WEBVTT - The Wolf Family Murder PT 1 0:00:03.680 --> 0:00:06.760 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson. I'm a journalist who's spent the 0:00:06.800 --> 0:00:09.559 last twenty five years writing about true crime. 0:00:09.800 --> 0:00:12.800 And I'm Paul Hols, a retired cold case investigator who's 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:16.400 worked some of America's most complicated cases and solve them. 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:19.799 Each week, I present Paul with one of history's most 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:21.720 compelling true crimes. 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:24.239 And I weigh in using modern forensic techniques to bring 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:26.040 new insights to old mysteries. 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:31.680 Together, using our individual expertise, we're examining historical true crime 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:34.360 cases through a twenty first century lens. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.800 Some are solved and some are cold, very cold. 0:00:38.240 --> 0:00:45.720 This is buried bones. 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:02.560 Hey, Kate, how's it going today? 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:04.640 It's going well, Paul, how's it going with you? 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.760 I'm doing pretty good. The weather's changing. 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:09.360 I know springtime? 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:09.839 Right? 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.320 Do you camp? And I asked this because haven't you 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:15.600 and I both had reservations a little bit about camping, 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:18.039 because of how many stories we've both been involved with 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:23.600 involving people being murdered at camp side. I know they're 0:01:23.640 --> 0:01:25.399 going to be camp enthusiast who tell me to stop 0:01:25.440 --> 0:01:27.640 saying stuff like that, But that's the facts. That's what 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:28.920 happens sometimes. 0:01:29.000 --> 0:01:32.800 Yeah, you know, I've consulted on a fair number of 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:35.840 cases that involve people who are out camping, you know, 0:01:36.040 --> 0:01:39.000 and of course a lot of bodies are recovered out 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.280 discovered by campers, you know, as they're out and about 0:01:42.280 --> 0:01:45.160 doing their theme because it's in remote areas. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:47.880 But you know, I wasn't a. 0:01:47.800 --> 0:01:51.360 Big fan of camping, and then as I got into 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:55.200 the off roading and watching some of these YouTube videos 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.880 of these guys that will go on like you know, 0:01:58.000 --> 0:02:00.880 week long trips and they're just out in the most 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:08.040 amazing places. They're isolated, gorgeous, you know, just nature and 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:11.120 sitting around a campfire. You know, each one of them 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:14.400 takes turns, you know, cooking up a meal and you know, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:17.639 having a drink here and there and swapping stories. 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:19.359 And it was just like, yeah, that's really cool. 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:23.960 So I spent, oh, I guess, the last year really 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:28.440 building up my jeep for overlanding as well as acquiring 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:31.519 camping equipment. And I got out twice last year, but 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:34.840 I was doing so much travel, I wasn't able to 0:02:34.880 --> 0:02:37.240 do a lot of it. But I'm hoping, you know, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:39.840 now that the weather's changing, I'm hoping to you know, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:42.839 find a good group out here in Colorado and get 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:45.200 out there and do some of this dispersed camping in 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:47.280 addition to the off roading aspects. 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:49.880 Well, not to be negative here, but are you going 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:52.079 to bring a weapon with you? Because I would absolutely 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.200 weapon after everything. 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.800 Let's just say that I'll be well protected. 0:02:58.360 --> 0:03:01.720 Okay, very good? And is Cora like camping? And does 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:02.800 your wife like camping? 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:03.680 No? 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:08.600 And no, this is this is just me myself and 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:10.400 I Okay, all right. 0:03:10.880 --> 0:03:12.680 I did not grow up camping. I mean I grew 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:14.960 up kind of on a farm. So I felt like 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:17.440 I was sort of camping just because we were out 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:19.600 in a rural area a lot, and we would stay 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:21.200 out very late, and so I was sort of what 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.560 do they call it now, like a sleep under you know, 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.720 like when your kid goes out until one in the 0:03:26.720 --> 0:03:28.440 morning and you go pick them up and they don't 0:03:28.440 --> 0:03:30.399 want to spend the night, but they want to stay 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.040 up really late with their friends. Yeah, so I would 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:34.320 sort of sleep under camp. We would just stay out 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:37.720 by the river pitch black as late as possible, but 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.520 we'd always sleep inside. So that's kind of my kind 0:03:40.560 --> 0:03:44.280 of camping. Okay, but I'm I'm definitely willing to you know, 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:46.200 explore it a little bit more. But I do have 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.200 to say I always feel nervous if I can't have 0:03:49.360 --> 0:03:52.840 a security system on an Airbnb or anywhere I am, 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:56.080 or a door person or something just you know, because 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:57.600 of the nature of the business that we're in. 0:03:57.920 --> 0:04:01.400 Yeah, you know, with kind of the modern gadgets that 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:05.200 are out there, you know, you can somewhat set up 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:09.040 a perimeter, you know, around your campsite using you know, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.840 motion detecting lights and alarms and stuff like that in 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:16.440 order to get at least you know, an alert that 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.000 something is happening out if you're in your in your 0:04:19.080 --> 0:04:23.200 tent or like of course, the off road rigs often 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.320 have you know, we have tools, we have recovery gear, 0:04:27.040 --> 0:04:29.480 you know, the cookwar stuff, and so there's a lot 0:04:29.480 --> 0:04:32.160 of expense that goes into these supplies and they can 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.880 be targets when you're out hiking or if I take 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:38.839 my mountain bike out there, and so having some level 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:43.000 of security is something that I most certainly will have, 0:04:43.120 --> 0:04:45.200 and so that that's something you may be unaware of, 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:46.000 you know. 0:04:46.360 --> 0:04:47.480 My biggest fear. 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.960 Is is the the big creatures, particularly if I'm going 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.640 to be in an area with like a grizzly you know, 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:58.719 because you hear about some some of these campers being attacked, 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.440 because you know, in a lot of it is just 0:05:00.520 --> 0:05:02.839 knowing what to do with your food and your food 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.640 waste and keeping it away from you know, where you 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:10.200 are sleeping, you know, where you know your vehicles are. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:14.359 There's strategies to try to minimize encountering that wildlife, but 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.000 every now and then, maybe some things there's just something 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:18.080 you can't avoid. 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:20.760 Yeah, I get it. I don't know if any amount 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:22.680 of security is going to talk me into sleeping in 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:28.360 a tent, even with the burliest of men in other 0:05:28.440 --> 0:05:31.800 tents around me, it still leaves me with a vulnerable feeling. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.840 But that's okay. You know, I'm also someone who has 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.960 a dead bolt on the cottage here in my own backyard. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:42.320 You should well, my stepfather said, you know, you don't 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:44.400 want to come home one day and find somebody living 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:46.680 in your cottage. And I said, why would they do that? 0:05:46.760 --> 0:05:49.080 And he said, because it's a house and it's unlocked. 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.080 And I thought, okay, yeah, a point. 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.080 Yeah, no, that is a very real possibility. 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:59.560 Okay, Well, we're talking a little bit about security today. 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.640 In our episode, we are going to be in nineteen twenties, 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:07.520 North Dakota. We're back to the farm. Love it, love it, 0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:09.799 love a good farm story. But you know what comes 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.440 with that we talk about that. What comes with that 0:06:11.640 --> 0:06:14.839 is there is sometimes a lack of security, with the 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.880 exception of the gazillion guns that are around probably, but 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.599 you know, you're isolated and they're vulnerable, and so you know, 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.799 we have a family that is under attack. So Paul, 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:29.279 just before we get into the story, you know, we 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:32.680 always like to give listeners and viewers a little bit 0:06:32.680 --> 0:06:36.279 of a warning. We are talking about the murders of 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.840 children here as well as parents. So I just want 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:43.800 everybody to be aware that there are some kids who 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:46.080 end up being the victims of murder in our story. 0:06:46.440 --> 0:06:50.640 Let's go ahead and set the scene. So nineteen twenty 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:53.760 North Dakota. So we are kind of at the beginning 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.880 of prohibition, but we're in sort of, you know, a 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.560 very religious area of the country. We're on a farm. 0:07:02.000 --> 0:07:05.240 So the farm is led by a man named Jacob Wolf. 0:07:05.720 --> 0:07:08.719 He is the patriarch. He's forty one years old. He's 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:12.559 married to a woman named Biata and she is thirty 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.080 five years old. So they have a bunch of kids. 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:17.760 They have six daughters. I don't know if this is 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.160 a situation where Jacob really wanted a son and they 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.400 just kept going. But they're close together. The oldest is 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:28.000 twelve and the youngest is eight months old. And there's 0:07:28.080 --> 0:07:32.320 a thirteen year old farm hand named Jacob and his 0:07:32.480 --> 0:07:36.280 last name is Hoper and he's related to missus Wolfe's 0:07:36.280 --> 0:07:40.440 side of the family. So this is April twenty fourth, 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.680 it's a Saturday, and this is a tiny community called 0:07:44.720 --> 0:07:48.520 Turtle Lake, which is about sixty miles north of Bismarck. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.240 I've never been to North Dakota. I've heard it's beautiful. 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:52.400 Have you been to North Dakota? 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.600 I have not actually never been. 0:07:56.080 --> 0:07:59.880 Okay, So we're in Turtle Lake and the scene set 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:02.360 here is that there is a couple named John and 0:08:02.440 --> 0:08:06.480 Jesse Kraft. They are driving south toward Turtle Lake. You know, 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:10.040 it's in the morning, Saturday morning, and on their way 0:08:10.400 --> 0:08:14.720 toward this area, they passed by the Wolf's family farm. 0:08:14.880 --> 0:08:17.600 So they're friends, their neighbors of these people. They think 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:21.480 there's something odd happening. This is historical context. This is 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.800 what's interesting, okay, And the reason they think something's wrong 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.920 is John says he had done the same route the 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:32.840 day before. It was a rainy day and a rainy night. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:37.880 So the day that he passed by, there was laundry 0:08:38.160 --> 0:08:40.800 hanging out on the lines that I presume missus Wolfe 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.000 had put out. Then it started raining sometime after John 0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:47.520 had passed, and he thought she was going to go 0:08:47.559 --> 0:08:50.320 and collect the laundry, as anybody would. Nobody wants dry 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:54.200 laundry out getting rained on. When he passes by the 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.640 family farm the next day with his wife, the laundry 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:01.719 is still hanging there, and it had been soaked all 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:05.040 day rain the day before, all night rain. So isn't 0:09:05.080 --> 0:09:08.280 that interesting? I mean, that was what was alarming to 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.079 him was he thought, there's no way this is right. 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.720 I don't know if that's a kin today that somebody 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:15.560 having their windows on their car rolled down or I 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:17.520 don't know what that would be, but that was a 0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:18.840 red flag for him. 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:21.800 Yeah, you know, that's interesting. I mean he's very observant, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.800 you know, So he's noticing it in one direction, and 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:28.959 then the next day he noticed it's still up and 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:32.400 he's putting two and two together. So obviously this is 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:36.360 the era that you know we're talking about is that. 0:09:36.800 --> 0:09:38.840 You know, for somebody like me, I wouldn't think. 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.280 About that, but they're living that that life, and they're 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:45.760 recognizing that's not right. It's almost like today, if you 0:09:45.800 --> 0:09:47.880 see a window screen off of a front window of 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.440 a house, you know most of us would go, that 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:51.199 doesn't look right. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.320 I think I probably told you this story before. I 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:58.960 interviewed a forensic psychologist who did a lot of interviewing 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.640 of a f suspects, victims and all of that, and 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:05.079 you know, I was asking her a story. I was 0:10:05.120 --> 0:10:08.560 talking to her about a tenfold story where you know, 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.120 there's a man who murders his family and he had 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:13.560 been in the eighteen hundreds and he had been just 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.520 spouting off really negative things about the Catholics. They're gonna 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:21.880 kill everybody, all this stuff, which sounded to her to be, 0:10:22.280 --> 0:10:26.760 you know, like schizophrenia or something, some sort of a mania. 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.360 So when I went to a historian with the Catholic 0:10:30.480 --> 0:10:33.800 Church and I described what this man was saying, he said, 0:10:33.840 --> 0:10:36.280 everybody said that about the Catholics in the eighteen hundreds. 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:40.240 That's not crazy, that's social context. That's exactly what happened. 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.839 So then when I talked to her again, the forensic psychologist. 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:45.640 She said, that's why you have to know that what's 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:48.800 crazy in one country. What you would think is, you know, 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.120 when they're saying stuff, you're going, well, that person has 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:52.680 to be insane, is not insane? 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:54.240 Yeah, you know, and I think that's one of the 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.440 things that I've learned because, you know, working the older cases, 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:03.479 part of developing an understanding of the cases is understanding 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.680 the area where the crime occurred at the time the 0:11:06.720 --> 0:11:10.400 crime occurred, you know, forty years prior than today. But 0:11:10.720 --> 0:11:12.880 you know, the types of cases that you're talking about, 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:17.320 we've had such dramatic changes in our society. You know, 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.920 that's early on. You do such a good job of 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:22.160 at least you know, when you say set the scene, 0:11:22.559 --> 0:11:24.880 it's not just okay, this is where we're at. Well, 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.120 this is what's going on in history, this is this 0:11:27.360 --> 0:11:30.160 you know world, And it helps me kind of start 0:11:30.280 --> 0:11:33.960 assessing as you start getting into details of the case. Okay, 0:11:34.360 --> 0:11:36.600 this is how they're thinking back in the day, just 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.679 like you did with the laundry on the clothesline. 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:43.000 Yeah, and you know, we have done stories about people 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:45.920 drowning in cisterns and wells we don't see a lot 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:48.400 of those these days, so you see that as a 0:11:48.480 --> 0:11:51.720 murder weapon much more common. We've done a lot of 0:11:51.800 --> 0:11:55.240 acts murder stories. Everybody had an axe because that's what 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:57.600 the wood was the fuel source for a lot of 0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:02.400 these communities. So it's interesting to see how crime sort 0:12:02.400 --> 0:12:06.600 of moves in sync with wherever we are. You know, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:09.320 we know that an axe is available in everybody's household 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:11.440 in the eighteen hundred, So if somebody wants to go 0:12:11.480 --> 0:12:13.640 and kill someone and wants to use a weapon there, 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:16.000 Sure there are kitchen knives, but you probably know where 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:17.920 to get an axe. So I don't know. I just 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:20.240 I always want to point out things like that, Like, okay, 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:25.520 so that's what made John very alarmed. Was this laundry 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:29.319 hanging outside that was getting soaked that no country woman 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:32.120 would have thought would be a good idea. So let 0:12:32.160 --> 0:12:34.600 me tell you a little bit about the wolves. Jacob 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:37.120 is a very successful farmer. Like I said, he's forty one, 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:41.120 well liked in the community. No red flags with Jacob. 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.200 He's known for taking immaculate care of his farm and 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.960 he uses sort of the latest machinery. He is someone 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:53.840 who seems to be a loving father and a loving husband. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.360 Sometimes we talk about these farmers who are jerks. They're 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:03.760 abusive there, you know, and that does not seem like Jacob. 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:05.760 There doesn't seem to be a lot of negative with 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:10.000 Jacob so far. But we'll see. John Craft, the neighbor, 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.360 pulls up to the wolf's farmhouse and looks around the 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.080 outside of the house. He hears pigs rooting around in 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:19.560 the barn, and he goes to check it out. And 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:21.960 when he gets to the barn, this is when this 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:30.079 story really starts to unravel. He sees three bodies, partially 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:34.800 uncovered by dirt and hay. The distribution of the bodies 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.920 is interesting. So there is Jacob the dad, and he 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:40.960 is dead. Two of his daughters, the nine year old 0:13:41.000 --> 0:13:43.680 who is Maria, and the seven year old Edna, are 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:47.840 with him. Of course, John is very, very alarmed. So 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.240 if I were John, I would have then hopped in 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:53.640 my car and took off. He does not do that, 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:56.080 and I guess Jesse stays in the car his wife. 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:01.160 He decides to despite I'm sure, feeling very He goes 0:14:01.200 --> 0:14:05.280 to the house and in the kitchen. When he walks in, 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:09.480 the table is set for a meal, but the chairs 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.720 are disturbed, and there's blood on the floor, and he 0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.800 walks over. There's a trap door that goes to the 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.400 cellar that is in the kitchen, and this was very common, right, 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:22.320 I mean you could kind of like bring things easily 0:14:22.360 --> 0:14:24.240 in and out of a trap door through the kitchen, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.680 could store all your produce and everything. I will also 0:14:28.480 --> 0:14:31.680 remind you that I have done many stories about people 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.960 being murdered and then shoved down a very similar trap 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:39.520 door into the basement area. So I'm sure he's aware 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:42.280 of there being some kind of a danger here. 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:43.120 Yeah. 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:46.760 Yeah, So there's blood on the floor in the kitchen, yep, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:50.800 chairs are disturbed, as if maybe there was a struggle 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:51.440 in the kitchen. 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:54.800 But no body's in the kitchen, no, okay. 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.760 He walks over to the trap door that goes to 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:01.000 the cellar and when he looks down, so it's open. 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:06.360 He looks down and there are five more bodies. He 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:11.160 does not seem to go down to the cellar just yet. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.600 He looks through the rest of the house. He goes 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.640 to a bedroom and there's a crib. And remember they 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:21.400 had an eight month old. She is there. Her name 0:15:21.440 --> 0:15:26.120 is Emma. She's alive, she is freezing. She is soaked. 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.040 I think they had the windows open, and of course 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.240 it's been this cold rain, April rain, so she is 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.480 soaked and she is soiled, and she is very weak, 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:39.480 but she's alive. Police will later say they believe that 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.840 she had been on her own for two days with 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:47.720 no food, no nothing. So we've got five bodies. They 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.640 are a family of eight plus a farm hand. So 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:55.240 now the Crafts are terrified. Now they leave, They're done 0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:58.840 exploring because I think they think everybody's accounted for. So 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:01.400 the only survivor is in eight month old and we 0:16:01.440 --> 0:16:05.600 don't know why. Jesse Kraft, the wife, takes Emma. John 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:09.240 takes them both to the house and he drives to 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.360 the town of Turtle Lake where there's a phone. Because 0:16:12.360 --> 0:16:15.040 it's nineteen twenty, especially kind of in this area, would 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.200 have been very surprising for anybody to have a phone 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:19.920 residentially unless they had a lot of money at this point. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:23.400 So he goes, he finds a phone, and he calls 0:16:23.400 --> 0:16:26.760 the sheriff's office in Washburn, North Dakota, which is about 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.960 twenty two miles away. And this is a good reminder 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:33.360 of the time period because there is, like I said, 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:37.160 almost no phones around, and then the closest law enforcement 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.160 is more than twenty miles away, so things are moving 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:43.600 in slow motion. These people are all dead. It probably 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.160 looked clear to John that they were all dead, and 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:49.360 they had been for a long time. But I mean, 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.280 lord knows how long it took from him discovering the 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.720 bodies for then law enforcement to come from Washburn to 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.160 be able to report to this. And that just seems like, 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.040 I mean, you know, nowadays, hopefully you have police responding 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.120 within minutes in some cases, and this. 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.760 Is very different now, you know, And I'm even thinking 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:13.359 within that sheriff's office. It's not like back in the 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:18.320 nineteen twenties they had a dispatch center. Yes, so you're 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:23.160 reliant upon probably an employee of the sheriff's office actually 0:17:23.240 --> 0:17:27.359 being in the office and answering the phone, and then 0:17:27.840 --> 0:17:32.400 they somehow have to communicate, you know, to the officers 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.560 the information, and now the officers have to respond. You know, 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:39.439 I don't know if the sheriff's office had you know, 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.639 beats spread across the county or not, or are they 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:46.000 all just centralized up there in Washburn and now they're 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:48.560 having to drive all the way from Washburn down to 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:49.879 the Turtle Lake area. 0:17:50.280 --> 0:17:52.320 I don't know. I mean, I think we do have 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.480 quite a few officers responding, so there must have been, 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.960 you know, other places, but last twenty two miles is 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:03.000 the closest that tells you how isolated Turtle Lake was. 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.280 So we have a sheriff and I'm gonna say his 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.600 name once because this is one of those names. It's Scandinavian, 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:14.480 so it's Ula Steath and Rude. So he is actually 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.399 with the state's attorney for the county and they have 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.720 been traveling together to Bismarck, you know, on a case. 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.719 So when the sheriff gets the message, the state's attorneys 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.119 goes with him and they go to Turtle Lake. And 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:31.200 when the sheriff gets to the farmhouse, we know what happens. Boy, 0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:33.159 I mean, I could say it's the media, but it's not. 0:18:33.200 --> 0:18:36.840 The neighbors are everywhere. They're swarming this place, so it's 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.760 contamination city, you could tell, all over the place, and 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.919 they're there to help. But John says, it's okay. The 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:48.840 bodies are exactly where they were when I found them. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:52.480 Nobody's touched the bodies, but people are trying to be helpful, 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.280 which doesn't surprise me. But you know therein was the 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.399 issue that we have is there's no coordinating off this 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.119 crime scene. I don't actually think that that ever does happen, 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:04.399 So you know already you have a little bit of 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:06.920 a danger of course, that things are going to get 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.439 ruined and not be able to use in court if 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:10.920 they can even track down who did this. 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:16.919 You know, my initial thoughts are because it's common to 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.560 have to deal with a level of crime scene contamination 0:19:21.000 --> 0:19:25.520 just because of you know, family friends discovering let's say 0:19:25.680 --> 0:19:29.879 the deceased in a residence, possibly moving the body or 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:36.280 checking bidles, first responders, officers, paramedics coming. You know, paramedics 0:19:36.320 --> 0:19:40.440 can make a suicide look like a homicide just because 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:44.000 of their life saving measures. So it's normal to have 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.639 to When I first would arrive at a crime scene, 0:19:46.760 --> 0:19:49.879 I'm asking, so what all has happened since the crime 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:55.120 scene was discovered, so I can take into account those activities. 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.000 But at a certain point, like in this case, where 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:03.320 you have multiple neighbors wandering around, you know, from my perspective, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:08.160 it's really going to be the trampling of critical evidence 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:12.880 that could be interpreted to help understand what happened. As 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.040 well as in this day and age, evidence that potentially 0:20:16.119 --> 0:20:18.560 could be used to solve the case that you know, 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:23.640 they've just completely obliterated, But it doesn't negate the possibility 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:26.639 of getting still good information, you know, from from the 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:27.280 crime scene. 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.480 And you're talking about two different crime scenes, I'm assuming 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.520 because we've got the kitchen the seller, you know, together, 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:38.200 and then we've got the barn. So somehow these three people, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.240 these two little girls and their dad were in the 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:42.320 barn and then the rest of the family is in 0:20:42.359 --> 0:20:47.160 the kitchen. So there's so much opportunity for condamnation. 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:50.640 Right, I wouldn't necessarily call it two different crime scenes, 0:20:51.080 --> 0:20:53.720 you know, because I would I would be establishing a 0:20:53.760 --> 0:20:57.080 crime scene perimeter that would encompass that entire you know, 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:03.440 at least residential aspects and the outlying grounds around where 0:21:03.240 --> 0:21:06.400 these two you know, the barn and the family house 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:11.399 is at. But yes, within that perimeter you have where 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:16.120 the bodies are, but we don't know what's transpired yet, 0:21:16.280 --> 0:21:20.840 you know, so you could have evidence anywhere within that perimeter, 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:26.959 so it really is one big crime scene. 0:21:27.280 --> 0:21:32.120 Well, the sheriff immediately starts interviewing neighbors, figuring out when 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:34.400 was the last time they saw the wolves. That's where 0:21:34.400 --> 0:21:37.680 they come up with the idea that Emma had been 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:40.920 by herself crying for two days. That was the last 0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:44.240 time two days earlier, when I'm presuming Missus Wolf put 0:21:44.320 --> 0:21:47.040 up that laundry. There was you know, the day when 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:48.919 it was raining, and then the next day when they 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:52.920 were discovered. So you know, she's alive and she's being 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:57.240 taken care of by Missus Kraft. But the sheriff and 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.879 the coroner put together a corner's jury, and we know 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.960 these are generally lay people who come in. Their job 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:07.359 is to try to establish cause of death. Right, Is 0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:09.560 that kind of the simplified way of explaining it. 0:22:10.280 --> 0:22:13.960 Yeah, you know, the coroner's jury or grand jury. This 0:22:14.040 --> 0:22:18.240