WEBVTT - Being gracious, with Alison Cheperdak 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:09.280 Welcome to Before Breakfast, a production of iHeartRadio. Good Morning, 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:15.000 This is Laura. Welcome to the Before Breakfast podcast. Today's 0:00:15.040 --> 0:00:17.759 episode is going to be a slightly longer one part 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.080 of the series where I interview fascinating people about how 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:23.959 they take their days from great to awesome and any 0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:26.680 advice they have for the rest of us. So today 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:30.040 I am delighted to welcome Alison Shepherdak to Before Breakfast. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.760 Alison is the founder of Elevate Etiquette. She is the 0:00:33.800 --> 0:00:36.240 author of Was It Something I Said? 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:36.559 So? 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:38.120 Alison, welcome to the show. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.120 Thank you. I'm delighted to be here. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:43.479 I am so happy to have you as well. Why 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:45.599 don't you tell our listeners a little bit about yourself? 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:49.440 Thank you. My name is Alison Shepherd Ak and I'm 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:54.320 the founder of Elevate Etiquette, where I write and share 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:59.040 about etiquette for your life, work and love. I also 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:04.200 teach international protocol and executive presence. I'm a former attorney, 0:01:04.440 --> 0:01:07.640 former TV news reporter and anchor, and that's some of 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:11.000 the experience that I bring to my work today. Doing 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:14.360 a lot of content creation, speaking and writing. 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.040 Wonderful and I'm fuar very We're curious how one becomes 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.440 known as an elevator as an etiquette expert. I understand 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.800 you've had quite a varied career. I mean you were 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.800 like at the White House, you also were an ice dancer. 0:01:27.959 --> 0:01:30.360 I mean, we've really really been all over the map. 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.280 Oh, thank you. So it started when my husband and 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.360 I were engaged to be married, and I realized I 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:39.720 had all of these wedding etiquette questions that I didn't 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.240 know the answer to, like does every cousin get a 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:44.920 plus one? Or how do I address this envelope? And 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:47.680 so my mom suggested that I got that I get 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.840 my first etiquette BOK and I did, and I got 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.000 that book thinking that I would just flip to the 0:01:52.040 --> 0:01:54.840 pages that had the answers I was looking for. And 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.720 then I found myself reading that first book cover to cover. 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:01.080 And then I was working as an news reporter. I 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:03.880 ended up going to law school and practicing law, and 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.040 I kept learning about etiquette on my own time, reading 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:13.800 books about emotional intelligence and protocol and etiquette. And then 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.880 I decided to get a certification in British and North 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.800 American etiquette to teach it, not necessarily thinking that I 0:02:20.840 --> 0:02:23.720 would teach it, but it was something that I thought 0:02:23.720 --> 0:02:25.560 would be really enjoyable, and I saw it as like 0:02:25.600 --> 0:02:30.240 a non conventional personal growth opportunity for myself. And then 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:32.880 it was while I was in that program that I 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.960 was surrounded by other people with these thriving businesses around 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:39.920 the world and protocol and etiquette. So I saw that 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:43.840 as like proof of concept, and then I started posting 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.800 in social media and it resonated with an audience pretty 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:51.440 quickly to a point that I have confidence to keep. 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:55.720 Going wonderful wonderful. So I think a lot of people 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.680 have some misconceptions though about etiquette. I mean, I think 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:00.920 if you asked the average person and what is etiquette, 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:03.240 they would think it's you know which fork do I use? 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:07.959 And there's some element of that, But I think you 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.720 would say that it's more about one's soft skills. Is 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:12.320 that correct? 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:19.520 Absolutely? And there is an element to your point of knowing, 0:03:19.840 --> 0:03:22.560 like which is your bread plate and which is your 0:03:22.600 --> 0:03:27.760 water and how to navigate a formal dining scenario. But 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:30.320 that's not the point. The point is not to show 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.400 off that you know which fork to use in a 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.080 given scenario. It's to make it like muscle memory, like 0:03:36.120 --> 0:03:38.160 for athletes, like something that you don't need to think 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.560 about so that you can be confident and you can 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.920 focus on those moments that matter and the connection and 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:48.640 make what might not be you know, a very civilized 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.000 moment of eating what was once an animal or you know, 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:55.200 something like that, into a more pleasant, civilized experience. And 0:03:55.400 --> 0:04:00.000 yes's definitely most importantly about like kindness and honoring other people. 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:04.640 Well well, yeah, well we definitely want to honor other 0:04:04.680 --> 0:04:07.600 people and be kind and part of that is about 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.800 how we make conversations. I know in your book, was 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.720 it something I said you devote a section to better 0:04:15.000 --> 0:04:17.839 small talk? I wonder if you could give our listeners 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.640 some advice on how to make better small talk. 0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.320 Sure. So, with small talk, I recommend whether you're going 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:30.440 to high school reunion or you're just going about your 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.479 daily life, I recommend having some topics that you're ready 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:37.680 to talk about with pretty much anybody. The things that 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:42.480 I recommend staying away from are money, sex, politics, religion, 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:46.240 and health status. The sneaky one in there is health status, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.279 because sometimes you can be talking about your diet or 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:51.800 your exercise routine and it can almost come across as 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.920 like a religion or like you should be eating or 0:04:54.960 --> 0:04:58.520 exercising the way that I do. So that's a sneaky one, 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.960 but in general, the the idea here is not to 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.920 think about like what's impressive and what's going to make 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.800 me sound really smart. It's what's something that I'm genuinely 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:09.719 interested in that I can speak to for a little while. 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:12.039 But I also think that these other people that I'm 0:05:12.120 --> 0:05:15.960 speaking with are going to be interested in talking about too, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.800 So that leaves plenty of room for lots of things 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:25.320 like your hobbies, sports, anything you've read, listened to watch 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:34.880 recently that you enjoy, traditions, something you're looking forward to, music, performing, arts, food, restaurants, travel. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:38.120 The list keeps going and going, so just family friendly 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.119 things that you're comfortable talking about are great. 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:43.800 Do you have a favorite question you like to ask 0:05:43.839 --> 0:05:45.679 people in small talk situations? 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:48.839 So it depends on the crowd, but I like to 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.000 ask people how they've been spending their time lately, or 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:55.719 if I'm at a party, I like to ask people 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:59.080 how they know the host or what brings them there, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.039 or if you're ever feeling really stuck commenting or I 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:04.839 don't like the word stuck, but if you're ever feeling 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:07.680 like you don't know what to say next, commenting on 0:06:07.800 --> 0:06:11.679 things that you're experiencing together with other people. So whether 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.159 it's like the architecture or the flowers or the food 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:18.159 that are part of an experience, like at a wedding reception, 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.240 those are great to talk about too. 0:06:22.040 --> 0:06:25.480 And how does one politely exit a conversation. Let's say 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.920 you're at a cocktail party or networking event, and obviously 0:06:28.920 --> 0:06:31.480 you don't want to monopolize people's time and you want 0:06:31.480 --> 0:06:33.280 to talk to lots of people. What's a polite way 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:34.440 to exit a conversation? 0:06:34.720 --> 0:06:39.160 So to start, remember that when you go to a 0:06:39.200 --> 0:06:44.680 cocktail reception that your responsibility is not to talk to 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.119 the first person that you see for the whole rest 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.880 of the evening. But for some reason it can feel 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.800 rude or wrong to separate yourself. But feel empowered to 0:06:54.920 --> 0:06:57.920 know that that's not the goal or that's not the expectation. 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.560 Mixing and mingling is actually more polite as a guest, 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.640 and so know that and then be really present in 0:07:05.680 --> 0:07:10.720 the conversation. So use eye contact, be nodding, talking with 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.600 your hands, showing that you're paying attention. There should be 0:07:13.640 --> 0:07:16.400 a give and take, so you're asking some questions you're 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.400 answering some questions, it doesn't feel like a one sided interview, 0:07:19.840 --> 0:07:24.480 and then very clearly wrap it up. Clarity is kind, 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.040 ambiguity is not. And you certainly don't want to lie. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:30.760 So you don't want to say like I'm going to 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:33.160 run to the restroom and I'll be right back. I'm 0:07:33.200 --> 0:07:35.640 going to refill my drink. Can they get you anything 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:39.160 when you really have no intention of returning. Instead, say like, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:42.520 it was so wonderful to see you, I'll look forward 0:07:42.560 --> 0:07:44.360 to seeing you. I think we'll see you next week 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.760 at the graduation or something like that, or say I 0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:50.520 hope you enjoy the rest of this evening. It's great 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.240 when you can say I really enjoy talking to your 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.320 I'm so glad we could catch up, and then insert 0:07:55.360 --> 0:07:58.200 specific facts about what you talked about so, which shows 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:01.800 that you were paying attention. And then if you can, 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:04.520 you can introduce someone to someone else if maybe they 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:06.640 don't know as many people, and that can be a 0:08:06.680 --> 0:08:09.240 way to start a new conversation that you can then 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:11.440 step away from. But you don't need to do that. 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:13.920 Those are just some tools that you can use based 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:14.840 on the situation. 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:18.040 Excellent advice. Well, we're going to take a quick ad 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:28.560 break and then I'll be back with more from Alison Shepherdack. Well, 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:31.720 I am back talking with Alison Shepherdack, who's the author 0:08:31.760 --> 0:08:35.959 of Was It Something I Said? A sought after etiquette expert? 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:37.680 It's a little bit of a mouthful to say there. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:43.200 So let's talk a little bit about business meals. What 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:46.480 tends to go wrong in these situations? And I know 0:08:46.559 --> 0:08:48.720 a lot of people feel awkward, especially if they're new 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.880 in their careers. They're eating with people maybe from other 0:08:52.240 --> 0:08:55.640 organizations or different levels of their companies. What are some 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:57.840 tips for having a good experience here? 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:01.880 I would start with what to order. So if you 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.400 are having a business meal, if you're the one who 0:09:05.679 --> 0:09:08.440 is putting the bill, like let's say you're having a 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.680 client out to lunch, make sure that you're really clear 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.040 on the budget that you can allocate for this meal, 0:09:15.520 --> 0:09:18.560 and that you're not going to blow the budget if 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:22.160 the client happens to get something that's really expensive. If 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.480 you are the person who is trying to decide what 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:30.280 to have on a menu, generally getting something that's mid range, 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:34.320 so not necessarily like the wagou beef and cavia, but 0:09:34.400 --> 0:09:38.640 also not a salad as your entree. You know, at 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.800 a dinner kind of situation, middle of the road is best. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:48.040 You also want to be ordering things that are easy 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.400 to eat, so French onion soup might be a better 0:09:51.480 --> 0:09:55.959 meal for a date night than a job interview. And 0:09:56.280 --> 0:09:59.320 things that you don't need to eat with your hands 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:01.720 are better as often in a business meal you might 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.280 be shaking hands with folks, So that's something to keep 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:07.000 in mind. And you never want to come across as 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.719 though you're taking advantage of this opportunity to indulge on 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:13.319 you know. And this is the case whether it's a 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:15.800 business meal or any meal where you're not paying for 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:20.200 the mail yourself. You want to be really conscious of 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:23.000 that and also be prepared to think to talk about 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:26.960 things beyond work. And generally, if you are the one 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.360 who is being hosted, let your host be the first 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:34.000 one to bring up work. Sometimes it doesn't happen, and 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:36.480 you know the dessert is coming and you're wondering when 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.480 you're going to talk about the thing that you were 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:40.439 thinking you were going to talk about for work purposes. 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:43.360 But if you are the guest in a business context, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.360 it's nice to start with some of those like family 0:10:45.360 --> 0:10:47.880 friendly topics that we were talking about before that are 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:49.320 good small talk topics. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:52.640 I'm curious, is there any polite weight to eat a burger? 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.200 I mean, I wouldn't order a burger on a job interview, 0:10:55.360 --> 0:10:58.480 but is there any way to do it and look dignified? 0:10:59.679 --> 0:11:02.000 So you can cut it in half? And the internet 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.520 is definitely divided on no pun intended on this, but 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:08.600 if you cut a burger in half and then eat 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.200 it like a sandwich, it can be more manageable. 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.640 Okay, so things aren't falling out everywhere. You have a 0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:18.920 list in your book of things to say when someone 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.120 shares good news, some examples of things of ways you 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.400 can sort of nicely celebrate with someone, and maybe some 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.400 things to avoid. Can you talk about that with us? 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.240 Yes, thank you. So so often people can be really 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:37.040 excited to share something and then they can feel deflated 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:40.000 by the comments that they receive, even though that's not 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:44.760 the intention. So things that are not the best to 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:47.840 say when someone celebrating something are like what's next. Like 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:50.240 let's say they just publish a book or they just 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:52.280 you know, graduated, and it's like, well, what's next, And 0:11:52.320 --> 0:11:54.800 it's like, well, I'm just trying to enjoy this present 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.960 moment and this present success before I talk about the 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.120 next season, or saying something like better you than me, 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.840 or saying like are you sure you're ready for that 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:11.040 or anything that kind of inserts any sort of anxiety 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:15.000 about that next season. So instead saying something like how 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.680 are we celebrating? Or I'm so proud of you? Or 0:12:18.720 --> 0:12:21.080 you really work so hard for this, or it couldn't 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.920 have happened to a better person, or you know, I 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.200 can't like all of those kinds of things are much better. 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:30.240 And you also don't want to make someone else's exciting 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:31.400 news about you. 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:35.480 So making sure not to say, oh, that's great that 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:37.839 it happened to you, here's the thing that happened to me. 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:43.840 Right exactly, or like if someone maybe achieved something that 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:47.120 you once achieved, making it all about sharing your story 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.720 of your achievement instead of letting them be the star 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:51.720 in that moment. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:54.920 And the same idea of focusing on the other person 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:58.320 comes into when you're giving somebody a compliment. I loved 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.880 your advice on making sure that the compliment is about 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:05.800 them and it's not about you towards them. I can 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:07.880 can you explain a little bit about what that means. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:13.640 Yes, So instead of making the compliments seem like congratulations 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.280 in my opinion, you know you vook fabulous or you 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:22.240 did this so well, saying it more as like an 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:26.240 observation that's about them. So like instead of I think 0:13:26.320 --> 0:13:29.400 you look beautiful in the color blue, you look beautiful 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:33.720 in that color is something that's more about the other person. 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:36.560 All right, So a good way to give a better 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.760 compliment right there. You have some tips as well for 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:42.360 being a good host. So let's say I'm having some 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:44.400 people over to my house. What are some things I 0:13:44.440 --> 0:13:47.959 can do to extend that idea of etiquette being about 0:13:48.000 --> 0:13:51.560 kindness and putting people at ease into welcoming people into 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:51.959 my house. 0:13:52.880 --> 0:13:55.800 So first you want to be thinking of the guests. 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.000 So what are the questions that the guests will want 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:01.280 to know or how can you make them feel more comfortable? 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.400 So let them know like is this going to be 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.079 a dinner? Is it going to be or derv Should 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.640 they eat in advance? Will it be outside? Should they 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.640 plan to wear shoes that are good on the grass, 0:14:12.679 --> 0:14:17.240 those kinds of things, And then be thinking about your 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.000 guest lists and who you want to be introducing and 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:23.320 if you're going to do a seating arrangement, I really 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.760 like a seating arrangement, think about who you'd like to connect, 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:29.320 Like maybe put your more gregarious friend next to your 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.160 more shy friend. I really love a table that mixes 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:37.000 people of different ages. Inner generational tables can be wonderful. 0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:43.240 They encourage kids to use their good dining etiquette and 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.400 try different foods and have conversations that are maybe a 0:14:46.400 --> 0:14:51.160 little more sophisticated and they might otherwise and be willing 0:14:51.240 --> 0:14:53.240 to accept help. But know that you don't have to 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:57.640 ask your guests for dietary restrictions before they come over. 0:14:57.840 --> 0:15:00.800 You don't need to necessarily make something if it's going 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:04.720 to be very complicated. But always let any guest that 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.560 has a dietary restriction bring something that would meet their 0:15:07.600 --> 0:15:10.920 needs if you know you're serving something that isn't going 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:11.920 to be a good fit for them. 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:15.440 That kind of a thing and for guests, you also 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.720 talk about things that seem polite but aren't. I imagine 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.840 one of those is showing up too early, right. 0:15:22.760 --> 0:15:25.520 Yes, yes, showing up early is definitely a big one. 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.440 This is not a dentist appointment. You don't want to 0:15:27.480 --> 0:15:31.240 be showing up early to a bridal shower, because anyone 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.000 who's hosted anything knows that a lot of the magic 0:15:34.040 --> 0:15:38.600 happens in that final moment before the doors opened. Another 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.440 thing that people think is polite but actually isn't is 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.200 when a host says that you can get started or 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:46.880 you can help yourself in the buffet, not getting in 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.120 line because they're not starting because you don't want to 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:53.600 be the first one. You actually can do that because 0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.080 a host, if they've told you to get started, they 0:15:56.160 --> 0:15:58.120 mean it, and it probably means like they want everybody 0:15:58.160 --> 0:16:00.600 to enjoy the food while it's warm. Put all these 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:04.920 work into getting all these different dishes ready at the 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:07.480 right temperature at the right time, So don't be afraid 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:11.080 to do that. Another one is insisting on helping even 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:13.400 in the host says they're all set. If a host 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.160 says they're all set, that's fine. You don't need to 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.480 feel guilty about not helping get the appetizers ready. Another 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:25.320 one is cleaning up without asking a host their preferences. 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:28.440 So maybe you have a survival of the Fittest approach 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:33.080 to the dishwasher at home, but your host likes to 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:36.120 handwash some of the pieces from her grandmother or whatever 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:41.600 it is. Just ask before you assume and start cleaning 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:44.760 things or putting things away the way that you might 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:46.040 because it might not be the same. 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:50.640 Always thinking about what the other person would want. Well, 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:52.320 we're going to take one more quick ad break, and 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.360 when I come back, I'm going to hear about Allison's 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:56.440 time tracking, because it turns out that Allison is a 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:05.280 fan of time tracking as well. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:05.520 Well. 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.920 I am back talking with Alison Shepherdack, who is the 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:11.960 author of Was It Something I Said? And is also 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.199 an etiquette expert, and as it turns out, is a 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:18.080 long term time tracker. So, Allison, you started tracking your 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.320 time about the same time I did, over a decade ago, 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:21.920 is that right? 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:26.359 That's right. So I started. It was the summer before 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.240 I went to law school, and it was all inspired 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:31.800 by reading your book when it had first come out. 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:36.520 And I started I think in July or August of 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:43.080 twenty fifteen, and I've never stopped, and it's been so 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.840 helpful for me. I really admire your whole mindset and 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.919 outlook on time and how people are a good use 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.320 of time and how we often I think I had 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.959 a I didn't have a very I had a biased 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:03.120 view I think of how I spent my time until 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.640 I started to look at it on paper and realize 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:09.240 that as you write about we remember the extremes, but 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.440 if we have the data, we can be less biased 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:15.600 and our observations. 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:17.960 I'm curious, are you tracking on paper? I mean, or 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.520 what are you using an app? Excel? What are you 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.200 what's your time trying to I? 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.720 For a long time, I was not using it on paper, 0:18:27.280 --> 0:18:30.160 even though I kind of I do have some paper 0:18:30.320 --> 0:18:32.800 that I will use, Like I use paper for all 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.480 of my tasks throughout the day that need to get 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.800 done and so I manually cross them off. But for 0:18:38.960 --> 0:18:42.879 any sort of meeting or you know, I put everything 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.199 in there, like getting ready for the day and shower 0:18:45.200 --> 0:18:47.080 and like every everything is in there, and I have 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.920 that all digital. For me, it's easier because I can 0:18:51.960 --> 0:18:53.800 repeat them. I don't have to keep writing it down. 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.760 So that's why I like it to be digital. 0:18:56.280 --> 0:18:59.800 Excellent. And do you have a morning routine? I understand 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.800 that you have a morning routine. 0:19:02.840 --> 0:19:06.200 Yes, I do. So when I wake up, the first 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.800 thing I do is I listen to a podcast or 0:19:08.840 --> 0:19:11.600 a book, a like podcast like this one and I 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:15.200 empty the dishwasher because I always run the dishwasher last 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.919 thing before I go to bed, So I empty the 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:22.080 dishwasher and then I head to the gym, work out, 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:26.680 come home, and then make breakfast and read the news 0:19:26.800 --> 0:19:31.320 as I'm having breakfast and get myself oriented for the day. 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:33.920 What kind of workout do you like to do? Although 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.080 I understand maybe that's not the best question to ask, now, Oh. 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:41.680 It is perfectly okay. So I like to do solid core. 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.560 I usually do solid or three times a week, and 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:47.840 then I work with a personal trainer and do like 0:19:47.920 --> 0:19:50.480 heavy lifting three days a week. And then I try 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:51.879 to and I don't do this all in the morning, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.920 but at some point throughout every day, I aim to 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:56.760 get at least ten thousand steps. 0:19:57.880 --> 0:19:59.959 And what does a workday tend to look like for you? 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:05.119 A workday? For me, not every day is exactly the same. 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:09.880 And I have a very integrated approach to my work. 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.840 So I'm not like I only work from nine to five, 0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:14.840 and I'll be bothered to get an email past five. 0:20:15.359 --> 0:20:20.520 I typically like while I'm reading the news, I'm also, 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.520 you know, starting to look at emails in the morning, 0:20:23.600 --> 0:20:27.520 and I'm starting to get work done. I do different 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.760 types of work on different days, and it's not necessarily 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.720 the same every single week. Like I'll look at like, 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:39.000 so I if i have speaking engagement, I know I'll 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.840 be doing my hair and makeup for that, and so 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:42.840 I'm also going to shoot a lot of content that 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.600 day because I don't want to do my hair and 0:20:45.640 --> 0:20:50.639 makeup every day, and so I'm very efficient in that way. 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:53.560 And then I try to do more things like filling 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:57.359 out expense reports and admin type work and more logistical 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:01.040 things all in the same chunk of time. And I 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:05.760 generally plan out my weeks on a combination of Friday 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.879 and Saturday, so by Sunday I have the schedule pretty 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.200 much in place, so I know, like, these are the 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:13.439 days I'm going to do on camera work, these are 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.600 the days I'm going to do writing, these are the 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:19.239 days and you know, going to be traveling or have 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:23.160 less control over some logistics. So I don't know if 0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:26.600 that were the perfect answer to your question, but every 0:21:26.680 --> 0:21:28.919 day is a little bit different. But I have my 0:21:29.440 --> 0:21:32.640 like non negotiables for the day and my non negotiables 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.440 for the week, and I find a way to fit 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:34.800 them in. 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:38.480 Do you mean non negotiables, both professionally and personally. 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:44.520 Yes, yeah, so whether it's like so I have no 0:21:44.600 --> 0:21:49.119 negotiables professionally, especially on the daily in terms of the 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:51.680 amount of content that I put out. So I'm typically 0:21:51.720 --> 0:21:54.919 posting three times to Instagram and then I'm syndicating that 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:58.760 content to other social media platforms. And I have like 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.880 a certain number of subtack articles that I'm writing a week, 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:05.119 so I'm not necessarily writing them at the same time 0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:09.240 every single week, but I'm definitely getting them done. 0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.960 Got it, Got it? And since you travel a lot 0:22:12.040 --> 0:22:15.080