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Speaker 1: Welcome, welcome, brocome back to the Bob left Nets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My yesterday it's Chris Stein and Blonde Chris so that

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Speaker 1: taft bond always and the fan you know, it's whether

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Speaker 1: you know. I guess you gathered over the years, but

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Speaker 1: I appreciate your missives. So when we were setting this up,

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Speaker 1: you had a busy schedule. So what was going on there?

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Speaker 1: We've had just been the last three days working up

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Speaker 1: new music, so that's we're very slow. The Blondie situation

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Speaker 1: is glacial in its forward motion, and uh, we were

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Speaker 1: you know, we're starting to get it going down. Let's

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Speaker 1: break it down. What's the process? How do you decide

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Speaker 1: to record? What do you do before you get in

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Speaker 1: the room. We are collect material people, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a bit them all take stuff from outside sources wherever

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Speaker 1: it's coming from. Uh, then the the this time me

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Speaker 1: and the keyboard player and the other guitar player and

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Speaker 1: Debbie get together. Do you started home alone other people

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Speaker 1: started home alone, and then just bring it to the

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Speaker 1: rehearsal room, or do you send it to other members

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Speaker 1: and then they give their feedback. Yes, the latter I

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Speaker 1: not necessarily feedback. Everybody just kind of knows what's good.

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Speaker 1: But I do demos on my home equipment and then

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Speaker 1: send it around and we wind it. We wind up

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Speaker 1: with a big online list. This time we had like

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Speaker 1: twenty five or so pieces that we pick and choose

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Speaker 1: from and those are finished songs, no demos, stuff that

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Speaker 1: might finish. I don't mean the recordings, but the songs themselves. No, No,

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Speaker 1: definitely not. Debbie does a lot of the a lot

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Speaker 1: of I don't write a lot of lyrics. For example, Debbie.

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Speaker 1: I give Debbie of unfinished lyrical ideas with melodies, with

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Speaker 1: melody lines that are suggestions of melodies, and she develops

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Speaker 1: the lyrical ideas. Okay, when you gathered physically, what happens?

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Speaker 1: Then we get together we have by then we have

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Speaker 1: a few of these things chosen and we just go

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Speaker 1: over them. So we went into these last three days

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Speaker 1: we had seven things that we picked out and we

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Speaker 1: just learned them and go over the chords and like that. Okay,

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Speaker 1: need let's just say the music business has changed radically

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Speaker 1: from your late seventies early eighties heyday, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of as they say, I hate this term, but I'll

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Speaker 1: use it any way. Heritage acts don't even record new music.

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Speaker 1: What's the motivation to record new music today? For us,

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Speaker 1: it's just what we do. And it's just like the

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Speaker 1: shark moving forward. And uh, you know, I enjoy it.

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Speaker 1: I hear so much modern stuff that I like. I

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Speaker 1: you know, my what I've all I've said over the

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Speaker 1: years is that of the stuff you here is always crap,

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Speaker 1: but nobody remembers the bad stuff. You know, people are

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Speaker 1: only familiar with the good material. Maybe it's a different ratio,

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but I hear a lot of modern

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Speaker 1: stuff inspirationally, hear things that inspire me, styles, whatever, and

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Speaker 1: it's just, you know, it's what we'd like to try

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Speaker 1: to stay fresh in that respect. So what are you

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Speaker 1: hearing that's turning now? All kinds of all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's gratifying. There are all these female

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Speaker 1: fronted bands that I like. You know, there's you know,

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Speaker 1: Surfboard and sun Slower Being and Churches and all these

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Speaker 1: girls are out there doing their thing. Um. I personally

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Speaker 1: have been a huge fan of modern Latin music for

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Speaker 1: over fifteen years. I've been a reggaeton and could be

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Speaker 1: a fan, and I knew that stuff was going to

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Speaker 1: cross over, and now it's ubiquitous. Those grooves are very

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Speaker 1: sexy to be the dembo beat. You know, dembo beat

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Speaker 1: is don't want to explain to the audience what it is.

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Speaker 1: It's just a boom boom. It's the reggaetone beat is

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Speaker 1: very specific form. It's almost like a twelve bar blues

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Speaker 1: in its specificity. And I just as soon as I

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Speaker 1: started hearing that stuff years ago, I was really turned on.

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Speaker 1: It really took a long time to cross over, and then,

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Speaker 1: you know, and then we had finally we have things

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Speaker 1: like lean On and some of these great tracks that

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Speaker 1: are dipping into that groove a little bit. Okay, when

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Speaker 1: we were growing up, music was driving the culture and

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Speaker 1: if you were interested in new music, you could just

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Speaker 1: turn on the FM radio station. Certainly am before that.

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Speaker 1: How do you discover all this stuff? Or you make

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Speaker 1: it actively? Are you doing it me? I? I pick

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Speaker 1: up from the weirdest online sources, just you know, looking

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Speaker 1: at TikTok videos or people's Instagram stories, and I'll hear

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Speaker 1: two bars is something that really gets to me, and

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Speaker 1: then I will shazam it and find out what it is.

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Speaker 1: So for an old fucker, I am very adept and

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Speaker 1: all this stuff. I've been doing computers for a very

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Speaker 1: long time. I started in the eighties, so I have

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Speaker 1: good skills with the software and hardware. Well, let's buy

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Speaker 1: for kat here and leave the skills aside for a second.

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Speaker 1: You talk about TikTok irrelevant of knowing how to work

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Speaker 1: the machine or the phone. Do you spend a lot

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Speaker 1: of time on TikTok, Instagram, etcetera. Instagram, on Instagram and Twitter? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's my main Well, I certainly see on Twitter all

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Speaker 1: the time, and you have a sense of humor, and

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Speaker 1: you about your photographs, But what is the inspiration You're

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Speaker 1: expressing yourself on Twitter? But in TikTok and Instagram? Do

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Speaker 1: you want to take the pulse of the nation or

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Speaker 1: you just really interested Instagram. I just like the graphic

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Speaker 1: aspect of it, and it was a great place to

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Speaker 1: start doing the photographs. And I'm not like a huge

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Speaker 1: influence or any of that kind of nonsense, but I

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Speaker 1: like TikTok how it works with all these kids, you know,

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Speaker 1: sharing audios and often sharing original audios. And my daughters

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Speaker 1: get into it and they're always coming up to me

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Speaker 1: and showing me some crazy little bit and that's fun.

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Speaker 1: And I foresee I was just telling the guys in

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Speaker 1: the rehearsal yesterday, I'm for seeing nine second songs. Now

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Speaker 1: that's probably the new frontier. I don't know that we'll

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Speaker 1: be doing any but it's probably coming, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I think I guess you gotta blame blame fucking mine

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Speaker 1: for all this short attention has been right right right?

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Speaker 1: Have you actively tried to get any of Blondie's music

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Speaker 1: past or present used on TikTok? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, heart

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Speaker 1: a glasses all over the place for that was trending

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Speaker 1: several times with whatever, you know, kind of visuals that

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Speaker 1: was evoking in little kids. But it's out there. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So you participate on Twitter? Do you follow a lot

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Speaker 1: of people on Twitter too? And do you spend time

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Speaker 1: reading Twitter? Yeah? Yeah, sure? What kind of people you follow?

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Speaker 1: What are you looking for? A lot of left wing

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Speaker 1: political people, but I pay attention to what the right

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Speaker 1: wing maniacs are on about also, and you know a

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Speaker 1: lot of the artists and film people, directors, writers, etcetera. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a long list. I have really great people following

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Speaker 1: me to them, you know, I'm not gonna flex about

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Speaker 1: But I have followers that I'm proud of. So what

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Speaker 1: motivates you to tweet? It's kind of this high of mind.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not it's not a real hie of mine,

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Speaker 1: but it's I call it the false hive of mind.

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Speaker 1: But I like the fact that whatever you're thinking now,

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Speaker 1: somebody else's gonna be writing the same goddamn thing somewhere.

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Speaker 1: If there's almost no individual commentary, and you know the

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Speaker 1: fact that it's so all over the place too. But

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I thought one in the morning

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Speaker 1: following the Ukrainian situation, and the immediacy of it is

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Speaker 1: really fucking you know, intense. Also, uh, you know, you

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Speaker 1: have people they're commenting on what's going on, and that's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's every duty. It's not. It's changed a

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Speaker 1: lot of things in the culture, the immediacy of the internet. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you follow a lot of left wing when you

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Speaker 1: check in with the right, what's your hope for democracy

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Speaker 1: or autocracy in the world today? Yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: It's a really it's a rough time and it's a

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Speaker 1: rough call. And I didn't you know, you and I

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Speaker 1: have been through a lot of all that stuff back

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Speaker 1: then uh, you know, I was right at the when

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Speaker 1: the fugs tried to levitate the Pentagon without Alan Ginsberg.

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Speaker 1: I was like right there sitting by the stage and

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Speaker 1: got tear gased and all this stuff. So I don't know,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't it's it's I've never seen it so fifty

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Speaker 1: fifty before with such a balance of maybe it's all

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Speaker 1: going to go to ship or maybe it's gonna be okay.

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Speaker 1: It's usually there's usually a little bit more of a

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Speaker 1: pendulum swing to one side or the other generally that

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Speaker 1: things will be okay. You know, we all lived through

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Speaker 1: Martin Luther King a lot of positivity, you know, so

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Speaker 1: to see the stuff that's going on now is it's frustrating.

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Speaker 1: But I am continually amused. My general outlook on life

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Speaker 1: is amusement, and there's a lot of it's funny what

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Speaker 1: goes on to in the world. You know, you have children,

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Speaker 1: so some of it's not that funny. I don't have

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Speaker 1: children all die, you know. Yeah, I know. I talked

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Speaker 1: to them about that stuff about you know, potential for

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Speaker 1: bleak future. I don't know how much they get of that,

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Speaker 1: but they're they're aware of current events certainly, like I'm

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Speaker 1: really you know, I'm really amused now that all these

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Speaker 1: right wing guys who are anti Marxists and calling you know,

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Speaker 1: Alc a Marxist, letting this whatever, you know, socialist monster

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Speaker 1: are now sort of supporting this Russian invasion, which is

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Speaker 1: it's it's crazy, but it's also very funny on a

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Speaker 1: certain level. I agree, But I was thinking about it

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Speaker 1: just before we started. Is it literally black and white?

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Speaker 1: Since Biden is taking one side, they have to take

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Speaker 1: the other. What do you think philosophically that's the side

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Speaker 1: They're wrong? No, no, no, for sure, It's just all

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Speaker 1: partisan politics. It has nothing to do with the fucking

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Speaker 1: I mean, do you think. I don't think Bill O'Reilly

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Speaker 1: believes any fucking thing he ever said. I think he's

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Speaker 1: just doing it for the bucks. I think maybe some

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Speaker 1: of the other ones, you know, believe it. Maybe Carlson

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Speaker 1: is genuinely that. But there's just as you know, I

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Speaker 1: briefly met Ann Coulter, I think a lot of these

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Speaker 1: guys are just doing it for effect and for uh

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Speaker 1: the check. Okay, Bill Maher goes on that he's friends

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Speaker 1: within Coulter. You know, with Tucker Carlson, I'd just like

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Speaker 1: to get him alone, and Lauren would say, off the record,

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Speaker 1: you really believe this ship. So you're talking to Ann Coulter,

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Speaker 1: did you think she was just throwing, you know, bombs

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Speaker 1: to have a career. I saw her in a very

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Speaker 1: show busy situation that was and it was very obvious

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Speaker 1: that she was part of the show bizmail you. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean I could say that, Well, I guess for me.

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Speaker 1: You know, I remember the sixties and seventies. I remember

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Speaker 1: going to college. You could literally point out the Republicans

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Speaker 1: on campus. You literally knew who they were, and they

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Speaker 1: were a handful. And I hear from all day long

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Speaker 1: the fact that a very significant part of the youth

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Speaker 1: are Republicans and supporting the Fox News agenda. It's just

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Speaker 1: mind blowing to me. Well, because that's what they're exposed to, though,

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Speaker 1: It's just it's just indoctrination and not being supposed to

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Speaker 1: another side. You know, I was lucky. I was when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid. I was you know, my parents

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Speaker 1: were red as the FBI famously came to my house

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Speaker 1: when I was maybe and talked to my old man

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Speaker 1: C and so forth. M I was. I had both sides.

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Speaker 1: The FBI came to your house. You remember that actually happening. No,

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Speaker 1: I don't remember, I remember my father being really creeped

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Speaker 1: out though, and telling me, you know, he gave them

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Speaker 1: the name of some guy who was dead and they

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Speaker 1: were happy that he was forthcoming and left. Okay, So

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Speaker 1: you know, they're those famous stories of the Eagles raising

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Speaker 1: money for Jerry Brown for president and Irving as Jerry

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Speaker 1: wanted to come on stage, and Irving said, no, okay,

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Speaker 1: the acts were bigger than the politicians. A lot of

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Speaker 1: years since then. So where is the place, if any,

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Speaker 1: for music in today's topsy turvy political world? Um, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I don't you know. There's just so much of it.

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Speaker 1: What have you know, ten thousand songs an hour, go

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Speaker 1: on to the sixty a day they say on Spotify,

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Speaker 1: whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Yeah, so, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's it's difficult plus everybody, plus with the with the

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Speaker 1: society being so split down the middle and pulling into directions,

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Speaker 1: people are scared to alienate their fan bases. I think

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Speaker 1: with heavy political statements, um, you know, it's just the

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Speaker 1: obvious stuff I'd like to see. And then also making

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Speaker 1: a political statement, you know, be it on Twitter or

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Speaker 1: whatever by an artist just immediately gets shut down by

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Speaker 1: the opposing group. It doesn't matter, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you come out and you say something that's meaningful to

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Speaker 1: your fan base or your political affiliation, but the other

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Speaker 1: guys are just gonna say, yeah, that's that guy, you know,

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Speaker 1: or whatever. My guy is better. So it's kind of

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Speaker 1: it almost, it's just blowing into the wind. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how to make a meaningful impact on the culture

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Speaker 1: politically really, except in little increments, you know. That's why

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Speaker 1: I go on Twitter and say stuff. But again, I

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Speaker 1: most of my stuff is is in a humorous vein.

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Speaker 1: Are you worried at all about going on record about

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Speaker 1: anything and alienating your audience? No, not really. I don't

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Speaker 1: think so, because I I you know, I think I mean,

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Speaker 1: Blondie fans are not going to be surprised how we

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Speaker 1: stand on I'll be q T rights, you know, or etcetera,

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Speaker 1: um or international politics. I don't think it's gonna nobody's

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Speaker 1: gonna be surprised by how well what we think. What

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Speaker 1: did you do for the two years of the pandemic?

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Speaker 1: I wrote a memoir. I wrote a lot of a

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Speaker 1: memoir and which I'm pitching now this that was nice.

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Speaker 1: It didn't do a hell of a lot of music.

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Speaker 1: I only did a little bit, but the writing was

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Speaker 1: of full on project that's a year or more. But um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm just finishing that up now and where

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Speaker 1: we are pitching it? And did you write it yourself

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Speaker 1: or do you have a ghost writer co writer? Now?

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Speaker 1: I write it myself, and when we got a publisher,

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Speaker 1: I'll start dealing with an editor. So usually when you

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Speaker 1: start to write, you remember stuff that you didn't think

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Speaker 1: of until you start to write. So were there any

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Speaker 1: interesting things that came to you as you're writing that

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Speaker 1: you forgot? Maybe? I, you know, I had to research

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Speaker 1: a lot of it. I was referring to other Blondie

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Speaker 1: books that had the bones and the chronology people who

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Speaker 1: did that work for me, which was good. And I

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Speaker 1: kept having to refer to the Blondie gig list, which

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Speaker 1: is online list of all the shows we've done. Stuff

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Speaker 1: like that was very helpful. I don't know how much

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Speaker 1: stuff I didn't remember that, but I, you know, I

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Speaker 1: talked to people and got some anecdotes and things that

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Speaker 1: were unique. It is it more of a straightforward tale

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Speaker 1: or does it have the sense of humor you employ

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Speaker 1: on Twitter. Yeah, yeah, no, I've tried to make it

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Speaker 1: white hearted. But it didn't have to, you know, I did.

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Speaker 1: I didn't realize how much you would have to delve

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Speaker 1: into addiction, um specifically that became it became a theme

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Speaker 1: in there, because you know, we got we all got

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Speaker 1: really fucked up for a certain period. There were a

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Speaker 1: lot of ups and downs. So how did you become addicted?

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Speaker 1: Just from doing drugs always and from not having much

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Speaker 1: information about it in that period in the seventies and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, emulating our heroes be it you know, Burrows

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Speaker 1: or lou Reed or whatever, and only seeing the cool

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Speaker 1: side of it somehow and not the downside. Okay, well

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Speaker 1: we all smoked marijuana hash. What was your progression from there? Well,

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Speaker 1: we just did a lot of coke, which was kind

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Speaker 1: of okay with the powers that be, and then start

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Speaker 1: to dabbling and smoked dragons, you know how you do

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Speaker 1: that on tinfron smoking heroin, and that led into just

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Speaker 1: regular heroin usage. Didn't last too long a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: But then you know, and that's what how I wind

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Speaker 1: up with that weird protect protracted illness because I, uh

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Speaker 1: screwed my immune system really badly from doing this stuff. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're smoking heroin whatever, you start injecting heroin in

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Speaker 1: your mind, don't you somewhere say, wait a second, what

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Speaker 1: am I doing? After a while, what am I doing?

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Speaker 1: Came from going through withdrawals and from walking on the

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Speaker 1: street and seeing everybody around me being normal and feeling

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Speaker 1: so alienated from the normalcy of the rest of the world. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you know, being a rock star is tough. You

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Speaker 1: play to, you know, twenty thousand adoring fans, you get

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Speaker 1: on bust with the same five actors that you've known

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Speaker 1: your whole life. Takes you hours to come down from

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Speaker 1: the hit. A lot of people start taking drugs to

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Speaker 1: cope with the road. What drove you to heroin? Well, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: I mean there was a premenous amount of pressure we

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to remember what the fucking period

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Speaker 1: was like in the seventies. It was still a wild

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Speaker 1: West out there. It wasn't like, there wasn't the smoothness

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Speaker 1: that we have today when we were doing shows. It

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Speaker 1: was it was rugged and we had a lot of

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Speaker 1: bad representation and etcetera, etcetera. Again, with a lot of

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Speaker 1: ups and downs. Financially, I wasn't trust trusted a lot

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Speaker 1: of people I shouldn't have trusted necessarily, and um should

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Speaker 1: have been bed. That was probably the I do blame

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Speaker 1: my endless weed smoking on my lack of attention to business. Possibly,

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Speaker 1: but I don't have any kind of ahead for mathematics.

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Speaker 1: But I didn't pay a lot of I didn't pay

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Speaker 1: a lot of attention to the business stuff. I just

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Speaker 1: left it with people. So the year plus that you

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Speaker 1: were a heroin addict. You know, people talk about scoring

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Speaker 1: by the same token. You have a certain amount of money,

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Speaker 1: your rock star. How did you get your dope which

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Speaker 1: you need, you know, multiple times a day. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: initially we had people delivering, but as things declined generally

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Speaker 1: and we ran out of money and sold our fancy

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Speaker 1: living quarters. Um, you know, I was crawling around. And

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Speaker 1: then I went you know, after after even after that,

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Speaker 1: even after I got off being a junkie and went

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Speaker 1: on to I was on a method on program for

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Speaker 1: many years, and I then I became a full on

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Speaker 1: cocaine addict once again, but much more so than I

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Speaker 1: had been in the early days. So that was another

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Speaker 1: thing I have to fight off. Okay, So how did

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Speaker 1: you stop taking the methodon and you said in the

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Speaker 1: past tense were you still taking it? No? No, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I finally just I just tampered it off on my own,

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Speaker 1: very gradually over a long period. It's kind of a

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Speaker 1: city of stuff. But the Methodon is also a great

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Speaker 1: cushion for for cocaine youth and many people I knew

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Speaker 1: on the method and program. We're all using coke all

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Speaker 1: the time because I had a doctor, had a really

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Speaker 1: great doctor method On doctor who swore that Methodon was

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Speaker 1: an antipsychotic, and that she was aware of lifelong schizophrenics

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Speaker 1: who were cured cured by Methodon. But that, of course

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Speaker 1: it can't. You know, it's too restricted to be experimented

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Speaker 1: with in these psychiatric situations, as you know are many

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Speaker 1: drugs in America. But so in that respect, the anti

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Speaker 1: psychotic properties are kind of obvious for people doing cocaine.

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Speaker 1: You'd get less paranoid and less insane, doo and cope

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Speaker 1: when you're on method on. Both the high was still

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Speaker 1: as good. Yeah, you know then, but then cocaine addiction.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's when we were starting out and we're

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Speaker 1: in the midst of the cocaine of the late seventies

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Speaker 1: and early eighties, Nobody thought it was addictive, but you know,

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Speaker 1: of course it is. And you feel horrible if you're

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Speaker 1: using daily and then you stop your crashing and feeling

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Speaker 1: slugged out and unhappy. So it's that. But yeah, with

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Speaker 1: method on, it's uh, it's more a lot of aspects

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Speaker 1: of it are tolerable. So how long did you do cocaine?

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Speaker 1: What period was this and how did you get off

356
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Speaker 1: the cocaine this time? After we stopped doing the blondie situation,

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Speaker 1: which really just kind of fizzled out, then I was

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Speaker 1: doing coke for I don't know, you know, four or

359
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Speaker 1: five years, probably maybe even longer. And then we started

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Speaker 1: putting the Banta back together. Then I met my great

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Speaker 1: wife and she was instrumental in me so bring up

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Speaker 1: and that was it, and we were on tour somewhere

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Speaker 1: and I this is just there was the point where

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Speaker 1: I stopped doing the method on and I had gotten

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Speaker 1: it down to five milligrams a day, and then I

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Speaker 1: just stopped. And I felt a little weird for about

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Speaker 1: a week and then I was okay. And now now

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Speaker 1: i've been I've been relatively sober for uh twenty years

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Speaker 1: or so, but you smoked marijuana on a regular basis.

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Speaker 1: Still no, don you're essentially clean. It gets me too, Stone,

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Speaker 1: I can't do it. I would like to. I feel

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Speaker 1: like I'm missing something now that's everywhere, but I just

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Speaker 1: don't do it. What do I know? Every drug I've

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Speaker 1: ever taken has never lived up to the building everybody

375
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Speaker 1: says it's so great. Maybe so you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think you know. I think Pott interfaces well with

377
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: being a teenager, and in your twenties there's a different interface. Yeah,

378
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Speaker 1: we're gonna go down this path. I certainly think, you know,

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Speaker 1: but it makes me wonder. You know, if marijuana was

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Speaker 1: legal everywhere, would everybody still talk about it in the

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Speaker 1: same insider way. I mean, people talk about being drunk,

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Speaker 1: but you know, being drunk, you're active. Although there's different

383
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Speaker 1: strands of mariwater as they say canabis. Now you know

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Speaker 1: it's relatively pacifying and you retreat you I don't know.

385
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Speaker 1: So I you know, my kids, I've I tell them,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're gonna get stone, smoke weed and

387
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Speaker 1: don't get drunk, don't drink alcohol. So there's that. How

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Speaker 1: did you meet your wife, Um just through the New

389
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Speaker 1: York scene. She met her at a she was doing

390
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Speaker 1: some stage work with Penny Arcade. You know, Penny Arcade

391
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Speaker 1: is m great individual, very insightful person Um just so

392
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Speaker 1: in a in a performance situation. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: we were friends for a while. She's terrific. She says,

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Speaker 1: she's an actor a couple of films and more theater.

395
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Speaker 1: And you have kids. Did you want to have kids

396
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Speaker 1: or did she say this is something she wants to do.

397
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Speaker 1: So it just happened. But I kind of always had

398
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Speaker 1: it in the back of my head. I was close

399
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Speaker 1: to my father and mother. I was really close to

400
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: my old man and I you know, I had dreams

401
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 1: of taking care of small living creatures. Uh. For it

402
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: was kind of a recurrent theme in my dreams. And

403
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 1: it's just always there. How old your kids to sixteen

404
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,679
Speaker 1: and eighteen? And what have you learned having kids? Forget

405
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:58,119
Speaker 1: about just you know, just all this stuff that one learns.

406
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: It's a lot of stuff, just how to negotiated to Uh.

407
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Speaker 1: You know, I'm pretty lenient with them. My wife is

408
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 1: more of the discipline area. But they listen to me.

409
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:15,360
Speaker 1: It's good. But you know, there's a lot of ups

410
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: and downs with that too. So to what degree are

411
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: you concerned about the future of your two girls. Yeah, considerably,

412
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Speaker 1: you know, because they're still seeking for what they're gonna

413
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Speaker 1: do in life. There's that, Then there's the climate. I mean,

414
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Speaker 1: we're you know, okay, financially, I'm lucky in that respect,

415
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: but things are weird. It's a weird time. Well, I

416
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: guess you were an artist. If your two daughters said

417
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Speaker 1: they want to be artists, that's fine with you. Or

418
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Speaker 1: you want them to like to go to college and

419
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Speaker 1: get all that they can do whatever the hell they want,

420
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Speaker 1: you know, that's that's that's it. Yeah, my younger daughter

421
00:26:55,840 --> 00:27:00,919
Speaker 1: has overnights become a real fashionista and this fashion but

422
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: she's always been a graphic artist, and the older one

423
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 1: had it's done a bunch of filmmaking and know this

424
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,720
Speaker 1: how to work final cut really well and that kind

425
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,360
Speaker 1: of stuff. Okay, you talked about the ups and downs

426
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 1: of the money, you know, having to sell your apartment,

427
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,719
Speaker 1: et cetera. So how's the money today We're doing okay?

428
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: You know, we did a deal with merk with Hypnosis,

429
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: so we sold some aspects and got a you know,

430
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: immediate payback for that, not like Bob Dylan money necessarily,

431
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: but it's okay. Um, you know, I'm not complaining. I'm lucky.

432
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 1: I mean a fucking privileged situation here, which is weird.

433
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: I mean I never came from any money. My parents

434
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 1: were just lower middle class. But all this stuff, after

435
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,280
Speaker 1: all this time, I mean, it's quite a while to

436
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:57,439
Speaker 1: pay off financially for us. So I gotta say I

437
00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: go into a little more det tale in my book.

438
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 1: But you know, we got screwed over in your very

439
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: standard show biz way. So when did you start finally

440
00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: seeing the money? Least ten fifteen years? Less ten years maybe? Wow?

441
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: So why did you sell the murk? What was that

442
00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: decision about? We were you know, prompted, Uh, he got it,

443
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: gave us a really great multiple, et cetera. That kind

444
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: of not says But I don't know, I probably should

445
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: have held that for more money at this point. It

446
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: was very early on in this um uh moments of

447
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: people selling, you know, but we we held on to

448
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: aspects of the of the catalog of the songs. So

449
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,240
Speaker 1: you know, we're still getting licensing fees and that kind

450
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 1: of stuff. And what do you do with the money.

451
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: Nothing just sitting there. Um. And we have a nice

452
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 1: apartment in Manhattan now, and we've got a house up

453
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,200
Speaker 1: in Woodstock. We've always Actually the house of Woodstock was

454
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: financed by Andy Warhol skull paintings that I sold under

455
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,320
Speaker 1: market also, But that's what happens, you know. Okay, how

456
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 1: did you end up with it? And how did you

457
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 1: decide to sell it? Wish the paintings. The painting I

458
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 1: had like four Warhole skulls, you know, I just bought

459
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 1: him from Andy. Um, probably really cheap. I could have

460
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: brought all that fucking stuff, you know, I could have

461
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: brought all the Maryland's and Elvis's, but I just didn't

462
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: have the foresight. I took it for granted because I

463
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: was around it all the time. And uh I so

464
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 1: I bought four from Andy. I sold two really cheap.

465
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:43,200
Speaker 1: Early on when I was broke. I mean I was.

466
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: I was broke really a lot. Because I'm not gonna

467
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: go into all the details. It's in the book. You'll

468
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: read all the details in the book. But I was

469
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 1: didn't you know, I was in financial distress for quite

470
00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 1: a while. And then in later years I sold the

471
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 1: in two of the skull paintings, and that helped finance

472
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,520
Speaker 1: the house up in Woodstock. But I what I do

473
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: have still is the actual skull that Andy painted. I

474
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: have the actual physical human skull in my collection of

475
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: weird stuff. So did you sell those other two primarily

476
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 1: to buy the house? Yeah? Just yes, But yeah, because

477
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:25,520
Speaker 1: who was that. We were very close to nine eleven

478
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: when that happened, and you know, I probably should have

479
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 1: looked around the city for a cheap town house at

480
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 1: that point, but because there everybody was, you know, running

481
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: for it. But we did want to. We had made

482
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:45,760
Speaker 1: a bunch of trips up to Woodstock, and we knew

483
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:49,240
Speaker 1: people from the film community up there, and I have

484
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: have old friends up there, you know a lot of

485
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 1: the community. Um, So we just kind of wanted to

486
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: get the country life thing out of our system. So

487
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: we did that. We were up there for like ten years,

488
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: pretty much straight straight through. Okay, so you say you

489
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: have the original skull? Are you a collector? I'm not

490
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 1: talking about collector like going to art basil. I'm talking

491
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: about do you have all this stuff? Do you have

492
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: all the memorabilia from Blondie? I have a lot of stuff. Yes,

493
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: I have a lot of stuff. I have a really

494
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: great knife collection. I collect knives, military, American custom knives,

495
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 1: and very knowledgeable in the knife world. And I know

496
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: a lot of the old knife makers. It's a very

497
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: niche fucking thing. I write about it in the book.

498
00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: Um it's what it is. How did you get into knives? Well,

499
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: my old man took me to army and Navy stories

500
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: when as a kid, and I think that's where it

501
00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: started out. He put me a couple of knives early on. Um,

502
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: it just it just went from there. And then in

503
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: the early in the seventies, not the early seventies, but

504
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: in the you know, mid late seventies when we were

505
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: doing the band thing, I started seeing the American custom knife,

506
00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: which was in its infancy at that point. But I

507
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: just found it fascinating and all these things connected up,

508
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 1: and I started going to the knife shows in New

509
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: York all the time, and I met all the guys,

510
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: all these great makers. Um, it's it's still going on.

511
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,840
Speaker 1: It's a it's a it's a pretty big scene. Still.

512
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: How many knowledge do you think you have? And where

513
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: are they? Thousands there? You know, put away, Some of

514
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 1: them are put away, some out on display, but not

515
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot, A lot of them are just in storage. Okay,

516
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: So where do you grow up Brooklyn and your parents

517
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,320
Speaker 1: their parents were from the Old Country or how long

518
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 1: was your family here. My old man came from Russia

519
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,960
Speaker 1: when he was probably, um, you know, five six years old.

520
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: My mom was born here. I think her. Maybe my grandfather,

521
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: my maternal grandfather, may have been born out of the country,

522
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: but I think my grandmother was born here. I you know,

523
00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: I traced a bunch of this lineage recently. I just

524
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: very recently had a guy from Germany and cousin get

525
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 1: in touch with me through one of the DNA things

526
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 1: that I had done, and he had a bunch of

527
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: facts that I didn't have any had a copy of

528
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: my old man's birth certificate, which um, I don't know

529
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: when it was made, and interesting stuff. My old my

530
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: father had the same birthday as my older daughter, which

531
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: we were all taken back by. Right. So it's unusual

532
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: for a Jewish boy to be named Chris. I had

533
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:36,400
Speaker 1: kids coming up to me when I was a kid

534
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: and saying, it's a weird name for a jew boy

535
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: ivan back then, you know, but I think it may

536
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 1: have my parents may have been trying to bypass some

537
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,880
Speaker 1: aspects of anti Semitism that they may have been confronted with.

538
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: And on your birth certificate is it Christopher or Christopher?

539
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,520
Speaker 1: And you grow up and once again, what are your

540
00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: parents do all day? My father was a salesman and

541
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: a frustrated writer. Um. He had been a labor organizer briefly.

542
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: I think that's part of the FBI story. You know,

543
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,799
Speaker 1: I know those guys they told me. My mom told

544
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: me that they met in the party in Syracuse, New York.

545
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,960
Speaker 1: So you know, uh, it's kind of all. I wish

546
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: I had questioned them more about it, but I didn't.

547
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,200
Speaker 1: You know, again, I took it all for granted when

548
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 1: I was a kid. But my mother was a really

549
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,960
Speaker 1: great painter, and I just don't have a lot of

550
00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: her stuff left. I have a handful of her work.

551
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: Most of it got, you know, as we got booted

552
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:44,560
Speaker 1: out of different environments. That got the discarded all by

553
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: the wayside. But during her heyday, was this just a

554
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: passion or did she actually sell someone her work? No,

555
00:34:50,120 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: I don't think she ever sold. She was a window

556
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: designer in the forties. She told me she knew decooning

557
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,120
Speaker 1: a little in downtown. Um, She used to do some

558
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 1: of the Lord and Taylors and some of those big

559
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 1: windows right around the around the same period that Dolly

560
00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: was doing windows in Manhattan too, So I mean she

561
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,240
Speaker 1: was successful with that. And she was a really great

562
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: abstract impressionist painter, but you know, picasso Esque in some places,

563
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: but also experimental and others. But I have a handful

564
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: of her things. Do you think that her identity and

565
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: her you know, the things around, is that what Drew

566
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: drove you to be an artist? Yeah? I mean, you know,

567
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: she was my dad. My dad died when I was fifteen,

568
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:47,319
Speaker 1: so that was early on the dramatic and um, she

569
00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:51,400
Speaker 1: was very permissive and she let all my friends gather

570
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: at my house and hang around and jam and smoke

571
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 1: weed and it was, you know, nice period. But I

572
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: was called up in the sixties and moved gravitated towards

573
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: the music culture. You said you were very close to

574
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 1: your father. What did that look like. It must have

575
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: been very painful when he passed. Yeah, yeah, no, it

576
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:16,319
Speaker 1: took me a while too. I like, I can you know,

577
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: I just kind of complete breakdown when I was nineteen.

578
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: That was probably spurred on as it was part of that,

579
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, processing his death, which I probably hadn't reacted to,

580
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: and taking acid in all the general you know, melt

581
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: down to the sixties. What did the breakdown look like?

582
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: I want? I wanted up in a nuthouse for you know,

583
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,719
Speaker 1: in a Beth Israel for three months. Did but I

584
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: got a lot of benefits out of it, so I was, Okay,

585
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: we've got welfare. I got, uh, the remainder might stay

586
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: in art school, paid for by the Division of Vocational Rehabilitation,

587
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: so you know, it wasn't total loss. So what kind

588
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:02,279
Speaker 1: of kids were you in school? Good student, student, popular, unpopular? No,

589
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: I was just kind of fringe nerd kid. I don't

590
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: think I was. I certainly wasn't a good student. Um.

591
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: I was indifferent to school. I didn't like school at all.

592
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 1: I fight and then getting this is my whole biography here.

593
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,440
Speaker 1: Um I got thrown out of Midwood High School for

594
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,520
Speaker 1: having long hair in nineteen The fucking dean rounded up

595
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: me and my two or three friends and he said,

596
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna be a crossing the street and

597
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: your hair is gonna blow in front of your eyes

598
00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: and you get hit by a car and you have

599
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:39,960
Speaker 1: to get a hair cut before you come back. And

600
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: I was really happy and felt very liberated to leave.

601
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: And I, um, they did, somebody from the school, but

602
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,440
Speaker 1: right at that moment, all those civil rights cases were

603
00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: coming up about long hair. So somebody actually called me

604
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: from the school and said, okay, you can come back

605
00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 1: and you won't have to take jim and everything's okay.

606
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: But meanwhile, my mother found a very cheap private school

607
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: uptown in Manhattan. So I wound up finishing high school there,

608
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:11,759
Speaker 1: which was great. And you graduate from high school and

609
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: then one then I went to San Francisco, played music

610
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: with my friends, started a little later dabbling in photography,

611
00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: all this stuff, A lot of a lot of stuff.

612
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: You mentioned art school. How does that fit in. I

613
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: was in the School of Visual Arts. Well, that was

614
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:33,200
Speaker 1: that that was financed by the city as a results

615
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:38,040
Speaker 1: of my being insane, which was great, and um my

616
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 1: last year, I guess there I last year. At two years,

617
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: you know, I started seeing flyers in the lobby for

618
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: this thing called the New York Dolls, which I initially

619
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: thought was a drag act. But then when I finally

620
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: saw something in the Village Voice about these guys are

621
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 1: really great and the singers like Mick Jagger. I went

622
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: to see them. I fell in with this other band

623
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 1: called the Magic Tramps, who got a shout out in

624
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,919
Speaker 1: that Miserable Vinyl TV show. And oddly enough, because they're

625
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: very unknown and never really recorded, Eric Emerson was the

626
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,400
Speaker 1: lead singer. He was a Warhol superstar. I fell in

627
00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,239
Speaker 1: with those guys. I played with them, was part of

628
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: their entourage, and did a roadies situation with them, on

629
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,480
Speaker 1: and on, and then that led into meeting Debbie and

630
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: then then well that happened. Okay, a little bit slower.

631
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:33,360
Speaker 1: You graduate from high school, you know, your father has passed.

632
00:39:33,440 --> 00:39:35,720
Speaker 1: What are you doing for money? My mom had whatever

633
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:40,919
Speaker 1: insurance or security stuff. Uh, but you know, I don't

634
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: know how the hell we got by. She managed to

635
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,799
Speaker 1: pull together enough income. We moved out of our ancestral

636
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 1: home and moved to an apartment in Brooklyn that was smaller.

637
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:55,560
Speaker 1: That's when we lost a lot of her paintings. Uh,

638
00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:59,840
Speaker 1: but you know, we managed to get by and still

639
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 1: enough money to financed a couple of trips to California

640
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: for me. Okay, so the first trip that was when

641
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,840
Speaker 1: and what was going on there? Went to streets somewhere loved. Okay,

642
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,560
Speaker 1: so you saw something love and you said I gotta go. Yeah, yeah,

643
00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 1: for sure. I heard the song you know flowers in

644
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 1: your Hair like, yeah, I remember. So did you hitchhike there? No? No,

645
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:27,480
Speaker 1: I uh. The first time I drove out with buddies

646
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: with older guys from my Brooklyn neighborhood, which was a

647
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: nice road trip with some anecdotes and around that. Um.

648
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 1: Then I got to l A the weekend of Monterey Pop. Well,

649
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 1: I was so horny to go to San Francisco. I

650
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 1: didn't fucking go, and I always regretted that going to

651
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: Battery Pop. But I did go right up. I went

652
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: up to h I went to Saronisco at a reasonably

653
00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,360
Speaker 1: good time there for a bunch of weeks, and I

654
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:04,719
Speaker 1: went back to Brooklyn. I think, Um, I don't know

655
00:41:04,719 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: if I started up art school in that year in between,

656
00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,439
Speaker 1: but I went to I probably I may have been

657
00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,320
Speaker 1: my first year at art school in that year in between.

658
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: I went back to San Francisco and summer nine, they

659
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: cracked up completely from taking acid too much, all this

660
00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Heard weird things in the White album,

661
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: the same as a lot of other people. All of

662
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:38,879
Speaker 1: you know, it was I was microcosmo of the macrocosm,

663
00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: as they say, what were you doing in San Francisco?

664
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: And where were you sleeping? With friends who had were

665
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: had inhabited a big house there, people I knew and

666
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 1: people I was. I mean, I got off the I

667
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: got off the bus the first time I was there

668
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: in sixty seven, got off the bus, walked across the

669
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,680
Speaker 1: street into a party. People were dancing to Lucy and

670
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: the Sky with Diamonds true story. Walked into the kitchen.

671
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 1: I had a joint. I started smoking with some kid.

672
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: He said, who are you? I said to me, you know,

673
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. I wound up. He said, oh, you

674
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: can stay at my house, you know, any place to stay.

675
00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:18,160
Speaker 1: It was like that, very easy. Okay, well, you know

676
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,360
Speaker 1: the summer of love and then everybody goes in sixty

677
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: eight and the media portrays it is negative. What was

678
00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 1: your experience like once in a lifetime great or you know,

679
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 1: I just happened to be there. So so it got

680
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,840
Speaker 1: dark later on, you know, I mean I started seeing

681
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:37,920
Speaker 1: elements of darkness and predatory people surrounding all this stuff,

682
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: even even probably in sixty seven. But yeah, there was

683
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,840
Speaker 1: it was by by by sixty eight, it was on

684
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 1: the way, you know, it was the flood gates had opened.

685
00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 1: So obviously music is everything in that era. When did

686
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 1: you start playing an instrument when that I had been

687
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: playing guitar for when I was twelves before the Beatles.

688
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,880
Speaker 1: What motivated to folk music? Yes, and just being attracted

689
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,160
Speaker 1: to it. The electric guitar, The essence of the electric

690
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,319
Speaker 1: guitar was fascinating to me, and I, you know, I

691
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 1: would see occasionally one in Brooklyn and looking a basement

692
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: window and there will be some guy with playing a

693
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: fancy electric guitar, and that was very interesting to me.

694
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 1: And then you know, I was aware of some of

695
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 1: those twiny songs that were on the radio and that

696
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:42,359
Speaker 1: kind of stuff. Um uh. I always West Side Story

697
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: was such a huge influence on me and everybody, and

698
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:50,480
Speaker 1: I feel like it pumped up a lot of people

699
00:43:50,560 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: for the British invasion later on. People don't get what

700
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 1: a big deal West Side Story was for the kids

701
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: back then. Well, so all you know the original soundtrack,

702
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:05,839
Speaker 1: original Broadway soundtrack. Did you see the new West Side Story? No, I,

703
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:08,880
Speaker 1: you know, I was really kind of hyped for it.

704
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 1: But then it sort of gradually fizzled out, and now

705
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 1: I'm not I don't know if I give you ship

706
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: at this point. Yeah, I don't really feel that way.

707
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:18,319
Speaker 1: And I'm not a huge Spielberg fan anyway. So did

708
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: you play in bands in high school? Were you any

709
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: good playing with bands and playing My friends, we've famously

710
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 1: opened up for the Velvet Underground in the nineteen sixty

711
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: seven at a place called the Gymnasium. I had a buddy.

712
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,880
Speaker 1: I had a buddy, this guy, Joey Freeman, who I

713
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: grew up with. I knew him for me. He was

714
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,439
Speaker 1: he was maybe a year younger than me, but I've

715
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,680
Speaker 1: known him for you know, fifty odd years. He worked

716
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 1: for Andy, for the factory. And he showed up my house.

717
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: I mean, we all knew he was associated with Andy,

718
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:55,160
Speaker 1: and he showed up my house one day in Brooklyn

719
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 1: and he said, listen, there was an opening act for

720
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: the Velvets, and we all know who they were, of course,

721
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: and they open the act, didn't show up, would you

722
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: guys do it? So we brought our guitars on the

723
00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 1: subway and went up uptown. I think it's in the

724
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: East seventies. This old Polish Hall, and we opened up

725
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 1: for the Velvets and Marine Tucker let us turn her

726
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: bass drum right side up, you know, because she played

727
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: it like a like a timpany, you know. And we

728
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:26,239
Speaker 1: did a little set and it was hardly anybody there.

729
00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: After this set, you know, somebody came up and said, oh,

730
00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: Andy thinks you're really great, and that was nice. And

731
00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: Velvets were great. They were awesome and powerful. That was it,

732
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: you know, hanging with famous people as a thing unto itself,

733
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:48,399
Speaker 1: which most people never experience. When they experience, they either

734
00:45:48,480 --> 00:45:52,280
Speaker 1: become tongue tied or become fan boys or fan girls.

735
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 1: And that doesn't work. You know. You talk about, you know,

736
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:56,960
Speaker 1: I meeting Andy, you know, are you just kind of

737
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,000
Speaker 1: an artist? You just kind of go with the flow

738
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:01,640
Speaker 1: and it fits. I mean where you say, hey, this

739
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: he was already Andy Warhol when your battle. Well, no,

740
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean I had been seeing Andy since I was

741
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: a little kid on TV. I mean I saw him

742
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:13,359
Speaker 1: on David Suskind or whatever that was. So I mean

743
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: I was aware that always. And Andy was you know,

744
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 1: very high up there in the ether, but he was

745
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:25,320
Speaker 1: also close to the streets. So there was this He

746
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: managed to negotiate this position that he was in. Everybody

747
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 1: in New York who was in any kind of the

748
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,200
Speaker 1: arts had some connection to Andy one way or the others,

749
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,720
Speaker 1: and that started out. That whole thing started out earlier

750
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 1: for me, I think, I mean later on. Yeah, I

751
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: frequently star struck. Um. I met Peter Dinklage in a

752
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:52,160
Speaker 1: gas station and he was charming and really nice and

753
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: and being in my position is great. It's like being

754
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: a Mason or something because I can just go up

755
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: to anybody in show business and go high, it's me

756
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: from Blondie and they Okay, yeah, it's you. That's a

757
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: really great thing. Debbie and me met Liz Taylor when

758
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: she was on Broadway for the first time. Our buddy

759
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 1: Dennis Christopher was in The Little Foxes with her. That

760
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:19,720
Speaker 1: was memorable. Um, Milton Burrow gave me a big kiss.

761
00:47:21,080 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: We were at a George Burns. We met George Burns

762
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:30,839
Speaker 1: several times and we were at some uh toasting situation

763
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: for him, and Milton Burrow was the MC and we

764
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,319
Speaker 1: got dragged out on stage and he grabbed my head

765
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: and give me a big kiss on the lifts in

766
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 1: front of the whole audience, which is pretty nice. There's

767
00:47:41,040 --> 00:47:42,879
Speaker 1: not many people can say that. So if you talk

768
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:47,280
Speaker 1: about all the characters in the Factory, Joe Dallassandro, Dy whatever,

769
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: did you know all that? No, not a lot. No,

770
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,439
Speaker 1: because we were We didn't hook up early on with Andy.

771
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: He was in the third Factory by the time. We

772
00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,120
Speaker 1: were seeing him frequently more in the eighties, right from

773
00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: around on. Um, I know Joe Moore from online and

774
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 1: talking to him online in this period. So how do

775
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 1: you meet Debby? I went, I went to a show

776
00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 1: that they were doing with her girl trio thing called

777
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,640
Speaker 1: the Stilettos, and I went to their first show at

778
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 1: a bar on twenty four Street, I think, and uh,

779
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 1: that was it. And I was very taken with her

780
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: because she was very magnetic and beautiful. And um, I

781
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: they had they only had rotating musicians in their band,

782
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 1: and I as soon as I would say well, I

783
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: signed up with the band and became the first permanent member.

784
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: You remember what year? That was? Seventy three. So seventy three,

785
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: the Dolls get their deal, They make their first record

786
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: for Mercury, gets a lot of hype. Doesn't happen the

787
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: Ramons albums the first one, Yeah, maybe I'm I can't

788
00:48:57,480 --> 00:49:00,799
Speaker 1: maybe say Clive or six? Yeah, maybe said five. So

789
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: what was the scene like? You know, you went to

790
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: see Debbie's bean Stiletto, But what other acts were going

791
00:49:06,520 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: in seventy three? By the late seventies, the whole different world.

792
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:11,920
Speaker 1: But what's the scene like in the early seventies teenage

793
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: lust here, teenage lust. There was three Girls and the sky.

794
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:22,320
Speaker 1: Harold Um. I knew Tommy Ramon from Mercer Arts Center,

795
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: from a band called Butch, And when we started playing

796
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:31,239
Speaker 1: a cb GEVs, he approached me and said, I heard

797
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 1: you found a place to play downtown. He meant cb

798
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: g VS, and I have this band called the Ramons,

799
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,080
Speaker 1: and we played with their owns at their first gig

800
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: at CBGVS, which I've only figured out recently because all

801
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,160
Speaker 1: these dates are out there in the world. But that happened, Um,

802
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 1: you know, and but early on, you know, Eric Emerson,

803
00:49:55,560 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 1: Magic Trams, teenage lust bands. I'm not forgetting. I'm not remembering. Rather,

804
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:07,799
Speaker 1: loth are in the hand people of silver apples, right,

805
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: silver apples. Those guys were around a little earlier. Um.

806
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: Suicide was around for a long time that you know

807
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,840
Speaker 1: all day I think even pre date the Dolts a

808
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: little bit. So what were you living on? Then? Welfare

809
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,440
Speaker 1: was very helpful. That was pretty much it. Occasional odd jobs,

810
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: but mostly welfare. Okay, so you go to see stiletto

811
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: you're struck by Debbie. How do you introduce yourself and

812
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: what do you say? Well? I knew one of the

813
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: other girls, One of the other girls in Stilettos was

814
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:44,920
Speaker 1: one of Eric Emerson's girlfriends, and they had a kid together,

815
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:49,279
Speaker 1: and it was all very incestuous actually, so you know,

816
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:51,600
Speaker 1: I I don't know how much I spoke to her

817
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: that first night, but soon after I joined up as

818
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:59,000
Speaker 1: their guitar player. Well you how to sell yourself, right?

819
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:01,279
Speaker 1: What was your pitch? Well, we were working together at

820
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,359
Speaker 1: that point and we just you see them. You know,

821
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: you're a peripheral character. How do you say, no, you

822
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:09,400
Speaker 1: need me in the band? I was probably more of

823
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: the two elder the other girl, Eric's girlfriend that because

824
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: she was kind of the leader, the default leader, because

825
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:23,280
Speaker 1: she had the loft that they were rehearsed again. Um,

826
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: but Debbie's claims to have been had some notice of

827
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: me and some attraction early on too, because I had

828
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: really long hair and I where I make up of

829
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 1: the whole fucking other image. I might have been more striking,

830
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:39,839
Speaker 1: I don't know. And how long after you met her

831
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: to turn into a romance? A few months? We were

832
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 1: friends here, a couple of months, maybe maybe a month,

833
00:51:45,400 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: maybe one month, two months somewhere in there. Now she's

834
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:51,520
Speaker 1: spent five years older than you. That that's unusual. Back,

835
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 1: did you notice that or you know you're in the

836
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: downtown SENI who cares, No, she looked like she was

837
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 1: a little kid when she was thirty. She looked like

838
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: she was nineteen. Yeah, believe me, I know. I just

839
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 1: want to know what was going through your head. Okay,

840
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,839
Speaker 1: So now you're part of the group which has got

841
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: free flowed. When do you start having a plan or

842
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:10,359
Speaker 1: is there never a plan? No? It was I mean,

843
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:14,000
Speaker 1: you know, the dolls going out in the world and

844
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: not succeeding, or at least going out in America and

845
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:21,080
Speaker 1: not succeeding, made everybody sort of step back, pull it back.

846
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:26,840
Speaker 1: So the whole New York music scene for several years

847
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: was just done for each other and the only people

848
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: in the audience were other band members and their entourages,

849
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: and there was you know, a peripheral group of friends.

850
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 1: But generally it was again pretty incestuous. But it was

851
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: there a plan. I don't know if there was a plan.

852
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,360
Speaker 1: We just worked. I mean the plan was to maybe

853
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,840
Speaker 1: get a record deal, but that was pretty nebulous. I

854
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: don't know if you know how anybody thought that was

855
00:52:57,040 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: really going to happen. And what were you using for material?

856
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,440
Speaker 1: Even wrote songs that did cover songs, all kinds of stuff,

857
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,080
Speaker 1: but everybody wrote songs. Had you been writing songs previously

858
00:53:06,239 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 1: or when did you start to blossom? Now? Most of

859
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 1: that was done because there was a need for it.

860
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: With the early songs we wrote with the Stilettos, I

861
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 1: think the only man the big song that we wrote

862
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 1: in the Stilettos period that carried carried over was in

863
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: the Flesh, that one that was a hit in Australia run.

864
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: So how did it more fit from the Stilettos to Blondie. Well,

865
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:31,600
Speaker 1: the girls, you know, it was hard to keep maintaining

866
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: a three girls situation where they were all taking turn

867
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 1: singing leads and stuff like that, and there was you know,

868
00:53:39,239 --> 00:53:42,840
Speaker 1: there was a certain amount of competition involved, and eventually

869
00:53:42,880 --> 00:53:47,279
Speaker 1: we just split off and the band followed Debbie into

870
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 1: the next incarnation. How did it become the name blondie?

871
00:53:51,800 --> 00:53:55,400
Speaker 1: Debbie died or air blonde one day and and we

872
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,520
Speaker 1: didn't really have a name for a while. And came

873
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:02,200
Speaker 1: home him and said, all these guys are yelling a

874
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:05,839
Speaker 1: blondie at me. That really was That was really it? Now,

875
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 1: how do you end up working at CBGB's. That was

876
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 1: pretty early? I remember, Um, that was with the Stilettos.

877
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: That was earlier. Um, it was just there, and I

878
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 1: remember distinctly. I was in the backroom in Maxis, Kansas City,

879
00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 1: which is where people played, and you know, we people

880
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:29,880
Speaker 1: played at mercer ars. I never I never the Spilettos

881
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,279
Speaker 1: never played at mercer Arts. But we did gigs with

882
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: the dolls and played the eighty two Club. You know

883
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:36,400
Speaker 1: what the two Club was? Two Club? I don't know.

884
00:54:36,719 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: The two Club was an old uh not really a

885
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:47,839
Speaker 1: drag bar. It was a mafia owned transvestide bar. Um.

886
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,560
Speaker 1: I guess, you know, I don't want to be politically incorrect,

887
00:54:52,640 --> 00:54:57,240
Speaker 1: but but I don't know if it really was dragged

888
00:54:57,360 --> 00:55:01,120
Speaker 1: as such, but it was female impersonator. So I don't

889
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 1: know if this is you know, I don't being too, kid,

890
00:55:04,120 --> 00:55:06,839
Speaker 1: We'll let you off the hook to offend anybody by

891
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,520
Speaker 1: this terminology. But but it was a great situation there

892
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:16,080
Speaker 1: were It was downstairs in a basement. It was this

893
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:20,400
Speaker 1: old mafia run club. There were photos in there. There

894
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,200
Speaker 1: was a photo of Abbott and Costello with a drag

895
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,560
Speaker 1: queen that I was I thought it was the greatest

896
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 1: fucking art effect that I had seen at that point.

897
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 1: So we played. We used to play there. There's very

898
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:34,080
Speaker 1: little information out in the world about the eighties two club.

899
00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: It was number eighty two I think Third Street, East

900
00:55:36,680 --> 00:55:42,360
Speaker 1: third Street. Uh, but Seabees. So we were in the

901
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,160
Speaker 1: back room at back to Kansas City and Elda, one

902
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:48,879
Speaker 1: of the girls from Selettos, showed up and she said,

903
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 1: I just was downtown in this bar and I saw

904
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: a bunch of guys playing in a band and they

905
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: were all dressed like old men, and she meant television,

906
00:55:56,360 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: and so we went down to see them, and you know,

907
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,640
Speaker 1: and then we just got in there and started playing.

908
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: We we played at cbt VS every weekend for seven

909
00:56:06,680 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: months in a row. At one point. Now, the sound

910
00:56:09,200 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: of Blondie was different from the other acts downtown. I

911
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 1: mean a lot of them were really punk. Television was

912
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: thinking to itself, was it notable or you're just another

913
00:56:19,920 --> 00:56:23,440
Speaker 1: band doing your thing. It was really diverse musically, I

914
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: mean the bands the out of all the big bands,

915
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: you know, us and the Ramans and talking heads and

916
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:34,480
Speaker 1: television and that was that's a real big spread of

917
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,440
Speaker 1: sound and styles. And how do you end up with

918
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 1: Private Stock? Um? Private Stock? I guess right, I guess

919
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:49,680
Speaker 1: we had gotten our manager at that point and we

920
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,160
Speaker 1: just wound up there. It was early on, you know,

921
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,840
Speaker 1: I don't know. We might have got picked up by

922
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:59,160
Speaker 1: Sire a little later, I don't know. But Private Stock

923
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 1: was a weird sort of vanity label for this guy,

924
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: Larry Utall, who used to be with Bell Records, I believe,

925
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 1: with Marty Thaou and uh Seymour. I think they were

926
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: those guys and open partners. Um. He didn't really have

927
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: a clue as to what to do with the allegedly

928
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: punk act. He you know, they had they had the

929
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:28,560
Speaker 1: Fifth of Beethoven, remember that, absolutely, that was one of

930
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:33,600
Speaker 1: their big hits. They had Ship and they had oh god,

931
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:37,040
Speaker 1: I can't remember now I'm blanket, but they had a

932
00:57:37,120 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 1: couple had Peter Lemon, Jello. You know, Peter Lemon Jello

933
00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 1: was absolutely MLR guy. You know, so, I mean that

934
00:57:45,440 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: was what was on Private Stuck and you know, so

935
00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:55,040
Speaker 1: we were there and then who got bought by chrystalis

936
00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 1: after the first album? They wait wait wait wait wait,

937
00:57:58,320 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: so slow down a little bit. Who is the manage

938
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 1: of them leaves? This guy? Peter Leeds? All right, now,

939
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,000
Speaker 1: Peter Leeds was not a good experience or baddocks. No,

940
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: it was terrible. But you know because he continued to

941
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: be a manager. So it was terrible because he just

942
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 1: didn't have good people skills. He had good ideas and

943
00:58:15,240 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: he but he was just you know, it was just belligerent.

944
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,800
Speaker 1: He would have been better as a CEO, cranky ce

945
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 1: CEO of something. I think. Okay, so you make these

946
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 1: two records for Private Stock. Private Stock is there in

947
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:32,600
Speaker 1: the middle of recording the second one when the negotiations

948
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:35,520
Speaker 1: commenced with crystalis how do you get hooked up with

949
00:58:35,640 --> 00:58:44,480
Speaker 1: Richard Godderay? He was just around he Um Craig Leon

950
00:58:46,040 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: was responsible for recording, doing live recordings and CBGBs. At

951
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: one point there was a cbg VS live album done,

952
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,640
Speaker 1: but by that time none of the big bands wanted

953
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 1: to be on this because everybody it was dealing with

954
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: their own contracts and record labels. So allegedly there are

955
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,920
Speaker 1: all these lost tapes somewhere of you know us in

956
00:59:10,040 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: television and whatever that we're done with the twenty four

957
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:18,360
Speaker 1: track truck. So Craig at some point during that was

958
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: approached by Debbie May. I think maybe that's the connection

959
00:59:21,600 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: with Goda. Craig was hooked up with Gadara. Uh, I

960
00:59:26,760 --> 00:59:29,000
Speaker 1: think that's it. So how did you feel about the

961
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:31,960
Speaker 1: capturing of your sound? Feel good about it? Bad about it?

962
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: It was good? It was great, you know, I mean,

963
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:38,440
Speaker 1: just got her ahead. A tremendously different approach than Mike Chapman.

964
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:41,600
Speaker 1: You know, he was you know, he was just very

965
00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 1: old school. We go in and do the do for

966
00:59:46,480 --> 00:59:48,760
Speaker 1: takes of something and then pick the best one. It

967
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 1: was kind of like that. Okay, how does it get

968
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:54,760
Speaker 1: started with crystalis? Then Christmas bought us from private stock.

969
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:58,240
Speaker 1: You know, that just doesn't happen, you know, Blondie looked

970
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: like it was not going anywhere. How did Crystals even

971
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: get interested? Well, we had that. We had a hit

972
01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:08,880
Speaker 1: within the flesh in Australia. It was a weird. It's

973
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:13,520
Speaker 1: own weird fluke. Um. You know the story. You know

974
01:00:13,600 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 1: the story of that is that Molly Meldrum allegedly played

975
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 1: in the Flesh, which was the B side of Ex Offender.

976
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,320
Speaker 1: He allegedly played it by mistake on his show. I

977
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:28,440
Speaker 1: asked him. I don't think it was a mistake. I

978
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: think he knew his audience and that's just the story.

979
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:35,240
Speaker 1: We also had a video that went with it too,

980
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 1: which was very early on. So you think that it

981
01:00:38,600 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: was the action in Australia that got Crystal was interested.

982
01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 1: It was it was encouraging to them that we had

983
01:00:45,600 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: a number one hit somewhere in the world. I think

984
01:00:48,800 --> 01:00:51,600
Speaker 1: it was part of the package. So you make this switch.

985
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,040
Speaker 1: At some point you switched to ship. Where is that? Um?

986
01:00:55,400 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: That was pretty much after we had been a established

987
01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:07,800
Speaker 1: I guess it was after Hearted Glass was right. Okay,

988
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:11,240
Speaker 1: then let's go back. You make this deal with Chris Salis.

989
01:01:11,840 --> 01:01:15,000
Speaker 1: Obviously private stock has to be paid off. Are they

990
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: also paid off out of your own money or theoretical money?

991
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't know, yes, probably, yeah. I mean, you know

992
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:25,800
Speaker 1: we were we were contracted to Chrysalists to do three

993
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 1: albums in a year. So we were always in fucking

994
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,920
Speaker 1: arrears with this ship. We never we were always in

995
01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:37,720
Speaker 1: breach of contract with those guys, and that led to

996
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: a lot of stress. Two. I mean, that's partly why

997
01:01:42,200 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: we're all doing drugs all the time. Elton seems to

998
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: be the only person who actually delivered on those contracts.

999
01:01:48,360 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: You know, you're having big success, and were they really

1000
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: pushing you, Hey, we want three albums a year. No,

1001
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,560
Speaker 1: it wasn't pushing, but it was just it was the

1002
01:01:56,640 --> 01:02:00,200
Speaker 1: fact that we were always always in default. You know, Oh, okay,

1003
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: how do you get hooked up with Mike Chopman. Chapman

1004
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: was probably Terry Ellis also leads, but Terry ellis a

1005
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:11,920
Speaker 1: lot and he came to see us at the Whiskey

1006
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,760
Speaker 1: and he thought we were funny and amusing, and when

1007
01:02:15,880 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 1: we met with him, and that was it just you know, well,

1008
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,680
Speaker 1: you know that was when he was the Commander. He

1009
01:02:20,760 --> 01:02:22,920
Speaker 1: did hit It, Hit It a little later. The Commander

1010
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:24,600
Speaker 1: was a little bit later. But yeah, that was right.

1011
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:26,360
Speaker 1: But I've been trying to say, yeah, it starts then

1012
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: and he ends up having Dreamland Records. He really build

1013
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:31,840
Speaker 1: his own reputation on top of Blondie. You said his

1014
01:02:31,960 --> 01:02:35,120
Speaker 1: style of working in the studio was different from god Erers.

1015
01:02:35,520 --> 01:02:38,400
Speaker 1: What was his style? Well, it was very regimented, you know.

1016
01:02:38,520 --> 01:02:45,000
Speaker 1: The um Parallel Lines record was. He was you know,

1017
01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:48,360
Speaker 1: quite the taskmaster, which we weren't prepared for, but it was.

1018
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,440
Speaker 1: We got great results with that. So how many of

1019
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 1: those songs were either chosen or written when you started

1020
01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:58,520
Speaker 1: in the studio There was a probably a budge. I

1021
01:02:58,560 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: don't think any of them were two worked up in

1022
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: the studio. Uh, some of them, you know, but the

1023
01:03:05,840 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: like you know, the Heart of Glass demo was floating

1024
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:11,520
Speaker 1: around for forever. There were very various versions of that

1025
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:14,240
Speaker 1: out in the world. So how did it turn into

1026
01:03:14,280 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: the Heart of Glass that we all know? Well, we

1027
01:03:16,400 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: had this, we had the rolland rhythm machine that synchronized

1028
01:03:21,240 --> 01:03:27,160
Speaker 1: with this rolland sin. So they went and then had

1029
01:03:28,040 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: this was the days before MIDI. But there was you know,

1030
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,880
Speaker 1: trigger electorbal trigger with each other. They spoke to each other.

1031
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:42,080
Speaker 1: So that was part of the putting it together aspect.

1032
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:44,480
Speaker 1: And did you realize it was did you hear in

1033
01:03:44,560 --> 01:03:47,920
Speaker 1: the studio and say this is gonna go No, it's

1034
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:50,640
Speaker 1: not really you know, you know, the Parallel Lines was

1035
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,680
Speaker 1: on the charts for six months before that was released

1036
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 1: as a single. So I don't know if anybody got

1037
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: the idea right away, and who the idea was it

1038
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,880
Speaker 1: to get hanging on the telephone. That was me and Debbie.

1039
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:07,560
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Lee Parris right from the Gun Club right had

1040
01:04:07,640 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: given me a mixtape and that's that was on this mixtape.

1041
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:15,800
Speaker 1: And famously we were in Tokyo in a taxi cab

1042
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,760
Speaker 1: and I had playing it on a boom box and

1043
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: the old cab driver started tapping his fingers on the

1044
01:04:22,240 --> 01:04:25,959
Speaker 1: steering wheel and I, okay, this is this is making

1045
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,160
Speaker 1: a connection with this guy. There's something to it, But

1046
01:04:29,520 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: I was I just really loved the original version, the

1047
01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 1: nerves or and then you know, the vocal on that

1048
01:04:34,720 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: is unbelievable, the way it's shouting it. Was that something

1049
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: that Chapman got out of you or did you say,

1050
01:04:40,040 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 1: this is why we want to do it? Don't know.

1051
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: I Chapman with Debbie was I don't think Debbie was

1052
01:04:46,880 --> 01:04:50,640
Speaker 1: forced into as much repetition as the band was. I think,

1053
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, he tried to get a spontaneous emotional content

1054
01:04:55,280 --> 01:04:57,160
Speaker 1: out of her. And how does Fripp end up on

1055
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: Fadeaway and radiate. Well, Frippen approached us I think after

1056
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,800
Speaker 1: a Palladium gig in New York and we had gotten

1057
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: friendly with him. We did and he we did a

1058
01:05:06,640 --> 01:05:09,320
Speaker 1: bunch of shows with him, off beat things, so it

1059
01:05:09,400 --> 01:05:12,040
Speaker 1: just seemed like a no brainer to ask him. And

1060
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: that was that song was kind of weird and experimental anyway,

1061
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:25,480
Speaker 1: phenomenal song. The song I played most still from that album. Okay,

1062
01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,800
Speaker 1: old history. But to go through that crazy lawsuit with

1063
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,600
Speaker 1: Frank and Fante, what the hell's up there? That was

1064
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: much later, and that was you know, they just wanted

1065
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:38,320
Speaker 1: to uh, well it was Nigel. Also, they wanted to

1066
01:05:38,480 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: be paid on us moving forward. They got they were

1067
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:50,040
Speaker 1: always paid on their historical connection. They're they're no when

1068
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: he's trying to not pay them on this stuff that

1069
01:05:52,640 --> 01:05:56,120
Speaker 1: they were they worked on. But we just thought that,

1070
01:05:56,640 --> 01:06:02,080
Speaker 1: you know, moving forward, touring whatever, we weren't obliged to

1071
01:06:02,160 --> 01:06:06,480
Speaker 1: pay them for uh, just having worked with us in

1072
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 1: the past. It hinged on some very weird legal little point.

1073
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,320
Speaker 1: And do you know who Marty Sulfon is, No, he

1074
01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 1: was our lawyer. He was. He was great, great character.

1075
01:06:17,760 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 1: He wrote various legal showbiz textbooks that are in place

1076
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:28,360
Speaker 1: to this day. Um, he nailed the case. I mean,

1077
01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:30,720
Speaker 1: none of us really would they had to testify. It

1078
01:06:30,760 --> 01:06:33,600
Speaker 1: could have just been him. The judge was the judge

1079
01:06:33,600 --> 01:06:35,400
Speaker 1: didn't leave the bench. She just said, Okay, I'm gonna

1080
01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 1: I can roll down. But supposedly the press was back

1081
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:41,520
Speaker 1: then that you didn't want Frank to play on the records.

1082
01:06:41,640 --> 01:06:43,840
Speaker 1: Is that true? Well, yeah, we all fell out with

1083
01:06:43,880 --> 01:06:46,400
Speaker 1: those guys, you know, But no, this was much later.

1084
01:06:46,520 --> 01:06:49,480
Speaker 1: This was going into the no exit period. Okay, at

1085
01:06:49,560 --> 01:06:52,720
Speaker 1: some point you get hooked up with Sheep. He makes

1086
01:06:52,760 --> 01:06:55,760
Speaker 1: the movie Roady Wasn't on Eat to the Beat where

1087
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,480
Speaker 1: he made a video for every song, Yes, every song.

1088
01:06:58,520 --> 01:07:00,240
Speaker 1: I think we were the first bands of do that.

1089
01:07:00,680 --> 01:07:02,960
Speaker 1: I think they can't in it around the same period,

1090
01:07:03,040 --> 01:07:05,240
Speaker 1: but I think we were the first one to do

1091
01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:10,520
Speaker 1: like a specific setup and working. We sat good bad

1092
01:07:10,600 --> 01:07:13,040
Speaker 1: Otherwise it was good up to a point. You know,

1093
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: what was the point? Well, we just kind of it

1094
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 1: just all fell apart. But it was a lot to

1095
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 1: do with us being drug addicts. Also, well when you're

1096
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: hey day before it fell apart. He is big on

1097
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:28,320
Speaker 1: promotional stuff and by the same token, you were really

1098
01:07:28,400 --> 01:07:32,240
Speaker 1: his first step outside after Alice Cooper. So did he

1099
01:07:32,320 --> 01:07:34,480
Speaker 1: give enough time? And we're a lot of his things

1100
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:37,040
Speaker 1: helpful or it's just you know, he was better than

1101
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,120
Speaker 1: Peter Leeds. No, he was good. He was you know,

1102
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I liked him. It just ended up unfortunately.

1103
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:45,600
Speaker 1: Uh there we did. We went to a party on

1104
01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,600
Speaker 1: a tank. He gotta he we We've had some party

1105
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,120
Speaker 1: at some club. It might have been a Parallel Lines

1106
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:56,720
Speaker 1: or Auto American release party, and we they rented a

1107
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: Sherman tank and we pulled up to the club dried

1108
01:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,040
Speaker 1: a actual tank that was a sheep thing. It was nice. Okay.

1109
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:08,080
Speaker 1: On Eat to the Beat, you know, my favorite song

1110
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 1: on that is the hardest part. Can you tell me

1111
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: any backstory there? That was just to do a sort

1112
01:08:13,240 --> 01:08:17,559
Speaker 1: of metal funk song. I can't really remember the specific

1113
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:23,480
Speaker 1: inspiration on that excepts stylistically okay, and then Auto American

1114
01:08:23,720 --> 01:08:26,719
Speaker 1: has the rap on it. That was the thing. I mean, Actually,

1115
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 1: the only song I really knew was going to be

1116
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:33,920
Speaker 1: a hit even before we recorded it was Tired It's High.

1117
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:39,840
Speaker 1: I just was enamored of the original version and I

1118
01:08:40,000 --> 01:08:42,559
Speaker 1: just had but I was aware of our position at

1119
01:08:42,600 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: the time, which was, you know, we were all the

1120
01:08:44,520 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 1: way up there, and I knew if we recorded this

1121
01:08:47,320 --> 01:08:49,800
Speaker 1: well and put it out, it would be successful. By

1122
01:08:49,840 --> 01:08:52,840
Speaker 1: the same toke at At this point, reggae has very

1123
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,400
Speaker 1: little traction in the marketplace. One could say that you

1124
01:08:55,520 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: broke reggae wide in America. Man, maybe I don't know.

1125
01:08:59,320 --> 01:09:03,600
Speaker 1: Then there's the Richard dear a movie and call me

1126
01:09:04,360 --> 01:09:08,680
Speaker 1: his build as a debbie herey solo track? Why and

1127
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:11,000
Speaker 1: you feel good or bad about that? Because we went

1128
01:09:11,040 --> 01:09:14,120
Speaker 1: in with Georgio and he just didn't want to. You know,

1129
01:09:14,280 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: Georgio was not like Chapman who was willing to um

1130
01:09:20,200 --> 01:09:23,519
Speaker 1: oversee the band. He just wanted to. He was very

1131
01:09:23,520 --> 01:09:27,639
Speaker 1: He worked very quickly. So we we did our version

1132
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:30,560
Speaker 1: of the stuff. But I'm as far as I know,

1133
01:09:30,680 --> 01:09:32,800
Speaker 1: he replaced a lot of the stuff, and some of

1134
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 1: our original parts may have inspired the stuff he replaced

1135
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:38,320
Speaker 1: them with, but I think he used his own guys.

1136
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 1: He just had, you know, to two assistance who did stuff.

1137
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it's clem clemma is on there for sure. Okay,

1138
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:47,640
Speaker 1: can you put out the next album? And it's a

1139
01:09:47,720 --> 01:09:52,640
Speaker 1: stiff relative to expectations? What was that like? It? You know?

1140
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:58,519
Speaker 1: It was this dressing. I guess Um, the cover really sucked.

1141
01:09:58,960 --> 01:10:01,800
Speaker 1: We just couldn't get We couldn't get I couldn't get

1142
01:10:01,800 --> 01:10:03,439
Speaker 1: it off the ground. The covered. The idea for the

1143
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:07,120
Speaker 1: cover was to have everybody be get like Rick Baker

1144
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:09,479
Speaker 1: or one of these really great makeup guys and have

1145
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 1: everybody be half animal half human and call it The Hunter. Okay,

1146
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,160
Speaker 1: but they just couldn't get that ship together, so it

1147
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:19,960
Speaker 1: just wound up being this sort of mediocre photograph. Okay,

1148
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 1: At what point do you realize the album isn't going oh?

1149
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:27,280
Speaker 1: You know. At the same time, ever, we were dealing

1150
01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: with this drug addiction stuff that was ongoing. We were

1151
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:36,439
Speaker 1: uh doing promotion, and we were working constantly. You know,

1152
01:10:36,600 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: there was a lot of headbutting in the band. I

1153
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:41,799
Speaker 1: mean that's somewhere in there is when we parted with Frankie,

1154
01:10:43,160 --> 01:10:45,680
Speaker 1: you know, towards the end there we the very the

1155
01:10:45,800 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: very last tour we did without Frankie. Um, you know,

1156
01:10:51,120 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: it was it was a difficult period. You have any

1157
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: conversation with Frankie and Nigel these days, No, No, I didn't.

1158
01:10:57,680 --> 01:10:59,720
Speaker 1: I Mean that's why the whole you know, the whole

1159
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame thing was so fucking weird, because I

1160
01:11:03,760 --> 01:11:07,240
Speaker 1: hadn't at that point. I hadn't spoken to Frankie for

1161
01:11:07,520 --> 01:11:10,760
Speaker 1: twenty years or whatever. And you know, if those guys

1162
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: had really wanted to play with us, I might have

1163
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:17,320
Speaker 1: considered it. I mean probably not, but if I had

1164
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:19,679
Speaker 1: heard from them, I might have considered it, you know. Okay,

1165
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:23,000
Speaker 1: So what was it like for the three four years

1166
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:25,040
Speaker 1: we were on top of the world. That was nice.

1167
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 1: I mean I remember Marty Thou coming to our fancy

1168
01:11:31,320 --> 01:11:35,240
Speaker 1: house and saying, do you guys realized you can buy

1169
01:11:35,280 --> 01:11:38,360
Speaker 1: it if you want, And I hadn't really thought of that,

1170
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:42,400
Speaker 1: and I bought a Tympani. You know, as as I

1171
01:11:42,520 --> 01:11:45,680
Speaker 1: frequently say now, the model for a rock star has

1172
01:11:45,800 --> 01:11:49,360
Speaker 1: changed so much. I really wasn't thinking about buying a

1173
01:11:49,479 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 1: Rolls Royce and buying a diamond watch or any of

1174
01:11:53,040 --> 01:11:54,760
Speaker 1: this kind of nonsense back then, if I you know,

1175
01:11:54,920 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 1: when I thought about spending money was just to buy

1176
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,120
Speaker 1: more guitars and recording equipment. Did you like being on

1177
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,840
Speaker 1: the road? Not like being on the road? It was okay,

1178
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 1: it was we were on the road, you know, really

1179
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:08,080
Speaker 1: straight through for several years. I mean, it was just

1180
01:12:08,160 --> 01:12:12,000
Speaker 1: almost very little let up between with recording and being

1181
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 1: on the road. It was just it was it was.

1182
01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:18,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm lucky I was a kid, so I

1183
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: could put up with that stuff. Well, some people have

1184
01:12:20,479 --> 01:12:23,960
Speaker 1: been around the world and see nothing. And when you

1185
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:26,920
Speaker 1: would travel to these different places, would you take advantage? Yeah,

1186
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 1: sure we go. Yeah, we would go around. Yeah. I

1187
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 1: have a lot of fun memories. All this ship is

1188
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:33,160
Speaker 1: going to be covered in my memoir. But okay, so

1189
01:12:33,240 --> 01:12:35,240
Speaker 1: if you were in Europe and you had a gig

1190
01:12:35,320 --> 01:12:37,360
Speaker 1: at night, did you say, Okay, this is the first

1191
01:12:37,400 --> 01:12:39,160
Speaker 1: time I've been to this town. I'm gonna check out

1192
01:12:39,240 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: the cultural stuff. Yeah, we would go out. We went

1193
01:12:41,280 --> 01:12:45,920
Speaker 1: to We went to Liverpool, I think, I don't know

1194
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:49,040
Speaker 1: we were playing nearby. I don't know if we actually

1195
01:12:49,080 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: we're doing a Liverpool game. We saw the remains of

1196
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 1: the Cavern Club, which at that point was just an

1197
01:12:53,479 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: empty lot that was rubble strewn and all that kind

1198
01:12:57,280 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 1: of stuff. So, what are one or two peaks from

1199
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:04,719
Speaker 1: the touring years in the first generation. Bangkok was really great.

1200
01:13:05,280 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: We were in we played New Year's even Bangkok, and

1201
01:13:09,080 --> 01:13:11,760
Speaker 1: there had been like a there had been a coup

1202
01:13:11,920 --> 01:13:14,559
Speaker 1: there and they everybody would have had to be off

1203
01:13:14,560 --> 01:13:18,920
Speaker 1: the streets from like midnight to five in the morning,

1204
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,200
Speaker 1: you know, and you weren't allowed out. There was a curfew.

1205
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:27,040
Speaker 1: And the New Year's Eve that we played, the curfew

1206
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:30,880
Speaker 1: was lifted and Bangkok, needless to say, is a big

1207
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:34,160
Speaker 1: party town and everybody went completely fucking nuts and it

1208
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:37,479
Speaker 1: was a really beautiful moment. Okay, how do you decide

1209
01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:39,840
Speaker 1: to hang it up first time around? There was it was.

1210
01:13:40,040 --> 01:13:43,759
Speaker 1: There was no moment there was. It was never addressed

1211
01:13:43,800 --> 01:13:46,839
Speaker 1: in the media. We just were sucked up on drugs.

1212
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 1: I got really sick. I got that weird skin disorder,

1213
01:13:51,680 --> 01:13:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, as a result of h I mean, my

1214
01:13:56,160 --> 01:14:00,040
Speaker 1: immune system compromised. That was it just went. You know,

1215
01:14:00,160 --> 01:14:03,479
Speaker 1: we just stopped for a while and then did a

1216
01:14:03,560 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 1: bunch of some of Debbie solo stuff after that, and

1217
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:11,200
Speaker 1: then uh put it all together later and whatever year

1218
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,800
Speaker 1: that was ninety six or something. Okay, So for that,

1219
01:14:14,120 --> 01:14:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, ten plus years in the interim, were you

1220
01:14:17,160 --> 01:14:20,160
Speaker 1: just so fucked up on drugs or did you feel

1221
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:22,679
Speaker 1: like it has been or do you feel like royalty

1222
01:14:22,720 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 1: would you feel like, I mean, we never really made

1223
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:27,200
Speaker 1: I always felt like we never made it to the

1224
01:14:27,280 --> 01:14:31,960
Speaker 1: A lists anyway, you know, regardless of what the public

1225
01:14:32,040 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: perception might be. Um, I always felt like we were

1226
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:42,600
Speaker 1: just you know, large cult phenomena. Uh, you know, we

1227
01:14:42,680 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 1: weren't completely fucked up on drugs. But you know, it's

1228
01:14:47,320 --> 01:14:52,759
Speaker 1: ups and downs. Um, I don't know what I felt

1229
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: like necessarily, It's just it was just all, you know,

1230
01:14:57,720 --> 01:14:59,680
Speaker 1: everything was part of everything else. It just seemed like

1231
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:04,840
Speaker 1: an tension. And now you have another career as a photographer.

1232
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,000
Speaker 1: How did that start? I always just always doing it.

1233
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: I you know, I was even when I was a

1234
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,719
Speaker 1: little kid. I was screwing around with a little brownie cameras.

1235
01:15:13,240 --> 01:15:15,720
Speaker 1: Then I had a guy I grew up with him,

1236
01:15:15,760 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: Dennis McGuire, and he was brilliant young photographer. He still is.

1237
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: He's he's master photographer. He apprenticed with Arbis and studied

1238
01:15:26,200 --> 01:15:30,360
Speaker 1: with Gary Winnigrad and all this stuff, and he's he was,

1239
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:36,360
Speaker 1: you know, in a big influence on my early photographic days.

1240
01:15:36,439 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 1: And I just started carrying cameras around around or so nine.

1241
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,639
Speaker 1: And you know, it's one thing having a good eye,

1242
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: it's another thing being technologically savvy. Are you also technologically

1243
01:15:49,400 --> 01:15:52,280
Speaker 1: chay savvy? Are you more point and shoot? Yeah? No?

1244
01:15:52,400 --> 01:15:54,479
Speaker 1: I mean, you know I knew your basic stuff. I

1245
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:57,759
Speaker 1: never developed my own film. I would just I would

1246
01:15:57,800 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: print a lot, but I would never I would always

1247
01:16:00,000 --> 01:16:03,920
Speaker 1: to send it film out two labs. But you know,

1248
01:16:04,000 --> 01:16:07,000
Speaker 1: I knew about F stops and I S O and

1249
01:16:07,080 --> 01:16:11,960
Speaker 1: all that stuff. And is there some greater acknowledgement you're

1250
01:16:12,000 --> 01:16:14,960
Speaker 1: looking for in the photographic world. No, I did good.

1251
01:16:15,000 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: I mean the books were very popular. Water really big

1252
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:21,479
Speaker 1: show in London at the Sumrset House that was really

1253
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: terrifically attended. Um, you know, I'm okay with where I stand.

1254
01:16:27,280 --> 01:16:31,479
Speaker 1: I could use more Instagram followers, but beyond that, you know,

1255
01:16:32,439 --> 01:16:35,439
Speaker 1: it's okay. So how did it in with you and Debbie?

1256
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:37,880
Speaker 1: We just kind of ran in a steam. It was

1257
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 1: a lot of this drugs stuff. I think we fell

1258
01:16:41,280 --> 01:16:44,320
Speaker 1: out of synchronization and but a lot of times, I

1259
01:16:44,360 --> 01:16:47,839
Speaker 1: mean I have a hard time connecting with their excess.

1260
01:16:48,280 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 1: How was it after you were disconnected? I always pissed

1261
01:16:51,040 --> 01:16:53,760
Speaker 1: off for a week or so, But then we, you know,

1262
01:16:54,240 --> 01:16:58,519
Speaker 1: just formed a new connection. And we've been always been friends.

1263
01:16:58,600 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: We were always we always had this uh like, I've

1264
01:17:04,120 --> 01:17:06,560
Speaker 1: never had a lot of fights with Debbie. You know,

1265
01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:12,080
Speaker 1: we always are very connected and we have a similar

1266
01:17:12,120 --> 01:17:14,320
Speaker 1: mindset in a similar sense of humor and we just

1267
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 1: get along. How do you feel when you got married?

1268
01:17:17,000 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 1: She was okay with that. I mean that was much later.

1269
01:17:18,600 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 1: I mean we both have been dating and doing different

1270
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:25,759
Speaker 1: having different relationships. Okay, So where do you see yourself?

1271
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:28,600
Speaker 1: You say you see yourself as a B player in

1272
01:17:28,720 --> 01:17:30,680
Speaker 1: the rock roll but you're in the rock and roll

1273
01:17:30,720 --> 01:17:33,719
Speaker 1: Hall of Fame. You know, what do you see yourself

1274
01:17:34,160 --> 01:17:36,880
Speaker 1: and what do you still yearn to achieve? I just,

1275
01:17:37,200 --> 01:17:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know. I may be nice to

1276
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 1: have a little I guess I have a small bit

1277
01:17:45,280 --> 01:17:47,839
Speaker 1: of influence, you know, I have people that pay attention

1278
01:17:47,920 --> 01:17:53,760
Speaker 1: to my stupid commentary online. But I just you don't

1279
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 1: want to be happy and I have a have a

1280
01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:00,640
Speaker 1: good time. You know. My energy level is way down now.

1281
01:18:00,760 --> 01:18:03,080
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm gonna do the touring with

1282
01:18:03,200 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 1: the band going forward. I will definitely do recording, but

1283
01:18:08,040 --> 01:18:12,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I'm gonna go out with the touring situation.

1284
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:14,560
Speaker 1: I just have kind of had it with airports and

1285
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:17,479
Speaker 1: hotels at this point. But I just want to be

1286
01:18:17,680 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 1: happy and have the family be safe and happy. Okay,

1287
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: but you are touring imminently, right, Yeah, No, I don't

1288
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:26,280
Speaker 1: know if I'm gonna do it. I don't think I'm

1289
01:18:26,280 --> 01:18:28,840
Speaker 1: gonna do it. I missed a few shows here and

1290
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:32,120
Speaker 1: there recently. I just I don't have the energy. I

1291
01:18:32,160 --> 01:18:35,519
Speaker 1: have fucking heart bullshit, you know, murmur of the heart,

1292
01:18:35,920 --> 01:18:39,920
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. I take medications for that

1293
01:18:40,080 --> 01:18:42,639
Speaker 1: and a little fatigue, and I don't know if I'm

1294
01:18:42,800 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: going to go out with the guys. They'll have it replacement.

1295
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:47,920
Speaker 1: How did you discover you had a heart issue? Um?

1296
01:18:48,040 --> 01:18:53,559
Speaker 1: And I discover just doubting a couple of like sort

1297
01:18:53,600 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: of semurite painting things, low blood pressure check ups. I

1298
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:03,320
Speaker 1: do have a fib you know. I mean it's not

1299
01:19:03,600 --> 01:19:05,360
Speaker 1: I don't have any I have never had any kind

1300
01:19:05,400 --> 01:19:07,080
Speaker 1: of surgery or anything like that. I just if they

1301
01:19:07,160 --> 01:19:11,120
Speaker 1: just keep it steady with medications, and if you don't

1302
01:19:11,160 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 1: go out, you still get paid. How does everybody else feel?

1303
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know bon Jovi does without Richie sam

1304
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:19,599
Speaker 1: Bora the rest of the band. Fine, if you don't

1305
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:22,760
Speaker 1: go out, no, I mean they're you know, it's but

1306
01:19:23,280 --> 01:19:26,400
Speaker 1: we we the last couple of shows that I didn't do.

1307
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,400
Speaker 1: They we got some kid who's really great and he

1308
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:32,519
Speaker 1: just replicates the parts. But yeah, no, I mean I

1309
01:19:32,600 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 1: feel you know, I I don't want to let the

1310
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,160
Speaker 1: fans down and let the band down. But I am

1311
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:42,479
Speaker 1: completely involved with this next bunch of recordings that we're

1312
01:19:42,520 --> 01:19:46,840
Speaker 1: working on. So and and you know, and I'm again

1313
01:19:46,880 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: I'm pitching this memoir and I then we have another

1314
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,960
Speaker 1: I have another photo book coming out in October, I'm told,

1315
01:19:52,520 --> 01:19:57,200
Speaker 1: which is the our adventures with Geeger. You know when

1316
01:19:57,240 --> 01:20:01,519
Speaker 1: we did the cuckoo stuff. So I'm still in the mix, okay,

1317
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:04,000
Speaker 1: And how often do you play the guitar? Occasionally? It

1318
01:20:04,120 --> 01:20:06,280
Speaker 1: was it was the last couple of days. It doesn't

1319
01:20:06,280 --> 01:20:08,719
Speaker 1: go away, this total muscle memory. I'm kind of amazed

1320
01:20:09,160 --> 01:20:10,720
Speaker 1: they could not play for months and then just pick

1321
01:20:10,760 --> 01:20:12,880
Speaker 1: it up and be the exactly where he left off.

1322
01:20:13,080 --> 01:20:15,960
Speaker 1: I mean, Johnny Raman told me he never played except

1323
01:20:15,960 --> 01:20:19,720
Speaker 1: what he was doing shows or recording period. That was it.

1324
01:20:19,920 --> 01:20:21,960
Speaker 1: Since you saw them from the beginning, was there any

1325
01:20:22,000 --> 01:20:25,760
Speaker 1: evolution or was that the acht from gig one? Yeah? No, no, yeah,

1326
01:20:25,920 --> 01:20:28,120
Speaker 1: there was an evolution, and they got tighter and tighter,

1327
01:20:28,640 --> 01:20:32,000
Speaker 1: and then the whole Joey phenomenon was so great to

1328
01:20:32,120 --> 01:20:34,640
Speaker 1: see him, you know, because he was very awkward and

1329
01:20:35,439 --> 01:20:38,040
Speaker 1: much more tentative in the beginning, and to see him

1330
01:20:38,080 --> 01:20:42,080
Speaker 1: become this powerful, dominant rock god by the end of

1331
01:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,320
Speaker 1: the whole thing was fucking amazing. You know. Well, the

1332
01:20:44,400 --> 01:20:46,479
Speaker 1: weird things, so they're all dead. You think there must

1333
01:20:46,520 --> 01:20:49,439
Speaker 1: have been something in the water in the videos, you know,

1334
01:20:49,479 --> 01:20:50,840
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're gonna say. I don't know

1335
01:20:50,880 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 1: about that ship, you know. Now, my wife was My

1336
01:20:53,240 --> 01:20:58,120
Speaker 1: wife is from Queen's also, and she had thyroid cancer.

1337
01:20:58,760 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: But we I think we also think that it was

1338
01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 1: from being so close to the towers during nine eleven

1339
01:21:04,680 --> 01:21:07,240
Speaker 1: because we were living right there, so we were in

1340
01:21:07,320 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 1: the area that is, uh, you know, suggested for that

1341
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:14,479
Speaker 1: kind of stuff happening. And how is she now? Yeah,

1342
01:21:14,520 --> 01:21:16,280
Speaker 1: she's okay. I mean she's got to take you know,

1343
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:21,799
Speaker 1: the synthroid forever. So in terms of other art forms

1344
01:21:21,920 --> 01:21:24,920
Speaker 1: like movies and streaming television, you spend a lot of

1345
01:21:24,960 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 1: time there. Really yeah, yeah, well, actually watched Sucking Everything. Well,

1346
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:32,320
Speaker 1: can you recommend the new Ben Stiller thing, Severance. It's

1347
01:21:32,360 --> 01:21:35,080
Speaker 1: really great. I only watched two of those. That's totally great.

1348
01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:41,160
Speaker 1: I love fucking Peacemaker. Peacemaker is the greatest God damned thing. Um.

1349
01:21:42,200 --> 01:21:49,480
Speaker 1: John Cena is like uh Carrie Grant as a bodybuilder.

1350
01:21:49,840 --> 01:21:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean, he has got this old world Hollywood charm.

1351
01:21:54,120 --> 01:21:57,160
Speaker 1: That's just fantastic. I had no idea that that guy was,

1352
01:21:57,760 --> 01:22:00,280
Speaker 1: you know, up to that level. But he's really great.

1353
01:22:00,960 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 1: And you know, James Gunn it's great. All those guys

1354
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,400
Speaker 1: are great. And then you know, of course Succession. We're

1355
01:22:07,520 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: big fans of um a lot of stuff. I really

1356
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 1: like Power the Dog. The Dog was great. I love

1357
01:22:14,479 --> 01:22:17,840
Speaker 1: the Korean movies. You know, I'm watching this series starting

1358
01:22:17,960 --> 01:22:21,280
Speaker 1: last night. Did you watch squid Game? Yea, they say

1359
01:22:21,400 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 1: this is bigger than squid Game In South Korea. The

1360
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 1: show called hell Bound. You know this one hell I

1361
01:22:27,320 --> 01:22:29,360
Speaker 1: can't really remember it though, Well, don't ruin it for me.

1362
01:22:29,400 --> 01:22:31,599
Speaker 1: I'm only like a third in, but it's like it's

1363
01:22:31,640 --> 01:22:34,840
Speaker 1: only six episodes, really wild. That's one where they tell

1364
01:22:34,840 --> 01:22:37,800
Speaker 1: you when you're gonna die. Yeah, yeah, well that's you know.

1365
01:22:37,880 --> 01:22:41,080
Speaker 1: The original is the anime Death Note. You know Death Note? No,

1366
01:22:41,240 --> 01:22:46,040
Speaker 1: I don't Death Note. It's an old anime manga whereby

1367
01:22:46,120 --> 01:22:51,360
Speaker 1: the guy gets a notebook from hell or wherever it is,

1368
01:22:51,400 --> 01:22:53,280
Speaker 1: and if you write somebody's name and it, they die

1369
01:22:54,439 --> 01:22:57,240
Speaker 1: and it goes from there, right, the same thing. So

1370
01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:01,040
Speaker 1: I know you're into the modern music, but having seen

1371
01:23:01,160 --> 01:23:04,200
Speaker 1: the scene for sixty years, what do you think about

1372
01:23:04,240 --> 01:23:07,360
Speaker 1: the music and the music business today relative to yesteryear.

1373
01:23:07,560 --> 01:23:09,400
Speaker 1: There's just there's a lot of great stuff, you know.

1374
01:23:09,680 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: I always hear stuff. I just watched Um House of

1375
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: Gucci and there was a fucking fantastic song by somebody

1376
01:23:24,280 --> 01:23:28,519
Speaker 1: named Alice, an Italian song, Italian language song and there

1377
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,000
Speaker 1: that I just have been playing over and over against

1378
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:33,120
Speaker 1: since seeing the movie. That was the most that was

1379
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,320
Speaker 1: my biggest takeaway from the movie was this song. Uh,

1380
01:23:39,000 --> 01:23:41,200
Speaker 1: there's there's great stuff out there. Well, I guess you know.

1381
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:44,280
Speaker 1: The ethos is different now. The music is a step

1382
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:48,479
Speaker 1: to create a brand to sell and other stuff, and

1383
01:23:48,640 --> 01:23:51,640
Speaker 1: it's very different than it was during. The model for

1384
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:53,920
Speaker 1: the rock star is a completely different thing, you know.

1385
01:23:53,960 --> 01:23:57,040
Speaker 1: It's now it's all about bling or whatever. I mean.

1386
01:23:57,160 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: I'm consistently amused by Kanye A. That thing the other

1387
01:24:01,240 --> 01:24:06,519
Speaker 1: night was very was amusing. Let's go just a little

1388
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 1: bit deeper. Yes, it was amusing. But isn't it sad

1389
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,400
Speaker 1: to see a bipolar guy reported on in the news

1390
01:24:14,479 --> 01:24:17,160
Speaker 1: at infinite. You know, eventually it's going to turn out

1391
01:24:17,240 --> 01:24:20,280
Speaker 1: bad if it hasn't already. Yeah, No, it's it's you know,

1392
01:24:20,640 --> 01:24:25,519
Speaker 1: but the guy has so much influence. Um. Like I say,

1393
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:30,040
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, it's like giving an arsonist gallons

1394
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:32,919
Speaker 1: of gasoline. You know, he putting him in this position.

1395
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:39,880
Speaker 1: He Um, it's bizarre. But maybe it was always going on.

1396
01:24:40,040 --> 01:24:43,240
Speaker 1: It's just a little more in your face now. Maybe

1397
01:24:43,280 --> 01:24:45,400
Speaker 1: these kinds of things were always happening. Well, what do

1398
01:24:45,479 --> 01:24:48,400
Speaker 1: you think is drawing everybody to Kanye? He successfully? He does.

1399
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: He is a genius. He does a lot of great stuff.

1400
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:55,560
Speaker 1: But people are also absorbed in the drama. And you know,

1401
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:59,759
Speaker 1: coming out in front of thirty thousand people and complaining

1402
01:24:59,760 --> 01:25:02,760
Speaker 1: about your ex's boyfriend and how you're gonna beat him

1403
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:06,639
Speaker 1: up is certainly it's on level. You know. Well, it's

1404
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 1: the train wreck. I mean, you can't stop paying attention

1405
01:25:09,000 --> 01:25:12,080
Speaker 1: to the train wreck. But eventually, you know, it hits

1406
01:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,240
Speaker 1: a wall. Okay, Chris, thanks so much for taking the track. Thanks,

1407
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:18,080
Speaker 1: but I really appreciate your message that they say until

1408
01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:20,240
Speaker 1: next time. This is Bob left SAX