Speaker 1: Warning, today's episode can date spoilers for Plurists episode three.
Speaker 2: They're Grenade. Be warned.
Speaker 1: Hello, my name is Jason Concepcion and on Merseay Night
Speaker 1: and welcome back to extra.
Speaker 2: Visions of podcast. Will be divetue to your favorite shows.
Speaker 2: Move becomes pot culture call we ye our prodcucts. We're
Speaker 2: ready three episodes weekday.
Speaker 3: In today's episode, it's Pluribus episode three, we will be
Speaker 3: recapping it and then bringing Ian in to join.
Speaker 4: The combo and a quick production note.
Speaker 3: Guys, remember this holiday season we are sharing some stocking
Speaker 3: stuffer episodes. With so many great shows, movies and TV
Speaker 3: thinger the Jiggy's coming out these next few months. These
Speaker 3: episodes will help us cover some extra content we wouldn't
Speaker 3: be able to get on our normal episodes, So stay
Speaker 3: tuned for our stocking stuffers starting the week Thanksgiving.
Speaker 1: Okay, episode three The Grenade. We open somewhere very very
Speaker 1: very cold.
Speaker 2: It is.
Speaker 1: In the past years in the past, two thousand, six
Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen days in the past to be to
Speaker 1: be exact seven years, thank you, seven years before the
Speaker 1: outbreak in one of those ice hotels like in Norway
Speaker 1: or Scandinavia, somewhere Caroly and Helen are checking in being
Speaker 1: shown to their room, the Koi suite. It is, of course,
Speaker 1: very fucking cold. Carol is looking very suspiciously at all
Speaker 1: of this and is clearly not sold on the idea
Speaker 1: the experience, the whole thing. Helen is couldn't be more enthused.
Speaker 1: Is really really blown away, And you know, look at
Speaker 1: the ice sculptures, aren't they Maybe the ice sculptures.
Speaker 2: Were really quite striking.
Speaker 4: It was very beautiful, and.
Speaker 1: You know, as the scene goes on, it's very clear
Speaker 1: like Carol hates this or is most of the way
Speaker 1: to fully hating, while Helen is like, this is so cool,
Speaker 1: this is awesome, Like can't you just chill out, Helen.
Speaker 1: We learn talk to someone named Val, who we don't
Speaker 1: know who she is yet, and learned from Val probably
Speaker 1: their publicist or their book editor or you know whoever
Speaker 1: their direct connection is with the publisher that Carol's latest
Speaker 1: book is on the bestseller list. It's on the New
Speaker 1: York Times bestseller list. Where on the list Carol wants,
Speaker 1: specifically where top twenty? Well, is it closer to twenty
Speaker 1: or is.
Speaker 2: It like more like eleven?
Speaker 1: And Helen doesn't want to specify, but stresses to Carol, like, listen,
Speaker 1: you're a bestseller. You can credibly say I'm a best
Speaker 1: selling author.
Speaker 2: Enjoy that.
Speaker 1: Don't worry about where specifically, look at the northern lights
Speaker 1: through this ice skylight and just enjoy it.
Speaker 3: Very clear from this that Carol cannot enjoy anything, and
Speaker 3: even before I mean this is to show us like
Speaker 3: she is always she even when she was with someone
Speaker 3: she loved, she struggled to enjoy it.
Speaker 1: We'll talk about that more later, because I think that
Speaker 1: that this scene shows an acknowledgment of something about Carol
Speaker 1: that m hm. Very clearly Vince Gilligan and the creators
Speaker 1: and the people writing the show understand. And I'm interested.
Speaker 1: It's interested to see the balance they strike me.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: In the present day post hive mind, Carol is flying
Speaker 3: somewhere with Zosha. Zosha wonders, well, why don't you want
Speaker 3: to stay in first class? We got the whole plane.
Speaker 3: Carol is, of course, sat at the back, next to
Speaker 3: the toilet, in the worst seat on the plane. Carol
Speaker 3: decides the best way to spend this time is to
Speaker 3: grill Zosha on all the non English speaking individuals who
Speaker 3: are immune to the virus that she has not yet met.
Speaker 3: Carol is interested, are they like, is any of them
Speaker 3: doctors or scientists? And then there's the guy from Paraguay,
Speaker 3: who I feel like is gonna definitely be a massive
Speaker 3: part of this story, yes, who they just didn't know
Speaker 3: about for thirty six hours and will not pick up
Speaker 3: the phone and is not at any point been in
Speaker 3: contact with the hive mine.
Speaker 4: So she's like, this seems like we should just try him.
Speaker 3: Obviously, Carol decides she's gonna do that, and she's like,
Speaker 3: fuck it, and Zosha says, j you want us to
Speaker 3: translate you? Nope, She's fine, calls up. Carol speaks bad Spanish,
Speaker 3: she calls her hor and hangs up.
Speaker 4: She calls back and.
Speaker 3: Is like, fuck your mum, asshole and setting up a
Speaker 3: great friendship there.
Speaker 4: Clearly.
Speaker 3: Carolyn goes to the bathroom tied out. I really did
Speaker 3: like this scene. I felt like this is one of
Speaker 3: the strongest scenes in the episode because the episode is
Speaker 3: all about this vast space that she is now inhabiting
Speaker 3: as like one of the only people. Because we don't
Speaker 3: really know where other people are unless they are there.
Speaker 3: What theyreserve Carol doing like ups is working if Carol
Speaker 3: needs it, or the airplane is working if Carol needs it.
Speaker 4: But anyone can do those jobs, so we don't know
Speaker 4: where most people are.
Speaker 3: So I love this scene where she's just trying to
Speaker 3: be in the smallest space possible.
Speaker 4: Away from them.
Speaker 3: Eventually, you know, Soosha drops her back at the house,
Speaker 3: so she gives her her mail. There is a box
Speaker 3: and there is a bill with Helen's name on it,
Speaker 3: again telling us more about this obviously incredibly close relationship.
Speaker 3: And finally she opens the box and it is a
Speaker 3: parra gun.
Speaker 1: Carol calls Zosha regarding the box, and I was like,
Speaker 1: what's up with this box? What's up with the thera gun?
Speaker 1: And this the theragun is from a conversation that she
Speaker 1: had with Helen before the end of tour, basically saying, oh,
Speaker 1: I love that thing, and you know.
Speaker 4: They tried it out and like it.
Speaker 1: They tried it out, Yeah, but Helen didn't get a
Speaker 1: chance to order it for her and had intended to.
Speaker 1: And so now the hive mind has done it for Helen,
Speaker 1: who is part of them, right. Carol flips out but
Speaker 1: manages to keep it you know, below the level of
Speaker 1: fritzing out the entire hive mind. And she's like, listen,
Speaker 1: I order you delete everything you know about Helen. Don't
Speaker 1: stop using Helen's thoughts and memories to do anything for me.
Speaker 2: I don't want that.
Speaker 1: She takes a bunch of pills. She's watching The Golden
Speaker 1: Girls when the doorbell rings and it's a room service
Speaker 1: platter brought by the hive mind. Carol is mad about it,
Speaker 1: feeling like she does want to be infantalized by this
Speaker 1: highlind Right.
Speaker 2: She calls Zosha A Zosha says, do you recognize it?
Speaker 1: It's like the same meal that you guys had at
Speaker 1: this bed and breakfast in Provincetown from a specific memory
Speaker 1: of you and Helen on vacation in Provincetown. And again
Speaker 1: Carol's upset. It is like, didn't I tell you to
Speaker 1: stop using Helen's memories? Did I tell you that? And
Speaker 1: she's like, listen, leave me alone, and then.
Speaker 2: She throws up the room service.
Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and we'll be
Speaker 1: right back as we continue.
Speaker 4: To cover her purpose.
Speaker 2: And we're back.
Speaker 1: So now Helen needs dinner because she threw out the
Speaker 1: room service. So she goes to Sprouts, but the place
Speaker 1: is like stripped, totally gone, stripped.
Speaker 3: Bear everything's there that needs to be there to run
Speaker 3: a Sprouts, but there are no products products they want,
Speaker 3: no fruit, no produce, nothing.
Speaker 1: So she calls Zosha's like, Zosh, what the fuck is
Speaker 1: up at this? And she said, well, you know, like
Speaker 1: obviously the world runs differently now, right, and so we've
Speaker 1: kind of centralized our food supplies for more efficient distribution
Speaker 1: across the country. And Carol's like, well, fuck that shit.
Speaker 1: Open my fucking sprouts, man, open it up. Like when
Speaker 1: should I come back in two days or like a day.
Speaker 1: She's in the store making this call on the landline.
Speaker 1: It's like, so when should I come back, like next week?
Speaker 2: Two days?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 2: And Soosha's like, no, no, no, we're coming now.
Speaker 1: She goes outside and the trucks are pulling up right then.
Speaker 3: Mm hmmm, crazy stuff And we see the whole store
Speaker 3: go from empty to set up in about twenty minutes.
Speaker 3: Then Carol goes shopping and returns time to watch Golden Girls.
Speaker 3: I do have to make quick just brief commentary here, guys.
Speaker 3: I would never be upset about people giving me free groceries.
Speaker 4: I think she's too upset about it.
Speaker 3: I'm like, if I could have my own sprouts and
Speaker 3: they set it up for twenty minutes, I would at
Speaker 3: least have a tiny wonder in my eye. And I
Speaker 3: do think this is an issue that we are going
Speaker 3: to have going on with this show unless we learn
Speaker 3: some more about Carol, and we'll talk about that more.
Speaker 4: But yees specifically, like this is actually miraculous. It's not good.
Speaker 4: It's still creepy.
Speaker 3: They're doing it because they're a high mind, but like,
Speaker 3: who doesn't want free food? It's inflation, guys. She doesn't
Speaker 3: look like she's been doing great, Like I feel like
Speaker 3: she would be a little bit more excited about being
Speaker 3: able to eat. But yeah, she goes home, watches Golden
Speaker 3: Girls with her many groceries, and then her lights go out,
Speaker 3: and this is very interesting because she looks outside and
Speaker 3: then all the other lights are out.
Speaker 4: Then her lights go back on, but it's just lights.
Speaker 3: And you're starting to get more of a feeling now
Speaker 3: that they need the electricity for something, like what is
Speaker 3: their plan?
Speaker 4: It seems like maybe they want our resources.
Speaker 3: Zosia calls anyway, before we can get too into our
Speaker 3: theories or Carol can and she's like, hey, it was
Speaker 3: a mistake.
Speaker 4: Turned off your lights. The conservation.
Speaker 3: Everyone's lights will be on in like a staggered pattern,
Speaker 3: except for yours. Your power will be on whenever you
Speaker 3: want it. And is there anything that can make you happy?
Speaker 3: Like what can we do? That's all we care about.
Speaker 3: And Carol has a simple answer, because she's an angry woman.
Speaker 4: She says, a hand grenade.
Speaker 3: Okay, she's drink or drink or drink, you take your pills,
Speaker 3: puts golden girls back on, and of course thinks there
Speaker 3: will never be a hand grenade.
Speaker 4: She was being.
Speaker 1: Sarcasticck Sosha's car pulls up and she's got the grenade.
Speaker 1: She brought it, even though she was like we well,
Speaker 1: we weren't sure if you were serious, but you did
Speaker 1: ask for us, so we brought it. So Carol invites
Speaker 1: Soshian for a drink and she wants to know, like, okay,
Speaker 1: like if you get drunk the hive mind get drunk,
Speaker 1: how does that work? AND's like no, no, no, don't worry
Speaker 1: about that. Carol by bye, by the way, at this
Speaker 1: point is surely blasted. She's been throwing them back for pails.
Speaker 4: She's crossed.
Speaker 2: It's not good.
Speaker 1: And Zosha's like dropping crazy fun facts like a vodka
Speaker 1: and spirits, like did you know vodka is actually a
Speaker 1: shortened version for.
Speaker 2: The word for water in She's just dropping crazy, crazy,
Speaker 2: crazy cool.
Speaker 4: Wikipedia friend to have Zosia and the like I get it.
Speaker 1: So Carol wants to know how long she's got before
Speaker 1: the hive mind figures out how to assimilate her, and
Speaker 1: she's like, well, it could be could be as short
Speaker 1: as weeks, and could be as long as many months.
Speaker 4: You know, we don't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're working.
Speaker 1: On it around the clock, but clearly they're stumped. And
Speaker 1: Carol's like, yeah, but I don't want to be part
Speaker 1: of the hive mind, Like can't we just get that
Speaker 1: through our heads?
Speaker 2: Like I don't want it, And so.
Speaker 1: She's like, listen, I feel really bad about that, and
Speaker 1: I acknowledge your resistance and you're the fact that you
Speaker 1: object to this, but we do have a biological imperative,
Speaker 1: like we actually genetically can't not.
Speaker 2: Do that's what we do, you know.
Speaker 1: So Zosha argues that Carol needs this essentially like listen,
Speaker 1: you're doing terribly, like you're depressed, you're sad time you're
Speaker 1: doing pills. You don't know how to deal with your
Speaker 1: negative emotions, your trauma, your depression. That was the case
Speaker 1: before all of this, and it's certainly the case even
Speaker 1: more now. By assimilating you, we'll be saving you, like
Speaker 1: we'll be saving you and the best parts of you
Speaker 1: from being destroyed by the worst parts of you. Carol
Speaker 1: is you know, of course she's like angry and drunken
Speaker 1: on pills, and so it's hard for her to receive
Speaker 1: this information from a hive mind. Also, like what's your
Speaker 1: You've just mentioned you have a by illogical imperative to
Speaker 1: assimilate me, so it's not like you're gonna be unbiased
Speaker 1: about this. And she begins monologue and Carol does about
Speaker 1: like all the places that she's experienced in her life
Speaker 1: that you know, and she talks about the Ice Hotel
Speaker 1: and Zosha finishes off, Oh yes, the Ice Hotel. The memory,
Speaker 1: and Carol like flips and she's like, I told you
Speaker 1: Helen's memories off limits. Stop doing that, and she gets
Speaker 1: really mad. She picks up the grenade, she pulls up
Speaker 1: pin oh, and like.
Speaker 5: This is She's like, that's oh sorry, no, no, no,
Speaker 5: It's just really funny because after she fiddles with the grenade,
Speaker 5: Zosh's like what they all wait a second, and Carol's pissed,
Speaker 5: like they gave her a fake grenade.
Speaker 3: But Carol just doesn't know how grenade works. So then
Speaker 3: Zosha jumps up, grabs it, throws out the window. It
Speaker 3: fucking explodes the whole front of her house. We get
Speaker 3: very breaking bad esque scene of this kind of mansion
Speaker 3: space in Albuquerque that's like on fire and the cars
Speaker 3: are on fire, and Carol like wanders out and shock.
Speaker 3: Zosha tries to follow her, but we see that her
Speaker 3: back is all fucked up from the shrapnel. I will
Speaker 3: say Carol actually does seem like she is upset and
Speaker 3: cares about this. In the moment she covers Zosha's back
Speaker 3: she tries to stop the bleeding. It's one of the
Speaker 3: first moments we really get her to see Carol being
Speaker 3: like an emotional kind of human being with connections. Carol then,
Speaker 3: you know, finds out luckily that Zosha is fine. She
Speaker 3: does have a concussion, which could interestingly bring some some
Speaker 3: theories into the conversation. When we bring an ian in
Speaker 3: a minute and via a handy delivery driver. Carol asks like,
Speaker 3: why did you give me the hand grenade? And she
Speaker 3: is kind of shocked to learn from this conversation that
Speaker 3: as long as she says it will make her happy,
Speaker 3: they will just give her whatever weapon she wants. They
Speaker 3: will give her a gun, they will give her a tank,
Speaker 3: they will give her a bazuka, they will give her
Speaker 3: whatever goes in a berzukra and has shot out a missile.
Speaker 3: She asks like, and she even asks if they will
Speaker 3: give her a nuke, and although they don't want to
Speaker 3: give it to her, they essentially admit that, yeah, we'll
Speaker 3: bring you a new if you need one.
Speaker 4: Which also which you know how to even set it off?
Speaker 4: I don't know. But basically, after what seems to be
Speaker 4: a pretty slow.
Speaker 3: Very small in scope episode, you get this huge explosion
Speaker 3: and then this realization from Carol that I'm guessing she
Speaker 3: can become essentially like a warlord and just take them down.
Speaker 3: That seems like what she wants to do, but also
Speaker 3: seems like it would be a huge jump. But I'm
Speaker 3: interested to see where this goes once again, and an
Speaker 3: intriguing end.
Speaker 2: Very intriguing.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and welcome in and then
Speaker 1: discuss this episode, and we are back. We're talking about
Speaker 1: episode three of Plour of Us. Let's now bring in
Speaker 1: super producer Ian to discuss this episode.
Speaker 4: Hello, how's it go?
Speaker 2: What do you think of this episode?
Speaker 6: I like the episode overall. It's not as not as
Speaker 6: spicy as the first two episodes, but I mean, I
Speaker 6: think by nature, the first two episodes were so insane
Speaker 6: and fantastical, especially just setting up the whole premise that
Speaker 6: this next episode was gonna be kind of maybe pumping
Speaker 6: the brakes a little bit. But I think that still
Speaker 6: had some really great moments and raise some interesting questions,
Speaker 6: like the sprout scene, that whole montage where they the
Speaker 6: trucks come in and they restock the store and you
Speaker 6: get to see like the peak like coordination and efficiency
Speaker 6: of the hive mind. Like, I thought that was a
Speaker 6: really fantastic sequence and scene. And I think the flashback
Speaker 6: at the beginning and the Ice Hotel gives us a
Speaker 6: little bit more insight into Carol as a person a character. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, she's always been like this, so there's there's
Speaker 6: something about her that I think maybe, you know, the
Speaker 6: reason that she might be immune may have something to
Speaker 6: do with you know her having like this even from
Speaker 6: the beginning. Maybe we'll learn more about that as the
Speaker 6: show goes on.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 4: I think that that's true.
Speaker 3: I would also see in something I thought was really
Speaker 3: cool that you noted was the way that when Helen died,
Speaker 3: she essentially loses any connection to anyone else in her
Speaker 3: life before the virus. I also wonder if that's part
Speaker 3: of it.
Speaker 6: Right, because all the other survivors have their family members
Speaker 6: or someone that they care about to still tether them to,
Speaker 6: you know, what life was like before the virus, and
Speaker 6: that they obviously still care about those people they don't
Speaker 6: want anything bad to happen to them. But Carol doesn't
Speaker 6: have anyone.
Speaker 4: So they'll go along with it exactly.
Speaker 6: But she doesn't really have anything to make her think like, oh,
Speaker 6: there's there's some positive to this, you know. But I
Speaker 6: also do think it's interesting that clearly she is starting
Speaker 6: to form some kind of attachment to Zosha. Clearly cares
Speaker 6: about her well being to some degree, Like when she
Speaker 6: got her, she tried to help her and save her.
Speaker 6: She wanted her to come with her instead of going
Speaker 6: on to Air Force One. She even invites her in
Speaker 6: a drink with her, like you know, so she's there
Speaker 6: is some kind of bond or connection there, So it'll
Speaker 6: be interesting to see how that continues to develop. But yeah,
Speaker 6: what did you guys think about the episode?
Speaker 4: It raised some issues.
Speaker 1: I liked this episode, although I think there are some issues.
Speaker 1: I think for me, the cold open is interesting literally
Speaker 1: cold actually physically cold open because it it it sets
Speaker 1: up the thesis of the show in a really interesting way,
Speaker 1: which is like, okay, the everything at your fingertips, but
Speaker 1: you're the our hero is like can literally can't be
Speaker 1: happy with anything. She can't be happy on vacation with
Speaker 1: the person she loves staring at the northern lights. She
Speaker 1: can't be happy when she's on the bestseller list because
Speaker 1: she's not number one on the best seller list.
Speaker 2: Right, nothing is going to make.
Speaker 1: Her feel as if she's worthy enough, she's good enough,
Speaker 1: what she's doing is enough, and so of course you're
Speaker 1: not gonna be happy with this. That said, there were
Speaker 1: multiple times during this episode, and that happened in the
Speaker 1: previous episodes to where I'm like, man, you're not going
Speaker 1: to solve this shit overnight.
Speaker 4: Like chill out, you know, like have a little bit
Speaker 4: more realism.
Speaker 1: Enjoy it a little bit like yeah, I'm not saying
Speaker 1: you need to get a harem, you know what I yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you know, like whatever, enjoy it, like go see.
Speaker 2: Go to a spa like relax it.
Speaker 1: Doesn't go call in one of the hive mind and
Speaker 1: be like tell me what everything that we knew about
Speaker 1: at UFOs, like do fun stuff?
Speaker 2: You know actual.
Speaker 4: You know what conspiracies are true or not?
Speaker 2: Everyone has that stuff.
Speaker 4: People have a bat. Yeah, all of that.
Speaker 1: Stuff is at your fingertips. And again, you're not going
Speaker 1: to fix the world overnight, so don't try to. And
Speaker 1: I do wonder, if I do wonder how this show
Speaker 1: will strike the balance of centering a character that is
Speaker 1: kind of like unlikable, is it irascable?
Speaker 2: Is frustrating? Is like not ever going to be be
Speaker 2: happy with things? Yeah?
Speaker 3: That was also the success of Breaking Bad, right, so
Speaker 3: we get why he's back here again, you know, but
Speaker 3: I definitely did have a similar feeling to Jason. I
Speaker 3: also spoke to some friends who are just kind of,
Speaker 3: you know, average like TV watchers, who wanted to check it,
Speaker 3: and they liked it and they were intrigued, but even
Speaker 3: by the second episode, they were finding Carol a little
Speaker 3: bit hard to like to follow or root for or
Speaker 3: kind of even understand.
Speaker 4: Like what her motives are.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm doing a screenwriting class right now. We
Speaker 3: talk a lot about the what, like what is her want? Like,
Speaker 3: I don't know what it is, but I'm guessing it's
Speaker 3: going to be to destroy the high mind, very traditional,
Speaker 3: classical sife I want. So I'm down, but I do
Speaker 3: feel like maybe this is a bit of an extreme
Speaker 3: shift for people who are not, you know, already fully
Speaker 3: sold because it's a really quiet episode. I also don't
Speaker 3: know if for me the writing is up to that
Speaker 3: one hundred percent quality that I need if I'm in
Speaker 3: like a bottle episode with just two people, you know,
Speaker 3: I feel like it wasn't fully there, But I do
Speaker 3: still I'm very interested. I want to know more about this.
Speaker 3: I also did think on a rewatch this morning, I
Speaker 3: was really feeling this notion of like this kind of
Speaker 3: is about We've talked a lot about algorithms and kind
Speaker 3: of this idea of complacency and comfort and how that
Speaker 3: can take away your initiative or even just your enjoyment
Speaker 3: of like you know that famous letter where it's the it's.
Speaker 4: Oh my god.
Speaker 3: It's one of those iconic, you know, old guy authors
Speaker 3: like William Burrows or someone like that, but not the
Speaker 3: one who killed his wife, but one of those guys
Speaker 3: I'm talking about, Like.
Speaker 4: Oh, I.
Speaker 3: Love going to buy stamps because I go out and
Speaker 3: when I buy stamps, I meet a person who is
Speaker 3: at the shop and I get to speak to someone
Speaker 3: and I pick up a treat on the way home.
Speaker 4: This is about how algorithms.
Speaker 3: And the notion of like ease can take that away
Speaker 3: from you. But I felt like this episode had a
Speaker 3: really interesting thing to say about basically right now, what
Speaker 3: Carol is dealing with is like if somebody you know
Speaker 3: dies and then your phone is constantly serving up those
Speaker 3: weird movies with emotional music behind them, and they're like
Speaker 3: best summer of your life, but it's like the year
Speaker 3: they died or something like. She's kind of living through
Speaker 3: that experience of they're trying to please her and understand
Speaker 3: how to connect with her emotionally, but it's just not working.
Speaker 3: I thought that was pretty cool thematic thread through this episode.
Speaker 1: I will also say that I felt as if, obviously
Speaker 1: the show the themes and the kind of ideas that
Speaker 1: this show is grappling with really interesting you know, whether it's.
Speaker 2: AI, the way AI has.
Speaker 1: Influenced our daily lives, the way we shop, the way
Speaker 1: we ask questions, the kind of instant, teneous gratification of
Speaker 1: like the Amazon economy. If I can get something right
Speaker 1: away that whatever you want, you can get it. I'll
Speaker 1: just can see, Yeah, I can see a movie, I
Speaker 1: can get a product, I can watch more like whatever
Speaker 1: it is exactly. And this was the first episode where
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I know it's about that, but
Speaker 1: we know, like you're making it too obviously that it's
Speaker 1: about that from and I will be interested to see
Speaker 1: how they balance it. That said, now, some interesting mysteries
Speaker 1: I think were kind of sprinkled throughout, one being this gentleman,
Speaker 1: this Paraguay gentleman. Oh sorry, were you going to say something.
Speaker 6: In yeah, just to kind of piggyback off of what
Speaker 6: Rosie was saying before we move on. You know about
Speaker 6: Carol being increasingly unlikable as the series goes on, which
Speaker 6: I think we'll learn more about why that happens. But
Speaker 6: I think going back to that sprout scene, I understand
Speaker 6: her defiance of like not wanting to eat the food,
Speaker 6: and she wants to shop for herself and stop making
Speaker 6: dishes from my memories. Which is funny that even though
Speaker 6: she's like stop thinking about Helen and her memories, they
Speaker 6: still have the memories of every other person she's ever
Speaker 6: interacted with, so like, oh, we know your coffee order
Speaker 6: because we know the barista's memories and we remember you
Speaker 6: love this breakfast and whatever. So it's like, no matter what,
Speaker 6: she can't escape from it. But I feel like when
Speaker 6: I was watching that Sprout scene where she was like,
Speaker 6: I want my sprouts back. I just want to shop
Speaker 6: for myself. I was like, low key, you're being like
Speaker 6: kind of selfish, straightness.
Speaker 5: Sanely selfish, and I think.
Speaker 6: You're gonna have them stock this entire store for you
Speaker 6: just to like buy some like frozen dinners. Because when
Speaker 6: it cuts back to her eating, she just had like
Speaker 6: a TV dinner. She'd even like make her food.
Speaker 1: And to your point, it's like the food is packaged
Speaker 1: out of your site, is harvested out of your site.
Speaker 1: The idea that like somehow because you are making it
Speaker 1: at home, you frosting it at home. Yeah, this guards
Speaker 1: you from whatever virus is out there.
Speaker 2: That's ridiculous.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Also, they she should cook the she should eat
Speaker 3: the cook food they cook for Aaron.
Speaker 4: This is one of his biggest takes away.
Speaker 3: And I agree because like she's drinking the water at
Speaker 3: any point, if they wanted to do this non consensually
Speaker 3: to they could of and they're trying to. But like,
Speaker 3: eating the food from them that they cook for you
Speaker 3: is no different than eating the nasty prepackaged meal that
Speaker 3: they could have injected food, like something into. And I
Speaker 3: do agree with you, Ian, like why couldn't she just
Speaker 3: have been like, hey, can you bring me a bag
Speaker 3: of groceries?
Speaker 4: Like I get it, aliens have taken over her whole planet.
Speaker 4: But yeah, she's a She's definitely, I think he.
Speaker 3: I think Vince would probably loved tar Us having this
Speaker 3: conversation because I'm sure him and Re talked consistently about
Speaker 3: like how far can you push like an unlikable woman
Speaker 3: on TV and.
Speaker 4: In a story like this.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I definitely I need to know more. I
Speaker 3: need to know the one. I need to know something.
Speaker 6: If you think about it, this whole scenario is essentially
Speaker 6: like her personal hell. She's already like the most like cantankerous,
Speaker 6: angry person, and then she realizes, like, I can't be angry,
Speaker 6: I'm gonna kill a bunch of people, So she has
Speaker 6: to like keep her shit under wraps. And it's like
Speaker 6: this is literally like her personal help.
Speaker 4: I like that read.
Speaker 3: So she's having to be unselfish in some ways, but
Speaker 3: the selfishness is still there. I mean, yeah, she needs
Speaker 3: to start thinking about these people, and I'm hoping she
Speaker 3: will post the grenade with Zosha. She needs to start
Speaker 3: realizing those are still human beings in like human bodies
Speaker 3: at least, you know, whatever hive mind situation there is,
Speaker 3: and she is essentially currently using them as servants.
Speaker 4: You know, let's start there. And yeah, it's not.
Speaker 6: Especially if she's trying to save them from the high mind.
Speaker 6: It's like they're gonna be regular people again after that.
Speaker 4: Isn't that the point?
Speaker 6: Isn't that the point? So, like what.
Speaker 3: I wonder if the art is gonna be in its
Speaker 3: own way after this conversation, a relatively simple one, which
Speaker 3: is simply like that journey of going from I want
Speaker 3: to destroy everything to realizing like, oh maybe there's some
Speaker 3: stuff I shouldn't destroy, you know, which I think for
Speaker 3: angry people is a really and people have sort of
Speaker 3: struggled with severe depression like I have, like the feeling
Speaker 3: of hopelessness and the void and there's no one out
Speaker 3: there for you. It can be changed simply by just
Speaker 3: like having a nice cup of tea with your friends
Speaker 3: and you're like, ah, life's worth living again. I wish
Speaker 3: I fucking had left my house six months before this
Speaker 3: or whatever. And I think I would love to see
Speaker 3: her go on that journey. We don't expect Carol to
Speaker 3: become like the world's nicest person, that's not the point.
Speaker 3: But I would love to see her have some kind
Speaker 3: of personal growth on this journey.
Speaker 1: For sure. That must happen, right, because I do think
Speaker 1: this very clearly. The show is asking you to be
Speaker 1: critical of her, you know, it's showing you moments from
Speaker 1: her life where she just can't be She can't She's mean.
Speaker 4: To the people who read her books.
Speaker 2: She's so them.
Speaker 4: She doesn't respect herself.
Speaker 2: Even like the sprouts thing is.
Speaker 1: So Boomerish in it's like in the way that she's
Speaker 1: clinging to this idea that she could somehow.
Speaker 2: Isolate herself from the virus by.
Speaker 3: And ignore all this bad stuff that's happening to other
Speaker 3: people if she can keep her normal life going.
Speaker 4: That's actually pretty deep.
Speaker 5: So.
Speaker 2: She must.
Speaker 1: All of which is to say there there will be
Speaker 1: some personal growth because there she's gonna learn how to
Speaker 1: how to use the mechanisms of the Hive Mind in
Speaker 1: a way that will will better allow her to fulfill
Speaker 1: I guess some sort of vision that is to free
Speaker 1: people from this.
Speaker 3: I think, actually, you guys are sparking something in my
Speaker 3: head where I think part of what we're seeing right
Speaker 3: now is her inability to enjoy it and her inability
Speaker 3: to have somebody they can bribe her with, like, oh,
Speaker 3: your family's already here, Helen's already here. That doesn't work.
Speaker 3: She knows she saw Helen die. It's gonna be harder
Speaker 3: for them to find a way to get her to
Speaker 3: do it. So I think that is going to also
Speaker 3: be like the growth is by the end, does she
Speaker 3: have someone in her life that she would be willing
Speaker 3: to join the Hive Mind four, which gives out even
Speaker 3: more reason to fight for them to do.
Speaker 2: I think there's also.
Speaker 1: There's an interesting thing here of it's not the show
Speaker 1: is not inviting you to ask Carol to surrender, but
Speaker 1: it's also for me asking you to wonder if, like
Speaker 1: what odds, at what odds are a battle worth fighting?
Speaker 1: Like the entire world is this way? Okay, you don't
Speaker 1: like it, it's wrong on probably several different levels. But everybody,
Speaker 1: literally everybody who is alive, is part of this and
Speaker 1: agrees with what's going on. So do you care about
Speaker 1: their opinion or do you care about yours? How much
Speaker 1: can you change a world that you don't agree with?
Speaker 1: And how much should you try and change a world
Speaker 1: that you don't agree with? I think all those things
Speaker 1: are really interesting. Yeah, let's talk about because I do
Speaker 1: think that the show gives us, like a breadcrumb that
Speaker 1: it might be possible with this guy from Paraguay.
Speaker 4: That's definitely well.
Speaker 1: I think the fact that it took them thirty six
Speaker 1: hours to find him leads you to believe that maybe
Speaker 1: he was under the influence of the hive mind but
Speaker 1: got out of it somehow, and got out of it
Speaker 1: in a way that is so quirky, weird and uncommon
Speaker 1: that only one this only happened once. Like, it's not
Speaker 1: like a Felon hit, because if it was the zosia
Speaker 1: thing with a concussion that could bring you out of it,
Speaker 1: how many people in the world probably had concussion from
Speaker 1: just like four when it had Yeah, yeah, five hundred million,
Speaker 1: right it like, so there should be a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of people if it was that. So it's
Speaker 1: got to be such a weird set of circumstances that
Speaker 1: allowed him to escape.
Speaker 2: And I can't.
Speaker 1: Wait to because we literally have no information, but I
Speaker 1: feel like it must be that. What is your thoughts
Speaker 1: about this guy and what it portends for the story?
Speaker 6: Well, based on that phone call, we can tell he's
Speaker 6: also kind of like an angry, cantankerous son of a bitch,
Speaker 6: So I do think there is something to that thread
Speaker 6: where like all the people that immune, there's some character
Speaker 6: trait or something about them that predisposes them to being immune.
Speaker 6: So I think we can tell from the phone call
Speaker 6: he's skeptical, doesn't want anything to do with the hive mind,
Speaker 6: he's an angry son of a bitch, So I think
Speaker 6: there's gonna be something there with that.
Speaker 1: Ian yes to push back, I thought about that too,
Speaker 1: but like, how many cantankerists, angry niche people that you
Speaker 1: can't satisfy are there, Like it's gotta be even.
Speaker 6: More's be something deeper than that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, so interested in what it is because I
Speaker 3: do think the Paraguay guy is the wrinkle I'm living
Speaker 3: for right now, because I do think he could be
Speaker 3: a NASA librarian or archivist who's kind of had always
Speaker 3: thought about something like this, or he could be a prepper,
Speaker 3: or he could be a conspiracy theorist, or he could
Speaker 3: just be someone who's a survivalist. He could be a
Speaker 3: homeless guy, and that's why they could find him, because
Speaker 3: he's not like easily, he doesn't have a lot of
Speaker 3: interconnected personal you know, ways that people can remember.
Speaker 4: Him or recall him. So I'm I'm most interested for that.
Speaker 3: I would love for episode four to be focused on him,
Speaker 3: or at least give us a little bit more insight there,
Speaker 3: because I can imagine it's probably gonna be an interesting
Speaker 3: casting and they'll probably drop him near the end of
Speaker 3: the season, but I would like to know more about
Speaker 3: that sooner rather than later.
Speaker 1: I think it's got Yeah, it's gotta be like genetically
Speaker 1: predisposed to being immune, plus some fluky weird set of
Speaker 1: He was tying his shoe while eating bubble while chewing
Speaker 1: bubble gum while thinking about this, while like touching his
Speaker 1: eye with his like pinky finger, and some weird, very
Speaker 1: very rare fluky combination of all those things allowed him
Speaker 1: to like snap out of it. And we're gonna that,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing is gonna be careful.
Speaker 2: I love that.
Speaker 4: I'm very how did you do it?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 2: What happened? Do you remember what happens?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 4: That makes so much sense.
Speaker 3: And then together they're trying to work out how they
Speaker 3: can snap people out of it.
Speaker 4: That's going to be really interesting.
Speaker 3: And how much of it are they going to be
Speaker 3: able to get done in season one because they already
Speaker 3: approved season two?
Speaker 4: True?
Speaker 2: So how many you'll go ahead?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Anything good?
Speaker 6: I think. Another interesting thing to that we kind of
Speaker 6: briefly touched on, but I want to talk about a
Speaker 6: little bit more, is you know this compulsion that the
Speaker 6: high mind has to assimilate everyone. They keep saying it's
Speaker 6: it's a biological directive. We like have to do it,
Speaker 6: We're compelled to do it. And even though Carol's like,
Speaker 6: but you say, my life is my own, you know,
Speaker 6: but how long? And once you figure it out? Like
Speaker 6: what then you know?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 6: And and that drowning metaphor that Zosha used, I think
Speaker 6: is really interesting because from their perspective, it's almost like
Speaker 6: an act of compassion, like we're trying to help you,
Speaker 6: We're trying to save you, Like why wouldn't you want
Speaker 6: to be a part of this? But it still has
Speaker 6: that sinister undertone of like gonna get this work no
Speaker 6: matter what. So it's like I just yeah, how they
Speaker 6: balance that will be interesting to see, you know.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the biggest thing is is like, there's
Speaker 3: so it's such, it's an it's a fantastically simple, out
Speaker 3: there concept.
Speaker 4: But now we're already three episodes. We're only three episodes.
Speaker 3: In, and I already need to know more about law.
Speaker 3: I need to know more about how it happens. I
Speaker 3: need to know more about what is driving people. I
Speaker 3: need to know either I either need to know what's
Speaker 3: driving the Hive Mind or what striving But either way,
Speaker 3: what's the want? And yeah, and I'm I'm unclear, but
Speaker 3: I'm still vibing.
Speaker 1: Do we have any theories about the end goal of
Speaker 1: the Hive Mind?
Speaker 2: I have one. Here's my is this is there is a.
Speaker 1: Uh, some sort of being. Maybe it's like a supercomputer, right,
Speaker 1: some kind of space super AI that was built by
Speaker 1: other creatures.
Speaker 2: Or whatever.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, like a supreme intelligence or some kind of thing,
Speaker 1: an alien something. And the way it reproduces is by
Speaker 1: seating this RNA virus to other biological so that they can,
Speaker 1: as one mass harness a planet's entire like resource tree
Speaker 1: to build another one to make another one that and
Speaker 1: then it bursts another baby super computer and then it
Speaker 1: keeps spreading like fantastic.
Speaker 4: Honestly, that would be such a brilliant way.
Speaker 2: But I feel like we'll never find out.
Speaker 1: I feel like I feel like it's gonna be one
Speaker 1: of those where Vince is gonna never really tell us
Speaker 1: what is behind all this.
Speaker 2: Do you have a theory in.
Speaker 6: I mean, I was thinking something similar, you know. I think, yeah,
Speaker 6: once everyone is fully assimilated, they're just gonna, like you said,
Speaker 6: use all the resource on the planet to continue spreading
Speaker 6: this virus from world to world to what end. I'm
Speaker 6: still kind of unsure what like they could possibly want
Speaker 6: with that, but yeah, I was thinking something similar. I'd
Speaker 6: be very curious to see, like, yeah, like once everyone
Speaker 6: is assimilar, like then what you know, because they.
Speaker 3: Use them to terraform the planet so that other aliens
Speaker 3: can come. Jason, I like your idea where it's more
Speaker 3: about just creating entire planets of people to just build
Speaker 3: more supercomputers that have this, you know, ability to run
Speaker 3: because we know how much water and memory and energy
Speaker 3: they take. So I think, I think that's a really
Speaker 3: cool and I think it's gonna be hard to top that.
Speaker 1: Well, a very fun show to talk about. I can't
Speaker 1: wait to keep watching it. Coming up on the next
Speaker 1: episode of x ra Vision, we're diving into it Welcome
Speaker 1: to Dairy, episode four recapping Stranger Things season four two
Speaker 1: shows that if you like one, you'll probably like the other.
Speaker 1: And then we're off to see the Wizard with our
Speaker 1: Wicked for Good, the sequel to Wicked coming out soon,
Speaker 1: our coverage of Wicked for Good. That's it for this episode.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, Bye bye. X ray Vision is hosted
Speaker 1: by Jason SEPs Young and Rosie Knight and is a
Speaker 1: production of iHeart Podcast.
Speaker 3: Our executive producers are just Al Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Our supervising producer is Abu Zafar.
Speaker 3: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1: A theme song is by Brian Vasquez, with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 3: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 3: Heidi our discord moderator,