WEBVTT - Everyone Else is Crazy and I'm Sane 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:08.680 School of Humans. Sanctum Unmasked is about a sex club 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:12.360 and describes various sex acts. Please use discretion where and 0:00:12.400 --> 0:00:24.760 when you listen. Damon Lonner is sitting by his pool, 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:30.200 sipping a cocktail and thinking there's a handful of young 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:35.040 women swimming naked, playfully splashing each other. A busty brunette 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:40.120 jumps performatively on the giant trampoline in the yard. Damon's 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.800 trying his best not to get too distracted, though, because 0:00:43.880 --> 0:00:46.880 he has a lot of work to do. Later this week, 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:49.879 he will be hosting a special event for a man 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.720 who paid him fifty thousand dollars to curate a custom 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:58.920 sexual experience. So he's busy brainstorming, and with another sip 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:03.760 of his drink, he comes up with this. The scene 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.000 would begin with the man blindfolded and tied to a 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:12.280 wooden beam in Damon's mansion. Then three naked nymphs with 0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:17.160 antlers would remove his blindfold and release a kaleidoscope of 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:22.520 live butterflies into the room. Think florist fantasy vibes. The 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:27.040 nymphs untie the man and then taking turns hand feed 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:33.000 him lobster chocolate and vintage dom Perignon, then they have 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:37.520 their way with him. Damon thought this was a pretty 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:39.840 good idea, but he wanted to try it out for 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:45.000 himself first, you know, for professional reasons. So he calls 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:47.319 up three of his performers from the club and ask 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.400 them if they want to come over to swim, hang 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:54.120 out and you know, rehearse. Sure enough, the girls show 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:56.640 up and the four of them spend the afternoon doing 0:01:56.760 --> 0:02:01.640 research and development in the form of an orgy. At 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.160 one point, Damon stacks the women on top of each 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.720 other so he can fuck them from behind, one after another, 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.000 like going down a fuck ladder, until finally he feels 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:17.880 satisfied that, Yep, he was right. This is a great idea. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:22.640 This is a pretty normal day in Damon's life. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.040 I had so many girls at my house all the time. 0:02:26.440 --> 0:02:28.840 It was like a playboy mansion kind of a setup. 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.240 At that time, the idea of monogamy was insanity. I 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.760 had just gotten out of a twenty year monogamous religious like, 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:37.560 I'm not going to get attached to anybody. I mean, 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:40.240 at my parties, I would have sex with three. 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:41.560 Or four or five different people. 0:02:41.800 --> 0:02:43.000 I was on fucking fire. 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:47.720 It's twenty sixteen, Damon's now living by himself in the 0:02:47.760 --> 0:02:51.959 newly dubbed Sanctum Mansion. He's a bachelor now and he's 0:02:52.040 --> 0:02:52.600 leaning in. 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:55.799 I mean, my doorbell would ring, and you know, some 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.799 girl that I met at a party would come over 0:02:57.840 --> 0:02:59.280 with three of her girlfriends. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:00.400 You know, can we go swimming? 0:03:00.960 --> 0:03:02.560 You know, can we jump on the champoline in? And 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:04.520 I was like, yeah, come on in, you know, and 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.120 like I mean, it was just wildness. 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.160 He was now fully embarking on a journey of sexual 0:03:11.200 --> 0:03:13.880 self discovery, and it was something he felt like he 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:17.560 had to do alone, or as alone as you can 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:21.120 be if you're almost always literally inside someone else. But 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:32.280 you get the idea. Welcome to Sanctum Unmasked. I'm your host, 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:41.720 Carl Schortino. Breakups are rough, even when it's the right decision. 0:03:42.200 --> 0:03:47.000 They're sad, lonely, destabilizing. They forced you to question everything 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.760 you did wrong or could have done better. But something 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:52.120 I feel like we don't hold enough space for is 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.480 just how embarrassing breakups can be. Like, never have I 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:59.200 ever acted more like a psycho than while going through 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:02.520 a breakup. You're like crying at the deli counter. You 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:04.880 fuck some idiot, from the subway under the guys that 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:10.160 it's empowering you cut bangs. When we left you last episode, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.880 Damon and Melissa were going through a breakup of their own, 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:17.120 and they were each experiencing their own very different versions 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:17.719 of coping. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:22.400 Remember I got to the Sanctum Mansion and I pulled 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:25.680 Melissa aside for a talk. I had come to the 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:30.880 conclusion that I wasn't monogamous. It was like a revelation 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.560 for me at the time. It was like, there's nothing 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:36.880 wrong with me. I'm not a bad person. I don't 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:38.680 want to have sex with only one person for the 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:43.320 rest of my life. I'm now declaring my non monogamous status, 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:49.200 and I'm going to enjoy myself and not feel guilty 0:04:49.320 --> 0:04:52.440 all the time because of these desires. 0:04:53.120 --> 0:04:55.960 Before the split, Damon and Melissa had been together for 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.080 twenty years. She felt like she knew him pretty well, 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.120 but even she was surprised by his rebrand. 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:08.400 He was discovering himself as a hedonist, and he actually 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.520 said that to me. He's like, I'm you know, I 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:14.159 don't want to pretend to be some outstanding guy anymore. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.200 When Damon moved out, Melissa and their two young daughters 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.880 continued living together in the family's apartment, and the separation 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:23.960 was hitting her understandably hard. 0:05:24.800 --> 0:05:27.239 I was crying in the fetal position on my bathroom 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:32.200 floor every day, pulling it together, driving my kids to school. 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.200 The second they would get out of the car and 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.280 run into school, I'd be a bawling mess. If a 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.200 song came on the radio that was sad a fuck 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:46.240 adele Hello, that CD that came out nineteen was like 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:51.880 around that time, and I would just be a fucking bawling, crying, 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:53.960 blubbering mess. 0:05:54.920 --> 0:05:57.200 Meanwhile, at the Sancta Mansion. 0:05:57.320 --> 0:05:59.360 I mean, I was like, you know, high on Molly 0:05:59.440 --> 0:06:03.640 and kocaine. This porn star that's like just fucking world 0:06:03.680 --> 0:06:06.960 famous for her blowjobs makes her way in with me 0:06:07.080 --> 0:06:09.760 to this room and we're by ourselves, and she just 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.960 says like, I want to suck your cock like it's 0:06:12.040 --> 0:06:14.599 never been sucked in your life. And I'm like, and 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:16.520 I'm in the perfect state of mind to do it, 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:21.920 so I just like relax into this experience. And forty 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.839 five an hourly, I don't I don't know how long 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:25.880 this went on. I mean, my eyes were rolling back 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:28.279 into my head, like I'm on another planet for a while, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.360 and uh wow, I mean that was that was quite 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.080 an orgasm. 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:38.120 Until now, Damon felt like he'd been living in the closet, 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.359 hiding his true horny self, feeling shame about his kinky, 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:46.200 promiscuous desires. But he didn't want to hide anymore. He 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.039 was running a famous sex club for fock's sake, and 0:06:49.080 --> 0:06:50.640 he was just embracing the character. 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:51.360 Right. 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.279 Did I mention that he converted his wine cellar into 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:55.320 a BDSM dungeon? 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:57.159 Just trying to paint a picture here. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:00.760 Anyways, the Same to mansion was proving to be the 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.039 perfect accommodation for Damon's shifting lifestyle in some ways that 0:07:05.080 --> 0:07:06.839 were pretty surprising. 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:10.960 Interestingly enough, I would share that space with my two 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:15.200 young children on every other weekend, So the sanct dimension 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.200 became this like playground for grown ups when I did Sanctum, 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.040 and this unbelievable playground for kids when I wasn't doing Sanctum. 0:07:25.440 --> 0:07:29.800 I would have sleepovers with you know, I mean ten 0:07:30.000 --> 0:07:32.920 twelve kids, and I'd set up all of these like 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:35.680 blow up mattresses, and I had this huge while where 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:38.760 I'd project movies for them, and I had you know, 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.360 my staff that was doing my parties. I'd invite them in, 0:07:41.400 --> 0:07:43.680 they would cook, they would make popcorn. There would be like, 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:45.960 you know, everything these kids could want, and then in 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:48.920 the backyard there was a big pool and a trampoline 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.760 and they would go fucking crazy. 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:56.680 Sure he was a sex fiend, but most importantly, he 0:07:56.760 --> 0:07:58.960 was a dad, and he felt like these two parts 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:00.760 of himself could exist in harmony. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:03.320 And the parents started to kind of know about what 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.920 I was doing, you know, And I know that some 0:08:05.960 --> 0:08:08.760 of the parents were probably freaked out, but most of 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.720 the parents were like, You're the most amazing dad, Like 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:13.960 how the fuck do you handle all these you know? 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:15.800 And I just loved it. 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:20.040 Melissa was less enthusiastic about this. She was in the 0:08:20.040 --> 0:08:22.720 midst of a rebrand of her own. She'd become a 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.360 personal trainer, and she'd recently gotten sober. Damon, on the 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.400 other hand, was basically partying for a living, and no 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.000 matter how much she wanted to distance herself from him, 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:34.680 there wasn't really much she could do about it. He 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.800 was the father of her kids and also clearly not 0:08:37.880 --> 0:08:39.560 the most discreet person in the world. 0:08:40.200 --> 0:08:43.000 We were growing in such different directions, and it was 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:46.760 into health wellness, fitness, and he was further and further 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:52.040 into his role as the next Hugh Hefner. And so 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:54.599 for me, I don't want to say it was about image, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.360 but I'm gonna fucking say it. It was about image, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:00.160 and I just didn't want that image. 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.559 If you remember, part of the reason they broke up 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.800 was because Damon wanted to experiment sexually outside of their 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:07.480 marriage and Melissa didn't. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:09.360 Their priorities were shifting. 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:11.480 But it's not like he didn't want to be with 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:14.040 her or that he wasn't still attracted to her. It 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.439 was just at the club, he was seeing all these 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:20.200 examples of how an open relationship could potentially work, and 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:22.280 he thought maybe he and Melissa could try that. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:25.079 They started to watch all of these couples and they 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:27.600 sure looked happy, they really did, and you know, and 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:30.360 they were free and they were like fucking other people 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:32.200 and they had a commitment to each other. And I 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.560 was like, wow, that's that's a really interesting way of 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:37.640 doing things, and I wanted to try that. 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.559 What Damon was essentially asking for is what the kids 0:09:41.559 --> 0:09:46.840 these days are calling ethical non monogamy. So sleeping with 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.880 people who aren't your partner has become very fashionable in 0:09:49.920 --> 0:09:53.760 recent years. Realistically, this has been happening since the dawn 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.559 of time. It's just that people used to call it cheating, 0:09:57.320 --> 0:09:59.800 with some exceptions like hippies and swingers who called it 0:10:00.120 --> 0:10:05.360 free love. But today, younger generations, full of open minded, 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.120 sex positive and gender fluid cool kids, have started a 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:13.960 larger cultural conversation about how incorporating some space and novelty 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:18.000 into your romantic relationships can actually be healthy and potentially 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.120 keep things exciting and sexy for longer. You want to 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.200 sleep with my bff, cool with me. Let's just share 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.160 a Google cal to make sure our schedule is align. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.440 You've probably been privy to at least some of this. 0:10:30.280 --> 0:10:32.839 The famous sex writer and podcast or Dan Savage has 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:36.720 aggressively brought the phrase monogamish into our lives. As he 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.400 puts it, opening the door of your relationship just a 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:41.760 crack keeps it from blowing off its hinges. 0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:43.320 I don't think I've been. 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.680 To an it girl apartment in years without seeing the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:49.240 book The Ethical Slut on the Shelf aka The Quintessential 0:10:49.240 --> 0:10:52.320 Guide to Nominogamy. Also, I'm not sure if it's just me, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.160 but it seems like roughly ninety percent of TV characters 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.440 are in open relationships. I'm exaggerating, but you know what 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.720 I mean. Now, I get it. Non monogamy does seem 0:11:02.760 --> 0:11:06.480 like a potentially more progressive, more realistic approach to long 0:11:06.559 --> 0:11:09.920 term relationships. But just because something's trendy doesn't mean that 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:13.280 it's easy, and just because something seems evolved doesn't mean 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:15.800 that it will drive you to the brink of mental collapse. 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:19.480 At Sanctum, Daemon had a front row seat to this 0:11:19.559 --> 0:11:21.160 sort of personal exploration. 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.480 I mean, I had many people tell me that Sanctums 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.560 saved their marriage by opening things up and staying together. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:32.000 They were able to, you know, work through whatever it 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:35.840 was that was keeping them from kind of being horny 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.760 for each other, and that Sanctum was this playground for 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.360 them where they met other people. They were able to 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:43.480 have these discussions, they were able to explore. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:46.120 But for all the people who said the club enlivened 0:11:46.200 --> 0:11:49.480 their relationship, Damon also saw some train wrecks. 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.920 Specifically, I remember a couple that was non monogamous, but 0:11:54.200 --> 0:11:56.280 the man snuck off and had sex with someone in 0:11:56.320 --> 0:11:58.760 a bathroom and she found out about it, and she 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:01.040 was like, what the fuck are you doing, you know, 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.839 like we're here together, like we're being honest with each other, 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.600 and you sneak off and hide it from me. That 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.360 makes me feel like I can't trust you at all, 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.760 and that obviously fucked up their relationship. So, I mean, 0:12:13.760 --> 0:12:18.360 this exploration is scary. It takes bravery, It takes a 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:20.480 little bit of craziness, you know, like you have to 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.960 be willing to like walk through some feelings that could 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:24.560 be really. 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:26.800 Hard for a lot of people. 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.320 Going to a sex party is pretty intimidating, even for 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.360 non monogamous couples. It feels like something you maybe work 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.520 up to. But actually these parties can sometimes be a 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:41.720 good first step for couples who are looking to explore openness. 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.440 This is according to sex researcher doctor Jana Frangalova. She's 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:50.160 the Human Sexuality Professor at NYU and she also specializes 0:12:50.200 --> 0:12:52.319 in coaching couples into nominogamy. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:58.000 Sex parties are such a fun little way to introduce 0:12:58.080 --> 0:13:01.000 some form of non monogamy. There are actually quite a 0:13:01.080 --> 0:13:05.800 few circumstances that I would recommend a sex party for, 0:13:06.640 --> 0:13:10.559 and it starts with people who don't actually want to 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:15.920 be non monogamous. But who just want some level of spark, 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:21.920 something that is sexual and can arouse some of that 0:13:22.480 --> 0:13:26.720 sense of novelty that often gets lost in relationships. 0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.800 Perhaps pause this to search Yelp for the highest rate 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.359 of sex parties in your neighborhood. 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.120 When couples want to explore, there's a lot of fear 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:39.120 around what is introducing a third or a fourth person 0:13:39.200 --> 0:13:43.160 going to do to our relationship? Is that gonna ruin 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.800 what we have in some way? Is it gonna lead 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.760 to a lot of jealousy and conflict and all of that. 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:54.600 So in those cases, I often recommend people to go 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.280 and check out a sex party where they don't actually 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:03.080 play with anybody else where, they just go observe, watch 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.080 other people play, maybe get naked themselves, maybe play with 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.760 each other. So there is that voyeuristic component that can 0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:14.640 be very arousing and fun. There can be that exhibitionist 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:18.920 component and still done in a way that doesn't actually 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:21.680 invite that third into the relationship. 0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:25.320 So you remember Claudia who worked as an atmosphere model 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:30.080 at Sanctum, Well, she experienced exactly this. She met her 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.320 husband back when she was working with the parties, and 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.600 she invited him to come along to Sanctum within the 0:14:34.640 --> 0:14:36.120 first couple months of dating. 0:14:37.080 --> 0:14:40.080 The first party I took my husband to, there were 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.160 these girls totally naked, and they had these lamp shades 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:46.720 on their heads, and the lights were on in the 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:50.480 lamp and one girl was holding like a jar full 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.520 of pins, like little like lapals and one set of 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:57.040 voyeur and another girl was holding a different thing and 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.440 said participant. And there are a lot of people that 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.720 just and I think they got excited and they took 0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:06.560 that energy home with them. 0:15:06.720 --> 0:15:10.200 Claudia described her husband as a quote good Midwestern boy, 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.960 so all this naked lamp woman, mansion orgy stuff was 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.640 very new to him. Obviously, Claudia worked at Sanctums, so 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:20.440 it was familiar to her, but she had never been 0:15:20.480 --> 0:15:23.160 to a sex party as a couple, and she realized 0:15:23.160 --> 0:15:25.080 that it was a totally different experience. 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.080 He was like, I've never even had a threesome before, like, 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.280 let alone this kind of party. But it just made 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.520 us open minded. So I think for us, like the 0:15:34.520 --> 0:15:37.680 first couple of parties were like, huh, this is hot. 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:41.880 Together, they realized that Sanctum's sparked conversations that they wouldn't 0:15:41.880 --> 0:15:42.760 have had otherwise. 0:15:43.200 --> 0:15:43.800 And that was. 0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:46.120 Really exciting and made them feel connected. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:49.520 You know, your partner is like, Okay, well we saw 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:51.840 this person getting whipped. Is that something you're into? And 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:54.720 what if You're like hell yeah, you know, and like 0:15:54.880 --> 0:15:57.240 that opens up a line of communication for you and 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:59.440 your partner that you've never had before, and that leads 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.720 to other life of communication and it just keeps growing 0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:06.440 from there. There's nothing we can't talk about now regarding sex. 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:09.280 There's nothing that's tabooed, and I feel like that's where 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:12.280 a lot of relationships fail is there's desires that are 0:16:12.320 --> 0:16:16.320 never discussed until they go explore these desires with either 0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:18.560 somebody else or behind their partners back. 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:22.640 She's right, the stuff you feel comfortable talking about even 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:25.800 with strangers when someone in the background is being fucked 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.600 over a railing. It's definitely a step up from your 0:16:28.680 --> 0:16:30.160 casual dinner party combo. 0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:34.360 It completely shapes your relationship. I mean, how do you 0:16:34.480 --> 0:16:37.400 go to something so open minded and then go home 0:16:37.440 --> 0:16:40.080 and just like turn that off. I don't think that's possible. 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.920 I walked into it thinking it was going to be 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.720 a job, and I had no idea it would literally 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.240 flip my entire life upside down in a positive way. 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.880 Basically, some people went to Signing Tom because they were 0:16:52.880 --> 0:16:56.720 horny little goblins. For others, it was offering an avenue 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.520 for exploration within their marriage, and apparently that's where thousands 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:03.600 of dollars a ticket. But as we'll see after the break, 0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:07.000 it's not always a walk in the park for everyone. 0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:20.159 Non monogamy comes with many challenges. For one, there's a 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:23.720 real stigma around it. Sure it's having a hipster rebrand, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.240 but in most polite company, if you tell someone you're 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.200 in an open relationship, they look at you like garislut 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:33.280 or an idiot, or some combination of the two to 0:17:33.359 --> 0:17:36.680 be perhaps too frank. There's also an issue I've found 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.080 with no monogamy where some of the people in the 0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.880 lifestyle can be kind of well, annoying. 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.840 I did it in a way that was like kind 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.560 of righteous, you know, like this is who I am. 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:53.280 You just need to understand that, you know, the way 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:55.919 society has set things up is just all wrong, and 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.199 marriage is all wrong and monogamy is all wrong. There 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.720 was no empathy. It was just like everyone else is crazy, 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.520 and I'm sane. I'm enlightened. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:04.840 You know. 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:06.400 I was drinking the kool aid. 0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:11.439 Sometimes identifying as nominogamous can come with this holier than 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:15.840 now energy that's not so appealing. I've encountered many men 0:18:16.080 --> 0:18:20.720 with CNM in their hinge bios, standing for consensual nominogamy, 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:23.800 and all of them want to preach for four hours 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:28.760 about how birds or squirrels or whatever are polyamorous. I'm like, yeah, dude, 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.439 they also eat dirt, So let's move on. I'm being harsh, 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:36.760 but this is a personal trigger of mine. Sorry, So 0:18:37.200 --> 0:18:40.879 exploring openness is going to involve navigating some of this 0:18:41.000 --> 0:18:45.000 type of personality. And then, of course, there is the 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:49.480 whole jealousy issue. Damon experienced his firsthand when he tried 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:53.400 to open his relationship with Melissa. Remember he had a threesome. 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.040 She fucked her Equinux trainer, but it didn't bring them 0:18:56.080 --> 0:18:59.600 closer together. In fact, it did the opposite. 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:03.320 Her having sex with another man was so devastating to me. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.879 As soon as she came home, I was fucked up 0:19:05.920 --> 0:19:08.480 in my mind. I was thinking about it. I was imagining. 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.960 There's jealousy, there's insecurity, there's anger, there's a feeling that 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.000 the ground you're on is now like shaky. There's so 0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.960 many feelings that come up when your partners with another person, 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:22.119 and I didn't know how to deal with them or 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.399 handle them. I mean, I owned this thing, and I 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.280 was supposed to be the guy that knew all about this, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:30.680 but I didn't. I'd never delved into non monogamous relationship, 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.040 so I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.760 So I just like thought, oh, wow, this looks easy, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.760 and it's not. But it's not like that at all. 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.160 Speaking of someone who has been in multiple open relationships, 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.560 I'm intimately familiar with jealousy, and it's a nauseating cocktail 0:19:46.640 --> 0:19:50.000 of suspicion and threat. I understand that jealousy is part 0:19:50.040 --> 0:19:53.080 of being human and a little bit can be considered healthy, 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:55.400 but it's also embarrassing. 0:19:55.960 --> 0:19:57.680 It can feel desperate. 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:02.320 Clingy, and unattractive, and frankly, it just feels basic. I'm like, wait, 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:05.640 I thought I was a progressive, free loving, a reference millennial. 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:10.159 Shouldn't I be above jealousy? Well, nonminogamy can see them 0:20:10.200 --> 0:20:14.840 appealing intellectually or politically. In practice, it's like, oh wait, 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:18.800 my feelings don't care about politics. 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:21.399 You know, you can step into it with this feeling 0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.159 like okay, I'll fuck her, she can fuck him. We 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.480 can do this. I feel good about this. This couple's 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.320 really cool. And then you know it's happening and she's 0:20:29.359 --> 0:20:31.560 moaning a little bit louder than she does with you, 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.520 or maybe she's having multiple orgasms and the wife hasn't 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.160 had an orgasm in ten years, you know, and it's like, oh, oh, man, 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.080 like why are they making such a great connection? What's 0:20:42.119 --> 0:20:45.879 going on here? So you open up that door. You 0:20:45.960 --> 0:20:47.159 never know what's going to happen. 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.640 But for some freaks, a little bit of jealousy can 0:20:50.720 --> 0:20:54.840 actually be a good thing. It's well known polylor that 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.320 a primary virtue of being open is that it prevents 0:20:57.320 --> 0:20:59.880 you from getting lazy or taking each other for granted. 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:02.800 So basically, if you're open, your husband's less likely to 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:06.520 get a beer gut. To that point, seeing your partner 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:09.600 with another person at a sex party can be motivating. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:14.960 For some couples, something else happens where it's like they 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:17.280 do that, and then they go back home and they 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:21.400 fuck their brains out because they're like, did he fuck 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.520 you better? You know, like everyone is on their game, 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:27.880 because man, this is scary territory. Now, you know, I'm 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:30.840 gonna fucking suck his cock like that young little girl 0:21:30.840 --> 0:21:32.800 at the club, Like you know, I'm gonna show him 0:21:32.800 --> 0:21:35.080 who can suck dick, and like all of a sudden, 0:21:35.119 --> 0:21:36.560 their sex life is on fire. 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.680 Last year, in twenty twenty two, the award winning journalist 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.600 Rachel Krantz wrote a book called Open, an uncensored memoir 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:48.800 of love, liberation, and nominogamy. In it, she chronicles her 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.320 first experience in a polyamorous relationship, and part of what 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:56.639 she talks about is jealousy's potential benefits. Rachel met her 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.480 boyfriend back in twenty fifteen when she was twenty seven. 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:02.959 He was significantly older than her and was literally a 0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:07.000 professor of desire, like he studied the psychology of romantic 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.680 desire and had been in multiple previous poli relationships. 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:14.160 Before we even kissed, he told me he was non 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:18.880 monogamous and really framed it as like, this is about morally, 0:22:19.040 --> 0:22:21.480 how I believe I want to be towards a partner. 0:22:21.720 --> 0:22:23.680 It's not so much about me being with other people. 0:22:23.720 --> 0:22:26.320 It's just I don't want to restrict people's freedom. 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:28.880 And then came another piece of information. 0:22:29.880 --> 0:22:32.800