1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: the future of the show. 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. 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Let's turn down to the one big, beautiful bill. 15 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 3: That's the major tax legislation being pushed by Republicans through. 16 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 1: The House and the Senate. 17 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 3: There's been some pretty big developments there, but really it's 18 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 3: the political development of the future of medicaid, which is 19 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 3: the one that is just hanging like a noose around 20 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 3: the Republican's neck. You've got two sides, really, You've got 21 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:54,319 Speaker 3: President Trump and you've got Josh Holly and a few 22 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 3: other Republicans. We're saying we're not going to cut medicaid 23 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 3: we're not going to touch it. And then you've got 24 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 3: others like Senator Mitch McConnell who are like, yeah, people 25 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:03,280 Speaker 3: will get over it. And if you think I'm making 26 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 3: it up, let's put this up there on the screen. 27 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,199 Speaker 3: This is leaked from a direct meeting of the Senate Republicans. 28 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 3: Senator Tom Tillis warned GOP senators during a closed door 29 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: meeting that Senator Reconciliation Bill would prompt major electoral losses 30 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:21,479 Speaker 3: because similar to Obamacare. Tillis aired concerns with Senate's Senates 31 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,640 Speaker 3: Medicaid provider tax framework. The Majority leader John Thune defended it, 32 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 3: saying it's key component for their spending cuts. Separately, Mitch 33 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: McConnell said, quote, failure isn't an option. I know a 34 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: lot of us are hearing from people back home about Medicaid. 35 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 3: But they'll get over it. They'll get over. 36 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: It, Okay, lot, Yeah, I don't. 37 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 3: Think so actually, And you know, just to show that 38 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,559 Speaker 3: it's not just crazy people like Josh Holly or whatever 39 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: that are worried about this, let's put this up there 40 00:01:49,720 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 3: on the screen. 41 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: From Politico. 42 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 3: Even the Speaker Mike Johnson, who is not somewhat liberal, 43 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 3: like you know, is saying that Medicaid backlash could be 44 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 3: a serious problem for a lot of the House Republicans 45 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 3: and their majority next year. A lot of this just 46 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:08,360 Speaker 3: comes down to the fact that because they're not willing 47 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: to cut the Pentagon and because discretionary spending is just 48 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 3: not that big, like in terms of Doze or wherever. 49 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,720 Speaker 3: I think it's probably less than seven percent of the 50 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 3: federal budget, you've got to hit an entitlement program somewhere. 51 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 3: You can't touch Medicare, can't touch Social Security. So they're 52 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: going after at quote unquote reforms within Medicaid. But no 53 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 3: matter how which way slice it, it would lead to 54 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 3: less services. And that's of course where the spending cuts 55 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 3: are coming from, and that is one of the most 56 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: tangible ways which particularly lower middle class Americans and more 57 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,720 Speaker 3: interact with the federal government for spending. It would just 58 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,519 Speaker 3: be such a massive own goal, especially in the realm 59 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 3: of war with Iran and a trillion dollar Pentagon budget, 60 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 3: to show what the priorities are. Not to mention the 61 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 3: fact that extends many of those tax cuts from the TCJA, 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 3: which had lowered the taxes for the wealthiest income brackets. 63 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 3: There's also the salt provision, which continues to be battled 64 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,359 Speaker 3: out within there, but Medicaid is like the number one thing, 65 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 3: and actually outside of Iran, I think this one is 66 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 3: breaking through. This is one of those where it's like 67 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: the Social Security thing. It's a service that people use. 68 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 3: By the way, my Social Security card for my daughter 69 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 3: took forever to come, thank you Elon. Oh yeah, it's 70 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 3: like a tangible thing. I was like, where is the 71 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 3: damn card I needed to sign up for help insurance? 72 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 3: But just goes to show you these are things people 73 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: actually need to use all segments of society, and so 74 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,800 Speaker 3: that really, especially combined with a tax cut, it's just. 75 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: A brutal headline for the Republicans. 76 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: Brutally even came Jeffreys and Chuck Schumer can figure out. 77 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 4: How to message this. Yeah, that's right, you know, a 78 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 4: giant tax cut. 79 00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 2: You are losing your health care so that rich people 80 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 2: can get a tax cut. That's the promise of this bill. 81 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: And that's why some Republicans are wise enough to realize 82 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: this could be a political problem. I mean, I think 83 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: a lot of them realize. But remember, the vast majority 84 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 2: of the Republican caucus are incredibly safe seats, so they're 85 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: not worried about it. You have you know, the number 86 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: of swing states has like shrunk and shrunken trunks, so 87 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: you have a comparatively small number. And then they're terrified 88 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: of just getting crosswise from Trump with Trump because you know, 89 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,120 Speaker 2: they see what he's doing to Thomas Massey right now 90 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: in the way he's aggressively going after we didn't even 91 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 2: get a chance to cover this. 92 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 4: He set up an entire pack to. 93 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,279 Speaker 2: Spend money against Thomas Massey to try to defeat him 94 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: because of his you know, defines over a number of issues, 95 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: but including the you know, illegal strikes on Iran, illegal 96 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: war waged against Iran. So you know, they know what 97 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: happens when you get crosswise with Trump, and so they're fearful, 98 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,600 Speaker 2: even the ones who are in districts that are potentially 99 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,280 Speaker 2: winnabowled by a Democrat. 100 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and so let's go to the next one, please, 101 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: and just on the screen, just you underscore a lot 102 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 3: of this. This is D three and it shows all 103 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 3: of the polling. So this is from Fox News, by 104 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 3: the way, and that's why we picked it. So can 105 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,800 Speaker 3: you understand what's in the bill sixty percent of Ye, 106 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 3: that's actually a lot. I'm pretty shocked that people are 107 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 3: paying attention that much. But here's the most devastating one, 108 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 3: your opinion. Sixty percent say they oppose, thirty eight percent 109 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,880 Speaker 3: say that they favor for your family, the big beautiful 110 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,479 Speaker 3: bill will quote make no difference, twenty six percent, twenty 111 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 3: three percent help, forty nine percent say it will hurt. 112 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: It's not exactly true, just because outside of Medicaid, it's 113 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 3: mostly extending tax cuts that were already passed. That's why 114 00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: it's kind of funny seeing the Republican messaging. They're like, 115 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 3: if we don't do this, it will be a massive 116 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 3: tax hike. I'm like, well, no, it'll revert back to 117 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 3: the original tax of twenty sixteen. But what most people 118 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: don't actually pay them much attention to taxes. It's really 119 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,039 Speaker 3: about services that broadly is one of the ones that 120 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 3: we're watching. So for example, let's put guys D four 121 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 3: up on the screen. This is about the process that 122 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 3: has happened inside of the Senate, and that's broadly where 123 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 3: these Medicaid stuff has come into play, because a lot 124 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 3: of the spending cuts are coming from the program. President 125 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 3: Trump actually spoke with a reporter today saying he was 126 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 3: against that. But then on top of that, and I 127 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 3: know this sounds like very in the Wieze. What it 128 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 3: really matters is that just this morning, the Senate parliamentarian 129 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 3: has quote struck a whole bunch of critical health provisions 130 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: from the bill, including the provider tax framework. Effectively, what 131 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 3: that means is it screws with many of the ways 132 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 3: they were going to pay and fund their tax or 133 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 3: their tax extension and their spending cuts. And so what 134 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 3: that would mean is would increase the deficit score. Now, 135 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 3: if it increases the deficit score outside of the Senate bill, 136 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 3: that will then move to the House. We're already you 137 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: had a lot of Freedom Caucus Republicans bucking at the 138 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,760 Speaker 3: fact that the deficit was going to increase as a 139 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 3: result of this. So you got two kind of opposing 140 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 3: forces at work. And most importantly is that President Trump 141 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:54,160 Speaker 3: has said he does not want Congress. We can put 142 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: that D five please on the screen. President Trump has 143 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 3: said nobody's leaving Washington until the mega tax bill is done. 144 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: He wants to pass by July fourth. 145 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 3: This makes that a hell of a lot more difficult 146 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: because they just lost a lot of their pay fors. 147 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: They're going to be in parliamentary hell for the next 148 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: week now, basically, and what that means is that they're 149 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 3: going to have to scramble and find some other stuff 150 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,720 Speaker 3: to do that's going to run up against the House 151 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 3: Republicans in the Freedom caucuss and of course it just 152 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: makes not only is it more chaotic, but it's more 153 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 3: likely they're going to have to cut even deeper from 154 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 3: some other type of social program and find some other 155 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 3: way just to pay for tax cut, which people at 156 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 3: home are all paying attention to. 157 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 2: A couple other provisions that the Parliamentarian has said cannot 158 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: be included in this reconciliation bill that are noteworthy. Number One, 159 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: we had mentioned before and covered before the fact that 160 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 2: in the House version there was effectively a provision that 161 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: is meant to make it difficult or impossible for federal 162 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: courts to enforce contempt charges against the federal government. The 163 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: Parliamentarian has said you can't do that. The Senate had 164 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: a slightly modified version. It would have required plaintiffs to 165 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: post potentially enormous bonds when asking courts to issue preliminary 166 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: injunctions or impose temporary restraining orders against the federal government. 167 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 2: The House version had to do with contempt orders in 168 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: any case, she said, none of this can go in 169 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: this bill, so that is probably being stripped down. Another 170 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: couple that are really noteworthy. There was a provision that 171 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: would reduce the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau that's basically the 172 00:08:19,680 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: anti scam Bureau funding to zero. That also was deemed 173 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 2: to not qualify for reconciliation. And there was another proposal 174 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 2: that would put the Public Company Accounting Oversight Board, which 175 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 2: is the US audit watchdog, into the SEC that again 176 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: was deemed not eligible for the reconciliation process. So these 177 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 2: are some of these provisions. The Court one is actually 178 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: quite significant, and the CFPB one also very significant. So 179 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 2: the fact they won't make it into reconciliation matters a lot. 180 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 2: But also to Sager's point, you know, as they go 181 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 2: through all these things, there was also a piece they 182 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,119 Speaker 2: were trying to sell off all the US postal services 183 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 2: a new electric vehicle fleet and charging infrastructure, which I 184 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:00,439 Speaker 2: can't imagine they were going to make like that much 185 00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 2: money on it, but that was another one of their 186 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: pay for that also got that also got taken out 187 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: of the bill. So I'm sorry, you won't be able 188 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: to purchase one of the USPS electric. 189 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:11,959 Speaker 1: Take it for pennies on the dollar. That sounds pretty 190 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: fun actually roll around in the electric post office. 191 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 5: I mean. 192 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: One of the weirdest things is I actually love not 193 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 3: even just electric vehicles, but resto mod stuff like stuff 194 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: that's electric, like a golf cart, you know, and things 195 00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:23,640 Speaker 3: like that. 196 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 1: They're just fun to drive. 197 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 2: Like, be honest, at this point, a check relationship with 198 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 2: golf carts. 199 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: I don't blame you. 200 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: I don't blame you, but I enjoy him. I enjoy 201 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: seeing him around. Let's move on to Bernie, shall we. 202 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, so Bernie Sanders went back on with Joe Rogan. 203 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 4: I did. 204 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 2: Actually, I sort of skimmed through the whole conversation and 205 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 2: there was a long stretch that was interesting but kind 206 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: of you know, went on for a long time about 207 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 2: like AI and what do we do about this and 208 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 2: how do people find meanings? 209 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 4: So that was a lot of it. 210 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 2: Also, Bernie just doing his normal Bernie thing talking about 211 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 2: healthcare and the millionaires the billionaires was also a good 212 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:00,920 Speaker 2: part of it. There are a couple pieces that I 213 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 2: found pretty interesting. One of them is where Bernie is 214 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 2: talking about Connerson Massey and some of the some of 215 00:10:08,440 --> 00:10:11,679 Speaker 2: the attitude he's taken towards the Iran war in particular, 216 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:12,840 Speaker 2: and you get Joe's response to that. 217 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 4: So let's go ahead and take a listen to that. 218 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 6: I mentioned there's a guy named and knows firstly miss 219 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 6: the Massi is the name Thomas mass Toms from Kentucky. 220 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 6: And this guy, as I am, is opposed to this 221 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 6: war in Iran. Just yesterday, Trump gave a long post 222 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 6: about how they're going to primary this guy. And what 223 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 6: bothers me is you would hope that there would be 224 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 6: respect enough for members of Congress that you can vote 225 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 6: your own conscience. You could represent your constituency. Every district 226 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 6: is different than America. But right now, anybody stands up 227 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 6: and say, well, you know, I disagree with President Trump, 228 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,439 Speaker 6: bamp you off finished, We're going to primary you. We 229 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:52,400 Speaker 6: got all kinds of money. 230 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 5: You're out of there. That happened to Massi yesterday. 231 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 2: So I thought that was pretty interesting that coming up. 232 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: And you know Trump's attempt to punish Thomas, which we 233 00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: were just talking about, and Thomas Massiw's been peeking out 234 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 2: a lot about APAC and I think it's been really important. 235 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 3: He's also raised about million five in the last week, 236 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,319 Speaker 3: so mass he's crushing it right now. 237 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that his speaking out on 238 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 2: a pack in particular, coming from a Republican who has 239 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: a lot of credibility, you know, is certain he's an 240 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: ideological libertarian, but he has a lot of credibility with 241 00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 2: a pretty significant swath of the Republican Party, and for 242 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 2: him to be talking about the influence of this lobby 243 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,839 Speaker 2: and the way that it works, I think has been 244 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 2: really significant broken through to people like Joe Rogan and 245 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,079 Speaker 2: others where you know, I mean the left, we're always 246 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 2: talking about money in politics. Born He's always talking about 247 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 2: money and politics. It really does land a lot when 248 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 2: you have someone from the right who is making that 249 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 2: kind of a critique. 250 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 4: Yeah. 251 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 2: There was another moment here that I thought was interesting 252 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:48,680 Speaker 2: that I wanted to get your reaction to Sager where 253 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: Joe is talking about how he sees the divisions within 254 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,400 Speaker 2: MAGA right now again about war, and I run, let's 255 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 2: go ahead and take a list of that part. 256 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 7: I think the whole MAGA thing right now, I was 257 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 7: very divided, particularly because one of the things that they 258 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 7: voted for was no war. Well, now it seems like 259 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 7: we're in a war, right so, and it's quick. We're 260 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 7: six months in and that's already popped off. And then 261 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 7: people are very concerned with now what happens to our 262 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,200 Speaker 7: troops overseas they are in these bases that are in 263 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 7: vulnerable positions, and what happens with I mean, there's supposedly 264 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 7: documented paracels that got in through the open border over 265 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 7: the last four years. So what happens now in America, 266 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 7: what happens on American soil? 267 00:12:36,240 --> 00:12:38,720 Speaker 5: No, I'm mean I agree with those When a guy. 268 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 7: Like Thomas Massey steps up and says something, he's gonna 269 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 7: have a lot more support as well. 270 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 5: The d says yes. And my only point is he 271 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 5: has a right. 272 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 6: Yes, you know, somebody else says, hey, I think the 273 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 6: war is a great I thought, that's right, you got 274 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 6: to go back. 275 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 5: But what bothers me is that. 276 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 6: If anybody stands up the next day, we're going to primary. 277 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,320 Speaker 6: You're out of here, man, And that's the Republicans. Let 278 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 6: me talk about the Democrats for a moment, okay, And 279 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 6: I don't even know you have views on this, so 280 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 6: you may disagree with me, you know, Israel was attacked 281 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 6: by Ramas is a terrible terrorist organization. They killed twelve 282 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,839 Speaker 6: hundred people, which in a small country like Israel's a 283 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 6: lot of people. 284 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 5: Terrible, terrible attack. It's a war crime. Israel had a. 285 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 6: Right, in my view, to defend itself, but the Netagnyahu 286 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 6: government did not have a right to kill fifty two 287 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 6: thousand people in Gaza wound over well over one hundred thousand, 288 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 6: and right now as we speak, Joe, children are starving 289 00:13:37,840 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 6: to death because of Israel's Blockasier starving to death. And 290 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,440 Speaker 6: I brought forth two resolutions which basically were very simple, 291 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 6: and said no more US military aid to Israel under 292 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 6: these conditions. One vote got fifteen votes in the Senate 293 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:01,960 Speaker 6: that the other one got sixteen. Do you think that 294 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 6: members of the Senate do not know what's going on 295 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 6: in Gauza? The kids are sloving to death, the innocent 296 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 6: people being shot down right and left. 297 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 5: They know it. Why do you think I couldn't get 298 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 5: more votes? 299 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,200 Speaker 7: They wouldn't vote against Israel? 300 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,239 Speaker 5: Right, it's political suicide that now you're talking. 301 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 4: Right, all right? 302 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 6: So in the Republican side, you have moneyed insurant saying 303 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 6: you speak up against Trump, you're out here in the 304 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 6: Democratic side. You speak up against the new government, you're 305 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 6: out of here as well. And they have been successful. 306 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 6: You have super packs like APAC spending a fortune. You 307 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 6: stand and they already knocked off a number of members 308 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 6: of good members of Congress, and they will do it again. 309 00:14:40,520 --> 00:14:43,160 Speaker 6: So all I'm saying is, you got a corrupt campaign 310 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 6: finance system on both sides. 311 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:46,280 Speaker 4: So what do you think of that? 312 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: Well, that's what makes Burnie good at this right, is 313 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 3: that he's talking both about those sides, and he also 314 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: gets Joe to kind of agree with him. 315 00:14:53,280 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's funny. 316 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 3: This is where the analysis just always and I understand 317 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: why people do this, But the MAGA base is an 318 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 3: actual thing. 319 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: It's not just like something you talk about. 320 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 3: I'm talking about people who love Donald Trump and say 321 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,320 Speaker 3: that he is more important to them than the Republican Party. 322 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 3: That is not really the podcast audience really at all. 323 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:15,400 Speaker 3: Most of those people are boomers, rural, working class voters 324 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,800 Speaker 3: who mostly just like, don't vote for anything else than 325 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: they just love Trump. Now, outside of that is more 326 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: of what I would say is the MAHA base, And this. 327 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: Would probably be a more accurate way of talking about it. 328 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 3: Who are a lot more podcast aligned and who are 329 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 3: a lot more libertarian. Those are the people I put 330 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 3: Dave Smith into that category, maybe Candae Owens, probably Joe himself, 331 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: who were attracted to Trump for more of those element 332 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: Tulci Gabbard as well that if anybody's quote been betrayed, 333 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 3: I would say it's that segment of that audience. Now, 334 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 3: I'm not gonna sit here and claim that that's a 335 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 3: meaningful fifty or sixty percent or whatever of the Republican electorate, but. 336 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: It is a new part. 337 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: And it's also Look, when you win the popular vote, 338 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 3: you do so with a coalition. You have magas old 339 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,360 Speaker 3: They're never going to go anywhere. That's not the point. 340 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 3: MAGA is not ever going to go anywhere. The boomer 341 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,360 Speaker 3: Republicans are going to vote Republican no matter what the 342 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 3: way you win the popular vote. Always some really interesting 343 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 3: coalitional groups, Maha people, and also some of these more 344 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 3: anti war voters. You know, we were going to do 345 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 3: a segment before the Iran war end. 346 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: Ended whatever, at least paused for now about polling. 347 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 3: But you know, these anti war Muslims in Dearborn. It 348 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: was not nothing that put him over the edge. That's 349 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 3: how you win x amount of electoral votes. And so 350 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 3: I think we need to be more accurate in terms 351 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 3: of the type of voter who is out there. Again, 352 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 3: I would never claim that this is a huge percentage, 353 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 3: but it can be your margin of victory, and I 354 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 3: think we should start thinking about it in those terms. 355 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 2: To me, the way I've been talking about it is 356 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 2: the magabase versus independence. You know, independence, who swung to 357 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 2: Trump and that's what gives him this victory and gives 358 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 2: him the popular vote margin, et cetera. And I think 359 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: they're the ones who are up for grabs, and you know, 360 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: independence overall. If you're looking at the look at the polling, 361 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: people who don't identify as Republicans, don't identify Democrats, they 362 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 2: are not happy about the strikes. You know, the numbers 363 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 2: are significantly underwater. They're overwhelmingly underwater among Democrats, they are 364 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 2: significantly underwater among independents. Among Republicans, they all basically support him. 365 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: CBS did a to your point about like parsing that 366 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 2: the MAGA base. CBS did a poll separating out all 367 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 2: self described Republicans from self described MAGA Republicans and among 368 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,600 Speaker 2: all Republicans, the strikes were supported eighty five to fifteen, 369 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,960 Speaker 2: so still quite overwhelming among MAGA Republicans. Actually, the support 370 00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: is even higher. Ninety four percent of the MAGA Republican base. 371 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 4: Supported these strikes. 372 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 2: So the accuracy in the language is something that's been 373 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: bugging me too, because if you say the magabase is 374 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 2: divided like they're not, the magabase is ninety four percent 375 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 2: in favor of these air strikes. They shifted before Trump 376 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 2: did it. There was a little bit more descent, a 377 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 2: little bit more. Once he did it, they were all 378 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 2: on board. And that is what we've seen. You know, 379 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: there is not a core ideology here. The core commitment 380 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 2: is to Donald Trump and what he does, what he says, 381 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,159 Speaker 2: defines where MAGA is going to be. And that is 382 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 2: just reality that we've seen time and time and time 383 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 2: and time again. This is not the first time that 384 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,480 Speaker 2: Donald Trump has claimed he was going to go in 385 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,919 Speaker 2: one direction and then ultimately gone in the other direction. 386 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 2: And we've seen the MAGA base every single time find 387 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 2: a way to justify it. 388 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 4: Because Trump did it, ergo, it must ultimately be good. 389 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:32,640 Speaker 1: That's right. 390 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: Probably the most heated exchange over the course of The 391 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 2: interview came towards the end when Bernie seeks to bring 392 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 2: up some of Trump's authoritarian tactics and Joe starts to 393 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: get a little a little you know, it gets a 394 00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 2: little more contentious here where Bernie is specifically talking about 395 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,879 Speaker 2: some of the lawsuits and the attacks on free speech 396 00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 2: by Trump, some of the lawsuits that he has waged 397 00:18:56,119 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 2: against various media companies. Let's go ahead and take a 398 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,320 Speaker 2: listen this one on for a little while. But let's 399 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 2: go ahead and take a listen to a section of. 400 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 5: This and what I worry about Trump? 401 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 8: And is. 402 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 5: You're right? 403 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,679 Speaker 6: You know, I read it is astounding. Back in the 404 00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,399 Speaker 6: seventeen eighties when these guys wrote the Constitution, how perceptive they. 405 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 5: Were amazing, Yeah, I mean they. 406 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 7: Understanding of human desires and the power the corruption exactly 407 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 7: pretty amazing. 408 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,639 Speaker 6: And they wrote that having just fought a war and 409 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 6: won a war against the most powerful despot on earth, 410 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,320 Speaker 6: the King of England, right right, And I think in 411 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 6: the back of their minds was saying, all right, we 412 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 6: just beat the King of England absolute power. How do 413 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:42,680 Speaker 6: you create a new country which has checks and balance 414 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 6: so that nobody ever. 415 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 5: Has that power? Right? And I got to say. 416 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 6: I mean, one of the things that there's a lot 417 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,840 Speaker 6: of arguments about Trump that worries me very very much, 418 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 6: is this movement toward authoritarianism and going after media, suing media, 419 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 6: taking away the authority that Congress has. 420 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 7: When you say suing media, are you talking about the 421 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 7: CBS laws? But don't you think there's a real issue 422 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 7: with what they did. No, we don't think that there's 423 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:15,760 Speaker 7: a real issue in editing conversations to give someone an 424 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 7: answer I have different than what they really answered. 425 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 6: Joe, I've been on eight zillion shows right in my life? Okay, Okay, 426 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:25,760 Speaker 6: Now should I sue you? You asked me some sloopy 427 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 6: question that I don't like, right, or that you do something? 428 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 5: Shall I sue you? Yeah? 429 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:33,679 Speaker 7: But that's not what he's getting. 430 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 6: Well here sued He hassued ABC. He hassued Meta. He 431 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 6: issuing the Des Moines Register because of a poll that 432 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,360 Speaker 6: came out during the campaign that he didn't like. All right, 433 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 6: he issuing CBS for this Kamala Harris interview. 434 00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 5: So do I think. 435 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 6: How many I cannot tell you the number of stories 436 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,119 Speaker 6: done about me that were based that we're not good stories? Right, 437 00:20:57,240 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 6: that we're dishonest stories. That's what a free press is about. 438 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 6: You don't like it, you got to live with it. 439 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 2: So, you know, Bernie is sort of making the broader 440 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 2: point about the authoritarian tactics, and Joe is. 441 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 4: I mean, Joe's. 442 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,359 Speaker 2: Supposed to be a free speech guy, but then he's 443 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 2: down with these lawsuits. 444 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: I mean, I think the reason I understand is he's 445 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 3: probably deeply fed up with a lot of In fact, 446 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:20,800 Speaker 3: I find this with a lot of rich guys who 447 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 3: are like relatively well known as they get pissed about 448 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 3: the media, And I actually understand. 449 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,200 Speaker 1: But the point is, is that too. 450 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 3: Right, Like I've literally had lies written about me multiple times, 451 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 3: and it's like, well, you know, uh, that's part I 452 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,399 Speaker 3: think it's more useful to explain the principle. And I 453 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,639 Speaker 3: haven't listened fully to the interviews. I don't know if 454 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 3: Bernie gets to this, but the point of the way 455 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 3: that the standard is set currently is that you have 456 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: to be able to prove as a public figure their 457 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 3: will like their willful knowledge that they knew what they 458 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,239 Speaker 3: were saying was a lie at the time, and then 459 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 3: you have to be able to show a damage. Now, 460 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,199 Speaker 3: the reason why it's set that way is from New 461 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 3: York Times or was it New York Times versus Sullivan 462 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 3: case at the Supreme Court back in the nineteen seventies, 463 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 3: because we actually used to live in a much more 464 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 3: censorious press. And the way that that current legal doctrine 465 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: looks like is Britain, And in Britain they actually have 466 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 3: a much lower standard for the ability to sue over 467 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 3: defamation and libel, and in my opinion, I don't think 468 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,800 Speaker 3: that nearly an adversarial culture enough. You have much more 469 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:23,679 Speaker 3: of like the power veto of somebody coming in and 470 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,800 Speaker 3: saying no, that's not going to happen. And the reason 471 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 3: why I think that standard is important from a media 472 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,879 Speaker 3: person who works in this is it preserves the ability 473 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,040 Speaker 3: to report things that are off the cuff, on the 474 00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 3: fly first draft of history. Of course, there are going 475 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 3: to be errors. As long as you have an editorial 476 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,919 Speaker 3: process in place, and you can also demonstrate that what 477 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 3: you're trying to do is not willfully lie about somebody, 478 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 3: then it should be an extremely high standard to make 479 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 3: sure that you can disseminate. 480 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 1: That level of information. 481 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 3: And if that didn't exist, you genuinely would have just 482 00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 3: a lot less of people. Okay, let's create to a 483 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 3: great example, this Iran intelligence story. Right, the Trump administration 484 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: is saying that they're trying to libel these pilots. 485 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 1: You can see it's that's bullshit. That's not what's happening. 486 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:08,160 Speaker 6: Right. 487 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: They took facts and they reported it. 488 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: They're not willfully trying to a libel or defame the 489 00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 3: pilots or taking information and they're putting it out into 490 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,280 Speaker 3: the public. But people should know that prior to that 491 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 3: Solivan decision, and really to the Pentagon papers, that story 492 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 3: would never would have seen the light of day. You 493 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 3: and I would have no idea that that was actually 494 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 3: the case. Well, and I think we're better off. 495 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 2: Let's take that one step further because this gets to 496 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,879 Speaker 2: the next point, which is that what happened with ABC 497 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 2: News and with CBS is because they didn't want to 498 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:40,120 Speaker 2: get crosswise of the Trump administration, they didn't go forward 499 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: and fight. 500 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,240 Speaker 3: That's what those They could have taken it to trial 501 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: and they absolutely would have won they one, but. 502 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 2: They decided they would rather effectively pay a bribe to 503 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: exactly so that their business deals could go through. And 504 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 2: Bernie does get to this point, their business deals can 505 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 2: go through and they're not going to get messed with, 506 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 2: et cetera. 507 00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 4: And so even though. 508 00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 2: You know, when they're out there saying, oh, these the 509 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,400 Speaker 2: New York Times are whever is libeling these pilots, even 510 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 2: though that's obviously a bullshit and spurious claim. Because of 511 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 2: the track record of all of these media lawsuits and 512 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 2: the fact that these corporate entities are very willing to 513 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,600 Speaker 2: bend the knee and capitulate and pay the bribe rather 514 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 2: than have their business messed with, it does it does 515 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: act as an effective check on the press because they 516 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: have that hanging over their head. We saw the way 517 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: that sixty minutes the fallout over there and their desire, 518 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 2: the leadership's desire there for them not to go too 519 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,239 Speaker 2: far in terms of their Trump criticism so that they 520 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 2: wouldn't their larger business entity wouldn't get crosswise with them. 521 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 2: And so that's the point that Bernie is trying to make. 522 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,760 Speaker 2: And you know, on the specifics of like the CBS 523 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 2: News I think was the one where there was an 524 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 2: edit of Kamala Harris that like made Kamala look better. 525 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 2: I mean, you can criticize the dur like as we did, yes, 526 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 2: but also news outlets edit interviews all the. 527 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: Time, right, not us. 528 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 2: Just so Fox News, I'm not gonna say we've never 529 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: edited an interview, like I don't know. 530 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 1: If I'm not sure it's ever. 531 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 4: I don't know if we have. 532 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 2: But like, theoretically you could have mented, you know, the 533 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 2: okay that question like didn't we don't have time whatever? 534 00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 2: But Fox News edited that interview with Trump, yes, where 535 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,200 Speaker 2: to make his Epstein answer look better? Like Shakamala sue 536 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 2: Fox News over storing the election because they hid from 537 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 2: the audience the fact that Trump gave a really poor 538 00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:27,359 Speaker 2: answer on Jeffrey Epstein that actually raised a lot of questions. No, 539 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: she should complain about it, fine, But the idea you 540 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:33,800 Speaker 2: should sue them or any other news outlet that edits 541 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 2: an interview a way that you don't find to be 542 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,679 Speaker 2: advantageous for you or you find to be advantageous for 543 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: your opponent, that is ridiculous. I mean, it is completely absurd. 544 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 2: But again, the broader piece here is part and parcel 545 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 2: of this, you know, series of authoritarian tactics that are 546 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 2: used to force media organizations to trim their sales, to 547 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 2: not critique as much. Should be afraid of these lawsuits 548 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: to pay tribute to the king goes with the universe. 549 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 2: The proach to universities goes the approach to law firms, 550 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,359 Speaker 2: and you know, is sort of like part and parcel 551 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 2: of this project. And that is really the important point 552 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 2: to make here versus even getting into the nitty gurty. 553 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 2: I mean the detail, sure they matter, but getting into 554 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 2: the nitty gritty of the lawsuits isn't really the point. 555 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 2: It's that bigger picture that is what really matters. 556 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 3: I don't disagree, but I also think that part of 557 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: the problem this is actually I mean, I think Trump 558 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 3: is you know, what he does is he takes everything 559 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 3: to the nth degree. But the truth is is that 560 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 3: government has always used its leverage over these massive corporations 561 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 3: to influence media. And what we can see, like for example, 562 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 3: let's take CBS. 563 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,359 Speaker 1: CBS is owned. 564 00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 3: By Paramount Right and Paramount is now being sold to 565 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 3: sky Dance. Well see Sherry Redstone, who was the head 566 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: of Paramount, who is by the way, massive pro zionist 567 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 3: jew That's part of the reason she's interfering in CBS 568 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 3: sixty minutes, and also because she wants her merger to 569 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 3: go through, which is like Paramount studios in Hollywood. Yeah, 570 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 3: thus is trying to placate Trump over here. That's, by 571 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,280 Speaker 3: the way, is again this is not just Trump. This 572 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,520 Speaker 3: is the tail as old as time. The Bush administration 573 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:08,960 Speaker 3: did this on a rat coverage back in the mid 574 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 3: two thousands. They've we've seen significant pressure in the past. 575 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,400 Speaker 3: For example, I read Jack Welch's book, or a book 576 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 3: about Jack Welch, and he would never sell CNBC because 577 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 3: he was like, you don't understand. CNBC cost me x 578 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 3: amount of money, but its value to General Electric as 579 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,679 Speaker 3: a company because of the ability to manipulate the stock 580 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,000 Speaker 3: market and to influence all policy discussion is immense. Bloomberg 581 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:37,560 Speaker 3: same thing. Bloomberg Terminal owns Bloomberg News. So really, I 582 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,120 Speaker 3: think it's also a story of like corporate consolidation control 583 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 3: over media because of course the government and presidents and 584 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,919 Speaker 3: that will use their leverage on those organizations. 585 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: We've seen it threatened in the past. 586 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 3: Mixon famously as well, would threaten their businesses and their 587 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 3: permits and all these other things. 588 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:54,480 Speaker 1: That won't be able to go through. 589 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 3: It's part of the reason why you know, with the 590 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,440 Speaker 3: Internet and more independent models, it actually you genuinely can 591 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 3: get a little bit more freedom. But yeah, I mean, 592 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 3: it's such a big story that it is important. Yeah, 593 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 3: people don't understand that. 594 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 4: I just I was that's all accurate. 595 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,800 Speaker 2: I've never seen a president sue a media company overall 596 00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:11,639 Speaker 2: pole they didn't like. 597 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 3: But that's Trump is like Trump just goes all out. Okay, 598 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 3: I want to say full something else, but I'll save it. 599 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 3: But like, that's that's what he does. But I'm just 600 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,199 Speaker 3: he's less subtle about it. I guess I'm only just 601 00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,800 Speaker 3: contextualizing it in that so that people should understand that. 602 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 3: You know, I mean remember when Bernie what did he 603 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 3: say on the campaign trail about Washington Post? 604 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, and he was a who's that own? He's a 605 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:37,720 Speaker 1: who's that owned by? Something like that? And everyone freaked 606 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: out at him. 607 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 3: But it's just so obvious now, you know, the way 608 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 3: that this all and the way that they use their 609 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 3: media companies as tools for their broader empire. Bezos yesterday 610 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 3: rolled out a new policy where sources who disagree with 611 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: the way a story was framed are able to email 612 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:54,479 Speaker 3: in their comments about a story. 613 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, why do you think he did that? 614 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 3: Okay, all right, let's let's let's wonder a little bit 615 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 3: about why these things. 616 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 2: Well, here's what I would say is different, and then 617 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,600 Speaker 2: we can get to the liver King story, which also 618 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 2: directly involves Shrogan and also involves us. Potentially what Trump 619 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 2: has made has done differently with his administration. I did 620 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: a long monologue about this previously. 621 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 4: Is there is. 622 00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,320 Speaker 2: No longer even the appearance or clean claim or pretensive neutrality. 623 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 2: Everyone knows if you get crosswise with Trump, he will 624 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 2: get the DOJ after you. 625 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 4: He will pull your funding. 626 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 2: And whether it's Department of Education, whether it's your federal 627 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 2: you know, emergency, whatever it is, it is not. 628 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,800 Speaker 4: There is no pretext of neutrality. It's versa. 629 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 2: You're so, you're completely accurate about that. So previously, I 630 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 2: remember in the Obama administration, is big scandal that you know, 631 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 2: allegedly there were tax statuses being revoked by the I R. 632 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:49,600 Speaker 2: S in a political manner. This is a giant scandal. Okay, 633 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 2: this would go unremarked upon. I don't even know there'd 634 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 2: be a news article about it. But like it's it's 635 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: just that woman's name is Lowest Learner lowis it is 636 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 2: so that is what has truly been transformed about the 637 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 2: government under Trump is everyone expects that every single aspect, 638 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 2: every agency, every agency had every lever that they can 639 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 2: use against you, they will. And so that means that, 640 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 2: you know, if Trump threatens to sue you, that carries 641 00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: a lot of power. If they're going out, if they're 642 00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:23,320 Speaker 2: university that they're going after, if it's a state they're 643 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,360 Speaker 2: going after, it contains even more power. 644 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,240 Speaker 4: Not that it hasn't always been. 645 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:29,960 Speaker 2: You know, the federal government has always had a lot 646 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: of power, but now there's not even a pretense of 647 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 2: neutrality whatsoever. So they can go after and it is 648 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 2: barely even a scandal that they're doing it in a 649 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 2: politically motivated way. So that's what I think is, you know, 650 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:47,120 Speaker 2: has that's what the rubicon Trump has truly crossed, and 651 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 2: you know, a way in which he has truly changed 652 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 2: the nature of the relationship that people expect from the 653 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:57,680 Speaker 2: federal government vis a vis the citizens and civil societies. 654 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't really disagree with any of that. Let's 655 00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 3: get over to Liver King, shall we? 656 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,040 Speaker 1: Yes? 657 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,239 Speaker 3: Again, just to bring it full circle, because we were 658 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 3: in the Liver King documentary and this also involves Joe 659 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 3: Rogan and it's a fun story to end on. After 660 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 3: an insane couple of weeks, liver King has found himself 661 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 3: under arrest in the city of Austin. Let's go ahead 662 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: and put some of that video up there on the 663 00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:31,200 Speaker 3: screen after issuing quote terroristic threats against Joe Rogan, I 664 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,840 Speaker 3: mean liver King. His real name is Brian Johnson, as 665 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 3: revealed in the documentary and as he often would talk 666 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 3: about on his social media platform. And let's be honest, 667 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: this guy has totally lost it. He appears, he looks terrible. 668 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 3: Who knows exactly what's going on with him, whether he's 669 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 3: on something or whether he's withdrawing from the steroids that 670 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 3: he admitted to taking after lying to everybody about not 671 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,720 Speaker 3: taking steroids. But the point actually as a sociological phenomenon 672 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 3: is important to see because, I mean, liver King is 673 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,440 Speaker 3: a bullshit artist. I mean, this is a guy who 674 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,960 Speaker 3: again lied about taking steroids, sold I think it was 675 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:10,280 Speaker 3: like one hundred million dollars or something like that in supplements. 676 00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,720 Speaker 3: He pulled off a bunch of stunts to popularize the 677 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,960 Speaker 3: carnivore diet. Fine, but really was like selling a vision 678 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:18,480 Speaker 3: and lifestyle a centered around a body, which is just 679 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 3: fundamentally he was lying about and everybody kind of knew 680 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 3: he was lying, but the proof eventually being released by 681 00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 3: my friend Derek over at More Plates, More Dates, just 682 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 3: really revealed him to be a total fraud and he 683 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,640 Speaker 3: tried to have his whole redemption arc. But I mean, 684 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 3: what this just like demonstrates is also, you know, so 685 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 3: many people were looking. 686 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: Up to Liver King at that time. 687 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 3: It's important to remember, you know that a huge part 688 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 3: of his audience was like teenage males who weren't really 689 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 3: able to discern a lot of this, And so, you know, 690 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 3: in the hopes of being able to show people what 691 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:55,320 Speaker 3: the downside of frankly unhinged, you know, lying personality of 692 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 3: somebody who's willing to perpetrate you know, first of all, 693 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:01,120 Speaker 3: like this massive attention grab, all this ridiculous shit that 694 00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 3: he was doing, but also look at the downside of this, 695 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 3: you know, like he's literally melting down on his Instagram 696 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:13,160 Speaker 3: page now being arrested by the police and is obviously unhinged, 697 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 3: Like he looks terrible. 698 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,200 Speaker 1: I genuinely hope he gets the help that he needs. 699 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 4: He needs to be committed his wife and his kids. 700 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 1: Like you guys need to step up here. 701 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 3: Man because this is a crash out of epic proportions, Like, yeah, 702 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,840 Speaker 3: take control because this is this is not good. 703 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:28,360 Speaker 1: You know whatever, I'll tell you. 704 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 2: I watched the documentary last night about him that Sager's 705 00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: monologue like builds to a crescendo and it wraps up 706 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,200 Speaker 2: with Sager's monologue. Also, my voice is briefly in it 707 00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,840 Speaker 2: as well. From our last our Joe Rogan appearance, I 708 00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 2: forgot that we talked about too, and Joe's like, yeah, 709 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 2: I knew he was a fraudunum like, oh, just based 710 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:46,960 Speaker 2: on how he looks. So in any case, we you know, 711 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: we've been following it. He was obviously not on my readers. 712 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 2: I wasn't really the key demographic that they were going after. 713 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,720 Speaker 2: But what jumps out in the documentaries, First of all, 714 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:56,560 Speaker 2: you feel terrible for these boys. 715 00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,200 Speaker 1: His I do I use his props to basically sell. 716 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 2: And all this weird shit he has them do. I mean, 717 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,640 Speaker 2: I've felt I feel bad for those kids. I think 718 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: we need to get like child influenced, like parents using 719 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,320 Speaker 2: kids as influencers. There needs to be laws and regulation 720 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: around this because it is sickening. It really, It's a 721 00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 2: huge industry and it's grotesque, and you know so first 722 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,080 Speaker 2: and foremost you feel bad for these kids. Secondly, you 723 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,040 Speaker 2: are wondering what is the like the wife is just 724 00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 2: going along with all of this, like what is happening? 725 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 2: And then third was it was so disturbing to me 726 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,479 Speaker 2: that this is someone who so many young men looked 727 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 2: up to as a role model when this person is 728 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 2: the polar opposite of who. 729 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,439 Speaker 4: A role model should be. 730 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 2: I mean, now he's had the full mental break, but 731 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 2: this was not a well person. And obviously his whole 732 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,400 Speaker 2: thing is built on a lie. He is a con artist. 733 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 2: It is complete fraud. I mean, I think a lot 734 00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,880 Speaker 2: of his Ora joint and story too is probably a fraud, 735 00:34:57,920 --> 00:34:58,919 Speaker 2: which involved his kids. 736 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 1: By the ways, you. 737 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: Can't take any of this for granted now, because his 738 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: big selling point was I look like this because of 739 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:09,919 Speaker 2: these nine ancestral principles or whatever tenant and yeah, nine 740 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:14,719 Speaker 2: ancestral tenants. And that was all total and complete bullshit. 741 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 2: And it wasn't like he just didn't answer the question. 742 00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:22,879 Speaker 2: Multiple podcasts you'd go on and they'd say, oh, absolutely not. No, 743 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:24,799 Speaker 2: I know, people can't believe I love when I get 744 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:26,960 Speaker 2: this question, but no, it's all natural and you need 745 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,880 Speaker 2: to stop limiting yourself and believing that this isn't possible 746 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 2: for you too. Blah blah blah. So this is a 747 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:35,880 Speaker 2: con artist, charlatan, a fraud, someone who is clearly like 748 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:40,680 Speaker 2: deeply insecure and in some sort of mental anxiety, anguish, 749 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 2: et cetera, and becomes an icon and a role. 750 00:35:43,520 --> 00:35:44,960 Speaker 4: Model for millions. 751 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it does bring you back to the point 752 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: of like we have to do some self reflection about 753 00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:52,960 Speaker 2: what state young men are in that this would be 754 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,440 Speaker 2: appealing to them, and so many people will gravitate to 755 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 2: such an obvious charlatan. So that was the piece for me. 756 00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,400 Speaker 2: And you know, I've watched a bunch of the videos 757 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:07,160 Speaker 2: of him, just like hunting Joe Rogan throughout Austin, and 758 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:12,040 Speaker 2: I think effectively like he has in his mental collapse, 759 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,360 Speaker 2: fixated like a stalker on Rogan as the source of 760 00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: his downfall because Joe had said, you know, several things 761 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:19,320 Speaker 2: about him. 762 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 3: He was the most prominent person to be like that 763 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:22,040 Speaker 3: guy's a liar. 764 00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:24,879 Speaker 2: Before it even officially came out. And then he had 765 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 2: Derek on the podcast to go through all of the 766 00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 2: like you know, total evidence, like the you know, the 767 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,600 Speaker 2: leaked emails and everything that just proved that he absolutely 768 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,320 Speaker 2: was a fraud and a liar. And so it seems 769 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 2: like this guy is completely fixated on Joe. 770 00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 4: He's hunting him. 771 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,280 Speaker 2: He shows up in Austin, he's making these direct threats, 772 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 2: and he's carrying around this briefcase that has Joe's like 773 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,920 Speaker 2: the Joe Rogan Experience logo, which includes his face of 774 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:52,359 Speaker 2: course on it, and at one point he opens it 775 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 2: briefly and if you do like freeze frame of what's 776 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 2: inside of it, there's at least one gun in there. 777 00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:01,160 Speaker 4: Yeah, and he's saying. 778 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,439 Speaker 2: You know all, he's saying he wants to fight him, 779 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:06,479 Speaker 2: and he's coming after him and all of these sorts 780 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:08,880 Speaker 2: of things. So I think that's what probably led to 781 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,160 Speaker 2: them feeling like, Okay, we've got enough that we've got 782 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:11,960 Speaker 2: to arrest this guy. 783 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 4: But yeah, he no, I'm actually get glad. 784 00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:15,759 Speaker 3: I'm glad that they arrested him, because you can't just 785 00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 3: be rolling around threatening people with guns. Oh social media. 786 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:20,800 Speaker 3: I mean, look, we have some video of this. I 787 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:21,880 Speaker 3: much play it for you. 788 00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,960 Speaker 1: You got to do me. This guy's lost it. Okay, 789 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: let's let's watch. 790 00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,520 Speaker 8: Because Joe Rogan we don't have to make videos to 791 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:35,600 Speaker 8: pretend anymore. All of this is happening. We're coming to you. 792 00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:40,320 Speaker 8: I've challenged you man to man to a fight, honorable, 793 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,680 Speaker 8: and we don't have to pretend or make any videos. 794 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 8: The world is watching. They'll make the videos for us. 795 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,040 Speaker 8: And you don't have to hold a camera. You can 796 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:52,560 Speaker 8: hold the hand of somebody that you love. Because what 797 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:54,680 Speaker 8: happens next to you, you're going to need to remember 798 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,480 Speaker 8: that feeling. You're going to need something more than what 799 00:37:56,600 --> 00:38:00,279 Speaker 8: you did to give you something to fight for, because 800 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 8: I have my family to fight for. So what warriors 801 00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:06,000 Speaker 8: do you? And Andrew Tate are good warrior, good warriors, 802 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,360 Speaker 8: but you're actually better than that real tension. We have comedy. 803 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,520 Speaker 8: Comedy that you do is good and true. 804 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:17,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's creepy, man, I mean beyond creepy, it's terrifying, honestly, 805 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,359 Speaker 3: So I'm glad that they pressed charges because this type 806 00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,719 Speaker 3: of behavior is just ridiculous. And yeah, honestly, we all 807 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,759 Speaker 3: hope Brian, not the liver King, gets the help that 808 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:26,360 Speaker 3: he deserves. 809 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, look at those pupils. One is like 810 00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:31,279 Speaker 2: triple the size of the other. There's a lot going 811 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,399 Speaker 2: on there and yeah he needs he needs mental help. 812 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 2: That's very clear. And frankly, like the kids are one thing. 813 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 2: Like you know, I don't know what age they are 814 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 2: at this point, but this is their dad, et cetera. 815 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 2: But shame on his wife and his handlers and whoever's 816 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,600 Speaker 2: getting paid by him whatever for letting it get to this, 817 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,160 Speaker 2: letting it get to this point. Letting it get to 818 00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 2: this point is just absolutely. 819 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: It's sad, all right. 820 00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 3: Maybe they can play this in the follow up documentary. 821 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,359 Speaker 3: This is can be volume the liver King Down, shall 822 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 3: we Right, it's been a great week. Thank you all 823 00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 3: so much. There'll be a great Friday show for everybody tomorrow, 824 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:17,080 Speaker 3: but otherwise we will see you all next week.