1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: Dear listener. Today it's a very special and historic day. 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: Americans are electing the next President of the United States 3 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 1: and what is perhaps the most important election of this generation, 4 00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: and certainly probably the most important election I've ever lived through. 5 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: But today, in many ways, is a celebration of what 6 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: it means to be an American citizen, with all of 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: the rights and responsibilities that come with that. And we 8 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: have to recognize the power that we have right now, 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: especially Latinos and Latinas, to determine the future of this country. 10 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: But there are so many Americans who won't be able 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 1: to vote today, and author Cadila Cornejo Jevi Cencio is 12 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: one of them. She writes about people just like her 13 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: in her new book, The Undocumented Americans. The book has 14 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: gathered a lot of attention because of its fresh voice 15 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: and narrative, and it is nominated now for the National 16 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: Book Award. I sat down with Godla this past spring 17 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,120 Speaker 1: to talk about what it means to be an American 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: and what citizenship represents today in the United States. 19 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 2: I say in the book that I would rather swallow 20 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: a razor blade than try to change the mind of 21 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,039 Speaker 2: a xenophobe and I sincerely do not do that. If 22 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: someone brings up a question to me and is like, 23 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 2: why does an immigrant deserve citizenship? 24 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 3: I simply do not answer. That is not my job 25 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 3: as an artist. 26 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 4: From Futuro Media. It's let you know usay. 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Posa Today author Carla Cornejo Viebi Cincio, 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 1: whose debut book The Undocumented Americans redefines the great American 29 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 1: novel and what it takes to be a perfect immigrants 30 00:01:51,920 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: child Godla was one and a half years old. Her 31 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: parents left her in their native Ecuador in the care 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: of family members while they emigrated to New York City. 33 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: The plan was that they would work for one year 34 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: to save up enough money to pay off their debt, 35 00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: and then they'd come home, but barely making ends meet. 36 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: One year turned into four, so they decided to have 37 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,120 Speaker 1: Godla join them in their new home. 38 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 4: She was just about to turn five years old. 39 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: Growing up away from her parents would have a permanent 40 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 1: effect on Carla and shape her and her work to 41 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 1: this very day. 42 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,519 Speaker 2: Therapist staff of therapist told me I had attachment issues 43 00:02:41,880 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: and that my mental illnesses were related to my childhood. 44 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 1: Godla is a DACA recipient, and at least on paper, 45 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 1: she's the realization of the American dream for immigrant parents. 46 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: She went to Harvard. 47 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: Now she's pursuing a PhD at Yale, But the constant 48 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: pressure to be the perfect, high achieving, hard working child 49 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: has oftentimes been a mental health nightmare for Godla. 50 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: Once you hear your parents come home and their body 51 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 2: is wrecked at the end of the day, and you 52 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 2: know they've earned like little, very little money, and they 53 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: look at you and they say, I do this for 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: you. You can't forget that for the rest of your life, 55 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: and you're bound to them. 56 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: I sat down with Godla to talk about intergenerational wounds, 57 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 1: mental health in the LATINX community, and how we can 58 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: take care of each other. Godlac Cornejo bi Avicencio, Welcome 59 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: to Latino, USA. 60 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. 61 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: So you're writing this book as an immigrant with no 62 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: you know, essentially legal status. Was it difficult to harness 63 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: your feelings while you were writing this book. 64 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was just ways of describing my anger about 65 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: the notions of citizenship and deservingness and privilege. One of 66 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: the original introductions was this fantasy that I've had since 67 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 2: I was a little girl, which was a hostage situation 68 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 2: at a bank, and all of the hostages were white, 69 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 2: blonde children, women, cops, firefighters, people who are deemed innocent 70 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 2: and heroes. And then I walk into the bank and 71 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,559 Speaker 2: I'm undocumented, and somehow, even though I have no idea 72 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 2: how to hold a gun, that I'm able to wrestle 73 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,000 Speaker 2: the gun out of the terrorist hands, shoot the terrorists 74 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 2: in like the knees or somewhere that's like not going 75 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 2: to kill him because I don't. 76 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 3: Want to kill him. 77 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 2: And the hostages go out like they're all freed, and 78 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 2: like I'm wearing a slip because I also want to 79 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 2: look beautiful, right, which is also like a reference to 80 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 2: the two thousand and six immigration marches where we all 81 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,240 Speaker 2: had to wear white. And then I walk out and 82 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: it's like swat teams are there, and like everyone's there, 83 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: and of course Ice is there to arrest me because 84 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 2: I'm the foreigner and my hair is in the breeze, 85 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: and everyone takes my photo and I'm like on the 86 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 2: front cover of every national newspaper and I get my citizenship. 87 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 2: That's like that was my fantasy ever since I was 88 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 2: a kid. That that's how I got my citizenship. My god, 89 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: it's like you have to do extraordinary acts of like 90 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,480 Speaker 2: Hollywood magic, and then you are rewarded your citizenship. 91 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: I guess I'm stuck on the fact that you were 92 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: having fantasies like this as a child, and I guess 93 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: I just kind of want to take a moment for 94 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,000 Speaker 1: people to think about that while other little kids are 95 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 1: thinking about who knows there are undocumented children in this 96 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,720 Speaker 1: country who dream and have fantasies about somehow some miraculous 97 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: situation that gives them the thing that your child takes 98 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,000 Speaker 1: for granted every day. 99 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: It's really burdensome to have to perform goodness and innocence 100 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 2: and perfection. And I know that as a kid who 101 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 2: or as a person now, as a thirty year old 102 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 2: woman who is on the outside and on paper, such 103 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 2: a poster child for the American dream, and I've never 104 00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 2: performed it, but it's so imposed on me. And I 105 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 2: described my own complex feelings about it in the book, 106 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 2: like I really drank the kool aid of social mobility 107 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: very early on when I was a child and became 108 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: fixated on accomplishment and success and being able to one 109 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:39,359 Speaker 2: day retire my parents even now, I am. 110 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 3: Fully aware, and I am very self aware. 111 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: Of the intergenerational trauma issues in our community and in 112 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 2: my own family and everything. But I still don't think 113 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 2: I know who I am as a person outside of 114 00:06:55,120 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 2: the way my personal accomplishments can result in the alleviation 115 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 2: of pain for my parents and the undocumented community. If 116 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: you were to take that away from me, I don't 117 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 2: know who I am as a person, and I think 118 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: that's true for a lot of children of immigrants who 119 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: have become successful. 120 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: I would definitely agree. But I want to talk a 121 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: little bit about your own history because your book is 122 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 1: also a story about you and your family. So can 123 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: you just take us through your parents' journey to becoming 124 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: American versus your journey to becoming American? 125 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: Well, I'd say in the book that my parents wouldn't 126 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 2: describe themselves as American. They would describe themselves as New Yorkers. 127 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:41,520 Speaker 3: Like my mom. 128 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: If she had had the opportunities that I have had 129 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 2: in this country, she would have been like a comedy 130 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 2: writer for SNL. She is mean, she is funny, and 131 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 2: she is witty. And I think even though my father 132 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: is the one who reads, my father is the one 133 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 2: who can assumes books just like air. He's the one 134 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: who admires Fidel because of the four hour long speeches 135 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 2: he gives on You know, he made me listen to 136 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 2: those speeches, not because of the political content, but because 137 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 2: he wanted me to focus on the oratory. But I 138 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: got the writing stuff from my mom because my mom 139 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: is so quick. I think my mom and I have 140 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: a complicated relationship in part because she resents me a 141 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: little because I'm able to live out a life that 142 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 2: she would have loved for herself. Yeah, I think she 143 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,920 Speaker 2: would have been a comedy writer. And New York just 144 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: the temperament of it just fits with who they really are. 145 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: So your parents are Jehovah's witnesses and they raise you 146 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: as a Jehovah's witness. Yes, so, and we're talking about 147 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 1: New York, so just be honest. Did you and your 148 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: parents go around and bring people's doorbells? 149 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 3: Yes? 150 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 2: So. My parents have always been low key, kind of renegade. 151 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 3: So I'm going to like whisper this too, Okay, just. 152 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 4: In case, just in. 153 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: Case that Jehovah's witness the elders are hearing. So like 154 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:18,439 Speaker 2: Jehovah's witnesses were not really allowed to pursue college educations. 155 00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 2: We were supposed to like dedicate ourselves full time to 156 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 2: the Lord's ministry. But the most important thing to my 157 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: parents was an education. So for instance, when I was 158 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 2: a child, I was in Catholic school because my parents 159 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 2: believed it was better than public school. And the Jehovah's 160 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 2: witnesses were mad about that, but my parents didn't care, 161 00:09:41,400 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: and so they really defended me and went against that. 162 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 2: For college, no one had ever gone away to a 163 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 2: four year school to live on campus. My parents got 164 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: into a lot of trouble for that. But my parents 165 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 2: were like, it's Harvard, of course she's going. She's a genius. 166 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: Like Also, my parents think I'm a genius, like low key. 167 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 2: They think I'm like Malala. They think I'm like the 168 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 2: Latina Malala. And my dad thinks. My dad is like, 169 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 2: you should contact Greta Thunberg. You have a lot in common. 170 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,400 Speaker 3: And I'm like, yes, let me get immigrants grandparents. 171 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: I'm like, let me slide into her her dms. So 172 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 2: they got into a lot of trouble for that. Like, 173 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 2: my father has always been a feminist and he has 174 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 2: always called me macha anytime a man would raise anything 175 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 2: gender related in the congregation, he would confront them. So 176 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: they enjoyed the community, and they enjoyed having people who 177 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:42,839 Speaker 2: would call them when they're sick and visit them when 178 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 2: they were in the hospital. 179 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 3: But like some of the more. 180 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 2: Problematic aspects of the doctrine, they rejected. 181 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: Your parents are a very big part of the book, 182 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: and your relationship with them and how it impacts your 183 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: mental health is also a big part of your story. 184 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:04,160 Speaker 1: So when did you and how did you realize that 185 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 1: a lot of this had been caused by this separation 186 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: between you and your parents. 187 00:11:10,520 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: I guess it wasn't until I was diagnosed with borderline 188 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: personality disorder, which is sometimes used to really describe complex 189 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: trauma and is really strongly related to attachment issues and 190 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: attachment issues in early childhood that I began thinking about 191 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,800 Speaker 2: this seriously. And I thought that it was like people 192 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: having a fixation on this period of separation between me 193 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: and my parents. And I found that offensive, and I 194 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 2: found it kind of low hanging fruit. I thought it 195 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:50,080 Speaker 2: was such a cliche. I was like, how unimaginative can 196 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,200 Speaker 2: you be to think that it's like my separation from 197 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 2: my parents. I've never thought about it like you are 198 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 2: such like an imaginative writer writing this. 199 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:00,200 Speaker 3: About my life. 200 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 2: And then you know, the children being separated from their 201 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 2: parents at the border. Stuff happened, and I began doing 202 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: research on it, and it clicked to me that you know, 203 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 2: whether it was like small separations, or whether it was 204 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 2: separations that where the parents made that choice, or whether 205 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 2: you know it it was all separations that the evidence 206 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:31,000 Speaker 2: showed that that study showed would have severe impacts on 207 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 2: the way that the children's brains formed. Once I admitted 208 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:38,160 Speaker 2: that to myself, I saw it in my life and 209 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,440 Speaker 2: I felt complete panic at what would happen to all 210 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 2: those children, and I felt completely responsible for all those children. 211 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 2: I mean, my parents are the most unstable part of 212 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 2: my life, and that is partly because of the attachment 213 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,720 Speaker 2: issues I have with them. And I decided I have 214 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 2: some you know, resources, I have some stability, I have 215 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: some privilege. How can I learn coping mechanisms? How can 216 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 2: I learn to take care of myself? How can I 217 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 2: learn to be able to survive and want to keep living? 218 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 2: And this brings me into a larger problem which I 219 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 2: think younger people experienced, right, which is, how do you 220 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 2: learn to live for yourself and not others. I always 221 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:27,120 Speaker 2: wanted to speak openly about mental health because there is 222 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 2: a stigma in our community. People think it's a character 223 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 2: flaw and not a real illness. But I think for me, 224 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 2: it's like, I think it's so easy to talk about 225 00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:40,079 Speaker 2: mental illness because people look at me and again on paper, 226 00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 2: I'm like so successful. You look at me and I'm 227 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 2: like so put together. I'm like so charismatic. I'm like, 228 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,839 Speaker 2: you know, I'm wearing makeup. I'm like, look, I look great. 229 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: It's like, so people respect that. The very first thing 230 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 2: I did when I got my book advance is I 231 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 2: got therapy for my entire family. And you know what, 232 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: the project that I want to work on after you 233 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 2: know this pandemic takes its a different form, is I 234 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 2: want to create a database in New York for low cost, 235 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 2: sliding scale mental health practitioners who speak Spanish because our 236 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 2: community is going to need them. 237 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 4: You know. 238 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: I just I really want to thank you, Gadlab, because 239 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: you're so open with the complexities of about what this 240 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: looks like. Because I mean, the truth is all across 241 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,120 Speaker 1: the country, there are young people, children who are going 242 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 1: to grow up just like you, because they are a 243 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 1: product of this country. They were separated by force or 244 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 1: tourned from their parents' arms, or in your case, you know, 245 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 1: left behind and then reunited, and the mental health effects 246 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: of that separation are at the same time a very 247 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 1: real stigma in our community. 248 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 2: What's so disturbing about the way that that we treat 249 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: people with mental illnesses who are color. Is speaking with 250 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 2: a young person of color about this the other day, 251 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 2: and she has trauma, She has intergenerational trauma in her family. 252 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 2: She is experiencing this pandemic in the way that you 253 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 2: know a young black girl would, and her psychiatrist prescribed 254 00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 2: her a very potent antipsychotic that I was prescribed when 255 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 2: I was twenty one years old at Yale, and nobody 256 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 2: talked to me about being undocumented. Nobody talked to me 257 00:15:29,120 --> 00:15:31,680 Speaker 2: about growing up in poverty. Nobody talked to me about 258 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,360 Speaker 2: having been abandoned as a child. Nobody talked to me 259 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 2: about survivor's guilt. And I think white privileged Americans cannot 260 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: possibly understand the survivor's guilt of children who have been 261 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 2: spared and all of us, if we have made it 262 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 2: in some way, if we have crossed the border, if 263 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 2: we have made it to America, if we have not died, 264 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 2: we have some measure of survivor's guilt, and that will 265 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: manifest itself in self harm and anxiety and depression and 266 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 2: ulcers and migraines, in attention deficits at school, in misbehavior 267 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:09,680 Speaker 2: at school, especially for boys, you know, for brown boys, 268 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 2: for black boys. 269 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 3: They will be criminalized. 270 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: If the cops are called, they're going to be shot 271 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 2: instead of being given medical attention. And so this is 272 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 2: like a real public health crisis, and it scares me. 273 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 2: And that is one of the reasons why I was 274 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: so open about my own mental health struggles in the book, 275 00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 2: about my own suicidal ideations, about my own problems with 276 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 2: self harm, because I want people to know that a 277 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: Harvard graduate, a Yale PhD, like someone like me, struggles 278 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 2: with this and is extremely high functioning. And these kids 279 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 2: struggle with it too, and that doesn't make them any 280 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 2: less human. That just means they have been wounded by 281 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,680 Speaker 2: this white supremacist country. 282 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: Coming up on Latino USA immigrants and their invisibility in 283 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: times of tragedy, just like the pandemic that we're living 284 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 1: and dying from and Carla reads us a piece from. 285 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 4: Her book Stay with Us, Not the Way. Yes, Hey, 286 00:17:59,359 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 4: we're back. 287 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: And before the break, we were speaking with author Godla 288 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 1: Cornejo Biavisensio about her new book, The Undocumented Americans. It 289 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: illustrates Godla's life as an undocumented immigrant who personifies the 290 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 1: American dream. It also looks at the effects that family 291 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: separation can have on immigrants children. Let's continue that conversation. Now, 292 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, we're living through this pandemic, and we're kind 293 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: of taking stock of the trauma that we're all living 294 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:33,760 Speaker 1: through together. And you know, reading your book, well, I 295 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: used to say that nine to eleven transformed my life 296 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: as a journalist and as a human being. Of course, 297 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,080 Speaker 1: right now there's the pandemic. But then I'm reading your book, 298 00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 1: and honestly, the last thing I expected to find was 299 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: a chapter about Ground Zero. So tell me, Godla, why 300 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: was it important for you to tell that story. 301 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,480 Speaker 2: There was a bike outside of ground Zero that had 302 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 2: a makeshift sign on it that said a memorials Delivery 303 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 2: Boys and Memory of the Delivery Boys, and it had 304 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,440 Speaker 2: fake carnations on it, and that's because so many delivery 305 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 2: men died. 306 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 3: And so I really wanted. 307 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 2: To tell the story of those deaths because you know, 308 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 2: in Latin America we have this horrible historical I would 309 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 2: say memory of the disappearances because of the dictatorships. People 310 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:24,640 Speaker 2: just being yanked out of their beds in the middle 311 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 2: of the night and disappeared by dictatorships, and their families 312 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,119 Speaker 2: never got a chance to grave them or to know 313 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: where their bodies were. And we have like those images 314 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: of the mothers of the Blassa and Maya just marching 315 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:40,119 Speaker 2: and marching. You know, this is what happened. We don't 316 00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 2: have bodies for these people. We don't have their names. 317 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: Their names were not inscribed on the nine to eleven Memorial, 318 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 2: and just the idea of undocumented people being so invisible 319 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: that they would not even be counted among the dead, 320 00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 2: and when asked about it, government people would be like, Nope, 321 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 2: that's all the dead. We counted, that's all the dead, 322 00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,880 Speaker 2: and like all of us like screaming and being like no, 323 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 2: like my roommate disappeared, my husband disappeared, they worked there, 324 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 2: they died, and the government saying otherwise, that's just crazy making. 325 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: So in your book you write quote, the first responders 326 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 1: were firemen and EMT workers and the second responders were 327 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 1: undocumented immigrants. And that's because what ended up happening is 328 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:34,719 Speaker 1: that many undocumented Latinos were actually hired to clean up 329 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 1: Ground zero, and now they're suffering mentally and they're suffering physically. 330 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 4: And so you actually went. 331 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 1: To meet some of these survivors at their therapy sessions 332 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,119 Speaker 1: in New York. One of the people who you write about, 333 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:50,679 Speaker 1: and I was wondering if you could just set up 334 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: the scene that you're going to read, and this is 335 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: somebody named Milton Vajejo. 336 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: I'd say he's profoundly affected by PTSD and he's a 337 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 2: very lovely man. But he worked in one of the towers. 338 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 2: He lost people. He also struggled with suicidal. 339 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 1: Attempts, and will you just please share with us what 340 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:17,359 Speaker 1: you wrote about him in your book. 341 00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 2: Milton attends the nine to eleven group therapy meetings regularly, 342 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 2: and when he sees me again after so many years, 343 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:29,760 Speaker 2: he bows, slightly, kisses my hand and says, Senorita Carla 344 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,479 Speaker 2: Eve returned. He is on medication now and it has helped. 345 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 2: But at the beginning of his treatment things were bad. 346 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 2: I tried to take my life. He says a psychologist 347 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: who worked with some of the nine to eleven survivors 348 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:45,200 Speaker 2: talked him down from overdosing on pills over the phone, 349 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: reassuring him that he was loved. Milton also sees a 350 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 2: psychiatrist who once talked him down from throwing himself onto 351 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 2: the train tracks. Milton speaks in an overly formal way, 352 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: with the affect of a dictator. This makes me think 353 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 2: of my father, other amateur fidel, and I think about 354 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 2: meeting my father for what felt like the first time, 355 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,359 Speaker 2: all those years ago, when I was five. 356 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,760 Speaker 3: One of the first things he did was take me 357 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 3: to the zoo. 358 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 2: It was both random and perfect, a reminder that we 359 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 2: were still here, animals, ourselves on earth. 360 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: Your whole book is about being one American. 361 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: You know, the reason why I titled this book The 362 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:35,440 Speaker 2: Undocumented Americans was not to make an argument about our 363 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 2: americanness in terms of the way that americanness would be 364 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: defined by like patriotism or civic duty or it's more 365 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 2: of like in order to situate ourselves within the story 366 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 2: of America. And that's a story that has been true 367 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:00,120 Speaker 2: for generations, for immigrant groups of all kinds, For you know, 368 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 2: Jewish people, Italian people, Irish, Chinese, you know, Latinos now 369 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,959 Speaker 2: like you know, when we think about the Great American Novel, 370 00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 2: we think like the Great Gatsby or The Grapes of Wrath. 371 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 2: I think the Great American Novel is a story about 372 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:24,240 Speaker 2: children of immigrants and the bizarre feeling we have towards 373 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 2: our parents that we call love and that we actually 374 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: don't really have a word for. You don't know what 375 00:23:32,840 --> 00:23:37,120 Speaker 2: love is? Pure love? Where the joy, where it's gratitude, 376 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: what's obligation, what's pity? 377 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: What sorrow? What any of those things are? 378 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 2: Because it's like trying to get like a salad dressing 379 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 2: with like oil and vinegar and the pepper and all 380 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 2: of those things and saying like, okay, separate them with 381 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 2: your hands. That is the American story, the story of 382 00:23:55,640 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 2: how do we love and maintain this love that we 383 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,920 Speaker 2: do not have a word for. It's a new kind 384 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 2: of love that is born out of migration and duty 385 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 2: and honor. 386 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 3: I'm trying to. 387 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 2: Establish through this book that this is an American story. 388 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,639 Speaker 2: This is like a real American story. And part of 389 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: the American story is what happened to African Americans in 390 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: this country, What happened to Native Americans in this country, 391 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 2: what happened to Japanese Americans in this country, and what's 392 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 2: happening to us now. So when I see what's happening 393 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:37,879 Speaker 2: to us now, I see it as perfectly American and 394 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 2: classically American, as if like Yo Yo Ma was given 395 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 2: a piece that said, play America for us, and this 396 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:49,239 Speaker 2: is exactly what it sounds like. 397 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: It has been a particularly challenging time for our mental health, 398 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:00,679 Speaker 1: living through a pandemic and feeling like COVID nineteen is 399 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: a story about people of color. So I'm wondering how 400 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: you're processing this precise moment. You've talked about the challenges 401 00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: that you're facing. What do you recommend? And certainly you're 402 00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: not here to give you know, you're not an advice columnist. 403 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: What are you doing in terms of trying to put 404 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: this moment together that we're all witnessing. 405 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,160 Speaker 2: Well, Maria, you know that Schludin of immigrants are advice columnists. 406 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 2: We are accountants, we are nurses, we are we are. 407 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 4: Doing it all the time. 408 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: It's like we do It's like we do it because 409 00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:35,560 Speaker 1: we have to say to each other everything. 410 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 2: We're like, oh my mom is like, can you can 411 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,119 Speaker 2: you like put an ivy in me? And I'm like, 412 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, like whatever. 413 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: So Carl, I think it's important to say. Look, I 414 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: wouldn't know this were it not for the fact that 415 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,640 Speaker 1: we're also doing a FaceTime call. 416 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 2: Here. 417 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: You're crying as you're doing this, So I asked you 418 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: this really painful question. 419 00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 4: You're crying and you're laughing as you're answering me. 420 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 3: I'm just it's my hysterical womb. Okay. So there are 421 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 3: different facets to this question. 422 00:26:05,080 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: As a daughter, and I will answer this as a 423 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 2: daughter of my biological parents, and then as a daughter 424 00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 2: to all of the subjects that I have written about. 425 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 3: As a daughter to my biological. 426 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 2: Parents, the answer is I make sure that they're okay. 427 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 2: So I have been lucky enough to be able to 428 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 2: hemorrhage my savings into financially taking care of them so 429 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,439 Speaker 2: that they don't leave the house, and so they have 430 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:39,680 Speaker 2: been quarantined because they're both immunocompromised. And I like FaceTime 431 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 2: my mom every day and. 432 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: Like perform shows for her. 433 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 2: So like once I dressed up as Selena and did 434 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,159 Speaker 2: like a medley of songs from Selena. 435 00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 3: Once I worked for her. 436 00:26:55,440 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 2: And did for Yoperrero Sola by Bad Bunny, and like, you. 437 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:04,040 Speaker 3: Know, I do different songs for her once I did. 438 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 2: Because you know, my dad left her. So like I 439 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:17,560 Speaker 2: do different things, like to make sure that their their 440 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:20,720 Speaker 2: mental health is okay. Now for the subjects that I've 441 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 2: written about her I write about, I like check in 442 00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: on them and make sure that they're like social distancing 443 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,520 Speaker 2: and they're take care of check in on each other, 444 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:33,919 Speaker 2: you know, check in on the elderly, check in on people, 445 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 2: check in on your older Latino relatives who may be 446 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 2: susceptible to fake news, or those like threads that they 447 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:43,640 Speaker 2: send each other. 448 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:44,400 Speaker 3: Oh. 449 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 2: As a writer, I know literature changes after you know, 450 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: it changed after the A bomb, It changed after Hiroshima 451 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,400 Speaker 2: and Nagasaki. It changed after World or one, after World 452 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 2: or two. It just changes after big events like this, 453 00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 2: And so I know literature will change now. 454 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 3: And as a. 455 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 2: Person, I think your number one obligation is to as 456 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: a LATINX person, Like Audrey Lord said about self care 457 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: being radical, that wasn't for Gwyneth Paltrow, That wasn't for 458 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 2: the white ladies who do yoga and crystals and goop. 459 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 2: That was for us, that was for people of color, 460 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,680 Speaker 2: that was for women of color who are caretakers, who 461 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 2: have the world on our backs. And I think you 462 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: do have to take care of yourself. You have to sleep. 463 00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 2: Sleepy makes your immune system strong. You have to take 464 00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 2: care of yourself. If you cry, if you want to cry, cry. 465 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 2: That's one of the things I've learned during this because 466 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,680 Speaker 2: I think in our community we've learned to hide behind 467 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 2: the facade of strength. And something I told myself during 468 00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 2: the entire Trump presidency is if I cry, that means 469 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 2: Stephen Miller wins. And so I haven't cried for the 470 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: entire Trump presidency. 471 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 4: Wow. 472 00:28:56,320 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: And so I just cried the other day and it 473 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 2: felt good. So I think you have to take care 474 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,800 Speaker 2: of yourself emotionally and that will help you take care 475 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 2: of other people. Although that brings me back to problem 476 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: Numero uno, which is how do you live for yourself 477 00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 2: and not just take care of yourself in order to 478 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 2: take care of other people. 479 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: Gadla Gornejo Vievi Cencio, thank you so much for joining 480 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: us on Latino USA. 481 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 3: Thank you. 482 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 1: Maria Gadla gorn Vievi Censio is a writer based in 483 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: New Haven. The Undocumented Americans is out now. This episode 484 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,479 Speaker 1: was produced by Sophia Sanchez and Janie Yamoca and edited 485 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:02,760 Speaker 1: by Sophia Alisa Ka and Andrea Lopez Cruzado. 486 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,280 Speaker 4: The Latino USA. 487 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: Team includes Miel Macias, Luis Trees, Julieta Martinelli, Alis Escarce, 488 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: Gini Montalbo, and Alejandra Salasad with help from Raul Prees. 489 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: Our engineers are Stephanie Lebou, Julia Caruso and Lia Shaw, 490 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: with help from Elisha ba YouTube. Our director of programming 491 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 1: and Operations is Natalia fide Joz. Our digital editor is 492 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 1: Luis Luna. Our New York Women's Foundation Ignite fellow is 493 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: Julia Rocha. Our interns are jime Le Serro, Emil se 494 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: Quiros and Gabriel La Baez. Our theme music was composed 495 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: by Zenie Robinos. If you like the music you heard 496 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: on this episode, stop by Latino Usa dot org and 497 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: check out our weekly Spotify playlist. I'm your host and 498 00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: executive producer Maria J. 499 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 4: Josa. 500 00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:48,400 Speaker 1: Join us again on our next episode, and in the meantime, 501 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: look for us on all of your social media. 502 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 4: I'll see you there. Astell Approxima Ciao. 503 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 5: Latino USA is made possible in part by the Ford Foundation, 504 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,360 Speaker 5: working with visionaries on the front lines of social change worldwide, 505 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 5: the John D. And Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, and the 506 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 5: Heising Simons Foundation, unlocking knowledge, opportunity, and possibilities. More at 507 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 5: hsfoundation dot org. 508 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: I'm Maria no Hossan. Next time on Latino USA. What 509 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: happens when a transportation agency turns a residential neighborhood in 510 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 1: Los Angeles into a ghost town. We find the families 511 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 1: who are reclaiming these empty homes. The state is literally 512 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: hoarding these houses that are empty while people are suffering 513 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: on the streets. That's next time on Latino USA.