1 00:00:01,360 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeart Radio and fair 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Weather Friends Media. 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:12,800 Speaker 2: You are. 4 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 3: Today's episode TV fomo I r L. You haven't been 5 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,159 Speaker 3: watching a show and see the characters experiencing something that 6 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,720 Speaker 3: you never experienced and be like, I. 7 00:00:34,680 --> 00:00:36,479 Speaker 4: Ain't never had that ever happened to me. 8 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: I'm trying to see what that be like, right, Dno. Yeah, 9 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: they be living their best lives and I'm just over 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: here watching them from my average life. 11 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 3: But I mean, you don't have to just sit and watch. 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 3: You could could what you know, use those characters as 13 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 3: a blueprint and do what they're doing. 14 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,040 Speaker 1: So you're saying I should mimic a TV show in 15 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: my real life. 16 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:00,640 Speaker 3: I mean when you saying like that. 17 00:01:00,920 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 4: So how would you say it? 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,919 Speaker 3: Like you never seen something on TV or a movie 19 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 3: or read something in a book and thought, I want 20 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: that to happen to me. Yeah, for sure I have. 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 3: Who hasn't exactly our inspires. It's so hard not to 22 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 3: compare our lives to the storylines we see on the 23 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: screen and on the page. 24 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: But unlike television and movies, real life doesn't give us 25 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: second takes our fetus lines. There are no copy editors 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: or fact checkers, and our day to day lives. 27 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 3: In this week's episode, we'll look back at the times 28 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 3: we compared our lives to fictional storylines and we're in for. 29 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 5: A rude awakening. 30 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: We'll explore the potential negative impacts of life attempting to 31 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: imitate art with doctor Joy Harden Bradford of Therapy for 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: Black Girls. 33 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 3: I'm Katie, the author of the forthcoming anthology about black 34 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 3: bookstores in the United States, Prose to the People. 35 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: And I'm Eves, a writer, a yoga teacher and student, 36 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: and a person who loves to be outdoors. 37 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 3: We talk a lot about how stories have impacted us. 38 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: Yes, we have an entire podcast dedicated to black storytelling indeed. 39 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 3: Fact, and I've been thinking about the way storytelling can 40 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 3: negatively impact us, like not in a traumatic way, but 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 3: kind of in a bum us out, give us fellmo 42 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: type of way. 43 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,079 Speaker 1: Fear of missing out is real, But that phrase usually 44 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,679 Speaker 1: comes up when people are talking about social media. 45 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, which is its own form of storytelling. Like you 46 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 3: see someone having a great time in Bali, and now 47 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you want to go to Bali. 48 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: Can't point to Bali on the map, but you want 49 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 3: a flower. 50 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: Baths Okay, that's really specific. 51 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 4: But it was a self track, gotcha. 52 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 3: But I found myself judging people who, from my perspective, 53 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 3: were copying other people's lives they saw on social media 54 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 3: then posting. 55 00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 4: It on social media. 56 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:40,519 Speaker 3: But after doing so much needed self reflection, I came 57 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 3: to the conclusion that I do that too, using social 58 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 3: media and more traditional forms of media. 59 00:02:45,880 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 4: I can see the vacation thing. 60 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: It is giving out being adventurous and you're sitting at 61 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: home on the couch like you always do, not going 62 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 1: to div university. 63 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 3: A little made outfit. 64 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 4: Right? Wait? 65 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:06,280 Speaker 3: What it was a love and hip hop reference only 66 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 3: the real name only? 67 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 4: So you are you left you? 68 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 1: I'm loose. I'm floating in the universe. There's nothing but 69 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 1: ether around me and darkness. Hey, I don't be watching 70 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 1: reality TV anyway, So, like, what storylines from TV left 71 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: you feeling disappointed? Is it easier for TV shows to 72 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: leave you feeling disappointed as compared to social media? 73 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, I think TV shows really do it 74 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 3: for me. Like, sure, the conflict you know they have 75 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 3: is often wrapped up nicely at some point, and they 76 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 3: might have like a special destination episode or whatever. But generally, 77 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 3: what you're watching on TV is their quote unquote normal lives. 78 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 3: So I'm like, I want my normal life to be 79 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 3: like this. Yeah. 80 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, because you're really going along for the ride with them, 81 00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: like you have more time that you spend with them, 82 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: And especially for longer series, every episode can be this 83 00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: huge special day. There has to be a lot more 84 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: filler and just a lot more things that happened in general. 85 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's like the mundane things that I'd be like, wow, 86 00:04:11,840 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 3: I can't even have the mundane things. For example, one 87 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: thing that I found myself being disappointed by in my 88 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 3: life comparing it to TV series was therapy, like talking 89 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: to a therapist. Yeah, Like I had put it off 90 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 3: for a year or two, but I kept seeing TV 91 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: therapists work wonders for their clients, like they were so 92 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: prepared for their sessions, deeply interested in seeing their clients improved, 93 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 3: and their offices were cutes. 94 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, it sounds like that wasn't your experience. 95 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 3: Girl, not at all. I'm not even trying to be funny. 96 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: I've had multiple therapists confuse me for other clients. 97 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 4: They're like, oh, what. 98 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,919 Speaker 3: About what about your pet dogs? Miss A Legg I'm like, 99 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 3: what are you talking about? 100 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:55,119 Speaker 5: Wrong? 101 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 3: Bit Yeah, yeah, like the therapists I've had were nothing 102 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,160 Speaker 3: like therapists On Insecure. 103 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: Two weeks ago, you said things should be easier for 104 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 2: me as a successful black woman, and another time you 105 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,440 Speaker 2: said things should have fallen into place by now. Is 106 00:05:12,480 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: there a certain way you think your life should go? Oh? 107 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: Well, I mean I do have specific life goals, and 108 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: I think that if you work hard, then it is 109 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 1: shot to. 110 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: Yield certain results. There's a medical term called magical thinking, 111 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: when we believe what we want can influence the external 112 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 2: world as opposed to accepting things as they are. 113 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can really tell that the therapist is keyed 114 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:39,760 Speaker 1: into bally bringing up something that she said two weeks 115 00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: ago to establish a pattern introducing medical terms. 116 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: See and for me, you know, we came into adulthood 117 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 3: when folks were openly embracing therapy. So I had this 118 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: notion that I should go look at me. Sounded like Moley, 119 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 3: but it was depictions like this. It made me think 120 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 3: that a therapist would really help me. 121 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: I can see how that's disappointing, because therapy is one 122 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: of those things that it's hard to understand before you 123 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 1: try it yourself. So these fictional portrayals make sense to 124 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: use as an example for someone who hasn't been. 125 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 3: Before my thoughts exactly. It's weird to ask someone you know, like, 126 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,359 Speaker 3: how's your therapy session, which I'll talk about. How did 127 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: that make you feel? 128 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: I've been wanted to though, honestly, but it is a 129 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: little weird, you. 130 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 3: Know, just a little bit. And because of the nature 131 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 3: of therapy. When a therapist shows up in a show, 132 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 3: they're mostly there to help a main character with a 133 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 3: personal conundrum or reach an epiphany, and you were hoping 134 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 3: you'd find a therapist who do the same for you. Yes, girl, 135 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: main character energy. But alas, life isn't a story, and 136 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:42,040 Speaker 3: I am not a character. I am a nonfictional person. 137 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 3: Say it out loud, I'm a nonfictional person. 138 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: So how did you handle that disappointment with your therapist? 139 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: Did you shop around? 140 00:06:51,360 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: No? 141 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,479 Speaker 3: I stop seeing my therapists for reasons related more to 142 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 3: capitalism and America's messed up healthcare system. I mean, I 143 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 3: thought about getting another one, but the thought of having 144 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 3: to let someone else get to know me and my 145 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 3: issues was too exhausting. 146 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: What about you? 147 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 3: Do you have a life imitating art moment. 148 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I do for sure. I mean, speaking of insecure, 149 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: one thing that I see on TV a lot that 150 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: just has not been my experience is the large but 151 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: somehow close knit friend group. You know, sometimes it's a 152 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 1: pretty big group, like six people, and sometimes there's like 153 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: a base of three or four people and then a 154 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: concentric circle around that Kora folks. But either way, the 155 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 1: group of friends is close. I mean they all know 156 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: each other super well and have for a while, and 157 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: a lot of instances they can hit each other up 158 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: in the wee hours of the morning about anything. They're 159 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 1: down for last minute plans. They go on vacations together, 160 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: they move cities, countries and stay friends, and they be 161 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: doing stuff like having immediate urgent group calls about drama 162 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: that's going down in that very moment, and also the 163 00:07:56,400 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: drama a lot of times isn't even that urgent, and 164 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 1: they still be picking up the phone. They're always debriefing 165 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: and whatnot. 166 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 4: Like in this clip from twenties, this is the first 167 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 4: partament I re upholstered for you. 168 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 1: Now it's ruined, yelling Chuck so he can come help 169 00:08:11,160 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: us pack up. 170 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 5: We aren't packing up, Okay, we are going to centa Spiel, 171 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 5: I am ready to get my life from all about e. 172 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 3: You just got evicted and you trying to go sit. 173 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 5: On the grass and watch a movie, yes. 174 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: Or like living single girlfriends Harlem, et cetera. The examples 175 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: of this go on where there are friend groups that 176 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: are relatively large but still very close knit. 177 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 3: Yeah. I think something that ours both have in common 178 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 3: is like wanting to be like really known by somebody 179 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 3: and feeling like. 180 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 4: Is this the therapist? 181 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 3: Okay, let's tell me what yo daddy is. But I mean, 182 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 3: as someone who's known you for a long time, I'm 183 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 3: surprised that this was your example because I see you 184 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: as having that. I'm like, yeah, like, you know, you 185 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 3: have your college friends and y'all be having all joint 186 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,200 Speaker 3: birthday parties and going out the country together, and I'm great, 187 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 3: what's going on? 188 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 1: I thought that was? 189 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 4: I thought that was it was. 190 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 3: So it's interesting that you, like don't experience it that way. 191 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 4: I really don't. 192 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 1: I don't because I guess when I see it. And 193 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: maybe that is the whole the fact that a TV 194 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: show has a whole mythology around it, and as an 195 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: industry created just make these specific moments look like this, 196 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 1: But to me, it feels like the friend groups they 197 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 1: all mesh in a way differently than my friend grops mesh. 198 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: I feel like everything is segmented for me, Like I 199 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: feel like this, Yeah, I have these friends that I 200 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: do this thing with, and I have these friends over 201 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: here who I do this with. But for me, in shows, 202 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 1: it feels like those friend groups every thotty crisscrossed. It's 203 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,400 Speaker 1: like a big web and everything meets in the center. 204 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:54,880 Speaker 1: And also I also think like the logistics work differently 205 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: in the shows. 206 00:09:55,600 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 4: I think this is like I got to schedule this. 207 00:09:57,360 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: I've been trying for a month to get with these 208 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: two friends at the same time and it hasn't worked 209 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,479 Speaker 1: out because our schedules are very misaligned. 210 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, and we don't. 211 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: Be group calling at all now, Like there's just a 212 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 1: level of synergy in kinship that I don't feel like 213 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,440 Speaker 1: I have in the same way that I see in shows. 214 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: It feels very flowery and it feels very poetic in 215 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: shows in ways that it doesn't feel like in my life. 216 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: And so I don't want to make it seem like 217 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:28,240 Speaker 1: I don't have people I love in my life. And 218 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: then I'm close to it just doesn't work the same 219 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: way that I seen in shows, and I find myself 220 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: like being like that looks really nice. 221 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like you don't see the Hey can you 222 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 3: can you come out here? Oh no, Like you don't 223 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,319 Speaker 3: see that back and forth like that, all the logistics 224 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: of having that prime group and all that meeting of 225 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 3: like it's like, oh, I happen to be at the park. 226 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: It seems so spontaneous and if everything's fresh and new, 227 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: it's breezy. 228 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 3: Yes, it's a good way to put it. It's a bittery. 229 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: And of course shows are meant to be a spectacle, 230 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: so TV storytellers want our eyes to be glued to 231 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: the screen. Also, characters in their relationships they have to 232 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 1: have some kind of spice and intrigue, so there has 233 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: to be exposition, and they have to build a story's world. 234 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: But dang, even when we know what we're watching is 235 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: fiction and the storytellers are doing their damnedest to suspend 236 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 1: our disbelief, it can be hard not to feel some 237 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: longing for the lifestyles that you see. And there is 238 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: psychological research around how people interact and bond with the 239 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 1: fictional characters that they become attached to. In a twenty 240 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: twelve study, researchers from Ohio State University use the term 241 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: quote experience taking to describe the actions of readers who 242 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 1: take on the thoughts, beliefs, and emotions of fictional characters. 243 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: Sometimes we do actually let the attitudes and actions of 244 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: fictional characters influence our real life decisions. And like for me, 245 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: I see in these fictional friend groups that everything isn't 246 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: always sweet. They make mistakes, get in fights, and they 247 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: even break up, but still they share this deep kinship 248 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 1: that even from the time I was a child, I 249 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: think I imagined all adults having, but as an adult 250 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: now it doesn't feel like that. And ooh, now that 251 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: I think about it, there is a social media trap 252 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: here too. Black girl friend group travel is such a thing. 253 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: Folks be making it look all luxurious and drama free 254 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:28,839 Speaker 1: and the feed acting like they have one and a 255 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,280 Speaker 1: half fights every day but still giving us fomo. 256 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 3: Yes, like speaking of like the big friend group, Like 257 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 3: I've never been a part of one, but I've been 258 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 3: like kind of those like special guest characters and like, oh, 259 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: they come in for this episode a cameo. Yeah, it's 260 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:49,160 Speaker 3: giving cameo, it's giving. We invited you because we did 261 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 3: not have enough people and we needed to split this 262 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 3: trip up better. But yeah, like being one the outside 263 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: of the group but still being with them. You see, 264 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,880 Speaker 3: like this isn't even fun. Like it's fun on social media, 265 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 3: but like being with y'all is not even fun. So like, 266 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: why was I tripping off this? 267 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 1: Also seeing that from a sober perspective, when I would 268 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: imagine other everybody is not sober in those groups around. 269 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 3: Oh, absolutely, yeah, I need to start drinking, doing drugs, 270 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:17,600 Speaker 3: y'abby having fun. 271 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 4: It's not gonna help. It's not gonna help. 272 00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:24,440 Speaker 3: I have a sneaking suspicion that we're not the only 273 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: ones who felt dejected when our life and experiences didn't 274 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 3: live up to the characters we watch every week. So 275 00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 3: I wanted to bring in an expert to give us 276 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 3: some insight on why we compare ourselves to fictional people, 277 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,079 Speaker 3: how that's impacting us, and some reframing techniques we might 278 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 3: find helpful. 279 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,880 Speaker 1: When you say things like reframing techniques, it starts to 280 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:43,800 Speaker 1: make me feel like I really am in a therapy 281 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: session already. 282 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 3: Not quite, but we are going to be chatting with 283 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 3: doctor Joy from Therapy for Black Girls right after the break. 284 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 5: Hey, y'all, I'm doctor Joy Hard and Branford. I'm a 285 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 5: psychologist in Atlanta and also the founder of Therapy for 286 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,600 Speaker 5: Black Girls. I'm also the author of Sisterhood Heals, The 287 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 5: Transformative Power of Healing in Community. 288 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: So, you know, we're watching TV, we're watching movies, even 289 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 3: reading books, and we see something or like we want 290 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 3: this to happen in our lives. My example was therapist. 291 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 3: I watched Insecure, and you remember Molly's therapist. She was 292 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 3: so good, her office was so cute. She had all 293 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: the great insights for Mollie and listened to her and 294 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 3: remember everything from last session, didn't mix her up with 295 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 3: different clients. And I was like, I need to go 296 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 3: to therapy and that's what my therapist is going to 297 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:48,160 Speaker 3: be like, and it just did not turn out like that, 298 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,359 Speaker 3: and I was very disappointed. 299 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, So I actually thought that Molly's therapist was a 300 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 5: good depiction of what therapy actually looks like, because I 301 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 5: do feel like a lot of times television gets therapy wrong. 302 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 5: Most often, I see like very inappropriate boundaries between therapists 303 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 5: and clients, which typically doesn't happen in real life. But 304 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,000 Speaker 5: I actually thought Molly's therapists in terms of like not 305 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,080 Speaker 5: getting her mixed up and like tracking across sessions, like, 306 00:15:14,120 --> 00:15:16,200 Speaker 5: I feel like that's kind of like the bare minimum. 307 00:15:16,280 --> 00:15:18,320 Speaker 5: So I'm kind of sad to hear that that did 308 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 5: not match up with your reality. 309 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was too, honestly, doctor Joy when I heard 310 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: Katie tell me this, I mean, I know about her 311 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: some of the experiences she's had in therapy, so I 312 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: feel like that sounds like a lot of people. You know, 313 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: Katie and I are close enough for her to tell me, like, 314 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: let me in on her experiences that she's hat with therapists. 315 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 4: But I was thinking that too. I was like, yeah, like, 316 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 4: isn't that what. 317 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 1: They're supposed to do, like the least of what they're 318 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: supposed to do. 319 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 4: So I'm right there with you. 320 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 3: Oh, I was like, well, Molly just had the best 321 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 3: therapist ever. 322 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,560 Speaker 1: And that's round it coming from your perspective because that's 323 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: the experience that you've had. Yeah yeah, but yeah, So 324 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,920 Speaker 1: so for me, it wasn't about therapy. 325 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: For me. 326 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,880 Speaker 1: The thing that I saw not lining up with expectations 327 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: and my reality when I was watching television was friend 328 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: groups for me, one of the things that I saw 329 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: expectation of, Like looking at these really lovely like relationships 330 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,760 Speaker 1: that these people had in these shows that are specifically 331 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,520 Speaker 1: black friend groups, I found that I didn't have that 332 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: experience in real life, and I found myself like, I 333 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 1: don't want that. That seems really nice, So there's some 334 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:28,800 Speaker 1: longing for it. 335 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, I love that you shared that because I feel 336 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 5: like I have very I mean clearly in my sisterhood 337 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 5: bag right now, right because I'm all in the celebration 338 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 5: of sisterhood heels. But I find that interesting that we're 339 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 5: also celebrating the thirtieth anniversary of living single this year, 340 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 5: and I feel like that is one of those shows 341 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,640 Speaker 5: that a lot of sisters go back to and say like, oh, 342 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 5: this is what I felt like friends and friend groups 343 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 5: were going to be like, and then the reality of 344 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,280 Speaker 5: it does not match. And I think we have to 345 00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 5: think about, you know, like what was happening in the 346 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 5: world thirty years ago that is very different from now. Right, 347 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 5: So there weren't cell phones, or if there were, like 348 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,879 Speaker 5: they weren't readily available like we have them now. People 349 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 5: I think did maybe live in closer proximity to one another, 350 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 5: and it just feels like they didn't have as many 351 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 5: things that competed for their interests in time the way 352 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 5: that we do now. And so when you see you know, 353 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,680 Speaker 5: all of them able to kind of go together for breakfast, 354 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,639 Speaker 5: it feels like they had like breakfast a lot together 355 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 5: on the big single, which I think is cute, but 356 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 5: you know, like be able to meet each other for 357 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 5: breakfast before they go to work, and you know, all 358 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 5: of that stuff like that doesn't take into consideration, like 359 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,919 Speaker 5: a commute and dropping kids off for daycare and like 360 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 5: all of these things that I think are just very 361 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,679 Speaker 5: different about the world that we find ourselves in now. 362 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 5: And I'm not surprised to hear that you long for that. 363 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 5: And I do think that there are some pieces of 364 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 5: what we see in media on television that we can 365 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,040 Speaker 5: think about, like, Okay, maybe we can't have like a 366 00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 5: Brownstone where all of our best friends live, but what 367 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 5: pieces of this can I model and you know, kind 368 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 5: of take into my own life and kind of have 369 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 5: some semblance of that that kind of meets that need 370 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 5: for me, because I just think that there's so much 371 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 5: competing for our attention right now, right like they didn't 372 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,320 Speaker 5: have Instagram back in living single days, right, And so 373 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 5: you know, the time we're spending scrolling on Instagram and 374 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 5: playing on TikTok, like could you be having a group 375 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 5: chat with your girls? 376 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: You know? 377 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,120 Speaker 5: And I just think that there are so many things 378 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 5: that do distract us that it is good to be 379 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 5: able to kind of put all of that away and 380 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,199 Speaker 5: make time to really intentionally connect with one another. 381 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,399 Speaker 3: And it sounds also when you said, look at what 382 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 3: aspects that you could have, you know, you could have 383 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 3: breakfast together sometimes, so it sounds like you're saying it's 384 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 3: not pathological to be looking at these examples and wanting 385 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 3: some of that. 386 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 4: Absolutely not. 387 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,680 Speaker 5: I mean that's why we resonate with certain shows, right, 388 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,280 Speaker 5: is because they feel super realistic. But I think you 389 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 5: also have to remember that there's a whole writing team 390 00:18:56,480 --> 00:18:58,719 Speaker 5: and lots of editing and all of these things that 391 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 5: go into making these shows that we love. But we 392 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,120 Speaker 5: also love these shows because they feel very realistic to us. 393 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:08,800 Speaker 5: They feel like things that we could achieve in some ways. 394 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 5: I think we just have to be careful not to 395 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 5: you know, kind of compare our real life to something 396 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,760 Speaker 5: that has a whole writing room in multiple editors. 397 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 3: Do you have an example of something that you saw 398 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 3: in storytelling that you kind of were like, it didn't 399 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 3: really play out like that in my real life. 400 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:28,520 Speaker 5: Oh, you know, I feel like motherhood would have to 401 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 5: be that for me. And I don't think I can 402 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 5: point to any one like instance or you know, depiction, 403 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 5: but I just feel like you I saw in media, 404 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,200 Speaker 5: like lots of stories around like how hard it is 405 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 5: to kind of, you know, bring children into the family 406 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:46,919 Speaker 5: and how priorities shift and all of these things. In 407 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,040 Speaker 5: the real life version of that is like so much 408 00:19:50,119 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 5: more difficult than I think anything that I ever saw 409 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 5: depicted in media. 410 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 3: Right, And I imagine like because being a mother is 411 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,439 Speaker 3: twenty four seven and we get maybe like thirty minutes 412 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:05,760 Speaker 3: to an hour with motherhoods depicted on the screen. Or 413 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,639 Speaker 3: you know, if a book takes you ten hours to 414 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:10,440 Speaker 3: read over the course of the book, that really does 415 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 3: not compare to what you're doing with your kids day 416 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,239 Speaker 3: in and day out. So I can see how that 417 00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 3: depiction is like super truncated and maybe only shows like 418 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: the highlights or maybe like some very low lights, but 419 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 3: not really all the stuff in between. But how do 420 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 3: you think social media has impacted our expectations. Have you 421 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 3: seen that within the Therapy for Black Girls group or 422 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:32,160 Speaker 3: talking to people while you've been on tour? 423 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 5: Mm hmm, yeah, I mean, And you know, I think 424 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,439 Speaker 5: that social media as a different level of nuance to 425 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 5: this conversation because while we are able to recognize like 426 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 5: Insecure and living single and like the things that we 427 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 5: watch on TV as entertainment, I don't think that we 428 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:52,159 Speaker 5: always view like what we're watching on social media as entertainment, 429 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:55,280 Speaker 5: and a lot of it actually is meant for entertainment, 430 00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 5: but because they look like real people like us, then 431 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 5: we get caught up in comparing, like our vacation to 432 00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 5: the vacation they took in Bali, right, and how that 433 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 5: doesn't match up, and then we're really frustrated and said that, like, 434 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 5: our pictures don't look like the ones we saw this 435 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,119 Speaker 5: influencer who has a team of photographers and like all 436 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 5: of these things. Like, I think we do do more 437 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 5: comparing ourselves to what we see on social media than 438 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 5: we even do to Insecure, because we clearly know that 439 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 5: those are characters. And so I think that this is 440 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 5: something that has come up a lot in the Therapy 441 00:21:25,359 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 5: for Black girls community just around people like having to 442 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 5: take breaks from social media because they find themselves like 443 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 5: doing too much comparison, or it's really hard to kind 444 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 5: of stay focused on whatever your journey is, whether that 445 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 5: be healing or motherhood or entrepreneurship, because you're always paying 446 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 5: attention to like other people's shiny objects, right So, like, oh, 447 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 5: they launched this course, so now do I need a course? 448 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 5: Or oh, look at how beautiful their family portraits are 449 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,200 Speaker 5: in mine don't look like that. Like, I just feel 450 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 5: like social media does it elicits a lot of these 451 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 5: very strong reactions from people, and I don't think they 452 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,360 Speaker 5: always recognize like what's going on because you think it 453 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,360 Speaker 5: is you kind of keeping in touch with friends, right 454 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,480 Speaker 5: Like when you think about like some of these parasocial relationships, 455 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 5: right Like, there's a lot of money to be made 456 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 5: by us feeling like we have these you know, cousin 457 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 5: in my head kind of relationship with people that we 458 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 5: follow on Instagram. But in a lot of ways, that 459 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 5: can be unhealthy because you are setting yourself up and 460 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,879 Speaker 5: trying to compare yourself to something that is like an 461 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 5: idealized version of life as opposed to like the basic 462 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,719 Speaker 5: day to day version of life that most of us 463 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 5: are actually living. 464 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 1: We'll be back with Doctor Joy after the break. So, 465 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,080 Speaker 1: if we're having these moments where we're looking at a 466 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,360 Speaker 1: television show and we're saying that our reality doesn't match 467 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: up to it, but we want them to be more 468 00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: in alignment, what are ways that we can tell that 469 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,640 Speaker 1: in ourselves. Okay, that's normal for us to do. There 470 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: are specific psychological reasons while we're responding this way, and 471 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 1: we are able to move through life still, like in 472 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: a healthy, normal way. 473 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 5: So anytime things kind of veer off course, where you 474 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:21,120 Speaker 5: are finding disturbances in your sleep, disturbances in your appetite, 475 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,439 Speaker 5: you are wanting to kind of be less engaged with 476 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,679 Speaker 5: things that you normally were really excited about. Like, I 477 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:29,959 Speaker 5: think all of those are signs that like something is 478 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 5: off and you need to kind of pay attention to, 479 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,480 Speaker 5: like what has happened. I also think you have to 480 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,879 Speaker 5: be careful. And I think we kind of joke about this, 481 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 5: but I do know that there are extremes for any circumstance, Right, 482 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 5: we kind of joke about, you know, like, oh, what 483 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:47,199 Speaker 5: do I do now that my favorite show is no 484 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,760 Speaker 5: longer on the air And I need a support group, 485 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 5: and you know, like all of these things, and I 486 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 5: think like some of that is normal. Like, you know, 487 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 5: I think a lot of us were said when Insecure 488 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,680 Speaker 5: ended because we loved it and like wanted to spend 489 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 5: Sunday nights with them. But if you find yourself staying 490 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 5: in that space for too long, I do think that 491 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,840 Speaker 5: that is an indication that, like something, there's some need 492 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 5: that's not being met that you were addressing through this show. 493 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 5: Because it's normal to kind of have, you know, parasocial 494 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 5: relationships and attachments to characters, but they are characters, right, 495 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 5: And so I think when you find yourself over identifying 496 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 5: with a particular fantasy world or some disturbance in sleep, 497 00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 5: or you're kind of spending too much time kind of 498 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 5: being obsessed around things that happened on the show, and 499 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 5: I do think that that is an indication that, you know, hey, 500 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 5: what's going on here? Like are you trying to avoid 501 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 5: something else in your real life by being preoccupied with 502 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 5: this fantasy world that somebody else created? 503 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,879 Speaker 3: Speaking of being too enthralled in these shows, do you 504 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 3: have any tips for folks who are struggling with managing 505 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,159 Speaker 3: expectations for like grounding themselves in reality, any practices that 506 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 3: you would recommend. 507 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:59,439 Speaker 5: Yeah, So, I actually think journaling is an excellent tool 508 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,880 Speaker 5: for life of these kinds of things, because I think 509 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 5: when you can write things down or talk them through, 510 00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 5: like if you want to do voice notes and really 511 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 5: kind of get at like what is motivating your behavior, 512 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 5: I think that that unveils a lot for us. Right, So, 513 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,760 Speaker 5: if you're finding yourself kind of staying with a particular storyline, 514 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 5: or you feel like the lines are blurring between reality 515 00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 5: and fantasy world, like, well, what is it that makes 516 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 5: me want to spend time with these characters? And where 517 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 5: might that be missing in my own life? And what 518 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 5: kinds of things can I do to get more of that? 519 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,719 Speaker 5: You know, kind of like our earlier conversations of if 520 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,200 Speaker 5: you're missing this kind of thing, this living single vibe, 521 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 5: like what pieces of that can you bring into your 522 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 5: own life? And I think journaling is an excellent way 523 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 5: to kind of get at some of those questions and 524 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 5: to really be able to check in with yourself to 525 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 5: see where there may be, you know, kind of holes 526 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 5: in your reality. I also think I have to, of 527 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,399 Speaker 5: course advocate for therapy because I think talking with a 528 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 5: therapist about some of these concerns can be really helpful. 529 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 5: And I think if you're somebody who finds yourself like 530 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 5: struggling with like, Okay, I'm feeling very overidentified with a character, 531 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 5: or you know, I'm sticking with these story loans longer 532 00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:07,280 Speaker 5: than I think I should. It may feel kind of 533 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:10,240 Speaker 5: weird to say that to like a friend, but you know, 534 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 5: in a therapist's office, like you know, there is no 535 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:14,840 Speaker 5: weird thing, Like there's nothing that you can't go to 536 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 5: a therapist with, and so it may feel safer to 537 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 5: be able to kind of talk through whatever it is 538 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 5: that you're feeling with a therapist as opposed to somebody 539 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 5: who is in your life on a more regular basis. 540 00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 3: And I think one of the things that is similar 541 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 3: to me in Eve's expectations versus reality is just wanting 542 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 3: to be known by somebody, Like I want my therapist 543 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 3: to know me. She wants to have that group of 544 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,199 Speaker 3: friends that knows her. And so one thing that I 545 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: really liked from your book is doing that self assessment 546 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 3: and sisterhood assessment. So if someone's struggling with, oh, like 547 00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,880 Speaker 3: I wanted to have this like big friend group or 548 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:55,080 Speaker 3: just like a really good girlfriend and they're not feeling that, 549 00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 3: like take that assessment and say like okay, or or 550 00:26:58,880 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 3: do I have people in my life that I'm just 551 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 3: kind of overlooking that actually do pour into me and 552 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 3: how am I as a friend? Because you know, it 553 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:07,960 Speaker 3: needs to have that reciprocation. So that's one thing that 554 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 3: I was like, oh, doctor Joy read me. But it 555 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:14,840 Speaker 3: was helpful after I was mad Toude for a little bit. 556 00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 5: Anger is a totally totally appropriate response to have, And 557 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 5: you know, I really want to stay there for a moment, Katie, 558 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,960 Speaker 5: because this feeling of being known by somebody and really 559 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 5: seeing for all of who we are is incredibly powerful. 560 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,880 Speaker 5: And I think that that is one of the strengths 561 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,160 Speaker 5: that black women have right is being able to kind 562 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:39,959 Speaker 5: of hold space and like our friends and our girls 563 00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:41,880 Speaker 5: can kind of see us even when we don't want 564 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 5: to admit that thing to ourselves. And I don't think 565 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 5: that there's anything wrong with that. I think a lot 566 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,600 Speaker 5: of times what I'm seeing now is people kind of 567 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 5: wanting to be unbothered, so to speak, and like, oh, 568 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 5: it's okay if like people don't you know, pay attention 569 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,320 Speaker 5: to me, But actually it's not like, we're humans, We're 570 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 5: not robots, and so this law to be known and 571 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,920 Speaker 5: really seen by people is something that is totally appropriate, 572 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 5: and I think it's beautiful when we can cultivate spaces 573 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 5: where we can do that for one another. It's really important. 574 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 3: Now it's time for my favorite segment of the show, 575 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 3: my favorite and only segment of our show, roll credits, 576 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,720 Speaker 3: where we give credit to a person, place, or thing, 577 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 3: and we have our esteemed guest, Doctor Joy, and we 578 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 3: will let her kick it off. Who or what are 579 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:30,160 Speaker 3: you giving credit to this week? 580 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 4: Doctor Joy? 581 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 3: Oh? 582 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 5: I think I will give credit to one of my 583 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:38,320 Speaker 5: favorite restaurants here in Atlanta. It's a taco place called 584 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:43,640 Speaker 5: Tacoia deel Soul. Okay, It's my favorite favorite place, favorite 585 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 5: caso in Atlanta for sure. And when I think about that, 586 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 5: so it is kind of like a tradition for my family, 587 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,840 Speaker 5: like we are typically there weekly. And when I think about, 588 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,360 Speaker 5: like throughout the pandemic, like that was the thing that 589 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,120 Speaker 5: kind of felt like a constant. So even when we 590 00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,560 Speaker 5: couldn't go in restaurants to eat, we would like do 591 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 5: us to go order And it just feels like this 592 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 5: thing that has kind of been like a grounding space 593 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 5: for me and my family. So I think that would 594 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,080 Speaker 5: be my credit would be Takaria del. 595 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 3: Sol okay, shout out that case th. 596 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 4: Tacos last night. I love it? 597 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 3: What about you, Eves? 598 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: Let's see. 599 00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 1: I would like to give credit to being barefoot outside specifically. 600 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 1: Kenny laughs at me every time I give credit to something. 601 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:36,680 Speaker 1: I know it seems like it's out of left field, 602 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: but it's not, I promise. 603 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:40,840 Speaker 4: I just love being barefoot. 604 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: I have been wanting to be barefoot a lot more lately, 605 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: like I always do. And I think you know that, 606 00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:49,640 Speaker 1: but it feels really good. It feels grounding. Speaking of grounding, 607 00:29:51,200 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, that's it. That's all I have 608 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 1: to say about it. 609 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 4: Period. 610 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,360 Speaker 3: I would like to give credit to the season. I 611 00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 3: feel like a little twinge of fall in the air 612 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, we're going into a different season. 613 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, I'm going into a different 614 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,920 Speaker 3: season of my life. 615 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 4: How fitting? 616 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,920 Speaker 3: So like literal seasons and like seasons of our lives, 617 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: and like I'm the type of person who like gets 618 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 3: really emotional when there's like a very concrete change, like 619 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: if there's like a graduation or like a funeral. It's 620 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 3: like things are different now, and I feel like the 621 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 3: seasons are kind of like a way to mark that, 622 00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 3: or like nature's way of marking that. So I want 623 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 3: to give credit to the seasons. It makes you super 624 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 3: like introspective every time I go through a season, changing, 625 00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 3: whether it's just summer to fall or life stuff. Yeah, 626 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 3: and doctor Joy, how can people keep up with you? 627 00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 3: How can they listen to you read your book all 628 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:51,959 Speaker 3: those good things? 629 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, so you can find me at Hello, doctor Joy 630 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,440 Speaker 5: across all the social media platforms. I would love for 631 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 5: you to grab a copy of Sister Who at Heels 632 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 5: at sisterhood Heels dot com or your favorite local bookstore 633 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 5: and definitely share your thoughts with me because I love 634 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 5: hearing how people are like going to their group chats 635 00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 5: with the conversation around Sister at Heels. So definitely let 636 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,920 Speaker 5: me know your thoughts once you grab it, and then 637 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 5: you can check out the podcast Therapy for Black Girls. 638 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 5: New episodes come out every Wednesday morning and you can 639 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 5: find all of that at Therapy for Blackgirls dot com. 640 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,479 Speaker 3: Awesome, Thank you so much, thank you. 641 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 5: I appreciate y'all having me, of course. 642 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 4: So that's that. 643 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 1: On that We'll be back next episode. 644 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:33,040 Speaker 3: See Ya. 645 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,840 Speaker 1: On Theme is a production of iHeartRadio and Fairweather Friends Media. 646 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: This episode was written by Eves, Jeffco and Katie Mitchell. 647 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: It was edited and produced by Tari Harrison. 648 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 4: Follow us on. 649 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: Instagram at on themeshow. You can also send us an 650 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,840 Speaker 1: email at hello at on theme Dot. For more podcasts 651 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,560 Speaker 1: from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 652 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.