1 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. 2 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 2: Welcome to another edition of Packers Unscripted from Packers dot Com. 3 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:22,959 Speaker 2: I and Mike Spoffor, joined as always by my partner 4 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 2: in crime, Wes Hodquitz. Happy New Year to everybody. We 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 2: are coming to you hear from our studios at lambeau 6 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: Field and Wes. The Packers will be taking on the 7 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 2: Chicago Bears in the week eighteen regular season finale on 8 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 2: Sunday at lambeau Field. We'll kind of get to more 9 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 2: of the specifics on the Bears in a minute, but 10 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: the big story from Wednesday here at twelve sixty five 11 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 2: Lombardi Avenue was that there's kind of finally kind of 12 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 2: been an answer on the JayR Alexander knee injury situation. 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 2: He had to go in for another procedure. Sounded like 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 2: it was just a scope cleanup type of thing. But 15 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,559 Speaker 2: his situation with his knee is he is most likely 16 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 2: out for the rest of the season now. The Packers 17 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: not going to have him practice. He won't be trying 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: to come back at this point to play in the playoffs. 19 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: So you know, it's disappointing, certainly because I think all 20 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 2: of us were hoping somewhere along the line that jay 21 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: R Alexander, the Packers' best cornerback, would be back on 22 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: the field at some point, but it's a reality that 23 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:31,120 Speaker 2: the team has been dealing with with him not playing 24 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: for quite a while. So now it's moving forward with 25 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: the guys you have. 26 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it is for sure, Mike. And as you said, 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 1: I mean it's not just that Gerry Alexander's their best cornerback. 28 00:01:39,319 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 1: He's one of their best players when he's healthy and 29 00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: he's right. We saw it in twenty twenty two he 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: was able to finally come back from that shoulder injury. 31 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 1: Plays at all pro level. But the last two season, 32 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 1: whether it was the back, the shoulder, or now the knee, 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 1: there's just been this never ending chorus. It feels like 34 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 1: an ailment set have kind of plagued him and it 35 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: has caused the Packers to really have to shift gears. So, yeah, 36 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,640 Speaker 1: I feel bad for you Green Bay and where they're 37 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: at right now and how they got to try to 38 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: figure this thing out. But at the same time, as 39 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:10,400 Speaker 1: Carrington Valentine said in the locker room, a lot of 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: guys had talked about, I mean that they've been through this, 41 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: they know what's going to be required of them. They 42 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,639 Speaker 1: know the domino effect that is going to come from that. 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: I think the bigger thing now for Green Bay is 44 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: figuring out exactly what happens with the safety room, because 45 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: there's such a domino effect with these safeties that also 46 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: affect what happens at cornerback. Javon Bullard right now still 47 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: limited with the with the ankle, but he's the one 48 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 1: healthy guy quote unquote next to Xavier McKinney. You still 49 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:39,080 Speaker 1: don't have Evan Williams out with the quadrcept injury. Then 50 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: obviously Zane Anderson gets the concussion on Sunday. So there's 51 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: been so many different things that when we always talk 52 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: about offensive line play, right, you like to have your 53 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: best starting five, you like to have them playing together. 54 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: The secondary hasn't really been able to do that for 55 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,760 Speaker 1: one reason or another in the domino effect of moving 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: around Keshawn Nixon or Bullard or having to go in 57 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: and out with Valentine and also Eric Stokes. Green Bay 58 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: knows what the challenges and dangers that lie ahead against 59 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 1: some of these other NFC teams are with their offensive 60 00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: passing games, and these guys are gonna have to be 61 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 1: up for that challenge. 62 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, they absolutely are. And here's what I hope. Obviously, 63 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: you hope that everybody can be healthy and available, but 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: looking ahead to next week when the playoffs start and 65 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: when everything is on the line, this is what I 66 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: hope for the Packers in the secondary that whatever group 67 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: can practice next week Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, you hope 68 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 2: that that is the group that can play the entire 69 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 2: game in the playoff game. Because what we've seen when 70 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,839 Speaker 2: this Packer secondary has shown itself to be the most 71 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: vulnerable is when guys have gone down during a game 72 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: and then the musical chairs start and you have guys 73 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: having to shift around and play different positions, and Jeff 74 00:03:56,840 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 2: Hafley is still trying to make all the calls and everything, 75 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 2: but he's got guys in spots where they weren't practicing 76 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: during the week. Because you have your plan, you practice 77 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 2: that plan. It's not that they don't know these other 78 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: positions because obviously they can play them during the game. 79 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: But there's a big difference between knowing what to do 80 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 2: and practicing the actual game plan at those spots. And 81 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 2: we saw the game at Detroit. Evan Williams went down 82 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 2: early in the game, Javon Bullard went down late in 83 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: the game, and there was this constant shuffling around as 84 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 2: far as figuring things out in the back end, and 85 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: it made it really tough on the defense. Last week, 86 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 2: the Packers defensively in the first quarter were pretty darn good, 87 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: but then Zane Anderson goes down. The domino effects starts. 88 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: Javon Bullard, who had just come back from a two 89 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 2: week absence, wasn't one hundred percent, hadn't been practicing full 90 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,240 Speaker 2: and let alone practicing the position he was then forced 91 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 2: to play when Anderson went down. So my hope for 92 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 2: this Packer's secondary that has to move on without jyr 93 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: Alexander for the rest of the way here is that 94 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: whoever's practicing next week Wednesday, Thursday and Friday, hopefully they 95 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: can play together for the entire game in the playoffs, 96 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 2: because then I think that gives the Packers their best 97 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 2: chance to win. 98 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:10,599 Speaker 1: And I give a lot of, you know, kudos in 99 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 1: respect to what Jevon Bullard has done this season, because 100 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: he's absolutely he've been putting some tough spots. Yes, because 101 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: he starts the year as the starting safety next to 102 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: Xavier McKinney. They start the adjustment where he moves down 103 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: into the slot because one, they need a Kishawn Nixon outside, 104 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: but it also got Evan Williams on the field, and 105 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: Evan Williams kind of proved himself along with Bullard as 106 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: being one of their top eleven guys. And there's a 107 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 1: lot of years, Mike where the Packers wanted to Len 108 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: blessed to have a Xavier McKinney on their roster. Very 109 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: possibly you could have had two rookies starting back there 110 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,600 Speaker 1: on this absolutely with how with how Green Bay had 111 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:43,480 Speaker 1: to approach this thing, so you know, Bullard has had 112 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: to kind of pinball back and forth, I think, and 113 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: you know, fans can say whatever they want. I know 114 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: at some point I think they were bickering at him 115 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: to the point that Kishan just shut down his Twitter. 116 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 1: But Kishawn Nixon, I think has had an extraordinary season 117 00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 1: for what has been asked of him. He's still a 118 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: top notch kickoff returner, which is one of the big reasons, 119 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,679 Speaker 1: you know, getting the contract last year. But he's taken 120 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: his game to another level as a cornerback. Last year, 121 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 1: he was the nickel in this year, as he's told 122 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: this countless times now, he's been a perimeter cornerback. He 123 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: was a perimeter cornerback with the Raiders, but he just 124 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: hasn't had the reps. Yeah, game and now back to 125 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: back seasons now, I think over eight hundred defensive snaps 126 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:25,599 Speaker 1: each of those seasons. The Packers desperately needed a guy 127 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: like that that not only can step up in the 128 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,840 Speaker 1: face of injuries, but also allow Jeff Hafley to move 129 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: around those pieces whether he's inside or outside. 130 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 2: I agree with you one hundred percent on Keishawn Nixon. 131 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,760 Speaker 2: I put in one of the headlines of one of 132 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 2: the columns Insider Inbox Columns that I wrote last week. 133 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,040 Speaker 2: I think Keishawn Nixon has had a vastly underrated season 134 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 2: in terms of what he has contributed with bouncing back 135 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 2: and forth between the between boundary corner slot corner, proving 136 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,600 Speaker 2: for a number of games that he that he can 137 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,359 Speaker 2: be this team's number one corner when asked to be 138 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: when Jay R Alexander is not available. And yes, you 139 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 2: play cornerback in the NFL, guess what you're gonna get beat. 140 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 2: You're gonna give up completions. You might get flagged for 141 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 2: DPI once in a while. It's part of the life 142 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 2: of an NFL cornerback, right, But what Kishaw Nixon, What 143 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 2: Keishaw Nixon has done. I agree with you one hundred 144 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 2: percent that he that he has taken his game to 145 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:22,800 Speaker 2: another level. And I think Kishaw Nixon is probably the 146 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: biggest reason the Packers' secondary has been able to withstand 147 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: so many games without Jay or Alexander and and things 148 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: haven't just completely fallen Apart as frustrating as things were 149 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: in the back end against Sam Darnold, you have to 150 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 2: remember this defense also just shut out the New Orleans 151 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 2: Saints on Monday Night, you know, a little over a 152 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: week ago, so we've seen what this defense can do. 153 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: I think I think Nixon has been and will continue 154 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: to be a big part of it. And and I 155 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: appreciate you bringing him up because because he deserves he 156 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: deserves more recognition than he has gotten to this point 157 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: in the season. 158 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: I think a lot about Tremon Williams too. I mean, 159 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: there a lot of years Tremont Williams is a future 160 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: Packers Hall of Famer, did get to a Pro Bowl 161 00:08:03,520 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: during his career, but there were a lot of years 162 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: where Tremon wasn't even considered Like the QB or the 163 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: CB one. Yeah, there are a lot of years where 164 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 1: it was you know, obviously you go back to the 165 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: Charles Woodson days and then and then Al Harris, and 166 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,800 Speaker 1: then you have a guy like Casey Hayward come in 167 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: as a rookie and have six interception. Sam Shields is 168 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: a top corner. But what was the thing about Tremon 169 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: that made him so special was he was always available, 170 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: He was always out there, and he did it at 171 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: a high level. And there's something about that where with 172 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: Keishawn Nixon, former undrafted free agent as well, a guy 173 00:08:36,720 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: that you know, he had some injuries coming out of college, 174 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:40,959 Speaker 1: he had some stuff going on, wasn't able to probably 175 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: show the speed that he really truly has that speed 176 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: that I thought was evident when he was able to 177 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: recover on that pass to Jordan Addison that he was 178 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: able to break up in the end zone. Right, that's 179 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: what you need to navigate a season. And again, we'll 180 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:56,040 Speaker 1: see how far the Packers can run this thing, but 181 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: I don't think they're in the position there are today 182 00:08:58,400 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: without Kishan. 183 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree with you there. Well, turning the 184 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: page to the Bears, Chicago is coming into lambeau Field 185 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: on Sunday. I remember Wes, you and I, you know, 186 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: we have those conversations at the end of our shows 187 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 2: about other results from around the league. And when Washington 188 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: beat Chicago on the Hail Mary, I remember both of 189 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: us sitting here talking like, well, let's you know, Chicago 190 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:26,560 Speaker 2: was four and two, they were one play away from 191 00:09:26,559 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 2: getting to five and two and really riding high with 192 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: their rookie quarterback Caleb Williams and everything he was doing. 193 00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 2: And we sat here and said, well, let's see how 194 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 2: the Bears respond to an absolutely devastating loss. The season 195 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 2: went completely off the rails after the Hail Mary. The 196 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 2: Bears have not won a game since. They have lost 197 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 2: ten straight. Now, obviously the head coach has been the 198 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: head coach was replaced along the way, and the Bears 199 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: are obviously going to be into a full fledged coaching 200 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 2: search in the offseason. And on the flip side of 201 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 2: the streak things, Matt Lafleur is eleven and zero against 202 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: the Chicago Bears, trying to go twelve and oh has 203 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 2: not lost to Chicago since taking over as the head 204 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 2: coach of the Packers. So I'm just gonna throw this 205 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 2: I'm gonna throw this at you right away. What are 206 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: the keys to victory for the Packers to give the 207 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 2: Bears their eleventh straight loss and to win their twelfth 208 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:35,560 Speaker 2: consecutive game in this rivalry. Sorry, I threw it at you, fense. 209 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,559 Speaker 1: No, no, no, I'm no. There's a lot that goes 210 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: into this answer. It's not ay, I can't come up 211 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,839 Speaker 1: with one. It's the because you don't want to be 212 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: flippant about this right because the Bears, as Matt Lafleur said, 213 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: the Bears are in NFL team, they're hungry. If you 214 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: watch the film, they're still hungry. But it's not a 215 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: good football team. It just isn't. And there's no other 216 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: way you can slice it. I feel like at times 217 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:02,840 Speaker 1: their defenses formed. Caleb Williams has done an extraordinary job 218 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: protecting the football this season. 219 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 2: Yep. 220 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: But the change off and the trade off to that, 221 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 1: as he's been sacked sixty seven times. They got all 222 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,959 Speaker 1: these receivers, they've gotten them opportunities, but not necessarily explosives. 223 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,719 Speaker 1: I think DeAndre Swift I was really high on that 224 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: earlier this season. I'm not as high on it now. 225 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 1: I just don't think he's quite had the season. He 226 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: probably wanted it that the Bears wanted. So when you 227 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 1: asked me what the key to victory this is, for me, 228 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: it comes back to Caleb Williams. Because I'm not saying 229 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: you need to turn it over because he may protect it, 230 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: but you can't allow him to get into the rhythm 231 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: that he got into in that first game at Soldier 232 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: Field because he was feeling it. And when a guy 233 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: like that, that's that talented and feels that much comfort 234 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: within the pocket, within his arm and being able to 235 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,079 Speaker 1: make those throws, he's going to make plays. The Packers 236 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,360 Speaker 1: can't allow that to happen this game. Yeah, I know 237 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: there's the continuum, the contingencies out there about whether it's 238 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: the sixth seed or the seventh seed. Packers will welcome 239 00:11:59,880 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: in anybody they have to face. Obviously the road would 240 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: be easier if they're the six But that being said, 241 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: that's not why Green Bay needs to win this game. 242 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,440 Speaker 1: They need to win this game because they need to 243 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 1: have that feeling of Okay, we need to get back 244 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: to where we were at mentally after the Saints game, 245 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: right where we can be dominant, we can impose our 246 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: will on teams. And we can be able to extract 247 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: whatever we need to extract from an opponent that has 248 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: lost ten in a row. You don't want to give 249 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: them that victory. And as I also mentioned our Insider 250 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: Inbox Calumn this week, hal Packers handled things in twenty one. 251 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: What happened at the end of the twenty two season, 252 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: You can't tell me that that wasn't the thing that 253 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: started to light the fire with the Lions. They ended 254 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: both of those seasons feeling good about themselves. I see 255 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 1: no reason to give Chicago any semblance, any room for hope. 256 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't. You definitely don't want to do that. 257 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 2: When I look at the Bears, they what they've done. 258 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 2: You see glimpses of what the Bears are capable of 259 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 2: the second half on Thanksgiving against the Lions, right where 260 00:12:57,679 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 2: they almost pulled it off, and then that ended up 261 00:12:59,559 --> 00:13:02,439 Speaker 2: being the game that got Matt Eberflus dismissed because they 262 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 2: botched the clock management at the end of the game. 263 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,680 Speaker 2: You'll look even last Thursday night against the Seattle Seahawks, 264 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 2: the Bears defense showed up and played they were you know, 265 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:12,839 Speaker 2: they they took They took a Seattle off as the 266 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: Seattle Seahawks had a ton to play for in that game, 267 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: and they couldn't move the football. They couldn't score points 268 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 2: against the Bears in Chicago last Thursday night. There So 269 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 2: there there are times that either side of the ball 270 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 2: for Chicago can you know, can show shows what it's 271 00:13:29,679 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 2: capable of and and can give you problems. But when 272 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 2: I look back at the first game Chicago and Green 273 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 2: Bay at Soldier Field, I think one of the biggest 274 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: reasons the Bears stayed in that game is because they 275 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,760 Speaker 2: surprised the Packers with Caleb Williams and the running ability, Yes, 276 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 2: the way he scrambled around and the way he also 277 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:54,319 Speaker 2: ran design runs, the zone read stuff. I think that 278 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: that got the Packers on their heels a little bit. 279 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: And that element to Chicago's offense in that game was 280 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 2: was a huge factor in the Bears putting themselves in 281 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 2: a position to win it at the end with the 282 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,839 Speaker 2: field goal that Green Bay blocked. I think you you 283 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: just you, you bottle up Caleb Williams in whatever way 284 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,040 Speaker 2: is necessary, and you don't let them, you don't let 285 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 2: it run around, you know, and and and those off 286 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 2: schedule type of players are the design quarterback runs if 287 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 2: the Packers shut those down, I think I think Green 288 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 2: Bay's defense will will be just fine against uh against 289 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: Caleb Williams on Sunday. On the offensive side of things, 290 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 2: just you know, just stay balanced, no need to get crazy, 291 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:40,280 Speaker 2: I think, uh, I think Green Bay this is a 292 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,480 Speaker 2: game where I expect the Packers to really get their 293 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 2: mojo back on offense. I you know, I believe that 294 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 2: how things are going to play out in terms of 295 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 2: certain guys on the injury report who may or may 296 00:14:51,040 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 2: not play. You know, I don't know. I don't really 297 00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 2: want to get into all that. I think, uh, I 298 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 2: think this is a game where you you re establish clean, 299 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 2: solid execution on the offensive side of the ball that 300 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 2: you try to take into the playoffs. 301 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: Did you see what KILLB Joes's longest pass of the 302 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: season was. Have you looked at that at all? No, 303 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:13,440 Speaker 1: forty seven yards? They have a couple in the forties, 304 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: but yeah, nothing more than forty seven yards, which is 305 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: which is interesting, all right, because you look at a 306 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,400 Speaker 1: lot of squads, there's there's that one seventy yard right 307 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: off the bat score, those sort of things. They've really 308 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,040 Speaker 1: struggled with the explosives DeAndre Swift has a fifty six 309 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,800 Speaker 1: yard rushing touchdown, and. 310 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 2: He had the forty yard or against against in Chicago 311 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: against the Pack. 312 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: Against Green Bay, which may be probably one of the 313 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,120 Speaker 1: longer runs that Green Bay's given up all season. I 314 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: might be the long it might be the longest. But yeah, 315 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:39,920 Speaker 1: I agree with you. I just think that Keileb Williams, 316 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: he is their best player, and he's a young player 317 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 1: and he's got a lot ahead of him. I think 318 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,040 Speaker 1: he's going to be a headache for the NFC North 319 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: for years to come. I think this has been a 320 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: really challenging year. Yeah, I feel like, you know, you're 321 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,040 Speaker 1: hearing him talk this week when he was asked about 322 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: what you want from the next head coach and what 323 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 1: you want from you know, he talked to what he 324 00:15:57,680 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: wants to be coached, He wants to be challenged, and 325 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: in some ways, I just feel like this year kind 326 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 1: of felt like a continuation of his time at USC. 327 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:07,040 Speaker 1: Not say Dian developed there, he certainly did, but it 328 00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: just I just look at Caleb Williams and everything he offers, 329 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: and there was a reason why he was the top 330 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: quarterback over Daniels and over all these other you know, 331 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: Bo Nicks and these young guys penics that have been 332 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: out there and he just it just feels like it's 333 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 1: been kind of stuck in neutral for them. Now Green 334 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: Bay needs to make sure for at least one more 335 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: day that's still the case. 336 00:16:30,360 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we'll see where things go in the future 337 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 2: with the Bears. It feels it feels to me, now 338 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 2: this is just me talking. When they drafted Justin Fields, 339 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: it felt like the Bears had a decent offensive line 340 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 2: in front of Justin Yields, but then he didn't have 341 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,880 Speaker 2: any didn't have any game breaking type of weapons to 342 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 2: get the ball to. So then as they were trying 343 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 2: to evolve things, and now they've made the transition to 344 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 2: Caleb Williams, they focused on getting offensive weapons, you know, 345 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 2: they have. They signed Dj Moore to a long term, 346 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 2: you know, lucrative contract. They drafted Roma Dunze in the 347 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,440 Speaker 2: in the first round. You add DeAndre Swift to the backfield, 348 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 2: all these things, but then the offensive line kind of 349 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 2: falls apart, and so Caleb Williams is constantly under pressure 350 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 2: and he's getting sacked a ton and all this and 351 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 2: so on on. You know that kind of the whole 352 00:17:20,840 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 2: group just hasn't really been put together offensively for the Bears, 353 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 2: and that's what they're going to look to do moving 354 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 2: forward with Williams and whoever the next head coaches and. 355 00:17:29,560 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: Styles make fights. I mean, that's why maybe Chicago pushed 356 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:34,119 Speaker 1: them as much as they did, because Green Bay was 357 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: really struggling with their pass rush earlier this season and 358 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:37,959 Speaker 1: it's been sort of the Spickett that's gone on and 359 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,720 Speaker 1: off for them throughout the course of the air. Obviously 360 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: wasn't good enough last week in Minnesota. So pressure is 361 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: going to be a paramount, you know, and trying to 362 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,159 Speaker 1: find ways to not only be smart about how you 363 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: approach him, but also making sure that he just doesn't 364 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:53,760 Speaker 1: get into a rhythm offensively. 365 00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 2: All right, I'll take care of some sponsor business here 366 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,919 Speaker 2: West and then we need to talk playoff pictures. So 367 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,240 Speaker 2: serious XMNF Radio Deliter's hard hitting analysis and up to 368 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,679 Speaker 2: the minute NFL news that true football fanatics need twenty 369 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: four to seven, three sixty five And at Cousin Subs, 370 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 2: we have something for everyone like our Wisconsin Cheese cards, 371 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: mac and Cheese, golden fries, and creamy shakes, all pair 372 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 2: of your favorite sub or sub and a Bowl cousin 373 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 2: subs fifty plus years of better all right. Well, As 374 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 2: outlined on our last show, the Packers' playoff picture is 375 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 2: that they can get either the six seed or the 376 00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 2: seven seed. If the Packers win and Washington loses, the 377 00:18:31,240 --> 00:18:35,840 Speaker 2: Packers will get the six. If Washington wins, or if 378 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: the Packers lose, green Bay will be the seven. If 379 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: green Bay is the seven, the Packers know they would 380 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 2: be going to Philadelphia because Philadelphia is locked into the 381 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 2: two seed. If the Packers get the six, there's the 382 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 2: possibility of playing either the Los Angeles Rams or the 383 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 2: Tampa Bay Buccaneers. The Packers know that would be on 384 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 2: the road, of course as a wild card team. I'm curious, 385 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: did you see and maybe correct me if I'm wrong 386 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 2: if I didn't see this right? But did I see 387 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: that the Rams are not playing Matthew Stafford next week? 388 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 1: See? 389 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: That's really interesting. 390 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: Jimmy Garoppolo is starting. 391 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:12,840 Speaker 2: Jimmy Garoppolo is going to start for the Rams. And 392 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,760 Speaker 2: that's interesting to me because the Rams are, you know, 393 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:20,120 Speaker 2: fighting with essentially the Buccaneers if the Buccaneers were to win, 394 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 2: fighting with the Buccaneers for the three versus the four seed, 395 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: and you know, and maybe there's an injury issue with 396 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:31,320 Speaker 2: Matthew Stafford that they need to you know that they 397 00:19:31,359 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 2: want him to rest up and get healthy. But if 398 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 2: the Rams follow the four seed, you're getting the loser 399 00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 2: of the Lions Vikings game. You're getting a fourteen win 400 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 2: team in the first round of the playoffs, which you 401 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: can avoid that if you make sure you get the 402 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,880 Speaker 2: three seeds. So I was just very curious to hear 403 00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 2: that Matthew Stafford's not going to play when the different 404 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:54,919 Speaker 2: I mean, I know it's the playoffs. You have to 405 00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:58,200 Speaker 2: beat everybody regardless, I get that, but you're going to 406 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 2: get a fourteen win team if you're the four seed. 407 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:02,919 Speaker 1: You know. The tough part though about this, Michael, I 408 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: agree with you one hundred percent just for the record, 409 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: but and I'm not saying there is a big difference there. 410 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: Obviously look at the wins and losses. But you're either 411 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:14,159 Speaker 1: fac in Minnesota with Washington or Green Bay. Like no 412 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 1: matter what, if you look at you know Sean mcvay's 413 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,159 Speaker 1: track record against Green Bay, he's really struggled against the 414 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: Packers during the Matt Lafleour era. They lost again this 415 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,360 Speaker 1: season I understand they were really hurting. 416 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 2: Ever, yeah, they were really banged up that game. 417 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: But I think this is good. People are going to 418 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,360 Speaker 1: take this a lot of different ways when you look 419 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 1: at how banged up the Rams were at various intervals 420 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 1: of the season. In the fact that I think there 421 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: was a stat now that I don't want to get 422 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: it wrong, but basically the Rams are one of very 423 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 1: few teams that have come back from one to four 424 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: records to win a division make a playoff, and they've 425 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: done it twice. Now underneath McVeigh, this has happened twice 426 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 1: in his tenure where they've gotten off to these slow starts, 427 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: So I almost understand it now. Again. Matt Lafleur made 428 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: such a brilliant point on Wednesday when he said the 429 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 1: you know whatever, Basically, the only thing that can happen 430 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: the decision you make. It is what it is like, 431 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: whether you're right or wrong. You have to make the 432 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: best decision you feel like for your football team, and 433 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: the results will tell you whether or not it was correct. 434 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 1: In terms of the public narrative, everybody else has the 435 00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: benefit of twenty twenty hindsight, right, These coaches have to 436 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,480 Speaker 1: figure out Okay, what is in the best interest of 437 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: my football team. I'm gonna stick with that, and then 438 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,159 Speaker 1: we'll let the results be what they are. 439 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:31,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 440 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 1: I wish I could remember the exactly Floirqule because it 441 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 1: was pretty well said the way you put it. But 442 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 1: long story short, if this is the route that Sean 443 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: McVay feels like they got to go with the Rams 444 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: to be as healthy as possible going to the playoffs, 445 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:45,560 Speaker 1: let it lie, because I mean, if there's a team 446 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: that has been playing with house money more than any 447 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: other squad in the NFC over the last month and 448 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: a half, it's la Yeah. 449 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,439 Speaker 2: And I guess I was caught off guard by it 450 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: because I wasn't aware of something injury wise with Matthew Stafford. 451 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: Maybe I was just ignorant that or whatever, I you know, 452 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:03,440 Speaker 2: And so if there is some kind of an injury 453 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 2: and they're resting him for that reason like that, I 454 00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,000 Speaker 2: get it, you know, clearly. But it just when I 455 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 2: first saw the news that Stafford wasn't gonna play, I 456 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,679 Speaker 2: was caught off guard because there is a you know, 457 00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,720 Speaker 2: there is a difference in the seating that that the 458 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 2: Rams are playing for. 459 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 1: And then you're gonna be going up against the Seattle 460 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,120 Speaker 1: team that I think still wants to get to ten 461 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,280 Speaker 1: wins and prove that we should have been in this 462 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,240 Speaker 1: conversation for the post. Ye so yeah. 463 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,520 Speaker 2: A couple other questions I want to throw at you. One, 464 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 2: who do you think gets the last spot in the AFC. 465 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 1: I would love to say the Cincinnati I would every 466 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: I think everybody want. I think everybody wants to see 467 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: Joe Burrow with the way he's playing. They want to 468 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: see Joe Burrow get into the playoffs. But Denver is 469 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: the one in control. 470 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're gonna be playing a Kansas City team that 471 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,399 Speaker 2: has nothing to play for and they're basically resting, resting 472 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 2: the vast majority of their guys. 473 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:59,120 Speaker 1: But the big guys obviously, I think I saw something. 474 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: I think the Denver Broncos are like double digit favorites 475 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 1: in this yeah so approach of Kansas City. 476 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 2: So if Denver wins, they get it. If the Broncos 477 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: don't beat the Chiefs or you know, the Chiefs JV 478 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 2: or what you call it, Carson Wentz chief the Carson 479 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 2: Wentz Chiefs, then then Miami is the next team that 480 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: can take that playoff spot. But now I hear Tua 481 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 2: is on the injury report and his status for this 482 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 2: game is not certain. 483 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: Got the hip, Yeah, he's. 484 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,720 Speaker 2: Got a hip issue. So then if Miami were not 485 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: to get it, then it would fall to Joe Burrow 486 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: and the Bengals. If the Bengals can win their last game, 487 00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 2: which is they play on Saturday. So then if they win, 488 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 2: then they sit and scoreboard watch on Sunday to see 489 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: if maybe it falls their way to get that final 490 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,280 Speaker 2: playoff spot in the apses. 491 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: And there is a Pittsburgh Steelers team that desperately needs 492 00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: to win that game too. When we're just talking about 493 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: momentum entering the postseason, Pittsburgh cannot go into the postseason 494 00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: on this kind of slide. 495 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:02,440 Speaker 2: Yeah they had, I mean yeah, if Pittsburgh loses this game, 496 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,359 Speaker 2: would it be four losses? Yeah, I mean yeah, I'm 497 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 2: sure it's happened before. But I mean these are all 498 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 2: pretty It's pretty rare for a team to enter the 499 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 2: postseason on a four game losing streak. 500 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: Philly, Baltimore, and Kansas City, I mean those are nine. 501 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 2: The back end of their schedule was absolutely brutal. 502 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: The problem is they just weren't over the competitive in. 503 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 2: Those games, right, So they didn't they didn't really make 504 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 2: a strong run at winning any of those contests. All right, Well, 505 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,360 Speaker 2: last one I'll throw at you Lions and the Vikings 506 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 2: yep for the NFC North Crown the number one seed 507 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: in the NFC in the first round. By the loser 508 00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 2: drops to the five seed and has to go on 509 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: the road as a wild card team. Lions are at home. 510 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 2: Both teams obviously, you know, playing pretty darn well. What 511 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 2: are your what are your thoughts on how that went unfold? 512 00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 1: Vikings? I have the Vikings winning this, okay. I and 513 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 1: I'm not just trying to be a hater with the Lions, 514 00:24:56,280 --> 00:25:00,159 Speaker 1: but I think the Lions, I mean credit to then 515 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: that second half they pulled it together against San Francisco. 516 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,240 Speaker 1: I am very nervous for them with that defense, right yeah, 517 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:08,320 Speaker 1: And this is this is a big test, win or lose. 518 00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: This is a big test for that defense to see 519 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: how they're gonna match up with all those weapons that 520 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: Minnesota has. Yep. And obviously TJ. Atkinson is back now 521 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 1: he's you know, you have to imagine this is going 522 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 1: to kind of be a re revenge game for him 523 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: on so many levels, going back up against the Lions 524 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 1: and Kirby Joseph. I just think efficient efficiency wise, I 525 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: don't know if there's anyone in the National Football League 526 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 1: doing it better than Minnesota through all their phases of 527 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,639 Speaker 1: the game. I just I was so impressed by how 528 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: they performed. Now again, they have to go out and 529 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: do it on the road. But Kevin O'Connell's message was 530 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: terrific as well this week, saying, I mean they're they 531 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,840 Speaker 1: understand around the road, but they're not going to be uncomfortable. 532 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,159 Speaker 1: They're going to go and play their style football. I 533 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: think Sam Donald, if I saw that right, we could 534 00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: talk about the Pro Bowl guys in a second. I 535 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: think Sam Darnold was. Was he selected as a starter 536 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: for the Pro Bowl? I actually didn't. I think he was. 537 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: We start talking again, I'll confirm it, okay, But I 538 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:06,480 Speaker 1: mean Sam Darnold's playing an extremely high level. We saw 539 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,320 Speaker 1: the plethora of weapons they have. I mean, for as 540 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: much as we talked about Jefferson and Addison last week, 541 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,280 Speaker 1: Jalen Naylor, you know, really helped them win that game 542 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,200 Speaker 1: against screens oh big time. So you asked me that question, 543 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 1: my answer is Minnesota, bike, I. 544 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 2: Totally agree with you in terms of the concern with 545 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,399 Speaker 2: regard to the Lions defense. Watching that game on Monday 546 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 2: night against San Francisco, a San Francisco with essentially a 547 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 2: makeshift offensive line was having its way with the Lions 548 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 2: defense until Brock Perdy bade a couple of arrant throws 549 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,479 Speaker 2: in the second half that got intercepted by Kirby Joseph 550 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,159 Speaker 2: because otherwise, you know, I thought San Francisco was on 551 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 2: its way to matching the forty points that the Lions 552 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: put up in that game. So I share your concerns 553 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 2: about the Lions defense. It does sound like they may 554 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,879 Speaker 2: get Alex Angeloni, the linebacker back from the broken arm. 555 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 1: He's offers a star. I got that. I really botched 556 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: that golf is the starter. 557 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 2: Oh GoF is okay, So. 558 00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:05,920 Speaker 1: The other team's guy, it's a starter. 559 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:11,120 Speaker 2: Sorry, But so the Lions maybe getting Anzeloni back, which 560 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 2: would be at least a stabilizing force in the middle 561 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 2: of the defense. This is where and I'm with you 562 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 2: in being inclined to pick Minnesota, but this is where 563 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: I hedge because the game is in Detroit, and I 564 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: think Minnesota's defense, which is predicated on the pass rush 565 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 2: and all those crazy looks that Brian Flora wants to 566 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 2: throw at you on third down. That kind of stuff 567 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:36,439 Speaker 2: isn't the same on the road as it is when 568 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:38,719 Speaker 2: you're at home and su home crowd is making all 569 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 2: the noise on third down and the offense is in 570 00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: the silent count and everything like that. I think I 571 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 2: think Minnesota's defense is going to have this is going 572 00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: to be Minnesota's Minnesota defense's biggest challenge of the season 573 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:56,000 Speaker 2: being on the road in Detroit against the Lions offense 574 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 2: that looks about as unstoppable as anything right now. Heck, 575 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: they blew they blew a fourth and goal, passed on 576 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,720 Speaker 2: a field goal, and did not score on a fourth 577 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 2: and goal on Monday night in San Francisco, and they 578 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 2: still put up forty points in the game. So you know, 579 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: so that's just because the game is in Detroit. Like, 580 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,480 Speaker 2: that's that's where I hedge. I think it's gonna be 581 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 2: a way of a game. It's an incredible way to 582 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:22,359 Speaker 2: end the regular season in the NFL with with so 583 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,800 Speaker 2: much on the line, a division championship and a number 584 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: one seed in a first round by and all that, 585 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:30,640 Speaker 2: and then you know, to sort of launch everything into 586 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 2: the playoffs. But but yes, you mentioned the Pro Bowl 587 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: three Shortly before we turn the cameras on here, three 588 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 2: Packers get selected to the Pro Bowls, Xavier McKinney, Josh Jacobs, 589 00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:44,680 Speaker 2: and Rashaan Geary. Your thoughts on how that went down? 590 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,480 Speaker 1: I just, first and foremost, I feel, I mean, congratulations 591 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,080 Speaker 1: all three. Congratulations of the seven alternates for Green Bay, 592 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: including first alternate Elton Jenkins. But you can't help it 593 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: feel great for Xavier McKinney. Yeah, this is the guy 594 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: that has not been to a Pro Bowl yet. I 595 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: think has probably been deserving of it in the past 596 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: during his time with the Giants, but didn't quite come together. 597 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: And now here he is this opportunity comes to Green 598 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: Bay seven interceptions. Obviously, has been such a needle mover 599 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 1: and just a tide turner for this defense. And to 600 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,880 Speaker 1: be able to be rewarded in this way, the way 601 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: he's conducted himself with the media, the way he's been 602 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: a team leader from day one, even when he signed 603 00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: here at twenty four years old, incredible for him. I 604 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: also love it for Josh Shacops because here was a 605 00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: guy that did have He came to Green Bay with 606 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: something to prove last year was not his best season 607 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:32,560 Speaker 1: and it was definitely not the type of year you 608 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:37,400 Speaker 1: want going into free agents. Sure, yeah, Josh Jacobs came 609 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: back and showed I am still every bit the same 610 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: running back I was when I was the NFL rushing 611 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 1: champion two years ago and has done it. Has been selfless, 612 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: has been fought through a lot of different things throughout 613 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: the course of the year, but has always been available 614 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: for his team. Those two signings, I don't think you 615 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: can say enough about them and the impact on and 616 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,160 Speaker 1: off the field they've made. And then also Rashan Gary 617 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: getting some respect. I think last year was, you know, 618 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:02,400 Speaker 1: kind of a snub. I felt like he was a 619 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: first alternate just so happens he doesn't get the call. Yeah, 620 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: this year he does get that opportunity. Thirty eight sacks 621 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: now in his tenure with Green Bay. I think that's 622 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: eighth all times since the official statistic in nineteen eighty two. 623 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: So a guy that also is on the come up as. 624 00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think there's I think there's something to be 625 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,720 Speaker 2: said for the player respect around the league for Rashaun 626 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 2: Gary because he was not all that high in the 627 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 2: fan voting. Correct and he ends up getting a Pro 628 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 2: Bowl selection on this first round, not being an alternate, 629 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 2: but like last year, but actually being selected this time. 630 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 2: The player vote is part of the process, and I 631 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,960 Speaker 2: think maybe some respect was shown was thrown Rashaan Gary's 632 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 2: way by his peers around the league in terms of 633 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:45,720 Speaker 2: him getting this recognition. So hats off to. 634 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: Him, absolutely, and a guy it's done again, done it 635 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: the right way, been around here, been accountable. It's been 636 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: neat to see him come back from that ACL which 637 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: is really the only hiccup he's had in his NFL career, 638 00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: and rallied from that. And then also I didn't realize 639 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,920 Speaker 1: the stakes were this high. Xavier McKinney gets the Star 640 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: darting spot at free safety. That's the only spot Kirby 641 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: Joseph not selected to the Pro Bowl. So that was 642 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 1: kind of a one to two. Those two guys are 643 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:08,440 Speaker 1: going back and form in the fan. 644 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,120 Speaker 2: They were right up there at the top of the 645 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 2: fan voting all the way along. 646 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: And then the coaches and players put it over the 647 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: top for McKinney. So again it shows you how difficult 648 00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: it is to make the Pro Bowl. Sometimes at some 649 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:20,000 Speaker 1: of these positions, it's neat to see x get that opportunity. Yeah. 650 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: Absolutely, And as you said, the two free agents signings, 651 00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,680 Speaker 2: Xavier McKinney Josh Jacobs, they both end up going to 652 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 2: Pro Bowls and you know, in their first year with 653 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,760 Speaker 2: the big time, can't You can't say enough about what 654 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 2: those acquisitions have meant to the twenty twenty four Packers 655 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 2: and most likely beyond here. So listen, folks, the home 656 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: of the twenty twenty five NFL Draft is right here 657 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,920 Speaker 2: in Green Bay April twenty four through April twenty six 658 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 2: of twenty twenty five, So visit green Bay dot com 659 00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: slash Draft twenty five for more information. And with that, 660 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:53,200 Speaker 2: we'll call it a rap on this edition of Packers Unscripted. 661 00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:54,960 Speaker 2: Be sure to follow all of our coverage of the 662 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:57,520 Speaker 2: team on Packers dot com. Wes has a story up 663 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,959 Speaker 2: on the site about the Alexander news as well as 664 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 2: what's going on with the rest of the secondary. He 665 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 2: also has a story on the Pro Bowl select Thank you. 666 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,320 Speaker 1: I'm sitting here celebrating because I think you're going to 667 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 1: toss to the Pro Bowl things. So then you say Alexander, 668 00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: So I'm like sitting here like fist pumping it just 669 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,960 Speaker 1: fit the vibe. Okay, now say the Pro Bowl part. 670 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 2: You have a story up on the Packers Pro Bowl selections, 671 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,040 Speaker 2: and later today there will be a story up on 672 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: the Packers selecting the team winner of the ed Block 673 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 2: Courage Award, So check for that a little bit later 674 00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 2: on on Thursday. That's a story that I was working 675 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 2: on this week as well. So for Wes, I am Mike. 676 00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for tuning in. Everybody, We will see you 677 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:39,640 Speaker 2: next time.