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Speaker 1: On the bed Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women in um, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism the patriarchy zef in best

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Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bedel Cast. Hello and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Bechtel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus. My name

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Speaker 1: is Caitlin Durante, and this is our podcast about yeah

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Speaker 1: movie and an intersectional look at our favorite movies and

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Speaker 1: your favorite movies. Not always our favorite movies. Sometimes movies

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Speaker 1: we hate, these movies we hate, other times movies we loved,

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Speaker 1: but not this one, not today's movies. Okay, So we

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Speaker 1: are so um. Members of our patreon ak Matreon will

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Speaker 1: recognize this as a previous Matreon released episode. We are

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Speaker 1: unlocking an episode to get you all hyped up for

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Speaker 1: horror in October this year. So we're unlocking our Death

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Speaker 1: Becomes Her episode. And one of the reasons we're doing

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Speaker 1: that because we have been really busting our asses getting

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Speaker 1: the horror movies together for this year and it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be an amazing October. We've got the Descent, We've got us,

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Speaker 1: We've got a girl walks home alone at night. We've

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Speaker 1: got what's the fourth way pans Labyrinths Hans Labyrinthe. Yeah, there.

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Speaker 1: We we have an amazing October lined up for you,

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Speaker 1: mostly directors we haven't covered before, so look forward to that.

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Speaker 1: And this is just a fun ass episode, yes, and

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Speaker 1: one of our shorter ones. We've been releasing like two

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Speaker 1: hour episodes lately, and this one clocks in pretty pretty

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Speaker 1: short start. To give ourselves too much of a pat

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Speaker 1: on the back, but UM listeners will know we we

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Speaker 1: live in southern California and the air is batteries. So

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Speaker 1: the fact that we are recording two episodes that have

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Speaker 1: enough you know, it's it's it's it's a miracle. It's

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Speaker 1: a miracle that we're still producing a podcast in this economy.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine? Um. So, so we are unlocking a

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Speaker 1: Matren episode today, but as an extra treat for our matrons,

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Speaker 1: UM who if you're already a member or if you

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Speaker 1: don't know, our Matreon gives you two bonus episodes a

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Speaker 1: month with just Caitlin and myself talking about movies on

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Speaker 1: a weird theme that we pick that never makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Weird theme, you mean, amazing, incredible, outstanding theme that everybody

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Speaker 1: loves all the time right now, it's it September, which

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Speaker 1: is uh females driven sports movies with it in the title.

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Speaker 1: That's your name for it. I My favorite for it

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Speaker 1: is sport Timber, which is the same thing, female driven

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Speaker 1: sports movies with it in the title, but stick it

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Speaker 1: in with it. But in any case, what we for

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Speaker 1: five bucks a month you can get all of those episodes.

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Speaker 1: There's I think almost eighty bonus full length bonus episodes

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Speaker 1: in our Matreon at this point, and this is only one.

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Speaker 1: This one of the first ones we've ever unlocked, but

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Speaker 1: for a bonus. On top of the bonus for our matrons.

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Speaker 1: This month, we're also going to be unlocking our Titanic

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Speaker 1: live read that we did to benefit Junior High l

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Speaker 1: A last month. Um one of I think the Collapse

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Speaker 1: of the Century, some of your favorite guests and us

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Speaker 1: reading the entire script from Titanic. It's it's four hours long,

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Speaker 1: so long, it's longer than the movie. Guests like Princess

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Speaker 1: Weeks who was on the show just last week, Maggie

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Speaker 1: May Fish, Lindsay Ellis, Knese Mobley who's going to be

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Speaker 1: on the show next week. There's just so many wonderful

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Speaker 1: guests and more, and so we'll be unlocking that for

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Speaker 1: our matrons and uh, one last plug before we get

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Speaker 1: into the show. We had so much fun doing a

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Speaker 1: live read with with everybody, and I think it was

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Speaker 1: over three hundred listeners that were with us that night,

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Speaker 1: watching and like interacting with us live. We're going to

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Speaker 1: be doing it again next Friday, September for the movie

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Speaker 1: Wait for It Twice live, we're doing live reading of Twilight.

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Speaker 1: I like to call it a live reading slash roasting,

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Speaker 1: a live blood sucking to celebrate Robert Pattinson's recovery from

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. We're reading Twilight, um no, but we we are.

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Speaker 1: We are going to be reading it um Tickets will

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Speaker 1: be live today or tomorrow, so keep your eye on

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Speaker 1: our social media for that. There's going to be a

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Speaker 1: donation based way to do it because we are benefiting

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Speaker 1: a local candidate that we are really excited about in

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Speaker 1: our area named Fatima Ichball Zubert. She is running for

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Speaker 1: a state representative against an incumbent cop and she's amazing

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Speaker 1: and we love her so much. So we're will be

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Speaker 1: listing information on how to get access to that broadcast,

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Speaker 1: which will be on the um on our social media

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Speaker 1: basic you'll donate to Fatima, send us the receipt, we'll

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Speaker 1: get you the link. It's easy. And you know we're

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Speaker 1: gonna be I'm gonna be Edward, Caitlin's gonna be bela

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Speaker 1: it is what it is. I can't believe. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to buy a wig, I think. And our guests are

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Speaker 1: going to be on a hose ni A, Sharine, Lana, Unice, Karama,

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Speaker 1: Danqua and uh future guests on the show, Jess Merwin.

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Speaker 1: So it is going to be simply a time so

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Speaker 1: we will be posting about it incessantly, but we wanted

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Speaker 1: to let you know about it now, so yeah, keep

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Speaker 1: your eye over that, indeed. And then one last thing

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Speaker 1: about this episode in particular, since we we recorded it,

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Speaker 1: we released it about a year ago. If I'm not mistaken,

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Speaker 1: believe it's for last yes. So you might have noticed

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Speaker 1: in recent months we're on an ongoing pursuit and effort

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Speaker 1: to eliminate any language more vocabulary that is able list

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Speaker 1: and disparaging of mental illness. And this is we're talking

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Speaker 1: like pretty common stuff that is still very widely used.

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Speaker 1: Expressions like and I'm going to say them to let

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Speaker 1: you know, maybe what you should also try to eliminate

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Speaker 1: from your vocabulary. Vocabulary so things like that's crazy or

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Speaker 1: that was insane, or even like that's so dumb, things

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, the phrase stupid as well. There there's

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Speaker 1: so many common phrases that are rooted in just bigoted

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Speaker 1: statements against those experiencing mental illness and those with disabilities. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we've kind of been on an ongoing education process

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Speaker 1: for ourselves as well. Clearly this is stuff we've learned

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Speaker 1: uh and begun implementing into our lives in the last year,

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Speaker 1: So we a We're also going to include a link

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Speaker 1: in our description where you can learn more about that

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Speaker 1: and more about um, the origin of these common phrases

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Speaker 1: that are actively harmful. Yes, that said, we wanted to

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Speaker 1: acknowledge that because there are a few uses of language

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Speaker 1: like this in the episode, because it was prior to

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Speaker 1: us being aware of this, So do a heads up

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Speaker 1: for that. And with that, I guess let's get into

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Speaker 1: Death Becomes Her the best body horror movie of all time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's drink our potions that will make us live forever

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Speaker 1: but also crumble And did you know women's bodies are terrifying.

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Speaker 1: That's what I learned from this movie. We talked about

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Speaker 1: it in the episode. But we but if this is

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Speaker 1: your first episode of the Becktel Cast, welcome. Uh. We

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Speaker 1: look at movies that have had an impact on the world,

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Speaker 1: using intersexual feminist lens, using the Bechdel test as a

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Speaker 1: jumping off point for discussion. But Caitlin, I don't remember

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Speaker 1: what the Betel test is. Did you remind me? You

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Speaker 1: say that as a joke. But I honestly, in the past,

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Speaker 1: like a couple of weeks especially, I'm really like, my

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Speaker 1: memory doesn't work anymore. I couldn't. I can't remember there's

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Speaker 1: batteries in the air that we're breathing battery acid. Like

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Speaker 1: it's horrible. I I don't like, I couldn't. I'm off

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Speaker 1: topic already. But like I when this maybe passes the

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Speaker 1: Bechdel test. But I was like trying to think of

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Speaker 1: my stand up jokes recently, and I'm like, I can't

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Speaker 1: remember any of my stand up jokes. I can't remember

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Speaker 1: the names of places I used to go, Like, I,

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Speaker 1: yeah it, yeah, I was remember. I was like, oh yeah, ideally,

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Speaker 1: best case scenario, well, we will have to remember our

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Speaker 1: jokes at some point, um terrifying. No, yeah, I've also

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Speaker 1: been truly, I mean especially like extra shout out and

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Speaker 1: love to all of our listeners on the American West

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Speaker 1: Coast because it's it's tough right now and if you're

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Speaker 1: able to do mutual aid throughout this, uh please do.

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Speaker 1: But we're just just it's really the worst of times.

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Speaker 1: I can't remember. I can't. I was like, I, um,

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Speaker 1: you want a fun little anecdote before we told them

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Speaker 1: what the Bechtel test is if you're squeamish, maybe fast

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Speaker 1: forward fifteen seconds. I was walking to seven eleven yesterday,

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Speaker 1: bravely went outside and I got so nauseated by the

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Speaker 1: air that I threw up in my little mask. Had

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Speaker 1: to turn around. Oh no, it's uh sorry god. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've been having a NonStop headache for probably the past

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Speaker 1: like six days now. It's really awful. It's bad. Um,

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Speaker 1: So what is the pie test? And I think all

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Speaker 1: of that puking in your mask passes the buckel totally

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Speaker 1: past the backdel past. So that's that's another example of it.

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Speaker 1: It is, you know, not it's a flawed metric. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yes, that whole conversation I believe past the Bechtel

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Speaker 1: test because of the Bechtel Test is a media metric

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Speaker 1: originally developed and created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes

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Speaker 1: called the Bechtel Wallace Test, and it requires that. For

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Speaker 1: our purposes, we have made some adjustments to the tests

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Speaker 1: also another recent development of ours um but our newest

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Speaker 1: version of the test is two people of any marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender must have names, must speak to each other about

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Speaker 1: something other than a sisman. So that is the test test.

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Speaker 1: It's complicated. So we use that to inspire the premise

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Speaker 1: of the show and then we dive into a much

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Speaker 1: deeper conversation about representation in intersectionality and inclusivity and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, Goldi Han and Meryl streep at different at

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Speaker 1: different times. So yes, we're we're excited to share this episode.

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Speaker 1: Would we hope you enjoy it? And a reminder if

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Speaker 1: you enjoyed these episodes with just being Caitlin, it's a

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Speaker 1: little looser we're goofing around. Or if you're just running

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Speaker 1: out of episodes of the Battle cast on our main feed,

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Speaker 1: head over to the Matreon five bucks a month to

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Speaker 1: bonus episodes, and as of today, you can watch the

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Speaker 1: Titanic stream as well, so enjoy the rest of the episode.

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Speaker 1: Enjoy the Bell cast. Jamie, what's your history with the film?

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Speaker 1: Hadn't seen it? What about you? I had only seen

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Speaker 1: it for the first time about a year ago. It

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Speaker 1: was not at all on my radar until we started

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Speaker 1: the podcast and started getting requested him. Yeah, as I

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Speaker 1: I I and I intentionally did not do a ton

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Speaker 1: of research going into the viewing experience, which I'm glad

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Speaker 1: because it is such a wild ride. What a wild ride, indeed.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I saw it. I watched it about a

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Speaker 1: year ago, and then we just rewatched it together and

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Speaker 1: now we're ready to talk about it. I'm excited. There's

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Speaker 1: a there's there's a lot going on here. Some of it.

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Speaker 1: I love some of it. You know, we just have to.

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Speaker 1: That's why we have the podcast, and it's it's a

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Speaker 1: beloved movie. It's got a cult following. What a roller

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Speaker 1: coaster the film. It is, so the story, if I

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Speaker 1: may please do, thank you so much. We meet Madeline

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Speaker 1: Ashton Meryl Street. Welcome, We take a hard left, take

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Speaker 1: a car to Meryl Street. One of our weaker persistent jokes,

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Speaker 1: I disagree you're right, you're right, you're right. When you're right,

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Speaker 1: you're right. Um. She is an actor, a musical theater performer. Um.

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Speaker 1: But people don't like her anymore because they think she

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Speaker 1: is old and has lost her touch. But there is

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Speaker 1: one person who does still love her, and that is

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Speaker 1: Ernest Menville. Bruce Willis's character is a great Bruce Willis

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Speaker 1: the role of a lifetime. I would say, oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: He is a cosmetic surgeon. And the fiance of Helen Sharp,

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Speaker 1: which is Goldie Hawn, who is a front of me

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Speaker 1: of Madeleine's. She's a writer. She's a writer, which Madeleine

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Speaker 1: really undermined. She's like, are you still doing that writing

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Speaker 1: thing right? Which is personally triggering. Sure, and then Helen's

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Speaker 1: all like, oh my god, Ernest, you don't like Madeleine,

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Speaker 1: do you? And He's like, no, I have no interest

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Speaker 1: in her whatsoever. Cutt, I'm getting married. This is the

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Speaker 1: campiest movie with a fifty five million dollar budget that's

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Speaker 1: ever been filmed. It's well, okay, I would welcome contenders

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Speaker 1: and consume them happily. Sure, this is a very expensive

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Speaker 1: camp movie. Right. Then we cut to seven years later

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Speaker 1: and Helen has a wait and she is now a

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Speaker 1: crazy cat lady. She's evicted. Classic trope. Oh yeah, we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about it. She is evicted from her apartment, she's institutionalized,

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Speaker 1: and she's completely obsessed with Madeline Ashton's demise. Right and

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Speaker 1: then she and then we found flash forward seven years again.

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Speaker 1: Right and Madeleine and Ernest's marriage is not healthy. He's

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Speaker 1: an alcoholic. He is no longer a plastic surgeon, at

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Speaker 1: least like not for living people. He instead now makes

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Speaker 1: corpses look presentable for their funerals. Ya. Then, Madeleine receives

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Speaker 1: an invitation from Helen for Helen's book party, and Madeline

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Speaker 1: wants to look her best for the event, so she

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Speaker 1: goes in for a treatment to get rejuvenated, and a

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Speaker 1: guy there tells Madeleine about Lisel von Ruman ak Isabella.

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Speaker 1: She can help, but he is weird, so Madeleine ignores him.

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Speaker 1: Then she goes to Helen's event, and surprise, Goldie Hawn

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Speaker 1: has taken off the fat suit and she is a

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Speaker 1: successful writer. And Madeleine is not handling this well, so

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Speaker 1: she decides to go to Lisa von Ruman's place castle

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Speaker 1: and she sells Madeleine a potion that will reverse the

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Speaker 1: aging process, and it works, and her body tightens up

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Speaker 1: and her face looks younger in some of them. Us.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's so much I think spectacular body horror

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Speaker 1: in this movie, and uh, this is just the beginning. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: Helen has gone to Earnest to seduce him and sabotage

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Speaker 1: his relationship with Madeline, and she proposes a plan where

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Speaker 1: they drug and kill Madeleine but make it look like

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Speaker 1: an accident, and Madeleine returns home and she and Ernest

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Speaker 1: get into an argument and then he pushes her down

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Speaker 1: the stairs. And I truly I found and you know

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Speaker 1: that I need to watch this movie more. But I

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Speaker 1: found the moment where Meryl Streep is rocking back and

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Speaker 1: forth defying gravity on the stairs and we're like, is

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Speaker 1: she's going to fall or not to be the most

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Speaker 1: profound moment of the movie, because I think this movie

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Speaker 1: basically boils down to women versus the forces of gravity

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Speaker 1: over time, because it is that's a movie about aging,

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Speaker 1: and like was because this is like a pretty solid

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Speaker 1: creative team. I'm like, I wonder if someone was thinking

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Speaker 1: that because it is just like women versus gravity is

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Speaker 1: a central force in it. That's my little thought. What

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Speaker 1: a brilliant thought, Jamie so much. I did my best

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Speaker 1: on that one anyway. So yeah, they've gotten into an argument. Um,

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Speaker 1: they're screaming at each other, they're calling each other nasty names.

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Speaker 1: He is strangling her and then he pushes her down

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Speaker 1: the stairs and she breaks her neck, and then Ernest

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Speaker 1: calls Helen freaking out, and they're trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what to do. And as they're talking through it, uh,

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Speaker 1: Madeleine gets up off the floor because she's taken this potion.

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Speaker 1: She didn't die, even though her head is on backwards

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Speaker 1: now right, which is not easy to look at. The

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Speaker 1: whatever effects they did to accomplish that particular image is

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Speaker 1: troubling and scary and weird. So we're being weirdly like

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Speaker 1: diplomatic about it or like it is easy to view

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Speaker 1: with your eyeball. It just isn't. I mean, they did

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Speaker 1: the best with what they could in ninety what year

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Speaker 1: was it too? Oh see, I think it looks like

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Speaker 1: a little too close to real. This one an Academy

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Speaker 1: Award for Visual Effects, did it? Really? It is the

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Speaker 1: only thing it was nominated for it and it won. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I know, which is really just a testament to and

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Speaker 1: you know that that means not recent. Sure, I mean

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Speaker 1: Zamachas is a visual effects king. I'll say it. I've

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Speaker 1: seen back to she said it. I can't believe she

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Speaker 1: finally said it. I mean, he's no James Cameron. But

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Speaker 1: who's going on with this today? I missed the Matrion.

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Speaker 1: It's well, it's been a really long time since we

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Speaker 1: recorded a Matreon episode. I know, it's been really long

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Speaker 1: since we haven't had a refer e in the room

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Speaker 1: being like, wrap it up, idiots, it's good, it feels good.

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Speaker 1: So Madeleine turns her head back around and then yes,

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Speaker 1: She's like, Earnest, I need to see a doctor. So

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Speaker 1: he takes her to the e R. But she doesn't

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Speaker 1: have a heartbeat, and it turns out she is legally dead,

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Speaker 1: but she's still awake and moving around and she seems

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Speaker 1: alive because of this potion. But Earnest, being the doctor

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Speaker 1: science man that he is, thinks that this is a

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Speaker 1: cosmic sign that they should be together after all, which

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Speaker 1: is confusing. You know, No, I mean, he's he's an

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Speaker 1: interesting I'm like, I'm not quite sure what the comments

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Speaker 1: on masculinity is there, but there but it's something sure

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Speaker 1: true tv D and he takes her home and tries

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Speaker 1: to fix up her broken body, but Helen comes back

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Speaker 1: over and Madeleine overhears her talking to Earnest about their

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Speaker 1: plan to kill her, so Madeleine takes a rifle and

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Speaker 1: shoots Helen with it, but surprise, Hell has also taken

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Speaker 1: Liesel von Rumans potion, so she doesn't die, even though

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Speaker 1: she has a huge gaping hole in her mid section right,

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Speaker 1: and then she and Madeleine start physically fighting each other.

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Speaker 1: They're hitting each other's shovels, but then they realize there's

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Speaker 1: no point in that because neither of them can be

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Speaker 1: injured or die. And then they get to a point

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Speaker 1: where they both admit their wrongdoings and apologize for hurting

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Speaker 1: each other in the past. Uh and then they make

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Speaker 1: Ernest fix them up, but he's like, I'll do it,

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Speaker 1: but then I'm going to leave forever after that and

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Speaker 1: you'll never see me again. But then they worry. They're

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Speaker 1: like ship, like, we're gonna need touch ups, Like what

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Speaker 1: if it rains and he's not going to live forever

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Speaker 1: and we need him around. So they decide to take

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Speaker 1: him to Leesl's and make him drink the potion to right,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of intermittent violence and this will have

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Speaker 1: to backtrack to and they know he won't go willingly,

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Speaker 1: so they first try to drug him. That doesn't work,

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Speaker 1: and then they knock him out and take him to

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Speaker 1: Lisl's castle. She almost succeeds in convincing Earnest to drink

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Speaker 1: the potion, but at the last minute he's like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, I don't want to live forever. That sounds awful,

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Speaker 1: and then he gets away. He's not wrong, and then

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Speaker 1: Madeleine and Helen spot him and chase after him through

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Speaker 1: this like ball that Lisel's throwing all of her clients,

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Speaker 1: of whom include Elvis, Marilyn Monroe, and Andy Warhol ha

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Speaker 1: ha funny. So he's trying to escape via the roof

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Speaker 1: Earnest is and he slips and falls and he's dangling

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Speaker 1: there and he's about to fall to his death, and

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Speaker 1: Madeline and Helen are like, oh, man, you got to

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Speaker 1: take the potion because then if you fall, you won't die.

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Speaker 1: But he refuses and then he falls, but he lands

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Speaker 1: in a swimming pool, so he lives. And then he

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Speaker 1: finally gets away and Madeline and Helen are like, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll just have to take care of each

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Speaker 1: other and paint each other's asses. I kind of like that,

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Speaker 1: so did I. I know, I'm just like man, that

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Speaker 1: is kind of like, you know, for some of us

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Speaker 1: being toxic, it's nice to be toxic and also not alone.

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Speaker 1: That's true. They just start doomed to an eternity of

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Speaker 1: toxic friendship together. And then we cut to thirty seven

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Speaker 1: years later, which let me do the math here, because

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Speaker 1: the movie starts when it's ninety eight, and then seven

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Speaker 1: years passed, and then seven more years passed, and then

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Speaker 1: thirty seven years passed, putting us at ten years from now.

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Speaker 1: So Bruce Willis has ten years left to live. Let's

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Speaker 1: be very careful. But it has been said, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: not said diplomatic. Well, yeah, that's an official statement. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So it's thirty seven years later. Madeline and Helen are

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Speaker 1: at Ernest's funeral, but they're chipping, they're melting, they're falling apart,

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Speaker 1: and then they fall down some stairs and break into bits,

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Speaker 1: but they're still alive. In Helen's like, do you remember

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Speaker 1: where you parked in the car? And then that's the

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Speaker 1: end of the movie did it? Did It Do? And

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Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. Yep, you know, I like the movie.

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Speaker 1: It's very fun. It's so campy, it's fun with it.

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Speaker 1: It's wild. Um let's take a quick break and then

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Speaker 1: we'll come right back. So let's dive in. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: the first thing for me is that this movie, it

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Speaker 1: seems like it is like trying to be a commentary

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Speaker 1: on how society doesn't value older women. I totally agree

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Speaker 1: with society doesn't tends not to find older women to

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Speaker 1: be attractive. But I think it does not really go

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Speaker 1: far enough because then the movie focuses on, uh, these

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Speaker 1: two women who hate each other, and then they do

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Speaker 1: end up finding a common ground, but really only because

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Speaker 1: they have no other choice. This to me, it does

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Speaker 1: feel like kind of like a swell to that we

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Speaker 1: just happened to have covered a lot of movies that

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Speaker 1: kind of fall into this category recently, but like a

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Speaker 1: very earnest attempt to make a comment on something that

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Speaker 1: the writers are not necessarily qualified to make. The comment

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Speaker 1: to this movie is uh spoiler alert. As with most

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Speaker 1: movies written by multiple men um and directed by and

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Speaker 1: directed by Mr Zemecki himself. Um, yeah, I mean, this

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Speaker 1: movie was written by David cope Um, who also was

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Speaker 1: at least a co writer on Jurassic Park. Curtly does

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Speaker 1: right vision impossible, snake eyes, don't know what that is.

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Speaker 1: He's written a lot of damn movies, what I'm saying,

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Speaker 1: as well as Martin Donovan, who is also a famous screenwriter.

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Speaker 1: So it does seem like and based on the production

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Speaker 1: history that we'll get into in Jamie's contact corner, this

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Speaker 1: was a genuine attempt to make comment on women's aging

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Speaker 1: by people who you know, couldn't really fully understand it themselves.

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Speaker 1: And so I feel like, well, I don't feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, make a declarative statement for once in

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Speaker 1: your life, Jamie. I know based on watching the movie

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Speaker 1: that even though I think that the criticism of you

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Speaker 1: know how there's a huge stigma against women's aging is

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Speaker 1: made in the movie, movie is also very much not

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Speaker 1: above reducing an age woman's body to a cheap joke

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Speaker 1: or a women's body in general, because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of issues with that shaming in this and there's like

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Speaker 1: so it is like a weird back and forth and

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Speaker 1: it is extremely campy, but that doesn't excuse it from

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Speaker 1: anything of making like pretty solid foundational points about like society.

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Speaker 1: We live in a society Caalen, right what, and society

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Speaker 1: should not push women to the point of feeling like

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Speaker 1: they have to go to, let's say, extreme measures to

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Speaker 1: preserve their youth in order to function in society as

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Speaker 1: they would like to. I like that foundational point is made,

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Speaker 1: but the way that they choose to make it is

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Speaker 1: kind of all over the place. And then the way

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Speaker 1: they treat those two women after they have made this choice, yeah,

405
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: does not bode well because basically what happens is that

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Speaker 1: after they've both taken the potion to not only reverse

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Speaker 1: the aging process but prevent them from ever dying, doom right,

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00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: doom them to this weird morbid eternity of just falling apart,

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Speaker 1: and well they it becomes extreme. But like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like they're punished by wanting the well not like Okay,

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Speaker 1: So foundationally we can't really put and much blame on

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Speaker 1: Meryl Streeps or Goldie Hans's character for wanting to maintain

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Speaker 1: their youth, just based on especially the early nineties culture

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Speaker 1: that they're in for the majority of the movie. Sure, right,

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Speaker 1: but the movie does punish them by condemning them to

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Speaker 1: an eternity of body horse and then also turning those

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Speaker 1: characters not really into villains, but the way they start

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Speaker 1: behaving as soon as they've both died. I kind of

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Speaker 1: love her. I mean I do. It's like very funny

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Speaker 1: and like part of what I like about the movie,

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Speaker 1: but also like, if we really sit down and look

422
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:11,920
Speaker 1: at it and think about it, we I think are

423
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: meant to like very much. We'll see, Okay, we're working

424
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:18,560
Speaker 1: this out in real time. Okay, this is the matron.

425
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,960
Speaker 1: But I do feel like and we almost talked, we

426
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: talked about this while we were watching the movie that

427
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:29,479
Speaker 1: I am all for seeing a toxic relationship between two women.

428
00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 1: I love it. I've taken part in them myself, like

429
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: but but like truly like where we start, and even

430
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: though I feel like it starts from a too heightened place,

431
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 1: but where we start where you know one woman is

432
00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: jealous of another woman, which I feel like even we

433
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: in the past have sometimes been like, oh, that's so tropy,

434
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 1: which it can be, but I also think that there

435
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: is certain stories where that works because that trope doesn't

436
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,239
Speaker 1: come from nowhere. It comes from I feel, and like

437
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: I have felt in certain situations myself that you know,

438
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: there is an increased capacity for professional especially where this

439
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: seems to sort of start and then it gets personal

440
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: but like a jealousy between women, because there's this perception

441
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: and often a reality that there's only space for so

442
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: many women in a place. So I think that it

443
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: is a topic worth exploring, but these writers are just

444
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: not equipped to do it, and they and I think

445
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: it's so abruptly is like, oh, we don't really know

446
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: how to explore this in an interesting or like a

447
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: nuanced way at all, So let's just make it about boys,

448
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: which is what it becomes about. And then it goes

449
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: full trope territory of like damn, damn my boyfriend. So

450
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: it kind of sucks because I think that, you know,

451
00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: the dynamics of a female friendship, especially a longstanding one

452
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: like this, and the power dynamics that exists inside of

453
00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:04,040
Speaker 1: it really interesting, and it's been done in really clever

454
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 1: and cool ways, and just this this is a more

455
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 1: kind of reductive version of it, although I mean hopefully

456
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: it at at the time helped pave the way to

457
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,320
Speaker 1: more nuanced looks and stuff like that, but it does,

458
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 1: I mean, it gets pretty reductive of like she still

459
00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: my boyfriend very quickly, because it takes the movie a

460
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 1: really long time for the audience to understand why they

461
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,960
Speaker 1: don't like each other. Because we eventually understand that they

462
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: are childhood friends or maybe like they were friends as

463
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:37,960
Speaker 1: teenagers or something like that, it's still pretty vague, yeah,

464
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 1: and it takes a very long time for them to

465
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: even talk about it. But then finally there is a

466
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 1: reason that gets established to explain why they are friendemies,

467
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 1: or at least why Helen hates Magdalene, and it's because

468
00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: Madeline kept stealing Helen's boyfriends, and I guess she was

469
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: doing that to get back at Helen for calling her cheap,

470
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: which I don't know if that means. We also don't

471
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: really know what the context of that is, where it's, yeah,

472
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: you're set up with a very vague my immediate read,

473
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 1: but it's so vague that I feel like you can

474
00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: just project whatever you want onto. It was that like

475
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 1: Helen's character was from like a family that didn't approve

476
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: of Meryl's appearance, or maybe it was her socioeconomic background.

477
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 1: It wasn't clear. The word cheap is loaded right exactly,

478
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 1: So it's like is it a classist thing? Is like

479
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: is she calling her or is it like she calling

480
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 1: her like oh you're a cheap like hussy, which is

481
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 1: in the yea ly at the beginning to what was it?

482
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: I read it down it was like shameless, deep by

483
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: princess lude and lusty. You're like, thank you so much? Right,

484
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: so it's not even totally clear what she meant. But

485
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 1: then Madeleine retaliates by stealing many of Helen's boyfriends. It's

486
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,360
Speaker 1: all pretty reductive stuff. But but I am it takes

487
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: an hour and a half for this conversation take place.

488
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 1: But but at least these reasons are given. But again

489
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: they are, like you said, they're still very like trophy

490
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 1: and like women be cat fighting and that's the reason

491
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: why these women are cat fighting. Yeah, I don't think

492
00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,479
Speaker 1: that there's like had had the writers, you know, talked

493
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: to women their friendships or or reasons that you know,

494
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: like I don't know. I mean I think you could

495
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: talk to even a handful of women and be like, oh,

496
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,600
Speaker 1: you know, what was a friendship that of yours with

497
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: another woman that fell apart? And what were the reasons?

498
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: You could come up with a more grounded, relatable reason

499
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: other than like boys and mommy and daddy because um,

500
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,600
Speaker 1: you know a female friendships be complicably complicated as right.

501
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,640
Speaker 1: And then shortly after we are we understand the reasons

502
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 1: why they have had such a tense relationship and friendship

503
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,719
Speaker 1: throughout their lives. Then they both admit their wrongdoings and

504
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 1: apologize to each other. But it's at that point when

505
00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,480
Speaker 1: they start to like, you know, be on each other's

506
00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: sides and decide to like kind of be allies again.

507
00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: That's when the movie turns them into these like and

508
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: again the performances are very fun. This is still very

509
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,560
Speaker 1: fun to watch, but it's like they become like these

510
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 1: like kind of scary obsessed to I mean, like it

511
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 1: like enters like once they die, it says, I mean, yeah,

512
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:48,240
Speaker 1: it enters Roger Rabbit territory basically of like the cartoonishness

513
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 1: of how the characters like look and behave and it

514
00:33:52,760 --> 00:33:55,239
Speaker 1: is fun to watch. And that's the thing that Like

515
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: Bugs Me is movie viewers are smarter than people give

516
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: them credit for, like your average movie. You're talking about

517
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 1: me specifically, right, you're a Stubs member. I am telling

518
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,320
Speaker 1: all the Stubbs members out there and sponsor us hello,

519
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: but like, you know, like people aren't going into death

520
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,439
Speaker 1: becomes her looking for an example of how to live

521
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 1: their life, you know, so all you need in order

522
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: to justify the cartoony violence, which I appreciate that it's cartoony,

523
00:34:29,640 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: and it's like that's it's a very different movie if

524
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880
Speaker 1: you're like, I'm gonna you really slow instead of literally

525
00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 1: I'm gonna blow up your torso you know, like the

526
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: injuries are very cartoony. The comical cutting away to Meryl

527
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,280
Speaker 1: Street falling down the stairs for forty five minutes before

528
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: she hits the bottom of the staircase, like it's clearly

529
00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: done with like comedic intent, and all you need to

530
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:55,040
Speaker 1: justify all that cartoony violence is a solid reason for

531
00:34:55,080 --> 00:34:58,719
Speaker 1: these two characters to hate each other other than a

532
00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 1: vague scene throw in three quarters of the way through

533
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: the movie that doesn't even really answer any questions, and

534
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: it makes it clear. I'm like, I wouldn't even be

535
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 1: surprised if like that scene was added in later, because

536
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:13,400
Speaker 1: it seems like the movie does all it's looking to

537
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 1: do to justify two women disliking each other in the

538
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 1: first scene by saying, like she steals my boyfriends and

539
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: we see, you know, it's it's implied that having uh

540
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: boyfriend quote unquote stolen, which also removes all of the

541
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 1: accountability from the boyfriend, that is like grounds for Helen's

542
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,920
Speaker 1: life completely falling apart. She stops taking care of herself,

543
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: and she you know, reaches what is kind of implied

544
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: to be this catatonic state of living over the loss

545
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: of a boyfriend, which she says explicitly in dialogue she

546
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 1: blames a thousand percent on Meryl Streep and not at

547
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 1: all on Bruce Willis, who is just too much of

548
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: a sweetie earnest boo to know what he's doing, which

549
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,200
Speaker 1: is like, you know, very IROLLI right, And then this

550
00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: movie also subscribes heavily to the idea that fat equals pathetic,

551
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: that single woman equals pathetic, and that and then also

552
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: and woman who loves cats pathetic absolutely and how dare

553
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: how dare there the movie stayed at But there? Yeah,

554
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean that the way that I mean the fat

555
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: shaming elements in this movie are ex Meryl is drunk

556
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: constantly making fat shaming comments about Helen, right, and it's

557
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,720
Speaker 1: I mean, the beginning of the movie is the worst

558
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,799
Speaker 1: of it. Where you you know you. We find out

559
00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: that Bruce Willis has married Meryl Streep. Goldie Haunt is

560
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: very upset by it, and then we cut to seven

561
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:56,799
Speaker 1: years later to an exploitative up close ass shot and

562
00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,560
Speaker 1: then revealed that Goldi Han's character has gained eight and

563
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: it's implied that, yeah, like gaining weight means you've lost

564
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: control of your life. Like it's just used as this

565
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,280
Speaker 1: shorthand that is like first of all lazy, bad writing,

566
00:37:12,200 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: and second of all it just you know, hold up,

567
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: not even a little, and in the fat suit, it's

568
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 1: just all bad. Right. And then also because she's institutionalized

569
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 1: in like a psychiatric hospital, that's also well the way

570
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 1: that mentally, the way that mental illness. Yeah that like

571
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,440
Speaker 1: I mean mercifully at least those scenes are pretty quick.

572
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,720
Speaker 1: I also think that they could have just flashed forward

573
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: fourteen years like that midway, because everything that happens at

574
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 1: the seven year point is pretty offensive and also not

575
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,720
Speaker 1: super necessary to the story. Like we can flash forward

576
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: fourteen years and just be like she's still mad, right,

577
00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:58,280
Speaker 1: you don't need to do the whole scene where it's fat,

578
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:00,920
Speaker 1: shamy and just like bad on every level. And then

579
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,040
Speaker 1: you cut to the institution, which at least they don't

580
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: do that horrible thing that movies do where they name

581
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: a mental illness and explicitly stigmatize it. But the implication is,

582
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,520
Speaker 1: you know, women be crazy, and being jealous of another

583
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 1: woman is a mental illness. And then the I think

584
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: unnamed mental health professional at the which is one of

585
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: the only people of color in the entire movie. I

586
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: don't know that we I don't hear your name. I

587
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,480
Speaker 1: mean maybe she's credited with one, but I don't think.

588
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,240
Speaker 1: We definitely don't hear it. But even she's on screen

589
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: for no more than a minute and fat James Goldiehunt

590
00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:40,839
Speaker 1: in that scene and is like, you've been here six

591
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: months and you haven't lost a pound. I'm like, that's

592
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: not why people are institutionalized. So that's just a cruel

593
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 1: thing to say. So that whole first flash forward, I say,

594
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,240
Speaker 1: get rid of it. We don't need it. And then

595
00:38:56,520 --> 00:38:59,560
Speaker 1: and then when they flash forward again fourteen years Meryl

596
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: Street and this is again just like another subtle, not

597
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: so subtle way of like treating women's bodies. Is Meryl

598
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 1: Streep only takes Goldie Han seriously and will only consider

599
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: talking to her when she finds out that she is

600
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:22,319
Speaker 1: lost weight and is back to Goldie Han. And before that,

601
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: it's like she and Bruce Willis are kind of like

602
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 1: gearing up to tease her from Afar and not talk

603
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,080
Speaker 1: to her. But then when it's revealed that in another

604
00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: tasteless reveal that you know, it's Goldie Han and she's,

605
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: you know, the Western beauty standards Goldie Han and not

606
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,720
Speaker 1: the offensive fat suit Goldie Han, then all of a sudden,

607
00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:44,799
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep is willing to engage and the jealousy is back,

608
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: and it's just like just just kind of out, don't

609
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,800
Speaker 1: we don't need it, We don't need it? Yeah, absolutely,

610
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:57,920
Speaker 1: And then then they're like rivalry is ignited again, and

611
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: then we still don't know. I really don't really know why.

612
00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:07,120
Speaker 1: We only know that that Madeleine tends to steal Helen's

613
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: boyfriend's away from her, but we don't know why, we

614
00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: don't know what anyone's motivation is. And then things eventually

615
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:20,359
Speaker 1: turn around where they do become friends again because they

616
00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: both died and they now that they've both been responsible

617
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,480
Speaker 1: for the other's death. They kind of they're like, oh,

618
00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 1: this is the vague reason we were mad to the game,

619
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,160
Speaker 1: was sorry for not mentioning that earlier, and we're even

620
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 1: and yeah, we we right, and we found common ground

621
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: in both dying and being so obsessed with maintaining our

622
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: youthful looks that we need to keep this guy around

623
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: to fix us whenever we need it. But then, like

624
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,239
Speaker 1: I say, they become villains because one, they're so obsessed

625
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: with this idea of maintaining that, and then they go

626
00:41:02,920 --> 00:41:05,560
Speaker 1: so far as to try to drug him and then

627
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,960
Speaker 1: knock him out, to take him against his will to

628
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: this place and then force him to take this potion

629
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,240
Speaker 1: because they just want him. There's also like the bizarre

630
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 1: because Bruce Willis, I mean, the thing is like I

631
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 1: loved this movie, but but but we must do our job.

632
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:32,040
Speaker 1: The the bizarro message you get on masculinity and I

633
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 1: think sort of like a trophy beta male character with

634
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis in this movie is bizarre. Like I think

635
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:46,319
Speaker 1: that immediately all agency is kind of removed from him

636
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,520
Speaker 1: in a way that like completely free him of accountability

637
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,799
Speaker 1: on anything, where it's just made to seem like he's

638
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: this gullible idiot who cannot see through the sexuality of women.

639
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,760
Speaker 1: That is the thing where he you know, reassures Goldie

640
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 1: Han and it's like, there's no way I'll fall for this,

641
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,399
Speaker 1: And they almost make it seem like Meryl Streep has

642
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 1: this magical power of manipulation that immediately wins him over.

643
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,720
Speaker 1: Goldie Han tells him to his face, I don't blame

644
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,839
Speaker 1: you for that. It's her. She's evil, she does. She's

645
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: a woman, a woman from from new work, which is funny,

646
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: but but you know, like no one ever gets upset

647
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:32,200
Speaker 1: for him for things. And then he also intern and

648
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: keeping with that, blames the women in his life for

649
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,399
Speaker 1: where his life ends up. And it's like no one,

650
00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:40,960
Speaker 1: no one forced you to marry Meryl Streep, Bruce Well,

651
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: I think I'm sorry. You hate to say it, but

652
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 1: like no one forced you to And and then sort

653
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,360
Speaker 1: of the same throughout at the end where it's framed

654
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 1: like you know, these two vindictive women want to keep

655
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: this poor man at their mercy for the rest of

656
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: their eternal lives, and they want to torture him into infinity,

657
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: and it's just like it's so over the top, and

658
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 1: brist Will has literally kills Meryl Street. But he's like

659
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: she told me to, like he's actually like he never

660
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: has a choice in anything, and it's just so like,

661
00:43:15,000 --> 00:43:17,360
Speaker 1: I mean, I loved I love to watch it, but

662
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 1: it does it does give you a weird comment on

663
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:25,280
Speaker 1: masculinity that, like every man that's ever lived is completely

664
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:31,200
Speaker 1: has to go with the like wiles of women. They

665
00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 1: don't understand, they can't control it. They do, they commit murder.

666
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 1: It's not their fault. Also, there's that scene where Goldie Han,

667
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 1: dressed as Jessica Rabbit fully goes up at his house

668
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: and she's like, I used to be so timid and

669
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't even say the word sex, but now I

670
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 1: can say it sex, sex, and he's like, boo, it's

671
00:43:56,120 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: kind of funny. But but like, yeah, well, my thing

672
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 1: with that character with Earnest is that I feel that

673
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:10,280
Speaker 1: he has written the way a lot of women are written,

674
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: or should I say underwritten in many movies, because he's

675
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: often hysterical, he's screaming, he is gullible. Um in the

676
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: relationships that he's in with these two women, he is

677
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: has far less kind of power and control than the

678
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:33,040
Speaker 1: two women. He at least starts out pretty much as

679
00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 1: like being the supporting character um to these women in

680
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,200
Speaker 1: the story. So like, but then like by the end,

681
00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: he is framed as like being this hero and they're

682
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: at his funeral and they're like, oh man, his life

683
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: got so awesome when he turned fifty and he's a

684
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: saint and he started the Menville Center for the Study

685
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 1: of Women because I guess feminine ist icon Earnest Menville

686
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 1: like probably not. I'm like that was I thought that

687
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 1: was like kind of a fun Like I don't know.

688
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 1: I was like, well, aging worked out for someone, because well,

689
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:17,040
Speaker 1: that's the thing. Maybe it's the movie trying to comment

690
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:19,360
Speaker 1: but again I don't think it does it effectively. But

691
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: it's like men are allowed to age gracefully and with dignity,

692
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: and like, look, how awesome everyone thinks he is. Maybe

693
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,040
Speaker 1: if you just hung in their ladies and not gotten

694
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: so upset. Right, But and then by contrast, we see

695
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:36,400
Speaker 1: like the two women they are literally like chipping away,

696
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: falling apart. They look grotesque because they're paint running off

697
00:45:41,120 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: of their faces. So it's like, is that commentary? But

698
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:49,840
Speaker 1: I feel like and we are, we're on their side,

699
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: But I just it feels like a hollow message and

700
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:59,439
Speaker 1: movies trying to say one thing. Well, something I did

701
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 1: like is that I feel like we talked about this

702
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 1: when we're watching it too, that Meryl Streep's character in

703
00:46:06,560 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: this movie kind of reminds me of Goldie Hans character

704
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: in First Wives Club, where these are both characters who

705
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 1: are in the entertainment industry. Meryl Streep is some sort

706
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,719
Speaker 1: of like a star of the stage in screen right,

707
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: who is afraid of not being able to work in

708
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: the way she would like to if she appears older, right, um,

709
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:33,279
Speaker 1: which is similar to Goldie Han in First And I

710
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: appreciate at very least that I think that often, like

711
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,879
Speaker 1: a woman's anxiety about aging is made out to see

712
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:48,719
Speaker 1: hysterical or pathetic. And while it is definitely exaggerated in

713
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 1: this movie, they at very least the writing does go

714
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:53,799
Speaker 1: out of its way to couch it in like and

715
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,600
Speaker 1: this is not something that she is completely, you know,

716
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: like removed from reality to be worried about, because we

717
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 1: see that scene where she goes to her young side

718
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,200
Speaker 1: pieces house and he is with a younger woman and

719
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 1: he rejects her and you know, insults her and says,

720
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,279
Speaker 1: you know, go date someone your own age, and that

721
00:47:13,600 --> 00:47:16,600
Speaker 1: is a breaking point for her. And so I think

722
00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: that it was that was one of for me, the

723
00:47:19,760 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 1: more genuine moments of like actual commentary on aging. Of like, yes,

724
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:30,440
Speaker 1: it does seem on the surface like Meryl Streep is.

725
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 1: You know, she's seen with face masks on all the time.

726
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: It's made out to be over the top, but then

727
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:38,479
Speaker 1: you do get the inverse of it of like she's

728
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: not doing it for no reason. She's it there is

729
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:45,880
Speaker 1: like it is her reality, and so I did appreciate

730
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 1: that we we at least get to see that so

731
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: that she isn't made out to be like the crazy

732
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: lady tramp. Yeah, I agree that scene where she goes

733
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,319
Speaker 1: to that guy and he says, like, find a guy

734
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: your own age. I'm doing you a favorite. People say

735
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: we look ridiculous together, which is like the movie attempting,

736
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 1: I think, to comment on the double standard of society

737
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: deeming it perfectly acceptable for an older man to be

738
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: with a younger woman but not acceptable for an older

739
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,240
Speaker 1: woman to be with a younger man. So the movie

740
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: does like start to make this commentary. It is like

741
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: it is, it just doesn't get all the way there, right.

742
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,839
Speaker 1: It's almost like you know, mail writers and directors that

743
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 1: are trying to put women on which is great use

744
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,320
Speaker 1: your power responsibly, but also talk to them. See what

745
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:38,480
Speaker 1: they think, See if they think you're being stupid. Uh,

746
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,359
Speaker 1: you know, let's just bring it ari aster back into

747
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,720
Speaker 1: the conversation while we're at it, of just like, yeah,

748
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: we get it, Like you want to make movie as well.

749
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:48,919
Speaker 1: Women try to have a conversation with one. Um. Yeah,

750
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 1: there are like those moments where you're like, oh, this

751
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: the heart was in the right place, but it just

752
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: rings hollow because there's not really any authenticity in it.

753
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: And I feel like it's like what makes a great

754
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: campy movie is like reactions and characters that are over

755
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:05,240
Speaker 1: the top of you understand why they're doing what they're doing,

756
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:10,000
Speaker 1: and so you can justify almost anything behavior wise. Of like,

757
00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: if I had a better understanding, a rooted reason that

758
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 1: Meryl Streep and Goldiehan fucking hate each other, then they

759
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:21,040
Speaker 1: could hit each other with shovels all day and I

760
00:49:21,080 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: wouldn't care, because it's like you there, there's a grounded

761
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 1: reason and you're not just doing it to do it,

762
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: but you know it. It's just sometimes it feels that way,

763
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:33,879
Speaker 1: other times it doesn't. Yeah, I agree, Um, we need

764
00:49:33,880 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 1: to take another quick break, but then we will come

765
00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: right back and we're back. Can I share my two

766
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: favorite lines in the movie, both said by Bruce Willis

767
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:55,240
Speaker 1: because his character just tickles me. Pink hit it baby.

768
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: He sees like yelling at like a staff member in

769
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,520
Speaker 1: the hospital after he's taken Madeline to the e R

770
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:04,680
Speaker 1: and he's like, you put her in the morgue, shall

771
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:08,959
Speaker 1: be furious. And then a little bit later, whenever they're

772
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: trying to deal with what they think is Helen's dead body,

773
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: Bruce Willis says, are you just gonna sit there? I'm

774
00:50:17,600 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: not going to be your accomplice all by myself, which

775
00:50:20,239 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: is comedy at its the peak, so funny. Loved it, Okay,

776
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,959
Speaker 1: it was fun fun. I mean this movie, I think

777
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:33,439
Speaker 1: kind of keeping true to it's hard in the right place,

778
00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 1: but a lot of you know, kind of classically negative

779
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: stereotypes being given in. I mean, there's a lot of

780
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: needlessly like overly revealing out but it's kind of for

781
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: no reason. I'm almost willing to justify it within the

782
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: aesthetic of the movie or it is a cartoon. But

783
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,359
Speaker 1: there's like that scene where Meryl Stape and Goldie Hunter

784
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,719
Speaker 1: following Bruce Willis around in like Leo tarts for no

785
00:50:56,880 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: reason and you're just like, Okay. This is also one

786
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,879
Speaker 1: of the few movies where the two female leads are

787
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: older than the male love interest. Rail Streep and Goldi

788
00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:11,240
Speaker 1: Hunter both older than Bruce Willis, so that very rarely happens.

789
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: You know. It's like Leonardo DiCaprio will not appear on

790
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:15,680
Speaker 1: screen with a woman over the age of twenty four.

791
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,560
Speaker 1: So there's you know that I thought that was cool.

792
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:22,680
Speaker 1: Oh that was getting into the Isabella Risselini right, because

793
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: she she is. I mean, the costumes are incredible, I

794
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 1: mean iconic. They are architecture basically. They the looks her

795
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: shirt is just several necklaces. But it's also you're like,

796
00:51:37,200 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 1: I think that there's flesh colored fabric involved. I'm not

797
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,439
Speaker 1: going must because we didn't see any nips. I don't

798
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: believe there was art. Yeah, because it was PG. Thirteen,

799
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:48,799
Speaker 1: so the architect I mean it was wild, but but like,

800
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:52,240
Speaker 1: sure there were shots where you saw her bare ass

801
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,680
Speaker 1: for no reason. Was it gratuitous? Yeah? But I also

802
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: was like, I wish I could wear that, you know,

803
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:01,840
Speaker 1: but there I mean, and there's did you have I

804
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: don't have much to say about Lisel's character because she

805
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 1: is kind of something that I think is something that

806
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 1: we have slowly realized is a bizarre trope that appears

807
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 1: again again. Is she's a plot, which right, she's were

808
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: compared which we compared her to Ursula. Yeah, she is.

809
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,919
Speaker 1: She's literally a ploted She's like, I have a deal

810
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: for you. I'm wearing an outfit and you're like a right, okay, sure, yeah.

811
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: I mean then we also, I don't know totally how

812
00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: much this is worth mentioning, but we as we were

813
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: watching it, we were like, she's like appropriating ancient Egyptian

814
00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: culture with like sound off in the comments. We truly

815
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:46,920
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I don't know if there's if what

816
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,440
Speaker 1: we don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of there's a

817
00:52:50,480 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 1: lot of it we don't know. We don't know, so

818
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 1: you know, that's something for for if you have any

819
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: information on it. We would love to have a more

820
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:02,200
Speaker 1: cogent discuss and about it, but at this time we

821
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:06,120
Speaker 1: simply don't know. Um, but yeah, that's Lesal. There's really

822
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,160
Speaker 1: not I mean, yeah, there was like some gratuitous nuded,

823
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,200
Speaker 1: I mean almost exclusively gratuitous nudi. There she's a plot

824
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,400
Speaker 1: which but we do have two female protagonists to bounce

825
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: it off. I mean, like, if if she was one

826
00:53:18,120 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 1: of the only women that you saw on screen at length,

827
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: I would be way more bothered that she also has

828
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:30,839
Speaker 1: like several male servants Fabia's, Fabio's. They're one of them.

829
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 1: Is Actually their names are Tom, Dick and Harry, and

830
00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:38,200
Speaker 1: they are pretty nude. I mean they're topless, they're wearing

831
00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,640
Speaker 1: they're not pretty revealing clothing. So I thought that was

832
00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:45,440
Speaker 1: you know what if that's an empowering thing for it's

833
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: just about rules you can't wear a lot of She's rich. Also,

834
00:53:49,160 --> 00:53:52,320
Speaker 1: she's a businesswoman. I think there's a case she's a

835
00:53:52,360 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: woman in she's seventies some years old, she said, which

836
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:02,640
Speaker 1: is I mean, it is another one of those I mean,

837
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,480
Speaker 1: and again this movie is not thinking too hard about it,

838
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: I'm certain, but you know, like a female scientist can

839
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,400
Speaker 1: only be a witch kind of thing. But also she

840
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:14,719
Speaker 1: has at least some business life outside of it. I

841
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 1: don't have that much to say about this character. And

842
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 1: then there's also the thing of like it's a movie

843
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,840
Speaker 1: about women aging and like not being allowed to age

844
00:54:23,960 --> 00:54:27,600
Speaker 1: gracefully in society, not allowing that, but then it's also

845
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:34,839
Speaker 1: casting three women who are very attractive by Western beauty standards,

846
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: and it's like great, right for you? Yeah, I don't know.

847
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: I mean it is an interesting Again, It's just like,

848
00:54:44,760 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: so much of this movie would pull together more for

849
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,719
Speaker 1: me if we had a more grounded story and why

850
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,600
Speaker 1: they dislike each other, because as it stands, it just

851
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:55,879
Speaker 1: makes some really cool, interesting scenes and choices kind of

852
00:54:56,239 --> 00:55:01,680
Speaker 1: feel less impactful and cool. But uh, and ultimately, it

853
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,520
Speaker 1: is the women who suffer for what is presented at

854
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: the beginning as a societal ill, and yet it is

855
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:11,160
Speaker 1: still all these two women who have to suffer the

856
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: eternal consequences of it, and we're punished for it, which

857
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:17,680
Speaker 1: is a weird message to leave it off. Um. I

858
00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:21,360
Speaker 1: wanted to do a quick little context moment for um

859
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 1: this movies. Um, So I was just so thrown off

860
00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:31,240
Speaker 1: by you calling it a context moment corner Jamie's context corner. Uh.

861
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:36,760
Speaker 1: This movie has a massive queer following. I wasn't aware

862
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:39,640
Speaker 1: of the extent of the queer legacy of this movie,

863
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:42,759
Speaker 1: but there was a terrific piece that came out in

864
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: Vanity Fair on this exact topic, with extensive reporting that

865
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 1: came out two years ago. It was written by Christie Pouchko,

866
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,200
Speaker 1: So thank you for doing all this. Um it gives

867
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,040
Speaker 1: a little bit of background on the production of the

868
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:00,200
Speaker 1: movie as well as how it is gained a you're

869
00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: following over time because this movie wasn't super successful when

870
00:56:03,160 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: it came out, and it also was not well reviewed.

871
00:56:05,920 --> 00:56:09,719
Speaker 1: Um it just broke its budget domestically and then ended

872
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,320
Speaker 1: up making some money internationally, but it definitely wasn't considered

873
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 1: anyone's best. It wasn't nominated for anything except visual effects.

874
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: A lot of the interviews are a lot of the

875
00:56:19,560 --> 00:56:23,239
Speaker 1: pole quotes are from David cup kick ko E p

876
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,120
Speaker 1: p is it kept kept Let's he he gave some

877
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 1: insight into what they were going for. He says, quote

878
00:56:30,760 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 1: it was meant to be Knight of the Living Dead

879
00:56:32,760 --> 00:56:34,880
Speaker 1: if George q Core had directed it, which I think

880
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: is kind of a fun reference. It felt like no

881
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:40,080
Speaker 1: risk whatsoever because we both had nothing but credit card

882
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: debt to our names. There was nowhere to go but up.

883
00:56:43,040 --> 00:56:46,799
Speaker 1: So this was this was basically written to be and

884
00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: the original casting choices kind of revealed that it was

885
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,320
Speaker 1: written to be a B movie. And then because Robert

886
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:56,120
Speaker 1: Zemeckis had a lot of clout and wanted to direct

887
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 1: the movie. All of a sudden it was elevated to

888
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: a big budget level. Well so there, which I feel

889
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 1: like you can kind of in a good way, feel

890
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: that dissonance of like, why is Bruce Willis in this movie?

891
00:57:07,440 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: Why would like the this movie could have been made

892
00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:11,799
Speaker 1: for a lot less money, But I'm kind of glad

893
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:14,719
Speaker 1: it wasn't, you know, like they it looks like it

894
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:18,040
Speaker 1: cost fifty five million dollars um. But what this has

895
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:22,000
Speaker 1: inspired a lot of In addition to the movie being

896
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 1: screened at Pride events quite a bit, um is there

897
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: have been a lot of like iconic drag performances inspired

898
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 1: by Death Becomes Her to the point where it was

899
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:36,920
Speaker 1: a specific runway challenge on RuPaul's drag race at some

900
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:43,160
Speaker 1: point um where Violet cho key one um for the

901
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:46,440
Speaker 1: most intensely since waste I've ever seen in my entire life.

902
00:57:46,560 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: You can look it up. It was so good. Later

903
00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: in the article, David kepp Is asked why I think

904
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:55,440
Speaker 1: this is a very fun question to ask him because

905
00:57:55,480 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: old men are so doofy sometimes. They asked him, why

906
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 1: do you think this movie has a mass such a

907
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,920
Speaker 1: big queer following, and he has this to say, quote,

908
00:58:05,160 --> 00:58:08,440
Speaker 1: you really can't underestimate the entertainment value of two women

909
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: swinging shovels at each other, uh, and then the other

910
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:15,760
Speaker 1: the other all he said yes, and then his coat,

911
00:58:16,080 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 1: and then his co writer says quote, I could invent

912
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:21,040
Speaker 1: some excuse, but deep down in my heart, I do

913
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:26,000
Speaker 1: not know. So, I mean it's like they're I mean,

914
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,360
Speaker 1: they're just like kind of like, we've never talked to

915
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:32,400
Speaker 1: a gay person, so right, so they're like, I guess

916
00:58:32,440 --> 00:58:36,800
Speaker 1: it worked out for us. Um the winner of drag

917
00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 1: Ray Sieves In five, jerk Hoffer had that's Jinx Monsoon,

918
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,360
Speaker 1: Yes one under Jinx Monsoon. But interviewed did this interview

919
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:49,520
Speaker 1: under Jack Hoffer took on like the Death Becomes Her

920
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:53,440
Speaker 1: themed photo shoot like has a history drain. Here's what

921
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,320
Speaker 1: Jack has to say, quote, I think this is a

922
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:59,120
Speaker 1: trait that runs throughout the queer community, the obsession with

923
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,120
Speaker 1: the hyper femine and female villains. And we see it

924
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:04,360
Speaker 1: in Disney movies and in movies like Death Becomes Her

925
00:59:04,480 --> 00:59:07,480
Speaker 1: and in characters like Poison Ivy and Catwoman. Almost all

926
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: the Disney villain which is are gay icons, which is

927
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:13,920
Speaker 1: I mean, we've discussed at length here and they continue,

928
00:59:14,120 --> 00:59:16,360
Speaker 1: uh quote. I think it's a combination of it being

929
00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:19,600
Speaker 1: a strong female character, who who you love, how evil

930
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,360
Speaker 1: she is. You know. I don't know why that is

931
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,640
Speaker 1: a trait that appears to queer people so much, but

932
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty consistent amongst the queer community. I think it

933
00:59:28,080 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: has something to do is feeling like outcasts and imagining

934
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 1: yourself in this position of power where even though you're

935
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 1: the outcast, you still have some kind of power and

936
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:40,600
Speaker 1: strength within you. So yeah, and then finally, quote, I

937
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: think it's really feminist that they're willing to take their

938
00:59:42,880 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 1: lives into their own hands and do whatever it takes,

939
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: be willing to spray paint themselves and fill themselves with

940
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: cement or whatever to just uphold themselves and try to

941
00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: stay in command. So there you go. That is, in brief,

942
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 1: the History of Death becomes her as a iconic queer

943
01:00:00,840 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: movie as well. Ye, beautiful, thanks for the context corner.

944
01:00:05,040 --> 01:00:07,640
Speaker 1: You're welcome. Yeah, I'm glad. I mean we talked about

945
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 1: this a fair amount to where certain movies have become

946
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:17,200
Speaker 1: like queer icon texts, not because there are any queer

947
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 1: characters in them, because there are often not in most

948
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 1: mainstream movies. Yeah, even in like It's it's just it's

949
01:00:25,800 --> 01:00:29,760
Speaker 1: it's cool to understand the history of how movies become

950
01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:33,520
Speaker 1: iconic in any community. Like it's cool. And I knew

951
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,200
Speaker 1: so little about this movie to begin with that, like

952
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:39,560
Speaker 1: having context for that drag race competition was great for me. Yeah,

953
01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:41,360
Speaker 1: it was great because I had watched it before and

954
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:44,560
Speaker 1: been like, what is that? I don't know? And now

955
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: I know, I understand. You know, I'm learning. Um do

956
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,720
Speaker 1: anything else you want to hit on? Just the Helen

957
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:56,480
Speaker 1: Sharp first has a cat and then has many cats,

958
01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 1: and cats have eight nipples. That's facts with Caitlin. Yeah,

959
01:01:03,040 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: I think that's about it. Though. Yeah, I enjoyed this

960
01:01:06,240 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: movie quite a bit. I'm happy it will be continued

961
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:12,680
Speaker 1: to watch for years to come. I think it is

962
01:01:12,720 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: the kind of movie that even though it's flaws I

963
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,720
Speaker 1: think are pretty glaring, I find them so glaring that

964
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: it is almost like people can continue to watch it.

965
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: Does that make sense? Yeah, where it's not like a

966
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:30,400
Speaker 1: subtle poison being put into like the veins of a

967
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:34,040
Speaker 1: movie where you're like, oh no, I'm red pilt, you know,

968
01:01:34,120 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: like it is so it is so wildly campy that

969
01:01:37,560 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: it's not like very very small doses of arsenic that

970
01:01:40,880 --> 01:01:43,120
Speaker 1: you take over the course of several months and then

971
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,080
Speaker 1: die from it. It's like the poison apple with like

972
01:01:47,280 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 1: the poison symbol painted onto the apple and try this

973
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:57,320
Speaker 1: is fun. They're perfect analogy. Yeah, I mean, just a

974
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:02,240
Speaker 1: movie trying to tackle the subject of like women aging

975
01:02:02,320 --> 01:02:05,920
Speaker 1: and how society believes that that's not a thing that

976
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:09,760
Speaker 1: should be allowed at all, you know, and and approaching

977
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:13,040
Speaker 1: that topic in a very way, and that it only

978
01:02:13,080 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: tackles it in the context of upper class, straight white women. Um.

979
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: But in terms of the time, I mean, there's not

980
01:02:21,440 --> 01:02:25,160
Speaker 1: a lot of movies in that are trying to address

981
01:02:25,200 --> 01:02:27,920
Speaker 1: the concept of women aging at all. It's the horror

982
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:30,960
Speaker 1: of women at all, of women so right, and and

983
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: so I think in that it has a valuable place

984
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:37,160
Speaker 1: in history in addition to being a fun watch with

985
01:02:37,240 --> 01:02:44,360
Speaker 1: some really incredible how the performances performances, But it is

986
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: the the outfits in this movie are really Next, let

987
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: me say my one last piece. I think maybe and

988
01:02:53,520 --> 01:02:56,560
Speaker 1: this doesn't justify this at all, but perhaps the reason

989
01:02:57,240 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 1: that we cut to the seven years or where we

990
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:04,920
Speaker 1: see Goldie Han like completely in crisis and like mentally

991
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:08,400
Speaker 1: crumbling and all of that. Is that that's when she

992
01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,200
Speaker 1: we don't see her do this, of course, because it

993
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: has to be a reveal later on, but that's when

994
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,840
Speaker 1: we understand her to take the potion because she says

995
01:03:17,920 --> 01:03:23,400
Speaker 1: she takes it October. That would be seven years after

996
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:31,560
Speaker 1: when the movie opens in about October. That is the

997
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:36,640
Speaker 1: day of the temporal junction point of the space time continuum.

998
01:03:36,680 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: According to Back to the Future, another Robert zemeckis Galaxy Brain,

999
01:03:42,680 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: so we needs actually exist in the same universe Galaxy Brain.

1000
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,760
Speaker 1: I love it. It makes me happy. I didn't understand

1001
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,720
Speaker 1: And you know, we did cover Back to the Future

1002
01:03:57,720 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: on the Matreon as well. It did not fare well,

1003
01:04:01,240 --> 01:04:04,600
Speaker 1: but it's still a movie I deeply, deeply love. So

1004
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:09,240
Speaker 1: that's my cross to bear. Yeah, fortunately it isn't mine. Um,

1005
01:04:09,320 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 1: But I do like a good Billy Zane joint, which

1006
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:13,520
Speaker 1: I think is how Back to the Future is remembered

1007
01:04:14,800 --> 01:04:20,320
Speaker 1: um as one of best perfermances. But yeah, I mean,

1008
01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 1: I yeah, this this I would genuinely like recommend watch

1009
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,720
Speaker 1: this movie with your friends. It's a blast. I'm sure

1010
01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: there's a great drinking game for this movie somewhere. Um,

1011
01:04:30,240 --> 01:04:32,840
Speaker 1: But you know that's why we're here to just you know,

1012
01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:35,640
Speaker 1: keep you humble. But you know, hey, it's not as

1013
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 1: good as you think it is, but it's still pretty good.

1014
01:04:38,800 --> 01:04:41,880
Speaker 1: That's our job. Does this movie pass the Bectel test?

1015
01:04:41,920 --> 01:04:46,320
Speaker 1: It does? It does. Between Madeline and Helen, Between Madeline

1016
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: and Liesl. There's a few other conversations with a very

1017
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 1: tertiary female characters who don't get named, that don't pass

1018
01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: the Bectel test. But there are women interacting, and there

1019
01:04:57,360 --> 01:04:59,680
Speaker 1: is a lot of talk about, like I feel like,

1020
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:04,040
Speaker 1: even slightly edging out the Bruce Willis talk. There is

1021
01:05:04,080 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 1: a lot of talk about jealousy and fractures within the friendship. Um.

1022
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:12,960
Speaker 1: And often men will come up because the conflict between

1023
01:05:13,000 --> 01:05:15,720
Speaker 1: them is underwritten. But you do they do like that

1024
01:05:15,840 --> 01:05:19,800
Speaker 1: some of the dialogue is like left for us to

1025
01:05:19,880 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 1: kind of explore this conflict, although it comes away too

1026
01:05:22,160 --> 01:05:25,520
Speaker 1: late in the movie. But yeah, so you know it

1027
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:29,240
Speaker 1: does pass. Sure. Does What would you rate the film?

1028
01:05:30,680 --> 01:05:37,320
Speaker 1: Probably pretty low? Um? I mean, here's okay, I was

1029
01:05:37,360 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: gonna say this earlier. For all of its faults, all

1030
01:05:41,640 --> 01:05:44,280
Speaker 1: of the action in this movie is driven by the

1031
01:05:44,320 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 1: female characters. Bruce Willis has, like you were saying, is

1032
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:52,680
Speaker 1: reduced to no agency like female characters often are. He

1033
01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: becomes kind of this flaccid tool weapon, screaming, squealing, hysterical

1034
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,360
Speaker 1: to be used by the two female here to. So

1035
01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: in that way, I think it is very unusual and

1036
01:06:03,080 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 1: cool women are. But then he is given agency like

1037
01:06:06,600 --> 01:06:09,120
Speaker 1: the climax, and it's almost like he was climax and

1038
01:06:09,160 --> 01:06:12,080
Speaker 1: then he's yeah, exactly, I have to. I don't like

1039
01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 1: the way this movie ends. One and a half, one

1040
01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 1: and a half maybe two. I was gonna give it

1041
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:20,520
Speaker 1: to Okay, I'll go to nip for each of them.

1042
01:06:20,560 --> 01:06:23,280
Speaker 1: This gets a five million on the Campo meter, but

1043
01:06:23,400 --> 01:06:26,120
Speaker 1: that's not what we're here for. Uh. In terms of

1044
01:06:26,160 --> 01:06:30,960
Speaker 1: maybe we should do that podcast Ika, Yeah, new Patreon

1045
01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:35,880
Speaker 1: tier strictly discussing camp the Campo meter, but this is

1046
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:40,800
Speaker 1: like Campo meter a plus. But in terms of how

1047
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,760
Speaker 1: the movie treat this family characters, I would say about

1048
01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: two because they do lose in the end, which doesn't

1049
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 1: they're punished for, you know, wanting to And that's the

1050
01:06:50,080 --> 01:06:55,320
Speaker 1: other thing, Like, yes, society has these rigid expectations about

1051
01:06:55,320 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 1: women and women aging. Women will also be criticized. We're

1052
01:07:00,200 --> 01:07:05,320
Speaker 1: trying to like participate in like I'm going to try

1053
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,640
Speaker 1: to not look like I'm aging so much kind of thing,

1054
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:10,960
Speaker 1: and then women are also punished for that. Well, it's

1055
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:13,360
Speaker 1: just like, well, what can't you just like age naturally?

1056
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:16,320
Speaker 1: And it's like, because you fucking won't let me take society.

1057
01:07:16,640 --> 01:07:19,760
Speaker 1: Well the Yeah, I feel like the movie like at

1058
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,240
Speaker 1: some points it reaches like, oh, it looks like it's

1059
01:07:22,240 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: about to make a really cool point, and then it

1060
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,480
Speaker 1: punishes the female character were making the choice that they've explained,

1061
01:07:27,480 --> 01:07:29,560
Speaker 1: it made it clear why they're making that choice, and

1062
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:31,960
Speaker 1: then they're like, well, whatever funk are anyways, and you're

1063
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:34,960
Speaker 1: just like that's not fair. My ideal ending for this

1064
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:38,440
Speaker 1: movie is that once they become friends again, they discuss, okay,

1065
01:07:38,480 --> 01:07:41,960
Speaker 1: this was our conflict, we both killed each other, we're even. Then,

1066
01:07:42,000 --> 01:07:45,080
Speaker 1: instead of going after Bruce Willis, they like find a

1067
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: more like a large, like societal target, and like, instead

1068
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: of going after this one person that they've been using

1069
01:07:53,520 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: as a tool this whole time, go after someone who

1070
01:07:56,120 --> 01:08:00,160
Speaker 1: has actually inflicted harm upon them and go after that. Like,

1071
01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,840
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a more logical target, especially if

1072
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,840
Speaker 1: you get that cool moment of them uniting, right, it's like,

1073
01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:09,320
Speaker 1: why would you go out to Bruce Willis? Right? I

1074
01:08:09,360 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 1: do like when they come together and form this like

1075
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:15,960
Speaker 1: friendship again. But yeah, the third act of this movie

1076
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:18,280
Speaker 1: is a mess, and they should there should be like

1077
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 1: maybe like a movie director who's like, I'm not going

1078
01:08:20,760 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: to cast you anymore, Mary because you've gotten too old,

1079
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:25,880
Speaker 1: or even just like someone who's set up a little

1080
01:08:25,920 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 1: bit earlier of someone who has done actual harm or

1081
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 1: encouraged conflict among them or something like that, where because

1082
01:08:33,360 --> 01:08:35,679
Speaker 1: going for Bruce Willis it doesn't make a ton of sense,

1083
01:08:35,720 --> 01:08:37,360
Speaker 1: and then he ends up winning and you're just like

1084
01:08:37,400 --> 01:08:40,320
Speaker 1: I don't like that either, Like there was a cooler

1085
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:43,759
Speaker 1: in trajectory for them, and they should have one because

1086
01:08:43,800 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 1: we're woting for them. Should have had us write the

1087
01:08:46,320 --> 01:08:49,559
Speaker 1: movie really like I know that we barely existed at

1088
01:08:49,560 --> 01:08:51,920
Speaker 1: this time that they should have led us. Yeah, you

1089
01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:55,519
Speaker 1: were a fetus, maybe a fetis and I was six

1090
01:08:55,600 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: years old in the first grade. I think that that's

1091
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 1: an amazing that's a really cool progressive strandwriting team is

1092
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,200
Speaker 1: and we would have been able to comment on aging

1093
01:09:05,240 --> 01:09:08,760
Speaker 1: women as a fetus and a six year old, So

1094
01:09:10,000 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 1: there are the better choice than two men. Isn't that

1095
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:16,280
Speaker 1: insane someone who hasn't been born as a better choice,

1096
01:09:16,360 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 1: But it is true in the in this case of yeah,

1097
01:09:20,880 --> 01:09:24,639
Speaker 1: it's just it's good intentions. But I feel like, you know,

1098
01:09:25,120 --> 01:09:29,560
Speaker 1: with the benefit of time, we now understand that, um,

1099
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 1: two men are very rarely going to write a realistic,

1100
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:37,960
Speaker 1: compelling relationship between two women, whether it's like gritty realism

1101
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:40,800
Speaker 1: or camp. It just you just you just need someone

1102
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:44,720
Speaker 1: in the room. So two nippies kicking one each of

1103
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:47,200
Speaker 1: them same, I'll do the same. Yea. Now they both

1104
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 1: got a full second for them. Congratulations Isabella, you're out

1105
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:57,960
Speaker 1: of luck. And folks, that was the Death Becomes Her episode.

1106
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:02,960
Speaker 1: Thanks for tuning in, and we just wanted to remind

1107
01:10:03,000 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 1: you that was an unlocked Matreon episode. If you want

1108
01:10:06,200 --> 01:10:09,400
Speaker 1: seventy plus more episodes like that, they're all over at

1109
01:10:09,439 --> 01:10:13,479
Speaker 1: Patreon dot com, slash the Bechtel Cast, slash Bechtel Cast.

1110
01:10:13,640 --> 01:10:18,200
Speaker 1: Sorry my brain is putting um Patreon dot com slash

1111
01:10:18,240 --> 01:10:21,120
Speaker 1: Bechtel Cast. You will get two extra episodes a month

1112
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:25,559
Speaker 1: and a Titanic bonus dream for September, one of many

1113
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:30,520
Speaker 1: Titanic bonuses on the Matreon because we also have a

1114
01:10:30,560 --> 01:10:34,800
Speaker 1: three hour and fourteen minutes commentary track in which we

1115
01:10:34,880 --> 01:10:37,920
Speaker 1: watched Titanic and commented on it. We have one where

1116
01:10:37,920 --> 01:10:41,800
Speaker 1: we're drunk on Thanksgiving watching Titanic a couple of years ago.

1117
01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:44,880
Speaker 1: That's a fun one, and then we have another one

1118
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:47,360
Speaker 1: that I don't remember why we I think that one

1119
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:49,479
Speaker 1: was just everything we didn't cover in the first one.

1120
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: The second that the follow up aisode was pretty comprehensive

1121
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:56,559
Speaker 1: of like everything we've learned about Titanic since our first

1122
01:10:56,640 --> 01:11:00,080
Speaker 1: episode with a parliament nantrella, which is on this and

1123
01:11:00,920 --> 01:11:05,360
Speaker 1: it's dense. Papers could be written, Please don't write them. Well,

1124
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: here's the thing. I want to do another Titanic episode, obviously,

1125
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: because I've completely come around on a bunch of things,

1126
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:19,160
Speaker 1: even since the last time we recorded. Okay, I'm I'm

1127
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 1: fully down. Yeah, Team Fabritt CEO, That's what I'm that's

1128
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:26,120
Speaker 1: my news stance. Also, this this is our first This

1129
01:11:26,200 --> 01:11:29,559
Speaker 1: is our first time doing Titanic since we realized the

1130
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:33,960
Speaker 1: whole DiCaprio fully closed underwater, which really changes your read

1131
01:11:34,040 --> 01:11:36,920
Speaker 1: of the entire movie. You we have to look at

1132
01:11:36,920 --> 01:11:41,000
Speaker 1: it from an entirely New lens Now cinematic language is

1133
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: so dense. Uh oh my, you can just I mean,

1134
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:49,160
Speaker 1: we'll listen to this episode in the future and be like, wow,

1135
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:54,160
Speaker 1: the air quality was just not good. Uh the We're like, no,

1136
01:11:54,640 --> 01:12:00,400
Speaker 1: it's the thematic implications of Leonardo DiCaprio being underwater while

1137
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:07,040
Speaker 1: he's wearing clothes. It means something everythang. Uh, we love you.

1138
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:10,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for bearing with us. Also remember to um

1139
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: check out our Titanic or no our our Twilight live stream.

1140
01:12:17,040 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 1: Our Twilight live stream is next Friday. Jacob benefiting Fatima

1141
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,800
Speaker 1: eball zoo fair Um, she is the best. Will be

1142
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,200
Speaker 1: posting about it NonStop. We can't wait. And if you

1143
01:12:28,200 --> 01:12:30,719
Speaker 1: want to get merch, that's over t public dot com

1144
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,839
Speaker 1: slash the beck Doel Cast. Follow us on social media

1145
01:12:34,960 --> 01:12:39,280
Speaker 1: at your leisure at becktel Cast, especially because we're going

1146
01:12:39,320 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: to be um posting all the information about the Twilight

1147
01:12:43,120 --> 01:12:48,080
Speaker 1: live read slash roast on our social media platform. We're

1148
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:50,240
Speaker 1: gonna be real annoying about it. You're not going to

1149
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 1: miss it. Uh, so we hope to see you at

1150
01:12:55,040 --> 01:13:00,120
Speaker 1: the Twilight hang and nothing into the episode, right, I

1151
01:13:00,160 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 1: think so we didn't we didn't cut it down uh

1152
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: bye right bye bye