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Speaker 1: When you get everything you thought you wanted and you

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Speaker 1: still feel empty.

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Speaker 2: You realized, Wow, that was not what I was supposed

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Speaker 2: to be chasing. This is one of the most remarkable,

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Speaker 2: amazing stories in hip hop.

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Speaker 1: Russ I know whatever I want, what I want, I

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Speaker 1: love it.

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Speaker 2: I thought, I'm never going to get depressed. What does

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Speaker 2: that even mean?

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Speaker 1: I don't need Any'll look and it's like, deep down

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Speaker 1: you wanted everyone though. How strong of a man are

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Speaker 1: you if you're scared to face yourself straight up?

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Speaker 3: Before we jump into this episode, I'd like to invite

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Speaker 3: you to join this community to hear more interviews that

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Speaker 3: will help you become happier, healthier, and more healed. All

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Speaker 3: I want you to do is click on the subscribe button.

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Speaker 3: I love your support. It's incredible to see all your comments,

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Speaker 3: and we're just getting started. I can't wait to go

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Speaker 3: on this journey with you. Thank you so much for subscribing.

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Speaker 3: It means the world to me.

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Speaker 2: The best selling author in the most The number one

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Speaker 2: healthy wellness podcast Purpose with Jay Shetty.

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Speaker 3: Hey everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one

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Speaker 3: health podcast in the world. Thanks to each and every

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Speaker 3: one of you that come back every week. To listen,

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Speaker 3: learn and grow. Our mission and community is all about

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Speaker 3: making the world happier, healthier, and more healed. And today's

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Speaker 3: guest is someone who is a favorite of yours, of

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Speaker 3: the community. He came on once before, you loved it

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Speaker 3: this The clips from that episode are going viral every

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Speaker 3: week on TikTok. We can't keep up with it. We

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Speaker 3: just keep sending stuff to each other. I've been so

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Speaker 3: excited for this moment to have him back on the show,

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Speaker 3: because when I have an instant connection with someone where

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Speaker 3: you feel like you get along, you vibe, it's so

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Speaker 3: rare that you want to make it happen again and again.

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Speaker 3: We waited like two to three years, but here we are.

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Speaker 3: I'm welcoming back. The One and only Russ. Russ is

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Speaker 3: a thirty year old multi platinum rapper, singer, songwriter, producer,

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Speaker 3: best selling author. Russ proved that he didn't need a

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Speaker 3: major label to surpass over ten billion streams on Spotify

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Speaker 3: and Apple Music. Get on Forbes twenty nineteen thirty under

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Speaker 3: thirty and make the Forbes Cash Kings at number twenty

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Speaker 3: for most earned sellout arenas across the US and around

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Speaker 3: the globe. I've become one of the most popular engage

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Speaker 3: rappers and thought leaders in the world right now. If

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Speaker 3: you haven't read it already, we talked about this last time.

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Speaker 3: Russ has self help book It's All in Your Head.

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Speaker 3: I highly recommend. And now we're talking about is new

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Speaker 3: album which is out now called Santiago. Please welcome to

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Speaker 3: the show, the One and Only Russ.

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Speaker 2: Wow, what intro? What's going on here?

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Speaker 3: Man?

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Speaker 2: You have to do all of that stuff.

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Speaker 1: And it's such an interesting thing hearing like intros like that.

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Speaker 1: I guess it snaps me into like being seven and

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Speaker 1: being nineteen when all this was still just like a

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Speaker 1: complete fantasy. It's hard to feel it. It's hard to

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Speaker 1: feel the success of it. And this is what I've like,

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Speaker 1: we're just gonna dive right in, but it's hard to

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Speaker 1: feel the success of it because a lot of me

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Speaker 1: struggles with like just not feeling good enough for myself,

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Speaker 1: so like none of it registers, you know, And that's

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Speaker 1: what I've been working on, and that's kind of what

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Speaker 1: Santiago addresses. A lot is sort of this like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: made the Forbes this and plaques, but it didn't move

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Speaker 1: the needle, you know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's hard. How do you go about that? I mean,

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Speaker 3: like you, I mean you dived in, So don't blame me. Now,

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Speaker 3: you know, when you think about the idea of being

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Speaker 3: enough for yourself, and how do you even start to

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Speaker 3: comprehend what that even means? Because I think, as you

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Speaker 3: were saying, when you're young, yeah, being enough just means

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Speaker 3: what being enough means to the world. Like you're like, oh,

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Speaker 3: if I get those sneakers, then I'll be enough because

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Speaker 3: my friends will think I'm cool. Or if you're into academics,

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Speaker 3: you'll be like, oh, if I get this grade, my

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Speaker 3: parents will think that I made it. And then all

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Speaker 3: of a sudden, none of those things add up. So

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Speaker 3: how do you even go about thinking about what being

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Speaker 3: enough means, especially in a culture that's comparing and always

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Speaker 3: putting you up against other people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard for me because I think it

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Speaker 1: does start in childhood, and I think it started with,

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Speaker 1: you know, wanting to meet the standard that my dad said,

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Speaker 1: and you know my dad, who I love him, and

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Speaker 1: disclaimer before like this interview goes more, It's like I

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Speaker 1: love my parents and they have done I think a

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Speaker 1: great job, and I don't blame them for anything. There's

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Speaker 1: just realities that have happened that, like, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: experiences that I have that I now have to deal

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Speaker 1: with and learn from, et cetera. But my dad's standard

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Speaker 1: was perfection a lot of times, you know, and he

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Speaker 1: was very critical and so for me, you know, his

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Speaker 1: metric it was impossible to me. I ended up adopting

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Speaker 1: it as my own, you know. And so the inner

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Speaker 1: voice for a long time it was my dad's inner

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Speaker 1: voice of you know, that's not good enough. Nah, you know,

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Speaker 1: you got a ninety two on the test. If you

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Speaker 1: would have studied, you got a hundred. But it's still

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Speaker 1: in a but you know, little things like that are

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Speaker 1: shown him music early on and career stuff and just

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Speaker 1: in general, right, And but that inner voice that used

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Speaker 1: to be his became my own inner voice. So now

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Speaker 1: like it becomes this sort of of inner critic that

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Speaker 1: when I go platinum, it's like it doesn't do it.

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Speaker 1: Maybe double platinum will maybe triple Oh how much money

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Speaker 1: did you make?

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Speaker 2: Ten oh?

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Speaker 1: Maybe eleven million will make you feel good? And so

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Speaker 1: you keep chasing the next thing, thinking that's what's going

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Speaker 1: to make you feel good about yourself. And I think

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Speaker 1: to reference, like the Rick Rubin interview. I think he

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Speaker 1: mentioned something where it's like, you get the number one album,

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Speaker 1: you get all this stuff, and it doesn't do what

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Speaker 1: you wanted it to do, and you feel emptier than ever.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's kind of the place I got

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Speaker 1: to was I got the money, the house, to this

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Speaker 1: and whatever, and that's how you know there's really something missing,

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Speaker 1: because how do you get all that and you still

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Speaker 1: don't feel good? And it's a really empty feeling because

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Speaker 1: most people in the world think that the reason why

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Speaker 1: they're not happy and not feeling enough is all these

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Speaker 1: things that they'll probably never get. And it's kind of

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Speaker 1: this beautiful, blissfully ignorant place to live because you just

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Speaker 1: get to like always have this idea that nah, I know,

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Speaker 1: like I'm gonna keep going towards this, and I know

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Speaker 1: this is what's gonna give me happiness, even though you'll

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Speaker 1: probably never get it right. Most people won't ever see.

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Speaker 2: A million dollars or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But for the people who get in by and I

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Speaker 1: want no sympathy for like, oh, we don't feel bad

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Speaker 1: for you.

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Speaker 2: You're a millionaire, get over it.

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Speaker 1: But it's like when you get everything you thought you

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Speaker 1: wanted and you still feel empty. You realize that, wow,

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Speaker 1: that was not what I was supposed to be chasing,

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Speaker 1: and there's a bigger hole here, and now I need

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Speaker 1: to grow down, you know, and I need to look

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Speaker 1: internal because external didn't do it.

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Speaker 2: And that's what Oasis is.

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Speaker 3: What about on the album, right, Yeah, Oasis is the

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Speaker 3: closest track to that feeling, or.

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Speaker 1: So Oasis was sort of this fool's paradise is what

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Speaker 1: the idea behind that song was. It was like I

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Speaker 1: got the house, the life. Everything on surface looked like, okay,

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Speaker 1: you did it, and internally though, I was still a mess.

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Speaker 1: I was joking with you, you know, off camera, like

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Speaker 1: last time we talked, you know, I was thirty pounds

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Speaker 1: over Wait, it was just proportioned nicely, so it didn't

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Speaker 1: wasn't It wasn't like too big in any one place.

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Speaker 1: But I was thirty pounds overweight. I was drinking too much,

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Speaker 1: I was eating too much. I had no discipline over

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Speaker 1: my thoughts, my eating habits. I had no discipline over

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Speaker 1: my sexual energy, things like that. So it was really

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Speaker 1: like I was a glutton, you know. But the way

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Speaker 1: that is dressed up sometimes you're a rock star you're

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Speaker 1: a king, you know, And so oasis is about on surface. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're eating good, you're you know, you're you're gaining weight,

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Speaker 1: but because you're getting money and you're eating good and

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Speaker 1: you're sleeping with random women and drinking. But it's all

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Speaker 1: good because look, another plaque just came in, and more

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Speaker 1: money came in, another sold out show, and it was

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Speaker 1: sort of poking Like that whole song is sort of

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Speaker 1: like poking fun at me because I'm in my little oasis.

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Speaker 1: I'm distracted by like, look at my house, look at

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Speaker 1: my life?

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Speaker 3: What?

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Speaker 1: Like?

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Speaker 3: I love what you just said. You're like you're distracted, yeah,

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Speaker 3: by the gold. Yeah, and you're distracted by the shining

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Speaker 3: lights and the bright things and the plaques. When you're

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Speaker 3: that distracted, how do you open up your eyes? Like

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Speaker 3: how do you even get to a point now where

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Speaker 3: you're able to look back and go? I was distracted.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm a bit more awake, and I'm working on

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Speaker 3: this stuff because I can imagine that it gets so loud.

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Speaker 3: You're a rock star, you're a king, you're all these things,

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Speaker 3: and then all of a sudden you've got to kind

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Speaker 3: of like quiet that down and go. But I'm still

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Speaker 3: not happy. How do you get that breakthrough? Because I

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Speaker 3: feel like we're all the best AT's setting ourselves up

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Speaker 3: for failure. Yeah, and we're all the best at avoiding

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Speaker 3: advice when it's good. Like I know when I'm wrong

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Speaker 3: because when my wife says something and I know she's right,

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Speaker 3: and I don't want to admit it because I know

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Speaker 3: she's right, and that's what. But it's that awareness piece

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Speaker 3: is so hard. How did you what was the moment

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Speaker 3: for you? Because you are killing it, you're still killing it.

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Speaker 3: You looked well then to me, you looked well to

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Speaker 3: me today like you're great, right, So, and I really

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Speaker 3: enjoyed your company last time and I'm enjoying your company

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Speaker 3: this time. So externally, yeah, you could argue, well, what's

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Speaker 3: going on?

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Speaker 2: As men, we get good at masking it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's part of like, you know, I have a

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Speaker 1: long answer for this, but go and go for it.

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Speaker 1: First of all, therapy is kind of what like not

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Speaker 1: woke me up, but it helped. But something I learned

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Speaker 1: in therapy is this idea that you know, society measures

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Speaker 1: a man based off of how much they can carry,

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Speaker 1: how far they can carry it, and how alone they

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Speaker 1: can carry it. And I think for a lot of men,

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Speaker 1: we have become professional hiders of our pain. And so

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Speaker 1: while I was quote unquote distracted, what woke me up

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Speaker 1: to what was going on was that there was psychological

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Speaker 1: warfare and internal chaos constantly anyway, you know, I like,

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Speaker 1: I just kept pushing it down, pushing it down. But

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Speaker 1: I knew it was there because I was pushing it down,

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Speaker 1: and it just got to a point where I just

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Speaker 1: had a breakdown one day. It just you push it

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Speaker 1: down enough and at some point you can't push it anymore,

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Speaker 1: and it, you know, overflows in it. And what I

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Speaker 1: learned is when you're burying it, burying it, bearing it,

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Speaker 1: when it does finally just explode, it's always going to be.

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Speaker 2: At the worst time.

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Speaker 1: And that time came right before a European tour that

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Speaker 1: I had scheduled, and I had to cancel it because

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Speaker 1: I was like my body and spirit and mind just

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Speaker 1: shut down. I just couldn't even do it. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: even like go through the motions of acting like I

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Speaker 1: could perform. And you know, through therapy and talking every week,

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Speaker 1: you know, and really really being vulnerable and being honest

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Speaker 1: with my therapist, which I couldn't wait for. Like, getting

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Speaker 1: a therapist has been at the top of my to

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Speaker 1: do list for like four years, and I just never did.

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Speaker 1: I never got around to it because I just always,

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Speaker 1: once again was like, do I really need one?

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Speaker 2: To look how good my life is? Like nah, I

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Speaker 2: think I'm dripping.

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Speaker 1: But it just got to this point, man, where I

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Speaker 1: was like, I need to talk to someone because I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm going insane. It's just been so helpful

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Speaker 1: because I'm like I want to figure out what's going

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Speaker 1: on internally.

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Speaker 2: So it's like, well, I don't know how to feel,

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Speaker 2: so let's act like it doesn't exist.

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Speaker 3: You know. I'm so glad you raised this because I've

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Speaker 3: been looking for the person I'm about to introduce a

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Speaker 3: conversation that I've been trying to find the right person

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Speaker 3: to have it with, and it just clicked me in

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Speaker 3: this moment that you're that person, like literally, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's such an important conversation that I've been trying

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Speaker 3: to navigate. I have it offline a lot, but I

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Speaker 3: haven't really had it online, so this will be the

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Speaker 3: first time that I talk about it here. But it's like,

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Speaker 3: you just raised that as a man especially we're good

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Speaker 3: at masking it. And I think men in today's society,

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Speaker 3: being a man in today's society is such an interesting time.

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Speaker 3: And you come across to me as you know, like

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Speaker 3: you're and you can describe in your own sense, but

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Speaker 3: you're a confident man. You know you're a man's man.

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Speaker 3: I'd say as well, like, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: How you see yourself. That's why I don't know how

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Speaker 2: you see yourself.

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Speaker 3: I was going to ask you because you you so

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Speaker 3: confidently are like, hey, man, I need to find help.

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Speaker 2: I went to therapy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but at the same time, you're a rapper on

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Speaker 3: stage is like up in like the best bass and

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Speaker 3: so I'm like, when you look at that paradox, I

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Speaker 3: love that because I'm thinking about what is it that

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Speaker 3: you think men are struggling with most and maybe it's

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Speaker 3: even for your own friends, the people you hang out with,

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Speaker 3: Like what do you think men are struggling within today's society?

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Speaker 3: Because I don't feel we talk about that enough with

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Speaker 3: like what the struggle is?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I mean so much, But I think

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Speaker 1: I think men are struggling with being in tune with

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Speaker 1: their own emotions and feeling safe and feeling like they

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Speaker 1: have permission from themselves to feel what they're feeling because

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Speaker 1: society has told them get over it effectively, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I think for me, that's what I did for

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Speaker 1: the you know, for the most part. And I think

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Speaker 1: my generation let alone, like generations before me, like we

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Speaker 1: all saw our dads probably just like get over it

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Speaker 1: and figure it out, and you know, brush brush the dirt.

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Speaker 2: Off and keep going. And that's what I did.

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Speaker 1: And I would just put little trickles of what I

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Speaker 1: was feeling in the music.

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Speaker 2: Like it's so funny, you know.

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Speaker 1: When I had that breakdown, when I finally just was

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Speaker 1: honest with myself and got a therapist, I would go

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Speaker 1: back and listen to old songs, like songs like Nobody

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Speaker 1: Knows or songs like All to You, and it's like

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Speaker 1: these were like such cries for help that I think

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Speaker 1: made me feel more insane because I would put them

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Speaker 1: out and they just became songs, you know, and it's

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Speaker 1: sort of downplayed what was really going on, because it's

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Speaker 1: like I take a very vulnerable, real emotion of sadness

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Speaker 1: and pain and confusion and feeling lost and don't know

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Speaker 1: what to do and turn it into two and a

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Speaker 1: half minutes of music and now it just becomes numbers

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Speaker 1: on a screen and streams.

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Speaker 2: And how loud is it at the shows?

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Speaker 1: And I forget, fans forget, people forget, but most importantly

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Speaker 1: I forget that, Oh no, like this was like really

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Speaker 1: what I was going through?

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Speaker 2: This isn't just like a lullaby. Yeah, I think you're right.

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Speaker 3: I feel like when I talk to people, I feel

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Speaker 3: like men are feeling a lot of pressure to be

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Speaker 3: a lot of things, to be successful, to have it together,

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Speaker 3: to have some emotional maturity, figured out their mental health.

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Speaker 3: And again, you know, every gender has their own pressures

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Speaker 3: that come with it, but I think I know a

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Speaker 3: lot of men who feel scared to share that pressure

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Speaker 3: because they feel like you said that they shouldn't have it,

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Speaker 3: like they're not allowed to have that pressure.

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Speaker 2: I think you're one of.

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Speaker 3: The few music guys that has found a way of

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Speaker 3: intertwining mental health and music in a way that it's

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Speaker 3: not cheesy and it's not like corny, and it's not

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Speaker 3: like it comes across like when I listen to you,

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Speaker 3: I'm just like, God, that's a bar that's like, you know,

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Speaker 3: you can appreciate it just because it's good music. And

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Speaker 3: then knowing that you have this conscious side to yourself.

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Speaker 3: Was that like always at the forefront of when you

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Speaker 3: got into music or was it something that evolved with

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Speaker 3: time because of your journey, Because I think it's quite

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Speaker 3: it's quite a hard balance to talk about meaningful stuff

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Speaker 3: in a way that doesn't come across as cheesy and corny.

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Speaker 3: So how do how have you found a way of

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Speaker 3: being able to do that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I always was looking for answers, you know,

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Speaker 1: And I think I always as a consumer of music,

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Speaker 1: I always like substance and lyrics and things that I

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Speaker 1: could you know, things that meant something, you know, things

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Speaker 1: that maybe could help me. And as an artist when

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Speaker 1: I wanted to make my own I was trying to

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Speaker 1: find answers. Like my creative side was trying to piece

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Speaker 1: together these other sides of me, like what was going

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Speaker 1: on with my family, with my friends, with my relationship,

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Speaker 1: with my career. Like the creative side of me would

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Speaker 1: come in and be like, maybe this means that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe what you're feeling means this, maybe.

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Speaker 1: You know, And like like I said, there's like all

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Speaker 1: these little like easter eggs. I guess throughout my catalog

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Speaker 1: of me trying to figure it out. And so I

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Speaker 1: think I was just naturally an am naturally a curious

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Speaker 1: person and an ambitious person, and so like ambitious in

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Speaker 1: the sense that I really want to figure out what

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Speaker 1: is going on with me, Like I want to know

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Speaker 1: why I think the way I think, where that came from,

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Speaker 1: and I think in the past, it's funny when you're

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Speaker 1: like you're a confident man, etc.

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Speaker 2: Etc.

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Speaker 1: I was omnipotent, and I've learned that that's not confidence.

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Speaker 2: You know, that's insecurity.

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Speaker 1: And you know I because I mean, this is so

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Speaker 1: so multilayered. But it's funny your shirts as imperfections because

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Speaker 1: it really stems from me being a perfectionist, right, So

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Speaker 1: like me being a perfectionist, there's no room for me

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Speaker 1: to not be right, there's no room for me to

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Speaker 1: not know, like not act like I know everything and

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Speaker 1: what's going on. And I got being a perfectionist from

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Speaker 1: like the standard that my dad said, which ended up

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Speaker 1: becoming my own standard. So early on in my career,

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Speaker 1: I had this omnipotence where like I knew everything, everything

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Speaker 1: I was doing was right, and I felt like I

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Speaker 1: had to act like that because if you're a perfectionist,

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Speaker 1: there is no room for criticism. Perfectionists are trying to

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Speaker 1: run from criticism, and help is coded as criticism to

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Speaker 1: a perfectionist. So I didn't want any help, and if

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Speaker 1: you I had to help, I took it as a

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Speaker 1: critique and it threatened my idea of being a perfectionist.

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Speaker 3: Wow, you know, like I'm trying to figure out the answers. So, like, dude,

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Speaker 3: one thing you said to me last time. I've quoted

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Speaker 3: this so many times in interviews when I get asked

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Speaker 3: questions about like, oh, what was one of your favorite takeaways,

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Speaker 3: and it's from our interview, and it's you said that

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Speaker 3: when you sometimes get in the studio. At that time,

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Speaker 3: you were like, I get rid of all my friends. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: so I can be in there alone and make weird

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Speaker 3: sounds that I wouldn't make when people are in the

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Speaker 3: room because I might be scared of what they think.

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Speaker 3: And I've said that to so many people, and everyone's

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Speaker 3: always like quite blown away or taken aback because I

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Speaker 3: guess it's not a common thing that artists do. And

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Speaker 3: it stayed with me for so long. But I was

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Speaker 3: interested by what you just said, Like how did your

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Speaker 3: immediate I guess your immediate circle. I'm assuming you're around

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Speaker 3: people that you love, but how do you think? Then

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Speaker 3: the widest circle responds to you saying things like I

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Speaker 3: need help, therapy is good for you, and be like

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Speaker 3: you know, like do you have do you feel like?

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Speaker 3: The wider circle goes automatically like do you think the

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Speaker 3: world's got to a place now where we're like, yes, Russ,

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Speaker 3: that makes sense, You're right? Or do you still le

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Speaker 3: people around you going no, you don't need therapy, man,

390
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Speaker 3: you just need to go smoke or blow some cash

391
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Speaker 3: or like yeah, because you come from the rap music world,

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Speaker 3: I wonder what do you hear?

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Speaker 1: I think my friends, like my immediate circle. My friends

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Speaker 1: were all very supportive. My family was supportive as well,

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Speaker 1: but they're obviously like, what's going on because my identity

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Speaker 1: has been attached when it comes to my family, my

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Speaker 1: identity has been attached to helping them, you know. That's

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Speaker 1: how I felt safe. That was the role I played.

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Speaker 1: And I've never asked for help. I've never received help.

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Speaker 1: I've never come off like I needed help. And so

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Speaker 1: when they saw that I needed therapy, I'm canceling tour

402
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Speaker 1: it's like nine one one in my house, you know,

403
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Speaker 1: as far as like my family and so they were

404
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Speaker 1: just like really concerned. But I think as far as

405
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Speaker 1: the world's concerned, I do think the world is more

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Speaker 1: open and receptive to the idea of men needing help

407
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Speaker 1: and that's okay. And even if they're not open to it,

408
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,040
Speaker 1: that is naturally where this is going. Like, I just

409
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Speaker 1: feel like the pendulum has to swing at some point.

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Speaker 2: And this whole idea.

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Speaker 1: That men have to just be like you know, military

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Speaker 1: men who show nothing, no emotions and like figure it

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Speaker 1: out and don't ask for help and we do it ourselves.

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Speaker 2: It's like that is not sustainable.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's just not Men need to communicate and

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Speaker 1: collaborate with each other and you know, not feel so alone.

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Speaker 3: How have you found the reaction to that from like

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Speaker 3: straight women? Do straight women find men more or less

419
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Speaker 3: attractive or good partners based on that kind of approach

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Speaker 3: and vulnerability, Like, I think.

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Speaker 2: It depends on the women.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think a lot of times there's great

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Speaker 1: women out there who will respond well to them.

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Speaker 2: There's women who won't.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of times with men, you know,

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Speaker 1: they are scared to show that vulnerability because of what

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Speaker 1: a life lot of women have displayed, which is like,

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Speaker 1: now I'm not attracted to you. And it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I said on enough on Santiago, some women looking at

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Speaker 1: you lesser if there's tears on your cheek, but if

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Speaker 1: there's tears tattooed, that same girl as a freak. So

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Speaker 1: they're attracted to the pain unless they hear the pain speak.

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Speaker 1: So it's like it's really interesting because when you talk

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Speaker 1: to when you talk to women, when you thank you,

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Speaker 1: but it's like when you talk to women and you

436
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,440
Speaker 1: like kind of see where their heads at, you see

437
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,040
Speaker 1: that they kind of like a lot of women want

438
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 1: this sort of rough and rugged guy who's like he's

439
00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,360
Speaker 1: tough and all these things, but like you don't want

440
00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,320
Speaker 1: him to talk about it because now he's soft. But

441
00:20:42,359 --> 00:20:44,520
Speaker 1: it's like, so you want him to have some pain

442
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,760
Speaker 1: because that's what makes him the rough and rugged, you know,

443
00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:51,520
Speaker 1: but you just don't want to hear about it. And

444
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: so where does he go? Then it's oh, so you

445
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,320
Speaker 1: just want him to be quiet. But then you're wondering

446
00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:00,560
Speaker 1: why he can't open up to you. Oh, well, he

447
00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,479
Speaker 1: just doesn't open up to me, which one is it.

448
00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: This isn't build a bear, you.

449
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?

450
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 1: And I feel women too, who It's like dudes want

451
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:10,600
Speaker 1: the girl doesn't. That's why it's like, find someone that's

452
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:13,560
Speaker 1: compatible with you and gets you and rock out and

453
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: forget about the rest.

454
00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:16,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, but I love the way you do. I mean,

455
00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,400
Speaker 3: the lyric speaks for itself, but that is summed up

456
00:21:19,480 --> 00:21:21,639
Speaker 3: so well. And by the way, everyone who's listening, I'm

457
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 3: not trying to take sides or you get where I'm

458
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,600
Speaker 3: coming from, Like, I'm just trying to come from a

459
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,119
Speaker 3: place of like where are we It's exactly what Russia said,

460
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 3: like we want something to be tough, but without the pain,

461
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 3: without talking about the pain.

462
00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 2: And it's like that's just not real. It doesn't exist.

463
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:41,520
Speaker 3: The idea that someone is tough and hasn't been through

464
00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 3: pain is non existent. And at some point that person

465
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 3: is going to need to express or connect or collaborate,

466
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 3: as you said, either with you or other people about

467
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: their pain. This also applies to women, It applies to

468
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 3: every gender that people who've been through pain are going

469
00:21:56,080 --> 00:21:59,400
Speaker 3: to have stories to tell. And if you want someone tough,

470
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 3: chances are that they've got grit and resilience because they've

471
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:05,359
Speaker 3: had massive loss in their life. Well, so I think

472
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 3: you just summed up that is exactly what I was

473
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,680
Speaker 3: trying to get through it, Like pain.

474
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:13,040
Speaker 1: Is a prerequisite for being a tough, hardened man, hardened

475
00:22:13,080 --> 00:22:17,359
Speaker 1: from what you know, hardened by what pain experience. So

476
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: it's like, I just I do think it's really interesting

477
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: for the group of women who want vulnerability and openness

478
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,919
Speaker 1: emotionally from men, who they also almost shame into thinking

479
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,960
Speaker 1: that keep your pain to yourself though.

480
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then there's the other side. I find I

481
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:37,040
Speaker 3: have a lot of friends whore like my man doesn't

482
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 3: open up right, Like, I have a lot of friends

483
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 3: who're like, look, I want to be there for him,

484
00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 3: like I'm ready to listen to him, Like I want

485
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 3: him to be more open about his way, because men

486
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:46,440
Speaker 3: are scared that if.

487
00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 2: They do, oh wow, never mind, this is unattractive.

488
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because it goes against what we as men

489
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: have been taught makes a strong man. It's not personal

490
00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: to you, it's how society has set us up. We've

491
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: been brainwashed, you know, would you say yours is just

492
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 1: you're so seeking the answers, like what gave you the

493
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: courage to break that as someone who's a stage performer, Yeah,

494
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 1: crushing it? Who has who has actually everything that ninety

495
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 1: nine percent of men won. Yeah, what gave you the

496
00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: Was it courage or was it just like I just

497
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,240
Speaker 1: need this, like you know, yeah, it was out of desperation,

498
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,160
Speaker 1: to be honest, And also, I think like being isolated

499
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: from society plays like a part in it. Like I'm

500
00:23:23,359 --> 00:23:25,399
Speaker 1: not out and about, I'm not trying to be on

501
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: the scene and make friends. I like there's a part

502
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: of like being in my bubble that sort of gives

503
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: me that safety net of like, Okay, if I'm vulnerable,

504
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 1: it's like, who does that? Really, I'm not worried if

505
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: that girl, this person is going to feel a way

506
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 1: like it's kind of just me, you know that.

507
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 2: How do you keep that distance?

508
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,120
Speaker 3: I feel like people struggle with that even if they're

509
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 3: not and in entertainment, Yeah, people get glued to social media,

510
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 3: they get addicted. How are you keeping distance when you're

511
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,719
Speaker 3: so interconnected to the industry? In one sense, I think

512
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 3: it's also just a testament though to my fans I

513
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,919
Speaker 3: think I've had, Like I'm really fortunate to have the

514
00:24:02,000 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 3: kind of fans that I do that are actually supporters

515
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,159
Speaker 3: of me. And from the beginning, I've tried to be

516
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 3: as authentic.

517
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: As I was in that moment, and I've tried to

518
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 1: be vulnerable and introspective, and I think all of that

519
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,639
Speaker 1: played a part. And when I did have to cancel

520
00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: tour and when I have let fans in on like

521
00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 1: the journey of mental health and therapy, then being open

522
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: to it because this isn't coming out of complete left field.

523
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: As far as the introspection and the vulnerability, I'm a

524
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 1: vulnerable artist. I never was like that worried like if

525
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: my male fans would be like, oh, we're out, because

526
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: it's like y'all are singing losing control.

527
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 2: Yeah you know what I mean.

528
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:44,560
Speaker 1: Like y'all are singing love songs and heartbreak songs, so

529
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying straight up, And it's like

530
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: everyone's at a different place in their journey and like, however,

531
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: like wherever you're at is fine.

532
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

533
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 3: I remember that when I was when I was a teenager,

534
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 3: when I thought I was that's when I thought I

535
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 3: was cool, right, It was like I was that kind

536
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 3: of person that didn't understand and how someone could get

537
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,719
Speaker 3: depressed because I didn't get it like it was like

538
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 3: that four years ago.

539
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: It's so bad. Yeah, you have that mind to you

540
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 2: like what does that mean? Right?

541
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,479
Speaker 3: Like, and then you go through your own stuff and

542
00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, I get it now. And I found

543
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: that for me, I found that life has this really

544
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 3: strange way of making you go through things that you

545
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 3: thought shouldn't affect anyone. Right, So if you in your

546
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 3: head have an idea of like, I don't understand that,

547
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 3: I don't know how that affects someone, just wait literally,

548
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:36,280
Speaker 3: and that has happened to me so many times. And

549
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,359
Speaker 3: so whenever now I have that thought, I literally catch

550
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 3: it and I go, let's get rid of that thought,

551
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,760
Speaker 3: because let me actually try and be curious about it

552
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 3: rather than look at it in a condescending way, because

553
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 3: chances are if I see it in a derogatory way

554
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,160
Speaker 3: or a negligent way, I'm going to have to experience

555
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 3: it just for life to teach me that it's real.

556
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I got humbled for sure by.

557
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,120
Speaker 1: That kind of thing where it's like I realize back

558
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: to me being omnipotent, I got humbled by realizing, oh,

559
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 1: I don't know everything, you know, because I thought I'm

560
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 1: never going to get depressed?

561
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:08,480
Speaker 2: What does that even mean?

562
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 1: Like what's that you know? And then all of a

563
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: sudden you're like, okay, so this can happen to me.

564
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, describe that for me? What was that for you?

565
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,239
Speaker 3: Like, I think you hear and I think I can

566
00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 3: ask you this because I feel like you articulate your

567
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 3: thoughts so well and you really get in there with

568
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 3: what's going on. Like so many people have said this, right,

569
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,320
Speaker 3: this idea of like you get the triple platinum, you

570
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 3: get the money, and it doesn't work, Like what actually?

571
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: And I'm asking you because I feel like you get

572
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 3: in there? What is actually not working about that?

573
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 2: Like?

574
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: What is it about that that doesn't help you feel

575
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 3: better or solve the void?

576
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 2: What is it? Why does it not work?

577
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,280
Speaker 3: Because I think so many people say that, but then

578
00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: everyone goes, oh, yeah, but you're a millionaire, you can

579
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:48,680
Speaker 3: say that. Yeah, but let's let's try to help people

580
00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:51,800
Speaker 3: out there. Because I still like I if I prefer

581
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 3: being financially safe and successful in doing what I love,

582
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 3: I do prefer that to when I was close to

583
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 3: being broke and not successful in what I did. I

584
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 3: much prefer my life right now. But I also know

585
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,720
Speaker 3: that the thing that gives me deep meaning and keeps

586
00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: me going is my purpose that's connected to my work.

587
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 3: As long as I feel I'm positively impacting people, I'm

588
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,439
Speaker 3: serving people, and I'm using my voice to make a

589
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,640
Speaker 3: difference in people's lives. That is what actually makes me happy.

590
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 3: And then what happens around it is like the best

591
00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 3: bonus of all time.

592
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: Yeah.

593
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 1: See, that's a good value to have, though, is like

594
00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 1: in good perspective for me, the plaques or whatever. It

595
00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 1: not working is really just because you're clearly or I

596
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: was clearly seeking validation subconsciously, and I thought that becoming

597
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:44,160
Speaker 1: a big artist and plaques and all that was going

598
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: to make me feel validated and make me feel like

599
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: I belong and make me feel approved and make me

600
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: feel good enough. And when I got all that and

601
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 1: I still had all of those issues, That's what.

602
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:57,520
Speaker 2: I mean by it not working.

603
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: And I agree too, like I prefer my life now

604
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: and then the alternative.

605
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: But the hole is still there.

606
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: And I think at seventeen, when I started like really

607
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: going after this, I don't know if I had the

608
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: depth in the awareness to know what I was going after.

609
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: Like I'm chasing approval and validation. But when I look back,

610
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 1: I can pinpoint certain behaviors in certain times in the

611
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: studio or whatever where I was, like where I can

612
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,360
Speaker 1: tell I wanted people to validate me, and I want

613
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 1: and I thought that rap in the industry was gonna

614
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 1: pat me on the back, you know.

615
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 2: And that's kind of what I talk about.

616
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,160
Speaker 1: And I love you boy, which is like, you know,

617
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: I just I replaced my dad with the industry, which

618
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 1: is really like wild, right, because I felt like as

619
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: a kid wanting just approval of your dad as a son,

620
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, when you don't get it, you can feel

621
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: like ostracized kind of and just like you don't belong,

622
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:01,680
Speaker 1: you're not good enough in all these things.

623
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,960
Speaker 2: And it's so strange that as a white guy.

624
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: What I chose to pick to replace my dad to

625
00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: give me approval was a craft that that I'm ostracizing

626
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: off bad, you know what I mean. It's like it's

627
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: like I picked the hardest thing to get approval from.

628
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Like I replaced my dad with an industry and started

629
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: to wrap I wanted praise in acknowledgment and picked the

630
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: profession that people who look like me don't get, you.

631
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:31,600
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?

632
00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: So it's like it was almost like I guess if

633
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 1: I could like analyze where my head was at when

634
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: I was seventeen, maybe because it's like, if I could

635
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: get approval from this thing that I love, this genre,

636
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: this lifestyle, this whole culture, then I'm officially approved, you know,

637
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: because I know how hard it is to get approval

638
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: from that. And I don't know it just but it

639
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: really stems from once again not having the self approval

640
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 1: and the self validation and thinking that someone else is

641
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: going to give it to you. And I remember talking

642
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: with my therapist and he was like, oh, I think.

643
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: I said like yeah, but you know, if I do

644
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:11,239
Speaker 1: get a number one album or number one and go

645
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,440
Speaker 1: number one on the Billboard Hot one hundred, and this

646
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 1: person says, I'm great, I'm sure, like I'll feel really good.

647
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,479
Speaker 1: He's like, you probably will for about twenty minutes, and

648
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: then I think you'll have your lowest moment of your life,

649
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: you know. And I agree, you know, because when I

650
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,160
Speaker 1: have gotten crazy accomplishments, it lasts for not that long

651
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: and I'm right back to like I'm lower because that's

652
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: another thing on the list that didn't do it. That's

653
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 1: another thing that didn't fill the whole. You know, Forbes

654
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 1: List nope, Platinum nope, by mom House nope.

655
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 2: Like none of it. You know, I see what you're saying.

656
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 3: I want that to register with people because what Russ

657
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 3: is doing, which I appreciate, is clarifying the difference. It's

658
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 3: great in and of itself. Yeah, it just doesn't feel

659
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 3: the hole inside, Like, it doesn't solve the fact that

660
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,959
Speaker 3: I don't feel better about who I am and myself.

661
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 3: It's beautiful to buy your mama house. That's awesome, Like

662
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,080
Speaker 3: it's good for her, it's great like that. That's not

663
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 3: the point. The point is it doesn't change how I

664
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: feel about my level of self worth and self esteem.

665
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

666
00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:17,280
Speaker 1: The point is like, if I thought that buy my

667
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: mama house and making the four of us and going

668
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: platinum was going to make me feel validated, approved and

669
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: like I'm good enough, then that's the mistake. That's where

670
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: you're going to feel emptier than ever because you're going

671
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: to do that, and that's not what's.

672
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 2: Going to do it.

673
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 3: You know what's really interesting for me listening to you

674
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: is so I'm kind of like where you're at with

675
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: your parents, where I love both my parents and independently

676
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 3: and in the same way. I have a good relationship

677
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:46,239
Speaker 3: with both of them today, but it wasn't always. It

678
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: wasn't that way externally and with my dad especially. So

679
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 3: my dad didn't validate me or even support me when

680
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 3: I was growing up like he would if he turned

681
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 3: up to a swim competition, because I used to swim

682
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:01,480
Speaker 3: a lot. When I'd look up at the stands, he'd

683
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: be reading his newspaper, so or if I was. I

684
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 3: played rugby for my school and it was one of

685
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,000
Speaker 3: my favorite things that I made it onto my school's

686
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: rugby team. I used to be a lot bigger growing up,

687
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: and he would never turn up to support me, and

688
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 3: so my dad wasn't there. And that was really interesting

689
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:16,680
Speaker 3: because at the time it made me just want to

690
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: get approval of my friends and like be cool and whatever,

691
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 3: and that leads you to do all sorts of dumb stuff.

692
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,160
Speaker 3: But what it ultimately led me to was I got

693
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 3: to make my own rules of what success were. So

694
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 3: not getting his version, he never had a version of

695
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 3: success for me, like he almost didn't have like this

696
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,239
Speaker 3: is what you have to be to be successful, and

697
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,880
Speaker 3: so I've always seen it as I just got freedom

698
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 3: to define what kind of man I wanted to be,

699
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 3: because my dad didn't really define what kind of man

700
00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,720
Speaker 3: he cared I would be. And it's really interesting now

701
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: because when I look at my relationship with him today,

702
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 3: he's more like a friend than he is my dad

703
00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 3: because he wasn't really fathering me. And I think where

704
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 3: I got really lucky, Like this really was like one

705
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 3: of those moments and you feel fortunate. Is I projected

706
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 3: that lack of fatherhood fortunately onto the monks. Oh so like,

707
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,960
Speaker 3: because that wasn't what I was meant to be and

708
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: I wasn't spiritual. And I really look at that as

709
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 3: like I didn't have any positive role models in my life.

710
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: I didn't have any positive male role models in my life.

711
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,320
Speaker 3: And the monks were positive male role models. And I

712
00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 3: met them at when I was eighteen years old, so important,

713
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,920
Speaker 3: so important, And the crazy thing about them is they

714
00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:32,720
Speaker 3: don't validate you. Wow, So it was like even more challenging.

715
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: But it's like you see an amazing role model who's

716
00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 3: showing you the right way, but is not trying to

717
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 3: falsely validate or approve you, So you.

718
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 2: Still have to figure yourself to do it yourself. You

719
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: still have to.

720
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 3: They're teaching you what you just said, how to do

721
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: it yourself like that, it's still you on your own.

722
00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 3: You got to live in your own mind. And when

723
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 3: you realize that, it's like, yeah, I live in my

724
00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 3: own mind. Yeah, these are my thoughts what you just

725
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 3: said earlier. I either have to em translating my dad's voice, yeah,

726
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 3: into becoming my voice, or I'm actually gonna choose what

727
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 3: I want my thoughts to be, right, And that's what

728
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 3: they were training us in so through so much fortune,

729
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: and I got to that point. Yeah, and even till

730
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 3: this day, I'm constantly just practicing that because again I

731
00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 3: haven't perfected it. I still get into the place where

732
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 3: you start hearing the noise.

733
00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: It's so funny because that's why I ended the album

734
00:34:23,560 --> 00:34:26,760
Speaker 1: with just me singing it was you all along, Because

735
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: all these things I'm chasing, validation, love, approval, patience, all

736
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:33,800
Speaker 1: of it is things that I have to give myself,

737
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: and I just I thought that everything and everyone else

738
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:38,320
Speaker 1: was going to give it to me.

739
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 3: Tell me some of the ways you've been giving it

740
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,319
Speaker 3: to yourself, because you are getting, like you said, like

741
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:44,440
Speaker 3: a lot of people get to the point, you've got

742
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: to when they're unsuccessful, so like they wait till the

743
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: record's now not getting the downloads and the streams, and

744
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: like they're not really winning the stuff and things are

745
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 3: on going on, and then you go, oh, this wasn't it.

746
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,319
Speaker 3: You're realizing it. Wow, things are hot, right, Like things

747
00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 3: are good, your new album dropping. The music sounds great,

748
00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 3: by the way, I wanted to say, like I I

749
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 3: was thankful that your team sent me there. Of course

750
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 3: the album before and it's I can't wait to play

751
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:08,959
Speaker 3: it more and more and I can't wait for everyone

752
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 3: to hear it.

753
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,959
Speaker 2: Music's awesome, And I just go.

754
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 3: You're winning and you realized it, Like what are some

755
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 3: of the things you're doing to validate yourself?

756
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 2: Like what are you doing?

757
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 1: Like that's what I'm still working on. You know, what

758
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:24,959
Speaker 1: are some of the practices to have it? I think,

759
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:28,319
Speaker 1: you know, it's having good values as one of them,

760
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:34,000
Speaker 1: values that like I can control, you know, I think

761
00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: honoring the gift is important celebrating myself, and I think

762
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: the way that I've celebrated myself which makes me feel

763
00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: good about myself is to honor my gift. And so

764
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: for example, like going to the gym for me to

765
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,480
Speaker 1: lose thirty pounds of fat, not muscle, right, thirty pounds

766
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: of fouls crazy. I did it through shame, you need

767
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: to lose weight, you know, and just talking crazy to myself.

768
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:58,680
Speaker 1: And it still worked. But I lost the weight, and

769
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: I still didn't feel good about myself. I still had

770
00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: a breakdown, you know. And so now I'm looking at

771
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:07,960
Speaker 1: going to the gym as I'm celebrating my health and

772
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: my body. I'm honoring the gift of being alive and

773
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,920
Speaker 1: being mobile, you know, and celebrating the gift of my

774
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,640
Speaker 1: creativity by going to the studio instead of looking at

775
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: going to the studio.

776
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 2: Like I need to catch a hit otherwise I'm a loser.

777
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,160
Speaker 1: It's like, nah, I'm celebrating myself every time I go

778
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 1: to the studio.

779
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 2: It's a celebration that's already a great mindset. Yeah, it's

780
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 2: better than where I was at.

781
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 3: I think what we don't realize is even if critical, judgmental,

782
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:40,680
Speaker 3: negative motivation works, Yeah, the problem is now that's all

783
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,520
Speaker 3: you have in your toolkit to motivate yourself. Right, So

784
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,319
Speaker 3: when you've lost the way you wanted to lose, you're

785
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,520
Speaker 3: now motivating yourself still through that criticism, judgment, and like

786
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 3: talking down to yourself. And even with the music. I

787
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 3: love what you just said. You feel so much more

788
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 3: abundant when you walk into something and you go, I'm

789
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 3: just here because I'm grateful to be alive.

790
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:02,000
Speaker 2: I'm happy to.

791
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 3: Be here as opposed to God if I don't write

792
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,279
Speaker 3: the next here. And I know so many musicians that

793
00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:08,360
Speaker 3: say that to me and the music, it's the hardest place.

794
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,319
Speaker 3: And I feel like I have so many people in

795
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 3: my life that are friends that feel that pressure because again,

796
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,560
Speaker 3: like you said, it's the pressure they're hearing from their management,

797
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,279
Speaker 3: their team, their fans, their fans. Potentially, if they're not

798
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,279
Speaker 3: connected to them, you're going to become irrelevant. You never

799
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 3: be as big as so and so. Didn't you see

800
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 3: what they just did and so if you don't have

801
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:32,799
Speaker 3: that healthy dialogue internally. And I do think it is

802
00:37:32,840 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 3: that for me as well. It's like I spend I

803
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: spend so much time alone just to monitor my internal dialogue.

804
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 3: Scary because it's the only way because when I'm alone,

805
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,720
Speaker 3: I can truly choose and program the thoughts in my mind,

806
00:37:49,080 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 3: whereas if I'm constantly surrounded by people and noise, it's

807
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 3: natural that it's going to seep in.

808
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: Well, sometimes the noise distracts us from looking in because

809
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: looking and it scary.

810
00:37:57,520 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 2: That's what I was doing.

811
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest reason why people don't want

812
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:01,359
Speaker 3: to spend time of.

813
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:07,359
Speaker 1: Course, especially men, because like we once again know that

814
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 1: or we have like believed that our emotions are relevant

815
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 1: and ignore them, you know, be like just completely avoid

816
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 1: feeling anything, and that's what makes you a man. And

817
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,920
Speaker 1: so I think spending time alone and meditation and doing

818
00:38:24,000 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 1: like you know, personal work is a very like it

819
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 1: feels feminine to men, it feels.

820
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 2: Soft and there.

821
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:36,960
Speaker 1: Like something interesting that I stumbled on is like, how

822
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: strong of a man are you? And how brave of

823
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,080
Speaker 1: a man are you? If you're scared to face yourself?

824
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 2: Wow?

825
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's the real bravery. Yeah, sit in a

826
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: room with yourself. That's like, that's courageous.

827
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:49,399
Speaker 2: Yeah.

828
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 3: I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier,

829
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:57,280
Speaker 3: that it's the perfection and positivity issue that we keep

830
00:38:57,360 --> 00:38:59,879
Speaker 3: thinking that everything has to be like positive and sun

831
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 3: And when I look inside of myself, I see tons

832
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 3: of a dark side and stuff that I don't want

833
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 3: to see. But I also know that that's not me

834
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 3: because of how we were trained. The idea that you know,

835
00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,960
Speaker 3: the concept in all of the monk teachings is that

836
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 3: the sun is always shining, it's just often covered by clouds,

837
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 3: and so when you look up at the sky, all

838
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 3: you see is the clouds. You don't see the sun,

839
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 3: and you think I am the clouds. So when you

840
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,640
Speaker 3: look at your thoughts, you see the cloudy thoughts and

841
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 3: you think I'm darkness. Yeah, but actually the Sun's always there,

842
00:39:33,400 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 3: it's just you can't see it. And so the light

843
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 3: that me and you are, the light that everyone who's

844
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:40,719
Speaker 3: listening and watching is is always there. It's just we're

845
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 3: just seeing all the dirt and the clouds and the

846
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 3: rain and the you know, and we then judge it

847
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 3: and see it as negative rather than the fact that, hey,

848
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 3: wait a minute, I'm I'm just going to find the light,

849
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 3: and I understand that sometimes it's going to be a

850
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,320
Speaker 3: cloudy day, just like it is outdoors.

851
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's what led me to feel in like

852
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: a fraud. That song's amazing, That's what that is is

853
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 1: because looking at the cloud, thinking you are the cloud.

854
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: And so then when people give you a compliment. You're like,

855
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:07,879
Speaker 1: they're giving you a compliment on you being the sun.

856
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: And for me, I'm like, if only you knew I

857
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: was a cloud, I would look at my shadow self

858
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 1: and the parts of me that I'm ashamed of. It

859
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: would make it impossible for me to receive love and

860
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,239
Speaker 1: compliments or anything positive. Also tied in with feeling like

861
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:25,040
Speaker 1: a fraud was me having to analyze, well, why did

862
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: my parents getting divorce actually affect me? Why did the

863
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:32,520
Speaker 1: hate coming in actually affect me? Because on surface, it

864
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,000
Speaker 1: felt so vapid, like your parents broke up and people

865
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,280
Speaker 1: don't like you, Big deal, right, But when I through

866
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,959
Speaker 1: therapy and through really growing down, that's when I learned, like, okay,

867
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: hold on. Since I was a kid, my role and

868
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: my identity came from being the savior of my family emotionally,

869
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, And I talk about it on I Love

870
00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 1: You Boy, where my dad was very reactive and my

871
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 1: mom was like fatalistic, and I was just the one

872
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,120
Speaker 1: running around knocking on everyone's door to make sure like

873
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: everyone was good after a big fight or whatever, you know,

874
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: because I was worried, genuinely worried, so the stakes were

875
00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: super high. They felt like life or death, you know,

876
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: like maybe there was going to be self harm or something.

877
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 1: And so my identity was tied to saving my family

878
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: and helping them. So when my parents got divorced, it

879
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:22,760
Speaker 1: was the ultimate blow to my identity of being the savior.

880
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: It wasn't just like your parents broke up, roor you're

881
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: twenty three to get over? It was like, who am

882
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 1: I if my parents break up? Who am I if

883
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 1: I can't save us?

884
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 2: Right?

885
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 1: And then with the hate coming in, I got my

886
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 1: self worth from being approved and liked by everyone, and

887
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: so when I got hate and a lot of it,

888
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,279
Speaker 1: it wasn't just you have haters get over? It was

889
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:49,799
Speaker 1: who am I if people don't like me? So that's

890
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: what threw me for a spin. It was I feel

891
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:52,520
Speaker 1: like a fraud.

892
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:53,839
Speaker 2: That is so deep.

893
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, your identity is based on the roles you played, right,

894
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,719
Speaker 3: and if you can no longer play that, who am I?

895
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 3: And who is?

896
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 2: What is your identity? Right?

897
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 3: And that's where it's hard because that means going back

898
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: to what you said earlier, which was really powerful, is

899
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 3: that your values is the best place to start, because

900
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,719
Speaker 3: your values is something you can control. If you only

901
00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:17,200
Speaker 3: value yourself for a role you play for other people

902
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 3: which you don't control right now, that's not your value,

903
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: right and when they break up, well it goes astray.

904
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: You don't know who you are anymore. That is devastating blow.

905
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, especially when I didn't know why I was

906
00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:34,880
Speaker 1: so upset by it, you know, I was like, this

907
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: shouldn't be effected. I'm twenty four to twenty five, Like

908
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,240
Speaker 1: what's the big deal? But it just didn't go away.

909
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,040
Speaker 1: And then it was funny that, like the hate and

910
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 1: them divorcing came at the same time.

911
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 2: And now when I look back, I'm like, this was.

912
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 1: All like by design, you know, this was all to

913
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: help me grow down. But yeah, it's like, you know,

914
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,239
Speaker 1: when you've gotten your identity from a role that you've

915
00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:00,319
Speaker 1: been playing for so long and that role is taken

916
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: away from you or threatened, it's like, yeah, who are you?

917
00:43:03,680 --> 00:43:08,280
Speaker 2: You said that phrase twice just now, growing down? Growing up? Yeah,

918
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 2: what does that mean? Because I like that.

919
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times in my career I

920
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 1: was just focused on like external growth and like am

921
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:17,279
Speaker 1: I getting more followers? Am I getting more money? Am

922
00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:19,799
Speaker 1: I getting more plaques? And am I growing up?

923
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 2: You know?

924
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: And I wasn't focused on growing down into like the

925
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 1: core of who I am and getting to the root

926
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:31,040
Speaker 1: of it and to the truth of myself. And that's

927
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: what I've been trying to do. That's what this album is,

928
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: is like me growing down, trying to like get deeper

929
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,560
Speaker 1: and deeper into who I actually am, you know, because

930
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to operate from a place of authenticity

931
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 1: and truth. And it's hard to feel authentic and be

932
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:53,759
Speaker 1: authentic when you're operating from a place of shame. Like

933
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:58,479
Speaker 1: I'm ashamed of who I am and I'm insecure about

934
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: who I am, So how can I be authentic? Because

935
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,200
Speaker 1: authentic being authentic with me and being insecure and being

936
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,759
Speaker 1: and it's like I can't be that, especially in rap,

937
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So it's like gotta mask it,

938
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: gotta be omnipotent.

939
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 3: You know what was the darkest and scariest thing you

940
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 3: saw when you started growing down?

941
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:20,919
Speaker 1: I think the biggest thing I the like darkest thing

942
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: and thought I had was like I don't like myself.

943
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,920
Speaker 2: That was like the heaviest and what was it that

944
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:28,560
Speaker 2: you didn't like?

945
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:37,400
Speaker 1: I was ashamed about how I've handled my career. I

946
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: was very mad about at like twenty three year old me.

947
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 1: I would beat him up daily. I was mad about

948
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: you know, me being reactive towards people. I just didn't

949
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 1: like anything about you know, myself. And that was a

950
00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,560
Speaker 1: real low point of like, once again, fraud, if only

951
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,839
Speaker 1: the world knew, you know, and I have self help book, right,

952
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,160
Speaker 1: And I mentioned that on fraud as well.

953
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:11,279
Speaker 2: It's like, who am I like to.

954
00:45:11,719 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 1: Try to give people a book like and for me,

955
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,280
Speaker 1: the book so successful and has helped a lot of people.

956
00:45:17,280 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: But I look back at that book, I'm like, it's

957
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: like vapid to me now, you know. And I'm glad

958
00:45:21,680 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: it's helping people. But and I shouldn't. I shouldn't denounce

959
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: any version of me that's like you're watching it in

960
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: real time what I do. And yeah, that's the heaviest,

961
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: darkest thing that I've come to terms with, not that

962
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: it's a reality of mine that I want to come

963
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:38,799
Speaker 1: to terms with, but getting to a place of like,

964
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: I don't I don't like myself.

965
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: That was the lowest point.

966
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 3: I love what you just said that it's like being

967
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:49,640
Speaker 3: authentic means being able to accept that I feel insecure, right,

968
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,400
Speaker 3: and that that lost version of me just got me

969
00:45:53,440 --> 00:45:55,960
Speaker 3: through that, and that doesn't make it good or bad,

970
00:45:56,120 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 3: but it was a reality. But we think being authentic

971
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:02,160
Speaker 3: means being like smooth and like organized.

972
00:46:02,200 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: What I've learned in therapy is the admission of insecurity

973
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:12,440
Speaker 1: and feeling nervous is step one. Because what happened to me,

974
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: and I think what happens to a lot of people

975
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: is rejecting your insecurities leads to self destruction. So for example,

976
00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: like I used to do interviews super drunk, right Why

977
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: because I was nervous and insecure about just being my

978
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: authentic self. I didn't know how to be that version,

979
00:46:31,160 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: so I would drink to knock the edge off. So like,

980
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:38,800
Speaker 1: the rejecting of my insecurity led to self destructive habits

981
00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 1: and overall a result.

982
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: That I don't like, you know.

983
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think just sitting in your insecurities and

984
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: saying that it's okay to be insecure and feel nervous. Yeah,

985
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,960
Speaker 1: And I think for me it's like nah, like especially

986
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: as men like nah, I'm not allowed to like we got.

987
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: To be the man, you know. Yeah?

988
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: Yeah, I often like even when I if I ever

989
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 3: end up, I don't go to many parties or events

990
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 3: and things like that. But if I ever have to

991
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 3: where I do go for a specific purpose, and it

992
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 3: was someone it was what it was on the Trevor

993
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 3: Noah Interview. When Trevor came on the show, he said

994
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 3: to me, he goes, Jay, you always seem really comfortable

995
00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 3: whenever I see you somewhere, and I was like, that's

996
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 3: because I only really go to places I have a purpose. Like,

997
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:21,919
Speaker 3: I was like, if I don't have a purpose there,

998
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:23,759
Speaker 3: I was like, if you ever see me uncomfortable, it's

999
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 3: because I don't have a purpose, then I don't know

1000
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,920
Speaker 3: what I'm doing there. And I had a couple of

1001
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,319
Speaker 3: those last year, which we talked about.

1002
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 2: Is funny enough.

1003
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,000
Speaker 3: My team was like, Oh, you should definitely go to

1004
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:34,600
Speaker 3: this event. It's really important and stuff, and so I

1005
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,239
Speaker 3: went along and I just felt really like insecure there

1006
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,919
Speaker 3: and useless because I didn't have a role. I didn't

1007
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:42,520
Speaker 3: have a purpose. I wasn't representing what I believe I

1008
00:47:42,560 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 3: go to. Obviously I was representing myself, but I mean

1009
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 3: I wasn't there to represent anything bigger than me showing up.

1010
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,719
Speaker 3: And I found that when I do feel like that,

1011
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 3: I just go up to one other person that I

1012
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:55,319
Speaker 3: feel I could connect with and just be like, hey,

1013
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 3: are you feeling insecure too?

1014
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: Because I am?

1015
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 3: And it's that and it's amazing because everyone's feeling in

1016
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 3: You're like, especially at like these big events that like,

1017
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,200
Speaker 3: no one there's no one, no matter how cool you

1018
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 3: think anyone is, there is no one who's that an

1019
00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 3: award show, an event or a part or anything that

1020
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 3: is feeling anything but insecure. I've not met them at least, right,

1021
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:19,359
Speaker 3: It doesn't that break the wall down? Literally as soon

1022
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:21,879
Speaker 3: as you do that, it's like it goes away. It's

1023
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 3: the resisting the insecurity that has everyone on edge, and

1024
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 3: they're looking at you and you seem to have it

1025
00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 3: all the way to get together. Meanwhile you're panicking inside

1026
00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:32,719
Speaker 3: and now they feel like, well I got to have

1027
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 3: it all the way together and more of tense and

1028
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,560
Speaker 3: just like acting, and if we could just be like, hey.

1029
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 1: Is everyone nervous? Like it's almost like let's all stand

1030
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: here naked. Like that's what that does emotionally, you know

1031
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,359
Speaker 1: what I mean, It's like, all right, cool, now let's

1032
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: like now let's continue.

1033
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1034
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, And that happens in all like you know, it

1035
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 3: happens in family events. It happens at weddings, it happens

1036
00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,920
Speaker 3: at holiday events, like it happens in normal life. You

1037
00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 3: don't this isn't just about the entertainment industry like it

1038
00:48:57,320 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 3: happens everywhere. Yeah, And I fully agree with you that

1039
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 3: it's because we're just resisting in your words, like resisting

1040
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 3: that insecurity. Yeah, what's an insecurity that you were resisting

1041
00:49:08,160 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 3: for the longest time? Like what would you say was

1042
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: an insecurity that you've just been holding onto for not.

1043
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: Feeling like I don't belong. That's probably like one of

1044
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: the biggest ones being a white guy in rap in

1045
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:26,480
Speaker 1: hip hop with no co sign within the culture to

1046
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,200
Speaker 1: sort of make me feel like I do belong. It

1047
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: was a massive insecurity of mine, and I just came

1048
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,359
Speaker 1: in guns blazing, like I don't need any y'all look,

1049
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,440
Speaker 1: and it's like, deep down you wanted everyone though you

1050
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 1: wanted help, deep down, you know, but you masked it

1051
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:44,439
Speaker 1: by well, if I'm not going to get it, I'll

1052
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:47,959
Speaker 1: do it myself. And that became like a really big

1053
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:51,080
Speaker 1: like brand and model for me. And I don't think

1054
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: people understand that my song do It Myself and that

1055
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: energy it was survival. It wasn't like, if you have

1056
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,000
Speaker 1: people willing to help, I hope you should tell them. No,

1057
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: it was I didn't have help. I wish I did,

1058
00:50:05,520 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 1: but I didn't, so I had to do it myself.

1059
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 3: As there anyone who's ever reached out in the industry

1060
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 3: that you feel has not co signed obviously, but like

1061
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: giving you a bit of that kind of nurturing or

1062
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 3: has it still always been kind of like I'm making I.

1063
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: Think I've met a lot of great people in the

1064
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 1: industry who have given me validation and like you're great,

1065
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: You're dope, but like, yeah, I mean I've never been

1066
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,720
Speaker 1: like taken under someone's wing, you know. It was always

1067
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: just kind of like me and my manager are just

1068
00:50:31,080 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 1: like going at this thing, you know, And I'm trying

1069
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: to be more proud of my younger self as much

1070
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 1: as I want to beat him up for how he

1071
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:43,560
Speaker 1: like was omnipotent in a maniac, but it's like for

1072
00:50:43,719 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: what you were going through that you crushed, you know,

1073
00:50:48,440 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: like I don't know how you did all that, And

1074
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: that's what I love you, boy. That song is about,

1075
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:56,239
Speaker 1: especially on that third verse where it's like, you know,

1076
00:50:56,320 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 1: saying you deserve a pat on the back. You know,

1077
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 1: it's just like I've never given myself a pat on

1078
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: the back, and I wanted to take that song to

1079
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: like as an opportunity to give myself the much needed,

1080
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, pat on the back.

1081
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and compassion inspired by that song.

1082
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 3: If you saw, like if you if instead of me,

1083
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: your younger self was sitting in front of this is

1084
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 3: a therapy exercise, right, yeah, instead of me, If your

1085
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 3: youngest self was sitting in front of you right now,

1086
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 3: like sitting in this seat, what does he need to hear?

1087
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:27,319
Speaker 3: No advice, but what does he need to hear?

1088
00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:28,520
Speaker 2: What does he need to hear?

1089
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:34,320
Speaker 1: He needs to hear that you're okay, you're safe, and

1090
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: I got you.

1091
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 2: That's what he needs to hear. And what do you

1092
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:39,799
Speaker 2: think he'd say back? Probably I don't need your help.

1093
00:51:40,719 --> 00:51:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really interesting, how like what I think all

1094
00:51:43,960 --> 00:51:46,120
Speaker 1: of us need from ourselves is just more compassion and

1095
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:46,720
Speaker 1: more grace.

1096
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:48,560
Speaker 2: And the younger version of me.

1097
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,279
Speaker 1: Needs that so bad, needed that so bad, and I

1098
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 1: didn't get it, and he didn't know how to receive

1099
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:00,520
Speaker 1: that help and receive that compassion. And I don't know,

1100
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: if you know, if I was talking to him and

1101
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:04,239
Speaker 1: he rejected the help and compassion, I would just keep

1102
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: trying because.

1103
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:06,680
Speaker 2: I know that's what he really needs.

1104
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: He just wants to feel safe, like he belongs, like

1105
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:12,920
Speaker 1: it's going to be okay, like he's allowed to make mistakes.

1106
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,399
Speaker 2: You know. That's the other thing, once again, being a perfectionist.

1107
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:21,040
Speaker 1: It's like it really is like hindering when it comes

1108
00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,880
Speaker 1: to everything, like accepting help, because once again, help is

1109
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: coded as criticism as a perfectionist, feeling good about anything

1110
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:33,319
Speaker 1: you've done because you could have always done better, so

1111
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 1: you didn't quite nail your standard of perfection. And I

1112
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: just think, like that's what I'm trying to get to now,

1113
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 1: is like giving myself more grace. And I talk about

1114
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,440
Speaker 1: it on Tunnel Vision, where I say, I want to

1115
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 1: stop thinking that I got to go through hell to

1116
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,440
Speaker 1: get the credit I desperately need to give to myself.

1117
00:52:51,640 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 2: You know, you can just do this an easier way.

1118
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 3: It's a most so hard being a high performa who

1119
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 3: gives grace to themselves, Yeah, because that's the hard part, right.

1120
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 3: It's like I want to perform at the best, but

1121
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:07,919
Speaker 3: I know I need to be nice to myself. But

1122
00:53:08,160 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 3: I can't be too nice because if I'm too nice

1123
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:11,879
Speaker 3: to myself, then I can't perform the best, and it's

1124
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:14,800
Speaker 3: like this fight inside of you. Yeah, I think it

1125
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 3: comes down to kind of what you were saying earlier,

1126
00:53:17,000 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: where it's like if your tool kit is only shame

1127
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 3: and like dark motivation, then you're just gonna use that

1128
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 3: and it's not sustainable. I think for me, the light

1129
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:29,480
Speaker 3: motivation is like, you know, I love what I'm doing,

1130
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 3: you know, when I'm on stage, I love the fans,

1131
00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:35,400
Speaker 3: I love performing, and as long as I did my best,

1132
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 3: I have to be okay with that.

1133
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 2: You know.

1134
00:53:38,400 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: I can say, okay, you know, I know I can

1135
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: do better than that, but tonight I did my best

1136
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: and it's easier said than done. Like I'm working on that.

1137
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,720
Speaker 1: But I think that's the place to start, is just knowing,

1138
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 1: like did you do your best with the resources that

1139
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,160
Speaker 1: you had? And to think that you were supposed to

1140
00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:59,480
Speaker 1: just be this all knowing entity, it's like that's arrogance,

1141
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: you know. But that's why I would beat myself up

1142
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 1: a lot. It's like, how did you not know?

1143
00:54:03,840 --> 00:54:06,200
Speaker 2: You know? But it's like you're allowed to not know everything.

1144
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 3: That's powerful. Yeah, that's powerful. Actually to look back and

1145
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 3: think I wouldn't have done anything better. I'm glad that. Yeah,

1146
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 3: I had to just go through that, and that's why

1147
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:15,520
Speaker 3: I was back Then's what I was.

1148
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: Those were like I based my decisions in the past

1149
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,720
Speaker 1: off of what I knew back then and what felt

1150
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: true to me back then, what felt authentic, and with

1151
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,720
Speaker 1: the reservoir of knowledge I had back then, that's.

1152
00:54:28,560 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 2: What I based my decisions off of.

1153
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 1: Obviously, now seven years later, ten years whatever it is,

1154
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:38,200
Speaker 1: I would make different decisions. But it's like, I can't

1155
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: be mad at twenty three year old me that he

1156
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: didn't know what thirty year old me.

1157
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:42,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1158
00:54:42,600 --> 00:54:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard for me to not want to

1159
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:46,319
Speaker 1: beat him up, Like you're such an idiot. All you

1160
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: had to do was like read this one book and

1161
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 1: you would have even been better off. You know, sometimes

1162
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:52,400
Speaker 1: it feels like the answer was right.

1163
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 3: There, But that's what it is, right Like, we have

1164
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,839
Speaker 3: this tabit as humans where we judge ourselves off of

1165
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:05,600
Speaker 3: one conversation and one event, one performance, one song, one meeting.

1166
00:55:06,239 --> 00:55:08,719
Speaker 3: And what's really interesting thing is about that is that

1167
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:11,720
Speaker 3: we then project that onto other people, where we judge

1168
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 3: them on one song, one moment, one interaction rather than

1169
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 3: looking at someone as this story of a human And

1170
00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 3: it's fascinating to me that you would never ever pick

1171
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,680
Speaker 3: up a book and read one page and judge the

1172
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:32,759
Speaker 3: whole book. No one really does that. You would read

1173
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:34,920
Speaker 3: some of the book at least. But it's like with

1174
00:55:35,000 --> 00:55:37,520
Speaker 3: ourselves and with others, we don't see them as a story.

1175
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:38,239
Speaker 3: We see them as a.

1176
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,280
Speaker 1: Page and right, it's so brutal.

1177
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:43,640
Speaker 2: Though it's so brutal.

1178
00:55:43,719 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 1: It's so brutal, I do it to myself, and I

1179
00:55:46,120 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 1: think I think in the world of social media too.

1180
00:55:49,360 --> 00:55:50,920
Speaker 2: You're not allowed to make mistakes.

1181
00:55:51,080 --> 00:55:54,200
Speaker 1: Your one mistake is the book that just tells me

1182
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:55,759
Speaker 1: everything I need to know about you and how you

1183
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: treat yourself. Because I know like I tend to be

1184
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:02,880
Speaker 1: and this is not a great thing, a very judgmental person.

1185
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: And I justify it by saying, relax, I judge myself too.

1186
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 1: It's like, that's not good though, you know, and it's

1187
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:12,680
Speaker 1: but I do what you said. I'd look at one

1188
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:15,319
Speaker 1: event and be like, you don't deserve anything because of

1189
00:56:15,360 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: that one convo or that one tweet or that one.

1190
00:56:18,800 --> 00:56:21,160
Speaker 3: Not realizing that at that point that was where that

1191
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 3: person was right. And actually we open people up to change,

1192
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:30,000
Speaker 3: including ourselves, when we recognize that our capacity for change

1193
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:32,799
Speaker 3: can increase if you look back at an event like

1194
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,319
Speaker 3: you're saying, and you're like, I actually appreciate That's what

1195
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 3: I knew then. I didn't do something I was proud of,

1196
00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 3: but that's what I knew then. Now that I think,

1197
00:56:40,600 --> 00:56:42,799
Speaker 3: there's a famous Maya Angelou quote where she says that

1198
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:46,360
Speaker 3: now that I know better, I do better. And the

1199
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:52,440
Speaker 3: idea of if you don't accept that that's possible for

1200
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:55,440
Speaker 3: you and others, that's what actually keeps you in prison

1201
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:58,719
Speaker 3: because you keep saying no, no, no, that's who you are.

1202
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:02,359
Speaker 3: That event ten years ago is who you are, and

1203
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:03,319
Speaker 3: that's who you'll ever be.

1204
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 2: So tough, that's so true.

1205
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,880
Speaker 1: It's tough, but I mean in social media, you're not

1206
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:10,840
Speaker 1: allowed to change your mind. That also keeps people, especially

1207
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: celebrities and people in the public eye, like into this

1208
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,480
Speaker 1: prison where it's like no, no, no.

1209
00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,280
Speaker 2: No, what you said.

1210
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: You believed what you said ten days ago, ten years ago,

1211
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: you better still believe that or you're fake, like and

1212
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: it's crazy because you're allowed to change your mind. And

1213
00:57:28,240 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: not only are you allowed to change your mind, you're

1214
00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,600
Speaker 1: supposed to change your mind. You're supposed to now have

1215
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: a new belief system. It's not like Rick Rubin talked

1216
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 1: about it with you, and I thought it was so

1217
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:41,120
Speaker 1: spot on. It's like if you still have the same

1218
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: beliefs you did twenty years ago upon learning new things,

1219
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,080
Speaker 1: and you're not growing like you know, but I think

1220
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: that's why you got to like remove yourself from social

1221
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:52,680
Speaker 1: media and what the world in the mob of the

1222
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: internet and stop trying to reconcile with them, reconcile with yourself,

1223
00:57:56,280 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 1: and give yourself the permission to change your mind.

1224
00:57:58,400 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1225
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:01,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've what something when you think that you have

1226
00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:07,040
Speaker 3: changed your mind on from let's say like maybe ten

1227
00:58:07,120 --> 00:58:09,280
Speaker 3: years ago, or maybe if you need to go back longer,

1228
00:58:09,320 --> 00:58:11,400
Speaker 3: twenty years ago. Like I'll share one of mine. Mine

1229
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 3: was when I was young, I didn't because I grew

1230
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 3: up in this mindset. I believed that people who had

1231
00:58:17,320 --> 00:58:19,840
Speaker 3: money had to do something dodgy to get money. Yes,

1232
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,160
Speaker 3: because that's the language that I was raised in. Like

1233
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 3: we always heard that, like, oh yeah, but he doesn't

1234
00:58:24,320 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 3: pay his taxes.

1235
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 2: Right.

1236
00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:27,120
Speaker 3: If I saw a nice car and I've been like

1237
00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 3: my family would be like oh yeah, yeah, but they

1238
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,040
Speaker 3: always do that dodgy business on the side, and so

1239
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:33,600
Speaker 3: in my head, anyone who had money must be doing

1240
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:39,120
Speaker 3: something wrong to have money, and that not only did

1241
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 3: that limit me from appreciating others or admiring or learning

1242
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 3: from those people, it blocked me from thinking that was

1243
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 3: good for me and possible for me.

1244
00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: Right, because you would have had to do because I

1245
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:53,040
Speaker 1: would have had to do dogy stuff.

1246
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: And I thought I was a good person, so I

1247
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:55,760
Speaker 3: don't I'm not going to do anything. I would never

1248
00:58:55,840 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 3: do anything bad. So so you'll never get money, yeah,

1249
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: exactly right, And then all of a sudden start realizing

1250
00:59:01,680 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 3: where like you need to meet And this is why

1251
00:59:03,680 --> 00:59:05,960
Speaker 3: I think, that's why I love the podcast, because I

1252
00:59:06,040 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 3: want to show people or show sides of people, or

1253
00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:12,760
Speaker 3: let people show sides of themselves where people can go, oh,

1254
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 3: that is possible. I can be a rapper, yeah, and

1255
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 3: go to therapy like I can be, you know, I

1256
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 3: can be someone who makes songs about this, this, this,

1257
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:25,439
Speaker 3: and work on myself like that. There is an and

1258
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:29,280
Speaker 3: as opposed to like this, you know finite yeah exactly.

1259
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:31,080
Speaker 3: So for me, that was a big one for me

1260
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:34,000
Speaker 3: of recognizing that you can make money with integrity. You

1261
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 3: could use it in service, you could it could be

1262
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 3: used proactively for purpose, And that was a massive limiting

1263
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:44,240
Speaker 3: belief and negative belief I had. What was something for

1264
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,080
Speaker 3: you that you that you changed your mind on.

1265
00:59:46,200 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 2: I think the big thing for me was thinking that

1266
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,439
Speaker 2: I was always right. Ooh, that's good.

1267
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:56,240
Speaker 1: That's the biggest one for me because I was operating

1268
00:59:56,280 --> 01:00:00,360
Speaker 1: in this place once again of omnipotence, just that I

1269
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,520
Speaker 1: knew everything, everything I did was right, every decision I've

1270
01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:08,320
Speaker 1: ever made was right because look in my life, clearly,

1271
01:00:08,560 --> 01:00:11,000
Speaker 1: everything I've ever done was right, and everything I say

1272
01:00:11,040 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: is right everything I know. So I got to a

1273
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: place now where I'm so much more curious and I'm

1274
01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:20,439
Speaker 1: so much more humble in the sense of like, I'm

1275
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:24,040
Speaker 1: open to being wrong, because it's like, I believe what

1276
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:26,400
Speaker 1: I believe, but I'm open to changing my mind. I'm

1277
01:00:26,440 --> 01:00:28,680
Speaker 1: open to someone else telling me their beliefs and me

1278
01:00:29,160 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: being open minded and curious about it. I'm open to

1279
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: not always being right. And I think that is a

1280
01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:35,960
Speaker 1: much better like starting place.

1281
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,640
Speaker 3: And that's It's really interesting because everything we're saying is

1282
01:00:38,680 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 3: basically that paradox, Like we were saying, you want to

1283
01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 3: be ambitious, but you gotta have grace for yourself. You

1284
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:48,920
Speaker 3: want to be you want to know your values, but

1285
01:00:49,000 --> 01:00:51,880
Speaker 3: you want to be open to learning more and changing them.

1286
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 3: And it's almost like everything is this And I think

1287
01:00:54,880 --> 01:00:58,520
Speaker 3: that's where we struggled the most, because whether it was parenting,

1288
01:00:58,520 --> 01:01:01,960
Speaker 3: whether it was school, whether it was is our background,

1289
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,000
Speaker 3: we were always told that there was one right answer, right, right,

1290
01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 3: like you have to get us in the back of

1291
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 3: the book exactly, yeah, yeah, And it's like there's one

1292
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:13,680
Speaker 3: right answer that everyone has to get to and if

1293
01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 3: your one mark off the answer, then it's the wrong answer.

1294
01:01:16,040 --> 01:01:18,760
Speaker 3: And the truth is that life is so variegated, it

1295
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 3: is so gray. It is as you just said, even

1296
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 3: when you were talking earlier, you were like, there's so

1297
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:23,800
Speaker 3: many layers to this.

1298
01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:24,400
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1299
01:01:24,440 --> 01:01:27,360
Speaker 3: So it's like one answer is material stuff doesn't make

1300
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,240
Speaker 3: you happy, right, But it's like when you broke down

1301
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 3: the layers of like, actually, why did my parents divorce

1302
01:01:32,280 --> 01:01:34,520
Speaker 3: make me unhappy? It's because this is and so like

1303
01:01:34,600 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 3: everything is so layered, but I feel like we haven't.

1304
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,160
Speaker 3: I don't know if our brain our brain almost needs

1305
01:01:40,320 --> 01:01:43,760
Speaker 3: not an app but our brain needs the ability to

1306
01:01:44,320 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 3: be able to understand how everything is so multi layered. Yeah,

1307
01:01:48,680 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 3: but it's so much easier to just put someone in

1308
01:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,200
Speaker 3: a box and go that's what I'm judging.

1309
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 2: And just be more flexible. Yeah.

1310
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,640
Speaker 1: And I think Atomic Habits talks about like keeping your

1311
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:01,800
Speaker 1: identity small, and I thought it was so genius. Talks about,

1312
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: you know, there's athletes who their identity is, I'm an athlete,

1313
01:02:06,160 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: I'm a point guard. And what happens when you're not

1314
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:12,920
Speaker 1: playing basketball anymore? Though, and they have this identity crisis

1315
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:16,240
Speaker 1: and sometimes it gets really you know, severe, and he

1316
01:02:16,320 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: talks about how like instead of saying I'm an athlete,

1317
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:22,640
Speaker 1: how about saying I'm a hard worker who you know

1318
01:02:22,800 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: works well with teams and did it and so that

1319
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,720
Speaker 1: you can still get you can still apply what your

1320
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: strengths are from being an athlete into other aspects of

1321
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: your life after being an athlete is done. And I

1322
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 1: thought that was so powerful because it's so easy to

1323
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: get tied up into.

1324
01:02:39,640 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 2: I'm a rapper or I'm at this or I'm at that.

1325
01:02:42,600 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: And you start trying to like do things based off

1326
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:48,320
Speaker 1: of the perception of yourself. And I just think being

1327
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,080
Speaker 1: more flexible, you know, and not being so rigid on

1328
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:53,600
Speaker 1: who you are and just you know, be open.

1329
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 3: What's something that you were very I guess inflexible about,

1330
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,400
Speaker 3: inflexible about, and now that you've become more flexible about

1331
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 3: in your identity.

1332
01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:06,600
Speaker 1: I think being a man and being what I thought

1333
01:03:07,960 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: that means, like being not showing any emotion, not showing

1334
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:18,960
Speaker 1: like anything is affecting me, not receiving help, doing it myself,

1335
01:03:19,000 --> 01:03:21,360
Speaker 1: all these things like that, to me is the most

1336
01:03:21,400 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: valuable thing that I'm now flexible on is because I've

1337
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:28,600
Speaker 1: learned that their strength and vulnerability and their strength in

1338
01:03:28,680 --> 01:03:33,240
Speaker 1: being honest, and their strength in collaboration, you know, learning

1339
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:37,480
Speaker 1: from a positive male role model who's older than you

1340
01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:41,720
Speaker 1: and just can give you, you know, new wisdom, new knowledge.

1341
01:03:41,760 --> 01:03:44,600
Speaker 1: It's like their strength in collaboration. I think we've talked

1342
01:03:44,640 --> 01:03:46,320
Speaker 1: about it in therapy. It was this documentary that my

1343
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,000
Speaker 1: therapist was talking about like and he was talking about

1344
01:03:49,000 --> 01:03:53,000
Speaker 1: how like alpha males who lead by dominance via like

1345
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:58,520
Speaker 1: fear are often like exiled or killed, and the ones

1346
01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:04,360
Speaker 1: who lead through collaborate and cohesion like like exhibit peace

1347
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:07,200
Speaker 1: and like people love them. And it's so funny because

1348
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: I think growing up like we would idolize those male

1349
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: figures who were the like just dominant, you know, and

1350
01:04:14,000 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 1: just invoke fear and all these things. And I'm just

1351
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:21,760
Speaker 1: trying to help myself, and I'm also trying to help

1352
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:24,720
Speaker 1: my fans. And then on a real, real specific level,

1353
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 1: I'm trying to be a lighthouse for young men that

1354
01:04:30,280 --> 01:04:32,120
Speaker 1: can look at me and say, you know what, I

1355
01:04:32,160 --> 01:04:35,680
Speaker 1: don't have to have it all figured out because he doesn't.

1356
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:38,000
Speaker 1: And if he's allowed to make mistakes, I'm allowed to

1357
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: make mistakes. I'm trying to get men and people to

1358
01:04:41,520 --> 01:04:45,400
Speaker 1: just be nicer to themselves, have more compassion, have more grace.

1359
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 3: I love what you were saying about leader is because

1360
01:04:48,640 --> 01:04:51,320
Speaker 3: I feel like there is that perception that leaders have

1361
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:54,440
Speaker 3: to be stoic and strong and cold.

1362
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1363
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,480
Speaker 3: And it was really interesting to me because I'm still

1364
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,640
Speaker 3: close with my monk teachers, and like they're the kind

1365
01:04:59,680 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 3: of people that would come and sit in the back

1366
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 3: on the floor of a class and listen to a

1367
01:05:05,080 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 3: young monk give a talk, and that was considered humility,

1368
01:05:08,920 --> 01:05:11,600
Speaker 3: and the strength of a leader was like they weren't

1369
01:05:11,800 --> 01:05:15,640
Speaker 3: enforcing their authority, like they would always say, like a

1370
01:05:15,680 --> 01:05:18,400
Speaker 3: real leader doesn't. I would always hear them say this,

1371
01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:22,280
Speaker 3: like a real leader doesn't demand respect, they command it, right,

1372
01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 3: It's just it's natural for them. They don't have to

1373
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,760
Speaker 3: walk into the room and all eyes on me, They

1374
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:29,400
Speaker 3: don't have to do something big to gain attention. They

1375
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 3: actually would come on and put the spotlight on you.

1376
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:37,480
Speaker 3: But it's interesting because that isn't our general belief around leaders.

1377
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 3: We almost want to be pushed around and moved around

1378
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:45,200
Speaker 3: to think someone's powerful. It's almost like if someone's kind

1379
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 3: and gracious, you kind of think of them as.

1380
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 2: Like a soft and a pushover. Yeah.

1381
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,920
Speaker 3: Whereas and so I think there's so much rewiring that

1382
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 3: almost needs to go on into what is healthy leadership.

1383
01:05:55,240 --> 01:05:57,920
Speaker 1: Or I know, and I'm not like the epitome of

1384
01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:00,880
Speaker 1: no no, no where neither should be. But it's like,

1385
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:03,800
Speaker 1: I agree, I think there's a rewiring that has to

1386
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: happen on what it means to be a man. And

1387
01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: I think men need to also stop looking for what

1388
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,560
Speaker 1: it means to be a man from women, and women

1389
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 1: need to stop even caring what men say when it

1390
01:06:16,120 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 1: comes to what does it mean to be a woman's

1391
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:23,080
Speaker 1: We don't know each other's experiences, you know. Men need

1392
01:06:23,160 --> 01:06:27,160
Speaker 1: more male collaboration, positive male collaboration positive role models.

1393
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:28,919
Speaker 3: And I think it's what you said earlier, like knowing

1394
01:06:28,920 --> 01:06:31,720
Speaker 3: that we're wrong if we are sitting with someone to

1395
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,120
Speaker 3: learn about them, go into it going I probably don't

1396
01:06:35,160 --> 01:06:38,000
Speaker 3: know what you're going through right now, right and I'm

1397
01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 3: probably wrong as opposed to like, yeah, I already know,

1398
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:43,280
Speaker 3: I've got you figured out, Like all men are like this,

1399
01:06:43,360 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 3: well women are like this or or whatever it may be,

1400
01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:47,440
Speaker 3: which which is kind of how we live in the world.

1401
01:06:47,760 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 2: What does anything do you sleep?

1402
01:06:50,440 --> 01:06:50,600
Speaker 1: Well?

1403
01:06:50,640 --> 01:06:52,560
Speaker 2: What keeps you up at night? I sleep on now?

1404
01:06:52,600 --> 01:06:53,440
Speaker 2: I got an or a ring?

1405
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,960
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I like the Yeah, I'm I don't know,

1406
01:06:56,960 --> 01:06:57,480
Speaker 1: I'm thirty now.

1407
01:06:57,520 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 2: I'm trying to like be in bed by you know midnight.

1408
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,240
Speaker 3: Dude, you're getting I'm I'm faty sixty yere and I've

1409
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,280
Speaker 3: been I sleep at like ninety that's beautiful.

1410
01:07:06,320 --> 01:07:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so good.

1411
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 1: I've been going to sleep at like nine p fifty,

1412
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,479
Speaker 1: getting like eight hours of sleep. I feel like waking

1413
01:07:11,560 --> 01:07:15,480
Speaker 1: up going on walks. Am I this is crazy?

1414
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 2: How does it feel to have hit that in that

1415
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:18,480
Speaker 2: you once sid.

1416
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,280
Speaker 1: If like even Santiago, This feels like my debut album

1417
01:07:21,320 --> 01:07:24,200
Speaker 1: because it just feels like this is a version of

1418
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 1: myself that has not been shown to the world. And

1419
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: I still feel as young as I ever felt. But

1420
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:34,520
Speaker 1: I just feel like I know myself more. I'm more

1421
01:07:34,560 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 1: comfortable with myself. I'm living in more of my truth

1422
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:43,720
Speaker 1: and authenticity, and I'm excited. Like I just feel I

1423
01:07:43,720 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 1: feel blessed to make it out of my twenties alive,

1424
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 1: you know, without any like drug problems or anything. Because

1425
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: looking back, I'm like I can see, you know, reasons

1426
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:56,360
Speaker 1: for numbing the pain, you know.

1427
01:07:56,760 --> 01:07:59,520
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm excited.

1428
01:07:59,680 --> 01:08:02,440
Speaker 3: I love the uh you know, I was watching you.

1429
01:08:02,680 --> 01:08:05,240
Speaker 3: I'm always following everything you're up to, and I love

1430
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:06,760
Speaker 3: the way you talk to the fans when you're on

1431
01:08:06,840 --> 01:08:09,480
Speaker 3: stage and when you post from it. But also how

1432
01:08:09,520 --> 01:08:11,919
Speaker 3: you've been encouraging so many young artists to like jump

1433
01:08:11,960 --> 01:08:14,240
Speaker 3: on tracks and like be a part of the music, yeah,

1434
01:08:14,240 --> 01:08:17,160
Speaker 3: through TikTok and everything else, And like, I think that's

1435
01:08:17,160 --> 01:08:20,000
Speaker 3: so dope, man, because I it just I think there

1436
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:21,320
Speaker 3: was I think there was one when you do with

1437
01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 3: Caitlyn right, yeah, and it was just like I just

1438
01:08:24,560 --> 01:08:27,400
Speaker 3: found that whole approach to be so true to how

1439
01:08:27,479 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 3: you came up, yeah, and what you do and like

1440
01:08:30,280 --> 01:08:32,000
Speaker 3: being able to past on. How does that feel to

1441
01:08:32,040 --> 01:08:34,600
Speaker 3: be able to now like it's it's it's incredible.

1442
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:36,519
Speaker 1: I feel like I've said it before to like my

1443
01:08:36,600 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: friends and people like you don't really feel the power

1444
01:08:40,520 --> 01:08:42,800
Speaker 1: of your platform or the power of your money until

1445
01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,360
Speaker 1: you give it away and see how it affects someone

1446
01:08:45,360 --> 01:08:47,759
Speaker 1: who maybe doesn't have that. It sort of like snaps

1447
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 1: you out of it for a second. It snaps you

1448
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:50,200
Speaker 1: into really.

1449
01:08:50,400 --> 01:08:51,160
Speaker 2: What you've built.

1450
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean for me, like the you know,

1451
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,200
Speaker 1: the approach on TikTok and putting Caitlin on the song,

1452
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:59,479
Speaker 1: it's like it's a no brainer. Like and that's where

1453
01:08:59,520 --> 01:09:01,600
Speaker 1: like I'm glad I don't have an ego in that

1454
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:03,720
Speaker 1: sense in that field. It's like, if I'm putting up

1455
01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: a song and someone is affected by it enough to

1456
01:09:07,320 --> 01:09:10,000
Speaker 1: want to do their own version, and people love it,

1457
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:11,639
Speaker 1: and I think it sounds good.

1458
01:09:11,479 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: Why would I not just like make that a thing?

1459
01:09:15,040 --> 01:09:18,639
Speaker 1: Just like this is the entertainment business, and it's like, meaning,

1460
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,759
Speaker 1: we're in the business of people enjoying what you're doing.

1461
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 1: This is a cheek coode. They've already said that they

1462
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,839
Speaker 1: enjoy it. Just give it to them. It's like, yeah,

1463
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:29,599
Speaker 1: I thought it was dope. I love that answer. Yeah,

1464
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:33,800
Speaker 1: she's great, very very talented. Where you just mentioned the ego,

1465
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:36,439
Speaker 1: then where does the ego still blucky? Sometimes you're like,

1466
01:09:36,880 --> 01:09:38,800
Speaker 1: that's somewhere where I don't have an ego, whereas I.

1467
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,360
Speaker 2: Don't have a How would you describe the ego? It's

1468
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:43,840
Speaker 2: a great question because then I could answer, yeah, yeah,

1469
01:09:43,840 --> 01:09:44,160
Speaker 2: it's great.

1470
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:45,560
Speaker 3: It's a great question. And that's what I want to

1471
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 3: give you a very thoughtful and so I would say

1472
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:53,400
Speaker 3: that the ego is any moment in which you create

1473
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 3: a false sense of security. So you're creating a false

1474
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 3: sense of being safe as opposed to be an arrogant

1475
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:03,720
Speaker 3: blah blah blah. That's it, because those are all Ultimately

1476
01:10:04,080 --> 01:10:08,400
Speaker 3: it's a false self defense mechanism. Yeah, So like for example,

1477
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:10,040
Speaker 3: with my wife, it's like, if my wife tells me

1478
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:13,800
Speaker 3: something that I know is blatantly true, my ego will

1479
01:10:13,840 --> 01:10:16,320
Speaker 3: even construct something where I'm like, oh, yeah, but this

1480
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 3: happened before and this thing, and it's like I'm constructing

1481
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 3: a true What I'm saying is true, it's factual, but

1482
01:10:21,760 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 3: I'm still using it just to defend my ego because

1483
01:10:24,520 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 3: I'm scared of just saying like, you know.

1484
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 2: That you're wrong. Yeah, oh I do that all the time. Yeah,

1485
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 2: so the wrong parts through.

1486
01:10:29,680 --> 01:10:32,599
Speaker 3: But like, yeah, where where do you create a false

1487
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,200
Speaker 3: sense of safety in your life or a false sense

1488
01:10:35,200 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 3: of security?

1489
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:39,400
Speaker 2: I think trying to constantly.

1490
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: Save my mom emotionally and take on my family's emotions

1491
01:10:47,040 --> 01:10:51,040
Speaker 1: as my responsibility because without me doing that, they're not

1492
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:59,000
Speaker 1: safe is like a really big crux of like my stress,

1493
01:10:59,560 --> 01:11:03,400
Speaker 1: you know, and it's not on them, it's on me,

1494
01:11:04,320 --> 01:11:09,880
Speaker 1: And it's really me, not like I'm not allowing my

1495
01:11:10,040 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 1: mom to pull herself out of the hole unless I

1496
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:19,759
Speaker 1: go down there with her. But that's really the opposite

1497
01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,760
Speaker 1: of empowering. It's like I need to let go. But

1498
01:11:22,960 --> 01:11:26,919
Speaker 1: letting go so scary because if I feel like she's drowning,

1499
01:11:27,520 --> 01:11:30,280
Speaker 1: or if I feel like my brother's drowning, or my

1500
01:11:30,360 --> 01:11:33,639
Speaker 1: sister or whoever I love is drowning and I'm watching

1501
01:11:33,680 --> 01:11:36,760
Speaker 1: them drown, how am I supposed to not go in

1502
01:11:36,840 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 1: and save them? But the reality is sometimes they're just

1503
01:11:39,640 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 1: flapping their arms and their feet are on the ground,

1504
01:11:42,200 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: and it just looked like they were drowning, you know.

1505
01:11:45,479 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 2: But dude, that is a great answer was.

1506
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,920
Speaker 3: No, because you just there was another definition as when

1507
01:11:54,000 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 3: you ask me that question, that game. To my mind,

1508
01:11:55,800 --> 01:11:59,320
Speaker 3: it's and whatever anyone's believing God is when I say

1509
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 3: the word God is God, universe.

1510
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:02,200
Speaker 2: Whatever you personally choose.

1511
01:12:02,240 --> 01:12:05,400
Speaker 3: But like the ego is when you choose to play

1512
01:12:05,439 --> 01:12:09,080
Speaker 3: God instead of play your part for God.

1513
01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:09,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

1514
01:12:10,080 --> 01:12:14,040
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, And that's why it's a great answer because

1515
01:12:14,080 --> 01:12:16,920
Speaker 3: that is exactly what's happening. It's like you're you're saying

1516
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:19,599
Speaker 3: it's all on me, right, and you're trying to.

1517
01:12:19,520 --> 01:12:21,120
Speaker 2: Be the me the almighty.

1518
01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:23,560
Speaker 3: You use the word at the beginning like that's a

1519
01:12:23,720 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 3: god like word, right, like where you're like everything rests

1520
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,400
Speaker 3: and depends on me, which means if I do it,

1521
01:12:30,479 --> 01:12:32,559
Speaker 3: I'm going to save it and if I'm not there, it's.

1522
01:12:32,400 --> 01:12:33,240
Speaker 2: Going to fall apart.

1523
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,280
Speaker 3: Right, And that's ego because like you just rightly said,

1524
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,160
Speaker 3: like not only you can love someone and let them

1525
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,720
Speaker 3: still grow by themselves and still be there for them,

1526
01:12:42,920 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 3: but you can't grow for them, right, But when you

1527
01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,320
Speaker 3: want to grow for someone instead of grow with them

1528
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 3: or help them grow.

1529
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:53,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that that level of like omnipotence

1530
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:58,400
Speaker 1: and that level of control also influences like lack of

1531
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:03,600
Speaker 1: confidence because by me being like, let me handle it,

1532
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:06,439
Speaker 1: really says, oh, so you think that if I handle it,

1533
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:09,599
Speaker 1: you know, me being my mind like, oh you think

1534
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: if I handle it, don't let you help me? Russ

1535
01:13:11,400 --> 01:13:15,080
Speaker 1: that like I can't do it, you know, And I'm.

1536
01:13:14,920 --> 01:13:18,680
Speaker 2: Just like, yeah, kind of, you know, but I need to.

1537
01:13:19,080 --> 01:13:22,120
Speaker 1: It's just really it's coming back to that place of

1538
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 1: my role in my identity. I always played the role

1539
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 1: of helping and being responsible emotionally for people and saving

1540
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:34,080
Speaker 1: them and fixing things, and so it's just second nature.

1541
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,000
Speaker 1: I get very hyper vigilant when someone around me is upset,

1542
01:13:37,560 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: because if you're upset, it's my fault, is what it

1543
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:46,280
Speaker 1: gets like coded as and I'm trying to unlearn that.

1544
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:50,559
Speaker 1: But that's tough because, like I said, I feel or

1545
01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:52,280
Speaker 1: when I was a kid, the stake seems so high.

1546
01:13:52,320 --> 01:13:53,560
Speaker 1: It felt like it was life or death if I

1547
01:13:53,600 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 1: don't help, what if someone's self harms, et cetera. But

1548
01:13:56,560 --> 01:14:01,840
Speaker 1: now when someone's upset, I still can't let go and

1549
01:14:02,360 --> 01:14:03,920
Speaker 1: still be there for them but not feel like I

1550
01:14:03,920 --> 01:14:06,759
Speaker 1: have to go down into the hole with them because

1551
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm still operating from that childlike role, you know, and

1552
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: I'm just working on understanding that, like they're okay, They're

1553
01:14:14,400 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: going to be okay, Like you know, no one's saying

1554
01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: like cut them off and don't talk to you. But

1555
01:14:18,880 --> 01:14:21,040
Speaker 1: it's like you don't need to go down into the

1556
01:14:21,080 --> 01:14:21,880
Speaker 1: hole with them.

1557
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:22,839
Speaker 2: That's beautiful.

1558
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:26,439
Speaker 3: And then the album Santiago is inspired by Polo Quella's

1559
01:14:26,479 --> 01:14:29,160
Speaker 3: Alchemist Yes, which is a legendary If you haven't heard,

1560
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 3: I mean, you have to have heard of this book.

1561
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:32,960
Speaker 3: Everyone's listening if you haven't. It's a legendary book by

1562
01:14:32,960 --> 01:14:36,040
Speaker 3: a legendary author. When did you first come across the book?

1563
01:14:36,080 --> 01:14:38,840
Speaker 3: And why did you feel like you wanted to bring

1564
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 3: music into the book?

1565
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:43,400
Speaker 1: So Boogie is my best friend put that book in

1566
01:14:43,439 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 1: my hand when I was probably seventeen eighteen, I.

1567
01:14:46,520 --> 01:14:49,599
Speaker 2: Met and lost time. Did you go with you? Yeah,

1568
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:51,520
Speaker 2: that's a great deal. It is incredible.

1569
01:14:51,560 --> 01:14:53,640
Speaker 1: So he put like that book in my hand and

1570
01:14:54,400 --> 01:14:57,320
Speaker 1: Napoleon Hill in my hand, you know, and crazy books

1571
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:00,200
Speaker 1: to read at that age, and I would It was

1572
01:15:00,200 --> 01:15:03,479
Speaker 1: instantly like it became like a bible for me, you know,

1573
01:15:04,280 --> 01:15:07,040
Speaker 1: and there was just so many parallels that I found

1574
01:15:07,080 --> 01:15:09,439
Speaker 1: and I just I've like opened it back up or

1575
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:11,600
Speaker 1: you know, a few times over the years, but for

1576
01:15:11,640 --> 01:15:14,920
Speaker 1: whatever reason, two years ago, summer of twenty twenty one,

1577
01:15:15,160 --> 01:15:16,000
Speaker 1: I decided.

1578
01:15:15,680 --> 01:15:18,679
Speaker 2: To reread it. And you know how you can like.

1579
01:15:18,880 --> 01:15:20,400
Speaker 1: Read a book that you've already read, but you read

1580
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:21,720
Speaker 1: it at a different time in your life, and all

1581
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,000
Speaker 1: of a sudden, different things stick out and it resonates deeper.

1582
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:27,559
Speaker 1: And so it just felt it just spoke to me

1583
01:15:27,680 --> 01:15:32,439
Speaker 1: so deeply than even before it, and I was like, man,

1584
01:15:32,479 --> 01:15:35,439
Speaker 1: I want to make a whole album that gives like

1585
01:15:36,479 --> 01:15:39,639
Speaker 1: that parallels the book with my story. But what ended

1586
01:15:39,720 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: up happening was it was hard for me to just

1587
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:48,040
Speaker 1: tell my story and not make an album about the Alchemist.

1588
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:49,840
Speaker 1: And so that's why I ended up saying it was

1589
01:15:49,880 --> 01:15:52,640
Speaker 1: loosely inspired by the Alchemists, because at the inception, it

1590
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 1: was truly like it felt like I couldn't write about

1591
01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,120
Speaker 1: my life, I had to write about Santiago's. But then

1592
01:15:59,120 --> 01:16:02,639
Speaker 1: Powacuelo says something, and I think the forward where he says,

1593
01:16:03,160 --> 01:16:06,320
Speaker 1: Santiago is my journey, but it's your journey, because one

1594
01:16:06,320 --> 01:16:08,920
Speaker 1: man's journey is everyone's journey. And that was the unlock

1595
01:16:09,000 --> 01:16:11,840
Speaker 1: for me and the permission for me to like tell

1596
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 1: my story, and there is like parallels within the Alchemists

1597
01:16:15,960 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 1: and my natural story. But it's not a complete side

1598
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: by side thing. It's just it was a lighthouse for me,

1599
01:16:23,080 --> 01:16:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, the wind and oasis. It was things that

1600
01:16:26,760 --> 01:16:29,479
Speaker 1: I related to, but I still had my own input on.

1601
01:16:29,920 --> 01:16:31,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, complete framework and lighthouse.

1602
01:16:31,800 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 2: And he's a genius. Yeah it's beautiful with the album

1603
01:16:34,320 --> 01:16:36,800
Speaker 2: and what did he say? Yeah he likes it. So

1604
01:16:36,840 --> 01:16:39,559
Speaker 2: it's like that to me, was like, this is insane.

1605
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,280
Speaker 2: That's beautiful, man, what a beautiful hemage to like, you know.

1606
01:16:42,439 --> 01:16:45,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was nervous because I'm like, it was so

1607
01:16:45,600 --> 01:16:47,800
Speaker 1: so insane. I start making this album summer twenty twenty one.

1608
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 1: He doesn't follow me on Twitter randomly, like right when

1609
01:16:50,840 --> 01:16:52,679
Speaker 1: I start to make it, he follows me on Twitter.

1610
01:16:52,880 --> 01:16:54,599
Speaker 1: You know, he follows like one hundred and sixty people.

1611
01:16:54,760 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 1: And I was like, what are the odds that, like,

1612
01:16:57,120 --> 01:16:58,720
Speaker 1: while I'm making this, but you know, if you read

1613
01:16:58,720 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 1: the Alchemist the Signs and all these things, I'm like,

1614
01:17:00,720 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: all right, clearly I'm supposed to be reading this or

1615
01:17:03,280 --> 01:17:05,000
Speaker 1: unless he's got the room bugged, like I don't know

1616
01:17:05,000 --> 01:17:08,280
Speaker 1: what's going on, but I so I told right when

1617
01:17:08,320 --> 01:17:09,639
Speaker 1: he followed me, I told him, I was like, Yo,

1618
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 1: I'm actually making an album about like loosely inspired by

1619
01:17:13,080 --> 01:17:13,599
Speaker 1: the Alchemist.

1620
01:17:13,640 --> 01:17:15,719
Speaker 2: And he was like, that's so great.

1621
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:19,160
Speaker 1: Keep me posted and he would like check in periodically

1622
01:17:19,240 --> 01:17:20,439
Speaker 1: like yo, how's it coming.

1623
01:17:20,479 --> 01:17:23,120
Speaker 2: And he doesn't follow me anymore. I don't think it's personal.

1624
01:17:22,800 --> 01:17:22,960
Speaker 3: But.

1625
01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:26,240
Speaker 2: I love it. I love it.

1626
01:17:26,280 --> 01:17:29,680
Speaker 3: You just you took Santiago down a different pop Yeah. Yeah, yeah, No,

1627
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:30,599
Speaker 3: that's beautiful, man.

1628
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:31,760
Speaker 2: I love that. I love that.

1629
01:17:32,160 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 3: If there's one song, Russ, You've been amazing. This has

1630
01:17:35,040 --> 01:17:37,120
Speaker 3: been such a it's always great avenue here. I've got

1631
01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:39,160
Speaker 3: two questions for you. One is is there anything I

1632
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:40,720
Speaker 3: haven't asked you that you want to talk about? Because

1633
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 3: you're a friend and I have to honor you with

1634
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:44,519
Speaker 3: that question. Is there anything we haven't dove into that

1635
01:17:44,600 --> 01:17:46,120
Speaker 3: you're like, yeah, I want to talk about this, this,

1636
01:17:46,360 --> 01:17:48,040
Speaker 3: or even if it's quieter, and you're like, it's in

1637
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:48,640
Speaker 3: my heart right now.

1638
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 2: I need to say the floor is yours? No, I

1639
01:17:51,280 --> 01:17:53,880
Speaker 2: think honestly, I think we touched on every everything.

1640
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm really really happy with that. I appreciate

1641
01:17:56,600 --> 01:17:57,400
Speaker 1: you having me for of.

1642
01:17:57,439 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 2: Course, man, I appreciate you.

1643
01:17:58,560 --> 01:18:00,679
Speaker 3: I was looking you can come back on whenever you want,

1644
01:18:00,720 --> 01:18:03,599
Speaker 3: Like this is like it's it's I love conversations where

1645
01:18:03,640 --> 01:18:05,519
Speaker 3: they really are just like a back and forth and

1646
01:18:06,000 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 3: that's how I feel with you. I'm just like we

1647
01:18:08,080 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 3: can just talk about stuff and figure stuff out and

1648
01:18:11,400 --> 01:18:13,160
Speaker 3: not know the answer and yeah, you know.

1649
01:18:13,280 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 2: But if there's one, I'm gonna say my one.

1650
01:18:16,120 --> 01:18:18,040
Speaker 3: You can say, what is the one track you want

1651
01:18:18,080 --> 01:18:21,519
Speaker 3: everyone to go stream after listening to this episode? Which

1652
01:18:21,560 --> 01:18:22,360
Speaker 3: one would you recommend?

1653
01:18:22,760 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 1: Boy?

1654
01:18:23,080 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 2: I was gonna say the same one.

1655
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's so aligned with today's conversation. But

1656
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 3: the other ones that I recommend too that we discuss today,

1657
01:18:30,080 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 3: Fraud really powerful, Oasis, highly recommend to as well. And

1658
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:35,599
Speaker 3: then of course go listen to the whole album.

1659
01:18:35,680 --> 01:18:35,880
Speaker 2: Russ.

1660
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 3: You've been amazing to have back on. I appreciate you

1661
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:42,040
Speaker 3: so much as a as a human, as an artist.

1662
01:18:42,600 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 3: I don't know anyone who's made mental health and music

1663
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:49,160
Speaker 3: seem that core as you have, which I love because

1664
01:18:49,680 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 3: it's it's my life's work. But seeing you do it

1665
01:18:51,760 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 3: in your way is so empowering, and I think there

1666
01:18:54,640 --> 01:18:56,960
Speaker 3: are a whole group of listeners that are going to

1667
01:18:57,040 --> 01:18:59,240
Speaker 3: come up and just have different viewpoints because of you.

1668
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,320
Speaker 3: So so man, Yeah you know it's happening already. It's happening.

1669
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:02,960
Speaker 3: It's happening.

1670
01:19:03,160 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 2: So but thank you, Man. I appreciate you being on

1671
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:06,160
Speaker 2: all banks and listen.

1672
01:19:06,200 --> 01:19:08,599
Speaker 1: It's a testament to like, the reason why I always

1673
01:19:08,640 --> 01:19:11,320
Speaker 1: want to come back here is because the energy you

1674
01:19:11,439 --> 01:19:15,320
Speaker 1: have and like the barriers down vibe you have where

1675
01:19:15,360 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: there's no judgment, and the depth you have. It was

1676
01:19:18,240 --> 01:19:19,840
Speaker 1: just such a no brainer for me to like, I

1677
01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:22,200
Speaker 1: always got to go back and sit with him because

1678
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:24,639
Speaker 1: it's just such a like even the energy in this room,

1679
01:19:24,720 --> 01:19:29,240
Speaker 1: it's just so curious and like safe, you know, so than.

1680
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 2: You've had to you.

1681
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:33,040
Speaker 3: Thank you for saying that, Man, I appreciate it anytime, Yeah, anytime,

1682
01:19:33,040 --> 01:19:35,040
Speaker 3: And everyone's been listening, watching wherever you are, with you

1683
01:19:35,439 --> 01:19:38,680
Speaker 3: walking your dog, whether you're cooking, whether you're driving to

1684
01:19:38,760 --> 01:19:40,960
Speaker 3: and from work, or whether you're at the gym. Make

1685
01:19:41,040 --> 01:19:43,719
Speaker 3: sure you tag me and Russ in all your posts

1686
01:19:43,720 --> 01:19:46,680
Speaker 3: on TikTok on Instagram, let us know what resonated with you,

1687
01:19:46,760 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 3: what stuck out to you on Twitter on threads. I

1688
01:19:49,240 --> 01:19:51,519
Speaker 3: love seeing the little clips. I love seeing how you're

1689
01:19:51,600 --> 01:19:53,640
Speaker 3: enjoying the podcast. It means the world to me, I know,

1690
01:19:53,840 --> 01:19:56,120
Speaker 3: mean a lot to Russ and tag Us when you're

1691
01:19:56,160 --> 01:19:59,519
Speaker 3: streaming as well. Santiago, it's out right now. Thank you

1692
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:02,519
Speaker 3: so much. If you love this episode, you love my

1693
01:20:02,640 --> 01:20:06,360
Speaker 3: interview with Will Smith on owning your truth and unlocking

1694
01:20:06,439 --> 01:20:07,840
Speaker 3: the power of manifestation.

1695
01:20:08,240 --> 01:20:11,880
Speaker 2: Anybody who hasn't spoken to their parents or their brother,

1696
01:20:12,400 --> 01:20:15,000
Speaker 2: call them right now.

1697
01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,000
Speaker 3: Don't think you're going to have a chance to call

1698
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:18,840
Speaker 3: them tomorrow or next week.

1699
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:24,559
Speaker 2: That opportunity with my father changed every relationship in my life.