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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff?

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Speaker 2: The podcast that it was in reruns during the holidays,

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Speaker 2: But I bet you'll still like this episode even though

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Speaker 2: I recorded a little while ago, because I think that

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Speaker 2: the way that people look back and think about the

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Speaker 2: old civil rights movement, like, wow, everything was so peaceful

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Speaker 2: all the time, Well it's not true. I mean, some

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Speaker 2: stuff was peaceful, and nonviolence is an important part of

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Speaker 2: political strategy, but it's certainly not the only thing that happened.

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Speaker 2: And so we're going to do a rerun about the

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Speaker 2: armed civil rights movement. I hope you enjoy it. Hello,

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Speaker 2: and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff. It's

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Speaker 2: a podcast. It does what it says in the title.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, and with me today is

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Speaker 2: my guest, Elminique, who is a pop cultural critic and

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Speaker 2: seems to do so much of everything that I have

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Speaker 2: a hard time pinning her down. Joell, how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good.

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Speaker 4: You know, it's a gray morning, but in LA that

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Speaker 4: counts as weather, so I'm really trying to vibe with it.

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Speaker 4: You know, I got my hot tea, I'm ready to

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Speaker 4: go learn about some nice people.

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Speaker 2: Is it below seventy degrees there, it.

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Speaker 4: Is below seventy degrees here. He's got sweaters on. I'm

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Speaker 4: under a blanket currently.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's nice, it's lovely. I'm in the mountains in

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Speaker 2: my heat is broken. Oh no, Margaret, it's okay. I

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Speaker 2: have like six backup heats horses because I'm like that.

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Speaker 3: That's good. That's good.

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Speaker 4: As someone who came from a snowy climate, you need

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Speaker 4: multiple sources of heat at all times just in case.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: No, absolutely, Like my house is like like right now,

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Speaker 2: I'm running electric heat space heaters, and if that breaks,

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Speaker 2: I have a wood burning stove. Like it's it's fine. Yes, anyway, Joe,

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Speaker 2: What's what's your favorite of your many jobs besides being

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Speaker 2: a guest on the Poole.

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Speaker 3: That is a really tough question.

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Speaker 4: Probably like hosting live events is my favorite because it's

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Speaker 4: like all the aspects of performance, but you get to

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Speaker 4: like perform your ultimate self, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: It's just as an extroverted introvert, Like getting to perform

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Speaker 4: all the extrovertedness, you know, for a crowd is a

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Speaker 4: lot of fun and you get to, you know, get

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Speaker 4: their feelings and maybe you make your guest cry, but

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Speaker 4: in like a good way, you know, and like all

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Speaker 4: that energy is really lovely. And then I would say

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Speaker 4: writing after that is definitely a favorite.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Okay, that makes a lot of sense to me.

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Speaker 2: I really like performing and then going and hiding. That's like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, for.

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Speaker 4: Sure afterwards, Please don't talk to me. I was on

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Speaker 4: set recently and we recorded for like four hours straight

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Speaker 4: and then we broke for lunch and I did not

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Speaker 4: leave the set and they're like.

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Speaker 3: Are you hungry out? I's like no, They're like, are

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Speaker 3: you okay?

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Speaker 4: And I was like I just need to decompress and

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Speaker 4: not talk to anyone for whatever long we have until

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Speaker 4: the next take, Like I just cannot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So totally, totally, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. We're also joined as always by our producer Sophie.

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Speaker 5: Hi, Sophie, Hey, Margaret, how are you?

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Speaker 2: Oh wait, that's not Sophie. Is that Sophie. It's Ian.

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Speaker 5: Yes, I'm finally on the podcast.

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Speaker 2: I Yeah. Ian is our audio engineer and also today

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Speaker 2: our producer. How are you doing, Ian?

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Speaker 5: I'm doing pretty good.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's a nice cozy, cool morning, you know, got my

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Speaker 1: sweatshirt on, ready to do some podcasts and all right.

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Speaker 2: So on this show we talk about cool people in history,

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Speaker 2: especially cool movements, cool complicated networks of cool people who

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Speaker 2: actually usually pretty complicated. But this week, well, actually this

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Speaker 2: week's no different. I'm really excited to talk this week

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Speaker 2: about the non violent civil rights movement the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 2: and the sixties in the US South and along the way.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to talk about the people who protected the

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Speaker 2: non violent civil rights movement with the firearms and stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, they won't get violent, but we sure as

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Speaker 4: fuck will. Those are my favorite people.

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Speaker 2: Yep, that is today's It is exactly the people who said, oh,

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Speaker 2: that's great, you're non violent. I go to protect you.

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Speaker 2: I'm not nonviolent.

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Speaker 5: You always need somebody who's ready to do some dirty work.

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Speaker 2: Always, absolutely exactly. And I think that they don't get

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Speaker 2: enough credit. And so we're going to talk about the

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Speaker 2: armed wing of the non violent civil rights movement, the

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Speaker 2: paradox that isn't half as much of a paradox as

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Speaker 2: it might seem. We're going to talk about the Deacons

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Speaker 2: for Defense and Justice, which was a non ideological but

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Speaker 2: well organized collection of black people who defended civil rights campaigners.

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Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the North Carolina branch of

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Speaker 2: the NAACP that armed itself, and we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about all the unaffiliated groups and individuals who relied, often

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Speaker 2: quite effectively on their capacity to defend themselves in the

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Speaker 2: struggle for self determination and all that kind of stuff

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Speaker 2: because we've been doing I mean, as anyone who's listening

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Speaker 2: to the podcast, we've been covering like the Klan a

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Speaker 2: bunch recently and not in the We've been talking about

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Speaker 2: people who fight the Klan, not the.

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Speaker 4: Good people in the clan, but yeah, yeah, people who

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Speaker 4: fought the Klan, I got.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. So you all will be shocked to know this.

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Speaker 2: There's been a concerted effort in the United States of

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Speaker 2: America by white supremacy to disenfranchise black people.

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Speaker 5: You know, you don't say really, yeah, no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I only learned this recently.

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Speaker 5: Never mind.

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Speaker 2: And wherever there's oppression, there's resistance to oppression, which is

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Speaker 2: the core concept of this show. And so I'm going

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Speaker 2: to frame the civil rights movements of the nineteen fifties

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Speaker 2: of the seventies, and the same way that I see

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Speaker 2: it framed by a lot of historians and people who

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Speaker 2: are there at the time, has been kind of made

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Speaker 2: up of two general parts. You've got the sort of

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Speaker 2: civil rights era of the nineteen fifties and sixties with

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Speaker 2: a focus on non violence and sit ins and registration

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Speaker 2: drives kind of most famously for my public school education,

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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King, I have a dream all of that stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then you've got the Black Power era of the

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Speaker 2: late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies, best remembered these

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Speaker 2: days because of the work of the Black Panthers. So

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Speaker 2: that's the classification that I've been presented with is, you know,

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Speaker 2: every dichotomy is false, right, And we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about some of the ways that all these things blur together.

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Speaker 2: But so people talk about it. They talk about the

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Speaker 2: Civil rights era as like pacifist reformism, and the Black

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Speaker 2: Power era as like all armed revolutionaries. More and more

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Speaker 2: people are starting to talk about what people have been

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Speaker 2: talking about a lot of along the way, But more

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Speaker 2: and more and more media is paying attention to the

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Speaker 2: Black Panthers, for example, also had a lot of mutual

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Speaker 2: laid programs and breakfast programs and all of these other

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Speaker 2: things that are part of what made them so dangerous

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Speaker 2: and powerful. Yeah, and one day we're going to get

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Speaker 2: into all that, but today we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: kind of the inverse. We're going to talk about how

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Speaker 2: in the civil rights era it's more complicated than it's

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Speaker 2: sometimes presented.

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Speaker 4: When you guys do the breakfast program for the Black Panthers,

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Speaker 4: have me back, and I'll try to get some stories

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Speaker 4: from my dad, who's a direct beneficiary of that program

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Speaker 4: on the South Side of Chicago when he was growing up.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, no, that would be amazing. Yeah, And that's

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Speaker 2: actually one of the kind of things that's interesting is

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Speaker 2: I keep like, on today's episode, I'll like look through

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Speaker 2: this and I like start writing like so and so was,

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Speaker 2: and then I'm like, wait, no, is uh still alive?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, these people who are fighting in the fifties, sixties, seventies,

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Speaker 2: many of them are still with us, which is fucking cool.

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Speaker 2: So in previous episodes, especially last week's episodes, we talked

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Speaker 2: about that most famous of white supremacist organizations, the ku

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Speaker 2: Klux Klinn, the and we're going to go through the

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Speaker 2: super basics of them, the speed run of these fucking

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Speaker 2: worst people. And well, there's so many worst people in

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Speaker 2: US history, but these are some of the worst people

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Speaker 2: in US history. Okay, so there's like three or four

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Speaker 2: basic distinct phases of the Klin. They were founded because

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Speaker 2: of frat club for piece of shit white Southern racists.

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Speaker 2: In the wake of the Civil War. They decided to

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Speaker 2: rely on raw terror and violence in order to fight

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Speaker 2: for white supremacy after having lost a war. This fell

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Speaker 2: apart in eighteen seventy one because the federal government was like,

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Speaker 2: you actually can't do that, and then white racists figured

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Speaker 2: out a better strategy. Instead of nighttime terror was legal

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Speaker 2: disenfranchisement and the Jim Crow laws that fucked everything up

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Speaker 2: really bad. That's Klan number one, and then you got

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Speaker 2: Clan number two. This is the weird multi level marketing

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Speaker 2: scheme invented in nineteen fifteen by some people who are

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Speaker 2: basically cosplaying the old Clan. It was this huge social

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Speaker 2: club for white Protestants that became the armed wing of

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Speaker 2: the Prohibition movement as well as the white supremacy movement.

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Speaker 2: And they had this whole anti immigrant thing that not

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Speaker 2: only had them fighting against black people, but also Jews

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Speaker 2: and white Catholics and basically immigrants from anywhere. They just

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Speaker 2: fucking hated everyone. Last week we talked about some of

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Speaker 2: the organizations that worked to stop them. They fell apart

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Speaker 2: because like every financial scam, they fell into bitter infighting

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Speaker 2: and disgrace and their property was repossessed and all that shit.

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Speaker 2: By the end of the nineteen thirties or the Begain nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Thirty time time that was I know.

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Speaker 2: That, I know, I want more. Well, we're starting to

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Speaker 2: see all of these modern white supremacist movements fall apart

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Speaker 2: into weird infighting.

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Speaker 3: And it's been really lovely.

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Speaker 4: Every time I get a little update like so and

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Speaker 4: SOEs go into prison, I'm like, yeah, small.

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Speaker 2: Victories totally or the like I wish I had the

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Speaker 2: notes in front of me about this, but there's like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, like ten years ago it like went

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Speaker 2: around the anti fascist thing that some of the Nazi

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Speaker 2: clan member people or whatever, like one of them killed

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Speaker 2: the other because they like there was like some like

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Speaker 2: incestuous like cheating that happened, Like.

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Speaker 4: They're taking themselves down even yes, yeah, all the insurrectionist

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Speaker 4: who posted to Instagram, it's like, oh, you made everybody's

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Speaker 4: job so much easier.

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Speaker 2: I know you, I know. And so that's kind of

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Speaker 2: how the nineteen twenties, clan went down even though there

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Speaker 2: was they were five millions strong fucking peak. Eventually everyone

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Speaker 2: realized that there were a bunch of like just random

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Speaker 2: pieces of shit, and people started distancing themselves from them.

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Speaker 2: But the fucking clan is like a stupid racist hydra.

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Speaker 2: And the third Clan popped back up pretty soon after

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Speaker 2: the second Clan went down, and this time they got

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Speaker 2: back to their roots, which was terrorizing black people in

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Speaker 2: order to maintain white supremacy. And you know, this is

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Speaker 2: kind of back when you people were like really blatant

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Speaker 2: about being white supremacists. Actually, we're getting back there, We're

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Speaker 2: getting back to that point. But they never reached quite

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Speaker 2: the numbers of the Second Klan because they were less

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Speaker 2: of like a popular organization, right, and they were more

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Speaker 2: just like just fucking terrorists, right. They were really die hard.

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Speaker 2: They were decentralized, and they got an awful lot of

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Speaker 2: terrorism done. They also there's like arguments to be made

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Speaker 2: about whether they infiltrated the police or whether they just

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Speaker 2: came out of the police, you know.

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Speaker 4: Mmmmm yeah, yeah, I'm on team the slave catchers into police.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I think I think most people would agree

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Speaker 1: with that.

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Speaker 4: As we just look at their badges, it's who's happening

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Speaker 4: and the current forever police lineage of just you know,

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Speaker 4: active lynching. Yeah, I think they're one in the same.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So third clan has a lot of cops in it,

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Speaker 2: or the cops have a lot of clan in it

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Speaker 2: or whatever. We're just using synonyms. But wherever there's the

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Speaker 2: bad people, there's the people trying to stop the bad people.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to talk about some of those cool people.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to talk today. We're going to talk

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Speaker 2: a lot about some of the nonviolent organizations, right and

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Speaker 2: then on Wednesday we're going to come back and talk

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Speaker 2: more about a lot of the organizations that defended them,

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Speaker 2: even though there was a whole decentralized defense of them

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Speaker 2: that happened before that. And so we're going to talk

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Speaker 2: about two of the major nonviolent organizations today. We're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about CORE and we're going to talk about SNICK.

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Speaker 2: There's like a bunch more than this. SCLC will come

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Speaker 2: into it a lot, the NAACP will come into it

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Speaker 2: a lot. But for what we're going to talk about

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Speaker 2: Core and SNICK kind of where it's at the oldest

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Speaker 2: one of these groups is the Congress of Racial Equality,

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Speaker 2: just founded in nineteen forty two. It grew out of

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Speaker 2: the Christian pacifist movement, especially a group called the Fellowship

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Speaker 2: of Reconciliation. Only about a third of its founders were black.

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Speaker 2: I was founded by almost half women, which for the

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Speaker 2: time is better than some of the other people around.

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Speaker 2: You know, a lot of the founders of this were

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Speaker 2: ministers and of various Christian denominations, and that is actually

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Speaker 2: something that they like. The multi faith getting together, the

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Speaker 2: groups that got together a lot of different faith based

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Speaker 2: organizations to do a lot of good work is like

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Speaker 2: something that I think sometimes is left out of the

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Speaker 2: more radical understandings of all of this history. Basically, Core

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Speaker 2: started as a we like what Gandhi is doing in India,

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Speaker 2: We're going to do that for anti racism in the US.

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Speaker 2: And they got together. They fought against Jim Crow laws,

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Speaker 2: housing discrimination, voting rights, all that stuff. They were pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: They have complicated stuff that we'll get into, but you

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Speaker 2: know everyone does. In nineteen forty seven, Corps sent sixteen people,

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Speaker 2: eight white, eight black on a journey of reconciliation on buses,

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Speaker 2: and this was kind of the first Freedom Ride about

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Speaker 2: fifteen years before the freedom rides became more of a thing.

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Speaker 2: And this first journey was a mix of folks that

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Speaker 2: had socialists, that had religious leaders at Pacifist, it has musicians,

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Speaker 2: it had just like people who wanted the world to

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Speaker 2: be better, who were like, fuck it, let's go do

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Speaker 2: this weird, dangerous thing where the government had just passed

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Speaker 2: a law banning segregation on interstate travel, and so basically

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Speaker 2: they were like, all right, we're going to go test that.

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Speaker 2: We're going to go said people like basically white and

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Speaker 2: black people sitting next to each other on the bus

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Speaker 2: or sometimes the white people sat in the back of

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Speaker 2: the bus and black people sat in the front of

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Speaker 2: the bus. All this shit, and they just basically went

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Speaker 2: around the South, the kind of near South, doing this.

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Speaker 2: It didn't go smoothly. I don't know whether that'll be

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Speaker 2: shocking to hear. It didn't take long before four of

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Speaker 2: them were arrested. I mean, this is okay. This is

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Speaker 2: like one of the things that's so interesting me about

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Speaker 2: this right is like so much of the Civil rights

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Speaker 2: era stuff was basically like the federal government like would

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Speaker 2: pass a law and then people would be like, let's

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Speaker 2: go see if this law is real, and then they

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Speaker 2: would find out that the law is not real because

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Speaker 2: the local police everywhere they go, would you know. So basically,

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Speaker 2: two black men were arrested for not moving to the

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Speaker 2: back of the bus, and two white men were arrested

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Speaker 2: for defending the two black men who would not move

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Speaker 2: to the back of the bus. All four of them

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Speaker 2: ended up on segregated chain gangs. The black men got

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Speaker 2: thirty days and the white men got ninety days. And

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Speaker 2: specifically because the racist judge was so mad at the

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Speaker 2: white people for betraying whiteness.

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Speaker 4: Wow, wow, that is the deep de deep seated hate.

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Speaker 4: Because it's one thing to be like, I hate black

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Speaker 4: people and I punish them more harshly. It's another thing

300
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Speaker 4: to be like and if you're a white person, I'll

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Speaker 4: punish you three times. Is hard because screw you. He's

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Speaker 4: including my agenda, I guess. Wow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like overall, like clearly including in the civil rights movement,

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Speaker 2: Like it was much harder for black folks as part

305
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Speaker 2: of the civil rights movement the wife than the like

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Speaker 2: white allies and stuff. But here and there you would

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Speaker 2: run across this kind of shit where like the clan

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Speaker 2: would go around being like, hey, any white people, if

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Speaker 2: you show up and support this, we're gonna murder you,

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Speaker 2: you know, or or whatever like that. That kind of

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Speaker 2: shit happened a lot. We're gonna get to some of that.

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Speaker 2: So the judge, I'm not going to read the quote

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Speaker 2: of what I literally can't the judge said a lot

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Speaker 2: of racist shit in the sentence scene.

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Speaker 3: But it and I'll do an interpretation of the No.

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Speaker 5: No, I didn't.

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Speaker 2: I didn't even copy and paste it in my script.

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Speaker 2: It's just bad. It's just bad shit, you know.

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Speaker 3: Sure.

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Speaker 2: But in it he specifically called the two white men

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Speaker 2: who I belil leave were not Jewish, referred to them

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Speaker 2: as white Jews from or sorry, referred to them as

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Speaker 2: Jews from New York.

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Speaker 4: Okay, so not even doing his research, just just out

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Speaker 4: here being like if they held the blacks, they must

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Speaker 4: be Jews.

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Speaker 5: Just lumping all that hate together.

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Speaker 2: Just yeah, it's like that, like it's like the coastal

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Speaker 2: elites coming here and ruining everything. You must basically be

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Speaker 2: the Jews from New York and the like Jewish agenda

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Speaker 2: to desegregate the United States. And it was just a

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Speaker 2: slur I think for him, like I don't think he

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Speaker 2: thought they were Jews. I think it's possible, and I

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Speaker 2: couldn't the books I was reading about it didn't like

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Speaker 2: name which of the white people were the people who

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Speaker 2: got arrested. But it's completely possible they were like Christian ministers,

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Speaker 2: you know, so they get arrested. They spent some time

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Speaker 2: on the chain gang. And one thing of note, they

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Speaker 2: intentionally went to the Near South and not the Deep South,

340
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Speaker 2: because basically they were like, if we do this in

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Speaker 2: the Deep South, we're all going to die. And it

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Speaker 2: took a special kind of courage to go to the

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Speaker 2: Deep South and desegregate and enroll voters, and or be

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Speaker 2: from the Deep South and desegregate and enroll voters. And

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Speaker 2: it's a kind of a courage that many of them found,

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Speaker 2: which we'll get to later. One of the black men

347
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Speaker 2: who serve some time on a chain gang is part

348
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Speaker 2: of the result of this journey for desegregation. Was a

349
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Speaker 2: guy I want to take a closer look at because

350
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Speaker 2: he rules, or at least he did a lot of

351
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Speaker 2: really cool stuff. Everyone's complicated. His name was Bayard Rustin.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's like I'm like, yeah, this guy's awesome,

353
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Speaker 2: and you get to like part of the like descriptions

354
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Speaker 2: of him that you find, You're like, oh, well, you know, yeah,

355
00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 2: but like whatever womst amongst it? Like okay, So Bayard

356
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Speaker 2: Rusting he was a black gay Quaker.

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Speaker 3: Amazing.

358
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and this this is this recurring thing on this

359
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Speaker 2: show where somehow Quakers end up in every episode. I've

360
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:57,040
Speaker 2: never done an episode on the Quakers. They're everywhere.

361
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Speaker 4: The Quaker is really rocked with black people, Like whar

362
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Speaker 4: They were like, no, we're not down with this slavery thing,

363
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Speaker 4: and we will help for you where we can't.

364
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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like I keep running across being like and

365
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:13,360
Speaker 2: then the people who organized to get black people out

366
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Speaker 2: of slavery were black people and some white Quakers, you know,

367
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:24,639
Speaker 2: over and over again. So Bayard Rustin he was deeply

368
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Speaker 2: involved in Core from its founding and he was everywhere.

369
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Speaker 2: He did everything mostly from behind the scenes because people

370
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Speaker 2: were afraid that his homosexuality or socialism would make their

371
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Speaker 2: movements look bad. And I want to talk about him

372
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,840
Speaker 2: really quick. He was kicked out of his university for

373
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Speaker 2: organizing a strike. He sang tenor on Broadway in the choir.

374
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 2: He sang spirituals on a ton of records. He joined

375
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Speaker 2: the Communist Party for a little while, and then he

376
00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,760
Speaker 2: realized that Stalin was a fuck, and so he quit

377
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,119
Speaker 2: the Communist Party and he became a socialist. Specifically, he

378
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,480
Speaker 2: was in the Communist Party until the USSR ordered the

379
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 2: Communist Party in the US to stop working for civil

380
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,680
Speaker 2: rights and start working to try and get the US

381
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:06,240
Speaker 2: to join World War two. He organized a march on

382
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,360
Speaker 2: Washington for the desegregation of the armed forces. He went

383
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:11,639
Speaker 2: to California to fight against the racist in prison of

384
00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,080
Speaker 2: the imprisonment of the Japanese during the war. He would like,

385
00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:17,120
Speaker 2: go and try and make sure that people could hold

386
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,000
Speaker 2: onto their property and shit like that while they were

387
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,679
Speaker 2: being taken into the fucking concentration camps that the US had,

388
00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:25,680
Speaker 2: because US is deeply racist. He was arrested nineteen forty

389
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Speaker 2: two for refusing to give up his seat on a

390
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Speaker 2: bus and that was the moment, I mean, he was

391
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Speaker 2: arrested for being black on a bus, and that was

392
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Speaker 2: the moment where he was like, from now on, I'm

393
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Speaker 2: not going to hide the fact that I'm gay. Because

394
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:43,240
Speaker 2: he basically was just like, oh, I'm with the biggots.

395
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Speaker 2: It's hard for me to like totally explain this epiphany

396
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 2: that he had, but he talks about it and I

397
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 2: should have put the quote in and I didn't, And

398
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,640
Speaker 2: he got arrested again and again for basically fighting everything bad.

399
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Speaker 2: He fought against the colonization of India by the British.

400
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,440
Speaker 2: One time restled for being gay. Like one time he

401
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 2: got a rested for rookie up with two dudes in

402
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Speaker 2: a car. So he's clearly I know, yes.

403
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 3: My polyamorous king, I was with that on him.

404
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 4: I don't know if he was about that life, but

405
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 4: if you're doing two dudes in a car at the

406
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Speaker 4: same time, I love that for him, I know.

407
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:21,440
Speaker 2: Not talked about part of the civil rights movement like anyway.

408
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Speaker 2: He co wrote an influential, influential passfist paper in the

409
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Speaker 2: nineteen fifties called Speak Truth the Power, but in the

410
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: end he kept his name off of it. He chose

411
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Speaker 2: to keep his name off of it because he didn't

412
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Speaker 2: want to sexuality discredit the paper. And he worked with

413
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Speaker 2: Martin Luther King Junior. It was probably him that who

414
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: convinced MLKA to stop carrying a handgun for self defense,

415
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Speaker 2: which goes against the spirit of the rest of today's topic.

416
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Speaker 5: But whatever.

417
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Speaker 2: Everyone's different has different ideas. You know. He was heavily

418
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Speaker 2: involved in organizing the nineteen sixty three March on Washington,

419
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Speaker 2: the one with the I Have a Dream speech. He

420
00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,480
Speaker 2: would have been called the director of the March because

421
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Speaker 2: he did all of the director of the March stuff,

422
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 2: but he was a gay socialist, so they didn't want

423
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: to put his name on it. And like the fucking

424
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,960
Speaker 2: right wing dragged up all kinds of shit, just like

425
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:13,200
Speaker 2: the same way that people would.

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Speaker 5: Do it on Twitter now.

427
00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:18,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he actually was like one of the staunchests,

428
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 2: so basically they're like, oh, this communist. He was one

429
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,640
Speaker 2: of the staunchest anti USSR US socialists to the point

430
00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,399
Speaker 2: where he actually kind of verged into some right wing positions,

431
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 2: like he supported the war in Vietnam, for example, because

432
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Speaker 2: he hated the USSR, so he like supported the Cold War.

433
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Speaker 2: This is why I was the beginning where I was like,

434
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Speaker 2: I gets interesting.

435
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,240
Speaker 3: The complex time, and when you're yeah, you know.

436
00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:45,439
Speaker 4: What I mean, Like American wars are off started because like, oh,

437
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 4: someone is doing something terrible, and then we really go

438
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:49,640
Speaker 4: in and do horrible shit, and we're.

439
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 3: Like, what we had to stop. This guy had to

440
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 3: meet the mother that was so oh gosh, Yeah, you're right,

441
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,600
Speaker 3: MESSI Yeah.

442
00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: And so he gets called a conservative socialist, and he's

443
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,679
Speaker 2: the only term I've actually personally run us. Anyone get

444
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 2: called a conservative socialist, and I don't really understand it yet.

445
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:07,359
Speaker 2: Funny in the eighties, as most people would be wont

446
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,399
Speaker 2: to do as an out gay person, he turned to

447
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 2: gay activism in the nineteen eighties. He died in nineteen

448
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: eighty seven, not of HIV AIDS. He died of being old.

449
00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 3: He was born in nineteen twelve.

450
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:24,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, included a good long life, Yeah exactly. He did

451
00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 2: fine anyway, As just an aside, because I find him

452
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 2: really interesting because people don't talk about the gay, polyamorous

453
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:35,639
Speaker 2: who fucking like organize the March on Washington, you know. Anyway,

454
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 2: he was on a chain gang for a while as

455
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,720
Speaker 2: part of his work for CORE. So that's Core. What

456
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,040
Speaker 2: a hero, I know, And I'm sure Core could be

457
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 2: its own two part episode. But they're going to come

458
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,000
Speaker 2: in and out of today of this week's Now you've

459
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: got Snick. Snick is the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, which

460
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 2: is six times more radical than you might guess with

461
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,960
Speaker 2: a name like that. It was black youth formed and

462
00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,359
Speaker 2: black youth led, so didn't have kind of that sort

463
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,960
Speaker 2: of problem that Core actually ended up dealing with fairly

464
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: effectively in the mid to late sixties, where they were

465
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 2: a little bit too white white lead, you know, for

466
00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 2: a lot of a lot of what they're doing and

467
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 2: snick comes out of. In nineteen sixty, there were four

468
00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 2: black students in Greensboro, North Carolina, who were like, you

469
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:25,640
Speaker 2: know what, fuck all this shit, fuck this fucking white

470
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,199
Speaker 2: supremacist society we live in. They were freshmen at the

471
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:32,119
Speaker 2: North Carolina Agricultural and Technical State University, which is an

472
00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,720
Speaker 2: HBCU historically black college or university. One of these freshmen

473
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 2: went and tried to buy a hot dog at the

474
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 2: Greyhound station and he was denied because he was black.

475
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 2: Because the world's full of racism.

476
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,280
Speaker 3: I can't get a hot dog.

477
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,639
Speaker 4: Bro. Yeah, oh my guy heard die here with my

478
00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 4: ancest we had to deal with. I'm like, that is

479
00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 4: exhausting hot with my green American.

480
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 2: Cat, there's all that shit like people talk about like

481
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 2: what my money's no good here or whatever, like, is

482
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 2: like this thing that still happens, Yes, for sure, and

483
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, though, like literally can't buy a fucking hot

484
00:24:07,119 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: dog something so simple.

485
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,080
Speaker 4: We don't want to make your gay wedding cake, even

486
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:11,960
Speaker 4: though our whole business is making cakes.

487
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah, Somewhere there's a heterosexual couple named Sam

488
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:19,959
Speaker 2: and Chris who can't get a wedding cake. You know,

489
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: we're like, what the hell?

490
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 3: I move out of Indiana? Yeah.

491
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 1: Crazy.

492
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 2: So after getting refused service for a hot dog, they

493
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 2: meet up back in one of their dorm rooms and

494
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 2: they're like, all right, what the fuck do we do? Right?

495
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,399
Speaker 2: And there been some sit ins before where people just

496
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: go and show up and be like, you know what,

497
00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 2: fuck this, I'm gonna be here whether you want me

498
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: here or not. Going back to nineteen thirty nine with

499
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: the Alexandria Library sit in, a lot of those cit

500
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 2: ins had been successful, but they've been very scattershot up

501
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: to that point. It'd be like every couple of years

502
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:53,919
Speaker 2: someone would do a sit in. It's an earlier one

503
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:55,880
Speaker 2: that we're gonna talk about later because I'm really good

504
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 2: at chronology. And so the four freshmen they're like, all right,

505
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:01,360
Speaker 2: we're going to do a sit in at the FW

506
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: Woolworth Company's store, which is a big department store that

507
00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 2: also was a lunch counter, and you can go buy

508
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 2: stuff there if you're black, but you can't go to

509
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,160
Speaker 2: the lunch counter if you're black. So they go in,

510
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 2: they asked to be served, and then they refused to

511
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: leave when they were fused service. February first, nineteen sixty

512
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,120
Speaker 2: they ordered coffee and donuts, and they got both criticism

513
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 2: and support from both white and black folks at the store, Like, obviously,

514
00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:26,919
Speaker 2: most of the white people were like, fuck, you were

515
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 2: not serving you. One white woman was like, oh, this

516
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: is great what you're doing, but didn't like do anything

517
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,359
Speaker 2: about it. And some of the black folks were like,

518
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 2: oh please, oh god, this is going to go really badly.

519
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 4: I would not like to be beaten with a police

520
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,520
Speaker 4: baton today. You're making that probability increase.

521
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I get it.

522
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

523
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,879
Speaker 2: They weren't arrested, but they weren't served. They waited until

524
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 2: the store closed, and they left and the store closed,

525
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,200
Speaker 2: and they showed up again the next day with more

526
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,040
Speaker 2: than twenty black students from the university. They were a

527
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,959
Speaker 2: few service, but they weren't arrested. They hung out all

528
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:01,359
Speaker 2: day and did their school work at the store. The

529
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 2: next day they had sixty people, including some high school

530
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 2: students who joined them, and this time some people from

531
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: the fucking clan showed up to keep an eye on

532
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 2: it all or whatever, right, but they didn't do shit

533
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,880
Speaker 2: because there was fucking sixty people there. Plant the clan

534
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 2: is cowards is one of the main takeaways of all

535
00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: this research.

536
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 3: Oh, for sure, you'd have to be.

537
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, no exactly. It's like fascism and it's.

538
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 5: Wear masks and they only like unfair fights, so that

539
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 5: that sounds about right.

540
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, the fact that they only like unfair fights is

541
00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:35,280
Speaker 2: something that we all need to fucking remember. So Day four,

542
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 2: February fourth, there's three hundred students. They fill the entire

543
00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: lunch counter, including and this time a tiny handful of

544
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,880
Speaker 2: some white folks and white women from a nearby university

545
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: show up to support as well. Day five they get

546
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 2: their first real counter protesters, about fifty white men, three

547
00:26:51,359 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 2: of whom were arrested. Day six, they had one thousand

548
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 2: fucking people. They entirely filled the store. Yeah, like shit

549
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 2: snowballs sometimes, you know. They entirely fill the store and

550
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,120
Speaker 2: several nearby other segregated stores. By day eight, the cit

551
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 2: In movement spreads across the South. Within months, there's sit

552
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:15,160
Speaker 2: ins in fifty five different cities, and on July twenty fifth,

553
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty, boycotts had cut their income by a third

554
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 2: and the Woolworth store world all started quietly desegregated.

555
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:28,959
Speaker 4: It's lunch counter, Yes, it's bullying where exactly.

556
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 2: So the students they're like, all right, we should we

557
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: should get organized, right, because that's that's in my mind

558
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:40,199
Speaker 2: where the magic happens is it starts with something that

559
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,159
Speaker 2: is spontaneous and then you figure out how to like

560
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 2: keep that going, and that takes structure an organization.

561
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, when people see power, they are reminded of their own.

562
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,360
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, totally totally, And you need that initial spark

563
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 2: for people to actually see that. So in April nineteen sixty,

564
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 2: there was a conference in Raleigh, North Carolina. The adults

565
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 2: or the like older than students it always is referred

566
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:07,959
Speaker 2: to in history. They're like, the adults said this, and

567
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 2: then the youth said this. And I'm like, these people

568
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,600
Speaker 2: are like twenty, I don't want to call them not adults, you.

569
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,360
Speaker 3: Know, right, right, right, you're right, the young people.

570
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:22,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the older than students helped call for the conference. Specifically,

571
00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 2: it was Martin Luther King Junior's organization, the Southern Christian

572
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:31,640
Speaker 2: Leadership Conference or the SCLC, called for it, but it

573
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: wasn't called for by MLKA. It was called for by

574
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: someone I'm going to get to in a second who

575
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 2: is like my absolute my favorite person that I'm going

576
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 2: to talk about this week. And the SELC they weave

577
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 2: their way throughout this episode, but they're not our focus.

578
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 2: And so the conference was organized by the students, and

579
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: it was organized by one of the most badass women

580
00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 2: to ever live, Ella Baker. Ella Baker, so like the

581
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: people that I'm like pulling aside that I'm really excited

582
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: about are so behind the scenes, Like yeah, it's like

583
00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: their fucking thing. Ella Baker worked with King in the SELC,

584
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 2: but she was basically there to be critical of him, Like,

585
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,720
Speaker 2: as far as I can tell, she was critical of

586
00:29:09,720 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 2: his hierarchical leadership and basically the concept of charismatic leadership

587
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: as the way to run a movement that was like

588
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: her main thing. She was like, that's not the plan.

589
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: So she calls for the conference. She told the assembled students, quote,

590
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,479
Speaker 2: strong people don't need strong leaders. What they need instead

591
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: is organization and to help each other. And they're not

592
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 2: anti leadership, they're anti this, like you know, strong.

593
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 4: Anti to your point, this hierarchical system that's like we

594
00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 4: all follow this one person when we're a community of

595
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 4: people with dope, ideas and capabilities and skills. And what

596
00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 4: is the word I'm looking for?

597
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 3: Not materials resources or people of resources?

598
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 4: And yeah, we can absolutely just go out and accomplish

599
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 4: these goals without needing to be told to do them.

600
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but you know people do need to be told

601
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: to do chi. Well, it's by things capitaliz. Yay, there's

602
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: some ads, and we're back and we're talking about Ella

603
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 2: fucking Baker, who would probably hate being put on a pedestal.

604
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 2: But what is the show but cool people? So I'm

605
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,360
Speaker 2: going to take an aside and talk about Ella Baker

606
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: because she is my favorite cool person this episode. Sorry

607
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 2: everyone else, I love everyone else, but just seriously, like

608
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 2: my like whatever, I will just gush about Ella Baker.

609
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: Very quickly, she she grew up listening to her grandmother

610
00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: or tell stories about slavery. As soon as soon as

611
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 2: she became an activist, like with the NAACP, she started

612
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 2: working for decentralization and against chrismatic leadership and for more

613
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 2: democratic organizational models, and for better inclusion of women within

614
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 2: activist organizations. So in a lot of ways, as far

615
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: as I can tell, like, this is the main person

616
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: I can point to and say, this is what grassroots

617
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 2: activism like, the concept of grassroots activism has always been there, right,

618
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 2: But the person who like worked tirelessly to make the

619
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 2: Civil rights movement grassroots was Ella Baker. And that's my

620
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: own conjecture about her being the inventor of grassroots whatever.

621
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 2: But she traveled through the South and made direct, interpersonal

622
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 2: connections with people. She believed that the purpose of a

623
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: national organization was to support local initiatives and help local

624
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,880
Speaker 2: people help themselves, rather than to like see the local

625
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,800
Speaker 2: people as people to funnel resources from to move upwards

626
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: in a pyramid. You know. She basically said, the movement

627
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 2: made Martin Luther King. It's not that Martin Luther King

628
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 2: made the movement, which doesn't mean that she didn't like

629
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 2: Martin Luther King, you know, just the direction of power

630
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,520
Speaker 2: had to be understood. She constantly worked against infighting in

631
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 2: the civil rights movement, including she fought against red baiting.

632
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: She was like don't toss out the socialists. They've been

633
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 2: here forever. By the end of her life, she actually

634
00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 2: was more openly a socialist, and while she organized nonviolent

635
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 2: direct action, nonviolence was always a strategic choice for her

636
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 2: and not a moral imperative. To quote her biography Joanne

637
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 2: Grant quote, she had no qualms about target practice. The

638
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 2: first organization that she worked with was the Young Negro's

639
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: Cooperative League, which was a collectivist organization working to build

640
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 2: black economic power through cooperativism, which is something that I've

641
00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 2: run across here and there, like Fanny Louhamer also got

642
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,400
Speaker 2: into this stuff later in the sixties and stuff like that,

643
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: and it's really interesting to me, and I'm really looking

644
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 2: forward to do more of a deep dive on cooperativism

645
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 2: and specifically how the US concept of cooperativism was like

646
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,800
Speaker 2: built out of black cooperativism or like, I don't know, whatever,

647
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:47,959
Speaker 2: it's the most whatever, it's fucking cool the one day,

648
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to do a whole episode about that. But

649
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 2: Ella Baker, when she stepped back from the movement, it

650
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,600
Speaker 2: was around the time that the black power stuff in

651
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: the late sixties started to pick up, but it wasn't

652
00:32:58,200 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 2: because she had a problem with that. It was because

653
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: of her health. And she continued to be basically part

654
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 2: of everything. She was part of the Free Angela Davis campaign,

655
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 2: the Puerto Rican independence movement, the anti apartheid movement, all

656
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 2: the while focusing on yeah, right, like just just did everything,

657
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:21,560
Speaker 2: never anything showy. She never like got herself like this

658
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 2: is the speech or this is the martyr or.

659
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 4: You know, this is the core of activism. And it's

660
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 4: something we're absolutely seeing a the activist community, particularly the

661
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 4: black activist community in America today, is very adamant that

662
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 4: celebrity has no space in their movement, and they're very

663
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 4: weary of anybody who comes in and trying to make

664
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 4: a name for themselves, because if the idea is liberation

665
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 4: and equity for everybody, then how can you center yourself, Yeah,

666
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 4: in that biocycically opposite of the end goal. And so

667
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,760
Speaker 4: it's so cool to hear from a people who started that,

668
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 4: you know, and to have that vision before anyone else.

669
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: It's it's a radical concept that people can liberate themselves

670
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: if they're given the tools and if they're educated about

671
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,080
Speaker 4: their surroundings and what's happening.

672
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, no that yeah, exactly. No notes Elebaker like you

673
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 2: know the other guy right, like complicated here and there.

674
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 2: I'm like, Ella Baker. I have everything I've read about

675
00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 2: Ella Baker. I have not found anything negative to say

676
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 2: about Ella Baker.

677
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: You know, she's a dope woman doing dope thing. Yeah.

678
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 2: So she called for this student conference and the SCLC,

679
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 2: which was the organization she used to call for the conference,

680
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 2: they were hoping that the students would become the youth

681
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: wing of their organization. Right. They were like, ah, excellent,

682
00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,480
Speaker 2: these young people are doing something cool. We will bring

683
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 2: them into our organization. And Ella Baker was like, she

684
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 2: gave a keynote speech, and her keynote speech was basically

685
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 2: like you might want to remain atonymous and set your

686
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,640
Speaker 2: own goals and do your own thing. So they did,

687
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:09,960
Speaker 2: and the youth the adults who weren't the older adults,

688
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 2: they formed the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee. It was youth led.

689
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: They had a few adult advisors or whatever. I'm going

690
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,240
Speaker 2: to keep using the lord adult accidentally throughout the script. Yeah,

691
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,279
Speaker 2: Ella Baker was the primary advisor. I've read one thing

692
00:35:24,320 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 2: that claims that the historian Howard Zinn was another one

693
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 2: of their advisors, Wow, and I want to know more

694
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,200
Speaker 2: about it. He wrote a whole book about SNICK, and

695
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: I haven't read it yet, so I can't say too

696
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: much yet. The organizers gave Ella Baker the nickname Fundi,

697
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: which was a Swahili word. To quote the site Afropunk,

698
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 2: the word means to them as relates as to Ela Baker,

699
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,279
Speaker 2: an artisan who has mastered their craft and shares their

700
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,040
Speaker 2: knowledge freely with the community. And so SNICK organized their

701
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 2: asses off. They went directly into the most dangerous parts

702
00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:00,839
Speaker 2: of the South, where many of them were from, although

703
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 2: more of them were urban, going into rural spots in

704
00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 2: the South, which is, as far as I can tell,

705
00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,840
Speaker 2: almost as big of a divide as like North South divide.

706
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 2: The urban rural divide was also very major in terms

707
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: of organizing. SNICK worked together with Core and the NAACP,

708
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 2: but unlike Core and NAACP, there were no membership cards,

709
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: no membership fees, and while Core was more ideologically committed

710
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,600
Speaker 2: to nonviolence, SNICK, even though it was in their name,

711
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:34,879
Speaker 2: was strategically committed to nonviolence, and the field secretaries, which

712
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,680
Speaker 2: is what their organizers were called, had tons of autonomy.

713
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 2: There weren't like a lot of levels of hierarchy. I

714
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,120
Speaker 2: mean there was RIGHT as an organization. They had different

715
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,319
Speaker 2: levels and tiers or whatever. Right, but like overall, the

716
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: field organizers, their field secretaries were the main thing. They

717
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 2: had a lot of autonomy. And later Snick gets involved

718
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,320
Speaker 2: in like everything, they get part of the broader left

719
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: in the late six part of the feminist movement, anti

720
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 2: war movement, and there also we'll get to this later,

721
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 2: the crucible from which the modern conception of black power

722
00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 2: was formed. But we're not here just to talk about Snick.

723
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 2: We're going to talk about the delicate and beautiful balance

724
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:17,280
Speaker 2: between the non violence civil rights movement and the people

725
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 2: willing to use violence to defend the individuals within that movement.

726
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:23,279
Speaker 2: So we're going to talk about that. The first thing

727
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: you got to understand is that in the Deep South,

728
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 2: especially in rural areas, the gun issue was a settled issue.

729
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 2: Black people owned guns, and they use them to defend

730
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 2: themselves against and others against what white violence. The main

731
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,600
Speaker 2: book that I'm referencing a lot throughout this is a

732
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: twenty fourteen book by Charles E. Cobb Junior, and the

733
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: book is called This Nonviolent Stuff will get you killed.

734
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: How guns made the civil rights movement possible. And this

735
00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 2: book fucking rules. It's not this like called arms right.

736
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: He like very specifically talks about how he's talking about

737
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: the context of the rural South in the nineteen in sixties,

738
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: and it's readable, it's insightful. This is like, literally, if

739
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:07,720
Speaker 2: I could just pivot. This is not an actual ad pivot,

740
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: but just like, seriously, this book rules. It's one of

741
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 2: the best books I've ever read for this research. He

742
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: was there. Charles Cobb was a field secretary for SNICK

743
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 2: from nineteen sixty two to nineteen sixty seven, and the

744
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,960
Speaker 2: premise of the book, to quote him, is that the

745
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 2: use of guns for self defense in the non violence

746
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,280
Speaker 2: civil rights movement was necessary and vital to the movement's survival.

747
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 2: Writing about his own experiences, he said, quote SNICK was

748
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 2: unusual and placing its field secretaries in rural Southern communities

749
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 2: to work from the bottom up instead of the top down.

750
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 2: Living among the downtrodden black men and women of the

751
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: Deep South, I underwent a subtle conversion the principles and

752
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: illusions I had brought with me of nonviolence, of the

753
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 2: uniformity of the Southern Black experience were shaped by the

754
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 2: men and women I encountered there. We and Snick were

755
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 2: radicalized by working with people in their homes and communities

756
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:56,839
Speaker 2: much more than by ideology.

757
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 4: It's probably practically living under the boot of oppression made

758
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 4: you more active in your desire to liberate the people. Wow,

759
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 4: I imagine, imagine in other words, leave your guilded cages, y'all. Yeah, yeah,

760
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 4: it's it's for sure different, particularly I think in the

761
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 4: Deep South at that time. My dad talks about he

762
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 4: his family came up to Chicago during the Great Mississipi Migration,

763
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,319
Speaker 4: which is a time period post slavery when a lot

764
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 4: of black people moved from the South to the North.

765
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: But he would go back to Alabama to visit his

766
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 4: great grandmother who still lived in a slave cabin where

767
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:36,720
Speaker 4: she had been freed.

768
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 3: Like she was freed, they weren't using it. She just

769
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: stayed on the land.

770
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,680
Speaker 4: And I think you know, a lot of people did,

771
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,680
Speaker 4: which meant you're looking at dirt floors, no inner plumbing.

772
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:50,480
Speaker 4: You're restricted to what kinds of jobs you can have

773
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,239
Speaker 4: in the South under Jim Crow. So you're seeing a

774
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 4: lot of people like either being porters or anning chicken

775
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 4: and so like it's a and and then because you know,

776
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 4: if you know, and the rules set around specific jobs,

777
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:03,919
Speaker 4: that's where we got like you can be making two

778
00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 4: dollars an hour as a waitress, and so there's like

779
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 4: a lot of financial restrictions. And I think we saw

780
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 4: you know, I can only imagine that if you were

781
00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:16,399
Speaker 4: living there during that time, like your instinct would be like, oh, immediately,

782
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:19,560
Speaker 4: these people need access to better rights, like this is insane.

783
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, totally. And like and there's this thing that

784
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:28,959
Speaker 2: also happens right where like people sometimes like go out

785
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:31,439
Speaker 2: into a community and he's a he's a black man,

786
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,400
Speaker 2: but he's from an urban environment going out into a

787
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: rural environment, you know, and like coming with an ideology, right,

788
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,400
Speaker 2: and then immediately being like instead of like educating these

789
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 2: these like you know, ignorant rural people, instead being like, oh,

790
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 2: they know what's up and I should learn from them.

791
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 2: And that was like the process that seemed to happen

792
00:40:55,080 --> 00:41:00,200
Speaker 2: with snick Field organizers, and that absolutely ties into how

793
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,560
Speaker 2: the whole thing transformed and the whole push towards black

794
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 2: power and the the change within the civil rights movements

795
00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,399
Speaker 2: as far as I can tell and as far as

796
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 2: like I've read. And yeah, I I met Charles Cobb

797
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,760
Speaker 2: briefly in North Carolina because he did a talk about

798
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,080
Speaker 2: the book, and I I went because that day i'd

799
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,719
Speaker 2: just been whatever the Nazis know, they doxed me. I'd

800
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 2: just been docks by Nazis they called themselves, don't call

801
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 2: us Nazis, were neo Confederates. I'd just been like docks

802
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 2: by neo confederates who had like told me, like showed

803
00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: me pictures of my family and told me they were

804
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: going to burn my house down and shit.

805
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,160
Speaker 3: And he sound like Nazis.

806
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,360
Speaker 4: I just want to know you yourself, Needo conservatives, you

807
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 4: should move in a different direction than the Nazis because

808
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 4: that sounds like class a Nazi bullshit.

809
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 2: Oh, Neo Confederates. Sorry, I might as miss stake. Yeah,

810
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 2: I said no, But I mean, it's like whatever, Neo

811
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:56,440
Speaker 2: Confederate and Nazi, Like, I don't care whether you call

812
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:59,360
Speaker 2: yourself an American Nazi or German Nazi, you're fucking Nazi.

813
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 2: Like fuck you. They had like just doxed me and

814
00:42:02,200 --> 00:42:05,200
Speaker 2: some other some other folks. And so I bought a

815
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,919
Speaker 2: rifle and I never owned a firearm before. I didn't

816
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 2: particularly grow up around firearms, and like, I come from

817
00:42:12,160 --> 00:42:14,239
Speaker 2: a sort of military family, but with like a liberal bent,

818
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 2: you know. And and so I told him, I was like, hey,

819
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: like your talk was really interesting and meaningful to me

820
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 2: because I I just went and bought a rifle today.

821
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 2: And he was like, well, how do you How do

822
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 2: you feel about that? I was like, I feel really

823
00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:30,879
Speaker 2: mixed about it, and he was like, that makes sense, you.

824
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 5: Know for sure?

825
00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:36,239
Speaker 2: And and Mike, I mostly just like talking about how

826
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,000
Speaker 2: much I like this guy in this book. But my

827
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 2: copy of the book is signed from my generation to yours,

828
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 2: and I think about it a lot.

829
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 3: Ah, I'm gonna cry.

830
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 4: That's really beautiful, And especially for somebody who's doing, you know,

831
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:51,240
Speaker 4: such key and important work and understands intimately the struggle.

832
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:54,759
Speaker 4: Like what a blessing to sort of be given a yeah,

833
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 4: you know, like a passing of the baton.

834
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 3: That's wonderful.

835
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh. To quote more from this, nonviolent stuff will

836
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: get you killed. The rural black culture that Snickfield secretaries

837
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,879
Speaker 2: encountered in the Deep South had long accepted arm self

838
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,080
Speaker 2: defense as legitimate, although local black people could be uncertain

839
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 2: about when and how best to employ it. The idea

840
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: itself was not subject to debate. Guns were common in

841
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: southern households, used not only for hunting but for protection

842
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,800
Speaker 2: from white violence. The idea of removing guns from the

843
00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 2: equation was, for the vast majority of rural Southern blacks

844
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 2: simply a non issue. Later, I'm going to talk about

845
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:31,839
Speaker 2: a bunch of the organized groups that defended the non

846
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,799
Speaker 2: violence movement, and those groups matter, but I think it's

847
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,280
Speaker 2: also worth understanding where they come from. Which what didn't

848
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 2: just like show up like one person wasn't suddenly like,

849
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 2: I've an idea, we can defend ourselves, right. It was

850
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 2: built on a bedrock of people just doing it themselves.

851
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: Charles Cobb describes, for example, a seventy year old woman

852
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:55,400
Speaker 2: in Lee County, Georgia named Mama Dolly. She ran a farm,

853
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 2: and I'm under the impression maybe she was a local midwife,

854
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 2: and a quote a student organizer stayed with her. What

855
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: Snick would do is I'd send people down to like

856
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:05,239
Speaker 2: and Core would do is like people would leave and

857
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,840
Speaker 2: go into these rural environments and register people to vote

858
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:12,160
Speaker 2: and possibly help organize desegregation and stuff like that. Right,

859
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 2: and they would stay with black families who would defend them.

860
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:20,680
Speaker 2: So to quote a student organizer, Mama Dolly had this

861
00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,319
Speaker 2: big shotgun. I tried to talk her out of guarding me,

862
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 2: but she said, Baby, I brought a lot of these

863
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:27,399
Speaker 2: white folks into this world, and I'll take them out

864
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:28,400
Speaker 2: of this world if I have to.

865
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 5: Come on. Mama, Yes, I know.

866
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 2: That's why I think she was probably a midwife. Sometimes,

867
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 2: no matter what I said, this is to the quote. Sometimes,

868
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: no matter what I said, she would sit in my

869
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,280
Speaker 2: bedroom window leg propped up with that big old gun.

870
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 2: If you know how to handle it, way better than

871
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 2: I did. In fact, I knew nothing about no shotgun.

872
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:52,560
Speaker 2: And everything I've read is story after story of rural

873
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: farmers defending organizers, most of whom were black urban Southerners,

874
00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 2: some of whom were you know, white urban Southerners, people

875
00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:01,720
Speaker 2: from all over in different backgrounds.

876
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 3: Right.

877
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: But because frankly, defending these people as part of hospitality,

878
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 2: and of course the supremacists were really fucking mad about snick,

879
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 2: and so the bravery of these organizers matters, But the

880
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: bravery of the people who took them in is at

881
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 2: least as much. Right because the organizer might leave, but that.

882
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 4: Family wherever and everyone knows you in all your business,

883
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,120
Speaker 4: and I know that some of them like lost business.

884
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

885
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 4: If you're, yeah, a black person providing a service that

886
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 4: is available to white people, like I could put your

887
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:36,200
Speaker 4: whole livelihood in danger.

888
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:36,840
Speaker 3: That's wild.

889
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 2: Yeah. And the Klan was during this time running around

890
00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 2: killing people, burning and bombing buildings, murdering organizers and like,

891
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:50,359
Speaker 2: people would go register to vote and they would get

892
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:52,840
Speaker 2: laughed out of the room by clerks or one case,

893
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: like in I think it was Mississippi, Like literally someone

894
00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:57,320
Speaker 2: just got pistol whipped because they were like, what do

895
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,359
Speaker 2: you mean I can't register to vote. I pulled out

896
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,080
Speaker 2: a gunhead hit the woman in the head. But you

897
00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:04,640
Speaker 2: know what won't hit you in the head except with

898
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: really good deals.

899
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:13,200
Speaker 5: No potato, that's right.

900
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, okay, So so Joelle, one of the things

901
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:16,400
Speaker 2: that we try and do on the show is we

902
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 2: try to be sponsored only by very good things, right,

903
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: and so our perennial sponsor is the concept of potatoes.

904
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: They're good for you, you can eat them cooked when you

905
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,200
Speaker 2: cook them first. They're cheap. And I'm wondering if you

906
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 2: have any anything that you would like to be sponsored by.

907
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 2: We've also been sponsored by sleeping dogs.

908
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 5: Like I think good Comb.

909
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, good Comb was good.

910
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 4: The laughter of children after children is great. I want

911
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:49,720
Speaker 4: to be sponsored by a rainy day with a good book.

912
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, favorite spaith to live in.

913
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 3: Oh my god, if I could eat. That's what heaven

914
00:46:57,040 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 3: looks like to me.

915
00:46:57,560 --> 00:47:01,439
Speaker 4: It's constantly raining, and like there's good books and hot

916
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 4: tea everywhere.

917
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 3: He never goes cold.

918
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 2: All right, that is what we are sponsored by today,

919
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 2: and possibly some other stuff that you'll hear about in

920
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: a second. Okay, and we are back, and I'm going

921
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 2: to mostly the like atrocities of what people were facing

922
00:47:22,400 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 2: have been told at great length, and so I don't

923
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 2: want to like specifically go through like every time that

924
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 2: people got murdered or whatever, but one of them that

925
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 2: impacts all of this a lot. In Mississippi, in September

926
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one, a local black farmer and NAACP leader

927
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:42,640
Speaker 2: who was affiliated with SNICK. His name is Herbert Lee.

928
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 2: He was killed in broad daylight in front of a

929
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:49,720
Speaker 2: dozen people. And he got killed by his childhood friend

930
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:52,759
Speaker 2: who was a white man, an a racist who it was

931
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:55,920
Speaker 2: like neighbors who had just like decided should had gone

932
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 2: too far, and he'd basically been like, Hey, come over here,

933
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you. And then herbertly, Uh,

934
00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 2: the murderer, Yeah, the murderer was acquitted that afternoon by

935
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 2: an all white jury.

936
00:48:08,880 --> 00:48:09,600
Speaker 5: What whoa?

937
00:48:10,960 --> 00:48:15,880
Speaker 2: And no one none of the witnesses felt safe coming forward.

938
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:20,360
Speaker 2: Right later, a black witness of the crime, Luis Allen,

939
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 2: was murdered on his own property before he could testify.

940
00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 2: And that murderer was almost certainly done by the local

941
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 2: county sheriff. And like, this is an example story, not

942
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 2: the thing that changed everything. This is what people like, Basically,

943
00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:38,960
Speaker 2: a lot of the people that I'm reading about were

944
00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 2: refer to what's happening as a war, and they're like,

945
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 2: I am in a war against white supremacy. And that's

946
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,400
Speaker 2: that's some of the context, you know. So so SNICK

947
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:54,959
Speaker 2: organizers themselves, they didn't go armed because it would break

948
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:57,600
Speaker 2: the spell of what they were doing, and nonviolent organizing

949
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 2: was a very effective strategy. And and but especially in Mississippi,

950
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:08,279
Speaker 2: their local defenders absolutely went armed. The whole thing was

951
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 2: massively debated within the movement, but overall a lot of

952
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,920
Speaker 2: the debates against this sort of protection were happening far away.

953
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 2: You know, they were the movement leaders who weren't in

954
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 2: the shit. So I like telling stories about the clan losing.

955
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:27,880
Speaker 2: So I'm going to tell some stories about the Klan losing.

956
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:29,320
Speaker 3: Oh Yes.

957
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 2: In nineteen sixty five, Baker County, Georgia, there was a

958
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,200
Speaker 2: seventeen year old young woman named Shirley Miller, who, alongside

959
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,480
Speaker 2: other folks, integrated the local high school. The Klan burned

960
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,279
Speaker 2: across in her yard. More than a dozen of the

961
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: focks showed up to, you know, scare her and possibly

962
00:49:45,640 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 2: do worse. So Shirley's mother called her neighbors, who poured

963
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,800
Speaker 2: in armed and took aim at the clansmen, and the

964
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:56,879
Speaker 2: klansmen literally begged for their life in order to leave.

965
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,040
Speaker 3: Recording of bad.

966
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,880
Speaker 4: Could you imagine a recording of that, just playing it

967
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 4: back and be like, yes, you assholes, that's for threatening

968
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 4: a high school or you jerks.

969
00:50:08,120 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. In nineteen sixty four, some folks tried to register

970
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:14,839
Speaker 2: to vote and were turned away. Missus Brewer's sons were

971
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 2: turned away, so the clan showed up at the Brewer

972
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 2: house to teach her and her kids a lesson about

973
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: trying to vote. So Jannie Brewer, missus Brewer, she armed

974
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 2: up her kids, and she armed up her grandkids, and

975
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: she armed up the Snick organizers who were supposedly not

976
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 2: supposed touch guns, and then made a bunch of Molotov cocktails.

977
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 2: Oh to quote Charles Cobb again. As the sheriff and

978
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,840
Speaker 2: the truckload of klansmen approached the farmhouse, the Brewer family

979
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:44,840
Speaker 2: members and some of the Snick workers were still in

980
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:47,960
Speaker 2: the fields with rifles and shotguns. Before the raiders reached

981
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: the house, someone shone a floodlight on them, others fired

982
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,239
Speaker 2: into the air. Brewer stood on the front porch ready

983
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:58,240
Speaker 2: to hurl a Molotov cocktail. Everyone, including the sheriff, fled.

984
00:50:58,719 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 2: Night riders never returned to the Brewer farm.

985
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 3: Come through, fuck around and find out, you real.

986
00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 2: What the main thing that I keep finding And I

987
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,479
Speaker 2: read a book that has a bias, right to be clear,

988
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:16,319
Speaker 2: and I've read other stuff, and I have my own

989
00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 2: bias and all of that, But one of the things

990
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 2: that kept happening was the arguments for non violence. Part

991
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 2: of the arguments for non violence is this is a

992
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: very effective strategy in the nitty gritty, and I think

993
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 2: that's true. But part of the argument was if we

994
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:35,400
Speaker 2: arm up, they'll kill us, all right, And what the

995
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,279
Speaker 2: book that you know, this non violence stuff get you

996
00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: killed and anything else that I've read doesn't carry that out,

997
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:45,400
Speaker 2: at least in this context and time that I'm talking about.

998
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,480
Speaker 2: What would happen is the clan shows up, someone takes

999
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 2: a fucking warning shot and they're like, oh god, those

1000
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,439
Speaker 2: people have guns, even though the clan is guns too,

1001
00:51:53,719 --> 00:51:56,879
Speaker 2: and they never come back. That happens more times than

1002
00:51:56,880 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: not in what I have read. I'm not trying to

1003
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 2: make a blanket stay.

1004
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:02,279
Speaker 4: Feel like no, no, no, no no, but I hear what

1005
00:52:02,320 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 4: you're saying. I think the non violent aspect was necessary

1006
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 4: to change liberal white people's minds, right, because the argument

1007
00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 4: was always like, oh well not yet. People need time

1008
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,000
Speaker 4: to adjust, so your liberty has to wait. But then also,

1009
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 4: if you react violently to whatever violence is being hurled

1010
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 4: at you, suddenly you're still the danger, which is a

1011
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 4: confusing mind game to play with a person. But there

1012
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:29,840
Speaker 4: they were, and so I think that that was a

1013
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 4: you know, and similar to Gandhi, because I'm sure there

1014
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,440
Speaker 4: were people in India also being like no, fuck, you

1015
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 4: get off my land of British people.

1016
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: Yes, totally, what are you doing?

1017
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 4: But in order to make the world care, you have

1018
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 4: to be like, now, I didn't do anything to defend

1019
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:45,839
Speaker 4: myself and these guys were total jerks. Still I didn't

1020
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 4: do anything to piss them off. I didn't do anything

1021
00:52:47,480 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 4: to defend myself, and yet here they still come. And

1022
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 4: that's when people can sort of be like, oh, well,

1023
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 4: now I see that you're clearly a monster. There's no

1024
00:52:54,560 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 4: way you can't really twist that.

1025
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, which is exhausting.

1026
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,719
Speaker 3: It's an exhausting gauntlet to ask people to run through.

1027
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,000
Speaker 3: But yeah, what else can you do?

1028
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:03,439
Speaker 5: Yeah?

1029
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 2: I mean yeah, yeah, Like I don't know, you know,

1030
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:11,319
Speaker 2: like I'm not. It's so fucking complicated, and it's something

1031
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,160
Speaker 2: that every movement needs to determine for itself, you know.

1032
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 2: And that is actually one of the things that comes

1033
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: up in the book. And I don't know if I

1034
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,480
Speaker 2: wrote in the script, maybe you hear me talk about later.

1035
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 2: A higher percentage. It was not universal. There were white

1036
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: people who were totally fine with violence, and there were

1037
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:29,200
Speaker 2: black people who totally fine with non violence. But a

1038
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:32,160
Speaker 2: higher percentage of the organizers who were coming from out

1039
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:35,760
Speaker 2: who were white, were more ideologically committed to non violence,

1040
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:39,000
Speaker 2: whereas more of the black organizers were strategically committed to

1041
00:53:39,040 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 2: non violence.

1042
00:53:40,200 --> 00:53:43,040
Speaker 3: I'm sure, yeah, and.

1043
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 2: That matters so much, especially when you're talking about like, look,

1044
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:51,719
Speaker 2: I clearly I'm a white person talking about this history

1045
00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 2: because I think it matters. But like, white people shouldn't

1046
00:53:54,719 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 2: fucking have anything to do with saying what should happen?

1047
00:53:57,960 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: Like that doesn't make any fucking sense.

1048
00:53:59,760 --> 00:54:01,880
Speaker 4: You know, they still weren't at a place where they

1049
00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:06,520
Speaker 4: were ready to recognize the power structure and its entirety, right,

1050
00:54:06,640 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 4: because if they were, then you would never ask people

1051
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 4: who were constantly being threatened to be non violent. But

1052
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:16,360
Speaker 4: because they couldn't acknowledge, like, oh, we as white people,

1053
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,560
Speaker 4: also hold power despite the fact that we want to

1054
00:54:18,600 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 4: stand with you, So we're going to ask you to

1055
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 4: not only be non violent, but it's a way for

1056
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:27,040
Speaker 4: us to not have to become violent in defenses. Yeah,

1057
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 4: I can stand with you and say, oh no, I

1058
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:31,399
Speaker 4: was there. I linked arms, Like, but did you take

1059
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,400
Speaker 4: up arms which would have been much more helpful in

1060
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:38,280
Speaker 4: protecting these bodies you claim to care about? Like it's again,

1061
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 4: it's a total mind fuck and a completely ridiculous gauntlet

1062
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 4: to ask anyone to have to run through. But I

1063
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:48,040
Speaker 4: think at the time it was the only way to

1064
00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 4: move the needle, and therefore necessary.

1065
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 3: I do totally hope that we've.

1066
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,799
Speaker 4: Moved past that in some I don't think from on

1067
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,440
Speaker 4: a government level we have, but I think for a

1068
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 4: very person on an individual level, I hope that we

1069
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 4: as a society are moving past this idea that passivism off,

1070
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 4: you know, is the best reaction to violence.

1071
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 3: Clearly, not right, clearly.

1072
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 2: Not yeah, exactly, and then it even strategic non violence

1073
00:55:16,960 --> 00:55:19,720
Speaker 2: apparently works really well paired with self defense.

1074
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,359
Speaker 3: You know, you know, you know, but I don't want

1075
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 3: to hurt you.

1076
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,120
Speaker 4: I don't want to you know, bomb or hurt anybody

1077
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 4: or takes someone's you know, friend, parent, whatever away from them.

1078
00:55:31,160 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 3: But don't fuck with me. Yeah, I think that's a

1079
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:35,799
Speaker 3: very reasonable line to draw.

1080
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, Or like, don't fuck with those non violent activists, you.

1081
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:41,520
Speaker 3: Know, also, don't fuck with them, they're just here.

1082
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:42,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1083
00:55:42,560 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 3: Absolutely so.

1084
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,839
Speaker 2: Another one of these stories, an indigenous activist named Hunter

1085
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,560
Speaker 2: Bear Salter was a professor at an HBCU in Mississippi

1086
00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 2: called Tugala Southern Christian College, and he spent his time

1087
00:55:58,000 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 2: advising students who are sitting at lunch counter and you know,

1088
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:04,040
Speaker 2: teaching and all that stuff. And he traveled armed everywhere

1089
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 2: he went, and in nineteen ninety four he said the

1090
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 2: fact that he was known to be armed is the

1091
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:11,040
Speaker 2: reason he survived the era. And yeah, I have no

1092
00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 2: particular doubt about that. And the student the school itself

1093
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 2: was constantly being attacked by night riders because it was

1094
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 2: an HBCU until the school formed armed groups of students

1095
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:24,040
Speaker 2: and faculty to keep watch, and when word got out

1096
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 2: about that, the attacks dropped significantly. So self defense was

1097
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:31,359
Speaker 2: a decentralized, impromptu and ever present part of the non

1098
00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:36,120
Speaker 2: violence movement until it was organized, which we'll talk about

1099
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 2: in part two. But first let's talk about you, Joelle

1100
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:45,759
Speaker 2: and the things you do and the places people can

1101
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 2: find the things you do.

1102
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 4: Yes, I am on all the social media sites, but

1103
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 4: mostly Hive nowadays actu amoni. It's j O E l

1104
00:56:55,960 --> 00:57:00,399
Speaker 4: l E m O n I q u E. I'm

1105
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 4: the EP of Fake Doctor's Real Friends. If you have

1106
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:06,040
Speaker 4: any desire to come check out a Scrubs rewatch podcast.

1107
00:57:06,160 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 4: Also have a New Girl rewatch podcast. Called Welcome to

1108
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 4: our show that I adore, and then you check out

1109
00:57:13,280 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 4: my writing all over the place. I'm doing a lot

1110
00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 4: of work for The Rap Right Now and Polygon, and

1111
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:25,280
Speaker 4: then I'm frequently at NPR's pop Culture Happy Hour. Yeah,

1112
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 4: and I'm hoping to bring a couple of new shows

1113
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 4: to you guys next year. So just follow me on

1114
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 4: the socials and you'll hear all about it.

1115
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:35,000
Speaker 2: Awesome. I and you got anything you want to plug?

1116
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:38,600
Speaker 5: Isn't there a live stream coming up?

1117
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:38,880
Speaker 4: Oh?

1118
00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:41,600
Speaker 5: There is a life Actually I think it's this week.

1119
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's this week. As you listen to this, if

1120
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:48,640
Speaker 2: you want to hear me learn about something bad from

1121
00:57:48,760 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: Robert Evans, the host of Behind the Bastards, you can

1122
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 2: listen to the live stream me hearing about bad things.

1123
00:57:57,040 --> 00:57:58,800
Speaker 2: They don't tell me ahead of time what the bad

1124
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:02,440
Speaker 2: thing is, so you can watch me react in horror

1125
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 2: to the world. You can get tickets by googling.

1126
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:10,400
Speaker 3: Sounds like an amazing show. I'm really excited.

1127
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:11,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1128
00:58:11,200 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: The link to get tickets is a momenthouse dot co

1129
00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:16,800
Speaker 1: slash bTB. I think when you buy a ticket, you

1130
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,240
Speaker 1: can also submit question for the Q and A. Make

1131
00:58:19,280 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 1: sure you get those in asap before the event this weekend.

1132
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:26,080
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, I think that's all I've got.

1133
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 2: All right, Well, we will see you all on Wednesday. Farewell.

1134
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 2: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1135
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,360
Speaker 2: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts and cool Zone Media,

1136
00:58:42,520 --> 00:58:45,800
Speaker 2: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1137
00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:49,240
Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1138
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 2: your podcasts.