WEBVTT - Listener Questions #34

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<v Speaker 1>If you get up early to walk the dog, you

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<v Speaker 1>might wonder why all the morning.

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<v Speaker 2>Fog does blood rush to the head of upside down bats?

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<v Speaker 2>Or do adaptations help deal with all of that?

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<v Speaker 1>A spinning black hole is quite the disgrace. It breaks

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<v Speaker 1>causality all over the place.

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<v Speaker 2>Whatever questions keep you up at night, Daniel and Kelly's

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<v Speaker 2>answers will help make it right.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to listener questions number thirty four on Daniel and

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<v Speaker 1>Kelly's Extraordinary Universe.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, I'm Kelly Waiter Smith. I study parasites and space,

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<v Speaker 2>and I'm excited that today we've got nature, We've got

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<v Speaker 2>we've got black holes, We've got all the good stuff

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<v Speaker 2>on the show today.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I almost certainly

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a goat giving birth in my backyard.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right. Daniel today was like, Hey, Kelly, do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to record an hour early? And I was like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>first I have to see if my goat needs to

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<v Speaker 2>have a bowel movement or if she's about to give

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<v Speaker 2>birth early. We've all been there for moms. But but yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I and actually I think it was I think it

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<v Speaker 2>could be both.

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<v Speaker 1>Wow.

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<v Speaker 2>So between every segment today, I'm going to run out

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<v Speaker 2>and check on my goat and see how she's doing.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. You could all be witnesses to the miracle.

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<v Speaker 2>Of life, that's right. Yeah, I know, or a goat

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<v Speaker 2>pooping good Yeah, or both or both, probably both, because

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<v Speaker 2>it's biology.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess both count as the miracle of life.

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<v Speaker 4>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>They're both important functions, that's right.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when you don't poop, you kind of wish

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<v Speaker 2>you were dead, I'm guessing. So, so you need both,

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<v Speaker 2>you need both?

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<v Speaker 1>All right. Well that's the backdrop. But in the foreground

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<v Speaker 1>today we are addressing your curiosity. We are talking about

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<v Speaker 1>questions you have about how the universe works, from six

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<v Speaker 1>year old wondering about fog on the way to school

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<v Speaker 1>all the way to the inner horizons of spinning black holes.

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<v Speaker 2>And I got to tell you, as of today, I

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<v Speaker 2>am changing my strategy a little bit, because my strategy

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<v Speaker 2>has been I take questions from listeners that I do

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<v Speaker 2>not know the answer to, that are hard that I

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<v Speaker 2>can't figure out quickly, and I put them on my

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<v Speaker 2>list and those are the ones that end up on

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<v Speaker 2>the show. And now I only have questions that take

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<v Speaker 2>me like ten hours or more to answer on my list.

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<v Speaker 2>And so next time someone asked me a real softball question,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm throwing that on my list for a listener question

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<v Speaker 2>episode because I need some easy ones, sort of like

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<v Speaker 2>sprinkled in there, because this one was a bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Tough unsolved mysteries of biology. Yeah, I did that too,

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<v Speaker 1>but I also mix in easier questions that I think

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people will be interested in answer, or

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<v Speaker 1>that I think will be fun to joke about with you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh oh, those are all good strategies. Yeah, all right, Well,

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<v Speaker 2>we learn from each other as much as we learn

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<v Speaker 2>from the listeners, which is lovely. We're all learning from

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<v Speaker 2>each other. What a great community.

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<v Speaker 1>And today we're starting with a question from a six

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<v Speaker 1>year old. This is a future scientist, folks, somebody who

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<v Speaker 1>looks out in the world and wants to understand what's

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<v Speaker 1>going on. So let's get started with our first question.

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<v Speaker 5>Hey, Daniel Kelly, So our son just turns six and

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<v Speaker 5>he's starting kindergarten this year.

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<v Speaker 2>With that, we've been getting up earlier in the mornings

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<v Speaker 2>and he started to notice something.

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<v Speaker 6>By Jeja Yeho FuG and money.

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<v Speaker 2>This is such a great question. I love this question.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I'm particularly excited about fog since we moved

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<v Speaker 2>out to a farm that has these big fields, because

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<v Speaker 2>the fog will sometimes roll across the fields, and I

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<v Speaker 2>am really into zombie movies, and every once in a

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<v Speaker 2>while I'll look out and as the fog rolls across

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<v Speaker 2>the field, I'm like the zombies. They must be coming,

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<v Speaker 2>because it looks like the setting for a zombie movie.

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<v Speaker 2>And then I'm a little disappointed because this Bomi's never

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<v Speaker 2>come up out of the fog and I never get

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<v Speaker 2>to use my taekwondo skills. But that's probably better i'd

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<v Speaker 2>be dead. So all right, Daniel, where does the fog

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<v Speaker 2>come from?

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<v Speaker 1>It's foggy in the morning because fog forms when air

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<v Speaker 1>gets colder, and so at night it gets colder because

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<v Speaker 1>it's not as much sunshine, and so it gets foggy.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the answer I'm aiming at a six year old.

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<v Speaker 1>But then, of course we can dig in deeper into

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<v Speaker 1>the science for the rest of the listeners. Does that

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<v Speaker 1>make sense?

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<v Speaker 2>I guess I don't know why it getting colder should

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<v Speaker 2>make it foggy, And I bet the six year old

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<v Speaker 2>is also saying, give me a better answer. Daniel. This

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<v Speaker 2>is not why I listen to dKu.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, fair point, let's dig in. So what is

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<v Speaker 1>fog anyway? Fog is water. Water can be a solid ice,

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<v Speaker 1>it can be a liquid that's what we usually call water,

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<v Speaker 1>or it can be vapor. Okay, that vapor is invisible

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<v Speaker 1>and he can mix with the air. Or we sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>say the air is holding that water. You can't see

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<v Speaker 1>that water when it's but you can tell that it's there,

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<v Speaker 1>like when you go outside. The air can be humid,

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<v Speaker 1>which feels sticky, or if you're lucky enough to live

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<v Speaker 1>in California, the air can feel fairly dry, right, or

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<v Speaker 1>like I visited Houston recently, where the air is like chewy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I don't miss that about Houston. Really gotta

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<v Speaker 2>be honest exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>But if there's more water then the air can hold,

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<v Speaker 1>then it condenses out and you get droplets, clouds, steam, fog,

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of stuff. So the air is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>like a sponge and that it can hold some water,

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<v Speaker 1>but if you put too much into it, it's gonna

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<v Speaker 1>leak out. And so when there's more water in the

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<v Speaker 1>air that it can hold, then you get fog or

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<v Speaker 1>then you get rain. And that's called the dew point.

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<v Speaker 1>The dew point is the temperature where the air is

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<v Speaker 1>fully saturated, the relative humidity is one hundred percent. It

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<v Speaker 1>can't hold anymore. And if you go below the dew point,

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<v Speaker 1>then you get dew where the water like precipitates out

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<v Speaker 1>into little droplets and forms on plants and stuff.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's what we call do okay, all right, So

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<v Speaker 2>at night it gets colder, and the reason that matters

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<v Speaker 2>is because cold air can hold less water, right.

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<v Speaker 1>That's right. Warmer air can hold more water, and colder

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<v Speaker 1>air can hold less water. So if you have a

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<v Speaker 1>bunch of air and it's got some water in it

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<v Speaker 1>and it's all fine, and it can handle that much

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<v Speaker 1>water you're like seventy five percent humidity. Then as you

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<v Speaker 1>cool that air down, it can't hold as much water.

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<v Speaker 1>And at some point it passes the temperature where it's

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<v Speaker 1>at one hundred percent humidity. It's the temperature at which

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<v Speaker 1>it's holding all the water than it can. Then you

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<v Speaker 1>pass that, you go even colder, and it can't hold

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<v Speaker 1>that water anymore, so it comes out of the air

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<v Speaker 1>and it makes fog. So fundamentally what's happening here is

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<v Speaker 1>as you say, how much water the air can hold

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<v Speaker 1>depends on the temperature, and you might wonder, like why

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<v Speaker 1>is that? Is it related to, for example, how much

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<v Speaker 1>like salt you can dissolve into water, which also depends

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<v Speaker 1>on temperature, Like you put salt into water. You can

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<v Speaker 1>dissolve more salt and water when it's hot than when

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<v Speaker 1>it's cold.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay, So I guess what I'm wondering is, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>so you're outside on a particular kind of day where

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<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of moisture in the air and it's warm,

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<v Speaker 2>and so like, what kind of warm day would result

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<v Speaker 2>in the air holding as much water as possible? Like

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<v Speaker 2>would a warm day always hold as much water as

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<v Speaker 2>possible or does it need to have like rained recently

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<v Speaker 2>and now there's more water in the air and so

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<v Speaker 2>it's holding as much water as it can. Basically, my

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<v Speaker 2>question is why isn't there fog every single morning? And

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<v Speaker 2>so I'm trying to figure out the conditions that result

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<v Speaker 2>in one hundred percent water being in the air.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, cool question, So why does it happen sometimes and

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<v Speaker 1>not other times? So in order for this to happen,

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<v Speaker 1>you need moist air, you need water to be in

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<v Speaker 1>the air, and that's why you often see fog like

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<v Speaker 1>near valleys or near the ocean or near lakes, or

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<v Speaker 1>after rainy days or in fall when the nights are

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<v Speaker 1>really really long, so it gets colder at night than

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<v Speaker 1>it does in the summer. So yeah, you need a

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<v Speaker 1>source of that water. So if it's rained, or if

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<v Speaker 1>you have a valley with a river or a lake

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<v Speaker 1>or something, you need a source of that water in

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<v Speaker 1>order to make it moist. So you ask, like, what

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<v Speaker 1>kind of day is going to be like hot and

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<v Speaker 1>moist something where it rained or where there's a nearby

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<v Speaker 1>body of water to evaporate from. You need that source

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<v Speaker 1>of water and you need to get it up into

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<v Speaker 1>the air on that hot day, and then you need

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<v Speaker 1>to cool it down. And the best way for that

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<v Speaker 1>to happen is for the night to be clear so

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<v Speaker 1>there's good cooling because otherwise some of that heat is

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<v Speaker 1>going to be reflected by the clouds back at the earth.

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<v Speaker 1>For there to be very light winds because winds tend

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<v Speaker 1>to mix up the hot and the cold air, and

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<v Speaker 1>for the ground to be as cold as possible. So

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<v Speaker 1>on a clear night with light wind and cool ground

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<v Speaker 1>after a rainy day or near a lake, you're very

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<v Speaker 1>likely to get fog.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, awesome, Now let's give me why do I want

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<v Speaker 2>to know about salt.

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<v Speaker 1>Also, when I was reading about this, I was thinking

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<v Speaker 1>about air being saturated by water and imagining that maybe

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<v Speaker 1>it was similar to dissolving something into a solution. Like

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<v Speaker 1>you know how you can put salt into water and

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<v Speaker 1>then you don't see it right. It's not visible the

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<v Speaker 1>same way that there can be like water in the air,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're not looking at it right. It's like held

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<v Speaker 1>by the air, And so I imagined that it was similar.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe this is the same kind of process. You can

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<v Speaker 1>use your intuition. It turns out it's not. Yeah, when

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<v Speaker 1>you dissolve salt into water, the salt actually forms bonds

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<v Speaker 1>with the water. It's like actually a chemical solution. But

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<v Speaker 1>water in the air is just more like a mixture

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<v Speaker 1>of gases. You have like a mixture of air and

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<v Speaker 1>water vapor. So it's not a great analogy. So for

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<v Speaker 1>those people listening and thinking you can use your intuition

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<v Speaker 1>for salt and water to understand air and water, that's

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of a trap. So don't go down that hole.

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<v Speaker 1>But there is something really fascinating happening here. Chemically, we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about the dew point, the temperature beyond which things

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<v Speaker 1>precipitate out into the air. It's not actually quite so simple.

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<v Speaker 1>What's really happening is you have condon at every temperature,

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<v Speaker 1>and you also have evaporation at every temperature. What happens

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<v Speaker 1>when you cross the duw point is that you have

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<v Speaker 1>more condensation than evaporation. So above the due point, you

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<v Speaker 1>have more evaporation than condensation, so the air is taking

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<v Speaker 1>in more water if you like, are injecting water somehow,

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<v Speaker 1>then the air is gobbling that up, whereas below the

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<v Speaker 1>due point you have more condensation than evaporation, so the

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<v Speaker 1>air is losing the water. So it's a smooth transition

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<v Speaker 1>as you cross the due point between being dominated by

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<v Speaker 1>condensation and being dominated by evaporation. And this helps you

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<v Speaker 1>understand why it's temperature dependent also because imagine the air

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<v Speaker 1>and you have all these molecules of air, and then

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<v Speaker 1>you also have water in the air, right, But there's

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<v Speaker 1>no bonds between the water and the air, but there

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<v Speaker 1>are bonds between the water molecules. So you have a

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<v Speaker 1>droplet of water in the air like a little in

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<v Speaker 1>one piece of fog, like a fog particle or a

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<v Speaker 1>foggino or whatever. Then it's held together by little bonds

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<v Speaker 1>because water is polar, remember, and so like one end

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<v Speaker 1>of it is charged positive, one end of his charge negative,

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<v Speaker 1>so it can kind of stick together. So water molecules

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<v Speaker 1>when it's a little drop of fog are bound together

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<v Speaker 1>by these hydrogen bonds between the molecules, and in order

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<v Speaker 1>to evaporate, they have to have enough energy, enough kinetic

0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.640
<v Speaker 1>energy to evaporate. So as the temperature goes up, more

0:11:21.679 --> 0:11:23.880
<v Speaker 1>of these things have enough kinetic energy to break those

0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.880
<v Speaker 1>bonds and evaporate into the air. So that's why at

0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.640
<v Speaker 1>higher temperatures there's more water that can bounce around without

0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.480
<v Speaker 1>getting stuck to other little water molecules and making little

0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.720
<v Speaker 1>fuggy know, particles. So it's all about the temperature of

0:11:36.840 --> 0:11:39.720
<v Speaker 1>the water really and force. The temperature of the air

0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.679
<v Speaker 1>and the water are the same because they're an equilibrium.

0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.640
<v Speaker 2>So what do you think it is about foggy mornings

0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:52.600
<v Speaker 2>that make zombies more likely to be moving around? You

0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:53.679
<v Speaker 2>look a little frustrated.

0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:59.400
<v Speaker 1>Actually, sorry, I pride myself in being able to prepare

0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:02.679
<v Speaker 1>for almost any question. You're going to ask, Wow, you

0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.000
<v Speaker 1>totally caught me slash footed. So here's a completely impromptu answer.

0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:12.600
<v Speaker 1>The Foggino particles interact with the zombie field, and so

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.840
<v Speaker 1>there's a resonance between those two, and so sometimes the

0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:19.160
<v Speaker 1>zombie field will get energy from the Foggino particles and

0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:22.160
<v Speaker 1>then you'll just precipitate zombies out of the quantum vacuum.

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Holy wow. Yeah, oh my gosh.

0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 1>Also that was complete nonsense and so.

0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:29.719
<v Speaker 2>Obviously, but that was amazing. You used all the right

0:12:29.760 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>words in all of the fancy ways, and you know,

0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:35.240
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe we should start doing like a supernatural

0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.520
<v Speaker 2>sort of podcast, and then maybe we could get ahead

0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>of Oh, what is the show that's ahead of us

0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.199
<v Speaker 2>watch Chronicles. Yeah.

0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.160
<v Speaker 1>No, that's just a lesson and how easy it is

0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.000
<v Speaker 1>to sound like you know what you're talking about if

0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 1>you use big, fancy words, even if you're spewing gibberish.

0:12:53.080 --> 0:12:55.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, all right, anyway, okay, so sorry, back to the

0:12:55.960 --> 0:13:00.520
<v Speaker 2>fogginos and okay, so so do in the morning fog

0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.280
<v Speaker 2>that has settled on plants and stuff exactly. Side note,

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:07.840
<v Speaker 2>just to like Kelly being a nature nerd. One of

0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:09.959
<v Speaker 2>my favorite things in the morning is to walk through

0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.839
<v Speaker 2>our hayfields and see all of the teeny tiny little

0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.760
<v Speaker 2>spiderwebs that I always miss, but you can see them

0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:18.400
<v Speaker 2>because the dew has settled on them. There are literally

0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.440
<v Speaker 2>thousands of them out there. There's this tiny little universe

0:13:21.840 --> 0:13:24.000
<v Speaker 2>that you can only see in the morning when the

0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:27.240
<v Speaker 2>dew makes it visible and you miss it otherwise. And

0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.120
<v Speaker 2>it's just like when you look at the world at

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.040
<v Speaker 2>different scales, there's all of these things that you missed

0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.439
<v Speaker 2>at the scale that you live. And anyway, I love

0:13:35.520 --> 0:13:37.560
<v Speaker 2>walking in the morning, like when you can still see

0:13:37.559 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 2>what the dew makes visible, and a good reason to

0:13:40.080 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 2>get up early.

0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:42.640
<v Speaker 1>Sometimes in high school I had to get up early

0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.800
<v Speaker 1>for marching band, and the field was always covered in

0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.800
<v Speaker 1>dew which is then frozen. Oh and crunching on those

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.240
<v Speaker 1>frozen blades of grass that was always so satisfied.

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:52.880
<v Speaker 2>Oh okay, I thought you were going to say you

0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't like that, So yes, two positive stories about getting

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:55.920
<v Speaker 2>up early.

0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:58.200
<v Speaker 1>I did not like getting up early for marching band.

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.640
<v Speaker 1>That was the one good thing about it. The first

0:14:00.679 --> 0:14:04.360
<v Speaker 1>in grass, you know, it's satisfying. The way like stepping

0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:07.640
<v Speaker 1>on a frozen river and cracking that ice is also satisfying.

0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:08.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you feel that way.

0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:10.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. Can I

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.320
<v Speaker 2>share one negative getting up early story? And then we

0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:14.040
<v Speaker 2>really need to get back? Should we just get back

0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:17.120
<v Speaker 2>on track? Maybe we should just get back on track?

0:14:17.480 --> 0:14:19.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, why don't you say it? And it's not funny enough?

0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:19.880
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 3>All right?

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:22.600
<v Speaker 2>So when I was in high school, senior year of

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:25.760
<v Speaker 2>high school, I worked at a bakery at a zoo,

0:14:25.960 --> 0:14:27.400
<v Speaker 2>and I had to get there at five am to

0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 2>cook the cookies before everyone got there. And one morning

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I was feeling super grumpy and I was like, I

0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:33.720
<v Speaker 2>can't who in high school gets a job where you

0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 2>have to be there at five am? What am I thinking?

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:37.680
<v Speaker 4>Right?

0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 2>And so I get there and this little bird lands

0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:42.400
<v Speaker 2>on a fence and it starts singing this beautiful song,

0:14:42.440 --> 0:14:45.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, okay, all right, this is why you

0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:45.840
<v Speaker 2>get here?

0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:47.040
<v Speaker 1>And was there fog?

0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. I don't remember that.

0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:51.000
<v Speaker 1>I just remember telling there has to be fogg to

0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 1>connect to the question, and.

0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.280
<v Speaker 2>There was fog, but no zombies and anyway, singing this

0:14:56.320 --> 0:15:01.360
<v Speaker 2>beautiful song, and then out of nowhere, a raptor comes

0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:06.640
<v Speaker 2>by and literally oops the bird up and rips its

0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:11.920
<v Speaker 2>neck out, and I was like, that's mornings for you. Yes,

0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 2>that feels a little bit more on key, and anyway,

0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I felt so bad for that.

0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:17.160
<v Speaker 1>That's biology for that.

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.800
<v Speaker 2>That's biology for you, and anyway that felt Yeah. I

0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 2>was like, no, right, okay, that's right. This is why

0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.040
<v Speaker 2>you don't get up in the mornings early birds, I

0:15:25.080 --> 0:15:26.520
<v Speaker 2>don't know they get their next ripped out.

0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Be careful early birds because in the morning there's fog

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:33.240
<v Speaker 1>and the raptors can swoop down out of their hiding

0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.400
<v Speaker 1>places in the mist. That's right, all right, So chance,

0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:38.920
<v Speaker 1>send this explanation to your six year old and let's

0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:43.000
<v Speaker 1>see if we've scratched that itch or confused them with

0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:45.560
<v Speaker 1>stories of raptors and zombies.

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:52.480
<v Speaker 6>And kids so much. Nine questions. I think it's cool, Sponge.

0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 6>I don't have any questions, thank you.

0:16:15.840 --> 0:16:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we're back and we're answering questions from listeners as

0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.640
<v Speaker 1>well as giving live updates on Kelly's goat.

0:16:21.840 --> 0:16:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's staying in the show.

0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 1>Huh Kelly, did your goat give birth?

0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:28.440
<v Speaker 2>No? Not yet, not yet. She was chewing her cut

0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:30.320
<v Speaker 2>and she got up to say hi. When I went

0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>out to check on her. So she is not in

0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 2>active labor right now, but her utters are bigger, so.

0:16:36.840 --> 0:16:38.520
<v Speaker 1>I think we're are they utterly huge?

0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:43.040
<v Speaker 2>They're not utterly huge yet, but her bag has expanded,

0:16:43.080 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>as the vet said, So.

0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, I'm gonna milk these jokes as as I can.

0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.680
<v Speaker 2>Amazing, amazing, and I'm going to see how many zombie

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.640
<v Speaker 2>references I can get in there, so we'll this is

0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:53.840
<v Speaker 2>gonna be a great show.

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:54.440
<v Speaker 3>All right.

0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, the next question is not about goats or zombies

0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.200
<v Speaker 1>or even vampires, but it is about bat.

0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Ooh yes, so this is a question from Huntington. And

0:17:04.160 --> 0:17:07.440
<v Speaker 2>this is also a question that involves a child, which

0:17:07.480 --> 0:17:10.959
<v Speaker 2>I love, so yeah, and absolutely keep sending us questions

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.520
<v Speaker 2>that you and your kids have, or just questions your

0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:15.119
<v Speaker 2>kids have, and so let's go ahead and hear the question.

0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 4>Now, Hi, Daniel and Kelly, We're probably blame more. Kelly,

0:17:19.359 --> 0:17:21.399
<v Speaker 4>My son and I were reading about bats and the

0:17:21.400 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 4>book said that bats have valves in their circulatory system,

0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:26.840
<v Speaker 4>so the blood can't rush to their heads when they

0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.200
<v Speaker 4>are upside down and make them dizzy. Why Some then.

0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 6>Asked why ol geckos get dizzy.

0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:34.200
<v Speaker 4>I'm wondered if gecko's had something similar in their bodies

0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.600
<v Speaker 4>to bats. I looked but couldn't find the answer and

0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:37.680
<v Speaker 4>was hoping you could help out.

0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.919
<v Speaker 1>Thank you boy, this is a great question. But before

0:17:40.960 --> 0:17:43.919
<v Speaker 1>we understand like bats and geckos getting dizzy, you like,

0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:46.720
<v Speaker 1>what does it mean to get dizzy? Anyway? Why do

0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:48.840
<v Speaker 1>humans get dizzy? What is that all about?

0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Yeah, So when I get a question, one of

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the first things that I do is I like break

0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.320
<v Speaker 2>the question into pieces, and then you have to check

0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.240
<v Speaker 2>the premise of each part of the question. You know,

0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.879
<v Speaker 2>not because you don't trust the list, but because, like

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you know one, you just want to make sure that

0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:05.439
<v Speaker 2>everybody understands all the different parts of the question. So

0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.400
<v Speaker 2>the first part of the question here is why do

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.119
<v Speaker 2>you get dizzy? And so what's implicit in this question

0:18:12.200 --> 0:18:14.639
<v Speaker 2>here is that what makes you dizzy is the blood

0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.320
<v Speaker 2>rushing to your head. And you know, maybe when the

0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.119
<v Speaker 2>blood rushes to your head, it can't get back to

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:21.879
<v Speaker 2>your heart and so it doesn't get oxygenated, or maybe

0:18:21.880 --> 0:18:24.399
<v Speaker 2>it's the change and the fluid pressure in your head.

0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:28.520
<v Speaker 2>But actually getting dizzy is a very complicated thing and

0:18:28.560 --> 0:18:30.200
<v Speaker 2>it can be caused by a lot of different things.

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:32.240
<v Speaker 2>So I was looking at like a MAO clinic website,

0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.639
<v Speaker 2>and anxiety can make you dizzy? Really, yeah, apparently. And

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:39.960
<v Speaker 2>folks who study virtual reality and who try to make

0:18:39.960 --> 0:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>those virtual reality headsets have been sort of amazed at

0:18:44.000 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 2>the many different ways that humans can become dizzy when you,

0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, put them in a virtual reality setup and

0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.560
<v Speaker 2>they'll report like, oh, no, that made me dizzy. Now

0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I kind of want to puke, you know. No, you're underwater.

0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:58.760
<v Speaker 2>Setup didn't calm me down. It made me feel like

0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:01.639
<v Speaker 2>the world is spinning. And so anyway, being dizzy is

0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.160
<v Speaker 2>a complicated thing. But let's look at two potential reasons

0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:08.040
<v Speaker 2>for getting dizzy. Let's go ahead and dig into the

0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:11.359
<v Speaker 2>one that's implied in the question first, which is blood

0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:12.160
<v Speaker 2>rushing to your head.

0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Blood rushing your head makes you dizzy. I always thought

0:19:14.640 --> 0:19:16.919
<v Speaker 1>it was low blood pressure that made you dizzy.

0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.879
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So for me, when I stand up and you know,

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.040
<v Speaker 2>I have less blood in my head for a moment,

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.960
<v Speaker 2>that is what makes me dizzy. And I'll admit I

0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.760
<v Speaker 2>shared some of this question on Blue Sky. I did

0:19:28.800 --> 0:19:31.280
<v Speaker 2>get some responses from people being like, blood rushing to

0:19:31.320 --> 0:19:33.440
<v Speaker 2>my head doesn't get me dizzy. It's blood rushing out

0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:35.439
<v Speaker 2>of my head right, that makes me dizzy. And so

0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:38.400
<v Speaker 2>it did seem like there was a general agreement that

0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 2>it's the getting up that makes you dizzy, not the

0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:44.439
<v Speaker 2>blood rushing to the head that makes you dizzy. But

0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:47.240
<v Speaker 2>there were folks trying to understand how maybe blood rushing

0:19:47.240 --> 0:19:49.240
<v Speaker 2>to the head could make you dizzy, and the general

0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.080
<v Speaker 2>consensus was that maybe what's happening is that when the

0:19:52.080 --> 0:19:55.000
<v Speaker 2>blood rushes to your head, you know, one you get

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.000
<v Speaker 2>a pressure increase. Maybe that's a bit disorienting. But two,

0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:01.160
<v Speaker 2>maybe the blood is pool in your head, and when

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.280
<v Speaker 2>it pools in your head, perhaps you get low oxygen

0:20:04.359 --> 0:20:07.600
<v Speaker 2>because your body is used to gravity helping you get

0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:11.879
<v Speaker 2>the blood down right, and so it's less good at

0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.440
<v Speaker 2>pumping the blood away from your head when your head

0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:18.159
<v Speaker 2>is in the wrong orientation, and so maybe it's not

0:20:18.280 --> 0:20:21.520
<v Speaker 2>oxygenating as well under these conditions. And so maybe under

0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:26.160
<v Speaker 2>these lower oxygen conditions and this higher pressure, it's making

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.359
<v Speaker 2>you sort of dizzy. I see, And again I'm not

0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:32.600
<v Speaker 2>actually sure that that does cause dizziness. There was some

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:35.399
<v Speaker 2>debate about that, but the statement that was made in

0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:39.280
<v Speaker 2>this book was that for bats this isn't a problem.

0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Even though they sleep upside down because their circulatory system

0:20:43.600 --> 0:20:48.320
<v Speaker 2>has valves, and these valves essentially keep the blood from

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:50.920
<v Speaker 2>pooling in the head, and so I think the idea

0:20:51.000 --> 0:20:53.160
<v Speaker 2>here would be that they make it so the blood

0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:57.480
<v Speaker 2>can't flow in the wrong direction and pool. And so

0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>that was the statement. And so the question was bats

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 2>have these valves? Do geckos have the valves too?

0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:06.960
<v Speaker 1>And I guess humans don't have these valves because humans

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:08.840
<v Speaker 1>can't be upside down for very long with other their

0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>heads popping or something.

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, okay, so the equivalent of being upside down

0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.119
<v Speaker 2>essentially would be like being in space. So when you

0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:19.159
<v Speaker 2>are in space, if it's something you know that's right, yes, yeah, right.

0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I don't know the answer to that,

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.880
<v Speaker 2>but I know the answer is something else. So when

0:21:22.880 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 2>you're in space, the fluids shift up to your head

0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:29.200
<v Speaker 2>and people do report feeling, you know, dizzy and disoriented.

0:21:29.359 --> 0:21:32.720
<v Speaker 2>But that is partly maybe because of fluid shifts, but

0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:34.359
<v Speaker 2>also because of this other thing that we're going to

0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.040
<v Speaker 2>talk about in a moment, which is it messes up

0:21:37.080 --> 0:21:41.760
<v Speaker 2>your vestibular system. Also, you're what system vestibular system hold on.

0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:43.720
<v Speaker 2>That's the next thing we're going to talk about. Okay,

0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.639
<v Speaker 2>But what we do with our fluid shifts is we

0:21:47.400 --> 0:21:51.440
<v Speaker 2>pee a lot, and so our body releases a lot

0:21:51.440 --> 0:21:53.800
<v Speaker 2>of fluids because our body is like, there's too much

0:21:53.840 --> 0:21:56.280
<v Speaker 2>pressure up here. We're kind of confused about it, and

0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>so you urinate a lot, you lose a lot of

0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:01.280
<v Speaker 2>the fluid. But we do think that you still have

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.479
<v Speaker 2>problems resulting from having too much fluid in your head. So,

0:22:04.480 --> 0:22:07.720
<v Speaker 2>for example, astronaut vision gets worse over time, and we

0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:10.239
<v Speaker 2>think partly that's because you do have more pressure in

0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.320
<v Speaker 2>your head because of more fluids in your head, and

0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 2>we think that's pressing on your eyeballs. And people also

0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:19.880
<v Speaker 2>report that there are wrinkles go away because with more

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:22.760
<v Speaker 2>fluid in their faces, it kind of presses out the

0:22:22.800 --> 0:22:26.520
<v Speaker 2>wrinkles in their skin and so but they survive. So anyway,

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.040
<v Speaker 2>I think you can essentially have fluids pushing up on

0:22:29.080 --> 0:22:31.480
<v Speaker 2>your head and survive. Your body has ways of dealing

0:22:31.480 --> 0:22:33.320
<v Speaker 2>with it. They're kind of weird though.

0:22:33.200 --> 0:22:35.600
<v Speaker 1>But bats have these special valves. And now we're on

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:36.320
<v Speaker 1>to geckos.

0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but no, or do they?

0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 3>Oh?

0:22:38.400 --> 0:22:38.919
<v Speaker 1>I see.

0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:40.879
<v Speaker 2>So the first thing I do is I was like,

0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 2>all right, well, I'm gonna look it up. Do bets

0:22:42.840 --> 0:22:46.280
<v Speaker 2>have these valves? And so I did find some websites

0:22:46.760 --> 0:22:48.720
<v Speaker 2>like when I just did a plain Google search that

0:22:48.760 --> 0:22:51.080
<v Speaker 2>we're saying like, oh, bats have these valves, blah blah blah.

0:22:51.080 --> 0:22:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I was all right, well, I'm gonna find a scientific

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.320
<v Speaker 2>paper that talks about these valves. And I found mention

0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:58.960
<v Speaker 2>of valves in the wings that like help them with flying,

0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:02.359
<v Speaker 2>but I couldn't find mention of any valves related to

0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:06.119
<v Speaker 2>helping them deal with being upside down. And in fact,

0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.960
<v Speaker 2>I even found a paper that talked about how bats

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:12.320
<v Speaker 2>sleep upside down, and they were talking about how when

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.200
<v Speaker 2>they sleep upside down, there's an increase in their cranial

0:23:16.240 --> 0:23:20.280
<v Speaker 2>pressure because fluids shift into their brain, which would suggest, yeah,

0:23:20.359 --> 0:23:22.919
<v Speaker 2>they don't have these valves. And in fact, that paper

0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:24.920
<v Speaker 2>did not talk about valves at all, And in fact,

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:26.960
<v Speaker 2>they talked about how if you hold bats upside down

0:23:26.960 --> 0:23:30.960
<v Speaker 2>for even longer, their heart remodels to deal with the

0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:35.080
<v Speaker 2>fact that, wow, it needs to accommodate being upside down.

0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:37.280
<v Speaker 1>But why can it be such a deep mystery whether

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:39.679
<v Speaker 1>or not bats have these valves. Bats are not like

0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>rare or microscopic or invisible or shifting into zombies in

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:47.919
<v Speaker 1>the morning mist Like, why doesn't somebody just open up

0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:49.440
<v Speaker 1>a bat carcass and look?

0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.679
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Well, so here's the thing. Another valve story that

0:23:53.720 --> 0:23:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I've heard a lot, and I'm going to answer your question,

0:23:56.160 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 2>just stick with me for a second, is that giraffes

0:23:59.200 --> 0:24:03.200
<v Speaker 2>have these valves also because they have these very long necks, right, yeah,

0:24:03.240 --> 0:24:05.000
<v Speaker 2>and then when their head goes down to take a

0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.119
<v Speaker 2>drink of water, they also need to have valves to

0:24:07.119 --> 0:24:09.240
<v Speaker 2>make sure that their blood isn't rushing to their head

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:11.200
<v Speaker 2>and then rushing back. Right.

0:24:11.320 --> 0:24:15.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm imagining some like complicated steampunk giraffe now energetically pumping

0:24:15.840 --> 0:24:17.640
<v Speaker 1>stuff up and then pumping it back when the head

0:24:17.680 --> 0:24:19.320
<v Speaker 1>turns around. This is a crazy system.

0:24:19.480 --> 0:24:21.360
<v Speaker 2>Well, so the idea is that they've got these valves

0:24:21.400 --> 0:24:23.919
<v Speaker 2>so that the blood like is essentially stopped from like

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 2>pooling in the wrong spots. And so there was an

0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.520
<v Speaker 2>experiment that had these giraffes that they anestatized and they

0:24:30.600 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 2>held them up in the air in these braces, and

0:24:33.160 --> 0:24:36.280
<v Speaker 2>then they essentially while they were anestatized, lifted their heads

0:24:36.359 --> 0:24:39.080
<v Speaker 2>up and then put their heads down and then kept

0:24:39.080 --> 0:24:40.600
<v Speaker 2>track of like where things were going.

0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.520
<v Speaker 1>So they're like, they're like tilting these snoozing giraffes. What

0:24:44.560 --> 0:24:45.960
<v Speaker 1>a hilarious experiment.

0:24:46.000 --> 0:24:47.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, I know, amazing, Right, And so then

0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.479
<v Speaker 2>they were like monitoring changes in pressure and then like

0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:53.240
<v Speaker 2>looking at like how the hearts were responding and stuff

0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:56.159
<v Speaker 2>like that. And they then they looked and that like

0:24:56.240 --> 0:24:58.240
<v Speaker 2>you know, where are the valves and stuff? And here

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:03.359
<v Speaker 2>it says his biological examinations revealed no valves in the

0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:07.879
<v Speaker 2>carotid arteries, although such arterial vowels have been mentioned in

0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:12.160
<v Speaker 2>more popular accounts such as the Encyclopedia Britannica online.

0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, wow, you're calling out the Encyclopedia Britannica here, Kelly.

0:25:17.200 --> 0:25:19.800
<v Speaker 2>I am not the paper is the paper is. And

0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:23.879
<v Speaker 2>so I think that there has been like this vowelves

0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 2>deal with being upside down idea that has maybe escaped

0:25:28.320 --> 0:25:31.760
<v Speaker 2>into the popular imagination.

0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Another example of a gap between scientific and popular.

0:25:34.720 --> 0:25:37.000
<v Speaker 2>Knowledge, maybe, And I'd love to know where this came from.

0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 2>And so anyway, so okay, basically what I'm saying is

0:25:39.680 --> 0:25:42.119
<v Speaker 2>I watched a bunch of videos and the bat experts,

0:25:42.119 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>when you ask them how bats managed to be upside down,

0:25:44.840 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 2>they did not mention the valves. What they said was

0:25:48.160 --> 0:25:52.880
<v Speaker 2>bats are so small it doesn't matter. Oh, they have

0:25:53.119 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 2>strong hearts, and the distance between their heart and their

0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.800
<v Speaker 2>head is small enough that they can just pump it

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:03.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's okay. Their hearts just get stronger if they

0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:06.320
<v Speaker 2>need to. And they didn't say anything about valves. They

0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:09.240
<v Speaker 2>just said they're small enough, doesn't matter. And I couldn't

0:26:09.240 --> 0:26:10.479
<v Speaker 2>find any evidence of valves.

0:26:10.640 --> 0:26:13.840
<v Speaker 1>This is a fascinating crossover between physics and biology. Actually,

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:16.520
<v Speaker 1>it's not like you can take the same biological system

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:18.440
<v Speaker 1>and just like scale it up by a thousand or

0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.719
<v Speaker 1>scale it down by a thousand and assume it's going

0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.840
<v Speaker 1>to operate the same way, because like pressure and volume

0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:26.480
<v Speaker 1>and surface area and mass, these things all grow differently

0:26:27.080 --> 0:26:29.800
<v Speaker 1>with size, and so they'll be like totally out of

0:26:29.800 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 1>whack if it gets too big or too small. So

0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:34.800
<v Speaker 1>you're saying the same system, which is susceptible to getting

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.359
<v Speaker 1>dizzy and having blood pooling at our scale or maybe

0:26:37.359 --> 0:26:39.679
<v Speaker 1>even giraffes, doesn't happen for bats.

0:26:39.960 --> 0:26:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that is the answer, because like the bat experts,

0:26:44.119 --> 0:26:46.440
<v Speaker 2>we're not mentioning the valves. I couldn't find the valves

0:26:46.440 --> 0:26:49.119
<v Speaker 2>in the literature. If anybody wants to write into correct me,

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.040
<v Speaker 2>please tell me. And then in a future Listener Questions episode,

0:26:52.080 --> 0:26:54.800
<v Speaker 2>at the beginning of the episode, I will say, there

0:26:54.880 --> 0:26:57.000
<v Speaker 2>is evidence of the valves and I just missed it.

0:26:57.080 --> 0:26:59.840
<v Speaker 1>Send us proof of the alleged bat valves.

0:27:00.080 --> 0:27:01.879
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mc daniel and I would always like to

0:27:01.880 --> 0:27:04.840
<v Speaker 2>be corrected if we're wrong about something, So please let

0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:05.159
<v Speaker 2>us know.

0:27:05.359 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Don't be shy right in with your well, actually comment.

0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:11.359
<v Speaker 2>Please you please, absolutely, okay. And so another reason that

0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:14.719
<v Speaker 2>we get dizzy is because we have this system in

0:27:14.760 --> 0:27:18.080
<v Speaker 2>our head that helps us figure out like balance and

0:27:18.119 --> 0:27:20.879
<v Speaker 2>where we are in the universe in this system. So

0:27:20.920 --> 0:27:24.080
<v Speaker 2>I use the word earlier, and I will, for Daniel's sake,

0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:26.800
<v Speaker 2>avoid biology jargon from here on out after I say

0:27:26.840 --> 0:27:27.800
<v Speaker 2>the word one more time.

0:27:28.040 --> 0:27:29.040
<v Speaker 1>Is this vestibular?

0:27:29.280 --> 0:27:33.400
<v Speaker 2>Vestibular? It's in your inner ear and it's a system

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:38.600
<v Speaker 2>of tubes filled with fluid, and when you move, like

0:27:38.640 --> 0:27:41.960
<v Speaker 2>when you rotate your head side to side, the fluid

0:27:42.240 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 2>starts going around the tube.

0:27:44.440 --> 0:27:45.480
<v Speaker 1>It's an accelerometer.

0:27:45.640 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 2>It is, Yeah, it's like an accelerometer.

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:48.440
<v Speaker 1>It is an accelerometer.

0:27:48.680 --> 0:27:52.320
<v Speaker 2>It is an accelerometer, and your brain detects that the

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.840
<v Speaker 2>fluid is going around in that tube, and sometimes so

0:27:55.920 --> 0:27:58.959
<v Speaker 2>like if you start spinning in place over and over

0:27:59.000 --> 0:28:01.199
<v Speaker 2>and over again, the fluid in that tube is going

0:28:01.240 --> 0:28:03.280
<v Speaker 2>to start spinnings and spinning and spinning and spinning. And

0:28:03.280 --> 0:28:05.240
<v Speaker 2>then if you stop spinning all of a sudden, it's

0:28:05.240 --> 0:28:07.119
<v Speaker 2>going to take a little while for that fluid to

0:28:07.240 --> 0:28:09.960
<v Speaker 2>stop spinning. And so for a little while there, your

0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:13.120
<v Speaker 2>brain still gets the message that you are spinning, while

0:28:13.160 --> 0:28:16.080
<v Speaker 2>your eyes are telling your brain, I am not spinning.

0:28:16.560 --> 0:28:19.520
<v Speaker 2>And we think that that disconnect between what your ear

0:28:19.600 --> 0:28:21.400
<v Speaker 2>is telling your brain and what your eyes are telling

0:28:21.440 --> 0:28:23.560
<v Speaker 2>your brain is part of why you feel dizzy, because

0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:26.360
<v Speaker 2>you're getting conflicting information. And to be honest, we don't

0:28:26.400 --> 0:28:28.679
<v Speaker 2>one hundred percent understand dizziness.

0:28:28.880 --> 0:28:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Has nobody done the experiment of taking a bunch of

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:32.720
<v Speaker 1>giraffes and putting them on a merry go around and

0:28:32.760 --> 0:28:34.480
<v Speaker 1>then you don't even remember about whether they got dizzy.

0:28:34.520 --> 0:28:36.040
<v Speaker 1>That seems like that would settle the question.

0:28:40.040 --> 0:28:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we need a lot of money for that experiment.

0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:47.520
<v Speaker 2>Probably call us that's right, that's right, we will take

0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:50.680
<v Speaker 2>your money. But it does suggest actually that if you

0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:53.560
<v Speaker 2>spin in the opposite direction, that could slow the fluid down,

0:28:53.600 --> 0:28:56.200
<v Speaker 2>and that might be a way to help your dizziness

0:28:56.200 --> 0:28:58.240
<v Speaker 2>go away faster, which is kind of a fun experiment.

0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Medical advice people, not medical advice.

0:29:02.560 --> 0:29:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Kelly is never giving official medical advice. I am not

0:29:05.280 --> 0:29:06.080
<v Speaker 2>that kind of doctor.

0:29:06.160 --> 0:29:08.000
<v Speaker 1>If your kid is dizzy, do not spin them the

0:29:08.040 --> 0:29:11.280
<v Speaker 1>other way on our No, it's just an interesting thought experience.

0:29:11.360 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right. And so we've got tubes that

0:29:14.240 --> 0:29:17.400
<v Speaker 2>go in multiple different directions to accommodate for spinning in

0:29:17.480 --> 0:29:20.800
<v Speaker 2>multiple different directions. And then we also have a system

0:29:21.040 --> 0:29:25.560
<v Speaker 2>of essentially crystals that are tied to hairs, and this

0:29:25.680 --> 0:29:29.880
<v Speaker 2>tells you about moving it like forward and backwards. And

0:29:29.920 --> 0:29:32.960
<v Speaker 2>so if you go forward really quick, then those crystals

0:29:33.000 --> 0:29:35.960
<v Speaker 2>are gonna get pushed forward and they'll pull on the hairs.

0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:38.440
<v Speaker 2>And that's how your body knows that, like, oh, we

0:29:38.520 --> 0:29:40.360
<v Speaker 2>just kind of moved forward, and that sends a message

0:29:40.360 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 2>to your brain that we move forward.

0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>No, we accelerated, Kelly, we accelerate.

0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 2>We accelerate, thank you, thank you.

0:29:45.400 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 1>Your ear can tell that you're moving or that heads

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:51.200
<v Speaker 1>velocity can only measure acceleration. It's like a bowling ball

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:53.680
<v Speaker 1>in the back of a truck, right it's seventy miles

0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:55.400
<v Speaker 1>an hour in the highway. The bowling ball doesn't move,

0:29:55.440 --> 0:29:57.480
<v Speaker 1>but if you hit the brakes, then the bowling ball

0:29:57.560 --> 0:29:59.640
<v Speaker 1>rolls to the front. So even if you didn't know

0:29:59.640 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>you're a lo and you couldn't measure your acceleration in

0:30:02.320 --> 0:30:04.760
<v Speaker 1>any other way, if you watch the ball, you can

0:30:04.840 --> 0:30:07.480
<v Speaker 1>tell if you're accelerating in any direction. And that's what's

0:30:07.480 --> 0:30:09.360
<v Speaker 1>happening in your ear. It's an accelerometer.

0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:13.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes, So we've got two different kinds of accelerometers

0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 2>in our ears, and geckos and bats have these as well.

0:30:18.960 --> 0:30:23.120
<v Speaker 2>Presumably geckos and bats could get dizzy also if they

0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.560
<v Speaker 2>moved too quickly and messed with these kinds of accelerometers.

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:29.800
<v Speaker 2>And so I'm guessing they have the same kinds of constraints,

0:30:29.800 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 2>because I did look up do geckos, for example, also

0:30:34.200 --> 0:30:38.040
<v Speaker 2>have semicircular ducks, and they do also have these kinds

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:41.040
<v Speaker 2>of semicircular canals, and so you know, I think they

0:30:41.080 --> 0:30:43.920
<v Speaker 2>could possibly also get dizzy. They've got the same system

0:30:43.960 --> 0:30:44.360
<v Speaker 2>that we have.

0:30:44.560 --> 0:30:46.360
<v Speaker 1>I think I might have a special mutation because I

0:30:46.360 --> 0:30:48.959
<v Speaker 1>tend to get dizzy when I hear too many biological

0:30:49.040 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 1>Latin names.

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, I wanted to talk to you about that

0:30:52.320 --> 0:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>because you told me that you wanted me to say

0:30:54.920 --> 0:30:57.920
<v Speaker 2>things like beetle one and beetle two, And I was

0:30:57.960 --> 0:31:01.840
<v Speaker 2>thinking that from now on, we're not saying muons, gluons,

0:31:02.120 --> 0:31:06.400
<v Speaker 2>no fermions, no bosons. It's particle one, particle two.

0:31:07.040 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 3>Uh.

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:11.040
<v Speaker 2>And what's that's right? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna simplify

0:31:11.080 --> 0:31:14.320
<v Speaker 2>all of this from from now on. Okay, So anyway

0:31:14.360 --> 0:31:17.840
<v Speaker 2>to finally answer the question, why don't geckos get dizzy?

0:31:18.120 --> 0:31:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Uh, nobody knows, that's right.

0:31:21.360 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 2>Who knows. I think they might get dizzy. They I

0:31:24.440 --> 0:31:27.320
<v Speaker 2>think they have a similar semi circular canal system that

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:31.600
<v Speaker 2>we have, and sometimes we get dizzy. Sloths hang upside down.

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 2>And I think the answer for why they don't get

0:31:33.800 --> 0:31:36.320
<v Speaker 2>dizzy is they move kind of slowly. That's an answer

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:38.880
<v Speaker 2>I found online. So maybe geckos also have to be

0:31:38.920 --> 0:31:41.400
<v Speaker 2>a little careful about moving slowly sometimes. But if they're

0:31:41.480 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 2>running away from a predator, maybe they do get a

0:31:43.160 --> 0:31:44.840
<v Speaker 2>little bit dizzy from time to time, but they just

0:31:44.880 --> 0:31:46.320
<v Speaker 2>have to deal with it like the rest of us.

0:31:46.760 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know about this valve thing. I didn't find

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:51.960
<v Speaker 2>evidence for it. But I'm welcoming people to correct me.

0:31:52.680 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 2>And thanks for this fun question. I enjoyed reading about

0:31:55.960 --> 0:32:00.000
<v Speaker 2>semi circular canals and the circulatory systems of bats and geckos,

0:32:00.080 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 2>and this took me down so many different rabbit holes, fascinating.

0:32:03.600 --> 0:32:04.480
<v Speaker 2>It was a lot of fun.

0:32:04.600 --> 0:32:06.720
<v Speaker 1>That's one of my favorite things about listener questions is

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:09.200
<v Speaker 1>how can we learn in digging up the answers?

0:32:09.560 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely all right, let's see if I gave a moderately

0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:18.280
<v Speaker 2>satisfactory answer to Huntington and your son. Let's see how

0:32:18.320 --> 0:32:18.680
<v Speaker 2>this went.

0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:19.680
<v Speaker 4>So what do you think?

0:32:20.280 --> 0:32:23.080
<v Speaker 6>That's pretty good? That's pretty good.

0:32:23.840 --> 0:32:24.720
<v Speaker 4>It's pretty good.

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:28.720
<v Speaker 6>I'm wanted to I mean, I can't good. Okay, this

0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.360
<v Speaker 6>is googgs leazing. I need to catch Thank.

0:32:31.240 --> 0:32:34.480
<v Speaker 5>You for breaking down the question and exposing the assumptions

0:32:34.520 --> 0:32:37.560
<v Speaker 5>we didn't even know we were making. I'm honestly surprised

0:32:37.560 --> 0:32:39.880
<v Speaker 5>to learn that bats and giraffes don't have valves like

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.360
<v Speaker 5>we had read about. I guess that is a lesson

0:32:42.400 --> 0:32:47.280
<v Speaker 5>about trusting and verifying the information we read in popsie books.

0:32:47.800 --> 0:32:50.400
<v Speaker 5>I guess I shouldn't have been surprised to learn that

0:32:50.480 --> 0:32:52.760
<v Speaker 5>for something we've all experienced. There is not a clear

0:32:52.800 --> 0:32:56.920
<v Speaker 5>explanation for dizziness, but I still was. My son enjoyed

0:32:56.960 --> 0:33:00.880
<v Speaker 5>the answers and was very satisfied with them, something that

0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.880
<v Speaker 5>I have never been able to provide with my answers.

0:33:04.560 --> 0:33:30.040
<v Speaker 5>So thanks again and keep up the great work.

0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.640
<v Speaker 2>All right, Worshock almost got out of the barn. Lottie's

0:33:33.640 --> 0:33:35.640
<v Speaker 2>looking a bit uncomfortable. I'm gonna be sitting with her

0:33:35.680 --> 0:33:39.000
<v Speaker 2>for the hour after we're done. But all right, we're

0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:42.880
<v Speaker 2>back to Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe and the extraordinarily

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.560
<v Speaker 2>fun watching of goats kidding.

0:33:49.320 --> 0:33:52.520
<v Speaker 1>In the brief interval before Kelly's Good gives birth, we're

0:33:52.520 --> 0:33:55.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna try to answer a complicated question about what's going

0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:59.760
<v Speaker 1>on inside spinning black holes. Here's a fun question I

0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:01.240
<v Speaker 1>got from Joe.

0:34:01.360 --> 0:34:05.840
<v Speaker 3>Hi, Daniel and Kelly. This question is more for Daniel.

0:34:06.200 --> 0:34:09.000
<v Speaker 3>I understand that the inner workings of a black hole

0:34:09.320 --> 0:34:13.760
<v Speaker 3>are a mystery to us, But I heard something about

0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:19.000
<v Speaker 3>a couchy manifold. It's some kind of inner horizon, and

0:34:19.040 --> 0:34:24.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm wondering how these complex mathematics might be explained.

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:26.759
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is fun. I don't think I know what

0:34:26.800 --> 0:34:30.719
<v Speaker 2>a couchy manifold is did I say it right?

0:34:31.560 --> 0:34:32.759
<v Speaker 1>Koushi? Yeah?

0:34:32.920 --> 0:34:35.480
<v Speaker 2>Caushi? Well no are The answer is no because that's

0:34:35.520 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 2>not what I said. But you're nice.

0:34:39.880 --> 0:34:40.319
<v Speaker 6>I like that.

0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:42.840
<v Speaker 1>We can call it kouchy if you prefer to. Imagine

0:34:42.840 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 1>like sitting on a couch while understanding these things.

0:34:45.200 --> 0:34:47.440
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, I like sitting on a couch while understanding

0:34:47.480 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 2>the universe. So what is a cat Oh no, I

0:34:52.440 --> 0:34:55.600
<v Speaker 2>already forgot Koushi caushe So.

0:34:55.680 --> 0:35:00.920
<v Speaker 1>A cauchy horizon is where causality breaks down. And this

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:03.280
<v Speaker 1>is going to be really surprising because we're talking about

0:35:03.320 --> 0:35:07.920
<v Speaker 1>classical physics, which is famous for being deterministic, which means that,

0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:10.719
<v Speaker 1>like the past determines the future. You have a bunch

0:35:10.760 --> 0:35:13.319
<v Speaker 1>of billiard balls, you shoot them at each other, they

0:35:13.360 --> 0:35:15.400
<v Speaker 1>bounce off at some angle. They're going to do that

0:35:15.520 --> 0:35:19.399
<v Speaker 1>every time. Because the past determines the future. There's no fuzziness,

0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:23.760
<v Speaker 1>there's no randomness. We're ignoring quantum mechanics completely for this answer.

0:35:24.040 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Imagine we live in a universe ruled by classical physics.

0:35:27.920 --> 0:35:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Usually we think, and we talked about this on the

0:35:29.920 --> 0:35:33.719
<v Speaker 1>Weather Modeling episode. If you know everything about the universe,

0:35:33.800 --> 0:35:37.879
<v Speaker 1>like where all the particles are where they're going their

0:35:37.920 --> 0:35:42.840
<v Speaker 1>exact stated universe. Plus you know the rules of the universe,

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.880
<v Speaker 1>meaning like how things interact and how they will bounce

0:35:45.920 --> 0:35:49.399
<v Speaker 1>off of each other, then you can predict the future. Right,

0:35:49.480 --> 0:35:53.200
<v Speaker 1>So perfect knowledge of the current state plus perfect knowledge

0:35:53.200 --> 0:35:56.320
<v Speaker 1>of the rules, you should be able to predict the future.

0:35:56.560 --> 0:35:58.320
<v Speaker 1>That's causality in a nutshell.

0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:02.319
<v Speaker 2>Sure, but I thought we also determined that it was

0:36:03.120 --> 0:36:06.400
<v Speaker 2>also a little too complicated and we couldn't actually predict

0:36:06.440 --> 0:36:09.319
<v Speaker 2>the future. But technically we should be able to if

0:36:09.360 --> 0:36:12.080
<v Speaker 2>we could do those complicated equations.

0:36:12.920 --> 0:36:16.800
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, okay, absolutely, if you had perfect knowledge of the universe,

0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:19.920
<v Speaker 1>which you never do, not even because of quantum mechanics,

0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:22.759
<v Speaker 1>but because there's just too much information. Like in the

0:36:22.800 --> 0:36:25.000
<v Speaker 1>case of the weather, we don't have enough booies out

0:36:25.040 --> 0:36:27.040
<v Speaker 1>in the ocean, and we don't have enough airplanes with

0:36:27.120 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 1>thermometers on them. We don't have all that information. But

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:34.600
<v Speaker 1>in principle, that's a practical problem and engineers could overcome it.

0:36:34.680 --> 0:36:39.280
<v Speaker 1>The information exists and is accessible in a classical universe,

0:36:39.320 --> 0:36:42.319
<v Speaker 1>which isn't our universe. So there's lots of reasons why

0:36:42.360 --> 0:36:45.520
<v Speaker 1>this could never happen. But if you imagine a classical universe.

0:36:45.840 --> 0:36:48.360
<v Speaker 1>It is possible in principle to have that information. It

0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:52.000
<v Speaker 1>exists and in that classical universe, because we've assumed the

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.640
<v Speaker 1>universe is classical and that there are rules, and if

0:36:54.640 --> 0:36:57.400
<v Speaker 1>we knew those rules, then in principle, we could perfectly

0:36:57.400 --> 0:36:58.200
<v Speaker 1>predict the future.

0:36:58.440 --> 0:36:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Got it.

0:36:58.880 --> 0:37:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay, that's the same, But there are some caveats, right,

0:37:02.040 --> 0:37:04.879
<v Speaker 1>and those caveats are what we're talking about today. Cave

0:37:04.960 --> 0:37:07.319
<v Speaker 1>At number one is about the speed of light, and

0:37:07.360 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 1>it's not actually directly related to the country horizon, but

0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 1>it's a good warm up because what you actually need

0:37:13.719 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 1>to bridge the future is not all the knowledge in

0:37:16.560 --> 0:37:19.640
<v Speaker 1>the universe about what's happening. Some things in the universe

0:37:19.760 --> 0:37:23.040
<v Speaker 1>can't affect your immediate future. The only thing that can

0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:26.640
<v Speaker 1>affect the immediate future is parts of the universe where

0:37:26.760 --> 0:37:30.600
<v Speaker 1>light has had time to get here since that event. So,

0:37:30.719 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 1>for example, if there's an alien right now in Alpha

0:37:33.560 --> 0:37:37.040
<v Speaker 1>Centauri and they're aiming a death ray at us, and

0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:39.960
<v Speaker 1>they fire the button boom right now to shoot that

0:37:40.000 --> 0:37:42.680
<v Speaker 1>death ray at us, it cannot affect what's going to

0:37:42.760 --> 0:37:46.440
<v Speaker 1>happen right here on Earth in the next millisecond, because

0:37:46.440 --> 0:37:48.759
<v Speaker 1>there isn't time for that death ray to get here.

0:37:49.239 --> 0:37:51.680
<v Speaker 1>So we say in physics, it's not part of our

0:37:51.800 --> 0:37:55.319
<v Speaker 1>past light cone. Our past light cone is everything that

0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:59.000
<v Speaker 1>can affect the immediate future. And because there's a speed

0:37:59.000 --> 0:38:03.040
<v Speaker 1>limit on infrom and signaling, then things that can't get

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:05.360
<v Speaker 1>here are outside of that past like cone.

0:38:05.800 --> 0:38:09.720
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I understand. It still feels like there's an approximately

0:38:09.800 --> 0:38:13.000
<v Speaker 2>infinite number of things we can't measure, and we've knocked

0:38:13.040 --> 0:38:15.880
<v Speaker 2>a small fraction of them out. But but but okay,

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:17.520
<v Speaker 2>but all right, there's some things now we don't have

0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:18.240
<v Speaker 2>to worry about.

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 1>But of course that death ray will eventually arrive at Earth,

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:24.960
<v Speaker 1>and in a couple of million years, that alien shooting

0:38:25.000 --> 0:38:28.000
<v Speaker 1>that deathray, that event will be in the past like

0:38:28.040 --> 0:38:31.960
<v Speaker 1>cone of our future. Right, So it's a time dependent thing.

0:38:32.040 --> 0:38:35.560
<v Speaker 1>Our past like cone, is not just a location. It's

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:39.560
<v Speaker 1>locations and times. It's events in space time. Some of

0:38:39.560 --> 0:38:41.919
<v Speaker 1>those things that are outside our past like cone right

0:38:41.960 --> 0:38:44.840
<v Speaker 1>now can be in the past like cone of people

0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.759
<v Speaker 1>in our future. Right because aliens, if they shoot that

0:38:47.800 --> 0:38:50.480
<v Speaker 1>death ray, can kill our great great great great great

0:38:50.480 --> 0:38:51.879
<v Speaker 1>great great great grandchildren.

0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:53.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, got it? So wait, what is the question that

0:38:53.600 --> 0:38:56.439
<v Speaker 2>we're trying to answer, then are we trying to answer

0:38:56.480 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>who's going to die? Because then it seems very relevant

0:38:58.960 --> 0:38:59.279
<v Speaker 2>to them.

0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.920
<v Speaker 1>So we're trying to answer what is a Cauchhi horizon?

0:39:02.320 --> 0:39:05.480
<v Speaker 1>And a Cauchhi horizon is a place where you cannot

0:39:05.560 --> 0:39:08.879
<v Speaker 1>predict the future? Okay, all right, And they might wonder

0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:12.200
<v Speaker 1>how does that happen? What's going on? Classical physics, things

0:39:12.239 --> 0:39:15.760
<v Speaker 1>are deterministic. In fact, they only depend on a subset

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:18.440
<v Speaker 1>of the universe, your past light cone. How is it

0:39:18.520 --> 0:39:22.560
<v Speaker 1>possible to have in classical physics a setup where you

0:39:22.640 --> 0:39:26.160
<v Speaker 1>can't predict the future. And the answer is if you

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.600
<v Speaker 1>have something in your past light cone like a singularity,

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 1>which is like a breakdown of classical physics, something that's unpredictable.

0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:34.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:39:34.520 --> 0:39:37.160
<v Speaker 1>The short answer is that a Caushi horizon is what

0:39:37.239 --> 0:39:41.160
<v Speaker 1>happens inside a spinning black hole where there's a singularity

0:39:41.200 --> 0:39:44.759
<v Speaker 1>inside your past light cone. And a singularity is not

0:39:44.880 --> 0:39:47.120
<v Speaker 1>something you can fold into your equations because it has

0:39:47.120 --> 0:39:49.640
<v Speaker 1>an infinity in it, and so it makes it impossible

0:39:49.680 --> 0:39:52.480
<v Speaker 1>to predict the future. Okay, So let's dig into that

0:39:52.520 --> 0:39:55.600
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more and understand why that happens. And

0:39:55.680 --> 0:39:58.920
<v Speaker 1>to do that, let's remember what a black hole is anyway.

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:02.160
<v Speaker 1>A black hole in popular science is often like a

0:40:02.200 --> 0:40:05.320
<v Speaker 1>thing in space that has really strong gravity and sucks

0:40:05.360 --> 0:40:08.760
<v Speaker 1>everything up right. But actually gravity is not a force,

0:40:08.880 --> 0:40:12.800
<v Speaker 1>it's curvature of space. Time objects are moving to follow

0:40:12.840 --> 0:40:16.000
<v Speaker 1>that curvature, and black holes are just places with really

0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:18.640
<v Speaker 1>really strong curvature because you have a lot of mass

0:40:18.680 --> 0:40:22.200
<v Speaker 1>and a small area, so the curvature gets really really strong,

0:40:22.600 --> 0:40:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and it gets so strong that you get an event horizon.

0:40:25.880 --> 0:40:28.680
<v Speaker 1>Event horizon is like a dotted line in space, and

0:40:28.760 --> 0:40:32.160
<v Speaker 1>anything that goes inside the event horizon will never leave

0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:35.719
<v Speaker 1>the event horizon. Okay. So that means that a particle

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:39.360
<v Speaker 1>inside the event horizon, its entire future is in the

0:40:39.400 --> 0:40:42.279
<v Speaker 1>event horizon. There's no place in the event horizon and

0:40:42.320 --> 0:40:45.080
<v Speaker 1>no particle trajectory you could even come up with that's

0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:48.120
<v Speaker 1>ever going to leave the event horizon, okay. And the

0:40:48.160 --> 0:40:51.839
<v Speaker 1>reason is fascinating because the curvature inside the black hole

0:40:51.880 --> 0:40:55.320
<v Speaker 1>is so strong that the singularity inside of the black

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:59.160
<v Speaker 1>hole is not like a location in space. Space and

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:03.160
<v Speaker 1>time get twisted so that singularity is a location in time.

0:41:03.800 --> 0:41:05.720
<v Speaker 1>You can think of it like inside the black hole,

0:41:05.960 --> 0:41:10.120
<v Speaker 1>space is one directional, so the singularity is always in

0:41:10.160 --> 0:41:13.960
<v Speaker 1>your future. No matter what you do, every path leads

0:41:14.000 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 1>to the singularity. So the singularity is not like a

0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:19.839
<v Speaker 1>place in space you can like fly by and try

0:41:19.840 --> 0:41:23.080
<v Speaker 1>to avoid. It's not like the grocery store. You can

0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:25.480
<v Speaker 1>go to it or you cannot go to it. It's

0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:28.640
<v Speaker 1>like next Tuesday. There's nothing you can do to avoid

0:41:28.719 --> 0:41:31.919
<v Speaker 1>Next Tuesday. It's coming. You can't pass it, you can't

0:41:31.960 --> 0:41:34.040
<v Speaker 1>go around it. It's in your future.

0:41:34.440 --> 0:41:37.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay. So before we were talking about being in a

0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:42.080
<v Speaker 2>light cone where aliens were going to destroy us, Yeah,

0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:46.280
<v Speaker 2>and there could be a singularity, and now we're talking

0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:48.560
<v Speaker 2>about singularities in a black hole.

0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so the connection is so remember we're answering

0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:55.440
<v Speaker 1>the question what is a Cowshie horizon. Cawshi horizon is

0:41:55.480 --> 0:41:58.960
<v Speaker 1>a place in space where predictions break down, and they

0:41:59.000 --> 0:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>break down because you have a singularity in your past

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:05.719
<v Speaker 1>like cone, it's like in your history. And singularities are infinities.

0:42:05.840 --> 0:42:08.560
<v Speaker 1>You can't use them to calculate. And it's a special

0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.279
<v Speaker 1>kind of singularity because the normal kind of singularity we're

0:42:11.280 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 1>talking about, the kind that are inside vanilla black holes,

0:42:14.680 --> 0:42:18.279
<v Speaker 1>are not like that. They're in your future. A singularity

0:42:18.320 --> 0:42:21.040
<v Speaker 1>inside a vanilla black hole can never be in your

0:42:21.080 --> 0:42:24.759
<v Speaker 1>past like cone. It's always in your future, right, It

0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:28.239
<v Speaker 1>can't affect anything that's happening. It's always something that's going

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:31.360
<v Speaker 1>to happen to you. So how do you get a

0:42:31.440 --> 0:42:34.480
<v Speaker 1>singularity in your past like cone so you can disrupt

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:37.160
<v Speaker 1>your predictions of the future. For that, you need a

0:42:37.200 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 1>special kind of black hole. You need a rotating black hole.

0:42:41.520 --> 0:42:43.840
<v Speaker 1>Black holes we've been talking about so far just a

0:42:43.960 --> 0:42:47.920
<v Speaker 1>dense point in space. Curvature is really really strong. Space

0:42:48.000 --> 0:42:50.560
<v Speaker 1>is bent so that the singularity is in your future.

0:42:51.080 --> 0:42:53.759
<v Speaker 1>But if you spin that black hole, you get a

0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:57.360
<v Speaker 1>very different kind of space time structure. Something that happens

0:42:57.360 --> 0:43:01.680
<v Speaker 1>in Einstein's gravity, which differentiates it from Newton's gravity. Newton

0:43:01.719 --> 0:43:05.479
<v Speaker 1>says gravity's a force. Einstein says it's a curvature. Most

0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:07.879
<v Speaker 1>of the time they give the same answers, but they

0:43:07.920 --> 0:43:12.279
<v Speaker 1>differ when the mass is spinning. Newton says something that's

0:43:12.280 --> 0:43:14.600
<v Speaker 1>spinning has the same force as something that's not spinning.

0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:17.120
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't make any difference, like the force on the

0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Moon from the Earth doesn't depend on the fact that

0:43:19.400 --> 0:43:23.440
<v Speaker 1>the Earth is spinning. According to Newton, Einstein says, actually,

0:43:23.440 --> 0:43:26.400
<v Speaker 1>gravity is curvature in response to energy. Spinning is a

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 1>kind of energy, And he's got all these complicated equations.

0:43:30.560 --> 0:43:33.000
<v Speaker 1>It's like sixteen of them in a big tensor. So

0:43:33.120 --> 0:43:36.840
<v Speaker 1>the direction matters, and it causes a twist in space

0:43:36.920 --> 0:43:39.840
<v Speaker 1>time itself. So it's a very complicated response to spinning.

0:43:40.520 --> 0:43:43.040
<v Speaker 1>And so what it means is that inside a spinning

0:43:43.080 --> 0:43:47.400
<v Speaker 1>black hole there's two horizons. There's still the event horizon,

0:43:47.480 --> 0:43:49.799
<v Speaker 1>just like a normal black hole. Once you fall in

0:43:49.800 --> 0:43:53.560
<v Speaker 1>the event horizon, there's an inner horizon that's the Cauchy horizon.

0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:56.880
<v Speaker 1>The Cauhi horizon is still in your future. So you

0:43:56.960 --> 0:43:59.200
<v Speaker 1>fall into the spinning black hole, then there's no way

0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.880
<v Speaker 1>to avoid falling in even further till you get past

0:44:01.920 --> 0:44:06.160
<v Speaker 1>the Kaushi horizon. Once you're inside the Caushi horizon, then

0:44:06.200 --> 0:44:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the spinning singularity at its heart is not in your future.

0:44:10.719 --> 0:44:14.080
<v Speaker 1>It's a different kind of singularity. It's actually avoidable. You

0:44:14.120 --> 0:44:17.759
<v Speaker 1>can like be in an orbit around that singularity. It's

0:44:17.800 --> 0:44:20.600
<v Speaker 1>not just in your future. It's more like the grocery

0:44:20.640 --> 0:44:25.160
<v Speaker 1>store than like next Tuesday. The problem is that that

0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:27.480
<v Speaker 1>means it can be in your past. It can affect

0:44:27.680 --> 0:44:30.080
<v Speaker 1>things that happen to You can like send out signals

0:44:30.239 --> 0:44:33.240
<v Speaker 1>from the singularity which can arrive at you and change

0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:35.920
<v Speaker 1>what happens to you. But nobody knows how to calculate

0:44:36.000 --> 0:44:38.600
<v Speaker 1>what signals what a singularity send out. It's an infinity,

0:44:38.640 --> 0:44:42.480
<v Speaker 1>it's a breakdown. So inside the Cashi horizon, you have

0:44:42.560 --> 0:44:44.759
<v Speaker 1>this thing which can be in your past, but it's

0:44:44.800 --> 0:44:47.440
<v Speaker 1>also sort of nonsense, like you don't know how to

0:44:47.480 --> 0:44:50.200
<v Speaker 1>calculate it, and because of that, it means you can't

0:44:50.239 --> 0:44:52.920
<v Speaker 1>predict what's going to happen. So you have a situation

0:44:53.040 --> 0:44:56.160
<v Speaker 1>in the universe where you have something in your past

0:44:56.320 --> 0:44:59.000
<v Speaker 1>like cone which can affect your future. We're not talking

0:44:59.000 --> 0:45:02.239
<v Speaker 1>about faster than like communication. But also you don't know

0:45:02.320 --> 0:45:05.400
<v Speaker 1>how to calculate it, so you can't predict your future.

0:45:05.800 --> 0:45:07.600
<v Speaker 1>It's like you were saying before, if you don't have

0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:10.320
<v Speaker 1>all the initial information, if you can't describe the current

0:45:10.360 --> 0:45:12.880
<v Speaker 1>state of events, you can't predict the future. Well, what

0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:16.000
<v Speaker 1>if there's something that's just indescribable in your current state

0:45:16.040 --> 0:45:18.759
<v Speaker 1>of events, then you can't predict the future. So the

0:45:18.840 --> 0:45:21.880
<v Speaker 1>Caushi horizon is the part of space time inside a

0:45:21.920 --> 0:45:25.960
<v Speaker 1>spinning black hole where you have this singularity in your past,

0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.440
<v Speaker 1>and so predictions are just off, like you just cannot

0:45:29.480 --> 0:45:32.800
<v Speaker 1>make them. It's amazing because you think of classical physics

0:45:32.840 --> 0:45:37.480
<v Speaker 1>as predictable, deterministic, like a clockwork universe, But there are

0:45:37.600 --> 0:45:39.400
<v Speaker 1>places where it goes crazy.

0:45:39.719 --> 0:45:42.359
<v Speaker 2>Does every black hole have a singularity in it?

0:45:42.719 --> 0:45:45.600
<v Speaker 1>Every black hole has a singularity in it according to

0:45:45.800 --> 0:45:49.880
<v Speaker 1>general relativity. Now we don't think general relativity is correct.

0:45:49.960 --> 0:45:52.680
<v Speaker 1>In fact, it probably breaks down at exactly this place,

0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:57.160
<v Speaker 1>the singularity. So in reality in our universe, are there

0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.400
<v Speaker 1>places where you can't predict the future? Probably not, because

0:46:00.440 --> 0:46:02.520
<v Speaker 1>all of this is probably wrong, and we need quantum

0:46:02.520 --> 0:46:05.040
<v Speaker 1>gravity to describe what's going on here. And in fact,

0:46:05.160 --> 0:46:08.440
<v Speaker 1>singularity is an example of why we think general relativity

0:46:08.480 --> 0:46:12.040
<v Speaker 1>is probably wrong, because singularities, they are very existence is

0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:15.560
<v Speaker 1>in conflict with quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics itself is

0:46:15.600 --> 0:46:19.160
<v Speaker 1>actually kind of deterministic. It doesn't predict the exact outcome,

0:46:19.160 --> 0:46:22.400
<v Speaker 1>but it predicts the probabilities in a very deterministic and

0:46:22.400 --> 0:46:25.600
<v Speaker 1>specific way. So this would also mess up the determinism

0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:29.759
<v Speaker 1>of quantum mechanical probabilities. So most is just think, yeah,

0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:33.239
<v Speaker 1>this is interesting little quirk in the calculations when you

0:46:33.280 --> 0:46:36.520
<v Speaker 1>assume the universe is classical, but nobody thinks that it is,

0:46:36.880 --> 0:46:40.000
<v Speaker 1>and so it's probably irrelevant to reality. But it is

0:46:40.040 --> 0:46:44.799
<v Speaker 1>a fascinating little corner of general relativity where predictions are

0:46:44.960 --> 0:46:47.960
<v Speaker 1>just not possible. And that's why spinning black holes, which

0:46:47.960 --> 0:46:51.000
<v Speaker 1>are probably in reality much more common than non spinning

0:46:51.040 --> 0:46:54.560
<v Speaker 1>black holes, have this two stage structure. They have an

0:46:54.600 --> 0:46:57.160
<v Speaker 1>event horizon and the caushi horizon.

0:46:57.400 --> 0:47:01.600
<v Speaker 2>Okay, So, given what you just said, if you had

0:47:01.920 --> 0:47:06.000
<v Speaker 2>to guess if any of this stuff is actually going on,

0:47:06.640 --> 0:47:09.040
<v Speaker 2>would you guess zero? Okay? Got it? Okay?

0:47:09.280 --> 0:47:13.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, all right, Joe, thank you for your curiosity about

0:47:13.760 --> 0:47:17.480
<v Speaker 1>spitting black holes and inner horizons and Cawshi manifolds. Let

0:47:17.480 --> 0:47:19.280
<v Speaker 1>me know if that answered your question.

0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:23.120
<v Speaker 3>Wow, No, I think I got about eighty percent of that.

0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:28.000
<v Speaker 3>A spinning black hole with an event horizon where causality

0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:33.200
<v Speaker 3>breaks down. That's fade worse than spaghetification, I think. But

0:47:33.360 --> 0:47:38.840
<v Speaker 3>maybe spaghetification is the future that we can't predict with certainty,

0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 3>although I think I'd be pretty certain to avoid the

0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:45.400
<v Speaker 3>caushi horizon.

0:47:46.120 --> 0:47:55.839
<v Speaker 2>Thanks a lot, Thank you everyone for sharing your curiosity

0:47:55.880 --> 0:47:57.680
<v Speaker 2>with us. If you have a question you'd like to

0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:01.719
<v Speaker 2>send our way, send it at questions as Danielankelly dot org.

0:48:01.880 --> 0:48:04.040
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0:48:04.160 --> 0:48:06.520
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0:48:06.239 --> 0:48:09.120
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0:48:23.000 --> 0:48:23.360
<v Speaker 2>Thanks