Speaker 1: This is Mia from the very very near future. We
Speaker 1: found out as we were live recording this episode that
Speaker 1: Teamster's leadership has cut a tentative agreement with UPS to
Speaker 1: try to revert the strike. So we've we've decided to
Speaker 1: leave this in and you're gonna hear us find this
Speaker 1: shit out, literally in the middle of an interview of
Speaker 1: what we thought was going to be a really really
Speaker 1: really large strike starting. So enjoy it strike season here
Speaker 1: at it could happen here the podcast where things fall
Speaker 1: apart and sometimes you put them back together again. And
Speaker 1: as as you probably have noticed, presumably from the last interview,
Speaker 1: maybe from reading the news, maybe from like talking to
Speaker 1: people who are in unions, we are in a genuindely
Speaker 1: historic period of labor militancy in this country. That is
Speaker 1: effectively we are now we are we are We are
Speaker 1: now entering the second phase of the hot Summer of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three. We used to have hot summers all
Speaker 1: the time. People do what that meant, so now it
Speaker 1: just means like global warming. But long ago, in the
Speaker 1: galaxy far far away, there are these things called hot
Speaker 1: summers when everyone would fucking go on strike and there'd
Speaker 1: be you know, sort of mass resist as a capital
Speaker 1: the state. And yeah, we're fucking going back there and
Speaker 1: talk with me about the next series of massive private
Speaker 1: sector strikes that we're about to get. Is Rehee Smith
Speaker 1: and Oliver Rose, who are rank and file UPS workers
Speaker 1: and teamsters doing the standard disclaimer. These individuals do not
Speaker 1: represent the union or the positions of the union. They're
Speaker 1: speaking as individuals. Yeah, we have this is this is
Speaker 1: this is the disclaimer for the lawyers. It is also true. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but recent Oliver, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Hey, yeah, thanks for having us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you much.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm really really glad we can talk to you. So,
Speaker 1: all right, the day this is going out, it'll be
Speaker 1: six days before the teamsters are potentially going to go
Speaker 1: on strike and the current contract runs out. Can I yeah,
Speaker 1: can we talk a little bit about what Okay, who
Speaker 1: is first, who is going on strike and what do
Speaker 1: they do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So there's going to be three hundred and forty
Speaker 2: thousand UPS workers going on strike, and that's going to
Speaker 2: be you know, the inside warehouse workers, and that's going
Speaker 2: to be the delivery drivers and also the theater drivers
Speaker 2: and the twenty two fours, like all of them.
Speaker 1: Could you explain what, oh last you are?
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, so twenty two fours is a classification of
Speaker 2: worker where they're kind of half inside and half driving.
Speaker 2: Something that the union has told us is that there's
Speaker 2: already been a tentative agreement that that classification is not
Speaker 2: going to exist anymore. It was kind of a really
Speaker 2: raw deal for people that found themselves in that position. Shit,
Speaker 2: what was the other one that I mentioned? Twenty two drivers?
Speaker 2: I think theater drivers. Yes, so theeter drivers are not
Speaker 2: your regular package delivery drivers. They drive the big semis
Speaker 2: that you see from like hub to hub and whatnot,
Speaker 2: and that's how they deliver. Uh. So those are the
Speaker 2: last two classifications that I mentioned. And yeah, we're all
Speaker 2: going to be going on strike, and well we are
Speaker 2: potentially going to be on strike, and if we are,
Speaker 2: UPS is kind of going to be in a world
Speaker 2: of hurt because it is very hard to replace three
Speaker 2: hundred and forty thousand workers and what economists have told
Speaker 2: me is a tight labor market. So yeah, it's going
Speaker 2: to be very exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's I'm excited, like I don't all you know,
Speaker 1: it was funny, So when when when SAG officially walked
Speaker 1: off and joined the WGA strike that was that was
Speaker 1: the largest strike since Hilariously, the team Stirs went strike
Speaker 1: in the like the year I was born, like ninety seven,
Speaker 1: And hilariously, that is a title that if this happens,
Speaker 1: they're going to hold that title for like one month
Speaker 1: before this ups striker places is the.
Speaker 2: Largest strike in the US since the nineties. Yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be wild. If we go on strike while
Speaker 2: you know, Saga AFTRA is on strike, and while the
Speaker 2: Writers Guilder are on strike, that's going to be over
Speaker 2: half a million workers on strike in this country at
Speaker 2: this time, and that is just going to be you know,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be fucking historic.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, And there's and there's a chance, depending on
Speaker 1: how long these strikes drag out, that we get to
Speaker 1: like September, the Big three Auto the UAW goes on strike,
Speaker 1: and if that happens, that that will be like the
Speaker 1: most number of people who've been on a strike in
Speaker 1: this country since like the fifties, which is wild, especially,
Speaker 1: you know, because this is supposed to be a sort
Speaker 1: of like, I don't know, I think that's sort of
Speaker 1: the especially interesting thing about this, right is that actual
Speaker 1: union density is really low and hasn't been increasing that much.
Speaker 1: On the other hand, and like everyone seems to lake
Speaker 1: unions and everyone wants to go on strike, and I
Speaker 1: don't know, it's it's a really interesting sort of set
Speaker 1: of conditions right now.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I'm very heartened by, you know,
Speaker 2: the support that unions have garnered, because as you mentioned,
Speaker 2: you know, we are at a low union density. There
Speaker 2: was like that labor decline that happened, you know, since
Speaker 2: the fucking like seventies and eighties, right, like the backlash
Speaker 2: to organize labor. I am very hopeful that this this
Speaker 2: strike wave can kind of turn that around. Right. You know,
Speaker 2: something that I've been thinking about a lot is uh,
Speaker 2: you know, it's like ups is a is a major,
Speaker 2: major company in a whole logistics sector, right yeah, and
Speaker 2: like we can set that standard for that logistics company
Speaker 2: or like a piece of shit company like Amazon in
Speaker 2: So if we win, and we win big, that could
Speaker 2: absolutely encourage more organizing in those other sectors, leading to
Speaker 2: an increase of union density. So hopefully that's like the
Speaker 2: way forward past all these strikes. It'd be great. It's
Speaker 2: sorely needed, sorely.
Speaker 4: Needed, absolutely and even beyond you know, the logistics industry.
Speaker 4: You know, I think we can show that you know,
Speaker 4: any you know company or corporation that you know, year
Speaker 4: after years making these record break and profits, you know,
Speaker 4: while meanwhile there's poor wear conditions or even unsafe work conditions.
Speaker 4: You know, there's pay that does not you know allow
Speaker 4: you know, us to pay rent, but food on the table.
Speaker 4: You know that we can just show that. Okay, you know,
Speaker 4: we're done, you know with giving all of the wealth
Speaker 4: that we're creating to the company, and now it's going
Speaker 4: back into our hands.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And UPS fucking created thirteen billion dollar profits last year. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: and that's up from I was just reading an article
Speaker 2: this morning and Jacobin written by a fellow UPS team star,
Speaker 2: and that's up from six point five billion in twenty nineteen.
Speaker 2: And they're also giving.
Speaker 1: Doubled the profit. They've overdoubled the profits and like to
Speaker 1: reach they.
Speaker 2: Were doubled their profits. And they keep trying to tell
Speaker 2: the union that, oh, no, I'm just a poor popper.
Speaker 2: We don't have money for your demands, like we're just
Speaker 2: we're just so poor, and it's like there, meanwhile, you know,
Speaker 2: they're given their fucking like CEO and shareholders like dividends
Speaker 2: and stock buybacks and all of that in addition to
Speaker 2: the profits that they are reaping, right, because profits is
Speaker 2: just the cream of the crop, right, Like that's everything
Speaker 2: past business expenses, what they're paying out like salary, so
Speaker 2: that's not even being touched. And yeah, no, it's time
Speaker 2: for us to say we want that. We created that.
Speaker 1: So I think that leads you to sort of the
Speaker 1: next thing I want to ask about, which is, can
Speaker 1: you talk a little bit about what the sort of
Speaker 1: specific grievances were that that kicked this off. I'm assuming
Speaker 1: there are a lot, because you know, this sucks.
Speaker 4: You know, and there is a wide range of conditions
Speaker 4: because you know, for a long time, you know, the
Speaker 4: contract hasn't kept up with both like economic and non
Speaker 4: economic side of things, you know, and we have kind
Speaker 4: of two dynamics where there's you know, well over a
Speaker 4: majority of like part time workers who aren't getting enough
Speaker 4: payer hours, you know, to afford to live. And then
Speaker 4: we also have you know, the full time workers who
Speaker 4: inside warehouse could be working you know, ten twelve hour shifts.
Speaker 4: You know, we have drivers who are doing you know,
Speaker 4: twelve hour shifts, and you know, even up to like
Speaker 4: fourteen hours you know, every day and then also getting
Speaker 4: you know contacted to come in you know on their
Speaker 4: day off to do six day weeks.
Speaker 3: You know. Of course on the driver's side.
Speaker 4: You know, we have these escalating temperatures and meanwhile there's
Speaker 4: you know, no air conditioned ers in the vehicles and
Speaker 4: same you know thing in the warehouse because personally, you know,
Speaker 4: I work inside warehouse as a loader, so I'm spending
Speaker 4: you know, virtually all my shift in the trailer loading boxes.
Speaker 4: You know, there's no airflow. Those things, you know, can
Speaker 4: you know be five to ten degrees hotter, you know,
Speaker 4: like at a minimum than the ambient temperature last summer,
Speaker 4: like on a mid ninety day, I recorded one hundred
Speaker 4: and eight degrees you know inside the trailer. So you know,
Speaker 4: there's not necessarily any kind of protections currently for that.
Speaker 4: So you know, that's one big lack in the contract
Speaker 4: is having those kind of you know heat heat protection
Speaker 4: and you know.
Speaker 1: Prevent that is yeah, I mean that could just kill people.
Speaker 1: And we've talked about on the show before people who've
Speaker 1: died like working conditions like that because you know it
Speaker 1: was it was too hot, but their bosses were like,
Speaker 1: fuck you, we don't care, like keep uploading this stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it's absolutely tragic. I know we had a
Speaker 4: you know, UPS team stir I believe in California who
Speaker 4: died due to the extreme heat conditions last summer. And
Speaker 4: also no, you know, there was another case where I
Speaker 4: think a driver stopped at like a convenience store to
Speaker 4: buy a drink and you know was fired. Were making
Speaker 4: you know, an off route stop even though they tell us,
Speaker 4: you know, take breaks when you need it, but they
Speaker 4: don't actually mean it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, because obviously, you know, you want to be being
Speaker 4: disciplined or fired.
Speaker 1: One of the things that I saw was part of
Speaker 1: negotiations that UPS had offered to be like, oh well,
Speaker 1: put in air conditionings in all new vehicles. And I
Speaker 1: was looking at this and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: this is the Clean Air Act loophole. I remember this.
Speaker 1: If you only specified new vehicles, I'll just never replace
Speaker 1: the old ones.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And you know with these companies, they're going to
Speaker 2: be looking for those loopholes, right Yeah, And like I
Speaker 2: don't know that I've seen a vehicle that looked new.
Speaker 2: When I'm at my hub, I'm also inside worker and Yeah,
Speaker 2: they all look like they've been around, been around a while,
Speaker 2: and I don't know that they've been spending the capital
Speaker 2: to get those new vehicles. So that's absolutely something that
Speaker 2: we're gonna you know, keep their feet to the fire on,
Speaker 2: so to speak. Yeah. And then in terms of other
Speaker 2: conditions that are like really leading up to this right now,
Speaker 2: there is a big problem with MRAs. And know not
Speaker 2: the MRAs you all might be thinking of, this is
Speaker 2: a market rate adjustment and both are bad. Both are bad.
Speaker 2: We are staunchly against both MRAs. And essentially what an
Speaker 2: MRA does is it it sounds good at first, you know,
Speaker 2: it gives the company leeway to you know, potentially increase
Speaker 2: our pay right beyond what's just stipulated in the contract. However,
Speaker 2: when you kind of get late into the contract, like
Speaker 2: you know, towards the expiration date, the base pay that
Speaker 2: was agreed on for the last contract is no longer acceptable.
Speaker 2: And while it gives them the leeway to increase our wage,
Speaker 2: they can always go back down to the lower wage
Speaker 2: should they choose to. And last year at the hub
Speaker 2: that I worked at, it was right after peak, in
Speaker 2: peak season. We were hired on at twenty seven dollars
Speaker 2: an hour, and come February, you know, we're all walking
Speaker 2: into the job and there's one of the supervisors there
Speaker 2: who is frankly looking like she's not having a good
Speaker 2: time having to stop to talk to each of us
Speaker 2: to explain, Oh, yeah, so we are going to be
Speaker 2: bringing your pay down to fifteen fifty an hour. Jesus,
Speaker 2: but don't I know, I know, but don't worry. Don't worry.
Speaker 2: There's an attendance bonus. There's an attendance bonus of one
Speaker 2: hundred and twenty dollars if you make all your shifts,
Speaker 2: and that really fucking sucked, like if you get like
Speaker 2: if you get sick, Like okay, so like at this
Speaker 2: hub that I work at, I work at one of
Speaker 2: the few hubs that don't have what's called the hourly guarantee.
Speaker 2: Most hubs have an hourly g If you're a part
Speaker 2: time worker, you have an hourly guarantee of three and
Speaker 2: a half hours a day. So if they say that
Speaker 2: there's no work to be done, you can say I
Speaker 2: want that hourly guarantee and they either find you more
Speaker 2: work to do or they pay that out. And then
Speaker 2: for full time workers, that's eight hours I work at
Speaker 2: one of the few hubs that doesn't. It's a classification
Speaker 2: related to the type of hub that I am at.
Speaker 2: And uh so I'm only like, at this hub, I
Speaker 2: work maybe twelve hours a week if I'm lucky, So
Speaker 2: this is twelve hours a week at fifteen fifty an
Speaker 2: hour with an attendance bonus. But if I get sick
Speaker 2: one of those days, that means I have a paycheck,
Speaker 2: a weekly paycheck that is going from roughly two hundred
Speaker 2: dollars to like maybe roughly eighty And that is just
Speaker 2: it's totally totally unacceptable the way that they kind of like, yeah,
Speaker 2: with the plague going on, yes, being sick is highly
Speaker 2: likely right now, and yeah, no, they're just kind of
Speaker 2: able to like yo yo us around on these wages
Speaker 2: like whenever they want. And so a demand that is
Speaker 2: being circulated in the grassroots of the union. Leadership hasn't
Speaker 2: really talked about it to my knowledge, but there is
Speaker 2: a you know, a petition going around to have a
Speaker 2: starting wage of twenty five dollars an hour, and you know,
Speaker 2: right now that would only be because right now this year,
Speaker 2: I'm making twenty four and they didn't do that bullshit.
Speaker 2: I think kind of an anticipation of the strike. They
Speaker 2: didn't want to make us, you know, more angry, and
Speaker 2: so that would only be a dollar increase for me,
Speaker 2: but also it would prevent them from doing that in
Speaker 2: the future.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So, I like Reese, you know, also was affected
Speaker 4: by the MRA, but luckily not as severe. You know,
Speaker 4: my pay went from twenty six down to twenty three
Speaker 4: an hour, and of course, you know what ten eleven
Speaker 4: percent pay cut also same time inflation goes up, you know,
Speaker 4: ten percent. This was very difficult enough, let alone having
Speaker 4: you know, your pay getting dropped almost by fifty percent.
Speaker 4: You know, there's multiple hubs in the area, and they're
Speaker 4: all just on different pay scales, you know, for the
Speaker 4: same kind of you know, same same area, doing the
Speaker 4: same work, and we had just have these like fluctuating
Speaker 4: pay scales, you know. I know for us, it was
Speaker 4: you know, right after peak season, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 4: thanks so much for the most successful peak season ever.
Speaker 4: We made record breaking profits. We couldn't have done this
Speaker 4: without you, by the way, we're cutting all of your
Speaker 4: pay and now, of course you know we're getting paid
Speaker 4: above twenty five and hey, that helped their profits, so
Speaker 4: you know, it's absolutely absurd to say, oh, well, you know,
Speaker 4: we can't afford you know, these higher wages when they can't.
Speaker 2: Yet they don't. Exactly, they doubled their fucking profits, Like
Speaker 2: are you kidding me? Like Jesus Christ, it's like they
Speaker 2: think we're fucking dumb. It's like no, like, our work
Speaker 2: far exceeded what you're paying us, like an unimaginable amount.
Speaker 2: And you guys like it was earlier on in the
Speaker 2: compln not earlier on. I think this happened maybe late June,
Speaker 2: early July. It was they leaked, it got leaked their
Speaker 2: economic proposals for us, and they had the part timers
Speaker 2: starting at seventeen dollars an hour seventeen, and like, I
Speaker 2: just I don't think that's affordable anywhere.
Speaker 1: I just think I'm gonna mention that I think is.
Speaker 1: I think it's really important, but it isn't particularly well
Speaker 1: in oursen. So you know, if you go back to
Speaker 1: like the regional flight fifteen campaign rights wage, like that wage,
Speaker 1: which was already like kind of nonsense in like twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: like with inflation, that's like nineteen thirty. Now, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: this is you know, this is this is how much
Speaker 1: like inflation has sort of deteriorated wages and that, and
Speaker 1: that's just sort of like you know, the economic terms,
Speaker 1: like inflation is like the bundle of goods, right, and
Speaker 1: that that's not accounting for the fact that, for example,
Speaker 1: the increase in housing prices has been way higher from
Speaker 1: this sort of like avig rated inflation, right. Healthcare costs
Speaker 1: are increasing higher from the sort of quote unquote Aviatrade inflation,
Speaker 1: and so like, yeah, it's like, yeah, this sounds like
Speaker 1: a lot of money. It's fucking like, no, sick simply
Speaker 1: is not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I heard at a at a rally not too
Speaker 2: long ago from one of the speakers for you know,
Speaker 2: it was a it was a team's rally that you know,
Speaker 2: we're getting our members hyped and all that, and one
Speaker 2: of the speakers mentioned that for our city, a minimum
Speaker 2: wage that could be livable would be twenty six dollars
Speaker 2: an hour. And I'm just like, yeah, that seems about right,
Speaker 2: and that's like the bare minimum. That's like, Okay, I
Speaker 2: can eat enough, I can pay my rent, and I
Speaker 2: probably don't have a whole lot leftover.
Speaker 4: So yeah, especially when we have you know, like average
Speaker 4: rent you know, for one bedroom you know, around like
Speaker 4: fifteen hundred dollars you know these days, and so many
Speaker 4: landlords want you you know, want three times you know
Speaker 4: that rent and income. So you know, I was actually
Speaker 4: just kind of yeah, writing you know, or you know,
Speaker 4: doing the math last night. I was just like, oh, okay,
Speaker 4: so in my hours I would have actually need forty
Speaker 4: three dollars an hour.
Speaker 3: Just to.
Speaker 4: You know, be making three times the average monthly rent. Yep, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: So that's definitely why you know, twenty five dollars you
Speaker 4: know an hour is the minimum. You know that, you know,
Speaker 4: I think we can settle for. I would love to
Speaker 4: see it higher, but I also recognize you know, well,
Speaker 4: you know, maybe twenty five is still not quite cutting it,
Speaker 4: you know in a more urban area. But you know,
Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of people that's you know,
Speaker 4: significant gains are going to help so much, you know,
Speaker 4: to meet their material needs. You know, definitely have to
Speaker 4: you know, consider this as you know, big picture, this
Speaker 4: is a national agreement, and you know we've got to
Speaker 4: get that really solid foundation and then we can expand
Speaker 4: from there.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well what the sorry as as as you were talking
Speaker 1: I got a thing saying that the team series have settled.
Speaker 1: What all right, think?
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, what the fuck.
Speaker 3: They're back at the table.
Speaker 2: Back at the negotiation table.
Speaker 3: Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: They've only been at the negotiation table for like four hours.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, I got signal shots here. Yeah, Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: Well all right, I don't know if were gonna leave
Speaker 1: this in, but yeah, we've discovered live on air that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Teamsters win historic ups contract. Oh we'll see.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I'm also looking at this and see one of.
Speaker 2: The Yeah, I'm at the teamster dot org website where
Speaker 2: they have an update on it.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, at least, you know, speaking of wages, at least
Speaker 4: the first thing that I'm seeing is existing part timers
Speaker 4: will be raised up to no less than twenty one
Speaker 4: dollars per hour immediately. A part time seniority workers earning
Speaker 4: more under a market road adjustment would still receive all
Speaker 4: new general wage increases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this is Uh I'm not stoked on those wages. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: I'm definitely I am twenty five or bust on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: All right, so that does that will change things. That
Speaker 2: definitely changes the timeline because this still has to be
Speaker 2: sent out to be voted on and approved by membership. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and what we learned at the there was a call
Speaker 2: not too long ago where they kind of explained the
Speaker 2: process of it. So in the event that they would
Speaker 2: reach at tentative agreement that gets sent out to us,
Speaker 2: we vote from home, and it takes about three weeks
Speaker 2: for it to ratify. There is still a possibility that
Speaker 2: membership could vote to reject it, in which case they
Speaker 2: would be going back to the bargaining table and we
Speaker 2: could potentially be going on strike then. But this does
Speaker 2: set it back by now three weeks. It'll be interesting
Speaker 2: to see what the TDU, which is the Team Service
Speaker 2: for a Democratic Union, which is a reform caucus inside
Speaker 2: our our union. It'll be interesting to see what their
Speaker 2: line is on this. So, oh my gosh, what a
Speaker 2: what a bomb drop to get in the middle of
Speaker 2: a podcast.
Speaker 3: Yeah, unfortunately, can't even speak to it since and a
Speaker 3: little bit of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it Do they actually have the full agreement
Speaker 1: out or are they just do they just have this stuff?
Speaker 2: They will not have the full agreement out, something that
Speaker 2: we've been having a little bit of fresh trations with
Speaker 2: within our union. Is that we do not have open bargaining.
Speaker 2: So bargaining happens Yeah, yeah, bargaining happens behind closed doors,
Speaker 2: and they occasionally give us updates about what's happening, but
Speaker 2: we don't really get to see the full picture until
Speaker 2: we're going to be voting on it. And h I
Speaker 2: obviously think this is bad for a number of reasons. Yeah,
Speaker 2: one and a big primary one is these contracts that
Speaker 2: are negotiated. I was about to go get my copy
Speaker 2: of the contract I could show you, and then I
Speaker 2: remember this is a podcast, and that's not actually going
Speaker 2: to be helpful for.
Speaker 1: Hey, we do we do. We do visual bits on
Speaker 1: this podcast all the time.
Speaker 3: It's fine.
Speaker 2: So the size of our pop our contract is about
Speaker 2: the size of a pocket Bible Jesus, it is. It
Speaker 2: is very very big, and it's you know, it's written
Speaker 2: in legally is and stuff like that, and so it's
Speaker 2: not very accessible to most of our most of our members.
Speaker 2: And so you know, if we had open and bargaining,
Speaker 2: if we had consistent like updates where like you know,
Speaker 2: our union leadership would be like, all right, so this
Speaker 2: is what we've agreed upon so far, this is what
Speaker 2: we've rejected. This is what it all means, you know,
Speaker 2: in the lead up to like whether or not you
Speaker 2: vote no, membership could have a far more comprehensive understanding
Speaker 2: of what is in the contract instead of waiting until
Speaker 2: the very end as we got little bits pieces and
Speaker 2: snippets and then being like, okay, well read this and
Speaker 2: decide how you feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's I don't know if if it
Speaker 1: feels like a system much just kind of designed to
Speaker 1: like railroad people into signing whatever contract negotiators agree to. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is kind of a disaster.
Speaker 3: And without that transparent see.
Speaker 4: I mean, you know, you know, all of us rank
Speaker 4: and file members are you know, essentially being removed from
Speaker 4: the process, you know, being involved in the decision making, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, stipulating what's going to do it, you know,
Speaker 4: to meet our needs?
Speaker 3: What what do we need?
Speaker 4: You know, out of these you know, five year contracts,
Speaker 4: and you know, I think it was just you know,
Speaker 4: a few days ago, got you know, get an update
Speaker 4: from the local you know, basically a week before you
Speaker 4: know the contract ends, you know, and they're you know,
Speaker 4: talking about this is like one of the most transparent
Speaker 4: contracts there's ever been. There's all these updates and you know,
Speaker 4: there's more rank and file you know, members involved in
Speaker 4: the bargaining, and it's like, well, that's great, you know
Speaker 4: that shows you know, how far you know, we've come,
Speaker 4: I guess. But also it's still just it's kind of
Speaker 4: sad to think that, you know, this, this process that's
Speaker 4: all bounded by NDA, is the most transparent, transparent it's been.
Speaker 1: And and also the fact the fact that you're fighting
Speaker 1: this out live on air from like their press release
Speaker 1: that they put out on Twitter, it's like.
Speaker 2: What yeah, yeah, oh my gosh, absolutely absolutely absurd. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so it seems like this is a this is an
Speaker 2: agreement that is going to be pushed by union leadership
Speaker 2: as a vote to vote yes on, which is a
Speaker 2: kind of a far cry from earlier in in July
Speaker 2: when you know, you when the team stories were telling
Speaker 2: ups you need to present us with either an agreement
Speaker 2: that we like actually agree with, or present your last
Speaker 2: best final offer by July fifth, right, Yeah, and yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, we'll we'll see how how the UH rank
Speaker 2: and file react in the twenty eighteen contract. I know
Speaker 2: that the TDU tried to UH organize a vote no
Speaker 2: campaign and they did get a simple majority of the
Speaker 2: membership to vote no. However, at the time, and this
Speaker 2: has now been changed, but at the time, Uh, in
Speaker 2: our constitution, it would require a two thirds majority to
Speaker 2: have projected it and goes to strike Jesus Christ.
Speaker 3: Was it was?
Speaker 1: Was that? Was that because it was was that because
Speaker 1: it has one of those weird like electoral college systems,
Speaker 1: or was it like you need two thirds to project it?
Speaker 2: Was a it was a you need two thirds. That
Speaker 2: has been changed. Uh when when Sean, when the Reform
Speaker 2: Slate was elected and they had their team Seris convention,
Speaker 2: they changed the constitution so that it would be a
Speaker 2: simple majority. So yeah, we'll we'll see what TD the
Speaker 2: line that TDU wants to take. And yeah, yeah, we'll
Speaker 2: see this. Uh, this certainly put puts a wrinkle on things.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be honest, I was actually really looking forward
Speaker 2: to strike pay because my strike pay would have paid
Speaker 2: more than my actual job does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean I think there's like, I think
Speaker 1: there's a few things that we can sort of immediately
Speaker 1: talk about from this one is that it doesn't like
Speaker 1: nothing they've put out here from what I've read so far,
Speaker 1: I'm reading I mean literally, I'm reading from the teamster's
Speaker 1: website says you're doing anything about market rate adjustments at all.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
Speaker 1: And the second thing is that you know, you know,
Speaker 1: we were talking earlier before we knew that there was
Speaker 1: a strike about sort of the impact of this on
Speaker 1: the entire class, and it really looks like both the
Speaker 1: Teamsters and UPS, like you know, really wanted to cut
Speaker 1: a deal as you know, part of part of this
Speaker 1: attempt to keep everything going and to keep the stuff
Speaker 1: from happening, which I mean, I think makes sense, right
Speaker 1: if you're you know, if if you're UPS, you don't
Speaker 1: act like we're we're having an actual sort of like
Speaker 1: workers and surtaincy like having having having a summer this hot,
Speaker 1: like isn't good for like, it isn't good for UPS.
Speaker 1: It's arguably not good for some of the more sort
Speaker 1: of like some of the more sort of conservative union
Speaker 1: leaderships either, who do who unlike a lot of workers
Speaker 1: do not want to be on strike because that like
Speaker 1: that cut that cuts into the sort of war chest
Speaker 1: of capital that they have to manage.
Speaker 5: Mm hmmm hmm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, uh they're you know, they're just recently
Speaker 2: on Twitter or excuse me, X it's X now. But
Speaker 2: just recently on Twitter, there was a fair amount of
Speaker 2: strike discourse. Uh yeah, and there was like you know,
Speaker 2: labor activists and stuff saying that, you know, like it's good,
Speaker 2: it's good for you know, if they reach a tentative
Speaker 2: agreement that you know sold this. Yeah, yeah, if they
Speaker 2: reach a tentative agreement that you know makes those material gains,
Speaker 2: it's better to not go on strike. And like, I
Speaker 2: I know, I know, like and to me, that's like
Speaker 2: a little bit wild because one, there is so much
Speaker 2: and we could demand so much more, but also, like
Speaker 2: you know, collective action, you know, in order to be consistent,
Speaker 2: to be good at it, it requires you to undertake it, right, Like,
Speaker 2: and you know, when I think about like how our
Speaker 2: local is, they have a very service model orientation to
Speaker 2: unionism as opposed to an organizing model, and I, you know,
Speaker 2: I was really under the impression that this potential strike
Speaker 2: could have kind of like you know, lit a fire
Speaker 2: under their ass and like kind of got back into
Speaker 2: like the organizing aspect of unionism, right uh, And like
Speaker 2: they weren't that great at that, I swear sometimes we
Speaker 2: would talk to them about like, hey, so like, have
Speaker 2: you tried likeabilizing members. Have you tried like showing up
Speaker 2: the gates? Have you like you know, you can like
Speaker 2: there's like programs out there where you can text your
Speaker 2: entire membership about like you know, come to this like
Speaker 2: contract update. And it's like we were just speaking a
Speaker 2: different language. Like they just had no idea, Like they
Speaker 2: had no idea. And they would look at our union
Speaker 2: meetings where like, you know, we represent like I think
Speaker 2: over like a like I think well over like one
Speaker 2: thousand workers. I don't have the numbers on that, so
Speaker 2: I'm not going to get more specific, but like well
Speaker 2: over that. And they would look at our union meetings
Speaker 2: where we have maybe fifty to seventy people, and they're
Speaker 2: just kind of like, well, this is just as good
Speaker 2: as it's going to get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's nonsense, Like it's nonsense.
Speaker 2: It's nonsense, like you know, like back in the fucking
Speaker 2: like you know, from like the tens to the fifties,
Speaker 2: union meetings would bring in just so many people and
Speaker 2: they don't have anywhere near the like technological advance advantages
Speaker 2: that we have now. And it was just it's very
Speaker 2: much like, yes, you tell us about your grievances, we
Speaker 2: get those filed and we do make those like wins
Speaker 2: for you, and like that's that's good. Like, you know,
Speaker 2: there are some unions that barely do that much, and
Speaker 2: the fact that they do that is great. But like
Speaker 2: you know, at my hub, I remember I was, I
Speaker 2: was talking to my carpool and he didn't even know
Speaker 2: who his steward was. And I'm like the only person
Speaker 2: that gives him updates about what's going on in the union.
Speaker 2: And that's just because like when I started working at UPS,
Speaker 2: I was just like, yeah, I'm gonna go to these
Speaker 2: fucking union meetings. I'm gonna find out what's going on.
Speaker 2: I want to be involved. And most people, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just a job for them, and they don't know
Speaker 2: all the things that a union can provide for them
Speaker 2: or how a union can back them up. And part
Speaker 2: of that's because you know, union leadership, you know, has
Speaker 2: decided that that's not something they really they don't need
Speaker 2: to be engaged with the members as they could be.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, and there's there's a second thing there too, which
Speaker 1: is like, okay, if you are like you know, if
Speaker 1: if if if if you are someone you know, if
Speaker 1: you were in a position of leadership, and you're in
Speaker 1: your position of leadership because there's incredible base. There's like
Speaker 1: really really load attendance for union elections, right, really load turnout,
Speaker 1: which is which is usually true, right, Like union union
Speaker 1: election turnout tends to be just atrocious. You don't actually
Speaker 1: want more people being involved because the more people that
Speaker 1: are involved, the more likely is it a bunch of
Speaker 1: people are going to show up in an election. Someone's
Speaker 1: good and you know when someone's gonna look at one
Speaker 1: of the deals you cut, it's gonna be like what
Speaker 1: the fuck are you doing? Right, So there's there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of sort of perverse intensive structures in terms
Speaker 1: of like just the sort of the basic organizational electoral
Speaker 1: structure that gets you, you know, like people cutting deals
Speaker 1: and culling and you know, like try trying to cut
Speaker 1: off the sort of like hot summer and its knees.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I have something funny that's kind of related to that.
Speaker 2: So when we were voting to authorize a to authorize
Speaker 2: a strike, right, you know, we we did it and
Speaker 2: all of that, and uh, you know, Sean O'Brien announced
Speaker 2: that there was going to be voting at the gates
Speaker 2: and are our local. Initially it was like, oh no,
Speaker 2: we're just going to have people come to the hall
Speaker 2: between the hours of eight and ten on two specific
Speaker 2: days and we'll do voting that way. Eventually, they did
Speaker 2: change it after they got pressure, i think probably from
Speaker 2: up top and below. But one of the members who
Speaker 2: is involved was like, oh no, no, no, no, like,
Speaker 2: it'll be better if it's just the people that are
Speaker 2: motivated enough to go, because they're the ones that are
Speaker 2: going to like vote the thing on through. And that
Speaker 2: was just that was wild too, seeing that sort of perspective,
Speaker 2: because if we, you know, if the union is there,
Speaker 2: if like you know, our union reps, our business agents,
Speaker 2: if they're there, if they're constantly engaging membership, then we
Speaker 2: will all be on the same page. Like they're the
Speaker 2: ones that have all of the like, you know, the
Speaker 2: like technical information. They're the ones that can really talk
Speaker 2: to they can talk to people about you know, like
Speaker 2: this is how much UPS is making and profits, this
Speaker 2: is like what they're paying our CEO. This is all
Speaker 2: of this. You deserve more and we're going to fight
Speaker 2: for it. And if they had those constant interactions, you
Speaker 2: would all be on the same page and we wouldn't
Speaker 2: have to worry about well, if there's increased voter turnout,
Speaker 2: it might make the vote kind of iffy, you know, like.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's definitely you know, that's been one of my
Speaker 4: biggest scripes is around uh, you know, communications, particularly you
Speaker 4: know from the local which is kind of practically non existent,
Speaker 4: and you know it's there's so many even like between
Speaker 4: new hires and you know, even people have been there
Speaker 4: a few years a part timers like don't know their
Speaker 4: rights under our contract and you know it was only
Speaker 4: because of organizing and you know, talking with people that
Speaker 4: I know those rights and can you know the share
Speaker 4: that you know knowledge uh with other you know teamsters.
Speaker 3: But it's kind of like, well, why why are we
Speaker 3: having to do this?
Speaker 4: And I mean of yes, internal or organizing, you know,
Speaker 4: knowledge is super important, but it'd be nice, you know why,
Speaker 4: you know, why isn't there a you know, like a
Speaker 4: welcome packet.
Speaker 3: Why are there you know, not more.
Speaker 4: Maybe not like full meetings, but at least something where
Speaker 4: you know, our union officials can meet with rank and
Speaker 4: file members. And I think I'm partly you know, speaking
Speaker 4: to that because you know, the shift I work is
Speaker 4: during union meetings, so you know, attending those is not
Speaker 4: you know, not quite feasible, uh, you know for me
Speaker 4: or other people on my shift.
Speaker 3: And I know that's also kind of seems like it's
Speaker 3: led to this like some.
Speaker 4: Contempt for part timers like oh, we're not involved, you know,
Speaker 4: we don't care. But it's like we don't you know,
Speaker 4: we don't necessarily know you know, about the meetings or
Speaker 4: that you know, there's the scheduling common or you know,
Speaker 4: again talking about like we don't even know what our
Speaker 4: you know, basic rights are you know, under our contract.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like a like you can't you can't not
Speaker 1: explain to people. You can't not onboard people and then
Speaker 1: complain that they're not onboarded, Like come on, this is.
Speaker 3: A sad self fulfilling prophecy there.
Speaker 4: You know, you're creating the outcome that you think you
Speaker 4: know already exists because you're not engaging members.
Speaker 1: So there was another thing that I wanted to talk about,
Speaker 1: which is that there's been a lot of like I
Speaker 1: don't know, I've been seeing this in sort of various
Speaker 1: places in the discourse talking about the strike, which is
Speaker 1: that there's a lot of people who basically are holding
Speaker 1: onto the notion that a people don't want to strike
Speaker 1: and b that like striking is bad and that you
Speaker 1: should want to do it as little as possible. And
Speaker 1: you know, this pisses me off for like a lot
Speaker 1: of reasons, one of which is that, like my grandma
Speaker 1: was a teamster and she was a she was a
Speaker 1: union punch card operator, like back in like the seventies
Speaker 1: and eighties. And you know, my grandma is like like
Speaker 1: not like a leftist, right like she we have to
Speaker 1: stop her from giving money to the Fallen Gong, like
Speaker 1: she's so you know this, this is the kind of
Speaker 1: thing super dealing with you, right, But like she loved
Speaker 1: going on strike, right like, And that's the thing that
Speaker 1: like my family, who's not like particularly sort of labor
Speaker 1: friendly or like, oh yeah, no, we love going on strike.
Speaker 1: Because that's that's why she has insurance, right because the
Speaker 1: team shairs were going with like any eighties teams just
Speaker 1: go on shrike. And I you know, and I think
Speaker 1: I think that's everything that's like this, you know this
Speaker 1: kind of well, okay, then there's two ways to look
Speaker 1: of it at it. One is that it's a fundamental
Speaker 1: misreading of the situation that's happened right now, which is, no,
Speaker 1: people absolutely love going on strike. People are really excited
Speaker 1: to go on strike. People who people whose politics are
Speaker 1: not like you know, people whose polities are not aligned
Speaker 1: with the left, really like going on strike and are
Speaker 1: really excited about it. And this is something that's happening
Speaker 1: sort of irrespective of this. There's been a bunch of
Speaker 1: wildcat strikes. This is something that's been happening sort of
Speaker 1: irrespective of like actual union membership as people what to
Speaker 1: do this. We've also seen sort of the great resignation
Speaker 1: over the last few years of you know, what is
Speaker 1: effectively a massive like part of the reason the conditions
Speaker 1: for labor are like this strong right now is because
Speaker 1: there's been this massive informal strike of people just sort
Speaker 1: of of people you know, walking off the job, like
Speaker 1: deciding their job fucking sucks and quitting. And that's been
Speaker 1: putting a lot of pressure on employers and you know,
Speaker 1: and it's simultaneous this, you know, I think, I think
Speaker 1: the reading of this that's more sort of cynical is
Speaker 1: that like, these people know this, right, they know that
Speaker 1: people want to go on strike, and they're looking at
Speaker 1: it and they're terrified, and their conclusion is like, we
Speaker 1: have to fucking stop, you know, we have to stop
Speaker 1: this wave of labor militancy before it gets going, because
Speaker 1: if it gets going, you know, if you're like, if
Speaker 1: you're you know, like a sort of centrist liberal politician,
Speaker 1: or if you're like a conservative union bureaucrat, like that's
Speaker 1: terrifying for you, then there's you know, there's there's a
Speaker 1: lot of people who have a lot to lose if
Speaker 1: if you know, like if really sort of a president
Speaker 1: wave of labor militance he gets going.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You know, when I think of, you know, people in
Speaker 2: wanting to go on strike, I guess I'll touch on
Speaker 2: two things here, which is that you know, at my hub,
Speaker 2: whenever we talk about going on strike there, you know,
Speaker 2: there is a sense that, yes, people really want it,
Speaker 2: and also they're really worried that they aren't going to
Speaker 2: be able to that, Like, you know, we're going to
Speaker 2: get this kind of agreement that most people will want,
Speaker 2: and it's not going to happen. And we've had all
Speaker 2: of this build up and you know, it's kind of
Speaker 2: kind of you know, fall flat. And then you know,
Speaker 2: also I've spent a fair amount of time on UH
Speaker 2: on picket lines as like a community supporter. And you know,
Speaker 2: there is something incredibly magical about being on strike, you know,
Speaker 2: like there's often just this outpouring of community support for
Speaker 2: the workers, right, and workers get to see that their
Speaker 2: labor is extremely valued by the larger community, and I
Speaker 2: think that is really important. I think that builds bonds
Speaker 2: of solidarity. And you get to see the other unions
Speaker 2: who come out and support of your strike, and then
Speaker 2: you know, you go and support them, and then it
Speaker 2: creates Yeah, it creates these bonds that you know aren't
Speaker 2: really they can be achieved without it, but it's just
Speaker 2: so much more bonding. I guess I'm going to use
Speaker 2: the term bonds a lot, but and there really isn't
Speaker 2: a substitute for it. And you know, and then people
Speaker 2: also they get to experience the power that they have
Speaker 2: as you know, as labor, right like they be can
Speaker 2: they realize it's like oh wait, no, like I'm on
Speaker 2: strike and this company is like the shit is hitting
Speaker 2: the fan for them because they don't have us who
Speaker 2: know how to do our jobs in there doing them right.
Speaker 2: Like you know, I was at a picket line for
Speaker 2: this other company a few years back, and like the
Speaker 2: workers there on the line were constantly giving the updates.
Speaker 2: They'd be like, yeah, man, it's wild I heard in
Speaker 2: there that like, you know, the managers are trying to
Speaker 2: do our jobs and like none of what they make
Speaker 2: is edible, and they're.
Speaker 3: Throwing it all away and like breaking.
Speaker 2: The machines are breaking, like ye, and so they're one.
Speaker 2: They're seeing that, yes, their labor is specific, it has value,
Speaker 2: it is necessary and crucial, and they are getting that
Speaker 2: community support and you know, there's not a lot of
Speaker 2: other opportunities for those realizations to happen.
Speaker 1: So yeah, and I mean there's something that like i've
Speaker 1: literally you've seen this, like our teachers' union. We've talked
Speaker 1: about this a bit on the show, but like our
Speaker 1: local teachers union in Chicago, Like god, you know, they
Speaker 1: got to reform caucussy and they're not perfect, but you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're much better than what was happening before. And
Speaker 1: you know, and one of the things they do is
Speaker 1: they've they've been on strike a lot of times in
Speaker 1: the last about deck like decade a decade, bit over
Speaker 1: a decade, and it changed the city, like Chicago is
Speaker 1: a you know, it was for i mean decades, decades
Speaker 1: and decades, this just like interminable machine run like neoliberal hellhole.
Speaker 1: And you know, I mean, I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: like Chicago's like some kind of like you know, like
Speaker 1: beacon of the left or whatever, but like the city
Speaker 1: is just different after it. And it was just the
Speaker 1: one truck they kept they kept going on the Shrike,
Speaker 1: and they kept going on the Shrek, and you know,
Speaker 1: you can you can look at the quality of their
Speaker 1: wins and you can sort of like you know, like
Speaker 1: I mean, there's not like I know, I mean, like
Speaker 1: I know people who like have quibbles with sort of
Speaker 1: like exactly what happened in the contract negotiations, but like
Speaker 1: you know, they they went on strike multiple times and
Speaker 1: they won and that really and then you know, the
Speaker 1: every thing happens is the thing you were talking about, right,
Speaker 1: is like suddenly you're at these pickets and like the
Speaker 1: entire community is showing up, like everyone's showing up with food.
Speaker 1: Like it it changed, it changed the city. And you know,
Speaker 1: and I think this guess is an everything I think
Speaker 1: is important here about and what's you know, sort of
Speaker 1: the potential is being averted. Is the interesting thing about
Speaker 1: this strike wave is that we've had a number you know,
Speaker 1: we've we had like the whole we had sort of
Speaker 1: the wildcat teacher strikes in twenty seventeen. We've had a
Speaker 1: couple of a couple of waves of teacher strikes. But
Speaker 1: like most of the strikes that have been happening at
Speaker 1: public sector unions, we haven't had these giant strikes other
Speaker 1: than basically, I mean, there there's been some, right, there's
Speaker 1: there's there's been a lot of strikes in the healthcare sector.
Speaker 1: We haven't had a strike like at this scale in
Speaker 1: the private sector in you know, outside basically like the
Speaker 1: Team Series and is like set the Team Series and
Speaker 1: like the Guild are like the only two big unions
Speaker 1: on that scale who go on strike like even kind
Speaker 1: of regularly. Even that's like that's like a once in
Speaker 1: like twenty year thing, right, And so I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I think, I think just sort of the potential
Speaker 1: of what's being lost here is enormous. If if what
Speaker 1: happens is that this deal, which is like I'm not
Speaker 1: great from when I see it from the initial things,
Speaker 1: although again, like we still don't fucking know what's in
Speaker 1: this deal, and we're not going to for like a
Speaker 1: bit at like at least until they fucking release the thing.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean obviously, you know, we'll we'll we'll have
Speaker 4: to see, you know, what's what's in that agreement. Yeah,
Speaker 4: but you know, at least just you know, for you know,
Speaker 4: my own views. You know, it's any you know company
Speaker 4: you know that's paying you poverty wages or you know,
Speaker 4: there's unsafe work conditions, and just seems like, well, on principle,
Speaker 4: there needs to be a work stoppage, like that's you know,
Speaker 4: if you're going to treat people that way, that's just
Speaker 4: the result.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Something that I'm like kind of
Speaker 2: thinking about right now is like, so like the twenty
Speaker 2: one h seventy five I believe it is for part
Speaker 2: time workers. You know, that is a significant increase from
Speaker 2: the fifteen fifty, but we're just at the beginning of
Speaker 2: our five year contract.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like I feel like, you know, like
Speaker 2: it's being viewed as like, oh, well, that's like okay
Speaker 2: for right now. It's you know, kind of not but
Speaker 2: it's really just not going to be okay in five years.
Speaker 2: When we have to have these contract negotiations again, and
Speaker 2: because we're not starting out with a solid twenty five
Speaker 2: dollars an hour, we're going to be playing catch up
Speaker 2: to what is not really okay right now. Like it's
Speaker 2: just gonna like it's like it's just going to keep happening.
Speaker 2: You know, by the time we get to twenty twenty eight,
Speaker 2: you know, we'll probably get up to twenty five dollars
Speaker 2: an hour maybe, but by that time, you know, who
Speaker 2: knows what we're actually going to need in order to
Speaker 2: survive in this economy. Yeah, so, you know, I feel
Speaker 2: like that wage is just not it's not proactive enough
Speaker 2: for what we're going to need in the coming years.
Speaker 2: And you know, in there there is stuff about like
Speaker 2: you know, wage increases for like you know, however long
Speaker 2: you've been there and stuff like that. But yeah, I
Speaker 2: you know, you know, like I graduated from high school
Speaker 2: in like two thousand and eight, and I just feel
Speaker 2: like the my entire life, the economy has just been
Speaker 2: fucking shitty. And when they tell me the economy is great,
Speaker 2: my finances are still fucking shitty.
Speaker 1: This is they're one of one of the old twenty
Speaker 1: eleven slogans that like, well, I guess it's also two
Speaker 1: thousand and eight slogan that like people need to fucking
Speaker 1: remember is that the when the bank takes your house,
Speaker 1: GDP goes up.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: The economic indicators that we have are are you know,
Speaker 1: they're they're Bushwa economic indicators right like they are they
Speaker 1: are They are designed to measure how well CAPP is
Speaker 1: being extracted from you.
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Speaker 4: Definitely no reflection on our actual you know, day to
Speaker 4: day lives, you know what what.
Speaker 3: Our needs are.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and hey, some people made money off of
Speaker 4: your labor, so things are good unless you know you're
Speaker 4: the labor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And like you know, I think, I think, and
Speaker 1: everything that happens a lot is like yeah, like you know,
Speaker 1: it is entirely possible that a bunch of people who
Speaker 1: are you know, making like seventy thousand dollars a year
Speaker 1: are fucking doing great right now, and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: bully for them, like we're fucking not.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, and speaking to you know,
Speaker 6: to the you know what the things you know look
Speaker 6: five years out, which you know, it seems like, you know,
Speaker 6: things just kind of get exponentially worse.
Speaker 4: You know, I don't know what you know the environment,
Speaker 4: you know what our climate's going to be. I don't
Speaker 4: know what you know inflation or food costs, you know
Speaker 4: it's gonna be and you know so far, you know,
Speaker 4: i'd need to see the you know what the tenet
Speaker 4: of agreement has on that market rate adjustment. And then
Speaker 4: there's also the cost of living adjustment too, which at
Speaker 4: least what I believe is, you know, it doesn't kick
Speaker 4: into like you've been there for five years, so I
Speaker 4: guess you just aren't living for those first five years.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: You know that my utilities and my rent waives my
Speaker 2: bills for the first five years that I worked for ups.
Speaker 1: Someone someone someone, so someone also like, go find the
Speaker 1: statistics on how many people get fired at four years
Speaker 1: and eleven months.
Speaker 3: Like yeah, and that's yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean that's also when the pension uh minimum investment
Speaker 4: investment time is five years. You know, that's also something
Speaker 4: I've thought about. Well, what happens on a four years
Speaker 4: and eleven months is that when you know, now even
Speaker 4: got a bigger target on my back, it's like already
Speaker 4: have thorn in their side.
Speaker 1: Uh, they they they they did the thing I said
Speaker 1: they were going to do where it says UPS will
Speaker 1: equip in cab, a c and all large v delivery vehicles,
Speaker 1: sprinter vans and packaged cars purchased after January first, oh,
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Fans are getting cars getting two fans
Speaker 1: in an induction event in the cargo compartment, which is good,
Speaker 1: but also not air conditioning.
Speaker 2: It's not air conditioning and it gets very hot in
Speaker 2: those trailers. And yeah no, it's like, yeah, in all
Speaker 2: large except you know, all things purchased after January first,
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's just like you know, yeah, it's like
Speaker 1: they will start purchasing cars again in like twenty ninety four.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, nothing in there about retrofitting those cars. Well,
Speaker 2: I think tersting cars.
Speaker 1: I think they're well, okay, I don't know. This is
Speaker 1: another thing, like it's it's unclear to me exactly what
Speaker 1: a lot of this means because we you know, like
Speaker 1: we we were like we can't get the actual contract,
Speaker 1: which is yeah, like yeah, so this is do we
Speaker 1: need to I guess also like prefaces like this is
Speaker 1: what we're not doing legal analysis of this. This is
Speaker 1: our speculation based on what we're reading. This is this
Speaker 1: none of this constanity's finding legal advice?
Speaker 3: Yeah, but yeah, yeah, hey I just work here.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Another thing that I'm like noticing in this contract.
Speaker 2: So another big grievance that was had was the lack
Speaker 2: of full time positions and so like, if you want
Speaker 2: to get a full time inside job, you know there
Speaker 2: is a seven to ten year wait list for that, right.
Speaker 2: So this US, this tenetive agreement stipulates that there will
Speaker 2: be a creation of seventy five hundred new full time
Speaker 2: team shore jobs at UPS and the fulfillment of twenty
Speaker 2: two five hundred open positions, but it doesn't specify if
Speaker 2: that's going to be for inside work or for uh,
Speaker 2: you know, more more drivers. And you know I have
Speaker 2: I have epilepsy, So I Am not going to be
Speaker 2: a driver. Uh that's just doesn't seem ideal for me.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I would I would like to see some
Speaker 2: numbers on Uh, so that wait list is that going down? Like,
Speaker 2: because that's like what I'm waiting for is to be
Speaker 2: able to you know, snag one of those full time
Speaker 2: inside positions. But I don't know, and like when you
Speaker 2: think about you know, seventy five hundred full time positions.
Speaker 2: It's also worth to keep in mind that ups employees
Speaker 2: three hundred and forty thousand people.
Speaker 1: So it's like, yeah, wait, yeah, so that's a two percent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, yeah, it's like two percent. And like admittedly,
Speaker 2: like you know, forty percent of that workforce is already
Speaker 2: like they're full time drivers, but so that's like sixty
Speaker 2: percent of that is part timers. And you know, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to make anyone do more math, but seventy
Speaker 2: five hundred for sixty percent of three hundred and forty
Speaker 2: thousand people.
Speaker 1: Is.
Speaker 2: It's not as exciting as just seeing that number itself, yes, right.
Speaker 5: Which is like a shook, Like and this goes into
Speaker 5: something you know, I've noticed, you know, with you know, coworkers,
Speaker 5: which is always talking about you know, you know, we
Speaker 5: need more hours and that you know.
Speaker 4: That that is true to a degree. You know really though,
Speaker 4: it's like, well we need more pay, you know, I
Speaker 4: you know, I think that's you know, would be a
Speaker 4: sign you know, it can be you know, like a
Speaker 4: really strong union is that you know, we can even
Speaker 4: just say, yeah, you know what, maybe people shouldn't be
Speaker 4: working seventy hour weeks. Yeah, you know, maybe we should
Speaker 4: cap that at thirty with you know PT pay that
Speaker 4: you know pays like full time. But of course, you
Speaker 4: know we're not there. You know, we need these jobs
Speaker 4: that can actually provide you know, definitely not going to
Speaker 4: knock that, but you know, would definitely like to see
Speaker 4: that overall shift kind of just you know, in our
Speaker 4: culture of you know, we don't need to work more
Speaker 4: to have our needs met.
Speaker 1: I think it's also sort of important to understand about
Speaker 1: ups jobs. It's like you're fucking destroying your body. So
Speaker 1: especially if you're like if you're if you're if you're
Speaker 1: one of the people shorting packages like you are lifting
Speaker 1: like you were lifting like thousands of packages a day.
Speaker 1: These things can weigh up to like eighty fucking pounds.
Speaker 2: They can weigh up to one hundred and fifty.
Speaker 1: One hundred fifty Jesus Christ never.
Speaker 4: Mind, Okay, one fifty is the other limit. Seventy pounds
Speaker 4: is where you know you can do team lift. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I know. Like talking to a feeder driver recently, was
Speaker 4: talking about having a you know, two of those trailers
Speaker 4: hooked up and weighing in at something like seventeen thousand
Speaker 4: pounds on the scale Jesus obviously you know that's the
Speaker 4: cabin engine included, I believe, but you know that's not
Speaker 4: my world. I'm kind of completely unfamiliar with that side
Speaker 4: of things. But still, yeah, it's like a lot of weight,
Speaker 4: you know, is we're carrying so many packages every day.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's a lot of wear and tear on
Speaker 3: the body.
Speaker 2: And management's always pushing you to move faster too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I had a uh, a worker who is a
Speaker 2: feeder driver for another hub, and she was telling me
Speaker 2: that a supervisor there was telling newly hired part time
Speaker 2: employees that it's actually safer to work faster instead of slower. What. Yes, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that makes no fucking sense, no fucking sense at all.
Speaker 2: And like one of the reasons they have an incentive
Speaker 2: to make us work really fast, which is that the
Speaker 2: full time soups get a parts per hour bonus, uh,
Speaker 2: depending on how fast we go. So you know, they
Speaker 2: will harass you into working faster, even though you know
Speaker 2: we're moving these thousands of fucking packages. They'll harass us
Speaker 2: to move faster so that they get a bonus off
Speaker 2: of the packages that we handled, and moved.
Speaker 4: I mean, like this last week in the you know,
Speaker 4: I think it was like mid nineties outside or something,
Speaker 4: you know, and we're not getting Oh do you need water?
Speaker 4: Do you need to rest? It was, Oh, you're not
Speaker 4: working fast enough. Like your packages per hours you know,
Speaker 4: too low. You know, it's that kind of constant you know,
Speaker 4: harassment or you know maybe sometimes like you know, I know,
Speaker 4: my supervisors a little bit more subtle about it, you know,
Speaker 4: versus you know, outright being like, oh, you need to
Speaker 4: work faster, because that's the thing is in our contract.
Speaker 4: You know, there's no kind of productivity quota. You know,
Speaker 4: we work safe, we follow the methods. That's something I
Speaker 4: really try and you know, really focus on because you know, ideally,
Speaker 4: you know, I want to you.
Speaker 3: Know, I would like to be here longer.
Speaker 4: Yeah, silly enough as that is for job with terrible conditions, but.
Speaker 2: You know, also it's a job that has ASI.
Speaker 3: And that yeah, that's the big thing.
Speaker 4: And it's like, I don't you know, what's a pinch
Speaker 4: you're going to do if you know, I'm you know,
Speaker 4: have some kind of you know, grave injury from from
Speaker 4: the jobs, but.
Speaker 1: Still, yeah, you're dead with heat exhaustion, it's like, well,
Speaker 1: a pension doesn't pay out, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it's just yeah, it's wild. It's wild. Man.
Speaker 2: I am going to be really excited to see how this,
Speaker 2: how this smoke goes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's gonna be an interesting day at work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm sure that I'll have those people
Speaker 2: that know that I know about the union come up
Speaker 2: and talk to me to ask me what I think
Speaker 2: about it, uh, because I'm the only person they know
Speaker 2: that knows anything about the union, because, as we talked
Speaker 2: about earlier, union reps just are barely ever there. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and yeah, we'll see, we'll see. Man. That's I'm just
Speaker 2: now really thinking about that seventy five hundred full time
Speaker 2: jobs three percent, two or three percent, depending on the
Speaker 2: metric that you're looking at.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I mean not enough.
Speaker 2: No, no, no, wild wild. And now that as is
Speaker 2: a at best, a delayed opportunity for a strike to
Speaker 2: build those as we talked about earlier, those necessary, necessary
Speaker 2: muscles that need to be exercised. Yeah, and that's at best.
Speaker 2: You know, we might have we might have missed it.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we'll see, we'll see.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: That fucking sucks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what a curveball to get for the podcast.
Speaker 1: Well most unless you have anything else you want to
Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, actually going to wrap up this incredibly
Speaker 1: chaotic episode that could happen here in which we discovered
Speaker 1: the chaos of a not open bargaining process and what
Speaker 1: that looks like live on air.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, exciting times. But yeah, I think I think
Speaker 2: I'm good. I feel like I hit all my notes
Speaker 2: and some that I wasn't even planning on hitting because
Speaker 2: we had this new information, so.
Speaker 4: Right, good lord, that was like we couldn't have been
Speaker 4: like an hour earlier, so I could have at least well,
Speaker 4: you know, you can join us next for the live
Speaker 4: analysis of the over three hundred page contract.
Speaker 2: That we got, like just the highlights.
Speaker 1: Of Oh yeah, but thank you you both for thank
Speaker 1: you both for coming on. And yeah, I guess I
Speaker 1: guess if the strike happens, we can talk to you
Speaker 1: again or maybe also if it doesn't, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely absolutely thank you for having us on. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I love to stay in contact to talk about if
Speaker 2: we do go on strike or you know, if we don't,
Speaker 2: would love I would absolutely be open to a follow
Speaker 2: up on that.
Speaker 1: And yeah, okay, so where can people go if they
Speaker 1: want to support like the strike or also potentially the
Speaker 1: rake and file workers who are trying to like make
Speaker 1: sure it happens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that a good place to follow,
Speaker 2: or like a good source I guess to follow would
Speaker 2: be to follow the team Service for a Democratic Union.
Speaker 2: If there is going to be any movement that is
Speaker 2: in the union that's organized, it's going to be coming
Speaker 2: from them most likely, So they are the better version
Speaker 2: I would say to follow on that front. And of
Speaker 2: course you can still follow the regular Teamsters page and
Speaker 2: stuff like that to see what's going on. But yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's gonna be weird. I don't know what the TDU
Speaker 2: line is going to is going to be on this, so.
Speaker 4: It's like we'll see and you know, hopefully, you know,
Speaker 4: if we can strike obviously, Yeah, come out to yeah,
Speaker 4: support your fellow workers, and you too will also be
Speaker 4: able to coordinate, you know, with rank and file on
Speaker 4: union reps, you know what kind of needs there might
Speaker 4: be out on the picket line.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Also and yeah, thank you yeah very much for
Speaker 3: having us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for coming on. Yeah, this has been
Speaker 1: nicking up here. Go on strike, don't let your leadership
Speaker 1: tell you not to go on strike. Simply do the
Speaker 1: big and organize so you could do it again.
Speaker 2: It could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.
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Speaker 2: find sources for It could Happen Here, updated monthly at
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