WEBVTT - Falling in Love with Pastor Cal 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.040 Either everybody. In this episode, Robank and I reveal that 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:11.960 we have been in couples counseling with two licensed therapists 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.520 the past year and it hasn't cost us a dime. Also, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:19.079 whatever you think is the problem in your relationship, it's 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:20.880 not really the problem. We're going to tell you what 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.560 your problem is. And also, one of the foremost and 0:00:23.680 --> 0:00:28.760 visible relationship experts in the country does not believe you 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:32.120 can fall in love. And with that, everybody, welcome to 0:00:32.120 --> 0:00:35.600 this episode of Amy and TJ Robes. Falling in love? 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:37.559 You with it, you're not with You believe it's possible. 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:42.160 I think you can fall in lust and then you grow. 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:44.240 In love, growing love, but not fall in love. 0:00:44.520 --> 0:00:46.839 I think you fallen lust. I think that's true, and 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.559 I think I think love comes with time and with 0:00:49.880 --> 0:00:52.839 really knowing someone. You don't really I don't think you 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:56.520 can really love someone until you truly know someone and 0:00:56.640 --> 0:01:00.400 accept all of their faults so you can come with them. 0:01:00.480 --> 0:01:03.280 So I assume love at first sight is not something. 0:01:03.000 --> 0:01:03.760 You think is possible. 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:04.880 I think it's lust at first sight. 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:07.199 Okay, what is this is my fault? I set myself 0:01:07.280 --> 0:01:09.600 up every time I was talking to you about fall 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:11.320 in love. You go back to this lust thing, and 0:01:11.720 --> 0:01:14.360 I have to hear about all this lustful relationship pastry 0:01:14.440 --> 0:01:17.440 you've had, you did it last time. Yeah, I've been 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.720 in a lust of lot. Y'all remember, right, they're laughing, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:25.360 they remember. But it's fascinating to hear that everybody. I think, 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.560 generally speaking, you hear so many people talk about I 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:29.280 fell in love and then I fell in love a 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.279 couple of times, or I've been in love a few times, 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.319 but that a relationship expert doesn't believe that's the case 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:36.880 is fascinating to hear, and we're talking about it. We've 0:01:36.880 --> 0:01:39.480 talked about it a lot on this on our podcast. 0:01:39.600 --> 0:01:42.520 Some of the shows we've been watching, and some of 0:01:42.560 --> 0:01:44.600 them we were initially wanted to be kind of dismissed. 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:47.600 I stay dismissive in that a ninety day fiance or 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.040 merit at first sight, like this is silly, that'll never work, 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.840 this is just for entertainment purposes. But you and I 0:01:54.880 --> 0:01:58.880 have sat and watched these shows and went, wow, we 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.559 are learning in watching how people communicate. 0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:05.040 Right, Because yes, of course it's entertaining. But what you're seeing, 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.320 I believe, are people who are desperate to want to 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.840 be together, but don't necessarily know as I think we 0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:15.520 can all put ourselves in this situation. We don't know 0:02:15.600 --> 0:02:19.600 how best to communicate with each other, to commiserate, to 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.799 support each other. We just our egos get in the way. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:24.600 And it's easy to see it in other people and 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.720 much harder to acknowledge it in yourself. But sometimes when 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.720 we're watching these shows, I'm like, oh, oh, I do that, 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:34.280 you know, and you actually get some self reflection by 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.079 seeing other people put themselves out there. And it's easier 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.680 to witness it first than someone else and then maybe 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:41.320 hopefully acknowledge it in yourself. 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.800 But we watch it sometimes we see I'll see the 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:47.760 guy saying something in a certain way to his wife 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:53.720 and uncle and see it that way. But it is 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.119 I think there is incredible value now in the show. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.880 I would have been dismissive ahead of time, but now 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:03.279 that I've watched, they wonderful experiments in relationships and communication, 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:05.280 which is always key. Now, I said, you and I 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:10.440 have been in in couples counseling the past year, but 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:15.440 our counselors don't realize they were counseling us all. One 0:03:15.480 --> 0:03:17.080 of them was the guy we had on the show, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:21.000 good friend of ours, Jeff Guardier, doctor Guardia America Psychologists. 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:22.720 But we had him on to talk about I don't 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.720 even remember the first time, and it turns into a 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:27.400 session for you and I to talk about our relationship. 0:03:27.440 --> 0:03:29.960 We started asking questions, he started giving us advice, and 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:32.320 we thought, wait, what's happening. I think we're having a 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:35.600 therapy session right now. And it worked, and I think 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.480 a lot of people got a lot of really good 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.040 actionable information from it. 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.880 And doctor Guardia, you can keep sending those invoices if 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:45.880 you want, but yeah, we're probably not gonna respond. But 0:03:45.920 --> 0:03:48.880 the other person that's been giving us counseling, who had 0:03:48.920 --> 0:03:51.800 no idea probably until this moment, is God by the 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:56.000 name of Pastor cow now Pastor cal you all know 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.960 because the show has been wildly popular. Here is one 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:02.080 of the experts. It's the therapist on married at for 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.080 a site, which has been around now for seventeen seasons. 0:04:05.120 --> 0:04:06.800 I think this is two thousand and oh help me 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:08.840 with the year, but it's been around two thousand and 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.720 four I think was first launched, maybe, but almost twenty years, yes, 0:04:11.840 --> 0:04:14.720 and all these seasons. But we have watched I think 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.880 we really love him. Doctor Pepper is on there as well, 0:04:17.200 --> 0:04:20.640 Pepper Schwartz. Yeah, you don't know, but to hear to 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.560 see how they counsel and sometimes are hard on these 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:27.080 people on this show to some tough love, like you 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:29.919 got to stop doing that. And it's been fun to watch. 0:04:29.960 --> 0:04:31.760 And he is one that we loved, loved watching. 0:04:31.839 --> 0:04:34.160 Yeah, Pastor cal actually and funny. I looked him up 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.760 today and saw that he's got some Michigan roots, and 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:38.680 that actually made a lot of sense to me because 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.760 some of the things he says I hear from my 0:04:41.120 --> 0:04:44.960 Michigan parents. Love is a decision was one of the 0:04:45.000 --> 0:04:47.279 biggest things my mom had always preached, and I never 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:49.960 really understood it. It didn't really click for me until 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.039 much much later in life. But I heard Pastor kel 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.719 saying the very same thing, and I get it now. 0:04:57.240 --> 0:04:59.760 It's it's the hard times that you choose to love 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:01.919 so one even when you don't like them in the 0:05:01.960 --> 0:05:05.800 moment maybe, And those are the moments where you're choosing 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:08.920 to love someone and to put what they need ahead 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:12.000 of what you want. And to me, that's when it 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.040 it's the hardest. But when you get on the other 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:15.479 side of it. That's where the beauty is. 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:19.080 Okay, But Pastor cow As we bring you in here, now, 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:22.400 what is wrong with all of us? And I'll raise 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.320 my hand here as well. You heard what she just said, Pastor, 0:05:25.360 --> 0:05:28.480 call that folks think that you have that love is 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:29.960 not well? How'd you just put it? That your mom 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:30.640 is always. 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:31.880 It's it's a decision, is not a feeling. 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.080 It's a decision, okay, But what is wrong with any 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.560 of us having this romanticized idea of He's shaking his 0:05:39.720 --> 0:05:44.679 head already. Come on, Pastor, cal this a romanticized idea 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.160 of being able to actually fall in love and that 0:05:48.360 --> 0:05:51.160 being a real thing. Are we do we need to 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:51.919 get away from that? 0:05:52.920 --> 0:06:03.080 Yeah? I mean, hey, why it's good to be with 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:07.279 you guys. Good to see you again, te j. So look, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.520 here's what's so cool and it's so interesting about love 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:14.400 and about this whole thing, is that, you know, I 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.440 think that the idea of falling in love is a 0:06:18.480 --> 0:06:23.440 Western idea. It's one that we in America and in 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:27.600 the West, we really rally to that idea of falling falling, 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:32.880 falling in love. Roughly about seventy percent or so marriages 0:06:32.920 --> 0:06:37.640 worldwide are arranged. These are marriages that have nothing to 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:40.120 do with with your feeling. They have to do with 0:06:40.200 --> 0:06:44.280 coming together because you're joining legacies, you're joining families, you're 0:06:44.400 --> 0:06:47.760 joining purposes, and then you learn to grow in love 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:52.360 after that. Those are and incidentally, those relationships, those marriages 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:56.600 have over a ninety percent success rate where people grow 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.760 in love. So, yeah, the Western idea of romantic sizing 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.919 and oh my god, you so fine, man, I gotta 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.960 be with you, you know, just like you said, Amy, 0:07:06.000 --> 0:07:10.239 it's you're falling in lust. You know, it's it's something 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.880 that we've gotten so accustomed to. But I believe that 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.239 every time you fall in anything, you get hurt because 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.520 you have no control over it. And the notion that 0:07:18.560 --> 0:07:21.960 you have no control over, over, over over this thing 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:24.760 that I'm just I just tripped. It's just out there 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:27.360 somewhere and I just tripped it. Oops, I'm in. It 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.880 is ludicrous that you fall into it. I have no 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:33.800 control over it. It just happens to me without any 0:07:33.880 --> 0:07:38.000 kind of without my input. It just happened. Now, choosing 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.480 to love says, hey, look there's something in you. I 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.880 see a value. I'm making a conscious decision to fulfill 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:49.600 your legitimate needs, and that decision is going to be there, 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.920 That commitment is going to be there irrespective of how 0:07:51.960 --> 0:07:54.920 I feel, irrespective of what I feel good about you 0:07:54.960 --> 0:07:57.520 today and I don't feel good about you tomorrow, I'm 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:58.120 going to be there. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:07:59.640 Wow. 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.680 So what what is what is that? 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:04.200 You know? 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:10.080 What is the I'm curious though, because that seems tough 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.160 and hard to do and all of those things. I mean, 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.160 it's easy to say and really hard to do in 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.560 the moment. What is your best case for getting married? 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.800 What's the value in getting married? Why not just being 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.160 lost and go from person to person to person and 0:08:23.400 --> 0:08:26.280 just seek that feeling that dopamine hit. What is the 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.160 case for marriage that you would make to people the 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:29.960 case for marriage? 0:08:30.000 --> 0:08:31.920 That is such a great question. You know, I believe 0:08:31.920 --> 0:08:36.360 the marriage is honestly one of the building blocks of 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:40.320 a stable society. And I don't want to get you know, philosophical, 0:08:40.360 --> 0:08:43.160 but I believe it is. I believe that, you know, marriages, 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:46.920 you start with marriage, then you have family, then families 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:51.200 build communities, then communities build cities, and cities build countries. 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.280 I believe the marriage is at the foundation. So when 0:08:54.280 --> 0:08:57.280 people really start poopooing on marriage and say, you know, 0:08:57.320 --> 0:08:59.360 you don't have to get married or whatever whatever. I 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.680 don't buy it. I don't buy it because I know 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.520 people who've been together forever. Well, I don't see. I 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.199 don't feel it's just a piece of paper, and they 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:09.360 can say that crap. I'm sorry. Can I just be 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.520 honest with yes? Please, they can say that crap. That 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:15.280 is just a piece of paper. I feel someone all 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.320 of a sudden, you know, doesn't want to be with 0:09:17.400 --> 0:09:20.200 him anymore, you know, then all of a sudden they 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.680 wish that paper was there because that paper is actually 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.120 it brings legitimacy to it. 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:30.640 Okay, but please, you said bring legitimacy, but it's almost 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.599 it just makes it harder to break up. Robot and 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:35.960 I were talking about this not too terribly long ago, 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:39.840 and the Goldie Hawn Kurt Russell example. She always uses. 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:42.160 They have chosen to be together all this time and 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:44.600 never went down to a courthouse. And that's fine, but 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.559 there was some value or something more beautiful about someone. Right, 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.040 do you do you cage the bird or do you 0:09:51.080 --> 0:09:52.840 give them the option to fly every day? And then 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:56.480 they keep coming back to you that argument? So please 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.960 help explain in all seriousness. Why that piece of pap 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:01.679 per still is so important. 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.880 Well, I believe that the piece of paper is important 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.439 because you know, there there is a there's a saying 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.560 which says, you know that the things that I'll just 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.400 tell you, I'm a pastor, so I'm going to give 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.920 you a text. It says, give to Caesar the things 0:10:17.920 --> 0:10:19.719 that belonged to Caesar and the God and things that 0:10:19.760 --> 0:10:22.800 belong to God. And here's what it means. It means simply, 0:10:24.600 --> 0:10:28.160 the legal laws of the land should prevail when they can, 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:30.680 and you should give credence to those when you can. 0:10:31.160 --> 0:10:34.560 And your moral convictions, your moral convictions and the things 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:37.880 that you do morally, Okay, you have to consider that 0:10:38.000 --> 0:10:41.240 as well. So they have so. So the piece of 0:10:41.280 --> 0:10:43.400 paper is a is a is a thing that you 0:10:43.440 --> 0:10:47.800 give to Caesar. The piece of paper is a It 0:10:47.960 --> 0:10:51.720 is a way that people that the states recognize, the 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:55.360 cities recognize, the countries recognize that you're actually legally connected 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:57.520 to that person. I often believe that people don't want 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.120 to get married. They don't want the piece of paper 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.160 because they don't want that legal connection. I talked to 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:05.679 somebody recently who they've been together for fifteen years and 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.320 he refuses to marry her, and she said, well, if 0:11:08.320 --> 0:11:11.840 it was up to me, we'd be married. And he's like, well, yeah, 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.160 but I'm just scared because I had a marriage before 0:11:14.200 --> 0:11:17.280 and it failed, YadA YadA and all that. I'm like, dude, 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:19.400 you're not ready to give up your assets. 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.240 Okay, that's a lot of people would say that's legit pastical. 0:11:27.920 --> 0:11:30.600 You already, I mean, come on, but real commitment says 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:35.120 all that I have is yours and all that you 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:39.600 have is mine, and the legality of marriage ensures that. 0:11:40.120 --> 0:11:45.640 Yeah, how do you know that he or she is 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:49.240 the one? Do you believe that there's that that light 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:54.280 bulb like the one? I'm curious. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.240 I don't you know what? Amy, I don't Okay, this 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:02.439 is not okay? Is there one? 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:02.920 Right? 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:08.600 No? I don't believe in though one. Okay, I believe 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:10.880 that there are a number of people that you could 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:16.560 possibly be happy with. It comes down to choosing. If 0:12:16.640 --> 0:12:19.160 you believe that there is only the one, what happens 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.640 to that one? If God forbid, something happens to them 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:23.800 and they are in an accident before you meet them, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:27.520 or if they're born in Afghanistan or any kind of 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:30.320 things that would happen. I mean, what happens if you 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.640 never meet that one, then you're just destined to be 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:36.240 alone because you're not the one. No grown ups make 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:40.800 choices to love. We find people who are compatible, who 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.640 share our values, who have even if our values are 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:47.439 different different, they are compatibly different. The differences are compatible. 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.760 You're an extrovert, I'm an introvert. We balance each other out, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:55.640 you know, or whatever those values are regardless, you know 0:12:55.679 --> 0:12:59.840 where those people. When we find those people, we make decisions. 0:12:59.880 --> 0:13:02.960 You know, this person is worth me giving myself to. 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:07.920 I'm making a decision to legitimately commit myself to them, 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.320 for better or for worse, for Richard, for poor, sickness 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:14.839 and in health, but seeking all others and financial you know, 0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.559 on no matter what happens till death to us part. 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.079 That is the commitment. And you make that with your mind, 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.439 not with your heart. The heart follows, but the mind 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:24.080 begins to g. 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.600 Pastica ell on that point. And I think everybody's we 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.120 didn't really explain what meritive first sight is. I think 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:41.000 everybody knows what if you're not aware. The show essentially, 0:13:41.400 --> 0:13:43.319 as people meet at the altar, they don't know each 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:47.120 other's name, they don't know anything but the experts. Essentially, 0:13:47.200 --> 0:13:49.319 you all go through and try to find people who 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:52.640 are compatible. They meet at the altar, and then the 0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:55.760 marriage goes on and they have I think a couple 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:57.520 of months to decide whether or not they can continue the 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:02.160 marriage or get a DIVORCEE Okay, So here's the thing 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:06.360 Robot just asked you about making the case for marriage. 0:14:07.040 --> 0:14:11.439 Can you make the case for divorce? Because you all 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.120 on the show so often say you're not giving enough time, 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:18.559 you're quitting too early. You can make this work if 0:14:18.559 --> 0:14:21.680 you want to. So given that it seems like there's 0:14:21.880 --> 0:14:24.240 rarely could be and I'm not talking about extreme cases 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:26.200 of abuse or something like that in the house. That's different, 0:14:26.640 --> 0:14:30.680 but can't what case can there be for getting divorced? If, 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:32.800 like you said, if your mind, if you're committed to it, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:33.440 you can do. 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:38.040 It, you know, And that's a great, great question. I'm 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:39.560 not the guy. My wife and I when we sit 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:43.000 down with couples and talk with him, we're not the 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.400 people who will say, you know what, just sticking there, 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.720 no matter what, you can make it. You'll make it, 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:50.840 you know, no matter what's going on just hanging it. 0:14:50.960 --> 0:14:55.240 That's not us. If there's emotional abuse, I mean, it's 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:58.160 severe emotional abuse. And if the person is just completely 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.800 just intractable, that person will not change, okay, and that 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.560 person is just going to be a butthole. I mean, 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.000 it's just the way they are. And you're suffering emotional abuse. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.560 If your children are abusive, if they're drug abuse, and 0:15:10.640 --> 0:15:15.560 you decide to divorce, that's your call. That's completely your call. 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.800 And I have even told couples, I've told individuals rather 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:21.840 that it's will end couples. I've said, you know what, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.640 it's important at this point that you consider whether or 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.560 not this marriage is worth saving, because in my opinion, 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:32.560 it's not. It's not. So I do believe that there 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:36.440 are some instances where it's now and the religious community 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:38.600 is going to eat me up for this, and personally, 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:43.760 I don't care, Okay, for the fact, I really don't. 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:49.080 For the fact is. The fact is, I'm a realist. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:51.320 I'm a realist, and even in the. 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:53.640 Religious community, and I know this is not a religious show, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.080 but even the religious community, I can find instance after 0:15:56.080 --> 0:16:00.000 the instance throughout scripture where people have divorced and gotten remarried, divorce, 0:16:00.280 --> 0:16:02.240 got remarried because. 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:05.800 I believe that, you know, the ideal situation is the 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.560 marry one person that stayed with him forever. That's the 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:11.600 ideal situation where doesn't always happen. No, I'm a second time. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.080 I was. I was married once before. My wife and 0:16:14.080 --> 0:16:16.520 I we both second time. You know, the first when 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.560 we were young, we were dumb, we had no knowledge, 0:16:18.560 --> 0:16:20.800 we knew nothing of what we were doing. We made 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.360 very bad decisions, incredibly bad decisions. All we stuck with 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:29.480 those decisions until we die. Well, you know, circumstances made 0:16:29.520 --> 0:16:32.720 it so that we could not stick with those decisions, 0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:35.520 and so we got we divorced, and then we found 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:38.040 each other. And I believe we did a good job 0:16:38.080 --> 0:16:40.120 in finding each other and making that decision to love. 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:45.280 But I do think that, you know it, marriage can 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:51.040 be difficult, but you know, there are some situations we're leaving. 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:52.360 Each of them might be the answer. 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.080 I mean, I actually had therapists in both of my 0:16:57.160 --> 0:17:02.200 marriages tell me that that it was not savable, So 0:17:02.360 --> 0:17:05.280 you know, I mean, it's you know, I've gotten that advice, 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:07.240 and it did feel good to at least feel like 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.760 a professional agreed with the situation. Can I ask you 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:14.920 a question, a personal question, pastor cal you, what has 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:19.360 been the biggest challenge in your marriage? 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:31.639 That's good. That's good, as Tej's. That's good, Robot. Probably 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:36.320 the biggest challenge in my marriage and our marriage. We're 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:42.520 a blended family. I had two children from a previous marriage. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.760 My wife came in with our incredible daughter. I had 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.080 two boys and still do have two boys. They all 0:17:48.119 --> 0:17:50.800 live here now. We consider ourselves one family. We've gone 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.000 through a lot of changes, a lot of trials and 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:58.000 what have you. But I think that raising kids in 0:17:58.040 --> 0:18:00.320 a blended family has been our biggest challene. So I 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:02.840 think anything that Wynnie and I has gone, we've gone 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:05.520 through that we have been able to overcome it. We've 0:18:05.840 --> 0:18:08.520 we've had arguments, yes, we've had some money ones, you know, 0:18:08.600 --> 0:18:11.920 and we we understood something that we've never done. We've 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:14.399 never mentioned the D word. We don't even bring it up, 0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.560 even no matter how bad it gets. And it's it's 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:19.000 different because we both got married, we're a little older. 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.240 You know, we've gone through stuff before. You know, we 0:18:22.520 --> 0:18:24.120 we knew the real deal and we knew that once 0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.000 we got married. Okay, fine, this is it forever And 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:30.120 we've stuck to that. But I think the biggest challenge 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:34.639 has been raising children. And for me, my kids were 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.680 a little older, you know, a teenager and one in 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.200 his late teens and one in as mid early teens. 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:47.840 And then raising those kids with us having different parenting 0:18:47.880 --> 0:18:53.560 styles and just making that whole thing work has been 0:18:53.640 --> 0:19:01.159 a pain in okay, But we're at a point now 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.199 where all that hard work and all that difficulty is 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:09.800 paying off and we're like, hey, you know, we actually 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.760 getting along now. Everybody's great. You know, I think everybody 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:16.639 loved me, so it's it's a good thing now. But man, 0:19:16.960 --> 0:19:17.879 it was tough. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.800 We we can relate. We got to the other side 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:23.720 of that not too terribly long ago, in the in 0:19:23.800 --> 0:19:26.159 recent months, so we know what that feels like. And 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.359 like you're saying that that was the biggest challenge, But 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.480 something else you've you've always said, no matter what do 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:34.240 you think your problem is in your relationship, whether that's finances, 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.480 whether that's fidelity, whether that's blended fans, whatever, you said, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:40.440 that's not the problem. The problem is how you're communicating 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:43.960 about that problem. So it's still even with your case, 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:47.200 would you say It's still all about communication, oh man. 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:51.719 Absolutely absolutely, there is nothing to people cannot overcome if 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:55.040 they're willing to be vulnerable and talk about it, listen 0:19:55.080 --> 0:19:58.480 to each other's opinions, relent, give up when you know 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.560 you're wrong, Okay, give in and understand that even if 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:05.080 you're right, you have to extend grace and those two 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.000 people can then come together and find a solution. I 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.199 believe that. And it's and I'm glad you said that 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.440 because you know I wrote about that in my book 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:13.919 right there, in case you didn't know. 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:16.640 Yeah, marriage a for punks, right. 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:22.399 I believe that how you communicate about it, it is 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:26.240 absolutely it's vital to your success. With my wife and I, 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:31.080 how we communicate about our dislike and I mean that 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:36.600 our dislike of our children. And that's tough, that's tough, 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:39.000 but you will me be straight. Let's be straight. 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:41.640 We get it. We get it. 0:20:42.440 --> 0:20:45.760 We love our kids. I can say without question that 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:50.680 when they absolutely loves my sons, and I absolutely love 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:55.080 our daughter, I mean her daughter, our daughter, my son, 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:58.359 our sons. I think we absolutely But do we always 0:20:58.560 --> 0:20:59.920 like them? 0:21:02.000 --> 0:21:05.160 The look on his face right now says no, no. 0:21:05.359 --> 0:21:09.360 Absolutely, not absolutely not. But how we communicate to each other, 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.000 and it will open and honest about expressing that and 0:21:12.040 --> 0:21:14.359 not taking offense at it. You know, even though it 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:16.240 might be a little offensive, we don't take offense at it, 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:18.359 not really. You know. We'll listen and we'll say, you 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:20.479 know what, I don't really like her right now. I 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:22.360 really don't like him right now. You know why, We'll 0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:24.200 tell me about it, and we talk about it. We're 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:27.080 willing because at the root of everything we're discussing, we 0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:29.920 know that we want our marriage and our family to work. 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:34.680 Yeah, I'm curious. This is always a big question people ask, 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:38.919 chemistry or compatibility. Do you have to have chemistry? Do 0:21:38.960 --> 0:21:41.880