1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Green says peace 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: is the answer, so nothing makes any sense. 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: We have such a great show for you today. 6 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 1: The Linked Project z own Rick Wilson joins us to 7 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: talk about regime change and why it always works out great. 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Then we'll talk to the Brennan Centers Michael Waldman about 9 00:00:31,960 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: protecting the vote in the midterms. But first the news. 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 3: So, Mollie, while our Democratic leadership seems pretty neutered on 11 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 3: the subject of opposing Trump's war with rn AOC is 12 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 3: saying he must be impeached, what do you see him here? 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:52,599 Speaker 1: So a lot of people think that Donald Trump bombing 14 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: Iran without asking Congress, which he's supposed to do, and 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: then only notifying Republicans and not Democrats is impeachment worthy. 16 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:04,759 Speaker 1: This is the reason that I think people are so 17 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: angry at Democrats. And they come over to me during 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 1: my readings when I'm traveling and they say they're fearous, 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,479 Speaker 1: and you know why they're fears because they don't feel 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: that leadership is as angry as they are. 21 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 2: Right, that's why they're mad. They want the democratic leadership 22 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 2: to be as galvanized as they are. You have Americans 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 2: marching on the street, you have Americans saying this is 24 00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: not okay. So if you have that, then why do 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 2: you have. 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: Democratic leadership saying, oh, this is what Israel wants, so 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,319 Speaker 1: we have to go along with it. I think AOC 28 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: is much closer to where are most of the democratic 29 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: base is, and you really want leadership to reflect the 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 1: feelings of the base, at least in a case like this, 31 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: So I think this is a really good example. Now, also, 32 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: there were members of Congress who put together a resolution 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: against the war because they know that no nobody wants this. 34 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: The polling on this is terrible. Literally, no one wants this. 35 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: This is like one of the dumbest. At least with Afghanistan, 36 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: you could at least make the case that nine to 37 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: eleven was somehow tangentially involved in this. But with this, 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: there is no fucking reason. But it is the dumbest, 39 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,839 Speaker 1: most pointless thing, and it has nothing to do with us, 40 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: and it's just insane. Right Netnyahu has been saying that 41 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: Iran has made nukes. 42 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 4: Forever thirty three years. 43 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Right, we have never had a good experience trying to 44 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: enact to regime change. There is zero reason for this. 45 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: And let me tell you there are a lot of 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 1: members of Congress and here there are fifty forty nine 47 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:43,640 Speaker 1: members of Congress who voted against Trump doing this unilaterally, 48 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: and everyone from Rocanna to Thomas Massey to AOC and 49 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: there are national security people on that list, people like 50 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: Tim Kaine. This is not a lefty or a righty thing. 51 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,080 Speaker 1: This is a dummy or a smarty thing. And the 52 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: reality is the only people who supported this strike were 53 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: Trumpian sick of fans and John Fetterman, who is just 54 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: wants to make people upset. 55 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 4: Well and is also staunchly pro Israeli. 56 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 2: But this isn't even pro Israel. It is just stupid. 57 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 4: You say, dumb versus smart. 58 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 3: But I was told by jd Vance today that the 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 3: difference between past problems in the Middle East is that 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: we had dumb presidents. 61 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 4: This one's smart. 62 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 63 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: I think that's a good hill for him to engage 64 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: with the idea that Donald Trump is smarter than other presidents. 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:31,960 Speaker 1: That I think that's the play there. I like Jada 66 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: Vance on the Sunday shows saying that we weren't at 67 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: war with Iran, we were at war with Iran's nukes. 68 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because that distinction. 69 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: I'm sure the Iranian people will well, absolutely, that will 70 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. 71 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 3: Meanwhile, little Marco could not even say that Iran was 72 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:53,000 Speaker 3: close to having nuclear power because even that was a 73 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 3: bridge too far for his bullshit. 74 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 1: But also like regime change, Meanwhile, we have we have 75 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: ICE supporting people who are legal. My favorite ICE trope 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: is that they keep arresting the same people and happy 77 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: to let them go. Yeah, so our private military that 78 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: wears masks so people can't identify them and arrest people 79 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,679 Speaker 1: who are recording them. Those guys, they had an ICE 80 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:21,799 Speaker 1: detainee die in transit. 81 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,480 Speaker 2: Okay, so that's they're also killing people. Okay. His six 82 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 2: children have been frustrated. Two of the children said he 83 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: had no health conditions before being detained. By the way, 84 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: that guy is going to be able to sue. And 85 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 2: it's not even I mean, he's dead, so his family 86 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: will be able to sue. It's just this is so 87 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: incredibly appalling and disgusting, and our country has just completely 88 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 2: lost its mind, and it's just terrible. 89 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: No. 90 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 3: We had La City Council Member Hugo Soto Martinez this 91 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: week saying that Ice was going to a battered woman's 92 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 3: shelter and looking for immigrants like you want to talk 93 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 3: about like going to the people at the worst moment 94 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 3: of their life. Like this is beyond the cruelty is 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 3: the point. This is just literally the most disgusting behavior 96 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,279 Speaker 3: you can imagine that no one voted. 97 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: For Yeah, well, I think Steven Miller voted for well. 98 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 4: I mean, it is his sick mind behind all this. 99 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 4: Speaking of sick minds and the agenda of this administration, 100 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 4: the Trump administration has ordered California to remove gender identity 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 4: from sex ed. 102 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: This is so stupid. This is like their favorite culture 103 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: war issue. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Why do you care 104 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: what other people say about their gender? It's so I mean, 105 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: it's literally like we're a decade into this fucking thing 106 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: and all and Trump world has like three things they do, 107 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: so here we go. They're punishing LGBTQ kids. The State 108 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,120 Speaker 1: Department receives five point eight million dollars, which is like, 109 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: that's like how much the military spends on GOM under 110 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,120 Speaker 1: the program to teach safe sex practices, HIV prevention and 111 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: abstinence to high need its populations, homeless, use minorities, migrant 112 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,479 Speaker 1: farm workers, incarcerated use s in foster. I mean, this 113 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 1: is like they're just punishing the most vulnerable people because 114 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: they know that that's what the base likes. I am 115 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: so depressed every fucking day, and it's like it never 116 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 1: gets better. Rick Wilson is the founder of the Lincoln 117 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: Project and the host of the Enemy's List. 118 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 2: Welcome back to Fast Politics. 119 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 5: Rick Wilson, Molly John Fast how are you? 120 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: I'm good enough, man? 121 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 4: What good enough? Good enough? 122 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 5: You're ready to face the new world we live in? 123 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: Of h I found a very cheap dentist who works 124 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: on the weekends, and God blessed. 125 00:06:55,279 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 5: That's always a it's always a benefit, right. 126 00:06:57,600 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 2: So let's talk about regime change. 127 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 5: You know, it always works out pretty well. As a 128 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 5: as a former fan of regime change, I've noticed over 129 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:09,520 Speaker 5: the over the decades, it rarely happens the way you 130 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 5: think it's going to happen. 131 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what you know. It's funny because McCrystal, mccraven, 132 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: mra mc. 133 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 5: McRaven, and there's a Crystal Bill there's. 134 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: Bill Crystal, there's a Crystal, Yes, McCrystal. 135 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 5: M H. Stanley. 136 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 1: Stanley was on television talking about how it never goes 137 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:31,880 Speaker 1: the way you think it's gonna go. Correct, when you 138 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: start bombing a country you have absolutely no business being 139 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 1: in for any number of reasons. 140 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 2: Discuss been to this. 141 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 5: Rodeo, tried it before, it didn't work out. We have 142 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 5: case A and case B. Case A George Herbert Walker 143 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 5: Bush my old boss. 144 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,880 Speaker 2: And that one you were in, right. 145 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, that was that was the one I was. I 146 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 5: was around for that, for that festivity. That war was 147 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 5: very carefully bounded. We had a bunch of rules where 148 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 5: we said things like and by the way, because I 149 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 5: was a young, hot headed, you know, young dumb ass, 150 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 5: I was like, we should have gone all the way 151 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 5: to beg dde. 152 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 4: Well then we did. 153 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 5: We did that the next time around and did not 154 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 5: work out for us the way anyone wanted it to 155 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 5: or thought it. And of course Iran makes Iran. Iraq 156 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 5: is like the the starter level in the video game, uh, 157 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 5: compared to Iran. And I do think it's important we 158 00:08:28,240 --> 00:08:32,439 Speaker 5: all we all just acknowledge the Iranian government are some 159 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 5: of the worst possible abusers of human rights in the universe. 160 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,359 Speaker 5: They are very, very shitty, horrible bad people, and cautioning 161 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 5: against Donald Trump involving us in a open ended by 162 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 5: the way, because it's never oh it's one and done right. No, no, no, 163 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 5: bless your heart, it does not ever work that way. 164 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 5: Now they get a vote. Now they get to go 165 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 5: out and say, huh, okay, well you did you did 166 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,080 Speaker 5: to us with the B two and and these massive 167 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 5: ordinance penetrating weapons. Now we're gonna well up an embassy 168 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 5: or take hostages, or kill Americans or hijacked plane. 169 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 2: But we don't know. 170 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 5: They're going to do next, right, and the likelihood of 171 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 5: what they do next sucks. 172 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: I want it also caution that we cannot trust anything 173 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 1: this administration does. 174 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 5: Right the idea that Trump came out and said and 175 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 5: said immediately and if it was funny because I got 176 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,840 Speaker 5: a text message from a former intelligence agency official, very 177 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:35,040 Speaker 5: high level person, who said Trump giving us a battle 178 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 5: damage assessment within minutes after the raid is over, when 179 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 5: the military doesn't know yet how effective it was. And look, 180 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 5: the massive ordinance penetrator weapon is a very powerful device. 181 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 5: We've never used them in combat before. We don't know 182 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 5: what effectiveness they had at for now. They could have 183 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 5: done they could have wiped out the whole thing, or 184 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,440 Speaker 5: they could have had an effect. We don't know they 185 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 5: could have. You know, look, when you're fighting uranium with 186 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 5: with you know you have uranium hexafluoride in the in 187 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 5: the refining process, you you better hope that you not 188 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:10,559 Speaker 5: knock the whole fucking thing out, because if the waste 189 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,880 Speaker 5: product is splashing around, that's not great either. There's a 190 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 5: lot of things here. 191 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 1: There's a lock and go wrong. I mean, I think 192 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: the top line from smart people is a lock and 193 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: go wrong. You're opening the door to any number of 194 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: unforeseen consequences. 195 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: Uh huh, and the whole justification for doing it doesn't 196 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:30,960 Speaker 2: make a ton of sense. 197 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 5: Look, I was a admittedly I was a skeptic of 198 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 5: JCPOA at the time. A lot of serious people were. 199 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 5: It wasn't just some of it was partisan, but it 200 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 5: wasn't just partisan. But a lot of people looked at 201 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 5: JCPOA and said, oh, this is explain what j JCPOA 202 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 5: was the international agreement that was spearheaded by the United 203 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 5: States while Barack Obama was president to stop Iranian enrichment 204 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 5: of FISA materials, right, Because folks, it's easy to build 205 00:10:59,520 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 5: the boss part of a nuclear weapon, building the mechanical 206 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 5: part of the nuclear weapon, the the device is any 207 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 5: any sophisticated country can do it, and Iran is quite 208 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 5: a sophisticated country. Filling it up with all the fissile 209 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 5: nuclear material to make it an actual nuclear weapon is really, 210 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 5: really hard. So this JCPOA delayed that for five years, 211 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 5: and Donald Trump, because he hates Barack Obama and did 212 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,160 Speaker 5: not want a deal with Barack Obama's name on it, 213 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,600 Speaker 5: killed JPOA, hoping that it would speed up the process 214 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 5: of allowing either the US or Israel to strike the 215 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 5: Iranian nuclear capacity. But what it did was delayed it 216 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,840 Speaker 5: so that Iran could build up its nuclear capacity. So 217 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 5: I'm not really sure it worked the way they thought 218 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 5: it was going to work. And now what we have 219 00:11:54,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 5: is the there are some indications that the Iranians evacuated 220 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:03,679 Speaker 5: the ficile material that was absolutely now. 221 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 2: Right, that they may have gotten their heads up. 222 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,320 Speaker 5: Right, And you know, we were we the administration was 223 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,559 Speaker 5: certainly flagging it to everybody who would listened for the 224 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 5: few days before, right, But we don't know, we don't 225 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:20,319 Speaker 5: know how much facile material got out, like how much 226 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 5: they were able to exfil trait. We don't know the 227 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 5: severity of the damage yet. It will be severe. I mean, 228 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 5: make no mistake, this is not going to be trivial. 229 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 5: And the Runians are not going to be happy about 230 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 5: this outcome. But we don't have a super clear read 231 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 5: yet on on just how bad it is for them. 232 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 1: And look, it's not like we have the A team 233 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: in this administration, right we have a lot of very 234 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: confident people were taken out because he got Pedro. 235 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 5: Del Drunko and a bunch of these idiots. You've got 236 00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 5: his own head of the Director of National Intelligence, Gabbert 237 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 5: has been completely sidelined. She's not involved in any of 238 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 5: the discussions or meetings. You've got Marco Rubio looking like 239 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 5: a hostage standing behind Trump today. By the way, I 240 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 5: don't know if you noticed this today on on CBS 241 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 5: Sunday CBS Show, but Marco is sporting a fabulous new 242 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 5: hair piece. 243 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: I did not notice that. What I noticed was Marco 244 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: on CBS with the Margaret saying, you know, I thought 245 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: that was a great moment. 246 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:31,200 Speaker 2: He said. 247 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: She said, well, military intelligence that you know had you 248 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 1: know assess is that they have no nukes and he says, 249 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,199 Speaker 1: he's he gets very haffy and he's like, how would 250 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 1: you even know what military intelligence is? And then he 251 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: goes you can see the wheels sort of turning, and 252 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: then he's like, no, wait, He's like, I don't care 253 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: about military and doubt intelligence doesn't mean any public intelligence 254 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,600 Speaker 1: doesn't mean there is no This is moving so stupidly, 255 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:03,320 Speaker 1: and you can watch it moving through their brains. 256 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 5: And all their mental processes. You can tell from it 257 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 5: from a distance. All their mental processes are Is Donald 258 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 5: going to be mad at me? 259 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 4: Right? 260 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 5: That's all they think. Will Donald'll be angry if I 261 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 5: say something that happens to mistakenly be the truth. And 262 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 5: you can see that with Marco today, he was very 263 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 5: nervous about it. I think we all have sort of 264 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 5: come to the conclusion. I think correctly that essentially what 265 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 5: happened here was bib Datna who manipulated pressured Mojo Trump 266 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 5: into doing this, and they're now all doing what they 267 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,800 Speaker 5: always do. They're having to go in reverse and reverse 268 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 5: engineer explanations and excuses and reasons and blah blah blah 269 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,560 Speaker 5: for why this was a great idea, and yeah, and 270 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 5: so they'll make up anything to not have to say 271 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 5: the truth. 272 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 1: I think that's a good point about reverse engineering the idea, 273 00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: because you know, it feels so much like weapons of 274 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: mass destruction now, it feels so oh yeah. 275 00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 5: If you don't have that same vibe, if you don't 276 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 5: have WMD vibes right now, you're not you haven't been 277 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 5: around them, around in this campfire for a while. Because 278 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 5: this is this is the structure, although it was different 279 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 5: with the Bush administration in one key element. They got 280 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 5: Congress to vote for an authorization, right, Donald Trump told 281 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 5: the Republicans in Congress, but not the Democrats. 282 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,440 Speaker 2: Right, which is really. 283 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 5: Which is like unprecedented in its duchiness. 284 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: Imagine if a Democrat did that, but also. 285 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 5: Much once again the counterfactual world of if a Democrat 286 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 5: did this. 287 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: But also Mike Johnson didn't call anyone back, right, and 288 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: you had Thomas Massey. I'd love to have like two 289 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: seconds with you about Thomas Massey. Here's Thomas Massey. And 290 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 1: I understand that I do not agree with that man 291 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: on almost everything. What I do think it's interesting that 292 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 1: Thomas Massey is standing up to Trump more than pretty 293 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: much anyone. 294 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 5: Right, He's standing up to Trump more than a lot 295 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 5: of Democrats to be. 296 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: That's what I was thinking. 297 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 5: Why, I mean, there are a lot of Democrats who 298 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 5: are much more accommodated to Trump than Thomas Massey is. 299 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 300 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 5: Why, the guy's got nothing to lose, you know what. 301 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 5: He's in a safe district. He's been reelected a couple 302 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 5: of times against Trump's will, and he's kind of a 303 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 5: contrarian dickhead, you know, and sometimes being a contrarian dickhead 304 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,840 Speaker 5: and you end up being somebody you don't want to 305 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 5: have to dinner. But he is right, you know, you 306 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 5: got to be honest. He's not wrong about absolutely right. 307 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 5: He's not wrong about the constitutional you know principle here 308 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 5: that you know now way in a worn out with 309 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 5: Iran is out of their fucking mind. 310 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: MAGA has launched from at CEOs a pack in efforts 311 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: to oust Massy from Congress, of course, for being insufficient 312 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 1: lay loyal to Trump. 313 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 5: Naturally, this is my not shocked face. He's a guy 314 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 5: who who you know, has a lot of name mighty 315 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 5: in his district. He's probably not going to lose that seat. 316 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 5: I think that he's a he's a he's a jackass. 317 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 5: But you know, even even seeing one guy in the 318 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 5: in the GOP who's saying the words, know, this is wrong, 319 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 5: this is this is stupid, this is unconstitutional. I mean, 320 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 5: I'm not saying it's some sort of like blessed sense 321 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:35,120 Speaker 5: of relief, but it's so unusual, so out of out 322 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 5: of the normal bounds of the Republican world that you're 323 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:40,560 Speaker 5: kind of like, wow, this is weird. 324 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's really important. So let's talk about 325 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: where we are right now. Trump still has legislation, the 326 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: one piece of legislation he's trying to pass. It is 327 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: wildly unpopular. It is being wildly the Senate. What do 328 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: you think now? I mean, there's a lot to not 329 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:06,480 Speaker 1: recommend there, but do you think and the House is 330 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 1: sort of they're going back and. 331 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,640 Speaker 5: I think Trump interestingly right now has an excuse to say, oh, 332 00:18:13,720 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 5: we're at war now you must pass the big beautiful bill. Yeah, 333 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 5: and I think that may have upped its chances a 334 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 5: little bit. But but you know, if there are a 335 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,159 Speaker 5: lot of economic externalities right now, if he closed the 336 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 5: straight of hormone, if Iron closes the straight of hormas 337 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 5: and gas prices start to spike and the bond market 338 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 5: loses its mind. There are reasons to say this may 339 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 5: not work out like we thought. I'm not very sanguine 340 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 5: for the bill as it stands right now. If we 341 00:18:42,200 --> 00:18:46,120 Speaker 5: weren't shooting game with Iran right now, the bill would 342 00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 5: probably be in more trouble. There is a rally around 343 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 5: the flag effect from the anti war party suddenly very 344 00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 5: excited about going to war. 345 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: It's just so incredibly stupid. But you think that this 346 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:03,159 Speaker 1: bombing Iran, even though it's so unpopular, the polling is 347 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: so unpopular, you think it still has a rally around 348 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: the flag effect inside MAGA. 349 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 5: It does, and I, you. 350 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:14,879 Speaker 1: Know, everybody, even though MAGA Trump ran on not starting. 351 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 5: You know, I said this to last week, like early 352 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 5: or mid midweek last week, I guess I said to 353 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 5: somebody or on the broadcast or something. I can't remember 354 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 5: now it's all an old ones together. I said, this 355 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 5: will end up being one of those things where MAGA 356 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 5: they are absolutely positively against any kind of new war. 357 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 5: They don't want any of this this neocon foreign policy, 358 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 5: and the minute Trump attacks Iran, they're going to say, well, 359 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 5: of course we had to attack Iran. We love This 360 00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 5: is a war worth fighting, right and they are and 361 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 5: and a lot of them you know, you got, You've got, 362 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 5: You've got a lot of these guys who on paper 363 00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 5: are the hardcore MAGA influencer types. That's where this fight 364 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 5: is causing. The anxiety for MAGA is at the influencer level. 365 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 5: It's not at it's not at the base, it's not 366 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 5: at the like every day right, it's Tucker, it's Alex Jones, 367 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 5: it's Steve Bannon, and they're all like playing this game, 368 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 5: like Okay, shit, I hate this. But can I get 369 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,159 Speaker 5: away with hating it if Trump really wants it? And 370 00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 5: the answer is they cannot. If Trump wants a bass 371 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:23,199 Speaker 5: is gonna say I I captain whatever you want. So 372 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 5: I think that's where we're at right now. 373 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 2: Unbelievably shitty, Oh yeah, oh yeah. 374 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: And opens the door to all sorts of unknown unknowns. 375 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,719 Speaker 5: The the yes to quote Donald Rumsfeld, Yes, And I 376 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:42,560 Speaker 5: do think, Polly, there's a really realistic chance that Iran 377 00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 5: is going to do something truly fucking horrible, right right. 378 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 5: I worry about that, and I and I think I 379 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:49,919 Speaker 5: think it was easy for a lot of these boga 380 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,080 Speaker 5: guys to go, Well, the Israel's already taken care of 381 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 5: it and it'll be fine. Now. I don't share that view, 382 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 5: I think. I think unfortunately, Iran still gets a vote 383 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 5: in this fight. 384 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 2: So who is keeping us safe right now? 385 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 5: Rick Wilson, Well, you know, Molly, I don't know about you, 386 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,360 Speaker 5: but if I was looking for a senior national security 387 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 5: official in the Department of Homeland Security, in the counter 388 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 5: terrorism space, which is of course where Iran is extremely 389 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 5: both dangerous and experienced, I would look for a twenty 390 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 5: two year old guy who was deeply inexperienced and had 391 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 5: obviously been like a waiter and a golf caddy or 392 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 5: something like that. That's who I would pick. Oh wait, 393 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,160 Speaker 5: that wasn't who I would pick. That's who Donald Trump picked. 394 00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 5: We are literally dealing with a Doge style twenty somethingter 395 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,160 Speaker 5: dipshit who is in charge of our counter terrorism efforts 396 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,800 Speaker 5: these days because he was picked by Sergio Gore, possible 397 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 5: Russian sleeper agent and Trump head of personnel. 398 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:00,919 Speaker 1: Yes, Sergio Gore has a lot of power in the 399 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 1: Trump administration, a lot, and not for seemingly no reason. 400 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: By the way, I do, I am curious, like I 401 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: wonder what's happening with Elon. 402 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 5: I think Elon has had a very bad week. His 403 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 5: rocket went boom boom again, and so he I think 404 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 5: has had He's having a world of no fun right now. 405 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 5: The ship ten blew up on the stand. It was 406 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,879 Speaker 5: a terrible setback. It's going to set him back a 407 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 5: year or more. From what people are saying. I think 408 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 5: there's a sense in elon world that unless he can 409 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 5: retrain his AI to stop the Wokesters, the world is 410 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 5: collapsing around him a little bit. I don't think Elon's 411 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:46,040 Speaker 5: having a good time right now. 412 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: I just want to go through a list of things 413 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: that Trump promised during the campaign, the twenty twenty four campaign, 414 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: and I just want for two seconds. Grocery prices would decrease. Nope, 415 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 1: working families would get. 416 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 2: A tax kis not happening. 417 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: Entitlements, Medicaid, Medicare, social Security would be protected again. 418 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 5: The opposite is true. 419 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: Balance the budget and pay down the debt, hilarious, and 420 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: end involvement in foreign wars. 421 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 5: Well how's that going? Uh? Look, I often say to 422 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 5: the maga types who who hate listen to my show 423 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 5: and your show. You don't have to like us. But 424 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 5: at some point you have to admit to yourselves you've 425 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 5: been played, that you've been you've been pranked. And I 426 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 5: think there is a is a an unwillingness of course 427 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:46,920 Speaker 5: for them to say, yeah, we've been played. The guy. 428 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 5: The guys, you know, the guys lied to us. He's 429 00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 5: jerked us around, he's lied consistently. But after a while, 430 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 5: you have to admit if the world is burning down 431 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,359 Speaker 5: around you, if everyone is is, you know, face with 432 00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 5: the evidence of the disaster, eventually you have to admit 433 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 5: there's a disaster. And right now for them, this is 434 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 5: this is exactly what they claimed they hated the most, 435 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:21,439 Speaker 5: the liberal international order, the deep state, telling people, you 436 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,639 Speaker 5: know what we're going to do in Iran or in 437 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 5: the Middle East. They have gotten everything backward into Trump's 438 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 5: indifference to them. They don't even They're like, it's like 439 00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 5: he doesn't give a shit about what they think. He's 440 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:40,639 Speaker 5: having fun right now. He's got bb Net and Yahoo going, yeah, boss, 441 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 5: you did it, you did it. Great work. I mean, 442 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,080 Speaker 5: if you saw a net in Yahoo's remarks about Trump yesterday, 443 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 5: I mean it was written by a team of Israeli 444 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 5: psychologists who said, your goal is to is to fellate 445 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 5: Donald Trump mentally so that he obeys everything we wanted 446 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,640 Speaker 5: to do forever, because it it's like the greatest president 447 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 5: of all time has done something no one else could 448 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 5: ever do. I mean madness. It was absolutely bonkers, how 449 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 5: manipulative it was. And you know Trump took the bait. 450 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 5: Of course, Bob said, I'm the best, the very best ever. 451 00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 2: Thank you, Rick Wilson. 452 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:22,200 Speaker 5: You are welcome, my friend as always. 453 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 1: Michael Waldman is President and CEO of the Brennan Center 454 00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: for Justice at NYU School of Law. 455 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 2: Welcome to Bad Politics, Michael. 456 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 5: Great to be with you. 457 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: So I've been on this book tour. My life has 458 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:37,560 Speaker 2: been crazy. 459 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 6: Every time I go anywhere, all anyone asked me is 460 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 6: how are we protecting the midterms? 461 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 7: That's good because everywhere I go people ask about your book. 462 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 7: I read the excerpt in Vanity Fair. It's extraordinary. I 463 00:25:49,560 --> 00:25:50,399 Speaker 7: can't wait to read it. 464 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:51,640 Speaker 2: I can't wait offend you. 465 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:52,360 Speaker 5: So how will we. 466 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 7: Protect the midterms? It's a good question. 467 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 5: Right now. 468 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 7: Of course, we're all seeing and facing this extraordinary effort 469 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 7: to expand presidential power, and there are things Congress can do. 470 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 7: It isn't There are things courts can do some of 471 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 7: them have. We want to make sure those rulings stick, 472 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 7: but ultimately, the voters have to have the last say 473 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,560 Speaker 7: and have to have the loudest voice. And you know, 474 00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 7: the midterm election is coming up very soon, and in 475 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 7: the last few years there've been really encouraging results where 476 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 7: groups like the Brandan Center, voting rights groups, law enforcement 477 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 7: others have worked with election officials and states to sort 478 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 7: of harden the system. The difference this time is, yeah, 479 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:38,040 Speaker 7: we're going to still have disinformation, We're still going to 480 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 7: have threats of violence. People know how to handle that. 481 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,479 Speaker 7: But now we've got the federal government and the hands 482 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 7: of election deniers being weaponized to try to affect and 483 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 7: undermine the elections. So that's what we're really focused on, 484 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 7: is this kind of new threat. I mean, I'll give 485 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,800 Speaker 7: you two things I think you know about. There's legislation 486 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:01,199 Speaker 7: in Congress called the Save Act, which would require you 487 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 7: to produce a passport or a birth certificate to register 488 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 7: a vote in the United States. And that's just something 489 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 7: tens of millions of people don't have ready access to. 490 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,159 Speaker 7: You know, only half of all people have a passport. 491 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 7: And then there's old women who've changed their names because 492 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 7: they got married different from the birth certificate, all those 493 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:19,399 Speaker 7: kinds of things. 494 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 5: We think we have the votes. 495 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 7: We think there are even though it's past the House, 496 00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:25,240 Speaker 7: we think there are the votes to block it in 497 00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 7: the Senate. So Trump then said, oh, you know, I'll 498 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 7: just do this by executive order. He basically purported to 499 00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:34,239 Speaker 7: take over the election system of the United States on 500 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 7: his own. In addition to that stuff from the bill, 501 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 7: it says things like states have to give their data 502 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 7: over their voter rolls over to DOGE. 503 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 2: That's wild, what could go wrong? 504 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,639 Speaker 7: So we and Elders went to court. We sued, and 505 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 7: the court did a preliminary injunction blocking the worst parts 506 00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 7: of that. So that's one power grab. That's one way 507 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 7: in which they're kind of grab for outlandish executive power 508 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 7: and the election kind of together. The other big thing 509 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 7: that's new with the federal government is they've fired only 510 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,400 Speaker 7: people who were working on election security, and so we 511 00:28:09,520 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 7: need to we and others. It's kind of like the 512 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 7: Soviet nuclear scientists. You need to find a place for 513 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 7: these people, and so they can a lot of these 514 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:22,120 Speaker 7: people want to do the work of protecting elections that 515 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,879 Speaker 7: they were doing in the federal government, but they can 516 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 7: do it outside the federal government. So it's sort of 517 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 7: we and others are kind of amassing an operation with 518 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,600 Speaker 7: these folks, but it comes day after day. I read 519 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 7: today that they made a point a special prosecutor will 520 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 7: look at the twenty twenty election to try to prove again, Yeah, 521 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 7: nearly one. He's pretty focused on all that stuff. So 522 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 7: it's going to be harry between now an election day. 523 00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 2: Do you think we're going to have free and fair elections? 524 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 7: So I would say I think we will have secure elections. 525 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 7: I think we will can have smooth elections. I think 526 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 7: we can have fair elections. But it's going to take 527 00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 7: a really big fight to make it happen. To push 528 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 7: back against this new factor. And when we talk about 529 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 7: free elections, my colleagues always remind me that, you know, 530 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 7: there's a lot of ways in which they're already built 531 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 7: in discriminatory, racially discriminatory things, and other things. So we 532 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 7: shouldn't overly sugarcoat, you know, the elections. But I think 533 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 7: we can have free and fair elections. The idea that 534 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,080 Speaker 7: oh Trump's just going to cancel the elections, he can't. 535 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 2: Now he can't. He can't, and they won't let him 536 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: do that. 537 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:24,800 Speaker 5: No, No, But the. 538 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 7: One thing that people do worry about is David Frumm 539 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,160 Speaker 7: has written this in the Atlantic, you know, who's the 540 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,000 Speaker 7: conservative author who's very crupple of Trump, that the stuff 541 00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:37,640 Speaker 7: Trump did with the troops in Los Angeles could be 542 00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,040 Speaker 7: a sort of dress rehearsal for saying, Oh, you know, 543 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 7: I see problems in the blue states around elections, and 544 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,719 Speaker 7: I'm going to send the troops in there. And and 545 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 7: he said in the last week, Oh, we're not going 546 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 7: to enforce the immigration laws with our masked men going 547 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 7: in to hotels or restaurants, but we're going to do 548 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 7: blue cities where the voters are illegal immigrants. 549 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:01,080 Speaker 2: Right, So you could see of thinking there. 550 00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 7: I mean, you know, the troops going to the polling 551 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 7: places is something the state of local officials and law 552 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 7: enforcement and everything have to be really strong about. 553 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 1: So much of this is illegal what he wants to do, 554 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: I mean, from. 555 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,000 Speaker 6: The executive orders down, it's just a. 556 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: Question of whether you have the right people who can 557 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: push back on it, right, right. 558 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 7: I mean, in some cases it's the courts, and you know, 559 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 7: there've been like something like one hundred and fifty rulings 560 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 7: on the executive power questions by trial courts that have 561 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 7: ruled against Trump. But now those cases are in the 562 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 7: appeals courts and then up to the Supreme Court, and 563 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 7: as we all know, those tend to be more political, 564 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 7: more ideological. 565 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,600 Speaker 2: You're thinking about like the Ninth Circuit, right, right? 566 00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 6: Will you explain the story with the Ninth Circuit, because 567 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 6: I don't think our listeners totally understand it. 568 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 7: Absolutely. It's interesting too because for lawyers for a long time, 569 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 7: the Ninth Circuit was this kind of mythically liberal court. 570 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,000 Speaker 7: It's a kind of a reminder of what the real 571 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 7: real deal is now in the federal court. So Trump said, oh, 572 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 7: there's disruption, there's people burning Waymos or whatever, and so 573 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 7: I'm sending in I'm federalizing the National Guard as well 574 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,240 Speaker 7: as also sending in the Marines to as his Homeland 575 00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 7: Security Secretary Christinom said, to liberate Los Angeles from its 576 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 7: political leadership. And people could say, well, wait a minute, 577 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 7: how can the president do that with the National Guard. Well, 578 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 7: actually the president can federalize the National Guard. It's very rare. 579 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,240 Speaker 7: I mean, basically, the last time that a president sent 580 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 7: the National Guard into a state, took over the state 581 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 7: military force under his command without the permission of the governor, 582 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 7: without the governor requesting it of the state was in 583 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 7: nineteen sixty five around Selma, right, they wouldn't protect John 584 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 7: Lewis and doctor King on the march from Selma to Montgomery. 585 00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 7: Although it's really interesting I've been looking into Linda Johnson 586 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 7: was so manipulated and George Wallace, the segregationist governor, was 587 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,600 Speaker 7: such a skunk that, like, it's a little hard to 588 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 7: tell whether Wallace asked for it or not. And apparently 589 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 7: Johnson went on TV announced that he'd asked for it, 590 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 7: but he was lying. So anyway, it's since nineteen sixty five. 591 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 7: Gavin Newsom government. Newsom said, this is terrible. It's going 592 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 7: to inflame things. We have things, he said. Mayor Bass said, 593 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 7: we have this under control. The LAPD no squishes said 594 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,800 Speaker 7: we have this under control. Trump said, no, I've got 595 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,880 Speaker 7: the power to do it. Newsom sued, and a trial 596 00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,600 Speaker 7: court judge Judge Bryer, who is the brother of Stephen Brier, 597 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 7: the former Supreme Court Justice. Judge Bryer ruled no, the 598 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 7: law that Trump used does in fact require governors to agree. 599 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 7: Newsom said, I'm going to take command at noon tomorrow. 600 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 7: Then the appeals court ruled, and you know, with a 601 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 7: trial court it's a single judge, and then it goes 602 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 7: to a panel of appeals judges, and the appeals court ruled, actually, 603 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 7: Trump does have the power to do this. 604 00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 6: And that's because it was the Ninth circ right, which 605 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:02,560 Speaker 6: are the very conservative A short. 606 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:09,520 Speaker 7: Cut, it's not so conservative, it's actually not. No, it's California, 607 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 7: you know, kind of in the past that used to 608 00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:13,880 Speaker 7: be viewed as kind of the hippie dippy circuit. What 609 00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 7: was the thinking, Well, the thinking was, look, the law 610 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 7: gives presidents a lot of power here, and we judges 611 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 7: have the power to make rulings on this. Trumpet said, 612 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,800 Speaker 7: the courts can't even make a ruling. But they said, oh, 613 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 7: you know, the law gives the president this power. And 614 00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,640 Speaker 7: it was discouraging but not entirely surprising, because one of 615 00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 7: the things we're facing is that the laws around presidents 616 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,520 Speaker 7: taking over domestic military, around the use of emergency powers, 617 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 7: the Insurrection Act, all these other very scary tools in 618 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,680 Speaker 7: a present's toolbox, the laws are very weak, often in 619 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 7: terms of constraining the present, and it's just self restraint 620 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:58,560 Speaker 7: in the past that has kept Presence from abusing it. 621 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 7: When we come out of this, we need a moment 622 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:06,240 Speaker 7: of massive reform, massive response, massive construction. And part of 623 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 7: the answer is to fix those laws so this doesn't 624 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:09,440 Speaker 7: happen again. 625 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, I definitely think this sort of anti 626 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 6: corruption post Nixstonian, But boss, don't you think? 627 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:19,840 Speaker 5: Well? 628 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 7: And those laws, there was a huge wave of laws. 629 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 7: It wasn't just the campaign finance laws. It was the 630 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,439 Speaker 7: creation of special prosecutors. It was Freedom of Information Act, 631 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 7: it was the Anti Impoundment Act, which is the thing 632 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 7: they're going to be hearing cases on this year of 633 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 7: Presidence cancers refused to spend money. Was a whole array 634 00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 7: of legal protections against an out of control president that 635 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,080 Speaker 7: were put in place after Nixon and Johnson too, in 636 00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 7: the seventies. For us right now, it's well, what are 637 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:52,120 Speaker 7: the problems we're seeing today, not in the seventies. How 638 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 7: do you deal with the world's wealthiest man paying for 639 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 7: the campaign of the winning presidential candidate, moving into the 640 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 7: way all the contracts for himself, but also being given 641 00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:05,439 Speaker 7: power to gut all the agencies. That's never happened before. 642 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 7: What's a lot to stop that? You know, the Insurrection Act. Interestingly, 643 00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:11,880 Speaker 7: and this is where you will hear me say something 644 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,280 Speaker 7: you won't hear much on this podcast. 645 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 4: I'm betting. 646 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 7: Let me say something nice about Mike Lee. 647 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: Wow. 648 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, you'll remember Mike Lee. 649 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: He recently was in the news for some really really 650 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: bad tweets. 651 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,760 Speaker 7: Unbelievable. You know, much of the time he's a principal 652 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,960 Speaker 7: conservative libertarian, and then on Twitter he does these awful things. 653 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:36,920 Speaker 7: And he made fun of the shootings in Minnesota and 654 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,960 Speaker 7: said they were Marxists who did it and wouldn't apologize. 655 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,200 Speaker 7: It's like he's one of these people who are two 656 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 7: different people, you know, when they are at social media 657 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:46,680 Speaker 7: and they think they have to act out. But he's 658 00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 7: really in political trouble at home because of it, because 659 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 7: it was so ugly. Anyway, Mike Lee, Rand Paul, a 660 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 7: number of these libertarian conservatives have worked with liberals over 661 00:35:57,200 --> 00:36:00,200 Speaker 7: the years on trying to rein in these presidential powers. 662 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,760 Speaker 7: So you know, we all came fairly close to making 663 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:09,320 Speaker 7: greater restrictions on emergency powers, restrictions on how the Insurrection 664 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 7: Act could be used, which has not been used. Yet 665 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 7: that gives presence like practically nearly the ability to. 666 00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:16,839 Speaker 4: Declare martial law. 667 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 7: Not fully things are so scrambled the tariffs. In all 668 00:36:20,640 --> 00:36:24,399 Speaker 7: the excitement about the tariffs and their impact economically, can 669 00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,120 Speaker 7: be really easy to not say, hey, wait a minute, 670 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:29,759 Speaker 7: does the president have the power to do this? The 671 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 7: answer is no, that they don't anymore than they can 672 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,239 Speaker 7: set the income tax rate. Trump just declared an emergency 673 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 7: and set an economic emergency and said he could do it. 674 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,360 Speaker 7: So there was Among the lawsuits that were filed to 675 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:45,320 Speaker 7: block this, one of the most important ones was filed 676 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 7: by a right wing group called the New Civil Liberties Alliance, 677 00:36:48,880 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 7: backed according to the media by the Koch Brothers and 678 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,960 Speaker 7: our friend Leonard Leo and we at the Brent Center 679 00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 7: filed a brief in their. 680 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 2: Ring of Liberals Everywhere. 681 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 7: A new name for my holiday card lit. We filed 682 00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 7: a brief in their case. We thought it was a 683 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,160 Speaker 7: really strong case and also that it was really valuable 684 00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,080 Speaker 7: when it kind of left and right and center can 685 00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 7: speak out unambiguously on this constitutional question that's going to 686 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,479 Speaker 7: be one of the big cases of the Supreme Court 687 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:15,480 Speaker 7: is going to have no choice but to decide. 688 00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 2: I think when is that coming up to the court. 689 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,120 Speaker 7: So not in that case, but in a different case 690 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 7: also challenging these tariffs, the Court of International Trade, which 691 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:27,800 Speaker 7: is not hugely known court. 692 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 6: Yes, please talk about the Court of International Trade, because 693 00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:32,239 Speaker 6: I have read about this. 694 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,280 Speaker 2: It's an amazing bit of sorcery. 695 00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,480 Speaker 7: Well you've just exhausted the entirety of my knowledge. But 696 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 7: it's in Lower Manhattan. It deals with tariffs, and the 697 00:37:40,680 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 7: Trump administration wanted these tariff cases to go to that 698 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 7: court because they figured, oh, they'll they won't make some 699 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,239 Speaker 7: big ruling. And instead the Court of International Trade unanimously, 700 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,560 Speaker 7: one judge appointed by Obama, one judge appointed by Ragging, 701 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,040 Speaker 7: one judge appointed by Trump, said presidents don't have the 702 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 7: power to do this. And another trial court in Washington, 703 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:01,560 Speaker 7: d C. 704 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 4: Did the same thing. 705 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 5: So this one's interesting. So. 706 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 7: Michael McConnell is a well known conservative law professor. He 707 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 7: was a federal judge. He wrote in The Times New 708 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,040 Speaker 7: York Times that this was going to be the most 709 00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,000 Speaker 7: important case on presidential power since the nineteen fifties. He 710 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 7: felt there was no way they were going to the 711 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:21,600 Speaker 7: Supreme Court would get away with ducking it, you know, 712 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 7: they're trying to kind of like not make it back. 713 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 7: I have to deal with that, and of course the 714 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 7: impact is huge because we're negotiating supposedly trade deals with 715 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 7: all these countries. There's tremendous economic uncertainty. This is one 716 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 7: again where there's this sort of a scrambling of the 717 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,400 Speaker 7: ideological you know, alignments to Wall Street Journal strongly supports 718 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,440 Speaker 7: these lawsuits. Trump has decided, as he put it, that 719 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 7: Leonard Leo is a quote sleezebag who hates America or 720 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,640 Speaker 7: probably hates America who helped him so much. 721 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:54,480 Speaker 2: The irony here is pretty amazing. 722 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,000 Speaker 7: You know, look in twenty twenty, when Trump was trying 723 00:38:58,040 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 7: to lie and claim that he'd really want on the 724 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,759 Speaker 7: election and all those courts ruled against him. The number 725 00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,000 Speaker 7: of the judges who ruled against him were very conservative 726 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,719 Speaker 7: judges from the Federal society deep bench, and they were 727 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 7: very conservative, but they weren't bailing Trump personally out. And 728 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:17,440 Speaker 7: it now looks like he wants judges who will focus 729 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,400 Speaker 7: on that. I mean, he's nominated this guy, Emil Bouvay, who's. 730 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:25,360 Speaker 6: His personal well, he's nominated Emil bouv to be on 731 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:26,279 Speaker 6: this to be. 732 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 2: A court, be a judge, an appeals court judge. 733 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 7: Wow, he's running helping run the Justice Department. Part of 734 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:34,799 Speaker 7: me thinks like, well, ye know, maybe he'll do let's 735 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 7: damage on the court. But you know, I mean it's 736 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,600 Speaker 7: a political loyalty rather than a ideological fealty to conservative 737 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 7: political you know, legal about originalism or whatever. So the 738 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,560 Speaker 7: courts are part of this fight. But I think it's 739 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,520 Speaker 7: so important that we not like Congress off of the 740 00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,279 Speaker 7: hook and we not forget that ultimately voters have to 741 00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:56,279 Speaker 7: do this. I mean, the judges are not going to 742 00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:58,120 Speaker 7: save us. They're really not. I mean, they're going to 743 00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 7: play a role. 744 00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,360 Speaker 6: Isn't this the I mean we be of Congress, like 745 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 6: how we bear with Congress refusing to exert their power. 746 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,680 Speaker 6: They have power when it comes to pay outs, and 747 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:15,280 Speaker 6: also they have power when it comes. 748 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,400 Speaker 2: To the money stuff. 749 00:40:16,480 --> 00:40:19,200 Speaker 6: You know that money is allocated by that. I mean, 750 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,440 Speaker 6: they have oversight powers they're not using. 751 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, very much so. And as a broad mighter, this 752 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 7: isn't this kind of congressional abdication didn't start yesterday. One 753 00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:33,359 Speaker 7: of the reasons that the Supreme Court has itself kind 754 00:40:33,360 --> 00:40:35,480 Speaker 7: of grabbed a lot of power and then now the 755 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 7: presidency is also grabbing a lot of power. Is that Congress, 756 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 7: which is supposed to have most of the power in 757 00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,359 Speaker 7: our system, is paralyzed, can't act or won't act. And 758 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 7: the whole notion of checks and balances in the Constitution 759 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,680 Speaker 7: is supposed to be based on the idea that there 760 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 7: is institutional and even personal self interest. The members of 761 00:40:57,520 --> 00:40:59,719 Speaker 7: Congress would want to stand up for their power the 762 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 7: present and it's going to want to stand up for 763 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 7: their power, and that they'll battle it out because they're 764 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 7: sort of set up as competing forces. And what's happened, 765 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,360 Speaker 7: you know, in recent decades, in part, is that the 766 00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 7: political parties have become more and more important. When people say, oh, 767 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 7: we have such weak parties in the United States, that's 768 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 7: true in a lot of ways. But in Congress, when 769 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,120 Speaker 7: you're a person is in the White House, people don't 770 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 7: stand up to them by and large anymore. And you 771 00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 7: would think that these freezes in spending, these cuts and 772 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 7: spending which affect universities in red states, which affect you know, 773 00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 7: veterans programs all over the country, you would think these 774 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,400 Speaker 7: members of Congress would would find a way to stand 775 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,600 Speaker 7: up without breaking with Trump the leader of their own party. 776 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:48,520 Speaker 7: But sooner or later these Republicans maybe won't happen until 777 00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:51,759 Speaker 7: they lose control one or both of the houses. But 778 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,120 Speaker 7: they're only you know, they've only got one or two 779 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 7: vote majority in the House of Representatives. You would think 780 00:41:57,000 --> 00:41:59,399 Speaker 7: that some of that would happen. The one place we've 781 00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,480 Speaker 7: seen this play out now for the first time, where 782 00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:05,480 Speaker 7: it really is actually shaking things up, is on the 783 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,400 Speaker 7: potential attack by the United States on Iran. Again, presidents 784 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:12,560 Speaker 7: have a lot of power when it comes to war 785 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 7: and national defense, and presidence of both parties have wanted 786 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 7: to use it all without Congress getting involved. But there 787 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,520 Speaker 7: are laws there too that say, in addition to the Constitution, 788 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 7: that say that Congress has to pass up resolution, the 789 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,440 Speaker 7: War Powers Resolution. Remember George H. W. Bush went to Congress. 790 00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,839 Speaker 7: George W. Bush went to Congress. Obama did not go 791 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,760 Speaker 7: to Congress when he started bombing. It's not one party 792 00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,640 Speaker 7: or another. If we're going to get involved in this 793 00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,160 Speaker 7: war and start bombing Iran, which is a big country 794 00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,359 Speaker 7: with the ability to retaliate, you would think that would 795 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,239 Speaker 7: be something Congress should at the very least be asked 796 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,759 Speaker 7: to approve in advance. And it very well might, you know, 797 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 7: and you're seeing a lot of fights among the Republicans 798 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,640 Speaker 7: and a lot of squishings and ducking under the table 799 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:57,640 Speaker 7: among the Democrats. 800 00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 2: On that, Michael, thank you so much for coming on. 801 00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,160 Speaker 6: I really needed to sort of chop this through without 802 00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,680 Speaker 6: can really appreciate it. 803 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 7: Yeah, the answer to your very first question, we can 804 00:43:08,680 --> 00:43:12,040 Speaker 7: have free and fair and secure elections in twenty twenty six. 805 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:14,319 Speaker 7: It's going to take more of a fight than it 806 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,000 Speaker 7: usually does, and that's the fight we've all got to wage. 807 00:43:17,239 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, such a good point. Thank you, Michael Walson. 808 00:43:20,680 --> 00:43:21,080 Speaker 5: Thank you. 809 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:28,279 Speaker 2: No moment, Rick Wilson. 810 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,840 Speaker 5: Wellie Jong fast is it that time? 811 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:36,960 Speaker 2: It's that time? Tell us what is your moment of fuckery? 812 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 5: You know, I think my moment of fuckery is the 813 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:45,719 Speaker 5: fact that Donald Trump refused to brief Congress on these strikes. 814 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,920 Speaker 5: Oh I'm sorry, wait, let me rephrase that. He didn't 815 00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:51,480 Speaker 5: refuse to brief Congress. He just refused to brief anyone 816 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 5: in the in Congress from the Democratic Party. This is not, 817 00:43:54,920 --> 00:43:57,840 Speaker 5: as the kids say, how it's done, how any of 818 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:02,000 Speaker 5: this works. He went and brief the Republicans, not the Democrats. Look, 819 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,879 Speaker 5: if we're going to have a constitutional order of any 820 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:07,000 Speaker 5: kind and you want to go to war, Okay, get 821 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,560 Speaker 5: an authorization because he went to war with a very 822 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:14,560 Speaker 5: partisan mix of telling the Republicans not the Democrats here. 823 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,320 Speaker 5: I mean, when this thing goes sideways. I don't know 824 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,640 Speaker 5: if you've heard about this, but war is in the 825 00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,680 Speaker 5: Middle East occasionally go sideways. Yeah, when it goes sideways, 826 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,000 Speaker 5: he's going to say, oh no, everyone supported me. Oh no, 827 00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:31,400 Speaker 5: you never called us motherfucker. Yeah, So that's my moment, fucker. 828 00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,840 Speaker 2: Rick Wilson, thank you. 829 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:36,080 Speaker 5: As always, my friend. I'll see you next time. 830 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in 831 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:46,920 Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best 832 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,319 Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If 833 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,400 Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend 834 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:56,480 Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. 835 00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:58,080 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.