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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at breaking points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give you, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 3: Coverage that is possible.

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Speaker 2: If you like what we're all about, it just means

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Speaker 2: the absolute world to have your support. But enough with that,

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Speaker 2: let's get to the show.

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Speaker 1: More scrutiny coming for Harvard University's admissions policy. Let's go

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Speaker 1: and put this up on the screen for the New

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Speaker 1: York Times. The headline here is Education Department opens civil

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Speaker 1: rights inquiry into Harvard's legacy admissions and inquiry and admissions

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Speaker 1: preference for family of alumni and donors began after the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court's decision last month limiting affirmative action. So the

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Speaker 1: tld R here is basically, listen, you all know what

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Speaker 1: happened to the Supreme Court decision. That's a no more

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Speaker 1: affirmative action, which considers race as a class. You can

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Speaker 1: consider it in individual circumstances. Harvard was part of what

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Speaker 1: led to that case getting the Supreme Court, and specifically

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Speaker 1: their treatment of aations in their admissions process. And so

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Speaker 1: now in the wake of that, the Education Apartment is saying, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: if we're ruling out affirmative action, what about the incredible

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Speaker 1: preferences that are given to the wealthy and specifically through

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Speaker 1: the legacy admissions process. I actually did a whole monologue

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Speaker 1: on this earlier this week because there's new research about

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Speaker 1: exactly how much this matters in terms of the children

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Speaker 1: of the very wealthy, not even one percent, like the

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Speaker 1: point one percent. What a massive boost they get into

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Speaker 1: admissions into top schools like Harvard and the other ivys

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Speaker 1: through the legacy process. It gave them something like an

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Speaker 1: eight times advantage over your average student. And with regard

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Speaker 1: to Harvard, they have some specific numbers here which are

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Speaker 1: pretty wild. So they say Harvard gives preference to applicants

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Speaker 1: who are recruited athletes, legacies and not just you know,

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Speaker 1: so you know you are the child of someone who

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Speaker 1: also went to Harvard, relatives of donors and children of

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Speaker 1: faculty and staff. As a group, they make up less

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Speaker 1: than five percent of applicants, but around thirty percent of

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Speaker 1: those who are admitted each year. And there is you know,

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Speaker 1: because wealth has been concentrated among white people in this

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Speaker 1: country for a long time. That means about sixty seven

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Speaker 1: point eight percent of these applicants who are admitted are

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Speaker 1: white according to court papers. So you've got a wealth

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Speaker 1: privilege here that also translates into disproportionate number of white people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely wild.

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Speaker 2: So for applicants with legacy status at schools where they

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Speaker 2: are legacies, you have a thirty seven percent admissions rate

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Speaker 2: for elite colleges. When they apply to a similar school

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Speaker 2: where they're not a legacy, the application is eleven percent accessful,

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Speaker 2: So you have almost a one in four or sorry,

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Speaker 2: a four out of ten chance of actually getting in

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Speaker 2: if you're a legacy, and only one out of ten

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Speaker 2: if you aren't. Now, for non legacy applicants, the acceptance

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Speaker 2: rate at the same school is nine point five percent.

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Speaker 2: So you can see there's relative parity for the person

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Speaker 2: who's applying to the similar school when they don't have

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Speaker 2: legacy status. But it's just astronomical really whenever it comes

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Speaker 2: to the actual legacy ones for elite colleges. And then

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Speaker 2: the also, as you were alluding to, I would actually

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Speaker 2: point more at this about the distribution of parental income

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Speaker 2: for legacy admissions, some twenty nine percent are in the

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Speaker 2: top one percent of household twenty nine percent of legacy applicants,

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Speaker 2: the thirty six percent are in the ninety fifth to

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Speaker 2: the ninety nine percent.

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Speaker 3: And we're not talking here just about income. We're talking

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Speaker 3: about wealth.

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Speaker 2: And so to be in the top one percent or

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Speaker 2: the top five percent or whatever of wealth in this

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Speaker 2: country is a ton of that is millions of dollars

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Speaker 2: in networth.

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Speaker 1: So the inquiry is specifically going to look into allegations

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Speaker 1: by three different liberal groups that Harvard's legacy admissions process

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Speaker 1: discriminates against black, Hispanic, and Asian applicants in favor of

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Speaker 1: white and wealthy students who are less qualified. So that's

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Speaker 1: where the race numbers come in to play here. As

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Speaker 1: they're saying, listen, we're being discriminated against. This is basically,

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Speaker 1: and I think this is accurate, legacy admissions are basically

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Speaker 1: affirmative action for rich white people.

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Speaker 4: So that's what the Education Department is looking into.

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Speaker 1: They go on to say in this article that their

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Speaker 1: Office of Civil Rights has powerful enforcement authority that could

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Speaker 1: eventually lead to a settlement with Harvard or trigger a

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Speaker 1: lengthy legal battle like the one that led to the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court's decision to severely limit race conscious admissions last month,

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Speaker 1: reversing eight decades long approach that had increased chances for

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Speaker 1: black students in those from other minority groups.

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Speaker 4: So that could be the end case here.

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Speaker 1: You could end up with this one in front of

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court as well, And my recollection is one

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Speaker 1: of the justices.

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Speaker 4: It might have been.

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Speaker 1: Gorsa specifically wrote about how about legacy admissions, how it

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Speaker 1: could potentially also be indefensible. So you may have, you know,

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Speaker 1: an interesting split on this one at the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: if it ultimately ended up there.

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Speaker 4: But I think this would be a major step in

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Speaker 4: the right direction.

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Speaker 5: Nukid.

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Speaker 3: This is what we need, real meritocracy. That's the whole

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Speaker 3: goal of the affirmative action decision. That's great, get rid

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Speaker 3: of it. There's no reason you shouldn't.

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Speaker 2: Another reason why legacies is complete BS is that you know,

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Speaker 2: the elite status these colleges have obtained has really only happened,

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Speaker 2: let's say, in the last fifty years or so. So

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Speaker 2: if your grandfather was just lucky enough to be like

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Speaker 2: a relatively wealthy, like Boston businessman, like why should your

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Speaker 2: grandson be allowed to get into based on that person's code.

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Speaker 3: It makes no sense.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, if you were one of these like

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Speaker 2: wealthy California families that went to the original Stanford School

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Speaker 2: of minds, Stanford wasn't Stanford like back then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, then you're in a fourth generation or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Again, you're literally writing on geographical luck of where your

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Speaker 2: great grandfather happened to be. So, look, I don't believe

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Speaker 2: in that. I don't think America has founded that on all.

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Speaker 2: It's effectively as like an American cast system, and that's

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Speaker 2: what my family and many others you know, want to

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Speaker 2: escape by coming to the West.

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Speaker 3: So I think it's important to get as far away

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Speaker 3: from that as pobible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's important to know too.

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Speaker 1: One of the interesting results that came out of the

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Speaker 1: study that we covered earlier this week is that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't actually make that much of a difference whether you

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Speaker 1: go to one of the ivy leagues or the other

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Speaker 1: of the twelve like elite private schools that they studied

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Speaker 1: in that in that particular research doesn't make a huge

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Speaker 1: difference income wise. It makes a huge difference in terms

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Speaker 1: of whether you make it into these super elite institutions.

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Speaker 1: That's where the big difference shows up. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really matters, whether we like it or not, who

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Speaker 1: gets into these schools. And the fact that you have

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Speaker 1: the you know, children of the elite who are given

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Speaker 1: a huge leg up in terms of admissions. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's part of what makes it so that you do

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Speaker 1: increasingly have this rigid class based society where now we're

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Speaker 1: in a situation where it's actually easier to withscend your

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Speaker 1: you know, whatever class status you were born with in

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Speaker 1: a lot of European countries than it is here. It

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Speaker 1: really is a direct attack on the American dream all

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Speaker 1: that would say.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, I'm even looking here.

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Speaker 2: People have talked a lot about this, specifically whenever it

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Speaker 2: comes to like the Supreme Court. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: if you if you look at the current makeup, the

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Speaker 2: current makeup of the Supreme Court leads almost entirely to

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Speaker 2: the Ivy League. They even say that even the road

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Speaker 2: to a Supreme Court clerkship starts at just three Ivy

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Speaker 2: League colleges, Harvard, Yale, and Prison. I personally know people

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Speaker 2: going through this product. If you think admission to Harvard

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Speaker 2: is crazy. Getting a clerkship is the most wild process

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Speaker 2: I have ever heard of in terms of the machinations,

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Speaker 2: the crap you have to go through. I mean definitely

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Speaker 2: pays off, don't get me wrong. You get a big

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Speaker 2: fat bonus whenever you eventually leave your clerkship from a

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Speaker 2: nice law firm. But again, you have to It starts

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Speaker 2: so far back, like when you're a twenty two year old,

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Speaker 2: and there's just no denying that.

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Speaker 3: Like, when you're that young, you ain't getting there on merit.

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Speaker 2: You're getting there based on what your parents are. They

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Speaker 2: who you know, Yeah, exactly, And it all come to

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Speaker 2: the dinners. And even when you get there, like you

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Speaker 2: got to have some serious cash because you have to

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Speaker 2: be attending and you know, networking and all of these things.

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Speaker 2: For every Barack Obama who is the Harvard Law Review

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Speaker 2: President or whatever, there are plenty of rich kids who

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Speaker 2: are all around you who end up into these positions

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Speaker 2: of power. So anyway, destroying it or at least making

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Speaker 2: that more equitable is is incredibly incredibly important, and not

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Speaker 2: equitable just in the dei way that they use that term.

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Speaker 3: All right, we'll see you guys later.

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Speaker 6: Hi, I'm Matt Stoler, author of monopoly focused substech newsletter

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Speaker 6: Big and an anti trust policy analyst.

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Speaker 7: I have a great segment for you today on this

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Speaker 7: Big Breakdown.

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Speaker 6: It's about a young YouTube based content creator and entrepreneur

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Speaker 6: with millions of fans and his new snack food business line,

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Speaker 6: and more broadly, today I'll be talking about why chocolate

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Speaker 6: bars are kind of.

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Speaker 7: Boring and what monopoly has to do with it.

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Speaker 6: Last month, the fierce new competitor of Mars and Hershey's

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Speaker 6: went on a popular YouTube channel and attacked the chocolate

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Speaker 6: deopoly for bullying rivals and buying up shelf space.

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Speaker 7: Here's what the guy said.

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Speaker 5: And like no one has been able to get in there.

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Speaker 8: It's like Hershey's, Mars, Mars, Lent and Ferraro, and it's

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Speaker 8: just it's pretty crazy. But even most of it, it's

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Speaker 8: just Hershey's and Mars. They like to do like seventy

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Speaker 8: five percent of chocolate revenue in America, and so it's

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Speaker 8: like it's kind of like monopolistic. It's like you can't

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Speaker 8: if you have a successful chocolate company, they'll just buy

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Speaker 8: you are just like fully use you don't get shell space.

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Speaker 8: And so these guys like just own all the chocolate

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Speaker 8: space and they don't innovate, like a Hershey's bar. To me,

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Speaker 8: just tastes like, yeah, it tastes very processed, and I

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Speaker 8: don't really like it at all, to be honest, I mean,

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Speaker 8: and so it's so fascinating to me, like why why

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Speaker 8: are they not new, innovative, cool, like you know, snack

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Speaker 8: products coming out more often. It's because these guys just

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Speaker 8: have all the shelf space and they have no need

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Speaker 8: to innovate. It's just you're just gonna buy what's there,

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Speaker 8: and no one's really threatening them. So to me, it's

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Speaker 8: fun to like put pressure on them and try to

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Speaker 8: get as much shelf space as possible and you know,

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Speaker 8: try to figure out what they're doing but better. It's

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Speaker 8: like the only thing in my life outside of YouTube

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Speaker 8: that I've like gotten hooked on and like on that

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Speaker 8: same high yet working on YouTube.

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Speaker 6: That was James Steven Dolinson, better known as mister Beast,

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Speaker 6: the most popular YouTube influencer in America Mister Beasts Empire,

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Speaker 6: and that's increasing what it is rivals Amazon Prime in

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Speaker 6: terms of reach. He has more than one hundred and

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Speaker 6: sixty million subscribers on his main YouTube Channe and two

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Speaker 6: hundred and seventy million across all of them. His video

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Speaker 6: recreation of the popular TV shows Squid Game, for example,

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Speaker 6: has four hundred and fifty six million views. Mister Beast

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Speaker 6: is a twenty five year old college dropout who's simply

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Speaker 6: obsessed with business strategy. His goal isn't just to be famous,

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Speaker 6: but to compete aggressively in every realm that he can

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Speaker 6: to make goods and services that please the public. He's

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Speaker 6: been obsessed with commerce since he was thirteen and started

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Speaker 6: to crack the YouTube algorithm. Now one result of his

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Speaker 6: obsession in talent is that his videos regularly exceed top

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Speaker 6: grossing movies and TV shows in terms of reach. He

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Speaker 6: uses his fame strategically asking random pedestrians whether they subscribe

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Speaker 6: to his various social media channels many do, and incorporating.

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Speaker 7: This feedback into his videos.

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Speaker 6: Over the last few years, mister Beast has branched out

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Speaker 6: into a whole bunch of other products, doing experiments such

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Speaker 6: as opening hundreds of mister Beast Burger restaurants using ghost

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Speaker 6: kitchens two years ago. While this wasn't a massive success,

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Speaker 6: they are still available in some areas and they were

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Speaker 6: a test case for his fans' interest in food products

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Speaker 6: off of the YouTube channel. Year and a half ago,

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Speaker 6: mister Beast created a line of snack foods called Feastables,

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Speaker 6: headlined by organic chocolate bars with fun, lighthearted marketing. Now,

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Speaker 6: as an aside, I know a lot of people hate marketing.

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Speaker 6: Just realized that those of us who do hate marketing

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Speaker 6: are unusual weirdos. This is actually the kind of thing

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Speaker 6: that most people like.

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Speaker 9: Which is better my chocolate bar are the one that

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Speaker 9: costs one hundred times.

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Speaker 5: More stepan or oh really, there's seconds.

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Speaker 6: Us almost from Mister Beet's expansion into chocolate led him

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Speaker 6: straight into the maw of dominant snack food companies, whose

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Speaker 6: purchase of shelf space with giant retailers keep firms like

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Speaker 6: his excluded from the market.

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Speaker 7: The power of exclusive arrangements.

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Speaker 6: Is something I've I've talked a lot about and it's

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Speaker 6: not a function of the market, It's a function of law.

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Speaker 6: Remember earlier, mister Beast cited two problems with getting into

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Speaker 6: chocolate as a small rival, acquisitions by dominant firms Hershey's

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Speaker 6: and marsh will just buy you out and then exclude

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Speaker 6: of rivals via the purchase of shelf space. They own

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Speaker 6: all the shelf space. Now, let's talk about shelf space,

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Speaker 6: which is really valuable. So in two thousand and five,

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Speaker 6: Procter and Gamble bought Gillette for fifty seven billion dollars.

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Speaker 6: It's a similar line of business. They sell in retail outlets,

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Speaker 6: razor blades and things like that. It's not that different

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Speaker 6: from chocolate. One analyst said, and here's a quote that

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Speaker 6: shelf space is diamond encrusted gold. So it's exposure to

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Speaker 6: the consumer, and everyone wants exposure to the consumer. And indeed,

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Speaker 6: monopolizing shelf space doesn't just happen in razor blades and chocolate.

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Speaker 6: It is actually pervasive across the economy. The Department of

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Speaker 6: Justice Anti Trust Division is suing Google, for example, for

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Speaker 6: buying up what is the equivalent of shelf space in search,

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Speaker 6: which is the default to your to browsers on your phone.

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Speaker 6: The Federal Trade Commission got involved in a series of

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Speaker 6: murders in the razor blade space, which we're also all

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Speaker 6: about shelf space that I do with Harry's meat monopolies business,

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Speaker 6: soface for firms, soft drinks, pesticides, pharmaceuticals, and TV streaming.

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Speaker 6: They're all actually about power and distribution. For example, the

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Speaker 6: Kroger Alberts and Supermarket merger is about shelf space. It's

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Speaker 6: about consolidating shelf space. Now controlling shelf space, in particular

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Speaker 6: bribery to control shelf space, and that's what Mars and

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Speaker 6: Hershey's are engaged in, although they wouldn't call it bribery exactly.

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Speaker 6: That's the key to creating monopolies. And there's a lot

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Speaker 6: of research on this. Now, we eat unhealthy food because

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Speaker 6: of this shelf space monopolies. We are charged too much

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Speaker 6: for medicine because of these shelf space monopolies. We get

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Speaker 6: paid less than we should because of these kinds of

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Speaker 6: shelf space driven monopolies, and we have less credible information

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Speaker 6: about our world because of these shelf space monopolies. Indeed,

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Speaker 6: it's not too extreme to say that one of the

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Speaker 6: core social problems in America fostering everything from obesity to

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Speaker 6: the dominance of big tech, is control of shelf space,

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Speaker 6: of what is put in front of us as a.

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Speaker 7: Consumer, and who controls that.

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Speaker 6: So the collusive deal that mister Beast encountered between big

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Speaker 6: suppliers and big retailers, well, it makes sense from the

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Speaker 6: perspective of a big business. It's good for the dominant

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Speaker 6: chocolate incumbents who get to box out rivals like mister

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Speaker 6: Beast and a lot of us other smaller entities. But

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Speaker 6: it's also good for retail incumbents, who get better prices

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Speaker 6: from Hershey's and Mars than independent stores that compete with them.

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Speaker 6: It's bad, however, for people like you and me, for

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Speaker 6: everyone else. Now here's the thing that's kind of astonishing

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Speaker 6: about this situation, and about mister Beasts going on YouTube

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Speaker 6: and saying exactly what he did. Agreements like this, the

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Speaker 6: ones between Hershey, Mars and retailers are illegal, and they

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Speaker 6: have been illegal since. A law banning control of shelf

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Speaker 6: space through these kickbacks, called the Robins Patman Act, was

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Speaker 6: signed into law by President Franklin dell Or Roosevelt in

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Speaker 6: nineteen thirty six. Now, at that time, the law was

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Speaker 6: meant to stop the same kind of business behavior then

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Speaker 6: being used by a different company called the A and P.

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Speaker 7: Grocery Giant, which was the original Walmart.

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Speaker 6: In my newsletter at the Big Newsletter dot Com, I

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Speaker 6: cite this passage, which highlights a section of the law

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Speaker 6: that says middlemen can't pay or be paid to exclude rivals.

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Speaker 6: The law is still on the books and it would

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Speaker 6: seem to indict all the games played by retailers. So

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Speaker 6: why is mister Beasts encountering exclusionary behavior. Well, enforcers stopped

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Speaker 6: enforcing this law in the nineteen seventies and nineteen eighties

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Speaker 6: as part of the reversal of the traditional American policy

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Speaker 6: frame against monopolies. They also stopped enforcing anti merger law.

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Speaker 6: So that gets to the other thing that that Misterbeast

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Speaker 6: was talking about.

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Speaker 7: Now, why do they do this?

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Speaker 6: Well, one key argument for not enforcing this law was

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Speaker 6: that the new techies and then eventually the Internet made

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Speaker 6: fights over shelf space irrelevant since you can sell things

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Speaker 6: through mail order, through websites and get around retail bottlenecks,

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Speaker 6: so you know, there's plenty of competition, or so said.

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Speaker 6: The argument that, clearly though, isn't true. After all, it's

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Speaker 6: impossible to find someone with more expertise in the Internet

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Speaker 6: and Internet marketing than mister Bees and he's complaining about

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Speaker 6: the shelf space bottleneck.

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Speaker 7: There's good news today.

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Speaker 6: There's a whole series of small business groups, from the

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Speaker 6: National Grocers Association to the National Association of Convenience Stores

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Speaker 6: to the National Beer Wholesalers Association. And these actually aren't

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Speaker 6: just small businesses. They're small, medium, and even some large businesses,

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Speaker 6: just not as big as Walmart or Amazon. These guys

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Speaker 6: are actually lobbying for the enforcement of the Robinson Patman

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Speaker 6: Act and other rules against exclusionary practices. So here's an

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Speaker 6: ad by one of these trade associations of smaller and

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Speaker 6: medium sized stores playing to try to influence policymakers to

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Speaker 6: bring back enforcement of this law.

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Speaker 5: This is the only place that you can buy fresh

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Speaker 5: groceries for twenty to thirty miles.

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Speaker 10: Independent grocers are the backbone of countless communities, but big

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Speaker 10: chains are using their market share to squeeze suppliers and

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Speaker 10: box out competition. Americans face higher prices, less choice, and

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Speaker 10: access to fresh food. Existing antitrust laws have been ignored

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Speaker 10: for a generation. It's time for a change.

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Speaker 5: That's the reason all these laws exists.

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Speaker 11: We just want our fair show.

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Speaker 10: Tell the FTC, protect American families, revive the Robinson Patman Act.

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Speaker 6: Another good sign is that the Federal Trade Commission, under

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Speaker 6: thirty four year old Chair Lena Kahn and several other

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Speaker 6: commissioners alv Ro, Meadoya and Becka Kelly Slaughter. They're actually

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Speaker 6: trying to resurrect the Robinson Patmanact.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 6: Con is exquisitely aware of the problems that mister Beast cites.

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Speaker 6: In fact, in an article for Time Magazine that Con

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Speaker 6: wrote ten years ago when she was a young journalist,

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Speaker 6: she described the candy oliga and how it uses control

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Speaker 6: of yes shelf space to effectively make bringing any new

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Speaker 6: candy into mainstream markets extremely difficult. Now, mister Beast will

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Speaker 6: get into the market since his brand and distribution capacity

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Speaker 6: is so powerful, but it's much harder than it should

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Speaker 6: be for him. And if it's this hard for him,

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Speaker 6: then imagine all the other innovators that are really good

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Speaker 6: at making candy but maybe not that great at making

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Speaker 6: YouTube videos, that are finding it impossible or you know,

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Speaker 6: don't consider it, and then enjoy the endless see of

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Speaker 6: boring Hershey bars, thanks for watching this big breakdown on

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Speaker 6: the Breaking Points channel. If you'd like to know more

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Speaker 6: about big business and how economy really works, you could

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Speaker 6: sign up by going to the link in the description

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Speaker 6: below and taking a look at my market power focused newsletter.

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Speaker 7: Big Thanks and have a good one.

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Speaker 12: Hi, a Maximilian Alvarez. I'm the editor in chief of

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Speaker 12: the Real News Network and host of the podcast Working People,

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Speaker 12: and this is the art of class war.

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Speaker 5: On Breaking Points.

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Speaker 12: On September fourteenth, last year, right here on Breaking Points,

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Speaker 12: just days before we were set to potentially see the

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Speaker 12: first national rail shutdown in this country in thirty years,

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Speaker 12: I interviewed Michael Paul Lindsay the Second, a locomotive engineer

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Speaker 12: for Union Pacific. Paul is a military veteran who has

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Speaker 12: worked for the past seventeen years as a trained conductor

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Speaker 12: and then as an engineer based out of Pocatello, Idaho.

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Speaker 12: After largely ignoring the long brewing crisis on the nation's

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Speaker 12: freight rail system for months and even years, when corporate

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Speaker 12: media finally started covering the national rail dispute that was

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Speaker 12: playing out last year between the class won rail carriers

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Speaker 12: and the twelve unions representing over one hundred thousand rail workers,

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Speaker 12: their coverage was predictably chock full of rail industry spokespeople,

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Speaker 12: business class serving pundits, pearl clutching economists warning about the

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Speaker 12: damage or railroad strike would do, and anti union cranks

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Speaker 12: of all stripes. As someone who had been interviewing countless

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Speaker 12: railroad workers all year for the Real News and for

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Speaker 12: my podcast Working People.

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Speaker 5: And even here on Breaking Points.

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Speaker 12: It was frankly maddening for me to see how difficult

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Speaker 12: it was to initially get other outlets to talk to

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Speaker 12: actual workers and hear their side of the story. But

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Speaker 12: I also saw how much of an impact it made

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Speaker 12: when a handful of brave rank and file workers, particularly

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Speaker 12: those affiliated with the Crosscraft Solidarity group railroad Workers United,

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Speaker 12: at great risk to themselves and their jobs, spoke out

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Speaker 12: publicly about how Wall Street greed and corporate greed had

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Speaker 12: destroyed the rail industry for the sake of record profits.

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Speaker 12: They had run railroad workers into the ground, damaged our

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Speaker 12: economy and our vital component of our supply chain, and

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Speaker 12: endangered communities like.

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Speaker 5: East Palestine, Ohio. Paul was one of those workers.

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Speaker 12: Through his popular TikTok channel, through interviews with media outlets,

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Speaker 12: and through op eds written for industry publications like Railway Age,

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Speaker 12: Paul has exposed with a veteran railroaders insight and with

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Speaker 12: a deep clear love for the industry, that he had

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Speaker 12: devoted his life to the destructive business and labor practices

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Speaker 12: of Union Pacific and the other Class one rail carriers.

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Speaker 5: When we hear the term.

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Speaker 12: Whistleblower, we tend to think of names like Daniel Elsberg,

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Speaker 12: Mark Felt aka Deep Throat, Chelsea Manning, Edward Snowden, Julian Assange,

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Speaker 12: heroes who have risked their freedom and even their lives

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Speaker 12: to expose government lies, abuses of power, and state secrets

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Speaker 12: that the public has a right to know about. But

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Speaker 12: there are actually a range of federal statutes designed to

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Speaker 12: protect those who blow the whistle on their employers as well,

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Speaker 12: especially when those employers are breaking the law and or

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Speaker 12: endangering their workers and the public. And frankly, any way

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Speaker 12: you slice it, Paul is a whistleblower, and for his

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Speaker 12: whistle blowing, after seventeen years of dedicated service and good

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Speaker 12: standing with the company, Paul was recently fired by Union Pacific.

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Speaker 12: To talk about all of this and more, I'm honored

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Speaker 12: to be joined on the art of class war once

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Speaker 12: again by Michael Paul Lindsay the second Paul is great

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Speaker 12: to see you again, brother, although I wish more than

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Speaker 12: anything that we were meeting under less despicable circumstances, And

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Speaker 12: I just want to start by saying from all of

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Speaker 12: us here at breaking points that we are sending all

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Speaker 12: of our love and solidarity to you at this incredibly

438
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 12: difficult time.

439
00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 13: Well, it's great to hear from you again.

440
00:22:59,160 --> 00:22:59,400
Speaker 7: Max.

441
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:03,240
Speaker 14: Always joy doing segments with you, and you do a

442
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 14: fantastic job of spotlighting the issues that need to be

443
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,440
Speaker 14: discussed for the sake of labor and for the country

444
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 14: and for the businesses that rely on you know, the

445
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 14: services of the railroad. You know everyone that the consumers

446
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 14: that rely on it. I appreciate you taking your time

447
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,440
Speaker 14: for this. Max.

448
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 12: Right back at you, brother, and you know, let's we

449
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,639
Speaker 12: got a lot to dig in here too, here, and

450
00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,600
Speaker 12: I know you've got a lot going on, so I

451
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,520
Speaker 12: don't want to keep you too long. So let's start

452
00:23:31,960 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 12: by reflecting on your seventeen years working on the railroads.

453
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:40,399
Speaker 12: Talk to us about why you started working on the

454
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,040
Speaker 12: rails and what that work was like. And then let's

455
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 12: talk about what you and I have talked about on

456
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 12: my podcast and previous segments. Let's talk about how you

457
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:54,920
Speaker 12: have seen firsthand the industry change over your seventeen years

458
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:59,280
Speaker 12: working for Union Pacific as railroad executives and their Wall

459
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 12: Street sharehold holders pushed these top down profit maximizing policies

460
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 12: to be implemented across the rail system. How did that

461
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 12: change your work and why did you feel compelled to

462
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 12: start speaking out about this publicly.

463
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,440
Speaker 14: Let's see so the first part, what it was like

464
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 14: initially starting out, Why I started at the railroad.

465
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 13: I always wanted to work for the railroad.

466
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 14: I always loved the rail industry ever since I was

467
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 14: a kid, and I loved trains. I started getting involved

468
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 14: in learning about the industry and how it works from

469
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,720
Speaker 14: a very young age. It wasn't just liking trains themselves,

470
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 14: but I wanted to see the industry expand and succeed.

471
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 14: And you know, as a kid looking back seeing the

472
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,719
Speaker 14: merger movement growing up at the time and seeing all

473
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 14: these paint schemes of railroads that were now merged into

474
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 14: larger and larger and larger monopolies, not realizing at the

475
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 14: time that I'd never see something like this again, and

476
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 14: that it was major, it was historic, and it was

477
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 14: going to affect my career going forward. But I finally

478
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 14: got my opportunity after I got back from deployment in

479
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,440
Speaker 14: two thousand and six in the Marine Corps and hired

480
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,200
Speaker 14: on in California in the Bay Area, and it was Yeah,

481
00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 14: I was about the proudest moment of my life, and

482
00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 14: it took.

483
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 13: The standards were very, very high back then. They really.

484
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 14: They really tried to make sure that you were going

485
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 14: to conduct yourself in a way that was safe, because

486
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,880
Speaker 14: bottom line, safety was really the biggest important factor because

487
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 14: they knew they couldn't run a profitable railroad if it

488
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:49,800
Speaker 14: wasn't safe. And they had one.

489
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:51,040
Speaker 13: Hundred plus years.

490
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 14: Of figuring that out of chopping off people's arms and

491
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,720
Speaker 14: limbs and killing people over the years in the eighteen

492
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 14: hundreds to finally create a safe environment. Well, so then

493
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 14: you ask how I've seen the industry change, and with

494
00:26:10,760 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 14: the Wall Street Wall Street consolidation and the desire for

495
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 14: more with less, there's been less emphasis on things that

496
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,359
Speaker 14: we would consider very basic, like maintenance.

497
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:30,160
Speaker 13: Things that industries like the like the aviation.

498
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 14: Industry wouldn't dream of cutting because federal regulators would just

499
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:35,879
Speaker 14: come down like a ton of bricks on them. But

500
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 14: something that we all started to start to notice is

501
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:43,560
Speaker 14: that especially when it cut when it came to maintenance,

502
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:47,359
Speaker 14: if they had a train that was running out of

503
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 14: town that was long, they keep they keep increasing the

504
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 14: length of these trains, and it creates problems for a

505
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,479
Speaker 14: terminal if you have multiple trains coming through a terminal.

506
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 14: But by god, they've got to get there for teen

507
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 14: thousand foot monstrosity out of there, and it's blocking every

508
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 14: single main line in the terminal. Well, it doesn't matter

509
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 14: that maybe there's some brake shoes that need to be replaced.

510
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 14: We can just send that on and kick it down

511
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 14: the road to the next terminal. And then it gets

512
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 14: to the next terminal and they've got their fourteen thousand

513
00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,400
Speaker 14: foot train they need to build, and they're like, well,

514
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 14: we can't do it here, kick it on to the

515
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 14: next terminal, and then you know, cutting staff, cutting the numbers.

516
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 14: The numbers are people doing the work so that even

517
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 14: if they wanted to do it, there's not enough people

518
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,760
Speaker 14: there on hand, because if they do not make their

519
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 14: departure time numbers, then it's going to make their lives miserable.

520
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 13: They're going to hear it on the conference call. I've seen.

521
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,359
Speaker 14: A major stray away from caring about safety, and it

522
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:55,560
Speaker 14: almost seems like it's a calculated cost analysis, like they figure, well,

523
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 14: if we have a toxic derailment, that poisons a river.

524
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 13: It's only going to cost this much.

525
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 14: But if we managed to run fourteen thousand foot trains

526
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 14: for three years leading up to it, we're still going

527
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 14: to make profit even after paying out these people.

528
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 13: They don't care.

529
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 5: So no, they clearly don't.

530
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 12: I mean, like and just like, East Palestine is a

531
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 12: perfect example, right like I mean, I am begging folks,

532
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,520
Speaker 12: go to the real news, go to my podcast. I

533
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 12: have not only spoken with railroad workers about East Palestine.

534
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 12: I've interviewed residents living in and around Ease Palestine. They

535
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 12: have been completely abandoned. They can't go home, They and

536
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 12: their kids are continuously sick, they can't drink their water.

537
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 12: They're not getting the help that they need from their

538
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 12: local or federal governments, and their sure as hell not

539
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 12: getting the help that they need from Norfolk Southern. And

540
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 12: yet their lives have been completely upended. There is no

541
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 12: normal to go back to for them. This is their normal.

542
00:28:52,160 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 12: That is what they have told me. And yet, to

543
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 12: make Paul's point, that is just a line item on

544
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 12: Norfolk Southern's like budget. That is just like, okay, yeah,

545
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 12: the cleanup's going to cost this much. The negative publicity

546
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 12: is going to cost this much. But ultimately the destructive

547
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 12: practices that Paul is talking about, making the trains longer,

548
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 12: making them heavier, having fewer people working on the trains,

549
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 12: having fewer people checking the track, checking the cars, fewer

550
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 12: people checking the signals in the dispatch office, trying to

551
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:28,080
Speaker 12: replace human maintenance work with technology like hotbox detectors, which

552
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 12: Paul has exposed the flaws in through his popular TikTok,

553
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 12: and in fact, that was a big reason why Union

554
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 12: Pacific fired him. We're going to get to that in

555
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 12: a second, but I'm just trying to kind of like

556
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 12: refresh everyone's memory about what Paul and I talked about

557
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 12: in September, what we at breaking points were talking about

558
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 12: all throughout the contract dispute on the railroads last year,

559
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 12: while all of this was happening, while staff across the

560
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 12: rail system has been getting cut.

561
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 5: Year after year after year.

562
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,280
Speaker 12: The Class one freight rail carriers have eliminated thirty percent

563
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 12: of their workforce since twenty fifteen alone. And so when

564
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 12: you cut that many people, and you take all of

565
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,000
Speaker 12: that risk on of trains derailing, of workers getting exhausted

566
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 12: and run into the ground, and workers are reportedly quitting

567
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 12: in record numbers. You are inevitably going to have catastrophes

568
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 12: like East Palestine. You are going to have over a

569
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,520
Speaker 12: thousand derailments around the country like we average here in

570
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 12: the United States every year.

571
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 5: And the way that everything played.

572
00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:29,520
Speaker 12: Out last year between scab Joe Biden and Democrats and

573
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 12: Republicans in Congress forcing railroad workers to accept a deal

574
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 12: they did not want, they effectively endorsed all of the

575
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 12: practices that Paul is describing here that have taken over

576
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,280
Speaker 12: the railroads for the sake of Wall Street and executive profits.

577
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 12: Because let us not forget while all of this is happening,

578
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 12: the express goal is to maximize profit, and the railroads

579
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 12: have been successful there, even though we are moving less

580
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 12: freight than we should be, even though shippers who have

581
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 12: to use the rails are pissed off by the high

582
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 12: prices and declining quality of service, even though rail workers

583
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 12: like Paul are losing years off their lives from working

584
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 12: under draconian attendance policies and workloads and having fewer people

585
00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 12: to help around. All of that has contributed to the

586
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:17,880
Speaker 12: railroads being more profitable than they've ever been. Stock buybacks,

587
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 12: shareholder dividends, executive pay have all gone through the roof,

588
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 12: while workers, consumers, and members of the public like the

589
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 12: resident of East Palestine are getting screwed by this.

590
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 5: And that is what Paul was blowing the whistle on again.

591
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 12: Through his TikTok channel, through interviews, through his own writing,

592
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 12: you can see and hear how much he loves this

593
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 12: industry and how much how worried he has been about

594
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 12: where this is all headed. And we saw in East

595
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,400
Speaker 12: Palestine where it is all headed. And instead of being

596
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 12: rewarded for that, instead of being commended for being a

597
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 12: hero and a patriot and doing a vital public service,

598
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 12: Paul was targeted and fired by Union Pacifics. So let's

599
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:00,040
Speaker 12: talk about that, Paul, while I still got you to

600
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 12: us about the conditions of your firing. What happened, what

601
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:08,080
Speaker 12: reasons did the company give, and what does Union Pacific's

602
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 12: treatment of you say about the industry as a whole.

603
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 13: Right now, we'll answer your last question first.

604
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 14: What it says about the industry as a whole is

605
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 14: this is an industry that feels that they're untouchable, that

606
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 14: they will not be held accountable, which, of course Joe

607
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:28,640
Speaker 14: Biden when he broke our legitimate labor strike and then

608
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 14: supported work stoppages by the companies themselves. They were emboldened

609
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 14: that they are untouchable. So the conditions leading up to

610
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 14: it really surrounded East Palestine. Because I've been making videos

611
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 14: about the railroad for a very long time, I had

612
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 14: millions of views, and I decided to make one on

613
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 14: East Palestine and the detectors. And one of the big

614
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 14: things that's come out now is that those detectors are

615
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 14: not actually regulated by anybody. The FRA doesn't regulate them,

616
00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 14: even though they totally should be a regulated device.

617
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 13: So if anything came out legislatively, that should be it.

618
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,920
Speaker 14: And I made a video about East Palestine and they

619
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 14: put that and four others into an investigation against me

620
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 14: and terminated me based on those five videos.

621
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 13: But it's interesting it wasn't local management.

622
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:22,640
Speaker 14: They were told, oh, we got a call from Omaha

623
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,520
Speaker 14: telling me to telling them to pull them out of service,

624
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 14: you know, to pull me out of service.

625
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,080
Speaker 13: And I just had a good, full work day and

626
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:31,080
Speaker 13: they came up and said.

627
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 14: Yeah, Omaha, Omaha called, We've got to pull you out

628
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,320
Speaker 14: of service and escort you off the property. And then

629
00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 14: they held a formal investigation over it, and then to

630
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 14: make matters worse, to add insult to injury another one

631
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 14: of those. These companies are untouchable. So I believe that

632
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 14: anyone in labor that was forced back to work against

633
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 14: their will without a contract that they voted on would

634
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 14: agree that we feel like slaves to the company, slaves

635
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 14: to the attendance policy and everything else. And I mentioned

636
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 14: that in the investigation, and then they came back and

637
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,400
Speaker 14: investigated me again for using that word to describe myself

638
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 14: and said that apparently that's racially discriminated. So then they

639
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 14: fired me again, defamed my character and tried to and

640
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,640
Speaker 14: basically fired me again for using that word. And this

641
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 14: is a company that openly, willingly discriminated against people of

642
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 14: color for you know, lots and lots of years over

643
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 14: their history. It's really amazing that they would have that

644
00:34:33,640 --> 00:34:35,120
Speaker 14: moral high ground to think that they.

645
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 15: Should do that.

646
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 14: And then they came back and used another video I

647
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,160
Speaker 14: made about the SEMA derailment in California and fired me again.

648
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 14: So I've never heard of this, and no one in

649
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 14: the Union has ever heard of this, where they wanted

650
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 14: me so bad they held three formal investigations against me

651
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 14: to fire me to silence me. And my end goal

652
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 14: of this is legislative protection for whistleblowers, you know, really,

653
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,840
Speaker 14: because I believe that these whistleblower protections that we do

654
00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 14: have were created in an era before social media, and

655
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 14: the railroad is saying that they don't believe that I

656
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 14: have any protection because I was using social media. Well,

657
00:35:21,440 --> 00:35:23,720
Speaker 14: if I can be the one that sets the precedent

658
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 14: that gets people to be able to have a voice

659
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 14: out there, to speak out against their employers and to

660
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 14: speak out against companies when they are openly pressing workers,

661
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 14: when they're open to openly violating safety, you know, then

662
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 14: then it'll all be worth it.

663
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 5: Jesus man, I'm I'm barely containing.

664
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 12: My rage here because this is just so egregious, so ridiculous,

665
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,359
Speaker 12: and so unforgivable. Right, like two things I want to say,

666
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 12: and we're going to wrap up in a second, but

667
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 12: like one, it is it is, you know, big posturing

668
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 12: from a company like union person to suddenly get woke

669
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 12: and say like, oh, this railroad worker is racist because

670
00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 12: he described himself as feeling like a slave to the company.

671
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,759
Speaker 5: So we're going to go after him for that.

672
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 12: We're not going to do anything about the conditions that

673
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,760
Speaker 12: make him and other workers feel like slaves to the company. Instead,

674
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 12: we're going to invoke, you know, like this, this kind

675
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 12: of pseudo racial justice language to discipline and silence our workers.

676
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 12: And I would just say that is bullshit, and we

677
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 12: see you Union Pacific. And you know, another thing I

678
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,360
Speaker 12: want to emphasize, because there were also developments on the

679
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:38,840
Speaker 12: investigation into the derailment in East Palestine. Recently, hearings that

680
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 12: were held in East Palestine where railroaders like Jason Cox

681
00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 12: testified about what Paul described in his TikTok about the

682
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 12: hot box detectors. We don't have to go into all that,

683
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 12: but these are the machines on the track that are

684
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 12: supposed to detect if you have, among other things, an

685
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 12: overheated bearing like the one that caused the derailment in

686
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 12: East Palestine. Supposed to relay that information to the crew

687
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 12: so they can stop in time and check it. That

688
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,960
Speaker 12: did not happen in time for the crew to stop

689
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,359
Speaker 12: the train. And it turns out there are a number

690
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 12: of reasons for that, because, as Paul said, those hotbox

691
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 12: detectors would have been which have been implemented on the

692
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 12: rails explicitly to replace people like the car men and

693
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 12: the maintenance of way guys who are checking the cars

694
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 12: in the track with their eyes, with their expertise, to

695
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 12: say that is not safe to go on the rails.

696
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 12: The rail carriers say, well, let's just automate it and

697
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,360
Speaker 12: it'll all be fine. Clearly, in East Palestine it was

698
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 12: not fine. But the thing on the point I'm trying

699
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,399
Speaker 12: to make is that in those hearings that were held

700
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 12: in East Palestine just the last month I believe, or

701
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 12: at the end of June, Norfolk Southern admitted that, Yeah,

702
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 12: the federal government does not set the standards for what

703
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 12: constitutes like a threat level to report to the crew.

704
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 12: It's all determined internally by the rail carriers themselves. They're

705
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 12: the ones who determine whether or not a signal or

706
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 12: a distress signal caught by one of those hotbox detectors

707
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,879
Speaker 12: rises to the level of let's relay.

708
00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:03,359
Speaker 5: This to the train.

709
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 12: As Paul described it to me on my podcast, Working People,

710
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 12: this is like if you're flying on a plane and

711
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,360
Speaker 12: there's an engine that blows out. It's like that news

712
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 12: goes to the ground control folks and they decide whether

713
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 12: or not to tell the pilot like that is insane

714
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 12: to me. So the Norfolk Southern basically admitted what Paul

715
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 12: exposed and his TikTok about the hotbox detectors, and Paul

716
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 12: has been fired.

717
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 5: By Union Pacific for that. That is not right.

718
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 12: And I could go on for days about this, But

719
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 12: our main goal here is to let people know about

720
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 12: this injustice, let people know about what whistleblowers like Paul

721
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 12: are going through, and to help build momentum to fight

722
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:44,080
Speaker 12: against this. And so with the last minute I've got you, man,

723
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:46,360
Speaker 12: I just wanted to ask how you're doing and what

724
00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 12: people out there can do to support you.

725
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:56,239
Speaker 14: Right now, I'm doing okay, just kind of traveling around,

726
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 14: spending some time with my daughter that I haven't been

727
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 14: able to doing a long time working for the railroad.

728
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,040
Speaker 13: They took a lot of my time.

729
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:06,839
Speaker 14: But the way people can support is really to keep

730
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,879
Speaker 14: talking about these companies, to not let it be in vain.

731
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:13,680
Speaker 14: Don't let the railroads hide from what they've been doing

732
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:17,400
Speaker 14: to the US economy. It'll only keep getting worse. We

733
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 14: need to pressure regulators to bring this industry to heal,

734
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 14: to bring them back under control so that it actually

735
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 14: focuses on safe transportation and not share buybacks. You know,

736
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 14: these problems, whether they be safety, whether they be poor

737
00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 14: transportation that results in higher prices at the grocery store,

738
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,759
Speaker 14: higher prices and everything else that we rely on, it'll

739
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 14: just keep getting worse until eventually, my prediction is the

740
00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 14: industry fails and they go into bankruptcy, which they don't

741
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 14: care about because they'll just ask you and I for

742
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 14: a big fat bailout and say that they're too big

743
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 14: to fail. That's going to probably be the end result

744
00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 14: with this company if we do not do something to

745
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 14: rein in the share buybacks and the obsession with more

746
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 14: with less, And that's the cursed phrase I want to

747
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 14: see removed from the industry and the corporate saying more

748
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:17,239
Speaker 14: with less or yeah, more with less where they want

749
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 14: more profit, more productivity, more everything without having to put

750
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 14: anything with anything more.

751
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 13: That's what needs to be rained in.

752
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 14: But yeah, so what you can do is don't stop

753
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 14: talking about the railroad and don't let them hide in

754
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,240
Speaker 14: the shadows. That's what they're trying to do. They're trying

755
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,440
Speaker 14: to whitewash the whole thing and get us to forget.

756
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 12: So that is Michael Paul Lindsay, the second Paul is

757
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 12: a military veteran who has worked for Union Pacific as

758
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 12: a trained locomotive conductor and engineer for the past seventeen

759
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 12: years until he was fired earlier this year by the

760
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 12: company in suspected retaliation for his whistle blowing. Thank you

761
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 12: for watching this segment with breaking points, and be sure

762
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 12: to subscribe to my news outlet, the Real News Network

763
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 12: with links in the description. See you soon for the

764
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 12: next edition of the Art of Class War. Take care

765
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 12: of yourselves, take care of each other, Solidarity forever.

766
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 16: I am here with Jeremy Corbell.

767
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 2: We are outside of the Rayburn House office building where

768
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 2: we just had the historic UFO hearing. Jeremy, you were

769
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,320
Speaker 2: seated there right behind all the witnesses. Give us the

770
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 2: biggest moments from the hearing, a little bit of the

771
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: background about what it took to actually make this possible.

772
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 16: You were instrumental in that.

773
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 17: The biggest moment of the hearing is that it happened

774
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 17: at all. This is the only time in history. I mean,

775
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 17: if people knew how many times this was tried to

776
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 17: be stopped, diminished, stalled, you heard they didn't even weren't

777
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 17: even allowed to have a skiff because there was a

778
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 17: guy there who could have put them in a skiff

779
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,000
Speaker 17: and told them all the things he couldn't say in

780
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 17: front of the public.

781
00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 16: Why don't we get into that a little bit. So

782
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 16: for a skiff, it's called.

783
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,000
Speaker 17: A sweatshot done. This is your story of government. This

784
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:59,280
Speaker 17: is his story because it's never happened before. Firsthand direct

785
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 17: eyewitness to climony with somebody who is the first whistleblower

786
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:07,000
Speaker 17: who officially went through the ICIG process. That was David Grush.

787
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 17: You've got Commander Fravor got Lieutenant Underwood, and you got Grush.

788
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 17: That is it's exceptional what happened today. And then we'll

789
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:14,400
Speaker 17: go on to the next.

790
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 16: Right, and so one of the things you're referencing.

791
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 2: A key moment of the hearing everyone is when the

792
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 2: congressmen repeatedly were talking about how they were denied access

793
00:42:22,360 --> 00:42:25,480
Speaker 2: to a special compartmentalized facility so Dave Grush could give

794
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: them specifics about this UFO program.

795
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 17: Yes, yeah, and let me tell you shouldn't be hard.

796
00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 17: I mean, I've been in them very recently. So the

797
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 17: deal is this that was intentional and that bothers me

798
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:38,560
Speaker 17: this is about transparency, So you get it right there.

799
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 17: We got a lot, so don't don't there were Adam

800
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,560
Speaker 17: bombs that would rop don't worry right right. Yeah, But

801
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 17: even with that said, from the get go, from the

802
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 17: top down, there has been an attempt and you know,

803
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,440
Speaker 17: just very logistically to stop this from happening, and I

804
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:55,920
Speaker 17: we achieved it. So I'm elated because you know, I

805
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 17: care about this truth. If it is true, I think

806
00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 17: the American public have a need to know.

807
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,480
Speaker 16: So that was one of the extraordinary moments for me.

808
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:07,479
Speaker 2: Dave Grush, Commander Fraver Ryan Grave, all of these people

809
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 2: are testifying under oath. Dave Grush made repeated and actually

810
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 2: stunning allegation.

811
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 16: So let's get into some of them.

812
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 2: One of them is that non human intelligences be in

813
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 2: possession of the United States government since the nineteen thirties.

814
00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,160
Speaker 2: That actually pre dates UFO lore. I mean, can you

815
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:25,520
Speaker 2: maybe give us some background on that and what he's

816
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:26,319
Speaker 2: talking about here.

817
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:27,600
Speaker 17: So first of all, you said, you know, I helped

818
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 17: set it up and all this. I want to be

819
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 17: very clear. The whole thing about under oath, actually we

820
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 17: had to fight for that. They all wanted to be

821
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:38,040
Speaker 17: under oath right. So that already tells you why would

822
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 17: people not want them to be under oath R right.

823
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:41,839
Speaker 11: So that was a huge achievement. That was great.

824
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:45,360
Speaker 17: Now, what you're talking about it might sound fantastical, but

825
00:43:45,480 --> 00:43:48,560
Speaker 17: that doesn't have any relevancy to whether or not it's true.

826
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:50,759
Speaker 11: Yes, if that is true, then it is true.

827
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,400
Speaker 17: And again the American public and global public have a

828
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 17: need to know that information, if true. Not a right

829
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:58,320
Speaker 17: to know, they have a need to know because it

830
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,719
Speaker 17: would have implications for what it means I mean to

831
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:02,080
Speaker 17: be human straight up.

832
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: Well, one of the fascinating things also is that Dave

833
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 2: Grush talked at certain points about non human biologics that

834
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:13,840
Speaker 2: we're in possession. He talked about theoretical studies of time travel.

835
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 2: I mean, once again, he is testifying here unders he's

836
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,960
Speaker 2: a physicist. These things may sound again fantastical to the

837
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,319
Speaker 2: general audience. He is testifying here under oath.

838
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 11: Yeah.

839
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 2: But also, Jeremy, he detailed multiple threats to his own life, yes,

840
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 2: and to other people who are around him by career

841
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 2: government and ex government officials. Can you maybe give us

842
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:34,839
Speaker 2: some insight into what he's talking about.

843
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 17: It is not my position to give insight to what

844
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 17: he's talking about. However, it is true, and I feel

845
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 17: that that will be revealed to everybody. But you know,

846
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 17: the point is, it's way beyond an individual. It's way

847
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 17: beyond one person, one siding one thing. This is a

848
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 17: symptom of what's been going on for a very long time.

849
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,960
Speaker 17: And there's been arguments that, well, why aren't these advanced

850
00:44:55,080 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 17: tech that from foreign adversarial nations we just don't know?

851
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,879
Speaker 17: Are are black projects? Some of our friends actually, oh yeah,

852
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 17: think now here's the deal.

853
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:03,799
Speaker 11: One. The UFO phenomenon is not real.

854
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 17: I was the UFO phenomenon has been here a long time. Yes, right,

855
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 17: any type of advanced technology that Commander Fravor can't tell

856
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 17: you right openly what he's doing for work right now,

857
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 17: he didn't testify to that.

858
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 11: That's a man that would know. And I'll put it

859
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 11: that way.

860
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 17: So these things that we're seeing, how they operate, it

861
00:45:23,120 --> 00:45:26,919
Speaker 17: predates our black programs, It predates the Pentagon. I did

862
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 17: provide something for Congressional record that was submitted into congressional records,

863
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,000
Speaker 17: so did George Knapp, And in that I try to

864
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:36,920
Speaker 17: detail the estimate of the situation from my perspective as

865
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,840
Speaker 17: somebody covering this with knowledge that I can't yet go

866
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 17: public with because of issues like we're having with David Grunt.

867
00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,120
Speaker 16: So this is so important for people to understand.

868
00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: He said, on multiple occasions his life was threatened, there

869
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 2: was retaliation.

870
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 13: Yes.

871
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 2: Another very interesting thing that Leslie Keen has talked about,

872
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 2: I know you've looked into as well, is about the.

873
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 16: Way that these black programs are funded.

874
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 2: Dave Grush intimated that it defectively involves DF Defense contractors

875
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,160
Speaker 2: charging the US government extra and then using that money

876
00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: to fund outside black programs, including possible crash retrieval maintenance

877
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:15,320
Speaker 2: study in which some cases even said one person was injured.

878
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 16: While that occurred.

879
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:17,480
Speaker 11: Yeah, are you surprised by that?

880
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:19,760
Speaker 16: No, but to hear it under oath.

881
00:46:19,719 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 2: To testified to the fact that the Pentagon hasn't been

882
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 2: able to pass an audit for five years in a row,

883
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: maybe this explains a little bit to some of the

884
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,680
Speaker 2: people here. That really what hit home to me just

885
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 2: on a personal level, sitting there and understanding that this

886
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: is all under oath, that this is being made on camera,

887
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 2: that your statements are being injured in the congressional record,

888
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 2: Like if they're lying, they need to be prosecuted.

889
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 16: They've actually wasted it my time, your time, like so

890
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:45,160
Speaker 16: many of our time.

891
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:47,399
Speaker 2: But I mean to put yourself in a position where

892
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 2: you could go to jail on multiple levels for coming

893
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,239
Speaker 2: forward on this, that brings a hell of a lot

894
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:53,120
Speaker 2: of weight, I think to the testimony.

895
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 11: I thank you for seeing what this is.

896
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,279
Speaker 17: What this is is a hearing to motivate, inspire, and

897
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 17: provide confidence for people who have come forward to me already,

898
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 17: people that have come forward within certain compartments within our

899
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:09,479
Speaker 17: government because a fear of reprisal and breaking from the fold,

900
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:11,960
Speaker 17: have not come forward publicly. And again I said, the

901
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,239
Speaker 17: public has a need to know. So this hearing is

902
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 17: the greatest thing that it is is it is a

903
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 17: symbol to give confidence. How David Grush is treated from

904
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,280
Speaker 17: here on out with his whistleblow or complaint, how Commander

905
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 17: fravor how Lieutenant Graves, how they are treated right now

906
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 17: by the public is what's going to gauge what the

907
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,560
Speaker 17: public will be able to learn in the future. These

908
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:36,600
Speaker 17: people are American heroes and to me, I mean I've

909
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 17: been a champion to get them here. That that's the

910
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,359
Speaker 17: thing I think Commander Favors really pissed at me from

911
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 17: time to time.

912
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 11: You know, he always blames me.

913
00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 17: You know're talking about being a past, you know, get

914
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 17: him to do things. These guys that don't want to

915
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 17: be jumping in front of cameras.

916
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: That was very clear, just so everyone knows from behind

917
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 2: the see was he did not want. It's hard in

918
00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:51,960
Speaker 2: the spotlight.

919
00:47:52,239 --> 00:47:53,879
Speaker 17: Look, he's got a job. He's going back to work

920
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 17: and jumping jumping, you know, to work the next day.

921
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 17: They all came on their own dime. They all came

922
00:47:58,160 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 17: here because of a sense of duty and maybe because

923
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:03,359
Speaker 17: I can be a past, but you know, they came

924
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:05,520
Speaker 17: because they have a sense of duty and that was

925
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,719
Speaker 17: really empowering. So what we're seeing here saga you're going

926
00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 17: to break down for everybody that listens to. You understand

927
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 17: the mechanics of it more than most journalists I know

928
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 17: that cover it. And you've covered politics. Now you've got

929
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 17: politics and UFOs. So you are in a quagmar.

930
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:21,279
Speaker 16: This is the intersection. Okay, So final question, what's next?

931
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:25,280
Speaker 2: Man, you're the guy to know many people of congressmen included,

932
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 2: they intimated they're like, hey, there's more people come in

933
00:48:28,640 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 2: this is just the first of many. I saw it

934
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,400
Speaker 2: really as the start of something, not the end of something.

935
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: You are also in a position to know a little

936
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: bit about that.

937
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 16: You don't have to give away details, but you know what,

938
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 16: are we going to learn more?

939
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 11: Don't tempt me. I'm known to have a been please day.

940
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 18: No.

941
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 11: No, here's what I can say for sure.

942
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 17: What I can't say for sure is that there are

943
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,520
Speaker 17: numerous individuals that have been verified to have worked within

944
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 17: programs of reverse engineering, of craft not of only unknown origin,

945
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 17: but craft of extreme technol logical advancement, where the Material

946
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,320
Speaker 17: Sciences Commander Fever kept saying is something we have not

947
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 17: achieved yet on the scope of humanity, and we will

948
00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:11,399
Speaker 17: not ever get there for the next one hundred two hundred.

949
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 17: I think he's being really generous with how little time

950
00:49:15,160 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 17: he thinks we might get there. Those people have already

951
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 17: been put into process to be able to feel that

952
00:49:22,840 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 17: they can come forward.

953
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:26,959
Speaker 11: That is one thing I know is going to happen.

954
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 11: I know there's going to be more hearings. Yep. This

955
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 11: is like cracking the egg.

956
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:33,839
Speaker 17: That's what we did to say, we cracked the egg,

957
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,680
Speaker 17: and now everybody has to acknowledge that it's cracked. As

958
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 17: long as we keep fighting for transparency for the right reason,

959
00:49:40,200 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 17: not using national security as a way to subvert what

960
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,799
Speaker 17: the American public has a need to know, but respecting

961
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 17: national security but not using it to subvert, then we're

962
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 17: going to make progress and we're going to all learn

963
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 17: that maybe maybe the fabric of what we understand might change.

964
00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 11: And I think that's evolution absolutely.

965
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 2: All right, Jeremy, thank you for your time. Let's let's scramble.

966
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 2: Let's make an online oka.

967
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 3: The backlash against Blackrocks.

968
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 4: All roads lead to good for Blackrocks.

969
00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 2: To your point though, about Blackrock becoming this absolute lightning.

970
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 4: Rod Desantus for example, pulling funds from.

971
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 9: Blackrocks, Blackrock getting its headquarters sex you.

972
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 4: Say here for Blackrock, an alliance with Blackrock.

973
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 9: We're talk an awful lot about Blackrock here on Breaking Points,

974
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:31,240
Speaker 9: and they're also the target of numerous conspiracy theories online.

975
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:32,680
Speaker 9: What is Blackrock?

976
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 16: This company quite literally owns the world.

977
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 10: Yeah, so Blackrock is an Organization's a company public listed

978
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:39,760
Speaker 10: on NASDAC.

979
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:42,280
Speaker 3: Blackrock runs pretty much the entire global economy.

980
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,239
Speaker 5: Well, here's the research more on who Blackrock is.

981
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 16: If you don't know that's an organization which is funded

982
00:50:48,080 --> 00:50:48,799
Speaker 16: all the same people.

983
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, so they've got all these different groups that they funded.

984
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 5: What about who's in the narrative.

985
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 9: So today we're going to dive deep into Blackrock, their

986
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,280
Speaker 9: business model, their agenda, the kinds of powers they wield,

987
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:02,800
Speaker 9: and if they do in fact control the world.

988
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,600
Speaker 18: Just a made up story, none of it's real.

989
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,920
Speaker 19: Welcome this morning, United States of black Rock. Id Damn,

990
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,280
Speaker 19: my bed shirt felt comfy. Well, we keep it moving,

991
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,919
Speaker 19: So I gotta went, hopped in the shower, cleaned myself off,

992
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,160
Speaker 19: made myself a nice cup of coffee, and I was

993
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 19: just about to go sit on the toilet when I

994
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 19: got a call from my buddy. He's like, Yo, we're

995
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 19: going on vacation. Buddy wouldn't tell me where, so I

996
00:51:35,040 --> 00:51:37,560
Speaker 19: had to quick bag and hopped on my Harley. Moved

997
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 19: down to the airport where I checked into my gate.

998
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 19: But I had enough time to go grab another cup

999
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 19: of coffee.

1000
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:43,319
Speaker 18: You know me, I keep it lit.

1001
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,800
Speaker 19: But then we hopped on our plane and shit, we

1002
00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 19: went to Disneyland.

1003
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 9: Baby, has your interest been pinked?

1004
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:49,520
Speaker 13: Well?

1005
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 9: I hit up cancel this clothing company. Who hasn't asked

1006
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 9: almost a million followers on TikTok in just a few months.

1007
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:58,799
Speaker 9: By covering Blackrock to help us separate fact from fiction

1008
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 9: when it comes to this seemingly mysterious Wall Street firm.

1009
00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:05,840
Speaker 18: When you start from who owns this company perspective, you

1010
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,279
Speaker 18: very quickly run into Blackrock because when you start looking

1011
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 18: at ownership sheets, Blackrock, Bank Guard on State Street, the

1012
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 18: Victory investment firms are at the top of all of them.

1013
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,520
Speaker 9: But before we get to anything else, the first question

1014
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 9: we have to tackle is how did Blackrock get so

1015
00:52:18,640 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 9: big while the seeds of Blackrock were actually sewn within

1016
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 9: the walls of another financial powerhouse, Blackstone. In nineteen eighty eight,

1017
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:29,080
Speaker 9: Larry Fink, along with seven others, founded Blackrock as an

1018
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,399
Speaker 9: internal asset management division within Blackstone. Within just a few months,

1019
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 9: their business had turned profitable, and by nineteen eighty nine,

1020
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 9: the group's assets had quadrupled to two point seven billion dollars.

1021
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:45,440
Speaker 9: Central to Blackrocks Meteoric Rise are two transformative innovations ETFs

1022
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:50,800
Speaker 9: and aladden. Their proprietary trading algorithm ETFs, or exchange traded funds,

1023
00:52:51,280 --> 00:52:54,719
Speaker 9: allows investors a simple and efficient way to diversify their

1024
00:52:54,800 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 9: investments while reducing risk and costs. Aladdin is Blackrocks hensive

1025
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 9: risk management system, a digital brain so to speak, that

1026
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 9: they pioneer to keep track of portfolios and manage risk

1027
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 9: by predicting how likely it is that a specific investment

1028
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 9: will fail. Today, Blackrock is the largest of the three

1029
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,960
Speaker 9: investment firms, managing nearly ten trillion dollars in assets, followed

1030
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 9: by Vanguard at roughly eight trillion and State Street at

1031
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 9: four trillion. Technically these assets do belong to investors the

1032
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 9: clients of Blackrock, but effectively speaking, Blackrock manages or owns

1033
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:32,240
Speaker 9: all of these shares. So what happens when the shares

1034
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:36,560
Speaker 9: of supposedly competing firms are owned by the same few

1035
00:53:36,680 --> 00:53:40,120
Speaker 9: investment firms, Well, it effectively creates what Harvard Business Review

1036
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 9: calls quote a different form of monopoly, which they say

1037
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 9: harms competition, consumers, and the economy. Just imagine two I

1038
00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 9: stream carts next to each other with different owners. They

1039
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:51,799
Speaker 9: would either need to lower their price or enhance their

1040
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:55,240
Speaker 9: offerings to compete for your business. But if both cards

1041
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 9: had the same owners, they would not be incentivized to

1042
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:00,399
Speaker 9: cut price because that would only result in a lower

1043
00:54:00,480 --> 00:54:03,680
Speaker 9: total profit for their investors. This kind of dynamic plays

1044
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 9: out every day in companies across all industries in the

1045
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 9: real world. Take supermarkets, for example, who are the largest

1046
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 9: shareholders of Walmart, America's largest supermarket chain, Blackrock and Vanguard.

1047
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 9: Kroger's also Blackrock and Vanguard. What about Target? You guessed it,

1048
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 9: Blackrock and Vanguard. And what's happened to food prices? We've

1049
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 9: all felt it. It's gone up, up and away. This

1050
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 9: same pattern of ownership repeats across every major industry. So

1051
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 9: what we think of as the most powerful companies in

1052
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,160
Speaker 9: the world, companies like Apple, Microsoft, Amazon, the executives at

1053
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,080
Speaker 9: these firms still have to consult with companies like Blackrock, Vanguard,

1054
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 9: and State Street before they make any major decisions since

1055
00:54:47,960 --> 00:54:50,800
Speaker 9: they have such a large share of their ownership. So

1056
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 9: the point almost isn't the fact that they own every company.

1057
00:54:55,000 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 9: It's how such a structure of concentrated institutional ownership impact

1058
00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:02,440
Speaker 9: the quality of life for ordinary people.

1059
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,560
Speaker 18: They're deeply intertwined with political power, the political.

1060
00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:09,680
Speaker 13: Powers that be.

1061
00:55:09,960 --> 00:55:12,560
Speaker 9: When we talk about power, when we talk about control,

1062
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,920
Speaker 9: there's perhaps no better evidence than being given the ability

1063
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 9: to choose winners and losers.

1064
00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:21,239
Speaker 4: What in the world is happening on Wall Street two.

1065
00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 9: You're no yields one from one ninety to one sixty six.

1066
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,320
Speaker 12: In the blink of it up the Nasdaq, everything and

1067
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:28,839
Speaker 12: more has been completely wiped out.

1068
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,920
Speaker 9: It was the worst day on Wall Street since the

1069
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:34,040
Speaker 9: crash of nineteen eighty seven. The two thousand and eight

1070
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 9: financial crisis proved to be a remarkable opportunity that propelled

1071
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:40,759
Speaker 9: Blackrock into becoming the financial titan it is today, as

1072
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 9: the firm secured uncontested contracts to take over the assets

1073
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 9: of major collapse banking institutions like Bear Stearns and AIG.

1074
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:50,360
Speaker 9: A similar thing happened again in twenty twenty, when the

1075
00:55:50,440 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 9: FED tapped Blackrock to help oversee efforts to stabilize the

1076
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 9: bond market amid the economic turmoil caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Now,

1077
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 9: they didn't get handed the keys by accident. It was

1078
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:05,439
Speaker 9: all a very carefully and methodically orchestrated plan. Over time,

1079
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:10,280
Speaker 9: there is a playbook, so to speak, campaign contributions, making

1080
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 9: friends with both major political parties, specifically targeting the House

1081
00:56:15,280 --> 00:56:19,520
Speaker 9: Financial Services Committee, the folks who could potentially cause Blackrock headaches,

1082
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 9: and of course, employing an army of professional lobbyists. Just

1083
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:25,960
Speaker 9: how high up in the US government have they been

1084
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 9: able to penetrate well. Currently, there are three Blackrock veterans

1085
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 9: with appointed positions in the Biden cabinet. Brian Diese, the

1086
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 9: former global head of sustainable Investing at Blackrock, is Biden's

1087
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:42,600
Speaker 9: chief Economic director. Michael Pyle, BlackRock's former global chief investment strategist,

1088
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 9: is Kamala Harris's chief economic advisor. Let me tell you

1089
00:56:45,719 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 9: those two positions do not require Senate confirmation, and they

1090
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 9: are actually the first duo of the modern era to

1091
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,400
Speaker 9: go from the same Wall Street investment firm to jobs

1092
00:56:54,440 --> 00:56:58,000
Speaker 9: as top economic advisors to the President and the Vice

1093
00:56:58,040 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 9: president of the United States at the same time. Wally

1094
00:57:01,239 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 9: Atayemo the former chief of staff to Blackrock CEO Larry Fink.

1095
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 9: He is now the current Deputy Treasury Secretary. And let's

1096
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 9: not forget Larry Fink, the chairman and CEO of Blackrock,

1097
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 9: is a member on the board of Trustees of the

1098
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 9: World Economic Form.

1099
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 20: Let me tell you it's not who's the President's controlling

1100
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 20: the Wall persons.

1101
00:57:29,000 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 9: Defense. This is conjecture, but it cannot be a coincidence

1102
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 9: which firm, of all firms was capped to lead the

1103
00:57:37,880 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 9: investment to rebuild Ukraine. You guessed it, Larry Fink and Blackrock.

1104
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,480
Speaker 9: Another data point. In twenty twenty one, Blackrock became the

1105
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:49,960
Speaker 9: first global asset manager licensed to start a wholly owned

1106
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 9: onshore mutual fund business in China. So do they own governments? Swell?

1107
00:57:54,880 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 9: It's hard to say exactly what goes on behind closed doors,

1108
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:02,000
Speaker 9: but I think all the evidence points to significant influence

1109
00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 9: that certainly warrants further scrutiny.

1110
00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 20: The people who are forcing these companies to bud light

1111
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:13,000
Speaker 20: themselves already have enough money. Companies like Vanguard, Blackrock, the

1112
00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,720
Speaker 20: companies that own major Stakes and Target or Disney, So

1113
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 20: with all that shareholder cloud.

1114
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 11: They can force these companies to do whatever they want.

1115
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,720
Speaker 11: They confess this is what they're doing. Behaviors are going.

1116
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 5: To have to change, and this is one thing we're

1117
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 5: asking companies.

1118
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 12: You have to force behaviors, and at Blackrock we are

1119
00:58:31,560 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 12: forcing behaviors.

1120
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:37,880
Speaker 9: Ah yesg. Environmental social governance, the woke agenda or whatever

1121
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 9: you want to call it, the idea that return on

1122
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,280
Speaker 9: capital shouldn't be the only consideration in an investment. This

1123
00:58:44,480 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 9: is definitely a complicated topic because The genesis of this

1124
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:52,080
Speaker 9: idea isn't based on indoctrination, as some of us have

1125
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 9: been led to believe, but rather it is a marketing

1126
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:59,240
Speaker 9: campaign based on deflection. It's meant to give the illusion

1127
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 9: that a pro often maximizing firm cares about more than

1128
00:59:02,720 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 9: just profit maximization. They also care about other considerations like

1129
00:59:06,920 --> 00:59:11,840
Speaker 9: the environment, diversity, sustainability, fair compensation, et cetera, et cetera.

1130
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 9: But the complication arises because there becomes this kind of

1131
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 9: unavoidable hypocrisy. Does Blackrock have this woll agenda to incentivize

1132
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,160
Speaker 9: companies to diversify the composition and expand the pool of

1133
00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:28,640
Speaker 9: talent beyond just white men. Yes, they do, not because

1134
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:32,280
Speaker 9: they care about equality, but because they are trying to

1135
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 9: deflect from the fact that they also buy up entire

1136
00:59:35,160 --> 00:59:39,840
Speaker 9: neighborhoods that will in effect eliminate the possibility for historically

1137
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 9: marginalized groups of people to claim a stake in society

1138
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:47,400
Speaker 9: through home ownership. Can Blackrock really advocate for climate sustainability

1139
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,600
Speaker 9: net zero by twenty thirty or twenty fifty if they

1140
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 9: just named Saudi Aramco CEO ADMIN NASAR to their own

1141
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 9: board of directors.

1142
00:59:56,560 --> 00:59:59,920
Speaker 15: The last five and ten years, you saw Lary Fai

1143
01:00:00,200 --> 01:00:04,320
Speaker 15: and you saw Blackrock very aggressively talk about ESG.

1144
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:05,720
Speaker 13: And in particular climate.

1145
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 15: In fact, I remember doing an interview with him where

1146
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 15: he talked of a climate and carbon as being one

1147
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:13,280
Speaker 15: of the central issues of his life.

1148
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:14,360
Speaker 13: Of his life.

1149
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,240
Speaker 15: He then gets tortured in the last two years by

1150
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,960
Speaker 15: the right. It appears to some degree he is now

1151
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,240
Speaker 15: placating that group, and I imagine may shoot himself in

1152
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 15: the foot again on the other side. And what I

1153
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 15: fear is that people are going to think that this

1154
01:00:32,640 --> 01:00:34,640
Speaker 15: firm has just flipped floped from one side to the

1155
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 15: other side, to you know, and just to you know,

1156
01:00:36,920 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 15: whatever the wind is blowing today is the way we're going.

1157
01:00:40,320 --> 01:00:44,320
Speaker 9: And that is the central conundrum for BlackRock's ESG marketing campaign.

1158
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,800
Speaker 9: Nobody is happy. Investors aren't happy because ESG funds haven't

1159
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 9: been shown to perform very well. Conservatives flaming culture wars, Oh,

1160
01:00:52,800 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 9: they're not happy. And just to make a point, in

1161
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,760
Speaker 9: several states, they've actually pulled their funds completely out of Blackrock.

1162
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 9: Progressives they hammer Blackrock for their hypocrisy, and there's a

1163
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:05,600
Speaker 9: lot to criticize there. Larry Fink the CEO of Blackrock,

1164
01:01:05,680 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 9: recently said he is no longer using the term ESG

1165
01:01:09,240 --> 01:01:13,120
Speaker 9: because it is politically weaponized and he's ashamed to be

1166
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,320
Speaker 9: part of the debate on this issue. The truth is,

1167
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:19,360
Speaker 9: from my perspective, Larry Fink isn't ashamed of ESG. He's

1168
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,640
Speaker 9: just come to the realization that his marketing campaign didn't

1169
01:01:22,800 --> 01:01:26,640
Speaker 9: work and that it's completely incompatible with the nature of

1170
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 9: the business that he's trying to run. And the end

1171
01:01:29,160 --> 01:01:32,320
Speaker 9: result is not only that everyone is pissed off, but

1172
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 9: his firm's bottom line is being materially affected.

1173
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 18: You need to assess humans in the space as individuals

1174
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,040
Speaker 18: making their own choices. You need to assess corporations and

1175
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 18: companies as individual corporation to companies making their own choices.

1176
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:50,000
Speaker 9: Evilness is by definition subjective. But here's what I'll say.

1177
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:54,160
Speaker 9: Based on the incentive structures in place, Blackrock derives the

1178
01:01:54,280 --> 01:01:57,919
Speaker 9: majority of its revenue from investment, advisory and administrative fees

1179
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 9: charged to its clients. Their entire business model is predicated

1180
01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:04,080
Speaker 9: on increasing the value of the assets they manage, meaning

1181
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,800
Speaker 9: that day by day, year over year, corporations as a

1182
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 9: whole need to grow, need to increase their value the

1183
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:14,280
Speaker 9: rules of engagement to grow in a purely capitalist society.

1184
01:02:14,400 --> 01:02:16,160
Speaker 9: You could like this or you could not like this,

1185
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:19,640
Speaker 9: But it requires companies to extract the most value they

1186
01:02:19,720 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 9: can in every transaction business to business and business to worker,

1187
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,400
Speaker 9: and give up the least amount possible. There's little to

1188
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:31,720
Speaker 9: no human consideration whatsoever. The very reason why Blackrock have

1189
01:02:31,880 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 9: been able to make a name for themselves in a

1190
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 9: matter of just three decades versus firms that are hundreds

1191
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 9: and hundreds of years old, is because of an algorithm.

1192
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:43,040
Speaker 9: An algorithm that distills everything down and everyone down to

1193
01:02:43,200 --> 01:02:46,720
Speaker 9: ones and zeros and the present value of all future

1194
01:02:46,800 --> 01:02:50,880
Speaker 9: cash flows. There is, by necessity, an inherent inhumanity. Will

1195
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,280
Speaker 9: we be financialized and commodify everything where you and I

1196
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:58,600
Speaker 9: and everybody else become objects of trade? Now I think

1197
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 9: that's pretty darn evil, But again, evilness is subjective and

1198
01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:06,360
Speaker 9: it's up to your own personal values and interpretations. That's

1199
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 9: all from me this time. What are your thoughts about Blackrock?

1200
01:03:09,600 --> 01:03:11,920
Speaker 9: Sound off in the comments below. If you enjoyed this

1201
01:03:12,080 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 9: beyond the headline segment, I would encourage you to check

1202
01:03:14,400 --> 01:03:16,919
Speaker 9: out and subscribe to my YouTube channel fifty one forty

1203
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 9: nine with James Lee. The link will be in the

1204
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:22,920
Speaker 9: description below. I'd really appreciate that, and as always, keep

1205
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 9: on tuning in to breaking points and thank you for

1206
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:25,520
Speaker 9: your time today.