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Speaker 1: If you get up early to walk the dog, you

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Speaker 1: might wonder why all the morning.

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Speaker 2: Fog does blood rush to the head of upside down bats?

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Speaker 2: Or do adaptations help deal with all of that?

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Speaker 1: A spinning black hole is quite the disgrace. It breaks

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Speaker 1: causality all over the place.

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Speaker 2: Whatever questions keep you up at night, Daniel and Kelly's

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Speaker 2: answers will help make it right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to listener questions number thirty four on Daniel and

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Speaker 1: Kelly's Extraordinary Universe.

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Speaker 2: Hello, I'm Kelly Waiter Smith. I study parasites and space,

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Speaker 2: and I'm excited that today we've got nature, We've got

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Speaker 2: we've got black holes, We've got all the good stuff

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Speaker 2: on the show today.

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Speaker 3: Hi.

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I almost certainly

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Speaker 1: don't have a goat giving birth in my backyard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Daniel today was like, Hey, Kelly, do

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Speaker 2: you want to record an hour early? And I was like, well,

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Speaker 2: first I have to see if my goat needs to

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Speaker 2: have a bowel movement or if she's about to give

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Speaker 2: birth early. We've all been there for moms. But but yeah,

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Speaker 2: I and actually I think it was I think it

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Speaker 2: could be both.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So between every segment today, I'm going to run out

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Speaker 2: and check on my goat and see how she's doing.

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Speaker 1: That's right. You could all be witnesses to the miracle.

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Speaker 2: Of life, that's right. Yeah, I know, or a goat

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Speaker 2: pooping good Yeah, or both or both, probably both, because

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Speaker 2: it's biology.

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Speaker 1: I guess both count as the miracle of life.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: They're both important functions, that's right.

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Speaker 2: You know, when you don't poop, you kind of wish

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Speaker 2: you were dead, I'm guessing. So, so you need both,

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Speaker 2: you need both?

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Speaker 1: All right. Well that's the backdrop. But in the foreground

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Speaker 1: today we are addressing your curiosity. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: questions you have about how the universe works, from six

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Speaker 1: year old wondering about fog on the way to school

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Speaker 1: all the way to the inner horizons of spinning black holes.

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Speaker 2: And I got to tell you, as of today, I

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Speaker 2: am changing my strategy a little bit, because my strategy

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Speaker 2: has been I take questions from listeners that I do

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Speaker 2: not know the answer to, that are hard that I

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Speaker 2: can't figure out quickly, and I put them on my

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Speaker 2: list and those are the ones that end up on

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Speaker 2: the show. And now I only have questions that take

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Speaker 2: me like ten hours or more to answer on my list.

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Speaker 2: And so next time someone asked me a real softball question,

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Speaker 2: I'm throwing that on my list for a listener question

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Speaker 2: episode because I need some easy ones, sort of like

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Speaker 2: sprinkled in there, because this one was a bit.

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Speaker 1: Tough unsolved mysteries of biology. Yeah, I did that too,

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Speaker 1: but I also mix in easier questions that I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people will be interested in answer, or

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Speaker 1: that I think will be fun to joke about with you.

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Speaker 2: Oh oh, those are all good strategies. Yeah, all right, Well,

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Speaker 2: we learn from each other as much as we learn

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Speaker 2: from the listeners, which is lovely. We're all learning from

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Speaker 2: each other. What a great community.

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Speaker 1: And today we're starting with a question from a six

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Speaker 1: year old. This is a future scientist, folks, somebody who

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Speaker 1: looks out in the world and wants to understand what's

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Speaker 1: going on. So let's get started with our first question.

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Speaker 5: Hey, Daniel Kelly, So our son just turns six and

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Speaker 5: he's starting kindergarten this year.

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Speaker 2: With that, we've been getting up earlier in the mornings

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Speaker 2: and he started to notice something.

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Speaker 6: By Jeja Yeho FuG and money.

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Speaker 2: This is such a great question. I love this question.

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Speaker 2: And also I'm particularly excited about fog since we moved

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Speaker 2: out to a farm that has these big fields, because

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Speaker 2: the fog will sometimes roll across the fields, and I

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Speaker 2: am really into zombie movies, and every once in a

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Speaker 2: while I'll look out and as the fog rolls across

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Speaker 2: the field, I'm like the zombies. They must be coming,

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Speaker 2: because it looks like the setting for a zombie movie.

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Speaker 2: And then I'm a little disappointed because this Bomi's never

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Speaker 2: come up out of the fog and I never get

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Speaker 2: to use my taekwondo skills. But that's probably better i'd

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Speaker 2: be dead. So all right, Daniel, where does the fog

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Speaker 2: come from?

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Speaker 1: It's foggy in the morning because fog forms when air

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Speaker 1: gets colder, and so at night it gets colder because

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Speaker 1: it's not as much sunshine, and so it gets foggy.

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Speaker 1: That's the answer I'm aiming at a six year old.

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Speaker 1: But then, of course we can dig in deeper into

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Speaker 1: the science for the rest of the listeners. Does that

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Speaker 1: make sense?

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Speaker 2: I guess I don't know why it getting colder should

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Speaker 2: make it foggy, And I bet the six year old

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Speaker 2: is also saying, give me a better answer. Daniel. This

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Speaker 2: is not why I listen to dKu.

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Speaker 1: All right, fair point, let's dig in. So what is

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Speaker 1: fog anyway? Fog is water. Water can be a solid ice,

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Speaker 1: it can be a liquid that's what we usually call water,

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Speaker 1: or it can be vapor. Okay, that vapor is invisible

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Speaker 1: and he can mix with the air. Or we sometimes

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Speaker 1: say the air is holding that water. You can't see

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Speaker 1: that water when it's but you can tell that it's there,

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Speaker 1: like when you go outside. The air can be humid,

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Speaker 1: which feels sticky, or if you're lucky enough to live

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Speaker 1: in California, the air can feel fairly dry, right, or

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Speaker 1: like I visited Houston recently, where the air is like chewy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't miss that about Houston. Really gotta

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Speaker 2: be honest exactly.

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Speaker 1: But if there's more water then the air can hold,

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Speaker 1: then it condenses out and you get droplets, clouds, steam, fog,

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Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. So the air is kind of

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Speaker 1: like a sponge and that it can hold some water,

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Speaker 1: but if you put too much into it, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: leak out. And so when there's more water in the

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Speaker 1: air that it can hold, then you get fog or

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Speaker 1: then you get rain. And that's called the dew point.

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Speaker 1: The dew point is the temperature where the air is

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Speaker 1: fully saturated, the relative humidity is one hundred percent. It

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Speaker 1: can't hold anymore. And if you go below the dew point,

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Speaker 1: then you get dew where the water like precipitates out

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Speaker 1: into little droplets and forms on plants and stuff.

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Speaker 2: And that's what we call do okay, all right, So

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Speaker 2: at night it gets colder, and the reason that matters

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Speaker 2: is because cold air can hold less water, right.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Warmer air can hold more water, and colder

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Speaker 1: air can hold less water. So if you have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of air and it's got some water in it

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Speaker 1: and it's all fine, and it can handle that much

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Speaker 1: water you're like seventy five percent humidity. Then as you

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Speaker 1: cool that air down, it can't hold as much water.

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Speaker 1: And at some point it passes the temperature where it's

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Speaker 1: at one hundred percent humidity. It's the temperature at which

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Speaker 1: it's holding all the water than it can. Then you

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Speaker 1: pass that, you go even colder, and it can't hold

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Speaker 1: that water anymore, so it comes out of the air

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Speaker 1: and it makes fog. So fundamentally what's happening here is

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Speaker 1: as you say, how much water the air can hold

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Speaker 1: depends on the temperature, and you might wonder, like why

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Speaker 1: is that? Is it related to, for example, how much

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Speaker 1: like salt you can dissolve into water, which also depends

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Speaker 1: on temperature, Like you put salt into water. You can

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Speaker 1: dissolve more salt and water when it's hot than when

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Speaker 1: it's cold.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, So I guess what I'm wondering is, all right,

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Speaker 2: so you're outside on a particular kind of day where

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of moisture in the air and it's warm,

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Speaker 2: and so like, what kind of warm day would result

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Speaker 2: in the air holding as much water as possible? Like

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Speaker 2: would a warm day always hold as much water as

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Speaker 2: possible or does it need to have like rained recently

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Speaker 2: and now there's more water in the air and so

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Speaker 2: it's holding as much water as it can. Basically, my

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Speaker 2: question is why isn't there fog every single morning? And

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Speaker 2: so I'm trying to figure out the conditions that result

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Speaker 2: in one hundred percent water being in the air.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, cool question, So why does it happen sometimes and

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Speaker 1: not other times? So in order for this to happen,

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Speaker 1: you need moist air, you need water to be in

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Speaker 1: the air, and that's why you often see fog like

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Speaker 1: near valleys or near the ocean or near lakes, or

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Speaker 1: after rainy days or in fall when the nights are

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Speaker 1: really really long, so it gets colder at night than

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Speaker 1: it does in the summer. So yeah, you need a

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Speaker 1: source of that water. So if it's rained, or if

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Speaker 1: you have a valley with a river or a lake

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Speaker 1: or something, you need a source of that water in

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Speaker 1: order to make it moist. So you ask, like, what

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Speaker 1: kind of day is going to be like hot and

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Speaker 1: moist something where it rained or where there's a nearby

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Speaker 1: body of water to evaporate from. You need that source

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Speaker 1: of water and you need to get it up into

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Speaker 1: the air on that hot day, and then you need

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Speaker 1: to cool it down. And the best way for that

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Speaker 1: to happen is for the night to be clear so

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Speaker 1: there's good cooling because otherwise some of that heat is

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Speaker 1: going to be reflected by the clouds back at the earth.

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Speaker 1: For there to be very light winds because winds tend

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Speaker 1: to mix up the hot and the cold air, and

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Speaker 1: for the ground to be as cold as possible. So

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Speaker 1: on a clear night with light wind and cool ground

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Speaker 1: after a rainy day or near a lake, you're very

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Speaker 1: likely to get fog.

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Speaker 2: Okay, awesome, Now let's give me why do I want

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Speaker 2: to know about salt.

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Speaker 1: Also, when I was reading about this, I was thinking

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Speaker 1: about air being saturated by water and imagining that maybe

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Speaker 1: it was similar to dissolving something into a solution. Like

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Speaker 1: you know how you can put salt into water and

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Speaker 1: then you don't see it right. It's not visible the

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Speaker 1: same way that there can be like water in the air,

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Speaker 1: but you're not looking at it right. It's like held

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Speaker 1: by the air, And so I imagined that it was similar.

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Speaker 1: Maybe this is the same kind of process. You can

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Speaker 1: use your intuition. It turns out it's not. Yeah, when

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Speaker 1: you dissolve salt into water, the salt actually forms bonds

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Speaker 1: with the water. It's like actually a chemical solution. But

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Speaker 1: water in the air is just more like a mixture

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Speaker 1: of gases. You have like a mixture of air and

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Speaker 1: water vapor. So it's not a great analogy. So for

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Speaker 1: those people listening and thinking you can use your intuition

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Speaker 1: for salt and water to understand air and water, that's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a trap. So don't go down that hole.

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Speaker 1: But there is something really fascinating happening here. Chemically, we

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Speaker 1: talked about the dew point, the temperature beyond which things

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Speaker 1: precipitate out into the air. It's not actually quite so simple.

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Speaker 1: What's really happening is you have condon at every temperature,

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Speaker 1: and you also have evaporation at every temperature. What happens

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Speaker 1: when you cross the duw point is that you have

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Speaker 1: more condensation than evaporation. So above the due point, you

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Speaker 1: have more evaporation than condensation, so the air is taking

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Speaker 1: in more water if you like, are injecting water somehow,

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Speaker 1: then the air is gobbling that up, whereas below the

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Speaker 1: due point you have more condensation than evaporation, so the

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Speaker 1: air is losing the water. So it's a smooth transition

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Speaker 1: as you cross the due point between being dominated by

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Speaker 1: condensation and being dominated by evaporation. And this helps you

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Speaker 1: understand why it's temperature dependent also because imagine the air

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Speaker 1: and you have all these molecules of air, and then

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Speaker 1: you also have water in the air, right, But there's

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Speaker 1: no bonds between the water and the air, but there

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Speaker 1: are bonds between the water molecules. So you have a

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Speaker 1: droplet of water in the air like a little in

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Speaker 1: one piece of fog, like a fog particle or a

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Speaker 1: foggino or whatever. Then it's held together by little bonds

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Speaker 1: because water is polar, remember, and so like one end

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Speaker 1: of it is charged positive, one end of his charge negative,

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Speaker 1: so it can kind of stick together. So water molecules

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Speaker 1: when it's a little drop of fog are bound together

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Speaker 1: by these hydrogen bonds between the molecules, and in order

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Speaker 1: to evaporate, they have to have enough energy, enough kinetic

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Speaker 1: energy to evaporate. So as the temperature goes up, more

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Speaker 1: of these things have enough kinetic energy to break those

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Speaker 1: bonds and evaporate into the air. So that's why at

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Speaker 1: higher temperatures there's more water that can bounce around without

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Speaker 1: getting stuck to other little water molecules and making little

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Speaker 1: fuggy know, particles. So it's all about the temperature of

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Speaker 1: the water really and force. The temperature of the air

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Speaker 1: and the water are the same because they're an equilibrium.

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Speaker 2: So what do you think it is about foggy mornings

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Speaker 2: that make zombies more likely to be moving around? You

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Speaker 2: look a little frustrated.

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Speaker 1: Actually, sorry, I pride myself in being able to prepare

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Speaker 1: for almost any question. You're going to ask, Wow, you

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Speaker 1: totally caught me slash footed. So here's a completely impromptu answer.

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Speaker 1: The Foggino particles interact with the zombie field, and so

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Speaker 1: there's a resonance between those two, and so sometimes the

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Speaker 1: zombie field will get energy from the Foggino particles and

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Speaker 1: then you'll just precipitate zombies out of the quantum vacuum.

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Speaker 2: Holy wow. Yeah, oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Also that was complete nonsense and so.

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Speaker 2: Obviously, but that was amazing. You used all the right

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Speaker 2: words in all of the fancy ways, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I think maybe we should start doing like a supernatural

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Speaker 2: sort of podcast, and then maybe we could get ahead

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Speaker 2: of Oh, what is the show that's ahead of us

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Speaker 2: watch Chronicles. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, that's just a lesson and how easy it is

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Speaker 1: to sound like you know what you're talking about if

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Speaker 1: you use big, fancy words, even if you're spewing gibberish.

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Speaker 2: Yes, all right, anyway, okay, so sorry, back to the

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Speaker 2: fogginos and okay, so so do in the morning fog

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Speaker 2: that has settled on plants and stuff exactly. Side note,

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Speaker 2: just to like Kelly being a nature nerd. One of

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Speaker 2: my favorite things in the morning is to walk through

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Speaker 2: our hayfields and see all of the teeny tiny little

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Speaker 2: spiderwebs that I always miss, but you can see them

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Speaker 2: because the dew has settled on them. There are literally

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Speaker 2: thousands of them out there. There's this tiny little universe

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Speaker 2: that you can only see in the morning when the

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Speaker 2: dew makes it visible and you miss it otherwise. And

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Speaker 2: it's just like when you look at the world at

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Speaker 2: different scales, there's all of these things that you missed

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Speaker 2: at the scale that you live. And anyway, I love

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Speaker 2: walking in the morning, like when you can still see

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Speaker 2: what the dew makes visible, and a good reason to

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Speaker 2: get up early.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes in high school I had to get up early

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Speaker 1: for marching band, and the field was always covered in

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Speaker 1: dew which is then frozen. Oh and crunching on those

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Speaker 1: frozen blades of grass that was always so satisfied.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, I thought you were going to say you

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Speaker 2: didn't like that, So yes, two positive stories about getting

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Speaker 2: up early.

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Speaker 1: I did not like getting up early for marching band.

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Speaker 1: That was the one good thing about it. The first

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Speaker 1: in grass, you know, it's satisfying. The way like stepping

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Speaker 1: on a frozen river and cracking that ice is also satisfying.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you feel that way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I like that. I like that. Can I

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Speaker 2: share one negative getting up early story? And then we

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Speaker 2: really need to get back? Should we just get back

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Speaker 2: on track? Maybe we should just get back on track?

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Speaker 1: Well, why don't you say it? And it's not funny enough?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 3: All right?

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Speaker 2: So when I was in high school, senior year of

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Speaker 2: high school, I worked at a bakery at a zoo,

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Speaker 2: and I had to get there at five am to

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Speaker 2: cook the cookies before everyone got there. And one morning

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Speaker 2: I was feeling super grumpy and I was like, I

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Speaker 2: can't who in high school gets a job where you

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Speaker 2: have to be there at five am? What am I thinking?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 2: And so I get there and this little bird lands

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Speaker 2: on a fence and it starts singing this beautiful song,

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Speaker 2: and I'm like, okay, all right, this is why you

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Speaker 2: get here?

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Speaker 1: And was there fog?

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Speaker 2: I don't remember. I don't remember that.

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Speaker 1: I just remember telling there has to be fogg to

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Speaker 1: connect to the question, and.

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Speaker 2: There was fog, but no zombies and anyway, singing this

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Speaker 2: beautiful song, and then out of nowhere, a raptor comes

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Speaker 2: by and literally oops the bird up and rips its

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Speaker 2: neck out, and I was like, that's mornings for you. Yes,

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Speaker 2: that feels a little bit more on key, and anyway,

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Speaker 2: I felt so bad for that.

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Speaker 1: That's biology for that.

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Speaker 2: That's biology for you, and anyway that felt Yeah. I

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Speaker 2: was like, no, right, okay, that's right. This is why

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Speaker 2: you don't get up in the mornings early birds, I

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Speaker 2: don't know they get their next ripped out.

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Speaker 1: Be careful early birds because in the morning there's fog

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Speaker 1: and the raptors can swoop down out of their hiding

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Speaker 1: places in the mist. That's right, all right, So chance,

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Speaker 1: send this explanation to your six year old and let's

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Speaker 1: see if we've scratched that itch or confused them with

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Speaker 1: stories of raptors and zombies.

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Speaker 6: And kids so much. Nine questions. I think it's cool, Sponge.

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Speaker 6: I don't have any questions, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're back and we're answering questions from listeners as

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Speaker 1: well as giving live updates on Kelly's goat.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's staying in the show.

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Speaker 1: Huh Kelly, did your goat give birth?

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Speaker 2: No? Not yet, not yet. She was chewing her cut

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Speaker 2: and she got up to say hi. When I went

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Speaker 2: out to check on her. So she is not in

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Speaker 2: active labor right now, but her utters are bigger, so.

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Speaker 1: I think we're are they utterly huge?

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Speaker 2: They're not utterly huge yet, but her bag has expanded,

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Speaker 2: as the vet said, So.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm gonna milk these jokes as as I can.

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Speaker 2: Amazing, amazing, and I'm going to see how many zombie

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Speaker 2: references I can get in there, so we'll this is

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Speaker 2: gonna be a great show.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: Well, the next question is not about goats or zombies

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Speaker 1: or even vampires, but it is about bat.

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Speaker 2: Ooh yes, so this is a question from Huntington. And

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Speaker 2: this is also a question that involves a child, which

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Speaker 2: I love, so yeah, and absolutely keep sending us questions

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Speaker 2: that you and your kids have, or just questions your

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Speaker 2: kids have, and so let's go ahead and hear the question.

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Speaker 4: Now, Hi, Daniel and Kelly, We're probably blame more. Kelly,

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Speaker 4: My son and I were reading about bats and the

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Speaker 4: book said that bats have valves in their circulatory system,

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Speaker 4: so the blood can't rush to their heads when they

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Speaker 4: are upside down and make them dizzy. Why Some then.

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Speaker 6: Asked why ol geckos get dizzy.

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Speaker 4: I'm wondered if gecko's had something similar in their bodies

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Speaker 4: to bats. I looked but couldn't find the answer and

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Speaker 4: was hoping you could help out.

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Speaker 1: Thank you boy, this is a great question. But before

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Speaker 1: we understand like bats and geckos getting dizzy, you like,

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Speaker 1: what does it mean to get dizzy? Anyway? Why do

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Speaker 1: humans get dizzy? What is that all about?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, So when I get a question, one of

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Speaker 2: the first things that I do is I like break

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Speaker 2: the question into pieces, and then you have to check

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Speaker 2: the premise of each part of the question. You know,

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Speaker 2: not because you don't trust the list, but because, like

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Speaker 2: you know one, you just want to make sure that

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Speaker 2: everybody understands all the different parts of the question. So

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Speaker 2: the first part of the question here is why do

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Speaker 2: you get dizzy? And so what's implicit in this question

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Speaker 2: here is that what makes you dizzy is the blood

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Speaker 2: rushing to your head. And you know, maybe when the

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Speaker 2: blood rushes to your head, it can't get back to

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Speaker 2: your heart and so it doesn't get oxygenated, or maybe

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Speaker 2: it's the change and the fluid pressure in your head.

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Speaker 2: But actually getting dizzy is a very complicated thing and

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Speaker 2: it can be caused by a lot of different things.

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Speaker 2: So I was looking at like a MAO clinic website,

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Speaker 2: and anxiety can make you dizzy? Really, yeah, apparently. And

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Speaker 2: folks who study virtual reality and who try to make

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Speaker 2: those virtual reality headsets have been sort of amazed at

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Speaker 2: the many different ways that humans can become dizzy when you,

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Speaker 2: you know, put them in a virtual reality setup and

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Speaker 2: they'll report like, oh, no, that made me dizzy. Now

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Speaker 2: I kind of want to puke, you know. No, you're underwater.

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Speaker 2: Setup didn't calm me down. It made me feel like

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Speaker 2: the world is spinning. And so anyway, being dizzy is

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Speaker 2: a complicated thing. But let's look at two potential reasons

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Speaker 2: for getting dizzy. Let's go ahead and dig into the

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Speaker 2: one that's implied in the question first, which is blood

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Speaker 2: rushing to your head.

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Speaker 1: Blood rushing your head makes you dizzy. I always thought

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Speaker 1: it was low blood pressure that made you dizzy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So for me, when I stand up and you know,

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Speaker 2: I have less blood in my head for a moment,

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Speaker 2: that is what makes me dizzy. And I'll admit I

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Speaker 2: shared some of this question on Blue Sky. I did

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Speaker 2: get some responses from people being like, blood rushing to

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Speaker 2: my head doesn't get me dizzy. It's blood rushing out

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Speaker 2: of my head right, that makes me dizzy. And so

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Speaker 2: it did seem like there was a general agreement that

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Speaker 2: it's the getting up that makes you dizzy, not the

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Speaker 2: blood rushing to the head that makes you dizzy. But

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Speaker 2: there were folks trying to understand how maybe blood rushing

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Speaker 2: to the head could make you dizzy, and the general

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Speaker 2: consensus was that maybe what's happening is that when the

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Speaker 2: blood rushes to your head, you know, one you get

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Speaker 2: a pressure increase. Maybe that's a bit disorienting. But two,

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Speaker 2: maybe the blood is pool in your head, and when

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Speaker 2: it pools in your head, perhaps you get low oxygen

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Speaker 2: because your body is used to gravity helping you get

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Speaker 2: the blood down right, and so it's less good at

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Speaker 2: pumping the blood away from your head when your head

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Speaker 2: is in the wrong orientation, and so maybe it's not

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Speaker 2: oxygenating as well under these conditions. And so maybe under

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Speaker 2: these lower oxygen conditions and this higher pressure, it's making

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Speaker 2: you sort of dizzy. I see, And again I'm not

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Speaker 2: actually sure that that does cause dizziness. There was some

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Speaker 2: debate about that, but the statement that was made in

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Speaker 2: this book was that for bats this isn't a problem.

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Speaker 2: Even though they sleep upside down because their circulatory system

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Speaker 2: has valves, and these valves essentially keep the blood from

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Speaker 2: pooling in the head, and so I think the idea

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Speaker 2: here would be that they make it so the blood

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Speaker 2: can't flow in the wrong direction and pool. And so

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Speaker 2: that was the statement. And so the question was bats

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Speaker 2: have these valves? Do geckos have the valves too?

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Speaker 1: And I guess humans don't have these valves because humans

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Speaker 1: can't be upside down for very long with other their

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Speaker 1: heads popping or something.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, okay, so the equivalent of being upside down

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Speaker 2: essentially would be like being in space. So when you

438
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,159
Speaker 2: are in space, if it's something you know that's right, yes, yeah, right.

439
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:20,480
Speaker 2: I was like, I don't know the answer to that,

440
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,880
Speaker 2: but I know the answer is something else. So when

441
00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,280
Speaker 2: you're in space, the fluids shift up to your head

442
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: and people do report feeling, you know, dizzy and disoriented.

443
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:32,720
Speaker 2: But that is partly maybe because of fluid shifts, but

444
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 2: also because of this other thing that we're going to

445
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,040
Speaker 2: talk about in a moment, which is it messes up

446
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,760
Speaker 2: your vestibular system. Also, you're what system vestibular system hold on.

447
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:43,720
Speaker 2: That's the next thing we're going to talk about. Okay,

448
00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 2: But what we do with our fluid shifts is we

449
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,440
Speaker 2: pee a lot, and so our body releases a lot

450
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:53,800
Speaker 2: of fluids because our body is like, there's too much

451
00:21:53,840 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: pressure up here. We're kind of confused about it, and

452
00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,000
Speaker 2: so you urinate a lot, you lose a lot of

453
00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: the fluid. But we do think that you still have

454
00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:04,479
Speaker 2: problems resulting from having too much fluid in your head. So,

455
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 2: for example, astronaut vision gets worse over time, and we

456
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,239
Speaker 2: think partly that's because you do have more pressure in

457
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: your head because of more fluids in your head, and

458
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 2: we think that's pressing on your eyeballs. And people also

459
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,880
Speaker 2: report that there are wrinkles go away because with more

460
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 2: fluid in their faces, it kind of presses out the

461
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:26,520
Speaker 2: wrinkles in their skin and so but they survive. So anyway,

462
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: I think you can essentially have fluids pushing up on

463
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 2: your head and survive. Your body has ways of dealing

464
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,320
Speaker 2: with it. They're kind of weird though.

465
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:35,600
Speaker 1: But bats have these special valves. And now we're on

466
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 1: to geckos.

467
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:37,800
Speaker 2: Okay, but no, or do they?

468
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 3: Oh?

469
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:38,919
Speaker 1: I see.

470
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 2: So the first thing I do is I was like,

471
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 2: all right, well, I'm gonna look it up. Do bets

472
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 2: have these valves? And so I did find some websites

473
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 2: like when I just did a plain Google search that

474
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 2: we're saying like, oh, bats have these valves, blah blah blah.

475
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 2: I was all right, well, I'm gonna find a scientific

476
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: paper that talks about these valves. And I found mention

477
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: of valves in the wings that like help them with flying,

478
00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: but I couldn't find mention of any valves related to

479
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 2: helping them deal with being upside down. And in fact,

480
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: I even found a paper that talked about how bats

481
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 2: sleep upside down, and they were talking about how when

482
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 2: they sleep upside down, there's an increase in their cranial

483
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 2: pressure because fluids shift into their brain, which would suggest, yeah,

484
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,919
Speaker 2: they don't have these valves. And in fact, that paper

485
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 2: did not talk about valves at all, And in fact,

486
00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: they talked about how if you hold bats upside down

487
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: for even longer, their heart remodels to deal with the

488
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: fact that, wow, it needs to accommodate being upside down.

489
00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,280
Speaker 1: But why can it be such a deep mystery whether

490
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: or not bats have these valves. Bats are not like

491
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:45,320
Speaker 1: rare or microscopic or invisible or shifting into zombies in

492
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 1: the morning mist Like, why doesn't somebody just open up

493
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: a bat carcass and look?

494
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,679
Speaker 2: Okay, Well, so here's the thing. Another valve story that

495
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: I've heard a lot, and I'm going to answer your question,

496
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,880
Speaker 2: just stick with me for a second, is that giraffes

497
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,200
Speaker 2: have these valves also because they have these very long necks, right, yeah,

498
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 2: and then when their head goes down to take a

499
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,119
Speaker 2: drink of water, they also need to have valves to

500
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 2: make sure that their blood isn't rushing to their head

501
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,200
Speaker 2: and then rushing back. Right.

502
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm imagining some like complicated steampunk giraffe now energetically pumping

503
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: stuff up and then pumping it back when the head

504
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: turns around. This is a crazy system.

505
00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 2: Well, so the idea is that they've got these valves

506
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,919
Speaker 2: so that the blood like is essentially stopped from like

507
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,560
Speaker 2: pooling in the wrong spots. And so there was an

508
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,520
Speaker 2: experiment that had these giraffes that they anestatized and they

509
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 2: held them up in the air in these braces, and

510
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: then they essentially while they were anestatized, lifted their heads

511
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: up and then put their heads down and then kept

512
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 2: track of like where things were going.

513
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: So they're like, they're like tilting these snoozing giraffes. What

514
00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 1: a hilarious experiment.

515
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I know, amazing, Right, And so then

516
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:50,479
Speaker 2: they were like monitoring changes in pressure and then like

517
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 2: looking at like how the hearts were responding and stuff

518
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 2: like that. And they then they looked and that like

519
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,240
Speaker 2: you know, where are the valves and stuff? And here

520
00:24:58,640 --> 00:25:03,359
Speaker 2: it says his biological examinations revealed no valves in the

521
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 2: carotid arteries, although such arterial vowels have been mentioned in

522
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,160
Speaker 2: more popular accounts such as the Encyclopedia Britannica online.

523
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: Oh no, wow, you're calling out the Encyclopedia Britannica here, Kelly.

524
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 2: I am not the paper is the paper is. And

525
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 2: so I think that there has been like this vowelves

526
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,280
Speaker 2: deal with being upside down idea that has maybe escaped

527
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 2: into the popular imagination.

528
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,960
Speaker 1: Another example of a gap between scientific and popular.

529
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 2: Knowledge, maybe, And I'd love to know where this came from.

530
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,240
Speaker 2: And so anyway, so okay, basically what I'm saying is

531
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 2: I watched a bunch of videos and the bat experts,

532
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: when you ask them how bats managed to be upside down,

533
00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 2: they did not mention the valves. What they said was

534
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 2: bats are so small it doesn't matter. Oh, they have

535
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 2: strong hearts, and the distance between their heart and their

536
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 2: head is small enough that they can just pump it

537
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 2: and it's okay. Their hearts just get stronger if they

538
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: need to. And they didn't say anything about valves. They

539
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 2: just said they're small enough, doesn't matter. And I couldn't

540
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 2: find any evidence of valves.

541
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: This is a fascinating crossover between physics and biology. Actually,

542
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: it's not like you can take the same biological system

543
00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 1: and just like scale it up by a thousand or

544
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,719
Speaker 1: scale it down by a thousand and assume it's going

545
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: to operate the same way, because like pressure and volume

546
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 1: and surface area and mass, these things all grow differently

547
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:29,800
Speaker 1: with size, and so they'll be like totally out of

548
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: whack if it gets too big or too small. So

549
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: you're saying the same system, which is susceptible to getting

550
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: dizzy and having blood pooling at our scale or maybe

551
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,679
Speaker 1: even giraffes, doesn't happen for bats.

552
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,400
Speaker 2: I think that is the answer, because like the bat experts,

553
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: we're not mentioning the valves. I couldn't find the valves

554
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 2: in the literature. If anybody wants to write into correct me,

555
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 2: please tell me. And then in a future Listener Questions episode,

556
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: at the beginning of the episode, I will say, there

557
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: is evidence of the valves and I just missed it.

558
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 1: Send us proof of the alleged bat valves.

559
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 2: Well, I mc daniel and I would always like to

560
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 2: be corrected if we're wrong about something, So please let

561
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: us know.

562
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: Don't be shy right in with your well, actually comment.

563
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 2: Please you please, absolutely, okay. And so another reason that

564
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,719
Speaker 2: we get dizzy is because we have this system in

565
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: our head that helps us figure out like balance and

566
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 2: where we are in the universe in this system. So

567
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: I use the word earlier, and I will, for Daniel's sake,

568
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: avoid biology jargon from here on out after I say

569
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:27,800
Speaker 2: the word one more time.

570
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: Is this vestibular?

571
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 2: Vestibular? It's in your inner ear and it's a system

572
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 2: of tubes filled with fluid, and when you move, like

573
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 2: when you rotate your head side to side, the fluid

574
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:44,320
Speaker 2: starts going around the tube.

575
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: It's an accelerometer.

576
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: It is, Yeah, it's like an accelerometer.

577
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:48,440
Speaker 1: It is an accelerometer.

578
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: It is an accelerometer, and your brain detects that the

579
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: fluid is going around in that tube, and sometimes so

580
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,959
Speaker 2: like if you start spinning in place over and over

581
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,199
Speaker 2: and over again, the fluid in that tube is going

582
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: to start spinnings and spinning and spinning and spinning. And

583
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 2: then if you stop spinning all of a sudden, it's

584
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,119
Speaker 2: going to take a little while for that fluid to

585
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 2: stop spinning. And so for a little while there, your

586
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: brain still gets the message that you are spinning, while

587
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 2: your eyes are telling your brain, I am not spinning.

588
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 2: And we think that that disconnect between what your ear

589
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:21,400
Speaker 2: is telling your brain and what your eyes are telling

590
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: your brain is part of why you feel dizzy, because

591
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: you're getting conflicting information. And to be honest, we don't

592
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:28,679
Speaker 2: one hundred percent understand dizziness.

593
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 1: Has nobody done the experiment of taking a bunch of

594
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: giraffes and putting them on a merry go around and

595
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: then you don't even remember about whether they got dizzy.

596
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: That seems like that would settle the question.

597
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, we need a lot of money for that experiment.

598
00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 2: Probably call us that's right, that's right, we will take

599
00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: your money. But it does suggest actually that if you

600
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: spin in the opposite direction, that could slow the fluid down,

601
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 2: and that might be a way to help your dizziness

602
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: go away faster, which is kind of a fun experiment.

603
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,360
Speaker 1: Medical advice people, not medical advice.

604
00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 2: Kelly is never giving official medical advice. I am not

605
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 2: that kind of doctor.

606
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: If your kid is dizzy, do not spin them the

607
00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:11,280
Speaker 1: other way on our No, it's just an interesting thought experience.

608
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. And so we've got tubes that

609
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 2: go in multiple different directions to accommodate for spinning in

610
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 2: multiple different directions. And then we also have a system

611
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: of essentially crystals that are tied to hairs, and this

612
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: tells you about moving it like forward and backwards. And

613
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 2: so if you go forward really quick, then those crystals

614
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: are gonna get pushed forward and they'll pull on the hairs.

615
00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:38,440
Speaker 2: And that's how your body knows that, like, oh, we

616
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: just kind of moved forward, and that sends a message

617
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: to your brain that we move forward.

618
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 1: No, we accelerated, Kelly, we accelerate.

619
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 2: We accelerate, thank you, thank you.

620
00:29:45,400 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: Your ear can tell that you're moving or that heads

621
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: velocity can only measure acceleration. It's like a bowling ball

622
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: in the back of a truck, right it's seventy miles

623
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: an hour in the highway. The bowling ball doesn't move,

624
00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 1: but if you hit the brakes, then the bowling ball

625
00:29:57,560 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: rolls to the front. So even if you didn't know

626
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: you're a lo and you couldn't measure your acceleration in

627
00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: any other way, if you watch the ball, you can

628
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,480
Speaker 1: tell if you're accelerating in any direction. And that's what's

629
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: happening in your ear. It's an accelerometer.

630
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, So we've got two different kinds of accelerometers

631
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: in our ears, and geckos and bats have these as well.

632
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: Presumably geckos and bats could get dizzy also if they

633
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: moved too quickly and messed with these kinds of accelerometers.

634
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: And so I'm guessing they have the same kinds of constraints,

635
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: because I did look up do geckos, for example, also

636
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 2: have semicircular ducks, and they do also have these kinds

637
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: of semicircular canals, and so you know, I think they

638
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 2: could possibly also get dizzy. They've got the same system

639
00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: that we have.

640
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: I think I might have a special mutation because I

641
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:48,959
Speaker 1: tend to get dizzy when I hear too many biological

642
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 1: Latin names.

643
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: You know, I wanted to talk to you about that

644
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,920
Speaker 2: because you told me that you wanted me to say

645
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 2: things like beetle one and beetle two, And I was

646
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 2: thinking that from now on, we're not saying muons, gluons,

647
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 2: no fermions, no bosons. It's particle one, particle two.

648
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: Uh.

649
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: And what's that's right? Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna simplify

650
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,320
Speaker 2: all of this from from now on. Okay, So anyway

651
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 2: to finally answer the question, why don't geckos get dizzy?

652
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, Uh, nobody knows, that's right.

653
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: Who knows. I think they might get dizzy. They I

654
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,320
Speaker 2: think they have a similar semi circular canal system that

655
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: we have, and sometimes we get dizzy. Sloths hang upside down.

656
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: And I think the answer for why they don't get

657
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: dizzy is they move kind of slowly. That's an answer

658
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 2: I found online. So maybe geckos also have to be

659
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: a little careful about moving slowly sometimes. But if they're

660
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,120
Speaker 2: running away from a predator, maybe they do get a

661
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:44,840
Speaker 2: little bit dizzy from time to time, but they just

662
00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 2: have to deal with it like the rest of us.

663
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 2: I don't know about this valve thing. I didn't find

664
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 2: evidence for it. But I'm welcoming people to correct me.

665
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 2: And thanks for this fun question. I enjoyed reading about

666
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: semi circular canals and the circulatory systems of bats and geckos,

667
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: and this took me down so many different rabbit holes, fascinating.

668
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:04,480
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun.

669
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: That's one of my favorite things about listener questions is

670
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: how can we learn in digging up the answers?

671
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: Absolutely all right, let's see if I gave a moderately

672
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 2: satisfactory answer to Huntington and your son. Let's see how

673
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 2: this went.

674
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 4: So what do you think?

675
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 6: That's pretty good? That's pretty good.

676
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:24,720
Speaker 4: It's pretty good.

677
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,720
Speaker 6: I'm wanted to I mean, I can't good. Okay, this

678
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 6: is googgs leazing. I need to catch Thank.

679
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 5: You for breaking down the question and exposing the assumptions

680
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 5: we didn't even know we were making. I'm honestly surprised

681
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 5: to learn that bats and giraffes don't have valves like

682
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 5: we had read about. I guess that is a lesson

683
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 5: about trusting and verifying the information we read in popsie books.

684
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 5: I guess I shouldn't have been surprised to learn that

685
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 5: for something we've all experienced. There is not a clear

686
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 5: explanation for dizziness, but I still was. My son enjoyed

687
00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 5: the answers and was very satisfied with them, something that

688
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 5: I have never been able to provide with my answers.

689
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:30,040
Speaker 5: So thanks again and keep up the great work.

690
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 2: All right, Worshock almost got out of the barn. Lottie's

691
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 2: looking a bit uncomfortable. I'm gonna be sitting with her

692
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 2: for the hour after we're done. But all right, we're

693
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,880
Speaker 2: back to Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe and the extraordinarily

694
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: fun watching of goats kidding.

695
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: In the brief interval before Kelly's Good gives birth, we're

696
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: gonna try to answer a complicated question about what's going

697
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: on inside spinning black holes. Here's a fun question I

698
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,240
Speaker 1: got from Joe.

699
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 3: Hi, Daniel and Kelly. This question is more for Daniel.

700
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: I understand that the inner workings of a black hole

701
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,760
Speaker 3: are a mystery to us, But I heard something about

702
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: a couchy manifold. It's some kind of inner horizon, and

703
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 3: I'm wondering how these complex mathematics might be explained.

704
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 2: Oh, this is fun. I don't think I know what

705
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,719
Speaker 2: a couchy manifold is did I say it right?

706
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: Koushi? Yeah?

707
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,480
Speaker 2: Caushi? Well no are The answer is no because that's

708
00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: not what I said. But you're nice.

709
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:40,319
Speaker 6: I like that.

710
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: We can call it kouchy if you prefer to. Imagine

711
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 1: like sitting on a couch while understanding these things.

712
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I like sitting on a couch while understanding

713
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: the universe. So what is a cat Oh no, I

714
00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 2: already forgot Koushi caushe So.

715
00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: A cauchy horizon is where causality breaks down. And this

716
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,280
Speaker 1: is going to be really surprising because we're talking about

717
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: classical physics, which is famous for being deterministic, which means that,

718
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,719
Speaker 1: like the past determines the future. You have a bunch

719
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: of billiard balls, you shoot them at each other, they

720
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: bounce off at some angle. They're going to do that

721
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 1: every time. Because the past determines the future. There's no fuzziness,

722
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:23,760
Speaker 1: there's no randomness. We're ignoring quantum mechanics completely for this answer.

723
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: Imagine we live in a universe ruled by classical physics.

724
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,880
Speaker 1: Usually we think, and we talked about this on the

725
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,719
Speaker 1: Weather Modeling episode. If you know everything about the universe,

726
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,879
Speaker 1: like where all the particles are where they're going their

727
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:42,840
Speaker 1: exact stated universe. Plus you know the rules of the universe,

728
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,880
Speaker 1: meaning like how things interact and how they will bounce

729
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,399
Speaker 1: off of each other, then you can predict the future. Right,

730
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: So perfect knowledge of the current state plus perfect knowledge

731
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: of the rules, you should be able to predict the future.

732
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: That's causality in a nutshell.

733
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,319
Speaker 2: Sure, but I thought we also determined that it was

734
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:06,400
Speaker 2: also a little too complicated and we couldn't actually predict

735
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 2: the future. But technically we should be able to if

736
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 2: we could do those complicated equations.

737
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, absolutely, if you had perfect knowledge of the universe,

738
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: which you never do, not even because of quantum mechanics,

739
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: but because there's just too much information. Like in the

740
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: case of the weather, we don't have enough booies out

741
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: in the ocean, and we don't have enough airplanes with

742
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 1: thermometers on them. We don't have all that information. But

743
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: in principle, that's a practical problem and engineers could overcome it.

744
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,280
Speaker 1: The information exists and is accessible in a classical universe,

745
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:42,319
Speaker 1: which isn't our universe. So there's lots of reasons why

746
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: this could never happen. But if you imagine a classical universe.

747
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: It is possible in principle to have that information. It

748
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: exists and in that classical universe, because we've assumed the

749
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: universe is classical and that there are rules, and if

750
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: we knew those rules, then in principle, we could perfectly

751
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: predict the future.

752
00:36:58,440 --> 00:36:58,799
Speaker 2: Got it.

753
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: Okay, that's the same, But there are some caveats, right,

754
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:04,879
Speaker 1: and those caveats are what we're talking about today. Cave

755
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,319
Speaker 1: At number one is about the speed of light, and

756
00:37:07,360 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: it's not actually directly related to the country horizon, but

757
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: it's a good warm up because what you actually need

758
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: to bridge the future is not all the knowledge in

759
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: the universe about what's happening. Some things in the universe

760
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: can't affect your immediate future. The only thing that can

761
00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 1: affect the immediate future is parts of the universe where

762
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: light has had time to get here since that event. So,

763
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,560
Speaker 1: for example, if there's an alien right now in Alpha

764
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 1: Centauri and they're aiming a death ray at us, and

765
00:37:37,080 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: they fire the button boom right now to shoot that

766
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: death ray at us, it cannot affect what's going to

767
00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: happen right here on Earth in the next millisecond, because

768
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: there isn't time for that death ray to get here.

769
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:51,680
Speaker 1: So we say in physics, it's not part of our

770
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: past light cone. Our past light cone is everything that

771
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: can affect the immediate future. And because there's a speed

772
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: limit on infrom and signaling, then things that can't get

773
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: here are outside of that past like cone.

774
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 2: Okay, I understand. It still feels like there's an approximately

775
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: infinite number of things we can't measure, and we've knocked

776
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: a small fraction of them out. But but but okay,

777
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: but all right, there's some things now we don't have

778
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:18,240
Speaker 2: to worry about.

779
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: But of course that death ray will eventually arrive at Earth,

780
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: and in a couple of million years, that alien shooting

781
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:28,000
Speaker 1: that deathray, that event will be in the past like

782
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 1: cone of our future. Right, So it's a time dependent thing.

783
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: Our past like cone, is not just a location. It's

784
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,560
Speaker 1: locations and times. It's events in space time. Some of

785
00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,919
Speaker 1: those things that are outside our past like cone right

786
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 1: now can be in the past like cone of people

787
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: in our future. Right because aliens, if they shoot that

788
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: death ray, can kill our great great great great great

789
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: great great great grandchildren.

790
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 2: Okay, got it? So wait, what is the question that

791
00:38:53,600 --> 00:38:56,439
Speaker 2: we're trying to answer, then are we trying to answer

792
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 2: who's going to die? Because then it seems very relevant

793
00:38:58,960 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 2: to them.

794
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,920
Speaker 1: So we're trying to answer what is a Cauchhi horizon?

795
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 1: And a Cauchhi horizon is a place where you cannot

796
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 1: predict the future? Okay, all right, And they might wonder

797
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: how does that happen? What's going on? Classical physics, things

798
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,760
Speaker 1: are deterministic. In fact, they only depend on a subset

799
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 1: of the universe, your past light cone. How is it

800
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,560
Speaker 1: possible to have in classical physics a setup where you

801
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,160
Speaker 1: can't predict the future. And the answer is if you

802
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: have something in your past light cone like a singularity,

803
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 1: which is like a breakdown of classical physics, something that's unpredictable.

804
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,080
Speaker 2: Okay.

805
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: The short answer is that a Caushi horizon is what

806
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 1: happens inside a spinning black hole where there's a singularity

807
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: inside your past light cone. And a singularity is not

808
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: something you can fold into your equations because it has

809
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,640
Speaker 1: an infinity in it, and so it makes it impossible

810
00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,480
Speaker 1: to predict the future. Okay, So let's dig into that

811
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:55,600
Speaker 1: a little bit more and understand why that happens. And

812
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: to do that, let's remember what a black hole is anyway.

813
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: A black hole in popular science is often like a

814
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,320
Speaker 1: thing in space that has really strong gravity and sucks

815
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,760
Speaker 1: everything up right. But actually gravity is not a force,

816
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:12,800
Speaker 1: it's curvature of space. Time objects are moving to follow

817
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 1: that curvature, and black holes are just places with really

818
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: really strong curvature because you have a lot of mass

819
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 1: and a small area, so the curvature gets really really strong,

820
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: and it gets so strong that you get an event horizon.

821
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 1: Event horizon is like a dotted line in space, and

822
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: anything that goes inside the event horizon will never leave

823
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,719
Speaker 1: the event horizon. Okay. So that means that a particle

824
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: inside the event horizon, its entire future is in the

825
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: event horizon. There's no place in the event horizon and

826
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: no particle trajectory you could even come up with that's

827
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: ever going to leave the event horizon, okay. And the

828
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,839
Speaker 1: reason is fascinating because the curvature inside the black hole

829
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,320
Speaker 1: is so strong that the singularity inside of the black

830
00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: hole is not like a location in space. Space and

831
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: time get twisted so that singularity is a location in time.

832
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: You can think of it like inside the black hole,

833
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: space is one directional, so the singularity is always in

834
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 1: your future. No matter what you do, every path leads

835
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: to the singularity. So the singularity is not like a

836
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,839
Speaker 1: place in space you can like fly by and try

837
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 1: to avoid. It's not like the grocery store. You can

838
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: go to it or you cannot go to it. It's

839
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 1: like next Tuesday. There's nothing you can do to avoid

840
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,919
Speaker 1: Next Tuesday. It's coming. You can't pass it, you can't

841
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:34,040
Speaker 1: go around it. It's in your future.

842
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 2: Okay. So before we were talking about being in a

843
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 2: light cone where aliens were going to destroy us, Yeah,

844
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:46,280
Speaker 2: and there could be a singularity, and now we're talking

845
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 2: about singularities in a black hole.

846
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so the connection is so remember we're answering

847
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: the question what is a Cowshie horizon. Cawshi horizon is

848
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: a place in space where predictions break down, and they

849
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: break down because you have a singularity in your past

850
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: like cone, it's like in your history. And singularities are infinities.

851
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: You can't use them to calculate. And it's a special

852
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: kind of singularity because the normal kind of singularity we're

853
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 1: talking about, the kind that are inside vanilla black holes,

854
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,279
Speaker 1: are not like that. They're in your future. A singularity

855
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: inside a vanilla black hole can never be in your

856
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 1: past like cone. It's always in your future, right, It

857
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: can't affect anything that's happening. It's always something that's going

858
00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:31,360
Speaker 1: to happen to you. So how do you get a

859
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: singularity in your past like cone so you can disrupt

860
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 1: your predictions of the future. For that, you need a

861
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: special kind of black hole. You need a rotating black hole.

862
00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: Black holes we've been talking about so far just a

863
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,920
Speaker 1: dense point in space. Curvature is really really strong. Space

864
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: is bent so that the singularity is in your future.

865
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: But if you spin that black hole, you get a

866
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: very different kind of space time structure. Something that happens

867
00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:01,680
Speaker 1: in Einstein's gravity, which differentiates it from Newton's gravity. Newton

868
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,479
Speaker 1: says gravity's a force. Einstein says it's a curvature. Most

869
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:07,879
Speaker 1: of the time they give the same answers, but they

870
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: differ when the mass is spinning. Newton says something that's

871
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 1: spinning has the same force as something that's not spinning.

872
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,120
Speaker 1: It doesn't make any difference, like the force on the

873
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 1: Moon from the Earth doesn't depend on the fact that

874
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 1: the Earth is spinning. According to Newton, Einstein says, actually,

875
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 1: gravity is curvature in response to energy. Spinning is a

876
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:30,520
Speaker 1: kind of energy, And he's got all these complicated equations.

877
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: It's like sixteen of them in a big tensor. So

878
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: the direction matters, and it causes a twist in space

879
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: time itself. So it's a very complicated response to spinning.

880
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: And so what it means is that inside a spinning

881
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 1: black hole there's two horizons. There's still the event horizon,

882
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: just like a normal black hole. Once you fall in

883
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: the event horizon, there's an inner horizon that's the Cauchy horizon.

884
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: The Cauhi horizon is still in your future. So you

885
00:43:56,960 --> 00:43:59,200
Speaker 1: fall into the spinning black hole, then there's no way

886
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,880
Speaker 1: to avoid falling in even further till you get past

887
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:06,160
Speaker 1: the Kaushi horizon. Once you're inside the Caushi horizon, then

888
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: the spinning singularity at its heart is not in your future.

889
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 1: It's a different kind of singularity. It's actually avoidable. You

890
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,759
Speaker 1: can like be in an orbit around that singularity. It's

891
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,600
Speaker 1: not just in your future. It's more like the grocery

892
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 1: store than like next Tuesday. The problem is that that

893
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: means it can be in your past. It can affect

894
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: things that happen to You can like send out signals

895
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,240
Speaker 1: from the singularity which can arrive at you and change

896
00:44:33,239 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: what happens to you. But nobody knows how to calculate

897
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 1: what signals what a singularity send out. It's an infinity,

898
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: it's a breakdown. So inside the Cashi horizon, you have

899
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:44,759
Speaker 1: this thing which can be in your past, but it's

900
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:47,440
Speaker 1: also sort of nonsense, like you don't know how to

901
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 1: calculate it, and because of that, it means you can't

902
00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: predict what's going to happen. So you have a situation

903
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:56,160
Speaker 1: in the universe where you have something in your past

904
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,000
Speaker 1: like cone which can affect your future. We're not talking

905
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 1: about faster than like communication. But also you don't know

906
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: how to calculate it, so you can't predict your future.

907
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: It's like you were saying before, if you don't have

908
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,320
Speaker 1: all the initial information, if you can't describe the current

909
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,880
Speaker 1: state of events, you can't predict the future. Well, what

910
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 1: if there's something that's just indescribable in your current state

911
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:18,759
Speaker 1: of events, then you can't predict the future. So the

912
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 1: Caushi horizon is the part of space time inside a

913
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: spinning black hole where you have this singularity in your past,

914
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: and so predictions are just off, like you just cannot

915
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: make them. It's amazing because you think of classical physics

916
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: as predictable, deterministic, like a clockwork universe, But there are

917
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,400
Speaker 1: places where it goes crazy.

918
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,359
Speaker 2: Does every black hole have a singularity in it?

919
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: Every black hole has a singularity in it according to

920
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:49,880
Speaker 1: general relativity. Now we don't think general relativity is correct.

921
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 1: In fact, it probably breaks down at exactly this place,

922
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 1: the singularity. So in reality in our universe, are there

923
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,400
Speaker 1: places where you can't predict the future? Probably not, because

924
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,520
Speaker 1: all of this is probably wrong, and we need quantum

925
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,040
Speaker 1: gravity to describe what's going on here. And in fact,

926
00:46:05,160 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: singularity is an example of why we think general relativity

927
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 1: is probably wrong, because singularities, they are very existence is

928
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:15,560
Speaker 1: in conflict with quantum mechanics, and quantum mechanics itself is

929
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,160
Speaker 1: actually kind of deterministic. It doesn't predict the exact outcome,

930
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: but it predicts the probabilities in a very deterministic and

931
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: specific way. So this would also mess up the determinism

932
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 1: of quantum mechanical probabilities. So most is just think, yeah,

933
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: this is interesting little quirk in the calculations when you

934
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,520
Speaker 1: assume the universe is classical, but nobody thinks that it is,

935
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:40,000
Speaker 1: and so it's probably irrelevant to reality. But it is

936
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: a fascinating little corner of general relativity where predictions are

937
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 1: just not possible. And that's why spinning black holes, which

938
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: are probably in reality much more common than non spinning

939
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: black holes, have this two stage structure. They have an

940
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: event horizon and the caushi horizon.

941
00:46:57,400 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 2: Okay, So, given what you just said, if you had

942
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 2: to guess if any of this stuff is actually going on,

943
00:47:06,640 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 2: would you guess zero? Okay? Got it? Okay?

944
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:13,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Joe, thank you for your curiosity about

945
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: spitting black holes and inner horizons and Cawshi manifolds. Let

946
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,280
Speaker 1: me know if that answered your question.

947
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:23,120
Speaker 3: Wow, No, I think I got about eighty percent of that.

948
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 3: A spinning black hole with an event horizon where causality

949
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 3: breaks down. That's fade worse than spaghetification, I think. But

950
00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:38,840
Speaker 3: maybe spaghetification is the future that we can't predict with certainty,

951
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: although I think I'd be pretty certain to avoid the

952
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 3: caushi horizon.

953
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:55,839
Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Thank you everyone for sharing your curiosity

954
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: with us. If you have a question you'd like to

955
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 2: send our way, send it at questions as Danielankelly dot org.

956
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,040
Speaker 2: We would love to interact with you.

957
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: Please do write to us. We're not just saying.

958
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 2: That, and we would massively appreciate it if you'd be

959
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 2: willing to leave us a review on Spotify, Apple, on

960
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 2: whatever podcast app it is that you listen to us on.

961
00:48:15,920 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 2: It helps other people find the show.

962
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 1: And if you reviewed us several years ago and you're

963
00:48:19,719 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: thinking that doesn't apply to me, come back review us

964
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: again to the new show.

965
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:23,360
Speaker 2: Thanks