WEBVTT - Conservatorships: #freebritney 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.280 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:13.720 Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:00:13.840 --> 0:00:18.160 There's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer who's 0:00:18.160 --> 0:00:24.320 actually a real producer too, Dave Kustin. So guest producer 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:29.800 in your mind means ghost producer. And no, I don't 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:32.000 think he's dead, are you dead, Dave? Well, not a 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:35.600 real producer? What's going on here? So he is the 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.760 producer of short Stuff, which is technically a spinoff of 0:00:38.760 --> 0:00:41.400 Stuff you Should Know. But he's here sitting in for 0:00:41.560 --> 0:00:43.519 Jerry on Stuff you Should Know, which would make him 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:48.440 a guest in this particular context. But enough about that. 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:51.279 I was just saying all that to welcome everybody. Now 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:56.640 it's ruined forever. Sorry, Instead, Chuck, I think that we 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.720 should talk about conservatorships. And before you saying thing, Oh no, no, 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.040 what are you saying? Inhale? Yeah, I understand. I think 0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:08.160 everybody who didn't realize what episode they were listening to 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:13.679 just Inhaled too. Um. I searched high and low for 0:01:13.760 --> 0:01:16.800 something to relate this too. In the real world. It 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.600 could find like nothing. So this is probably gonna be 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:25.120 a fairly boring, dry episode on you know, legalities and 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.880 the legal system, with no no application to to real 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:32.680 life and certainly no application to pop culture whatsoever. So 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:36.479 buckle up, everybody, I guess what I'm trying to say. Oops, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:40.000 you did it again. Oh I happened to be wearing 0:01:40.040 --> 0:01:44.080 a Catholic schoolgirls skirt right now too. Uh. Yeah, so 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:48.560 this obviously came to me because of the Britney Spear situation. Uh. 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:52.280 I don't know a lot about Britney Spears and didn't 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:55.360 know a lot about her situation other than loosely hearing 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:59.400 about it in the news. But the more I poked around, uh, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:03.240 the more I was like, man, this really this really 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.760 smacks of sort of the old days, you know, like 0:02:07.040 --> 0:02:09.480 your honor, my wife or my daughter is crazy and 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.040 we need to do something about this. And uh, I 0:02:13.120 --> 0:02:15.400 use that terminology because that's that's kind of how it 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:18.000 used to go back in the day. And sadly that 0:02:18.080 --> 0:02:22.400 kind of stuff still happens through things like conservatorships. And 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:25.679 so it turns out that it's a pretty straightforward thing. 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:30.720 But in her case, the waters are pretty muddy. Yeah. Well, 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:33.120 she's a really rare case. The only other person I 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.040 can think of that even comes close to fitting the 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:38.880 bill for this very rare type of conservatorship that Britney 0:02:38.919 --> 0:02:41.760 Spears has is a Manda Binds, who is another child 0:02:41.880 --> 0:02:45.720 star who kind of publicly melted down. I guess you 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.639 could put in whose mother got her into conservatorship, which 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:52.200 I think she's still under today. Um, and Bristles under 0:02:52.240 --> 0:02:55.720 it publicly too. So UM. Most of the time, when 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:59.720 you're talking about conservatorships, which is basically one person legally 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.320 have think the ability and authority to make this decisions 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.919 on behalf of somebody else. You're talking about somebody who 0:03:06.960 --> 0:03:10.840 has gone into a coma, UM, somebody who has had 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:18.840 um uh cognitive um difficulties maybe for life. UM, somebody 0:03:19.200 --> 0:03:23.080 just suffering from Alzheimer's something like that. Much much more 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.520 more often than not, it's it's something that's part of 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:30.239 elder law. A conservatorship is. So it's really we it's rare, weird, 0:03:30.400 --> 0:03:32.720 you can just say weird. It's very weird that Britney 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:38.560 Spears very healthy, um with it active. UM Like, I 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:43.480 think she's like thirty somethings early thirties right now, Um, No, 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.320 late thirtis. I think she's thirty nine. Um, she that 0:03:47.320 --> 0:03:49.440 that she would be in a conservatorship, but she has, 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.400 she has been since she was twenty six and and 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:54.440 it may maybe she's coming out of it. No one 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:56.760 can say for sure. That it's kind of looked like, well, 0:03:56.840 --> 0:03:58.280 of course they're going to let her out of it 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.640 multiple times in the past, but it seems like from 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.400 what I understand now, she might actually finally get out 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:09.400 from the conservative ship at this point. Who knows. Yeah, so, um, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.280 just a little quick background if you didn't know, uh, 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:13.640 and not to get too in the weeds. But in 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:18.279 two thousand and eight, Britney Spears had uh what people 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:20.880 have described online as a kind of a public melting 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:26.240 down her. Her family was worried about her, She was 0:04:26.279 --> 0:04:30.400 hospitalized for mental health issues a couple of times. She 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:33.839 famously shaved her head and was very aggressive with the paparazzi. 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.440 And you know, it's very easy for some people, I 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:40.200 guess in her family, to say, hey, she has some 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.000 mental issues, she needs some help, Um, let me step 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:46.200 in and establish a conservatorship. But it's also easy as 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.279 an outsider to look back now and say, hey, she 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:53.760 went through some stuff. The paparazzi is awful and terrible 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.520 and what might you do in that situation? And maybe 0:04:57.520 --> 0:04:59.760 she just needed a little assistance to get through a 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.080 recular time in her life. And here we are in one, 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.800 all these years later, and she still has her father 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:10.320 basically in charge of the decisions of her life financially 0:05:10.360 --> 0:05:14.159 and with her health and uh and in certain cases 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.400 or career, and she's she's trying to get him out 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:20.279 of there first and foremost as her conservator, and also 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.240 trying to get the conservator ship itself dissolved. Yeah, because 0:05:24.279 --> 0:05:25.839 I think one of the things that makes her case 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:30.080 so gut wrenching is that basically her worst enemy, her father, 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.320 was put in charge of her life against her will, 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.400 and she's lived like that for thirteen years. Um. So well, 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:40.080 I mean, we'll like, we'll talk about how her case applies, 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.440 you know, um, throughout the episode for sure, but just 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:46.840 to kind of like lay down the groundwork for what 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.719 a conservatorship is, um. There Apparently there's not one set 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:54.880 legal definition like you could very easily just basically say 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:59.039 it's where somebody's legally in charge of somebody else's decisions. Um. 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:04.080 Some states call guardianship, other states call it conservator ship. UM. 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:06.960 But the whole point of it is that somebody has 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:12.240 been deemed unable to make good decisions for themselves to 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:16.360 some sometimes physically take care of themselves or maybe even both, 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.320 and so the court um has been petitioned to kind 0:06:20.320 --> 0:06:23.720 of give someone else the ability to make those decisions 0:06:23.760 --> 0:06:26.560 to take care of that person. And the point of it, 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:28.480 if you really, if you take away the whole Britney 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.800 Spears thing and any kind of um sketchiness that can 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.880 kind of pervade this whole kind of this, this this 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:38.960 legal weirdness. UM, it's kind of an act of love 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:41.679 to step in and say, this person is in really 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:46.240 bad dire straits right now, and um, I will help 0:06:46.279 --> 0:06:49.040 them while they're going through this or possibly for the 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:51.240 rest of their lives. I'm willing to take care of 0:06:51.279 --> 0:06:53.400 their needs and see to it that they're taken care of. 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.880 That's what it's supposed to be about at base sure, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:07:00.359 and ideally that's how it goes down. UM. There is 0:07:00.440 --> 0:07:03.559 not a lot of data about conservatorships and how often 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:10.960 they are petitioned to get uh UM uninstated. I think 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:14.920 it's removed like uninstated. I like it too. It's a great, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:17.800 great word. Now Okay, I just made up a new Wordever, 0:07:17.800 --> 0:07:20.360 you could win boggle with that. Chuck uh. And we'll 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.360 get to the you know why that is a little 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:25.840 bit later. But Um, when you petition a court, what 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:29.720 happens is there's an evaluation that the court orders of 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:33.360 this person who is known as a conservative, and the 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:38.440 person in charges the conservatore, and there's an attorney appointed 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:42.160 to represent them, and they hold a hearing and they 0:07:42.200 --> 0:07:44.680 decide whether or not this is something that they should 0:07:44.680 --> 0:07:48.200 move forward with. There's an evaluation done. Um, the person 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.280 is allowed to speak on their behalf at this time. Um, 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:53.720 it's not the kind of thing where you can, uh 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:58.440 just be railroaded. And I'm not exactly sure the details 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.560 of Britney Spears and when it first happened as far 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.440 as if she was like, yeah, this is for the 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.520 best right now, or if she thought him in the beginning, 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:09.160 but I think she was. Um, you're saying no, no 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.760 to which one to to the first that or that 0:08:11.840 --> 0:08:13.720 she was she was in favor of I'll tell you 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.240 a second, all right, we'll goad you want me to 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:19.080 tell you now we have to wait a second. Any longer. Okay, 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.720 I'll fill you and Chuck get that. I watched some 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:23.320 of the documentary, but I had other things to do. 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.120 I saw the documentary two was surprisingly ho hum and 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:29.840 totally one sided. I thought it was really kind of 0:08:29.880 --> 0:08:32.800 gross in a lot of ways, but interesting for sure. UM. 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:34.400 But I also read a I read a really good 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.719 New Yorker um article, a recent one from July three, 0:08:37.800 --> 0:08:42.080 I think called Britney Spears Conservative Conservatorship Nightmare by Ronan 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.679 Pharaoh and Jia Tolentino to reporters, and it is just 0:08:46.880 --> 0:08:50.640 a moment by moment breakdown on well Brittney's breakdown, and 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.600 then also like how she ended up in it, And 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.640 from this and other sources, I saw that basically she 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:01.120 was not informed um that she was being placed into 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:04.800 conservatorship beforehand, which from what I can tell, is a 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:08.720 gross violation of her rights in that sense, and that 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:11.320 she didn't have a chance to petition the court to 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:13.720 basically say no. And then by the time she found 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.400 out about it and tried to petition it, she was 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:19.560 told that she was not in any kind of mental 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.480 state to hire her own counsel, and so she had 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:25.720 counsel appointed to her so she never had an evaluation 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:29.119 from so the judge in this case is now retired. 0:09:29.600 --> 0:09:31.720 And she said that that is not true. Of course 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:33.760 she was evaluated, and I talked to her and all 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.320 that stuff. But the way that this is described as 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:39.760 it was a ten minute thing, and it was they 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:42.240 went in and and as far like on the surface, 0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:45.480 the her parents went in and petitioned the judge in 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:49.080 ten minutes later, the judge granted full I guess temporary 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:53.640 conservatorship um without any any other formalities. That's how it 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.480 That's how it is, you know, on its face. And 0:09:56.520 --> 0:09:59.280 then the judges denying that there was any back room 0:09:59.480 --> 0:10:02.520 um eels or anything made beforehand. So it doesn't really 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:04.320 make sense and it kind of stinks to high heaven 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.160 in that respect. Yeah, what did she think was going on? Then? 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:13.880 Who Brittany? When she was evaluated? That's the thing. I 0:10:13.920 --> 0:10:16.280 don't know that she was evaluated. She had just undergone 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:22.240 two fifties, where the the basically the states van Halens too, 0:10:22.800 --> 0:10:24.920 not just one too, she had a fifty one fifty 0:10:24.960 --> 0:10:28.120 and an o U eight one too. Oh man, she 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.480 um she no. So the fifties where somebody can basically 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.080 say this person is is um is mentally unstable right now, 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.240 they may be a harm to themselves or others, And 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:39.640 the fire department comes and gets you and takes you 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:42.360 off to the hospital where you're kept against your will 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:46.320 for seventy two hours. That happened to her twice, and 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:49.360 upon the second one, her parents went and petitioned the 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:53.240 court to to grant them conservatorship, and the court did. 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.360 I don't know anything about an evaluation that actually took 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.559 place as part of the conservatorship. I get the impression that, like, oh, 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:04.199 she said to Fies, that's enough for me. Interesting, by 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:06.800 the way, we can't say that without shouting out, listener, 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:13.280 Aaron Hagar, Oh yeah, that's right to yeah, alright. So 0:11:13.400 --> 0:11:17.640 there are some different types of conservator ships. One is financial, 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.120 and they often work hand in hand and sometimes kind 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:23.360 of have to. Financial obviously is when you are in 0:11:23.400 --> 0:11:30.120 charge of someone's finances. The conservative themselves have autonomy, but 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:34.480 they don't have financial autonomy. Um, they can't, you know, 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:36.360 go out and buy a house or rent a house, 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:39.520 or make any big purchases or maybe even any kind 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.680 of purchases without the conservatory sort of being there along 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.480 the way saying it's fine. Yeah, and I think they 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.240 also have, like they generally have spending money. They're given 0:11:48.240 --> 0:11:52.160 an allowance, um, so they'll have that at least, But yeah, 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.880 for the big purchases, no way, uh. Physical is when 0:11:55.960 --> 0:12:00.559 their health and basically medical decisions, their health, their life 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:05.959 kind of everything is controlled by the conservativetour and I'm 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:08.960 gonna mess it up at some point, um, whether or 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:11.480 not they want to go to a therapist, or whether 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:15.240 or not they wanted to have certain medications. Supposedly they 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:20.120 you know, you can't make someone take medication um legally, 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:22.800 but it again, especially in her case, it gets very 0:12:22.880 --> 0:12:25.839 murky with some of the charges she's levied against her 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:29.840 father as far as that stuff goes, Yeah, and I 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:31.920 mean on that in particular, what I saw was that 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:35.200 the carrot and the stick that her father uses against 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:38.800 her is visitation rights for her to see her kids. 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:41.400 Because that was definitely one thing that came through and 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:43.679 a lot of stuff I've been reading is that like 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.280 she is super dedicated to her kids and they've been 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.000 just kept from her for you know, they're basically their 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.880 whole lives, and that that was ultimately what really led 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.920 to her meltdown. You know, the pop rocks. He didn't 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:57.640 help and you know, it's being a star. All of 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:00.360 that stuff did not help um. But that don't it 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:02.559 was you know, it's her kids that is really like 0:13:02.760 --> 0:13:05.480 the dagger that just gets turned in her chest every time, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.200 like she she had to like leave or they had 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.240 to leave um, and that her father dangles that over her, 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.280 like if you don't do this, if you don't sign 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.200 this contractor and do these performances, you know, I can't 0:13:16.240 --> 0:13:18.880 let you see the kids or whatever. So that's apparently 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.480 that's because he gets a cut. He does. He gets 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:24.720 one point five percent of all new deals too. Yeah, 0:13:24.760 --> 0:13:27.200 and she's made a lot of money in the past, 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.719 you know, years that she's been blocked down. She's had 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.960 a very successful Vegas run. She had a couple of 0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:36.800 big albums. She's been guest judges on a couple of 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.000 the big competition shows. So she's not she's out there 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:45.400 earning a lot of money still for her and Pops. Uh, 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.280 there's general conservator ships and that is when it's it's 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.679 kind of everything and these are more common. It's kind 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:55.480 of rare. It seems like for there to be uh 0:13:55.679 --> 0:14:00.520 only a physical conservatorship without being a financial because those 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.400 things are probably kind of go hand in hand. So 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.560 general is all encompassing, and then you have your limited 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:11.920 conservatorship where it's uh. Usually this is a case where 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:17.319 it may be like, um, let's say an adult that's 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:20.880 disabled in some way that still wants to have and 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:25.360 can have autonomy, physical autonomy, and maybe hold down a 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:28.120 job and have their own apartment, but there's just certain 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:33.720 parts of their life that a conservator will handle, right. So, um, 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:37.080 the everything I saw is that limited is what you're 0:14:37.200 --> 0:14:41.400 ultimately going for. When you're establishing a conservatorship, you want 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:45.359 to you want to minimize the number of restrictions necessary 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.080 to help the person through their life while maximizing their 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:53.760 individual liberties. Yes, so, so when it goes down, Yeah, 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.520 and it's not supposed to be a one size fits 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:58.640 all like boom, this person has all control over them. 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:00.960 It's like how much do you need? How much? How 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.160 much do they need to give up? That's supposed to 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.720 be the goal of a conservatorship hearing Yeah, uh, and 0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:12.040 then you've got Sometimes they're categorized by their length. You 0:15:12.080 --> 0:15:16.640 can have short term, temporary, or permanent. With short term, um, 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.480 usually it's not more than a few months than ninety days, 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:25.000 and it's because of something that happened. It's an immediate need. Um, 0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:27.880 these can sometimes go down without that formal hearing that 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.120 we were talking about because it is short term and 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:33.920 and you know, capped off at a certain point. That 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:39.480 is different than temporary though. Um, temporary can turn into permanent, 0:15:40.240 --> 0:15:43.080 whereas I don't think short term can. Yeah, I think 0:15:43.120 --> 0:15:45.800 temporaries where they're like, Okay, this person may get better 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:48.360 at some point, but we have no idea when. But 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.760 when they do get better, they're gonna want to have 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:53.400 their life back, So let's just make this temporary. Short 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.040 term is where I saw. I saw that it's frequently 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:59.080 used for when somebody is going into like drug rehab 0:15:59.200 --> 0:16:01.320 or something like that and they have like a lot 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:04.760 of plates in the air or a lot of finances. Um. 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.200 Although one of the things that I saw is that 0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:13.160 finances are not supposed to be a reason for conservatorship, right, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.600 It's supposed to be to help. I'm afraid they'll spend 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:18.640 all their money. Yes, that's supposed to not be a 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:24.240 justification for conservatorship. And the problem that I have from 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:28.080 the outside with Britney Spears conservatorship is that it seems 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:33.200 to be predicated on that that it's almost like this poor, 0:16:33.480 --> 0:16:37.200 this poor person, her brand grew bigger than her, and 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:41.240 so to protect the brand from potentially her, you know, 0:16:42.040 --> 0:16:45.280 spending it into the ground or whatever, they placed her 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.320 in conservative conservatorship so that she can't she can't make 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.440 decisions about her own brand, and then that's being kind 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:54.640 of reflected on her own life. So she's being held 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.840 hostage against well and also being forced to perform. It's 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:00.760 one of the most bizarre things I think that's ever 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:03.720 happened in the legal systems, and especially it's nuts that 0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.640 it's been ongoing for so long too and so public. Yeah, 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:10.040 it's a very interesting case. Uh all right, let's take 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.960 a break. Yeah, yeah, alright, no name is Steve's not 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:17.040 saying nay, what if they've just piped in. I was like, no, 0:17:17.200 --> 0:17:22.679 keep going, keep going, I'm the conservative here. We'll be 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:41.399 back right after this. Learning's stop with Joshua John Stop. 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.119 If you want to know then you're in luck. Just 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:59.560 listen up to Chuck Fuson. So, Chuck, there was one 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:03.439 other type of conservatorship by duration that we didn't mention. 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:08.240 That is apparently pretty typical, which is permanent. Oh yeah, 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.400 I mentioned that. I guess I thought it was self explanatory. 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:17.840 It's permanent. Go on, well, it's permanent in spirit. Um. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:21.320 But you can, as we're seeing now, file to have 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:24.679 it removed or I don't even know that word I 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:30.520 coined earlier, unreinstated. I don't even think um, I'm sorry, 0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:37.280 re uninstated, so um noninstated. See the whole point of 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.200 coining new words, you gotta be able to use them 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.040 at the you know, drop of the hat. Yeah, but 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:43.000 I mean you gotta take some practice, you know what 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.920 I'm saying. So the reason permanent, though um is so typical, 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:50.879 and as far as conservatorships goes because most of the 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:54.639 time when you end up in conservatorship, it's because you 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.840 suffered some sort of very debilitating problem or you've had 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.520 it your whole life, like it's just it's it's it's 0:19:01.560 --> 0:19:04.040 a long term issue that you're dealing with. So you're 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.480 this is a long term solution of permanent conservatorship, right, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.760 And that really ties hand in hand with kind of 0:19:11.760 --> 0:19:14.280 the next part about how to get one um. It 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.359 is usually almost always because of some sort of mental 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:23.040 incapacity of some form, whether that's temporary or like you 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.159 said earlier, for a temporary like you know, someone's in 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.320 an accident and there in a coma, but they come 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:30.399 out of the coma in two weeks and then you know, 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:32.359 work their way back to good health again and they 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:38.280 wake up and there like Ricky Lake, we're engaged now, Lake. Wow, 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:41.520 you really pulled that one out of some thank you, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.439 thank you, thank you, thank you. Uh, you know we 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.840 mentioned stuff like dimension Alzheimer's. That is a very very 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.919 common case um for conservator ships. Or if you have, 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:56.160 like you said, from birth, if you have some sort 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:00.480 of um, permanent disability, um, no matter how that came about, 0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:04.000 then that's you know, oftentimes like parents or some other 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:06.199 family member just from the time you're a kid, had 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.560 that conservatorship. Yeah, and and basically there's like a two 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.320 pronged tests to applying a conservatorship. I'm gonna say it 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:15.880 correctly the first time one of these one of these 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:20.200 times in this episode, I can't even say conservatives I can't. 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.240 That's great. Check. Um, so is the person unable to 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:30.480 basically meet their own basic needs like care for themselves, 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.720 feed themselves, that kind of stuff, um, in which case 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:37.280 there would be a conservatorship of the person where you 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:41.119 can make like medical decisions for them, maybe living arrangements, 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:43.000 like decide if they're going to live in a long 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:47.800 term care facility something like that, or and or um. 0:20:47.960 --> 0:20:52.400 Can they make decisions for themselves which are um sound 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.960 financially like can they understand a contract that they're signing. 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.760 Can they understand that if they, you know, buy this house, 0:20:59.040 --> 0:21:01.359 that they have to pay this amount of money or 0:21:01.400 --> 0:21:04.480 something like. And if they can't do either or both 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:07.439 of those things, then a conservatorship might be just the 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:09.919 thing to kind of help them make it through life, 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:14.960 especially again if they have um substantial wealth or if 0:21:15.000 --> 0:21:19.000 they are just totally unable to care for themselves. Yeah, 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.880 and you know the way this goes down ideally and 0:21:22.400 --> 0:21:25.119 I think more typically than what we're seeing in Britney 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:28.760 Spears cases. You know, medical records are presented there, the 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.359 probate or family court is handling this, the conservaty is 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:38.199 either understands and goes along with it because they know 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.320 it's for their own good or um isn't you know, 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:43.600 it is clearly not capable, which is why they need 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.240 the conservatory to to begin with of making these decisions. 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:49.359 And again, it's just super rare for this kind of 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:54.280 case where someone is having something done seemingly against their will, 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:56.159 kind of from the kid go yeah, I mean, like, 0:21:56.240 --> 0:21:58.000 for the most for the most part, if you're in 0:21:58.040 --> 0:22:00.840 a conservatorship, like you might not even be conscious, you 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:04.160 might have no idea that you're under a conservatorship. Um, 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.280 you might not be able to work or hold down 0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:10.040 a job or remember to feed yourself. You're certainly not 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.560 going on world tour and releasing four albums, two of 0:22:13.560 --> 0:22:17.760 which go platinum, and then maintaining a Vegas residency and 0:22:17.840 --> 0:22:21.320 generating a hundred thirty million dollars in income over you know, 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.840 ten thirteen years something like that. It just makes it's 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.399 just so bizarre. It's so bizarre. And I have to say, also, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:30.680 one other thing, I don't want to give the impression 0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:33.520 that I'm just like a like a hashtag free Brittany person. 0:22:33.600 --> 0:22:37.040 Like I understand that those people have um just the 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:39.840 best intentions, and my hat is off to them. But 0:22:39.880 --> 0:22:42.160 I also think it's very very wise to remember, like 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.639 we're seeing all this from the outside, most of the 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.760 court documents involved are sealed and so there's a lot 0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.920 of like t leaf reading and trying to figure out 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:54.600 what's really going on here. And it's it's entirely possible 0:22:54.640 --> 0:22:58.040 that that this conservatorship has kind of helped Brittany. Like 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.920 the people who defend who been involved and defend it, say, 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:04.119 you know, she had a couple of million dollars left 0:23:04.520 --> 0:23:08.159 some of the worst people in the world surrounding her. Um, 0:23:08.200 --> 0:23:10.560 her money was going fast, her brand was starting to go, 0:23:11.000 --> 0:23:14.640 and now she's worth like sixty to eighty million dollars. 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:17.680 She's back on top. She doesn't have a bunch of 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:20.920 scummy people hanging around her UM. And then the scummy 0:23:20.920 --> 0:23:24.000 people are like no, these people came in and wrestled 0:23:24.000 --> 0:23:26.120 control of Brittany's own life and now they're in charge 0:23:26.119 --> 0:23:28.560 of her and they're they're builking her for money. So 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.600 it's it's really impossible to tell who to trust at 0:23:31.600 --> 0:23:33.760