1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:03,320 Speaker 1: Long Shot is a production of McClatchy Studios and I 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Previously on Return Man, he made some kind 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: of thing with about I just never realized that having 4 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: so much money would create so many problems. When someone 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: was in they get altered state. Anyone who says that 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: they didn't know it, bullshit, Yes they did. I saw 7 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: him one day and the top to he Hi, my 8 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 1: name is Brett McCormick. I work at a newspaper in 9 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: South Carolina. Have you got some time to talk? Hey? 10 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 1: How are you? I'm Carlin second time, absolutely today the 11 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Lancaster County Corner is Carlin Knight. Deee. Do you know 12 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: much about what I'm wanting to talk to you about? 13 00:01:03,960 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: I don't. Okay, Yeah, it's been a while, Okay, Yeah. 14 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: She was elected corner in We met at her office 15 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: in Lancaster and I'll show you. Oh wow, these were 16 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: our own books. These is the person I initially called 17 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: to find an autopsy report for Jim Duncan to see 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: what a medical professional might have determined about the former 19 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: Super Bowl hero who died of a gunshot inside the 20 00:01:30,360 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: Lancaster police station. Back when all sorts of records were 21 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: kept by hand that crazy. It's funny to watch, like 22 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: our your own kids come in and they'll do research 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: projects and they sit in the conference room deer in 24 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: the handlights because you can't recursive. I just was about 25 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: to say that surely I figured there had to have 26 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: been an autopsy done, except that after searching her records, 27 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: told me she couldn't find anything. Historically, Corners didn't really 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,480 Speaker 1: have office, says, so I'm in this state still don't 29 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: and they would keep all their records in their home, 30 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,920 Speaker 1: and somebody did have a house fire, so I'm going 31 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,239 Speaker 1: to speak it like probably. Unfortunately, the year that you're 32 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: looking for, along with many other years, is missing, just 33 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:18,360 Speaker 1: totally missing. Okay, there's another place where a lot of 34 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:21,520 Speaker 1: them are archived, which is in our basement of the 35 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,480 Speaker 1: county building records. There's not mini boxes there, but we 36 00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: went through all of them. Nothing in that year, along 37 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: with several other in the seventies, which is totally non existing, 38 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 1: so we know nothing about it. It's no secret Jim 39 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: was in a fragile mental state when he died. The 40 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 1: combination of financial and career induced anxiety, possible drug abuse, 41 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: even a potential traumatic brain injury could have explained, the 42 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 1: twenty six year old taking his own life, but his 43 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: family and friends still have questions that linger to this day, 44 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: and the more I researched this story, the less confident 45 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 1: I became that law enforcement back Ino had even tried 46 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: to answer them. We try to fill every single gap 47 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: before we close a case. We have families come in 48 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: a lot with questions and we vet those answers out 49 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: for them right their own spot. That's our job, is 50 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: to serve these folks. There's a frame sign on Diesu's 51 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: desk intended for visitors, many of whom are seeing her 52 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: on the worst days of their lives. The sign says, 53 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: it is my duty to provide you with a fair 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 1: and accurate investigation. It is my honor to do so 55 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 1: with pride, honesty, and integrity. That's my saying right there. 56 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 1: I don't care who you are, where you come from, 57 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: or what your lifestyle has ended up being. Somebody somewhere 58 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: cares about you, and it is our job to provide 59 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: these answers to your surviving family and treat you equally 60 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: and fairly. Coming on in front of the goal post 61 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: at the two yard line, the duncan up to the 62 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: fifth dead it seemed clear to me that des prides 63 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: herself on Lancaster County offering transparency today that clearly hadn't 64 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 1: happened in Jim's case. That's the outside. If authorities had 65 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: done even basic things actions taken in almost all police investigations, 66 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: including many at the time, a suicide verdict might have 67 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: been accepted in Lancaster. If providing a full account of 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: Jim's death had been a primary goal for law enforcement, 69 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 1: then so many questions wouldn't have persisted for nearly fifty years. 70 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:46,840 Speaker 1: So how come it wasn't from the Herald McClatchy Studios 71 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,240 Speaker 1: and I Heart Radio. This is return man. I'm Brett McCormick, 72 00:04:51,520 --> 00:05:04,000 Speaker 1: and this is part five the Police Station m testing 73 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: the audio for the library in Lancashire, South Carolina. All Right, 74 00:05:09,320 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: who goes? I've spent countless hours in libraries and pouring 75 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: through university and newspaper archives trying to better understand what 76 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,560 Speaker 1: happened in the police station and the events that followed. 77 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:27,280 Speaker 1: Sens the skill that I don't think many millennials possess. 78 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:36,839 Speaker 1: Manybody to use a microphone machine excuse okay, a councilor 79 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: often secondhand and as you'd expect, sometimes conflict. A few 80 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: official details come from one source law enforcement. Do you remember, um, 81 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 1: what was your job with the department that cold October morning? 82 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: The dispatcher behind the counter was a new trainee named 83 00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:59,839 Speaker 1: George Lloyd. Yeah, that were you, Okay, that was what 84 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: job was. Do you remember how the station was laid out? 85 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 1: I mean, was there like a front desk. We spoke 86 00:06:06,240 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 1: briefly by phone at his home outside Lancaster. He declined 87 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: to appear in this podcast, but he repeated to me 88 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: the official version of the story. Just um, and just 89 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: to be clear, So you were you were sitting at 90 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: the desk and he just walked right by you. According 91 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: to Lloyd, Lieutenant Henson had just arrived at the police station. 92 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 1: He was going through the mail, and Lloyd told me 93 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: Henson was leaning on the counter with his back to 94 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:37,159 Speaker 1: the front door. Moments later, Jim entered the station. Okay, 95 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: and he just went right on past you. Lloyd told me. Quote, 96 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: this guy walks in and got about halfway across the floor. 97 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: I said, can I help you? And that's when he 98 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: reached and grabbed the lieutenant's gun and stepped back and 99 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 1: shot himself. He added, quote. The lieutenant turned and grabbed 100 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 1: him to try to stop him, but it was too late, 101 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 1: so it was in front of you. Got you okay, 102 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 1: so authorities said. Jim entered the police station, crossed the 103 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: reception area in a few steps, grabbed Hinson's revolver out 104 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: of the lieutenants holster, and shot himself in the head, 105 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: all before Red Hinson could even comprehend what was happening, 106 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: much less stop it. What was your reaction to what happened? 107 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a pretty crazy thing to have happened 108 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: when I guess you had only been there a couple 109 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: of weeks, Lloyd told me, quote, I just ducked behind 110 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: the desk so he wouldn't shoot me. Soon after the shooting, 111 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: another police officer went to the liquor store where Ellery 112 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: worked to tell her Jim was hurt. The former football 113 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: player's body was taken to nearby Springs Hospital. There, he 114 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: was examined by the city corner named Richard Chandler because 115 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: he had to go. When you don't want somebody to die, 116 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: so he had to be there like Correx, so he 117 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,520 Speaker 1: had to go. This is Billy Ray Crawford. He was 118 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: also there at the hospital that day Colbe and Rissell 119 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: was like that we were running together and stuff. He 120 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: wants somebody else to see it to be a window 121 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 1: since it was black and they called me if you 122 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 1: body shop and come up that being Lancaster's corner wasn't 123 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: exactly a full time job, and Richard Chandler spent most 124 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: of his time running an auto body repair shop in town. 125 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: Chandler died in two thousand nine. Crawford, who's now in 126 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: his eighties, was the only black employee at Chandler's repair shop, 127 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: and he'd even seen Jim a few times in the 128 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: month since the football player had come back to town. Yeah, 129 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 1: I've seen most every week ever. Old a week what 130 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 1: would you guys do? Then? Yeah? I heard he was 131 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: good at shooting pool, did you Yeah? Yeah, go to dinner, 132 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: potters and stuff. Everybody know what, right, you know, because 133 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: it was school right and everything. We hung out again 134 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 1: a lot. Did he seem the same as he had 135 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,280 Speaker 1: been or didn't seemed different in anyway or he seemed 136 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: the same same. Yeah, that's what would make it weird 137 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: that he killed himself all of a sudden, right, right, 138 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,199 Speaker 1: you know he was married, right, I don't think a 139 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: lot of people even were aware that he was right. Yeah, 140 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think you're the only one that 141 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 1: doesn't problem. Right right, That's what I've been told. Um, 142 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 1: you got a starlight, right right. Word of Jim's death 143 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:30,680 Speaker 1: spread quickly in such a small town. A friend called 144 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 1: Elroy in Charlotte to tell him his brother had been shot. 145 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,600 Speaker 1: Later that day, Eli called Alison Greenville. By the time 146 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:41,720 Speaker 1: the coroner and Crawford got to the hospital, Jim's body 147 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: had been laid out on a table. He was still 148 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: dressed in what Crawford described to me as jogging clothes. 149 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 1: So you saw his body after he died, yeah, yeah, 150 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:54,559 Speaker 1: we looked like a sail everybody. But he was just 151 00:09:54,640 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 1: laying there like your sleep. Well will be back after this. 152 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: Jim's body was prepared for burial at the McMullen Funeral 153 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: Home in Lancaster, on the east side of Main Street, 154 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: a few hundred feet down a correct asphalt road from 155 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: the St. Paul A m. E. Church. A service for 156 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 1: Jim was held at the church three days after his death. 157 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:28,079 Speaker 1: So he found out the day that he died. How 158 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: quick did you get to Lancaster? Can't go right away? 159 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,319 Speaker 1: Jim's funeral was the first day Alice had been back 160 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:40,680 Speaker 1: to Lancaster. Yeah, you're so young. I don't know. Alice 161 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: declined to lend her voice to this podcast, but we 162 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: spoke for nearly four hours. I think you're part of 163 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,839 Speaker 1: it is to me is like the most heartbreaking because 164 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: not only did you have this crazy event just like 165 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: explode your life, but then after you got my family too. 166 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: And I think that's part of the story. I mean, 167 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: because if you're thinking about how people have dealt with it, 168 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: you're not getting answers from anybody. She had spent the 169 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: past few days thunderstruck by a loss she couldn't understand. 170 00:11:09,920 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: Jim's family seemed to blame her for his career tales 171 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: spin and for Jim being back in Lancaster at all. 172 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: At the same time, Alice's family had been concerned for 173 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: her safety there. She told me, quote, when I went 174 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,240 Speaker 1: to get information as to where his personal things were, 175 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: the police followed me every step of the way, everywhere 176 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 1: I went until I left the city. Friends, neighbors, and 177 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: Jim's old bar Street teammates paid their final respects to Butch. 178 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,040 Speaker 1: The overflow crowd spilled onto the sidewalks. Sandy Gilliam, Jim's 179 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: high school and Maryland State coach, gave a eulogy, and 180 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,240 Speaker 1: the church choir saying, what a friend we have in Jesus. 181 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: Jim was remembered as quote and admired citizen, loved and 182 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 1: respected by all, a beautiful person with an open mind 183 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 1: and friendliness to charm the world. Following the service, a 184 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: caravan of cars drove six miles down US to the 185 00:12:18,440 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: Salem A. M. E. Zion Church Cemetery in nearby Heath Springs. 186 00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: Did you go to his funeral? Yes? Floyd White was 187 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: one of Jim's coaches at bar Street High School. Just 188 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 1: soldom if you don't gonna know, I don't think no, 189 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: go by to cap Hope and say anything enough not that, 190 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:44,880 Speaker 1: but this is solid. As shock and disbelief wore off, 191 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: it was replaced by suspicion in the hearts and minds 192 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: of Jim's family and friends. The official story of Jim's 193 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: death has been clear for decades, but somehow there's little 194 00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:00,200 Speaker 1: official evidence for it. I'd read that Larie didn't either 195 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: body until a few days later, and that Alice so 196 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,040 Speaker 1: didn't see it till a few days later. But that 197 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,320 Speaker 1: had been normal for the way that he died. Well, 198 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: not really, no, no. Glenn Crawford was one of the 199 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: friends who played sandlot ball with Jim as a child, 200 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: and he worked at the funeral home where Jim's body 201 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: was prepared. I'm trying to think now, I don't even 202 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 1: know where they get an autopsy. I can't really think 203 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: what would be the order of operations, Like would it 204 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: have gone to like an autopsy, medical examiner and then 205 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: to you guys. Okay, we'll be the lands one. Yeah, yeah, 206 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,439 Speaker 1: did you see his body? Yeah? What do you remember 207 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: about that? I can't discuss there it is it? Yeah, okay, 208 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: I was gonna say it's it's like a funeral director's code. Yeah, 209 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,360 Speaker 1: I got you. Okay, you didn't work on it though, 210 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,920 Speaker 1: did you? Oh? I will say, okay, well say it 211 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: would don here, but it wouldn't do what I wish 212 00:13:55,240 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: the lex question And in no time at all, Floyd 213 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: White told me. The swirling questions about what exactly happened 214 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 1: in that police station consumed Lancaster. They say he came 215 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: in and the author we had handsome nobody other than that, 216 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: your tempered, cool, good just revolved with and what you 217 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: try to see. But those from talk they say he 218 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: committed suicia, But they say after the funeral, Alice spoke 219 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: with Lancaster police about the incident in the very building 220 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: where Jim died. Alice was told by police that, as 221 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: unbelievable as it might have seemed, Jim grabbed Lieutenant Henson's 222 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: revolver with his right hand, raised the gun to his head, 223 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: and shot himself behind his right ear. Yet Alice insisted 224 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: to me that in a different conversation she had at 225 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: the time with Jim's mortician, the mortician told her Jim 226 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: had been shot behind his left year. She said to me, quote, 227 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,840 Speaker 1: how can you shoot yourself on your left side when 228 00:15:05,880 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: you're right handed? Wow? Because a lot of the stories 229 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: said that he shot himself on right here, So why 230 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 1: would you pull it? Yeah, we're just about ready to 231 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: get the second half underway. The public called Jim Duncan. 232 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,040 Speaker 1: In the days following Jim's death, anger grew in Lancaster 233 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: and the NFL community beyond well knowing Speedy about as 234 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: well as anyone outside of his family knew him. I'll 235 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: never believe that Bob Grant was Jim's best friend on 236 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: the Baltimore colts the story he grabbed one of the 237 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 1: policeman's guys and shot himself. I'll never believe that he 238 00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: did that. Never one good is ming a duncan a 239 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: real threat. Eddie Hinton was the cultural receiver who faced 240 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 1: Jim every day in practice suicide with police good okay 241 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: back in, Lancaster Police Chief Larry Louer apparently kept control 242 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,120 Speaker 1: over the investigation. He told reporters he was taking it 243 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: upon himself to handle the investigation into Jim's death personally. 244 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: That was unusual. Hypothetically, if that happens this day in time, 245 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: the agency, let's just say, if it did happen at 246 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: a police station, that agency backs out immediately. Sure Lancaster's 247 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: current corner Carla die. They're not involved in their own investigation. 248 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 1: Normally another agency will come in when we have something 249 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:54,720 Speaker 1: that's that questionable. I actually have a forensic criminologist who 250 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: I retained. I would call her in at the beginning 251 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: before we ever remove the body. When you have something 252 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: like that, if you're not an expert in the area, 253 00:17:06,760 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: you need to seek out experts. Following Jim's death, Lancaster 254 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,760 Speaker 1: police requested some help from sled the South Carolina State 255 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 1: Law Enforcement Division where it would be for a minute. Yes, okay, 256 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: I've got the file pulled up. Tom Barry was the 257 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: Freedom of Information Act coordinator at SLED when I began 258 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: researching this story. He has since retired. We did not 259 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: do investigation. We did lab work for the investigating agency, 260 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 1: so we did not independently investigate. There would have been 261 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: some kind of paperwork. When your request came in. We 262 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: literally went back to the card catalog for those old cases, 263 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: going back that far that we could not find anything 264 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:09,159 Speaker 1: under the name James Duncan, Jim Duncan, Jimmy Duncan. We 265 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: didn't find anything related to those names in any of 266 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: the investigative files. Following Jim's death, Lancaster Police discovered a 267 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,840 Speaker 1: water pipe in his car, which was parked a few 268 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: blocks away. The pipe was one of the things Lancaster 269 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:30,200 Speaker 1: Police sent to sled's Columbia Crime Lab for analysis. There, 270 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: SLED performed three separate tests, and the results were written 271 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 1: in sloping cursive. Yeah, it looks like firearms, blood alcohol 272 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 1: at drug analysis. That much were certain of because Barry 273 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: sent me the grainy photocopied scans of those results. In 274 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:54,040 Speaker 1: response to my FOYA request for that firearm test sled 275 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: analyze Lieutenant Russell Henson's gun and the plane lead bullet 276 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 1: recovered from the floor near Jim's body. The man who 277 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: performed that test a sled was Senior Agent f. Dan 278 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: de Frieze. All right, my name is Brett. I work 279 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: at the newspaper in rock Hill, and uh, I'm actually 280 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: looking at a sled lab report from two that signed 281 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: the Frieze, and I'm thinking that maybe you're the person 282 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 1: that did the test. I reached the Freeze at his 283 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: home outside Colombia and we spoke in broad terms. After 284 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: performing thousands of these tests in his career, the routine 285 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: analysis Lancaster Police requested didn't stand out. You're referring to 286 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: a compatibility test to determine, if possible, whether a particular 287 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: bullet was fired by a particular gun darrel, and that 288 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: is possible to do, and we did it an awful 289 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: lot of it. You know, I don't remember this case 290 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: at all. I have you know, don't know anything about 291 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 1: this case. You know, just just doesn't what you've told. 292 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: But you know, in such cases it would be very 293 00:19:56,520 --> 00:20:00,719 Speaker 1: common for us to confirm that bullet was hard by 294 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: the gun. According to SLEDS documentation, the Frieze found that yes, 295 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 1: the bullet that killed Jim was fired by Lieutenant Henson's 296 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: smith and Wesson. In the second test, Lancaster police wanted 297 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: to know Jim's be A or blood alcohol level at 298 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: the time of his death. That's to determine whether or 299 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: not he was drunk when he entered the police station, 300 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: and according to SLEDS analysis, the answer was no. It 301 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 1: appears Lancaster police also wanted Jim's blood checked for hard 302 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: drugs because quote plus heroin was written on that same 303 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: request for him Speedy developed problem addiction to heroin. No, 304 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,239 Speaker 1: I never actually saw him do it, but I had 305 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: heard from our old teammates Speedy has this problem. But 306 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: sled couldn't test Jim's blood for drugs. At the bottom 307 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: of the report, a phrase was scribbled sample Q and 308 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:02,440 Speaker 1: S for further analysis. Q and S means quantity not sufficient. 309 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,680 Speaker 1: Carladze told me a Q and S is not unusual 310 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: and the gym's blood on the police station floor or 311 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: on his body was contaminated and not suitable for testing. 312 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 1: The final test was conducted on a water pipe police 313 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: found in Jim's car, which still had liquid in it. 314 00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: The pipe tested positive for marijuana. One more question, would 315 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: um would Slant have had fingerprint capabilities into probably of 316 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:36,439 Speaker 1: some type. Yes, okay. Tom Barry was the Freedom of 317 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 1: Information Act coordinator when I began researching this story. It 318 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: sounds like SLED tested things that the legas a p 319 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: D asked them to test. It appears that fingerprints were 320 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: not among those things they wanted tested. So yeah, that 321 00:21:52,600 --> 00:21:55,480 Speaker 1: was pretty much that was what was requested, and that's 322 00:21:55,520 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: what we did. So Lancaster Police requested three tests which 323 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: confirmed the pipe in Jim's car had once contained pot, 324 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: that he wasn't drunk when he entered the police station, 325 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: and that Lieutenant Henson's gun was the firearm that killed him. 326 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: But none of those tests clarified who fired Henson's gun 327 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: or why. In the aftermath of Jim's death, those were 328 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: the questions threatening to shatter the peace in Lancaster, everybody 329 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 1: got a little more cautious about a lot of things. 330 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: That's the way I see. Glenn Crawford grew up down 331 00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 1: the street from Jim. They played sand lot football together 332 00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: along with Thomas House. What things did you guys get 333 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: more unconscious about white police officers stopped. Yeah, and that 334 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 1: betwen of the time. You know, if you got stuffed, 335 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 1: you made shoot, you let them know that you and 336 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,320 Speaker 1: on the glove or even when you got up downtown 337 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: and somebody knew where you would be cook if they didn't, 338 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 1: you know, you never know. You're looking at the thing 339 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: on TVM and JAH, you know, like down the Salem, Alabama. 340 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: People get dull. Yeah, it didn't never happened to you, right, 341 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 1: we believed through this. We've had to deal with this, 342 00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 1: and he'd deal with it. Canday, we'll be back in 343 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:25,800 Speaker 1: a moment. This is cool. They put um people's occupations 344 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: in the phone book, so this would be right there. 345 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,879 Speaker 1: I love this. James E. Duncan pro ballplayer, Baltimore colts, 346 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: M hmm. Like there's Charlie Duke's He's the twelfth person 347 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,760 Speaker 1: to walk on the moon. It's funny there. Unlike the 348 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: same page, Lancaster Police Chief Lour seems to have rejected 349 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 1: oversight by sled in favor of keeping the investigation of 350 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: Jim's death in house, So it's obviously important to understand 351 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: how his department approached that investor gaition. I'd hope to 352 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: ask Chief Our that myself. It was about the NFL 353 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 1: player that committed suicide in Lancaster, but he practically hung 354 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,040 Speaker 1: up on me when I called, even if he didn't 355 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: want to talk. Now, I figured that Lowers report from 356 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: the time could speak for itself. Unfortunately there isn't one. 357 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: I reached out to Lancaster's current police chief, Scott Grant. 358 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: He arrived in Lancaster in the late nineties and didn't 359 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: know anything about Jim Duncan when I contacted him. Chief 360 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: Grant told me he asked a few employees to check 361 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:39,720 Speaker 1: multiple record storage facilities, but they found nothing related to 362 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: Jim Duncan, no records of any kind. One news report 363 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 1: from nineteen seventy two said Chief Owers team had taken 364 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:52,440 Speaker 1: photographs of Jim's body, so some sort of documentation might 365 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: have existed at some point, But the current police chief 366 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: told me the Lancaster p D moved in n to 367 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 1: a new building and the old one where Jim died 368 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: had been demolished, So Grant said it's possible those historic 369 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: records didn't survive the move, but that also means it's 370 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: impossible to verify what sort of investigation Chief our really 371 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: did after Jim's death. Well, let's be a little bit cautious. 372 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: Seth Stoughton is a professor at the University of South 373 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 1: Carolina Law School. Investigations into police shootings in the sixties 374 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,119 Speaker 1: do not look like what should be investigations of police 375 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: shootings today. Unfortunately, there are at least some investigations of 376 00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 1: police shootings even today that would have looked pretty normal 377 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,639 Speaker 1: back in the sixties. That's not because the investigations in 378 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: the sixties were so good. That's because even today we 379 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 1: still have some pretty shoety investigations into officer involved shootings. 380 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,680 Speaker 1: Stoughton said that in a case like this, it can 381 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,400 Speaker 1: be easy to judge a small town police department by 382 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: today's big city standards. There were no video cameras in 383 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: the lobby of the Lancaster Police station in nine two, 384 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: much less amras on the bodies of the officers, unlike today. 385 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: They might not have been able to perform gunpowder residue 386 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: tests on people's hands, or analyze stipling, which is the 387 00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: way gunpowder tattoos the area around a close contact gunshot wound, 388 00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,280 Speaker 1: or done a burned pattern analysis on Jim's body and clothes. 389 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: To know how close the gun was to him when 390 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 1: the bullet exploded from the barrel. Also the position and 391 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,760 Speaker 1: angle of the wound. And this is something that I 392 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: would have expected them to have been able to identify. Uh, 393 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: it's not always possible to line up with perfect accuracy 394 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: the penetration pattern of a bullet, and thus to backtrack 395 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: that and say, okay, well the bullet penetrated here, then 396 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,920 Speaker 1: it clearly came off at this angle. But we can 397 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,679 Speaker 1: rule out certain things, right, We can say, okay, well 398 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,920 Speaker 1: it definitely came from somewhere over here as opposed to 399 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: somewhere over here. Stowton was a police officer himself before 400 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:02,720 Speaker 1: he became a lawyer. If they're examining this gunshot wound 401 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 1: and the person is right handed, but it's from over here, 402 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: then we have some questions. It's not impossible, but it 403 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:13,840 Speaker 1: becomes a little bit more improbable when you start to 404 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:20,400 Speaker 1: put together things like distance and angle. Then you can maybe, 405 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: and I'm emphasizing maybe, start to say this looks consistent 406 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: with or this does not look consistent with a self 407 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: inflicted gun John wind. But even being cognizant of standards 408 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 1: in the early seventies, it still seems like there are 409 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,640 Speaker 1: some basic investigative steps that just weren't taken in Jim's case, 410 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: and that's coming from Chief Lour himself. Back in a 411 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,160 Speaker 1: reporter asked him if the Lancaster p D had even 412 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:52,680 Speaker 1: checked Lieutenant Henson's gun for fingerprints. Lour wasn't exactly clear. 413 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: He said, quote, I think that this would involve a 414 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: criminal matter, if that's what it's going to be at 415 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 1: a later date. And I don't see where we should 416 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,880 Speaker 1: divulge any information of that sort. Pressed by the reporter 417 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: as to whether or not there would be a criminal 418 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 1: investigation at a later date, Lower replied, quote, Nope. Back 419 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 1: in the day, at a smaller agency, at a more 420 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 1: rural agency, at an agency that may not have been 421 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: leading the charge of police reform and professionalization, a lot 422 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: of ship happened that never got reported. Stoton hypothetical here 423 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: presumes for the moment the official account of Jim's death 424 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,880 Speaker 1: is entirely accurate. In a case like this, if you 425 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: had anything, you might have a one line or one 426 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: paragraph right up in the watchlog. At oh three pm, 427 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: one man later identified as Jim Duncan entered attempted to 428 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: take an officer's firearm and shot himself. Period done. If 429 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: you had that, nobody's going to jail. The officer are 430 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: never gonna have to testify against anyone because the only 431 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:06,560 Speaker 1: bad actor here, or so to speak, is the decedent. 432 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 1: Why bother. No autopsy was ever performed on Jem's body 433 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 1: or even requested by Chief Lour or the county corner 434 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,200 Speaker 1: at the time, Richard Chandler. At the time, Chandler told 435 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:24,400 Speaker 1: a reporter quote, I could see no value in having 436 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: an autopsy because there was no question as to the 437 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 1: cause of death. So we don't even have independent confirmation 438 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 1: that Duncan actually died from a single gunshot below and 439 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: behind his right ear. That's one thing that I've preached 440 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: our fate, and I said, what you don't understand is 441 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: where the huge freeproopers Carla die is Lancaster County's corner 442 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: now and forty years from now. Somebody needs to be 443 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: able to pull our stuff and it be for the 444 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 1: most part saying list. She stressed to me that over 445 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 1: the past fifty years, increased education, certification requirements, and record 446 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: keeping procedures have all raised the level of professionalism in 447 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 1: her department. You know, historically. I just I don't know 448 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: how people thought or what they did. I can just 449 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 1: tell you how it's transitioned and how we think and 450 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 1: what our policy is now. We have a standing policy 451 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 1: around here that if it is not a natural death, 452 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 1: that's an automatic autopsy. Every vehicle accident, every gunshot, every suicide. Sure, 453 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: you may have a vehicle accident where the person has 454 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:36,479 Speaker 1: multiple blunt force injury. Sometimes we find out that somebody 455 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,080 Speaker 1: had a heart attack going down the road, so that 456 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,720 Speaker 1: changes the course because they actually died a natural death 457 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,560 Speaker 1: from a heart attack, not from a wreck. You know. 458 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: Those sure things we need to figure out. There may 459 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,360 Speaker 1: be some answers in there for the family, there may not, 460 00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:56,240 Speaker 1: but I'm going to try to provide that those are 461 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,520 Speaker 1: exactly the things so many people wanted to know about 462 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: Jim's death in too and still do to this day. 463 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: There are some predictable possibilities to explain what happened. It 464 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: happened the way that the police waiter said it did, 465 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,200 Speaker 1: and they acted appropriately in the aftermath. It happened the 466 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: way the police said it did, and they botched the aftermath. 467 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: It did not happen the way that the officers said 468 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:28,560 Speaker 1: it did, and there is some ineptitude at best, or 469 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: active cover up at worst. We don't know. As I 470 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: looked into this case, I found myself more and more 471 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 1: confused by Lancaster Police at the time. If Jim had 472 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: died exactly the way authority said he did, why did 473 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,120 Speaker 1: so many of their actions after the fact make it 474 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: seem like they could have been hiding something, Even putting 475 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,280 Speaker 1: aside the humanity of providing closure for Jim's family and friends, 476 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: If all Lancaster Police had to do to settle any 477 00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,520 Speaker 1: speculation about their involvement in Jim's death was simply document 478 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: what happened, why wouldn't they have done it? At the time, 479 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 1: officers didn't feel the need to present an authoritative narrative 480 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 1: because their verbal explanations would be enough. At least it 481 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: would be enough for everyone who they cared about. Suddenly, 482 00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: the relative tranquility of that old milltown blew apart at 483 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: the seams, and on part six of Return man looks 484 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: our hero right. They want to say we have the 485 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: police good and shot itself. But I don't believe this. 486 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: There are conspiracies in the world, and growing up in 487 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,800 Speaker 1: the Jim Crows South, you're viewing the world in the 488 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: way in which the world is treated. Was quote room 489 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:46,440 Speaker 1: capathit that come we held a capathitor would and we 490 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 1: have py bony house. It involves rates the mental state 491 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: of the person and a town that was scared to 492 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: death to say anything. I'm Brett McCormick. Return Man is 493 00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: a production of The Herald, McClatchy Studios and I Heart Radio. 494 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,959 Speaker 1: It's produced by Matt Walsh, Kara Tabor, Cotta Stevens, Rachel Wise, 495 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 1: and Davin Coburn. The executive producer for I Heeart Radio 496 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: is Sean Titone. For lots more on this story, go 497 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 1: to Harold online dot com Slash return Man. If you 498 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: have any additional information about Jim Duncan's life or death, 499 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: email us at return Man at Harold online dot com. 500 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 1: To continue supporting this kind of work, visit Harold online 501 00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,840 Speaker 1: dot com slash Podcasts and consider a digital subscription. And 502 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: for more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I 503 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to 504 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: your favorite shows.