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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's guest producer who's

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Speaker 1: actually a real producer too, Dave Kustin. So guest producer

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Speaker 1: in your mind means ghost producer. And no, I don't

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Speaker 1: think he's dead, are you dead, Dave? Well, not a

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Speaker 1: real producer? What's going on here? So he is the

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Speaker 1: producer of short Stuff, which is technically a spinoff of

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Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know. But he's here sitting in for

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Speaker 1: Jerry on Stuff you Should Know, which would make him

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Speaker 1: a guest in this particular context. But enough about that.

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Speaker 1: I was just saying all that to welcome everybody. Now

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Speaker 1: it's ruined forever. Sorry, Instead, Chuck, I think that we

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Speaker 1: should talk about conservatorships. And before you saying thing, Oh no, no,

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Speaker 1: what are you saying? Inhale? Yeah, I understand. I think

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Speaker 1: everybody who didn't realize what episode they were listening to

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Speaker 1: just Inhaled too. Um. I searched high and low for

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Speaker 1: something to relate this too. In the real world. It

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Speaker 1: could find like nothing. So this is probably gonna be

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Speaker 1: a fairly boring, dry episode on you know, legalities and

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Speaker 1: the legal system, with no no application to to real

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Speaker 1: life and certainly no application to pop culture whatsoever. So

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Speaker 1: buckle up, everybody, I guess what I'm trying to say. Oops,

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Speaker 1: you did it again. Oh I happened to be wearing

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Speaker 1: a Catholic schoolgirls skirt right now too. Uh. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: this obviously came to me because of the Britney Spear situation. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I don't know a lot about Britney Spears and didn't

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Speaker 1: know a lot about her situation other than loosely hearing

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Speaker 1: about it in the news. But the more I poked around, uh,

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Speaker 1: the more I was like, man, this really this really

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Speaker 1: smacks of sort of the old days, you know, like

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Speaker 1: your honor, my wife or my daughter is crazy and

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Speaker 1: we need to do something about this. And uh, I

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Speaker 1: use that terminology because that's that's kind of how it

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Speaker 1: used to go back in the day. And sadly that

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Speaker 1: kind of stuff still happens through things like conservatorships. And

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Speaker 1: so it turns out that it's a pretty straightforward thing.

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Speaker 1: But in her case, the waters are pretty muddy. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: she's a really rare case. The only other person I

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Speaker 1: can think of that even comes close to fitting the

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Speaker 1: bill for this very rare type of conservatorship that Britney

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Speaker 1: Spears has is a Manda Binds, who is another child

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Speaker 1: star who kind of publicly melted down. I guess you

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Speaker 1: could put in whose mother got her into conservatorship, which

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Speaker 1: I think she's still under today. Um, and Bristles under

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Speaker 1: it publicly too. So UM. Most of the time, when

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Speaker 1: you're talking about conservatorships, which is basically one person legally

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Speaker 1: have think the ability and authority to make this decisions

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Speaker 1: on behalf of somebody else. You're talking about somebody who

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Speaker 1: has gone into a coma, UM, somebody who has had

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Speaker 1: um uh cognitive um difficulties maybe for life. UM, somebody

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Speaker 1: just suffering from Alzheimer's something like that. Much much more

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Speaker 1: more often than not, it's it's something that's part of

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Speaker 1: elder law. A conservatorship is. So it's really we it's rare, weird,

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Speaker 1: you can just say weird. It's very weird that Britney

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Speaker 1: Spears very healthy, um with it active. UM Like, I

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Speaker 1: think she's like thirty somethings early thirties right now, Um, No,

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Speaker 1: late thirtis. I think she's thirty nine. Um, she that

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Speaker 1: that she would be in a conservatorship, but she has,

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Speaker 1: she has been since she was twenty six and and

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Speaker 1: it may maybe she's coming out of it. No one

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Speaker 1: can say for sure. That it's kind of looked like, well,

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Speaker 1: of course they're going to let her out of it

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Speaker 1: multiple times in the past, but it seems like from

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Speaker 1: what I understand now, she might actually finally get out

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Speaker 1: from the conservative ship at this point. Who knows. Yeah, so, um,

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Speaker 1: just a little quick background if you didn't know, uh,

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Speaker 1: and not to get too in the weeds. But in

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Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, Britney Spears had uh what people

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Speaker 1: have described online as a kind of a public melting

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Speaker 1: down her. Her family was worried about her, She was

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Speaker 1: hospitalized for mental health issues a couple of times. She

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Speaker 1: famously shaved her head and was very aggressive with the paparazzi.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's very easy for some people, I

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Speaker 1: guess in her family, to say, hey, she has some

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Speaker 1: mental issues, she needs some help, Um, let me step

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Speaker 1: in and establish a conservatorship. But it's also easy as

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Speaker 1: an outsider to look back now and say, hey, she

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Speaker 1: went through some stuff. The paparazzi is awful and terrible

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Speaker 1: and what might you do in that situation? And maybe

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Speaker 1: she just needed a little assistance to get through a

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Speaker 1: recular time in her life. And here we are in one,

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Speaker 1: all these years later, and she still has her father

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Speaker 1: basically in charge of the decisions of her life financially

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Speaker 1: and with her health and uh and in certain cases

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Speaker 1: or career, and she's she's trying to get him out

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Speaker 1: of there first and foremost as her conservator, and also

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Speaker 1: trying to get the conservator ship itself dissolved. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: I think one of the things that makes her case

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Speaker 1: so gut wrenching is that basically her worst enemy, her father,

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Speaker 1: was put in charge of her life against her will,

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Speaker 1: and she's lived like that for thirteen years. Um. So well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we'll like, we'll talk about how her case applies,

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Speaker 1: you know, um, throughout the episode for sure, but just

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Speaker 1: to kind of like lay down the groundwork for what

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Speaker 1: a conservatorship is, um. There Apparently there's not one set

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Speaker 1: legal definition like you could very easily just basically say

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Speaker 1: it's where somebody's legally in charge of somebody else's decisions. Um.

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Speaker 1: Some states call guardianship, other states call it conservator ship. UM.

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Speaker 1: But the whole point of it is that somebody has

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Speaker 1: been deemed unable to make good decisions for themselves to

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Speaker 1: some sometimes physically take care of themselves or maybe even both,

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Speaker 1: and so the court um has been petitioned to kind

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Speaker 1: of give someone else the ability to make those decisions

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Speaker 1: to take care of that person. And the point of it,

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Speaker 1: if you really, if you take away the whole Britney

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Speaker 1: Spears thing and any kind of um sketchiness that can

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Speaker 1: kind of pervade this whole kind of this, this this

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Speaker 1: legal weirdness. UM, it's kind of an act of love

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Speaker 1: to step in and say, this person is in really

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Speaker 1: bad dire straits right now, and um, I will help

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Speaker 1: them while they're going through this or possibly for the

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Speaker 1: rest of their lives. I'm willing to take care of

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Speaker 1: their needs and see to it that they're taken care of.

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Speaker 1: That's what it's supposed to be about at base sure,

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Speaker 1: and ideally that's how it goes down. UM. There is

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Speaker 1: not a lot of data about conservatorships and how often

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Speaker 1: they are petitioned to get uh UM uninstated. I think

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Speaker 1: it's removed like uninstated. I like it too. It's a great,

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Speaker 1: great word. Now Okay, I just made up a new Wordever,

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Speaker 1: you could win boggle with that. Chuck uh. And we'll

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Speaker 1: get to the you know why that is a little

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Speaker 1: bit later. But Um, when you petition a court, what

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Speaker 1: happens is there's an evaluation that the court orders of

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Speaker 1: this person who is known as a conservative, and the

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Speaker 1: person in charges the conservatore, and there's an attorney appointed

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Speaker 1: to represent them, and they hold a hearing and they

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Speaker 1: decide whether or not this is something that they should

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Speaker 1: move forward with. There's an evaluation done. Um, the person

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Speaker 1: is allowed to speak on their behalf at this time. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's not the kind of thing where you can, uh

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Speaker 1: just be railroaded. And I'm not exactly sure the details

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Speaker 1: of Britney Spears and when it first happened as far

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Speaker 1: as if she was like, yeah, this is for the

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Speaker 1: best right now, or if she thought him in the beginning,

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Speaker 1: but I think she was. Um, you're saying no, no

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Speaker 1: to which one to to the first that or that

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Speaker 1: she was she was in favor of I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: a second, all right, we'll goad you want me to

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Speaker 1: tell you now we have to wait a second. Any longer. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll fill you and Chuck get that. I watched some

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Speaker 1: of the documentary, but I had other things to do.

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Speaker 1: I saw the documentary two was surprisingly ho hum and

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Speaker 1: totally one sided. I thought it was really kind of

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Speaker 1: gross in a lot of ways, but interesting for sure. UM.

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Speaker 1: But I also read a I read a really good

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Speaker 1: New Yorker um article, a recent one from July three,

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Speaker 1: I think called Britney Spears Conservative Conservatorship Nightmare by Ronan

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Speaker 1: Pharaoh and Jia Tolentino to reporters, and it is just

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Speaker 1: a moment by moment breakdown on well Brittney's breakdown, and

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Speaker 1: then also like how she ended up in it, And

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Speaker 1: from this and other sources, I saw that basically she

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Speaker 1: was not informed um that she was being placed into

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Speaker 1: conservatorship beforehand, which from what I can tell, is a

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Speaker 1: gross violation of her rights in that sense, and that

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Speaker 1: she didn't have a chance to petition the court to

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Speaker 1: basically say no. And then by the time she found

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Speaker 1: out about it and tried to petition it, she was

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Speaker 1: told that she was not in any kind of mental

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Speaker 1: state to hire her own counsel, and so she had

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Speaker 1: counsel appointed to her so she never had an evaluation

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Speaker 1: from so the judge in this case is now retired.

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Speaker 1: And she said that that is not true. Of course

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Speaker 1: she was evaluated, and I talked to her and all

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Speaker 1: that stuff. But the way that this is described as

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Speaker 1: it was a ten minute thing, and it was they

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Speaker 1: went in and and as far like on the surface,

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Speaker 1: the her parents went in and petitioned the judge in

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Speaker 1: ten minutes later, the judge granted full I guess temporary

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Speaker 1: conservatorship um without any any other formalities. That's how it

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Speaker 1: That's how it is, you know, on its face. And

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Speaker 1: then the judges denying that there was any back room

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Speaker 1: um eels or anything made beforehand. So it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: make sense and it kind of stinks to high heaven

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Speaker 1: in that respect. Yeah, what did she think was going on? Then?

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Speaker 1: Who Brittany? When she was evaluated? That's the thing. I

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Speaker 1: don't know that she was evaluated. She had just undergone

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Speaker 1: two fifties, where the the basically the states van Halens too,

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Speaker 1: not just one too, she had a fifty one fifty

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Speaker 1: and an o U eight one too. Oh man, she

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Speaker 1: um she no. So the fifties where somebody can basically

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Speaker 1: say this person is is um is mentally unstable right now,

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Speaker 1: they may be a harm to themselves or others, And

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Speaker 1: the fire department comes and gets you and takes you

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Speaker 1: off to the hospital where you're kept against your will

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Speaker 1: for seventy two hours. That happened to her twice, and

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Speaker 1: upon the second one, her parents went and petitioned the

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Speaker 1: court to to grant them conservatorship, and the court did.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about an evaluation that actually took

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Speaker 1: place as part of the conservatorship. I get the impression that, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: she said to Fies, that's enough for me. Interesting, by

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Speaker 1: the way, we can't say that without shouting out, listener,

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Speaker 1: Aaron Hagar, Oh yeah, that's right to yeah, alright. So

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Speaker 1: there are some different types of conservator ships. One is financial,

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Speaker 1: and they often work hand in hand and sometimes kind

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Speaker 1: of have to. Financial obviously is when you are in

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Speaker 1: charge of someone's finances. The conservative themselves have autonomy, but

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Speaker 1: they don't have financial autonomy. Um, they can't, you know,

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Speaker 1: go out and buy a house or rent a house,

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Speaker 1: or make any big purchases or maybe even any kind

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Speaker 1: of purchases without the conservatory sort of being there along

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Speaker 1: the way saying it's fine. Yeah, and I think they

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Speaker 1: also have, like they generally have spending money. They're given

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Speaker 1: an allowance, um, so they'll have that at least, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: for the big purchases, no way, uh. Physical is when

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Speaker 1: their health and basically medical decisions, their health, their life

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Speaker 1: kind of everything is controlled by the conservativetour and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna mess it up at some point, um, whether or

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Speaker 1: not they want to go to a therapist, or whether

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Speaker 1: or not they wanted to have certain medications. Supposedly they

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Speaker 1: you know, you can't make someone take medication um legally,

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Speaker 1: but it again, especially in her case, it gets very

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Speaker 1: murky with some of the charges she's levied against her

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Speaker 1: father as far as that stuff goes, Yeah, and I

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Speaker 1: mean on that in particular, what I saw was that

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Speaker 1: the carrot and the stick that her father uses against

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Speaker 1: her is visitation rights for her to see her kids.

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Speaker 1: Because that was definitely one thing that came through and

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff I've been reading is that like

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Speaker 1: she is super dedicated to her kids and they've been

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Speaker 1: just kept from her for you know, they're basically their

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Speaker 1: whole lives, and that that was ultimately what really led

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Speaker 1: to her meltdown. You know, the pop rocks. He didn't

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Speaker 1: help and you know, it's being a star. All of

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Speaker 1: that stuff did not help um. But that don't it

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Speaker 1: was you know, it's her kids that is really like

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Speaker 1: the dagger that just gets turned in her chest every time,

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Speaker 1: like she she had to like leave or they had

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Speaker 1: to leave um, and that her father dangles that over her,

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Speaker 1: like if you don't do this, if you don't sign

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Speaker 1: this contractor and do these performances, you know, I can't

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Speaker 1: let you see the kids or whatever. So that's apparently

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Speaker 1: that's because he gets a cut. He does. He gets

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Speaker 1: one point five percent of all new deals too. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she's made a lot of money in the past,

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Speaker 1: you know, years that she's been blocked down. She's had

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Speaker 1: a very successful Vegas run. She had a couple of

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Speaker 1: big albums. She's been guest judges on a couple of

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Speaker 1: the big competition shows. So she's not she's out there

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Speaker 1: earning a lot of money still for her and Pops. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's general conservator ships and that is when it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of everything and these are more common. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of rare. It seems like for there to be uh

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Speaker 1: only a physical conservatorship without being a financial because those

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Speaker 1: things are probably kind of go hand in hand. So

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Speaker 1: general is all encompassing, and then you have your limited

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Speaker 1: conservatorship where it's uh. Usually this is a case where

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Speaker 1: it may be like, um, let's say an adult that's

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Speaker 1: disabled in some way that still wants to have and

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Speaker 1: can have autonomy, physical autonomy, and maybe hold down a

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Speaker 1: job and have their own apartment, but there's just certain

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Speaker 1: parts of their life that a conservator will handle, right. So, um,

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Speaker 1: the everything I saw is that limited is what you're

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Speaker 1: ultimately going for. When you're establishing a conservatorship, you want

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Speaker 1: to you want to minimize the number of restrictions necessary

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Speaker 1: to help the person through their life while maximizing their

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Speaker 1: individual liberties. Yes, so, so when it goes down, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's not supposed to be a one size fits

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Speaker 1: all like boom, this person has all control over them.

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Speaker 1: It's like how much do you need? How much? How

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Speaker 1: much do they need to give up? That's supposed to

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Speaker 1: be the goal of a conservatorship hearing Yeah, uh, and

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Speaker 1: then you've got Sometimes they're categorized by their length. You

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Speaker 1: can have short term, temporary, or permanent. With short term, um,

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Speaker 1: usually it's not more than a few months than ninety days,

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Speaker 1: and it's because of something that happened. It's an immediate need. Um,

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Speaker 1: these can sometimes go down without that formal hearing that

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Speaker 1: we were talking about because it is short term and

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Speaker 1: and you know, capped off at a certain point. That

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Speaker 1: is different than temporary though. Um, temporary can turn into permanent,

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Speaker 1: whereas I don't think short term can. Yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: temporaries where they're like, Okay, this person may get better

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Speaker 1: at some point, but we have no idea when. But

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Speaker 1: when they do get better, they're gonna want to have

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Speaker 1: their life back, So let's just make this temporary. Short

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Speaker 1: term is where I saw. I saw that it's frequently

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Speaker 1: used for when somebody is going into like drug rehab

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Speaker 1: or something like that and they have like a lot

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Speaker 1: of plates in the air or a lot of finances. Um.

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Speaker 1: Although one of the things that I saw is that

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Speaker 1: finances are not supposed to be a reason for conservatorship, right,

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Speaker 1: It's supposed to be to help. I'm afraid they'll spend

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Speaker 1: all their money. Yes, that's supposed to not be a

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Speaker 1: justification for conservatorship. And the problem that I have from

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Speaker 1: the outside with Britney Spears conservatorship is that it seems

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Speaker 1: to be predicated on that that it's almost like this poor,

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Speaker 1: this poor person, her brand grew bigger than her, and

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Speaker 1: so to protect the brand from potentially her, you know,

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Speaker 1: spending it into the ground or whatever, they placed her

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Speaker 1: in conservative conservatorship so that she can't she can't make

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Speaker 1: decisions about her own brand, and then that's being kind

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Speaker 1: of reflected on her own life. So she's being held

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Speaker 1: hostage against well and also being forced to perform. It's

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Speaker 1: one of the most bizarre things I think that's ever

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Speaker 1: happened in the legal systems, and especially it's nuts that

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Speaker 1: it's been ongoing for so long too and so public. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a very interesting case. Uh all right, let's take

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Speaker 1: a break. Yeah, yeah, alright, no name is Steve's not

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Speaker 1: saying nay, what if they've just piped in. I was like, no,

300
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Speaker 1: keep going, keep going, I'm the conservative here. We'll be

301
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Speaker 1: back right after this. Learning's stop with Joshua John Stop.

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Speaker 1: If you want to know then you're in luck. Just

303
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Speaker 1: listen up to Chuck Fuson. So, Chuck, there was one

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Speaker 1: other type of conservatorship by duration that we didn't mention.

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Speaker 1: That is apparently pretty typical, which is permanent. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mentioned that. I guess I thought it was self explanatory.

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Speaker 1: It's permanent. Go on, well, it's permanent in spirit. Um.

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Speaker 1: But you can, as we're seeing now, file to have

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Speaker 1: it removed or I don't even know that word I

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Speaker 1: coined earlier, unreinstated. I don't even think um, I'm sorry,

311
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Speaker 1: re uninstated, so um noninstated. See the whole point of

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Speaker 1: coining new words, you gotta be able to use them

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Speaker 1: at the you know, drop of the hat. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: I mean you gotta take some practice, you know what

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Speaker 1: I'm saying. So the reason permanent, though um is so typical,

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Speaker 1: and as far as conservatorships goes because most of the

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Speaker 1: time when you end up in conservatorship, it's because you

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Speaker 1: suffered some sort of very debilitating problem or you've had

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Speaker 1: it your whole life, like it's just it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: a long term issue that you're dealing with. So you're

321
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Speaker 1: this is a long term solution of permanent conservatorship, right,

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Speaker 1: And that really ties hand in hand with kind of

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Speaker 1: the next part about how to get one um. It

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Speaker 1: is usually almost always because of some sort of mental

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Speaker 1: incapacity of some form, whether that's temporary or like you

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Speaker 1: said earlier, for a temporary like you know, someone's in

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Speaker 1: an accident and there in a coma, but they come

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Speaker 1: out of the coma in two weeks and then you know,

329
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Speaker 1: work their way back to good health again and they

330
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Speaker 1: wake up and there like Ricky Lake, we're engaged now, Lake. Wow,

331
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Speaker 1: you really pulled that one out of some thank you,

332
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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, thank you. Uh, you know we

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Speaker 1: mentioned stuff like dimension Alzheimer's. That is a very very

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Speaker 1: common case um for conservator ships. Or if you have,

335
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Speaker 1: like you said, from birth, if you have some sort

336
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Speaker 1: of um, permanent disability, um, no matter how that came about,

337
00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,000
Speaker 1: then that's you know, oftentimes like parents or some other

338
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,199
Speaker 1: family member just from the time you're a kid, had

339
00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,560
Speaker 1: that conservatorship. Yeah, and and basically there's like a two

340
00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,320
Speaker 1: pronged tests to applying a conservatorship. I'm gonna say it

341
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:15,880
Speaker 1: correctly the first time one of these one of these

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Speaker 1: times in this episode, I can't even say conservatives I can't.

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Speaker 1: That's great. Check. Um, so is the person unable to

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Speaker 1: basically meet their own basic needs like care for themselves,

345
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Speaker 1: feed themselves, that kind of stuff, um, in which case

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Speaker 1: there would be a conservatorship of the person where you

347
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Speaker 1: can make like medical decisions for them, maybe living arrangements,

348
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Speaker 1: like decide if they're going to live in a long

349
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Speaker 1: term care facility something like that, or and or um.

350
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Speaker 1: Can they make decisions for themselves which are um sound

351
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Speaker 1: financially like can they understand a contract that they're signing.

352
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Speaker 1: Can they understand that if they, you know, buy this house,

353
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Speaker 1: that they have to pay this amount of money or

354
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Speaker 1: something like. And if they can't do either or both

355
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,439
Speaker 1: of those things, then a conservatorship might be just the

356
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 1: thing to kind of help them make it through life,

357
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Speaker 1: especially again if they have um substantial wealth or if

358
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Speaker 1: they are just totally unable to care for themselves. Yeah,

359
00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 1: and you know the way this goes down ideally and

360
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Speaker 1: I think more typically than what we're seeing in Britney

361
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Speaker 1: Spears cases. You know, medical records are presented there, the

362
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Speaker 1: probate or family court is handling this, the conservaty is

363
00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:38,199
Speaker 1: either understands and goes along with it because they know

364
00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:41,320
Speaker 1: it's for their own good or um isn't you know,

365
00:21:41,359 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: it is clearly not capable, which is why they need

366
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Speaker 1: the conservatory to to begin with of making these decisions.

367
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:49,359
Speaker 1: And again, it's just super rare for this kind of

368
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Speaker 1: case where someone is having something done seemingly against their will,

369
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Speaker 1: kind of from the kid go yeah, I mean, like,

370
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Speaker 1: for the most for the most part, if you're in

371
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Speaker 1: a conservatorship, like you might not even be conscious, you

372
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: might have no idea that you're under a conservatorship. Um,

373
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Speaker 1: you might not be able to work or hold down

374
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 1: a job or remember to feed yourself. You're certainly not

375
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: going on world tour and releasing four albums, two of

376
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: which go platinum, and then maintaining a Vegas residency and

377
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: generating a hundred thirty million dollars in income over you know,

378
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Speaker 1: ten thirteen years something like that. It just makes it's

379
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: just so bizarre. It's so bizarre. And I have to say, also,

380
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Speaker 1: one other thing, I don't want to give the impression

381
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Speaker 1: that I'm just like a like a hashtag free Brittany person.

382
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 1: Like I understand that those people have um just the

383
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Speaker 1: best intentions, and my hat is off to them. But

384
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Speaker 1: I also think it's very very wise to remember, like

385
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: we're seeing all this from the outside, most of the

386
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 1: court documents involved are sealed and so there's a lot

387
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:49,920
Speaker 1: of like t leaf reading and trying to figure out

388
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 1: what's really going on here. And it's it's entirely possible

389
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: that that this conservatorship has kind of helped Brittany. Like

390
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,920
Speaker 1: the people who defend who been involved and defend it, say,

391
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,119
Speaker 1: you know, she had a couple of million dollars left

392
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 1: some of the worst people in the world surrounding her. Um,

393
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 1: her money was going fast, her brand was starting to go,

394
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: and now she's worth like sixty to eighty million dollars.

395
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 1: She's back on top. She doesn't have a bunch of

396
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,920
Speaker 1: scummy people hanging around her UM. And then the scummy

397
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 1: people are like no, these people came in and wrestled

398
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,120
Speaker 1: control of Brittany's own life and now they're in charge

399
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,560
Speaker 1: of her and they're they're builking her for money. So

400
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: it's it's really impossible to tell who to trust at

401
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 1: this point in time. So I think it's it's wise

402
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,160
Speaker 1: to to at least keep something of an open mind,

403
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:40,479
Speaker 1: even if it seems totally on the surface like this,

404
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,280
Speaker 1: this pop star is being held prisoner in public. You know, well,

405
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,400
Speaker 1: when you need those TV's ready, you know, you get

406
00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:51,000
Speaker 1: hold on hold on. I don't know, you get run

407
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:56,600
Speaker 1: in Pharaoh. That's right, Frank Sinatra Jr. That's right? Is no,

408
00:23:56,720 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: he's junior junior right? Oh well, I'm he supposedly no,

409
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:08,440
Speaker 1: I mean he's supposedly what the Allan's son? But that's right.

410
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,720
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not the first person. I mean, that's

411
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,040
Speaker 1: it's a it's a big thing online, like come on,

412
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,239
Speaker 1: that's that's Frank's kid. Sure, but who knows supposedly not?

413
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, we're just hitting the celebrity beat

414
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 1: all over the place. Uh do you remember kids beat

415
00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: on Nickelodeon? Ye see you next. That popped into my

416
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,480
Speaker 1: head the other day out of nowhere, and I was like,

417
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: did I just make that up? That was a thing though,

418
00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 1: h yeah, I I don't remember anything but that catchphrase.

419
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: That's same here here, nothing else. Maybe we had a

420
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: group hallucination. It's possible, like the Bear and Stain bears.

421
00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: Uh oh yeah, that's right. What's that called? Uh yeah? Alright?

422
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: So uh in her case in California and this House

423
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: to Works article that we got a lot of this

424
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,680
Speaker 1: from highlights this um it is different in every state

425
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: with with a lot of legalities like this, So it

426
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: will differ depending on where you are. But in California

427
00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,360
Speaker 1: they have something called the Judicial Council of California's Handbook

428
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,679
Speaker 1: for Conservatories, where it does lay out about a dozen

429
00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 1: rights of someone like Britney Spears, which one of which

430
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 1: is they can directly receive their salary. So supposedly she

431
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: like it's it's not like the checks getting written to

432
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: Jamie Spears and he doles it out. Supposedly, by law,

433
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: she is receiving her salary. Still, oh oh that's not

434
00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: at all what I heard. Oh really, she has her

435
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: living expenses met and they total about four hundred and

436
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: twenty five thousand dollars a year um. So she has

437
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: everything she wants, but she doesn't pay for anything herself.

438
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that doesn't mean that the check isn't

439
00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: made out in her name. Oh no, no, no, no, absolutely,

440
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,160
Speaker 1: you're right, you're right. But the whole, the whole, her

441
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: dad doling it out. That's yeah. Yeah. What I'm just

442
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 1: saying is is like the check doesn't come name, Yeah, no,

443
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: it's all it's all in her name. Still, the right

444
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,000
Speaker 1: to receive calls and mail and see people. Uh, you

445
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,679
Speaker 1: can change your will Um, legally, you can get married,

446
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,479
Speaker 1: you can hire your own lawyer, which was has been

447
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,600
Speaker 1: a big bone of contention with the Britney Spears case

448
00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: because she had this court appointed lawyer for many, many

449
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: years until very recently when she was finally like, can

450
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:28,880
Speaker 1: I at least hire my own person? And the whole

451
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: Free Brittany crew has basically been like that that lawyer

452
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,199
Speaker 1: is chummy with her dad, like he's working for her

453
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,280
Speaker 1: dad rather than her you know. Um, so yeah, it

454
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,680
Speaker 1: might have been. That's why at the beginning I was saying,

455
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: like she might finally be getting out from under this

456
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: conservatorship because she has a new lawyer of her own choosing.

457
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: There's a new sheriff in town, there is, and everybody's

458
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: running for the hills. Uh. What we're seeing play out

459
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,359
Speaker 1: now or another couple of things on the list the

460
00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:59,239
Speaker 1: request to either change conservators or in the conservatorship, they

461
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,360
Speaker 1: are allowed to out, Um, they're allowed to control their

462
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 1: own allowance, but it doesn't you know that very clearly

463
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're allowed to establish their own allowance, yeah,

464
00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 1: or what the amount is or anything. Yeah. Uh, their

465
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 1: medical decisions and business transactions are should be under their

466
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: control and uh was there one more UM. So basically,

467
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 1: anything you're allowed to do at the at the beginning

468
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 1: of it the conservatorship, you should be able to throw out. UM.

469
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,440
Speaker 1: There were a couple of things in there that that

470
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,320
Speaker 1: and that was I think California's rights, right, Yeah, so

471
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,880
Speaker 1: this is a California case. She's under a California conservatorship,

472
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: so all of those should very much apply to her. UM.

473
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 1: But she has said recently that like her father won't

474
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,320
Speaker 1: let her get married, he decides who she can date

475
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,679
Speaker 1: or not date. And again I don't think that's that's legal,

476
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: but I think he can threaten like um uh um,

477
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: not just visitation like UM, restraining orders. He can take

478
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: out restraining orders in her name against whomever he deems

479
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: um like inappropriate, and I guess can demonstrate to the

480
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: court that this person might be a bad influence on

481
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,160
Speaker 1: her UM and that that that's probably how he is

482
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,679
Speaker 1: has been able to decide who she dates or doesn't

483
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: date because she wants to marry a dude right now,

484
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 1: she says, and have more kids. And the other big

485
00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 1: the really truly shocking revelation that she she revealed recently

486
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 1: is that she has an I U d that her

487
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,200
Speaker 1: father won't let her remove she can't have kids, so

488
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: her reproductive rights are being infringed upon under this conservatorship,

489
00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: and that is a very big deal. Yeah. And again

490
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,200
Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff where there's there's two

491
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: two sides talking and we don't know the real truth

492
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: on the inside. But at the very least, like when

493
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,240
Speaker 1: an accusation like that big is is levied, you have to,

494
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: as a I would think as the court, have to

495
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: look into that kind of thing. Yeah. And there there

496
00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: have been court appointed in instigators before um, and one

497
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 1: of them I read concluded like she should probably not

498
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: be under this conservatorship anymore. It wasn't like you know,

499
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: they joined the Free Brittany crowd or anything like that,

500
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: but like that was their report and their recommendation. Um.

501
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: But it's like you're saying, you know, we're seeing this

502
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,320
Speaker 1: from the outside. So like the people who who are

503
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 1: on the inside in this conservatorship point out, like you know,

504
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: she wasn't worth very much, um then and she's now,

505
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: so she's kind of thriving under this arrangement, which is

506
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: apparently a way that a conservators somebody could end up

507
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: in a conservatorship for the rest of the life, thriving

508
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: under the conservatorship, and then conversely, if you struggle under

509
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: the conservatorship and have a really hard time, that can

510
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 1: be used as evidence that you need to be under

511
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,480
Speaker 1: the conservatorship as well. So you kind of get this

512
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,239
Speaker 1: impression that it's like a if you're if you're like

513
00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: a with it, person able to make your own decisions,

514
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,040
Speaker 1: and you find yourself in a conservatorship, you probably feel

515
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: like you're just totally out of your mind and just

516
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 1: can't believe this is happening to it sounds nightmarish. If

517
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,040
Speaker 1: if if it's like as bad as from what Brittany

518
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 1: is saying it is, you know, well yeah, and I'm

519
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: sure she's in a case where she's trying to establish

520
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 1: something a little more nuanced, like emotional well being, rather

521
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: than like someone can a judge can say, look at

522
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: all this money you've made since this has happened, and

523
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 1: you know it's there's a lot more to it than that, though,

524
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: it's to be a whole human well that's another thing

525
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 1: too though. So the original co conservator, along with Jamie Spears,

526
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 1: Brittany's father was a guy named Andrew Wallett and he

527
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: was court appointed. Terrible name for a conservator, terrible, like

528
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: he should have just been like, I can't be a

529
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: conservator because of my last name. But he was Andrew C. O. D.

530
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,479
Speaker 1: And he was for many many many years actually, and

531
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: actually it was under under his conservatorship or co conservatorship

532
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: that she kind of like came back and started working

533
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 1: again and um started making money again. Uh, and I

534
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: guess kind of thrived at least as a business um.

535
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: And he was basically run out of the conservatorship on

536
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 1: a rail because he asked for a salary towards the

537
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: end of four hundred and twenty six thousand dollars a year,

538
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 1: which is a lot of money. The thing is, his

539
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,960
Speaker 1: point was like, look, if you're a conservator, basically under

540
00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: normal circumstances, you're just kind of keeping up with somebody's

541
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 1: quiet life, one one everyday person and their quiet life

542
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: and their little finances and making sure they're taken care of.

543
00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: As as conservator of Britney Spears, the state, he was

544
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: like running basically a international business that had all these

545
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: fingers and all these pots. And he said, most people

546
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 1: who are in that position make millions of dollars a year.

547
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: I'm asking for four d so like that to me

548
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: was a real reminder, like, oh yeah, there's actually two

549
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: sides of this coin, Like this is an unusual situation

550
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: for anybody. Um, and it kind of makes sense in

551
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: that respect, although if you look at the normal amount

552
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: that it can would would charge for their time. Um,

553
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 1: he was asking for a lot. Actually, yeah, and that's

554
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: a good point as far as your obligation as conservator

555
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,120
Speaker 1: you uh, And again put Britney Spears aside for a second,

556
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: and these ideal situations, they are genuinely taking care of

557
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: these people, meeting their daily needs and necessities, making sure

558
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: all their bills are paid and their checkbook is balanced,

559
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 1: and you know, they don't go in the whole financially. Um.

560
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: The big hooking point here, though, is is that if

561
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 1: you're a financial conservator, you're not supposed to be using

562
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 1: that person's money for your own benefit. Like you said,

563
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: you are allowed to take a salary, and it says

564
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: in this article somewhere between forty and a hundred dollars

565
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: per hour, which means Jamie Spears uh is taking a

566
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 1: hundred dollars per hour at forty hours a week. Because

567
00:32:56,160 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: he's getting sixteen thousand dollars a month and that that's

568
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 1: what it comes to, like the basically the top rate

569
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: at forty hours per week, which when you look at that,

570
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: I mean if that he, like you said, though, he

571
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 1: also gets a cut of her stuff, um to play

572
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: devil's advocate. He is taking a salary commisserate with what

573
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 1: a conservator historically can take. Yeah, so Andrew Walllett, if

574
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,760
Speaker 1: you look at it from the from the perspective, well

575
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: he's a conservator and not actually like running the business,

576
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: then he'd yeah, he'd have to work more than eighty

577
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 1: hours a week, fifty weeks a year at a hundred

578
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 1: dollars an hour. But again his point was, this isn't

579
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: a normal conservatorship. This is running the Britney spears in

580
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 1: multinational enterprise for her benefit, you know. Yeah, and if

581
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: you're the conservatory, you also you know you're gonna at

582
00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 1: some point probably have to answer to the court, especially

583
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 1: in some case like this. So you've gotta have all

584
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 1: your ducks in a row, you've got to keep receipts,

585
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: and you've got to have a paper trail to kind

586
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,560
Speaker 1: of back up everything. You can't just waltz in there

587
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: and say like, trust me, everything's going fine. Um, supposedly

588
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to have pretty robust records for kind

589
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: of every financial decision you're making on behalf of your

590
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 1: conservative So that's ideally, Um, now we reached the reality

591
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,960
Speaker 1: and that's this is one good thing of Britney spears

592
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,680
Speaker 1: um uh conservatorship and all the light she's shining on

593
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: conservatorship abuse right now is like this is an issue

594
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: in normal, like non celebrity society where people can get

595
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:31,440
Speaker 1: preyed upon by basically a professional conservator um. And there's

596
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: a General Accounting Office report that basically said, the states

597
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: have no idea how many people, how many of its

598
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:43,200
Speaker 1: citizens or residents are under conservatorship right now, how much

599
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 1: money is being held in conservatorship right now. They might

600
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 1: have a good idea in some cases, and other cases

601
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 1: they have no idea. And as part of the report,

602
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: the g a O basically made up UM identities in

603
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,120
Speaker 1: like four different states around the country and applied for

604
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: conservatorship and they were granted in all four cases. Are

605
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: all four states conservatorship to to be to go out

606
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,800
Speaker 1: and be a conservator to a stranger and take control

607
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: of some strangers finances as part of like as their career,

608
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: and the states didn't check their background, didn't run their

609
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: social Security numbers, didn't do a credit check, didn't do anything.

610
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: They just basically rubber stamped it. Like this person wants

611
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,960
Speaker 1: to be a conservator. There you go. You're a state

612
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 1: licensed conservator now, who can go take control of the

613
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:34,799
Speaker 1: finances of someone who's never even met you before? And like,

614
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,319
Speaker 1: in that respect, this is ripe for abuse. This is

615
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: the kind of situation where a judge is morally obligated

616
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:48,359
Speaker 1: to give as much attention to to each case as

617
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: needed to make sure hundred and ten percent sure that

618
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 1: the person under conservatorship is not being exploited, is not

619
00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: being taken advantage of financially, is not being kept I

620
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: think they call it isolated UM, medicated and liquidated UM

621
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: and kept away from their family and their loved ones UM.

622
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: It can be a nightmare unless the court is overseeing

623
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: this properly, and apparently in all cases they don't, which

624
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,359
Speaker 1: is just unconscionable, and judges who dropped the ball on

625
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: that should be run out of town right into jail themselves.

626
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: All right, let's take a break. Thanks, thanks for me,

627
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,399
Speaker 1: and uh, we'll be back right after this to talk

628
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: about where how you can end these things and some

629
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: legislation that might could help as well right after this.

630
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: If you want to know, then you're in luck. Just

631
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: listen to Chuck Shon. Alright, so I mentioned before we

632
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 1: get into how you can terminate this. Uh, this sort

633
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,120
Speaker 1: of dovetails with with your uh, with your great soapbox

634
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,399
Speaker 1: moment right before the break. If I may say, uh,

635
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,080
Speaker 1: there's legislation as of um, about an hour and a

636
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: half ago. I read this on New York Times. Wait

637
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,440
Speaker 1: a minute, it was published an hour and a half.

638
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 1: Where you just read it an hour a half ago.

639
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: It was published an hour and a half ago. Wow,

640
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 1: that is late breaking for stuff. You should know. This

641
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:42,280
Speaker 1: is super late breaking. Uh. Two members of the House

642
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:44,960
Speaker 1: UH co sponsored. And you know when you see these

643
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: bills co sponsored on both sides of the aisles for

644
00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 1: these kind of smaller bills, that's when you know that

645
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,760
Speaker 1: government can work. Was it was it? Senator Lance Bass

646
00:37:52,760 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 1: and Senator Joey Fatone. That's good you uh. Coast answers. Rep.

647
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: Charlie Christ Democrat of Florida and Nancy Mace Republican from

648
00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 1: South Carolina legislation that if they passed, it would create,

649
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,239
Speaker 1: um a pathway for Britney Spears and other people to

650
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: replace their private guardian or conservator. So it basically um

651
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:25,879
Speaker 1: it argues for more accountability. It argues UM that UM

652
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:27,560
Speaker 1: that we need more data on this stuff. Like you

653
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: were saying, how like no one knows how much money

654
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:31,439
Speaker 1: is tied up in this, No one knows how many

655
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: people are trying to get out of these There's just

656
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: like it's it's shockingly Uh. I don't want to just

657
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: say willie nilly because that's probably not fair, but understudied

658
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 1: at least, Yeah, under observed for sure. So uh, as

659
00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: of now, in order to get out of a conservatorship,

660
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 1: you have to prove fraud or abuse that that is

661
00:38:55,719 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: has occurred to have that be replaced. And this bill

662
00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: would kind of roll that back and say it doesn't

663
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be abuse or fraud. It could just

664
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:08,760
Speaker 1: be that they don't aren't comfortable with it, their emotional

665
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 1: well being is not being met or whatever, and just

666
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: to make it a little bit easier to free someone

667
00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 1: up from these conservatorships. And so we'll see that was

668
00:39:18,800 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: there was one a few years ago in twenty nineteen

669
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 1: that didn't get beyond the House Judiciary Committee. But everyone's

670
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: kind of thinking with all this attention right now because

671
00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,959
Speaker 1: the Britney Spears case, that they might have a little

672
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: momentum to get something like that done. Oh yeah, big time.

673
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: Like there's called the Free Act. By the way, Uh,

674
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:39,880
Speaker 1: they appreciate the acronyms freedom now freedom and Right to

675
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: Emancipate from Exploitation Act. Okay, all right, I I can

676
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: respect like bending over backwards a little bit to make

677
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: that work. That was all right, okay, I think Chuck. Also,

678
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 1: one of the reasons why they um, they have aired

679
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 1: to this point on the side of making it more

680
00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: difficult to remove a conservatore is because they've kind of, um,

681
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,359
Speaker 1: there's like a this maybe a suspicion that you know,

682
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,360
Speaker 1: you could have a fight or a falling out or

683
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: something like that over something totally unrelated to the conservatorship,

684
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: and you know, the person could be Now, the person

685
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 1: could be like, that's it, you're not my conservatory more,

686
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: I want you out of my life or whatever. And

687
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: the person might be great as their conservator um, and

688
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: it might be a really good conservatorship, but it just

689
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, there was that that moment or that following out,

690
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 1: So in that sense it should be made difficult. But

691
00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:34,439
Speaker 1: then on the other hand, it's like, is that really

692
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: the way we should be airing. Should we be airing toward,

693
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: you know, away from the rights and the desires of

694
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 1: the person who's whose life and responsibilities for their life

695
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: has been taken away from them, Like, shouldn't that shouldn't

696
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: they at least have the right to choose who's calling

697
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 1: the shots for them, who's making those decisions for them.

698
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,439
Speaker 1: And I think ultimately I kind of leaned towards the

699
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: the rights of the individual. Yeah, I mean, it also

700
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 1: makes you wonder about, you know, if they're let's say

701
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: there's no kids involved and it's a case of, um,

702
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: someone of using drugs or something like. It is an

703
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: interesting slippery slope to think about whether an adult has

704
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: a right to throw their life away and and make

705
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: bad decisions, or whether or not it should be legal

706
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: for someone to be able to step in and save somebody.

707
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: It's like, that's just really I don't even know how

708
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: I feel about. It's just an interesting thought experiment. I

709
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,800
Speaker 1: came across something called the right to risk, where basically

710
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,160
Speaker 1: it's exactly what they just said, like everybody has the

711
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 1: right to just blow it completely, including a fortune, including fame,

712
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: including um, you know, alienating loved ones, doing whatever you

713
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,600
Speaker 1: want to ruin your own life, that you have that

714
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: that right. But I think the law recognizes that there

715
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:56,240
Speaker 1: are some some mental states that a person can can

716
00:41:56,400 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: enter to where they wouldn't otherwise want to do those things.

717
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: And I think that's what the people under who are

718
00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 1: running Brittany's conservatorship are saying that, like Brittany isn't capable

719
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:15,840
Speaker 1: of keeping people who would unduly influence her to to

720
00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: throw her life away at bay. She can't keep those

721
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: people at bay. She doesn't understand the documents as she's signing,

722
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: and then there's whispers and or like hushed rumors of

723
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: like no, the real reason she'll probably be in a

724
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: permanent conservatorship is because there's some diagnosed mental illness that

725
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: is just sealed because it's a medical record. Um, and

726
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 1: that that's kind of like what gets leaked out on

727
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: the conservatorship side. So UM, I don't know. I think

728
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: having like uh an attorney that is of her choosing

729
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:54,440
Speaker 1: who's sharp that is working for her and her alone

730
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 1: getting into this and really finding out what's what and

731
00:42:57,960 --> 00:43:01,040
Speaker 1: going into court. Um, I think that that would be Uh,

732
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,279
Speaker 1: that's a I think that will be a really I'm

733
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: interested to see what the outcome of that is. I

734
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,279
Speaker 1: don't see how that couldn't be a good step at

735
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:13,239
Speaker 1: least to have more investigation done by someone of her choosing. Yeah,

736
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: because for years, apparently her big problem was not with

737
00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: being under conservatorship. It was her dad being the conservator

738
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: and so he was co conservators with a couple of people,

739
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 1: and she apparently even was fine with one of them

740
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: for a little while, but then um, they resigned because

741
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:32,839
Speaker 1: she said she wasn't fine with them any longer. And

742
00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:34,920
Speaker 1: then now it's just back to her dad being in

743
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: total soul control. So I wonder if, like, if her

744
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 1: dad is forced out and it's just strictly like lawyers

745
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: and fiduciaries who are in charge of her conservatorship, if

746
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,959
Speaker 1: she would be like, no, this is fine, I'm fine

747
00:43:47,960 --> 00:43:51,360
Speaker 1: with this. I wonder, Uh, it's gonna be interesting to

748
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: see what happens with that and this legislation as they

749
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 1: kind of go hand in hand. Absolutely, do you got

750
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: anything else. I got nothing else. I do want to

751
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:04,800
Speaker 1: shout out my pal Babs Gray Barbera Gray and Tess

752
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: Barker are two comedians in l A. And they were

753
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 1: in that documentary and have Champion in Britney's case for

754
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 1: a while. And they have a new podcast out and

755
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:16,320
Speaker 1: it's called They had one called Britney's Graham Brittany's Instagram

756
00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: the podcast but down. They have a new one called

757
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: Toxic Colon. And boy, if we get our new uh

758
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:27,240
Speaker 1: Colan barbershop quartet interned there, that'd be great. The Britney

759
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 1: Spears story, so that's getting a lot of its interest

760
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: right now. Cool. Yeah, they're all over the place right now,

761
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,440
Speaker 1: so big ups, big ups. Uh. If you want to

762
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: know more about Conservatorships and Brittney Spears and Lance Bass,

763
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: well you can just start searching the internet and jump

764
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: down that rabbit hole see what happens. And since I

765
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: said that, it's time, of course for a listener mail,

766
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this cool job that I've never heard of.

767
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: This is from one of our Irish friends. Oh yeah,

768
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 1: I love this one. Hey, guys. First things first, thanks

769
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:01,600
Speaker 1: for a really great podcast. I've been listening every day

770
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,680
Speaker 1: since my first day as a delivery driver five years

771
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 1: ago in Dublin, Ireland. It's been the week driving all

772
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:10,040
Speaker 1: over the country and you've been my companions. Uh. Last

773
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:12,839
Speaker 1: week I came across the episode Jobs from a Bygone Era,

774
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,080
Speaker 1: a classic, and I wanted to share with you a

775
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: job my great grandfather did that definitely applies. He worked

776
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 1: in Dublin City as a knocker upper and I was like,

777
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: wait what. A knocker upper was a job that existed

778
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:29,680
Speaker 1: at a time after the Industrial Revolution, but before alarm

779
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 1: clocks were widely available to the poorest that filled the

780
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 1: factories with workers for a tiny weekly fee. A knocker

781
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:41,400
Speaker 1: upper was employed to knock on doors or tap on windows.

782
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,360
Speaker 1: It's like a wake up call in a hotel. Basically,

783
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 1: they usually used to poll or a long stick or

784
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,360
Speaker 1: bamboo to tap on the bedroom windows. There's great picks

785
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 1: online of a famous lady in London using a pea shooter. Uh.

786
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 1: My great grandfather though it was an even rarer breed

787
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: as he was known as a knocker uppers knocker upper.

788
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 1: He was employed by the other knocker ruppers to wake

789
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: them up wow, so they could go and wake up

790
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: the customers all over the city. Eventually they were all

791
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: put out of business when the country went electric. People

792
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: learn clocks hit the market, but they were snapshot in

793
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: time and provided much needed service. I wanted to share

794
00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,439
Speaker 1: this little bit of social history with you guys after

795
00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: everything you've given me. Look forward to a live show

796
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 1: in Ireland sometime. Uh, Mike, we'd love to come back

797
00:46:27,239 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 1: to Ireland. We did did that show and that was

798
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: fun Dublin and it was one of the best. Yeah. Yeah,

799
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,759
Speaker 1: that's that's a pretty great email, Mike, thank you for that.

800
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,239
Speaker 1: Um Hey, I have a little anecdote about knocked up,

801
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: about knocked up. Yeah, so when Yumi was little, she

802
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 1: thought knocked up meant you were in trouble, like you

803
00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:49,439
Speaker 1: were grounded. Yeah, and um it led to at least

804
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: one case of hilarity with her dad asking where her

805
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: friend was and you me, so she's knocked up. She

806
00:46:55,880 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: came up dead. It's like, what can't come out for

807
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: a nine months? Is like, yeah, this is like nine

808
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: or ten years old, I think. So. Thanks Mike, thanks

809
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: little you me uh, and thank you guys for listening.

810
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: And if you want to get in touch with us,

811
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:15,480
Speaker 1: like Mike did, you can send us an email to

812
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:22,720
Speaker 1: stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should

813
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,719
Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

814
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart radio app, Apple Podcasts,

815
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.