Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeart Radio and fair
Speaker 1: Weather Friends Media.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 3: Today's episode TV fomo I r L. You haven't been
Speaker 3: watching a show and see the characters experiencing something that
Speaker 3: you never experienced and be like, I.
Speaker 4: Ain't never had that ever happened to me.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to see what that be like, right, Dno. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they be living their best lives and I'm just over
Speaker 1: here watching them from my average life.
Speaker 3: But I mean, you don't have to just sit and watch.
Speaker 3: You could could what you know, use those characters as
Speaker 3: a blueprint and do what they're doing.
Speaker 1: So you're saying I should mimic a TV show in
Speaker 1: my real life.
Speaker 3: I mean when you saying like that.
Speaker 4: So how would you say it?
Speaker 3: Like you never seen something on TV or a movie
Speaker 3: or read something in a book and thought, I want
Speaker 3: that to happen to me. Yeah, for sure I have.
Speaker 3: Who hasn't exactly our inspires. It's so hard not to
Speaker 3: compare our lives to the storylines we see on the
Speaker 3: screen and on the page.
Speaker 1: But unlike television and movies, real life doesn't give us
Speaker 1: second takes our fetus lines. There are no copy editors
Speaker 1: or fact checkers, and our day to day lives.
Speaker 3: In this week's episode, we'll look back at the times
Speaker 3: we compared our lives to fictional storylines and we're in for.
Speaker 5: A rude awakening.
Speaker 1: We'll explore the potential negative impacts of life attempting to
Speaker 1: imitate art with doctor Joy Harden Bradford of Therapy for
Speaker 1: Black Girls.
Speaker 3: I'm Katie, the author of the forthcoming anthology about black
Speaker 3: bookstores in the United States, Prose to the People.
Speaker 1: And I'm Eves, a writer, a yoga teacher and student,
Speaker 1: and a person who loves to be outdoors.
Speaker 3: We talk a lot about how stories have impacted us.
Speaker 1: Yes, we have an entire podcast dedicated to black storytelling indeed.
Speaker 3: Fact, and I've been thinking about the way storytelling can
Speaker 3: negatively impact us, like not in a traumatic way, but
Speaker 3: kind of in a bum us out, give us fellmo
Speaker 3: type of way.
Speaker 1: Fear of missing out is real, But that phrase usually
Speaker 1: comes up when people are talking about social media.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is its own form of storytelling. Like you
Speaker 3: see someone having a great time in Bali, and now
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you want to go to Bali.
Speaker 3: Can't point to Bali on the map, but you want
Speaker 3: a flower.
Speaker 1: Baths Okay, that's really specific.
Speaker 4: But it was a self track, gotcha.
Speaker 3: But I found myself judging people who, from my perspective,
Speaker 3: were copying other people's lives they saw on social media
Speaker 3: then posting.
Speaker 4: It on social media.
Speaker 3: But after doing so much needed self reflection, I came
Speaker 3: to the conclusion that I do that too, using social
Speaker 3: media and more traditional forms of media.
Speaker 4: I can see the vacation thing.
Speaker 1: It is giving out being adventurous and you're sitting at
Speaker 1: home on the couch like you always do, not going
Speaker 1: to div university.
Speaker 3: A little made outfit.
Speaker 4: Right? Wait?
Speaker 3: What it was a love and hip hop reference only
Speaker 3: the real name only?
Speaker 4: So you are you left you?
Speaker 1: I'm loose. I'm floating in the universe. There's nothing but
Speaker 1: ether around me and darkness. Hey, I don't be watching
Speaker 1: reality TV anyway, So, like, what storylines from TV left
Speaker 1: you feeling disappointed? Is it easier for TV shows to
Speaker 1: leave you feeling disappointed as compared to social media?
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think TV shows really do it
Speaker 3: for me. Like, sure, the conflict you know they have
Speaker 3: is often wrapped up nicely at some point, and they
Speaker 3: might have like a special destination episode or whatever. But generally,
Speaker 3: what you're watching on TV is their quote unquote normal lives.
Speaker 3: So I'm like, I want my normal life to be
Speaker 3: like this. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're really going along for the ride with them,
Speaker 1: like you have more time that you spend with them,
Speaker 1: And especially for longer series, every episode can be this
Speaker 1: huge special day. There has to be a lot more
Speaker 1: filler and just a lot more things that happened in general.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like the mundane things that I'd be like, wow,
Speaker 3: I can't even have the mundane things. For example, one
Speaker 3: thing that I found myself being disappointed by in my
Speaker 3: life comparing it to TV series was therapy, like talking
Speaker 3: to a therapist. Yeah, Like I had put it off
Speaker 3: for a year or two, but I kept seeing TV
Speaker 3: therapists work wonders for their clients, like they were so
Speaker 3: prepared for their sessions, deeply interested in seeing their clients improved,
Speaker 3: and their offices were cutes.
Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, it sounds like that wasn't your experience.
Speaker 3: Girl, not at all. I'm not even trying to be funny.
Speaker 3: I've had multiple therapists confuse me for other clients.
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, what.
Speaker 3: About what about your pet dogs? Miss A Legg I'm like,
Speaker 3: what are you talking about?
Speaker 5: Wrong?
Speaker 3: Bit Yeah, yeah, like the therapists I've had were nothing
Speaker 3: like therapists On Insecure.
Speaker 2: Two weeks ago, you said things should be easier for
Speaker 2: me as a successful black woman, and another time you
Speaker 2: said things should have fallen into place by now. Is
Speaker 2: there a certain way you think your life should go? Oh?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I do have specific life goals, and
Speaker 1: I think that if you work hard, then it is
Speaker 1: shot to.
Speaker 2: Yield certain results. There's a medical term called magical thinking,
Speaker 2: when we believe what we want can influence the external
Speaker 2: world as opposed to accepting things as they are.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can really tell that the therapist is keyed
Speaker 1: into bally bringing up something that she said two weeks
Speaker 1: ago to establish a pattern introducing medical terms.
Speaker 3: See and for me, you know, we came into adulthood
Speaker 3: when folks were openly embracing therapy. So I had this
Speaker 3: notion that I should go look at me. Sounded like Moley,
Speaker 3: but it was depictions like this. It made me think
Speaker 3: that a therapist would really help me.
Speaker 1: I can see how that's disappointing, because therapy is one
Speaker 1: of those things that it's hard to understand before you
Speaker 1: try it yourself. So these fictional portrayals make sense to
Speaker 1: use as an example for someone who hasn't been.
Speaker 3: Before my thoughts exactly. It's weird to ask someone you know, like,
Speaker 3: how's your therapy session, which I'll talk about. How did
Speaker 3: that make you feel?
Speaker 1: I've been wanted to though, honestly, but it is a
Speaker 1: little weird, you.
Speaker 3: Know, just a little bit. And because of the nature
Speaker 3: of therapy. When a therapist shows up in a show,
Speaker 3: they're mostly there to help a main character with a
Speaker 3: personal conundrum or reach an epiphany, and you were hoping
Speaker 3: you'd find a therapist who do the same for you. Yes, girl,
Speaker 3: main character energy. But alas, life isn't a story, and
Speaker 3: I am not a character. I am a nonfictional person.
Speaker 3: Say it out loud, I'm a nonfictional person.
Speaker 1: So how did you handle that disappointment with your therapist?
Speaker 1: Did you shop around?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I stop seeing my therapists for reasons related more to
Speaker 3: capitalism and America's messed up healthcare system. I mean, I
Speaker 3: thought about getting another one, but the thought of having
Speaker 3: to let someone else get to know me and my
Speaker 3: issues was too exhausting.
Speaker 1: What about you?
Speaker 3: Do you have a life imitating art moment.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I do for sure. I mean, speaking of insecure,
Speaker 1: one thing that I see on TV a lot that
Speaker 1: just has not been my experience is the large but
Speaker 1: somehow close knit friend group. You know, sometimes it's a
Speaker 1: pretty big group, like six people, and sometimes there's like
Speaker 1: a base of three or four people and then a
Speaker 1: concentric circle around that Kora folks. But either way, the
Speaker 1: group of friends is close. I mean they all know
Speaker 1: each other super well and have for a while, and
Speaker 1: a lot of instances they can hit each other up
Speaker 1: in the wee hours of the morning about anything. They're
Speaker 1: down for last minute plans. They go on vacations together,
Speaker 1: they move cities, countries and stay friends, and they be
Speaker 1: doing stuff like having immediate urgent group calls about drama
Speaker 1: that's going down in that very moment, and also the
Speaker 1: drama a lot of times isn't even that urgent, and
Speaker 1: they still be picking up the phone. They're always debriefing
Speaker 1: and whatnot.
Speaker 4: Like in this clip from twenties, this is the first
Speaker 4: partament I re upholstered for you.
Speaker 1: Now it's ruined, yelling Chuck so he can come help
Speaker 1: us pack up.
Speaker 5: We aren't packing up, Okay, we are going to centa Spiel,
Speaker 5: I am ready to get my life from all about e.
Speaker 3: You just got evicted and you trying to go sit.
Speaker 5: On the grass and watch a movie, yes.
Speaker 1: Or like living single girlfriends Harlem, et cetera. The examples
Speaker 1: of this go on where there are friend groups that
Speaker 1: are relatively large but still very close knit.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think something that ours both have in common
Speaker 3: is like wanting to be like really known by somebody
Speaker 3: and feeling like.
Speaker 4: Is this the therapist?
Speaker 3: Okay, let's tell me what yo daddy is. But I mean,
Speaker 3: as someone who's known you for a long time, I'm
Speaker 3: surprised that this was your example because I see you
Speaker 3: as having that. I'm like, yeah, like, you know, you
Speaker 3: have your college friends and y'all be having all joint
Speaker 3: birthday parties and going out the country together, and I'm great,
Speaker 3: what's going on?
Speaker 1: I thought that was?
Speaker 4: I thought that was it was.
Speaker 3: So it's interesting that you, like don't experience it that way.
Speaker 4: I really don't.
Speaker 1: I don't because I guess when I see it. And
Speaker 1: maybe that is the whole the fact that a TV
Speaker 1: show has a whole mythology around it, and as an
Speaker 1: industry created just make these specific moments look like this,
Speaker 1: But to me, it feels like the friend groups they
Speaker 1: all mesh in a way differently than my friend grops mesh.
Speaker 1: I feel like everything is segmented for me, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like this, Yeah, I have these friends that I
Speaker 1: do this thing with, and I have these friends over
Speaker 1: here who I do this with. But for me, in shows,
Speaker 1: it feels like those friend groups every thotty crisscrossed. It's
Speaker 1: like a big web and everything meets in the center.
Speaker 1: And also I also think like the logistics work differently
Speaker 1: in the shows.
Speaker 4: I think this is like I got to schedule this.
Speaker 1: I've been trying for a month to get with these
Speaker 1: two friends at the same time and it hasn't worked
Speaker 1: out because our schedules are very misaligned.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and we don't.
Speaker 1: Be group calling at all now, Like there's just a
Speaker 1: level of synergy in kinship that I don't feel like
Speaker 1: I have in the same way that I see in shows.
Speaker 1: It feels very flowery and it feels very poetic in
Speaker 1: shows in ways that it doesn't feel like in my life.
Speaker 1: And so I don't want to make it seem like
Speaker 1: I don't have people I love in my life. And
Speaker 1: then I'm close to it just doesn't work the same
Speaker 1: way that I seen in shows, and I find myself
Speaker 1: like being like that looks really nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you don't see the Hey can you
Speaker 3: can you come out here? Oh no, Like you don't
Speaker 3: see that back and forth like that, all the logistics
Speaker 3: of having that prime group and all that meeting of
Speaker 3: like it's like, oh, I happen to be at the park.
Speaker 1: It seems so spontaneous and if everything's fresh and new,
Speaker 1: it's breezy.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's a good way to put it. It's a bittery.
Speaker 1: And of course shows are meant to be a spectacle,
Speaker 1: so TV storytellers want our eyes to be glued to
Speaker 1: the screen. Also, characters in their relationships they have to
Speaker 1: have some kind of spice and intrigue, so there has
Speaker 1: to be exposition, and they have to build a story's world.
Speaker 1: But dang, even when we know what we're watching is
Speaker 1: fiction and the storytellers are doing their damnedest to suspend
Speaker 1: our disbelief, it can be hard not to feel some
Speaker 1: longing for the lifestyles that you see. And there is
Speaker 1: psychological research around how people interact and bond with the
Speaker 1: fictional characters that they become attached to. In a twenty
Speaker 1: twelve study, researchers from Ohio State University use the term
Speaker 1: quote experience taking to describe the actions of readers who
Speaker 1: take on the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions of fictional characters.
Speaker 1: Sometimes we do actually let the attitudes and actions of
Speaker 1: fictional characters influence our real life decisions. And like for me,
Speaker 1: I see in these fictional friend groups that everything isn't
Speaker 1: always sweet. They make mistakes, get in fights, and they
Speaker 1: even break up, but still they share this deep kinship
Speaker 1: that even from the time I was a child, I
Speaker 1: think I imagined all adults having, but as an adult
Speaker 1: now it doesn't feel like that. And ooh, now that
Speaker 1: I think about it, there is a social media trap
Speaker 1: here too. Black girl friend group travel is such a thing.
Speaker 1: Folks be making it look all luxurious and drama free
Speaker 1: and the feed acting like they have one and a
Speaker 1: half fights every day but still giving us fomo.
Speaker 3: Yes, like speaking of like the big friend group, Like
Speaker 3: I've never been a part of one, but I've been
Speaker 3: like kind of those like special guest characters and like, oh,
Speaker 3: they come in for this episode a cameo. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: giving cameo, it's giving. We invited you because we did
Speaker 3: not have enough people and we needed to split this
Speaker 3: trip up better. But yeah, like being one the outside
Speaker 3: of the group but still being with them. You see,
Speaker 3: like this isn't even fun. Like it's fun on social media,
Speaker 3: but like being with y'all is not even fun. So like,
Speaker 3: why was I tripping off this?
Speaker 1: Also seeing that from a sober perspective, when I would
Speaker 1: imagine other everybody is not sober in those groups around.
Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, yeah, I need to start drinking, doing drugs,
Speaker 3: y'abby having fun.
Speaker 4: It's not gonna help. It's not gonna help.
Speaker 3: I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not the only
Speaker 3: ones who felt dejected when our life and experiences didn't
Speaker 3: live up to the characters we watch every week. So
Speaker 3: I wanted to bring in an expert to give us
Speaker 3: some insight on why we compare ourselves to fictional people,
Speaker 3: how that's impacting us, and some reframing techniques we might
Speaker 3: find helpful.
Speaker 1: When you say things like reframing techniques, it starts to
Speaker 1: make me feel like I really am in a therapy
Speaker 1: session already.
Speaker 3: Not quite, but we are going to be chatting with
Speaker 3: doctor Joy from Therapy for Black Girls right after the break.
Speaker 5: Hey, y'all, I'm doctor Joy Hard and Branford. I'm a
Speaker 5: psychologist in Atlanta and also the founder of Therapy for
Speaker 5: Black Girls. I'm also the author of Sisterhood Heals, The
Speaker 5: Transformative Power of Healing in Community.
Speaker 3: So, you know, we're watching TV, we're watching movies, even
Speaker 3: reading books, and we see something or like we want
Speaker 3: this to happen in our lives. My example was therapist.
Speaker 3: I watched Insecure, and you remember Molly's therapist. She was
Speaker 3: so good, her office was so cute. She had all
Speaker 3: the great insights for Mollie and listened to her and
Speaker 3: remember everything from last session, didn't mix her up with
Speaker 3: different clients. And I was like, I need to go
Speaker 3: to therapy and that's what my therapist is going to
Speaker 3: be like, and it just did not turn out like that,
Speaker 3: and I was very disappointed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So I actually thought that Molly's therapist was a
Speaker 5: good depiction of what therapy actually looks like, because I
Speaker 5: do feel like a lot of times television gets therapy wrong.
Speaker 5: Most often, I see like very inappropriate boundaries between therapists
Speaker 5: and clients, which typically doesn't happen in real life. But
Speaker 5: I actually thought Molly's therapists in terms of like not
Speaker 5: getting her mixed up and like tracking across sessions, like,
Speaker 5: I feel like that's kind of like the bare minimum.
Speaker 5: So I'm kind of sad to hear that that did
Speaker 5: not match up with your reality.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was too, honestly, doctor Joy when I heard
Speaker 1: Katie tell me this, I mean, I know about her
Speaker 1: some of the experiences she's had in therapy, so I
Speaker 1: feel like that sounds like a lot of people. You know,
Speaker 1: Katie and I are close enough for her to tell me, like,
Speaker 1: let me in on her experiences that she's hat with therapists.
Speaker 4: But I was thinking that too. I was like, yeah, like,
Speaker 4: isn't that what.
Speaker 1: They're supposed to do, like the least of what they're
Speaker 1: supposed to do.
Speaker 4: So I'm right there with you.
Speaker 3: Oh, I was like, well, Molly just had the best
Speaker 3: therapist ever.
Speaker 1: And that's round it coming from your perspective because that's
Speaker 1: the experience that you've had. Yeah yeah, but yeah, So
Speaker 1: so for me, it wasn't about therapy.
Speaker 2: For me.
Speaker 1: The thing that I saw not lining up with expectations
Speaker 1: and my reality when I was watching television was friend
Speaker 1: groups for me, one of the things that I saw
Speaker 1: expectation of, Like looking at these really lovely like relationships
Speaker 1: that these people had in these shows that are specifically
Speaker 1: black friend groups, I found that I didn't have that
Speaker 1: experience in real life, and I found myself like, I
Speaker 1: don't want that. That seems really nice, So there's some
Speaker 1: longing for it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that you shared that because I feel
Speaker 5: like I have very I mean clearly in my sisterhood
Speaker 5: bag right now, right because I'm all in the celebration
Speaker 5: of sisterhood heels. But I find that interesting that we're
Speaker 5: also celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of living single this year,
Speaker 5: and I feel like that is one of those shows
Speaker 5: that a lot of sisters go back to and say like, oh,
Speaker 5: this is what I felt like friends and friend groups
Speaker 5: were going to be like, and then the reality of
Speaker 5: it does not match. And I think we have to
Speaker 5: think about, you know, like what was happening in the
Speaker 5: world thirty years ago that is very different from now. Right,
Speaker 5: So there weren't cell phones, or if there were, like
Speaker 5: they weren't readily available like we have them now. People
Speaker 5: I think did maybe live in closer proximity to one another,
Speaker 5: and it just feels like they didn't have as many
Speaker 5: things that competed for their interests in time the way
Speaker 5: that we do now. And so when you see you know,
Speaker 5: all of them able to kind of go together for breakfast,
Speaker 5: it feels like they had like breakfast a lot together
Speaker 5: on the big single, which I think is cute, but
Speaker 5: you know, like be able to meet each other for
Speaker 5: breakfast before they go to work, and you know, all
Speaker 5: of that stuff like that doesn't take into consideration, like
Speaker 5: a commute and dropping kids off for daycare and like
Speaker 5: all of these things that I think are just very
Speaker 5: different about the world that we find ourselves in now.
Speaker 5: And I'm not surprised to hear that you long for that.
Speaker 5: And I do think that there are some pieces of
Speaker 5: what we see in media on television that we can
Speaker 5: think about, like, Okay, maybe we can't have like a
Speaker 5: Brownstone where all of our best friends live, but what
Speaker 5: pieces of this can I model and you know, kind
Speaker 5: of take into my own life and kind of have
Speaker 5: some semblance of that that kind of meets that need
Speaker 5: for me, because I just think that there's so much
Speaker 5: competing for our attention right now, right like they didn't
Speaker 5: have Instagram back in living single days, right, And so
Speaker 5: you know, the time we're spending scrolling on Instagram and
Speaker 5: playing on TikTok, like could you be having a group
Speaker 5: chat with your girls?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 5: And I just think that there are so many things
Speaker 5: that do distract us that it is good to be
Speaker 5: able to kind of put all of that away and
Speaker 5: make time to really intentionally connect with one another.
Speaker 3: And it sounds also when you said, look at what
Speaker 3: aspects that you could have, you know, you could have
Speaker 3: breakfast together sometimes, so it sounds like you're saying it's
Speaker 3: not pathological to be looking at these examples and wanting
Speaker 3: some of that.
Speaker 4: Absolutely not.
Speaker 5: I mean that's why we resonate with certain shows, right,
Speaker 5: is because they feel super realistic. But I think you
Speaker 5: also have to remember that there's a whole writing team
Speaker 5: and lots of editing and all of these things that
Speaker 5: go into making these shows that we love. But we
Speaker 5: also love these shows because they feel very realistic to us.
Speaker 5: They feel like things that we could achieve in some ways.
Speaker 5: I think we just have to be careful not to
Speaker 5: you know, kind of compare our real life to something
Speaker 5: that has a whole writing room in multiple editors.
Speaker 3: Do you have an example of something that you saw
Speaker 3: in storytelling that you kind of were like, it didn't
Speaker 3: really play out like that in my real life.
Speaker 5: Oh, you know, I feel like motherhood would have to
Speaker 5: be that for me. And I don't think I can
Speaker 5: point to any one like instance or you know, depiction,
Speaker 5: but I just feel like you I saw in media,
Speaker 5: like lots of stories around like how hard it is
Speaker 5: to kind of, you know, bring children into the family
Speaker 5: and how priorities shift and all of these things. In
Speaker 5: the real life version of that is like so much
Speaker 5: more difficult than I think anything that I ever saw
Speaker 5: depicted in media.
Speaker 3: Right, And I imagine like because being a mother is
Speaker 3: twenty four seven and we get maybe like thirty minutes
Speaker 3: to an hour with motherhoods depicted on the screen. Or
Speaker 3: you know, if a book takes you ten hours to
Speaker 3: read over the course of the book, that really does
Speaker 3: not compare to what you're doing with your kids day
Speaker 3: in and day out. So I can see how that
Speaker 3: depiction is like super truncated and maybe only shows like
Speaker 3: the highlights or maybe like some very low lights, but
Speaker 3: not really all the stuff in between. But how do
Speaker 3: you think social media has impacted our expectations. Have you
Speaker 3: seen that within the Therapy for Black Girls group or
Speaker 3: talking to people while you've been on tour?
Speaker 5: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean, And you know, I think
Speaker 5: that social media as a different level of nuance to
Speaker 5: this conversation because while we are able to recognize like
Speaker 5: Insecure and living single and like the things that we
Speaker 5: watch on TV as entertainment, I don't think that we
Speaker 5: always view like what we're watching on social media as entertainment,
Speaker 5: and a lot of it actually is meant for entertainment,
Speaker 5: but because they look like real people like us, then
Speaker 5: we get caught up in comparing, like our vacation to
Speaker 5: the vacation they took in Bali, right, and how that
Speaker 5: doesn't match up, and then we're really frustrated and said that, like,
Speaker 5: our pictures don't look like the ones we saw this
Speaker 5: influencer who has a team of photographers and like all
Speaker 5: of these things. Like, I think we do do more
Speaker 5: comparing ourselves to what we see on social media than
Speaker 5: we even do to Insecure, because we clearly know that
Speaker 5: those are characters. And so I think that this is
Speaker 5: something that has come up a lot in the Therapy
Speaker 5: for Black girls community just around people like having to
Speaker 5: take breaks from social media because they find themselves like
Speaker 5: doing too much comparison, or it's really hard to kind
Speaker 5: of stay focused on whatever your journey is, whether that
Speaker 5: be healing or motherhood or entrepreneurship, because you're always paying
Speaker 5: attention to like other people's shiny objects, right So, like, oh,
Speaker 5: they launched this course, so now do I need a course?
Speaker 5: Or oh, look at how beautiful their family portraits are
Speaker 5: in mine don't look like that. Like, I just feel
Speaker 5: like social media does it elicits a lot of these
Speaker 5: very strong reactions from people, and I don't think they
Speaker 5: always recognize like what's going on because you think it
Speaker 5: is you kind of keeping in touch with friends, right
Speaker 5: Like when you think about like some of these parasocial relationships,
Speaker 5: right Like, there's a lot of money to be made
Speaker 5: by us feeling like we have these you know, cousin
Speaker 5: in my head kind of relationship with people that we
Speaker 5: follow on Instagram. But in a lot of ways, that
Speaker 5: can be unhealthy because you are setting yourself up and
Speaker 5: trying to compare yourself to something that is like an
Speaker 5: idealized version of life as opposed to like the basic
Speaker 5: day to day version of life that most of us
Speaker 5: are actually living.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with Doctor Joy after the break. So,
Speaker 1: if we're having these moments where we're looking at a
Speaker 1: television show and we're saying that our reality doesn't match
Speaker 1: up to it, but we want them to be more
Speaker 1: in alignment, what are ways that we can tell that
Speaker 1: in ourselves. Okay, that's normal for us to do. There
Speaker 1: are specific psychological reasons while we're responding this way, and
Speaker 1: we are able to move through life still, like in
Speaker 1: a healthy, normal way.
Speaker 5: So anytime things kind of veer off course, where you
Speaker 5: are finding disturbances in your sleep, disturbances in your appetite,
Speaker 5: you are wanting to kind of be less engaged with
Speaker 5: things that you normally were really excited about. Like, I
Speaker 5: think all of those are signs that like something is
Speaker 5: off and you need to kind of pay attention to,
Speaker 5: like what has happened. I also think you have to
Speaker 5: be careful. And I think we kind of joke about this,
Speaker 5: but I do know that there are extremes for any circumstance, Right,
Speaker 5: we kind of joke about, you know, like, oh, what
Speaker 5: do I do now that my favorite show is no
Speaker 5: longer on the air And I need a support group,
Speaker 5: and you know, like all of these things, and I
Speaker 5: think like some of that is normal. Like, you know,
Speaker 5: I think a lot of us were said when Insecure
Speaker 5: ended because we loved it and like wanted to spend
Speaker 5: Sunday nights with them. But if you find yourself staying
Speaker 5: in that space for too long, I do think that
Speaker 5: that is an indication that, like something, there's some need
Speaker 5: that's not being met that you were addressing through this show.
Speaker 5: Because it's normal to kind of have, you know, parasocial
Speaker 5: relationships and attachments to characters, but they are characters, right,
Speaker 5: And so I think when you find yourself over identifying
Speaker 5: with a particular fantasy world or some disturbance in sleep,
Speaker 5: or you're kind of spending too much time kind of
Speaker 5: being obsessed around things that happened on the show, and
Speaker 5: I do think that that is an indication that, you know, hey,
Speaker 5: what's going on here? Like are you trying to avoid
Speaker 5: something else in your real life by being preoccupied with
Speaker 5: this fantasy world that somebody else created?
Speaker 3: Speaking of being too enthralled in these shows, do you
Speaker 3: have any tips for folks who are struggling with managing
Speaker 3: expectations for like grounding themselves in reality, any practices that
Speaker 3: you would recommend.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I actually think journaling is an excellent tool
Speaker 5: for life of these kinds of things, because I think
Speaker 5: when you can write things down or talk them through,
Speaker 5: like if you want to do voice notes and really
Speaker 5: kind of get at like what is motivating your behavior,
Speaker 5: I think that that unveils a lot for us. Right, So,
Speaker 5: if you're finding yourself kind of staying with a particular storyline,
Speaker 5: or you feel like the lines are blurring between reality
Speaker 5: and fantasy world, like, well, what is it that makes
Speaker 5: me want to spend time with these characters? And where
Speaker 5: might that be missing in my own life? And what
Speaker 5: kinds of things can I do to get more of that?
Speaker 5: You know, kind of like our earlier conversations of if
Speaker 5: you're missing this kind of thing, this living single vibe,
Speaker 5: like what pieces of that can you bring into your
Speaker 5: own life? And I think journaling is an excellent way
Speaker 5: to kind of get at some of those questions and
Speaker 5: to really be able to check in with yourself to
Speaker 5: see where there may be, you know, kind of holes
Speaker 5: in your reality. I also think I have to, of
Speaker 5: course advocate for therapy because I think talking with a
Speaker 5: therapist about some of these concerns can be really helpful.
Speaker 5: And I think if you're somebody who finds yourself like
Speaker 5: struggling with like, Okay, I'm feeling very overidentified with a character,
Speaker 5: or you know, I'm sticking with these story loans longer
Speaker 5: than I think I should. It may feel kind of
Speaker 5: weird to say that to like a friend, but you know,
Speaker 5: in a therapist's office, like you know, there is no
Speaker 5: weird thing, Like there's nothing that you can't go to
Speaker 5: a therapist with, and so it may feel safer to
Speaker 5: be able to kind of talk through whatever it is
Speaker 5: that you're feeling with a therapist as opposed to somebody
Speaker 5: who is in your life on a more regular basis.
Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that is similar
Speaker 3: to me in Eve's expectations versus reality is just wanting
Speaker 3: to be known by somebody, Like I want my therapist
Speaker 3: to know me. She wants to have that group of
Speaker 3: friends that knows her. And so one thing that I
Speaker 3: really liked from your book is doing that self assessment
Speaker 3: and sisterhood assessment. So if someone's struggling with, oh, like
Speaker 3: I wanted to have this like big friend group or
Speaker 3: just like a really good girlfriend and they're not feeling that,
Speaker 3: like take that assessment and say like okay, or or
Speaker 3: do I have people in my life that I'm just
Speaker 3: kind of overlooking that actually do pour into me and
Speaker 3: how am I as a friend? Because you know, it
Speaker 3: needs to have that reciprocation. So that's one thing that
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, doctor Joy read me. But it
Speaker 3: was helpful after I was mad Toude for a little bit.
Speaker 5: Anger is a totally totally appropriate response to have, And
Speaker 5: you know, I really want to stay there for a moment, Katie,
Speaker 5: because this feeling of being known by somebody and really
Speaker 5: seeing for all of who we are is incredibly powerful.
Speaker 5: And I think that that is one of the strengths
Speaker 5: that black women have right is being able to kind
Speaker 5: of hold space and like our friends and our girls
Speaker 5: can kind of see us even when we don't want
Speaker 5: to admit that thing to ourselves. And I don't think
Speaker 5: that there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot
Speaker 5: of times what I'm seeing now is people kind of
Speaker 5: wanting to be unbothered, so to speak, and like, oh,
Speaker 5: it's okay if like people don't you know, pay attention
Speaker 5: to me, But actually it's not like, we're humans, We're
Speaker 5: not robots, and so this law to be known and
Speaker 5: really seen by people is something that is totally appropriate,
Speaker 5: and I think it's beautiful when we can cultivate spaces
Speaker 5: where we can do that for one another. It's really important.
Speaker 3: Now it's time for my favorite segment of the show,
Speaker 3: my favorite and only segment of our show, roll credits,
Speaker 3: where we give credit to a person, place, or thing,
Speaker 3: and we have our esteemed guest, Doctor Joy, and we
Speaker 3: will let her kick it off. Who or what are
Speaker 3: you giving credit to this week?
Speaker 4: Doctor Joy?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 5: I think I will give credit to one of my
Speaker 5: favorite restaurants here in Atlanta. It's a taco place called
Speaker 5: Tacoia deel Soul. Okay, It's my favorite favorite place, favorite
Speaker 5: caso in Atlanta for sure. And when I think about that,
Speaker 5: so it is kind of like a tradition for my family,
Speaker 5: like we are typically there weekly. And when I think about,
Speaker 5: like throughout the pandemic, like that was the thing that
Speaker 5: kind of felt like a constant. So even when we
Speaker 5: couldn't go in restaurants to eat, we would like do
Speaker 5: us to go order And it just feels like this
Speaker 5: thing that has kind of been like a grounding space
Speaker 5: for me and my family. So I think that would
Speaker 5: be my credit would be Takaria del.
Speaker 3: Sol okay, shout out that case th.
Speaker 4: Tacos last night. I love it?
Speaker 3: What about you, Eves?
Speaker 4: Let's see.
Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to being barefoot outside specifically.
Speaker 1: Kenny laughs at me every time I give credit to something.
Speaker 1: I know it seems like it's out of left field,
Speaker 1: but it's not, I promise.
Speaker 4: I just love being barefoot.
Speaker 1: I have been wanting to be barefoot a lot more lately,
Speaker 1: like I always do. And I think you know that,
Speaker 1: but it feels really good. It feels grounding. Speaking of grounding,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have
Speaker 1: to say about it.
Speaker 4: Period.
Speaker 3: I would like to give credit to the season. I
Speaker 3: feel like a little twinge of fall in the air
Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, we're going into a different season.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, I'm going into a different
Speaker 3: season of my life.
Speaker 4: How fitting?
Speaker 3: So like literal seasons and like seasons of our lives,
Speaker 3: and like I'm the type of person who like gets
Speaker 3: really emotional when there's like a very concrete change, like
Speaker 3: if there's like a graduation or like a funeral. It's
Speaker 3: like things are different now, and I feel like the
Speaker 3: seasons are kind of like a way to mark that,
Speaker 3: or like nature's way of marking that. So I want
Speaker 3: to give credit to the seasons. It makes you super
Speaker 3: like introspective every time I go through a season, changing,
Speaker 3: whether it's just summer to fall or life stuff. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and doctor Joy, how can people keep up with you?
Speaker 3: How can they listen to you read your book all
Speaker 3: those good things?
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can find me at Hello, doctor Joy
Speaker 5: across all the social media platforms. I would love for
Speaker 5: you to grab a copy of Sister Who at Heels
Speaker 5: at sisterhood Heels dot com or your favorite local bookstore
Speaker 5: and definitely share your thoughts with me because I love
Speaker 5: hearing how people are like going to their group chats
Speaker 5: with the conversation around Sister at Heels. So definitely let
Speaker 5: me know your thoughts once you grab it, and then
Speaker 5: you can check out the podcast Therapy for Black Girls.
Speaker 5: New episodes come out every Wednesday morning and you can
Speaker 5: find all of that at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much, thank you.
Speaker 5: I appreciate y'all having me, of course.
Speaker 4: So that's that.
Speaker 1: On that We'll be back next episode.
Speaker 3: See Ya.
Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media.
Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell.
Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison.
Speaker 4: Follow us on.
Speaker 1: Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an
Speaker 1: email at hello at on theme Dot. For more podcasts
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