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Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to Normally. I'm Carol Markowitz. I'm

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Speaker 1: here with Mary Catherine Ham. We recorded an episode that

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Speaker 1: you're about to hear and then learn the shocking news

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Speaker 1: that Charlie Kirk had been murdered in Utah, and we

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Speaker 1: felt like we had to add a segment about that

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Speaker 1: and talk about it and not let the episode just

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Speaker 1: stand on its own because it's a heartbreaking day for us,

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Speaker 1: and we felt like we needed to share with you all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's early in this news cycle, but the losses

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Speaker 2: already deeply felt. I did not know Charlie super well,

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Speaker 2: but I have known him since he was young because

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Speaker 2: he's been making an impact since he was very young,

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Speaker 2: and we worked together in those early days of turning point.

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Speaker 2: He was doing the thing that you and I love, yeah,

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Speaker 2: which is to engage on issues that are important to us.

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Speaker 2: You and I both You grew up in New York.

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Durham, North Carolina. We grew up

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Speaker 2: in liberal communities where we were happy to have friends

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Speaker 2: who we could go back and forth with. And the

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Speaker 2: thing that struck me today was and the Utah governor,

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Speaker 2: even though we don't know a ton and I think

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Speaker 2: we can make some assumptions with the Utah governor.

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Speaker 3: Was like he was.

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Speaker 2: Assassinated while debating on a college campus.

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Speaker 3: And that.

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Speaker 2: Is the thing I admired about Charlie was watching him

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Speaker 2: go out and civilly and energetically with a take on

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Speaker 2: whoever came to him on a college campus. He was

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Speaker 2: what college used to be. But you had to import

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Speaker 2: him to college to make it work now because they

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Speaker 2: don't do that anymore. And the idea that someone would

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Speaker 2: target him for that, and that people think too many

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Speaker 2: people think that's warranted is crushing. It's crushing, it really is.

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Speaker 1: I feel just devastated, and I've just been at a

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Speaker 1: loss for words, breaking down crying at different points. He

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Speaker 1: was such a good person. And you know, the thing is,

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Speaker 1: you're right. I love an argument, I love debating, I

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Speaker 1: love all of that. But when he went into the

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Speaker 1: lions Den all the time, sometimes I thought, why, you know,

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Speaker 1: why mind are you going to change?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: And the thing is he was changing minds, he was growing,

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Speaker 1: he his organization was growing. They had done some incredible

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Speaker 1: work in the last year. And it's such a loss,

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Speaker 1: and I feel just.

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Speaker 4: For his family.

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Speaker 1: Just this it's senseless it's really senseless. He was killed

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Speaker 1: for wanting to talk to the other side, for taking

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Speaker 1: the chance and trying to talk to the other side.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really it's dark. It makes me worried

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Speaker 2: about the future. Yeah, you know, there are two Greg Lukianov,

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Speaker 2: who is with Fire, the Free speech organization, I'm going

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Speaker 2: to borrow his words because he said what we want

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Speaker 2: is maximum tolerance of other viewpoints and zero tolerance of violence,

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Speaker 2: and particularly on college campuses, over the last decades, we've

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Speaker 2: reversed that. Far too often it is minimal tolerance of

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Speaker 2: other viewpoints and far too much tolerance of violence, which

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Speaker 2: then cascades. And then, by the way, when you tell

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Speaker 2: people that words are violence, yeah, they want to retaliate

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Speaker 2: with violence. So like, there are people and I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to name check people or go through the receipts

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Speaker 2: because it's deeply depressing, But there are too many people

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Speaker 2: who believe that Charlie Kirk's words were an existential threat

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Speaker 2: to them. That was never true. Because he was speaking,

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Speaker 2: he faced an existential threat. I mean, I'm obviously thinking

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Speaker 2: about his family quite a lot. He has two young kids.

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Speaker 2: I believe they are about one and four. His wife, Erica,

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Speaker 2: will have a very tough road.

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Speaker 3: Ahead of her.

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Speaker 2: And you know, they were people of faith and that

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Speaker 2: the promise is that God will be with them, and

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Speaker 2: God will be with his kids and with her as

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Speaker 2: they go through this, and that's real. But sometimes it

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Speaker 2: will feel impossible for that to be real, and it's hard.

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Speaker 2: It's hard for me to think about someone starting that

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Speaker 2: journey to have this be her life.

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Speaker 3: It's just there's so many things that are sad about it.

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Speaker 1: I loved how openly Charlie lived his faith, and so

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Speaker 1: if you're listening to this, I think let's just pray

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Speaker 1: for his family and pray for the country as we

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Speaker 1: move forward. Thank you for listening. Guys. We are back

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Speaker 1: on normally normal takes.

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Speaker 5: THEE heard.

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Speaker 2: I'm guys, happy and I'm my own markets.

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Speaker 1: How does you look going? My captain?

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Speaker 3: Good?

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Speaker 2: You know, hectic, trying to keep up with all the

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Speaker 2: new extracurriculars for the children.

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Speaker 3: I often take them on and then I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 3: I have to do this every week.

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Speaker 1: I went to back to school night last night for

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Speaker 1: my youngest son and like they were like, any, no,

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Speaker 1: continue signing the planner every night.

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Speaker 4: And I was like signing the planner every night. I

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Speaker 4: haven't even signed it once.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same girl saying I have a I have a

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Speaker 2: very type a child who if the planner needs to

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Speaker 2: get signed, she makes sure it's signed right outside of that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not happening.

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Speaker 4: That's the first child, or the second.

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Speaker 3: The second child a second.

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Speaker 2: I have to ask you if you share my maybe

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Speaker 2: semi problematic take, which is that when you get asked

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Speaker 2: to do something daily as a parent for one of

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Speaker 2: your children, one I don't like it, don't care for it,

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Speaker 2: don't put this on my plate. Let the homework show

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Speaker 2: that we did the home That not a plan we

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Speaker 2: need to sign that.

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Speaker 4: I saw the planner like you did the homework. Just

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Speaker 4: take it in to school and give it to the teacher.

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Speaker 2: But I have noticed a correlation, and that is that

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Speaker 2: people who give me daily work often are pre kids

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Speaker 2: in their life chapter and people who do not give

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Speaker 2: me daily work have several children. Because there's a different

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Speaker 2: understanding of what I'm capable of.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, No, I think that the teachers in

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Speaker 1: this case have kids, and I'm sure it is just

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Speaker 1: you know, policy of the school or whatever.

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Speaker 3: Is blown up by your teachers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't do stuff like this every day. And

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Speaker 1: plus my other two kids, this is the youngest child,

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Speaker 1: the older two are you know, I got this joke

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Speaker 1: from Modern Family, But they're completely self cleaning ovens.

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Speaker 4: Like I don't know what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: My oldest I haven't been involved in her school work

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Speaker 1: since she was like in first grade.

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Speaker 4: It's all been like on her own.

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Speaker 1: So now having it like chase this kid around, be like,

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Speaker 1: let me sign your planner.

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Speaker 3: No, I'm not a fan at it. We're in the

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Speaker 3: car every day, like, just give it to me while

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Speaker 3: I'm driving.

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Speaker 4: I don't say, I don't want to say. I'm just

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Speaker 4: like sign it for me.

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Speaker 3: But you know that's a life skill too.

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Speaker 2: Okay, all right, shall we to the news, which is,

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Speaker 2: as usual, more sad than our day to day lives. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we are still talking about the tragic murder of Arena Zarutska,

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Speaker 2: a twenty three year old Ukrainian immigrant who was writing

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Speaker 2: a Charlotte light Rail public transit system and was in

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Speaker 2: a totally unprovoked, insane interaction that is caught on tape,

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Speaker 2: stabbed to death by a man on the train who

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Speaker 2: we now know to be a four time, fourteen time,

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Speaker 2: arrested several time, felons several times, violent felon, and schizophrenic

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Speaker 2: man who was walking the streets and riding the train.

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Speaker 3: And the response to this has been enlightening.

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Speaker 4: Right, That's the thing this exposed so much.

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Speaker 1: This is why it's a two day story on normally,

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Speaker 1: because the conversation around it has been so.

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Speaker 4: Crazy that we have to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: I think the left is just grappling with what they

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Speaker 1: can say here, and what they are not saying is

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Speaker 1: we need to keep people in prison for longer, we

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Speaker 1: need to arrest more people, we need to contain this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing.

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Speaker 4: Instead, what they're saying.

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Speaker 1: Is a bunch of gibberish that doesn't apply to anything.

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Speaker 1: John Favreau, he's a Obama bro podcaster at pod Saves America,

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Speaker 1: founder of Crooked Media. He wrote this tweet where he

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Speaker 1: pretended to say, you know, Democrats to just admit that

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Speaker 1: some politicians have been way too lenient in releasing dangerous

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Speaker 1: criminals from.

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Speaker 4: Prison these last few years.

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Speaker 1: And he lists some crimes committed by people they let

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Speaker 1: out early, and of course all of those crimes were

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Speaker 1: committed by people let out by Donald Trump. These are

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Speaker 1: pardon recipients largely from January sixth, I think that, you know,

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Speaker 1: he thinks he's got a gotcha. I'm like, rearrest them

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Speaker 1: and throw away the key.

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Speaker 2: Like I know, so you know, so we both were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: the violent ones shouldn't be pardoned.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: Two, if you take this as a as a real point,

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Speaker 2: which it's not. It is a it's his gut reaction,

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Speaker 2: which is to watch the tragic public murder of a

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Speaker 2: young person and make a joke about January sixth. But

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Speaker 2: if you're to take it as a real point, and

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Speaker 2: by the way, I thought it was sincere at first,

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Speaker 2: and those like, oh, I guess we're not doing the

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Speaker 2: abundance thing on crime, but right it right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Do I think January sixth folks are in danger of

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Speaker 2: violent recidivism?

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Speaker 1: I do not.

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Speaker 3: I just don't.

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Speaker 2: I think it's different, material different. And the problem once

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Speaker 2: again is that if you say concerns about this are

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Speaker 2: out of bounds, racist, crazy, the domain of only people

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Speaker 2: who love every January sixth and everything that happened that day,

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Speaker 2: you don't make.

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Speaker 3: The concerns go away.

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Speaker 2: You just characterize the concerns and the right that shares

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Speaker 2: them as very reasonable exactly.

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Speaker 1: You know, on a previous episode, I said that the

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Speaker 1: most lib thing about me is that I think that

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Speaker 1: we should treat violent offenders and non violent offenders differently,

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Speaker 1: and I think that non violent offenders should get the

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Speaker 1: cushier prison and you know, should get different things.

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Speaker 4: But it turns out that's not even a lib thing anymore.

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Speaker 1: They don't they don't see a difference between violent defenders

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Speaker 1: and non violent offenders.

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Speaker 4: I get to be conservative.

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Speaker 2: Paraye Well and Charlie Cook characterized it well when it

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Speaker 2: comes to crime. I have been somebody who's very open

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Speaker 2: to criminal justice reform and thinks there can be an

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Speaker 2: excessive force.

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Speaker 3: Problem like that's it's a real exactly Okay.

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Speaker 2: Now I want to be honest about those statistics and

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Speaker 2: who it affects, and I do not.

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Speaker 3: I do not want to like.

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Speaker 2: Paint with a super broad brush and defund police for instance. Right,

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Speaker 2: But I'm squishy in that I want the Constitution applied

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Speaker 2: correctly to every person so that our system, our miracle

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Speaker 2: system of justice, which has its faults but is a

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Speaker 2: miracle in the history of humankind, can exist and treat

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Speaker 2: people fairly. Because I do think people get dragged into

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Speaker 2: the criminal justice system and their lives turned in a

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Speaker 2: bad direction when we could have, perhaps with non violent folks,

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Speaker 2: turned them in a in a better direction.

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Speaker 3: Okay, fine, this guy's not that.

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Speaker 2: This guy has not sent that a group of social

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Speaker 2: workers out and pick him up safely and every and.

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Speaker 3: Put him in a statement program, and everything's fine. It's

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Speaker 3: not real.

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Speaker 4: It's not And you know, Peter J.

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Speaker 1: Hassen points out that Favreau had defund police activists on

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Speaker 1: his podcast in twenty twenty. Clearly is not actually interested

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Speaker 1: in fighting any crime. He's just interested in making a

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Speaker 1: anti Donald Trump point. So you know, when he's looking

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Speaker 1: for the people that did this, it was you, dude,

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Speaker 1: it was you.

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Speaker 2: Well, I like, I just think the more that you

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Speaker 2: make flippant jokes about this or tell people that it's

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Speaker 2: statistically rare that this happens and they shouldn't have feelings

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Speaker 2: about it, one is it is statistically rare. And also

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Speaker 2: the randomness of it is very scary to people because

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Speaker 2: as you as you said, she's not really putting, she's

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Speaker 2: not involved in any circles that would put her in

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Speaker 2: this position.

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Speaker 3: She's no one, No one's anticipating this.

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Speaker 2: And then it also went viral that we I don't

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Speaker 2: want to watch the whole video, but it went viral. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there was certainly lag time in someone coming to her

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Speaker 2: aid at all, and people around her seemed disinterested to

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Speaker 2: an almost shocking degree, like I understand the guys in

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Speaker 2: the train and he still has a knife, so I Y, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but it does not take confronting him to look concerned

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Speaker 2: and hit nine.

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Speaker 3: One one on your phone exactly.

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Speaker 2: And later someone did come and try to like help

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Speaker 2: her and pressure on her. It's yeah, that video is

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Speaker 2: tough in so so so many ways, right, and.

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Speaker 1: Again the randomness of it, and you know, the it's

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Speaker 1: very it's a very rare occurrence.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's a very rare occurrence, but really not rare enough.

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Speaker 1: And you know, somebody tried to gotcha on us on

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Speaker 1: x when we posted our episode from a few days ago,

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Speaker 1: and they tweeted a link at us and they said,

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Speaker 1: you're covering this and it was a story of a

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Speaker 1: man sat behind a stranger on the bus, slit her

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Speaker 1: throat and unprovoked attack.

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Speaker 4: The man in this story is white.

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Speaker 1: I think the implication is that you and I are

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Speaker 1: not covering it because he's white. I hadn't heard about this,

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Speaker 1: and so, yeah, I think this story should be big too.

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Speaker 1: It happened in Tulsa in August. Absolutely, this is another

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Speaker 1: story where somebody.

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Speaker 4: Violent acted violent on public transport.

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Speaker 1: This person was also a fugitive from a justice warrant

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Speaker 1: from the state of Missouri, so already had a previous

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Speaker 1: interaction with the law.

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Speaker 4: Again, you're not going to get me in a gotcha.

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Speaker 4: I think this should be a big story too.

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Speaker 1: I think that somebody who has a warrant for their

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Speaker 1: arrest from Missouri.

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Speaker 3: Uh, off the streets. Yeah, should have been.

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Speaker 4: Off the streets. So nice try.

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Speaker 1: But I'm actually fully supportive in covering this story.

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Speaker 2: And there's another part of this too that in this

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Speaker 2: story would make it a national story if the media

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Speaker 2: wasn't disinterested in this narrative, and it is that there

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Speaker 2: is a visual element.

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Speaker 3: We both work in news in the Tulsa case.

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Speaker 2: To my knowledge, I could be wrong, but I just

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Speaker 2: looked it up and there's not a surveillance.

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Speaker 3: Video of this happening. That was like, maybe it's just withheld.

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Speaker 2: I understand that, but when something has a visual element

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Speaker 2: like that, it becomes.

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Speaker 3: A bigger story.

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Speaker 2: Because it is part of news packages and that is

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Speaker 2: how newsrooms work. So it is very noticeable when it

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Speaker 2: doesn't become a story when there is that visual element.

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Speaker 2: But I echo you on this Tulsa killing in which

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Speaker 2: these are these are quite analogous victims, and he should

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Speaker 2: not have been on transit. A couple of a lot

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Speaker 2: of other folks have chimed in and said, you know,

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Speaker 2: when I go in public transit, and I do it.

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Speaker 3: Too, I'm constantly scanning. I am, I am.

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Speaker 2: I am encountering very mentally ill people, sometimes scary, the

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Speaker 2: ones one with knitting needles one time who yelled many

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Speaker 2: many fwords sitting across from me, and I had to

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Speaker 2: move on the train. And it's like because she had

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Speaker 2: a weapon, and a lot of people are looking around

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Speaker 2: and saying to democrats and media, but I repeat myself,

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Speaker 2: it doesn't have to.

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Speaker 4: Be this way, It really doesn't.

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Speaker 3: Why do we have to accept this right?

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Speaker 1: I think part of why she was sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: in her phone and not paying attention is that she

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Speaker 1: expected that train to be safe, and I think you

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Speaker 1: and I don't have that expectation.

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Speaker 4: And that's a bad thing for us. I was thinking

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Speaker 4: about this I almost when I haven't. You know, I

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Speaker 4: live in South Florida.

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Speaker 1: Now I don't have a lot of opportunities for public transportation,

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Speaker 1: but when I did, I would always sit with my

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Speaker 1: back to the wall so nobody could be behind me.

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Speaker 1: I would sit, you know, in a seat where I

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Speaker 1: could see everything. Since I was a child in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: I learned defense mechanisms on public transportation, on how to

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Speaker 1: be safe. And that's sad and unfortunate, and it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have to be this way. And that's what people on

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Speaker 1: the right are saying, that we don't want it to

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Speaker 1: be like this anymore. We want change, We want to

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Speaker 1: see things altered that we don't have to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: scanning constantly in a car, scanning, you know, looking around

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Speaker 1: and putting ourselves in a defensive position to escape.

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Speaker 4: You know, we shouldn't have to live like this.

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Speaker 2: Well, and in this way, by the way, groups together

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Speaker 2: two different kinds of granted, statistically rare but very traumatic events,

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Speaker 2: which is mass shootings in this kind of thing, both

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Speaker 2: perpetrated by very obviously violent, mentally ill people, yeah, who

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Speaker 2: had shown violent propensities in the past. I do think

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Speaker 2: that the action we probably need to have a discussion

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Speaker 2: about is how you get those people off.

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Speaker 3: The streets for more permanent periods of time.

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Speaker 2: And again, it's not like just a couple social workers

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Speaker 2: show up at your house. This this point, this man's

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Speaker 2: poor family tried to have him committed and ran up

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Speaker 2: against like problem.

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Speaker 3: The way I understand it, the cabal of NGOs just like, well,

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Speaker 3: they're saying what Van Jones says about him. Can we

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Speaker 3: play that clip real quick.

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Speaker 6: It's not about cashless bail or no cashless bill. It's

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Speaker 6: about the fact that we don't know how to deal

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Speaker 6: with people who were hurting in the way this man

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Speaker 6: was hurting. Hurt people, hurt people. What happened was horrible,

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Speaker 6: but it becomes an opportunity for people to jump on vandwagons.

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Speaker 6: And then for someone like Charlie Kirk, you should be

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Speaker 6: ashamed of himself. No one mentioned the word race, white, black,

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Speaker 6: or anything except him. What people mention is that the

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Speaker 6: horror of what happened to this young woman.

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Speaker 3: No, that's not true.

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Speaker 2: The perpetrator did, in fact mention her race and said

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Speaker 2: that he got her, He got that white girl.

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Speaker 3: It's on tape.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, But for his first point, hurt people hurt people

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Speaker 2: is not the message that's going to solve this in

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Speaker 2: the future.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: That's used for like somebody whose parents were mean to them,

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Speaker 1: so then they're mean to their girlfriend when they grow up.

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Speaker 1: It's not used for somebody smashing and slashing the woman

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Speaker 1: in front of him. I'm sorry, that's not the correct

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Speaker 1: usage of hurt people.

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Speaker 4: Hurt people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then one more clip Caroline Downey, a buddy

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Speaker 2: who writes at National Review She's great Jugo's full bore

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Speaker 2: on the same CNN show to say like, hey, maybe

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Speaker 2: there is another option here.

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Speaker 3: It is he served time for his violent offenses, not

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Speaker 3: for his schizophrenia.

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Speaker 5: I know what I'm saying that that was compounding this

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Speaker 5: entire issue, the fact that he lashed out violently on that.

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Speaker 3: I know.

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Speaker 6: I'm just saying he did actually serve time for the

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Speaker 6: violent offenses that he committed.

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Speaker 5: But he was a career criminal, a repeat offender who

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Speaker 5: was let back onto our streets despite a really bad

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Speaker 5: criminal record that suggests he should have been locked away

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Speaker 5: for life because he was threatening the public, He was

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Speaker 5: a menace to society.

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Speaker 3: He should have been locked away for life for what

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Speaker 3: Now he should have schizophrenia? Want to you actually said that.

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Speaker 7: Said that, he said he should be locked away for

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Speaker 7: life for schizophrenia institutionalized. Yes, And if you're saying they

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Speaker 7: should not, you're saying that young women like you and

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Speaker 7: me are basically just we're lambs into the slaughter. You

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Speaker 7: go on public transportation in this city, that could happen

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Speaker 7: to any single one of us. I use public transit constantly.

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Speaker 3: That is completely unhinged.

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Speaker 7: Frankly, people shouldn't be locked away for mental illness. They

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Speaker 7: should be treated for it in institution.

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Speaker 2: Yes, m I mean we used to do this, and

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Speaker 2: it's tricky because it's a liberty question. I don't want

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Speaker 2: people being like involuntarily committed at the drop of a hat.

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Speaker 2: But someone who has many violent offenses and is diagnosed

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Speaker 2: skis for.

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Speaker 4: A hard call. We gotta yeah. And the way that

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Speaker 4: they acted.

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Speaker 1: Is if she was crazy, and who would believe this.

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Speaker 1: Most people would believe this, Most people would want that.

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Speaker 1: Most people would choose that, and they would choose it

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Speaker 1: even if it was their family member, like this man's

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Speaker 1: family wanted to do to him.

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Speaker 2: That's the problem because many families get stuck in this

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Speaker 2: position because you have an adult citizen who you cannot force.

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Speaker 2: Often a male who is stronger than the rest of

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Speaker 2: his family who you cannot force.

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Speaker 3: To stay on his medication.

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Speaker 2: But in an institutionalized situation, yeah, they could be on

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Speaker 2: daily medication.

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Speaker 1: And CNN panels will tell you that, no, you cannot

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Speaker 1: institutionalize your violent family member.

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Speaker 3: How dare you we need some options?

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Speaker 4: That'd be nice? That would be nice.

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Speaker 1: We'll be right back on normally where we'll talk about

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Speaker 1: the Biden job numbers. Was anything real about the Biden administration?

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Speaker 1: Be right back on normally. Welcome back on normally where

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Speaker 1: a giant downward revision of jobs from April twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: four to March twenty twenty five has just taken place,

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Speaker 1: and it really makes me think, what the hell's going

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Speaker 1: on over there? I don't understand how this happens.

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Speaker 4: How how do you have an.

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Speaker 1: Almost one million jobs revised downward? The actual numbers nine

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Speaker 1: hundred and eleven thousand, and that is quite a large

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Speaker 1: number to kind of make an error like nine hundred

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Speaker 1: and eleven sure, nine thousand, okay, almost a million?

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Speaker 4: How does that happen?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I just this bothers me immensely and I don't think

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Speaker 2: that I don't think that Trunk deals with it the

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Speaker 2: right way by just like firing people at the Bureau

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Speaker 2: of Labor Statistics.

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Speaker 3: But it's clear that we have a problem.

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Speaker 2: This is like my issue with the CDC, right, Like

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Speaker 2: I would like to build trust in these stats.

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Speaker 3: I would like to know that the stats are real.

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Speaker 2: Can we please get someone to rationally look through what

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Speaker 2: we're doing who can be.

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Speaker 3: Trustworthy and careful and then.

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Speaker 2: Correct the way that we do this work. And by

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Speaker 2: the way, along the way, you may find that someone

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Speaker 2: at BLS was like, yeah, I put the finger on

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Speaker 2: the scale in the other direction.

447
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, right, Like that doesn't surprise me at this point.

448
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 1: Right, we don't know, And that continues to be the

449
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,840
Speaker 1: problem of the Biden administration. It was so opaque and

450
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,720
Speaker 1: close to us that we don't know what happened here.

451
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,919
Speaker 1: It's it's baffling, it really is. People have dug up,

452
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: you know, old Biden tweets. Since I took office, we've

453
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,320
Speaker 1: recovered all the jobs lost during the pandemic and added

454
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: over six million more. That turns out to be untrue.

455
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: And I don't know. I don't know how people have

456
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,560
Speaker 1: any trust in anything that.

457
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:24,720
Speaker 4: The government says anymore.

458
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,640
Speaker 1: We were lied to for four years about so many

459
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 1: different things. And this is why, you know, I'm so

460
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theorist, and I am afraid that conspiracy

461
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: theories are gripping our country, both on the right and

462
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:41,359
Speaker 1: the left. But you could see where they're coming from.

463
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,400
Speaker 1: You could see where they're stemming from. They're like, everybody's

464
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: lying to us, and we are like, no, not everybody,

465
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:48,560
Speaker 1: but lots of people.

466
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 3: It's easier to point out the ones that aren't right.

467
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 1: We're like, let's make a short list of the ones

468
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: who aren't lying to you. And that's that's the real

469
00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,959
Speaker 1: issue here. I think that public trust is so broken

470
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,720
Speaker 1: that I don't know how we recover from it.

471
00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's really bad.

472
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 2: Can I point out and I'm going rogue here, but

473
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 2: I can I point out another statistics story that I

474
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,119
Speaker 2: think is important and it is a terrible legacy of

475
00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 2: the Biden administration because this broke yesterday. The National report

476
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 2: Card came out again yesterday and it is devastating. Yeah,

477
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 2: the decline and this is Wall Street Journal, The decline

478
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,480
Speaker 2: in American K through twelve public education is getting worse.

479
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: More dispariating evidence came Tuesday with the nation's report card

480
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: showing a third of high school seniors lack basic reading

481
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: skills and nearly half can't do rudimentary math.

482
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,440
Speaker 3: I mean, that's the headline. There's so much more in it.

483
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:43,040
Speaker 2: For instance, the fact that low performing students, as you

484
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 2: and I pointed out what happened post pandemic, have fallen

485
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: off more precipitously than everyone else. That racial gaps have

486
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: gotten larger as a result, because you hurt those who

487
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:52,840
Speaker 2: were hurting.

488
00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of that, you hurt those.

489
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 4: Who were applied accurately more.

490
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 3: Than those who had more resources.

491
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 2: And this is we can delve into it more in

492
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: the future, because I do think it's worth getting into

493
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,560
Speaker 2: the weeds on it. The top lines are really devastating.

494
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 2: I am genuinely worried about literacy as a basic sort.

495
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 3: Of like existential issue for this society.

496
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:23,240
Speaker 1: I absolutely agree. I don't know how we recover from this,

497
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: and I think that the whole I mean, there's so

498
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: many problems. You know, we could obviously get into all

499
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:32,000
Speaker 1: of it, but the fact that we haven't been able

500
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: to recover to pre pandemic levels is yet more evidence

501
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: that closing schools was a giant, giant, giant mistake, and

502
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,200
Speaker 1: nobody's taken responsibility for it. Nobody has said this was wrong,

503
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 1: we would never do it again. Instead, the people who

504
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 1: did it, like Randy Wingarden, are saying that she fought

505
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: to open schools, which I'm always like, who were you fighting?

506
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 4: Who was on the other side of that fight?

507
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 3: You know, she's got a.

508
00:25:58,160 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: New book out, by the way, she's got a new

509
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 2: book coming out about how like if I did it? Yeah,

510
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 2: that's what it should be. It's actually called it's actually

511
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 2: called why. I think it's called why Fascists Hate teachers,

512
00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,400
Speaker 2: because you know she has to arm everybody to man,

513
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,920
Speaker 2: you quit your job for two years.

514
00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 3: You stopped, right, you stopped.

515
00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

516
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 1: I had a good liberal liberal friend who posted yesterday

517
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: or two days ago like fascists are always coming for

518
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,920
Speaker 1: the science first, and I had to respond and I

519
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 1: was like, this is this about the COVID years.

520
00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we will do some more of that later

521
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: because I'd like to flesh it out. But that is

522
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: I didn't want to leave it untouched because it's yet

523
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 2: another statistical, uh and and very real crisis from lying

524
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:46,679
Speaker 2: by the people.

525
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,480
Speaker 1: Stop lying to the people and try to rebuild trust.

526
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:52,760
Speaker 1: I don't know how we do it, but I think

527
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 1: that some steps should be taken in that direction.

528
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 2: Well, Kamala is trying to rebuild some trust with her

529
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,879
Speaker 2: new book. Have more on that normally in a second.

530
00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 2: All right, we're back on normally, and Kamala Harris has

531
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: a book coming out. It's called One hundred and seven Days.

532
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 2: It's going to be a real romp, according to the

533
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 2: excerpts we've seen thus far, one of which just says like, hey,

534
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,639
Speaker 2: probably shouldn't have run that guy again, in reference to

535
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 2: Joe Biden, who was her boss, who was the person

536
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 2: that she was VP for, who was the person who

537
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 2: she would have been in a position to best assess

538
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:32,680
Speaker 2: that he shouldn't run again.

539
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,479
Speaker 3: And yet she didn't say nothing, did she?

540
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 4: No, she didn't she.

541
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: The excerpt that The Atlantic got has the quote, was

542
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,400
Speaker 1: it grace or was it recklessness? In retrospect, I think

543
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,239
Speaker 1: it was recklessness, Harris writes of her decision not to

544
00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560
Speaker 1: convince Biden to drop out of the twenty twenty four

545
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: race earlier. The stakes were simply too high. This wasn't

546
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: a choice that should have been left an individual's ego,

547
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: an individual's ambition.

548
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 4: It should have been more than a personal decision. End quote.

549
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 4: Here's the thing.

550
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:08,600
Speaker 1: The reason that Biden ran was because Kamala Harris was

551
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 1: going to take his place, and they knew she was

552
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: going to lose. So she hasn't faced that reality yet.

553
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 4: But that's what happened here. I was willing.

554
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 1: To bet the house that Biden was going to run,

555
00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 1: and the reason was because all of the other ideas

556
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: of who could replace him, like, oh, they could slip

557
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:29,600
Speaker 1: and Gavin newsom, oh.

558
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,440
Speaker 4: It'll be Jill Biden or whatever.

559
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: I was always like, no, guys, it can only be Kamala.

560
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,600
Speaker 1: She is the only person that it can be and

561
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 1: nobody wants that. That's why he's going to run. So

562
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, Buck Sexton one time was like, we weren't wrong.

563
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 4: He did run, just not the whole way.

564
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:52,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, I agree that I thought the better

565
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:54,520
Speaker 2: thing they should have done, probably when they were in

566
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 2: a pinch, was like immediately handed off to Kamala. However,

567
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: we all knew that deficiencies were a why she was

568
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: picked and b why it was bad for her to

569
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 2: go forward. Let me also say that she hasn't come

570
00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,960
Speaker 2: to grips with reality. Reality not even just the other

571
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: point you made. But in the book, in this excerpt,

572
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:15,920
Speaker 2: it notes the New York Times notes Miss Harris dismissed

573
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 2: any notion that mister Biden was not mentally or physically

574
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 2: fit to serve as president. Okay, so it was reckless

575
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: to have him make the decision to run.

576
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: But why why? But why was it reckless?

577
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: Because if there's not a reason, then that doesn't make

578
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 2: any sense.

579
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 3: Now.

580
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 2: Her answer is at eighty one, Joe got tired. That's

581
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: when his age showed in physical and verbal stumbles. Like

582
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: this is just hair splitting to a ridiculous degree. Just

583
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: to admit it, just to admit actually she should say

584
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:47,160
Speaker 2: is admit it?

585
00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 3: Say everything juicy she saw?

586
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: Say they kept me out of rooms with him because

587
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: he was so debilitated.

588
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 3: And I wish I had known more and done more. Yeah,

589
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 3: she doesn't be a book. I read.

590
00:29:58,040 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 4: Right again.

591
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: Honesty, Honesty would go a long way, and it would

592
00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: help her. In fact, if she could be a more

593
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: authentic person, she could go places after being vice president.

594
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: It's her inauthenticity that is the problem. In twenty sixteen,

595
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: when she ran for president, I actually wrote a column

596
00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: about how Elizabeth Warren was unlikable, and I was like,

597
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: but nobody's saying that about Kamala Harris because she wasn't unlikable.

598
00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 3: No, it was different. Then she was different, right, Yeah, she.

599
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: Only became unlikable when she started kind of lying about

600
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: who she was and what she believed and the kind

601
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: of person that she was. And if she wrote a

602
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,520
Speaker 1: book and told the truth, I don't know, she could

603
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: have a future.

604
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 4: Maybe.

605
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:40,480
Speaker 3: No.

606
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 2: I look back on moments of my commentary during those

607
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 2: years and think there were moments when I thought she

608
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 2: was quite good on the stage. I thought she was,

609
00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: you know, taking cheap shots sometimes, but she did it effectively, right,

610
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: And then the bottom just dropped.

611
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 3: Out on that.

612
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 2: I also want to point out that she really has

613
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 2: this cell phone where she says it's Joe and Jill's decision.

614
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 2: We all said that like a mantra, as if we'd

615
00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 2: all been hypnotized. Okay, the last thing I want is

616
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 2: a president who can be hypnotized.

617
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,440
Speaker 4: It's by Jill Biden not interested in that.

618
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 3: Like you didn't.

619
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:18,840
Speaker 2: You didn't have the strength to stand up to your

620
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 2: peer group and your bosses and say this was bad.

621
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 4: Right, So yeah, I was going to say that.

622
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: Actually, I think that what happened to her and why

623
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 1: she fell apart in such a you know, spectacular fashion,

624
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: is of the problem that's going on on the left.

625
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 4: They don't know who they're supposed to be.

626
00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: When they say things that they used to believe, you know,

627
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: seven years ago, their left flank comes for them so hard.

628
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 4: That they don't know what to say.

629
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 1: I'm curious to see how any of them run for

630
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 1: president in the next you know go around. I mean,

631
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 1: just an example that comes to mind, you know, in

632
00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 1: the beginning, when AOC first hit the scene and she

633
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: does the interview with Margaret Hoover, and she says that

634
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: she's for a two state solution, and that used to

635
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: be something that liberals believed in Israel, right, They believed

636
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,520
Speaker 1: in a two state solution in Israel, one for the

637
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 1: for the Israelis, one for the Palestinians now and then

638
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: she she had to walk that back because the leftists

639
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: were like.

640
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,120
Speaker 4: We don't believe that anymore. So who knows what they

641
00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 4: stand for.

642
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: If you don't know what you stand for, you can't

643
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: make a strong argument for it. And that is the

644
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: problem that they're all going to run into. So when

645
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: the Gavin Newsom's of the world on the debate stage

646
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: are going to have to talk about, you know, trans

647
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 1: kids in sports.

648
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,240
Speaker 4: He just told Charlie Kirk that.

649
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,040
Speaker 1: He supports, you know, the trans girls not playing.

650
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 4: In girls' sports.

651
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: Is he going to be able to say that again

652
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: on a debate stage or that was without saying he

653
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: hasn't do anything about it, But will he even be

654
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: able to repeat that without the left going bananas.

655
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 2: The other example is, of course Abigail Spamberger, who's running

656
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 2: in Virginia for governor and may very well win because

657
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: it's a very purplish blue state with a lot of

658
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: federal workers. But she's the great normy savior for them, allegedly,

659
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: and she can't even say the thing about boys and

660
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: girls sports.

661
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 3: She can't even say the.

662
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: Thing about boys and girls locker rooms, or girls and

663
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 2: boys locker rooms. In fact, she voted for legislation that

664
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 2: endorsed all these things. I think sponsored legislation that endorsed

665
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 2: all these things. And in the meantime, she's like, my

666
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 2: first act will be to make sure that this is

667
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 2: a sanctuary state.

668
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 7: Like.

669
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Speaker 2: These things are not in line with the national public

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00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 2: for sure, and Democrats like Jon Favreau are going to

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00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:37,920
Speaker 2: blame voters for noticing that they believed and kept believing

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00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:38,600
Speaker 2: these things.

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00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 3: He's gonna be like, she hasn't said that in the

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Speaker 3: last three weeks. Well, that doesn't count.

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Speaker 1: In the last three weeks exactly right, Well, what does

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Speaker 1: she believe today, Mary Catherine.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the important thing. It's a pickle. They're in

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Speaker 3: a pickle.

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Speaker 4: It is it is.

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Speaker 1: I can't wait to see how this turns out. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying they can't win. I'm not saying they're not

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Speaker 1: going to win races. And Republicans are going to run

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00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 1: some bad candidates in some place and I mean not

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Speaker 1: in Virginia but in other places, and they're going to

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Speaker 1: win races and it'll happen. But they don't know who

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Speaker 1: they are, and they can't say. If they do know,

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Speaker 1: they still can't say it.

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Speaker 3: So we'll see.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us on Normally Normally airs Tuesdays and Thursdays,

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00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. Get

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Speaker 1: in touch with us at Normallythepod at gmail dot com.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally