1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to Ruthie's Table four, a production of iHeartRadio and 2 00:00:03,920 --> 00:00:05,400 Speaker 1: Adami's Studios. 3 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 2: When I phoned Frank Gary to ask him to do 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: this podcast, he immediately said yes. For years, every time 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: a new Frank Gary building opened, Richard, my husband and 6 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,480 Speaker 2: I would make a pilgrimage to visit the Disney Center 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, the Louis Vreton Foundation in Paris, the 8 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 2: Guggenheim in Bilbao, and Moore. But one summer in two 9 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 2: thousand and eight, a spectacular Gary building came up to 10 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:39,840 Speaker 2: us in Hyde Park, just ten minutes from our house. 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: It was a Serpentine pavilion, a temporary structure designed with 12 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: his son Sammy. For those few months, we met friends 13 00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 2: there almost daily, watching the sun set, listening to people 14 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 2: play music, eating and drinking. This brave and beautiful structure 15 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 2: made Harde Park a better park and London a better city. Today, 16 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 2: I've made a pilgrimage on my own from London to 17 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: Los Angeles, not to see a new Frank Cary building, 18 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 2: but to see my much loved close friend Frank. 19 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: Six slices of presciutto or pancetta. I really like that 20 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: one pheasant plucked and clean. Americans don't have. 21 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: No, we don't have game. 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: They don't have pheasants Canada, but does Canada. But it's 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: a long time ago. I was in Canada. Half a 24 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: cup of olive oil. I like that. Three garlic cloves peels, yes, 25 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 1: I'm still in. Three fresh rosemary sprigs, great, five fresh 26 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: sage leaves. Great. Half a bottle of Josephine doressan Va. 27 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: It's wine. 28 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: It's a fourty five sweet wine, rather like Marsala. 29 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: Uh huh. 30 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: So you could use Marsala as well. But I love 31 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: the name Josephine door Go wine. 32 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,359 Speaker 1: Okay, I like the name too. One hundred and seventy 33 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: five millimeter chicken stock, one hundred and twenty five milli 34 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: liters of heavy cream. Place the prescudo or pancetta slices 35 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: over the pheasant and tie on with a string. Heat 36 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:29,239 Speaker 1: the olive oil in a saucepan and brown the pheasant 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,520 Speaker 1: on all sides. Add the garlic and herbs. Cook over 38 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:38,080 Speaker 1: a medium heat for about forty minutes. Adding the wine 39 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 1: and stock in stages. You do not want to boil 40 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: the bird, but braize it in the liquid. Remove the 41 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: bird and keep warm. Add the cream, lettuce, simmer, and 42 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: then season, pour the juices over the pheasant and serve. Yum, yum. 43 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: It's good, isn't it. 44 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 1: I'm shocked you didn't bring me some. 45 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 2: I know it's not the right season. 46 00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: Thereas I would go with this interview is. 47 00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:06,720 Speaker 2: Can you imagine me getting into customs and I've. 48 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 1: Got me It would make the interview. We could do that. 49 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:11,119 Speaker 1: We can do a replay. 50 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 2: Okay, we'll do it. Did you ever do the cooking? 51 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: I cook mots of brye? 52 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 2: How do you? What is that? 53 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: On Sunday mornings and I have lots of brye bake 54 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: offs with people. Mats of brye is unleavened bread that 55 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: the Jews crossed the desert with Moses a long time ago, 56 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 1: and it's used for Passover. It's used mostly for Passover. 57 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 1: It's unleaven bread for Passover. I break it up underwater 58 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: and get it sort of moist, I salted and stuff, 59 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: and I take a bunch of eggs and I beat 60 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: them up up and put them all over the manzabrie 61 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: and it absorbs the egg stuff and then I fry him. 62 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 1: That's called matzabrie. Okay, So I grew up with that. 63 00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, what did you grow up? But tell me first, 64 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: start from the beginning. 65 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 1: Where were you born Toronto? 66 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 2: And where were your parents born? 67 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:26,679 Speaker 1: My mother Poland, my father New York and his father 68 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: and mother his father Russia. 69 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 2: Russia, Poland, Yeah. 70 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: Pince, I think my mother luds lodz. 71 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, loves And what was their story? 72 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: They came in nineteen thirteen. I think there was a 73 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: pogram in Poland. I found out later that the Jews 74 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: were being rounded up and beaten up. And my grandfather, 75 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: who delivered coal, he had a wagon. I went to 76 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: lunch and saw where the rail tracks were and where 77 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: he was, and when did you go? I was invited 78 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: to do a film festival and called the Camarage Film 79 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: Festival in Poland, and I went with David Lynch. David 80 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 1: Lynch and I went to Poland. I loved the people. 81 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: And I went to the city hall there and they 82 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,559 Speaker 1: asked David and I to sign our names on the wall, 83 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: and I wrote, my grandfather left in nineteen thirteen. If 84 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: he hadn't left, I wouldn't be here. I was immediately 85 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 1: called by the mayor's office and they became very solicitous. 86 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: They found all my grandparents' families, they all of a 87 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: sudden became like to show me they really loved the 88 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: Jews and blah blah blah, which was a bunch of bullshit, 89 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: I guess. So I did get a pretty deep and 90 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:09,000 Speaker 1: I found out my grandmother actually ran a foundry. There 91 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: was folklore about it when I was growing up, but 92 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 1: it was true. 93 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: The grandmother did. 94 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 1: She ran a foundry in Poland. They came across on 95 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: a Dutch ship that got stalled mid ocean, which was 96 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: the reason my mother would never cross a bridge in 97 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: a car. She had a phobia for so she would 98 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: get out of the car and walk across the bridge 99 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 1: and meet us on the other side because of this 100 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 1: experience as a I guess she was a nine year 101 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: old or six year old, I don't remember, but obviously 102 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: they got here. 103 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they got to where did they learn to Canada? 104 00:06:54,400 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: Right? And they landed in Toronto. My grandfather got a 105 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 1: horse and buggy. He was delivering bread, I think, and stuff. 106 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,600 Speaker 1: They lived in a little house, tiny house that just 107 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: got torn down. 108 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 2: Did it feel like they were a very Jewish community within. 109 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: The Yeah, it was a Jewish community. My grandfather had 110 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: got went on to have a hardware store, which I 111 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,680 Speaker 1: worked in as a kid with him, And he's the 112 00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: one that got me to read Talmud. And he wasn't religious. 113 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: It was interesting. He was the head of his little 114 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: congregation because he took the He was a business guy 115 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: and so he managed the money for them. But he 116 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: read Talmud. To me, that was interesting. You know. Talmud 117 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 1: starts with the word why. Yeah, curiosity, and curiosity is 118 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: the theater for all all of our work, right, all 119 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 1: creativity is. 120 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 2: Somebody always asked me what I look for in a 121 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: new chef or anyone I've taken on at the River Cafe, 122 00:07:56,960 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: and I always say curiosity. 123 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, right, And were interested? 124 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: And so you were You went to school every day. 125 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 1: And you know you So we were in Toronto. I 126 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: went to I went to Blue Collegiate until forty seven 127 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: and then we but in between my family moved to Timmins, Ontario, 128 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: five hundred miles north of Toronto, and I lived there 129 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: from eight years old to thirteen years old. 130 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: So you've sort of set up a picture of what 131 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 2: where you were if you were to kind of close 132 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 2: your eyes and remember the smells of your mother's kitchen 133 00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: or the food in her kitchen. Can you visualize it? 134 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,840 Speaker 2: What was it a big room? Was it a small kitchen? 135 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was, it was a small kitchen. It wasn't 136 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 1: She wasn't a great cook. Yeah. My grandmother made on 137 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: the cook stove, made all the to get filled fish. 138 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: And I used to watch. That's why everybody says I 139 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 1: do fish sculptures because I used to go pick up 140 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,480 Speaker 1: the live fish and put it in the bathtub, and 141 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: then at night I would I was as a kid. 142 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: I would play with the fish in the bathtub and 143 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 1: then the next day it was gone. 144 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 2: Did you ever watch them kill the. 145 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: No, I didn't know what happened. 146 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 2: I was at home. 147 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,320 Speaker 1: I finally figured it out. 148 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,520 Speaker 2: But do you think there was? Because that is interesting 149 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 2: about why the fish? Because when did the image of 150 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: the fish begin? 151 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: You know, that's a whole other story. Do you want 152 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: me to get into it that the fish? 153 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 2: Yes? 154 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: You know. I was started practicing sixty four with my 155 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: own I'd worked on shopping centers with groon and stuff 156 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: like that. I got some houses to do. I did 157 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 1: some small buildings. Uh. And I got to know Peter 158 00:09:55,559 --> 00:10:05,440 Speaker 1: Eisman and your husband and Norman Foster and Michael Graves 159 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: and Charlie Moore, and I wasn't a big force in architecture, 160 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: but I was. They sort of paid attention. I was 161 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: doing enough stuff they paid attention. From the very beginning, 162 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: I hung out with the artists because I always thought 163 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: of architecture as an art and I thought they were 164 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: coming around to my buildings and looking at my stuff 165 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: and inviting me for dinner. 166 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:40,479 Speaker 3: And the artists, the artists in la ed Ed Moses, Billy, Albankston, 167 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,560 Speaker 3: John Alton, Peter Alexander, a lot of people, you know, 168 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 3: became close friends. 169 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 1: And I would go to their shows and they would 170 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 1: come to my At a point, Arthur Drexler do you 171 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: remember who that is? He was the architecture guy at 172 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: MoMA did a show called Bose Art and it was 173 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: at sixty R sixty. I think everybody went to that show. 174 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: I went to it. It was a knockout. The Bose 175 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: Art buildings, the models they showed were so seductive, it 176 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:26,880 Speaker 1: was incredible everybody. It was after that show that Philip 177 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,480 Speaker 1: put the top on at and t Bright as a 178 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 1: director at that show, and Graves came out and Stern 179 00:11:34,760 --> 00:11:38,599 Speaker 1: came out and they all okay, so postmodernism became the 180 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: siren song. And I remember I was at a and 181 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't buy it. I wasn't buying it, but I 182 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: thought there was more to life than copying the past. 183 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: So I was at a conference with a lot of 184 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:00,440 Speaker 1: those guys and I can't remember where, and when my 185 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: turn came to talk, which I never prepared talks, I 186 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: would get up and just do what I'll say what 187 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,679 Speaker 1: was on my mind. I looked at them and said, 188 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: what the hell is there only one way to go backwards? 189 00:12:16,040 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: Can't do isn't there something new? Isn't there any hope 190 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:26,679 Speaker 1: for the future. I forget what and I said, damn it. 191 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: If you got to go back, I mean you can 192 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: go back three hundred million years before man to fish, 193 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: I said, fish are very architectural and their movement is 194 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: beautiful and they suggest movement, and it goes with cars 195 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: and trains and planes and stuff. So just copy that. 196 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: I had no idea why I said that. After that, 197 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: I started to draw fish on all my little drawings. 198 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: I've got top stuff all around with fishy. They're on 199 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: those drawings too, So I started playing with it. I 200 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: was doing that project with Klaus Oldenburg in Venicia. The 201 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 1: sponsors were a fashion house in Florence asked me to 202 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: do a fish sculpture for their show, and so I 203 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,319 Speaker 1: went to China Chita and did a drawing and they 204 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: made it. I never saw it in Tourno. They were 205 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:35,680 Speaker 1: just getting ready to open the Costello de Rivoli as 206 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: a museum and they had their first show and they 207 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: invited me to be in the first show, and so 208 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: they gave me two galleries. In one gallery, I put 209 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: all my models and they said they had something for 210 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: the other gallery. They didn't tell me what I walk 211 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: in the other gallery was this wooden fish made for 212 00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 1: the fashion show. It's the biggest piece of kitsch I've 213 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 1: ever seen. It was so embarrassing. I stood beside it 214 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: was just freaked out that they were making this part 215 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: of my show. And standing beside me was a guy 216 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: from the Stedliic Museum who had spoken ill of my 217 00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:19,280 Speaker 1: work many times before. He's standing beside me and he said, 218 00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: how'd you do that? And I said what do you mean? 219 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: He said, how'd you do it? I want to talk 220 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: to you. Then I realized what he was talking about. 221 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: The thing looked like it was moving, This piece of 222 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 1: egregious kitch had this the movement that a fish has. 223 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: And how they had made it in that way. 224 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: They didn't know, they didn't know. 225 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: It was just an accident. 226 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 1: This guy said, that's brilliant. How did you do that? 227 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: I said, it's pure, you know, I said, I told him, well, 228 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: I was interested in the fish because of movement. 229 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,920 Speaker 2: So what do you think that relates to the carp 230 00:14:58,960 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 2: in the bathtub? 231 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: I don't know. 232 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 2: Maybe maybe that psychiatrist that image of the car, but 233 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 2: I think that the. 234 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 1: Next thing I did was a show at the walker 235 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: and I cut the tail off the fish, the head 236 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,120 Speaker 1: off the fish, and I made an abstract and it's 237 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: still moved, it still had the sense of movement. And 238 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: that's when I got hooked, hooked on the shape shaping 239 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: and using that to express, to express an. 240 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,960 Speaker 2: Yeh, the image of So that I think that. 241 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: Experience made made Bill bow. I'd love the food, and. 242 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 2: Let's talk about that because San Sebastian, which is right 243 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 2: next to Bilbao, is a mecca for food. People go there. 244 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,760 Speaker 2: The chefs are really interesting. So what when you say 245 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 2: you love the food of Bilbao, tell me about it. 246 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: It's the cod fish? 247 00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 2: What do they call it, Yeah, the bacola baccala bacala. 248 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: Yes, you know, don't you? You're a cook anyway, Bachola. 249 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: I love bacchoala and I loved the wine. 250 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, you would go for these site meetings. And did 251 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: you spend a. 252 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: Long time there? Bill Bell reawakened my food? Whatever food 253 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: I was happened there because that's what we did. We 254 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 1: went out to restaurants with them. The wine was special because. 255 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,240 Speaker 2: Life that you're describing, working all day, whether you're Cassavettis 256 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:53,920 Speaker 2: your friend, or actors or writers or artists in their studios, 257 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: there was a real momentum to go out to eat 258 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: at the end of the day because the work was 259 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 2: solitary and so was that true here as well? Did 260 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 2: you go out to restaurants all the time? 261 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: And yeah, with Benny Gazar we used to go to 262 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,159 Speaker 1: Italian restaurants. So we had a lot of pasta and 263 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: a lot of red wine. 264 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 2: And there was one that somebody told me there was 265 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 2: one in like a train. 266 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: Carriage, the Pacific Dining car. Is it still there downtown? 267 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: I think it's still there. It was in my neighborhood. 268 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: So we used to go there because it was around 269 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: the corner from where we lived, and you could. You 270 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: didn't need a reservation, you just walk in. Yeah, and 271 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: it was never filled. And I mean I used to 272 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: see Spieler, he used to be there, and a lot 273 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: of Hollywood people, but they would come at six in 274 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,399 Speaker 1: the morning for early breakfast when nobody was there, or 275 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 1: real late at night. 276 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,080 Speaker 2: I think about a restaurant in a city, is that 277 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,439 Speaker 2: as we found out when restaurants were closed in London, 278 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 2: is that they do had a social life to the 279 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 2: city that you can go there and see people that 280 00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 2: you didn't know were going to be there. There's a 281 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,480 Speaker 2: spontaneity about meeting a friend or sitting there. 282 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 1: The Pacific Dining Car was more private. People didn't go 283 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: there to meet other people. It was the booths were 284 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: spread apart and it was never filled. 285 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 2: So you as a kid, did you ever go out 286 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 2: to a restaurant when you were a child. 287 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: Not very much. They couldn't afford to go out. Yeah. 288 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: I do remember going to restaurants with my father in 289 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: Toronto that had signs no Jews allowed. No. I do 290 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: remember that really, And he always knew the owner because 291 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: he was a gregarious guy. So we would go in anyway, 292 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 1: so he would. 293 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 2: He would actually be friends with an owner who actually 294 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:55,680 Speaker 2: had a sign on his door. 295 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: Saying he wasn't friendly with him, but he had he 296 00:18:58,359 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: had some kind of business relationship. 297 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 2: Was your father alive to understand your success? 298 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 1: He died before my success. Now my mother did, did. 299 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 2: She bask in the in the glow of your success? 300 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: She tried. But when I when she died, I found 301 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: a box with every article. Yeah, I didn't know she 302 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:30,199 Speaker 1: was doing that, and it was from way back. But 303 00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: she always used to compare me to other people's kids, 304 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 1: you know, like Hilda's son does. Why can't you be 305 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: more like that? So I got it. I had a 306 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: bad time. 307 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 2: I think you had a bad time, and they had 308 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 2: a bad time leaving your country and having a ship 309 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 2: sold in the middle of the ocean and arriving in 310 00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 2: a city that you knew no one. And I mean 311 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: when when you left your home? And where did you 312 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: go to architecture school? 313 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: USC? 314 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 2: So you came to California. 315 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: So my father lost everything, had a heart attack, had 316 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:20,399 Speaker 1: to leave leave Toronto. He was penniless. His brother brought 317 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:25,359 Speaker 1: him to California. My mother came, my sister came. We 318 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: lived in a two rooms the size of this in 319 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: an old building downtown. 320 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 2: Sisters and brothers? Did you have sisters and brothers? 321 00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: Sister? Yeah, I got a job as a truck driver. 322 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:42,040 Speaker 1: My father got a job as a truck caver. I 323 00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: delivered breakfast, nooks and furniture. He was a soda pop delivery. 324 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: My mother got a job in the Broadway, Hollywood, in 325 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,080 Speaker 1: the candy department, and she stayed there all the way 326 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: to the end. For her she in the Broadway, she 327 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:05,320 Speaker 1: ended up in the decorating department, and she was selling 328 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: draperies to Hollywood people. 329 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 2: So would she cooked? Would she come home and cook 330 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 2: for you? 331 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: Do you remember sitting very much? 332 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 2: Would sitting down to a meal in your house? 333 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: I would probably remember, but I can't. I don't remember 334 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:20,159 Speaker 1: that meals. 335 00:21:20,200 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 2: Family meals did not exciting. Now everybody talks about you 336 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,400 Speaker 2: know how sad it is now that we don't all 337 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 2: gather around the table every night. But for some people, 338 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:37,160 Speaker 2: quite a few people, it was quite very and stressful 339 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,400 Speaker 2: to have to sit around a table with your family. 340 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 2: That's what it was for you? Was it because he. 341 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:47,879 Speaker 1: Just had a temper and you never knew couldn't control it? 342 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,400 Speaker 1: Took it out on me because he saw me as 343 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: not understanding business. I was. I was the kind of 344 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:04,160 Speaker 1: artsy type, so he didn't understand that. And my mother 345 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: also supported that that I wasn't really interested in I 346 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: mean I was interested in going to the symphony and 347 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,160 Speaker 1: going to our galleries, but not in things that would 348 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: make a living. 349 00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 2: And so meal times were a kind of tyranny, were 350 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: they of? It was difficult, And then when you went 351 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 2: to architecture school and college, you kind offended for yourself. 352 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: And yeah, then I got married. 353 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, became domestic life. 354 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 1: That that was domestic life kind of Yeah. Yeah, well 355 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,160 Speaker 1: this was the first marriage before birth. 356 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: When you designed the canteen, the cafeteria forcaill New House, 357 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 2: did that make you think more about food or did 358 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 2: was that about space? Was that where people could stop 359 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:53,360 Speaker 2: working in the magazines and have a meal? 360 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:56,440 Speaker 1: I did think about food because we did the cafeteria 361 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: park and we had to set up where you go 362 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: through the line, and yeah, that's. 363 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: A radical cantem. I mean there's no other space like 364 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 2: that to have as a place to eat when you're 365 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 2: working all day. It was the hottest ticket in New York. 366 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 2: It was invited to that, Yeah, to lunch. Everybody was 367 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: trying to figure out how. 368 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,399 Speaker 1: They were I didn't know. 369 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,479 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, huge. Everybody wanted to go there, you know. 370 00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:23,320 Speaker 2: I remember going with Victoria, took me and people friends 371 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 2: of mine called friends of theirs. 372 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: Who they remodeled it. They've totally. 373 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 2: What was Sife as a client? Was he the client? 374 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:33,199 Speaker 1: He was the client? 375 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,560 Speaker 2: Did he know what he wanted? 376 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: Really did? Yeah? I took him to the best thing 377 00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: I did with Sai is I took him to Japan 378 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: for a week with Greg Wallace, who as my partner, 379 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 1: who had spent a lot of his life in Japan. 380 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:57,120 Speaker 1: So Greg knew Japan really fantastic. And Victoria and Ci 381 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: and Bert and I and Greg spent a week together 382 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: and so I ended up in the same little cafe 383 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: with typical Japanese pork noodles or something, and that's what 384 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: he ordered every day, and he wanted to go back 385 00:24:13,040 --> 00:24:21,480 Speaker 1: to the same restaurant everything. No. Si. Months before he died, 386 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: I was with him in Paris for the opening of 387 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,439 Speaker 1: the Louisy Tom building. He called me over he was 388 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: sitting there kind of not totally with it, and he said, Frank, 389 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,080 Speaker 1: the trip he took me on to Japan. I think 390 00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to cry, he said, was one of the 391 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: best ever. It was so sweet. What he's in? 392 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 2: Do you like sugar? Do you like sweet food? 393 00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:57,480 Speaker 1: Oh? Boy, oh boy? 394 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: What's your too sweet? 395 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,239 Speaker 1: My friend Stephanie Barron makes the greatest lemon drops and 396 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: I invite her to go sailing, specifically because she brings 397 00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: the lemon drums. 398 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 2: Oh so sailing. 399 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, so sailing. Now you're talking. 400 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 2: And when you're on the boat. Do you do you eat? 401 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: Do you have any we order sandwiches or something? 402 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: Yeah? 403 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:22,919 Speaker 1: And drink wine? 404 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: Are you interested in the wine? 405 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? I got a lot of it, but I don't. 406 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,679 Speaker 1: One of my clients is the Southern wine spirits owner 407 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: from from from Vegas, and I did his little building 408 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 1: in Vegas, and so he sends us all the wine 409 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,439 Speaker 1: and so I mean, I mean I get to like 410 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 1: some of it. I picked stuff that I like him 411 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 1: and Berta likes some of it. But we're not wins. 412 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:58,040 Speaker 1: Tequila has We've been drinking tequila a little bit, and 413 00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:59,800 Speaker 1: so we do tequila for dinner. 414 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: And what are the sweets apart from the lemon drops? 415 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 2: Do you like chocolate? Frank? 416 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, me too. 417 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,399 Speaker 2: Is there something that when you're feeling kind of low 418 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 2: or kind of worried that you might reach for in 419 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 2: terms of food? But is there something that you would 420 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 2: say this, there's a kind of sense of comfort in some. 421 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 1: P I guess just plain pasta pasta. 422 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you know? I asked this question to everybody. 423 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,800 Speaker 1: And they always end up with us. 424 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 2: Everybody loves a pasta. Yeah, I think it is. 425 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:33,320 Speaker 1: Well, it's you don't have to eat a lot of it, 426 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: and it's kind of filling. Yeah, and you can drink 427 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: some wine with it. 428 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 429 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 1: And then there's some such so many varieties of pasta 430 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: that that gets exciting, you know. But and when you 431 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: go to a restaurant, an Italian restaurant, the varieties are incredible. 432 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 1: So I like to try. 433 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 2: Let's go the next time I'm here. Are you going 434 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 2: to restaurants? 435 00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 1: Are you avoiding them a little? I'm going to come 436 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: to the River Cafe. 437 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Frank Garry, you are invited to the River Cafe. Invited. 438 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:09,879 Speaker 2: That means you don't have to pay anything. And by 439 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 2: the way, jus are allowed. 440 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's terrible. Well, I will. 441 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 2: Become And also, you know, food is a pleasure, Yeah, 442 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 2: it is. It's so good and it's so great thing 443 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 2: to give yourself and then just eat it and have deliciously. 444 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: Okay. So in the morning for breakfast, I make I 445 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: take toast and I fry an egg and I put 446 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,240 Speaker 1: it on the toast. That's good and that's what I have. 447 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 2: If the egg is good and the toast is good, 448 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,080 Speaker 2: and the butter is good and it's hot, then that's 449 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: a delicious meal. But you need to put a love 450 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,160 Speaker 2: salt and pepper on it, and you need to eat 451 00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 2: it with pleasure. 452 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:51,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. 453 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 2: I know. Food is you know, it's important. And artists 454 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: and architects and designer is everyone's. 455 00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: Part of right. I do make so eggs with coming out. 456 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:05,760 Speaker 2: Okay, now it's coming out. 457 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,480 Speaker 1: It's not just the lots. I do both. Okay, that's 458 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: my specialty. 459 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: All right, I'm coming all right, thank you. Frank. What's 460 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 2: frank Berry ice cream? 461 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: Frank Berry ice Cream company. 462 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 2: Named an ice cream? Is that right after you? Did 463 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 2: you know that? 464 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:26,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, he saw something like that. 465 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 2: I think having an ice cream named after you was 466 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 2: pretty cool. I say, you know, I can have a 467 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: building named after you, or. 468 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: You know, snickerdoodle like it. 469 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 2: Frank Cary well, well, maybe we'll have to go get one. 470 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 2: I'm so excited to announce that we have a new book. 471 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,440 Speaker 2: Squeeze Me has forty seven delicious lemon recipes from the 472 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: River Cafe, Beautiful full art by Ed Bouchet and words 473 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 2: by Heather Eyes. 474 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: Pre Order now