1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: I remember in the seventh grade one of my friends, 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,160 Speaker 1: her older sister, was sneaking zema's. She had them under 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: the bed. Do you know what zemas are? They were 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: like yes, right and Berth Yes, It's like a prelude 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: to smear advice. 6 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: It was smear knov Ice before smear knop Ice. Zima 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: was blazing the trail. 8 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 1: Something I did without my parents' permission. I got a tattoo. 9 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: Same right before going to college. I got a tattoo. 10 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: And I still don't think my mom knows. She's about 11 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: to know, she's about to know. I didn't know about it. 12 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: Mister Shoda, Yes she did. 13 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 2: Everybody getting in trouble. If I'm getting in trouble, you 14 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: getting in trouble to you. 15 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: And it was before my time. I'm t T and 16 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:51,160 Speaker 1: I'm Zachiah And from Spotify Studios. This is Dope Labs. 17 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Lab. This episode, we're talking about vaccines. 18 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: So tt what did vaccines have to do with all 19 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: the sneaky stuff we did as teenagers. 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 2: Well, we started talking about it after hearing about this 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: teenager from Ohio named Ethan Lindenberger. He snuck out of 22 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: his house but not for the reasons that we were 23 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 2: talking about, Right, he snuck out of his house to 24 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: get a vaccination, Like, snuck out the house and got 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: a golf drup living life on the wild side, man. 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: But why did he have to sneak out to get vaccinated? 27 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: So Ethan's mom is a part of this growing community 28 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: that is against vaccinations. So they don't really want to 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 2: vaccinate their children because they feel like it has some 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: adverse effects. And Ethan says that his mama basically was 31 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: at Facebook University getting all this information. 32 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: And so he's been testifying in the Senate hearing to 33 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: kind of give kids the right to get vaccinated if 34 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: they want to, because he was only able to do 35 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: it because he was eighteen. Right, that's when I got 36 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: my tattooed. But I was still living at home and terrified. 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: I don't know how you got away with that, Chile. 38 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 1: The other thing to remember is that this, even though 39 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: we heard about it because of Ethan, that story really 40 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: helps us kind of capture where we are today. This 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: isn't just happening in Ohio. 42 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 2: So there are some reasons why people don't want to 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: get vaccinated, right. 44 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and some of them are good reasons, well, what 45 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,240 Speaker 1: I would consider a good reason, Like there are medical 46 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 1: reasons you're allergic to something that's in the vaccine, so 47 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: like if you're allergic to eggs, eggs, right, religious reasons, 48 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: And then there are some people who it's like a 49 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: philosophical reason, like I'm not sure about it. I don't 50 00:02:34,520 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: think the government should tell me what I should do 51 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: with my child. 52 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 2: I kind of understand a little bit why people are like, oh, 53 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: I'm not too sure about vaccines because people don't really 54 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: trust the medical community and because of I mean, it's history, 55 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: but they're absolute trust in people who are not even 56 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: medicine adjacent, like people who who don't even have a 57 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 2: lick of a degree in any type of biological science 58 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: is a mind boggling to me. 59 00:03:05,639 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: Like Jenny McCarthy has been one of the most outspoken 60 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 1: celebrities against vaccines, but Cindy Crawford, Jim Carrey, Charlie Sheen, 61 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: and Alicia Silverstone with Tiger Blood Tiger Blood Yes, and 62 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: Alicia Silverstone from Clueless, they've all expressed concernment it comes 63 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: to vaccine safety. Why are you going to Jenny McCarthy 64 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: for your medical advice? I mean it's just like going 65 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 1: to Dry Rule for political advice. You remember that Dave 66 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: Chappelle's skit. Yes, it's like, no one wants to hear 67 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: from dry Rule. I personally don't want to hear from 68 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: Jenny McCarthy, not about medicine. Maybe she can maybe if 69 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: I'm going back on singled out, I remember that showing. 70 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,040 Speaker 2: But other than that, no, thank you exactly unless you 71 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 2: count down the ball drop on Ryan Seacrest New Year's 72 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 2: Rock and Eve. 73 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to hear from you. Keep it. But 74 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: you know what's happening now. People are getting sick. 75 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: And the year two thousand, measles was pretty much eliminated. 76 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: Right, it was eradicated. The CDC declared it eradicated, right. 77 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: And now there have been already over two hundred and 78 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: fifty confirmed cases of measles in twenty nine. 79 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, did you see the boy in Oregon who had 80 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,280 Speaker 1: tetanus and was in the hospital all those weeks? Listen. 81 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: I don't even really know what tetanus is, because that's 82 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: something that I felt like only the Pilgrim's. 83 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: Got, well, every pilgrim had tetanus. Listen, it's the Oregon 84 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: trail out here Okay, you have got to check your neighbor. 85 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 1: I feel like we're going back in time. I don't 86 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: want this life. 87 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: I don't want to be walking outside and feeling like, oh, 88 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 2: there's a chance I may catch some medieval disease. 89 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,360 Speaker 1: Well you better keep your eyes open because the black 90 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: flague might be next. So let's get into the recitation. 91 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: What do we know? Zakia? Just to get everybody on 92 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,880 Speaker 1: the same page, this episode is not about whether or 93 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: not vaccines work. 94 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 2: Right. 95 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:43,719 Speaker 1: We know that they work right when they're introduced to 96 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: a population. The instance of those cases, right, the number 97 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 1: of cases for the disease that you're vaccinating against, it drops, 98 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 1: and it drops dramatically. We also know that they've been 99 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: around for a while, right, Yeah, we were talking about measles, 100 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 1: and the measles vaccine has been around since nineteen sixty three, 101 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,599 Speaker 1: so it's been through a lot of testing. It's also 102 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: been deployed for millions of people across the United States, 103 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: because that's how science works, like it gets tested over 104 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 1: and over and over and over again, especially things that 105 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: are going to be put out onto the population for 106 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: us to consume. I feel like I understand how vaccines 107 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,599 Speaker 1: work and how viruses work. I do not, And I 108 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: think because I understand what a vaccine is and what 109 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: a virus is, I'm asking why are people not getting vaccinated? 110 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: So I'm more interested in the behavior. I have a 111 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: lot of questions. 112 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: I feel like there was an uptick in people saying 113 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 2: that their vaccine hesitant or anti vaxxers in recent years, 114 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,840 Speaker 2: and so I'm wondering if scientists have been seeing that. 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 1: Uptick and what do they attribute to that uptick. Is 116 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: it just memes on the internet or are there is 117 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,680 Speaker 1: there a greater force at play here? Yeah, And I'm 118 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: kind of just interested in the basics, like what is 119 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: a virus? 120 00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 2: Like, what is a vaccine? How does a vaccine work? 121 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: So let's get into the dissection. 122 00:05:56,600 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: Buckle in, here we go. Today's guest is doctor Rupolli LeMay. 123 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 3: I am an assistant scientist here at the Johns Hopkins 124 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 3: Bloomberg School of Public Health. I also serve as the 125 00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 3: Associate director for Behavioral Research for the Institute for Vaccine Safety. 126 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:13,839 Speaker 2: So one of the things that's really cool about Rupauli 127 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,719 Speaker 2: is that she used to be in marketing. 128 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: So she knows about a good message. 129 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,240 Speaker 3: So I've come at public health in a very different way. 130 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 3: And what we're trying to do is think about how 131 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: do we use persuasion techniques to get parents to accept 132 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 3: vaccines for their children. 133 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:30,160 Speaker 1: Rupolli is a woman after our own hearts. She understands 134 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: that the science it's only as good as the medium 135 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,000 Speaker 1: that you're using to communicate it, right, Right, nobody wants 136 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 1: to read paragraphs on paragraphs of the dry eyes commercial 137 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: basis exactly. Nobody wants that you. 138 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 2: Know, there's verses, right, So first things first, before we 139 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,359 Speaker 2: get into vaccines and how they work, let's start with 140 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: the basics. 141 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 1: What is a virus? I like to think of viruses 142 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,720 Speaker 1: as like little peanut eminem's right, love peanut M and M. 143 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 1: Well you want well, love peanut eminems and not viruses. 144 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 1: So you have the hard shell, right, that's like your 145 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: protein coat that has different particles and different types of 146 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: proteins on the outside, and then inside the peanut is 147 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 1: some type of nucleic acid. So it could be DNA 148 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: or RNA depending on the virus. So that's the anatomy. 149 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,640 Speaker 1: That's the basic anatomy of a virus. 150 00:07:16,720 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: Okay, peanut eminem i got it, But what do they 151 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: do it? 152 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 3: Really lives to reproduce, is what it's. It's really the 153 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: best way to explain it. 154 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: And it's spread by a number of ways. 155 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 3: Right, you can cough on someone, You can have droplets 156 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 3: in the air from sneezing, really any contact, mostly with 157 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 3: bodily fluids. 158 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: Remember that woman that was on the train with us 159 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 2: coughing and not covering her mouth. 160 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Yes, she was a projectile. 161 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 2: Pushing those organisms all over the train, and I was like, 162 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:45,640 Speaker 2: we have to change cars. Zakia literally leaned over to 163 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: me and said, she has protests, we have to change cars. 164 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 2: If she wasn't going to cover her mouth, she at 165 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 2: least needed to put on like a nextcare mask. Yes, okay, 166 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: but once you get a virus, how do those things 167 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: harlem shake through your whole entire body. 168 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 3: So usually what happens is that a virus will enter 169 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 3: your body, it has to find a hostyle to infect. 170 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: Once it gets into that host cell, it replicates, and 171 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 3: then once it replicates, it leaves that host cell through 172 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: the membrane and goes to infect other host cells. 173 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: I think viruses are like you know in the cartoons 174 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: where it's like two kids and a coat. They ring 175 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: there like when there's the little rascals when they stack 176 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 1: them cells on top, stack themselves on top of each 177 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: other and ring the doorbell. That's how a virus enters 178 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: your cells. 179 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: Right, Hello, I'm here to sell you encyclopedias. Then they 180 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 2: get inside like psych I'm here to infect and. 181 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 1: Then they just hijack all the machinery and make tons 182 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: of more virus that then goes on to do the 183 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: same thing at each other hostess dipset and go to 184 00:08:37,800 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: the next cell. 185 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,320 Speaker 3: So it just continues to spread rapidly through your body. 186 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: So what really happens If you think about each cell 187 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:45,920 Speaker 1: as like a house in a neighborhood. You go from 188 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: one person ringing the doorbell, right, one of those disguises 189 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: is to like trigger treat. It's like everybody at every 190 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: door pushing to get into all those host sales. Right, 191 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: it's mayhem, it's madness. 192 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:58,319 Speaker 2: After these cells are infected with these viruses, these kids 193 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: that are just running up on all of us, what happens. 194 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 2: What are the symptoms that start to occur. Let's take 195 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: measles for example. 196 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 3: In terms of symptoms, it's sort of the run of 197 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 3: the melt, like it's a fever. It's a cough, it's 198 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 3: a runny nose, it could be a sore throat. Your 199 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 3: child could get conjunctivitis. So if you're a parent and 200 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 3: you're experiencing these symptoms with your child, you might just say, oh, 201 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: my kid has the flu or you know, some sort 202 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 3: of other viral infection. It wouldn't necessarily think it was measles. 203 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this can get really serious and in some 204 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: cases it can lead to death. That's a lot of backterier. 205 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:31,480 Speaker 1: Can I just use a bunch of pirel? 206 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: Uh? 207 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: Okay? 208 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 2: So? 209 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 1: Oh no, no, I know I said something wrong. You know, uh, 210 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 1: that's not quite right. There's a big difference between viruses 211 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 1: and bacteria, one being that there's no cure for a virus. 212 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: So, you know, from like a parental perspective, people will say, oh, 213 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: you know, maybe your doctor'll say we'll give a viral infection, 214 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 3: and they'll say, well, can I get antibiotics? It's not 215 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 3: really going to do anything for it. 216 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: Oh so pirel is not gonna it's not gonna do that, 217 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 2: not gonna. So, because viruses don't have a cure, it's 218 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:03,359 Speaker 2: all about. 219 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: Prevention, and a lot of that has to do with 220 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 1: being able to defend against them when they present to 221 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: our bodies or when we encounter them. 222 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 3: Vaccinations can't cure them, but they can stop them from spreading, 223 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 3: and that's why vaccinations are so important within viruses. 224 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:19,680 Speaker 2: So let's have doctor LeMay help us break down vaccines. 225 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 2: What are they and how do they work. 226 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 3: The most I think common way that people are familiar 227 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 3: with is that you take the virus, you weaken it, 228 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 3: you then inject it into someone's body through a vaccine. 229 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: So then your immune system, your B cell sort of response, 230 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 3: remembers it. So in the future, if you get infected 231 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: by that virus, you're able to fight against it. 232 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,320 Speaker 2: B cells these are white blood cells that help your 233 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: body with building immunity. 234 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: So when we think about immunity, they are kind of 235 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: two different ways. You split it up. There's innate immunity 236 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: that you're born with, and then there's adaptive immunity, which 237 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:51,480 Speaker 1: is where B sales play a role. And adaptive immunity 238 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:54,320 Speaker 1: is like see something, say something. So I saw something 239 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: that's out of place and is strange. I remember it 240 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: and the next time I see it, I know to 241 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: get rid of it. And so your b are part 242 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: of that system. 243 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 2: So when the vaccine, the weak and form of the 244 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: virus is injected into you. It's just so that your 245 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: body recognizes it when the real deal shows up. 246 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 3: But because it's a weakened virus, your body is able 247 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 3: to fight it. So as a result, when you actually 248 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 3: perhaps encounter that virus, you will be able to fight 249 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 3: it and not deal with really the more negative and 250 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:22,079 Speaker 3: dire consequences of viruses. 251 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 2: Your body is creating a most wanted list so that 252 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:27,080 Speaker 2: as soon as it sees this person is showing up 253 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:29,679 Speaker 2: at your door, it's like, I know exactly who you are, 254 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 2: and I'm not answering it. 255 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,280 Speaker 3: If a virus enters your body that you're vaccinated against, 256 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 3: your immune system has already seen this before, so the 257 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:38,640 Speaker 3: sort of flag goes up. The army kind of gets 258 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 3: into place of your immune system, if you will, and 259 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 3: they know how to fight it. 260 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 2: So what vaccines are sounding like is like a dating 261 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 2: app essentially, It's like vaccine tender. You see something coming up, 262 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: that virus got a gold to swipe left right, a 263 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 2: political swipe left, struggle mals swipe left. 264 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: That's right. So now we know how vaccines work on 265 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:04,080 Speaker 1: a cellular level, But how do they work in the 266 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: broad population. 267 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:06,840 Speaker 2: Here at Dope Blasts, we try not to throw around 268 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,480 Speaker 2: a lot of scientific words, but there are two words 269 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: you really need to know for this episode, herd immunity. 270 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 3: So I think the easiest way to think about herd 271 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 3: immunity is thinking about it like a protective net if 272 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 3: enough people. Let's say you have ten people in a herd, 273 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 3: and let's say that all of them are vaccinated, So 274 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 3: if measles comes along and wants to infect someone, it 275 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 3: will just die out because there's no one for it 276 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 3: to infect. And we know for it to live, it 277 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 3: has to be able to replicate. It literally exists to replicate. 278 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,199 Speaker 3: If we think about it from a different scenario and 279 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 3: let's say out of ten people, only five people are vaccinated, 280 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: it's much easier for measles to get in and then 281 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 3: spread it to other people. So there has to be 282 00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 3: enough susceptible people or hosts for the virus to continue 283 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 3: to live. 284 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 1: And that protective armor is so much more important when 285 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 1: the virus is contagious. So there are levels to how 286 00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: contagious a virus is. So, for example, measles is really 287 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: highly contagious, and what we mean by that is we 288 00:13:01,520 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 1: use a number called the reproductive number, and that tells 289 00:13:03,880 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: you how many more people can be infected by one 290 00:13:06,640 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: case of measles. So let's just say you have twenty 291 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:10,679 Speaker 1: people over at a dinner party. 292 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:12,400 Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have twenty people, but 293 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 2: that's fine, Okay, I don't know twenty people. 294 00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:16,680 Speaker 1: I just know you, your husband, and your sisters and 295 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:18,200 Speaker 1: your parents, and that's it. That's not even twenty and 296 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: Daisy my dog. So if you had twenty people over 297 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: for a dinner party and one person showed up and 298 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,359 Speaker 1: had measles and no one in the room was vaccinated, 299 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: twelve to eighteen people would get measles. Oh my god. 300 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:31,839 Speaker 1: So that's how many cases can you get from one 301 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: case of measles. So if you think about what that 302 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: number is for let's say HIV, it's two to five 303 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,840 Speaker 1: people at the party, considering they had sexual conn What 304 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: about protests like that woman like, that's about five to 305 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,679 Speaker 1: five and a half people on average, So, oh my goodness, 306 00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:49,080 Speaker 1: we really could have got protested. Well, well I can't 307 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: because I'm vaccinating vaccinated. It come on, somebody. So the 308 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: thing to think about is herd immunity is particularly important 309 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 1: for something like measles, where the contagiousness is so so hi. 310 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 3: That's why measles is such a challenge for us, because 311 00:14:04,280 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 3: we have to really have high rates of adherence to 312 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: the vaccine, and if you don't, it ends up spreading 313 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: very very very rapidly, and that just happens to do 314 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 3: with how they transmit. 315 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: So even if you don't think you need a vaccine, 316 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 2: part of her immunity is that it's not just about. 317 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: You, right, what about older people? What about babies they 318 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: can't get vaccinated? Yet not being a self self centered it's. 319 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 3: About protecting the people that you love, and we're doing 320 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: this strategy it's called cocooning where we're asking, for example, 321 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: if you're about to have a baby that you as 322 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 3: the mother, as well as everyone that you found yourself with, 323 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 3: your spouse, your mother in law, your parents, et cetera, 324 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: should all get the flu vaccine because that baby can't 325 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 3: be fully vaccinated for a while. So you are literally 326 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,960 Speaker 3: forming that level of protection, that sort of web if 327 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 3: you will, until that baby is old enough to get vaccinated. 328 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:57,000 Speaker 1: That's exactly what Gabrielle Union did right when Kavea James 329 00:14:57,120 --> 00:15:01,560 Speaker 1: Union Wade aka Shady baby he was born, and Oprah 330 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: wanted to do an interview. Gabrielle said that everyone on 331 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: the production team had to be vaccinated before they stepped 332 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: foot into her house. She was Cocoon and the shady baby, 333 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: and that's exactly what her community is is providing indirect 334 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: protection for a baby. Kvea. We love you, Kavia, we 335 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: love you. Yes, we're big fans. 336 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 2: Okay, we're gonna take a break, and when we come back, 337 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,640 Speaker 2: we're gonna talk about the good and bad feelings that 338 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 2: are associated with vaccination. 339 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,240 Speaker 1: The good, the bad, and the ugly. I always love 340 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 1: saying that I don't like Clint Eastwood no more, though 341 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: we don't like a lot of people anymore. Stay tuned, 342 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: all right, So we're back and we're ready to talk 343 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: about vaccine hesitancy. What's up with that? 344 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 3: Vaccine hesitancy is anyone that thinks about delaying of vaccine, 345 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,960 Speaker 3: trying to think about an alternative schedule, or really having 346 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 3: major concerns that would make them think about perhaps not 347 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: getting a vaccine that's recommended. 348 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,080 Speaker 2: So, in terms of how people feel about vaccinations, it's 349 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:14,760 Speaker 2: kind of a spectrum, right, We're on one end. You 350 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 2: have people who are saying yeah, that's totally fine, I'm 351 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: going to take my kid to go get vaccinated as 352 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 2: soon as the doctor tells me. 353 00:16:21,040 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: Mostly about a third of the population is usually kind 354 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 3: of like, yeah, I'm going to get vaccines. I'm going 355 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 3: to do what my doctor says. 356 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: Right on the other end of the spectrum, you have 357 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: people who are completely against it and they say no, 358 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: I will not vaccinate my child no matter what. Yes, 359 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: And that's about two percent, and they're commonly called anti 360 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: vaxxers or anti vaccination. 361 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 3: Then you have another probably fifty percent of the population 362 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 3: that is sort of ambivalent, if you will, so just 363 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 3: needs to be nudged in the right direction. 364 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: And then there's a huge chunk leftover who might just 365 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: be vaccine hesitant. So what are the reasons that people 366 00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: tend to be vaccine hesitant? What leads them to this hesitancy. 367 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: So there's usually three reasons people tend to be vaccine hesitant. 368 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: One has to do with this unfortunate misconception related to 369 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: adverse events related to vaccines. So that's what's really driving hesitancy, 370 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: is people are concerned about safety of vaccines. The second 371 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: tends to be about the schedule I think that parents 372 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: get very overwhelmed, particularly when they first have a baby 373 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,240 Speaker 1: and they realize how many shots this baby has to 374 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 1: get at the two month, at the four month, at 375 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: the six month, and they think, oh, my gosh, this 376 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:23,640 Speaker 1: can't be good. Right. 377 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:25,680 Speaker 3: And then the third sort of reason that people are 378 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 3: hesitant is having to do with ingredients. Like people will say, oh, 379 00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: there's formal to hide in a vaccine, And the way 380 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 3: that we have tried to address this is, you know, 381 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:34,439 Speaker 3: my response to them is, you know what, there's more 382 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: formal to hide in a pair that's in a vaccine. 383 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 1: I've never felt more betrayed by a fruit like Rick 384 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: Ross's shout out to de Paars shut out to pairs. 385 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 3: But we do hear that concern from parents. They're sort 386 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 3: of like, why would I inject a virus inside of me? 387 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:50,959 Speaker 3: What we're trying to get parents to understand is that 388 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 3: it's better for your body to be exposed to it 389 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:54,359 Speaker 3: so that you're ready to prepare it. I kind of 390 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 3: think about it like a car seat for a baby. 391 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 3: You hope that you're not in a car accident ever, 392 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 3: but it's nice that it's there, so if a car 393 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 3: accident does happen. Your child is protected. 394 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 2: Okay, so let's go back to the first reason that 395 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,159 Speaker 2: Rupauli mentioned, the one about misconceptions around vaccine safety. Unfortunately, 396 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 2: there's been at least one well known instance where a 397 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 2: doctor published research around vaccines that was later proven to 398 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:20,280 Speaker 2: be complete trash in that it was completely false. 399 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 3: The biggest one in sort of the elephant in the room, right, 400 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 3: is sort of the nineteen ninety eight study that was 401 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:28,199 Speaker 3: published that made this unfounded and incorrect link between the 402 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 3: MMR vaccine, which is measles moms and rubella and autism. Right, 403 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: that paper was protracted, he lost his medical license. 404 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: Not only was the science not sound in that study, 405 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,880 Speaker 1: but he also had other financial competing financial interests because 406 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,440 Speaker 1: he was trying to make his own measles vaccine. 407 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, the misconceptions that that article started we're still struggling 408 00:18:49,119 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 3: with now. 409 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 1: So information is a really important part of staying healthy. 410 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:58,000 Speaker 1: Remember the more you know. Yes, right, it's true though, 411 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 1: and part of why we're experiencing a rise in viruses 412 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,639 Speaker 1: that were once squashed is because there's a lot of 413 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:05,880 Speaker 1: conflicting information being shared out there and it's not always 414 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: backed up by actual fact, Right, and when you have 415 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: a large platform, the information you share has such a 416 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,600 Speaker 1: great effect. And case in point is Jenny McCarthy. Her 417 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: son does not have autism and he was vaccinated and 418 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:21,200 Speaker 1: even though she later recanted, it was delayed. 419 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:23,400 Speaker 3: But the damage was done right, And she's just one 420 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:26,200 Speaker 3: of them. And I think that if you have someone 421 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 3: like that that has a platform, that has a large 422 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 3: platform and is spouting misinformation, yeah, it's really hard for 423 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 3: us to correct that, Like who am I or some 424 00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,160 Speaker 3: other kind of academic person to come on and say, 425 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:38,959 Speaker 3: guess what? It doesn't cause about who do you think 426 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 3: people are gonna believe? 427 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: Jo Rule is not all knowing, and neither is your 428 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:44,760 Speaker 1: favorite celeb on Instagram. 429 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 2: What's really interesting is that information is just like virus. Right, 430 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: So when that virus shows up, or the information shows 431 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 2: up at your front door, and it's wearing that disguise 432 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 2: and it's not actually fact, it's just non fact being 433 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 2: said by somebody famous or somebody that you really like 434 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: or somebody that you really admire. You let that information 435 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: into your house and you just let it replicate and 436 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 2: then you spread it. And so that false information just 437 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,119 Speaker 2: spreads just like a virus does. 438 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,639 Speaker 3: So we have to figure out and we have to 439 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 3: think about how misinformation is spreading and proliferating so rapidly, 440 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 3: because if not, this misinformation is already starting to outnumber correct, 441 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 3: scientific evidence based information. 442 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 2: If you come across a meme that you aren't sure 443 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,159 Speaker 2: is scientifically correct, please tag dope Blast podcasts in it. 444 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 1: We'll do the work for you. We'll do the leg 445 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,399 Speaker 1: work because we're all friends here. We don't want you 446 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: to let those incorrect memes and a trench coat into 447 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: your home. 448 00:20:38,240 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: The other thing I think that really plays into this 449 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 3: is how many parents do you know go on social 450 00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 3: media and say, Hey, I had a great vaccine experience. 451 00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 3: Most parents aren't going to say that, So most of 452 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 3: the parents that are being vocal are ones that will say, oh, 453 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 3: I had a terrible vaccine experience. I think it led 454 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 3: my baby to. 455 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:54,119 Speaker 1: X, Y and Z. 456 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 2: Negative views on vaccines are just like Yelp reviews. You 457 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 2: don't leave a Yelp review unless you got something to 458 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 2: complain about. So what we need is more people saying 459 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: positive things. 460 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: Like I got a flu vaccine and I didn't get 461 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: the flu this season. 462 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: And neither did my grandmama, right or my baby cousin exactly. 463 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 1: Everybody's healthy. 464 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 3: And the thing I think that blows my mind the 465 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 3: most is when I look at social media and I 466 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 3: think about why are messages so incredibly effective. It's because 467 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 3: they're really focusing on emotional you know, emotions of the parent, 468 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:27,680 Speaker 3: fear based appeals to the parent they're looking at. They're 469 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 3: using stories or music, anecdotal stories, which I think are 470 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,200 Speaker 3: just much better for parents to understand. 471 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: Basically, doctor LeMay is saying we need more memes that 472 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: spread the truth, because really, all it takes is one 473 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: meme with Will Smith in the background looking serious in 474 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: a total neck and y'all will believe anything. People are 475 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 1: out here making memes and they don't care about the facts. 476 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:52,679 Speaker 1: They show a Lamborghini icon of somebody in a business 477 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: suit and a needle and say like, big Pharma is 478 00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: making vaccines to make two trillion dollars off of your babies. 479 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: That are no, it's just crazy. 480 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 2: You're just doing Google and researches and then putting all 481 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 2: those things together in a PowerPoint Yeah, and a fool 482 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:07,440 Speaker 2: of nobody. 483 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 1: Bruh. 484 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: Vaccines honestly only account for two percent of the profit 485 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 2: that Big Farmer make. 486 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,760 Speaker 3: I think the number one drug you know, one is 487 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: for a rectile dysfunction, sort of most prescribed and also 488 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 3: most profitable, but there's also one for toe fungus. And 489 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 3: I'm blinking on what the prescription is in terms of 490 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 3: money making drugs, if you will. Right, So, vaccines, in 491 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,439 Speaker 3: the grand scheme of things, do not Pharmaceutical companies do 492 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:32,680 Speaker 3: not make money off of them. 493 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: A lot of y'all got toe fungused, that's what I'm learning, 494 00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: or a few of y'all are spending a lot of 495 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: money on the prescription. 496 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:42,560 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, because of the political climate, our nation has become 497 00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 3: just extremely divisive, especially in political opinions, and so what 498 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:49,720 Speaker 3: we are finding and you hear about this a lot, 499 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 3: you sort of think, oh, I am really worldly and 500 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 3: I traveled the world and I have all these friends, 501 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 3: but you really mostly live in a bubble. 502 00:22:57,119 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: So even though we're super connected and we have all 503 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: these platforms that are that allows us to talk to 504 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: people all over, we're choosing to talk to people that 505 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: have the same ideas as us. And that's part of 506 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:08,119 Speaker 1: the problem, right, because we're talking to people that believe 507 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:10,600 Speaker 1: the things already is like preaching to the choir over 508 00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,480 Speaker 1: and over and over again. 509 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 3: But unfortunately, what that does is that tends to not 510 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 3: allow ideas to kind of spread and bridge across networks. 511 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 3: So as a result, if let's say, an influential person 512 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: in your network says, hey, you know what, I'm anti vaccine. 513 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 3: I think they're terrible because of X, Y and Z, 514 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 3: And if you don't really know that much about vaccines, 515 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 3: you would say, oh, well, this person probably knows what 516 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 3: he or she is thinking about and talking about, and 517 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 3: you're going to be much more susceptible to being influenced 518 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: by that person. 519 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 2: Right, It's just like that emotional mind thing we're talking 520 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 2: about in the last episode. Yes, you will search for 521 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,239 Speaker 2: the facts that support the beliefs and the views that 522 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 2: you have. So this reminds me of Jess Hilarious when 523 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,120 Speaker 2: she was going through something she posted, you know, her apology. 524 00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,119 Speaker 2: She was just misunderstood in everything that she retweeted was 525 00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 2: people that agreed with her perspective exactly. But I could 526 00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 2: look at her comments and see that a ton of 527 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 2: people were disagreeing. So what should people do if they're 528 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 2: unsure about vaccines and what more information? 529 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 3: They should talk to someone that they trust. Unfortunately, that 530 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 3: tends the best person that you trust may not be 531 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 3: the person that's most knowledgeable, right, And I understand that 532 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 3: there's been this decrease in trust with your healthcare provider 533 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 3: and that is unfortunate. But thinking about perhaps who has 534 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 3: the expertise to talk about this, but also who has 535 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 3: your best interest heart? 536 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: So what do we take away from this? 537 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 2: So one thing that we want to point out is 538 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 2: that we are talking about the US when throughout this 539 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 2: whole episode, there are developing countries where vaccines are not 540 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,600 Speaker 2: readily available. And I think, just for me, I know 541 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,639 Speaker 2: how viruses work, but to think about how contagious measles is, 542 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,960 Speaker 2: and to think about those countries where vaccines are not 543 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: as readily available and there's not a lot of great infrastructure, 544 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,240 Speaker 2: so people are, you know, in constant contact with each other. 545 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: I can just think of how how these diseases just 546 00:25:09,560 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 2: ripple through those populations and really just take hold of 547 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 2: a community and can almost destroy it. 548 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's so easy for us to take 549 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: this for granted, you know. And I think some of 550 00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:24,280 Speaker 1: this taking it for granted goes back to what you 551 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: said about the Yelp review. I never had measles, so 552 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: I don't really care about a measles vaccine so much. 553 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm not talking about it because also the people around 554 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: me haven't had measles because they were vaccinated. But this 555 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: could be a very real reality if we don't keep 556 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 1: our herd immunity levels or having ninety five percent of 557 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: our population vaccinated, if we don't keep that level high. Right, 558 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,080 Speaker 1: And even when you think about things like natural disasters 559 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: and the viruses and things like that that spring up 560 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 1: after that because of water born water borne pathogens can 561 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 1: take you out. Yeah. 562 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 2: So, like even there was a cyclone that hit Beta, Mozambique, 563 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,119 Speaker 2: and now people are trying to support the relief effort, 564 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 2: and one of the main things that people are talking 565 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:12,520 Speaker 2: about is medication because there's a lot of water. Everything 566 00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 2: is underwater, and so that's one of the things that 567 00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: folks are trying to do to support the people there. 568 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,440 Speaker 2: Same thing with Nebraska, right And in Nebraska, you know. 569 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 1: Something that we've gone back and forth about is whether 570 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,159 Speaker 1: to say, you know, what our position is. But I 571 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 1: think the only responsible thing is to say, like, the 572 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:32,399 Speaker 1: facts line up. The facts line up for me, and 573 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: that is that it's important to get vaccinated. 574 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:38,080 Speaker 2: Global citizenship is something that's really important and we should 575 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: all keep that in mind when we are making these decisions. 576 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:42,439 Speaker 1: We're not telling you what to do. We're saying what 577 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: we do. 578 00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 2: And I'm getting vaccinated because I am a citizen of 579 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 2: this world. 580 00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:00,800 Speaker 1: Thanks for hanging out with us in the lab today. 581 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: Don't forget to check out our website for a cheat sheet. 582 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: On today's episode, we're gonna include a lot of good 583 00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: info and some pretty charts and graphs for you too. 584 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 2: Also, we want to hear from you, and now we 585 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 2: have a phone number so you can call and leave 586 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,679 Speaker 2: us a message. For our next episode, we're going to 587 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 2: be taking a trip into the magical mythical kingdom of Wakanda. 588 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,119 Speaker 2: Are you excited about the new Avengers movie and the 589 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 2: Black Panther sequel? Do you know what vibranium is made of? 590 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 2: Our number is two zero two five six seven seven 591 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,120 Speaker 2: zero two eight. 592 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 1: That's two zero two five six seven seven zero two eight. 593 00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: Find us on Twitter and Instagram at Dope Last Podcast 594 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: t T is on Twitter at dr Underscore t SHO 595 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,679 Speaker 1: and you can find Zakiya at z said so. And 596 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,840 Speaker 1: if you do love the show, don't forget to follow 597 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 1: us on Spotify or wherever else you listen to podcasts. 598 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,919 Speaker 2: Special thanks to today's guest doctor, Polly LeMay. You can 599 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 2: learn more about her work in the show notes on 600 00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:53,920 Speaker 2: Dope lasspodcast dot com. 601 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,760 Speaker 1: Our producer is Jenny Rattletmask mixing and sound design by HANNS. 602 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,080 Speaker 2: Brown. Original theme music by tak Yasuzawa and Alex Sugiura. 603 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,560 Speaker 2: Additional music by Elijah Alex Harvey. 604 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 1: Dope Laps is brought to you by three M and 605 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: is a production of Spotify Studios and Mega Ohm Media Group, 606 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: and it's executive produced by us T. T. Shidia and 607 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:21,280 Speaker 1: Zakiyah Wattley. I had a friend who treated heel. He 608 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,560 Speaker 1: was a virologist. We were getting ready to go out 609 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 1: to eat and he said, did you get the flu 610 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: vaccine yet? And I said no. He said, oh, well 611 00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: then we can't go to dinner. I was like what, 612 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: And he walked with me to write aid to get 613 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: the flu vaccine and then we went to dinner. All right, Well, 614 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 1: that's a real friend.