1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:03,279 Speaker 1: Before we begin, a reminder to please rate and review 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: our show that helps new listeners discover us and grow 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: the program. On this episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly. This 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: year marks the fiftieth anniversary of Title nine, the federal 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,640 Speaker 1: civil rights law that has been instrumental to women's sports, 6 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: and since Title nine's enactment, You'd be hard pressed to 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,280 Speaker 1: find any person who has done more for women's athletics 8 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: than Billy Jean King. In addition to her on court 9 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: accomplishments in tennis, King has served as an activist, a businesswoman, 10 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: and an iconic cultural figure. Today you'll hear from Billy 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: Jean King after she won Sis Muhammad Ali Legacy Award, 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: and to offer additional context, we have Caitlin Thompson of 13 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:48,159 Speaker 1: Racket Magazine here to put Billy Jean King's life and 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: achievements in perspective. I'm your host, John Gonzalez from Sports 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: Illustrated and I Heart Radio. This is Sports Illustrated Weekly. 16 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: My name is Caitlin Thompson. I am the co founder 17 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: and publisher of Racket, which is a quarterly magazine about tennis. 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:17,919 Speaker 1: I'm also a former Division one athlete who benefited unbelievably 19 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: gratefully from generations of women coming before me, not least 20 00:01:25,840 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 1: of whom was the tennis legend Billy Jean King. Tennis 21 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: is my last sport I grew up. Basketball's my favorite sport, 22 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: American football, volleyball, baseball. My younger brother played twelve years 23 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: of professional baseball. And then Susan Williams asked me to 24 00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: play tennis in fifth grade, so we went to her 25 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 1: country club. When I'm going, well, I'm never gonna get 26 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 1: to play tennis because my dad's a firefighter. We don't 27 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:56,760 Speaker 1: have that kind of money. She was a kid having 28 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: to go into private tennis clubs in southern California, you 29 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 1: which were very, very dissimilar from the public long beach 30 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: tennis courts that she grew up on, with chain link fences, 31 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: which were very similar to the ones I played on 32 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: as a kid. Never been a member of a country club, 33 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: Neither has Billy Jean. Playing at the Los Angeles Tennis Club, 34 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: the mecca of tennis in southern California, and I'm I 35 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: realized everybody wore white shoes, white clothes, you know, play 36 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: with white balls, and everybody's white. And I said, where's 37 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: everybody else? Althae and giftson the first black person ever 38 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: to win a major in tennis. She was my first shiro. 39 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: I would have never thought that, coming from the streets 40 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: of New York playing paddle tennis, that I would have 41 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: the opportunity to shake the hand of Queen Elizabeth. I 42 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: actually got to see her live at the Los Angeles 43 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: Tennis Club and I looked at her and if you 44 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: can see it, you can be it. And I said, 45 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 1: that's what number one looks like. I wasn't thinking racer. 46 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: I think I'm thinking she looks like number one. She's 47 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: the best in the world. I had this epiphany last 48 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 1: twelve and I think, tea my whole life. If I 49 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: can make it to number one, I have to re 50 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 1: number one. I'm a girl. Nobody will listen if I'm 51 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: not at least number one. And I thought, maybe, just 52 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: maybe I can make the world a better place. Now. 53 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: In the third set, Billy Jeans serves or a match 54 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: point beautiful shop, and the Wimbledon title is hers, Mrs 55 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: Billy Jean, King of America, the new Queen of Tennis. 56 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 1: Well we have to sort of remember is Billy Jean 57 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: was not only a star at the time, but also 58 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: somebody who was battling the tennis powers that be, Like, 59 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: I don't think they wanted to start their own tour, 60 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: Billy in the original nine and Glad Coleman. What they 61 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,559 Speaker 1: wanted was to have equal parody for pay, something approximating 62 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: equal promotion, equal TV time, you know, all of these 63 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: things to be commensurate with the men. The women were 64 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: proving that they could draw crowds, that they could be 65 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: incredibly similating. You know, they were putting female tennis players 66 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: on postage stamps, they were creating fashion crazes. And so 67 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: after decades of sort of being marginalized, seeing women getting gains, 68 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: and the US American Lawn Tennis Association, led by Jack Kramer, 69 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 1: sought to keep their boots on the necks of women, 70 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: like it was not a breakaway league for nothing. And 71 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: I think when you look at how often they tried 72 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 1: to get men to the table, she had meeting after meeting, 73 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:45,839 Speaker 1: after meeting with Jack Kramer, with Stan Smith, who also 74 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: vehemently opposed equality, with Arthur Ash, who vehemently opposed equality 75 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: with the women. Although later Arthur and Billy Jean sort 76 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 1: of made amends and came to an understanding about the 77 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 1: ties between civil rights and gender rights. But every man 78 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: who was playing tennis, from what I can tell, quite 79 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: threatened by the fact that women were playing alongside them 80 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: and asking for money and earning audiences, and they saw 81 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: it as a zero's home game. I mean, that's an 82 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: attitude that persists to this day. Basically, moment athletes just 83 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 1: were always in the background, and basically we weren't thought 84 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: of really that much, and so it's hard on all. 85 00:05:22,279 --> 00:05:24,480 Speaker 1: A lot done just on me. But we'd always talk 86 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: and say, I wish we had the media attention and 87 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: so people could hear our stories as well, because every 88 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: human being has a story. When you look at what 89 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 1: it took for Billy to take time out of her 90 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: touring schedule to sit down with brands and potential sponsors 91 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: and sell them on the concept creating a league and 92 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: personally wrangling people like Robert Kraft, who went on to 93 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: own the New England Patriots to me one of the 94 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: most like celebrated sports team owners of all timer Genie 95 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: and the Buses in l A who started as a 96 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:58,360 Speaker 1: world team tennis league holders, getting Virginia Slims to great 97 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: as sponsor tournament, getting other women to get paid a 98 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: dollar symbolically to leave the tour was a risk, and 99 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: she was willing to put her money where her mouth 100 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: was every single time. I was lucky enough to have 101 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: Racket participated in a documentary about World Team Tennis for 102 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: A twenty four this year, and one of the things 103 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: that I was really struck by was one of the 104 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 1: men who agreed sort of reluctantly to be part of 105 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 1: this league, who was a self professed, you know, sort 106 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: of male chauvinist, as was Bobby Riggs when he faced 107 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,680 Speaker 1: off against Billy and the battle of the sexist, and 108 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: he said this thing that I really made me laugh, 109 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: which is he was basically sort of won over of 110 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:39,799 Speaker 1: it by Billy Jean King, and he kind of changed 111 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: his views on women. He thought to himself, I'll be 112 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 1: a different cake when I get it this blender, which 113 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: is a phrase It doesn't really make any sense other 114 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: than it was so powerful to be faced with a relentless, 115 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: essentially a serve and volley type of personality who was 116 00:06:55,040 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: just going to take the fight to you and make 117 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: you submit. Following as an exclusive presentation of ABC Sports 118 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:08,839 Speaker 1: Live from the Aspid Dome in Houston, Texas, the tennis 119 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: battle of the sexist Billy Jean King versus Bobby Ricks 120 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: and you I can get I can't know, you know 121 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: you care? I think she knew it was important because 122 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: it could galvanize people in a cultural way. And it 123 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: was my moment because man, ninety people watching, that's never 124 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: gonna happen again playing a tennis match. And it wasn't 125 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: about tennis. It's about social change, at least it was 126 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: to me. And Title nine just been passed here before, 127 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: so I was hoping it would have long lasting impact. 128 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:51,280 Speaker 1: The cultural case needed to be made. And coming into 129 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: this match against Bobby Riggs, who was, you know, sort 130 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: of a washed up gambler, inveterate you know, booze hound, smoker, 131 00:07:59,600 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 1: gamble her. He was like a real wild personality. He 132 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: stands before I o for exactly what he is. A Charlotte, 133 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: a fake, the biggest hustler in the contemporary chronicle of sports, 134 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: now ancient, a relic of what he was once he 135 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: could play tennis. Now he results to beating women and 136 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: destroying the whole lip movement in the United States by himself. 137 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: The nub Bobby Riggs. I'm ready to play, and I'm 138 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: gonna tid a win for all the guys around the 139 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: world who feel as I do, that the mailst king 140 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: and the Mail is supreme. I've said it over and 141 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: over again. I still feel that way girls play and 142 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 1: ice came a tennis for girl. When they get out 143 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 1: there on a court with a man, even a tired 144 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:46,640 Speaker 1: old man, they're going to be in big couple. You know. 145 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: A lot of folks say, like, well, you know he 146 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: was maybe two decades old of the Billy Jing King. 147 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: Was this even a fair match? For context? He had 148 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: beaten Margaret Court, the other sort of luminary of that era. 149 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 1: Bobby Riggs beat her handily in what it became known 150 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:02,480 Speaker 1: as the Mother's Day Massacre. She was somebody who didn't 151 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 1: believe in gender parody. She was somebody who didn't believe 152 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: in racial parody. She famously supported apartheid in South Africa. 153 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: She is now a anti gay preacher who supports commercial 154 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 1: therapy and perth. You know, she's like a real gem. 155 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: But I don't think she at the time understood that 156 00:09:17,880 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: this wasn't just a way to get paid to play 157 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: an exhibition match, but in fact, when you put yourself 158 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:26,199 Speaker 1: up against a male athlete, You're really competing for all women. 159 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 1: Women's suffrage was less than fifty years old when Rob 160 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,559 Speaker 1: Wade hadn't yet been law. And you know, now in 161 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 1: a context in which women's like authority over their own 162 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: bodies is stripped away from us, like, it is so 163 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: hard to forget how much this country hates women. Billy 164 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: saw in that moment, and how she felt like she 165 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: was going to be playing for not just herself and 166 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 1: her own glory and probably the glory of her Nissan 167 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: Tennis League, but also every single woman who was being 168 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,800 Speaker 1: slapped on the ass as a secretary and kept out 169 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: of a boardroom and the things that we know persist 170 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: to this day. And then the fact that she went 171 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 1: out and played against Bobby Riggs and beat him in 172 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 1: the best of five in the Battle of the Sexes. 173 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 1: I think for many women became like a rallying cry, 174 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: this is gonna be the real match. This was really 175 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,120 Speaker 1: all about. Because Bobby challenged me in the first place. 176 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: I didn't want to start an issue. But now that 177 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: Margaret went ahead and opened the door did such a 178 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: miserable job. You know, I think that I can beat Bobby. 179 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: I won't be able to strike you out. I'm not marred. 180 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: I love pressure. You can try to thank me all 181 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 1: you want. And I think she went into this match 182 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: knowing what was on the line, knowing she would have 183 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,080 Speaker 1: to not only beat Bobby Riggs, but beat him vehemently, 184 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,840 Speaker 1: allow him to spout his male chowbin, his nonsense about 185 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: how women deserve to be in the kitchen, and you know, 186 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 1: no little girl is going to come up and show 187 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: him what's what in his own court, but also play 188 00:10:51,320 --> 00:10:55,040 Speaker 1: along with it and use every opportunity to pugilistically make 189 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,680 Speaker 1: the case that this was this cultural moment, the winner 190 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: of the Battle of the sex it Billy Jean six 191 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: six three six three. I haven't gone through a day 192 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,239 Speaker 1: yet that someone hasn't brought it up, not one day. 193 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:16,679 Speaker 1: The women. What really happened right after, particularly, is they 194 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: got very excited. They said they finally have more self confidence. 195 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: For the first time, they had the courage to speak up, 196 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: for the first time, they asked for a raise. Billy 197 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: has always understood these cultural moments as being lightning rods 198 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: for ways to push forward. And I think for that reason, 199 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 1: you know, making a film, however good or bad, out 200 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: of it, was a logical thing for her to sign 201 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: onto and be excited about. Are you talking, Abobby more nonsense? 202 00:11:47,320 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: He spelled. The worst going to be when you lose. 203 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 1: I'm the ladies number one, I'm the champ. Why would 204 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 1: I lose? Okausnosaurs can't play tennis. She's very aware of 205 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: how these stories tend to get buried or rewritten with 206 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: each successive generation. The victors get to write the history, 207 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 1: and if you're not part of that, you're going to 208 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: get relegated to the dustband rule cold to find her 209 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: a lot of how she transcends sports, activism, culture, our imagination. 210 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: Being on stage with you know Elton John who wrote 211 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: Philadelphia Freedoms, which became a gay anthem for her to 212 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: celebrate her World team Tennis League team called the Philadelphia Freedoms. 213 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 1: You know, she just is at the center of gravity 214 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: and a lot of these moments because she can't help herself. 215 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: She just can't not be that person. I think, uh 216 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: and I you know, I think it's for everyone's betterment. 217 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: One thing that Billy has always understood is the power 218 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: of not only celebrity and culture, but also the power 219 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: of money. When she was founding a league, when she 220 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: was getting her own sponsors. Virginia Slims notably came in 221 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: as the first sponsor of the w t A Tour. 222 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: It wasn't until they could pay prize money that she 223 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: felt like it was a real thing that was happening, 224 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: and not just sort of charity honorari and prize money, 225 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: but prize money that's somewhat approximated the men's equal prize 226 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: money at the US Open. And I would have got 227 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: the sponsor for that to make up the difference. And 228 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: then I went and talked to the tournament and talked 229 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: to Billy Tolbert, the tournament director. Again, by the way, 230 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: we've got them, need to make the difference. You don't 231 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: have to go out and get one more time with sponsorship. 232 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: We will give it to you. He went, what now, 233 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: I don't think that would have happened or I would 234 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: have had the understanding or the courage to go do that, 235 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: to ask if I had learned. Because of my ownership 236 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: and being in business in the tennis business at the time, 237 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: I think it made me understand the other side. As 238 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: soon as she was able to establish the Women's Sentence 239 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,920 Speaker 1: Association and make sure it was sort of financially sustainable. 240 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 1: She turned her attention to soccer and to basketball, and 241 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 1: to women's softball and all these other sports because she 242 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: knew that the power sort of to negotiate was really 243 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: where they were going to be able to make permanent, 244 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: lasting change and honestly like create permanent respect in the 245 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: in the I think in the larger sort of cultural context, 246 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: athletes just want more. I want more money, I want 247 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: more of this. I want better hotels, I want this, 248 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: I want better food. I want, I want, I want, 249 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 1: I want. And then I asked him, do you know 250 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: about the business. I don't know. I think if you 251 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: want to negotiate that you need to know all sides, 252 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: not just your side. It ties to Billy Jean King 253 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: and Serena Williams, who has the most grand slams of 254 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 1: any player male or woman, who was arguably the most 255 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:19,680 Speaker 1: dominant player certainly of her era. She doesn't happen without 256 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: Venus Williams. And Venus Williams is actually the tie between 257 00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: Billy and Serena because Venus not only one a handful 258 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: of grand slams herself and broke through so that Serena 259 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: could be not totally burdened with being an activist. Really, 260 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,480 Speaker 1: Venus was the activist between the two sisters, and she 261 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:42,720 Speaker 1: took the playbook right out of Billy Jeans maneuvers. I 262 00:15:42,800 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: arrived to the Grand Slams and Tennis at the age 263 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: of sixteen years old, found it I wasn't being paid 264 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: equal and that's a hard blow for young women and 265 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 1: I don't want other young women to go through this. 266 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: She went to Wimbledon, which at the time was not 267 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,480 Speaker 1: giving when men and women equal pay. She wrote an 268 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: op for The Times of London about why denying her 269 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: equal pay was the wrong thing to do. And then 270 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: also she went behind the scenes at the All England 271 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: Lawn and Tennis Club and made a case to the 272 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: board filled with, as you might guess, old white men, 273 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: and then went out the next day and beat Lindsey 274 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,400 Speaker 1: Davenport in what is considered one of the greatest final 275 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 1: matches men or women of all time. So many people 276 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: like this young lady of the Venus Williards has bounched 277 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: back into the room as socle but the Wimbledon talk 278 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 1: to it. So I think Venus really understood from Billy 279 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 1: because they talked in because Billy was very, very keen 280 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 1: to get them on board and get them situated in 281 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: the tennis tour, because she knew that her star was 282 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,760 Speaker 1: fading and she would have to find people to uphold 283 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: not only her legacy but the legacy of women's sports 284 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: and push it forward as they have done. And I 285 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: think with Billy giving Venus the playbook to be an activist, 286 00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 1: to go into those rooms to write the op eds, 287 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: then you have Serena who doesn't have the pressure on 288 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: her to be the first in the space. She's doing 289 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,080 Speaker 1: it with her sister. She can just honestly play tennis 290 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: part of Billy's legacy. And I think Serena and Venus 291 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: for sure understand that these women who came before them, 292 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: much like Title nine did for all these generations of 293 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: women who came before me, who I meet in boardrooms, 294 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: who I see, you know, giving speeches on the floors 295 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 1: of Congress, like these are people who literally walked so 296 00:17:30,119 --> 00:17:32,000 Speaker 1: that we could run. And I think when you look 297 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: at what a seismic figure like Billy did with her 298 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: vision and then continues to do by backing it up 299 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,440 Speaker 1: and training the next generation of folks, then it's sort 300 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: of clear where folks can pick up the mantle and 301 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 1: you know, and essentially keep going. Tennis is a catalyst. 302 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:51,959 Speaker 1: It was my way, it was my way of reaching 303 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:54,240 Speaker 1: others and and I'd always try to get the other 304 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: players that think like this, obviously, because they all come 305 00:17:56,840 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: from different towns, different villages, different countries, and one thing 306 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: about tennis were really international and this is an opportunity 307 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: for them to make their place, whatever they decided to do, 308 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 1: to make it better, to improve it, you know, because 309 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:13,080 Speaker 1: we're one of the lucky ones. Athletes are one of 310 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: the lucky ones. It's a reason to me, it's a responsibility. 311 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,399 Speaker 1: Tennis showed that women from any country in the world, 312 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,800 Speaker 1: from any background in the world can compete on equal 313 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 1: footing with men. That's still not true in every other sport, 314 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: not quite. Tennis is still the highest paying for women, 315 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: and it's the one because of Title nine the women 316 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: are able to access. If not the most, then then 317 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 1: certainly in terms of popularity. Tennis doesn't need to be 318 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 1: alone in that. I think, if anything, I would love 319 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,439 Speaker 1: to see that every single sport. But because this sport, 320 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,479 Speaker 1: like I said, it's got its problems, and the all 321 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:54,320 Speaker 1: white tennis clubs and the you know, lack of sponsorship 322 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 1: or quality. You know, there's no domestic violence policy. However, 323 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,400 Speaker 1: on the plus side, I think it has been inspiring 324 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 1: for generations of women. If you look at professional soccer, 325 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,120 Speaker 1: it's existed for less than this fan of my lifetime. 326 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: The same is true for literally every other women's league. 327 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: The w n b A didn't exist before I was born. 328 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 1: But you know what, women were playing tennis professionally, winning 329 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,840 Speaker 1: and hoisting cups over their head when before my parents 330 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: were born, right, And so a lot of this has 331 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: to do with generations and decades of visibility and decades 332 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,000 Speaker 1: of progress. You know, he did couldn't get a credit 333 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: card in nineteen seventy three. Title lie has just been 334 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,600 Speaker 1: passed in V two and everybody thinks it was about sports. 335 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,679 Speaker 1: Sports is not even mentioned in title nine. Uh. I 336 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: think it talks about activity or something. We got lucky 337 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,280 Speaker 1: that that was added, I think. And then you know, um, 338 00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 1: I Senator birched By as one of my heroes, and 339 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: he and I talked about this, but he had no 340 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: idea that the effect it was gonna have and what 341 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 1: it did. Though, it's got rid of the quotas um 342 00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: for schools for women, like if you want to go 343 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:56,919 Speaker 1: to Harvard to get your medical degree. They only allowed 344 00:19:56,920 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: five per cent in a classroom before nineteen seventy two. 345 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: And you'll notice in the seventies early seventies a lot 346 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,720 Speaker 1: of schools became co ed because this is about federal 347 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:13,120 Speaker 1: money having to be used equally at colleges, high schools, 348 00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: private or public. If you get any federal funds, you 349 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: had to for the first time give it equally to 350 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:22,919 Speaker 1: boys and girls. And then you'll see all these schools 351 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: if you follow the money and always happens. Title nine 352 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: is is typically put into a sports contact. Specifically. You 353 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,120 Speaker 1: know a lot of collegiate athletes, obviously because they are 354 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:38,240 Speaker 1: seen as the biggest beneficiaries of Title nine. I was 355 00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:41,320 Speaker 1: one of them. I got a tennis scholarship to play 356 00:20:41,359 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: at the University of Missouri, where I studied magazine journalism. 357 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: I got a free education that I probably would not 358 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,399 Speaker 1: have otherwise been able to afford. But I think a 359 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: lot of people don't really understand about Title nine, especially 360 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: who haven't spent a lot of time around female athletes 361 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: and women in positions of power. Is the amount of 362 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: women in leadership roles that have benefited from this law 363 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: and it is a direct result of their being basically 364 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,680 Speaker 1: them being invested in by American society. If you look 365 00:21:13,680 --> 00:21:17,119 Speaker 1: at fortune companies, if you look at the you know 366 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:20,359 Speaker 1: US Congress, like Chris and Jilbrand who played college sports, 367 00:21:20,520 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: or Uzio Duba, who you know, wins Emmys. But also 368 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: it was a college track athlete paid for by Title 369 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,679 Speaker 1: nine at Boston College. When women, when whoever is not 370 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 1: getting a fair deal in this case, women particularly women 371 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,720 Speaker 1: of color and live with disability, when they get the 372 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 1: opportunity boom, they take advantage of it. And that's why 373 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 1: you have this flood through the years because it took 374 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: a long time for Title line to start kicking in. 375 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 1: It didn't kick in in the fall of seventy two, 376 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: even those passed June nineteen seventy two. It really and 377 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 1: it's still not even yet. So it's we have a 378 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 1: long way to go still, but at least you have 379 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 1: to get things started. I thought this year would be 380 00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 1: sort of like a celebratory year, to be like, hey, 381 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: Title nine, like you know, it's it's fifty years old, 382 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: and look how far we've come. And you know, all 383 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: these women that won the Olympic gold medal in and 384 00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: beyond and all these women's sports leagues that are now 385 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: grappling with and in some cases achieving parody with their 386 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,120 Speaker 1: male counterparts, like the U S women's national soccer team 387 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: for example, hockey, basketball, certainly tennis. All of these gender 388 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 1: pay issues are resonant throughout sports. It all goes back 389 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 1: to that generation of women who was raised and fully 390 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 1: funded by Title nine. Like, it's not an accident. This 391 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 1: is a natural conclusion of what happens if you empower 392 00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:40,080 Speaker 1: women and then give them something close to equal footing. 393 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: It's not quite equal, but something close to equal footing. 394 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: And now we're having this conversation instead of like a 395 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:47,160 Speaker 1: celebratory town like, oh, we've rolled back and made laws 396 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: specifically that violate the sanctity of women's ability to choose 397 00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: for themselves what happens with their bodies. And so it's 398 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: sort of for me underscores how important it is codify 399 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: protections for women and protect them at all costs, because 400 00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,640 Speaker 1: otherwise we have a society that's seemingly pretty intent on 401 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: on rolling back the rights of women to exist equally 402 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:13,479 Speaker 1: in society at every turn. Tennis has sort of been 403 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: on the right side of history more than It hasn't 404 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 1: forces inherently political. Who we let play, who gets onto 405 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 1: the field, who we celebrate, who we pay all matters. 406 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: It's all choices. It's not an accident. And so I 407 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,119 Speaker 1: look back at these decades of something approximating equality with 408 00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: Title nine, and I think to myself, like, Wow, they 409 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: had to push so hard for this. We owe it 410 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,960 Speaker 1: to them to push further and not let it backslide. 411 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: Billy Jane King is a Tennis Hall of Famer and 412 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: the latest recipient of s I S. Muhammad Ali Legacy Award. 413 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: Pay Attention. And this is the one thing that Muhammad 414 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 1: Ali Ali and I used to talk about, pay attention. 415 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: You never know how another person is going to touch 416 00:23:54,280 --> 00:24:01,200 Speaker 1: your life, how you're going to touch their life. Caitlin 417 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: Thompson is the publisher and co founder of Racket magazine. 418 00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:08,560 Speaker 1: Caitlin also recently reviewed Billy Jean King's autobiography All In 419 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: for The New York Times. Will post a link to 420 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,439 Speaker 1: that in our show notes. Thanks for listening, and a 421 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:16,840 Speaker 1: reminder to please rate and review our show that helps 422 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,399 Speaker 1: people find us. Sports Illustrated Weekly is a production of 423 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated and I Heart Radio. For more podcasts, from 424 00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple podcast, 425 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,159 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more 426 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:36,360 Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated's best stories and podcasts, visit SI dot com. 427 00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced by Jessica Yarmoski, 428 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: Jordan Rizzieri, and Isaac Lee, who was also our sound engineer. 429 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: Our senior producers are Dan Bloom and Harry swart Out. 430 00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Scott Brody and me John Gonzalez. 431 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Nolan Schneider, and if you've 432 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: stuck around this long, we leave you with this. I'm 433 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,960 Speaker 1: really just a backboard for you to hit against. I 434 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: like that metaphor.