1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Joining us now. Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts Seth Moulton, who 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: is also a member of the House Select Committee on 3 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: Competition with China. Congressman, thank you very much for joining 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: us this evening. When we think about the Executive Order 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: and how narrow in scope it is really just focusing 6 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: on specific things like quantum technology and artificial intelligence. It's 7 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: been described as a high fence for a small yard. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Should the fence be higher or the yard be bigger? 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 2: Is this doing enough? Well, this is exactly the debate 10 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 2: that we're going to have. 11 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 3: We're having it on the China Committee already, and we're 12 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 3: going to be having it more. 13 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 2: Broadly in Congress. 14 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 4: You know. 15 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 3: My quick take on it is it's a huge step 16 00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 3: in the right direction, but it may not go far enough. 17 00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: And that's exactly what we're going to be debating in 18 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 2: the coming days and weeks. 19 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: As you debate that, are there specific actions you would 20 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,280 Speaker 1: be advocating for things you would like the administration to 21 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: be pursuing in the interim. 22 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 3: So I co chaired a task force on the future 23 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 3: of our national security. It was called the Future Defense 24 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 3: Task Force. A couple of years ago. One of the 25 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 3: industries that we identified of particular concern is the biotech industry. 26 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,039 Speaker 3: We're the world leaders here in Boston, but really number 27 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,320 Speaker 3: two is Beijing. And although it's hard for us to 28 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 3: imagine right now that you could actually manufacture tools for 29 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: national security through biotech, that's exactly where this is headed. 30 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,320 Speaker 3: And so we've got to look carefully at whether we 31 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 3: should have restrictions on biotech investing as well. That's just 32 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 3: an example of how we might have to make this 33 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:28,640 Speaker 3: yard a little bit bigger now in terms of the 34 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: fence being higher right now. What the Executive Order says 35 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: is that direct investments in concerning industries are a problem 36 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 3: with certain companies, but if subsidiaries of those companies make 37 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 3: these investments, there's nothing wrong with continuing to invest in, 38 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 3: you know, sort of the parent company. That's very concerning 39 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 3: to me because we all know how integrated these conglomerates 40 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 3: are in China, not just with their different subsidiaries, but 41 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: with the Chinese Communist Party. So this is another area 42 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: that we're going to be examining closely in the weeks 43 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 3: to come. 44 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:04,880 Speaker 1: So if you are looking at areas, Congressmen, in which 45 00:02:04,880 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: you could go even further in some of these restrictions 46 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: and in theory, could make the relationship with China even 47 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: more tense. At the same time that the administration is 48 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: trying to restore regular more regular communications and relations with Beijing. 49 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: Having administration officials meet their counterparts, how difficult is that 50 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:24,120 Speaker 1: needle to thread? 51 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 3: Look, it's challenging, But the number one goal with all 52 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,760 Speaker 3: of this is the terms. We do not want World 53 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: War three to start, perhaps with a fight over Taiwan 54 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,639 Speaker 3: in the Pacific. That should be the goal of all 55 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 3: of our policies at the end of the day. So, 56 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 3: while we're focused right now on competition with China, how 57 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 3: do we compete more effectively with them in certain key 58 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: technological areas, not only for our safety because of the 59 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 3: national security implications, but also because we know that China 60 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: has a policy of stealing our technology, stealing our intellectual property. 61 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 3: So the discussion is around having more effective competition. But 62 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, if that doesn't ultimately 63 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 3: deter conflict, then then we're shooting ourselves in the foot, right, 64 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 3: So all of these policies have to come back to deterrence, 65 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: and that's a point that I think is often forgotten. 66 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 3: We're talking about the economic implications. We're asking does it 67 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 3: go far enough? But really the fundamental question is does 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,200 Speaker 3: this make it less likely we go to war or 69 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 3: more likely to go to war. That's going to be 70 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 3: my litmus test for ultimately voting for any policies like 71 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 3: this that come through Congress. 72 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so, Congressman, that's on preventing the wars of the future. 73 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: There is also the question of the role of the 74 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: US in the roles of today, specifically on the issue 75 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: of support for Ukraine. President Biden just today put his 76 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,440 Speaker 1: request for supplemental aid for Ukraine to Congress twenty four 77 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: billion dollars. Combined with other emergency disaster aid and border 78 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: in migration funding requests, it brings the total supplemental request 79 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: to forty billion dollars. I'd like to get your reaction 80 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: if we could, to what Congressman Republican Congressman French Hill 81 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: of Arkansas told us on Bloomberg's sound on Today about 82 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: the idea of a supplemental Take a. 83 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 4: Listen, don't just take the easy way out and do 84 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 4: a supplemental So I think the issue is less about 85 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:18,920 Speaker 4: Ukraine wildfires, supporting Taiwan and more about doing it inside 86 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: those budget caps that President Biden agreed to with Speaker McCarthy. 87 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: Congressman, is this supplemental package too big of an ask 88 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: for this Congress? 89 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: Well, look, the Republicans are leading the House, and they've 90 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 3: been all over the map. I mean, Kevin McCarthy has 91 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 3: already renegged, at least in his conversations with his most 92 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 3: extreme members of the Freedom Caucus. He's already renegged on 93 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,960 Speaker 3: the deal that he made with President Biden. So I 94 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 3: think that there's this quiet understanding on both sides of 95 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 3: the aisle that the way to get around these extremists 96 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: who are holding the Republican leadership of the House hostage 97 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 3: is in. 98 00:04:56,920 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: Fact have to do a supplemental I understand. 99 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,320 Speaker 3: It's easy for a French and others and to get 100 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 3: on TV and say we don't want to do it 101 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 3: that way, and in a perfect world we wouldn't. But 102 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 3: let's be honest about the power centers here and the 103 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 3: Republican Party and what's actually going on with holding holding 104 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 3: Kevin McCarthy's feet. 105 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 2: Well, when it comes to getting any of this pass. 106 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: Well, Congressman, you speak of quiet understandings, is there also 107 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: a quiet understanding for you and your colleagues on Capitol 108 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: Hill that the government is going to shut down this fall. 109 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: Where do you put the odds of that. Sadly, yes, 110 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 2: there is a quiet understanding of that. 111 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 3: There's this feeling that the Republican Party is much more 112 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 3: interested in grievances than governing, and they're going to find 113 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 3: any excuse under the sun to shut the government down 114 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 3: just to make a political point. 115 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 2: And of course they have a lot of excuses at hands. 116 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 3: I mean, we have eleven appropriations bill basic government funding 117 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 3: bills that they have yet to pass, so they're way 118 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 3: behind the ball. They're not doing their basic job, their 119 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: basic responsibilities for governing the country, sending these bills through 120 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 3: the House to get them to the Senate so ultimately 121 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: they can get to the President's desk and deliver much 122 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 3: needed funding to our troops, to our veterans, to border security, 123 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 3: to many of the issues that they make political points about. Well, look, 124 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 3: we're not going to get funding for our border if 125 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 3: the Republicans can't even get these funding bills out of 126 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 3: a Republican controlled House. So, sadly, there is a lot 127 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 3: of recognition that more than likely we're headed for a 128 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 3: shutdown as a result of this just totally factionalized Republican leadership. 129 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: Do you think it's. 130 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,760 Speaker 1: Also more than likely that someone within the Biden administration 131 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 1: will be impeached by this Congress? 132 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: Again, I think that Speaker McCarthy knows that that's not responsible, 133 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 3: that that's not responsible governing to just make up a 134 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 3: political case for impeaching someone. I mean, we're not talking 135 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 3: about a president who tried to overturn a democratic election here, 136 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: We're talking about grievances over exactly how the border is 137 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,039 Speaker 3: being managed, which of course there's a lot of debate 138 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 3: about all over the country, not only on both sides 139 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 3: of the Hill and Washington, So this is not a 140 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 3: good thing to do. I think that it was interesting 141 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 3: when I think it was Lauren Bobert, representative from Colorado, 142 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 3: brought up an ampeacement resolution. It was the Republican leadership 143 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 3: that quickly tried to shove it aside and not deal 144 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: with it because they don't want to have to face 145 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 3: all of this trouble when they can't even fulfill the 146 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 3: basic responsibilities of governing, like passing appropriations or funding bills. 147 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 3: But the reality is that that you know, Kevin McCarthy's 148 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 3: not fully in charge here, he needed the votes of 149 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 3: people like Marjorie Taylor Green extremists in the Republican Party 150 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: in order to get the speakership, and he may need 151 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 3: their votes to hold onto it. 152 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 1: And finally, Congressman, if I could also just ask you 153 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: on the news of today, in regard to the economy, 154 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: the cooling and inflation data we have seen, it does 155 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: not seem that the President's approval rating is changing, even 156 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: as the economic trajectory would be theoretic improving. In regard 157 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,000 Speaker 1: to how it reflects on the administration, how should the 158 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 1: Democratic Party, how should President Biden go about bridging that 159 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: divide between what people are feeling, what perceptions are, and 160 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: what the data is saying. 161 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 3: Well, we need to view a much better job of 162 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 3: really just connecting the dots here and explaining to the 163 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: American people that there are a lot of political talking 164 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,120 Speaker 3: points out there, but the fact of the matter is 165 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 3: that our economy is doing really well recovering from inflation. 166 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 3: It's because of the economic stimulus overseen by the Biden 167 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: administration that we came out of the pandemic stronger than 168 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 3: almost any country on Earth. It's because of their great 169 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 3: leadership on national security issues like Ukraine and China, that 170 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: we have a plan and aggressive plan to actually prevent 171 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,559 Speaker 3: war with these countries. There's nothing that would be more 172 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,160 Speaker 3: devastating to our economy than a war. And it's because 173 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: we oppose things like the Republican effort to implement a 174 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 3: new round of Trump tax cuts canned out to the 175 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,240 Speaker 3: wealthy at the expense of the middle class. That we 176 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:03,439 Speaker 3: have long term prospects that look pretty good going forward, 177 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 3: but we need to tell this story. I mean, thank you, 178 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 3: just to kind of connect this back to the beginning 179 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: of the interview. I just came back from Eastern Europe, 180 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:11,839 Speaker 3: and one of the things that's true in Eastern Europe 181 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 3: the consists on the ground, and we heard it from 182 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 3: the President of Taiwan when we met with her in California, 183 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 3: is there's almost nothing we can do to better to 184 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 3: tour a war with China than supporting Ukraine. 185 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 2: That that's actually they're actually really. 186 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 3: Committed connected, even though they're very different parts of the globe. 187 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 3: We got to tell that story and explain it to 188 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 3: the American people, frankly better than we've been doing today. 189 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 4: All Right. 190 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: Democratic Congressman in Massachusetts Seth Milton, thank you very much 191 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: for your time this evening. We appreciate it.