WEBVTT - The Battle of the Sexes 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.720 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:14.440 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh and there's Chuck. 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:17.360 It's just two of us, and that's great because I'll 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.360 be playing the role of Billy Junie Kink and Chuck's 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.959 going to play the role of male show Bennis Pig 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.480 Bobby and produce. Oh man, take it, Chuck. Hey. 0:00:27.480 --> 0:00:28.880 Before we get going on this one, I have a 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.280 quick shout out and this is coming out a couple 0:00:32.320 --> 0:00:34.000 of days after I did this because we're cutting it 0:00:34.040 --> 0:00:36.640 so close because of our week off last week. But 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:40.720 that makes me happy because I was asked a friend 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:44.360 of mine's son. His name is Royce. He is a student, 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.720 a junior at Midtown High School here in Atlanta, and 0:00:47.960 --> 0:00:52.239 he has a teacher, Miss Smolcoe, who is a long 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:55.279 time Stuff you Should Know listener. And when Royce told 0:00:55.320 --> 0:00:57.920 Miss smokeol like, Hey, I know that guy. We're buddies. 0:00:58.000 --> 0:01:00.880 We got hogs games together, kind of flipped out and 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.600 was like, oh my god, I wonder if, like, would 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.080 he be interested in helping us out with our podcast program? 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:06.800 Oh cool? 0:01:06.840 --> 0:01:10.639 And they set it up via email and I spent 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:16.959 yesterday which was in our World Monday at Midtown High 0:01:16.959 --> 0:01:20.560 School addressing the junior class about two hundred kids, and 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.959 I gotta say, man, it was an incredible experience. The 0:01:26.040 --> 0:01:30.920 students were into it. They were engaged, they had great questions, 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.040 they had great answers, they were you know, a lot 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:35.679 of it was sharing, you know, what they're doing with 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:38.160 this podcast project, which is based off of like stuff 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:42.319 you should know style stuff, which was super cool, like 0:01:42.400 --> 0:01:45.520 these real philosophical questions that they're digging into and taking 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:50.320 opposite sides and debating, and they were seeking advice and 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.560 it was just it was an incredible experience. And I 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:57.600 just I left like on a real high about gen 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:01.240 Z and like where our future is headed. And it 0:02:01.360 --> 0:02:02.240 was just awesome. 0:02:02.600 --> 0:02:05.800 Great. So the broad strokes are gen Z got Chuck 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:06.680 high yesterday. 0:02:07.000 --> 0:02:11.320 Yeah, yeah, they got me super high. It was really cool. 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.920 They were all just amazing kids, and miss Smolco is wonderful. 0:02:15.440 --> 0:02:18.960 And the other teacher, I think his name was Alex, 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:21.400 I can't remember his last name, but he was super nice. 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.839 And they're just like, hats off to these teachers. What's 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.480 going on in the at least at Midtown High School 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:31.320 is amazing, And I just left feeling great. That was awesome. 0:02:31.840 --> 0:02:33.639 I think Royce is getting in a. 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:38.160 You know, Royce wasn't even there. He's does like a 0:02:38.280 --> 0:02:41.320 late arrival thing because of like work study or something, 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:43.760 and so I was like, dude. I text him, was 0:02:43.760 --> 0:02:45.480 like where were you? And he explained the whole deal 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:47.399 like that he's not even allowed in school till later. 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:51.920 So it was just one of those things. But everyone 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:53.720 was super nice and it was just it was was 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.360 so cool to see how into it everybody was. 0:02:55.480 --> 0:02:56.080 That's awesome. 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:58.240 Well way you go, Chuck, Oh, and real quick, there 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.840 were a couple of students I won't name them. I 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.600 have permission to name Royce because he's a pal, but 0:03:03.120 --> 0:03:05.840 there were two legitimate, big time stuff you should know 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.359 listeners in the junior class that came up after and 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.320 said hello, and they were both like really really. 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.600 Nice, awesome shout out Thing one and thing two. 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:15.240 That's right, way to. 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.000 Go, Chuck. You were basically a teacher for that moment. 0:03:18.800 --> 0:03:21.079 I kind of felt that way. Maybe one day when 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:22.880 I retire, I'll just like go and teach for real. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:28.000 I'll let you borrow my tweet jacket with the swedelboat watches. 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:31.119 That don't be dumb jacket. Wow, that's a big deal. 0:03:31.600 --> 0:03:34.160 You have to overlook all the stains on it, all. Right, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:39.560 So we are talking about the Battle of the sexes today, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:43.920 which I guess. I mean, this is a tough act 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:45.160 to follow after your story. 0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:48.560 Frankly, No, this is a great fun sort of pop 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:53.400 culture history story and sports story. There was a movie 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.360 about it just a handful of years ago, starring Steve 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:00.720 Carell as Bobby Riggs and Emma Stone as Bill King, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.840 where they portrayed the very famous tennis match between a 0:04:05.920 --> 0:04:11.040 male chauveness pig and aging over the hill hustler tennis 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:15.360 star that you know, basically came out and said, you 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.400 know what, men are better at women than everything, and 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.440 an old me can beat a young champion and Billy 0:04:22.520 --> 0:04:25.560 Jean King, and let's do it on national TV at 0:04:25.600 --> 0:04:27.800 the Houston Astrodome in front of a ton of people. 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.480 Yeah, and that's what happened the end, that's right. So 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.320 this was a really big deal. I mean it sounds 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:39.400 like just kind of light hearted, maybe a bit of 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:42.120 a joke. This actually still happens today, their battle of 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.800 the sexist tennis matches. Yeah, this was the first one 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:50.480 and it was a very big deal for everyone involved. 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.440 On the one hand, you have Bobby Riggs, like you said, 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:56.839 over the hill. He was fifty five and he was 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:00.799 trying to right, he was trying to fi two weeks 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.440 he was, Oh, that's right, the IDEs of March are 0:05:03.440 --> 0:05:03.960 coming up. 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.080 Oh boy, yeah, so over the hill, I get it, okay. 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:10.560 Yes, although fifty five in nineteen seventy three was a 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.800 lot different than fifty five now right. 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.200 Yeah, yeah, I don't look like Bobby Riggs. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.560 But he was over the hill, not just necessarily because 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:19.359 of his age. He just been so far out of 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:22.240 tennis for so long. He was an attention hound and 0:05:22.279 --> 0:05:24.120 he wanted to get back in the spotlight. So for 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.680 him this was a gambit. It was a lot of 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:28.880 work to do it, but it was something he was 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:32.080 trying to do. On the other side was Billy Jing King, 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.479 who he took this very seriously because to her this 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:40.360 was symbolic of women's rights, which she was a tireless 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:45.240 fighter for, not just before this but after for essentially 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:46.560 your whole life still today. 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:50.000 Yeah, she's great. Love Billy Jing King. 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:51.240 She's a hero. 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:54.760 Bobby Riggs. We'll talk about him in depth We're not 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.920 going to make excuses for the guy. But I will 0:05:56.920 --> 0:05:59.880 say Billy Jinking remained very good friends with him and 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.680 never came out and said like you know, I mean, 0:06:04.120 --> 0:06:05.600 when they were going at it, she was kind of 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:07.840 playing him up as a male Chownes pig, which he was, 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.320 but she would end up saying like Bobby Riggs was 0:06:12.240 --> 0:06:14.440 a man of his time and sort of a victim 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.760 of being a man of his time, so she kind 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:18.240 of went easy on him. I'm not sure I'm going 0:06:18.279 --> 0:06:19.240 to go so easy on him. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:23.160 Well, I saw, I saw in places that there's it's 0:06:23.320 --> 0:06:26.160 questionable whether he actually like even believed most of the 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.320 stuff he was saying that all again, all this was 0:06:28.320 --> 0:06:31.520 a gambit. He figured out a really good way to yeah, 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:35.240 get media attention was to just be like the most 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.800 loudmouthed Chauvenes's pig, just saying the most offensive stuff and 0:06:38.839 --> 0:06:43.240 becoming loathsome to women. That this would this would just 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.440 generate more buzz and more hype for what he was 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:48.360 trying to do, which I mean, just doing that is 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.000 a jerk move, but it's it's it's not set in 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:57.120 stone that he was someone who actually harbored these feelings personally, 0:06:57.200 --> 0:06:59.279 So you got to bear that in mind while we're 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:04.560 telling this, because a lot of people realized that, like 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:07.800 anti feminists, a lot of men don't realize it, and 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.560 a lot of feminists don't realize it. They took it 0:07:11.120 --> 0:07:13.640 everything he was doing very seriously, but like you said, 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.040 Billy Jing King didn't, which is a huge signal right there. 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:22.440 Yeah, and I just hit this just hit my brain. 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:25.240 If I'm going to go hard on Bobby Rigs, then 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:27.360 I also need to do the same to Andy Kaufman 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:31.040 and his whole wrestling stick, which I think is one 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:33.160 of the great funny kind of comedy bits. But it 0:07:33.240 --> 0:07:35.800 was kind of the same thing, like playing a role 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:38.040 to get women riled up to get attention. 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.560 Well, really, if we learned anything from this battle of 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:43.960 the sexist tennis matches, if you're gonna go hard on 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:46.360 Bobby Riggs, you need to go hard on Billy Jing King. 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.800 Right. Should we go back to the early seventies and 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:54.440 set the stage, Yes, all right. Early nineteen seventies was 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.320 it was a pretty volatile time. It was a big 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.400 time for women to are kind of standing up for 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:05.600 real and saying like, hey, we want attention. We want rights. 0:08:05.680 --> 0:08:07.000 We want the same rights as men. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:08.040 Roe v. 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:11.840 Wade was decided in seventy three. The Equal Rights Amendment 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:15.600 was all over the news, and the case of sports, 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.280 certainly nineteen seventy two with Title nine of the Education 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:23.560 Amendments Act that required schools to offer girls and women 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.880 the opportunities to basically get equal funding and participate equally 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:32.360 in athletics as boys and men. So it was a 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.920 It was a big time for women's advocacy and feminism 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:40.520 and women's rights between like nineteen and you know, certainly 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:43.120 before that, but definitely between nineteen seventy and like nineteen 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:43.720 seventy five. 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.679 Yeah, just as an aside, we did, if I may 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:49.959 say so, a pretty good episode on the Equal Rights 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:52.480 Amendment in twenty twenty one called why is the Era 0:08:52.679 --> 0:08:53.719 still not ratified? 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:55.240 Yeah, which is true. 0:08:55.400 --> 0:08:58.079 Yeah. So, yeah, it was a big time. There was 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:01.600 a lot of momentum for women's lib feminism. It was 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.080 also a big time for tennis, which was becoming really, 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.720 really popular, especially in the United States. The number of 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:13.080 Americans who played tennis tripled from nineteen seventy to nineteen 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:16.240 seventy four. And one of the reasons why is because 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:23.400 the tennis world started holding opens. I never knew this before, 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.640 but the US opened the Australian Open. The reason they're 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.960 called opens because they're open to all players. You can 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:29.840 be an amateur, you can be a pro, and you 0:09:29.880 --> 0:09:34.440 can compete in this These tournaments an open tournament that 0:09:34.559 --> 0:09:36.760 was brand new. I think Wimbledon was the first one 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:39.920 to start it, I think in nineteen sixty eight. So 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:44.439 a lot of really freaky, exciting stuff's going on in the. 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:48.680 World, that's right. Billy Jean King was and we should 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.640 also point out that, you know, as far as wage disparity, 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.360 in nineteen sixty eight, if you were a professional tennis player, 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:57.679 you earned two to three times as much as a woman. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.880 And when the sport grew, that gap actually grew, it 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.320 didn't get more narrow, which was pretty startling at the time. 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.360 But Billy Jean King was born in nineteen forty three, 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.680 and by the time this event rolled around, she was huge. 0:10:14.200 --> 0:10:17.160 She had won ten Grand Slam titles by seventy three. 0:10:18.000 --> 0:10:20.439 She was a number one ranked tennis player six different 0:10:20.520 --> 0:10:24.839 times in nineteen seventy or by nineteen seventy three was 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.760 the nineteen seventy two Sports Illustrated Sportsperson of the Year, 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.800 and like you said, was a real feminist activist kind 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.959 of from the jump. I think there was a story 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.520 from when she was a kid, when she was eleven 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:38.000 or twelve, a junior player, she was not allowed to 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:41.120 be in a photo like a tournament photo because she 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:43.440 wasn't wearing the tennis skirt. She was wearing shorts, and 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.800 they said, you can't be in this picture. And immediately 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.160 little twelve year old Billy Jean King was like, what 0:10:48.240 --> 0:10:48.600 the hell. 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.640 Yeah, she was like, these are sports. They said, that doesn't. 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:54.000 Count, right, that's not a thing yet. 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:58.240 So yeah. And one thing about Billy Jean King from 0:10:58.640 --> 0:11:00.560 a bunch of stuff I read and saw about hers, 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:05.120 that like she's she was tireless and still it. She's 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.560 a tireless activist for women's rights, like she did ever 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.400 slow down. And when you kind of learn about all 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.040 the side stuff she did to promote women in tennis 0:11:14.080 --> 0:11:18.760 and women's rights in general, Like on top of that, 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:23.000 bear in mind she's one of the top tennis players 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:26.840 in the world by dominating in tennis, so that takes 0:11:26.840 --> 0:11:28.880 a lot of practice, a lot of dedication, and she's 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.240 doing all this other stuff at the same time. So 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:34.120 she's like basically the definition of tireless. 0:11:34.440 --> 0:11:37.400 Yeah, and she was doing this in the nineteen sixties 0:11:37.400 --> 0:11:40.120 because all those accomplishments I mentioned was by seventy three. 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:43.480 But in nineteen sixty six she was the number one 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:46.200 women's tennis player in the world and she was making 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.960 one hundred dollars a week as a playground instructor at 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:54.400 Los Angeles State College. So the money the athletes were 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.680 making was not anything like it is today, and it 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:00.640 was way, way worse for women. I think first Open 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.680 you mentioned at Wimbledon in sixty eight, she won that 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.240 tournament and won seven hundred and fifty pounds. Rod Labor, 0:12:08.280 --> 0:12:11.880 the men's champion, won two thousand pounds, and she was 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.400 like in sixty eight, she was like, this is totally unfair. 0:12:14.440 --> 0:12:15.000 What's going on? 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:18.560 Yeah, and money comes up a lot. It was. The 0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:21.839 reason why is it's an easy shorthand to basically point 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:27.160 out women's lesser treatment compared to men. It's also something 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.200 that most people can just kind of wrap their minds around, like, yeah, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:32.200 seven hundred and fifty pounds is a lot less than 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:35.080 two thousand pounds, but they're both the champions. That doesn't 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.360 make any sense. So money is a big focus throughout this, 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:41.680 but it's not just because everybody wants money, you know. 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:48.080 Yeah, totally. So in nineteen seventy, Billy Jean King was like, 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:50.560 we need to do something sort of official and sort 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.319 of big here. So she looked to a woman named 0:12:53.320 --> 0:12:56.960 Gladys Heldman, who was the founder of World Tennis magazine. 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.440 She was a very big prominent figure. You're in the 0:13:00.440 --> 0:13:04.679 tennis world overall, obviously because of World Tennis, and also 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:07.760 because she was at the time the mother of a 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.760 very high ranked player named Julie Heldman. That was her daughter. 0:13:11.360 --> 0:13:13.280 So she was a good person to go to. And 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.240 they said, here's what we can do to make a splash. 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:19.080 There's a tennis tournament coming up called the Pacific Southwest 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.520 Open in LA where they're paying The prize purse for 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.640 the men's champion is twelve five hundred, the purse for 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.040 the women's champion is fifteen hundred dollars, which I mean, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:32.600 looking back at the Wimbledon disparity, that wasn't too bad 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:36.120 compared to this. Yeah, and this was even after that, 0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:39.960 and they said, why don't we boycott this tournament? And 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.360 Gladys Heldman said, you know what, why don't we start 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:46.680 our own tournament that competes with this tournament, And everyone 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:49.120 went ooh, this sounds exciting. 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.679 Yeah, so yeah, that was a huge step beyond what 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.160 they were originally thinking of. And so the US Tennis 0:13:56.200 --> 0:13:58.360 Association at the time they were called the US Lawn 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:04.400 Tennis Association also to They were like, hey, go ahead 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:06.559 and try that, but we are going to suspend you. 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.560 We might ban you from tournament tournament play, We're going 0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.800 to erase your rankings, like it's going to be a 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.679 bad jam if you guys go off and form your 0:14:14.720 --> 0:14:18.840 own tournament. And that it took a lot of bravery 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:21.160 because not all women tennis players signed on for this. 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.720 In fact, only nine, including Billy Jeane King, said you 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.400 know what, we're going to go do this anyway, and 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.120 so they signed contracts with Heldman, and so they became 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:35.120 pros on this other tour, which protected them from getting 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:41.840 punished on the USLTA tour, and they started their own championship, 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.120 which eventually was I think supported and sponsored by Virginia 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:47.320 Slims Cigarettes. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:50.440 Yeah, that's right, and we should mention that contract was 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.200 for a dollar each so they they clearly were doing 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.440 this to make a statement and not to make a 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.200 ton of money, right, But Philip Morris, Yeah, they stepped 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.640 in because they there was a recent federal ban on 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:03.960 advertising on TV and radio for cigarettes, and so they said, 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:05.600 we got to get our name out there somewhere. So 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:08.760 let's call this the you know, we've got these Virginia 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.920 Slims with its quasi feminist message. You've come a long way, baby. 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:14.520 That was our ad slogan for a long. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:15.200 Time, long time. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.960 And tennis, you know, the Original Nine is what they 0:15:18.960 --> 0:15:21.320 were called, those tennis players that went along or the 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:23.160 eight that went along with Billy jen King and said 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.760 they're like, yeah, I mean, we're athletes. It's a little 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:28.680 weird to have a cigarette sponsor, but we need a sponsor, 0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:31.720 so we'll take it. And that tournament went over really well, 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.600 and it was so successful that they said, hey, why 0:15:34.600 --> 0:15:36.560 don't we start our own circuit, and they had the 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.000 Virginia Slim Circuit. There were eight more tournaments that they 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:45.560 sponsored and the original nine. You know, they initially did 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:50.360 follow through with their threat to like ban them. The USLTA, Yeah, 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.840 the USLTA at the time, but they said, oh, actually 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.880 they're doing so well over there, We're in trouble now, 0:15:56.920 --> 0:15:59.960 so we need to join forces. And they gave up 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.000 and they merged with the Virginia Slim Events. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:08.040 Yeah, and I'm not usually one to defend tobacco producers, 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:12.560 but I saw a PBS I think American Master's clip 0:16:12.960 --> 0:16:16.760 that was interviewing some of the original nine and they 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:20.120 were like, Virginia Slims showed up, like they knew how 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:22.880 to market, they knew how to get buzz. They put 0:16:22.920 --> 0:16:26.280 a ton of money behind advertising and like they this 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.880 was not like a just a whatever thing to them. 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.160 They were actually a really great sponsor for this. So yeah, 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:36.120 they yes, these nine women, and I think eventually more joined. 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.280 They were like, if you won't include us, we're just 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.360 gonna go create our own thing. Like they worked at 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:46.120 it like that and it actually paid off in aces. 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.120 Yeah for sure. Hey you want to take. 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.840 A break, Hey, yeah. 0:16:52.680 --> 0:17:21.520 All right, we'll be back right after this. All right, 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:24.200 So where we left off, the original nine went off 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:29.000 and formed their own Virginia Slim circuit. They were, you know, 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.640 endangered the USLTA such that they partnered with them eventually, 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:36.800 but money started flowing in a little bit. Nineteen seventy one, 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.240 Billy Jean King was the first female athlete of any 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.560 sport at all to make more than one hundred thousand dollars, 0:17:43.520 --> 0:17:47.080 a lot of money, and nineteen seventy one dollars still 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.960 a lot less than her peers on the male side 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.959 of the equation. And so she was still, you know, 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:54.920 banging that drum. She wasn't like, all right, our work 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:59.040 is done. And in nineteen seventy three, before Wimbledon that year, 0:17:59.680 --> 0:18:02.159 she got together in London where Wimledon is in a 0:18:02.200 --> 0:18:04.399 hotel room with sixty three I guess it was probably 0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:09.240 a large meeting room, Yeah, sixty three other women tennis players, 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.240 and they said, all right, we're doing this today. We're 0:18:13.240 --> 0:18:16.520 going to form the WTA, the Women's Tennis Association. We're 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.600 gonna have an actual union in place where we can, 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:22.960 you know, do what unions do and stick up for ourselves. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.600 Yes, they threatened to boycott, like pretty much immediately after 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.399 they formed the WTA. They said that they were going 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.119 to boycott the US Open if we don't get equal 0:18:33.160 --> 0:18:37.000 prize money for women and men. And I believe that 0:18:37.160 --> 0:18:40.960 was successful. They got the US Open to agree and 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:43.840 it was this is like things are moving along for 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:48.680 women's equality in tennis at this time. Right, So it's 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:52.640 a huge focus of conversation with tennis. 0:18:52.920 --> 0:18:55.399 Yeah, I mean it was all over the media everywhere 0:18:55.480 --> 0:18:58.400 you looked. It was about sort of equal pay, equal rights. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:00.920 And that was in the regular world, and all of 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:02.600 a sudden it was now like in the sports world 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:03.160 in a big way. 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:04.000 Well, put. 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.280 So now we can talk a little bit about our 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:10.760 our I'm gonna put it in scare quotes, our villain, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.960 mister Bobby Riggs, who was I'll tell you what man 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:18.119 I mean, if you it is very Andy kaufmanesque. If 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.240 you watch interviews with this guy. If he's nothing, he 0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:22.119 is entertaining. 0:19:22.760 --> 0:19:27.239 For sure. He was a true great tennis player at 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:29.679 one time, shortly after World War Two. I think he 0:19:29.720 --> 0:19:32.600 was the number one men's player in nineteen forty six 0:19:32.720 --> 0:19:36.240 and nineteen forty seven, and not just from like December 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.480 to January like both of those years. 0:19:38.720 --> 0:19:38.960 Right. 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:43.600 Yeah, So he had, you know, the goods to back 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:47.480 up like this. It wasn't just some dude who had 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.920 a tennis racket. But after the late forties, he essentially 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:57.719 like left the tour and he started hustling and taking 0:19:57.840 --> 0:20:01.119 bets from essentially anybody who who would play him in 0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:07.800 tennis pool. I think you saw a sixty minutes clip 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:12.280 where he was gambling on throwing cards into a waste basket, 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.680 like he would bet on anything. There was a quote 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:19.440 on that sixty minutes clip where he said he likes 0:20:19.440 --> 0:20:21.040 to play for big money. If he can't play for 0:20:21.080 --> 0:20:23.080 big money, he'll play for small money. If I can't 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:24.920 play for small money, I won't get out of bed 0:20:24.960 --> 0:20:28.400 that day. Like that's just what that guy did. He gambled, 0:20:28.400 --> 0:20:31.360 he hustled. Andy was known as a loud mouth too, 0:20:31.560 --> 0:20:36.040 but he also seems to be fairly loved. Essentially, he 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:37.880 was like one of those people that you just kind 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.840 of you couldn't help, but like even though yeah he 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.680 was allowed mouth and trying to get you to bet 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:43.480 some money. 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:46.359 Yeah, he was a troll. Livia called him a pre 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.840 internet troll, and that's exactly what he was. It seemed 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.119 like a bit of an act and a bit of 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.320 a stick to get attention. Like we said, but he 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:57.600 would say things, you know, a woman's place is in 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:00.840 the kitchen, in the bedroom, and not necessarily in that order. 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.520 Or women played twenty five percent as good as men, 0:21:03.920 --> 0:21:05.800 so they should get twenty five percent of the money 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.600 men get. I was reading I think it was a 0:21:10.600 --> 0:21:14.280 oh was it Esquire or something, an article about him, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.399 and the whole idea of playing Billy Jean King was 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:19.720 birth when I think a reporter was just talking to 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.280 him about you know, can men beat women? Or who 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:25.920 could beat Billy Jean King and tennis and he said, 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.920 I think any guy in the top one hundred could 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:31.040 beat Billy Jean King. And he went, in fact, I 0:21:31.040 --> 0:21:33.120 think I could beat her. And that's sort of when 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:36.679 he seemed to hatch this idea for publicity and money. 0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:38.679 Yeah, he was like, oh, but there's good. 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:41.199