WEBVTT - KJ Live - Bomani Jones 0:00:01.280 --> 0:00:10.280 This is kJ Live with Chris john Sallis and chriss 0:00:10.440 --> 0:00:13.680 Is having conversations with influencers in the sports world and 0:00:13.920 --> 0:00:20.560 entertainment in a strain. Now here's Chris Johnson. You're now 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.720 tuned in the kJ Live. Today's guest on the show 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:30.320 is a multitalented multimedia personality, post writer, and producer. Two 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:34.360 dollar fifteen, he won a Sports Emmy for Rand University. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.640 ESPN is thirty for thirty on legendary wide receiver Randy Moss. 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:44.159 Our guest has written on sports, music and culture for 0:00:44.479 --> 0:00:47.559 politics for the past fifteen years and continues to entertain 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.320 sports lovers with exceptional television, podcast and radio programming on 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:55.639 ESPN and most recently, he was He is joining the 0:00:55.720 --> 0:00:59.640 cast of Back on the Record with the legendary Bob 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:04.800 This on HBO. Ladies and gentlemen, let's welcome into the show. Bo. 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.479 Matti Jones is in the building. Bow. What's good dude, man? 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:11.120 I'm good man. How about you, man, I'm wonderful man. 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:13.360 I'm just out here in l A is a little overcast, 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:15.480 my man. But we're hoping this burns off and we 0:01:15.520 --> 0:01:17.160 can make a day out of it. They are only 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:19.720 gonna lose your minds over seeing plows that don't happen 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:21.960 over there very much. I know you have a little 0:01:22.000 --> 0:01:23.800 history out here too, so we'll get into that a 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:25.520 little bit. But yeah, man, it's you know, l A. 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:28.720 Weather is a trip bro. But speaking on stuff that 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:30.479 I kind of wanted to touch on with you, man, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:33.920 a lot of what you do right You're you're the 0:01:34.040 --> 0:01:38.199 kind of the contemporary pop culture commentator, the sports pop 0:01:38.200 --> 0:01:40.840 culture commentators, so we can always get your take on 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:44.199 anything that's happening. You come up these really thoughtful, intelligent 0:01:44.319 --> 0:01:46.880 sort of takes. Man, You're always getting into the thick 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:49.080 of it. But I don't think a lot of folks 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.240 know your background. So one of the things I kind 0:01:51.240 --> 0:01:53.240 of wanted to do because I've always been fascinated with 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.160 your background ever since I first met you. I just 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.360 kind of wanted to touch on a little bit about 0:01:57.360 --> 0:02:01.080 where you're from, how you grew up, your edguc asial background, man, 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:03.920 some of your accolades, and then sort of how you 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:10.040 transitioned into sports media. Yeah. No, Um, I was born 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:13.280 in Atlanta, UM, and we moved to Houston when I 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:15.880 was right before I turned seven years old. We stayed 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.400 there until I graduated high schools like right before I 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.720 turned uh seventeen, and I went back to Atlanta with 0:02:22.840 --> 0:02:26.840 college at Clark Atlanta University. My parents were both professors. 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:29.560 And the thing about Clark that was interesting was at 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.680 the time my father was working there and you know 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:35.400 people as well. I was going to school and one 0:02:35.400 --> 0:02:36.960 thing I knew I wasn't gon do was to go 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.840 to school where my dad worked. That just didn't seem 0:02:39.880 --> 0:02:42.720 to make any sense whatsoever, right, Like, I know, I 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.919 wasn't going to school anywhere near home, and then like 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.600 everything was moving back towards there for the family. I 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:51.800 was like, it doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Um. And 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.320 then my brother, who's thirteen years old than me, explained 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.639 that ain't worried about what you're doing. Okay, cool, right, 0:02:57.800 --> 0:02:59.560 And so I made a trip down there. So he 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.200 got rather Atlanta like I got to college in ninety seven, 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:04.799 but I took a visit there at ninety six, so 0:03:05.000 --> 0:03:09.040 like this isn't like yeah, like this is Atlanta on 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:11.480 the come up, right, this is right after the Olympics 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.520 and all of that. And I got there and I 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:15.800 was like, oh, there's no question where I'm going to school. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.600 Right here, and that is exactly what I did. And 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.959 so I was there from one and always say that 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.000 like being in Atlanta at that time. Now it's all 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.200 kind of outside and kind of growing itself, and there's 0:03:29.200 --> 0:03:31.200 the Rezilion things going on, but not a lot of 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.040 room for things to breed. This was while all of 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.280 that was building, and it still felt like reasonable in 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.080 a sense. It was like people were coming from everywhere 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.760 to little did they know, contribute to something that was 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:46.320 then regional and them would like suddenly become kind of 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:49.600 like the pulse now of Black Coast in America is 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.640 really coming out of Atlanta. Um. And so I started 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:58.400 writing about music the summer after my junior year of college, 0:03:59.120 --> 0:04:01.960 and so he said, oh no, this is now. It's 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.960 like two thousand, two thousand two kids when I got there, 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.760 and that like, again, this was the best place to 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:10.880 be because so many people like I went to college. 0:04:10.920 --> 0:04:12.400 We were trying to get this thing going, trying to 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:14.200 get this website off the ground, trying to get this 0:04:14.280 --> 0:04:16.719 you know, producial company, because Atlanta was the place to be. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:18.400 If that's who you were, you know, that's what you 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:21.400 were about, you were gonna know somebody, right, And so 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:24.839 it's people like you just you know, you could always 0:04:24.839 --> 0:04:26.440 tell who was front. And like, this is when cell 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.440 phones were not the most common thing in the world. 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:30.520 You always have somebody walking down to yard act like 0:04:30.560 --> 0:04:33.560 they're being important talking. And then as I started writing 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:35.400 and getting in it, I started doing things and realizing, 0:04:35.400 --> 0:04:38.799 oh no, this person actually is like making some things happen, 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:41.480 actually is working on something. And so there was like 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:43.839 a real spirit of collaboration around a lot of that 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:45.640 stuff because so many people would just do you know, 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:48.000 we're trying to play the same game, but not in 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:52.080 a way that was that necessitated, like competition between people, 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:53.560 Like they didn't make a whole lot of sense for 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:55.839 folks at that point. So I did that. I graduated 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:57.279 from college, and I was like, the one thing I 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:58.920 know I'm not gonna do is go to grad school, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:00.960 which meant, of course, in the fall of Able one, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:04.320 I was in grad school. I went to Claremont Graduate 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:08.440 University in Clarmont, California. What made so you You was 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.640 off of it at first, but then you decided to 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.840 come to Calign. Now why did you decide to make 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.080 the move to grad school? Because I wasn't doing anything 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.360 else and these people called me, and I'll never forget 0:05:18.360 --> 0:05:21.240 they called me, like in August, and they were trying 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.240 to talk to me about this fellowship that they had 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:24.960 and I was like, man, I guess, like, I really 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:27.599 don't want to do this. I really thought I was 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.279 under a grave misunderstanding of how much money you could 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.760 make by writing. Like I thought that I was going 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:34.800 to be able to sustain in a livelihood as a 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:39.240 freelance writer. And that was man, I was dumb, Like 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:41.880 that was that like like that was just And I 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:44.520 remember the moment that I realized it was dumb, and 0:05:44.560 --> 0:05:48.040 I realized that it was dumb. I guess it had 0:05:48.040 --> 0:05:49.960 to be around April because it was tax time and 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:51.919 I was talking to a dude that I met, you know, 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:54.800 internet met, you know, who was a freelance writer. And 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.160 he told me he was so excited because he was 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:00.760 doing his taxes and he realized that he had made 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.120 ten thousand dollars freelancing that year. And I was like, 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:08.080 excuse me, what, like the whole year, the whole year. Yeah, 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.520 I had no idea that these people that were right 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:12.640 at the same site as we had day jobs, Like, 0:06:12.680 --> 0:06:14.720 I didn't realize this. I was like, oh no, this 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.320 is this is definitely a problem. And so I had 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:19.920 met up with this dude from Baltimore who was trying 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:25.200 to start a magazine and he had sold me some 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.440 promises about, you know, how much work I could get 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:31.720 and all that stuff. So one weekend, my buddies were 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:33.479 going up to d C because one of those from 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:35.960 a d C and so rolled up there with him. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:37.680 I think I brought a hundred dollars from my parents 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:39.599 because I was gonna meet this dude and hammerad this 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.520 deal and get this figured out. And that dude stood 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:44.520 me up like I never heard from the while I 0:06:44.600 --> 0:06:47.760 was there, and I was just ghost like. I think 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:49.600 I talked to him again later, but it was kind 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.440 of a wrap on that. And I remember I was 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:55.279 at my buddies mom's house and I was just my 0:06:55.360 --> 0:06:57.600 head was back. I was so stressed out. In the 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.599 phone rang and it was the folks that amat and 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.440 they were like, yeah, so about this fellowship. I was like, okay, 0:07:03.480 --> 0:07:05.800 like now I'm listening right, like now I gotta now. 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:07.600 I got a little more of an into it. And 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.080 then I remember I hit the lady on email. No, 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.200 maybe in that conversation I said, Okay, so this is 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.040 for February. I mean for January, right, She's like, oh no, no, 0:07:15.080 --> 0:07:18.040 that's for this fall. So we're now in the middle 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:21.640 of August and she's like, it's for this fall, and 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:23.680 I want to talk to the parents. And you know, 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:25.800 we made it work. I got out there. I've never 0:07:25.880 --> 0:07:29.440 been to California before. I didn't know anybody in California. 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:33.680 This wasn't the plan. And and and this is a 0:07:33.800 --> 0:07:38.360 very important detail. I had a misunderstanding of the spatial 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:43.560 geography of southern California. So I thought that I was 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:49.600 going to l A. I thought I was going to 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:54.320 people Los Angeles. Clairemont is a little different than that. 0:07:54.480 --> 0:07:58.400 Right now, I caught a flight into Ontario, a very 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:02.560 convenient and charming airport. Just absolutely but it became very 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:08.680 clear to me very quickly that it was not Los Angeles, no, sir, 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.840 I mean, was there an adjustment process being from the south, 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:14.800 or did you just fit in fine because it's the 0:08:14.800 --> 0:08:20.040 college atmosphere. It was an adjustment. It wasn't really so 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.080 much about being from the south. It wasn't that. The 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:26.640 adjustment for me is that I spent four years in 0:08:26.760 --> 0:08:30.440 Southwest Atlanta, going to a black college, and like, if 0:08:30.480 --> 0:08:33.760 you're from like a place that has black colleges but 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:36.440 their state schools, you ain't got a whole lot of 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:38.800 white people there. But you got white people there right, 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.600 Like you got white folks taking classes that night when 0:08:40.640 --> 0:08:42.960 they get off work. You've got people who live around 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:45.320 the area because they can still live with their parents, 0:08:45.480 --> 0:08:47.520 you know, like they're still kind of there. When you 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.840 go to like a private black college, which Clark was, 0:08:51.679 --> 0:08:54.079 white folks ain't going paying no sixteen thousand dollars to 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.040 come hang out with us like that, Like that wasn't 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:00.240 that that was not the property location. No, And so 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.120 we had the blackest part of town at a school 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.760 as black as you could possibly imagine. And I get 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:09.559 to Claremont and I remember I got there for orientation 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.480 and there was like one black person there, like there 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.120 was no I was like a black person nowhere to 0:09:14.160 --> 0:09:16.040 be found. And I'm just walking around and I see 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.880 the sign for the Office of Black Student Affairs. Because 0:09:18.920 --> 0:09:21.040 I don't know nothing about how white colleges get down 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.440 and all of them got some office for the black 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.480 people to go hide at. You know, when things get 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.520 a little bit rough to put all programs for you 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:29.480 and stuff, and I just remember I walked in there 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.720 and they were like, yeah. I was like, I just 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.559 feel like I need to be here right now. I 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:36.520 did not know what was going at all, and so 0:09:37.320 --> 0:09:41.520 I had to like it wasn't full on adulthood, because 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:43.720 my parents are still helped me out, you know, a lot, 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.200 but this wasn't like this was a much more growing 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.720 up endeva than anything that I had done before. And 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:51.199 that was I think a big part of it. And 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:56.000 graduate schools a lot harder than undergrad It's a lot 0:09:56.160 --> 0:09:58.800 more work than undergrad is. And I had been used 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:00.439 to just kind of coasting and I could goes through 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:04.400 their relatively, but yeah, no, it was it. It It 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:10.400 was definitely a cultural difference. I wouldn't say shock, but 0:10:10.480 --> 0:10:14.760 it was definitely a difference. A quick thought on HBCUs. 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.400 I have my younger brother, Mariah, graduated from Tuskegee. He 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:21.360 actually got his masters in like occupational therapy, so he 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:23.120 does stuff. And when I talked to him about his 0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:25.679 experience there, uh, he said it was the greatest thing 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:27.760 that's ever happened to him in his life, just because 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:29.320 of the way he felt and the way you know, 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.079 people embraced him, and he felt like everybody cared about 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:37.040 his personal success. When you see all these different sort 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:40.920 of now new age kind of campaigns to highlight HBCUs, 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:42.840 Chris Paul's coming out with a movie, jay Z and 0:10:42.880 --> 0:10:46.600 Beyonce just launched something, um that is you know, I 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:48.800 forgot what it is, but a scholarship or something where 0:10:48.800 --> 0:10:53.440 they're giving directing funds to HBCUs. Do you feel like, um, 0:10:53.480 --> 0:10:56.960 this is something that's a completely genuine act or is 0:10:57.000 --> 0:10:59.320 it something that you feel that I almost say that 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:01.200 you feel, But for me, it sort of feels like 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.480 this is good timing and so people are jumping on it. 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.959 They weren't really on it before, they're kind of getting 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.120 on it now because of the timing. What's your take 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:11.679 on that boat? I think it's genuine, and I also 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.320 think it's good timing, right Like, I think that a 0:11:14.360 --> 0:11:16.959 lot of things happen in the last twelve to eighteen 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:20.559 months that, you know, made people aware and think about 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.560 things and you know that thing you've been meaning to 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.199 do but you just ain't got around to yet, you know. 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.520 I think that for a lot of these people, it 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.760 is entirely possible that this is what it was, and 0:11:29.800 --> 0:11:31.600 they pushed you to the top of the stack. The 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:33.840 only thing I questioned about it, and it's not with 0:11:33.920 --> 0:11:36.440 the intentions of the people who are doing it, is 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.600 I don't feel like it's making the right point about HBCUs, 0:11:43.000 --> 0:11:45.240 And I don't know if a lot of these campaigns 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:46.839 can really do it, because I think it's a real 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:50.080 common sense thing that gets lost in these discussions, because 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:52.720 like when I turn on TV and I see like 0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.360 on First Take, for example, where they'll go to a 0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:56.360 black college and they have somebody doing a step show 0:11:56.400 --> 0:11:58.680 and the band will be out there and they're selling 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.520 the idea of the culture. And don't get me wrong, 0:12:00.600 --> 0:12:05.280 that's dope, right, but um, that's not the reason to 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:08.080 do it. It's not for the aesthetic. The biggest thing 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:09.880 that I think that I got out of going to 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.760 an HBCU two things. Number One, I make the argument 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:21.959 that HBCUs are actually the most diverse four year college 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:25.720 environments that you'll find, and it's because there is a 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:29.480 diversity of class and experience. Because racist fiction, right, like 0:12:29.559 --> 0:12:32.200 race is just something that somebody made up in large park, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:36.320 and so the delice like why are all these people here, 0:12:36.320 --> 0:12:40.760 what's the common thing they have between them. They're all black, Okay, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.280 that doesn't really mean that much in terms of what 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.320 they actually have in common. And so once you go 0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:52.040 down the level below that, that's where you start finding like, 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:54.200 oh man, so we've got people from this you know, 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:56.079 whose mama does this for a level with mama does 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.360 that for a living um, And all those people are 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:04.160 interacting with each other on a regular basis because they're like, 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:06.520 for example, you want to come down and you can 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:09.520 go to a school that is disproportionately bourgeois. Yes, but 0:13:09.559 --> 0:13:11.840 you go to most HBCU schools and you're a bougie kid. 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:14.760 Hey man, there ain't enough of y'all to like really 0:13:15.160 --> 0:13:18.079 parse yourselves out from everybody else, Like all five of 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:19.680 y'all gonna be doing that, you know what I mean. Like, 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:21.560 it's just it's not enough people for you to be 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:23.679 able to pull that kind of thing off. And so 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.960 I met more kinds of people for more places in college. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:30.000 Then I think that most people who go to a 0:13:30.000 --> 0:13:33.280 predominant white school would like, you know, there's the international 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.120 element I think that comes in when you go to 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:37.440 a predominantly white school. You know, just as people know 0:13:37.480 --> 0:13:39.160 those brands and they go or whatever. But in terms 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:41.720 of your actual interaction, especially if you are a black person, 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:43.480 the black poles wind of going to them schools and 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.040 then just still hanging out with a bunch of black people. 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.120 Just like, what's going to going to school with all 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:47.679 these white posts if you ain't gonna kick it with them? 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.720 Right like, like like this is this is what you 0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:52.400 signed up for. But I think that I met a 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.040 broader range of people than most people do in college 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:58.560 by going to a black school. The other thing is 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:05.640 like I'm not even talking about microaggressions and all that 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:07.880 stuff that you know people who go to white school's 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:10.360 talk about. And I mean I went to you know, 0:14:10.440 --> 0:14:13.000 to very white school, well one very in the Carolina, 0:14:13.040 --> 0:14:15.480 which is an interesting thing in itself, and Claremont's wiggy 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:19.000 white um, and I never like, maybe I just don't 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:22.560 notice these things, but you know, the microaggression and everybody 0:14:22.560 --> 0:14:24.160 getting on you and all that stuff. Now, I didn't 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:29.240 notice that. What I did notice, though, was how surprised 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.359 people would be when they found out I was actually 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:37.800 kind of smart, right, Like that was the biggest difference there. 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.080 And so at the black school, there's a level of 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:47.600 skepticism that you don't have to deal with from people. Right, 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:50.160 there are people who are more likely as a if 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:52.560 you are a black person, to believe in what you're 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:54.840 capable of, because white FLEs got so much hair trash 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.440 about black people that they don't even necessarily realize that 0:14:57.480 --> 0:14:59.840 they have even the best intention. Some of the best 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.200 people like, they grew up in this same thing that 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:04.600 we did, right, Like all this stuff that we complain about, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.400 they grew up with it and ain't really done a 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:08.600 whole lot of questioning of it for the most part, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:10.440 and so they don't know that they're thinking about that. 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:14.400 So like with me, the way people who I worked 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.840 with in college, you know, professors and the likes, leaned 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.200 in on my capabilities. I didn't find that at most 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.720 of the white educational environments that I was in that 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.760 people did that the same way. And that's what I 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.920 think is the biggest thing that has a black student 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.160 that you are going to get out of the black college. 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.680 If you are a talented person to create a person 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.360 to think or whatever is, those people working with you 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.760 have to jump over far fewer hoops and get a 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.480 lot less stuff out of the way before they can 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:48.280 see what you're capable of staying on. Uh, that's that's 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.240 that's interesting, And that's the perspective that I really haven't 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.200 heard to explain like that as far as the diversity. 0:15:54.840 --> 0:15:56.520 But you can't get on TV and say that stuff, 0:15:56.520 --> 0:15:57.640 you know what I'm saying, like when they're trying to 0:15:57.680 --> 0:16:00.000 get out here and make the pitch. So what's the issue? 0:15:59.800 --> 0:16:02.880 A man? Wife? Fols don't be thinking we can do stuff, 0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.320 you know, like they're not Chris Paul. Can't get on 0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:10.280 TV and be like that. That's not gonna work. That's 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:13.640 not gonna work. They never gonna give us nobody to 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.160 help do this if we start acting like that in 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:19.320 front of people, come on, man, No exactly, but standing 0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:21.960 college man, the game, the college game has changed a lot. 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.240 Basketball sports game has changed a lot since we were 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:27.600 in school and since our era. Just what is your 0:16:27.600 --> 0:16:30.520 take on things like conference realignment, the n i L 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.480 and and sort of the what I think is the 0:16:33.560 --> 0:16:37.120 declining popularity of college basketball. I feel like college basketball 0:16:37.160 --> 0:16:39.920 is at one of its lowest points as far as popularity. 0:16:40.000 --> 0:16:42.480 Do you agree with this assessment and what are your thoughts? Yeah? 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:44.880 Absolutely do. And it's interesting for me because you know, 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.800 when I started doing radio is doing it in North Carolina, 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:50.000 you know, and living there and being immersed in the 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:54.000 place where the sports market is college sports, you know, 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.440 but it's also kind of exposed, not really exposed, but 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:58.840 it just made me kind of think about it in 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.800 a way that like, I wasn't making all the money 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.080 in the world, but I was making money to sit 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:07.240 up on the radio and talk about what college kids 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:09.240 were doing, right, and I was, and I would and 0:17:09.280 --> 0:17:11.760 I would go through some dilemmas really on like how 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.679 exactly to present it, because like you, you know, you 0:17:15.680 --> 0:17:16.800 have to be fair, you have to be honest, you 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.480 have to be somewhat critical. But these are also kids, 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.719 and they're not making no money, you know, Like I 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:22.440 do not want my job to be out here and 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.280 people being like, man, look at listen to the way 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:26.960 that he picked on this twenty year old, you know, 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:28.479 Like I didn't want that, but it let me know 0:17:29.440 --> 0:17:32.680 these are pro sports, Like we are talking about this 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.640 like it's pro sports, and all of it is professionalized 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:40.119 and the money has just gotten so big. And I 0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:42.399 don't bring that up, you know, to like speak to 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:44.440 the horrors or evils to capitalism, but just to talk 0:17:44.440 --> 0:17:48.960 about the incentives for players where the chances of making 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:51.680 a gazillion dollars are just so much higher than they 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.640 ever were, and so people are going all in on 0:17:55.720 --> 0:18:01.120 all these dreams real early, Like that's the big thing 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:04.720 about it. Got a home boy. His son was one 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.240 of the top ten nine year olds in the state 0:18:07.280 --> 0:18:12.720 of Georgia at basketball. How was that a list? Right? Yeah, like, 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:17.800 how is somebody compiling this? But we are identifying athletes 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:22.720 so young and so I remember somebody told me this, 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:24.520 and I never really thought about it this way, and 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.040 we were talking about Ty Lawson at the time, and 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:31.680 I'll never forget. I was there when Lawson declared for 0:18:31.720 --> 0:18:35.360 the draft press conference in Chapel Hill, and somebody asked 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:38.639 the perfunctory question of whether he and Wayne Ellington were 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:41.520 going to come back and finish their degrees and laws 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.880 and laughed like he didn't laugh in the behind his face, 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.480 but his immediate reaction was a laugh because this was 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:49.159 not what he was here for. And I remember the 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:50.760 guy was talking to he was pretty good high school 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.200 basketball player at the time, and he was like, as 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:59.359 soon as somebody changes schools for basketball, it's officially a job. 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:05.680 Like once you once that happens, this becomes a professional endeavor. 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.760 And so people are just looking up. They're not even 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:12.320 thinking about going to college, like that's just not the ideas. 0:19:12.400 --> 0:19:14.280 And you also have a chance to get an education. 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.480 Now they ain't even talk no more like like somebody 0:19:16.520 --> 0:19:18.679 might convince you of it after you get there. So 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.359 the highest level dudes are just if they're going to college, 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:25.040 they're getting there, they're immediately playing, they're getting out. They 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.439 ain't really got no investment in what the program is 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.399 or what is going to be except like cal figured 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:31.440 out a way to build something where guys cared about 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.639 where the place was. But they just getting in and 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:37.400 they're getting out. And so where twenty five years ago, 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.280 even though some guys were leaving early, But twenty five 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:44.439 years ago, those were the best basketball players under twenty 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:48.399 two in the world. Basically who are playing college basketball now? 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:53.240 It's like are just a random mix of players and 0:19:53.320 --> 0:19:56.240