1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,599
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

5
00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,160
Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

6
00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:30,640
Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

7
00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,199
Speaker 1: producer Alexis code named doct Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you

8
00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,400
Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this the

9
00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,240
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. It is Thursday,

10
00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:47,320
Speaker 1: which means it is time for our weekly listener mail segment,

11
00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,360
Speaker 1: and we want to thank as always everybody who has

12
00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,120
Speaker 1: written in, everybody who has taken the time not just

13
00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: to listen to this show, but to participate. You are

14
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,600
Speaker 1: again the most importan and part of what we do here.

15
00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,480
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk today about some things that were weighing

16
00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 1: on the minds of many of our fellow conspiracy realists,

17
00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:15,160
Speaker 1: including whether or not you actually own a thing you buy,

18
00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:19,360
Speaker 1: whether or not there's something amiss in the roads and

19
00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 1: interstates of Montana, and perhaps we begin with one of

20
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:28,760
Speaker 1: our favorite things, a very classic textbook, stuff they don't

21
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,640
Speaker 1: want you to know. A moment someone saw something strange

22
00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,480
Speaker 1: in the sky. Now, Matt, this is this is something

23
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,080
Speaker 1: that really stuck out to you. Correct, Oh, it did.

24
00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:43,640
Speaker 1: In that I was listening to a ton of voicemails

25
00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,040
Speaker 1: and then this one hit my ears and I went, yes,

26
00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 1: I we are playing this on the air specifically because

27
00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,200
Speaker 1: of this person's name. Not really, that's a great story.

28
00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:57,160
Speaker 1: Let's listen to it. Hey, guys, UM, my name is

29
00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:03,360
Speaker 1: Fox from Southwest Ohio. Um. Last night, around in the evening,

30
00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:07,840
Speaker 1: I went downstairs to do my usual routinely checks to

31
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:09,920
Speaker 1: make sure the house was locked up and the lights

32
00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: throw on and let the dogs out and get some water.

33
00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:16,000
Speaker 1: As I was getting ready to go upstairs, I'm standing

34
00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 1: in front of the kitchen stint and above that as

35
00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,680
Speaker 1: a window that looked outside out to my neighbor's house.

36
00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,000
Speaker 1: And above that there was a line of clouds was

37
00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 1: heat lightning, and I'm sitting there and watching it. Um.

38
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:31,359
Speaker 1: Earlier in the day it was like a d seven

39
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,000
Speaker 1: degrees with the index, and I'm just sitting there watching,

40
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,839
Speaker 1: you know, the beautiful light up of the sky, and

41
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,040
Speaker 1: I'm thinking to myself, Man, wouldn't it be grat to

42
00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:47,200
Speaker 1: see at ufo? I said to myself, you know, thinking

43
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,120
Speaker 1: to myself in my mind like projecting it, like, you know,

44
00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,480
Speaker 1: give me a sign. And there was like a flash

45
00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 1: of lightning, and I said, wow, what a coincidence. And

46
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,080
Speaker 1: I said to myself, what if you know that happens again.

47
00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: I was like, come on, guys, really show me. Are

48
00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:04,519
Speaker 1: out there, and from above the cloud banks there was

49
00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,800
Speaker 1: a clearing of clear sky and I saw a white

50
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,600
Speaker 1: light was a little tiny red light, and I'm like,

51
00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, is this a star? Is this a plane?

52
00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,799
Speaker 1: And I'm just sin sing standing here in front of

53
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:20,320
Speaker 1: my window. Um, and it was there and it was

54
00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,400
Speaker 1: just slowly moving to the left, slowly moving to the right,

55
00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 1: and it was like that for maybe about fifteen or

56
00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. UM. I did not look away, uh, thinking

57
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,919
Speaker 1: to myself could this be a plane or satellite? It

58
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:36,600
Speaker 1: could not be a plane or satellite the way it

59
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,800
Speaker 1: was moving, um, back and forth in the sky. And

60
00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,119
Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it was gone. And I'm

61
00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:49,240
Speaker 1: thinking to myself like wow, like I really saw something. Um.

62
00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,200
Speaker 1: You know, I was by myself. My two dogs were

63
00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,600
Speaker 1: in the kitchen like walking around. UM. My wife was

64
00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,800
Speaker 1: upstairs with their son. Um. I'm thinking myself, shouldn't even

65
00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,320
Speaker 1: tell her freak her out. You know, we're in the

66
00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,760
Speaker 1: kind of all that stuff. Um. So again I went upstairs.

67
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:06,280
Speaker 1: I told my wife, she's like a choking I'm like, no,

68
00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,600
Speaker 1: I'm being dead serious. And I remember watching a documentary

69
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,600
Speaker 1: with the guy from the Steady Project that was saying

70
00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:17,600
Speaker 1: that looking up and and like connecting with them up

71
00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,039
Speaker 1: in the sky, and I thought, maybe that's what I

72
00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,320
Speaker 1: could have done. And it happened. And I swear to

73
00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:27,080
Speaker 1: you like this happened. Um. But yeah, please use my

74
00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,680
Speaker 1: stuff online or um through a podcast. I really appreciate

75
00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,560
Speaker 1: you guys and all listenings for the last few years. Um,

76
00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:36,080
Speaker 1: you guys are off. Um, thank you so much, and

77
00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,160
Speaker 1: have a great one. Alright, alright, Yeah, it's really really

78
00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 1: cool story to me, And thank you so much Fox

79
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,080
Speaker 1: for calling in and sharing that story with us. We

80
00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:50,200
Speaker 1: share that feeling maybe of when something happens that you're

81
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,360
Speaker 1: not really sure what it was, and and that apprehension

82
00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 1: you may have for sharing it with anybody, right, and

83
00:04:57,160 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 1: we do appreciate that you shared it with us. Just

84
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:02,680
Speaker 1: first of all, one of my favorite things in the world,

85
00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:08,080
Speaker 1: seriously is heat lightning. When there are big clouds and

86
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,560
Speaker 1: a lot of light that's fairly constant. It's just kind

87
00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:14,400
Speaker 1: of going off and going off way more frequently than

88
00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,719
Speaker 1: a standard thunderstorm or something. Um, it's just something to

89
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 1: behold and it doesn't feel as scary personally and selfishly,

90
00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:27,040
Speaker 1: perhaps my dogs don't get as nervous and I can

91
00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,680
Speaker 1: just enjoy it without all the barking and panting and drooling.

92
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:34,880
Speaker 1: Um Uh, There's a lot I want to talk about

93
00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 1: with this encounter you guys, But just what are your

94
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,560
Speaker 1: first impressions upon hearing that story from Fox? Certainly has

95
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,040
Speaker 1: some hallmarks of things we've heard before. Yeah, yeah, Fox,

96
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,280
Speaker 1: this is a great story, and this is one that

97
00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:50,600
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people can relate to because

98
00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:55,880
Speaker 1: heat lightning itself, while science has a has a pretty

99
00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: good handle on explaining it, and you can't say the

100
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:05,960
Speaker 1: same about ball lightning. Heat lightning is a fascinating, beautiful phenomenon.

101
00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,919
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about this story, man, I think you

102
00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:13,760
Speaker 1: saw me taking some notes here, is that there's in

103
00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,240
Speaker 1: Fox's description there are a couple of things that really

104
00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:23,160
Speaker 1: stood out. First, the movement of the U A P

105
00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,960
Speaker 1: that he saw. Because Fox, you didn't say it was

106
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 1: an object of any sort, right, you said, I saw

107
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:34,719
Speaker 1: these lights, I saw this pattern of their movement, and

108
00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:40,000
Speaker 1: it sounds like this was a fairly regular pattern until

109
00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:44,480
Speaker 1: it completely disappeared. One of my first questions was whether

110
00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:48,479
Speaker 1: or not it could have seemed to disappear because it

111
00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 1: was included by other clouds, you know what I mean,

112
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,680
Speaker 1: Like something may have just gotten in front of what

113
00:06:54,720 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 1: you were seeing. What do you think about that, Matt Well?

114
00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:00,440
Speaker 1: First of all, word of a Day included everyone it down.

115
00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,760
Speaker 1: We have those on this show frequently, well, like included

116
00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 1: like a cult hidden. No, I know, I know. I'm

117
00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,080
Speaker 1: just nobody reads as much as you've been. That's all.

118
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,520
Speaker 1: That's all I'm saying. And it's good. Everybody write it.

119
00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,880
Speaker 1: Everybody write it down. Included as a cool word to use.

120
00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:21,320
Speaker 1: Most people probably read more than more than us. The

121
00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:25,120
Speaker 1: three of us can bind. Actually, the biggest reader peak

122
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:27,480
Speaker 1: behind the curtain. The biggest reader on our show is

123
00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: probably code named doc. Oh most certainly, yeah, most certainly.

124
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 1: I never I never learned to read you all, hey, exactly.

125
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,520
Speaker 1: I just do like text to speech and audio books,

126
00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:43,960
Speaker 1: and it's gotten me by just fine. Thank you very much. Excellent, excellent,

127
00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,040
Speaker 1: we're joking here everyone, But um, that's a great question

128
00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 1: been like whether or not the clouds itself or the

129
00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,000
Speaker 1: thing that caused it to seem to disappear. Right, The

130
00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,760
Speaker 1: other big question is when it disappeared. What, Yeah, was

131
00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,720
Speaker 1: their movement at all associated with the lights themselves as

132
00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,520
Speaker 1: it disappeared, right? Was there an upward movement, a doward

133
00:08:02,560 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: movement of don't seemed to go away or just covered up?

134
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,920
Speaker 1: That's a great question. Something you want to pose it

135
00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,560
Speaker 1: to you guys. White and red lights in combination. To me,

136
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: I associate that with aircraft because that is very common

137
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,840
Speaker 1: to to have some flashing lights, generally red and white,

138
00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,360
Speaker 1: sometimes other a few other colors. To me, that feels

139
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,120
Speaker 1: like man man made craft. But I don't know what

140
00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 1: do you guys think. I mean, that certainly feels like

141
00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,520
Speaker 1: a safety mechanism that you would see with like a

142
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,240
Speaker 1: you know, low flying plane at night it's about to land.

143
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,679
Speaker 1: It's literally a visual that their traffic control can use

144
00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 1: to make sure they have a you know, a good visual.

145
00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,600
Speaker 1: So that certainly does appear to be something in that neighborhood. Yeah, yeah,

146
00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:52,319
Speaker 1: it feels like Fox would have noted if there were

147
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,199
Speaker 1: an airport nearby, right, and and it's true commercial airplanes

148
00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 1: at least from what I understand, have these red lights

149
00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 1: on the top and the bottom of the aircraft kind

150
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,400
Speaker 1: of to give you a sense of where it is

151
00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,480
Speaker 1: in three dimensional space. The question would be whether or

152
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,000
Speaker 1: not those were flashing. I think someone correct me. We've

153
00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,400
Speaker 1: got a lot of aviators in the audience. Are the

154
00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 1: red beacons always on or is it a taxing thing

155
00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 1: or do they have you know, like, are they on

156
00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:31,560
Speaker 1: when you're in flight or are they strobing when you're landing?

157
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,800
Speaker 1: Those are good questions to ask and and you know,

158
00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,160
Speaker 1: to be very clear what we're doing right now, Fox

159
00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 1: is sort of the three of us are turning around

160
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 1: in our heads the mystery, and we we always start

161
00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:48,520
Speaker 1: with like the facts, what's the mundane stuff, and what

162
00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:53,840
Speaker 1: are what are the possibilities? We are also, by the way,

163
00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 1: we are recording in expectation of a of a storm

164
00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,320
Speaker 1: on the way or so we might have some lightning

165
00:10:02,440 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: make an appearance on the show. Hopefully the power stays

166
00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,160
Speaker 1: on now since it's been out we've had spotty power

167
00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,719
Speaker 1: for several days here, and just so everyone knows, it's

168
00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:18,400
Speaker 1: August thirty one, hurricane, then tropical storm. Now Storm Ida

169
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,280
Speaker 1: is rolling over top of us as we speak, or

170
00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,320
Speaker 1: at least portions of the arms are kind of wrapping

171
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,360
Speaker 1: around Atlanta right now, which is a whole other topic.

172
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,640
Speaker 1: We need to at some point address the thing and

173
00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,120
Speaker 1: devastation that was Ida, But for now, let's stay here

174
00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:40,920
Speaker 1: with Fox. Another possible mundane explanation for this, Fox, and

175
00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:44,640
Speaker 1: and again not to deflate your story for doing the

176
00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,720
Speaker 1: same thing Ben just talked about. Uh, I was thinking

177
00:10:47,720 --> 00:10:50,240
Speaker 1: a weather balloon. Now you gotta kind of hear me

178
00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,800
Speaker 1: out for this. Oh, I think I see where you're going.

179
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:56,800
Speaker 1: This is awesome, all right, Okay, So, so it's not

180
00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,880
Speaker 1: often that a weather service would launch a weather balloon

181
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:04,160
Speaker 1: when lightning, at least in the moment if lightning is

182
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,680
Speaker 1: known to be occurring. It's just not smart to launch

183
00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:11,640
Speaker 1: your kind, you know, fairly expensive equipment when there's a

184
00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,880
Speaker 1: ton of lightning that could cause damage to it. But

185
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,120
Speaker 1: and it's also not very smart for the people on

186
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,760
Speaker 1: the ground launching a weather balloon when there's a lot

187
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:23,880
Speaker 1: of lightning. But the movement slowly perhaps to the left,

188
00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: slowly then to the right, but staying generally appear or

189
00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,719
Speaker 1: appearing to stay in generally the same I don't know

190
00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 1: a general area, but moving to the left and the right,

191
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:38,800
Speaker 1: that feels like air currents moving something. And if it's

192
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,640
Speaker 1: a heat lightning storm, it just depends on how quickly

193
00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,080
Speaker 1: that is moving through the area. Blah blah blah blah.

194
00:11:46,080 --> 00:11:48,160
Speaker 1: I'm not a weather expert, but this is just a

195
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,480
Speaker 1: you know, a possibility, given that there could be lights

196
00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,960
Speaker 1: associated with that craft or with that piece of equipment,

197
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,480
Speaker 1: as well as some movement. Yeah, and this is these

198
00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:03,240
Speaker 1: kinds of investigations are are crucial right there. They're incredibly important.

199
00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:08,319
Speaker 1: None of what we've said, whether weather, balloon, or commercial aircraft,

200
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:12,160
Speaker 1: none of that is a definitive answer because I think

201
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,360
Speaker 1: the first thing we need to do is figure out

202
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:18,640
Speaker 1: whether Fox has some local airports. You know, Yeah, you're right,

203
00:12:18,760 --> 00:12:21,440
Speaker 1: You're right, because you could if it was a plane

204
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 1: or something that was on its way into an airport,

205
00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 1: it could maybe look as though it's going left and

206
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 1: right slowly if it's far enough away and approaching. Was

207
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,120
Speaker 1: it a foggy night or like, was was there any

208
00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, um kind of something that could have caused

209
00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:40,520
Speaker 1: distortion of light? Perhaps Fox? What do you think oh cool,

210
00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,360
Speaker 1: there is Well, no, I just I think I think

211
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,160
Speaker 1: that's pertinent, you know. I mean, like a lot of

212
00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:48,120
Speaker 1: times if it's we've talked about this in the past,

213
00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:52,120
Speaker 1: if it's like a particularly foggy evening, um that can

214
00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 1: filter light in a way that creates the illusion of

215
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,520
Speaker 1: movement or creates the illusion of larger movement, or you know,

216
00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 1: it just kind of exaggerates things a little bit and

217
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,760
Speaker 1: it can make farther away things seem closer, you know,

218
00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:08,559
Speaker 1: or totally totally. We've we discussed that before on ground level,

219
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,839
Speaker 1: when there's visual distortions from lights that are far away, right,

220
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,719
Speaker 1: especially when there's fog involved. Yeah, I don't know any

221
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,240
Speaker 1: about that. Anything about that stuff. We can't prove what

222
00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,679
Speaker 1: it was from here at our desks. But I do

223
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,840
Speaker 1: want to talk about this concept that you brought up, Fox,

224
00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:28,679
Speaker 1: of thinking about wanting to see a UFO or a

225
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,960
Speaker 1: U a P or what some lights and then it

226
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,199
Speaker 1: happened right That to me kind of calls back to

227
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,800
Speaker 1: the conversation you guys had with Roderick Martin not long ago.

228
00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 1: I wasn't on that episode, but I got to listen

229
00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:46,920
Speaker 1: to it, and you know, outside of all the incredible

230
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,040
Speaker 1: movies that Roderick brought up. He had some really interesting

231
00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 1: stuff to say about that kind of thing that like

232
00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,800
Speaker 1: manifestation of an experience. I happen to catch one of

233
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:02,120
Speaker 1: roderick shows on Clubhouse before listening to y'all's conversation, and

234
00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:06,200
Speaker 1: the crux of that episode was all about manifesting or

235
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:11,000
Speaker 1: meditating and entering a state of like dream almost but

236
00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,400
Speaker 1: while waking to kind of welcome I guess the experience

237
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,560
Speaker 1: or in some way communicate. And that was very fascinating

238
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,520
Speaker 1: to me to hear a lot of maybe people who

239
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,760
Speaker 1: I would who would say are much more on the

240
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:31,040
Speaker 1: believer side than someone who's extremely skeptical. Right, And I'm

241
00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,240
Speaker 1: of two minds about it. In one way, I can

242
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:38,360
Speaker 1: totally see that if there's maybe something more to this

243
00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 1: consciousness thing that we can currently prove, maybe there is

244
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,640
Speaker 1: a thread of connection to something that if it does exist,

245
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,000
Speaker 1: perhaps there's a thread there. Right. The other part of

246
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,120
Speaker 1: me thinks, well, perhaps it's just you now very much

247
00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,360
Speaker 1: want to see something, and anything you see is going

248
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,600
Speaker 1: to be connected to that desire to see something, and

249
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 1: you go through the lid of that dissonance. I don't know,

250
00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:04,920
Speaker 1: after you guys talked with Roderick thinking about this, like,

251
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,840
Speaker 1: do you have any specific insight we one person's manifestation

252
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,480
Speaker 1: is another person's confirmation bias, Isn't it? The question here

253
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,800
Speaker 1: if we wanted to be again very grounded and mundane

254
00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:23,240
Speaker 1: about this, would be fox, the next time a storm

255
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 1: comes through your neck of the global woods, are you

256
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: going to make the mental space to try to stand

257
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,360
Speaker 1: in the same spot, try to get all the variables

258
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,960
Speaker 1: at the same level, and then ask the universe or

259
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,400
Speaker 1: the big what if whatever you wanna call it, to

260
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: show you something else? Yet, and uh, this is this

261
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,600
Speaker 1: is similar to the account we had about lost time

262
00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,520
Speaker 1: on the interstate. You guys remember that story where someone

263
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:57,080
Speaker 1: made an impossible, uh supernatural level shortcut and we asked

264
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,480
Speaker 1: this person if they could take the time to do

265
00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,360
Speaker 1: the drive again and see whether they could reproduce the effects.

266
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 1: So that would wasn't it marked by like a like

267
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:09,840
Speaker 1: a skip and like the song on the radio in

268
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 1: their mind or something like that, or it was something

269
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,520
Speaker 1: that marked time for them in that story? That was interesting.

270
00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:19,720
Speaker 1: I believe that's correct. Yeah, So so with this, with

271
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,840
Speaker 1: this in mind, another another thing to do would be

272
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,760
Speaker 1: to check with friends, neighbors in the community. If you

273
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,840
Speaker 1: really want to go deep, as we say, you can

274
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:34,360
Speaker 1: always contact you know, the f a A if it's

275
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,640
Speaker 1: worth your time and say, hey, what was flying over

276
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,880
Speaker 1: this specific date? Right? Um, they do keep track of

277
00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: those things. So I think it would be incredibly interesting.

278
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,800
Speaker 1: And I I agree with you, Matt. I think the

279
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:53,680
Speaker 1: most compelling part of the story is not necessarily what

280
00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:57,040
Speaker 1: was out there or what what you saw a Fox.

281
00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:01,680
Speaker 1: I think it's what happened right for that moment where

282
00:17:01,680 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 1: you said send me a side hashtag Ace of Bass. Yes,

283
00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,679
Speaker 1: that was them, right. It opened up my eyes and

284
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,000
Speaker 1: I'm happy now and now I want another baby. Oh wait,

285
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,120
Speaker 1: I'm mixing two songs together. It's too bass songs, but

286
00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:21,679
Speaker 1: they're they're eerily similar. They both have like kind of

287
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:25,760
Speaker 1: a reggae kind of bop to them, you know. Oh man,

288
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: all right, I've got to go to the roller rink

289
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:32,200
Speaker 1: now because uh, I can't hear that song without it. Um. Yeah,

290
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,480
Speaker 1: that's that's great. That's really great. You guys. I want

291
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 1: to put this out to Fox because I think you're

292
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:40,000
Speaker 1: running the money there. Ben. We got to reproduce. This

293
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,359
Speaker 1: is his last name. Molder yeah, obviously cool. Definitely, the

294
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,679
Speaker 1: Molders were having a great day. I wants to believe

295
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:54,000
Speaker 1: his last name is Molder. All right, So, um, this

296
00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 1: is this is what you have to do, Fox and

297
00:17:55,640 --> 00:17:59,480
Speaker 1: everybody else listening that wants these kinds of experiences. Take

298
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,480
Speaker 1: out a small a loan by an SLR camera. Go

299
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:06,399
Speaker 1: pick yourself up a Canon four hundred to six hundred

300
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,320
Speaker 1: millimeter lens. PLoP that lens on your camera. Might have

301
00:18:11,359 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 1: to get a ring that's the adapter. Um set it

302
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: up in whatever window you're gonna be looking for UFOs

303
00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:21,480
Speaker 1: and manifesting UFOs, and just prepare to take as many

304
00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:25,679
Speaker 1: photographs and or videos as you possibly can cool and

305
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,439
Speaker 1: then send them our way. We'll do this together. Remember

306
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,280
Speaker 1: it is going to require a small loan. It will

307
00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:34,480
Speaker 1: affect your credit score. Please please don't actually spend a

308
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,840
Speaker 1: ton of money on that. But that's really think about it.

309
00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:42,400
Speaker 1: That's the only way we can actually start getting enough

310
00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: verifiable proof, or at least proof that can be investigated

311
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:48,560
Speaker 1: to an extent that we would need to to be

312
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,879
Speaker 1: able to prove something was anomalous. Uh, because there are

313
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: people seeing things in the sky all the time. It's

314
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,480
Speaker 1: just nobody's got three grand to drop on a lens

315
00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:04,760
Speaker 1: or it's always the people. Yeah, heartbreaking. We should form

316
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:08,480
Speaker 1: an alliance between move On and all of the UH

317
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,840
Speaker 1: sports photographers for high schools, right, because they've all got

318
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,840
Speaker 1: those lenses. Let's let's join it, form a union. It

319
00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: will be a supergroup and we'll all just shoot pictures

320
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: of the sky. I think that's a great idea, of Matt. Uh.

321
00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 1: And since you came up with such a great idea,

322
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,240
Speaker 1: I vote that you are in charge of it. You

323
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:32,520
Speaker 1: can get that button, no problem, no problem. No, seriously,

324
00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:34,800
Speaker 1: do you want to take like a commercial break and

325
00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,240
Speaker 1: and and just handle that? Yeah, yeah, no problem. I'll

326
00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:40,840
Speaker 1: do that in the next uh. I guess it's around

327
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,800
Speaker 1: three minutes now, and uh We'll be right back. Thanks again,

328
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:46,280
Speaker 1: Fox for sharing your story with us. We hope you

329
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,399
Speaker 1: see something again soon if that's what you want. Otherwise,

330
00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,160
Speaker 1: just hope your dogs are great and your family is too.

331
00:19:52,680 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: Here's some mats and we have returned, Matt. How did

332
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,160
Speaker 1: it go? Well, we're all set up. We've got our

333
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 1: we got our nonprofit status or not for profit status. Nice. Nice,

334
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,000
Speaker 1: and we're gonna be working directly with Space Force and

335
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 1: Roderick Martin has already volunteered. He's gonna be like our

336
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,000
Speaker 1: official leader. I'm just going to be the guy behind

337
00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,800
Speaker 1: the scenes, you know. Yeah, Okay, yeah, I get that awesome.

338
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,199
Speaker 1: So we're off to a rollicking start there. Please send, seriously, folks,

339
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 1: please send us your reports of strange things you have

340
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,400
Speaker 1: seen in the sky or strange things that you have

341
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:43,640
Speaker 1: seen in the empty, lonely areas of your your local region,

342
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,199
Speaker 1: because there are many, many empty places, and that's something

343
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,760
Speaker 1: a lot of folks, I think don't understand about the

344
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,920
Speaker 1: United States, or you know, the whole of North America,

345
00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 1: Mexico and Canada included. There are many, any, many empty places,

346
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,800
Speaker 1: and there are places where you could, if you were

347
00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: on foot, walk for days or weeks and never see

348
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:14,600
Speaker 1: another living human being. This is something we forget when

349
00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:19,479
Speaker 1: the majority of the human population lives in cities. And

350
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 1: this brings us to our next piece of correspondence, our

351
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:28,160
Speaker 1: fellow conspiracy realist Panda. Joe Panda, here's what you said,

352
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,879
Speaker 1: great show, guys. I've run into something strange and my

353
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,680
Speaker 1: Google searches are coming up wanting my parents broke down

354
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 1: recently on I E. D. That's center State E D

355
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 1: between Battle Mountain, Nevada and when a mucha Nevada. Excuse

356
00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: my pronunciation here, some people I'm told pronounce it Nevada

357
00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 1: anyway between Battle Mountain and Wennemuco. While driving a trailer

358
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,159
Speaker 1: to pick up a car they were buying, the seller

359
00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 1: offered to come thirty three miles to pick them up

360
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,840
Speaker 1: rather than let them wait for a tow truck. After

361
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: he got there, listen to this part, guys. After he

362
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: got there, he told them he didn't want to scare them,

363
00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 1: but there have been a number of disappearances on that

364
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,800
Speaker 1: stretch of highway where the bodies have never been found.

365
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: This is why he came out to pick them up.

366
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: They were at exit to twelve and I could find

367
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 1: two disappearances on exit two oh five. I wondered if

368
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 1: people were breaking down and trying to walk out, but

369
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: apparently the cars still worked. The cars. Uh, this is

370
00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 1: our part. The cars that were found when these people disappeared.

371
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 1: It's well known to the locals, says Panda Joe, and

372
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,480
Speaker 1: they suspect a serial killers picked up activity in the

373
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: last several months. It also figures into the Nevada Triangle

374
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: phenomena and clusters of disappearances talked about in a couple

375
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: of books by a former officer, David Politis, author of

376
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: Missing four one one. The YouTube video on the triangle

377
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: is titled I Team Nevada Triangles Unexplained Disappearances. I'm a

378
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,760
Speaker 1: former prison guard term truck driver, and I've had several

379
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: conversations with actual serial killers. It's fun to tell them

380
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,960
Speaker 1: you've never heard of them before. By the way, so

381
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: I know it's not out of the realm of possibility

382
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,440
Speaker 1: for a serial killer to use a stretch of road

383
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: as his I'm gonna point this out or her or

384
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 1: they're hunting grounds. Thought you might be interested. Keep up

385
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: the good work. They call me Panda Joe. What do

386
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 1: you guys think? Well, first of all, I think that's

387
00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: probably my favorite nickname of the last little while. We've

388
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 1: had some good ones. But Panda Joe, um, big big

389
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: fan of you already a good nickname, gives you, gives

390
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:46,040
Speaker 1: you questions immediately, Toss, I would just say, this is

391
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:50,520
Speaker 1: a pretty horrifying way to learn that there's a possibly

392
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 1: a serial killer in your midst right in your immediate vicinity.

393
00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: Knowing you know, I guess being in his parents situation

394
00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:01,439
Speaker 1: or hearing about it second hand from his parents that

395
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 1: they were in that situation. And as we've talked about

396
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: recently the Atlanta supposed Atlanta serial killer, we know maybe

397
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: what it feels like to have the specter of a killer. Yeah,

398
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: and I would say that's a that's a pretty astutent comparison,

399
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 1: because people were and are rightly terrified and frightened, and

400
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 1: if they feel the news and the local law enforcement

401
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: are not giving them answers, then people recognize patterns to

402
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: the point that the brain generates a pattern and then

403
00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: tells you it just recognized it and didn't create it.

404
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: This is something that I think should be a future

405
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 1: episode because as far as I can tell, the disappearances

406
00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: that I've found looking into this panda, they have yet

407
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: to be explained. And the deeper you go, the weirder

408
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:01,760
Speaker 1: this gets. So first we should establish what Interstate eight is,

409
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:05,919
Speaker 1: because a lot of people have not driven on it.

410
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: It's an east west interstate and it starts in San

411
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: Francisco and it ends in New Jersey, so like in

412
00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 1: the New York metro area, it's old, right, It's like

413
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: the rest of the inter state system. And it comes

414
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 1: around from the fifties post World War Two, it gets

415
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:31,800
Speaker 1: the final stretches opened in in the eighties, and it

416
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:37,080
Speaker 1: is the second longest interstate in the country. I mean,

417
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: think about it. You can literally drive coast to coast.

418
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 1: It'll take you a while, but you'll get there as

419
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: long as you don't stop in the at the wrong stretch.

420
00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:50,640
Speaker 1: And I wrote back to Panda and you guys saw

421
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: this where I was essentially a little bit haunted because

422
00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 1: we have looked at operations of suspected serial kill lers

423
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: on roadways in Canada and the US, particularly a stretch

424
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: of road in Texas. We're not the only people looking

425
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: into this. The FBI is actively tracking this with some

426
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: of the same suspicions. So the bad news is that

427
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: this is not implausible. The bad news is that this

428
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: is not impossible. It is very much possible that there

429
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: could be a serial murderer or murderers active in this

430
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: in this area, or at least that it might be

431
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: part of their territory, their range, their circuit. But we

432
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 1: also have to remember that serial killers, despite what fiction

433
00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: would have us believe, are extraordinarily rare. It's not your

434
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 1: everyday person and There are a lot of people who

435
00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: potentially could have become serial murderers, but they're apprehended right

436
00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: for another petty crime, or for they get caught their

437
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,639
Speaker 1: first time out or something like this. I think the

438
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: scariest thing and the spookies thing for a lot of

439
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 1: people now is the idea that there are these unexplained

440
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: disappearances and there are cars that just appeared to be abandoned,

441
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 1: as if the person parked them and just walked away forever?

442
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: Am I missreading? That? Was that spooky to you guys

443
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: as well? Definitely, that's insanely spooky. I was just briefly

444
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,439
Speaker 1: reading because of this email about I think his name

445
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,960
Speaker 1: is Pat or Patrick Carnes is an older gentleman who

446
00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: was with his dog. That It was exactly how you

447
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: described it, Ben. The vehicle was found, but he and

448
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: his dog were not, almost as though they went out

449
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: to maybe let the dog out to go to the

450
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:49,320
Speaker 1: bathroom or something, and then they just disappeared. It also

451
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,400
Speaker 1: makes me think about the show. Both of you guys

452
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: have been a part of Happy Face, and I think

453
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: the first season deals with the killer that was a

454
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: truck driver right, that was m yea long haul truck driver. Um,

455
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 1: pretty good cover, you know, moving around a lot, able

456
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 1: to prey on people that are maybe you know, in need, um,

457
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: hitchhikers and transients, folks that are moving from place to

458
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 1: place and that maybe don't have family. Um. And that's

459
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: exactly what this person did. Keith jesperson. Yeah, and this

460
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: one feels more like it's just commuters or or you know,

461
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:32,640
Speaker 1: someone on a trip, essentially a long haul trip. Yeah.

462
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: The two most common names were here and the ones

463
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: I think that you're referencing here Panda are as batt said,

464
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: Patrick Carney's. And then another person, Judith Casida. And this

465
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 1: is a very rural part of Nevada or Nevada Pato Potato. Uh.

466
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: The question is whether these are connected. In our earlier

467
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:59,680
Speaker 1: episode on the ghost town of Port Lock, Alaska or

468
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 1: Port Chatham, we talked in hopefully very helpful, realistic terms

469
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: about how just just how dangerous wilderness is if you

470
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: are not accustomed to it. You don't I mean, yes,

471
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: be aware of coyote, be aware of moose, be aware

472
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: of mountain lions, but also be very aware of your

473
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: ankles because a broken one in the middle of nowhere

474
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 1: is more likely and Uh is more likely to kill you,

475
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,280
Speaker 1: and it's more dangerous in terms of plausibility. So the

476
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: question here is did these people you know, for some

477
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 1: reason pull a pseudo side and faked their deaths? Probably not,

478
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: at least in the case of Patrick Harney's because he

479
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: was well into his eighties from what I understand. And

480
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 1: did they get kidnapped right? Did they were they abducted? UH?

481
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 1: Did they wander off and then have some accident away

482
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:03,600
Speaker 1: from the infrastructure of modern civilism Asian These are all possibilities,

483
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: and we can't really do the story under the investigation

484
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 1: Justice in a Listener Male segment. But the strangest thing

485
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: about it, I went into some forums where people who

486
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: kind of travel off the grid talk to each other,

487
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,719
Speaker 1: and I was surprised to find that in this very

488
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: same rough ballpark area of Nevada, there have been reports

489
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,000
Speaker 1: of people hitchhiking and saying that they were threatened by

490
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: folks who tried to pick them up like they got

491
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 1: a super bad vibe, or that they picked up a

492
00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: hitchhiker and that they themselves had a very off putting vibe,

493
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: which is why I highly recommend book called The Gift

494
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: of Fear by a guy named Gavin de Becker. It's

495
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: the full title is The Gift of Fear Survived. The

496
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: Signals that protect us from violence. If you have ever

497
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: had a we've all had it. Right. You meet somebody

498
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: and you can't explain why, but they've got a bad

499
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: vibe about them. Have you ever encountered that? Absolutely, it's

500
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: usually an accurate perception. People say they have that with

501
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 1: me all the time. No, they don't. Math they do

502
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: not say that. That's crazy talk. Well, if they say

503
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: that they can't hang out with us, you emanate good vibes.

504
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 1: So there's this thing that's tough to quantify. Right, if

505
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: you feel uncomfortable in this situation, you're not sure why, right,

506
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: and you meet someone and there's just something about them

507
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,960
Speaker 1: that's like nails on a chalkboard, or there's something about

508
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: your interaction or something you seem to subconsciously sense that

509
00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: is screaming to your conscious mind. G T f O.

510
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: If that happens, pay attention to it. If you're If

511
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: you're wrong, what does that mean. It means you left

512
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 1: the situation earlier than you would have. But if you're

513
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: correct and you ignore that vibe, then um, yeah, you're

514
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: possibly running a risk. So what we're saying about this

515
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: is that right now, it's very difficult to get our

516
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: heads around the entirety of what you're describing. Yes, Panda,

517
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: a lot of people disappear. We had David on our

518
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: show a number of years ago, and looking into his

519
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 1: citations and looking into his research, he's not exaggerating how

520
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,400
Speaker 1: many people have seemed to disappear, but he's Uh. The

521
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 1: one thing he was very careful not to do, I

522
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: recall correctly was he did not want to attribute a

523
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,720
Speaker 1: specific cause. No, I mean that was sort of his

524
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: whole thing that it was very important to him. It

525
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: was definitely not bigfoot right. Also, the this is where

526
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: we learned that the federal government doesn't keep a cohesive

527
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 1: or comprehensive database of just how many individuals disappear on

528
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: government land, which seems like something I don't know if

529
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: anybody else has ever paid taxes, Call me a rube,

530
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 1: but it feels like that that's something that tax dollars

531
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 1: should go toward, right am I am I crazy? Here? Like?

532
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,400
Speaker 1: Should we not keep track of people who are just

533
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: disappearing in the forest? But there's so many? How could

534
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: we possibly communing with nature forever. I can't even I

535
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,760
Speaker 1: can't even get away with like a late library book,

536
00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 1: and these people are out here disappearing. This is not

537
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:52,960
Speaker 1: to make light of this, by the way, it is.

538
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,040
Speaker 1: It is a very strange discrepancy that a government obsessed

539
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 1: with surveillance seems to be unable to surveil you know,

540
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 1: some pretty prominent cases. So with this, we're gonna pause

541
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:10,040
Speaker 1: because we are going to dive into this in a

542
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: future episode and we're going to look at the logistics,

543
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 1: the timelines, the possibilities, be they mundane or be they

544
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 1: extremely disturbing, And to do that we will need your help. So,

545
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: if you are a local of Nevada, if you have experience,

546
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,360
Speaker 1: whether it's a you know, a long haul trucker or

547
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,879
Speaker 1: something like that on Interstate, a d right to us,

548
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 1: call us let us know conspiracy at I Heart radio

549
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:42,759
Speaker 1: dot com what eight three three st d w y

550
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,560
Speaker 1: t K. We want to hear what you think about

551
00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: the idea of a serial murderer or murderers operating on Interstate.

552
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: Eight will pause for a word from our sponsor and

553
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: then we will hopefully move on to something a little

554
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:08,799
Speaker 1: less dark. I don't know you never do, and we're

555
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: back with the aforementioned promise of something a little less dark. Uh.

556
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: In fact, we might even get a little zen with

557
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: this one. Guys, what do you think do please? Yeah?

558
00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: So a listener wrote into us who asked to go

559
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:29,839
Speaker 1: by Dallas Girl, and Dallas Girl was interested in the

560
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 1: last Strange News episode that we did called only Fans

561
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: of Hiking, Murder Mystery and the real reason fast food

562
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: ice cream machines are a pain um And this is

563
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: what Dallas Girl had to say. I learned about right

564
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:44,960
Speaker 1: to Repair as a concept and a movement within the

565
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: past few months from a YouTuber and repair business owner

566
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: named Lewis Rossman. His information can be found in his

567
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 1: YouTube channel called Lewis Rossman. I thought perhaps you could

568
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:56,400
Speaker 1: have him on as a guest or give him a

569
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: shout out uh to his YouTube channel in an episode

570
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 1: to bring more away Aaron is too Right to Repair.

571
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: I've reached out to Louis as well to let him

572
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: know about this episodes. Hopefully you will hear from him yourself. Cool.

573
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 1: It would be awesome to hear my email on air.

574
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: If you do read an episode, please attribute it to

575
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 1: Dallas Girl, which I have done. Thanks Dallas girl. Rossman, Matt,

576
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,440
Speaker 1: it is my understand that you are familiar with Lewis Rossman.

577
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 1: Is that right? I am, as are millions of other people,

578
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:25,560
Speaker 1: I assume at this point. And I don't care about that.

579
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:27,959
Speaker 1: Man's when what you think I do? And Doc, don't

580
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 1: cut out the part where I yelled Rossman, that's a

581
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:33,319
Speaker 1: literal shout up that shot I got, I gotta gotta

582
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,480
Speaker 1: got it last time. I don't think you were here

583
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: for this. No. Uh, for some reason or another, when

584
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: we had finished an episode where we mentioned right to

585
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 1: repair before Ben and I just happened to be the

586
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:46,840
Speaker 1: last two people to click out of the zoom, and

587
00:36:46,840 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 1: I mentioned, oh, but there's this guy on YouTube, Lewis Rossman,

588
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: and we were we discussed it for a while and

589
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,480
Speaker 1: it's we only know about it well because you know,

590
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 1: we were on in the YouTube game for a long time.

591
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 1: And uh, Lewis's been doing this for a long time.

592
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: You should see you should see his original videos, like

593
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: the first ones that he was doing when the company

594
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: was called something Different, and uh, he was just starting

595
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: to get comfortable on camera. At this point. He's like

596
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 1: a freaking YouTube star and he fights for this kind

597
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,239
Speaker 1: of stuff, not only because he has a business associated

598
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: with it. You know, they make money repairing stuff, a

599
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 1: lot of electronic equipment. He and everybody that works with

600
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: him and for him, But he really gives off this

601
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 1: sense that it's a right that humans have to to

602
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,560
Speaker 1: do this stuff when we're purchasing any kind of equipment

603
00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: from a big company. And it's always kind of been

604
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: that way, but then stuff changed all of a sudden

605
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: because the companies have money. Yeah, I need to dig

606
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,360
Speaker 1: into this guy. He's got one point six one million

607
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: subs on his page, which is just Lewis Rossman UM.

608
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: The Rossman Repair Group is the name of his his company,

609
00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: I guess, And yeah, very much. Similarly, there's even like

610
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 1: video of him test flying UH in Washington, you know,

611
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 1: in front of a panel UM on the issue of

612
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 1: right to repair. I believe this was Senate Bill fifty

613
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: seven nine nine that was voted on a year ago,

614
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: and I do not believe that they passed that. But

615
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 1: what did pass, which is more of a you know,

616
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: setting the tone of this conversation, The Federal Trade Commission

617
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: recently passed UM their own kind of mandate UH that

618
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,520
Speaker 1: they want to enforce laws around right to repair, which,

619
00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: in the mind of the Commission, would allow US consumers

620
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: to be able to repair their own electrical devices and

621
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,520
Speaker 1: automotive devices without fear of retribution or warranty voiding right

622
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: from you know, the manufacturers. UM. It's something that's been

623
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,280
Speaker 1: being discussed for quite some time. It was a completely

624
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,800
Speaker 1: unanimous vote, which is interesting. And the FTC actually released

625
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: a report back in May that UM condemned manufacturers that

626
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:05,200
Speaker 1: were trying to restrict consumers ability to repair their own devices. UM.

627
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: And let's see, this was led by the new FTC

628
00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: chair who is a critic of big text, someone named

629
00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 1: Lena Kahn. UM. And it also comes twelve days after

630
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 1: President Biden signed a sweeping executive order meant to promote

631
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: competition in the U. S economy. UM. I'm getting a

632
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:29,160
Speaker 1: lot of this info from a Wired article by Lauren

633
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: GoJ Um from back in July of this year. UH.

634
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: The FTC vocianimously to enforce right to repair. UM. The

635
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: move follows an executive order issued last week by the

636
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,120
Speaker 1: White House urging the agency to secure consumers rights to

637
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,359
Speaker 1: fix their own gadgets. So here's the thing. I think

638
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,760
Speaker 1: we can all agree that this is something that definitely

639
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: hits a nerve with many people who don't like to

640
00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,680
Speaker 1: feel like they're beholden to the manufacturer of this device

641
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: that they have purchased. Um, it's this sense that, oh, well,

642
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 1: now I've basically bought myself a burden that I now

643
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 1: have to be kind of like under the thumb of

644
00:40:07,160 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: this company for the rest of the life of this product.

645
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,400
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the biggest offenders for folks like Apple,

646
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 1: where because of software updates, you know, over time and

647
00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,160
Speaker 1: usually not that much time, it can like kind of

648
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 1: cause your computer, your laptop or whatever to get slower

649
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,760
Speaker 1: and slower and slower. Then I believe you have aten

650
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: MacBook that is really starting to give you trouble, which

651
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: just doesn't seem like that's that long ago to me.

652
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,520
Speaker 1: It seems like a device that you've spent thousand dollars

653
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 1: plus on should have more life than that. No, I know,

654
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,880
Speaker 1: I have a two thousand eight MacBook. I've I've extensively,

655
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:50,400
Speaker 1: I've extensively repaired and replaced aspects of it because in

656
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,600
Speaker 1: the reason I had a two thousand eight and kept

657
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,680
Speaker 1: it is because it's easier to repair than some of

658
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: those later models. The battery you can replace, the battery,

659
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,520
Speaker 1: you can plays the hard drive, you can do some

660
00:41:01,560 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: basic things. I just want to say, I know him.

661
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 1: Some folks might call me extremist in this position, but Noel, Matt,

662
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: everyone listening. If you do not have the right to

663
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:18,319
Speaker 1: repair a thing that you buy, you do not own it.

664
00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: And and just to cut past all the noise that

665
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 1: gets that gets you know, volleyed back and forth on this.

666
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 1: If you do not have the right to repair a

667
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 1: thing you buy, just to emphasize this, underline it, italicize whatever,

668
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:38,720
Speaker 1: then you are how are you not renting it? I agree?

669
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 1: My question to you, Ben is what does that right

670
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: look like? What what is the consequence of you know?

671
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: Currently like? Is it it's not illegal to repair your

672
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 1: own device. It just voids the warranty, which just means

673
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: that the company will no longer repair it for you

674
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: if you screw up? Is that right? Or am I

675
00:41:59,719 --> 00:42:02,640
Speaker 1: miss reading that? No? You you're your spot on your

676
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 1: spot on Also it changes in industry. One of the

677
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:12,400
Speaker 1: potentially most powerful camps for a substantive right to repair

678
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:17,280
Speaker 1: law would be farmers. Like we mentioned in previous episodes

679
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:21,240
Speaker 1: of previous strange news segments because some of these folks

680
00:42:21,239 --> 00:42:25,640
Speaker 1: get locked into service agreements, you know, like avoids the

681
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: warranty if you try to fix the thing you own yourself.

682
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: And then the other camp, of course, would be like

683
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:38,480
Speaker 1: you just mentioned iPhones electronics purveyors because like I've read

684
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,319
Speaker 1: arguments against it that would say something like, well, does

685
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:49,319
Speaker 1: this mean that a company can't For example, let's say

686
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 1: Matt has a smartphone company, Matt, what's the name of

687
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:55,520
Speaker 1: your smartphone company? Extra points if you put your name

688
00:42:55,520 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: in the name cell. There was a weird delay and

689
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 1: reverb thing going on here. I'm not sure what consumed

690
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:10,439
Speaker 1: was doing. That was perfect. Okay, So there's Matt Cell

691
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: with four ums at the beginnings, and so so like no,

692
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 1: by no, you buy a mat Cell and then you say, well,

693
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:22,040
Speaker 1: this is BS because I bought this by OS is

694
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: updated a couple of times, and I know that all

695
00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:28,640
Speaker 1: I need to do instead of spending another, you know,

696
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 1: seven hundred dollars on the newest Matt Cell, all I

697
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,759
Speaker 1: need to do is like replace a battery, replace a

698
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:40,879
Speaker 1: couple of things. And then Matt Cell says right, Matt

699
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: Cell says, heck, no, you can't do it because you

700
00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 1: cannot make these repairs yourself. And then you say, but

701
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 1: it would have been so easy for you to just

702
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,479
Speaker 1: make make it so that I could. You guys are

703
00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: bilking me out of hundreds of dollars. But then they

704
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,840
Speaker 1: could come back and say, well, we didn't use screws.

705
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: We used this industrial clue because it makes the the

706
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,200
Speaker 1: actual phone better. And that's the thing though. The miniaturization

707
00:44:10,239 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: of technology has been a big force in all of this, right,

708
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 1: because like you're trying to pack more features and more

709
00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 1: crap into smaller and smaller packages, because that's sort of

710
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: the way you show that you're moving the technology forward,

711
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 1: is this that, for whatever reason, that's our indicator is

712
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 1: a thinner and smaller profile. And then you've got the

713
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:28,920
Speaker 1: you know, then there's like the weird flexes are like, no,

714
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: we're going with big phones now, um, but it's all

715
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 1: kind of like goes with the wind like fashion to

716
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,160
Speaker 1: a degree. But largely it is about making things smaller

717
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: and faster. So no, no, no, no, I have to

718
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: stop you there. So we are concerned about your safety.

719
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 1: You see, if you open up one of our met

720
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 1: sell five point ohs, you're going to and you attempt

721
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: to replace any of the highly sophisticated electronics within one

722
00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: of our pieces of I P. It's dangerous. It's very

723
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 1: dangerous for you. You know, the phone could do any

724
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: number of things and we wouldn't be able to control

725
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: that because it wasn't us officially, you know, making those changes,

726
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: because we're authorized obviously we sell the parts, we manufacture

727
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: the parts. Uh, it would just be so dangerous for

728
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: you that we can't allow it. And it's not your

729
00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: protections liability? Are you referring to things like thermal runaway

730
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: a k A. Batteries that that burst into flames and

731
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,919
Speaker 1: you know, scald your face off. Now we know Matt

732
00:45:27,960 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: Cell Products has ever scalded anyone. Two. Our nest interview

733
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: is over. No further questions. But here's the thing. Here's

734
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: the thing, Matt Sell. I'm referring to you because you know,

735
00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,840
Speaker 1: corporations are people, So this is the word. Yeah, exactly.

736
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,760
Speaker 1: It's one of the rare opportunities I get to communicate

737
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: with the corporation of Matt Cell directly. Um, isn't it

738
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: also possible, now this is me being Devil's advocate here

739
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: that something could be sufficiently high tech enough or that

740
00:45:56,400 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 1: that you repairing it, uh not only is inefficient, but

741
00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:05,359
Speaker 1: could compromise the I P of that company like like

742
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: like if something or could cause some sort of data

743
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 1: breach that could affect others, you know that that would

744
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 1: almost be tantamount to hacking. It Isn't that an argue

745
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:17,839
Speaker 1: that meant that you Matt Cell might make Man, I

746
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 1: would love to have this conversation with you, honestly, Unfortunately

747
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 1: are her attorneys just they keep telling me I can't

748
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: speak on this publicly. So okay, that's fair. I respect that. Ben.

749
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: Since you're not an extension of of Matt Cell Corporate,

750
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: what do you think about that argument? Is there sand

751
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 1: to it? The idea that maybe something let's say a

752
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: Tesla for example, that does have a battery that you

753
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,440
Speaker 1: know holds a lot of juice, and that if you

754
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:43,400
Speaker 1: went poking around in there and didn't know what you

755
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 1: were doing, you could blow your face off. Um, is

756
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,319
Speaker 1: there an argument to be made that you should, for

757
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: your own safety, UH be required to take it into

758
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:57,160
Speaker 1: an official Tesla repair center? Of course, Yeah, I mean

759
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's it does have sand, It has convenient sand,

760
00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,279
Speaker 1: but it is sand. Nonetheless, like you could say you

761
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: could say, for instance, uh, take the idea of any

762
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: mechanism using free on, right, you need to be trained

763
00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 1: to handle free on. Uh. And this is not confirmation

764
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: nor denial of the rumors that any Matts cell product

765
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: contains free on. But this is this is instead like,

766
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:27,120
Speaker 1: this is a this is a very good point to ask,

767
00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:31,239
Speaker 1: a very good question. The right to repair does not

768
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: necessitate the requirement to be qualified to make those repairs.

769
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 1: People brick their stuff, That's what I'm saying. The right

770
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: to repair it does not equal the right to succeed

771
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,399
Speaker 1: at repairing. You could absolutely make a huge, huge mess

772
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,520
Speaker 1: out of things and then go crying back to the manufacturer,

773
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 1: and then they're like, well, now you've screwed it up

774
00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 1: so much, we can't even help you. Um are they

775
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 1: just kind of protecting themselves from those situations because you know,

776
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 1: can you imagine the shipping and receiving involved in like

777
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: all of the warranty honoring centers to like get things repaired.

778
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,680
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a logistical you know, uh nightmare, And

779
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: and to to limit the number of like you know,

780
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: apps actually brick things because people have gone in there

781
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,479
Speaker 1: and screwed around and now they no longer can really,

782
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:22,520
Speaker 1: you know, reasonably repair it, even just the ability for

783
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: them to notice that and say, oh, well, this is

784
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 1: totally screwed up beyond any any possible repair on our right,

785
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: We're just going to send it back. That in and

786
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:35,480
Speaker 1: of itself is a cost. There's a cost associated with that.

787
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 1: So if by avoiding the warranty you are no longer

788
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 1: feel compelled or or um you know, in a situation

789
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: where you feel like you are entitled to send it back,

790
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:49,080
Speaker 1: aren't they just limiting their exposure to people screwing up

791
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:50,840
Speaker 1: their stuff and then sending it to them and then

792
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: then realizing, oh my god, this is totally screwed More importantly, yeah,

793
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 1: like I was seeing earlier. Liability more importantly, the argument

794
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:03,000
Speaker 1: is that a company would not be liable for somebody

795
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,319
Speaker 1: like just recently, I don't know how many people know this,

796
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: but just recently, leaded gas let a gasoline finally went

797
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 1: by by UH And now the only way to keep um,

798
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 1: to keep vehicles that need let it gas in business

799
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: and working is to buy lead additive right for fuel.

800
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 1: But what if, like we should a company be liable

801
00:49:28,560 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: for exposure to lead, which we know does tremendously damaging

802
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: things the kids to any human being. Really. Uh, the

803
00:49:37,040 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 1: liability argument is solid. But again, you know, maybe it's

804
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 1: maybe it's me being anti authoritarian. Um. I think it's

805
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: something that it feels like a very easy thing to

806
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 1: agree to. If you buy something, you should own it,

807
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,960
Speaker 1: unless it's openly advertised as a rental or a thing

808
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,640
Speaker 1: you just sort of have. Like it hits a an

809
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: apex an inflection point. What's what's the word you guys

810
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:09,439
Speaker 1: have been using a delta when when electronics became part

811
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: of it. Now you're absolutely right, you guys, I know

812
00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:15,600
Speaker 1: we're running up on time. We need to seriously go

813
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: down a Rossman rabbit hole collectively, because there are specific

814
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,759
Speaker 1: videos that he's covered on this a couple of the

815
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: very specific things we've hit here in that video. I

816
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:30,800
Speaker 1: think it's called Lewis Rossman Right to Repair testimony in Washington,

817
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: SP He gives an example of auto Zone as a company,

818
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,600
Speaker 1: a company that specifically sells parts four vehicles meant to

819
00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: be used either for an individual to repair their vehicle

820
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,759
Speaker 1: or to you know, take to a repair shop to

821
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,640
Speaker 1: then have that specific part so they can repair it.

822
00:50:52,000 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: And there's an ad that that was on back in

823
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,160
Speaker 1: the day with auto zone, where there's a mom and

824
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: daughter pair that jack up the car and install a

825
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 1: brand new brake system on their vehicle. And what he's

826
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,839
Speaker 1: comparing is the danger that that repair represents both for

827
00:51:10,280 --> 00:51:12,719
Speaker 1: the mother and daughter who are going to eventually drive

828
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,400
Speaker 1: that very heavy vehicle with a brand new brake system

829
00:51:15,440 --> 00:51:18,799
Speaker 1: that they just installed. Uh, to a cell phone being

830
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: repaired or a laptop being repaired, and what what's the

831
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 1: difference in danger represented to the people around them as

832
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:30,160
Speaker 1: well as them individually. That's absolutely apt. I think that's

833
00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: really really smart. And there's an article I promised some

834
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,320
Speaker 1: zen in this story and too to get I know

835
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: we're running up on time, but to get to it

836
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:40,880
Speaker 1: that part. Um, there's a really cool editorial piece called

837
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 1: what the right to repair a movement gets wrong? Repair

838
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 1: should be an option, not a mandate by G. Pascal

839
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: Zachary And this is on the I E e E

840
00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: Spectrum website. And the i E is the Institute of

841
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,799
Speaker 1: Electrical and Electronics Engineers UM, which is like a like

842
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,759
Speaker 1: a trade organization I believe for like you know, electrical

843
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:08,839
Speaker 1: engineers and uh, G Pascal uh makes a really neat comparison,

844
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,719
Speaker 1: and it's very similar to what you're talking about. What

845
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:13,279
Speaker 1: kind of um. You guys remember the book Zen and

846
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:17,839
Speaker 1: the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. I never read it, um,

847
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:19,399
Speaker 1: but I've I've been aware of it, and it's something

848
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:20,840
Speaker 1: I definitely after reading this, I want to read. I

849
00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:22,759
Speaker 1: just want to quote a couple of passages from this

850
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 1: op ed rather than just try to you know, some

851
00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: this guy's words up, because he really says it beautifully. Uh.

852
00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy four, a repair enthusiast named Robert Person

853
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 1: published a book that proved highly influential and sold millions

854
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,399
Speaker 1: of copies. Zen in the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance came

855
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:38,880
Speaker 1: to define a spiritual and mental outlook by contrasting the

856
00:52:38,920 --> 00:52:42,080
Speaker 1: approaches of two bike owners. One rides an expensive, new

857
00:52:42,120 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 1: bike and relies on professionals to repair. The other rides

858
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:47,359
Speaker 1: an older bike and he repairs on his own, and

859
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: by doing so, hones his problem solving abilities and unexpectedly

860
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:54,560
Speaker 1: connects to a deeper wisdom that enhances his sense of

861
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 1: dignity and endows his life with greater meaning. Um. That's awesome,

862
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:01,280
Speaker 1: innute of itself. And then he goes on the shift

863
00:53:01,320 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: and attitudes a half century ago is dramatic, reflecting the

864
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 1: profound expansion of the human built world. Once humans sought

865
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 1: to connect with nature, now they wish to do the

866
00:53:10,520 --> 00:53:13,560
Speaker 1: same or more with their machines. In many ways, the

867
00:53:13,600 --> 00:53:18,080
Speaker 1: repair movement is a revival of this venerable counterculture tradition.

868
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,399
Speaker 1: But then he goes on to talk about how this

869
00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:22,440
Speaker 1: is sort of a thing of the past in many ways.

870
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,640
Speaker 1: Like I mean, you know, with all of the new cars,

871
00:53:24,680 --> 00:53:27,160
Speaker 1: like the Tesla's of the world, and even just you know,

872
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 1: cars that are ten years old or more, they have

873
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:34,879
Speaker 1: such advanced electronic systems that it would be very very

874
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: difficult for you or I to diagnose outside of being

875
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,920
Speaker 1: like an electrical engineer and being able to like write

876
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: code or or interpret code and use one of those

877
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: computers that you attached to that port you know that

878
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:48,839
Speaker 1: you can read the codes, but even to like do

879
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 1: any kind of you know, if there's a glitch in

880
00:53:51,480 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 1: the electronic system, short of having a system where you

881
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 1: can actually diagnose that and then fix it, that is

882
00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:00,640
Speaker 1: very much outside of the realm of most d wires

883
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 1: um you know, as would be something that would be

884
00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:06,440
Speaker 1: in a very high end car like a tesla. Um,

885
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,920
Speaker 1: so he argues that in some ways, Um, I'm just

886
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 1: gonna do the way he says it. Uh. Here here's

887
00:54:12,480 --> 00:54:14,720
Speaker 1: a live example. Among my chief reasons for my loyalty

888
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 1: to the iPhone is that Apple supplies updated software that

889
00:54:17,920 --> 00:54:21,600
Speaker 1: protects me against viruses and security hacks. Apple even installs

890
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,280
Speaker 1: the software and my phone sometimes without my conscious assent

891
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: or awareness. If I had to assent explicitly to each

892
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 1: iPhone software update, I would invariably fail to have the

893
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 1: latest protection and then suffer the negative consequences. So I

894
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,719
Speaker 1: don't want to be responsible for repairing or maintaining a

895
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: phone that is inherently collective in nature. I am freer

896
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: and happier when Apple does it. So it is kind

897
00:54:44,120 --> 00:54:47,280
Speaker 1: of a philosophical argument here. So I like the idea

898
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: of like not being a mandate but it being a choice,

899
00:54:50,239 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: and then you also taking on the responsibility of what

900
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:56,760
Speaker 1: that means, and if that means avoiding the warranty, maybe

901
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,239
Speaker 1: so be it. Man. I'm interested in hearing your defensive

902
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:01,520
Speaker 1: of that is. I think you know, when you're dealing

903
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:04,320
Speaker 1: with obviously something like a phone, maybe the stakes are lower.

904
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,480
Speaker 1: But if it's a piece of farm equipment and you

905
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:09,320
Speaker 1: need it fixed quickly, and you do a very simple repair,

906
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,680
Speaker 1: and by doing the simple repair, you're avoiding the warranty

907
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: that to me is wrong. Uh Is that is that

908
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 1: you're thinking? So I'm not gonna defend that specific aspect

909
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: because we've opened the door for philosophy, which case, let's

910
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:29,040
Speaker 1: go macroscopic here. The culture many countries has fundamentally shifted

911
00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:35,360
Speaker 1: from an ownership economy to a service or rental economy.

912
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: Are you comfortable living in a world where you don't

913
00:55:38,120 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 1: really own the things you pay for? Do you want

914
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,000
Speaker 1: to live in a world where everything you quote unquote

915
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,959
Speaker 1: by is really just a service that you have subscribed to.

916
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,520
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to poison the well or ask looted questions.

917
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: These are very important questions and they matter. They matter

918
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: to you now, they will matter more in upcoming years

919
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: unless a global catastrope he lays waste of civilization. But

920
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: they're gonna matter even more than that to the people

921
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: who come after us. And I get that. It can

922
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:12,120
Speaker 1: be old school, and I readily admit, you know I've

923
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: said it before, Like I readily admit there are things

924
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 1: just like free on where you would, you would want

925
00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: someone with expertise to to handle those kinds of rights

926
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: to repair, you know, like when if you want to

927
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: go even bigger, when some governments by military hardware, very

928
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: very dangerous weapons of war, they have contracted out a

929
00:56:35,360 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 1: specific company to take care of that, you know what

930
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:42,200
Speaker 1: I mean. The general who is signing off on world

931
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:46,160
Speaker 1: ending nukes is not is not under the impression that

932
00:56:46,560 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: they can just show up at the silo and be like, well,

933
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:52,839
Speaker 1: I'm gonna fix these fins, you know what I mean.

934
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,319
Speaker 1: I got I got a welding machine, and I got

935
00:56:55,360 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 1: a lot of heart. Um. So I guess it's weird

936
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:01,080
Speaker 1: because I don't know what the answer is and I

937
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,279
Speaker 1: don't think there's a simple broad answer, like to you

938
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,560
Speaker 1: guys points it has to go case by case or

939
00:57:07,680 --> 00:57:12,320
Speaker 1: industry by industry. It's just that if people are not

940
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:17,919
Speaker 1: aware of this long long tail trend, then you could

941
00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 1: easily wake up in a world where you don't own

942
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: the things you buy, even if you can repair them.

943
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: And I think you make a great point, or I

944
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: think the author of that article makes a great point

945
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,439
Speaker 1: as well, like do people have the time to fix

946
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:37,320
Speaker 1: these things themselves? Do they have the time to learn, uh,

947
00:57:37,520 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: the ins and outs of the very specific blueprint of

948
00:57:42,360 --> 00:57:45,880
Speaker 1: a compact miniaturized device. Do they have the time to

949
00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:50,160
Speaker 1: learn code and use it appropriately? I think a lot

950
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:52,800
Speaker 1: of people don't, to your point. But then also, you know,

951
00:57:52,880 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: I think the answer that some more libertarian minded people

952
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:01,440
Speaker 1: would propose is also too broad a brush, you know,

953
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: like the idea, I'm sure there are a lot of

954
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 1: people listening who have thought this while we were talking

955
00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: about this, The idea that if you don't like not

956
00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:12,960
Speaker 1: having a right to repair, you should just not buy

957
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: that thing. That doesn't really hold water. The free market

958
00:58:16,600 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: quote unquote can't really answer this question because, like you said, Noel,

959
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: this applies differently different things. Farm machinery is not an iPhone. Yeah,

960
00:58:28,120 --> 00:58:31,240
Speaker 1: it's a weird philosophical area to enter into, because you think,

961
00:58:31,320 --> 00:58:34,479
Speaker 1: how many of us listening right now own the room

962
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,600
Speaker 1: in which we are sitting right how many of us

963
00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: are in a lease agreement with that, with our living situation,

964
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: how many of us are in a lease agreement with

965
00:58:43,480 --> 00:58:46,800
Speaker 1: our vehicles that we don't actually own it. And it's

966
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: weird that we are okay with that relationship with some

967
00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:52,760
Speaker 1: of the most vital things in our lives, but we're

968
00:58:52,840 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: not okay with it in other places. I I just

969
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:57,640
Speaker 1: we're talking about the long tail thing, Ben, I think

970
00:58:57,680 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 1: I think this is a really cool place to share

971
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: ideas and philosophies. Uh yeah, we need to do a big,

972
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: big episode on this and the serial Killers creed um

973
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: well as some to keep an eye on, like as

974
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: to whether this picks up steam in the States. But

975
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:16,880
Speaker 1: but again, my my question to leave listeners with maybe

976
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,120
Speaker 1: or let us know what you think and you you

977
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:22,280
Speaker 1: guys as well, man, Ben, is how do we not

978
00:59:22,600 --> 00:59:25,000
Speaker 1: have the right to like, what is the consequence? I

979
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:27,520
Speaker 1: keep asking that, and it is literally just like if

980
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: you poke around in there and the manufacturer can tell

981
00:59:30,960 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 1: because you've broken some seal, then they no longer will

982
00:59:34,360 --> 00:59:36,919
Speaker 1: repair it for you. Uh yeah, it's a good question.

983
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,120
Speaker 1: I think it goes a little deeper than that, though,

984
00:59:39,200 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: because what if you what if you have a perfectly

985
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 1: functioning machine or a thing and you haven't paid a

986
00:59:47,040 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: service fee, which is just a sum of money paid

987
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,840
Speaker 1: to prevent your thing from being bricked, Like that's you're

988
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 1: paying protection money at that point, because it can be

989
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: purposely shut off no matter whether or not it actually works.

990
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:03,760
Speaker 1: So that's the higher end stuff that would have like

991
01:00:03,840 --> 01:00:06,440
Speaker 1: a built in service plan that you would have to

992
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 1: pay for monthly or whatever. Right, and then of course

993
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: caveat emtor, you know, let the buyer beware. But I I, um, yeah,

994
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 1: I'm very interested to hear what you think. Thank you

995
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:21,560
Speaker 1: Dallas girls so much for for bringing this up, because

996
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 1: it's something I think it's fair to say that we all,

997
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:28,560
Speaker 1: Mattel doctor and I and hopefully you, we all, we

998
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:32,440
Speaker 1: all believe this should be more front and center in

999
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 1: the world. I just hate the idea of someone someone

1000
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:41,600
Speaker 1: continually being at the mercy of like hooked on a

1001
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:44,520
Speaker 1: service plan, you know what I mean. Like it's it's

1002
01:00:44,600 --> 01:00:47,680
Speaker 1: not it's not a good look. Sometimes maybe it's a

1003
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: necessary evil, and then sometimes it is maybe to the

1004
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:56,720
Speaker 1: advantage of everyone involved, but not always very much, not always.

1005
01:00:56,880 --> 01:00:59,840
Speaker 1: That's that's what I'm on board with here. What is

1006
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: health insurance besides a service plan for a human? Yeah,

1007
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,600
Speaker 1: and we're required by law to well, no, we're not.

1008
01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: We're required by a law to have our cars insured.

1009
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 1: But well, I mean, I don't know, there's certain requirements

1010
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:14,600
Speaker 1: around carrying health insurance and the for the whole like

1011
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: exchange and the you know, Obamacare and all of that. Um.

1012
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:23,560
Speaker 1: It's an interesting it's interesting conversation because it ultimately like

1013
01:01:23,920 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 1: you are burdening others by not carrying you know what

1014
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,400
Speaker 1: I mean? Like it it can, it changes the calculation, um.

1015
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: But but also like it's a revenue stream for some

1016
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 1: of these companies, and one could argue that in certain

1017
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,920
Speaker 1: situations it's maybe a little bit of a crooked revenue stream,

1018
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: a bit of a griffin. Yeah. Can I give a

1019
01:01:45,080 --> 01:01:48,640
Speaker 1: quick shout out to Rossman really fast? Yeah? Lewis uh

1020
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:51,920
Speaker 1: A long time ago. You told me, and however many

1021
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: other people watched the video when it came out while

1022
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: you sat on a chair in your I guess it

1023
01:01:57,280 --> 01:01:59,200
Speaker 1: was in your repair area at the time. You had

1024
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,040
Speaker 1: some greens use, and you told me and everybody else

1025
01:02:02,120 --> 01:02:04,680
Speaker 1: to follow our hearts when it comes to major decisions

1026
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 1: in our lives. And I just want to say, hey,

1027
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: I listened, even though you weren't. You weren't like the

1028
01:02:09,360 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: advice guy I was going to, but you're very sincere

1029
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: about it. So thanks dude, and thanks for thanks for

1030
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: helping me a little bit with what is called a

1031
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 1: vintage MacBook pros as I learned recently. Thanks also, of

1032
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,800
Speaker 1: course the Dallas Girl, thanks to Fox, and thanks to

1033
01:02:27,080 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: Panda for writing in. We hope that you enjoyed these

1034
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,720
Speaker 1: stories and these questions from your fellow listens as much

1035
01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: as we do every single week, and more importantly, we

1036
01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: hope you participate. Right to us, call us, let us

1037
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:43,840
Speaker 1: know what's on your mind. We try to be easy

1038
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,680
Speaker 1: to find online. Can find us on Facebook, You can

1039
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:49,240
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter. You can find us on YouTube

1040
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: at Conspiracy Stuff. You can find us at Conspiracy Stuff

1041
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: Show on Instagram. Yes, we also have a phone number. Everybody,

1042
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:00,080
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you can dial one eight three E

1043
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,919
Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. You will hear Ben,

1044
01:03:04,560 --> 01:03:08,000
Speaker 1: you will hear a familiar song. Perhaps, then you've got

1045
01:03:08,160 --> 01:03:11,000
Speaker 1: three minutes. Tell us whatever you want. Give yourself a

1046
01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 1: cool nickname. We prefer that actually over your real name.

1047
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:20,120
Speaker 1: It's just safer for everybody that way. Uh, a code name,

1048
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: DOC something anything, just not holiday, not doc holiday and

1049
01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: not mission control please and astronaut with a secret comment. Okay,

1050
01:03:30,200 --> 01:03:32,320
Speaker 1: don't do those. Say whatever you want. You do have

1051
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: three minutes, and if you need to go over that

1052
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,560
Speaker 1: you need more time, please instead send us a good

1053
01:03:36,600 --> 01:03:39,160
Speaker 1: old fashioned email. You can put anything you want in there.

1054
01:03:39,360 --> 01:04:01,400
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they

1055
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:04,160
Speaker 1: don't want you to know. Is a production of iHeartRadio.

1056
01:04:04,480 --> 01:04:07,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1057
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:10,560
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.