1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: Last year, a recent graduate from one of Japan's top 3 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: universities was weighing job offers from a few international banks. 4 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,919 Speaker 2: One offer was from a Wall Street firm, which he 5 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 2: decided to pass on. 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: He had turned down the offer on the phone, but 7 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: then they called him and asked him to come in 8 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: for a meeting. So he showed up and was greeted 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: in a room by three managing directors. 10 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 2: Bloomberg's Lisa du covers finance and Investing out of Tokyo. 11 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 2: She says the young man's story caught her eye in 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 2: part because of what happened next. The managing directors kept 13 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:47,879 Speaker 2: him inside the room and gave their young candidate the 14 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: hard sell. 15 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 1: They basically spent two hours trying to convince him to 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: change his mind and take that offer, and at one point, 17 00:00:57,040 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, telling him, don't take this company lightly, just 18 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: don't mess with us. You should take this offer, and 19 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: just like really given a lot of pressure, wow, to 20 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 1: take this job. 21 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,759 Speaker 2: The man told Lisa that when the directors finally let 22 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 2: him go, he was exhausted and a little traumatized, and 23 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 2: even more confident that he'd made the right choice by 24 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: not taking the job. It sounds like a crazy story, 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: but Lisa says these hardball recruitment tactics aren't unusual in 26 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 2: Japan right now. 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: We did hear several instances where young candidates were either 28 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: forced to stay in a room for hours or were 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: just heavily courted by being taken to really fancy restaurants 30 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: in private rooms. 31 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: That's because right now Japan has one of the world's 32 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: tightest labor markets. In many ways, it's the opposite of 33 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: what's happening in the rest of the financial world. Bankers 34 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 2: from Hong Kong to London have been hit by pay 35 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: cuts and layoff as the global economy contracts, But in 36 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 2: Japan there's a hiring boom. 37 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: So I think several factors are coming together at the 38 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: same time to create this perfect storm. The Japanese market 39 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: is interesting again because inflation is back, money is very 40 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: easy to borrow. There's a week end leading now to 41 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 1: a surge in trading for Japanese growing bonds, Japanese stocks, 42 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: and also a burst in foreign investment. And this is 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: coming after years of you know, Japan kind of playing 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: second fiddle in Asia to China, and so these banks 45 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: haven't really looked at Japan for many years and are 46 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: now realizing the need to build up the business. So 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: now international banks, while Street banks included, are all kind 48 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: of racing in Japan to take advantage of the market 49 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 1: renaissance that's happening. 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 51 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: Every week we take you inside some of the world's 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and 53 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today, in the 54 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: show Wall Street's talent War in Japan and why a 55 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 2: pivot there could be a bumpy road ahead, Bloomberg's Lisa 56 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,760 Speaker 2: du started taking note of the intense competition for finance 57 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: talent in Japan last year. There are a couple of drivers. Inflation, 58 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: corporate reforms and low borrowing costs have made Japan a 59 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 2: more lucrative environment for investors. Then there's a slew of 60 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: mega deals also putting Japan in the spotlight. 61 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: Right now, Toyota Industries is about to be taken private 62 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: for about thirty three billion dollars. The operator of seven 63 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: to eleven seven and I Holdings is facing a bid 64 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: from a Canadian firm to Buya for about fifty to 65 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: two billion dollars and from Bloomberg data that we crunched. Actually, 66 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:57,800 Speaker 1: I think the value of announced deals in the past 67 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: twelve months is up about seventy percent in Japan. 68 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: Even before this renewed interest in Japan, its labor market 69 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 2: was already challenging for employers. 70 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: There's been a chronic and acute labor shortage in Japan 71 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: for many, many years, and this is due to the 72 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,919 Speaker 1: aging demographics. And at the same time, they have this 73 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: younger workforce that's more mobile, more vibrant, has different ideas 74 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: about what they want from their jobs, and may not 75 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: be as attracted to a job in finance as they 76 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: were in the past. 77 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 2: Banks and money managers looking to hire face an even 78 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: smaller talent pool. Japan's unemployment rate sits at just two 79 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 2: point five percent, roughly half of the US level, and 80 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 2: by the numbers, that means for every applicant there are 81 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 2: often multiple jobs available. Lisa says it's not uncommon for 82 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 2: rising stars to receive five or six offers. Lisa, how 83 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: many jobs are waiting to be filled now in Japan's 84 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: banking sector? I mean, how big of a problem are 85 00:04:58,040 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 2: we talking about. 86 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 1: It's hard to get exact data on this, but most 87 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: banks and financial executives that we're speaking to, you know, 88 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 1: have always mentioned they need to add headcount, that this 89 00:05:07,720 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 1: is something that's on top of their mind all time. 90 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: So City Group had told us that they were expanding 91 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:15,360 Speaker 1: their investment banking team by about fifteen percent. JP Morgan 92 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 1: Chase was saying they needed to add to their capital 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 1: raising and financing teams. Carlisle Group, the big private equity firm. 94 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: They've just raised a giant Japan buyout fund and they 95 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: said they need to hire ten more investment professionals to 96 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 1: deploy that money. 97 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: So even if the scale isn't like thousands and thousands 98 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:36,640 Speaker 2: of jobs, it sounds like these are pretty critical jobs 99 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 2: for these international firms. 100 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: Yes, and I think timing is very key. Is they 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: really want these job candidates now to take advantage of 102 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: this moment because there is this demand, And what are these. 103 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:47,839 Speaker 2: Banks doing to attract talent? 104 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: I mean, this is you know banks. While she were 105 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: talking about so of course money, Yeah, one investment banking 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: partner we had spoken to said they had raised the 107 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: offers they made for investment banking by about ten percent 108 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: every year in the last three years. You know, we 109 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: had heard that younger associate analyst level bankers in Japan 110 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: would make about one hundred and forty thousand US dollars 111 00:06:13,279 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: per year, and that will compare to New York, where 112 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: these associo bankers will make about two hundred thousand US 113 00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: dollars a year. Japan historically has had slightly lower pay 114 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: in the financial sector than most other places in the world, 115 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 1: so these are quite big pay bumps for these young 116 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 1: bankers in Japan. 117 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: Besides showering candidates with cash, banks are adopting other more 118 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,799 Speaker 2: creative ways to woo talent. 119 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 1: One thing we heard they were doing was holding these 120 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: parties where they invite people that left the firm to 121 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 1: kind of common network again to try to get them 122 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: to come back. Some are being more serious about setting 123 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: up an alumni network so that they then have basically 124 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: a contact list of people they can reach out to 125 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: if they want to hire them back, and they're whining 126 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: and dining them as well and try to get them on. 127 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: And it's not just young graduates that banks are finding 128 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: difficult to recruit. Lisa says the shortage for finance staff 129 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 2: is across the board. 130 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: There is also a great need for mid level to 131 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: senior bankers. One interesting phenomenon we've also been tracking is 132 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 1: obviously the Japanese government bond market has come back to 133 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: life because Japan has exit negative rates, and so some 134 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: brokerages are trying to leer back. Workers have retired because 135 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: these guys know what a world with interest rates was. Like, 136 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: traders who were in their twenties and thirties have never 137 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: experienced a market with interest rates, and so some ways, 138 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 1: like being an old timer is now kind of a benefit. 139 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 2: After the break. Why is it so hard to hire 140 00:07:51,360 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: bankers in Japan? Besides having a limited talent pool, Japan 141 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,120 Speaker 2: presents unique challenges for global firms looking to expand. The 142 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 2: language barrier is at the top of the list. Unlike 143 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 2: in Hong Kong or Shanghai, traders and bankers can't get 144 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 2: by with just English. Lisa, how important is it to 145 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 2: be able to speak Japanese in these jobs? 146 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: I think it's very important and quite job specific, you know, 147 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,120 Speaker 1: like Japanese government bond traders, that's a very domestic job 148 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:35,880 Speaker 1: that requires like specialization. I think that one you really 149 00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: would need Japanese Ideally, I think what I mes in 150 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: banking jobs or investment firms like private equity would like 151 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: is someone who is just bilingual and able to seamlessly 152 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,319 Speaker 1: move between kind of Japanese culture and more of international 153 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: Western culture, so that then they can work across teams globally. 154 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: And that is the ideal, the perfect Canada, someone who 155 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 1: can just really do both. 156 00:08:57,480 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 2: So you're saying, for the bankers listening in New York London, 157 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: there's no need for them to hop on a plane 158 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 2: and try to land one of these jobs. 159 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: I think that might be hard. I think they would 160 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 1: prefer that you, you know, have some understanding of Japanese 161 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,119 Speaker 1: and Japanese culture and Japanese business practices. 162 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: At the beginning of the story, you mentioned how this 163 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 2: one young graduate turned down a Wall Street firm after 164 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 2: they tried to pressure him to join them, And I 165 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: wonder for these young candidates, do big Wall Street names 166 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:30,359 Speaker 2: half cachet does working for Goldman Sachs or an international 167 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: firm carry a lot of weight with him. 168 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: Well, he turned down a Wall Street firm for another 169 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 1: international one that was European, So I think, you know, 170 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: these big ones do have cachet, but it probably isn't 171 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 1: worth as much as they are in the US, it 172 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 1: would be just as good to work for a trading 173 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 1: house like mets be Shi or Sumitomo here to working 174 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: at Goldman Sachs. Japan is home to some of the 175 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: biggest banks in the world, the megabanks, and large brokerages 176 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 1: like Nomura and Daiwa which have international operations. So you know, 177 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: if you are a young grad in Japan, it would 178 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 1: be equally attractive to go work for these firms and 179 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: also make a lot of good money and have a 180 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: very international experience. 181 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 2: On top of that, Wall Street firms are also up 182 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 2: against a culture that prizes loyalty. Workers in Japan often 183 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:20,520 Speaker 2: stay at the same company for their entire career, and 184 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 2: poaching employees from rival firms is frowned upon. 185 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: One aspect is Japanese workers historically tend to be very 186 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: loyal to where they're working, and back in the days, 187 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: like your parents, who probably stayed the same company for life, 188 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: that was very common. Your company took care of you, 189 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 1: and when we retire, they also took care of you. 190 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,280 Speaker 1: And some of that mindset is still there, but it's 191 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: slowly changing. 192 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 2: Lisa says. What's changing is how young people think about 193 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,319 Speaker 2: work and their careers in general, and that means working 194 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 2: for big finance corporations might not be as attractive as 195 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 2: it once was. 196 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,440 Speaker 1: Which saw this really in the mindsets of younger workers 197 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: we spoke to. They want better work life balance, They 198 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 1: want to do work that they think is more meaningful 199 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: and more impactful, and sometimes the salary doesn't even sway them. Actually, 200 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: one former investment banker I spoke to who opted to 201 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: go into venture capital said he didn't need that much money. 202 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: He found being able to help build up businesses way 203 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:23,160 Speaker 1: more rewarding. 204 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: Lisa, what do you think this story tells us about Japan. 205 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: I think what's interesting about the story is that I 206 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 1: think it captures a moment in time, and we're telling 207 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,199 Speaker 1: it through financial firms, but it could probably apply to 208 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: other industries as well. Where Japan is having a kind 209 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 1: of financial renaissance. It's become very interesting again global investors 210 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: for global banks, and as they rush back in to 211 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:53,960 Speaker 1: try to take advantage of this, they're running up against 212 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: a problem that has always been there and is actually 213 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,960 Speaker 1: getting much worse. I'm not sure we can make any 214 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,120 Speaker 1: big hypothesis about the future from this tale, but I 215 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: think kind of painting this picture of what it's like 216 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: in Japan right now is quite interesting. 217 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: And how long do you think this intense competition for 218 00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 2: talent will last. 219 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: I think that will go on for as long as 220 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: the Japanese markets are sexy. I think it all ties 221 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 1: back to attractiveness of the Japanese market. And this is 222 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:30,040 Speaker 1: a question that investors' financiers all ask all the time. 223 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: Is this moment for real? Is Japan like really back 224 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: for the long run? And all the factors I described 225 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,280 Speaker 1: before about easy borrowing, week yen driving all this activity. 226 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:43,719 Speaker 1: As long as that continues, this will also go on. 227 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,719 Speaker 2: This is The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanha. 228 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 2: To get more from The Big Take and unlimited access 229 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 2: to all of Bloomberg dot Com, subscribe to at Bloomberg 230 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,960 Speaker 2: dot com slash podcast offer. If you like the episode, 231 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 2: make sure to subscribe and review The Big Take Asia 232 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 2: wherever you listen to podcasts. It really helps people find 233 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.