1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Crystal Miller is here. You are a survivor of Columbine, 2 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: which is just fascinating to me to even think about. 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: I remember when that happened, and I think a lot 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: of us do, um, just in this culture. But it 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: is crazy because the more I researched about your story 6 00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:20,159 Speaker 1: and just that shooting in general, I know for me 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: it was the first big shooting that I like have 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: any memory of or anything like that, and then we've 9 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: had so many sense and the truth about the whole 10 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: matter is that nothing has actually really changed since then. 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: So I wanted to give listeners, um just a little 12 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: bit of the journey of what it looks like whenever 13 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: a tragedy or trauma like this happens, and um, what 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: happens after that, because I think a lot of us 15 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: keep forgetting, you know, it's just the thing of, oh, 16 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: that big thing happened. We'll post about it on Instagram 17 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: for a week, and then we go about our lives 18 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: until the next one happens. And I know that's not 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: the case for people who are affected by these kind 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:04,120 Speaker 1: of things or who have been there, who were there 21 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 1: for it. So first of all, welcome, thank you for 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: being here with us. Thanks for having me. It's it's 23 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: an honor to be here. And if you would I know, um, 24 00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 1: the basics of the shooting or that it happened on 25 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 1: April nine, which was Hitler's birthday, which is very haunting 26 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: to me. Um, Dylan is it? Kleibold? Is that how 27 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: we say his name? And Eric Harris were two kids 28 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: that went to school with you at Columbine. They killed 29 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: thirteen people and wounded more than twenty others. They then 30 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:37,920 Speaker 1: committed suicide by shooting themselves in the head of the 31 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: school library. You were in the library, which is apparently 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: the place where the most people were killed. Is that correct? 33 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: That's correct, Kelly. Yes, the library was the scene of 34 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: the most intense violence at Columbine. UM. Ten of the 35 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,919 Speaker 1: thirteen were killed in the library. Twelve of those twenty 36 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,920 Speaker 1: plus were Uh did there inside of the library? And 37 00:02:01,960 --> 00:02:04,160 Speaker 1: I was right there in the very center in the 38 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: midst of it. Oh my gosh. Okay, Well, just talk 39 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: through this day with us. I mean, I know it 40 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: just probably is a story you've told a million times, 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: but I've listened to your story and it really helped 42 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: me to visualize just the breakdown with just the details 43 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: of a normal day. So can you talk us through 44 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,679 Speaker 1: your day that day? Yeah, I think that's what's what's 45 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: most interesting. Is it just seemed like any other day. 46 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,920 Speaker 1: You know, we had just had prom I was a 47 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,200 Speaker 1: sixteen year old junior. I mean, the biggest concerns on 48 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: my mind were fitting in being popular, were the boys 49 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,520 Speaker 1: that I liked and the sports that I played, and 50 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 1: making sure that I got good great I mean, very 51 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:49,200 Speaker 1: sixteen year old stuff. And on that particular day, I 52 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: mean there's warning signs. There's things that happened now looking 53 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: back that pointed to what was about to happen, but 54 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: we didn't recognize those. We simply went on with our 55 00:02:58,680 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: day as normal and went through the first four periods 56 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 1: of school like any other day. And a friend of 57 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 1: mine by the name of Seth was waiting outside of 58 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: my classroom and we usually left campus to go eat 59 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: because we could come and go, and I begged him 60 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: and his sister Sarah actually, who were too good friends 61 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: of mine, to come to the library with with me 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: that day, you know, And of course you just wonder, 63 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: is it is it my fault that we were there 64 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: that day? And we went into the library five minutes 65 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,000 Speaker 1: in the library. We were not in there for very long. 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: Chaos broke out in and around the school. I remember 67 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: glancing over to the hallway and I saw students running 68 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: with looks of terror and panic on their faces. But 69 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: we we we couldn't see what was happening or hear 70 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,120 Speaker 1: what was happening. About that time, a teacher came running 71 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: through the library doors and she said, there's guys with 72 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: guns and bombs. They're shooting students hot under your tables. 73 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: And we thought it was a joke. We we couldn't 74 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: possibly wrap our minds around what she was actually saying. 75 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: But as we just down the hall kind of started 76 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: to hear the unmistakable sound of gunfire, we knew that 77 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: we better take cover. And it was too late to 78 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 1: run somewhere else or find a good place to hide, 79 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: so we took cover underneath of our tables. They didn't 80 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: offer a whole lot of protection. And my my friend says, said, 81 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: start praying, God can get us out of here. And 82 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 1: I was like, I don't. I don't know how to prayer, 83 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 1: what to say, God save us, let this all be over. 84 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 1: But it was just the beginning. Because those two boys 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: entered the library and they started their killing spree that 86 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: lasted seven and a half minutes, And that may not 87 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: sound like a lot of time, but it felt like 88 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: an eternity. It felt like times stood still. And I 89 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: the whole time they were in the library, I mean 90 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: I literally contemplated what it would feel like to get shot, 91 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: if I would die quickly, if I would suffer slowly. 92 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 1: I mean, all I knew of violence was what I 93 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: had seen in the movies. But it wasn't Hollywood. I mean, 94 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: this was real life. And I really literally saw my 95 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: life flash before my eyes, like all the past regrets, 96 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: wishing I had a chance to do them over, and 97 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: the hopes and dreams from my future slipping through my fingers, 98 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: and just knowing I would never see those that I 99 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: loved the most ever again, I was convinced that I 100 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: was sixteen, I was about my life was about to end, 101 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: and um yeah. And and so they went around for 102 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: several minutes, picking out their victims based on the way 103 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 1: that they looked, the color of their skin, if they 104 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: were overweight, and gutting down their victims based on those things. 105 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: And the whole time just underneath the table, just praying, 106 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: just praying that it that it would be over, that 107 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 1: someone would come to help us. And after a few moments, 108 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: they made their way up the middle section where we 109 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 1: were hiding, and they first turned to the table right 110 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:54,599 Speaker 1: next to us, just a few feet away, and they shot, 111 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 1: and they killed the boy who was underneath the table. 112 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: They then turned their attention on our table pushed it 113 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: aaron underneath, and I felt it hit my back. I 114 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: knew that they were just inches on my body, and 115 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: I could hear them talking, kind of dumping out their 116 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: weapons on the table above to take a mentory, and 117 00:06:12,760 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: they realized they needed more ammo. They said they were 118 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: going to leave to go reload, and they made it 119 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,120 Speaker 1: very clear that they were coming back though, to kill 120 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: those of us who are still alive. And so we 121 00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: knew we had just a small window of opportunity to 122 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: escape before they returned, and so we got up and 123 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: we ran towards the exit. And it looked like a 124 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 1: war looked like a war zone in that small library, 125 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: and I was forced to literally step over the bodies 126 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,520 Speaker 1: of my friends and classmates so that I could make 127 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: it out alive. I mean, it's just it's hard to 128 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,239 Speaker 1: imagine at sixteen, it's hard to imagine at any age 129 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: it shouldn't happen, um, but at sixteen that this was 130 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: This was my new reality, this was my story. Um. 131 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: And of course everything from that moment chan changed. I 132 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,279 Speaker 1: knew that life as I knew it would never again 133 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 1: be the same. So you had that awareness in that moment, 134 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, I do. I remember just moments after I 135 00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: was I was standing in a field and it felt 136 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: like everybody was just scattering and I was left standing 137 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 1: there alone. And I didn't know what I had even 138 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: seen or experienced inside of that library, but I did 139 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: know that my life would never again be the same. Um. Now, 140 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: obviously I I didn't know the ins and the outs 141 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: of that. I couldn't explain that to you, but I 142 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: just knew that there was a shift in that moment, 143 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: and of course there was, I mean, everything about life changed. 144 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:42,960 Speaker 1: I was thinking about when you're talking about being under 145 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: the table and just it's crazy to me. I always wonder, 146 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: you know, you hear people talk about like in a 147 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: near death experience, their life flashing before their eyes. So 148 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 1: you were seeing all these things? Were you panicking? Were 149 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: you like in shock? Like what did your body feel like? Oh? Yeah, 150 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 1: I've had such a I've never felt more fear in 151 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: my life. I mean, every fiber of my entire being, 152 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: UM was just it was shaking uncontrollably. Um, I was 153 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,720 Speaker 1: going into shocks so physically, I was like experiencing shock. 154 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: Um every emotion and then no emotions at all, and 155 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: your numb and your shock. I mean, it's so hard 156 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: to describe in that actual moment. The my friend who 157 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,240 Speaker 1: I was with underneath of the table, his name was Seth, 158 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: and he had a lot of wherewithal and understanding of 159 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: what was happening, much more than myself. And I'm so 160 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: thankful that I was with him because he really helped 161 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: kind of guide us. And in fact, at one point 162 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: I didn't share it in my story, but he grabbed 163 00:08:49,320 --> 00:08:52,040 Speaker 1: my body and he said, Crystal, I promised that I 164 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: will take a bullet for you, Like he knew what 165 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 1: was coming when there was just a lot of chaos 166 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 1: and a lot of things I couldn't understand and that 167 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,079 Speaker 1: were happening around me. Oh my god. You you mentioned 168 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: that you had seen signs. Did you mean specifically that 169 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: morning you noticed that things were weird or leading up 170 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:17,560 Speaker 1: to Yeah, that's a great question. Ship, I would say 171 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: that day. I mean personally for me, I had woken 172 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: up late and I didn't get a chance to say 173 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: goodbye to my dad. And that was kind of a 174 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: routine we had every morning that particular day on our 175 00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: announcements for the school. They were always done on the 176 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: TV screens and they were telling us what was for lunch, 177 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: the sporting activities after school. And the quote that day 178 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: said you'll wish you weren't here today. And I think 179 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 1: that being the biggest sign um because those two boys 180 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 1: actually worked behind the scenes on the video production and 181 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 1: they had put that there kind of as a morning 182 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: of what was about to happen. Wow, So that came. 183 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: That was a message that came from them. Yes, crazy, 184 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:07,200 Speaker 1: I mean, and the day it is, it's it absolutely is. 185 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: And the day was chosen by those two boys because 186 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: it was Hitler's birthday. Things were already a bit strange 187 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: because it was four twenty and so things were a 188 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,640 Speaker 1: bit off. I mean, there was just a lot of 189 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: a lot of kind of strange things about the day. 190 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: So the other thing that's so interesting, and I went 191 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: to a really small high school and so I don't 192 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:28,960 Speaker 1: know how big Columbine was, but we knew everyone, and 193 00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,280 Speaker 1: so I wonder, like you said, you had friends who 194 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: you were watching die, which I cannot process the trauma 195 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: around that and how secary that would be. But then also, 196 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: did you know the two shooters? You know, You're exactly right. 197 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 1: We did have a really big school, about two thousand 198 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: plus students, so impossible to know everybody. They were seniors. 199 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: I was a junior. I remember looking back, I remembered 200 00:10:56,480 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: passing them in the hall, um, but I did not 201 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 1: know them person only. Okay, And then what was it 202 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:07,480 Speaker 1: like in the library as you watch your friends be shot? 203 00:11:07,960 --> 00:11:10,200 Speaker 1: What like what is going through your head in that moment? 204 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't actually see them shot because my 205 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: friend Seth kind of had his body sheltering mine was 206 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,760 Speaker 1: kind of buried in his chest. Thankfully, I'm a very 207 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: sensitive person, um, and so I'm very thankful I didn't 208 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:31,080 Speaker 1: actually see that. But but I don't think, I mean, 209 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: you really almost to protect yourself, you you have to. 210 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's defenses that that we that um, 211 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: that our bodies just kind of do naturally. And so 212 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 1: for me, even as I was stepping over those bodies 213 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: and I wasn't processing it, I wasn't understanding what was 214 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: happening in the moment. It took some time to go 215 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: back and to really process and work through that. So 216 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:00,320 Speaker 1: then it went that. It ended up the guys committed 217 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: suicide and you guys were able to escape the library thankfully. 218 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 1: What happened next, um, you know, when we first came 219 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: out of the library, it was it was very disorienting 220 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: because we went from this dark room that was filled 221 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:19,959 Speaker 1: with smoke and the fire alarms were going off and 222 00:12:20,440 --> 00:12:22,920 Speaker 1: we step out into the bright sunlight and trying to 223 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: figure out where we can go, where we're safe. I mean, 224 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,440 Speaker 1: everything we just had known for sixteen years of our 225 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: lives was turned upside down. We didn't know who to trust, 226 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: where we could go that was safe. I saw a 227 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: police car just a few yards from the school, and 228 00:12:37,640 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: so we ran to get behind the police car. There 229 00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:43,720 Speaker 1: was no police officer. They were off exchanging gunfire with 230 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: the boys in the library, but most of the students 231 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: had been very badly wounded. There was a lot of blood. 232 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: I mean again, it just looked like a war zone 233 00:12:53,360 --> 00:12:56,200 Speaker 1: in front of me, and people were springing to action 234 00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,439 Speaker 1: and they were they were helping people who were bleeding 235 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: and but I hysterical over the side of blood and 236 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 1: and over the wounds and from the shock of it all, 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,360 Speaker 1: really and so we were waiting for police cars to 238 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 1: come take the most wounded away from the scene, and 239 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: I was separated from Seth and Sarah, my friends, and um, 240 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: I was I was picked up by a police car 241 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: and dropped off in a field just behind the school. 242 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: And that's kind of when everyone scattered and I didn't 243 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: know where to go. I didn't know what to do. Um, 244 00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 1: my safety, my security had been stolen. Yeah, so what 245 00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: did you do? You just? Yeah? I stood in place, 246 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: and someone with the media came and they were interviewing me. 247 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: I mean I have clips of me literally moments after 248 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,560 Speaker 1: coming out of the library, absolutely hysterical, trying to make 249 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: sense of it. And um, it wasn't a few minutes later, 250 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,319 Speaker 1: a friend came up Seth again and found us, or 251 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: found me rather, and we tried to make our way 252 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: to to a phone so we could call our parents, 253 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,479 Speaker 1: so we could let them know that we were okay. 254 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: I cannot imagine being a parent and then getting that call. 255 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: I mean, have you taught to your parents? I'm sure 256 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,360 Speaker 1: about what was going through their had like, were they 257 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: aware that the shooting was happening. They they were. In fact, 258 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: someone had called my parents and told them, Hey, Crystals 259 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: in the library. We know she's in there. And it 260 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: was at this point that reports were already coming in. 261 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: Hey all of the shooting is taking place in the library. 262 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 1: My parents really fear the worst. They didn't. They didn't 263 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: think that I would make it out alive. And I 264 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: remember when I first picked up the phone and I 265 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: talked to my dad. I mean, it was finally like 266 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: my dad just all of his emotion, his rush of 267 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: emotion just just came out. I rarely heard my dad 268 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: cry and listening to him weep when he heard my voice, um, 269 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: and I just kept asking him, Dad, where were you? 270 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 1: I didn't you per text me? Which is so horrifying. 271 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,160 Speaker 1: You know that that that was my question. I mean, 272 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 1: all I wanted was my my dad, my parents in 273 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: that moment um. But now, as a parent, myself of 274 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,600 Speaker 1: three young kids, I can't imagine either, Kelly. I can't 275 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: imagine getting that call. I can't imagine watching that happen 276 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: on the news. It's it's it's heartbreaking, it's horrifying. Yeah, 277 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: it makes me sick. In the stomach, that the media 278 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: came directly to you, Like that piece of it is 279 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: to me like a big part of kind of the 280 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: things that Chip and I talked about about, like what's 281 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:38,400 Speaker 1: wrong with our culture, But like the fact that they 282 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 1: would come directly to a person that's so clearly in 283 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: shock and in need of help is wild. Yeah, you know, 284 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,600 Speaker 1: media is definitely, Um, it's been it's been a problem 285 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:53,800 Speaker 1: since the events at Columbine. I mean, I I still 286 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: think we need to hold media a bit more accountable 287 00:15:56,640 --> 00:16:01,200 Speaker 1: to how they actually, um, you know, report these kinds 288 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 1: of things. And I think even from day one, the 289 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: way that they talked about the two shooters giving them 290 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: such notoriety, which is what a lot of a lot 291 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: of these shooters desire. Um, there's I mean, there's so 292 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,440 Speaker 1: many things, and we've seen a little bit of of 293 00:16:19,040 --> 00:16:22,920 Speaker 1: you know, we've seen a little bit of progress in 294 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: that area, but I still think we have a long 295 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: way to go. I mean, I'm always mortified when I 296 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: see another shooting happen and they immediately go towards the 297 00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: kids and the young people and the you know. I 298 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: mean it's hard enough to talk when you're in shock, 299 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: but especially as a young person who doesn't have the language, 300 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: who doesn't have the understanding or the or the emotional 301 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: capability to even to even express themselves. Yeah. Yeah, it's 302 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: a it's a fine line because obviously the media is 303 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: also trying to figure out what's happening, so they can 304 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, alert the public to it. But it's it 305 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: seems a depth what it seems exploitative to you know. 306 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:05,720 Speaker 1: I mean, but you know, again, they didn't know your 307 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: story yet until they spoke to you, so there's a 308 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: little bit of forgiveness there. But I definitely think when 309 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: it's when it turns to the point where they know 310 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: who the shooters are and they glorify that in any 311 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: sort of ways, that's when they're really crossing the line. Um. Yeah, 312 00:17:22,520 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: I mean something that I was thinking about, like when 313 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,239 Speaker 1: you were talking about leaving the library. You know, you 314 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,639 Speaker 1: in that instance didn't even know the full picture of 315 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: what was going on, Like you knew what was happening 316 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,440 Speaker 1: around you, So I can imagine the terror that, like, 317 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,480 Speaker 1: you know, when when you make that decision to leave 318 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,360 Speaker 1: the room, like you don't know if there's if it's 319 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: just these two, or if there's more people or what's 320 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,359 Speaker 1: going on, um, And you know, then to have to 321 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:52,640 Speaker 1: like be outside of the building, not knowing like who's watching, 322 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: like who's tag teaming mess it's I mean, I just 323 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: it's my My body's had I've had chills the whole 324 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: time you've been talking. It's like it's impossible to put 325 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: myself in your shoes. Yeah, yeah, I mean I think 326 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: that's what's so hard when something like this happens, when 327 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: when an event is unfolding, is because there is so 328 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 1: much chaos and there's so so many moving pieces and 329 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: there's so many unanswered questions. I think that's what makes 330 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: it difficult for law enforcement, and that's what makes it 331 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: difficult for students everybody involved, because there's so much chaos 332 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:31,760 Speaker 1: and so much confusion surrounding it. Um. But I would 333 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: definitely to your point that you just said, I would. 334 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: I would say, you know, part of my heart is 335 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:42,400 Speaker 1: because in the media, the trauma that the event itself 336 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 1: is always so sensationalized. My hope is always to sensationalize 337 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: the hope and the stories and the people who survived 338 00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 1: and the people that we lost telling their stories. I 339 00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: think those are very important pieces that sometimes we miss. Yeah, 340 00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: I agree with that. I mean, we we recently taught 341 00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 1: to some one from every town and she's also lost 342 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: many people in her family to gun violence, and she've 343 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 1: made a specific point to say say their full name 344 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: every time she talked about the story. And I pointed 345 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:14,919 Speaker 1: that out because to me, that was that is one 346 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,800 Speaker 1: of the things that gets really lost as we, like 347 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 1: you said, either um sensationalized the shooters or the people 348 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: who caused these things, or uh, we just say the 349 00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: victims and we don't. We just kind of like it's 350 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 1: a generalization versus like a specific No, this is a 351 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: life lost. Here's who that person was, here's their name, 352 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,280 Speaker 1: here's who their family was, you know, because I think 353 00:19:38,320 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: that is how we've become so desensitized, or we have 354 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: become so desensitized to all of these losses. Yeah, I 355 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,439 Speaker 1: think you're right. I think when you um, when you 356 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: speak in general terms, Yeah, it's easy to just post 357 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:53,960 Speaker 1: it on social media, as you said, and move along, 358 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: maybe get angry for a couple of days and move along. 359 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: But I think sometimes we can allow those into hence 360 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: emotions that we feel to if we channel those to 361 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: move us forward in progress, I think we can really 362 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,320 Speaker 1: use those in a productive way. And I think there's 363 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,440 Speaker 1: a fine line of just being angry and being divided 364 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 1: just for the sake of it, but then there's another 365 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: to really taking those things and using them towards towards action. 366 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,359 Speaker 1: And you know, for me specifically, I have such a 367 00:20:24,560 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 1: heart to wrap my arms around a hurting community and 368 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: walk alongside of survivors. Sadly, I often talk about the 369 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: fact that you know, we're this, this this community of 370 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: survivors is growing exponentially by the day, you know, and 371 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: I want people to understand that as a part of 372 00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: this community, that they're not alone, that they're seeing their heard, 373 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,800 Speaker 1: their value, their story matters regardless of where they were 374 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,639 Speaker 1: during the shooting. I just I want people to know 375 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: that that's what we're here for. We're gonna link arms 376 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: together and we're gonna we're gonna see you through this. 377 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,959 Speaker 1: We're gonna walk you towards hope and healing. It's one 378 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: of those things where it's, like you mentioned this before 379 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: we got on the podcast, but like Chip and I 380 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,199 Speaker 1: can sit here and empathize or sympathize with you and 381 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 1: be like this, I can't imagine what that would feel 382 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,960 Speaker 1: like and that's the point. We literally can't imagine it, 383 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 1: and so there's only so many people are the community, 384 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,680 Speaker 1: like you just described, of people who can truly understand 385 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: what that feels like and what the person might need 386 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: after the fact, because it is a completely life changing event. 387 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: As you mentioned, the trauma around it is not something 388 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,240 Speaker 1: that just goes away, you know, And so it's learning 389 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: to live with this new new experience that you went through. 390 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: And I'm sure having the support of others who can 391 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: relate is just undeniably helpful. Yeah, you know, I think 392 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 1: oftentimes when we walk through anything, now this is for 393 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: a survivor or anybody who's who's walked through difficult time, 394 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:01,679 Speaker 1: and that's all of us. That's all of us with 395 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: skin on walk this planet. We all can understand what 396 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: it is to go through difficult circumstances. Um. But I 397 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,719 Speaker 1: really want people to understand that the fear and the 398 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 1: anger and the bitterness and the confusion and the anxiety 399 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: and all of those feelings that you feel, those are normal. 400 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: It doesn't people feel broken. They feel like, oh this 401 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: is I'm I'm never going to be the same again 402 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,800 Speaker 1: and and I can't be fixed. And what I say 403 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: to people is those are completely normal. Those are those 404 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: are so human and they're so natural, and really, for me, 405 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: they're indicators of areas that need to be addressed. And 406 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:48,159 Speaker 1: so instead of leaving people feeling hopeless and feeling like 407 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: they're forever broken, we're saying, no, this is normal and 408 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: there's a way through. We know enough about trauma on 409 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: the brain and body, and therefore we know that it 410 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: can be healed. And so I is try to bring 411 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 1: that message of hope to other survivors, to say, it 412 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,159 Speaker 1: doesn't end here, the trauma, the tragedy, It doesn't have 413 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:10,280 Speaker 1: the last say, but there's a way through it, and 414 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: there's a way to thrive, not just survive, but thrive 415 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,159 Speaker 1: on the other side. Yeah. Can I ask it, Did 416 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 1: you ever feel guilty for surviving? Absolutely? Yes. Survivor's guilt 417 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: is probably one of the most common things that all 418 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: of survivors feel, this idea of I'm thankful to be alive, 419 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 1: but why did I survive and other people didn't? And 420 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,000 Speaker 1: I mean I can say from personal experience that yes, 421 00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,160 Speaker 1: I was grateful that I survived, but there were so 422 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: many days that I wished that I had died. I mean, 423 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: the pain was overwhelming, and the grief was so suffocating, 424 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: I didn't know how I could walk through. Um. And 425 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 1: and yet you know, obviously that was in the days after, 426 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: but it's a very common thing. So even in in 427 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: my kid's book to Survivors, I talked about the importance 428 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: of we must talk about the people that that we've lost. 429 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: And I know sometimes that can make people feel uncomfortable 430 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: or anxious to talk about people who have died. But 431 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: we have to remember their lives and the jokes that 432 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: they told, and we can laugh and we can smile. Um, 433 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,000 Speaker 1: that's the best way that we can carry them them 434 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: with us and and carry on their legacy. And in fact, 435 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: I remember a story when the shootings that call in 436 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: Mine happened, my friend Cassie had died. I remember going 437 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:31,199 Speaker 1: to her parents house for dinner, and I expressed that 438 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: very feeling to them, the survivor's guilt. I said, I'm 439 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: so I I feel so guilty that I'm here and 440 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 1: Cassie isn't. And I feel guilty every time I smile 441 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: or I laugh or I think about the future, because 442 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: you don't get to have that, and Cassie doesn't get 443 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: to have that. And they looked me in the eye 444 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 1: and they said, Crystal, the best way that you can 445 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 1: honor Cassie's life is you can go and live yours 446 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 1: and you smile again, and you laugh again, and you 447 00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: live your life, because that will honor our daughter the most. 448 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:02,239 Speaker 1: And that gave me kind of the permission that I 449 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:06,119 Speaker 1: needed to live life again and to know that it 450 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 1: would be okay and know that it was okay that 451 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: I lived. Yeah. Well, I'm imagining that there's a lot 452 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:15,440 Speaker 1: of mixed emotions to work through as grief does work. 453 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like, you know, you kind of 454 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: ride the waves of stuff, and this is one, like 455 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 1: we said, that not a lot of people can directly 456 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: identify with. And so how I found you was because 457 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: we have UM a community here what would you call 458 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:37,119 Speaker 1: on site a therapeutic place that people go retreat UM. 459 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,360 Speaker 1: They're all those all of those words all in one UM. 460 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 1: But it's in Nashville or outside of Nashville. And they 461 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: have now created a program that you were very helpful 462 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: in creating UM called Triumph Over Tragedy and it is 463 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: directly made for people who have gone through and experienced 464 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: such a tragedy as you have. So can you talk 465 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: us through a little bit about the program, what it 466 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:05,160 Speaker 1: looks like and how you guys are helping others. Absolutely, Chip, 467 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: you nailed it. It's a therapeutic retreat center. There go yes. 468 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 1: And so it's such a beautiful place. I mean the 469 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: campus alone, the sprawling, beautiful place where it's quiet and 470 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: you just get to reconnect with yourself and nature and 471 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,879 Speaker 1: all of those things. It's so important. Um, but we 472 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 1: have a forty bed facility that can accommodate I'm a 473 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,399 Speaker 1: variety of people who are in different you know, walks 474 00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: of life. But specifically, through the on site Foundation, we 475 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,680 Speaker 1: created a program called Triumph Over Tragedy. And I'm so 476 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: proud of this program, mostly because there is nothing like 477 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 1: it that exists for survivors out there. There's very few 478 00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 1: resources for survivors. And again, as we talked about these 479 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 1: these shootings have become so commonplace and this community of 480 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 1: survivors continues to grow. We wanted to create a space 481 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,880 Speaker 1: where people could um and get the tools and get 482 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,280 Speaker 1: the help within community that they deserve. It doesn't matter 483 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:12,720 Speaker 1: their background, their socioeconomic status, race, religion, gender, anyone gets 484 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,120 Speaker 1: to come. Anyone is welcome and they get to come 485 00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:20,560 Speaker 1: for free because of amazing donors who have made that possible, 486 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,879 Speaker 1: and so UM that's what's so special is that survivors 487 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: come from all over the country representing all of the 488 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,680 Speaker 1: different tragedies that we've seen over the last many years. 489 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,320 Speaker 1: They come for a six day experience. It's a curated 490 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 1: experience UM with the best in class experts in trauma 491 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: trauma therapy, and so we use a variety of different modalities. 492 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 1: Modalities is just a fancy way of saying different types 493 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: of therapy, because we've really learned that with specifically with 494 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:57,000 Speaker 1: UM school shootings, or rather with mass shootings, that UM 495 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: there's such a high level of acuity that it's really 496 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: important that talk therapy, the normal traditional talk therapy, it 497 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 1: doesn't always kind of process that trauma. So we get 498 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: to use psychodrama therapy and body movement therapy therapy, and 499 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,240 Speaker 1: adventure therapy and art therapy and all of these beautiful 500 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,400 Speaker 1: different things, and we get to do so within community 501 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:24,399 Speaker 1: because we believe that healing takes place within community. And UM, 502 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: it's just such a it's so amazing to see these 503 00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: survivors come in and they've been activated and they have 504 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,679 Speaker 1: all of their having nightmares and um, I mean the 505 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,680 Speaker 1: the tragedy itself is just controlling their lives. And to 506 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: see over six days this transformation that takes place in 507 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: all of us, um is remarkable, and people are getting 508 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,680 Speaker 1: their lives back. And though we can't go back to 509 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 1: who we were before, we get to walk out a 510 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: better version of ourselves. And that's really what triumph over 511 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: tragedy does. It gives you why long friends, people that 512 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: you get to to do life with because that pure 513 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: support I think we mentioned it before is so vital 514 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,760 Speaker 1: and we need one another. And so there's so many 515 00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: beautiful components to our program. I'm it's one of the 516 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 1: um highest privileges of my life that I've been able 517 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: to create this for fellow survivors. I bet I have 518 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:28,320 Speaker 1: such a mixed reaction to it because I want the 519 00:29:28,320 --> 00:29:30,720 Speaker 1: people who have been through it to have somewhere to go. 520 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: And it makes me really sad that we even have 521 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,040 Speaker 1: to have programs like this and that I'm sure the 522 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: numbers are continuing to grow even greater. And um, oh shoot, sorry, 523 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: I keep getting these alerts on my phone which are 524 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: not good for podcast recordings. Um, but yeah, it's just 525 00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: it's sad to me because the numbers are growing and 526 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: they haven't changed. And um, the fact that there is 527 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: a program out there like this is great and also 528 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: really sad. Do you have those kind of feelings about it? Oh? Absolutely, 529 00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: I wish with my whole heart that there was no 530 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: need for a triumph of a tragedy, that there was 531 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: no need for my books, that there was no need 532 00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: for me to speak. Um. You know, I've often said, 533 00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: and I've told my own children, Twenty three years ago, 534 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 1: when the events at Columbine happened, I hoped and prayed 535 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: that it would be the last that nobody would nobody 536 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: else would have to experience what my family and my 537 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: friends and my community experienced. And yet here we are, 538 00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: twenty three years down the road, and and the countless 539 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 1: lives that have forever been changed and forever impacted. Um, 540 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: it's absolutely heartbreaking. And I've I've often said, I'm so 541 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: sorry I haven't done enough. I wish I could do more. 542 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 1: I'm trying to do my part, but but it just 543 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: continues to happen. And and so to that end, I 544 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,520 Speaker 1: can tinue to do the work in in in way 545 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: of prevention, but also to support those who have, who 546 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:11,720 Speaker 1: have experienced and who have been affected by it. But 547 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: I I wish that I had a different job. I 548 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: wish that that this is not twenty three years later 549 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: my career. Um. But I think what I am most 550 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: passionate about is making sure that those who have been 551 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: through it have the support that they need and they deserve. Oftentimes, 552 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,960 Speaker 1: funds run up very quickly in communities where mass shootings happen. Um, 553 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: there's very few resources. There's very few people who are 554 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:44,240 Speaker 1: trauma training counselors and therapists who understand trauma, who can 555 00:31:44,280 --> 00:31:46,960 Speaker 1: help people walk through that. And so we want to 556 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: show people, um that there are tools, there are resources, 557 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: they exist out there, and we're trying to create more. 558 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: But um, you know, uh, it's it's it's slow going. 559 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: It's slow going this. People are understanding more and more 560 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 1: the need for mental health support, but it's it's been 561 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 1: a slow ground swell and I think we're finally starting 562 00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: to see that and the importance of that, but it's 563 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,080 Speaker 1: taking time. Yeah, I would imagine. So, I mean it's 564 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: two different conversations because obviously, the prevention piece, as you said, 565 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:20,120 Speaker 1: is a really important one, and we've had some of 566 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: those discussions on the podcast. UM, but I do want 567 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: to keep this one focused to the people healing, and 568 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: as as it is with any trauma, I know that 569 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 1: it becomes this lifelong journey that kind of ebbs and flows, 570 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 1: and you know, you can get sugar. So what happens 571 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,080 Speaker 1: for you when it happens again, like what happened for 572 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 1: you when you saw Uvaldi? Yeah, you know that's that's 573 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 1: a that's a kind of a complex answer. Mostly because UM, 574 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:50,400 Speaker 1: over the last twenty three years, I've worked very hard 575 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,479 Speaker 1: to to work on my own healing, UM and so 576 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,040 Speaker 1: thankfully I can say that when a shooting happens, I 577 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,000 Speaker 1: am not UM. I am activated in certain ways, but 578 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: I am not re traumatized, meaning I don't go back 579 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 1: to being a calmbine sixteen year old kid underneath of 580 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,960 Speaker 1: the table. I can feel empathy and I can feel 581 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: compassion for the people who are walking through it, and 582 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,720 Speaker 1: that then spurs me on towards action. I'm not crippled 583 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,680 Speaker 1: by those you know, by being reactivated, and that is 584 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,520 Speaker 1: not the case for everybody. A lot of times they 585 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,440 Speaker 1: see the news and they just it completely takes them out, 586 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:40,040 Speaker 1: you know, their emotions take over and they take control. 587 00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: I've learned enough tools and I've I've learned enough things 588 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: over the years that my emotions don't get to be 589 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:48,200 Speaker 1: the boss of me. That I actually get to be 590 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,400 Speaker 1: the boss of my emotions, and I find ways to 591 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: manage those. However, um, the compassionate side of me takes over, 592 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: and all I want to do is go and wrap 593 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 1: my arms around a commune. I want to go and 594 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:04,120 Speaker 1: I want to cry with people and and be a 595 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 1: listening ear because I think so often what happens is 596 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:11,520 Speaker 1: the survivor community is forgotten about. You know that that 597 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: that's a forgotten group of people as well as those 598 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: who are who have the secondary trauma, the family members, 599 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: the siblings, you know, everybody is impacted and affected by 600 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,040 Speaker 1: a shooting. And so that's really my heart is to 601 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: mobilize and to wrap you know, this community around, um 602 00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: my arms around a community, to bring the resources that 603 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 1: I can to let them know there's programs like Triumph 604 00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:41,320 Speaker 1: Over Tragedy that exists. Yeah, you just made a point. 605 00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,800 Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about this, but it does just extend 606 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: further than the people who are even in the shooting. 607 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:49,759 Speaker 1: Like I'm sure your parents had a really hard time 608 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:53,320 Speaker 1: sending you to school after that they have their own trauma. 609 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, And especially now as a parent of my 610 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,240 Speaker 1: own small three children, you know, the idea of something 611 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,920 Speaker 1: like You've aldi happens, or new Town happens, Parkland happens, 612 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 1: and then going and sending my kids off to school 613 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 1: the next day is quite a challenge. And it's not 614 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: just a challenge for me. That's true for every parent 615 00:35:14,360 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: in America. No parents should have to you know, kiss 616 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 1: and hug their kids goodbye at their school steps and 617 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: wonder if it's the last time they'll ever see them again. 618 00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,759 Speaker 1: I mean, that is just the fact that that's even 619 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:31,439 Speaker 1: a question in our minds. So tragic. Um, but yes, 620 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,280 Speaker 1: I mean the idea of being a parent who whose 621 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: child has been through a school shooting, or uh spouse 622 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 1: of somebody who's been through a mass shooting. I mean, 623 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: the the secondary trauma, the trauma is so far reaching. 624 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 1: It's this chain reaction that happens. And that's why we 625 00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: need to mobilize and we need to really have mental 626 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,320 Speaker 1: health support for all of those involved, because I believe 627 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: that that you know, it's not just the survivors, but 628 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: to help the survivors, we have to be healthy as 629 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: a community. Um. And so that's really I think what 630 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 1: we're trying to do. And that's why even a triumph 631 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 1: over tragedy, we have this education component that if you 632 00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 1: could understand why you're feeling the same, why you're feeling 633 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:17,719 Speaker 1: the way that you're feeling, or or why you have 634 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,240 Speaker 1: those nightmares, you know, it helps you to actually process 635 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: it and walk through it. And so I think that's 636 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:27,800 Speaker 1: an important piece in our culture. How do too? Also, 637 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: you mentioned, um that you have some books, and I 638 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: want to talk about those, because you have a book 639 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,399 Speaker 1: you said, about your story in general, that you wrote 640 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,280 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and then now you've transitioned into 641 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: children's books, which again I have that same mixed feeling 642 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,239 Speaker 1: of like I hate that we have to do this, 643 00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:46,000 Speaker 1: but because it is the nature of some of the 644 00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 1: things we have to deal with in our culture, I'm 645 00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:50,400 Speaker 1: glad that you're putting resources out there. So tell us 646 00:36:50,440 --> 00:36:54,600 Speaker 1: about all three books and um, and kind of what 647 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,479 Speaker 1: made you want to do that to write about this stuff. Yeah, 648 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: my first book is called Mark for Life, and like 649 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: you said, it's just kind of the book about my 650 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: story written many years ago of course life has gone 651 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,319 Speaker 1: on and there's a lot to add to that story. Um, 652 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,719 Speaker 1: that's more of the chapter book, more for adults. And 653 00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:16,440 Speaker 1: then you also mentioned I've got a couple of children's books. 654 00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,319 Speaker 1: One is called a Kid's Book about school shootings and 655 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 1: one is called a Kid's Book about School Shootings for Survivors. 656 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,440 Speaker 1: And really the heart behind of the two kids books is, 657 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,240 Speaker 1: you know, as a as an adult, as a parent, 658 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: it's really difficult to have this conversation with our kids, 659 00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:38,240 Speaker 1: especially um as as the frequency of of shootings happen. 660 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,800 Speaker 1: It dominates the headlines and it dominates the hearts in 661 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,720 Speaker 1: the minds of our kids, and especially as they're walking 662 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: through these these active shooter drills or lockdown drills, they're 663 00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:53,560 Speaker 1: constantly thinking about what if this happens to me. So 664 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: it's really kind of talking about how important it is. Yes, 665 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: they happen, she Eotings are still very rare, but we 666 00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: have a plan in case of an emergency, just like 667 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: we wear a seatbelt when when we're in the car, 668 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 1: or a safety helmet in case we fall off our bikes. 669 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 1: It's important to have a plan. But adults are are 670 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,560 Speaker 1: working on that. We're doing everything we can to keep 671 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: you safe. Just reassuring kids that that they're safe and 672 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,319 Speaker 1: we're doing our part to help keep them safe. And 673 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: then it's also giving those practical tools things like that 674 00:38:26,680 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: we teach at the on site you know, foundation, things 675 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: that we teach through UM Triumph over tragedy is how 676 00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:36,799 Speaker 1: we breathe through things, and we can notice things to 677 00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: help ground ourselves, or we can say a phrase over 678 00:38:40,120 --> 00:38:43,080 Speaker 1: and over again to kind of calm our nerves when 679 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,320 Speaker 1: we're when we're feeling afraid. UM. It's giving them tools 680 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,600 Speaker 1: that they can kind of help them when they're feeling 681 00:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,920 Speaker 1: afraid or they're feeling you know, anxious about something. And 682 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,759 Speaker 1: then it's also empowering young kids to say you can 683 00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,000 Speaker 1: make change. You can help right letters, or you can 684 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: create a kindness club at your school, or you can 685 00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:06,560 Speaker 1: talk about a plan to make sure that you're you're 686 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,480 Speaker 1: prepared in the event of an emergency. Kind of empowering 687 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: kids to let them know it doesn't matter how young 688 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,000 Speaker 1: you are, you can make change in UM, in the 689 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:19,239 Speaker 1: in your school, in your neighborhood, in the world. So 690 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: it's really several that that kid's book about school shootings, 691 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:25,960 Speaker 1: and it's creating a safe space for kids to ask 692 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:30,399 Speaker 1: questions without judgment because they're thinking about it and they're 693 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: wondering about it. And if we don't talk about it, 694 00:39:33,320 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 1: kids think it's taboo, they think it's too scary. But 695 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,319 Speaker 1: when we open up that dialogue and we create that 696 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,440 Speaker 1: safe space, we then get to teach kids, Okay, it's 697 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:45,680 Speaker 1: okay to have these emotions. That's normal. Here's what we 698 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,800 Speaker 1: do with them, and here's how you can infect change. 699 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: And then the kid's book about school shootings for Survivors 700 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: was born out of the events that happened in New 701 00:39:55,640 --> 00:40:01,760 Speaker 1: all Day and it's really me speaking directly to another survivor, saying, 702 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: you're not alone. I understand the survivor's guilt and the 703 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:08,920 Speaker 1: grief and all of the feelings that you're feeling. Are 704 00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,919 Speaker 1: none of the feelings that you're feeling, that paradox of 705 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:16,000 Speaker 1: wanting to sleep but nightmares keep you up, wanting to eat, 706 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: but you're not hungry, you know, speaking directly to what 707 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: they're facing in the immediate days after a tragedy and 708 00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: telling them that they can remember the people that they lost, 709 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,279 Speaker 1: and you know, just reminding them once again that they're 710 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,800 Speaker 1: not alone. So that's kind of a heart behind those books. 711 00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: That's why I wrote those books, And again I wish 712 00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,840 Speaker 1: they didn't have to be written, but I am thankful 713 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: that I get to help kind of reframe the conversation 714 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,839 Speaker 1: and open up the dialogue. My dad always says, I'm 715 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,160 Speaker 1: not going to get this right, the verbage, but he 716 00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: says something about like, your greatest hardship is usually the 717 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 1: way that you end up helping people in your life, 718 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: and it becomes your greatest gift and your greatest asset. 719 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: And I hear so much of that in your story. 720 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: So thank you for doing all the work that you're 721 00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:05,880 Speaker 1: doing and using the pain and the trauma that you 722 00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 1: experienced to help others. I just think that is so 723 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:11,879 Speaker 1: great and so beautiful. Well, thank you, Kelly. That means 724 00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:13,640 Speaker 1: a lot a lot of times. The way I look 725 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:17,240 Speaker 1: at it is using our mess can so often become 726 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,839 Speaker 1: our message. You know, really believe that that's possible. I 727 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,400 Speaker 1: believe that if we choose to walk through the healing, 728 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: that it will come and that we can use it 729 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: in a positive way. And so that's really always my heart. 730 00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:33,600 Speaker 1: My intention is, you know, to to share that message 731 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: with other survivors and and all of us who walked 732 00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,240 Speaker 1: the planet Earth. You know, who walk through difficulty, there's 733 00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,919 Speaker 1: always hope, and where there's hope, there's life. Yeah, exactly, 734 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: was there a moment where you felt like you at healed, 735 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,440 Speaker 1: Like I know, this is something that will be with you, 736 00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:56,360 Speaker 1: you'll carry it forever, but like, was there a moment 737 00:41:56,600 --> 00:42:01,279 Speaker 1: that you felt the weightlift chip? You know, that's a 738 00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:06,400 Speaker 1: great question, because once you walk through something like this, UM, 739 00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:08,640 Speaker 1: it is a kind of thing that stays with you 740 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:11,759 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. But it doesn't define me. 741 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 1: It's a part of my story, it's part of who 742 00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:17,359 Speaker 1: I am. And I would say that there wasn't one 743 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,520 Speaker 1: defining moment that that it was for me. A lot 744 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: of things. It was. I was surrounded by an amazing family, 745 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:29,000 Speaker 1: an amazing excuse me, an amazing family, an amazing community, 746 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 1: an amazing church, an amazing trauma trained therapist. And one 747 00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,239 Speaker 1: of the things, a couple of things that were very 748 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:38,960 Speaker 1: healing for me was being able to tell my story 749 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,919 Speaker 1: over and over again, whether that was speaking it out 750 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,560 Speaker 1: or in written form, because it kind of helped me 751 00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:49,680 Speaker 1: to decompartmentalize it and just you know, it really helped 752 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,960 Speaker 1: me work it out. UM and and for for the 753 00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: fear not to control me anymore, because it would be 754 00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: so easy to just kind of stay trapped in that fear, 755 00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,320 Speaker 1: never go anywhere, because we've seen shootings happen at grocery 756 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 1: stores and movie theaters and um nightclubs and I mean, 757 00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,560 Speaker 1: you name it. And so being able to live life 758 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: again and just you know, choosing to live life and 759 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: choose hope. Um uh, it's I think it's a lot 760 00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,799 Speaker 1: of things. And then also I started traveling overseas. I 761 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,279 Speaker 1: remember when I was sixteen years old, I went to 762 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:26,400 Speaker 1: war torn Kosovo. The war was kind of coming to 763 00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: an end, and I was able to bring Christmas gifts 764 00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:34,040 Speaker 1: to children there, and I saw myself in the young 765 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,080 Speaker 1: kids who had survived war. I'm not saying what I 766 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,560 Speaker 1: went through was war, but I looked into their eyes 767 00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,160 Speaker 1: and I saw myself reflected back in so many ways. 768 00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,720 Speaker 1: And I saw their resilience, and I saw their strength, 769 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: and I saw how they were choosing hope, and I thought, okay, 770 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: I can too. You know. I think it's our stories 771 00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: that connect us and remind us of our humanity and 772 00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,160 Speaker 1: give us courage to keep living. We need to keep 773 00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:02,839 Speaker 1: telling our story worries. They matter, They matter so much, 774 00:44:02,880 --> 00:44:07,080 Speaker 1: and I think that connectedness and humanity is key to 775 00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:09,440 Speaker 1: to kind of finding our way out of out of 776 00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,600 Speaker 1: everything that we are experiencing right now. Um. But I 777 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: just in and I decided I want to do this 778 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,239 Speaker 1: with my life. I want to help other people. And 779 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: even though every time I would go overseas and I 780 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: would see people what I believed were living their Columbine 781 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 1: like experience. They didn't have a home to return to, 782 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,920 Speaker 1: they didn't have warm food, they didn't they lost their 783 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:33,960 Speaker 1: family members, and and they were living their Columbine like 784 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: experience two seven. And I thought, Okay, this is what 785 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,359 Speaker 1: I want to do. I want to help people. And 786 00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,319 Speaker 1: every time I would help somebody else, healingly began to 787 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: take place, like that was the natural byproduct that started 788 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: to happen. And I didn't do it for that reason, 789 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: but over time, all of those experiences started to shape 790 00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,680 Speaker 1: and change me. And so, to answer your question in 791 00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,600 Speaker 1: a long roundabout way, is that think it was a 792 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: lot of things that really contributed to my healing. And 793 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,680 Speaker 1: it was a process of time. It took time. There 794 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,399 Speaker 1: was no you know, there was no timetable. People would 795 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,920 Speaker 1: be like aren't you better yet? And that's just that's 796 00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:16,360 Speaker 1: not that's not what happens when we walk through tragedy. 797 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,600 Speaker 1: There's no timetable. Nobody gets to tell you how to 798 00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:22,239 Speaker 1: heal or how long it's supposed to take. It will 799 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:24,720 Speaker 1: take as long as it needs to for every single person. 800 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,799 Speaker 1: Is there as a survivor one thing that you would 801 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,759 Speaker 1: communicate to the public, to us, um, to people just 802 00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,879 Speaker 1: outliving their lives who haven't experienced something like this as 803 00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,480 Speaker 1: ways that we can help, Like how can we support 804 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:42,839 Speaker 1: people who have gone through things like this? And how 805 00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:46,880 Speaker 1: can we support helping this not happen again? Like in 806 00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:50,919 Speaker 1: your perspective, what would you say to that? Man? If 807 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:53,319 Speaker 1: I had the exact answer to that, I think that 808 00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:57,480 Speaker 1: we would see these these mass shootings being prevented and 809 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,040 Speaker 1: we would see a change in that way. Um, I 810 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:04,080 Speaker 1: think we need to continue to look at um all 811 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: the avenues that that will lead to solving this problem. 812 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,520 Speaker 1: I mean, it's a multifaceted problem that will take a 813 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:17,600 Speaker 1: multifaceted solution. It's not just a one size fits all. 814 00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,440 Speaker 1: I wish that it was, I truly wish that it was, 815 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: but we it's taken us a long time to get here, 816 00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:25,279 Speaker 1: and it's going to take us a long time to 817 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:29,719 Speaker 1: get out. But I think whatever sphere of influence that 818 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,799 Speaker 1: you have, you know, whether it is within policy and legislation, 819 00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, go that route. If it's if it's in 820 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 1: the mental health field, go that route. If it's in 821 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: marriage and family, go that route. If it's in schools 822 00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:45,520 Speaker 1: and education, go that route. But we need all hands 823 00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:47,960 Speaker 1: on deck. And I think what's important is we're so 824 00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: divided and we're just yelling at each other and there's 825 00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:54,120 Speaker 1: so much anger that we need to come together and 826 00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,399 Speaker 1: we need to have a conversation because I think we're 827 00:46:56,440 --> 00:47:00,120 Speaker 1: all closer on this issue than we are apart, and 828 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:02,279 Speaker 1: we just need to stop yelling, and we need to 829 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,799 Speaker 1: stop and being divided and come together because we all 830 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: want the same thing. We want to see these things stop. 831 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:10,960 Speaker 1: We want to see a better world for our children, 832 00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 1: we want to see a better world for ourselves. And 833 00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:15,520 Speaker 1: so I think it's coming to the table and it's 834 00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:18,879 Speaker 1: having that conversation with a lot of compassion, a lot 835 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,240 Speaker 1: of empathy, a lot of openness, and trying to find 836 00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,800 Speaker 1: trying to find a solution because I think that's ultimately 837 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:29,400 Speaker 1: what we all want yes, I agree, Yeah, yeah, I 838 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: think there's there's one thing that sort of flips out 839 00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: on its head, and it's the gun lobby, you know, 840 00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: because their goals are very different and sadly, you know, 841 00:47:39,800 --> 00:47:42,040 Speaker 1: they take the compassion part out of it because it's 842 00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:45,600 Speaker 1: they're thinking about their business. And um, but I do 843 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: I agree. I think that more people were were a 844 00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:51,839 Speaker 1: lot closer on the issue in terms of humanity, um 845 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:54,560 Speaker 1: than people want you know, you would think because of 846 00:47:54,600 --> 00:47:57,759 Speaker 1: the size of the argument. So um, I think it's 847 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,640 Speaker 1: really important that as we talk to people that we 848 00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: feel are all different sides of political lines, that we 849 00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,080 Speaker 1: approach the conversation with compassion and just from a very human, 850 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:12,080 Speaker 1: you know, nonconstitutional standpoint. You know, it's it's this is 851 00:48:12,160 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: lives and people that we're talking about. You're exactly right, 852 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: And I do think that we've lost sight of humanity 853 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 1: a bit. We need to come back to It's really 854 00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,480 Speaker 1: hard to hate someone, be angry at someone if you 855 00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,600 Speaker 1: know their story, if you can look at it, you 856 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:28,719 Speaker 1: know their background and what brought them to where they 857 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,840 Speaker 1: are today and why they're so passionate. We all have 858 00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,640 Speaker 1: a story and we need to just listen. We need 859 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,040 Speaker 1: to talk a little less and listen a little bit more, 860 00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:40,680 Speaker 1: and I think that, you know, we'll find that human 861 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:45,800 Speaker 1: humanity and our in unity in that. Yeah. Well, Crystal, 862 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:48,080 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing your story with us, because I 863 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:50,040 Speaker 1: think it helps will help a lot of people just 864 00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,640 Speaker 1: to understand what that looks like. You know, like I said, 865 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:54,600 Speaker 1: we see it on the news, but it's really easy 866 00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: to separate yourself from that narrative if it hasn't actually 867 00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:01,200 Speaker 1: happened to you. So A really appreciate you being here 868 00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,680 Speaker 1: and sharing your story with us. I'm going to link 869 00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:07,640 Speaker 1: the books and the link to the on site website 870 00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:10,120 Speaker 1: in the description of this podcast. But where else can 871 00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: people find you? Yeah? You know, um, Crystal Woodman Miller 872 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: dot org. I believe my own website. I mean, I'm 873 00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:23,239 Speaker 1: on I'm on Instagram and some of those things. But 874 00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,600 Speaker 1: to be honest, I don't spend a lot of time 875 00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:29,879 Speaker 1: on social media for my own personal mental health. I 876 00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,920 Speaker 1: try to live life and be present where I am 877 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:36,200 Speaker 1: as a mom, as a wife, um and so. But 878 00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: but I am definitely on those channels under Crystal Woodman Miller. Um. 879 00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 1: So yes, so you can look for me there, But 880 00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: I I just um, Thank you so much, Chip and 881 00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 1: Kelly for having me and and thank you for your 882 00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,799 Speaker 1: passion and your sensitivity and for just having a really 883 00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,239 Speaker 1: important conversation. Thank you for highlighting triumph over tragedy. I 884 00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:58,800 Speaker 1: mean again, that is that is my heart. So I 885 00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,439 Speaker 1: appreciate you just making space so that we could talk 886 00:50:03,440 --> 00:50:06,600 Speaker 1: about it. Well. It was our honor. So again, thank 887 00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: you so much, and thank you guys so much for 888 00:50:10,719 --> 00:50:14,400 Speaker 1: listening all this, all of the links, including Crystal's website. 889 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 1: We will get to the bottom of what that means 890 00:50:16,320 --> 00:50:19,279 Speaker 1: is will be in the description of this bio. Thanks 891 00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,680 Speaker 1: so much again, Crystal, thank you