Speaker 1: Either everybody. In this episode, Robank and I reveal that
Speaker 1: we have been in couples counseling with two licensed therapists
Speaker 1: the past year and it hasn't cost us a dime. Also,
Speaker 1: whatever you think is the problem in your relationship, it's
Speaker 1: not really the problem. We're going to tell you what
Speaker 1: your problem is. And also, one of the foremost and
Speaker 1: visible relationship experts in the country does not believe you
Speaker 1: can fall in love. And with that, everybody, welcome to
Speaker 1: this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Falling in love?
Speaker 1: You with it, you're not with You believe it's possible.
Speaker 2: I think you can fall in lust and then you grow.
Speaker 1: In love, growing love, but not fall in love.
Speaker 2: I think you fallen lust. I think that's true, and
Speaker 2: I think I think love comes with time and with
Speaker 2: really knowing someone. You don't really I don't think you
Speaker 2: can really love someone until you truly know someone and
Speaker 2: accept all of their faults so you can come with them.
Speaker 1: So I assume love at first sight is not something.
Speaker 3: You think is possible.
Speaker 2: I think it's lust at first sight.
Speaker 1: Okay, what is this is my fault? I set myself
Speaker 1: up every time I was talking to you about fall
Speaker 1: in love. You go back to this lust thing, and
Speaker 1: I have to hear about all this lustful relationship pastry
Speaker 1: you've had, you did it last time. Yeah, I've been
Speaker 1: in a lust of lot. Y'all remember, right, they're laughing,
Speaker 1: they remember. But it's fascinating to hear that everybody. I think,
Speaker 1: generally speaking, you hear so many people talk about I
Speaker 1: fell in love and then I fell in love a
Speaker 1: couple of times, or I've been in love a few times,
Speaker 1: but that a relationship expert doesn't believe that's the case
Speaker 1: is fascinating to hear, and we're talking about it. We've
Speaker 1: talked about it a lot on this on our podcast.
Speaker 1: Some of the shows we've been watching, and some of
Speaker 1: them we were initially wanted to be kind of dismissed.
Speaker 1: I stay dismissive in that a ninety day fiance or
Speaker 1: merit at first sight, like this is silly, that'll never work,
Speaker 1: this is just for entertainment purposes. But you and I
Speaker 1: have sat and watched these shows and went, wow, we
Speaker 1: are learning in watching how people communicate.
Speaker 2: Right, Because yes, of course it's entertaining. But what you're seeing,
Speaker 2: I believe, are people who are desperate to want to
Speaker 2: be together, but don't necessarily know as I think we
Speaker 2: can all put ourselves in this situation. We don't know
Speaker 2: how best to communicate with each other, to commiserate, to
Speaker 2: support each other. We just our egos get in the way.
Speaker 2: And it's easy to see it in other people and
Speaker 2: much harder to acknowledge it in yourself. But sometimes when
Speaker 2: we're watching these shows, I'm like, oh, oh, I do that,
Speaker 2: you know, and you actually get some self reflection by
Speaker 2: seeing other people put themselves out there. And it's easier
Speaker 2: to witness it first than someone else and then maybe
Speaker 2: hopefully acknowledge it in yourself.
Speaker 1: But we watch it sometimes we see I'll see the
Speaker 1: guy saying something in a certain way to his wife
Speaker 1: and uncle and see it that way. But it is
Speaker 1: I think there is incredible value now in the show.
Speaker 1: I would have been dismissive ahead of time, but now
Speaker 1: that I've watched, they wonderful experiments in relationships and communication,
Speaker 1: which is always key. Now, I said, you and I
Speaker 1: have been in in couples counseling the past year, but
Speaker 1: our counselors don't realize they were counseling us all. One
Speaker 1: of them was the guy we had on the show,
Speaker 1: good friend of ours, Jeff Guardier, doctor Guardia America Psychologists.
Speaker 1: But we had him on to talk about I don't
Speaker 1: even remember the first time, and it turns into a
Speaker 1: session for you and I to talk about our relationship.
Speaker 2: We started asking questions, he started giving us advice, and
Speaker 2: we thought, wait, what's happening. I think we're having a
Speaker 2: therapy session right now. And it worked, and I think
Speaker 2: a lot of people got a lot of really good
Speaker 2: actionable information from it.
Speaker 1: And doctor Guardia, you can keep sending those invoices if
Speaker 1: you want, but yeah, we're probably not gonna respond. But
Speaker 1: the other person that's been giving us counseling, who had
Speaker 1: no idea probably until this moment, is God by the
Speaker 1: name of Pastor cow now Pastor cal you all know
Speaker 1: because the show has been wildly popular. Here is one
Speaker 1: of the experts. It's the therapist on married at for
Speaker 1: a site, which has been around now for seventeen seasons.
Speaker 1: I think this is two thousand and oh help me
Speaker 1: with the year, but it's been around two thousand and
Speaker 1: four I think was first launched, maybe, but almost twenty years, yes,
Speaker 1: and all these seasons. But we have watched I think
Speaker 1: we really love him. Doctor Pepper is on there as well,
Speaker 1: Pepper Schwartz. Yeah, you don't know, but to hear to
Speaker 1: see how they counsel and sometimes are hard on these
Speaker 1: people on this show to some tough love, like you
Speaker 1: got to stop doing that. And it's been fun to watch.
Speaker 1: And he is one that we loved, loved watching.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Pastor cal actually and funny. I looked him up
Speaker 2: today and saw that he's got some Michigan roots, and
Speaker 2: that actually made a lot of sense to me because
Speaker 2: some of the things he says I hear from my
Speaker 2: Michigan parents. Love is a decision was one of the
Speaker 2: biggest things my mom had always preached, and I never
Speaker 2: really understood it. It didn't really click for me until
Speaker 2: much much later in life. But I heard Pastor kel
Speaker 2: saying the very same thing, and I get it now.
Speaker 2: It's it's the hard times that you choose to love
Speaker 2: so one even when you don't like them in the
Speaker 2: moment maybe, And those are the moments where you're choosing
Speaker 2: to love someone and to put what they need ahead
Speaker 2: of what you want. And to me, that's when it
Speaker 2: it's the hardest. But when you get on the other
Speaker 2: side of it. That's where the beauty is.
Speaker 1: Okay, But Pastor cow As we bring you in here, now,
Speaker 1: what is wrong with all of us? And I'll raise
Speaker 1: my hand here as well. You heard what she just said, Pastor,
Speaker 1: call that folks think that you have that love is
Speaker 1: not well? How'd you just put it? That your mom
Speaker 1: is always.
Speaker 2: It's it's a decision, is not a feeling.
Speaker 1: It's a decision, okay, But what is wrong with any
Speaker 1: of us having this romanticized idea of He's shaking his
Speaker 1: head already. Come on, Pastor, cal this a romanticized idea
Speaker 1: of being able to actually fall in love and that
Speaker 1: being a real thing. Are we do we need to
Speaker 1: get away from that?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean, hey, why it's good to be with
Speaker 3: you guys. Good to see you again, te j. So look,
Speaker 3: here's what's so cool and it's so interesting about love
Speaker 3: and about this whole thing, is that, you know, I
Speaker 3: think that the idea of falling in love is a
Speaker 3: Western idea. It's one that we in America and in
Speaker 3: the West, we really rally to that idea of falling falling,
Speaker 3: falling in love. Roughly about seventy percent or so marriages
Speaker 3: worldwide are arranged. These are marriages that have nothing to
Speaker 3: do with with your feeling. They have to do with
Speaker 3: coming together because you're joining legacies, you're joining families, you're
Speaker 3: joining purposes, and then you learn to grow in love
Speaker 3: after that. Those are and incidentally, those relationships, those marriages
Speaker 3: have over a ninety percent success rate where people grow
Speaker 3: in love. So, yeah, the Western idea of romantic sizing
Speaker 3: and oh my god, you so fine, man, I gotta
Speaker 3: be with you, you know, just like you said, Amy,
Speaker 3: it's you're falling in lust. You know, it's it's something
Speaker 3: that we've gotten so accustomed to. But I believe that
Speaker 3: every time you fall in anything, you get hurt because
Speaker 3: you have no control over it. And the notion that
Speaker 3: you have no control over, over, over over this thing
Speaker 3: that I'm just I just tripped. It's just out there
Speaker 3: somewhere and I just tripped it. Oops, I'm in. It
Speaker 3: is ludicrous that you fall into it. I have no
Speaker 3: control over it. It just happens to me without any
Speaker 3: kind of without my input. It just happened. Now, choosing
Speaker 3: to love says, hey, look there's something in you. I
Speaker 3: see a value. I'm making a conscious decision to fulfill
Speaker 3: your legitimate needs, and that decision is going to be there,
Speaker 3: That commitment is going to be there irrespective of how
Speaker 3: I feel, irrespective of what I feel good about you
Speaker 3: today and I don't feel good about you tomorrow, I'm
Speaker 3: going to be there.
Speaker 4: Wow.
Speaker 2: So what what is what is that?
Speaker 3: You know?
Speaker 2: What is the I'm curious though, because that seems tough
Speaker 2: and hard to do and all of those things. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's easy to say and really hard to do in
Speaker 2: the moment. What is your best case for getting married?
Speaker 2: What's the value in getting married? Why not just being
Speaker 2: lost and go from person to person to person and
Speaker 2: just seek that feeling that dopamine hit. What is the
Speaker 2: case for marriage that you would make to people the
Speaker 2: case for marriage?
Speaker 3: That is such a great question. You know, I believe
Speaker 3: the marriage is honestly one of the building blocks of
Speaker 3: a stable society. And I don't want to get you know, philosophical,
Speaker 3: but I believe it is. I believe that, you know, marriages,
Speaker 3: you start with marriage, then you have family, then families
Speaker 3: build communities, then communities build cities, and cities build countries.
Speaker 3: I believe the marriage is at the foundation. So when
Speaker 3: people really start poopooing on marriage and say, you know,
Speaker 3: you don't have to get married or whatever whatever. I
Speaker 3: don't buy it. I don't buy it because I know
Speaker 3: people who've been together forever. Well, I don't see. I
Speaker 3: don't feel it's just a piece of paper, and they
Speaker 3: can say that crap. I'm sorry. Can I just be
Speaker 3: honest with yes? Please, they can say that crap. That
Speaker 3: is just a piece of paper. I feel someone all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, you know, doesn't want to be with
Speaker 3: him anymore, you know, then all of a sudden they
Speaker 3: wish that paper was there because that paper is actually
Speaker 3: it brings legitimacy to it.
Speaker 1: Okay, but please, you said bring legitimacy, but it's almost
Speaker 1: it just makes it harder to break up. Robot and
Speaker 1: I were talking about this not too terribly long ago,
Speaker 1: and the Goldie Hawn Kurt Russell example. She always uses.
Speaker 1: They have chosen to be together all this time and
Speaker 1: never went down to a courthouse. And that's fine, but
Speaker 1: there was some value or something more beautiful about someone. Right,
Speaker 1: do you do you cage the bird or do you
Speaker 1: give them the option to fly every day? And then
Speaker 1: they keep coming back to you that argument? So please
Speaker 1: help explain in all seriousness. Why that piece of pap
Speaker 1: per still is so important.
Speaker 3: Well, I believe that the piece of paper is important
Speaker 3: because you know, there there is a there's a saying
Speaker 3: which says, you know that the things that I'll just
Speaker 3: tell you, I'm a pastor, so I'm going to give
Speaker 3: you a text. It says, give to Caesar the things
Speaker 3: that belonged to Caesar and the God and things that
Speaker 3: belong to God. And here's what it means. It means simply,
Speaker 3: the legal laws of the land should prevail when they can,
Speaker 3: and you should give credence to those when you can.
Speaker 3: And your moral convictions, your moral convictions and the things
Speaker 3: that you do morally, Okay, you have to consider that
Speaker 3: as well. So they have so. So the piece of
Speaker 3: paper is a is a is a thing that you
Speaker 3: give to Caesar. The piece of paper is a It
Speaker 3: is a way that people that the states recognize, the
Speaker 3: cities recognize, the countries recognize that you're actually legally connected
Speaker 3: to that person. I often believe that people don't want
Speaker 3: to get married. They don't want the piece of paper
Speaker 3: because they don't want that legal connection. I talked to
Speaker 3: somebody recently who they've been together for fifteen years and
Speaker 3: he refuses to marry her, and she said, well, if
Speaker 3: it was up to me, we'd be married. And he's like, well, yeah,
Speaker 3: but I'm just scared because I had a marriage before
Speaker 3: and it failed, YadA YadA and all that. I'm like, dude,
Speaker 3: you're not ready to give up your assets.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a lot of people would say that's legit pastical.
Speaker 3: You already, I mean, come on, but real commitment says
Speaker 3: all that I have is yours and all that you
Speaker 3: have is mine, and the legality of marriage ensures that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you know that he or she is
Speaker 2: the one? Do you believe that there's that that light
Speaker 2: bulb like the one? I'm curious.
Speaker 3: I don't you know what? Amy, I don't Okay, this
Speaker 3: is not okay? Is there one?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: No? I don't believe in though one. Okay, I believe
Speaker 3: that there are a number of people that you could
Speaker 3: possibly be happy with. It comes down to choosing. If
Speaker 3: you believe that there is only the one, what happens
Speaker 3: to that one? If God forbid, something happens to them
Speaker 3: and they are in an accident before you meet them,
Speaker 3: or if they're born in Afghanistan or any kind of
Speaker 3: things that would happen. I mean, what happens if you
Speaker 3: never meet that one, then you're just destined to be
Speaker 3: alone because you're not the one. No grown ups make
Speaker 3: choices to love. We find people who are compatible, who
Speaker 3: share our values, who have even if our values are
Speaker 3: different different, they are compatibly different. The differences are compatible.
Speaker 3: You're an extrovert, I'm an introvert. We balance each other out,
Speaker 3: you know, or whatever those values are regardless, you know
Speaker 3: where those people. When we find those people, we make decisions.
Speaker 3: You know, this person is worth me giving myself to.
Speaker 3: I'm making a decision to legitimately commit myself to them,
Speaker 3: for better or for worse, for Richard, for poor, sickness
Speaker 3: and in health, but seeking all others and financial you know,
Speaker 3: on no matter what happens till death to us part.
Speaker 3: That is the commitment. And you make that with your mind,
Speaker 3: not with your heart. The heart follows, but the mind
Speaker 3: begins to g.
Speaker 1: Pastica ell on that point. And I think everybody's we
Speaker 1: didn't really explain what meritive first sight is. I think
Speaker 1: everybody knows what if you're not aware. The show essentially,
Speaker 1: as people meet at the altar, they don't know each
Speaker 1: other's name, they don't know anything but the experts. Essentially,
Speaker 1: you all go through and try to find people who
Speaker 1: are compatible. They meet at the altar, and then the
Speaker 1: marriage goes on and they have I think a couple
Speaker 1: of months to decide whether or not they can continue the
Speaker 1: marriage or get a DIVORCEE Okay, So here's the thing
Speaker 1: Robot just asked you about making the case for marriage.
Speaker 1: Can you make the case for divorce? Because you all
Speaker 1: on the show so often say you're not giving enough time,
Speaker 1: you're quitting too early. You can make this work if
Speaker 1: you want to. So given that it seems like there's
Speaker 1: rarely could be and I'm not talking about extreme cases
Speaker 1: of abuse or something like that in the house. That's different,
Speaker 1: but can't what case can there be for getting divorced? If,
Speaker 1: like you said, if your mind, if you're committed to it,
Speaker 1: you can do.
Speaker 3: It, you know, And that's a great, great question. I'm
Speaker 3: not the guy. My wife and I when we sit
Speaker 3: down with couples and talk with him, we're not the
Speaker 3: people who will say, you know what, just sticking there,
Speaker 3: no matter what, you can make it. You'll make it,
Speaker 3: you know, no matter what's going on just hanging it.
Speaker 3: That's not us. If there's emotional abuse, I mean, it's
Speaker 3: severe emotional abuse. And if the person is just completely
Speaker 3: just intractable, that person will not change, okay, and that
Speaker 3: person is just going to be a butthole. I mean,
Speaker 3: it's just the way they are. And you're suffering emotional abuse.
Speaker 3: If your children are abusive, if they're drug abuse, and
Speaker 3: you decide to divorce, that's your call. That's completely your call.
Speaker 3: And I have even told couples, I've told individuals rather
Speaker 3: that it's will end couples. I've said, you know what,
Speaker 3: it's important at this point that you consider whether or
Speaker 3: not this marriage is worth saving, because in my opinion,
Speaker 3: it's not. It's not. So I do believe that there
Speaker 3: are some instances where it's now and the religious community
Speaker 3: is going to eat me up for this, and personally,
Speaker 3: I don't care, Okay, for the fact, I really don't.
Speaker 3: For the fact is. The fact is, I'm a realist.
Speaker 3: I'm a realist, and even in the.
Speaker 5: Religious community, and I know this is not a religious show,
Speaker 5: but even the religious community, I can find instance after
Speaker 5: the instance throughout scripture where people have divorced and gotten remarried, divorce,
Speaker 5: got remarried because.
Speaker 3: I believe that, you know, the ideal situation is the
Speaker 3: marry one person that stayed with him forever. That's the
Speaker 3: ideal situation where doesn't always happen. No, I'm a second time.
Speaker 3: I was. I was married once before. My wife and
Speaker 3: I we both second time. You know, the first when
Speaker 3: we were young, we were dumb, we had no knowledge,
Speaker 3: we knew nothing of what we were doing. We made
Speaker 3: very bad decisions, incredibly bad decisions. All we stuck with
Speaker 3: those decisions until we die. Well, you know, circumstances made
Speaker 3: it so that we could not stick with those decisions,
Speaker 3: and so we got we divorced, and then we found
Speaker 3: each other. And I believe we did a good job
Speaker 3: in finding each other and making that decision to love.
Speaker 3: But I do think that, you know it, marriage can
Speaker 3: be difficult, but you know, there are some situations we're leaving.
Speaker 3: Each of them might be the answer.
Speaker 2: I mean, I actually had therapists in both of my
Speaker 2: marriages tell me that that it was not savable, So
Speaker 2: you know, I mean, it's you know, I've gotten that advice,
Speaker 2: and it did feel good to at least feel like
Speaker 2: a professional agreed with the situation. Can I ask you
Speaker 2: a question, a personal question, pastor cal you, what has
Speaker 2: been the biggest challenge in your marriage?
Speaker 3: That's good. That's good, as Tej's. That's good, Robot. Probably
Speaker 3: the biggest challenge in my marriage and our marriage. We're
Speaker 3: a blended family. I had two children from a previous marriage.
Speaker 3: My wife came in with our incredible daughter. I had
Speaker 3: two boys and still do have two boys. They all
Speaker 3: live here now. We consider ourselves one family. We've gone
Speaker 3: through a lot of changes, a lot of trials and
Speaker 3: what have you. But I think that raising kids in
Speaker 3: a blended family has been our biggest challene. So I
Speaker 3: think anything that Wynnie and I has gone, we've gone
Speaker 3: through that we have been able to overcome it. We've
Speaker 3: we've had arguments, yes, we've had some money ones, you know,
Speaker 3: and we we understood something that we've never done. We've
Speaker 3: never mentioned the D word. We don't even bring it up,
Speaker 3: even no matter how bad it gets. And it's it's
Speaker 3: different because we both got married, we're a little older.
Speaker 3: You know, we've gone through stuff before. You know, we
Speaker 3: we knew the real deal and we knew that once
Speaker 3: we got married. Okay, fine, this is it forever And
Speaker 3: we've stuck to that. But I think the biggest challenge
Speaker 3: has been raising children. And for me, my kids were
Speaker 3: a little older, you know, a teenager and one in
Speaker 3: his late teens and one in as mid early teens.
Speaker 3: And then raising those kids with us having different parenting
Speaker 3: styles and just making that whole thing work has been
Speaker 3: a pain in okay, But we're at a point now
Speaker 3: where all that hard work and all that difficulty is
Speaker 3: paying off and we're like, hey, you know, we actually
Speaker 3: getting along now. Everybody's great. You know, I think everybody
Speaker 3: loved me, so it's it's a good thing now. But man,
Speaker 3: it was tough.
Speaker 1: We we can relate. We got to the other side
Speaker 1: of that not too terribly long ago, in the in
Speaker 1: recent months, so we know what that feels like. And
Speaker 1: like you're saying that that was the biggest challenge, But
Speaker 1: something else you've you've always said, no matter what do
Speaker 1: you think your problem is in your relationship, whether that's finances,
Speaker 1: whether that's fidelity, whether that's blended fans, whatever, you said,
Speaker 1: that's not the problem. The problem is how you're communicating
Speaker 1: about that problem. So it's still even with your case,
Speaker 1: would you say It's still all about communication, oh man.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, there is nothing to people cannot overcome if
Speaker 3: they're willing to be vulnerable and talk about it, listen
Speaker 3: to each other's opinions, relent, give up when you know
Speaker 3: you're wrong, Okay, give in and understand that even if
Speaker 3: you're right, you have to extend grace and those two
Speaker 3: people can then come together and find a solution. I
Speaker 3: believe that. And it's and I'm glad you said that
Speaker 3: because you know I wrote about that in my book
Speaker 3: right there, in case you didn't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, marriage a for punks, right.
Speaker 3: I believe that how you communicate about it, it is
Speaker 3: absolutely it's vital to your success. With my wife and I,
Speaker 3: how we communicate about our dislike and I mean that
Speaker 3: our dislike of our children. And that's tough, that's tough,
Speaker 3: but you will me be straight. Let's be straight.
Speaker 1: We get it. We get it.
Speaker 3: We love our kids. I can say without question that
Speaker 3: when they absolutely loves my sons, and I absolutely love
Speaker 3: our daughter, I mean her daughter, our daughter, my son,
Speaker 3: our sons. I think we absolutely But do we always
Speaker 3: like them?
Speaker 2: The look on his face right now says no, no.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, not absolutely not. But how we communicate to each other,
Speaker 3: and it will open and honest about expressing that and
Speaker 3: not taking offense at it. You know, even though it
Speaker 3: might be a little offensive, we don't take offense at it,
Speaker 3: not really. You know. We'll listen and we'll say, you
Speaker 3: know what, I don't really like her right now. I
Speaker 3: really don't like him right now. You know why, We'll
Speaker 3: tell me about it, and we talk about it. We're
Speaker 3: willing because at the root of everything we're discussing, we
Speaker 3: know that we want our marriage and our family to work.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious. This is always a big question people ask,
Speaker 2: chemistry or compatibility. Do you have to have chemistry? Do
Speaker 2: you have to have compatibility to make a marriage work?
Speaker 3: You know what, I think that first of all, we
Speaker 3: have to define chemistry because we believe I think quite
Speaker 3: often it's almost like the falling in love concept. We
Speaker 3: look at chemistry as an ethereal thing that floats out there,
Speaker 3: and you know, we'll walk into the midst of it
Speaker 3: and booth, there it is. You know, we connect. You know,
Speaker 3: the cupid has slung its arrow and stuck through both
Speaker 3: of us, and hey, we got chemistry. You know, I
Speaker 3: believe chemistry can be created. Do you remember in high
Speaker 3: school MIDB and middles scho I don't know when it
Speaker 3: was for me, but when we did science experiments and
Speaker 3: you put baking soda and vinegar, I think, and it
Speaker 3: makes the volcano.
Speaker 1: You're creating.
Speaker 3: You're creating chemistry, right, You're taking two ingredients, putting them
Speaker 3: together and you're making an explosion. It's the same thing
Speaker 3: in a relationship. I've seen it over and over again.
Speaker 3: People say, we don't love each other, we don't have
Speaker 3: chemistry anymore. But if you do the things that are
Speaker 3: necessary for chemistry to be there, then the chemistry will return.
Speaker 3: But when you stop doing those things, it will lead.
Speaker 3: But it's totally based on what you create.
Speaker 1: What are the things pastical?
Speaker 3: What are the things that you do for instance, And
Speaker 3: I'm so glad you asked that. Here's some of the
Speaker 3: things you can do to create chemistry, for instance, kindness.
Speaker 3: You know, what are you actually doing? You'll notice that
Speaker 3: one of the first thing that happens if there's a
Speaker 3: disagreement or an argument is that you stop touching. Okay,
Speaker 3: you go to the east side, you go to the
Speaker 3: west side, north or south. I mean, the hell are
Speaker 3: you sleeping? But you know you you separate each other,
Speaker 3: keeping touch, keeping constant touch is a way of reminding
Speaker 3: yourselves that we want to be together. Doctor Pepperah, I'll
Speaker 3: give her credit for this. She always talked about it
Speaker 3: with our couples. She says, when you're arguing whole hands
Speaker 3: and it's so difficult, it's very difficult.
Speaker 1: I agree that difficult.
Speaker 3: But when you add rechet, because one person is going
Speaker 3: to pull away and all of it is gonna be like,
Speaker 3: I don't want to touch you. What are you crazy?
Speaker 3: She's gonna cut me. No. But but you have to.
Speaker 3: You have to do those things that people in love
Speaker 3: do if you want to be in love. It's almost
Speaker 3: like you have to touch. Okay, you have to do
Speaker 3: kind gestures. I made up in my mind early on
Speaker 3: in our marriage. But there are some things that I'm
Speaker 3: always going to do for my wife, irrespective of how
Speaker 3: I feel. I will always open the door for her,
Speaker 3: no matter where, no matter what. I now might open
Speaker 3: it and then when she gets in, I'll slam it,
Speaker 3: but I'll open it. Get it in the car. No,
Speaker 3: but I know, seriously, I'll open the door for her
Speaker 3: all the time. I'm always going to try to be
Speaker 3: kind to her. I'm always going to try to run
Speaker 3: to her aid and she does the same thing to me.
Speaker 3: It's not one sided, you know, irrespectable, what's going on?
Speaker 3: You know, I like, I like maybe okay, I'm telling
Speaker 3: you I'm a business now. Sometimes you know, she she
Speaker 3: started this ritual when I went to bed. When we'd
Speaker 3: go to bed, right before we go go to sleep,
Speaker 3: she'll go to the bathroom and warm a handcloth or
Speaker 3: a wash cloth or whatever, and she'd get a nice
Speaker 3: and warm and hot and come and just wipe my
Speaker 3: face with it before Man, it's awesome. So she just
Speaker 3: wipe my face he's down, you know, before we go
Speaker 3: to sleep. And it's so tough to do all the time.
Speaker 3: Sometimes she might forget, but she does that and that's
Speaker 3: so appreciative. But even when we're not feeling good about
Speaker 3: each other, you do those kindnesses, You do those things.
Speaker 3: Those are the things that you do when you are
Speaker 3: feeling good about each other. Just try push through your
Speaker 3: negativity and do those things when you're not feeling about
Speaker 3: good about each other, and you'll see the chemistry start
Speaker 3: to return. It'll it'll start to return because your brain
Speaker 3: always leads your heart.
Speaker 2: Follows, Yeah, it's funny sometimes if we've had a tense
Speaker 2: day and we hold hands a lot. But sometimes if
Speaker 2: we're not even talking that much. Like sometimes when we
Speaker 2: do that, you'll just squeeze my hand and like we
Speaker 2: don't even have to say anything. It's just that nonverbal
Speaker 2: communications like okay, all right, we're gonna we're gonna be okay,
Speaker 2: you know what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3: We do that all the time too. My wife, she's
Speaker 3: standing here now, put your hand. She's laughing.
Speaker 1: She's waiting to smack you and case you in case
Speaker 1: you speak out a turn about this marriage.
Speaker 3: You know. But yeah, but I I love I love marriage.
Speaker 3: I love marriage even when it's bad. It's it's not terrible.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're with the person that you know
Speaker 3: has your back. I tell for quite often that it's like,
Speaker 3: you know, your your mate is there two to be
Speaker 3: a witness to your life. You know, because this is
Speaker 3: the person who sees all the insignificant things that no
Speaker 3: one else sees. He or she. They they care about
Speaker 3: things that no one else would ever care about. You know,
Speaker 3: you you change a habit, you do something different. You know,
Speaker 3: you you have some insignificant concern that nobody gives up
Speaker 3: fart about excuse me. But what happens is that she cares.
Speaker 3: You know, he pays a Oh you've changed your hair.
Speaker 3: Oh this is different. Oh that's different. All that stuff
Speaker 3: is someone being a witness to your existence, a witness
Speaker 3: that you matter, and that there's none better than that.
Speaker 1: Pastic how I helped folks with I think something so key.
Speaker 1: When you were talking about how communication was so important.
Speaker 1: You said, yes, communication, But then in the next word
Speaker 1: or two you said vulnerability. You said you have to
Speaker 1: be vulnerable in the midst of that communication. And I
Speaker 1: think that is probably a place where people do struggle.
Speaker 1: Everybody listening has had some argument in a relationship and
Speaker 1: that moment has come up in communication and you're not
Speaker 1: willing to be vulnerable. Sometimes it's ego and say, well,
Speaker 1: you're not going to be vulnerable. I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be hurt by putting myself out there. Will you help
Speaker 1: folks for a moment with that part? How do you
Speaker 1: make sure you train yourself to be vulnerable even if
Speaker 1: you might not be getting that in return immediately, and
Speaker 1: you don't feel safe with the person necessarily emotionally at least,
Speaker 1: And I.
Speaker 3: Think that's it. I think you just you just made
Speaker 3: you just said a key word, they're safe. I think
Speaker 3: that vulnerability requires understanding and the idea of of a
Speaker 3: wife being vulnerable to her husband, or a husband being
Speaker 3: vulnerable to is his wife. It's it's easier to be
Speaker 3: that way when you feel like that person understands you,
Speaker 3: and that word understands means that you actually stand under you,
Speaker 3: actually are there. You're there as a soft place for
Speaker 3: that person to land. You know you're standing under you
Speaker 3: understand me. And so it's like, you know, if if
Speaker 3: if I'm being vulnerable to you, and if I'm giving
Speaker 3: you something personal about me or I'm saying something to you,
Speaker 3: I need to know that you're standing under me and
Speaker 3: you're making my words my life. Who all that I am?
Speaker 3: You're giving me that safe place to land. And I
Speaker 3: think that's so tough for people. So I understand when
Speaker 3: people are not vulnerable. I understand when they when they
Speaker 3: when they when they recoil, when they pull back. Who
Speaker 3: wants to expose himself to someone who's going to hurt them.
Speaker 3: We have an exercise that we give couples called naked Moments,
Speaker 3: and you know you can do without what you will
Speaker 3: in your mind. But it's called naked need to give
Speaker 3: and naked moments is sort of a catchphrase that that
Speaker 3: we use whenever you need to have a completely open,
Speaker 3: honest and vulnerable conversation. And even after we'ven married all
Speaker 3: these years, we still do this. We say, you know,
Speaker 3: I need a naked moment. And when you say that,
Speaker 3: a person's you know it's it's almost like a safe word,
Speaker 3: and you know the light should go on. It means
Speaker 3: you put down your phone, you get away from the TV,
Speaker 3: you get away from anything distracting, and you lock in
Speaker 3: and listen to your partner. Now you're going to listen
Speaker 3: without distraction. You're going to listen not for reasons to retort.
Speaker 3: You're not listening for rebuttal You're listening for understanding because
Speaker 3: it is an incredibly important moment. You have an opportunity
Speaker 3: for this person to reveal themselves to you. Now, in
Speaker 3: revealing yourself to a person, you have to understand that
Speaker 3: the listener or the receiver, the ones who's hearing this,
Speaker 3: that the one who's giving it, the sharer, that persons
Speaker 3: giving you a weapon. And it's because all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: if I'm telling you about me, and I'm telling you
Speaker 3: about how I feel. All my nerves are exposed. I'm here,
Speaker 3: I'm open, I've ripped open everything. I'm right here in
Speaker 3: front of you, and I'm giving you everything. That is
Speaker 3: a powerful weapon for the listener to have, and you
Speaker 3: can either use that weapon to hurt him or hurt
Speaker 3: her with it, or you can use that weapon to
Speaker 3: protect them. And the more you use that weapon to protect,
Speaker 3: the easier it will become for that person to be
Speaker 3: vulnerable in the future. So it takes time and consistency.
Speaker 3: If you want your mate to be vulnerable with you,
Speaker 3: you have to understand them. You have to give them
Speaker 3: a soft place to land over a period of time
Speaker 3: where they become comfortable. And it's not a matter of
Speaker 3: you know people, I mean I this generation just annoys
Speaker 3: me sometimes because it's like when a guy is doing that,
Speaker 3: they're calling him a simp or or or I don't know,
Speaker 3: if you haven't heard that term before, it's okay, well
Speaker 3: wait what is that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we've heard this, We've had our daughters tell us this,
Speaker 2: and I've already forgotten what it is. But yes he's amp, Yes.
Speaker 3: He's too sensitive or he's you know, he's too accommodating
Speaker 3: or whatepens bs, you know he's being a man. It
Speaker 3: takes as much of a it takes as much maturity
Speaker 3: and as much strength to be vulnerable as as it
Speaker 3: does to be you know, a rock. You know, I
Speaker 3: think it takes more strength to let your guards now absolutely.
Speaker 2: What would you say the biggest mistake couples.
Speaker 3: Make the biggest wow or you.
Speaker 2: Can list a couple, because you know what people do
Speaker 2: that actually ends up undermining their relationship.
Speaker 3: I would say the first thing becomes to mind is
Speaker 3: the inability to accept change and a misunderstanding of the
Speaker 3: place of change in your relationship. One thing I heard
Speaker 3: couples say quite often is you're not the person I'm married,
Speaker 3: You're not the same. My answer to that is dull,
Speaker 3: I mean, you know who is you know? I mean,
Speaker 3: who is the same person today as they were a
Speaker 3: year ago?
Speaker 1: No one is.
Speaker 3: So I think if people understand that change is not
Speaker 3: a bad thing, one of the most I'm sort of
Speaker 3: an iconoclass I kind of go against cherished beliefs, and
Speaker 3: so it's when someone says, you know, a lot of
Speaker 3: these sayings that are out there to me. Are we
Speaker 3: just say them and we don't really get it. Like,
Speaker 3: for instance, whatever it took to get them is what
Speaker 3: it takes to keep them. That's BS. I don't believe it. No,
Speaker 3: I mean, what it took to get them is what
Speaker 3: it took together. What it takes to keep them is
Speaker 3: much more than what it took together.
Speaker 6: That is so true, because that person is changing, and
Speaker 6: with every change is a new opportunity for you to
Speaker 6: learn and adapt.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I believe that changing and not knowing the
Speaker 3: place of change in your relationship. I look at change
Speaker 3: as a beautiful opportunity to learn something new about your spouse.
Speaker 3: That's what changes if you've changed. If you're not, I mean,
Speaker 3: there are things that I didn't like when we got
Speaker 3: married that I really like now. Things that I did
Speaker 3: like when I get married. We got married and I
Speaker 3: don't like now. There's a chance for her to learn
Speaker 3: about me.
Speaker 1: Okay, you got to tell us what those things are.
Speaker 1: I mean, we already got the wipeing of with the towel,
Speaker 1: So tell me, really, what what is it that you
Speaker 1: like now that you didn't like when you first got together?
Speaker 1: And what was it thing you don't like now? They did,
Speaker 1: like when you first got.
Speaker 3: Together and you just put my stuff all in the street.
Speaker 1: Hey man, Well, one thing.
Speaker 3: I guess you know. One thing. The things that I
Speaker 3: most of the things that I like now that I
Speaker 3: didn't like, I like because my wife has influenced me. Okay,
Speaker 3: there's some things I didn't like to eat. I never
Speaker 3: I mean like avocados. Not. Let me be as simple
Speaker 3: as that.
Speaker 1: The little, the mushy.
Speaker 3: Then what the heck.
Speaker 2: Has he hates them?
Speaker 3: With my man?
Speaker 1: You get it, dude, I can't have him in the house.
Speaker 1: I don't want to see him.
Speaker 2: Is a texture issue.
Speaker 3: It's a texture thing, absolutely, That's what I tell him.
Speaker 3: It's a texture thing.
Speaker 1: I found. My tribe found avocados and Okra.
Speaker 3: I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Okay, I am from orc, Arkansas, so Okra is on
Speaker 1: my list of things. We were here for a second
Speaker 1: for a second.
Speaker 3: Vocados, But I I have but because of I mean,
Speaker 3: she's trudded daddy, and avocados are just her things. She
Speaker 3: loves avocados, and uh, you know, I tried one and
Speaker 3: she keeps, you know, shoving them down in front of me.
Speaker 3: So so after a while, I say, you know what, Okay,
Speaker 3: maybe it's not so bad, and then you're not. I
Speaker 3: like them, but it's and it's a it's a small
Speaker 3: example just to show you that she has influenced me
Speaker 3: and and and that that that micro micro influence, you know,
Speaker 3: is you can turn to a macro thing. You know.
Speaker 3: It's like the things that I used to like that
Speaker 3: I don't like. I mean, I, oh god, there's so many.
Speaker 3: She just whispered to me, sarcasm. WHOA I used to
Speaker 3: be very sarcastic. I thought it was fun. Oh wow,
Speaker 3: the older I got. I don't care. I don't want
Speaker 3: to hear it. I mean, I just want to be
Speaker 3: straight with me, you know, just don't just don't bring
Speaker 3: me sarcasms. I believe I look at sarcasm as a
Speaker 3: bailed insult, you know, it's like, really, dude, come on.
Speaker 3: So so those are some of the things. But anyway,
Speaker 3: that's that's going to be all over the media.
Speaker 1: What would be What would our things be? What is
Speaker 1: something you didn't like when we first started dating that
Speaker 1: you do like now or something or in the opposite.
Speaker 2: Way, well, something as simple as like salmon tartar or
Speaker 2: you know, like you've introduced me. So a lot of
Speaker 2: seafood that I wouldn't have tried before. I yes, And
Speaker 2: I've enjoyed watching sports on a very extreme level that
Speaker 2: I never really bothered to even pay attention to before.
Speaker 2: So I definitely watched a lot of basketball that I
Speaker 2: wouldn't have watched. I have always liked college football, but
Speaker 2: so there was some precedent to it. I I enjoy
Speaker 2: now getting up earlier than I used to because if
Speaker 2: I don't get up early, I miss the best part
Speaker 2: of the day with TJ. Because that is when he
Speaker 2: is at his brightest and I would almost argue most fun.
Speaker 2: And so if I don't get up early, I miss
Speaker 2: the best part of TJ.
Speaker 1: Sure that pastor cal Yeah, four thirty am I am
Speaker 1: the life of the party, brother, Oh my god, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2: It really is. And you know, I'm not like a
Speaker 2: late sleeper, but I'm more like six thirty seven. And
Speaker 2: so if I'm left to my own devices, So now,
Speaker 2: like this morning is not a good example, but a
Speaker 2: lot of mornings now I'll get up significantly before I
Speaker 2: would have, and I've enjoyed it, and it actually gets
Speaker 2: your day started. So I would say those things, how
Speaker 2: about you?
Speaker 1: I didn't before we started dating. I didn't like yacht rock.
Speaker 2: You still don't.
Speaker 1: I still don't. Okay, bad example.
Speaker 3: Food.
Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of something though, And I don't
Speaker 1: know if this is what you were talking about as well,
Speaker 1: pastor cal But there are some things that's one thing,
Speaker 1: food or interests. But what do you find sometimes the
Speaker 1: things about your mate You've talked about the sarcasm, But
Speaker 1: I was trying to think of something that you did
Speaker 1: that I used to like that I don't like anymore,
Speaker 1: or something you did that that kind of a thing.
Speaker 1: I actually can't think of anything there necessarily, but I'm
Speaker 1: sure there's something I'll keep thinking. Pasical to some of
Speaker 1: the answers.
Speaker 3: That was good. I'm glad you didn't that was good.
Speaker 7: Yeah, smart man doesal the things you kind of describe
Speaker 7: seemed to make an argument for why married at first
Speaker 7: sight can work and why it absolutely can't work.
Speaker 1: Meaning you put people there, if you're committed to this relationship,
Speaker 1: you're committed to it and you can make it work.
Speaker 1: But then on the other side of that, you talked
Speaker 1: about vulnerability, and it's hard to have that with someone
Speaker 1: that you just met. After after a week, two weeks,
Speaker 1: three weeks. So how do you see the marrit at
Speaker 1: first sight ex compare to how we normally go about
Speaker 1: dating and relationships in marriage.
Speaker 3: Most of the people, most of the people who we
Speaker 3: I would like to say all, but I can't because
Speaker 3: sometimes there are a lot of Charlatan's there who you know,
Speaker 3: who trick us. But most of the people who we
Speaker 3: who we choose to be married at first sight, they
Speaker 3: are ready for the commitment. They they they And one
Speaker 3: question I always ask them is were you considering marriage
Speaker 3: before you knew we were auditioning for the show? You know,
Speaker 3: is this something that's been on your mind or did
Speaker 3: you just say, hey, I can do that, okay great?
Speaker 3: And the ones who say, well, you know what, I've
Speaker 3: been thinking about it, I'm like, nope, you're out of here. No,
Speaker 3: I need to know. I need to have people who
Speaker 3: have already decided that they want to be married. Now,
Speaker 3: all that being said, back your question as far as
Speaker 3: people who are vulnerable, I think that there are people
Speaker 3: who are already in that mindset, so it's a little
Speaker 3: easier for them to accept the idea of marriage. And
Speaker 3: then the idea of marrying a stranger is a strange idea. Also,
Speaker 3: but if you knew what goes on behind the scenes
Speaker 3: and how we prep these people and how we vet
Speaker 3: them before they get to the show. I mean, over
Speaker 3: the three months that we're vetting them before they're even chosen,
Speaker 3: we've learned so much about them, and they've learned so
Speaker 3: much about the process. They've learned so much about themselves
Speaker 3: that they become confident in what we're doing. And so
Speaker 3: then it's a matter of them just once they make
Speaker 3: the decision. We have so many people. I'm trying not
Speaker 3: to give spoilers for any upcoming seasons because that's what's
Speaker 3: in my mind most recently got some older seasons. But
Speaker 3: they're in a mindset to be vulnerable, and they're in
Speaker 3: a mindset to be committed, you know. So it's if
Speaker 3: they were just doing this for fun, then there would
Speaker 3: be a greater commitment issue. But the reason we have
Speaker 3: twelve I think it's now twelve couples that are still together,
Speaker 3: twelve fourteen couples that are still together, and roughly about
Speaker 3: thirteen fourteen babies, you know, I mean, it says a lot,
Speaker 3: you know that people are really they're really ready and
Speaker 3: willing to be committed and they're ready and willing to
Speaker 3: be vulnerable. And of course, you know, I don't think
Speaker 3: there's any other platform where you're going to have people
Speaker 3: who are just constantly in your face, helping you through
Speaker 3: your situation, counseling you. Whenever you have a problem, you
Speaker 3: can call them because we're there more than more than
Speaker 3: what you see on TV. We're there sometimes I'm up
Speaker 3: to two am talking to people, you know, helping them
Speaker 3: in their relationships. It's quite extensive.
Speaker 2: Well, we've watched two full seasons and we're on another
Speaker 2: one now. We admitted to you we like watching the
Speaker 2: ones with our commercials, so we have been finding those
Speaker 2: seasons and you know you mentioned I think twelve or
Speaker 2: fourteen are still together. I believe the show's success rate
Speaker 2: is just under twenty percent, you know, and for a
Speaker 2: TV show, I can say, when we're watching the show,
Speaker 2: it all seems very genuine. Like you to your point,
Speaker 2: these couples do seem like this is something they really
Speaker 2: want and are fighting for and are struggling with in
Speaker 2: front of everyone, which can't be easy. But this past
Speaker 2: season see season seventeen, has gotten a lot of publicity
Speaker 2: for quite the opposite that it seemed as though you
Speaker 2: mentioned Charlatan's, there were some of those that in that cast,
Speaker 2: people who weren't in it for the right reasons, Like yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean the reunion show. We started to watch some
Speaker 2: of it today and it didn't feel like any other
Speaker 2: season that we've seen at least have married at first sight.
Speaker 2: So lessons learned from season seventeen as you all now
Speaker 2: in Barkin season eighteen or we're about to. I guess
Speaker 2: you guys have already shot it, right, but we haven't.
Speaker 2: We haven't seen it yet. It has been released yet.
Speaker 2: What lessons did you all learn? And I just want
Speaker 2: to get your overall impressions of what happened at season seventeen.
Speaker 3: Season seventeen, And you know, I normally tried to be
Speaker 3: as objective as possible, but Season seventeen will go down
Speaker 3: in history, my personal marreative first sight history, as being
Speaker 3: the most difficult season that I've ever ever experienced since
Speaker 3: being a part of this show. I think that what
Speaker 3: happened was that you know, a lot of them, a
Speaker 3: lot of people when they got together, it only takes
Speaker 3: sometimes it only takes a couple people to sort of
Speaker 3: infect the entire group. And I think that's what happened.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to call any names, but there were
Speaker 3: some people who came in and concocted this insane idea
Speaker 3: that we want to look good on camera. And they
Speaker 3: were so convinced and so successful in their approach that
Speaker 3: they convinced the rest of them to do the same.
Speaker 3: And so they decided that they are going to try
Speaker 3: and do the process. Now, you guys, you've been in TV,
Speaker 3: you understand the deal. Cameras are always on. I mean,
Speaker 3: you can't get rid of cameras. And they're all over
Speaker 3: the house. They're in the they're in the car, they're everywhere.
Speaker 3: The only place we don't go is a bathroom and
Speaker 3: in the bedroom after you shut the door, that's it.
Speaker 3: Outside of that, you know, you're always on camera. So
Speaker 3: we picked up on it very quickly, and we warned
Speaker 3: them early on, please be sincere because the cameras are watching.
Speaker 3: But for some reason, sometimes I just call it hubris.
Speaker 3: People think that they can outwit the cameras and outwit
Speaker 3: a process that's been going on for seventeen seasons. And
Speaker 3: you have a better idea. You think that you can
Speaker 3: just just sneak in and and do the whole thing
Speaker 3: so that we want to look better and anytime someone
Speaker 3: tried to do that, they always end up looking like buffoons.
Speaker 3: And there you have Season.
Speaker 1: Seventeen, pastor Kel, do you ever have to in that
Speaker 1: three month process of vetting people? I mean, this is
Speaker 1: still you said, we're TV folks cameras around. We also
Speaker 1: understand that you can't have boring folks on TV. I'm
Speaker 1: not this is not like a show of Real Housewives
Speaker 1: type of thing where that needs to be drama type thing.
Speaker 1: But you all have to or how do you give
Speaker 1: some consideration to well, we still got to have interesting
Speaker 1: folks who might have interesting dynamics. That plays into it
Speaker 1: a little bit, doesn't it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Absolutely we want people. We want people who are interesting. However,
Speaker 3: that's a production thing when it comes to me, Doctor
Speaker 3: Pepper and Doctor Peel, who's now on when it comes
Speaker 3: to us, And I've said this on camera, I think
Speaker 3: they keep editing it out, but this on camera, we
Speaker 3: don't care about the cameras. That's not my focus. I'm
Speaker 3: not here for the cameras. I'm not here for the show.
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm here for the marriage. And I tell
Speaker 3: them quite often my main concern is that you stay
Speaker 3: married and that you do the things that are necessary
Speaker 3: and listen to us and do those things are necessary
Speaker 3: to make a marriage successful. So one thing that I
Speaker 3: do know, though, is that you know, and we all
Speaker 3: we've all been married here, we all are married. Well,
Speaker 3: whatever we are.
Speaker 1: You gave it away. We told you that in confidence,
Speaker 1: pastor cow We're trying to figure it out.
Speaker 3: But one thing that you do know about marriage is
Speaker 3: that if you just turn the cameras on on any
Speaker 3: marriage and leave them on, you're going to get every
Speaker 3: genre of theater. You're going to get comedy, You're going
Speaker 3: to get drama, you're going to get spins. You know,
Speaker 3: you're going to get everything.
Speaker 2: Uh, and so that you forgot horror, I know, I was.
Speaker 3: Trying to leave that out. You want to get it.
Speaker 3: You gotta get it's gonna be a thriller as well.
Speaker 3: But you know when you so, that's what we do normally,
Speaker 3: We just leave the cameras on and they create their
Speaker 3: own drama. They create their own you're just being married.
Speaker 3: If someone turned the camera on in our family, you know,
Speaker 3: and just saw us for you know, a couple of days,
Speaker 3: come on, it would be hilarious and sad and scary.
Speaker 2: You know all that, Master, Cal You've been doing this
Speaker 2: since season four, have I'm sure there have been, But
Speaker 2: can you think of a couple or two that really
Speaker 2: disappointed you because you thought they could make it. They
Speaker 2: should have tried harder, they could have actually made it
Speaker 2: further than they did.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, wow, that is a good one. Yeah, I do.
Speaker 3: And I'm trying to remember some of the names. There
Speaker 3: was a couple in Dallas. I can't even remember the
Speaker 3: names because for some reason, I don't remember the ones
Speaker 3: who succeed. But there was a couple in Dallas that
Speaker 3: I really thought could have made it. He was older
Speaker 3: and she was. He was like thirty nine and she
Speaker 3: was like thirty eight. And I really wanted them to succeed.
Speaker 3: I thought that they could have, but they just showed it.
Speaker 1: He just chose not to.
Speaker 3: Even in this last season in Denver with Michael and
Speaker 3: his wife Chloe Chloe, Oh my god, there's my daughter's day.
Speaker 3: Oh what's wrong with me? Mike Chloe? Even with them,
Speaker 3: we thought for sure they were going to make it.
Speaker 3: Chloe was such a class act, I mean, such an
Speaker 3: incredible person, and we believe that Michael. I think he's
Speaker 3: a good guy too, but I think that just the
Speaker 3: whole tension of the show and all the stress of
Speaker 3: the show, I think he made a bad decision and
Speaker 3: staying with that season, I think that Lauren and Orian
Speaker 3: they could have made I think they would have They
Speaker 3: actually could have made it. He made some very immature
Speaker 3: decisions early on, and I'd go back season after season
Speaker 3: after season and show you people who had all the potential,
Speaker 3: but they they allowed their single thinking to influence their
Speaker 3: married life.
Speaker 1: Past the count. Do you take it personally? Do you
Speaker 1: do you ever when people don't work out? Because in
Speaker 1: two ways, One it's not good for the show and
Speaker 1: whatnot for its its track record, but also personally that
Speaker 1: you set someone up with an individual that didn't work
Speaker 1: out or they didn't like you. Does that bother you
Speaker 1: when there's a miss and you take it personally?
Speaker 3: It does it bothers me? It's It's like, look, when
Speaker 3: you put all especially, it's not just the matching, it's
Speaker 3: it's all the season that I've spent time with you know,
Speaker 3: these people and just talking to them like Miles and
Speaker 3: care and you know who. I think there are still
Speaker 3: great people, you know, but they're no longer together. And
Speaker 3: you know, I think about all the time that I've spent,
Speaker 3: you know, late at night, you know, talking to couples,
Speaker 3: and and you decide to to just quit, you know,
Speaker 3: because of something. And I think I think that, you know,
Speaker 3: if they would have persisted, and not just them, but
Speaker 3: any a lot of the other couples, that they would
Speaker 3: have persisted, that they would have seen, you know, the
Speaker 3: brighter side of their relationship. So in the moment, I'm
Speaker 3: gonna be very frank with you though, But in the moment, yeah,
Speaker 3: it does bother me. But then I go home and
Speaker 3: I sleep.
Speaker 1: Get down with that towel, no worries at all.
Speaker 4: Brother, you know, I do like to I go home
Speaker 4: and I sleep well because look, at the end of
Speaker 4: the day, I don't feel as though I've done anyone
Speaker 4: of disservice.
Speaker 3: They came there, We didn't we didn't draft them. They
Speaker 3: came there because they wanted to be married. We provided
Speaker 3: them every opportunity to be married, in every opportunity to succeed,
Speaker 3: and they threw it away. So at that point I
Speaker 3: feel bad about it, but it's not lasting.
Speaker 2: Do you think when when these types or any relationship
Speaker 2: ends truly. Do you think oftentimes it does boil down
Speaker 2: to ego?
Speaker 3: Okay, yes it does. It was a strange phenomenon with
Speaker 3: TV with this show that I think sometimes people who
Speaker 3: may not be able to find though one or the
Speaker 3: right person, all of a sudden they get married at
Speaker 3: first sight. These are for the ones who failed, All
Speaker 3: of a sudden, they get married at first sight, and
Speaker 3: now they're like, wait a minute, I'm on TV. Hey,
Speaker 3: you know other people are going to see me. Wow,
Speaker 3: maybe I can get somebody now, So I'm going to
Speaker 3: say no, I decision day and.
Speaker 2: Oh because now my options are much bigger and greater.
Speaker 3: But here's what they don't realize. Yes, people do know you. Yes,
Speaker 3: social media, you will increase your social media following absolutely,
Speaker 3: But here's what you don't know. You don't realize is
Speaker 3: that your entire married life is on TV and people
Speaker 3: can see if you were creep, they can see if
Speaker 3: you were angry, they can see if you were whatever.
Speaker 3: They see all that. So that may not bode well
Speaker 3: for you. If you don't treat your husband right, if
Speaker 3: you don't treat your wife right, and now you're trying
Speaker 3: to date someone, all they have to do is go
Speaker 3: to Netflix and oh I don't want her.
Speaker 1: If that's your tryout, you're probably not going to get anybody.
Speaker 1: Go U. I have a question here from a very loyal,
Speaker 1: loyal viewer of Married at First Sight, and it goes
Speaker 1: it says you say marriage ain't for punks. So if
Speaker 1: that's the case, would you say that dating is for punks?
Speaker 1: That comes to us and reviewer by the name of
Speaker 1: Devon Franklin. By the way, are you here. I'm texting
Speaker 1: with Devon right now. He's been one of my boys
Speaker 1: tho years and know he's joining you.
Speaker 3: I need to catch up with him. I never talked
Speaker 3: to Devon in a minute, but he.
Speaker 1: Wanted to ask you that question.
Speaker 3: You know what dating, No, dating ain't for punks either. Dating,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's tough. But uh, dating with a
Speaker 3: purpose ain't for punks. You know, Dating without an intentional
Speaker 3: goal is definitely, you know, for punks. But if you
Speaker 3: if you're if you're dating with intention and you know,
Speaker 3: like Devon, you know you know who who's just that's
Speaker 3: just an awesome dude. But like you know, if someone
Speaker 3: in as we get older and you're single and you're dating,
Speaker 3: most people in that category. You know you're dating with
Speaker 3: an intention. You know you're not just out trying to
Speaker 3: netflix and chill. You want something serious and so that
Speaker 3: takes a lot of grip, a lot of resolve. And
Speaker 3: uh so, yeah, dating with intention ain't for punks, but
Speaker 3: just dating to just mash and grab that smashing.
Speaker 1: Well, I am. I only have two of the small
Speaker 1: things that I want you to chime in because people
Speaker 1: have different opinions about it. Your opinion on this, just
Speaker 1: quickly going to bed mad is that people say you
Speaker 1: shouldn't do it.
Speaker 3: What do you think? I don't think you should go
Speaker 3: to bed angry. I think I think it's okay to
Speaker 3: excuse me. I think it's okay to go to bed
Speaker 3: without the issue resolved. And there's a difference. Going to
Speaker 3: bed angry means that I'm I'm going to I'm going
Speaker 3: to carry that that weight, I'm going to carry that
Speaker 3: pain with me to sleep. First of all, you're not
Speaker 3: going to sleep. Well, you know it doesn't very seldom happen.
Speaker 3: But I think that you can resolve an issue and say,
Speaker 3: you know what, we don't agree on this, but what
Speaker 3: we're going to do, let's table it and we'll talk
Speaker 3: about it tomorrow. At least you've made a connection with
Speaker 3: your partner and you know that this that that we're okay,
Speaker 3: even though the issue is not resolved. We're good even
Speaker 3: the issue is not resolved, and we can read, we
Speaker 3: can read, you know, just just reapproach it on.
Speaker 1: The next day.
Speaker 3: It goes to what I say about conflict resolution, that
Speaker 3: the problem is not the problem, or rather, the person
Speaker 3: is not the problem. The problem is. And so when
Speaker 3: you look at an issue that you're having between two people,
Speaker 3: look at that thing, objectify, put it on a shelf,
Speaker 3: and say, look, that is the problem. That is the
Speaker 3: thing that's attacking our relationship. I'm not attaching it to you.
Speaker 3: It's not attached to me. That is the problem. So
Speaker 3: in the morning, we're going to talk about that. As
Speaker 3: far as you're concerned, we're in this together, we love
Speaker 3: each other, we're going to be okay, we're going to
Speaker 3: go to bed. It's not resolved. We're going to go
Speaker 3: to bed, and in the morning we're going to talk
Speaker 3: about that. We're not going to attach it to us.
Speaker 1: And seven year itch, is that a real thing?
Speaker 3: I think no, No, that's a movie. Back in the
Speaker 3: fifties or something. No, that's not a real thing. I think.
Speaker 3: I think there are some people out there to say that.
Speaker 3: After a certain amount of years, you start to question.
Speaker 3: But some people itch after sick months. You know, some
Speaker 3: people hit all the time. You know they need to
Speaker 3: get some some cream or something to get rid of that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: some people just itch.
Speaker 1: Man, I don't think.
Speaker 3: I think it's something we've been put in our minds.
Speaker 3: You know, they have to your seven get over your
Speaker 3: seven years. Our seven years went, seventh year went by
Speaker 3: without a hitch. I don't even remember it specifically.
Speaker 2: Funny Yeah, and Patrick, I just have a few and
Speaker 2: then I think we'll be good. But I'm curious to
Speaker 2: play off of what you kind of said about not
Speaker 2: going to bed angry when you are feeling anger towards
Speaker 2: each other? Are there things you can say? Are there
Speaker 2: things you can do that will that will dissipate that anger?
Speaker 2: Or is it better to say nothing if you don't
Speaker 2: have something nice to say, say nothing at all. I'm
Speaker 2: curious what you do in those moments where it is
Speaker 2: intense and you do feel overwhelmed with anger and emotion.
Speaker 2: Do you have things you can say or do?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Absolutely first, I'll understand where the enemy is. Understand
Speaker 3: where the enemy is. The enemy is the issue. And
Speaker 3: so I tell couples to say all the time, tell
Speaker 3: your partner when you're feeling that, first of all, I
Speaker 3: am not your enemy. I'm not your enemy. I'm on
Speaker 3: your side. That when you have that kind of anchor,
Speaker 3: and I believe that you don't have to. If I'm
Speaker 3: angry at my wife about something, I don't have to
Speaker 3: wait for her to initiate reconciliation. I can easily initiate it.
Speaker 3: Even if it's something that she did to me, I
Speaker 3: can still initiate reconciliation. And I can start that by saying,
Speaker 3: you know what. Yeah, I mean in my mind, I'm thinking, okay, fine,
Speaker 3: you know this pissed me off. This really got me
Speaker 3: going here, you know what. But here's what I'm going
Speaker 3: to say, honey. You know, I know I'm not feeling
Speaker 3: good now, but I do recognize that you're not my enemy.
Speaker 3: You are not my enemy. I know we're on the
Speaker 3: same side, and so we're going to deal with this.
Speaker 3: Because the moment you reconnect with your partner by letting
Speaker 3: them know that you're not mad at.
Speaker 2: Them, what if you are mad at them though it's.
Speaker 3: Okay, And that's what I mean by placing, by placing
Speaker 3: that your understanding the enemy.
Speaker 1: You're mad at them, but they Yeah, you said, wow,
Speaker 1: you setting off balloons on your computer? There it went
Speaker 1: right along with your answer. I love that. That was perfect.
Speaker 1: I'm like, arcle, did I do that?
Speaker 3: But no, But even even if I am upset at
Speaker 3: what you did, I'm actually angry at what you did. Okay,
Speaker 3: I have to separate the what you did from the
Speaker 3: who you are. You're questioning it.
Speaker 1: No, it's just so difficult to do. What you said
Speaker 1: makes perfect sense. But Mary Jane, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's very difficult. But you see, but this is
Speaker 1: the challenge, this is the challenge in marriage and why
Speaker 1: and why so many of us, you know, find it
Speaker 1: difficult and you know, and we go through multiple marriages
Speaker 1: because we don't learn these lessons that anything that's worth
Speaker 1: having is worth fighting for, it's worth pushing through your
Speaker 1: your your negative feelings. I look at it like this.
Speaker 3: I've worked many jobs that I didn't like, many of
Speaker 3: them that I had to roll out to pull myself
Speaker 3: out of bed in the morning, and oh my god,
Speaker 3: I'll have to go to this fleet. I hate these
Speaker 3: people that oh my job, but I do it. Why
Speaker 3: because I know that if I don't go, I'm not
Speaker 3: going to get paid. I'm not going. You know, my
Speaker 3: life depends on this. I have a family. I have
Speaker 3: to take care of this. But we don't think of
Speaker 3: marriage that way the moment. We don't like them in
Speaker 3: our marriage. Something in our marriage we are very quick
Speaker 3: to say, you know what, I'm not going to go
Speaker 3: into work today. I'm not you know, But why do
Speaker 3: we have so much more commitment to the things that
Speaker 3: don't affect our life or the things that are not
Speaker 3: as important as our relationship. But we don't have the
Speaker 3: commitment for our relationship?
Speaker 2: All right? And then quickly, lastly, I want to ask,
Speaker 2: how do you find a way to forgive? And when
Speaker 2: I say like, forgive and forget, like not to hold
Speaker 2: the grudge, not to breed resentment, do you have tips
Speaker 2: for that?
Speaker 3: Absolutely? First of all, there's no such thing as forgiving
Speaker 3: and forgetting.
Speaker 1: It's not possible.
Speaker 3: As humans, everything that's happened in our lives, we remember everything.
Speaker 3: I mean, doctors can even open up your skull and
Speaker 3: touch certain parts of your brain and you can remember
Speaker 3: things from your childhood, you know, so it's almost impossible
Speaker 3: to forget. So what we're talking about is forgiving and coping,
Speaker 3: not forgiving and forgetting, Okay, And I think that that's
Speaker 3: a that's a big challenge here because when we talk
Speaker 3: about forgiving, when I forgive you, what I'm saying is
Speaker 3: I'm showing you, I'm offering you grace, I'm offering you
Speaker 3: a reprieve. I'm releasing my judgment over you. Okay, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to I'm not going to stand over you
Speaker 3: and lord over you. Now, I'll be The forgiveness is
Speaker 3: necessary in every circumstance. It's always necessary. But if you
Speaker 3: cannot handle the memory of what that of what happened,
Speaker 3: if you cannot handle that thing, you're not going to
Speaker 3: forget it. But if you can't turn that trunk into
Speaker 3: a carrying case, if you can't do that, then you
Speaker 3: have to decide whether you're going to forgive and stay
Speaker 3: or forgiven leave. But forgiveness is not an option that
Speaker 3: has to happen because that's not for the person who offended.
Speaker 3: That's for you. Forgiveness is for you. Forgiveness cleanses you.
Speaker 3: Forgiveness releases the weight from you. Forgiveness lets you know
Speaker 3: that you can move on. It's not about them now.
Speaker 3: If I can forgive you and and and and look
Speaker 3: at everything that you've done and say, you know what,
Speaker 3: I forgive you.
Speaker 1: And this is going to be tough, but we can
Speaker 1: work through it.
Speaker 3: We can work through it. I'm going to work on
Speaker 3: my memories of it. But I need you to help me.
Speaker 3: I need you to be patient. If I have to
Speaker 3: bring it up again, if we have to talk about it,
Speaker 3: you got to be patient with me. If it takes
Speaker 3: six months, if it takes a year, you have to
Speaker 3: be patient. And if you're not willing to do that,
Speaker 3: then we have to make some decisions because I'm going
Speaker 3: to forgive you irrespective. Will I forgive and stay or
Speaker 3: will I forgive and leave?
Speaker 2: Very cool. We have so enjoyed this conversation. We were
Speaker 2: looking forward to it for so long. We will keep watching,
Speaker 2: also looking forward to season eighteen of Married at First Sight.
Speaker 2: But just I really, as much as it is entertaining,
Speaker 2: it really has been educational for us. So thank you
Speaker 2: for being vulnerable yourself, not only on this podcast but
Speaker 2: on the show It matters.
Speaker 3: Oh absolutely, thank you so much. I do want to
Speaker 3: share with you that we have that, my wife and
Speaker 3: I we do have something that's so so cool because
Speaker 3: we get so many requests for counseling and what have
Speaker 3: you that we can't talk to everybody. So we have
Speaker 3: an app that's going to becoming I'll call a marriage
Speaker 3: Ain't for pumps Go figure. So then the app will
Speaker 3: be coming out. We're doing a soft launch in by
Speaker 3: the end of this month. It will be in beta form,
Speaker 3: but then we're going to be looking at a larger
Speaker 3: launch to the public very very shortly after that. And
Speaker 3: I'm here to tell you it's a relationship app for
Speaker 3: married people, and it's one app with three applications. Is
Speaker 3: for married people, it's going to have resources, it's going
Speaker 3: to have marriage tips, about parenting, about a conflict resolution,
Speaker 3: you name it, you're going to be able to find
Speaker 3: it in that app. And also for dating people, there's
Speaker 3: a pre married section in it for people who are
Speaker 3: dating and want to be married, and then for marriage
Speaker 3: minded people, people who are single and looking for their
Speaker 3: forever partner, and so there will be a matchmaking component
Speaker 3: in that. So it's one app with three different applications.
Speaker 3: Be awesome so keep your eye and keep on the
Speaker 3: lookout for that. And marriage ain't for pumps dot com.
Speaker 1: So you're you're launching a dating app? Did I hear
Speaker 1: that correctly? You kidding?
Speaker 3: You know what? You know what, it's not app hard,
Speaker 3: it's a pre marriage.
Speaker 1: And a marriage for fifteen ninety nine. We will have
Speaker 1: somebody for you by the summer. We can't fansical. I
Speaker 1: love you, brother. We absolutely have leaned on you in
Speaker 1: a lot of ways. When we were kind of locked down,
Speaker 1: we were watching a lot of TV and we picked
Speaker 1: up your show and it really has been cool to
Speaker 1: watch you. Also, congrats on all the success. Our best
Speaker 1: to the entire staff over there, and please give your
Speaker 1: wife our best as well. Thank her for hanging out
Speaker 1: with us here as well.
Speaker 3: All Right, see you guys. My pleasure was a lot
Speaker 3: of fun. Hope to see you again.
Speaker 1: You will, brother, Thank you.
Speaker 3: That's it.
Speaker 2: Hey, we'd love to hear what you think about this
Speaker 2: at Amy and TJ podcast on Instagram. Thanks for being
Speaker 2: with us everyone. Hope you learned something.
Speaker 1: Vampation bad Buations, the