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Speaker 1: I'm curious.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned, you know, the focus on winning, and obviously,

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Speaker 2: as someone who's spent so much time within the PA,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious your view on the current sort of situation

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Speaker 2: with the second you know, the aprons and what that's

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Speaker 2: done to you know, there's been a lot of talk

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Speaker 2: about what it does for sort of the middle of

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Speaker 2: the league and and you know, obviously stuff like not

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Speaker 2: being able to resign Isaiah. I'm curious sort of your

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Speaker 2: perspective on how things currently are and what that's done,

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Speaker 2: you know for the league.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we actually been doing a study on that,

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Speaker 3: and so we we got to keep updating numbers every

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Speaker 3: every free agency or really trade cycle, because it seems

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Speaker 3: like the new free agency is the trade deadline, you know,

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Speaker 3: like are you going to pay me for my value?

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Speaker 3: Or do I have to get traded into a slot

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Speaker 3: I can pay, you know what I'm saying. So that

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Speaker 3: feels like that's the new age. But there's two sides

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Speaker 3: of it. You know, if you go back, you can

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Speaker 3: put an imaginary second apron in every system of the

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Speaker 3: salary cap going back to the eighties, right, like every

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Speaker 3: it's been a salary cap every NBA season. You know,

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Speaker 3: since this similar system has been in place in terms

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Speaker 3: of a salary cap, and so you can draw an

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Speaker 3: imaginary line and say what the second apron is. It's

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Speaker 3: above whatever, forty percent whatever it is. Historically only two

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Speaker 3: teams three teams get there anyway, and so the second

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Speaker 3: apron was pretty much small market having issues with the

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Speaker 3: bigger market teams and wanting to have that competitive balance,

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Speaker 3: like Indiana has never been above any apron, you know,

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Speaker 3: like you can look at that, Charlotte never going.

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Speaker 1: Above the first apron.

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Speaker 3: New Orleans, New Orleans never going to New Orleans is

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Speaker 3: sharing the cafeteria like you know, like you can just

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Speaker 3: go look and see.

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Speaker 1: And so it was really more of.

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Speaker 3: Small owners upset at uh. And it's highlighted on the

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Speaker 3: Warriors run because the Warriors drafted really well. You can

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Speaker 3: historically the Warriors have never been that good, you know,

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Speaker 3: but they are a big market, and so that played

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Speaker 3: a part in it too, like how do you get

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Speaker 3: kd or they drafted well with Harrison. But with the

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Speaker 3: second apron, all of the tiered players average salaries are

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Speaker 3: actually up.

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Speaker 1: So if you say that is it a bad thing?

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Speaker 3: Minimums are up, the middle class is actually up. Then

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Speaker 3: maximum contracts are up a little bit. The only thing

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Speaker 3: that's down is the tier between max and mid levels.

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Speaker 3: So like guys who make like twenty five thirty million,

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Speaker 3: the percentage of contracts is down a little bit. And

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Speaker 3: then overall the average salary NBA players are actually up well.

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Speaker 1: Revenues are up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, But there's both sides, you can argue. For the

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Speaker 3: second apron, it's just players are taking sacrifices, whether it's

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Speaker 3: they don't have stability so they can trade it more

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Speaker 3: like Dennis Schroeder and the way he's getting traded is insane, right,

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Speaker 3: or any Davis kind of the way he's been traded

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Speaker 3: has been kind of you know, insane. Or if a

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Speaker 3: player can't get his value with another team, he can

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Speaker 3: get stuck, you know, like the John and the communa thing,

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Speaker 3: you know, and that's the Warriors.

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Speaker 1: But why couldn't he have his potential? Was what it is?

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Speaker 3: Like if he was another franchise, would he have been

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Speaker 3: more embraced and given a higher number to ultimately be

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Speaker 3: who he thinks he is and who another team thinks

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Speaker 3: he is?

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Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: And so there's so many different things to speak on

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Speaker 3: the Second Apron, and I think it's important for us

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Speaker 3: to like get the facts now. The one thing I

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Speaker 3: will say, because I know you have a strong platform

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Speaker 3: and a lot of players are hearing from it, is

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Speaker 3: that when you go into CBA negotiations and there's a

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Speaker 3: CBING negotiaint going on with the w right now, I

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Speaker 3: don't know much. I don't know anything about it, so

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Speaker 3: only what we've been reading. But the big thing when

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Speaker 3: negotiations is understanding you.

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Speaker 1: Have to be involved.

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Speaker 3: And everyone's talks about the millionaires versus billionaires.

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Speaker 1: They can wait longer than we can.

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Speaker 3: And so you never want to work stoppish because it's

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Speaker 3: going to affect the game, which affects everybody, right, And

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Speaker 3: you know, being African American men and arguing over millions,

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Speaker 3: it looks a lot different than Caucasian men arguing over billions.

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Speaker 3: It's just society and systematic America. We'll leave it at that.

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Speaker 3: And I want to talk about CJ McCollum. He's been

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Speaker 3: a lot of flak for the Second Apron and I

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Speaker 3: always ask guys, well, what would you want CJ to

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Speaker 3: do differently? Because we know what lockouts are like. We

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Speaker 3: don't want guys to lose money. We reach out to

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Speaker 3: guys all the time. What guys say, I'm busy. I

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Speaker 3: don't want no extra work. You know, you know, I

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Speaker 3: know what you got going on, so I you know,

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Speaker 3: I understand like the best player on the team, he

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Speaker 3: ain't got time for certain things. You exempt like, I

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Speaker 3: don't expect MJ to be at meetings, you know what

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Speaker 3: I'm saying. But when I talk to another guys like,

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Speaker 3: I need you at these meetings. I want to play

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Speaker 3: Call of Duty. I want to go out Michale, I'm

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Speaker 3: Mchil Michel and that's my young boy. I love Michil.

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Speaker 3: I'm like Michal, dog you if you want of the

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Speaker 3: smart players in the league him too.

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Speaker 4: We need you all wait for I don't blame I

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Speaker 4: don't blame you.

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Speaker 3: You but you feel me though, right, you know I'm

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Speaker 3: on Michael all the time. Like Michal, it's only but

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Speaker 3: so many of us that get it. So it's just

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Speaker 3: like that's the responsibility heavy.

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Speaker 4: Is to hit right And speaking of that, sorry, obviously

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Speaker 4: you got guys like Max. Guys, right, guys are making

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Speaker 4: sixty seventy plus, you know, dollars a year. Do you

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Speaker 4: think at a certain point, there's going to be a

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Speaker 4: a tip point of it. Okay, we're not going to

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Speaker 4: be paying these guys eighty five ninety million dollars a

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Speaker 4: year because, like, you know, let's give a space face

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Speaker 4: a lot of egos at that point, a lot of

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Speaker 4: egos are going to be you know, at the table.

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Speaker 4: It's like, am I really gonna pay this dude one

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Speaker 4: hundred million dollars to play basketball?

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Speaker 1: Do you think it was going to be like, uh not? Regulation? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Regulation, yes, regulation will be the word kapa max.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Well, here's a question for y'all because this is this

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Speaker 3: is this is sensitive because I know what I feel,

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Speaker 3: but sitting in this chair as executive director, there's certain

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Speaker 3: things you can't say about players, even if it's the truth.

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Speaker 1: That's why I stop podcasting, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: So, but the question is philosophically, I'm asking y'all define

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Speaker 3: max and how many true maxes are there in the league.

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Speaker 1: There's like tenttra maxes in the league.

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Speaker 5: So based on your answer, how many do you think,

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Speaker 5: I would say, like fifteen to sixteen okay, because I

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Speaker 5: would consider, like obviously you're on a playoff team, the

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Speaker 5: best one to playoff team.

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Speaker 1: I like that. Yeah, considering I'm just saying, but.

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Speaker 3: Every team has a Max guy guy or two.

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Speaker 4: So do you think the crist materia for Max is

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Speaker 4: going to be different?

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Speaker 3: Well, I would think it's up to us, and coming

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Speaker 3: from us as players is a lot stronger than the

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Speaker 3: league and the fiduciary responsibility to the governors. I would

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Speaker 3: rather us put under define that than them define it,

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Speaker 3: because that's where the fighting starts. Now, if we can

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Speaker 3: all get in the room, which is very hard, it's

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Speaker 3: it's easy to get thirty billionaires in a room on

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Speaker 3: the same page on how to make money, then five

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Speaker 3: hundred and twenty, you know, first generation millionaires to get

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Speaker 3: in the room and be on the same page. Because

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Speaker 3: the Eagles right, like you were in a bubble. No, no,

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Speaker 3: you were in a bubble.

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Speaker 1: It was hurt. Oh damn you you saw it. Were

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Speaker 1: you in that meeting? Nope, you mister meeting. The meeting.

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Speaker 3: The meeting was powerful because you got a sense of like,

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Speaker 3: this is how we this is how we work together, Like,

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Speaker 3: come on, we gotta we got to level up, and

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Speaker 3: we applaud us because we did a good job of

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Speaker 3: coming back.

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Speaker 1: The next day and we did a good job.

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Speaker 3: But it was a moment where I was like, all that,

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Speaker 3: this is what they say about crabs in a barrel.

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Speaker 3: Now we overcame it. We did what we got to do,

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Speaker 3: so I will say that, but it was one point

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Speaker 3: I was like, I was just disappointed in us. But

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Speaker 3: if we can define it and then we appropriately provide

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Speaker 3: the wealth for everybody, we're in a good place.

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Speaker 1: But I do know this.

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Speaker 3: It's almost like wrestling where how you have storytelling and narratives,

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Speaker 3: but you really got like five or six guys who

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Speaker 3: drive all the narratives. So you got five guys that

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Speaker 3: make you want to watch thirty teams. If we start

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Speaker 3: thinking about it like that, then it's easier to define

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Speaker 3: what MAX is, or what guys who are the best

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Speaker 3: player in our teams but they're not playoff teams or

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Speaker 3: a guy who has big numbers but it's not as

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Speaker 3: valuable to winning. That's how you start figuring those things out.

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Speaker 3: So it's all systems.

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Speaker 5: And my devil's advocate to that is that there are

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Speaker 5: guys who are on playoff teams right, who are a

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Speaker 5: MAX guy right, and then like say they have a

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Speaker 5: bad year, then they're not a playoff team. Like it's

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Speaker 5: it's a very slippery slope when it comes to that.

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Speaker 5: So like if you can't, there's not going to be

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Speaker 5: a definition of a max player.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be I mean, it is what it is.

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Speaker 5: Like if someone feels like you're worth, is that worth

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Speaker 5: they're going to pay you that?

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Speaker 1: Now? That great point.

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Speaker 3: That's probably the like my business partner always says, this,

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Speaker 3: your value is what someone is willing to pay. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: And that's always just that's a capitalistic mindset that we're

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Speaker 3: supposed to have anyway. But in terms of like the

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Speaker 3: system and how it all works for the greater good

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Speaker 3: of the game. Now I'm asking that question as a

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Speaker 3: rebuttal or the greater good of the game?

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Speaker 1: Does that work? You know? Is our game growing right now? Uh?

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Speaker 1: I think so?

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Speaker 5: So, I would say, I think so. I would say

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Speaker 5: a game is growing globally globally. But when it grows

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Speaker 5: global globally, it's like, then there's more viewership, Then there's

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Speaker 5: more money. If the revenue share gets more and more,

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Speaker 5: and then there's more money in the player's pockets, there's

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Speaker 5: one money in the owner's pockets.

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Speaker 3: But I'm afraid I'm afraid.

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Speaker 1: That we're trying to.

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Speaker 3: Grow it at our detriment, meaning y'all are traveling.

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Speaker 1: Out of this world.

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Speaker 3: I sit in front of my TV, and it's Andre

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Speaker 3: Miller's fault because whenever someone travels on the court, he

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Speaker 3: would travel, and I had this habit. I'll just be

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Speaker 3: sitting watching a game and I'll be like traveling.

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Speaker 1: I'll just yell it.

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Speaker 3: I'll be at games, I'd be like travel and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: oh my bad, I can't. How are we traveling like this?

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Speaker 3: Y'are traveling? Then you pick up your pivot foot. Then

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Speaker 3: there's crab dripple thing. I can crab your will get.

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Speaker 1: Like six steps in.

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Speaker 3: Right and so, but it's for us to grow the

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Speaker 3: game right for more three.

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Speaker 1: Or else, that's what you call it.

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Speaker 5: That's not that's not going to game, but it is

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Speaker 5: to them.

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Speaker 3: It's not to them, it is, though, to who whoever's

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Speaker 3: allowing it, which I'm just gonna blame. I'm the spade

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Speaker 3: of space. I'm blaming the league. It's not because the

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Speaker 3: way league. I'm like, what, what why we come on?

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Speaker 5: If you're gonna say that's growing the game, but like

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Speaker 5: no one else is. The other league is referring the

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Speaker 5: way like calling that stuff the way we're calling it.

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Speaker 3: But the NFL has their version of it, which is

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Speaker 3: you better not touch the quarterback. Now, you know, you

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Speaker 3: say what I'm saying because it's it's like that's the

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Speaker 3: strongest asset to NFL. It's hard to find, uh, a

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Speaker 3: top tier quarterback, Like that's the most important position. If

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Speaker 3: you don't have a quarterback, you cannot win.

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Speaker 5: So then when some people do a certain move and

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Speaker 5: they don't call travel, right, but majority of league doesn't

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Speaker 5: move and it's called travel, why is it called that way?

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Speaker 1: I have no idea. I mean it's similar. People talk

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Speaker 1: about the fouls as well.

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Speaker 2: I mean you saw with Jaylen Brown fly off the

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Speaker 2: handle against OKC, so that's not basketball, you know. But

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Speaker 2: like I think that's just another example like whether for whatever,

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Speaker 2: for better or for worse, they are calling the rules,

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Speaker 2: are the rules. And to your point, if they're set

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Speaker 2: that way and playing that way, it's going to be

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Speaker 2: your advantage.

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Speaker 3: But I think one of what point I want to

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Speaker 3: make is y'all have a louder say than y'all, then

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Speaker 3: y'all know, like competition Committee is is like super dope,

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Speaker 3: Like we sit there and have conversations on how do

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Speaker 3: we make the game better, how do we protect the

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Speaker 3: game and the more player input. And this is what

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Speaker 3: I respect about Adam. And I gotta be careful giving

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Speaker 3: Adam love because then they'll say I'm working for the

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Speaker 3: league and the same way they tell him he's two

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Speaker 3: player centric and that he's not like David Stern. But

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Speaker 3: Adam will listen to a player and be like, okay,

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Speaker 3: and if you guys say that y'all want this for

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Speaker 3: the league and it's better for the league, y'all to experts,

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Speaker 3: y'all playing a cool we'll do it like that's a

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Speaker 3: real thing.

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Speaker 1: That's why I say, just go up to the league

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Speaker 1: and just tell him how you feel.

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Speaker 3: Or you tell us, and then we're like no, no, no,

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Speaker 3: Josh touches such such as. They all want this, let's

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Speaker 3: get it done. And I don't be like, all right,

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Speaker 3: makes sense, cool done. They don't take years like the

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Speaker 3: NC double A Like it'll get done. Everyone says the

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Speaker 3: whistle change in the middle of season last year. Everybody

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Speaker 3: remember that, right, yes, now, no one will admit it. Yes,

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Speaker 3: but we be having conversations like, hey, man, tighten this up, man, like,

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Speaker 3: let's get the competition.

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Speaker 1: It was like out of nowhere. It wasn't a gradual change.

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Speaker 3: No, I can't say it was not a gradual change.

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Speaker 1: It was a change. But Joe Dumars was a strong advocate.

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Speaker 3: I'm not just I don't know if he had anything

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Speaker 3: to do with this, I'm not saying that, but he

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Speaker 3: was a strong advocate. He was excellent in his role

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Speaker 3: with the league. He was a strong advocate in the

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Speaker 3: best games to view from a fan, or the games

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Speaker 3: that are very competitive and if you TICKI tak and

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Speaker 3: there's a whistle every five seconds, like the game can

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Speaker 3: get competitive. You're trying to figure out what to do

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Speaker 3: and what not to do. Get back to hooping. And

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Speaker 3: y'all was hooping if it felt better too, didn't it? Sometimes?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's like, but it's like playoff basketball.

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Speaker 1: I agree, all season. I agree.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, the playoff basketball all season is very very difficult.

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Speaker 3: True, but MJ played it. But MJ he also walked

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Speaker 3: above the court. Every time walked the ball to the court,

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Speaker 3: you got walking off the court in the playoffs. N

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Speaker 3: we damned it. Yeah, winning, he said, he said, yeah, damn, damn, damn, damn.

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Speaker 1: Near all right, I want to I want to make

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Speaker 1: you put that on. Don't edit it up.

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Speaker 6: Cheers.

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