style with our music stands, and 190 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: we performed the play to a packed house, just setting 191 00:11:11,800 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 1: the scene for the listeners at home. 192 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: And it was the most fun thing ever. That's the 193 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 3: only time that we've actually like worked together. But I 194 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 3: was so excited. Well I do. 195 00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 2: We had the best time. 196 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 1: And there are moments, and bless the person that you 197 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: hired to shoot the photos of that night, because there's 198 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: moments obviously as you're performing, things happen live and we'd 199 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: rehearsed it, but it was a short turnaround, as those 200 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: things tend to be. And there were moments you and 201 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: I sat next to each other performing where I would 202 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: make you laugh and you'd look at me, or you'd 203 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 1: do something so funny and I'd double over because I 204 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 1: hadn't seen you do it up close yet and it 205 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,439 Speaker 1: was happening in real time. And I have those photos 206 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 1: and I just care wish them me too, They're so great. 207 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: It was such a it was really, I mean, those 208 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 3: moments that are just like sort of pure play, yeah, 209 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 3: are so rare. Yeah, and I cherish them and I 210 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,559 Speaker 3: try to create them, but they you know, Yeah, they're 211 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 3: hard to come by, unfortunately. 212 00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:21,720 Speaker 1: But that's what's so fascinating to me about you, you know, 213 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: I will say, and like, I think part of growing 214 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: up is admitting what you know and what you don't know. 215 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: I have a million ideas all the time, and I 216 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: struggle to know what the next step is sometimes to 217 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: execute on them. Clearly. I have also since learned that's 218 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: a very common thing for masking over achieving women with ADHD. 219 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, it's not personal moral failing. It doesn't 220 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: mean I'm a waste of a human life. Interesting, okay, 221 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: but you are such a generative creative, and I think 222 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: it's often really hard for people to be purely creative 223 00:12:56,559 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: and great at the execution. So how have you figured 224 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: that out for yourself? Is it something you learned by 225 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: watching your mom and then you figured out how to 226 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,439 Speaker 1: do or has there been kind of a I don't 227 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: want to say it's a formula or a protocol necessarily, 228 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,679 Speaker 1: but did you kind of figure out how to hack 229 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: a version of a creative formula and then continue to 230 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: follow it. 231 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 3: I mean, first of all, thank you. That's also really 232 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:29,280 Speaker 3: I love coming on this podcast moment to moment, and 233 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:33,720 Speaker 3: it feels so good, So I love you, and and 234 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it was interesting, like the household 235 00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 3: I grew up in. Both my mom and my dad 236 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,319 Speaker 3: are artists, and my dad also influenced me not not 237 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:47,840 Speaker 3: to put him in the shadows, but you know, we 238 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: like to shout out dads are But they were both artists. 239 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 3: My mom was a video orders my dad was a 240 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:04,479 Speaker 3: conceptual photographer, and both of these mediums are not easily commodifiable. 241 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 3: So they were making art. But I saw how difficult 242 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 3: it was to also like make a living, and so 243 00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 3: I think, like in terms of being generative, that actually 244 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 3: was something that I was like, I must be generative 245 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 3: to live otherwise, because I had witnessed so firsthand that 246 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 3: like if art making, at least for my parents, like 247 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 3: their art making then had to take a backsteat to 248 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:37,120 Speaker 3: the jobs they had to get to make money. And 249 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: not only does that take like the time and energy 250 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 3: away from your art, but I think it also like 251 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: just creates a sort of heartache that I saw and 252 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,920 Speaker 3: felt and wanted to avoid generally trying to avoid heartache, 253 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 3: and you know it's hard to avoid, but in the 254 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: areas that we can, so like I think I learned 255 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 3: early that that was something that I wanted to really 256 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: get good at. Was like completing a project, seeing it 257 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 3: to its fruition. And my ex husband and I made 258 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 3: like sort of like super micro budget indies in the beginning, 259 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: like in our twenties, and that was like a huge 260 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 3: learning experience about how to make things for little but 261 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 3: with you know, like a good enough production value and 262 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 3: to get the community involved, which was also just so 263 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: much fun to just like get the friends that I 264 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 3: loved who were working in various you know, departments or actors. 265 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 3: And then those those projects, you know, built momentum more 266 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,640 Speaker 3: than I was given more opportunities to create things. But 267 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 3: it's an interesting thing, I will say, and I've been 268 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,440 Speaker 3: thinking about this recently, like it's really good to be 269 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 3: like process and product oriented, but sometimes if you get 270 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 3: to product oriented, I think, especially as a woman like 271 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 3: I can I have found myself in certain situations like 272 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 3: abandoning my instincts because I'm just like, we got to 273 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 3: get this thing done, come hell or high water. And 274 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 3: when many cooks are in the kitchen, you know, when 275 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: you move out of the sort of micro budget world 276 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 3: and cooks are in the kitchen, that can sometimes be 277 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 3: not an asset, you know, like sometimes it is time 278 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 3: to be like, I'm not going to make this under 279 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: these conditions or with these limitations artistically that's not aligned 280 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 3: with me. So it's just like a learning curve, you know, 281 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 3: as you make more things to be like, this is 282 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 3: what is in alignment with me, and this is what 283 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 3: is not in alignment with me. But it's a weird 284 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 3: time in the industry, so you know, like, yeah, getting 285 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 3: done takes a little extra muscle now for. 286 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: Sure, totally And now for our sponsors, what keeps you 287 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: hopeful in the face of how weird things are because 288 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, I can't help but think when you talk about, 289 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 1: for example, watching your parents do what they loved and 290 00:17:26,359 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: then having to do things they loved less because we 291 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 1: live in a world that requires us to do things 292 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,479 Speaker 1: like pay our rent and our phone bills. You know, 293 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: I think about how much harder it is now that 294 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: private equities bought up all the houses and people can't 295 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: afford them anymore, that they've bought up all the film studios, 296 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: and now we're struggling to have an industry anymore. Because 297 00:17:52,520 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: someone's looking at a P and L and they think 298 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: that that's all that matters. Like, how do you when 299 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:03,880 Speaker 1: you zoom out thirty thousand feet as the accomplished filmmaker 300 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: that you are, how do you look at the landscape 301 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 1: and stay hopeful? What do you what do you think 302 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: is the future of it? 303 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 3: Oh? Gosh, I don't know. 304 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: I'm just a casual question for you. 305 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 3: Houre of the industry and the world. 306 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:25,160 Speaker 2: You're like, actually, I have a plan. I've got it right. 307 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll say, like, the spiritual work I'm doing right 308 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 3: now is to surrender to the now and try to 309 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 3: future trip and to actually accept the reality that I 310 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,320 Speaker 3: have no control over love that holds great. 311 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 2: So the key to the future is to stop thinking 312 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: about it. 313 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 3: I mean, it's like I think it's exactly what probably 314 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 3: we both do, you know, It's like, yeah, staying as 315 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 3: like typically engaged as you can while still really like 316 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:01,479 Speaker 3: taking care of yourself because and that and that bleeds 317 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 3: into the creative life too. Like I think as I've 318 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 3: gotten older, of course I'm only in my twenties, but 319 00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 3: as I've gotten older, Like I like what you were 320 00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:18,119 Speaker 3: saying and prioritizing rest in a really different way, and 321 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,239 Speaker 3: probably just because I'm tired, but I also think I 322 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 3: understand more the need to rest in order to engage. Yes, 323 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: And like, I think that is what gives me hope. 324 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:37,400 Speaker 3: And I will say also like gen Z gives me hope. 325 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:43,280 Speaker 3: Like I really, I like look to that generation. I 326 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 3: learn a lot from them, and I think, like, you know, 327 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 3: every generation, we can talk shit about every generation, you 328 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: know what I mean. But yea, but I think that 329 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 3: there's like a level of engagement that feels engagement and 330 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 3: sort of thoughtfulness in the people that I know who 331 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 3: are like doing the work that I don't know. It 332 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 3: just feels inspired and inspiring to me. What gives you hope? 333 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 2: You know, we do women do. 334 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: The leadership of folks that see more than the rest 335 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,960 Speaker 1: of us, you know, people who have a non binary 336 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:44,400 Speaker 1: existence in their bodies. I think the intense backlash against 337 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: women first that's coming from the right is because we've 338 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:54,120 Speaker 1: had a generation of pseudo equality, and rather than motivating 339 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: the system of patriarchy to become better, it's motivating it 340 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: to try to hurt us because we've done more or 341 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 1: with less. And I think it's actually why trans and 342 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: non binary people are at the center of that fight 343 00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: and being assaulted in the ways that they are because 344 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: the freedom it requires a human being to not only 345 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 1: see but embody in a cellular way, to exist past 346 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,400 Speaker 1: a binary or a societal prescription for what they should do. 347 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 1: And they say, you can do whatever you'd like, but 348 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: I'm going to do everything I believe I can do. 349 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to be everything I know myself to be. 350 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: It is such a radical upset to a system that 351 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 1: succeeds on the shrinking of people and feeding off of 352 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: them rather than the expansion of people and the allowing 353 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: them to flourish. 354 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,919 Speaker 2: And I watch. 355 00:21:54,480 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: Our trans friends, our non binary friends stand so resolutely 356 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: in their identities because both they are doing the radical 357 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:14,360 Speaker 1: act of acknowledging their own worth, and by acknowledging their worth, 358 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,679 Speaker 1: their demanding that we acknowledge the worth of other people. 359 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: To do that in the year twenty twenty six, when 360 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:27,680 Speaker 1: they are when the people with the least power are 361 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 1: being attacked by the people with the most wealth and 362 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: power in the world. 363 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: So people who are willing. 364 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: To stand against that kind of power and influence inspire me. 365 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: You know, yes, in the same way that I like 366 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: to be everyone's most affirming cheerleader on the internet, because 367 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:47,919 Speaker 1: it's accessible. So I like to leave nice comments for 368 00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: everyone I know and tell all my friends they're hot. 369 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,719 Speaker 1: I like to look at what people do and be inspired. 370 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: Like I think about when I was going over filmography 371 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,040 Speaker 1: stuff for today, I was like, oh my god, I 372 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:04,360 Speaker 1: forgot about Consumed, Like you and Daryl made that movie 373 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,240 Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen, and I was thinking, oh my god, 374 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: you made a dramatic thriller about an issue we're talking 375 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,480 Speaker 1: about now in these crazy ways about the complex world 376 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: of GMOs. You could have made a documentary, but you 377 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 1: made it a narrative story because you wanted it to 378 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,120 Speaker 1: register in a different way. And over ten years ago 379 00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: you were talking about the future of food and climate, 380 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: but nobody felt like you were smacking them in the 381 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: face about a climate movie, you know what I mean. 382 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 1: And like, that's fucking radical and not just rad like 383 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: California term. I mean radical in terms of subversive to 384 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: an industry, And like, I don't know, reflecting on that 385 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: ten years ago, how do you think about the approach 386 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: and the inspiration in the first place, Knowing where we 387 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: are now, you know, with this upside down kookiness about 388 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: like red dye but not chemicals being allowed they used 389 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: to be banned by the EPA. 390 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 3: Like, yeah, I know, it's I mean making that movie 391 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 3: was so challenging in so many ways. And yes, and 392 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 3: and like you know, Monsanto has now been like subsumed 393 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 3: by Bayer, So it's sort of an invisible, really nefarious 394 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 3: agent in destroying our climate and our food and our 395 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 3: soil and all these things. And those forces are much 396 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:37,400 Speaker 3: more powerful than I think I understood than I think 397 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 3: Darryl or I understood at the time of making it. 398 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 3: You know, like ego to a film festival and the 399 00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:48,520 Speaker 3: sponsor is Coca Cola. You know, you don't think about 400 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: those things until you have a film that's sort of 401 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 3: poking the bear a bit. Yeah, So I think it 402 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 3: was challenging in some ways. It's also I think when 403 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 3: you it's interesting that it really dropped us into the 404 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 3: center of a wellness movement that at the time was 405 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,760 Speaker 3: Maha didn't exist, right, but a lot of that community 406 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:19,120 Speaker 3: has now horseshoed into MAHA. And so I feel really 407 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 3: turned upside down because, as you said, like the focus 408 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 3: on humanity and climate and environmentalism and equity and social 409 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 3: justice that felt woven into the fabric of that community 410 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 3: is now to me just upside down because the integrity 411 00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 3: is and obviously that's not the community as a whole, 412 00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 3: but just sure, I think what Maha has chosen to 413 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,879 Speaker 3: take from that and then not chosen, as you said. 414 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: It's figuring out the grift, right like conspiracy theories were, 415 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: because there's a kernel of truth at the center, and 416 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: then they build a fantasy of fallacy around it. Fantasy 417 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,400 Speaker 1: of fallacy. I just came up with that memoir, honestly, 418 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: not no. And what's fascinating to me, even when you 419 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: take something as horrific as as what we've seen in 420 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 1: you know, the half of the trove of the Epstein 421 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,959 Speaker 1: files we have is you realize that those the craziness 422 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: of QAnon and four chan and you know what started 423 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 1: on backslash Pole was started by Jeffrey Epstein and Steve Bannon. 424 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 1: So like they told the kernel of truth about the 425 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 1: horrific thing they were doing, and then they dressed it 426 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: up in something crazy and then they projected it onto 427 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: the people trying to stop them from doing it. 428 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 3: Right, That broke my brain. 429 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 2: It breaks my brain. 430 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 1: But when you realize Maha is the same, you know, 431 00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: when you realize that the same people who called Michelle 432 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: Obama a communist for trying to feed children more vegetables 433 00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:05,480 Speaker 1: in school lunches are now rally against science but supporting 434 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: people that are actively trying to poison them on the 435 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: behalf of their billionaire donors. 436 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 2: You go like, wait a second. 437 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: But I think part of the reason I got excited 438 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: to revisit consumed and this no shock in an ADHD 439 00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 1: brain is a very long way to get us back 440 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,200 Speaker 1: to what makes me hopeful is like when we think 441 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: about gen Z, whether they and this is not to 442 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:32,239 Speaker 1: approve or whatever, This is just to say, like, the 443 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: through line that excites me, whether you have hyper conservative 444 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,320 Speaker 1: gen Z voters or hyperliberal gen Z voters, the thing 445 00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: they all care most about statistically is climate. I know 446 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,640 Speaker 1: they actually agree on that because we should. And that 447 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: makes me feel excited. That makes me feel hopeful. That 448 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: makes me feel like we can unpack the grift that 449 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: has griff did logical movements because they were logical and working. 450 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,959 Speaker 1: I think we can unpack it and hopefully reclaim the 451 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: thing we should all care about, which is conserving this 452 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: planet that we live on so that we might, I 453 00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,440 Speaker 1: don't know, keep living without being poisoned or getting cancer 454 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 1: or whatever, and so. 455 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:20,639 Speaker 2: I don't know. 456 00:28:20,720 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: It makes me in the same ways that I am 457 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: overwhelmed by how crazy it is, I feel hopeful that 458 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,000 Speaker 1: there are still things people agree on. 459 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,240 Speaker 3: Yeah now, yeah, yeah totally. And I think I mean, 460 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 3: in some ways, my hope lies in the belief that 461 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 3: sometimes it has to get really bad for it to 462 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:55,080 Speaker 3: get better. Yeah, that I think there's something afoot about 463 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 3: the current state of affairs in the world. While it's 464 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 3: like divisive and horrific, that a lot is being uncovered 465 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 3: and exposed, and it can be really like dizzying, you know, 466 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 3: even for people who have like ten toes down on 467 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 3: their values. It's so dizzying. But but I think that 468 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,640 Speaker 3: kind of exposure, I hope that ultimately it will be 469 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:33,600 Speaker 3: like a unifying force and that like humanity and a 470 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 3: love of just being human will prevail rather than the grift, 471 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 3: you know, because the grift it is for all of 472 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: the memes I read, you know that like show my Algorithm, 473 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 3: but like it is kind of textbook narcissistic abuse, right, 474 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 3: It's like, yes, you are the perpetrator and you put 475 00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 3: your you sort of project your perpetration onto other people, 476 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 3: so that then they're like dizzied and don't know who's 477 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 3: accountable or how to hold anyone accountable. Yeah, and that's 478 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 3: exactly what has happened. But it feels now that at 479 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 3: leaves with like the Epstein files, some of that is 480 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 3: being revealed, like what you said, Yeah, and that's sort 481 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 3: of seeing like the interconnectedness of all of the oppressive 482 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 3: forces is like creating just a larger picture. I hope 483 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 3: for people. 484 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: It's also just crazy to me and listen, I know, 485 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 1: we're both women who've always been encouraged to stand in 486 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: our power, voice our opinion, be educated. Like you are 487 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: a person like me who wants to do homework every 488 00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 1: day about the world, which I love. I get that 489 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: that's not everybody's bag, but I think when it is, 490 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:55,600 Speaker 1: and you understand how to unpack men as a system, 491 00:30:55,880 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: you know, as patriarchy, how to unpack internalized missile, how 492 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 1: to figure out actually the incredible power of women to 493 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,920 Speaker 1: tell stories about them. I mean, you know what you 494 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: did with slip, Like it's sort of surreal to move 495 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: through the world. I think as women who've sort of 496 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: seen behind the curtain. Also to get divorced, also to 497 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: come out, Like, I don't think there's an accident there 498 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: where you go like, oh, the dynamic I was told 499 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: was for me actually has never been. 500 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 3: Good for me. 501 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's put me in the position of employee, not partner. 502 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:43,239 Speaker 1: How how do you think that journey for you as 503 00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 1: an individual has influenced your storytelling? Because even when I 504 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 1: think about what you did with Slip, and I'll let 505 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 1: you talk to the folks at home about the story, 506 00:31:55,000 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: but like, it isn't lost on me that we were 507 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: the first women in history to have written, directed, and 508 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,080 Speaker 1: starred in every single episode of a season of television, 509 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 1: like the first in our age bracket, Like what? And 510 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 1: so I realize, as far as we've come, we still 511 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,800 Speaker 1: were still making firsts in our generation. So I guess 512 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: I just wonder how from the personal to professional you 513 00:32:20,480 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: square the journey and then figure out how to storytell 514 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: out of it. 515 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 3: I mean, well, Slip was Slip was interesting. It was 516 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:34,480 Speaker 3: sort of it sort of bridged my coming out journey 517 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,400 Speaker 3: in terms of the personal and the professional parallels. But 518 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,479 Speaker 3: basically the story is a woman who is in a 519 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 3: marriage that's feeling really stagnant and sleeps with someone one 520 00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 3: night in a sort of like fit of despair and 521 00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 3: wakes up the next morning married to him. And then 522 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 3: over the course of the series, she learns that through orgasm, 523 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:06,440 Speaker 3: she's being teleported to parallel universes. So every episode, like 524 00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 3: the central set piece is her orgasm, and it catapults 525 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: her into a different life that she's living with a 526 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,760 Speaker 3: different person, and and you know, she's with a woman, 527 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 3: she's with like really a variety of people, which I 528 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 3: think was you know, it does sort of mirror the 529 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 3: journey of queerness, where you're like when you're especially later 530 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:37,160 Speaker 3: in life, queers like you and I that like we yeah, 531 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 3: that's it's a process obviously that unfolds. And for me 532 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 3: it was like, who am I? Like, there are always 533 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 3: different versions of me that exist simultaneously, and I, you know, 534 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 3: narratively told that as parallel universes, but I think in 535 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 3: every person there are so many different selves, yes, and 536 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 3: how we honor each of those selves or those selves 537 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,200 Speaker 3: was really interesting to me. And then through the lens 538 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 3: of like female sexual pleasure, which felt relatively untapped, you know. 539 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, and still so taboo. 540 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, And I had like I remember when when 541 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 3: Fifty Shades of Gray came out as a book. Everywhere 542 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 3: I went there was a woman whose like face was 543 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,279 Speaker 3: like pressed into the pages, and I was like, oh, 544 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 3: this is there's a collective hunger among women for sexually 545 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,800 Speaker 3: explicit material that like is also woven into a story. 546 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: But like, yeah, we've been so historically deprived of being 547 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,239 Speaker 3: able to just be unapologetically horny, you know what I mean, 548 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 3: And so I wanted to make a horny show too, 549 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,040 Speaker 3: like that could turn women and men and non binary 550 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 3: folk on. It got nominated for two Independent Spirit Awards, 551 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 3: which was a dreaming true for Best New TV Show 552 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,480 Speaker 3: and Best Actress and or Its Actor that they actually 553 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:10,960 Speaker 3: don't gender that category of the Indie Spirits, which I 554 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 3: love and it was my baby. But it was also 555 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 3: so exciting to me that something like that could exist 556 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,239 Speaker 3: in the world, and it felt like there was maybe 557 00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 3: a shift in the ability to portray women not only 558 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 3: as objects of desire but as like agents of it. 559 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 1: And now Slip is streaming on Peacock for new audiences 560 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,200 Speaker 1: to discover. We'll be back in just a minute, but 561 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:47,879 Speaker 1: here's a word from our sponsors. Moving into The Miniature Wife, 562 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: which for our friends at home, is streaming on Peacock 563 00:35:50,120 --> 00:35:53,600 Speaker 1: now you need to watch it. It's really fucking funny, Like, 564 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:59,000 Speaker 1: how do all of those experiences, from moving up the 565 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: ranks of indie film to having this gorgeous success and 566 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 1: heartache together with a series like that, how do you 567 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 1: kind of continue taking risks and also insulate yourself a 568 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: little bit as an artist for the next thing. 569 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:22,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'll say that, like Miniature Wife, I'm 570 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 3: solely acting in it, which is always a gift, you know, 571 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 3: as a person who wears a lot of hats. 572 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: I was wondering if that felt like a relief a 573 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:31,960 Speaker 1: little bit, just to show up and be an actor 574 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: and not have to make like forty seven other decisions 575 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: throughout the day. 576 00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 3: It is so much fun. And Elizabethanks and Matthew mcfaddy 577 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:42,640 Speaker 3: and play the central couple in it, and they're both 578 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:46,600 Speaker 3: just like unbelievable actors. Most of my scenes with Matthew 579 00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 3: and so to just like show up and like we 580 00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:51,759 Speaker 3: were talking about before, just like play, you know, just 581 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 3: like absolutely play. And the show is so much fun 582 00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 3: because it's so playful, Like it's about a man who 583 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 3: shrinks his wife, so it's like honey ash the wife, 584 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,880 Speaker 3: but it's about you know, power dynamics in a relationship, 585 00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 3: so it's also very relatable, but it's through this sort 586 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:11,759 Speaker 3: of escapeist to fantastical lens and and so showing up 587 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 3: on set like tonally it was such an opportunity to 588 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,200 Speaker 3: just be really playful. Yeah, and that was so much fun. 589 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 3: But I'm also like developing a TV show and developing 590 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 3: a movie and so like it was really nice to 591 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 3: be able to do all of those things, but to 592 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 3: get to like go just shoot something and distract myself 593 00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:38,680 Speaker 3: from from that. And it shot in Canada, and it 594 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 3: shot right when Trump was inaugurated, so it was like 595 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:49,959 Speaker 3: a sort of perfect escape route. Yeah. But but yeah, 596 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 3: I mean, I think it's so important to like there 597 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,080 Speaker 3: are so many opportunities for heartache in a life, you know, 598 00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 3: like that and that and that they're they're just that 599 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 3: they're opportunities. Like they're also opportunities to learn so much 600 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,040 Speaker 3: about yourself and to learn about what you want to 601 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,200 Speaker 3: do next, and to learn about like your fortitude too, 602 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,239 Speaker 3: Like that's not going to yeah, that's not going to 603 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 3: stop me, you know. Yeah. 604 00:38:18,719 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: I do think when you know you've put your heart 605 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:27,200 Speaker 1: and soul into something and it partially works or works 606 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,680 Speaker 1: and then doesn't or you know, whatever can happen to 607 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: us in the space of it. Yeah, throwing yourself into 608 00:38:35,239 --> 00:38:39,320 Speaker 1: other things that are just fun is so important, and 609 00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 1: it's it's really interesting after the last show that I 610 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 1: had worked on and produced, which we loved, but just 611 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: all the timing was off. You know, when you realize, like, 612 00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: oh god, it's like being it's like being two beats 613 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,680 Speaker 1: off the clap. It's just so terrible. You're like, this 614 00:38:57,719 --> 00:39:01,400 Speaker 1: would have worked before or later, but not. Yes, Like 615 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: I gave myself a homework assignment to really just go 616 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 1: and have fun and to produce a comedy about a 617 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:11,880 Speaker 1: mother and daughter that I did with Lauren Holly, to 618 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: go and do this other great comedy that I just 619 00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: did with Jerry O'Connell, like things that are Jerry, He's 620 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,680 Speaker 1: a perfect chance, Like things truly just for fun, even 621 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,399 Speaker 1: going and like in between all the movies going back 622 00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,279 Speaker 1: and forth to Grace, like I just get to go 623 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,719 Speaker 1: have a good time. I literally get to go stir 624 00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:33,720 Speaker 1: the pot and then be like a med student. 625 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 2: And I needed that a little bit. I needed to. 626 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,160 Speaker 1: Not have the whole weight of something on me. I 627 00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:43,480 Speaker 1: needed to go have a really fucking good time as 628 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: an actor with people who I adore and hear nineties 629 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: rom com stories from Lauren and like go and just 630 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,640 Speaker 1: shoot the shit, you know, between scenes with Ellen Pompeo, 631 00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 1: like that's my girl. She reminds me of of she 632 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: has the same kind of energy of like all my 633 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 1: cousins from New York that I'm just obsessed with, And 634 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:10,880 Speaker 1: like the last sort of stint for me has reminded 635 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,880 Speaker 1: me why I love our job so much and how 636 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:15,959 Speaker 1: much fun I have doing it. And now I'm like, Okay, 637 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,799 Speaker 1: I think I'm ready to go create something. Yes, great, Yeah, 638 00:40:19,840 --> 00:40:22,360 Speaker 1: but I needed to not put that pressure on myself 639 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: for a beat and just love it. 640 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:29,040 Speaker 3: No. Unfortunately, I don't think like creativity thrives. 641 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,280 Speaker 2: Under pressure, my insurance, doesn't. 642 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,920 Speaker 3: It thrives in like the liminal spaces, you know, it 643 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:36,480 Speaker 3: thrives when you wake up or when you're in the 644 00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 3: shower or you know, like that's when I always get 645 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,839 Speaker 3: my ideas. It's like when I actually give my brain 646 00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 3: permission to turn off, which I think goes back to 647 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,319 Speaker 3: like the idea of surrender, Like when you can kind 648 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 3: of just surrender and try to be present, that's when 649 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 3: I think it flows. 650 00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. 651 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:01,080 Speaker 1: Well, maybe it's surrender, maybe it's something else. But when 652 00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,240 Speaker 1: you when you think about this moment for you, whether 653 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: it's you know, in your own personhood or or as 654 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,680 Speaker 1: an artist or a creator, like on any level, what 655 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: feels like you're work in progress. 656 00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:19,320 Speaker 3: Oh my god, there is so much work in progress 657 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:19,839 Speaker 3: at the. 658 00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,480 Speaker 1: Part it's solving the crisis of the film industry dollar. 659 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:28,960 Speaker 3: I mean, my work in progress at the moment is 660 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:36,440 Speaker 3: myself is Like it's a really corny and vague answer, 661 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 3: but like acts of self love, like esteemable acts that 662 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 3: build self esteem, not esteem based on external validation. That 663 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,239 Speaker 3: is a work in progress and I am working it. 664 00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 3: But it's really a wild thing. I think. You know, 665 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 3: when you when you start to really when I start 666 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 3: to really pay attention to how much negative self talks 667 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 3: exists in a day that I have just been kind 668 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 3: of like accepting as the norm until I put a 669 00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:14,360 Speaker 3: microscope on it. Yeah, that's like my current work in progress. Obviously, 670 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:16,480 Speaker 3: you know, I also don't want to be like too 671 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,560 Speaker 3: naval gazy in a moment that requires a lot of engagement. 672 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:22,880 Speaker 3: So like I think it is personal spiritual surrender, but 673 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 3: like civic engagement. 674 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 2: It kind of has to be all of it, right. 675 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, totally, yeah, yeah, I think that's like, that's 676 00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 3: the journey, that's the current journey. Yeah yeah, I feel that. 677 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: I feel that and figuring out figuring out what naval 678 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,120 Speaker 1: gazing as a phrase is actually quite necessary for growth, 679 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,840 Speaker 1: and then also when to just stop and do other things, 680 00:42:51,719 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: you know, I think sometimes, at least for me, as 681 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,160 Speaker 1: much as I'm like raw raw, women can do everything. 682 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:02,200 Speaker 2: I realize I haven't addressed. 683 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: How much negativity society encourages us to practice on ourselves. 684 00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,799 Speaker 1: And it's been a really interesting thing being in my 685 00:43:09,920 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 1: relationship with Ash. She will stop me sometimes and be like, 686 00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 1: you are so. 687 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 2: Hard on yourself. 688 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:22,320 Speaker 1: Stop it, like stop, And I don't realize how unkind 689 00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,080 Speaker 1: I'm being to myself until the person who I love 690 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:28,320 Speaker 1: the most in the world, who loves me, is hurt 691 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: by how little love I show myself. And that is 692 00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:36,919 Speaker 1: this sort of revelatory thing where I go, oh, I'm 693 00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: probably gonna have to shift this dynamic if I want 694 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: to make the art I desire to be a part of, 695 00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,960 Speaker 1: or create the sustainable change I believe is possible. I 696 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,240 Speaker 1: think it does start on the inside. And then also 697 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: there's moments where I'm like, oh, shut the fuck up 698 00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:57,080 Speaker 1: and get out of your own way and just go 699 00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: do the thing, like you know, in the time of 700 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: us doing this last night. Yesterday was Transdaive visibility and 701 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:07,719 Speaker 1: it was also National Run for Something Day, National Run 702 00:44:07,719 --> 00:44:10,080 Speaker 1: for Office Day. And I got on the Run for 703 00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:12,799 Speaker 1: Something Zoom last night because I was like, things are 704 00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: terrible and the Supreme Court fucking sucks and what are 705 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:15,799 Speaker 1: we doing? 706 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:17,239 Speaker 2: And I just I sat. 707 00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,160 Speaker 1: On a Zoom for ninety minutes, like in the backstage 708 00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: waiting room, just listening to inspiring people talk. 709 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:25,040 Speaker 2: And by the time I had to talk, I was like, 710 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:25,879 Speaker 2: I feel so much. 711 00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,319 Speaker 3: I needed this. Yes, I think it is. It's like 712 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:36,560 Speaker 3: it is finding that balance is so important because too 713 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:41,400 Speaker 3: much self work, you know, can also like bleed into perfectionism, 714 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 3: which then is part of the bad part where you're 715 00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:47,839 Speaker 3: like I must be perfect, I must figure this out. 716 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,719 Speaker 3: It is about like interrupting it with also like investing 717 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:56,840 Speaker 3: in your community, yeah, and getting out of your own way. 718 00:44:57,280 --> 00:44:58,480 Speaker 3: So I love that you did. 719 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:04,400 Speaker 1: That trying like literally just you know, I feel like 720 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,480 Speaker 1: the cartoon of like miss is incredible. Just stretch, just 721 00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:10,600 Speaker 1: for just trying to catch all the things, but like 722 00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,800 Speaker 1: we're not giving up. You know, we're bruised, we're battered, 723 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,240 Speaker 1: We're getting up for another round. 724 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,799 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I just. 725 00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:20,359 Speaker 2: Love getting to spend an hour with you. 726 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,000 Speaker 3: Me too, I'm so inspired by you always. Yeah. 727 00:45:24,120 --> 00:45:28,759 Speaker 1: Same, And please tell Sammy, I just adore them. I 728 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,080 Speaker 1: hope we all get to hang. 729 00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:34,719 Speaker 3: I would love a double me too date and with 730 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,120 Speaker 3: our moms. A double date with our moms. 731 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:41,160 Speaker 1: We have to I can't wait, Like I actually can't 732 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:42,840 Speaker 1: wait to see them in the same space. 733 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:44,800 Speaker 3: I would love that, right. 734 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm really I've really hit a stride where I 735 00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:51,279 Speaker 1: like hanging out with my. 736 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:52,759 Speaker 2: Mom quite a bit. 737 00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:54,040 Speaker 3: Isn't that nice? 738 00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,400 Speaker 1: We didn't always have that, and we're in like a 739 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: really fun zone. 740 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 3: No, that's so nice. Do you think changed? 741 00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:07,640 Speaker 1: Honestly, I think there was work she had to do, 742 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,440 Speaker 1: which I have so much grace for, but also I'm like, 743 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,480 Speaker 1: I can't be the one to do it for you, 744 00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: And I think there were life lessons that I needed 745 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: to learn to understand. 746 00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 2: What she had been through. 747 00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:24,080 Speaker 1: And I think on the other side of us both 748 00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,960 Speaker 1: going through a real sort of deconstruction of life pattern 749 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,719 Speaker 1: Like I finally looked at my parents and was like, 750 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:35,200 Speaker 1: oh my god, I've literally repeated every mistake you guys 751 00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:41,280 Speaker 1: ever made, and that's not actually my fault or your fault. 752 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,960 Speaker 1: We never talked about any of it, and we finally 753 00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:46,479 Speaker 1: sat down and did like the family meeting and talked 754 00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 1: about everything, and it was so hard. But on the 755 00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:54,480 Speaker 1: other side, it was like we had shed all this 756 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: shit that wasn't any of ours to carry. Yeah, and 757 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,680 Speaker 1: it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just means we're 758 00:47:01,719 --> 00:47:04,000 Speaker 1: not continuing to carry it. 759 00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:04,720 Speaker 2: On our backs. 760 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,960 Speaker 1: And now we really like hanging out with each other 761 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 1: because all of our pain that's on our backs isn't 762 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:14,520 Speaker 1: like stabbing each other over. 763 00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:16,840 Speaker 3: You know, right, Yes, totally. 764 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:18,800 Speaker 2: It's really interesting. 765 00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 3: And that is like a testament to doing the work 766 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 3: on yourself that it then allows you to like connect 767 00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:28,239 Speaker 3: in a totally different way. 768 00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:31,640 Speaker 1: And then I was like, I do understand why I 769 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: rejected the navel gazing because I was unkind to myself 770 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:36,719 Speaker 1: and was like, you privileged bitch, like you've been on 771 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:38,480 Speaker 1: TV since you were twenty, go do. 772 00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,440 Speaker 2: Shit for other people. 773 00:47:39,520 --> 00:47:41,640 Speaker 1: But I'm like, maybe I should have just applied like 774 00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 1: ten percent of that work to me, because maybe it 775 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: wouldn't have taken me twenty adult years to have some 776 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:50,440 Speaker 1: aha moments. 777 00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:56,480 Speaker 3: That's right, aha aha. But you know what, don't blame yourself. 778 00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,040 Speaker 3: That's part of the problem. 779 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,239 Speaker 2: Yeah no, yeah, myself, Hop off the mat. 780 00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 3: Listen. We evolve in the time that we are meant 781 00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 3: to evolve. 782 00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:06,800 Speaker 2: That part. 783 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:08,640 Speaker 1: I've always been a late bloomer here I. 784 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:16,040 Speaker 3: Am same, same, always, and that's like honor that. That's nice. 785 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,920 Speaker 3: We did it, Yeah, we did it. 786 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:24,600 Speaker 2: We did it job. I know we'll hold it. 787 00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,480 Speaker 3: We're holding it. Yeah. 788 00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:28,239 Speaker 2: I just love you. 789 00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:29,359 Speaker 3: I love you too.